Sin m+ is actually pretty good
#assassination
low girder
sub does both in the beta currently lmao. we'll see what happens once they start tuning
celest drift
Let's wait for tuning
icy ember
ye its now called 'shiv' but it functions just like tb
celest drift
(obviously SBS and Akaari' legendary are gonna be nerf to the ground in the upcoming builds)
icy ember
all rogue specs get it but its special for sin
low girder
those things aren't all the reason sub is so good rn. it's a tuning thing, but in terms of aoe tools sin's lost a lot
icy ember
and they added slice and dice
drifting cosmos
I mean as in weapon master and stacking mast for dmg. I don't like garrote at all
balmy condor
That’s not why poison is back though
Shiv and Tb are basically identical
Poison is back because bleed relies on borrowed power
icy ember
oh and also they added in blindside allows you to sometimes ambush the target
low girder
we've got some poison related conduits for aoe as well
balmy condor
Yeah
It’s looking like instant damage dots are the play
Like reapplying dots through fok and stuff
Maintain envenom uptime
That whole shebang
drifting cosmos
Well instant dmg is always good
icy ember
well tbh that is the same as before, deadly causes instant damage to proc
icy ember
well i haven't played sin much, do they have access to instant poison??
balmy condor
Deadly
celest drift
just deadly
balmy condor
Instant is the fake version of deadly
icy ember
drifting cosmos
But isn't sin always a bit weaker at start of an expansion cos low secondary stats?
balmy condor
That’s bait as fuck
That’s one of those classic “the community says it so it must be true”
icy ember
ye it is, unless some XYZ legendary comes out or they release kingsbane unto the public
celest drift
we'r starving haste at start of xpac, as always
balmy condor
That doesn’t mean it’s weak
celest drift
no, but it's clunky AF atm
drifting cosmos
Lol
low girder
sin was quite good in EN too, and that was the very first tier
balmy condor
Sure but the whole community argument is “sin sucks because early in expac no haste lul”
low girder
it's not a scaling thing
celest drift
yeah hard agree on that
verbal mantle
balmy condor
Cause anyone who thinks that
Literally doesn’t have any understanding about stats or why things do damage
swift timber
things do damage because the person has more haste
balmy condor
“Sin only has 25 apm how could it possibly do damage!”
Outlaw is casting twice as many spells
Must be stronger
verbal mantle
fix WoW ?
balmy condor
Remove shiv LEGO
icy ember
!sl
prisma monolithBOT
Shadowlands release: 42 days 13 hours 20 minutes 7 seconds
low girder
what's wrong with tiny toxic blades lol
celest drift
a month for adjusting numbers is okay'ish
balmy condor
They took tb, made it worse, and then built power on top of it
icy ember
i hope so
drifting cosmos
One more button to press
celest drift
If they don't fix the sepsis vanish while solo content, it's gonna be sad.
normal olive
I don't care about solo content 
balmy condor
That’s not a fix they need to do tbh
Working as intended
You vanish at the end
Works fine
low girder
(assuming they fix the big tick at the end)
celest drift
would be better to have the choice to vanish or not, like blindside/ambush
celest drift
balmy condor
Just play sub in solo content
normal olive
Just play minecraft you say?
balmy condor
Why would you want to play sin in solo content
low girder
we all will be
low girder
restive patio
does assassination have the best sustain of 3 rogue specs? i cant seem to kill elites on my new sub rogue
normal olive
i need to show people my hidden op openers
balmy condor
Well if we’re talking shadowlands
Sub has better sustain
Cause they’re just in shadow dance 24/7 atm
But sin and sub are both fine usually for sustain
Usually sub is seen as burstier
But it’s kinda bait imo cause they dance so frequently
normal olive
Sustain = burst
balmy condor
That it sorta just evens out
normal olive
restive patio
yea i dont have gear good enough to burst that elite from invasions 😄
low girder
in general we require more gear to start doing that kind of thing
than some other classes
celest drift
balmy condor
True
balmy condor
Dps race yourself
balmy condor
You take 1 dh in raids for the debuff
And then forget they exist
They’re kinda really sad atm
drifting cosmos
Rip lok
vestal wren
dh is nice, it has a straight forward rotation
normal olive
It's fun to play yeah
steel ridge
Death to all DHs
heavy forum
Is toxic blade gone in sl?
steel ridge
normal olive
Atleast we still have SS
warm drift
True
dark crag
But no huge amounts of haste
normal olive
We get alacrity 
normal olive
for what? m+, raid, pvp?
ripe gulch
raid
normal olive
yep
ripe gulch
exsang
normal olive
All the exp you can get + honed mind 3
But not like exp will come back around before prepatch
ripe gulch
i have 9 expedient 3's
limber lion
Sim yourself. For some Racing Pulse sims better than Honed Mind
dim lake
Hii. I'm very new to Rogue but I seem to be doing good so far. Could someone briefly point out the strengths of Rogue in M+ for me? So I can understand it better.
