Aah gotcha, thanks!
#assassination
wheat stag
deft vault
Does blood sim higher for people or is it just better? CLF sims 2-3k higher for me
with the exsang build
distant lava
CLF sims higher for most I'm pretty sure
people don't really like it tho
plus on some fights like nzoth it's kinda bad
and it lines up weird too
deft vault
yeah it felt awkward to use imo
fathom swift
Nzoth is pretty much the only fight it doesnt line up that well tbh
distant lava
doesn't seem that good on carapace
naive cypress
Hey, we are starting nzoth prog now, and I have played outlaw for the entire raid, but RL wants me to swap assa for this boss. SInce Expedient isnt coming back till 14. July or some shit, I dont think the exang variant is possible for me in the near future. Is it possible to get a quick crash course into what I need to look for in an Assa build with TB for Nzoth?
distant lava
they don't like the 2 min / 3min cds
fathom swift
Depends what gear you have available for nzoth, sims are your friend
naive cypress
Should I just sim for ST ?
fathom swift
Ya pretty much
naive cypress
Just do 12 mins?
fathom swift
You bring assa for boss damage
naive cypress
Or should I just sim standard 5 min
fathom swift
Just 5 like default is fine
fathom swift
Expedient is still good, might not be to the extent it is for exsang
strange python
If you don't have expedient, just use the severe and strikethrough you have from outlaw probably
Sim it obviously. It's not bis, but it's also not garbage for assa
rancid bobcat
How geared is your outlaw set vs assassination
spark pike
anyone playing with guardian of azeroth what opener du you use?
fallow otter
sand whale
especially if you have a trigger happy boomkin
main forge
I mean you can run TA and tendies still do decent damage from carapace daggers.
not ideal, but more damage than no corruption at all
tropic charm
So I currently have 6 expedient 3s and 1 honed mind, but I just ran a sim and it said to replace 2 expedients for 2 rank 1 IS. Should I? Sim says it’s a 1.6K dps upgrade but I know expedient can be unreliable
strange python
dont
tropic charm
IS can be unreliable* not expedient
main forge
the sim is likely setup for single target boss
besides shad'har... many fights have adds or phases that don't share IS's debuff to increase damage
IS also has a habit to just wail off and hit a random whatever
even if you are full single target
fleet whale
If assassination had something like first dance traits to boost up haste IS would be more desirable
Havoc DH for example can use IS on most fights and still get really good value out of it, assassination really doesn't have a haste booster
strange python
we do have the haste numbers but then we dont have the corruption resistance to spare unless you play really high
main forge
like GCB sims better for me. but Plummage is likely better due to the fights where I have to move often
solid chasm
hi friends
balmy condor
o/
solid chasm
i know this is pvp but that channel isnt rly helpful
i am struggling with sub in pvp
how much easier is it to go sin
solid chasm
im giving up on sub bc its just too hard for me
balmy condor
pvp channel generally is better for this stuff, they just respond slower
I usually watch streamer highlights and stuff for stuff
solid chasm
i also just wanna learn sin bc im seeing from others that they use sin for bosses in 5 masks
bleak spoke
Sin is much much more damage though
balmy condor
reading a guide would help
bleak spoke
Toxic blade can kill someone
balmy condor
that's always step one
bleak spoke
Shadow dance applies more pressure though
solid chasm
is sin that much easier than sub?
bleak spoke
Yeh
balmy condor
sin is easy pz
bleak spoke
There’s no cooldown variability
So it’s like
You produce damage even after downtime
solid chasm
im only 3-4 months in to wow so idk anything about what i ahvent played
and sub is just too much for me atm\
bleak spoke
Yeah I learned sub when I was new cuz I loved the way the spec looked
But this entire expansion starting from bod has favored the other two specs dramatically
balmy condor
sub got gutted after uldir cheese
the only niche they had over the other specs was hard priority damage in pve when there was other mobs around
and it got removed entirely
solid chasm
ive only played classic wow when it came out and thats only bc a friend bought me a sub
bleak spoke
A passive was removed from the spec and an azerite trait was made significantly worse etc
bleak spoke
Yeh I love the theme of subtlety
bleak spoke
It can do content if you’re very good at it
But it’s definitely the opposite of a beginner spec
Simultaneously slow and extremely fast
And very punishing if you make errors
With questionable upside if you play perfect
balmy condor
not sure what "always the same" means
balmy condor
kinda
I'm no pvp god, but generally sin opener is the same with a kidney in there and some talent changes
sub is a lot of micromanaging and planning, sin is a lot of uptime and dot management
decent burst, lot of rot pressure in pvp, in pve they have good single target and insane cleave. Can have good aoe as well depending on azerite, but suffers in single target because of it
if you want to raid/m+ and pvp effectively, you'll realistically need at least 3 sets of azerite
which is one of the things that people tend to hate about sin
its not a fire mage or a bm hunter where its just the same everything regardless of fight, content, etc
rigid eagle
hey guys, is PP sim bait or something
trying to sim 4 bosses 40 secs for m+ and it's telling me that PP > BotD
balmy condor
yeah seems okay
you don't need the corruption res
botd isn't inherently aoe
so purification > botd seems kinda okay
its only like 800 dps though
kinda whatever imo
strange python
botd would be better on bosses i guess
rigid eagle
but damn that sim is also telling me to go DS with like 10% haste lol
balmy condor
yeah
strange python
you could sim that
balmy condor
4 targets = lots of energy
rigid eagle
but i guess the top dmg build is going to tank so hard on bosses
rigid eagle
i wish they can make dungeon slice work already lol
arctic walrus
pp is pretty unreliable on aoe regardless of how much extra damage it will do
balmy condor
dungeon slice does work
arctic walrus
and yes if you maximize every single point of aoe you will be absolute trash on st, which is still a considerable amount of any dungeon
balmy condor
dungeon slice has its downsides like anything else
but there's nothing wrong with it
arctic walrus
it's really not that great
balmy condor
^
arctic walrus
it'll end up favoring shit like scent of blood, haste heavy things etc
balmy condor
yeah
strange python
Kojiyama is typing...
