yes
#assassination
tribal obsidian
What setup do you use on carapace?
tropic ocean
for nzoth fight it probably is already superior a lot earlier, despite simming lower due to short boss dps windows
and multitarget
and for carapace I just use full st
ss exsang build
tropic ocean
I dont really see a point to go aoe build in carapace
usually have enough aoe dmg by dh/warr/hunter/mage/lock
dim sail
i dont have much expedient gear though so i feel like 3x shrouded for me isnt good
tropic ocean
and the more boss dmg u have in p3 the easier the fight gets
dim sail
ive tried simming it with full haste gems and enchants and as much haste as i can and the sim i linked above is still the highest sim
tribal obsidian
Im at like 37% haste and DD still sims higher than SS
tribal obsidian
For pure ST
tropic ocean
- until last phase your boss dps windows are 25 sec
so personally I'd just pick whatever does most dmg in 25sec
which for me was exsang 3 ss already during progression before having expedients
dusk void
Does SS give you the damage bonus, regardless of stealth?
tropic ocean
no
dim sail
just from stealth
tropic ocean
only out of stealth
tribal obsidian
But if you can hit 3 targets with it then it gains a lot of traction over DD
Is exa that great on ST raid bosses? Like dots tick down quicker but no extra damage. Or is it just about get the more of the dot duration to stack up with other buffs
wary ice
It also fits most of your garrote into a bote window
tribal obsidian
Is that why some people are forgoing lucid
Because haste + that is too much energy?
scarlet sequoia
forgoing?
tribal obsidian
Ive seen some not using it
tribal obsidian
Yah but that will prob go away with pre patch or something
And then back to low haste at start of xpac
royal lantern
immagine
everyone will have bad stats at the start of a new expac
sin is not as fucked as some other classes/specs
tribal obsidian
Anyone tried breath major on fights like carapace and nzoth for sniping?
tribal obsidian
Compareable to bote then?
tropic ocean
if u snipe harvester or tent
tribal obsidian
What would you use for a minor not bote im guessing
raven mica
So here’s the thing
About sin going from end of expac to start
It’s always super slow.
tribal obsidian
I imagine something like sub would be slow as well though
raven mica
I didn’t notice very much of a difference going from Tomb of sargeras to uldir (antorus was an exception cuz that tier set was so fucking busted you basically had infinite energy)
sage holly
probably get some crit and donw hast and conpens' with iris minor to balanced hast
worldly sandal
cobalt pelican
yep.
sweet rampart
How many expedients are you guys running? Trying to figure out how many i should save up for for when it comes back on the vendor. 7? 8?
lean marten
all of them
faint harness
all the haste
sweet rampart
are we applying it to every piece possible? I don't even know how many pieces you can apply it to
faint harness
9
sweet rampart
i don't like being above 60 corruption in raids lol, it is scary
faint harness
you cannot play 9x tier 3 expedient tho
opal imp
I'm at the point where DS is pulling ahead of Vigor. but i'm having problems keeping a good EP train going with finishers. is this normal? with vigor i get a lot more benefit from EP on my finishers it seems
raven mica
More important to get ur mutilates in during the EP window than chaining it
sweet rampart
@faint harness is it best to mix and match some exp 1s and 2s with 3s?
raven mica
Specially if ur running DD
faint harness
@sweet rampart whatever sims the best
opal imp
@raven mica i get 2 muti's in no problem, but i thought the 10% to envenoms would be a big deal. i have 2 DD
shrewd night
Optimally you want 7 t3 1 t2 1t1 to maximize corruption budget
But uuh
Good luck on vendor
sweet rampart
i am not expecting expedient back on the vendor till july
sweet rampart
hey if i expect the worst only positives will happen
tribal obsidian
Isnt rotation only a month
grave eagle
How do you deal with all that haste during lust? I can't keep up with the gcds
shrewd night
Push buttons harder
tribal obsidian
Click it off
sweet rampart
i thought yes expedient itself will be back monthly, but that doesn't mean it will be expedient 3 everytime, but maybe i is wrong.
faint harness
you cant press it faster
cus we're 1 sec gcd no matter what right
sooo
i think he means
energy
sweet rampart
makes me a little sad taht i missed exp 3 lol, i was not prepared for it at all since i just recently came back
tribal obsidian
It was first set anyway
faint harness
its sad cus i was cucked for getting ripple in space early:)
tribal obsidian
So now much you could prepare for
jovial spear
Just grind 45k echoes and you are prepared for the next round 🙂
tribal obsidian
Im at around 20k I think
sweet rampart
watch the next expedient is just t1 lol
tribal obsidian
But i want some outlaw ones too
red bloom
I’m glad I got my slappy boys and TD through the course of the patch, all echos go to expedients
tribal obsidian
Do you need slappy bois though?
Or you mean just to bridge the gap to high haste build
red bloom
You don’t need anything for outlaw, anything is just nice
tribal obsidian
I never had luck with TD
But reading severe and strikethrough are good
I have a lot of severe
red bloom
If I don’t run 30%, I can’t keep up with the others in my group... not even close
red bloom
That goes for sin too though, TD has a higher highs but lower lows, severe and strike through are solid and consistent
Twilight dev for M+ at least @worldly sandal
worldly sandal
ah gotcha
thats a lot of TD though
im doing well with just TD
TD2*
unless im completely misunderstanding what youre saying
red bloom
My mate I run keys with runs 30% as well as a DH so procs A LOT so I just match him cause can’t have the sap beating me on the add pad cause I’ll never hear the end of it 😂 100+k overalls are nice too
It’s all personal preference though 🙂
worldly sandal
ah gotcha yeah. im floating around 60-65k overall right now, but i dont have anyone to run keys with that i trust going over 40 corruption
and i switched mains in the middle of the expac so im far behind on corruption resist
cobalt pelican
yeet
mild star
does anyone know what rings are bis for haste stack SS in raid?
west cove
when playing with exang sometimes i cant apply new dots for like 2-3 gcds. is it normal?
red bloom
I like my mechagon ring set
urban minnow
Do y’all run 59 corruption in mythic+ too?