I know their shroud and amount of CC are very useful, but what else is expected of me?
vast forum
if you're playing assa, then shroud and damage are your only strong sides, as well as the garrote silence
vague rock
you are expected to tricks of trade the tank on every pull otherwise someone will die because tanks can't actually maintain aggro themselves 🙃
vast forum
cheesing stuff with sap/vanish/blind can also help
but as assa, vanish is a very important dps cd
dim lake
I'm not really applying vanish on my rotation
vague rock
you are also expected to solo important mobs on ur own using kick/kidney/blind/cheapshot, distract patrols that may put ur group in danger, start rp events like in freehold, use cloak to soak spells etc
dim lake
Hmmm that's insightful, tyvm
vague rock
but yeah make sure you have a tricks macro to tank otherwise someone will die
verbal mantle
As a personal preference, Iron Wire talent is also very useful to extend the duration of your garrote's silence
dim lake
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the vanish+garrote combo. I guess it doesn't make sense to me yet because I don't have suffocation?
vague rock
you can basically vanish to get out 3 extra garrotes, with ss these do a lot of dam
you can do it like opening from stealth and then vanish to get 6 garrotes at once or just use it after your first 3 are about to fall off to extend them
dim lake
But why would I do it 6 times? Sorry, like I said I'm really new to Rogue so I like asking obvious questions
vague rock
if you want to spread it on 6 mobs i mean
vague rock
add a few ruptures, crimson tempest and blood of the enemy and you are blasting
dim lake
I think I like the poison bomb better. Is it too bad?
vague rock
nah it's good, i just run CT for max padding
if you're doing a lot of big aoe pulls ct does work
dim lake
Ohhh I see!
meager arch
does anyone know if the tiny toxic blades (shiv spreads poisons) legendary works with sepsis (night fae ability)?
vast forum
i don't think it works at all on beta yet
though i haven't tested it in the most recent build
meager arch
oh nice lol
meager arch
I was looking at it and thought that sounded cool guess I'll have to just wait to try it though
vast forum
maybe with slaughter because slaughter poison is actually a weapon poison
dapper laurel
Why hello there
How's Assassination's looking right now for SL ? Thinking about changing class for SL
Asking here before re-reading "Rogue state in Shadowlands" on Wowhead
celest drift
Same as BfA, solid. Sub is ahead right know, we'll have to wait for tuning
celest drift
outlaw will still outperform sub/sin in MM+ i guess
but yeah, you can definitly raid with sin
dapper laurel
It's mainly for raiding purpose
celest drift
so far yes, necrolords is OP. Expect a nerf soon tho
Again, tuning is just beginning (specially for us)
so wait&see!
dapper laurel
Alright thanks a lot man
wraith badge
i can't wait till night fae is better then necro. i wanna see some sweet combos with sepsis(thinking it would be like running breath major in a sense)
kind bone
Yo guys, I need some help with my simulation, i want to replace all enchant/gems but there so much iterations for a free account,
Can someone with premium help me?
wraith badge
pm me the simc info
normal olive
gem sims
wraith badge
just when i think i had a bunch to sim. even with premium Keynann's sim im running for him/her is gonna take like 5 minutes
normal olive
that's gems for you
crimson palm
Yo guys, I need some help with my simulation, i want to replace all enchant/gems but there so much iterations for a free account,
Can someone with premium help me?
