I do have other NP gear it just doesn't sim as high
#assassination
bronze wagon
maybe ill try simming with np on shoulder and shimmer chest
ember rover
bbi is like perfection for raiding.
cobalt pelican
something like this is probably more appropriate for your character currently
and it'll probably hold that this is best for you once you hit 65 assuming iris is best
ember rover
You have to also take into account that spymaster doesn't have Overwhelming.
While Shimmerscale does.
OP is actually insanely overtuned right now.
bronze wagon
what the heck how do crit gems make it go up so much i sim gems all the time it always tells me to put haste
cobalt pelican
you probably just have a habit of simming individual changes rather than together
and like
your weapon has no enchant
on your sim
so
bronze wagon
shit i had the wrong one on
yorue right
usually its too many combinations to sim all the gems and azerite
ember rover
Buy premium raidbots.
It's super worth it.
But on the topic of spymaster(not shimmerscale), it's not actually BiS.
All our BiS pieces have OP on 3rd ring.
cobalt pelican
huh
ember rover
I am bad.
cobalt pelican
it's pretty much a tossup between ceph and blackwater, depending on how much your current gear wants mastery
but loyal has non-sim upsides so blackwater is generally considered better if they're anywhere close to each other
cobalt pelican
it's a trait that was designed to have a downside
but the downside basically doesn't work
like even if you're taking damage consistently similar to jaina the op stack stepdown is nowhere near aggressive enough to put it near other traits
verbal knot
Hmm my sim went down by about 2k dps
aha found the culprit, was going to ask if I missed any changes
bleak spoke
Man if azshara didn’t have p1 I think the fight would be so fun
It really fucking owns when your holy priest random dies to a cutter I love that shit
bleak spoke
It also really fucking owns that he’s playing holy instead of disc
bleak spoke
Man I’m kidney bitch
And people don’t kick right so the tank gets owned randomly by the freeze and 3 orb overlap
I just want this tier to be over I’m so done
ember rover
You don't lose that much when you go for Kidney.
bleak spoke
I have to Tb it cuz our range are monkeys
ember rover
The way I do it is I stack 5 CPs on Boss target 1 then kidney 2 seconds into add spawning, rupture + garrote it and go refresh dots on boss target 2.
I have 6 bleeds rolling, so not that much of a loss for the kidney.
ember rover
Your ranged suck 😄
2nd hulk is supposed to be blasted by your healers with mecha trinket.
fleet whale
just got a 430 font!
cobalt pelican
looks good, probably a small gain to swap force to deadly but not a big deal
bronze wagon
@cobalt pelican with bote hmmm
not sure if my stats are wrong for it
i used to use/love bote3
would love to use it again
ember rover
You're still gonna use BotE for last 2 bosses, though,.
bronze wagon
okay, my guilds on orgazoa still so im not sure
cobalt pelican
yeah
raven mica
cuz of VoP and lining it up with vendetta or what...
drifting cloud
yeah
double delirium is basically a bitch job, you probably overgear it anyways so vop technically isnt needed
but who cares
aslong as the boss dies
raven mica
im only asking cuz my other rogue is gone tonight and ive been progging this fight as outlaw the whole damn time
so my RL was all like MUFFIN YA GOTTA PLAY SIN
drifting cloud
cds on 1st puncture, and both deliriums rest youre basically afk
just make sure you dont get knocked out of 1st one before dark passage is cast
raven mica
BOTE isnt up for first delirium puncture if I use it on first puncture
raven mica
But theyre back up for echo if I use it on the first delirium puncture as well
so wouldnt I Pull>first delirium puncture>both echos
arctic walrus
first dmg amp happens like 20s before delirium
Oh, I guess shit might be different cuz a lot of people are running the don't stop cds strat
drifting cloud
just a dumb fight, good mechanics but how they interact with eachother
you can just do the fight full pepega mode to make it easier
raven mica
yea the only thing I dont have for first echo is vanish
drifting cloud
yeah like I said not sure how you do the boss
but we also had to stop dps before 50% for a few seconds
ember rover
You get vendetta + BotE for both delirium echoes with visions on zaqul.
Also, if you play CLF, you're inting your delirium team mates as the elemental nukes them.
shut pike
Sup guys trinket question, I have both coral and font on atm but on which bosses should I swap to ink pod. Thinking is it worth it on mythic ashvane and which others?
ember rover
I dont believe there's a single boss where inkpod is better than font.
Maybe Orgozoa with echoing blades pad build.