rigid eagle
LOL scent of blood
arctic walrus
what are you trying to see
rigid eagle
just generic m+s stuff
arctic walrus
or sim ig
arctic walrus
same ilvl/both socket?
balmy condor
I think I usually sim 4 target 60 seconds
arctic walrus
the crit mastery is better btw
balmy condor
but m+ sims are troll tbh
rigid eagle
same ilvl and socket on everything
balmy condor
too much variation from dungeon to dungeon, affix to affix, group to group
arctic walrus
whats your other trinket then
balmy condor
no way to sim with that many variables
rigid eagle
its just the 460 xanesh trinket is only like 4~5% of my overall dmg on every run
balmy condor
seems fine
rigid eagle
im using a 475 scale because i still want a tiny bit of haste
rigid eagle
if i dont get at least SOME haste
versed mica
@balmy condor
rigid eagle
i feel like i'll fall asleep in front of my pc
patent topaz
only 5% 
balmy condor
?
versed mica
Our pfps lmao
arctic walrus
I mean not really, the spec feels fine in aoe if you spread enough bleeds
arctic walrus
do you have a vita at all
versed mica
hewwo
arctic walrus
I would honestly run vita and xanesh
versed mica
So how SHOULD I sim M+ sin then?
Like obvs nothing is perfect
but what is a good rule of thumb?
balmy condor
I see a lot of people doing 4-5 40-60 seconds
arctic walrus
4t 60s okayish baseline
balmy condor
yeah
balmy condor
3x SS 3x EB
arctic walrus
3ss 3eb unless kr/ws
rigid eagle
imagine having EB
arctic walrus
You're playing the wrong spec if you dont have an eb
rigid eagle
I DO
versed mica
I only have 3x ss tbh
balmy condor
yikes
versed mica
kinda cringe
balmy condor
stick with outlaw mr yellow man
arctic walrus
probably just go outlaw then and int less
balmy condor
fok without EB is actually the worst aoe ability in the game
arctic walrus
at least 1, even if you downgrade some azerite ilvl is worth it
rigid eagle
the only EB i had was the one that rolled with scent of blood on mid ring LOL
balmy condor
the base damage on it is so ridiculously bad
versed mica
I probably should, but I end up doing better M+ dmg as sin somehow
Guess I'm bad or ultra unlucky
balmy condor
if i weren't laughing I would cry myself to sleep about it
balmy condor
I mean
versed mica
I could have 1 EB
balmy condor
better than haste tho?
versed mica
LMAO no
arctic walrus
to get at least 1 eb I would say that's worth
versed mica
outlaw mastery is probably the worst mastery in the game
arctic walrus
but also, just go outlaw until you can get 3/1
rigid eagle
lol to get 1 EB, i would have to give up gorak tul
versed mica
I asked someone in here about it before, they said 3 ss better than 2 ss 1 eb
balmy condor
cause haste and mast suck for outlaw
I think it depends on dungeon tbh
or if you're on a teeming week, 2ss 1eb will crush
but generally if you're doing smaller pulls, you can get away with 3ss and just cleaving everything
versed mica
haste is okay for outlaw in M+ for the fast rerolling, but that's about it
rigid eagle
losing out on 3rd SS + blightborne is too much for just one EB tho right
rigid eagle
man im so fking depressed
i feel like all my gears are sub gears
half crit mastery half crit versa basically
i had to fish like crazy for anything with haste
versed mica
Hey man, I play every day and I still don't have 100% bis
It's just the nature of warcraft
balmy condor
farm more
rigid eagle
lol i think i actually might just have bis for sub tho
balmy condor
rigid eagle
yeah i think the sin m+ build is basically also the sub build
except maybe more severe less strikethrough?
and my sin M+ build is SOOOOO good except i cant roll EB to save my own life
xD
balmy condor
severe6 is usually enough
rigid eagle
got bis sub helm first try
TWICE
i gambled 1 480 and 1 465, both slithering loa back to back LUL
versed mica
Wait, what is the best corruption set up for M+ sin?
