I have the Stygian Guise at Heroic atm
#assassination
golden heath
chilly obsidian
Welp unlucky, report the bug!
velvet nacelle
i wonder if it snapshots your loot spec when you do the mythic and not when you open the box
chilly obsidian
It does it when you open the box
velvet nacelle
your guys' sims make me sad
i'm only barely at 50k. i don't care if i've only been playing bfa for a week and a half
gray breach
can assa rogues get rid of fixate slow on shadhar?
drifting cloud
39
velvet nacelle
that's the suggested amount but lately i've been getting annoyed with the eye of corruption, it always pops up right as i pop a cd or something so i have to coordinate moving out of it with the rest of the stuff and my old man hands don't like that
grave elk
dont forget about cloak active
velvet nacelle
yeah i use it sometimes but i hate using it on something like that
grave elk
welp
velvet nacelle
situational
scarlet swift
I feel like 39 is so low 😩
velvet nacelle
right now i'm at 18 with my cloak at rank 8 and echoing void. i don't really have corruption pieces i care about yet
velvet nacelle
i have 20 on my weapon that's meh, it's "versatility chance on taking damage"
i played around with 100 corruption just to see what it was like
hollow stone
39 or less is whats recommended for prog. Under 60 is basically mandatory for prog
velvet nacelle
eye of corruption circle is basically "the map" and it hits super hard
grave elk
yeah if i can get my rank 9 cloak before my raid tonight ill drop below 40
hollow stone
If youre under 40, what else would you use cloak active on if not the eye? The slow? That feels like more of a waste to me
But obv situational
nimble skiff
I mean just use it per situation
hollow stone
I agree. But somebody said they hated using it on something like the eye
white wyvern
I am under 39 and just use it when eye procs during damage windows and there is no way for me to hit target and step out.
shadow copper
Heya i got a question. As i know primary on ST is Haste but i have around 1000 haste and on sim my haste is rly low.
i can drop sim also here
strange python
all stats are quite close in value atm
trust sims
you have 3 big haste procs in vita, your ring corruption and triple OP
and iris minor
dark lily
hollow stone
Secondaries scale off each other (esp for sin) so if one is much higher, then it will be devalued in comparison to the others (haste in your case). Corruption, stats, traits, essences all have an impact on your specific stat weights. Trust the sims
low girder
there an easy way to turn off the detection spam in the APL? really curious how much the increase comes out to
in raidbots*
hollow stone
There definitely is. But i will let somebody who is actually talented at sim apls go over how cause idk
rigid mango
@cobalt pelican
low girder
cool, thanks
grave elk
Would you guys drop the dagger
or the boots corruption?
I cant go into prog with 68 corruption lol
light kestrel
Can you double up on corruptions? I have a mind flay ring and a mind flay belt, will the higher rank cancel the lower?
white wyvern
@light kestrel Yes, AFAIK each TA has a chance to proc it's own Tentacle. You can have multiple out at the same time. They do not cancel each other out. I run one TA and have had 2+ tentacles out at once.
light kestrel
Thanks, last night with one tentacle I procc'd 4 on a mob in a +7 mechagon and it just got nuked.
astral onyx
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
ashen ermine
So is worldvein actually good or just inflated on sims
ashen ermine
Thanks bruv
heady ridge
can a Destroyer's Shadowblade get corrupted?
bleak spoke
Yeah everything without a forced corruption on the raid can be corrupted with random stuff
sudden trench
fk this games rng. friend of mine got spyglass 475 with socket and Gorak Tuls from vendor
ashen ermine
I got a fking 470 cannonball from chest so you know I'm loving life
real bay
can't wait to open mine oh boy 
vagrant tapir
I'm having a hard time finding any videos/clips of rogues playing well with high corruption
Like some of these high parses
ashen ermine
Could watch Perfecto when he's in for prog for Method
cobalt pelican
you just stand in all of the things that hurt you
and hope you don't die
i've revealed the secret strat to you, go forth and dps
subtle tundra
pay a healer before the raid to heal you like you're the tank
fading wigeon
^^^
ashen ermine
I see the vita's trink set got bumped up on sims 👀
silent silo
Got this in my box, got sad at first but raidbots says its a 1.2k increase to my dps. Think i should run this with coral (like it raidbots says) or still FOP and coral since thats such a good combo?
grave elk
when do you proc world vein? just on cd?
silent silo
Was thinking just on cd
Was more so wondering if the FOP and coral combo would be worth breaking for this. Not sure if raidbots picks up them overlapping in our vendetta window
cobalt pelican
if you have both font and coral equipped and no other weird gear shenanigans going on and that trinket is a 1.2k upgrade idk
i'd like to see that sim
quasi scroll
god almighty
"chance on taking damage to gain 728 vers" in the slot where I currently have TD
what a waste
mighty elm
I tried that trinket, it’s so bad though. The aoe competes with the tos trinkets ST in m+
pearl ingot
Do we have statistics for gambeling azerite gear? Is saving for specific gear faster? Scared to get shafted from rng gods again.
cobalt pelican
it's almost always worth gambling unless your gear is insane and you're fishing for like 1/7 for negligible upgrade
especially since your first piece has added value to your guild for trading
but the only statistics you'll really get is like.. basic probability
grave elk
@chilly marsh what shoulders?