rose sapphire
cobalt pelican
sharing phoney images is uncool
vestal wren
pls keep the meme posts to a minimum i the spec channels
raven mica
Hey look he got jebaited too.
arctic walrus
Like do people even check a calendar
faint harness
pseudo hamlet
Do I use potion that is in my QuickSim? I mean, it shows Focused Resolve instead of Unbridled Fury. It's right?
cobalt pelican
quicksim always uses focused resolve unless you change it
west cove
how do you change advanced sim or?
hoary acorn
is troll no? @rose sapphire
lean marten
its a troll
pseudo hamlet
quicksim always uses focused resolve unless you change it
@cobalt pelican thanks! Just did it and it shows slighty more DPS with the unbridled fury potion. Thought that "Let sim decide" would be the best option.
cobalt pelican
either advanced sim or the dropdowns 1 by 1 are fine stabb
west cove
yeah i totally forgot the option since its always let sim decide for me lol
cobalt pelican
generally you only ever have to check unbridled and focused resolve
i've not seen a profile this tier agility is relevant for
but if you're simming multiple fight types (3t patchwerk for something?) i guess maybe agi too
pseudo hamlet
@tropic ocean had no idea about this. Thank you! It's very useful. 🙂
wet ruin
can we pin this somewhere
frosty talon
you paste this in raidbots after you paste your simc from in game or i missunderstand it?
tropic ocean
yeah
tepid tundra
What’s this exsang haste build being punted around? Is there a breakpoint where haste makes exsang better than TB?
vestal dagger
I’m not sure about the break point, but it started happening for me somewhere around 45% base haste iirc. TB still sims very close.
remote lagoon
!bis
vestal dagger
You should throw in Deeper Strategem too
lime edge
You also need to sim it with SS traits
tepid tundra
Guessing it’s a ST spec? Mostly doing m+
Sims still telling me to push crit
Sitting at 48%
keen dome
one SS trait + Deeper Stratagem + Exsang, and yeah Patchwerk
red bloom
49% + DS and TB still sims near 6k higher, but suppose cause my azerite is shite
dapper radish
If Expedient is our generally preferred corruption, am I correct in interpreting that we want to maximize haste on all pieces where ever possible and we don't ever reach a point where haste's value diminishes below another secondary stat for us, for ST?
tribal obsidian
Naturally the sim will prefer haste pieces if you have expedients
raw pecan
Hey 🙂 I would like to ask for a professional check on my assa raid build. I am running 3x Double Dose, 1x Nothing Personal and 2x Heart of Darkness. My stats are: 1876 crit (36%), 2661 haste (40%), 1107 mastery (40%), 546 vers (6%). Corruptions: Expedient 3, Expedient 2, Expedient 1, Twisted Appendage 3 and Twisted Appendage 2. Anything worht changing stat&trait-wise?
burnt nimbus
At what haste lvls do the SS build start becoming betteR?
tribal obsidian
Probably mid 40's ST but if you can get in some multi target then maybe lower
burnt nimbus
thx, also i should be simming some versions of cleave add/2 boss patchwerk i assume?
red bloom
This hasn’t been my experience, but that’s for my character since everyone is going to have different stuff
burnt nimbus
true, but there is like 2/12 ST bosses
red bloom
The way I approached this tier is, I play sin to go ham on the boss, if add pad was needed, I went outlaw or stacked up some EB set which I don’t really have but yea, every raid is going to have different needs
burnt nimbus
The reason im asking is cuz Sin starts simming better and better for me when going cleave add etc
tribal obsidian
Take for example raden. You can vanish on first add and get a double boosted garrote
red bloom
^ yea, that’s the extent of my sin cleave atm
burnt nimbus
Exactly, and thats why i was asking how ppl were simming since there is some value in cleave this tier
tribal obsidian
Or on wrathion get 3 garrotes on the spikes
burnt nimbus
well there is cleave value on 10/12 bosses
lime edge
That many?
red bloom
My best gear atm is to run NP VoP and get lucky = sometimes I look like a mage
My guild is a load of DH add pad , mages, hunters and locks so I’m focusing on boss damage
burnt nimbus
Wrathion spikes, skitra Psyche add, Xanesh fear add, Hivemind 2 bosses + prio adds, drest mutiple adds that needs to die, ilgy also got adds that needs to die, same for vex and raden. Cara got cysts and nzoth got like Harvesters/other adds
tribal obsidian
Man i haven't had a sim tell me to use nothing personal ever
red bloom
Try adding VoP major
red bloom
Vop major and 3x NP
tribal obsidian
I saw some running that but thought it was feelcraft
Have you actually seen a sim with that being high
red bloom
It’s a bit cheesy and doesn’t feel great since my dmg looks SICK on some pulls but if it doesn’t proc much at all, still decent damage but nothing to write home about
red bloom
I’m only running expedients and a mind flay stil I can get some more, good bit of mastery and a bit of crit too
tribal obsidian
My highest at the moment is r4 stars with r5 exp r2 severe
I assume with some more exp and lower kill times should push stars out
red bloom
Sims do love it though bud, damn those sim’s rng
But in response to you asking about sims, I’m at 93k atm with NP
arctic cloud
Is it worth as a sin, getting the JY and WS rings?
the behind the target and haste one if im stacking the 12% haste corruption. i presume it is
red bloom
@arctic cloud I’m liking mine and a lot of the sims I’m seeing, so do others
arctic cloud
Decent, thanks
long portal
Those rings are very worth 👌
young dawn
Hey Guys,
In all Guides and on Logs I have seen that the best Rogues are using the Blood for the enemy essence. I would just raid on heroic. And I‘m a completely PvP noob. Therefore I‘m pretty sure that I won‘t get the essence on Level 3. Is it also a must have if I‘m just raiding on HC?
keen dome
@young dawn Condensed Life Force & Breath of the Dying are both very good as major essences.
