PB in M+ will probably depend on dungeon again
#assassination
fleet whale
balmy condor
I don't mind it
fleet whale
in ST that is
balmy condor
but its so boring
and its a pretty small ground effect
get cucked when there's movement
just feels bad
somber egret
So bad in dungowns when the tank kites them out of a ground effect you can’t see.
balmy condor
pb needs a rework tbh
its just not good
its a little disappointing that our final row is also the weakest for raids
somber egret
Change it to corrosive poison that coats enemy’s in an area so even if they move out it does damage and maybe a slow
balmy condor
that's basically just deadly and crippling poison though
that functionality is fok to apply poisons
somber egret
Besides the charges idea I have no clue how to make it better.
fleet whale
the charges solution is by far the best one
somber egret
But then we’re just spamming the charges on cd for single target. Is that fun?🤷♂️
balmy condor
remove it and make a new talent imo
if you give it charges, it's aoe shiv
if you leave it where it is right now, its mad boring and jank
fleet whale
hunger for blood as the talent
somber egret
Was the fact it was new in legion what made it “cool”?
Now I’m sad about pb being just meh
balmy condor
it was "cool" cause it did about 10x the damage
a random ground effect was like 25% of our damage
which is insane
that's why it was cool
fleet whale
it could make for insane opener damage
fleet whale
and on average it was more like 8% but it had insane variance
balmy condor
yeah that too
iron valve
when it triggered in AoE your numbers went 📈
balmy condor
in dungeons it was much higher
balmy condor
I remember on aluriel, I had zodyck's pb
and AP on all the adds
stacked in melee
it was late in the fight
and it still doubled my dps
fleet whale
AP proc rate was way too low for me to like
and it was a stacking poison
and it limited sin's target switching even more
balmy condor
stacking poisons is a decent idea though
even to just have as an option
but AP was so overtuned
and double dipped mastery
fleet whale
and really boring
balmy condor
mastery made things hit harder, and AP stronger, which made things hit harder
balmy condor
just scaled everything out of control for no reason
fleet whale
and i didn't really like not having DP
poison damage just seems too integral to the spec... maybe if ap was non-lethal but tuned far lower
balmy condor
would've been the only non-lethal that gives a damage increase
that just destroys all the only non-lethals
even if it were only 5%
tranquil granite
hi is it any macro that i can use when my rogue ding 110 or 120 for assasination ?
or weakaura
balmy condor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
tranquil granite
with one of them would you recomend ?
tranquil granite
so they are all the samer ?
tranquil granite
what level do i need too use htem ?
balmy condor
yeah that's just weakauras tbh
like if you don't have the ability, obviously that's not gonna work
warm drift
CT or PB in atal this week?
jolly helm
I suggest CT
frigid kestrel
ok so im up to Maldraxxus in the Beta, and im loving
gonna spend alot of time this weekend in beta sorting things out
Whats our best Legos so far?
fierce briar
do people use bleed build in raids?
cause i always see sins with most damage from garrote and rupture
my max damage is from envenom
i think im doing something wrong
hidden bay
yes we do
check out this cool guide! https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-exsanguinate/
frigid kestrel
@fierce briar Bleed builds are the meta now
deft cape
Returning rogue player to 8.3, is it worth going after blood of the enemy rank 3 this late in the patch
deft cape
HC nyalotha with guild
surreal solar
probably good with just the generic easy gets
deft cape
Mostley m+ pugs too
Okay okay il bear that in mind
Im putting out like 30k avg dps and i wanna up it
Read the guide
And like it looks like between corruptions and essences is what i should focus on
surreal solar
essences > corruption, corruption is likely gone in 2-3 weeks
deft cape
Yeah thats what a guildy has been saying too
So as a sin player, what essences should i go for rn?
I already have a couple rank 1s
frigid kestrel
for mythic + you want Blood Major and the following minors
Conflict and Strife
Breath Of The Dying
Memory Of Lucid Dreams
If you dont have Conflict and Strife you can Use Vision Of Perfection
jolly helm
I am going crit, strike thru and full aoe ss traits for this week
@fierce briar
doing 90k
frigid kestrel
That's what you should be going since its Fort this week on Keys (Unless your in WS or KR). But that doesn't mean you cant pump out decent numbers in raid with that build either.
mental trout
soo i just got the beta, any pins for rogue in SL right now? wondering what i should be trying
main warren
Try whatever sounds cool
balmy condor
Beta is for testing
icy ember
sub feels pretty powerful atm
balmy condor
Trying to be optimal on beta is kinda ?