@kind bone buy premium then
delicate bone
premium is a good investment tbh, pretty cheap, and saves so much time with how much you should be simming normally
normal olive
300k is fine
i just do the most scuffed sims and combine shit in my head / spreadsheet what combination reaches what
kind bone
@crimson palm Yep, on SL gonna buy it
hidden bay
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wraith badge
finished @kind bone's 16 mil gem sim.. only took 10mins but yea buying a premium is best way
honest vessel
yup
delicate bone
wont have to worry about htat in SL ;D
balmy condor
Nah even with like 4 sockets it takes forever
If you understand stat weights you can use that
But usually I try to keep people away from stat weights cause it quickly gets out of hand
delicate bone
it doesnt take too long tbh, you should know what type of gems you should be deciding between, no need ot ever use them all lol
i dont recommend using stat weights either
vague rock
its probs better to just sim a full set of crit gems, haste gems, vers gems, mastery gems and compare them like that
otherwise you're going to have a lot of pointless combinations taking up sim time
balmy condor
Well then you’re not taking combinations into account
Which is the whole point
But at least right now it looks like just haste
vague rock
yeah you can find some combination where having 1 mastery gem, and 3 crit gems is a 12 dps gain
not really worth imo
its within error margins as well
balmy condor
If it’s not worth then you shouldn’t sin it anyway
You just use stat weights and eyeball it from there
When I’m simming gems for people atm, I’m finding like 200-400 dps usually
If that’s not meaningful to you, then eyeballing it is 100% fine
You either try to be optimal with it, or you don’t
vague rock
ok boomer
mental trout
What % of the wow player base do you think actually cares about numbers, pushing hard content, theory crafting etc compared to just people who like the lore, have fun if the class feels fun etc
balmy condor
Very very small %
I think there’s a lot of people who care about numbers even if they aren’t pushing content
You’ll see a lot of heroic raiders trying to optimize and sim their gear and look at logs
But even then, knowing how to sim, and where to look for logs
Is still a very small %
grave mist
^^^ people keep saying 1% but at the end of the day most ppl raiding with guilds at a normal/herioc level still wanna be optimal
balmy condor
It’s human nature to want to do the best you can
Even if it’s just taking out the trash
If you have errands to run, you’ll choose the quickest path
vague rock
have you raided in many heroic guilds?
balmy condor
Yes
vague rock
i would not describe them as mostly wanting to be optimal lol
balmy condor
Contrary to popular belief, I’m actually not a very good rogue myself
icy ember
no world first only 
vague rock
they don't even prepot most of the time, let alone run sims and research logs
i raided in a lot of hc and casual guilds
delicate bone
yea i couldnt deal with a heroic guild like that
i would get so annoyed at people just not trying to be optimal lol
balmy condor
So you’re living proof that there’s people in heroic guilds wanting to be optimal
vague rock
where is this myth of hc/normal raiders striving to be their best selves??? they just wanna play the game
balmy condor
Of course not everyone will want to do that
delicate bone
even if you dont want to push past heroic, atleast try to be better always
grave mist
i have an alt in a IRL friends guild like they dont go through extra work but they still look up guides on how to stat/whats gear they want to drop/rotation
balmy condor
But there are some who want to be the best version of themselves
Does that mean your entire guild is running top gears every time a piece drops
No of course not
And that’s okay
vague rock
it's more like they actually prefer that environment where pushing yourself isn't really expected as much i think
balmy condor
And that’s fine
It’s a game
At the end of the day we all play to have fun
And if that pressure isn’t fun for them
mental trout
Yea I joined bfa late. We cleared H nya in like a week with a carry over guild from classic. I would say maybe 1/3 of the people prepot/ looked into their class/ went the extra mile.
balmy condor
Then who’s to tell them that they’re playing wrong
mental trout
They were all having fun, but they didn’t care about going harder into mythic etc. not saying they were playing wrong, just wonder if it’s beating a dead horse. As in the hardcore players have such a small voice over the whole of the player base
balmy condor
The hardcore are just more involved in the community
If you found this discord, and you’re lurking in spec channels, you’re already miles more elitist than the average player
Cause you’ll never hear about them
grave mist
^^^^
balmy condor
They’re the people that log in after a days work, do their pet battle dailies, run ICC, and maybe do a dungeon with some friends
mental trout
That’s true, it’s Tangible between one another to another in the community. Though I think blizzard looks at different numbers then just who is speaking for the community
vague rock
lurking in class discords is how i procrastinate 
gonna start arguing about iris vs bote again soon
balmy condor
Guy would wring your neck like a towel 
mental trout
I am a casual gamer in the sense of the time I have to play, but when I play it’s in a hardcore manner with any game I play. Mostly from just being a teen and being in top guilds etc that drive never left but the time has.
balmy condor
Yeah, you have the desire to be better
honest vessel
f
balmy condor
A lot of people just don’t have that cause “it’s just a game”
Both people are having fun though
vague rock
it's all about finding the right crowd pretty much
grave mist
IDK i see people always complain about its only 1% but in reality theres probably 10-15% ATLEAST of the community who at some point in a current expansion looked up guides/talent tree/what stats are useful...and if they didn't sure as hell they asked someone about it
vague rock
if you are tryharding you will try to play with others that are
grave mist
agree with that too...surround ya self with like minded people
hushed torrent
I see afew high logs iwth appendage build if you dont hav eexp build, what stat prio is it for tent build?
balmy condor
Crit vers usually if you’re full into the tentacle cheese
hushed torrent
Cheers dude
balmy condor
normal olive
Whispyr not being a good rogue 
balmy condor
It’s true
lean marten
if he was good he'd be playing the game not on DC GOTTEM
balmy condor
It’s true
When I stream keys it’s not uncommon for me to alt tab between pulls and answer DM’s lmao
hushed torrent
just standard rings for tent build or bit band etc? @balmy condor
surreal rivet
How’s assa in SL? Haven’t looked much
strange python
is vulpera a decent choice for rogue in general?