scarlet sequoia
@crimson palm dont need to feint
just stand in it
run to wherever he goes
cloak end of the cast
safe
young dawn
@keen dome Thank for your reply. 👍 I‘ve both essences. 🙂
scarlet sequoia
just gotta do dps
hot flume
Hi folks. Did you get to a point of haste where raidbots advise you to gem for mastery instead of haste with the 3xSS exsanguinate build ? Got 3k haste flat plus vita and galecaller boon as trinkets
crimson palm
"unless ure allowed to pad"
scarlet sequoia
yes akren
there is a point
try replacing lucid minor with formless void
should make u go haste again and be better
scarlet sequoia
u dont know his haste do u
hot flume
Oh okay will try that. And I feel like it's not worth playing with focused energy on nzoth mythic
too much downtime and target switching
west cove
should i hold my vendetta vanish and exang after the initial opener garrote falls so vendetta and vanish lines up or?
last crown
what sorta haste levels are people hitting when you start dropping lucid for formless
distant lava
@west cove no
what you do is use exsanguinate on cooldown and hold vendetta for the 4th exsanguinate
and when you do that vanish and vendetta are up for it
west cove
okay makes sense
dark niche
when do u pop CLF with exsan opener? right after vendetta?
crimson palm
before and let it stack to 5
oh opener
nvm
it bugs out on openers if you use during prepull
before vendetta
dark niche
condensed life force essence
unkempt spade
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4qjHVAY75TUNk25nnn1AGJ 2x rank 3 expe 1 x rank 2 1x rank 1 3xgw 1 x rank2 severe my best sim for now.Total corruption 35
slow tulip
playing the SS build
i was wondering if you use exsang > bote or bote > exsang
he's actually using bote > exsang
strange python
@raw pecan Sim it?
Stats and traits are 100% simmable
And then apply some common Sense
honest basin
Doesn't make sense to BotE before Exsang. A good Exsang will have your DoTs running for more than 10s, so if you do Exsang > BotE you gett full value from BotE while if you use it before you will miss on one tic or two, depending on your haste.
slow tulip
kinda tought the same
but now looking at him im not 100% sure
its not a big diff anyways but
for min max reasons
im curious bout this
scarlet sequoia
arent u the same guy that took musclebrah seriously
slow tulip
yes
slow tulip
is perfecto not a good player too now :?D
hot flume
maybe i need 2 more expedient i guess
scarlet sequoia
perfecto is fine sure, but just because he does something does not mean its the correct thing to do
slow tulip
i agree
patent topaz
I mean he uses TB after bote as well so 🤷♂️
slow tulip
is there like a way to sim those differences somehow
or ?
wont be much of a diff for sure but still
kinda curious
patent topaz
probably not huge but still, if you do the thinking its not hard
slow tulip
yep
distant lava
I mean TB before or after was debatable
exsang is just a dead gcd
no way you're pressing that during the bonus crit dmg window
distant lava
iirc it was TB after bote being less random
slow tulip
i see
wet ruin
I am assuming he is paying exsang cuz of shorter kill times
I doubt its simming better than normal build with only 3 expedients
tropic ocean
@slow tulip good players also often do things for their own convenience
even when its a small dps loss
e.g. many just sticked with master assassin for a long time despite subterfuge already outsimming it
red bloom
perfecto is litterally the Wõrstplâÿêr
slow tulip
@tropic ocean makes sense
hazy flame
does expedience stack with BL?
turbid osprey
yo does coral work normally on ilg?
will my stacks stay on him when he goes under during organ phase? or do i get the crit then?
sharp wigeon
anyone has a link to a guide for the 3xShrouded Suffocation build?
civic wave
guys, sorry for the question (probably asked a lot of times here) is strike through any good for assa for any pve scenario? thanks for the answers in advance
drifting cloud
its ok, just not bis
last crown
BoTE farming recommendations?
because holy shit alliance cant win BGs
and 30 min horde queues blow
vital haven
comp stomp
last crown
no one i know plays the trash pvp in this game anymore and already has their bote
ember mural
horde usually win epic BGs, can try queueing for those
WSG brawl is fast and i think you get honor for capping flags, lots of flags to cap
lean marten
imagine being mad about random BGs
rancid obsidian
How good is galecallers?Got one myself.
last crown
no ones mad about random bgs. i dont want to grind forever or sit in queues forever.
rancid obsidian
Do it during the PvE Brawl
Instant q's and easy stomps
did it on 2 evenings semi afk
steep obsidian
i wouldnt use galecallers if someone paid me
at least on anything other then maybe maut
lone junco
@rancid obsidian gc is good haste but hard to use. You often want to run out of the circle.
Its probably really horrible with the corruption circles overlapping with boss mechanics.
steep obsidian
maybe
delicate bone
Took me 2 days to get bote... on alliance... not too hard tbh
steep obsidian
i tried to use it for a little bit in early ulduar
delicate bone
Just have to play lol, no point in complaining if you can change it
last crown
isnt GC just not that much better than a higher level vita, deadeye, or coral anyways?
lone junco
Yeah. I had it early bfa and the circle was about 75% the size.
rancid obsidian
How good is coral in relation?(Do you need to get a big Titanforge to use it?Is it worth farming?)
delicate bone
I still use my 430 coral, it’s better@than most other options
gleaming cosmos
hello everyone ive been reading a lot about the debate of IS procs vs exp/severe or stats base corruption ,my question is how do i analyze my sims,because so far IS build always sim higher than when i use TA/exp/severe ,and ive watched dratnos video and he says too that IS is bad so how do i sims and get the best with following the IS path top gear tells me ? thank you 🙂
steep obsidian
is has insane variance it can proc 3 x on the pull or not for 2 minutes
and its much worse for multiple targets then st
delicate bone
The biggest issue for IS isn’t the proc rate
rancid obsidian
Prob with IS is that a lot need to go well for it to work, with anything that isn't a pure singeltarget patchwork you lose dps quiet easily.
loud brook
delicate bone
If you add any other targets, even one add, then IS has 50% to proc into the other add
loud brook
delicate bone
Lol that image is fake
trim haven
for world-pvp, what gems should i stack ?