chilly marsh
the ones with SS +EB
strange python
pistoleer's, gold-tasseled and extravagant epaulettes @grave elk
if you get helm from mythic maut and chest from carapace you have a good early setup with that
3x SS, 1x EB, 2x HoD
earnest quiver
Hey, when you are supposed to use cyclotronic blast in the opener if using master assassin?
cobalt pelican
after vendetta sometime when you're low energy and tb isn't on the boss
(the vendetta debuff that is, not the button press)
so like 25 seconds into the fight or something
willow acorn
when im opening in ST should I BOTE right at the beginning or put some garrotes and and a rupture then vend bote TB ?
cobalt pelican
bote opener is just the same as the clf opener except you move bote to the global after vend rather than the global before
you can get an example opener for anything you play by running a quick sim and looking at the example sequence
quasi pewter
its actually the global after tb
fleet whale
i mean, even without SS traits, subter was never too far behind MA
cobalt pelican
sometimes it's better sometimes it's not, seems to get better with gear
v few people play it even if it's slightly better because it's way more awkward than ma
fleet whale
plus MA is burstier, and burst is usually desired
and yeah, the MA opener is at least somewhat similar to the Legion opener that many people got used too
chilly marsh
is the profile not using SS trait too?
rigid mango
Subt has generally been very close to MA the entirity of last tier too
fleet whale
yeah, i just simmed subter and it's only a 282 dps loss compared to MA, around a 0.5% difference, and that's pretty much how it's been since BoDA
rigid mango
It's a 200 gain for me (:
fleet whale
yeah, gear probably influences it a bit too
you're probably fine using either though regardless
fallow otter
Can't get a decent corruption... Typical luck
maiden raptor
pot of focused resolve for single target rite?
deep solstice
I finally got EV....on a 415 ring. Still an upgrade. This is a good game.
deep solstice
Focused resolved was always simming better for me with Subterfuge. Worse for MA.
maiden raptor
wait you can sim pots. pog gotta look into that
maiden raptor
awesome thanks for letting me know
signal crag
do you guys like NP more then DD ?
rigid mango
I lik ethe one that does the most damage (:
vast forum
i like the lack of mention to gushing wound
deep solstice
if EV nerf means I dont have to spam detection, I am ok with that....tho the same crap will apply to IS, TD, etc....
chilly marsh
when its a 475 weapon
plush remnant
Do you spam detection with IS?
warm parcel
why would you
fallow otter
I wonder if deadly momentum will be awesome if it doesn't fail off
plush remnant
Didn’t know if it procced like it does with EV
cobalt pelican
stars is a stacking debuff on the enemy that procs x times per minute
ev is a stacking buff on yourself that you get a stack of every time you cast a spell in combat
but ya the answer is no, detection for ev only
tribal marlin
If burst is what you want, go play NS BOTE :3 (coral requiert)
bleak spoke
Man playing with thing from beyond really sucks as sin in raid
It’s like liveable but having to blind it instead of having vanish whenever is kinda stupid
Friend of mine was testing detection and he said it wasn’t working
tribal marlin
detection for ?
main blaze
I found thing from beyond only truly annoying when terrain screws it up
tribal marlin
knwoing blizzard the will destroy EV with an axe
so that it will become the worst possible trait ever except maybe for tanks
tender rock
can anyone direct me to some info on the best way to use font and coral together?
tribal marlin
and people who spent million golds on it will be mad
tribal marlin
@tender rock Use font 6sec on pre-pull. Apply Coral ASAP. Then use font on CD and delay 2nd vendetta for 10sec so you have full Coral during 2nd vendetta. For 3rd vendetta it should then be lined up with Font being up 20sec before Vendetta.
harsh sphinx
detection still works
rigid mango
Font should be up 14 sec before vend*
tender rock
@tribal marlin @rigid mango ty both
shy dust
arctic walrus
NotoriousHerp 
next solar
im curious to see how big the nerf to EV will be
next solar
thats dope!
hidden bay
Simming and executing are 2 different things, right zine?
rigid mango
Nah just weirded out fam
Yeah I'm the r1 purple logger world man
Fuck playing high corr and wv tho 
scarlet sequoia
whats wrong with wv
rigid mango
Digusting
scarlet sequoia
why
cobalt pelican
fake news
rigid mango
It's so this patch
cobalt pelican
i still hate it but i play it like half of the time
rigid mango
Only insecure people play WV
cobalt pelican
the major is very yuck
scarlet sequoia
chad gamers have r4 blood on all their chars
cobalt pelican
the major is better than clf at le ast i always see my guardian just jerking off in multitarget fights
scarlet sequoia
ah damn
next solar
depends, it feels clunky but still peforms
rigid mango
idgaf about performing just feels awful
lusty narwhal
rigid mango
250~ for me
next solar
interesting
near magnet
guys anyone here using crimson tempest instead of poison bomb on m+ as assa?
rigid mango
y
tribal marlin
playing with bote 
tribal marlin
I tried bote earlier
my crit with mahor WV were higher
so I switched back to wv because i'm a bitch that like big crits :3
no tbh I don't use bote because I have 47% crit with my gear + razor coral
bote is just overcapping crit by a large margin :/
smoky inlet
anybody got any weakaura suggestions for tracking when to refresh garrote and rupture?
opal minnow
most of the popular WA packs linked it here probably have it
tiny finch
have you guys tested ripple in space on dest'agath fight?
for minor
'When you move more than25yds within 4sec, gain 970 agility for 15 sec'
smoky inlet
i dont see any of those pinned, so if anybody has one can they link it>
rigid mango
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
grave elk
do we just use world veins same time that we would use clf in opener?