icy ember
idk what it is but i never lose health on sub
royal lantern
well
its lvling/"casual" content, ofc you dont really lose health cus of the passive healing
but turns out, when you actually do endgame stuff like raiding and m+, selfheal is pretty worthless unless its overtuned ala legion afflock
mental trout
not optimal, but i know others have put in a lot of time learning about the changes etc... would rather skip doing some thing shitty and learn from others lol. Dont get much time to game
balmy condor
Maintain slice and dice, hit shiv on cooldown like you would Tb, hit bone spike on cooldown for the combo points, use blindside procs if you’re running that
scarlet hedge
How woulb a dedicated poison build be with the new slice and dice + venthyr? You can run some pretty insane potency conduits between instand poison damage and Slaughter
balmy condor
Poison is definitely the play
Venthyr looks good, but only with the conduit really
The poison part is identical to deadly at the moment
We might see master poisoner tbh
hollow ether
With bone spike and snd added, getting rotation going on m+ on beta seems like I'm trying to get a freight train moving. Its like 6-7 gcd to get all the bleeds+snd
icy ember
ye it feels incredibly slow, prolly playin blindside will improve your gameplay
icy ember
well i just run outlaw in M+
hollow ether
I hope CT doesn't get popular lol
balmy condor
CT will probably be good in m+
hollow ether
With sub you can talent into premed which helps a lot with eliminating the snd maintenance
warm olive
Is assa in SL similar to bfa gameplay wise? I really enjoy having strong dots and rotting enemies down.
icy ember
ye its basically the same except they add in slice and di 
balmy condor
If you play crit build wit tb it’s basically the same thing
hollow ether
So garrote, rupt, bone spike, snd, ct?
balmy condor
Yep
warm olive
Ok cool thx
balmy condor
And you’d still run subterfuge too
So you’d be doing gar gar gar bone spike CT bone spike bone spike rupture
It’s a lot of dead globals tbh
hollow ether
Yeah it's slow
balmy condor
Sin looks pretty doomed for dungeons atm
drifting hare
one can say already approximately which spec will be raid capable?
wraith badge
not sure if this is allowed in this channel, for covenants is night fae going to be competitive at all or is is bonespike or bust?( if night fae is competitive, is it because of subterfuge uptime and would that include the 100% crit legendary?)
balmy condor
What ass addon do we have now
balmy condor
@wraith badge we don’t know if it’s gonna be competitive, but atm it’s behind bone spike and venthyr. The crit legendary seems to be kinda whack tbh
Might have some nightstalker+envenom things with the Two, but subterfuge + crit legendary is really yikes, ma does nothing
wraith badge
any other legendary stand out that would work/synergize well with nightfae? cause im guessing bonespike will be nerf'
nerf'd hard soon
balmy condor
The poison execute lego probably
@drifting hare sub was pretty good in tomb, antorus, and uldir
wraith badge
hehe uldir... the one boss that resulted in sub getting nerf'd
balmy condor
ye
drifting hare
I remember playing sub in uldir but it got "replaced" by garrote azerite trait rly quick
drifting hare
sub feels really good on beta right now and I hope it will become viable in raids later
drifting hare
you know the deal when blizzard is tuning stuff after first mythic id's
honest basin
You know
drifting hare
thats my biggest concern
balmy condor
if bone spike gets nerfed, you're gonna see even less sin
sub as a base class is tuned better than sin currently
balmy condor
well of course currently
drifting hare
would be optimal if sub and sin could be set to the same level somehow
I don't like the idea having just one spec
balmy condor
I don't think predicting that sub's gonna get stomped is right though
honest basin
Doesn't have to be stomped
But as of now it's really looking ahead
So they might make it look less ahead
drifting hare
nah would be stupid if they do. I'm not talking for the majority but I guess lot of rogue players cant wait for some sub
balmy condor
I mean, its not though
wraith badge
im proud of sub for being "meta" come 9.0, its good to see the step child shine for a bit
balmy condor
the only reason it feels so far ahead is cause the legendary is busted
and giving 4x crits
and all sorts of crazy shit
they fix that, it's going to be fine
drifting hare
how many legendarys can you wear at a time?
balmy condor
1
drifting hare
ok thats actually good
near pilot
1 at the beginning
near pilot
will be more as we go through xpac
drifting hare
these conduits are the same as legion artifact skills?
balmy condor
not sure what you mean
drifting hare
you could give talent points in your weapons in legion
do conduits work the same way?
balmy condor
they're more similar to essences
drifting hare
i see
havent come that far yet I dont know how far you can progress in beta
still in bastion lvl 52
drifting hare
i'm still not happy what they did to outlaw. can't get friends with it
last shard
Honestly, planning on playing Assass just because it feels good 🤷♂️
balmy condor
yeah I mean some people enjoy that slow spec
drifting hare
I don't like playing dynamic specs where you have to keep up several stuff. may depent on my age I don't know
but when I play outlaw on beta I'm just overwhelmed by the stuff I have to keep up
I even had to rebind my keys which screwed my muslce memory extemely hard
and I'm kinda sensitive when I have to rebind one key
tired cipher
I've been enjoying Sin a lot just because it feels like the simplicity of the rotation allows a lot of room to focus on optimization
balmy condor
outlaw has way less to keep up than sin though
drifting hare
i think i expressed myself wrong. i don't know how to explain it either, but outlaw just doesn't feel right anymore.
kidney shot was replaced, between the eyes is now just a debuff you have to keep upright. rtb was replaced by slice and dice, which brings my whole "rotation" upside down
call me autistic but thats what I deeply hate
then you get other talents that also need space somewhere
it just got flooded with talents
balmy condor
slice doesn't replace rtb
drifting hare
you feel me
drifting hare
yea but you have to pay attention and press it
balmy condor
you had to do that anyway though
drifting hare
it was less flooded in bfa like I say, for me it is extremely unusual
but I will get used to it
have to
I wish they would have just remove rtb
daring tendon
is this good?