delicate bone
Lolol I saw someone post it earlier and said it was fake so I’m not 100% sure but I think it’s fake 😦
loud brook
no you're right
just saw the disc i got it from say it's fake
reading is hard
im dum dum
trim haven
anyone ?
steep obsidian
they dont care about balancing at the end of an expac
if you are op you get to enjoy it for a while
rancid obsidian
Right thats why they nerfed GW
Becaus they don't care. (Don't say this is real thou)
loud brook
I figured they did that so everyone didn't just stack that
rancid obsidian
If they are gonna change something it will happen in the next few weeks.
steep obsidian
i don tknow why they nerfed gw but mages with mastery corrption and hunters with severe are much more op
it would be dumb to change it now just let people be op
then again nothing blizzard does has to make sense
but in my experience they don't haev a problem when specific classes scale insanely at the end of an expac or care about it
loud brook
I think it'd be more like monks, dks, and some of the dot based ranged specs would be just running that
echo haven
I did not understand if is better a build based on GW or on Severe for pve
Could anyone explain to me please
loud brook
for sin, I think you're supposed to go expedient
unless you go m+, then a mix between severe and expedients are good to have
since crit for eb is so valuable
rancid obsidian
Well a full set of GW could pretty much oneshot anything in pvp.
Highlevel Arena was unplayable if you couldn't invest Millions in Gear.
And even in Pve it isn't nice when 80% of your dmg is from a corruption that needs pretty much no interaction
hazy flame
maybe a dumb question but does expedience fall of at some point
could masterfull maybe be better at some point
or honed mind
just to weave in 1 corruption or 2
scarlet sequoia
with ideal gear and everything at max cloak resist bis corruption should be 7x r3 expedient, 1 r2 expedient and 1 honed mind r3
rancid bobcat
u got your sim links raz?
scarlet sequoia
warm parcel
why not just use top gear
worthy plaza
quasi pewter
hot coyote
wet ruin
you link his stream and he gets summoned 
deep meteor
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
loud brook
if you're getting a full mc during each ilg phase, vendetta should be up every time he pops up
if you're not, then vop minor could be worth for more boss damage on second phase, but idk. Conflict and strife and lucid are really juicy
lean harbor
not played sin since uldir and im looking at the guide so i can learn it again
why do we do our opener with a 3 CP rupture?
loud brook
shrouded suffocation provides 3 combo points for the empowered garrote
lean harbor
i remember in uldir it was something like garrote rupture garrote garrote rupture
loud brook
you only have enough to fit 3 globals in your subterfuge window
lean harbor
ah aye
loud brook
no matter how much haste you got it'll always be 3 globals as far as I know
lean harbor
so we just go with 3 CP for first rupture then?
raw pecan
what do you guys think about honed mind (mastery proc) ?
quasi pewter
its not bad
raw pecan
what about stacking two?
its 1830 mastery on proc
i've noticed its around 30% uptime
quasi pewter
stacking doesnt change how good it is 😄
fleet anchor
Racing Pulse is generally better
raw pecan
racing pulse 3 + honed mind 3 ?
quasi pewter
honed mind used to sim better but it depends on whether you have alot of expedient
then racing pulse becomes better i guess
fleet anchor
Honed Mind is not terrible but really if you are running Expedient you get more value stat-wise out of the multipliers
raw pecan
yeah but I dont have much expedients
fleet anchor
Just sim it 🙂
raw pecan
only 1x 3 1x 2 and 1x1
quasi pewter
you should just sim
loud brook
yes, the cp spent on rupture just effects duration, not damage so just renew your rupture after your toxic blade has ticked off @lean harbor
fleet anchor
It's better if it's better, it's hard to say without knowing exactly what your stats are
raw pecan
patchwerk 6 minutes?
quasi pewter
5 min sim is the "norm"
shouldnt make a difference if you compare most corruptions though
quasi pewter
apart from infinite stars maybe which gets better on longer fights
outer moon
My sim is guiding me towards a 3x NP, 2x DD, 1x HoD build, focusing on crit and haste. I know it's just because of my available corruptions and gear, and I'm not doubting the sim in terms of DPS, but I'm wondering if anyone has seen/played this type of build? If so, is it fun? Does it feel decent?
outer moon
Yeah, that's what I'm getting as well. I do find it odd that it would pick 2x DD 1x HoD over 3x DD.
raw pecan
hod is nice and 2 dd is still ok
outer moon
Yeah. I was running a different version with 3 np a few weeks ago, and on a 4.5 minute shadhar kill, did not proc ONCE
I was salty asf
north ibex
I got a question for M+, I should just stack as many severes as I can right?
tropic ocean
no
you want as much severe so u can proc 5 echoing all the time
then stack crit dmg
sim multitarget and raidbots and see, highly varies due to target count
north ibex
i currently run 2 severe 2's right now and I have base 42% crit
raw pecan
does anyone know if gushing wounds ticks faster based on haste?
north ibex
sim's telling me to run one more severe 2, and im so tempted to purchase one more
how do I stack crit dmg
balmy condor
strikethrough = crit damage
north ibex
oh damn forgot bt that
outer moon
Speaking of severe.. Say I actually like the NP/DD crit/haste build.. Is there a way to push that higher? I'm simming 85k, but I see a lot of people surpassing that. Is the SS/expedient build the only way to push into that range?
balmy condor
the standard tb build is only a little behind
fleet anchor
@outer moon it is somewhat true that you can get pigeonholed into certain setups
Based on talent/gear/essence
balmy condor
I don't know much about super high end triple NP
but I would assume a similar corruption stacking would work out decently
fleet anchor
Without simming 305 bajillion combinations on Raidbots it can sometimes take multiple steps to transition between setups 😦
The current dependencies are pretty difficult to navigate at times
balmy condor
you won't see the same crazy bajillion damages op poggers look at my sim
but its whatever
outer moon
I'll look at it.. I like the idea because sev/str works for my outlaw m+ build, and it'd be nice to not have to farm 400k echoes.