rigid mango
y
smoky inlet
so the only one of those auras that have been updated any time recently is afenar
drifting cloud
what would they need to be updated for?
smoky inlet
out of date triggers, etc
strange python
they dont need updates unless shit breaks or gets changed
cobalt pelican
only like one weakaura update this expansion has changed how the base triggers work i think, and even then old weakauras work fine they're just encouraged to convert
if you want to make one yourself for pandemic timers it's pretty simple, adding stuff like colored text for empowered bleeds is a bit more difficult
worthy moon
So glad I got an expedient 3 to replace my void 2
sterile bane
How is the new nerfed and buff
full sandal
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
worthy moon
We don't know how much it's being nerfed by yet. -_- still better than all the stat ones probably.
cobalt pelican
when they add the word significantly i think it's probably going to be worse than at least the +% stat ones like expedient, at least on st
but yeah no idea on specifics yet
ionic quest
feral flare
441 Sin Rogue. Master Assassins/Toxic Blade. - Im wondering given what I have for essences which ones would be the best to use. https://i.imgur.com/gm4jutD.jpg Any opinions?
Also. The guide doesnt say which level it uses BotE or CLF. Others use specific levels which I dont have.
strange python
may i introduce you to raidbots.com's top gear feature
get this addon: https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/simulationcraft
paste your stuff here: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear
select the essences and sim it
sudden ravine
So how much does the fact that you can have 4x minor Vita Titanshard buffs increase the value of the Titanshard? Should Sims have an option to sim "up to 4 Titanshard allies" like Worldvein? Or does the sim take into account a full party of Titanshard users?
We did a group of 5 on a dummy for 3 minutes and we had about 85% uptime on having at least one buff, and had instances of having 4x of them at the same time. I can't seem to find anything on this discord in regards to Vita party stacking
lapis adder
So, Bloodmallet shows Vita and Void 2P being stronger than Coral and Font, even at their 445 versions. I've tried simming them vs my trinkets and still show being a downgrade compared to my Coral+Font. Both are 460 compared to 445 Coral and 430 Font. Is there something I'm missing or is it not updated yet.
drifting cloud
sim > bloodmallet
lapis adder
That's what I thought, but they took them forever and a half to update their sims to reflect the buffs the trinkets got some time ago. It was still showing 460 Vita giving 1422 haste rather than 1600. So was asking in case they were not updated yet again, in some way or something.
drifting cloud
well herodamage has carol ahead by alot
those charts are just to give you a general idea, you should just assume sims are more accurate
I mean there can always be more to it but its been over 2 weeks since raid probably would have figured it out by now if it was actually better
sudden ravine
that isn't actually what it shows, let me type this up and explain
It shows you the value of Vita, when using the 2pc, and Void, when using the 2pc. Take those values and compare it to whatever.
475 Void + set value and 475 Vita + set value was worth less than my 445 Coral + 475 Dice
it wasn't much, it was like 11.6k to 11.5k, but it was still less. It's deceiving how it's presented on that page with Vita + Set being at the very top. It's just that Void + Set is worth so little
fallow otter
If the buff is no longer falling off, looks like deadly momentum might be good, what do you guys think
lapis adder
That makes a lot more sense. Vita is only a few hundred dps behind my Font, so I guess I'll prob be using Font+Coral at least until after M Ra-den. Assuming I don't get a Mythic Font first. Rip.
crisp hollow
I see a lot of M+ assassination rogues running mainstat proc trinkets
alch trinket, azerok's, etc
any particular reason these would be better than say, torment in a jar?
amber tiger
fallow otter
or use hero dmg as guide, ideally only one NP but you can get away with not having one
raw lotus
What are our best trinkets atm?
opal minnow
high ilvl font+coral if you have them/can get them. otherwise you'd have to sim. but my guess is a galecallers or plumage+vita
storm perch
coral + font/vita?
lapis adder
Any particular reason as to why Subterfuge would sim higher than Master Assassin? It's only by 100dps, at 0 Shrouded Suffocation traits.
opal minnow
stat scaling on bleeds most likely
void pecan
^
marble tartan
hey people, got a question to my corruption items and their sims. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cw2px2wKJUp3ykXUh4C8uu Is Inefffable Truth 2 valuable for sins in general? Seems like it's kinda abd tho.
even though it sims highest in that slot
drowsy snow
What’s on the purified gloves? It’s possible it gets in a handful of extra attacks on the 5 min sim that puts it over whatever else is in the slot.
strange python
did they fix the unstealthing in visions as assa?
shrewd night
You mean if they fixed subterfuge? No.
strange python
so taking MA doesnt get you suddenly out of stealth?
harsh sphinx
I believe so. I ran MA on accident early on and never got knocked out
marble tartan
@drowsy snow Taking Dmg has a chance to increase Versa by 728ish for 20s
@drowsy snow actually using these
crimson palm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8AfxC8GEFuPu5K2NDBAZYt unstable catalyst looks like a sim bait
wat to do >.<
fallow otter
@crimson palm don't sim it imo
@faint harness i would also be nervous, as someone that doesn't have any of the broken corruptions im looking forward to the nerfs, there is going to continue to be more adjustments also I'd say
The SS trait was busted in the beginning but the nerfed it into a good spot, hope this is the same. You are going to take a decent hit in dps imo but it's needed, the question is, is it nerfed into the toilet or is it balanced? I hope it's the latter
faint harness
Well they used the word significant
knowing Blizzard balancing thats prob a dead corruption after the changes
Maybe something for tanks only
rough agate
idk they nerfed IS a lot and its still great
fallow otter
Im thinking that they always intended it to be a tank dps corruption and it will still be a good choice for them but it might be dead for dps classes, but they may just change the way it scales completely
formal willow
where can i read about the nerfs?