balmy condor
unless you have an exsang setup, tb will be better
daring tendon
its just im leveling in legion and there this boss that keeps killing me idk if im not doing enough dam or what
daring tendon
should i use MP then instead of EP?
daring tendon
yeah its just i keep dying to this boss
balmy condor
which one
subtle drift
Use the glyph which gets rid of dots when you blind someone to heal yourself up
Oh wait...
drifting hare
are there any restrictions in SL when you want to change spec? like we had in BFA when you did not have the right azerite traits?
not talking about secondary stats
drifting hare
usually I'm a min maxer but this time I choose convenants for rpg elements. I really like the idea and the story behind
balmy condor
shame they don't have any rpg elements kek
fleet whale
i mean there def is some rpg elements to them. Like a night elf going night fae
makes way more sense than a nelf necrolord, assuming he/she isn't a dk
balmy condor
you pick it for the aesthetic basically
drifting hare
ventyr and necro got something rogueish for me
balmy condor
but there's no compelling reason why you're picking them
drifting hare
but I'm more into ventyr
balmy condor
if you're a kyrian, the emissary is like "go help the venthyr and chill with them for a day"
drifting hare
its just sad they wont expand the idea into the next addon most likely
balmy condor
like in terms of leveling and story, sure
but end game
there's not really any "rpg" happening
fleet whale
There is still story in endgame, but it's pretty much bits and pieces
it's usually told through cinematics which are rare
coral abyss
Just hit lvl 90, toxic blade or exsanguinate for continued dungeon grinds, not quest grinds
balmy condor
tb
coral abyss
outlaw made me want to vomit
balmy condor
exsang is dumpster garbage until you get SS and a ton of haste
and by then it'll be prepatch/expansion
and all those things will be gone
coral abyss
And pre-emptive question, which 100 talent for said dungeon spam while leveling
frail jungle
pour one out for exsang. 2020-2020
vestal wren
pls keep the memes to #off-topic
strange python
Should i be concerned that assas is one of the bottom of the barrel specs on wowmeta or will it probably go up before launch?
balmy condor
wowmeta is bait as fuck
royal lantern
you know that a tier list is 100%legit and not clickbait shit when EVERYTHING EXCEPT 3 THINGS are bellow B tier
vast forum
wowmeta 💤
quartz creek
what's everyones take on golden plumage vs galecaller boon?
quartz creek
so boon's mostly for low movement fights in ST/raids then? Plumage for anything else
quartz creek
thanks
balmy condor
np
royal lantern
you get the majority of galecalers value when you use exsang while standing inside
you dont need too stand the entire duration in it
slow finch
SL question prep: bis legendarie(s) and soul conduits for raid dmg?
balmy condor
we don't know
royal lantern
exsang snapshots the haste you had during the cast
balmy condor
dashing/zoldyck is good
quartz creek
darn just got my plumage too but yall make it sound like the boon is pog af
balmy condor
boon is bis with the exped build
royal lantern
tbh
balmy condor
royal lantern
expansion is over
balmy condor
ye
royal lantern
its littearly less then 2 months left
probably 1 month and 1-2 weeks until prepatch
stuff doesnt matter anymore at this point
i really would not farm galecallers just for that last month anymore lol
balmy condor
I wouldn't farm anything
deft patio
so what covenant do you guys think is best for raiding?
red gazelle
about to start prog on m nazoth, im playing CT build, i shouldnt worry about puttting bleeds on everything right, just single target big tenticles, gettting past first pscycos phase?
void pecan
Depends on your group
sometimes you need to kill tendies for psychus stacks, sometimes you can just drool on the psycus and interupt
red gazelle
this is my second night prog, dps was very low last night but i was trying to dot alot of stuff
deft patio
you should only dot 2 targets
red gazelle
kk
also, any specific essesnce set up i should be running? im usuing blood of enemy, lucid,conflict and breath
balmy condor
you have enough haste for CT but not enough to drop lucid?
should probably be blood, breath/iris/formless
grim mason
whats a safe amount of corruption for M+
viscid hill
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
urban gale
can i link a log here to get advice on where i could do better
urban gale
dm'd
humble valley
Does Sin use Eviscerate at all on beta?
raven locust
Sin doesn't have eviscerate
humble valley
Over envenom, I mean
balmy condor
envenom is our finisher
humble valley
I thought all specs were getting it?
balmy condor
eviscerate is sub
?
where'd you read that
finishers are the same as they are now
balmy condor
yeah, and then envenom replaces eviscerate
humble valley
Like replaces the ability or Sin just won't use it?
balmy condor
sin does not have eviscerate
sin has envenom
idk exactly how that datamining read evisc avail to all specs
but the finishers remain as they are now
the only changes are nightblade is gone, sub get rupture
humble valley
Nightblade is getting replaced with rupture for sub?
humble valley
Okay. Wow that's actually a relief. I was looking to switch to sub, and looking at the changes on Wowhead made it seem like all the specs were going to have like 6-7 spenders
humble valley
Am I reading it right that all specs will get Evasion and Riposte?