rigid eagle
severe and strikethrough basically
versed mica
I've just used my expedients bc 3ss no eb
balmy condor
severe6 and a bunch of strikethrough usually
versed mica
gotchya
rigid eagle
@balmy condor how "aint bad" are we talking tho
balmy condor
its usable
wary ice
its just corruption inefficient
balmy condor
how bout that
rigid eagle
i wanna switch mine out for strikethrough because i already have rank 9 severe
is it a waste of echoes
balmy condor
that's probably a good idea
wary ice
like you wouldnt buy it to modify existing gear
rigid eagle
okie
wary ice
but if u roll one in an uncorrupted slot its prob worth if it doesnt break your bracket
balmy condor
yeah, agree
if you have it, its fine to use
but don't hunt it down
cause there's better options (severe)
rigid eagle
actually tho
i have one severe 3 piece with no crit
can i get rid of that piece lol, i already have two other severe 3s
rigid eagle
that's one of them
balmy condor
get rid of that
rigid eagle
interesting i see
wary ice
i run severe 9 because i have no sockets :/
rigid eagle
would crit/vers also work
wary ice
crit verse can work w/ EB damage
rigid eagle
FUCK
balmy condor
vers isn't bad yeah
wary ice
Im being lazy and calling any 475 crit/verse or crit mast BIS
wary ice
mast is def a little better tho imo
wet dagger
You guys running 8 expedients now or what?
wary ice
scales harder on bleeds and most of fok's non-eb damage is deadly poison applications
balmy condor
for single target yeah
yeah
mast is better
but a little vers isn't going to kill you in your sleep
rigid eagle
wait actually tho this is my pants slot
so i can just keep fishing for a crit mast piece
wary ice
this is my current split w/ no buffs
wary ice
haste looks high cause i cant roll crit/mast belts to save my lief :/
wary ice
yeah its Howlis Shiv + dino belt
I also have vita equipped
but that was mostly from my last run more so than a standard build
(tyranical siege)
wary ice
yah im happy with it
just need wrath too gift another dagger and for some box RNG for trinkets and im there
rigid eagle
imagine if i had EB i bet id be 3k io
this is me still using my dagger from haste set too
i got rank 3 exped on that shit
wary ice
lol i do the opposite
on my raid set i run w/ strikethrough 6 cause they're on my daggers
rigid eagle
lul imagine having strikethrough
balmy condor
(just farm more echoes btw)
rigid eagle
also imagine having Eb for strikethrough to scale
xD
actually tho
pugging is rly slow this week
idk why the affixes are pretty decent
dont see any 11 - 14 keys for echo farms
balmy condor
people farm 15's for echoes from what I see
wary ice
idk man
wary ice
someone said its a push week and all these lovable oafsare like 'yeah now its time to push my 15'
rigid eagle
20 or above
all the 10-15 keys are ppl with sub 1k io
kinda scary to go into those groups
rigid eagle
the last time i tried one of those groups was a +15 UR, the 460 ilvl tank pulled the 4 mob pack at the start with blood matron + the slug thing
started an infinite wipe loop right at the dungeon entrance
xD
wary ice
just today i did a motherload and we lusted first boss, back pulled to 73% then pulled all of the minerats/earthshapers/sappers at once
and just no part of that sentence is correct
wary ice
this weeks putting the free back in freehold tbh
rigid eagle
there are so many routes for those dungeons, you never know if ur tank is inbred or 200 iq
wary ice
Atal especially
rigid eagle
freehold bosses tho
wary ice
ML i feel is pretty standard now
or at least it should be
w/ obs theres not a lot of reason to get creative
balmy condor
unpopular opinion but I miss legion m+
wary ice
"Master" assassin
bleak spoke
@balmy condor that’s the opposite of an unpopular opinion
bleak spoke
I never played legion myself but I’ve never had anyone say they prefer bfa m+
balmy condor
every dipshit 3k io I talk to says "oh but bfa dungeons so good very open and many route so pog"
bleak spoke
I think I might only love it because I don’t know any better
wary ice
Although I will say I think as much of a train wreck as bfa has been
bleak spoke
What
rigid eagle
maaaaan legion treated rogues so right
wary ice
M+ has been relatively positive
rigid mango
wary ice
Like theres only 1 shitty dungeon I dont want to run rather than 4
bleak spoke
There’s like 4 dungeons with variable routes
wary ice
That's pretty good
bleak spoke
All the rest of them have incredibly standard routes
Legit the single standout dungeon has been freehold
Incredibly high execution and creativity required in the highest keys and easy and fun on midrange ones
Dungeons should be like freehold
rigid eagle
lol ngl obelisks are fun, but man rogue overall was just so much stronger in legion...