fallow otter
Since it currently scales with hp
fallow otter
unreal kayak
Imagine finaly getting a EV piece and from weekly cashe then to read about it getting nerfed 
fallow otter
I would say +1 but I think my main motivation is likely jealousy
spark sky
At the same time I'm happy that I'm not competing against all the EV anymore, but on the other hand I guess it'll just make all fights a bit harder for our guild at least
red bloom
\
tropic ocean
game design 
faint harness
I wonder if they will nerf the fights accordingly if they take a dump on all the really good corruption and just slightly buff the worse
Like if they bring down all the corruptions to lets say.. a Severe level
thats a big dps hit for the entire raid
storm perch
do they know about detection?)
faint harness
I would assume so
fallow otter
@faint harness there are buffs as well as nerfs
faint harness
Yea but they use words like "tune accordingly" or something when talking about the bad corruptions
and nerf significantly when talking EV
frigid briar
I mean, does it really matter? Get 2xHC mind flay daggers and forget about corruption
faint harness
so i'm just assuming the mean dps change is going to be a negative across the board
crimson palm
At least they're not touching gushing wounds so
faint harness
mind flay is the biggest RNG shit i've ever encountered
frigid briar
Mind flay will outweight EV now and its 100% drop on our 2 highest itmlvl daggers
faint harness
legit can make or break ur dps if it feels like it
tropic ocean
mindflay sucks
fallow otter
@frigid briar they said they might give that a crispy nerf aswell
frigid briar
Mind flay does 6-8% of your damage for rank 1 hc dagger
faint harness
Stunkei, they didnt mention GW but i'm quite sure they are tuning everything
frigid briar
Get both and its 15% of your dps
faint harness
just gonna get 2 of them 4head
marsh aurora
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w8Ae4E9DoMbjr1zABBVaHm any tip to improve that dmg ?
tropic ocean
ev was great
good on st good on aoe
what sin needed
but at least I got 475 echoing ss chest so
im not super tilted
frigid briar
Its never RNG for me, sometimes its 5-6% other times it procs extra. Still minimum 15% of your damage. Theres no downside really. EV was always gonna get nerfed. Getting 2 EV from WQ doing top damage was never gonna stick
fallow otter
@faint harness they likely to leave it alone because it only has one rank which is low, it's just very dps per corruption efficient, but it's hard to get alot of it.... It's 1/52
faint harness
stars is more consistent
faint harness
it will do its dmg
frigid briar
Stars is sim bait
faint harness
mindflay can just not proc
faint harness
you die to stars on maut
frigid briar
If it procd on maut you can get 1 shot unless they fixed it
tropic ocean
and idk i got tentacle on dh which has naturally high haste throughout
and it still sucks
sometimes 3 or 4 spawns
sometimes 1
just terrible design
jaunty arrow
I kill myself with stars in tos on frst boss 
tropic ocean
if they find echoing void too strong ok nerf it (despite its not doing 30%+of dmg on dps)
but the consistency and aoe capability was great
only issue was tanks but u could just reduce effectiveness on tanks and solve it
faint harness
i feel like the main issue is blood dps
when blizz saw that it just instantly meant nerf inc
frigid briar
If you need AoE from assassination for fights like hivemind just run double folly, 3 echo blades, crimson tempest and blood of the enemy. Sure standing doing nothing with EV gaining dps was effective but it was always gonna happen right
Apart from that your never really gonna need EV for multi targets for assassination
crimson palm
Tbh the point was that you can go straight ST with EV
And it just helped with AoE along the way
You didn't need to target a specific build for it to work
plug&play
tropic ocean
thats the hard issue with sin to need 2 sets of azerite basically
echoing void fixed it play st
have decent cleave
frigid briar
Also look at people doing mythic content and getting out dps'd by someone who got 2x rank 2 echo void from WQ
There is pros and cons
And same corruption for all fights is boring imo
tropic ocean
yes there is pros a lot of them
balance corruptions better
and the smart way to not annoy people devaluing their items would be to buff others
frigid briar
How it went live like it did is a the big problem
tropic ocean
but blizz is just as usual
I mean you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to realize that high proc rate trait that scales of max hp will be broken af
frigid briar
I have 3x echo rank 2, 1 rank 3 stars and 2xrank 2 mindflay 460. If the dagger dropped for me I would have had to purify it because how strong EV was
Thats how broken the system is
tropic ocean
why would u need to purify ur dagger
its not like you're forced to equip 2 ev
besides double dagger is more broken than ev
except that its ultra rng
frigid briar
But purfying dagger for itmlvl and 2 echo void is 4k more dps than 2 daggers with mind flay
Was*
Then in AoE I couldnt even use my mindflay dagger I wasnt gonna purify because I needed to stay AoE
There was alot of annoying things with EV.
tropic ocean
yeah all the crybabies complaining they dont have one
civic palm
There were some functionality issues and triggering issues with EV as well, I wouldn't be surprised if more of them were blacklisted tomorrow along with the numbers changes.
proven talon
anyone got a weakaura or macro that deals with thing from beyond with blind?
civic palm
"deals with" O _O
proven talon
yessir
civic palm
Yeah but what do you mean by that, just tank the damage and let the healers spam heals harder.
civic palm
😐 take it
proven talon
running 70 corruption
civic palm
Get uhh... fatter.