raven locust
no
humble valley
The wowhead changes read really weirdly then
balmy condor
datamining tends to do that
humble valley
So for sub, does rupture do something different or do they lose the whole nightblade benefit for a weaker bleed than the sin?
balmy condor
its just like sin rupture
the 15% damage from nightblade got baked into shadow dance
balmy condor
yes
balmy condor
new
humble valley
Mmk. Sub's looking pretty good
balmy condor
indeed it is
humble valley
Feels like Sin is getting the least amount of love going into SLands
balmy condor
yep
lunar wave
That’s the truth
main berry
Anybody got a good weakaura for blindside? Something that makes an icon pop up and glow when it procs and when it can be used below 35% hp
I tried make one but the icon doesn't disappear when target is dead.
lunar wave
I thought the default blizzard UI had something like that? Or are you trying to get something different
slim estuary
I've only killed M nzoth once. Can anyone help me direct my damage better? I came in on rekill so don't have huge pull numebrs
tropic ocean
use cd on boss all the time if you're asking doing the best for your group
If you want to log analyze which tentacles survive your whole garrote duration and multi dot on them
Multidot on harvesters
Fok/ct onto small adds
azure fossil
Hey guys, what legos/talents you have to run in order to make assassin work in m+ in shadowlands?
summer marten
Ffs... sin still has snd? its going to be hard to force myself to keep playing rogue with that fun tax
fallow otter
@slim estuary got a log?
slim estuary
swift timber
ur opener seems a bit scuffed
civic hatch
what race is better for raiding, human or night elf?
royal lantern
if you need too ask about racial differences
you are lightyears away too play on the level where your race makes even a 0,0001%difference
sorry but, racial questions are the most stupid stuff people do
somber egret
Sneaky cows
normal olive
Big sneaky bois
surreal solar
stealth cows, they're so good nobodies seen them
heady pollen
Kul Tiran males are BiS rogue race, because they are the closest thing we've ever hard to Tauren Rogues
harsh anchor
diaper babies
surreal solar
kul tirans are so ugly, and idek how they get to be druids
royal lantern
cus druids are ugly
vestal wren
Shadowlands Information:
Talents:
3-3-1-0-0-2-1 - Single target
2-2-3-0-0-2-1 (2 with higher ranks in Poisoned Katar, 3 in more aoe heavy dungeons) - M+
2-2-2-0-0-2-3 - Sustained AoE
Covenants:
Night fae >Kyrian >= Venthyr > Necrolord
More details: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
Legendary choice:
Single Target: Dashing Scoundrel > Zoldyck >= Doomblade > Master Assassin
Mythic Plus: Zoldyck >= Master Assassin
Stat Suggestions:
Prioritize Haste, other stats seem close
Conduits:
Single Target: Well-Placed Steel >= Lethal Poisons > Maim, Mangle > Poisoned Katar
Mythic Plus: Reverberation >= Sudden Fractures >= Lethal Poisons = Septic Shock = Lashing Scars
normal olive
oof
fair otter
hey @vestal wren , how is Doomblade, is it at all good with the Garrotte conduit (Maim, Mangle) for Sin?
surreal solar
wait, i thought venthyr was doing okay? and night fae was deemed awkward
fair otter
I would still pick bonespike 😛 haha
pulsar python
Relatively new rogue, love playing Assassination, can you guys advice if its a good choice early game SL?
planning to do some decent M+ (~3.5k) and raiding (maybe not cutting edge but more like 7 or 8/10)
fair otter
If you look at our pins, Fuu just posted something for SL, though changes may be made
or scroll up a bit 😄
normal olive
That doesn't say much about the state of assa tho
pulsar python
cant seem to find a pin for SL sorry!
normal olive
it only says what's good for assa 
fair otter
thats what Fuu just posted
pulsar python
yeah im wondering more about if its behind sub/outlaw or comparable (~5% diff?)
surreal solar
im gonna go with thats taking the venthyr specific conduit rank off the table
pulsar python
for a mix of M+ and raidin
fair otter
ahh I misunderstood
pulsar python
np... i just started rogue, and love the sin spec and was trying to avoid learning a new playstyle
normal olive
Are you playing the exang build atm?
fair otter
Right now Sin is probably the worst at M+, and is I believe "slightly' in line with Sub for ST
pulsar python
and i got access to beta so thinking if its going to hold me back early when stats are low
fair otter
But Sub is all borked right now and doing extreme damage on both lol
surreal solar
subs beating everyone in beta due to a broken legendary
pulsar python
no im not playing exang because i just started... dont have any corruption etc.
fair otter
If sub comes back in line then normally Sin and Sub are near each other for ST
mellow pumice
Right now, it's not worth commenting on because of tuning and broken leggos.
normal olive
^
somber egret
Celerity LEGO works for All rogues? Wtf🤔
fair otter
Ahh okay, I just wondered since it had the conduit that would work with it, thank you Fuu
vestal wren
poisonos kathar could be okay with HB
surreal solar
i still never got an answer, why is Night Fae above Venthyr after all the praise venthyr got lately while most still dump on night fae?