strange python
let me elaborate a bit. i picked undead cause extra fear break, although situational, comes in clutch. I'm not sure what the vulpera racial does, but does it compliment rogue gameplay at all?
royal lantern
racials dont matter
balmy condor
no
royal lantern
thats the point
surreal solar
racials don't matter until you're in that group running the top .05%
play the race you find neat
strange python
i apparently poked on a touchy subject, my appologies
balmy condor
its not touchy at all
royal lantern
nah its just
racial questions are stupid imo cus its so ridicolous small, you will have more impact on your gameplay by beeing lucky with doing 2-3more crits trought out the fight
strange python
ok ,let me take the class out of the equation. what does the vulpera racial do? the character creation screen is vague
royal lantern
wich one of the 3?
surreal solar
you get a bottle
balmy condor
royal lantern
you take 5%of your max hp less dmg on the first hit, aka you take slightly less dmg overall(ramps up too quite a bit trought out a dungeon run tbh)
custom hearthstone
and active is a vial you throw,does dmg too enemys or healing on yourself/allys
thats it
strange python
the corrosive vial seems like it'd make sensel with sin rogue
balmy condor
if that's the fantasy you want to play
honest vessel
the dmg reduction can be nutty over many hits
balmy condor
then go for it
honest vessel
but yeah it doesnt really matter
balmy condor
the damage from the vial isn't noticable
strange python
i mean does the nature damage from that skill not scale is stats sin rogues stack?
ok
balmy condor
damage, from racials, do not matter
royal lantern
just because something does bleed/poison dmg, it doesnt get increased by the sin mastery
surreal solar
it is however affected by crit
royal lantern
ye they changed that cus we had problems with that in legion
unholy abused some trinkets cus they got a dmg boost by its mastery, they removed that cus it littearly broke it
strange python
things have definitely changed since the era of the game i'm used to. kinda sucks but i understand, things are definitely more balanced than i remember
royal lantern
tbh,going vulpera has 1 big problem
its pretty hard too play another race without your camp lel
that shit is 10/10 QoL
honest vessel
lets not forget
balmy condor
just like I can't imagine dungeons without belf
honest vessel
EXTRA BAG SLOTS
balmy condor
honest vessel
literally broken
surreal solar
8 extra bag slots
normal olive
Vulpera
surreal solar
soooo good
normal olive
royal lantern
bruh weeb, 8.3 for me was like
honest vessel
but undead does a flip when it envenoms
royal lantern
camp in uldum
honest vessel
so i think im going undead next xpac lol
royal lantern
engi portal for pandaria
hs back too dazar
never had too take portals, just use 1 of your custome ports
normal olive
Whispyr everytime i read vulpera i hear that god damn scream
normal olive
:c
normal olive
balmy condor
I put it in ot for you XD
royal lantern
bruh
normal olive
oh no xD
balmy condor
the screech is a combat sound
surreal solar
awww
balmy condor
that's a /flirt
royal lantern
@normal olive just4your information
normal olive
royal lantern
you know that we have a race in the game since cata where a /flirt is "are you into furrys?" ?
just saying
normal olive
Since i don't use emote nope didn't know that 
loud light
neat topaz
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Its very hard to make statements about stat trends in the current patch.
Please use a simulation to generate results for your personal gear situation.
balmy condor
gottem
neat topaz
apologies
nocturne torrent
So I’m struggling, I love sin and it’s always been my favorite spec thematically but I feel like I’m Gonna have to play sub to be competitive in raid in SL 😭 anyone planning to still play Sin?
honest vessel
and you can always play the inferior spec, thats fine depending on what you want, but its part of playing a 3 dps class, sometimes your favorite wont be the best
nocturne torrent
True, and i get that ive played rogue for ages but it seems like Sub is just So much better at everything atm
honest vessel
well right now on beta it's giga busted
and better get nerfed
so make sure you add your grains of salt
balmy condor
we don't have tuning yet
nocturne torrent
Yeah, I’ve been hopping we get something back where envenom refreshes SnD or SnD gives us more energy regen to increase our APM
balmy condor
lmao
no
that's definitely not happening anymore
we got 20% extra attack speed in sin
for snd
that our buff :)
nocturne torrent
One can dream lol. I’ve also seen mixed things on best overall cov for sin. Venth or Maldrax have they fixed venth poison scaling properly with Mastery yet?
balmy condor
its alwasys scaled properly afaik
bone spike is just a little strong atm
and we don't know if the fracture is intended but not on the tooltip
or not intended but still happening
nocturne torrent
Hmmm I thought i read somewhere or heard that it had wonky scaling atm. Yeah bonespike is lookin good
balmy condor
problem with slaughter is that the conduit makes the ability
the ability itself is basically just red ambush and red deadly poison
nocturne torrent
Right, its also shadow damage as well
balmy condor
yeah but that doesn't mean anything
molten copper
whats the opener when youre running double dose and heart? instead of garrote build
molten copper
where is that again?
prisma monolithBOT
molten copper
is ms better for double dose build or is sub better?