That might change with upcoming changes.
If you can't deal with the effects of the corruption then lose some 😐
proven talon
i can deal with it by clicking on the thing, and blinding it manually, using cloak
or activating lego cloak
civic palm
Yeep.
civic palm
and thankfully there's a LINE connecting the two of you so you know your snuggle buddy is coming for a snuggle.
Either way my full assumption is that you must click on the damned thing to deal with it, dunno the macro limitations fully.
proven talon
i know there's a plater extension that can reveal the nameplate
civic palm
I mean if you wanna know it's there that's easy enough.
Plenty of WA/addons for that, including the murder rope.
but AFAIK you gonna have to click it.
tribal marlin
They'd better up other trait than nerfing echoing void
civic palm
#showtooltip
/target Thing from Beyond
/cast Blind
/targetlasttarget
will work if it lets you macro target.
proven talon
ive done exactly that
tribal marlin
Does not work, Thing from Beyond is blacklisted
proven talon
doesnt work
tribal marlin
like explosive
proven talon
wondering if mouseover macros would work
not sure if that works on blacklisted entities
tribal marlin
Nerfing echoing void (a 2nd time btw) when the progression is already well engage is a non sense
civic palm
Nope click it.
proven talon
oh jeez hes still going
tribal marlin
people will struggle with boss they shouldn't because they will lack on dps
proven talon
let it go mik
civic palm
They're nerfing EV after both regions have had a week.
proven talon
let it go
civic palm
...
tribal marlin
so is vexiona
proven talon
4Head
real bay
corruption gear check?
civic palm
Last I checked LIMIT reclear cut 2min off almost every boss.
tribal marlin
and does not even talking about ra'den
proven talon
he forgot the kappa check after that dw guys
civic palm
If that 2min chunk is due to EV or not we shall see.
civic palm
Yes that's how that content is designed.
For the race, and you all get the piss around in the kiddy pool.
This tier is even easier than people were expecting, IIRC.
civic palm
I keep reading your name as MILK and not MIK O _O
proven talon
do you sim more than 70k
tribal marlin
I do
proven talon
then it's not a problem for you
tribal marlin
yes it is
if people suddenly loose 3k dps
we will have dps issue
not everyone is simming 70k
civic palm
Theeeeere's your limit!!
civic palm
Just wait for more nerfs :3
proven talon
lets just pretend
that gives you the opportunity to get guaranteed corruption weapons from later bosses on heroic that are now going to sim far better
doesnt affect 2h plate wearers at all because they can use twilight dev
doesnt affect casters
tribal marlin
I don't get your point dude
civic palm
Also this isn't #assassination it's #wow-general but I ain't no cop O _O
proven talon
the point is
real bay
die corruption die , imagine how much easier tuning would be
proven talon
you're actually deluded thinking the nerf a) isnt totally fair and b) is the end of your progression
tribal marlin
all I said is that if EV is destroyed, we will loose a lot of DPS which is bad because bosses are quite overtuned atm
proven talon
if you think the ev nerf is going to destroy your guilds progression then i fear for your guild
a lot
tribal marlin
remember Dresta and raden got buffed
proven talon
is an exaggeration
civic palm
I... dunno if they are overtuned.
civic palm
Especially considering if it's hard to tune the encounters with busted corruptions.
Removing the busted corruptions should make it easier to tune.
proven talon
imagine thinking there are literally no alternative corruptions
civic palm
❌
tribal marlin
there are alternative corruption
12% flat stat is good if you stack the said stat enough
civic palm
I don't think any of them are more rare than others.
tribal marlin
gushing wound is busted
proven talon
gushing wound is fantastic in terms of dps/corruption value
but it's balanced in the sense that that one item doesnt give as significant a dps boost over other corruptions
faint harness
Heretix, if you cant see the logic in removing several 1000s of dps on each dps in the raid and then suffering cus the bosses are tuned for silly corruption values you're delusional
regardless of EVs state or not
proven talon
LMAO imagine tuning a raid to need gear on later bosses
ur right bro i am delusional
what a silly thought
proven talon
clearly
tribal marlin
I mean, they can buff other trait rather than nerfing EV
real bay
getting gear and getting bis corrupted items is a bit different
faint harness
Theres no item in that raid that will make up for a 4000 dps loss if EV gets shat on
not a single item
proven talon
high ilvl mindflay is busted
faint harness
Not even a combination of items
proven talon
twilight dev can be busted given good rng
faint harness
They are nerfing those too
strange python
When can we expect sims to go up after nerfs?
civic palm
o _o
proven talon
????
civic palm
Hello?
proven talon
push you cant read bro
tribal marlin
Imagine you are progressing an encounter, said Drest (my case). Suddenly all your raid loose 1000s dps and you don't meat the dps requierement because you are not Method or Limit, have a job or just dont want to do 100 hours of raid spliting a week
civic palm
If you can't generate the DPS required then you need more gear, it's always been this way.
tribal marlin
well you are fuckd, you can't progress anymore and it sucks
proven talon
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
strange python
Tbh u shouldnt have been there in the first place
proven talon
omegalul
faint harness
No its not
proven talon
ur trolling if u think anything other than ra'den is going to be affected by EV nerfs
civic palm
Encounters in Mythic Raids are designed to test the best players.