vestal wren
thats a valic concern
normal olive
Furry bois > Wanna be Vampires 
surreal solar
i mean, i like night fae, but the ability honestly isnt all that promising given all the praise i've heard of venthyr
rose violet
i've heard people praise kyrian
surreal solar
kyrian's bad, period
rose violet
burnt temple
Is Venthyr better than the "state of rogues in SL" guide says I assume
vestal wren
so it might get "stronger" later with ranks
surreal solar
ah, so it was going off the lesser conduit
vestal wren
but there is no information how high ranks will be in the raid, this makes it unreasonable to suggest it over night fae or necro
surreal solar
it comes from the campaign at lvl 1 right? where do we get the other 14 lvls?
burnt temple
I was just starting to look at playing rogue for SL. The necro ability looks kind of cool
vestal wren
night fae also gets a boost with MA legendary, but it won't be above necro
burnt temple
Dashing looks nice. How does Celerity work for Sin?
vestal wren
im rerolling if i have to take MA
it does not look like that atm, but balancing could change that
surreal solar
celerity is an outlaw legendary, shouldnt work for sin at all
frigid kestrel
I thought the Necro ability was going to be the way to go
Feels good, but feeling and having actual math is different
somber egret
Yea I don’t know why celerity is on that list lol
burnt temple
Ok thanks that's why I was confused
vestal wren
Yea I don’t know why celerity is on that list lol
because its strong
surreal solar
that or wowhead classed it wrong?
balmy condor
Legendaries aren’t spec specific
So you can use celerity as sin
Well I mean they are spec specific
But you can use them on different specs
somber egret
So the legendary let’s you use an ability that’s not for your spec?
balmy condor
No it just gives you a proc
burnt temple
So even though Adrenaline Rush says Outlaw we can get the effect? That's neat
balmy condor
Yes
burnt temple
Intriguing
somber egret
Yea that’s what I mean. You can’t get a spell prof for a different spec
frigid kestrel
I didn’t know that
burnt temple
Could see why it's strong if that's the case
somber egret
That’s weird and dangerous lol
balmy condor
That’s how legendaries worked in legion too
night kindle
Why does it seem like it's a complete error. Here assa, have an outlaw Leggo.
normal olive
It's fun
balmy condor
In legion the best warlock legendary for all 3 specs was a demonology legendary
normal olive
balmy condor
I was told
night kindle
Lol
burnt temple
There are a few in the sub section that look like other specs could use too
night kindle
Only one would be deathly shadows
burnt temple
Finality wouldn't work?
night kindle
Yes but only works on rupture
somber egret
This has to be a bug
balmy condor
It’s not
burnt temple
I main a resto shaman so it's not like a lot of enhancement leggos would help me lol
night kindle
Hmm, well I would like me some adrenaline rush
somber egret
What other legos worked like this? Where it gave you access to other spec specific cds?
night kindle
Wonder what the RPPM is on celerity
balmy condor
It isn’t giving you access to a cooldown
rose violet
you get a 4 sec proc
balmy condor
It’s literally just giving you the proc
Would it make you feel better if instead of adrenaline rush, blizz called the buff celerity instead?
burnt temple
I'm sad no other shaman specs have a leggo that grants Ancestral Guidance qq
Also portal pants were CLEARLY the best warlock leggo.
tropic ocean
balmy condor
Lmao
burnt temple
Hha
burnt temple
It could probably just be argued that Celerity doesn't belong in the Outlaw section? I get why it's there lol
tropic ocean
i didnt read everythin but thats not how legion leggies worked
and for afflock(not sure if anyone played anything else cuz it was massively op) you played helm leggy+ring
and only switched on fights where u could proc sephuz or needed the slow
burnt temple
Is it not how they worked or were there none like that? Did SnD get unpruned? I can't remember.
Specs have had barely any overlap on abilities lately
balmy condor
You could equip legion legendaries on different specs
tropic ocean
in legion there was few leggies that were spec-wide(usually shit)
balmy condor
They just weren’t good
tropic ocean
and the other legendaries where spec-tied
burnt temple
Yeah
tropic ocean
as in they affected a spec only ability
tropic ocean
there was cloak for rogue for example
which worked on all specs
but the bis leggies usually were tied to an ability
balmy condor
Yep
tropic ocean
like wrists increasing the damage of poison and bleeds
other specs didnt have poison or bleed so
useless
burnt temple
It's a fair point in this case that the buff could be called Celerity and then it would just be a "general" rogue legendary and we wouldn't have this discussion.
But since they called it AR it got slapped in the outlaw section
tropic ocean
sub leggy was extended shadowblades and boots gave u energy rec if u shadowstriked from range so
no effect on other spec
wouldnt mind having leggies that gave an useful proc for all 3 specs so u can multispec early on easier
vestal wren
having more options is good
balmy condor
True
vestal wren
also i rly dislike how potential abbreviations overlap in sl
burnt temple
I wish I had beta just to see these systems. The words still get me confused between covenants soulbinds and conduits lol.