Master Assassin
and subterfuge
balmy condor
depends on your gear
low girder
just gear, generally
molten copper
ok
low girder
but yeah sim
balmy condor
sim is the only answer
molten copper
i gotcha appreciate it
fleet whale
prepatch sims when?
balmy condor
I can do prepatch sims technically
fleet whale
I guess it really doesn't matter but i want to see how blindside would be in pre-patch
but 30+ percent haste plus lucid minor EP might still be the choice
balmy condor
@fleet whale CLF or Bote major your fancy
marble tartan
Prepatch assa will feel weird man
balmy condor
these ilvls are not scaling very well
don't answer that, I know why
its just annoying
marble tartan
Wtf, congrats you've earned yourself a mythic castle nathria trinket kekw
balmy condor
importing current items from +15 translates it into shadowlands +15 items
balmy condor
kings rest poggers dude
also makes goraks import at 239
so if you haven't gotten a goraks yet
make sure you roll one kekw
mossy crown
Does anyone know of a good WA which tracks empowered garrote?
mossy crown
Is it on wago?
balmy condor
mossy crown
Awesome, I’ll check it tonight. Thank you.
strange python
does nothing personal stack ?
low girder
the dmg yes, the energy no
strange python
tyvm!
balmy condor
that's also true for most things btw
low girder
^
balmy condor
like twist the knife, damage but not envenom time
shrouded suffocation, damage but not combo points
etc etc
low girder
Proc corruptions too
strange python
How's assa looking for SL?
balmy condor
good in raids, sketchy in m+
summer marten
and worse gameplay due to snd addition
summer marten
they could have added some passive that benefits from attack speed or something(like giving short energy regen boost every x attacks or something), to make it help gameplay while up like it does for other specs, but nooo... slap 20% more attack speed on it and make it even more mandatory while making gameplay worse... silly and lazy
balmy condor
that's technically what you get when you use dashing
idk, I personally think the snd hate is mega overblown
warm drift
I agree
balmy condor
its like 45 seconds easily
summer marten
i quit playing ret due to inquisition... might be done with rogue due to it too... my nr1 hate are maintenance buffs that trade fun for damage
balmy condor
12 casts of snd on a 6 minute fight gonna ruin your immersion?
its not the most interesting design
but I'm not throwing my arms up like sin is now dead because snd doesn't give us energy naturally
screaming bout end times
its a button to press
and tbh, I'm happy bout that
and that's all I want
summer marten
well, its cleary not dead, it might be very strong, just for me personally its now... tainted
balmy condor
does it bother you on outlaw and sub
summer marten
give me buffs/debuffs that i have to keep up that help with gameplay and deal 0 damage and im happy... but buffs that just add damage are... terrible
balmy condor
or are the random 7 energy procs and an rng combo point enough
summer marten
no, obviously not, it helps their gameplay
balmy condor
cause imo
those passives
are already noticable
and snd doesn't really make them that much more noticable
it procs more
but it doesn't do anything to gameplay
I'm not making a conscious decision because I have slice up now
I'm not counting my energy
the fact that snd is big damage on sin is enough draw for me
but idk
summer marten
yea, kinda opposite of me 😛
balmy condor
I'm the fucking weirdo about it in here
cause everyone doom and glooms snd
and I'm just here going "yeah cool snd is back, that's fine"
and everyone stares at me like im an alien lmao
low girder
It's not great and seems kinda halfhearted in giving something to all 3 specs, but whatever
Not at all make or break
balmy condor
I actually enjoy snd being back, more than it not being back
low girder
I'm indifferent lol
balmy condor
I enjoyed snd in wod as well
sullen pagoda
It's just a no effort random add to the class that doesn't improve gameplay
balmy condor
and I think that's okay tbh
summer marten
Yea, thats why i dislike it... especially since couple of expansions ago they went with removing such maintenance buffs/debuffs that dont also help gameplay from all classes... only to add it back now
sullen pagoda
It's not okay when we were expecting something more cuz how bad bfa was
balmy condor
that's your problem though tbh
low girder
Idk I didn't expect much lol
balmy condor
same
sullen pagoda
No it's games problem and it's bleeding subs for long time now