fleet anchor
I think I took like 5 top gear steps myself to navigate out of my crit setup to a build where Expedient started getting big gains
It's really tricky
vital haven
it took me cleansing my tendie daggers
fleet anchor
Unfortunately the top end of the crit setup is not nearly as high as Haste
vital haven
PepeHands
outer moon
Yeah, I'm on my 4th iteration just to make sure I'm not missing something.
fleet anchor
I investigated that a while ago and the top top Crit setup is about 6k below the top top Haste setup
So while it's not a "dead end"
It's definitely like.. a bit of non-optimal path to go down
What Nairda mentioned is true too
Too many TA ranks can make the Haste setup not pop out
Since TA is not hasted at all
outer moon
If 6k lower is still above 90k, and I enjoy the playstyle, I don't think I'd be gimping my group terribly by running it. I'm afraid to go haste because it seems to excel on short fights which.. we don't have.
fleet anchor
I mean the Haste route when you optimize for it is just straight better pretty much all the time
But it takes a while to get there
outer moon
Yeah, it's a lot of expedient
fleet anchor
I had to get like Expedient 12+ range for it to start popping out
outer moon
Luckily I have 2 rank IIIs already, so it gives me time to get some better pieces for it.
I'm guessing at the top end, running a shrouded/expedient build, the focus would be haste/mastery, in a perfect setup?
north ibex
damn im pretty sad i didnt get to buy those expedient 3's
vital haven
its a process
north ibex
stacking those expedient2's arent that bad too right
vital haven
i said earlier im seeing people try to force the exsang/expedient build
fleet anchor
I did find an interesting bug on a recent log for the NP build that I need to look into
Seems like if VoP procs after hardcasting Vendetta it can truncate the energy regen personal buff
outer moon
Yeah, I'm not rushing into expedient :P it's tricky
fleet anchor
Rather than extend it
vital haven
thank god the vop build didnt take off btw
outer moon
Huh, that would suck
fleet anchor
Some people are still running 3x NP/VoP, I'm sure the numbers are roughly competitive
But I don't think I could stand to play such an RNG build
Enough RNG in the game already 😦
outer moon
I'm gonna try it tonight for Drest prog
vital haven
ye its competitive
but if its started overtaking other builds
idk what i would do lmao
fleet anchor
But yeah I need to test if that happens every time
Or just for multi target
Since I saw it in a N'zoth log today
Where the NP proc on the 2nd target there ended up causing the personal buff to only last 7s
Instead of the full duration
This is really really annoying to test though lol
vital haven
hmmm
outer moon
I suppose if it weren't RNG it would be broken. Imagine if there was a way to remotely track VoP? You could hold (within reason) on TB for a proc and do some disgusting shit.
vital haven
is vendetta with NP the only Vop proc where its a debuff on the target but also a buff you get
that is tied with the debuff
fleet anchor
Yeah my guess is that this is a multi-target issue
And when the Vendetta is removed from the 2nd target it removes the buff on you
vital haven
ye
fleet anchor
So it should be quite rare
I just need to confirm the behavior
It's definitely a strange mechanic considering VoP can proc on secondary targets lol
Curious how many Vendettas is the max that people have gotten up at the same time 😄
vital haven
lol
raw pecan
I am thinking on changing race on my rogue. I am goblin atm. Whats best in your opinion - troll or blood elf?
or maybe should I stay goblin and save 25 euro?
faint harness
i think the difference is so small
vital haven
blood elf is good for m+
vital haven
troll racial is pretty good especially with all the haste stacking
but really if you like goblin stay goblin
faint harness
vulpera 
raw pecan
slow tulip
raw pecan
1% haste for goblin vs 15% haste for 10s with 3 min cooldown for troll
berserking every third vendetta playing bote major + vop minor
raw pecan
alliance ewww
rigid eagle
horde as a faction gives me crippling depression
twice a leader almost dealt with alliance for good
twice the underlings betray their leader because they're not winning "honorably"
like bruuuh it's war just take the W and be happy already
sturdy mesa
Eyo what does HoD stand for again?
strange python
heart of darkness
sturdy mesa
Gotchu
lime edge
im so glad that only 1 of the 3 azerite pieces are from vendor
the bis ones
for st
would be rlly annoying having to save 60k resid
agile spire
If i sim my char with bis corruption, Raidbots always tells me that toxic blade is better then exan and that i shouldnt stack SS traits,yet every Assa rogue on Warcraft logs is playing that build, is the APL just not optimized for that build or am i doing something wrong
faint harness
Gear perhaps
lime edge
yea
faint harness
Your gear
agile spire
sec
this sim isnt with BiS corruption,only got 2x exp and have to use filler corruption
i have 3,2k haste baseline
agile spire
what should i change there
agile spire
clf major?
agile spire
clf only increases my dmg by 500
lime edge
if i could get ur sim data, i could try simming for u
agile spire
dmd you my simc @lime edge
lime edge
ye
normal sphinx
Do you guys have the link that changes all your corruptions in your SIMC string?
astral tiger
When is it worth it to multi dot? I'm thinking specifically Ra-den if it's worth it to keep it up on both of the adds and ra-den or if I should just focus on keeping them up on one add and then ra-den. Or if it's just a waste of time in general given how quickly the add dies
vast forum
worth multidotting adds that live the full bleed duration
on raden, definitely worth multidotting
astral tiger
Aight ty
lime edge
worth rerolling vita/unguent, hmm
oh wait gibbering maw too
goddamn, raden is stacked
vapid scarab
yeah you really want that unguent for #assassination
scarlet sequoia
no
cobalt pelican
if your guild sucks the pp probably
drones die in like 3 seconds if anyone is dealing damage
distant ridge
@scarlet sequoia why not
scarlet sequoia
cus youre not there to do that damage
distant ridge
@scarlet sequoia so 3x SS with clf?
scarlet sequoia
3x ss with blood
scarlet sequoia
clf is sim bait
distant ridge
always bote?
scarlet sequoia
ye
scarlet sequoia
sim it
lime edge
stars lul
distant ridge
i actually dont like it
one more thing, where do u usually use exsanguinate on rota?
because im used into DD build with toxic
outer moon
DD/NP Toxic and Subterfuge.. Garrote > Mut > Rup > Vend > TB, then kick off the normal rotation?