Mainly the soulbinds and conduits and how it's all related
vestal wren
"ill play with DS"
you mean deeper stratagem or dashing scoundrel ?
balmy condor
And then I got it
burnt temple
Or play with me
balmy condor
@vestal wren I mean dark shadow
normal olive
Wait you guys can read? 
burnt temple
No
vestal wren
hould i put a note in the pin that notes that celerity is a outlaw lego?
normal olive
Would be better, i bet people will look at wowhead and not find it because they don't look at outlaw legos
balmy condor
No cause then we’ll get back down the rabbit hole of “but why does sin use it”
normal olive
But otherwise we will get the question what celerity is
burnt temple
Isn't it a monk talent
balmy condor
And I can do a lot but people believe orange more than me lul
surreal solar
no, it should be there, that way when blizz realizes this they either flip it to a general, or they'll spec lock
frigid kestrel
If we are going
1-2-1-0-0-2-1 for raid are we stacking Mastery > Haste > Crit?
Or will that be another xpac of “sim yourself” ?
balmy condor
Haste > mastery > crit probably
And what do you mean another xpac of sim yourself
Of course sim yourself
Trusting template characters over your own character is never a good idea
normal olive
A bis list is nice, but until you get everything on there you still need to sim
burnt temple
Simming going to be more or less complex with the removal of traits and corrution and essences vs Shadowlands covenants plus soulbinds plus leggos haha
Seems less
balmy condor
Probably less
frigid kestrel
Na, this xpac was the only one I played where no one could give me basic directions on stats
balmy condor
That’s more of a corruption thing
frigid kestrel
Of course you always sim yourself, but answer to overarching questions of curiosity was always answered by “sin yourself”
vestal wren
stats change a lot with diffrent gear
balmy condor
^
burnt temple
I miss being able to build a bis set haha
vestal wren
its likely that all 4 of the legendary items i mentioned in the pin want diffrent stats
MA is the obviouse one that def. don't want a to high crit value
frigid kestrel
Ye, but I’m looking for the general answer so I know where to start testing.
balmy condor
Haste > mast is probably fine
frigid kestrel
Gotcha
vestal wren
if you want to know stat wights, feel free to compile simc from source
the apl/implementaiton should be good enough to give you reasonable results
fleet whale
i'm sad to see that blindside is bad 😦
balmy condor
vestal wren
not master poisoner
normal olive
minor thicket
So sub is looking like the class to play for ST dmg over Sin?
Is that because sub was ignored for so long
They gave it some love
balmy condor
its because they have a busted op legendary atm
sin is looking fine single target
and will probably remain as the prog spec
sub will be viable and maybe beat out on some fights
really hard to tell though
minor thicket
Ah gotcha
lunar wave
Yeah I see assass being the go to raid spec once the broken legendary is nerfed for sub
minor thicket
Icy veins posted about it. Basically said drooling over sub
lunar wave
It is VERY good right now because of the legendary
balmy condor
akaari's is giving combo points and 4x crits
so with weaponmaster, it's technically possible to get 12 combo points from a single shadowstrike if you have shadowblades up I think
surreal solar
rogues are usually all pretty close together
surreal solar
but atm sub is just crazy due to akari being dumb
icy ember
ye even leveling sub feels ez as fuck, i just rickrolled the first 2 levels and that is w/out akaris
burnt temple
What about dungeons? Still outlaw?
burnt temple
Gotcha
scarlet hedge
Advice for covenant + legendaries for a sin rogue on launch?
Cant decide here on the Beta.
burnt temple
They pinned something earlier
scarlet hedge
Savior
burnt temple
Looks like to me necro and celerity if I want to play both Sin and Outlaw
scarlet hedge
Venthyr has the potential to be so strong once they fix it. Since its jsut replacing Deadly Poison with no damage increases from conduits or anything. Just does the same damage.
With Slaughter Scars + Lethal Poisons, then you can be set for a strong af poison build for ST and AOE?
balmy condor
The conduit affects slaughter, not slaughter poison
grizzled jay
Sin still the only one that can spread Slaughter poison in aoe tho
scarlet hedge
We will see how Bonespike and Slaughter compares when SL drops, but the potential is HIGHLY there
Just with how many interactions you can sitll have with it as its still a poison, but sucks that its not nature damage and makes your shiv feel out of place.
scarlet hedge
Same...
honest basin
Wondering, does a Mastery/Crit build with Master Poisoner, the conduit that increases non periodic poison damage by 30% at Rank 1, the buff to Assa SnD (20% more % if I recall correctly ?) to proc that deadly very often, and Dashing Scoundrel for even more poison damage + for the energy regen look okay, or is that total garbage ?
balmy condor
not sure what the sims say
but MP is worse than blindside single target
so the idea is kind of already falling apart
honest basin
You can't say "MP is worse" straight up if I put into the equation 2 other things that work with poison damage but not ambush
fleet whale
i assume these things have already been accounted for in the sims
and blindside is still winning
balmy condor
^
they wouldn't put up a pin saying "this is the best single target" without testing a ton of combinations
grizzled jay
Even damage aside, Blindside makes Ambush free which is really big for Sin.
gilded trellis
Does anyone know if Slaughter poison still replaces your lethal poison? Wondering if we can stack it with wound poison or if its working as intended...