bleak spoke
Obelisks i hate lets beat on 80m cumulative st worth of hp
rigid eagle
i mean im a sin rogue with 0 eb XDDDDD
st burn is my fav
but @wary ice legion rogue was like one of the strongest classes right
rn we're just depressing
balmy condor
we're popping in m+
wary ice
We just odnt do anything to scale stupid with the omega mechanic
rigid eagle
wary ice
So we lose out to smooth brain hunters, demon or otherwise
rigid eagle
we're losing out to like
everything LOL
legit survival and feral are doing better than us in nyalotha
wary ice
Lol @ surv box graph
They really had to include all 20 ppl so itd be statistically relevant
rigid eagle
we're just good in m+ because we can sneak our dh overlords past annoying packs
lol survival actually is pog when u play it right tho
the guy who plays survival in my guild always shits on me when we're farming heroic every week
wary ice
Surv def suffers from a huge degree of whybother
Like if you put aside enjoying the game and just look at like the crunch of it
rigid eagle
we kinda just stand in shit and play every boss like patchwerk and then the guy always beats me by like 5~10k dps
wary ice
Obvs play what u enjoy, but like BMs right there
wary ice
Oof
wary ice
Yeah but like that graph makes a lot of sense over how bfas played
The classes at the tops are the ones that get a lot for literally doubling their favorite stat
Arms discord has periodic discussions on "what do I do when spell queue stops my rotation"
Classes who dont. Benefit so hard from single stats like that are nearer the middle
wary ice
I mean sort of?
I legit only play sub on maut
Cause I'm trying to literally 1 shot myseld
And yeah mast helps a lot but like fuck dude that spec struggles
rigid eagle
lol maybe we should move channels for this
but i genuinely dont know why a SS/evisc spam build wouldnt work with high mastery
like are sub's numbers THAT bad?
wary ice
I think it pulls 100k? Hachadino has been doing that iirc. But yeah not a discussion for here
The point is just that the mast scaling for sub is nothing compared to how much mileage bm gets out of crit
And to loop back to rogue, assassin in particular it only feels like were bad because our scaling isnt as beefy with those single stats, or on procs like with dhs
Tldr. Corruption is a dumb systen
rigid eagle
yeah lol sin is sorta just
barely benefitting
and we already have a whole new playstyle around exped
versed mica
@bleak spoke what's the story behind your discord name? lmao
balmy condor
probably cause outlaw rogues like saying "oh my rolls tho"
tame basin
Guys, how much haste (%) do you have for Exs builds?
balmy condor
sitting in town with 55% I think atm
tame basin
How much do you sim?
tame basin
hmmm, I'm 67% and I'm simming 94,8k atm
balmy condor
haste% isn't everything
tame basin
yea, I think it's time to sim stats values
balmy condor
don't waste your time doing that
balmy condor
stat weights is probably the most useless information you could get out of raidbots
no meme
tame basin
balmy condor
what are you going to do with that information
storm mortar
Haste is everything
balmy condor
storm mortar
Stack expedient as much as possible
rigid eagle
flat haste is nice but i think the bulk of our haste is from procs getting buffed by exped right
we just have high base because we stack so much exped
tame basin
Although my guild does not allow to go over 39 corruption so can't rly fit another expedient
Have 7 exp atm
balmy condor
sounds like they're not confident
tame basin
Well, too many ppl are failing on too much corruption so they've set a rule, don't blame them for that especially on progression bosses (we are on Carpace atm)
balmy condor
yeah if people can't get their act together
tame basin
I also feel that apart of Poisoned Knife / Blind and Cloak, Assasination is not great for Thing from Beyond handling, much less than Outlaw with sweet gouge
balmy condor
I run elusive and feint it
tame basin
Normal Feint is not working for TfB right? I've tried to test it and seems like it's same
I usually use elusive only for Maut, maybe it's time to swap to it as base
fallow breach
I can understand no more than 50 cause tfb starts to hurt
But come on, who wipes because of tfb
Unless your healers are already struggling way too much for no reason
solar flicker
over 40 is just cancer for some fights
idk about cara i just got to him
but drest and ilyg no dispell over 40 is aids
calm lily
guys we are not doing ct with exsang ? just after exsang we start with ct right?