fallen bone
anyone else seeing sims stack mastery? just honed mind everything lol
last crown
only getting 20% uptime on formless is a rip
cobalt pelican
just don't play it unless your tanks are playing flame tbh
tiny sierra
what is opener with bote? use it right after exsang?
last crown
can someone triage why my damage is so much lower than it sims on a fight like maut? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1aRt4mXBLWDH6jnV#fight=4
spark rampart
so for sin the stat prio changes on if im raiding or m+
if i do an equal number of both, what is my stat prio
woeful minnow
you get two gearsets
vast forum
@last crown first, you're legally obliged to namechange
i'll look more into your log now
cobalt pelican
desyncing vanish vend, randomly doing cringe shit like exsanguinating then vanish garroting 1 gcd later
last crown
it was either this or Ghuwun
spark rampart
@woeful minnow okay but if i dont have 2 gear sets
spark rampart
vast forum
@last crown use vanish right after first garrote expires, not a normal garrote first
spark rampart
can you guys look at my sim and tell me what i should be working on / change
last crown
youre supposed to normal garrote before vanishing? and let it tick down to pandemic, or immediately overwrite it?
cobalt pelican
🙈
looks like you'd benefit a lot from an empowered bleed tracker or something for now
last crown
yeah i played that pull like trash
lone junco
Yeah. Years ago i rememer going a garrote, vendetta vanish. But garrote was on cookdown and i had to jusy sit there stealthed. Sad
lime edge
whats normal uptime of garrote on drest
last crown
there was another pull i played less garbage and was better and dps was still ~10k lower than sim would imply
spark rampart
can you guys look at my sim and tell me what i should be working on / change
cobalt pelican
sim is a mean of 100k pulls
lime edge
drest is a weird fight
cobalt pelican
or whatever iterations you run
there are a ton of iterations in that sim that are 70k
and a ton that are 90k
generally desyncing vanish vend and your 2nd pot is a p big dps loss
lone junco
@spark rampart dont need to change your sim if you waste your vanish garrote.
last crown
so i hold second vend for vanish to come back up?
cobalt pelican
looks like you're not really thinking about how to proc your bit band at all so i'd suggest getting the from b ehind one
spark rampart
@lone junco what?
cobalt pelican
yes, unless the boss will literally die before your vanish is up
last crown
yeah i havent gotten from behind yet, i swapped back to a exped 3 ring
cobalt pelican
you're pretty free to refresh rupture on 4 aswell if it's not your preexsang rupture
spark rampart
noobe those arent mine, Im asking help with my gear n stuff
lone junco
Oh good.
cobalt pelican
is this supposed to be an m+ gear set or
kinda just weird, you have eb on your helm but raid essences
spark rampart
not at the level where im making sets for m+ or raiding yet
this is the first time that ive seriously gotten into the game
my guild is 12/12 ez but im tryna get into some m raiding
and i just started doing 15+ keys
cobalt pelican
azerite globules is the poopoo too
spark rampart
okay
cobalt pelican
let's see
lone junco
Do you have a fight log for shad? So they can look at your rotation?
spark rampart
btw, my guild hasnt parsed any fights in months
no, sorry, the last time my guild parsed any fights was when I was like 465 and pretty shit
im using the MA build with mut rup mut gar and then ven CLF tf vanish envenom
golden briar
Anyone have a good empowered bleed weak aura?
spark rampart
tb*
lone junco
Can log for yourself.
cobalt pelican
i ended up using luxthos exsang logic weakaura and making it work for my own home made scuffed weakauras
spark rampart
Yeah I need to start doing that soon
cobalt pelican
nothing works for rupture for some reason
spark rampart
but in terms of gear, etc, anything I should be going for / working on
been stuck at 70k for weeks
lone junco
If you are performing within 10% of the sim, then you are on the right page. But if you cant, then thats where to start. Instead of obsessing ovee the gear itself.
cobalt pelican
you have better gear in your bags like
spark rampart
im at like 55-60k dps on shad fights
cobalt pelican
your helm not having eb is
a decent gain
generally you could get some big upgrades
if you buy some corruption from the vendor
like yours are.. not hot
spark rampart
yeah i know
still running weekly cara for my second dagger
and waiting for strikethru
whats EB?
last crown
@cobalt pelican alright so wait - after the pull-garrote, i do a non-vanish garrote, and let that tick down? or immediately replace it with vanish 2x garrote
cobalt pelican
echoing blades
cobalt pelican
no, like yoppa said
last crown
i was under the impression that the second the pull-garrote drops i vanish double garrote for max duration
cobalt pelican
basically you open a big garrote, exsang it out
then vanish and apply 2 garrotes inside subterfuge
the first reapplies it at 18 seconds, the second gives you the pandemic
last crown
right
cobalt pelican
you don't wait for a non-empwoered one
golden briar
Do you always double garrote after each vanish?
spark rampart
fairy should I switch to the subterfuge build? Or is MA still the best?
lime edge
sim
spark rampart
kk
lone junco
Subterfuge ss is nice to play because you can cleave open with the same gear.
DD ma is good though.
spark rampart
DD?
lime edge
double dose
spark rampart
If i only have 1 az piece with DD
and I could have 3 with shrouded
should I go for the subterfuge build
verbal sparrow
garrote [something] garrote, because if you just use it twice without any spell between, it won't get that extra tick
I usually just go for Garrote Envenom Garrote when I'm reapplying it
golden briar
Sweet thanks that was what I was looking for
cobalt pelican
subterfuge and ma are like
interchangable for your gear
but you might aswel lget used to subterfuge
while you can
cause it's only going to get better from there
and you only need to double if your garrote has expired
otherwise you can just renew an existing garrote
the goal is just to end with a 23.4second empowered garrote
spark rampart
okay so for subterfuge how does the playstyle work?
cus then i might switch
and what corruptions should i be going for
cobalt pelican
considering in your gear shrouded isn't that hot, it's basically the same
fleet anchor
Since we've had a bunch of questions about the Expedient + Exsanguinate build, @scarlet sequoia was kind enough to write a guide on the topic.