balmy condor
the question isn't "is mp better"
honest basin
Was the Assa SnD buff taken into account too ? Last time I logged in it was in the "to learn" spell book, but you didn't actually learn it so SnD was still 50% only.
balmy condor
the question is "how much of a loss is it"
grizzled jay
The Energy you will save over a fight from Blindside is extremely strong on Sin.
fleet whale
the TC's account for all these things
fleet whale
they basically "fix" bugs themselves in sims
i do wonder if MP could be worth in M+ due to making numbing even better though
grizzled jay
MP will def be bis in M+
fleet whale
prob depends on affixes
balmy condor
but I doubt it'll be the go to BiS
you're garrote spreading and getting a ton of energy back in m+
fleet whale
numbing seems strong for things like necrotic
grizzled jay
Numbing is the strongest DR in the game for M+
and since most enemies in dungeons so far don't cast as much as BfA, tanks will end up taking more melee over a dungeon than BfA (as a percent of their total dam taken)
Spires is one of the dungeons where melee isn't as prevalent of a damage source
balmy condor
yeah I mean it'll be good
but its so strong atm
I don't see it going live like that tbh
like I said, MP will probably be really good
I'm cautious about it though
grizzled jay
i would not be surprised if Numbing launches this way then gets nerfed in S2, but I expect it to be this way for S1
And Rogue to be a required class for high keys for Numbing
vagrant scaffold
is it better to use bone spike off cd as long as you don't overcap CP
balmy condor
that's what its currently looking like
thorn plover
i thought melee attacks as a % of dmg were significantly less overall in SL than BFA for m+
thorn plover
*for dmg taken
balmy condor
oh
thorn plover
i meant for tanking, not rogue dmg
balmy condor
thorn plover
balmy condor
wooden sparrow
What did they do to assass in the latest tune lol
balmy condor
r2 slice and dice
which doesn't do anything atm
but its supposed to be 20% extra attack speed
vestal wren
change it to energy generation and we have a deal
balmy condor
tru
oh also @wooden sparrow https://www.wowhead.com/shadowlands-class-changes
this lists changes by build
so you can look at that as well
main blaze
Hey so lethal poisons acquired through 2 conquest. Is 2 conquest easy to get and does the cost increase for each rank? Like rank 1 is 2 but rank 5 might be 30 conquest?
conduit that is
wooden sparrow
Thanks. Just surprised at the changes on the rankings list. I know there is quite a long time before anything is finalized
balmy condor
if you say wowmeta rankings
wooden sparrow
Been considering coming back to the rogue life but I hate outlaw. K
balmy condor
yeah, welcome to the "I hate outlaw" channel XD
gray shard
@main blaze yeah that’s easy to get you just have to win a arena and u get like 15 or math conquest
As a main outlaw I feel sad ._.
balmy condor
dunno if that's final numbers tbh
main blaze
You get 15 on beta at the moment?
gray shard
But the problem we all got right now is why should anyone bring a rogue into the next raid tier
main blaze
Might have some tuning but that might not be that bad
balmy condor
it doesn't seem bad
wooden sparrow
I switched to DH in legion because of the zoomies and I just didn't like the roll the bones playstyle at all
balmy condor
its just a cooldown in shadowlands
cinder spire
Did they ever fix the Crimson Tempest bleed giving us Energy in SL
balmy condor
god fuck
fleet whale
the meta/tier list virus is spreading it seems
soon there's going to be one pinned in RH
balmy condor
Subtlety is also very strong at sustained cleave on council style fights due to Serrated Bone Spike Icon Serrated Bone Spike.
oh no.
I already see it before my eyes
"is sub better cleave than sin?"
nothing but fire and brimstone
balmy condor
idfk dude
like at least it says "While there are no Warcraft Logs rankings or simulation results yet for most classes in the upcoming raid, this list is based on my own experience throughout every raid test playing with some of the best players for each class and specialization inside Castle Nathria on both Mythic and Heroic. While more anecdotal in nature, this tier list will reflect how competitive guilds will feel about bringing the various classes and specs into Castle Nathria."
but fuck dude
It's written by impakt though, he's in bdgg, so it must be accurate right
low girder
$$$$
low girder
yeah and then later it'll be updated when we actually have data
and they'll be like "what do you mean, it's accurate, look!"
balmy condor
We'd rather spread inaccurate information first, and correct it later, instead of just waiting for correct information
all the fotm rerollers jumping onto the aff lock train and then it gets stomped after heroic week
low girder
slightly better than wowmeta i guess where it'll be updated once going into heroic week and then never again
i did like the sub bit at the end though
'The only thing keeping Subtlety from being S-Tier is being a melee instead of ranged.'
balmy condor
well, that and a busted lego XD
low girder
lmao
scarlet sequoia
coral abyss
I already know some people who are like "we have 2 aff lock and a sub rogue slot planned, so those are locked in our recruitment"
and im just...