balmy condor
in the opener you CT if the mut after vendetta gives 5cp
if its 6, you rup
don't force CT into the other exsangs
calm lily
ok thanks
balmy condor
np
bleak spoke
@tame basin don’t swap off of cheat for maut, when it procs it’s a huge dr
Like if you cheat and vial you live your exsang
patent topaz
we did 1 healer no phase 2 strat yesterday, was pretty 
bleak spoke
Though really you should be cloaking exsang
Man we had a buyer and there was a bug where 1 phasing could fuck t he loot so we did a reflect
I’m so sad
patent topaz
same
arctic walrus
vision major
patent topaz
we had 2:34 so slightly better
balmy condor
vision major 
patent topaz
I just run vision minor for 1st 3 now
patent topaz
I slipped into the middle on carapace and instadied 
carapace timings are weird now, 2 sets of cds on the boss and 0 damage on cysts in p2
balmy condor
you hold vanish
balmy condor
you're telling me in a 2 min fight
you'd rather vanish with no cd
rather than vision minor and vanish with cds
coarse tusk
no im saying id rather have a 2minute 40 second fight
balmy condor
and the other dps in your raid probably doesn''t
patent topaz
you dont vanish in the opener and save it for 1:30
balmy condor
so tough luck
patent topaz
thats it
balmy condor
if the fight length is short enough
you run vop minor and hold the vanish for 1:30
that's strictly correct
rancid bobcat
nah man just tell your raid to hold dps just enough to extend the fight to your ideal fight time
rancid bobcat
oh yeah we gotta drop all our bm hunters so we can make room for our new trials
wink wink
balmy condor
if I don't know my exact kill time I'd rather take the vop minor
because I know im getting 2 op vanish cds in
honest vessel
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
balmy condor
yeah I'm counting the one from stealth, bad wording
the risk also nets me a chance to get boned cause vanish comes up and the boss is dead in 5 seconds
coarse tusk
well that's why its a risk
balmy condor
not wurf
coarse tusk
you could also have you party members die to exstinguished souls
happens all the time in our raid
balmy condor
sure
tropic burrow
which combo is the best?
balmy condor
combo of what
main forge
5 for 5 was the best combo I thought... 5 roast beef sammiches from arbys
tropic burrow
ive used it
main forge
what was the difference between the two?
tropic burrow
not very accurate when it comes to high end siming
main forge
its a guide. and those two traits aren't high end simming
tropic burrow
DD+NP you go master assassin build, but SS+NP you go subterfuge and it feels like the second one is more forgiving, no?
tropic burrow
oh?
balmy condor
where we have like 250% haste in fights
main forge
NP sucks with the amount of haste and energy when you use it
you lose the energy in timewarp
tropic burrow
okay i did not know that
loud light
"not very accurate when it comes to high end simming" is nonsense when you're asking about single target anyway
main forge
Basically the "bonus it gives, is wasted
sour wraith
Only with the right gear though
tropic burrow
so what do they use? SS+HoD?
loud light
but again, those traits don't sim as well as alternatives once your gear is at that point
balmy condor
yes only with right gear
loud light
so just sim yourself
balmy condor
exactly my point
balmy condor
if we're talking about all this high end nonsense, SS/HoD is great, SS/NP is not, DD/NP is worse
but since we're even considering DD/NP, we're not high end
in which case we have no info
and you should sim
tropic burrow
when i say high end i mean ST build for Nya
main forge
DD/NP is good for when you are gearing up really early
sour wraith
SS/HOD/BBI are what you want for ST with exp stack and high haste
balmy condor
you should sim
sour wraith
That's the high end build
But, as whispyr has been saying, your gear may or may not support that, so simming what you have is your best bet
tropic burrow
yea i currently feel that i dont have enough item for any build
balmy condor
then we cannot help you
tropic burrow
hold on let me link all thats available for me
balmy condor
just link a top gear sim
main forge
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#boss=2335&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination®ion=-1
here is what high end rogues are running on the most single target fight in nya'lotha
tropic burrow
just need to know which ones to farm
ahh nice, thank you
ive been trying to find this rankings
but most were outdated
main forge
but seriously just link a top gear sim, and someone can look at your gear and see what you got, and where to improve
tropic burrow
yea, for some reason worldofwargraphs have been popping alot and they havent updated since december
mighty elm
balmy condor
I've never even heard of that
mighty elm
world of wat now
tropic burrow
pretty new to this whole high end
balmy condor
sounds like the freshest hot garbage webpage to grace the internet
main forge
sounds like a website for the world of warships
mighty elm
main forge
lol
balmy condor
I can't unsee this
main forge
How did he find such a treasure!
mighty elm
worldoflogs is where its at
main forge
warcraftlogs
tropic burrow
since i got a bit of gear and i cant link it properly here it is:
SIMC Babarogo-defiasbrotherhood
balmy condor
this is actually much better than what I thought you would have ngl
tropic burrow
was a drop for a guy not needing it, need to grind the haste one tho i got no gear for aoe for M+ and i do shit dps
main forge
belt is a little low with IS on it
tropic burrow
cant get a decent belt for the ilfe of me
balmy condor
the DS is sketchy too
main forge
gold-tasseted shoulders are decent for AOE dps use echoing blades instead
tropic burrow
gold tasselt are best for AOE no?
for M+
thats another point
i do crappy dps mostly coz i havent gotten rotation down but also coz i cant grind M+ because of low dps
balmy condor
your guild is 6/12M and you can't get help for a key every now and then?
tropic burrow
i get help for a key now and then
but i do less dps than our tank
coz fucker got 2 TD3
and i poke a singletargets
balmy condor
gear wise that's cause your azerite is a mess
playstyle wise idk, you could be playing it wrong too
main forge
are you on defias brotherhood?