Please reference this if you want to quickly get up to speed on details about the build and rotation:
https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-exsanguinate/
cobalt pelican
the opener changes slightly, which are all in the guide anyway
golden briar
If you renew a garrote with a subterfuge garrote, does the new duration get empowered?
cobalt pelican
yes
verbal sparrow
basically my opener is G Rup G Rup Vend(+trinket=plumage) Exsang Blood of the enemy, then just do basic rotation, and when I see my garrote falling off, I vanish garrote envenom garrote. I found it like the best option but it's possible I'm wrong who knows
golden briar
Gonna check the guide out thanks!
verbal sparrow
oh I was looking at the guide now and that rotation I wrote is basically the same like on the guide
mossy valve
Has anyone figured out bis corruptions for m+?
Specifically non EB build, I only have SS pieces
verbal sparrow
I think the Expedient is versatile even in m+ not just in raids
lime edge
i got no loot from this heroic run
what is this
actually tahts a lie
eh
used reroll on raden and carapace, riperino
mossy valve
I thought people were saying it wasn’t good for m+ so I saved my echoes lol rip
verbal sparrow
That's good, I'm still slacking with HC raden helm and trying to sneak out in our R1 group in my guild to yoink the loot and possibly to stay there. 😅
mossy valve
Not on my rogue I just tank mythic and take my rogue to our heroic alt runs
lime edge
this is a good piece for exsang build, right?
mossy valve
But mythic plus is fun to fuck around on
verbal sparrow
It's optional @lime edge
verbal sparrow
for exsang build ofc
Koliyama pinned the guide, you can check what's bis or alternative for exsang build
spark rampart
so for the exsang build
what is my first vanish used for
like I know its for once my first gar expires
but then what?
gar envenom gar?
scarlet sequoia
yes
lone junco
Glad to see exang back in business. 😍
last crown
without crucifying me for not stealthing on the pull (real high and wasnt paying attention to timer), can someone take alook at this and see if its better? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tY1dZ98BaLjcDPyN#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=24
spark rampart
so whats the whole thing about your buffs being at max for exsang?
am I using it on cd unconditionally, or should my dots be recently refreshed
so now that Im using SS build, can someone point me to some item / corruptions / things to go for
to keep boostin my damage
I know I need more Expedient, but Ill keep waiting for it
last crown
skitra logs are gigabroken, right?
woeful minnow
I'm pretty sure you don't have the gear for exsang to be better than tb
but uh... more haste/crit gear? better helm? deeper stratagem?
arctic walrus
Skitra logs are based off of the person actively logging, so if they happen to be split in the other realm often, you wont do much damage
@spark rampart your corruption is really bad, rank 4 echoing void is practically worthless and doing nothing for you, you don't have triple SS, and lack high ilvl mythic pieces that make the build better
spark rampart
@arctic walrus can I still do SS build witout Exsang build?
cus I dont have 3 DD for MA
arctic walrus
just sim your gear in top gear to see what's best for yourself
spark rampart
how does TB fit into SS build?
woeful minnow
you don't need shrouded for sub to be better than MA
last crown
@arctic walrus how reliable is details for what the skitra log would have been if they were in my phase?
arctic walrus
what do you mean fit
spark rampart
do I NEED exsang for the SS build?
lone junco
The RH guide has like 5 different openers listed.
arctic walrus
I mean the "ss build" encorporates everything that is deeper strat, exsang, triple ss, and a bunch of exsangs
lone junco
ma vs subterfuge. Ss. No ss. Dd.
arctic walrus
you can run shrouded/subt without needing to go exsang though, it only gets better with more haste
lone junco
You probably wont go DS until you have a butt load of haste. And lucid minor. But its a good build. Very peaky.
spark rampart
so i really dk what to do
spark rampart
okay, but with Subterfuge or master assasin
because that talent row affects my opener
woeful minnow
sim it?
arctic walrus
you always take subterfuge if you have SS traits
spark rampart
okay cool
lone junco
Go with Subterfuge even at a tiny loss imo. Get the openr rhythm down.
lone junco
Read the guide for Tb subterfuge ss
arctic walrus
on cd, and your next gcd should be a 4/5cp env
which means it's okay to cap cp with tb
spark rampart
ok cool
last crown
details/skada reliable for what a skitra log would hav ebeen, or is it like drest where wasted damage wouldnt have counted
cobalt pelican
if you weren't randomly hitting the wrong image the entire intermission it's probably pretty accurate
tiny sierra
is BoTE go to for exsang now? over CLF?
lone junco
bote damage bonus lines up over the SS Exang with a /use verse trinket really well.
clf is more haste. which you can get in other means.
tiny sierra
word, sounds good. in terms of rotation i should use it right after exsang? or the gcd before?
also, this is pretty specific but hopefully yall can help. just getting to raden and was wondering if i should save cd's for when the adds come out and get a triple vanish garrote? and then vendetta exsang on raden? or should i just use cds on pull
tropic jackal
does anyone know how raidbots decides which piece of gear to add corruptions to?
last crown
BoTE2 still the ideal option on hivemind or really need 3?
arctic walrus
you dont use bote unless it's 3 for any fight
@tiny sierra vendetta/exsang on pull, you can save your first vanish for when adds spawn
tiny sierra
ty
desert orchid
so the corruptions you buy from mother, do they come in only rank 1?
fleet anchor
CLF is probably better most of the time over BotE. A lot of people are still using BotE due to comfort.
last crown
bote seems better for hivemind still at least
fleet anchor
Even the worst-case fight durations for CLF are usually still simming better than BotE for most Exsang gearsets
BotE is potentially better for Hivemind but the difference would be pretty minimal tbh
People tend to forget the GoA pet casts AoE abilities multiple times as well, a lot of GoA logs have just as much damage from the pet as the BotE on-use even on Hivemind, or very close
last crown
interesting. hivemind just seems like a fucking disaster log-wise
fleet anchor
Was looking at a lot of Exsang logs today from the re-clear and even on 2 minute fights which are optimal for BotE vs. CLF, one use of the pet is almost always beating the damage contribution from double BotE usage
Even a lot of the top parses on say Maut using BotE, BotE is only contributing like... 2-3% DPS
Which is really low for a major
(Extracting out the crit bonus damage + the on use damage, etc.)