you KNOW they went off the damn meta feelcrafts
balmy condor
"a sub rogue slot planned"
coral abyss
yes
balmy condor
coral abyss
unironically
balmy condor
holy shit
low girder
i mean, mine is planned as sub currently, but i'll play whatever spec lol
balmy condor
yeah but you play a rogue, so sub is looking strongest
your raid isn't going "we have 20 slots, and one of them has to be a sub rogue"
low girder
yeah if it's like some guy gonna reroll specifically for sub, yikes
coral abyss
yep
it is
meanwhile im just leveling my rogue to play sin since they fucked up spriest into being proc relevant and bullshit and i hate procs
balmy condor
my dream one day is to be as clairvoyant as your raid lead
coral abyss
im like "yo i can just play rogue if we need a melee or two"
"yeah but you're sin"
void pecan
Stealing that emote. Thanks.
balmy condor
please don't tell me this is a CE guild
dire spoke
🙂
coral abyss
oh good heavens no I've only gotten back into BFA like 2 months ago total
CE guilds wouldnt take me regardless of my damn history in raiding
royal lantern
bruh
balmy condor
well, that's at least something
void pecan
Phew.
coral abyss
naw they mythic
royal lantern
i have a friend, that got his CE in top 200 something
coral abyss
atm
royal lantern
he applied for a rank ~800guild
balmy condor
lmao
royal lantern
they DIDNT took him(warlock,they looked for a warlock) because
here it comes
"your corruptions are not that good"
that shit was 3days ago
coral abyss
lol
dire spoke
balmy condor
my faith in humanity can't sink any lower
coral abyss
dude i havent even botherd
royal lantern
corruptions are gone in ~1month btw
void pecan
Horde guilds?
coral abyss
applying to higher rank ones
void pecan
Sounds like some alliance shit, and I'm alliance.
coral abyss
im just gunna work my way up the ladder
balmy condor
I feel like I need a cold shower
coral abyss
just a pity i dont have any recent CE's since i quit for wod and only came back for like late bfa really
low girder
i mean i've also seen top 200 guilds ask why you're using x talent
because you should be using y talent
when y talent is trash
fun experience
coral abyss
i mean its the same at any level
low girder
always bring someone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about with a class to an interview
if you're gonna ask shit like that
coral abyss
ive had people ask "why are you using wrathion trinket, it sucks get pysche shredder
when literally im
9 weeks rolling
and jackshit
off skitra
dry hedge
ah the 10 yrs experience needed for an entry level position thing
balmy condor
its worse than that
coral abyss
you think ppl give a shit fi you were getting CEs left right and center in mop
or current heroic in cata
?
hell ppl dont give a damn about legion even
if you werent getting bfa CEs
no one cares
balmy condor
I had a guy try and apply for main tank
hadn't played since cata
his experience was "server top 10 vanilla"
low girder
rofl
marsh wharf
I just realized since toxic blade was moved to shiv baseline at levle 56, we don't have a form of toxic blade in the pre patch..........
balmy condor
asked him what server
low girder
yeah TB is gone for prepatch, wouldn't worry too much though
marsh wharf
:l
balmy condor
said "dude that was like 14 years ago I don't remember those kinds of things"
coral abyss
lol
dire spoke
If you took breaks every second tier or hop around due to problems you must have good fucking logs at least and Show some effort in your application. We dont even care for CE, specially when its Post nerf
coral abyss
logs are meaningless with corruption atm though
i dont give a shit if im going 97-99% ilvl parses
cause i have proper corruptions
dire spoke
Not every tier had logs mate
coral abyss
who gives a damn
balmy condor
you can get more info than just "this person orange 
"
coral abyss
corruptions busted current logs open
balmy condor
but that requires more than 3 seconds of consideration from the recruiter
normal olive
Henlo people, i have grey logs Thanks for coming to my ted talk
marsh wharf
would you guys rather use alacrity or venom rush or exsang in place of toxic blade for pre patch pvp
balmy condor
venom rush 
coral abyss
and even then my logs are on spriest, which getting revamped
balmy condor
we don't talk about that
dry hedge
probably want the haste anyway since youll be losing all those expedients
balmy condor
kinda
marsh wharf
i don't have eexpedients for pvp i'm used to having gushing
balmy condor
10% haste is just a lot
marsh wharf
but the damage make up isn't bad without gushing
balmy condor
and exsang is kinda bad without insane haste
marsh wharf
yea true
alacrity gives way more energy back than venom rush why the fuck is venom rush even there
balmy condor
and venom rush is arguably one of the, if not the worst talent across every spec in the game
marsh wharf
alacrity gives back way more energy i don't understand how they allow that shit to stay on the tree
coral abyss
\
balmy condor
but wait
if mutilate is ~50 energy
and venom rush reduces by 5
thats 10%
alacrity is 10% haste
low girder
isn't surrender like good in SL
dry hedge
lool
low girder
ya'll got those power infusion bribes ready
coral abyss
fuck that shit im outying
on spriest
holy PI being ally and self castable
is cancer
pick one
normal olive
"i'll pay you 50k if you power infusion me when we bloodlust"
coral abyss
either make it self cast only or ally cast only
coral abyss
i dont wanna be forced to give a warlock my haste buff cause they can use it better
:(
normal olive
don't priests have a lego that give em the haste buff when they use it on someone else?
coral abyss
^