tropic burrow
yea
tropic burrow
i have vita 460+Ashvane 445, the sim says they are a lot better
balmy condor
yeah that'll happen
ashvane is a good trinket
not uncommon for it to beat out a couple trinkets 15 ilvl higher
patent topaz
if you are 6/12m are you doing heroic clears? still some good upgrades there
tropic burrow
so is it better to have lower ilvl gear with azerite traits that stack then higher ilvl?
balmy condor
no its a joke
only joke
big kidding
get the traits from the vendor and raids
raden helm is good
tropic burrow
if you are 6/12m are you doing heroic clears? still some good upgrades there
@patent topaz i started last week but just with nzoth. didnt have the curve, i evenwated to buy a boost
balmy condor
goraks is good from vendor
tropic burrow
raden helm is good
@balmy condor havent cleared him yet
balmy condor
not even on heroic?
if you haven't killed him on heroic
you probably shouldn't be worrying about mythic
tropic burrow
we have on hc but the guild isnt doing any runs, we are starting this week
tropic burrow
yea ill have to
fallow breach
also mfw a random pug cleared heroic nzoth in 1 try and my old guild was struggling to do it in 1 night
balmy condor
that's yikes
fallow breach
I still don't get how people aren't clearing heroic without any wipe or like 1 wipe
balmy condor
our guild thought it was a good idea to carry like 6 fresh 120 alts in a 15 man heroic clear
got to nzoth and everyone went full monkey
tropic burrow
any of the gear i can toss away? like the Humming trinket and Breeches of the sacred hall?
main forge
you don't have a lot of gear btw... lol i sold 30 pieces of gear this morning. I'm a pack rat.
balmy condor
honestly don't remember
as you get gear, you'll replace everything
so I wouldn't worry about it
tropic burrow
coz i can get something new if i scrap 2 ilvl 475 items
balmy condor
anything under 460 (except the ashvane)
tropic burrow
got enough titanium residuum
balmy condor
is probably trash
tropic burrow
the DS is sketchy too
@balmy condor what did you mean by that? it was a drop last night
balmy condor
deeper strategm
the talent
it sims higher for you, but you don't have a ton of gear, so I'm on the fence about how good it really is
and its only like 200 dps higher or something iirc
tropic burrow
actually it doesnt sim higher for me but when im running with vigor it feels like i have way more energy than needed and that its wasted
balmy condor
he's mega undergeared tho
idk how good DS is for someone who's like 450 ilvl with bad azerite
ya feel
patent topaz
not very
main forge
yeah this might be better to do DD/NP with TB
the gear is holding him back from moving into something exsang focused
balmy condor
^
shy dust
They died
fallow breach
reminds me of my first mythic maut
shy dust
It makes sense
main forge
oh I couldn't get into it too hard
fallow breach
balmy condor
around 42k while active looks like
main forge
tried to analyze it but failed
balmy condor
rupture uptime is meh
opener is a mess
subt/SS but no pandemic
doesn't vanish ever
is this bugged
tropic burrow
balmy condor
dude what is it with you and awful ring enchants
tropic burrow
this is from last night
balmy condor
where do you even find these
fallow breach
auction house
deft obsidian
lol
fallow breach
kek
deft obsidian
training 2 expacs ago
balmy condor
main forge
lol
tropic burrow
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LyqHGP2zr4kKZvJR/
@tropic burrow this is from last night, finnaly some deccent dps around 54k
"decent"
tropic burrow
ah i can explan that easily
main forge
pot before garrote!
tropic burrow
i fucked up the rotation
main forge
kek
muted jacinth
vanish into nothing?
tropic burrow
vanish into nothing?
@muted jacinth could we a wipe or gotten too much agro so vanished to save my ass
main forge
there is no chance of you pulling aggro
balmy condor
on your xanesh kill, you somehow managed to go 53 seconds between envenoms
muted jacinth
yeah not a chance at pulling aggro
deft obsidian
vanish into nothing?
@muted jacinth 😂
shy dust
You have many rotational issues
muted jacinth
is that first 7s of auto attacking or is that you clipping it past the opener @balmy condor
shy dust
Reading up on the guide again is what you need to do
mighty elm
balmy condor
I don't want to look lano
main forge
I did 200k+ on an opener and mythic tanks don't even flinch
shy dust
Hi @mighty elm
tropic burrow
you mean vanish in an opener?
shy dust
tropic burrow
thats coz master assassin
royal lantern
we are rogues, like, we could do 12351million dps on pull and it would not matter cus we have tricks
mighty elm
balmy condor
why would you
deft obsidian
I'd have a quick read my dude and then slap a dummy for 30 mins. Just getting muscle memory into your rotation, will come much more naturally to you
balmy condor
why would you ever do this
is that a 3cp rupture into a tb window
and then the rupture drops
and you refresh it with a 5cp rupture
main forge
you vanished and then didn't use garrote... which is free dps
tropic burrow
dont have one
royal lantern
but ye, feels like you either dont really know the skill priority, or that you start too panic in fights and do weird/stupid stuff, probably a combination of both, but both can also be fixed
balmy condor
19 envenoms in 3:27
but the rupture uptime is still kinda low
where are these cp going
royal lantern
but ye, go too the pins and read the ravenholdt guid too openers etc...and hit the dummy for like 10-15min and do the opener over and over again
tropic burrow
but ye, feels like you either dont really know the skill priority, or that you start too panic in fights and do weird/stupid stuff, probably a combination of both, but both can also be fixed
@royal lantern that is actually pretty much correct
royal lantern
just too get the muscle memory
main forge
23 seconds into the fight... blowing a healthstone and crimson vial....