sullen pagoda
Yes obviously
sullen pagoda
Cuz when u remove essences and azerite traits the spec feels empty af
Uldir fex
Sin was hot garbo gameplay
balmy condor
I don't think it feels that empty tbh
balmy condor
slow maintenance and a random ability like tb or kb
has always been sins style
its never been flashy or mechanically intense
legion sin rogue was more empty in my opinion
because to me, kingsbane and toxic blade feel the same
low girder
They were after 7.2 lol
sullen pagoda
Toxic blade was last patch only
balmy condor
sure
sullen pagoda
Before that agonizing poison was even more garbage ngl
balmy condor
but I think essences and traits are better than what we got in legion
sullen pagoda
Ap was the worst thing to ever happen to sin
low girder
Because sub was bonkers
sullen pagoda
I mean sin was played only by insecure rogues to go sub
balmy condor
idk, like I said, im the weirdo that actually likes snd
I definitely see your point though
normal olive
i like snd too
sullen pagoda
Wait who said that kapp
balmy condor
and I agree that its a little boring
low girder
Lol
I played all 3 in antorus for a while
My favourite time
Kingaroth was mega fun as sub
coarse tusk
Ughh snd
fallow otter
Good way to suicide you mean lol
lavish quarry
how is the viability of assassination on shadowlands? for raiding and mythic+
balmy condor
Raid fine, m+ sketch
lavish quarry
as usual 😄
lavish quarry
although this is not the correct channel, how seems sub doing?
lavish quarry
thanks a lot for the info Weeb
balmy condor
I should really change back to whispyr
normal olive
balmy condor
Before this weeb thing takes off
normal olive
xD
balmy condor
drifting cosmos
When are you not here lol everytime I check discord you here whis
lavish quarry
😄
verbal mantle
exactly, let Whispyr rest a bit 
warm fulcrum
This is Whispyr "resting" and looking at sin channel:
balmy condor
warm fulcrum
verbal mantle
low girder
verbal mantle
this mans right
normal olive
low girder
radiant sorrel
How does celerity work cross spec? I'm guessing you go to craft it in outlaw spec then change back to assassination and it still works?
normal olive
left is 1
middle is 2
right is 3
radiant sorrel
kk
verbal mantle
Navi what is this ?
normal olive
verbal mantle
delicate bone
theyre still giving access, people are doing like 50 key giveaways almost daily it seems
verbal mantle
alright nice
normal olive
Why not just give people beta instead of doing giveaways
normal olive
i pugged 9/12 i can't be bothered anymore
delicate bone
yea that sounds awful lol
normal olive
Did some ilgy and cara progress but meh
delicate bone
so you did raden in a pug?
normal olive
i did everything in a pug
verbal mantle
Ilgy progress
NEVER again, we had 6 fucking melees
delicate bone
yea thats nuts lmfao
delicate bone
i mean, if you can pug 2/9 mythic, i dont see you having an issue finding one
9/12
im tired
normal olive
Yeah starting to look for one right now
shrewd night
Just start vanish evasion and youll be in a top guild in no time
normal olive
All guilds are scared of my openers
they think they'll get banned for playing with a god like me
deft cape
Hey guys, ive been trying to get my rotations and openers right, but im struggling to fit in the essence, im currently using focusing iris as i dont have blood of the enemy, but i dont know when to use them
delicate bone
whenever you want to pool energy and get the most value of the time channeling
never use it when youre capped on energy as youre justwasting time
late birch
You guys rate its better going higher +5 ilvl main hand with a bit worse stats over good stat lower ilvl main hand?
deft cape
would you say its better to beam right after putting a rupture on the main target but before vendeta toxic window
shrewd night
@late birch You could like.. Sim it.
delicate bone
@deft cape not sure tbh, maybe someone can give you better info than me, i dont use iris so im not sure
fallow otter
unless your gear is very behind i dont even think it will be close, higher ilvl mainhand all day
but sim to be sure
late birch
❤️
amber quail
Is there anyone who play/test sin in beta?
fallow otter
whats the question
iron valve
royal lantern
99%of all questions people ask ARE answered in the pins
or they are question like " WhAt RaCe ShOuLd I PlAy????"
placid dawn
what transmog is best for dps guys?
iron valve
depends on race
viral aurora
How come crimson is bad om beta? Pins say PB or hidden blades. Is that even if you use zoldyck?