faint harness
Its a place for discussion is it not
proven talon
but
tribal marlin
drest'agath got buffed because of corruption too strong
proven talon
you're wrong
civic palm
The difficulty ramp this tier has been historically easy.
faint harness
Are you kidding me
tribal marlin
there is a real dps check on drest'agat
faint harness
Did you play Antorus?
civic palm
Low pull counts all over the place, even after massive HP buffs.
faint harness
Guilds reached aggramar on 1st raid
strange python
When can i expect the sims to work?
versed bobcat
The bosses are commonly known as badly tuned since corruption is busted. They needed to nerf every corruption to make it just a slight damage gain. Only that way we get a competitive "race" through all world ranks since rng wasn't more busted in wow history EVER.
faint harness
we killed 7-8 bosses on 2 raid nights, you're just straight up lying if you think this tier has been easier tuning-wise than "Any other raid"
civic palm
@strange python When there's an update in the TC channels mentioning the timing, or by checking the herodamage website to updates.
strange python
Tyvm mizerok
crisp ledge
Is echoing void nerf live yet for EU?
proven talon
i dont think the argument is blizzard has tuned this raid or corruptions well
no one believes that
civic palm
IIRC there's a shit ton of guilds pretty close to 11/12 now ye?
proven talon
literally no one was saying that either
civic palm
4 are 11/12, 6 others are nearing.
faint harness
You havent played the game for long if you think this raid is that undertuned, its just that the top guilds can inflate their dps with silly corruption stacking
civic palm
Seems fine.
faint harness
Which normal guilds cant
real bay
here I am simming 62k while AH boys are near 75k
versed bobcat
Yes that's what I meant. The raid, without ANY corruption, is probably perfectly tuned
civic palm
I've said this a few times now, LIMIT, within 7 days, is minutes ahead of intended tuning.
faint harness
Yes LIMIT
who cares
are you playing in Limit?
Is your guild capable of spending 500 mil gold on BiS boes?
tribal marlin
tbh I'm not even sure you actually kill Sha'dar without any corruption
civic palm
Once the race is over, as typical, there will be nerfs.
faint harness
Lets just leave it at that
rustic bolt
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
tribal marlin
"without any corruption, it would be perfectly tuned" dude we all did like 65 to 70k in our cheddar kill, healers were near 120k hps EACH
there is NO WAY you kill that boss without corruption (i.e. with like every dps at 55-60k)
civic palm
No corruption is a silly thought for sure.
Considering that's an entire upgrade path removed from the tier it's current in.
strange python
What started this whole argument?
civic palm
Whiners whining in the wrong channel.
strange python
Cuz of the ev nerf?
storm perch
upcoming nerfs to EV
faint harness
I don't think you understand the point anyone is making
Its not even about EV
It's about bringing down outliers to match the bottom feeder corruptions
Which means overall raid dps will plummet
civic palm
But yeah the upcoming changes to Corruption has sparked a "conversation" on the most overpowered corruptions and how tuning might have been influenced by them.
faint harness
Remains to be seen if they compensate for it
tribal marlin
Even if we don't speak about raid. It's really unsatisfying to actually get some gear, building your character but actually loosing power
faint harness
I play in a 3day (10 hour/week) raiding guild, 50% quite casual players that semi-raidlog. We have consistently been getting around 150 wr since early Legion. This will hit our type of guild the hardest, because we have to rely on getting lucky from weekly chests, some people have and they "carry" the dps for now. If thats removed, the bosses are overtuned, and thats based on progressing the past 8 raid tiers at mythic level. No other raid will come close.
civic palm
Now you won't have to get super lucky, because the nerfs are clamping down that requirement.
tribal marlin
it's like you spent time gearing and building your character for 2 weeks, but at the end you have the same that 2 weeks before, it's non-sense. The whole think of nerfing shits is a non-sense. They should up stuff on the bottom insteed of bringing down things on the top.
faint harness
Its unprecedented that you're reaching enrage timers in a decent guild on boss 6-7
WITH corruptions
Now imagine without
Thats terrible balancing
No matter how you want to put it
civic palm
Some of the stuff on the bottom has been looked at and some effectiveness should be increased in hopes to compensate for the horrible outliers.
faint harness
I simply don't have faith in Blizzard hitting that mark
civic palm
I will say that there's not much "progress" to be lost once a nerfs are so close to the inception of the problem.
marble tartan
Did they nerf the Torment in a Jar?
civic palm
Not that I've seen.
faint harness
They will never be able to make stat procs compensate for thousands of dps, they would have to be silly tuned
tribal marlin
stat proc corruption already really good
faint harness
Some of tyhem
civic palm
I don't think that they need to, because I also don't think that the raids are too well tuned atm either.
faint harness
Are you basing that on Limit/Methods progress or your own?