But that's about it.
rigid mango
Coral inkpod is really really good on zaq if you're playing around the overlap to happen
With the amount of haste you get all the time, you gain stupid amounts of stacks and it's probably better than font
ember rover
Coral + Font allows you to have font for vendetta + bote on fist delirium add, and a high stacked coral and vendetta + bote for second delirium add.
rigid mango
And yet inkpod does more, granted you play the correct strat
Coral ink works on every fight too, for that matter
ember rover
How come inkpod does more?
arctic walrus
Inkpod usually gets popped around the time he's taking increased dmg
you can hit for 2mil+
ember rover
We're talking about killing the delirium add.
rigid mango
I'm talking overall usage
arctic walrus
Okay, inkpod gets value on both, font gets value on 1
and most of the time, by now I'm guessing, people have well enough damage to kill it without issue
steady owl
So there’s spriests doing 150k on Zaqul, is it possible to get anywhere close to that as sin?
drifting cloud
steady owl
Leech poison 😮
rigid mango
Obviously ye
If you go into delirium you get a stacking dot and rely on self sustain bec there's no healing
So leech poison is vital
vast forum
I have 2 pairs of duplicate azerite already
And we're probably not even halfway through the tier
lapis osprey
Sooo, undulating tides is terrible, but is it worse than Scent of blood?
I can't really sim it because knowing the uptime is somewhat out of my knowledge.
stable mica
heyo, i got a question, is inkpod damage increased by toxic blade? it deals nature dmg and i just realized it but i never tried to use toxic blade at the right time, or i did it unintentionaly
drifting cloud
its not
distant lava
No
stable mica
okey ty
ruby notch
hey guys, what traits/essences do you recommend for this weeks affixes?
rigid mango
3 ss 1 eb + anythign else
1 more eb tops, ttk, bbi
All good options.
@lapis osprey if you want more consistancy scent is better
lapis osprey
Ugh, I don't know which one to take..!
I know it's an illusion but scent of blood sims so very low..!
robust river
Is SS really good enough to triple stack for M+? That's nuts.
I really need to start swapping my traits around more often.
When does EB reset it's trait? Is it when you leave combat or on a timer?
worldly iron
Eb doesn't have a limit on how many times it can proc in combat, it's just the 5 first crits on your targets around you that echo
that's the limit
worldly iron
on every single fok
"Eb doesn't have a limit on how many times it can proc in combat"
robust river
But it has a limit of 5...? Wait is that 5 per target?
worldly iron
on every fok, you can echo 5 times
winter moss
5 per cast
worldly iron
yeah at first when I saw that trait I got tricked as well
rigid mango
It's capped at 5 crits per fok cast
robust river
Ah ok. I thought it was capped at proccing 5 times per total in combat which is why I always throught it was meh haha
rigid mango
Meaning it sorta scales exponentially but poorly after you reach "statistical" guaranteed crit
royal lantern
yeh, you notice it on different pull sizes
robust river
Obviously I never looked at sims or anything, I'm new here 😄
royal lantern
on like ~7-10 enemy you can blast pretty good
if the pull is even bigger, you will more or less ''stand still''and not do more dmg, while as an example, an dh or outlaw will pull even bigger numbers
robust river
Will see if I have any gear with it andgive it a whirl thise week.
On Azerite pieces, how much is trait vs ilvl. Like if I have 430 with "worse" traits than 415 (or just not the ones I want for the content, i.e. SS/EB or something) - Is there a guideline iLVL difference where having "worse" traits is still better?
Like "never drop mrore than 15 ilvl for a trait" or something?
rigid mango
Not really, no
robust river
I assume answer is sim it but wondering if there's a guideline
rigid mango
Mind you ilvl matters a bunch
royal lantern
its a tricky question for m+ imo
rigid mango
So unless the traits in question are really good v really bad
Most likely you pick the highest ilvl one
Granted you don't lose something that's "essential" for m+
Say, your first SS
robust river
Ok, so minimal iLVL difference. WHich means I can probably scrap some of my worse Azerite gear that I was holding onto "incase of traits"
rigid mango
Eh, I'd keep it
robust river
It's like 390-400 stuff haha
royal lantern
well, 390-400, ofc scrap that lel
dawn sinew
is it common for rogues for lower ilevel azerite pieces with better traits to out perform higher i level ones?
royal lantern
the right azerite has huge value
dawn sinew
is this because of our main stat not really being as big to us as say str is to ret pal or int to casters etc.
lost horizon
most dps specs have pretty low value for primary stat at this point
the ilvl disparity between azerite pieces definitely matters, but there's just a huge difference between a good trait and a bad one
dawn sinew
Is it normal to be energy starved after i get out my first cpl abilities? feels like im constantly reaching to get a mutilate in to get some combo points
in single target atleast so far i've noticed
sorry for all the ?'s new to rogue obviously
steep obsidian
are you running lucid dreams minor?
lost horizon
Sin isn't a GCD locked spec, optimal play involves some energy pooling
lost horizon
But haste/crit+lucid should help a lot like sad is saying
royal lantern
but yeha, like squawkk said, its normal that you need too wait 2-3 seconds for mut cast/you should do it too have energy for tb windows
lost horizon
Only time you're ever really GCD locked is like, during hero w/NP vendetta up
Or if you have bleeds rolling in AoE
dawn sinew
ok, guess just need to get used to the feeling of sometimes its ok to not be smashing buttons
royal lantern
sin has the lowest apm in the game 🤷
robust river
It feels slow at times. I think it's the lack of procs to respond to that sometimes make it feel slow though during the pooling times.