definitely shouldn't need that period
royal lantern
about the panic midfight thing,well, thats something you have too fix yourself, spamming skills/cp is not good for rogue
balmy condor
@main forge it gets worse the more you look, just save yourself
royal lantern
you dont NEED too spam stuff on cd
rules of mythic raiding: 1. STAY ALIVE, always the most important thing in the entire fight
nobody cares about your dps if you die 2min into the fight
2: do your job, if there is a moment where you need too use cloak etc...(wich is something that happens quite often for rogue too cheese mechanics/do immunity soaks) you need too keep in mind that panic cloak can wipe the raid cus you dont have it up for the moment then
just listen too your RL(except when he has no clue)
THEN comes the entire class stuff
but ye, hit the dummy too get muscle memory, make yourself more familiar with the opener/cd/tb burst windows
main forge
Cloak is the OHSHIT button, don't use it as the "ignore mechanics" button.
royal lantern
and cant say more then try too stay calm so you dont do stupid skill usage
eh, always deepens on the fight, atleast this raidtier has not many cloak soak things
calm lily
cloak is the " ignore mechanics to do more dps" button
main forge
^
royal lantern
dont say that too people that struggle with more basic things pls
royal lantern
its serious in pvp tbh
drifting cosmos
does it ever got a point where no cheat death = squishy
tropic burrow
cloak is the " ignore mechanics to do more dps" button
@calm lily thats how ive been using it towards the end of the fight mostly or when i know i cant run away then like meh, pop it and do some damage
balmy condor
don't do that, survive first
royal lantern
its xanesh right?
tropic burrow
yea, that was lat night
balmy condor
if you're dying 1:30 into a 4 minute maut kill, please don't try and cheese your cloak
main forge
just step into the puddle clear your stack, step into the puddle when he does annilation
royal lantern
on xanesh i would keep cloak in case you make a positoning mistake/tanks pull the boss too a bad spot and you stand next too your soul that is about too explode
or when you need too walk into black shit too do a emergency interupt
main forge
this is where muscle memory comes into play
royal lantern
ofc cloak too do more dmg is the perfect situation, but on progress killing the boss by doing everything right is more important
calm lily
?
main forge
you don't even have to look at what to cast, just look for where the puddles are dropped
calm lily
if you use cloak to avoidable mechanics its a waste
balmy condor
if you messed up and are going to die to the avoidable mechanic
strictly not a waste
main forge
I agree with that... save cloak for when you make a mistake
tame basin
I'm also using cloak when I'm in my Vendetta window and unavoidable mechanic is targeting me (Cuz: "Oh you've popped your CDs, it would be a waste if you have to run away from the boss now, right?" - Rng)
main forge
also looks like you ran azerite beam on maut... it looks nice and does some damage, but definitely isn't best for that situation.
royal lantern
ye, beam in raids is pretty.....shit
main forge
Cloak is great for say... drestagath and making a tiny puddle
main forge
yes
tame basin
🙂
royal lantern
drestagath has mechanics 
?
sour wraith
That depends on your guilds strat though
royal lantern
i thought the boss is kill trash for 7min, collect loot
tame basin
Beam is not bad on Hive I believe or Vex when you struggle with Adds burst
Especially on second Drones spawn when they heal up if not killed fast enough
But on Maut?
balmy condor
why would you beam on hive when bote is a thing
tame basin
I can only see it as padding if your tanks keeps Elementals stacked
main forge
Blood of the enemy is better with hidden blades, echoing blades.
tame basin
Yea, but then you have to go aoe build
balmy condor
you're losing a lot of single target just by taking beam as well
fallow breach
just ignore the adds, its not your job
balmy condor
blood balances the 2 much nicer
fallow breach
tropic burrow
beam? i had that only on wrathion coz i forgot to swap it out
tame basin
with beam you can go ST with 1 aoe burst, In general I would agree BotE is better, but 4-5ppl use beam on call at the same time you will not gain much value from BotE crit buff
tropic burrow
if your talking about major essence
main forge
yeah... you probably don't need beam even on wrathion
he's on farm and it might increase your dps for that one fight... but lower it for the rest
tropic burrow
nope i fucked up there, beam helps me clear visions a lot easier since i have no aoe build
tame basin
Well, this was what my guild was doing on progress Hive, I'm not saying it's optimal
Just go Vision as Outlaw 😛
main forge
that does probably work... my progression on hive means the adds are all over the place so beam is useless
tame basin
it's easier, just swap before bosses if you struggle with ST
tame basin
I usually do it before Alleria so she dies from bleeds on 5m runs
easier to avoid shit there than as Outlaw
main forge
I think another issue... is you are working on mythic progression, when you probably should be eyeballing heroic clearing
tame basin
that does probably work... my progression on hive means the adds are all over the place so beam is useless
@main forge well, we tried to work on proper stack, now we do it totally differently
tropic burrow
yea i finnaly gotten guild to go hc this week
tame basin
Rly?
fallow breach
mfw
tame basin
@tropic burrow is it rly so hard to get into heroic guild at this far into the patch?