fleet whale
the damage of BoTe was never it's selling point
real solar
I mean what BOTE is good for is the 10s after you use it
fleet anchor
Even one use of the pet is gonna give 4% damage without even considering the Haste buff
I am considering the bonus crit damage when saying that
The on-use damage is nothing on ST
cobalt pelican
clf kinda owns
i just wish the pet
wasn't drunk sometimes
not getting your first stack of clf till like 4.5-5 seconds into the fight with prepull is depressing
fleet anchor
Yeah he gets pretty delayed at the start of fights for some reason
cobalt pelican
uhh kinda
i've stopped doing it on every fight and only fights i think are going to be 3:15~
last crown
ah
cobalt pelican
but i'm not sure if it's best tbh
fleet anchor
But anyway, when I say BotE damage contribution I mean.. filtering out the crits during Blood Soaked, figuring out how much the 20% bonus gained. Plus weighting the rough contribution from crit rate during the 10s buff. Plus the direct damage.
Usually that barely even can beat the CLF pet damage alone
Without even considering the Haste buff
Or damage taken debuff
cobalt pelican
i want a wcl query/script to do the math for me
bote is like a black box for me
i make it boom
numbers come out
fleet whale
imagine if assassin's gcd was lowered by haste
fleet anchor
Yeah it's a little annoying. I should turn it into a pastable thing.
Figure out how to do it in a text expression instead of using the widgets
wowanalyzer does part of it though
fleet anchor
I don't really use it for rotational stuff since some of it is outdated, but it's good for looking at essence contribution
It has some good breakdowns for WV uptime, BotE contribution, proc uptimes, etc.
fleet whale
what about breath major, is that still good
last crown
breath major seems good for cara and nzoth if used optimally but could be wrong
fleet whale
don't forget drest, but it always simmed really well for me and i always wanted to try in straight ST
cobalt pelican
the wowa breakdown covers everything besides the 25crit% right i guess?
fleet anchor
Breath in ST is not as good with the Expedient build
Because we run out of globals for it
Which is shocking to say for Assassination, but true 😛
fleet whale
yeah idk how to feel about global capped assassin
fleet anchor
But with a typical non-stacked TB build or whatever, Breath major is still very strong even in ST
If you have a Crit build it is quite good too
fleet whale
I think there is a middle ground that can be reached for assassin that isn't painfully slow
but also isn't global capped
fleet anchor
Actually @cobalt pelican I may take back that recommendation, I just looked at one wowa page for it and the values make no sense at all 😛
Somehow claiming a bit more damage than should be possible, they may be taking 20% of the total value instead of 16.6%.
And inverting it incorrectly
fleet anchor
Either way, like one of the top logs it's showing only 5.2%.. in reality it's less because they are over-counting by about 100k. 4.8% or something probably.
Top CLF log has 750k from the pet damage alone. Which is basically matching the entire contribution of Blood in that top log.
Without even considering the buff
And that's 1x CLF usage vs. 2x BotE
And the haste buff itself is pretty huge
cobalt pelican
yeah, i think it kinda lines up with my sims tbh at this point clf is untouchable
do you still think prepull is worth given the delayed cast starts/cast losses?
i always run into the same decision more or less where i'm at 3 stacks with exsang global open
and i always press it and feel bad for not waiting 0.2 seconds for the 4th stack
fleet anchor
Plus, I have Rank 4 and I'm glad I get to look at my thicc rockboi
And yes that's your log 😄
fleet anchor
haha
last crown
speaking of - anyone wanna crucify my maut log that was hopefully fixed up a bit from earlier maut logs? 🙂
fleet anchor
Get in there early and get on the 100% or 0% roulette 🤣
vital haven
yep
i actually didnt get a second pot on that fight
i messed the prepull clf opener
prepotted too late
fleet anchor
Man I had someone mess up my prepull opener on one pull this week and I didn't get in stealth
I wanted to murder
vital haven
ye its definitely risky
fleet anchor
lol
fleet whale
but anyway, about BoTE, it suffers from neck scaling
fleet anchor
I started doing it on 2
fleet whale
while CLF still scales with the neck
fleet anchor
Yeah that's definitely a big factor
fleet whale
they had to
blizz doesn't like people going back to do old raids for stuff, i'm shocked coral was never nerfed but that is falling behind
fleet anchor
Ironically
fleet whale
and even with the nerf it's still great for havoc
fleet anchor
Still think CLF is one of the easier ones to get atm
As a fresh toon I'd much rather get CLF than Blood for example 🤣
fleet whale
it is, but blizz has been "play the patch" since like wotlk
fleet whale
don't raid while stoned 😛
fleet anchor
I may have a few fight length improvements for CLF sims too also.. since CLF has syncing logic with Vendetta
But Vendetta doesn't have syncing logic with CLF
last crown
kill damage was ~3k off of my 5min sim so i dont think it was too bad but im not happy with my parses lately anyways
fleet anchor
Might be a minor increase for CLF on like.. 3-4 minute sims
Although it's not massive
CLF is still good if you pop it off without Vendetta so it's not like it's a massive gain like the Blood syncing was
Since the pet does a considerable amount of damage on its own
And the haste buff is pretty much always good
cobalt pelican
it's pretty hard for me to escape clf at this point
even forcing 2.5min fight length to try and make bote hot
it's still not close
fleet anchor
Pretend you are a BM Hunter, pets == more DPS
fleet whale
yeah, but i don't think people roll rogue to have pets do damage
fleet anchor
lol
I have an emotional attachment to rockboi
He saw me through the Azshara dark times
And was upgraded for his service
fleet whale
though honestly like none of the essences are rogue-like, maybe lucid with the leech factor it has and more attacks
fleet anchor
I hate to bench him
fleet whale
sadly lucid major isn't good