Are you breezing through the bosses atm
Killing them 2 minutes earlier than intended
if so, hats off
marble tartan
faint harness
Should already be happening
civic palm
For about 2 hours now but who cares.
lapis adder
If I run Subterfuge, is it fine if I desync Vendetta from Vanish? Say Wrathion, it's okay if I save Vendetta for the actual boss, but use Vanish to do x3 Garrote on the Shards.
lapis adder
Was asking more if it's a dps loss and I'm forced to use Vanish within the Vendetta window like with Master Assassin, or if it's not a problem. Rather than if it's gonna be useful damage or not. I've already killed the boss last week, just want to fix the 29% parse 
civic palm
Not getting +DMG on your hardest hitting skill seems like a poor choice.
and if your parse is predicated on fluffed up damage numbers, I am not sure the point, sorry.
edgy pawn
my sim tells me to use the crit pot, anyone experienced the same?
civic palm
I am sure that some do, and others don't. How much of a loss is the other option you have?
edgy pawn
just asking because at the start of the last raid we used the crit pot and (if i remember correctly) that was some simbug
not entirely sure
it's about 150 dps gain to use the crit pot
civic palm
Seems negligible, could just see how you do with your options in a practical setting.
rigid mango
Crit pot gang 
candid anvil
Dear god, first time I'm happy for weekly chest ❤️
snow storm
i got a downgrade from my weekly 😦
sonic rapids
4 weekly chests, 4 trinkets nice system 🙂 https://i.gyazo.com/56a91af29f7e81a8e8734332181d631c.png
lapis adder
Getting trinkets from weekly chest. 
frigid briar
Id take that spyglass above 
subtle tundra
i just got geared for the ev nerf
frigid briar
Pog
rigid mango
Huh
faint harness
They are doing big tuning
rigid mango
Yes but it specifically names EV
faint harness
and TD
rigid mango
Do u see the pattern?
faint harness
HP based
rigid mango
Bingo.
rigid mango
Not sure
Would make sense
I don't think they're insanely overtuned, just nerf a bit and make them not obnoxious for tanks
rigid mango
It kinda is
faint harness
For a non-tank
rigid mango
Did 13%~ on average on shad
faint harness
My personal experience, i have T2 TA and EV
they are matching eachothers dmg
on our shadhar kill
tropic ocean
how much corruption
tropic ocean
u got gushing right
faint harness
The differences on 1 pull, 20% uptime on TA same tier
rigid mango
Yus
tropic ocean
yeah gushing is giga and low corruption
rigid mango
475 gushing is p litty
faint harness
imagine getting it
tropic ocean
its not nerfed yet afaik
faint harness
Nothing has been changed yet
tropic ocean
so no sim update
rigid mango
the nerfs aren't out yet mate
outer lotus
How can they already have the nerf in if nobody knows what the nerf is?
faint harness
candid jasper
Ahh, thanks, didn't realise it wasn't quite nerfed
tribal marlin
any changes in the apl recently ? won like 4k simd compare to 2days ago
is it only detection thing ?
steady owl
I hope they don’t nerf it before method is done with the reclear
candid jasper
I think I'll hold off purifying my rank 3 corrupted mastery legs then
faint harness
80 corruption
tribal marlin
I did gear compare to cleans the weap
faint harness
TA also notoriously sims like shit
tribal marlin
ye that's why I won't cleanse that dagger
dark crag
tribal marlin
nzoth dagger is already a thing
tribal marlin
I know trill played with 58 corruption most of the time
tropic ocean
because it sims highest for him probably
and even if versa sims very close to a different stat
might as well take the dmg reduction for progress
tribal marlin
if he play R2+R3 EV versa is probably best stat for him
faint harness
in my outlaw EV build, my stat weights are completely fucked
7.5 in crit/vers, 3.5 in haste/mastery
worldly trail
he use 2x echo yes
faint harness
it wants haste
worldly trail
yeah my sims say haste versa i have r3 infinite
tropic ocean
and I think perfecto is using engineer helmet as well
which gives a lot of free haste
too
tropic ocean
should be
I got mechagon chest today
but can just check npc if its buyable on demand will be in lottery too
potent raft
@faint harness yes, i got shoulders
faint harness
Its just that the helm from king mechy was hardmode only
rigid mango
Yes.
It's been known for months now that the chest + shoulders were gonna be added to the pool
😄
opal urchin
is infinite stars benefitting from detection spam as well? cant remember if it got triggered by gcd too
tropic ocean
X doubt
outer lotus
No IS is just ppm +haste
atomic willow
is a 460 Torment in a Jar trinket good for M+?
covert crag
Depends on what else you got but generally its good
urban bough
im pretty fine with Dead-Eye Spyglass and Humming Black Dragonscale so i dont have to go on haste that much and can go to crit mastery versa it seems pretty good in my opinion even if the Spyglass is 440 and not 460 i would choose the spyglass
waxen cobalt
Is there a list anywhere of trinkets that are known to be simbait, such as Cannonball Runner?
waxen cobalt
Awesome, cheers
mighty elm
Np, yw
drifting cosmos
Do ppl use vop minor to line up vend with bote in m+?
tropic ocean
using vop minor yeah
it also makes u be able to hold vanish with 2nd vendetta on bosses
in tyran or in fortified too if key is high enough
and u can use vendetta more frequently on trash prio too
@rigid mango https://prnt.sc/qxwfk0
but even in hc already 60 corruption is 
zone ticks hurt a lot and the slow is uff
young portal
Bloodmallet ranks Twilight Devastation rank 3 as second in a patchwerk situation, but it sims less than my Twilight 1 and Racing Pulse 3. Ofc I'm gonna trust the sim, just wondering if someone could shed some light, or whether I've fucked the sim itself
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i4hPjgGwAESEeE53RTax1e
faint harness
@tropic ocean 75k dps for 60 corruption aint worth it
59 would be ait tbh
but 60, yikers if you get hit by a grand delusion
tropic ocean
very shit situation
not gonna cleanse dagger
and removing 1 ev is 4,7k dps loss
😄
faint harness
Not after the nerfs in a few hours!