Talking m+ now ofc
shrewd night
Poisons > bleeds on beta
late birch
@royal lantern just joined and didnt know about notes, helped me so much just now lol
royal lantern
its even in the description^^
late birch
yeha so much stuff in this discord im bound to miss a thing or two
vague rock
is slaughter poison much stronger than normal deadly poison? so much so that master poisoner and poison conduit is actually good or?
royal lantern
slaughter poison does the same dmg
slaughter itself for assassination is "you cast ambush and your deadly poison is shadow dmg now"
vague rock
damn. I was hoping there would be a sick poison build for m+ with all the poison amp passives
poison lego, poison conduit and master poisoner
royal lantern
assassination is gonna be poison focused in SL tbh
vague rock
with slice and dice giving more instant poison procs (?)
royal lantern
sadly yes
fk that skill, but it does
right now on beta assassination is pretty much "Passive dmg" focused
you keep your dots/shit&ability up, and that all does the dmg for you
vague rock
melee top damage done 🙃
late birch
how good is Assa compared to Sub atm on beta?
royal lantern
sub is overtuned and has a legendary that increases its dmg by 21366123616%
soooooooo
vague rock
it's not even close to sub
no shrouded/echoing so m+ feels bad, pressing shiv feels weird, you have 0 energy all the time
you rupture and then it's like... maybe i can do 2 envenoms before i have to rupture again 
royal lantern
ill stop when that ability is less 100%dogshit
loud silo
is pre patch today??
delicate bone
nopes
pliant salmon
"Skip prepatch, go directly to Shadowlands"
void pecan
With the state of beta, please no.
pliant salmon
delicate bone
theyll likely give 2 week notice for end of season pvp
lean marten
void pecan
That is the pattern
gray warren
I miss Kingsbane
deft cape
Need advice: for an opener, is it better to wait till refresh period to vendeta vanshish garrotte toxic blade or should i just open with it?
prisma monolithBOT
radiant sorrel
Hows assassination performing on beta compared to the other specs?
radiant sorrel
really? damn that's dissapointing
normal olive
it's looking fine don't worry
icy ember
well HISTORICALLY, sin has always been top of the line when it comes to raiding
dark crag
Absolutely not
normal olive
yep
dark crag
Sin was the "new" rogue beginner spec pre legion
And even for legion it wasn't top until outlaw was gutted. Then came tos sub
And without zul and lethargic blizz we can only speculate what would have happened
icy ember
well i only started playing at the end of legion, so that makes sense
and then sub got slammed by bliz
royal lantern
@dark crag dont you love how much people have a weird perception, that because assassination was the "too-go"spec for 1 expac, they think it was/is always the best lol
delicate bone
lul
dark crag
If we would call a spec the raiding spec, it would be combat
lean marten
LOL
void pecan
Combat.. 
vital haven
sup @void pecanf
vital haven
LOL
normal olive
Wait is this zelda?
normal olive
void pecan
Oh mod whispyr is here.
normal olive
The ancient one has awoken
grizzled jay
Pelagos is the Way.
minor rover
Which one of the pinned speccs should one pick if you return after a long time away from retail? I have like 0 corruptions or essences ^^
strange python
Which spec will be the best for sl? Will it be subtly?
balmy condor
Looks like it atm
void pecan
something something tuning and numbers before launch
balmy condor
Sin looks okay in raids tho
Yeah
That too
We have no tuning atm
For all we know, sub could get nerfed into the ground and sin buffed
vital haven
why do i get the feeling @balmy condor would want that 
balmy condor
No reason 
grizzled jay
Sin always better for prog, don't fret 🙂
balmy condor
That’s a pretty broad generalization
fleet whale
That really wasn't the case in ToS
minus fallen avatar, a majority of rogues played sub for ToS progress
balmy condor
There’s also been a lot of bosses where sub was poppin
So people played it even when it zul was slightly weaker
surreal solar
the guild i ran with either had bad subs or i was just better than they were during tos
icy ember
@grizzled jay careful bruh people will start believing you don't know anything about the game, and haven't existed before now
hard 
fleet whale
Well historically speaking, combat was the pve rogue spec
icy ember
there weren't any specs back then, you were just a rogue LOL
fleet whale
TBC it was combat swords
icy ember
same
fleet whale
idk combat dagger rogues were rare in tbc, vast majority of them played with swords
surreal solar
maces if they pvp'd
grizzled jay
maces was like 1 season i think
topaz axle
combat daggers was only good in classic
TBC swords were so much stronger than daggers
icy ember
idk i used to play a warrior way back then 
grizzled jay
i was a hunter in tbc
icy ember
ye, i suppose it is destiny that i avoided the worst xpacs in history, wod/mop, then returned to play fire mage during legion, and eventually rogue at the end of it 
grizzled jay
Compared to Theotar, I am liking Nadjia a lot more
shrewd roost
Is there a SL discussion anywhere?
balmy condor
in each channel
as well as #wow-general
#tc-research has some conversations but its usually more big brain
shrewd roost
how are rogues looking btw?
shrewd roost
Havent really played a rogue in BFA just thinking of swapping over tbh
balmy condor
there weren't a ton of changes from legion to bfa
and there also aren't a ton from bfa to shadowlands
shrewd roost
been playing a lot of DH lately
balmy condor
there's a couple talent and spell changes, especially in sub and outlaw land
shrewd roost
but i see there are tons of nerfs and changes so thinking based on what I am seeing rogues are at a good spot
delicate bone
This man saw the video
delicate bone
“SHADOWLANDS SUBTLETY BUSTED!! INSANE DAMAGE!”