We are like in the 80% of the end of expansion 😮
tropic burrow
no its hard getting ppl who are doing mythic 3 days a week to go heroic on the 4th
balmy condor
his guild is 6/12M
they just apparently don't run heroic
so he gets carried in mythic
patent topaz
3 days a week 6/12
main forge
6/12M and 3 days week...
tropic burrow
efectively 2 days
main forge
one day should be just heroic clear to get everyone else gear.... and its a good training/scouting way for new members into mythic prog
tame basin
Well, we also have 3 days a week 2,5h raids and we are 10/12, but we are late night guild so hard to find good ppl to play at nights
Recently swapped to horde, hopes it will help 😄
main forge
I am considering it >_>
tame basin
Moving to horde or playing late night?
main forge
horde
tame basin
Well, I'm not rly fan of it, since I prefer Alliance but I have to admit player base is so much bigger here that it feels like different game
main forge
alliance raiding is a little silly. i got a horde alt and the LFG for raids is definitely more populated
royal lantern
alliance raiding is dead
tame basin
It's sad actually, when racials were so OP for raiding on Horde, most top guild swapped to it and it stays like that, don't think it will ever change
main forge
even the random ass guild I was in was running more keys. and those were looking better
royal lantern
that comes from a guy that played alliance for years and switched too horde in 8.3
tame basin
I think moderators will get pissed for off-topic, unless we start talking about Assasination raiding on Ally/Horde side 😄
main forge
I'm on sargeras, its not even a dead server... its was one of the best ally raiding servers
tame basin
I was on Silvermoon
royal lantern
offtopic is for memes
fathom swift
depends on your region, oce alli is way more popular
tame basin
Talking about EU
orchid solstice
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4H2y3Brff75yu8t2G2V4d2 - why is WVR simming so high for me but noone runs it and agil is worth nada anymore
main forge
yeah, i have had a bunch of OCE refugees come on board with us
balmy condor
@orchid solstice WVR has always been pretty okay
you're simming with 5 allies as well
so the uptime is high
orchid solstice
yeah but +4k dmg okay
balmy condor
2k according to that sim
orchid solstice
thats what i meant --- xD
tame basin
is Corrupted Gladiator's Medallion better than Plumge?
balmy condor
yeah, but its janky to play around
orchid solstice
same item
mighty elm
well no one else runs it
balmy condor
so its not worth
fathom swift
you need people in your raid still running worldvein minor
if you dont have 5 it wont sim that high
orchid solstice
fair enough
tame basin
It's better to have more than 5 I believe
since not always possible to stack everyone
especially when you have 50 corruption eye to run from it 😄
orchid solstice
hahahaha true
fathom swift
ya I'm just saying 5 cause he simmed it with 5
tame basin
but in real it probably need more than that
balmy condor
cursed sim
orchid solstice
sims hate me they want me to do weird shit
main forge
best part of this channel... Is x or y better? answer-> sim it {} why is x better than y in this sim? [] answer: fuck that sim, sim is trash.
orchid solstice
❤️
main forge
I kid with that... there is more to it, but it happens every day
balmy condor
sims are a guideline afterall
orchid solstice
i knoooooow but im so bad at sims that i dont trust it
mighty elm
i think WV sims high for most
orchid solstice
cause i always prsume i did smth wrong
balmy condor
essences always make for weird interactions
main forge
sims are something that need interpretation and hands on analyzing
balmy condor
essence sims are just cursed bait constantly
we get this stuff constantly
many times a day
orchid solstice
okay so fuck the sims.... what do you guys run
main forge
Typically whats in the pins... BotE, Memory, Iris Breath
main forge
I'm still quite a bit under your gear
balmy condor
good all around
shell atlas
can anyone post an aoe sim for me to have a look?
orchid solstice
i saw raz doing some funny sims where iris dropped off cause of haste levels
shell atlas
sin ofc
mighty elm
formless major blood minor is where its at
balmy condor
@shell atlas what are you trying to get out of it
orchid solstice
for those speed kills
shell atlas
just want to see an example
mighty elm
id use it for 6 of the bosses
shell atlas
to see what to get out of it
calm lily
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/udfqRMKoqskdv4VvSrzGcm idk lucid 400 dps plus
also mastery sims higher than haste looks so weird
tame basin
Btw, if my Exs going to get off cooldown should I refresh Rupture / Garrote early? Like for example having 19s of Rupture and 12 of garrote
balmy condor
always garrote -> 6cp rupture -> exsang