Shoudl just hold on
and see whats going on
Have you done this weeks cloak upgrade?
iron heath
I got a 460 cannonball this week . Sims well but no good ?
stable oxide
So I get the whole "always sim yourself part". But how can Herodamage get the Expedient corruption higher on their dungeonslice sim than Twilight devastation?
iron heath
Oh really so not worth using ?
random furnace
Ok team, want your thoughts after simming these 2 trinkets. 430 Font vs 450 Galecaller...
Top gear is placing the font at 950 dps higher than the galecaller...
young portal
What's your other trinket?
random furnace
but I would think that the haste from galecaller would be better than the primary stat from the font.
Ashvane
quasi scroll
If you're not running SS/Sub what's the play style in M+ trash packs?
stable isle
activate outlaw spec
young portal
Outlaw
stable isle
presuming if youre not running ss+sub you're running double dose traits instead, in which case fan isnt worth it until you're 5+ targets. you probably just pump all your dmg into the highest health target, but you may aswell just get a decent sword/fist/mace weapon and play outlaw instead
quasi scroll
got it
SS/sub has always been my default, was just wondering if there was any other good way to play it
only recently stopped SS/sub on raid bosses
young portal
Can someone have a look at the above sim I posted and help shed some light for me please?
white wyvern
It didn't sim the Tier 3 Twilight because there was no possible way to stay <= 39 corruption based on the way you setup the combinations.
If you go back to combinations you can see the wrist has a "!" next to it.
The rings are causing the issue. 60 corruption from them with no alternative.
young portal
I set it to 59 I'm sure I did and I ticked the copy and purify box
Will re-run
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8UKXKfssSFyBLJgS2NFnXG @white wyvern set to 59 and ticked the purify box 100%
stable isle
https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/corruptions-absolute/1t-t25-assassination t3 racing pulse (2940 dps) + t1 twilight (1304) is more than t3 twilight (4k)
unless i cant add
frigid briar
@random furnace if you have font and coral you want swap them out till later in patch. Itmlvl means nothing right now. Vita trinket is only one that will probably or eventually sim better
young portal
Ah fuck, is Bloodmallet known to be unreliable?
stable isle
ofcourse those sims are done with different gear, but you get the idea. it probably just comes down to your current stats right now
i dunno, i go off herodamage since afaik mystler updates that himself
frigid briar
Also do not ever click that purify button
Unless you gonna kill Nzoth this reset, dont purify anything until balancing happens
vast forum
do purify leech
wary ice
^
white wyvern
@young portal Yeah man could just be Bloodmallet throwing you off. The TD 3 + RP 3 does sim higher, but you can't use that under 59 corruption.
young portal
Massively appreciate your help lads thank you, will take Bloodmallet, etc with a pinch of salt in future
inland gull
for EV reducing effectiveness by 50% on tanks and maybe another 10-15% for dps would be fair i think
i mean 10-15 more nerf
stable isle
i dont mind if they reduce it a lot tbh, i have t2 on 420 boots and until i get more corruption resistance nothing is an upgrade over it
just feels bad
inland gull
my only corruption itrm is a t3 ev on a 445 ring
it does 9-12% overall in mythic+, i dont raid
quasi scroll
I have enough to buy another 465, any slot I should target or should I save for 475?
outer lotus
Save
quasi scroll
that's what I was thinking, ty
warm sable
Too late @frigid briar i purify my legs last week 🙈 it was Glimpse if clarity 😵
winter fulcrum
hey, i wanna know what kind of stuff do you guys do to optimize your damage to the highest, any tools or something?
winter fulcrum
in what way do you use logs to improve your performance?
vast forum
check what other people to
warm parcel
See what you do wrong
vast forum
if in the same fight, another rogue casts 2 more TBs than you, you're probably doing something wrong
unless he used a TB just before 10-15 sec of downtime
winter fulcrum
what about m+ logs? are there any?
and ways to see which azerite trait combos are best idk
warm parcel
there are
vast forum
for m+ i usually go for feelies
faint harness
the best players can pull off feelies
peak musk
https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/races/1t-t25-assassination
Hmm thought vulpera is the worst race 🤔
peak musk
damage wise
faint harness
you can boost the vulpera racial a fuckton with mainstat
i had 100k crits on M shadhar last night
with worldvein and font still up
and you can pair it with every other wv, quite sure
peak musk
ahhh okay, didn‘t know it scales that good
warm parcel
You only cast it during font?
outer lotus
Wonder if casting haymaker on kul tiran is worth it with wolrdvein/font
faint harness
like as soon as i have some time to use a gcd without capping energy in opener im throwing dat vial
just to get it within wv agi buff
silver cedar
is r3 lucid dreams in major really as good as bloodmallet says? (2nd best almost 1st)
outer lotus
Its so high on bloodmallet cuz the minor is so good
faint harness
just like botd major is also up there
cus minor is bonkers
fuck man, i could have gotten another bag of tricks in there
would be even more than 670 dps
faint harness
@rigid mango I used font/coral as you said yday
And holy crap it feels so much better
faint harness
not sure how many numbers the difference was
wanton pond
.>
faint harness
Vulpera racial
wanton pond
ah
faint harness
im not a furry
wanton pond
sure
faint harness
Vulpera is the only race with a jumping animation
faint harness
wanton pond
next thing you know