Generally speaking though, atleast one spec of rogue will be pretty viable and meta for most content
balmy condor
outlaw will be meta m+ for sure
delicate bone
Right now, as whisp said, we’re waiting on tuning
icy ember
i hope so
delicate bone
Lolol I really pray my guild doesnt try to get me to play ranged lmfao
fleet whale
just go against your guilds will and top the meters anyway
that's the big d*ck dps move
low girder
lol
fleet whale
people have won smash ultimate tournaments
low girder
or rearrange your brain so you find all the things fun and play the "good" rogue spec
fleet whale
playing as little mac
fleet whale
plus a lot of players who go to the fotm
usually don't even play the spec to it's potential
fleet whale
point is he's universally ranked as the worst character in the game
but even then skilled players can get results with him
just like how a sub rogue now can kill M N'zoth
delicate bone
Oh I def wouldn’t switch to ranged, I just don’t enjoy it
wary ice
on ilgy; do yall hold cloak to stand in laser when its on you?
we've been 3 healing so im not sure if its worth using it as an extra dispel
rancid spade
still no beta
bleak spoke
Same
@wary ice if you’re dispel precloak the mc cast or the circles cast
It’ll just eat it
drifting cloud
precloaking mc doesnt work 😦
bleak spoke
Ah I figured it would cuz a mage friend said something about preblocking it
We still do not dispel
After all this time
drifting cloud
I have a feeling bubble, block work but cloak doesnt
bleak spoke
With our fucking 9 melee
drifting cloud
I mean im like 95% it happened to me but cba finding the log
bleak spoke
Just had the most disgusting end to our raid night
drifting cloud
9 melee no dispell illgyn????????
bleak spoke
Idk why we do the hole every fucking week
Yeah
Basically me and like 3 of the melee dps scramble around the room trying to find uptime
We always kill it in a pull or two if no one trolls though I guess
So we’ve gotten used to it
drifting cloud
yeah but dispell is so easy
drifting cloud
well the only difference is you prolly want 4 heals on dispel
not needed just safer
bleak spoke
Honestly we’d probably be fine without a problem our healers are quite decent
drifting cloud
or well maybe that was 4months ago ..
bleak spoke
It’s just the whole why fix it if it ain’t broke thing
And it’s been like 4 or 5 months of ain’t broke
drifting cloud
thats the problem you should have jsut gone dispell right after reclears
bleak spoke
Yeh we tried for like 2 pulls then gave up for reasons
drifting cloud
I think after prog we had maybe like 2-3 wipes on the next 3 kills with dispell
bleak spoke
Which is annoying cuz like
We got through many organs
Like the stuff we wiped to trying dispel would have killed us regardless
Like ppl suiciding in puddles or getting lasered
Iirc
Tbh the real strat is to just never go hole
drifting cloud
puddles its always the same shit, people getting stunned in mc dieing when they get out
bleak spoke
Hole is so garbage
People have enough drest trinkets to kit out three arena teams each
And enough ilgynoth azerite to scrap and buy a specific
Idk why we bother
Like I’ve been loot council for most of this tier and people haven’t requested drops for like 3 months
drifting cloud
yeah tell me about it my guild does the same
doing speed kills for no apparent reason, if only we did sales
just let us be for these last 2-3 weeks
bleak spoke
We’re doing sales but it’s always the most scuffed sales like
Why do people want 11/12
With funnels
At this point in the patch
Where are we finding these people
bleak spoke
Dude we have heroic sales every Wednesday with like gigabillion buyers
I just don’t even show up
I have enough drain bramage already
drifting cloud
well I have some gold saved up, ngl this tier has been nice for me
does kinda suck I couldnt boost as a rogue since like May or whatever
drifting cloud
hc last boss spamm rogue is garbage in small teams
bleak spoke
Ah
drifting cloud
you dont do any synapse dmg
bleak spoke
Just play pirate with breath or something
drifting cloud
lmao nice meme
maybe assa breath, who the fuck is gonna take outlaw thats gonna get outmdmged by tank on boss
bleak spoke
Lmao true
drifting cloud
but yeah at that point youre just taking literally anything else