lost horizon
Wait what, how's that? @scarlet sequoia
distant lava
isn't it because it double counts mutilate tho ?
royal lantern
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
drifting cloud
royal lantern
did the same mistake once tbh
lost horizon
Quick post some high rank shit so no one can flame
scarlet sequoia
no one can flame anyways squawkk its ok
lost horizon
Change your name to 'Highest APM Rogue' or no balls
scarlet sequoia
hell no
royal lantern
highest apm in the west
lost horizon
2 casts for the price of one
drifting cloud
APM padder
cloud sandal
What are this week affoxes
dawn sinew
So is there a really big difference between outlaw and sin in m+?
if skill and gear was the same on two toons, and the dungeon was pulled similary in both, would outlaw be ahead?
royal lantern
outlaw is more easy too gear/play and has better utility
lost horizon
The actual damage output is pretty similar
raven mica
Outlaw has gouge, a spammable stun, can use vanish to cheese mechanics since it’s DPS neutral, longer melee range, more mobility, and its single target setup is the same as its AOE setup
Whilst providing similar damage output
robust river
Can I get your guys opinion on which azerite piece (430) i should roll for first?
HEADS
Fairweather Helm (420-NP/DD-TTK/SotD)
CHESTS
7th Legion (420-TTK/SoB-DD/BP)
Type II BOmber (420-SS/SOB-Clockwork-EB)
Spymaster (405-NP/EB-DD/ItP)
SHOULDERS
Gravethorn (420-TTK/SOB-DD/BP)
Gold Tassle (405-DD/EB-SS/TWinds)
raven mica
Sin might provide more damage though tbh idk I haven’t really seen a sin in M+ in action yet, then again I don’t watch wow streams cuz theyre kinda boring
royal lantern
sin shines in dungeons like KR
robust river
And anything specific i'm looking for. Got enough for 2 rolls.
royal lantern
with small pulls where your 3SS garrotes hits hard
lost horizon
What kind of content are you doing? @robust river
raven mica
When in doubt roll shoulders
royal lantern
but even in kr, you suffer cus outlaw has vanish for the 3rd boss
robust river
EP Heroic and M+. Highest M+ I've done in time is 9 atm.
Care more about EP probably.
Though M+ would be easier to improve my gear.
lost horizon
The chest from behemoth is good, head from Zaq is also good
raven mica
Orgo shoulders ain’t bad either
lost horizon
I'd probably agree to just go shoulders, but you can use droptimizer on raidbots to check and see
Yeah orgo and radiance shoulders are actually both usable
raven mica
ideal setup would be zaq/gorak timbs/cephalo or behemoth
robust river
So shoulders but check droptomiser? Or do I save for a 445 in a week or two?
dawn sinew
do you guys use dungeon slice to sim for m+?
raven mica
Since it’ll be your only source of 445 Azerite
lost horizon
But if you're looking to get into a group and need gear to keep up... Then you may need to bite the bullet and go for 430s just so that you're geared enough to not be a complete carry
@dawn sinew slice isn't great for sin
robust river
Yeah that's what I'm thinking... Grab a 430 for each slot, even if suboptimal, then save for 445
In droptomiser, which content do you select for azerite vendor?
lost horizon
Like at this point you're super far behind, do you have a guild that'll be running you through heroic or no?
raven mica
Idk how people play WoW without guilds tbh
robust river
We're a group of mates that only just came back to BFA
So we cleared normal EP last week
Starting on Heroic this week
So it'll not be a super quick profression
progression*
raven mica
Oh you’re progging heroic
sour wasp
you can play without guilds on high pop servers @raven mica
lost horizon
Are they in a similar gear state?
lost horizon
Honestly I might still just save if I were you
sour wasp
yeah, i'd save too
raven mica
Nah dude it’s fucking impossible, pug raids are a fucking nightmare, pug keys without already being in the M+ community are even more of a nightmare
lost horizon
Because you can get by with behemoth chest and radiance shoulders
Which will be super easy to pick up
robust river
So just run normal for 415 version of them?
raven mica
I lived that life in antorus, it’s how I got my AOTC that tier, I couldn’t stand it
lost horizon
Yeah, but it shouldn't take you long to get those bosses down on heroic either
sour wasp
@raven mica there are bosses that are pug destroyers, but atleast this patch getting 3/8m with pugs is pretty easy
i also got like 4 curves pugging
raven mica
Heroic pugs are fucking awful
Idk
In Uldir I could pug mother but that’s about it
On my alt’s
lost horizon
Pug zek sounds yikes
Was it an actual pug or just joining some guild group you weren't a part of?
sour wasp
actual
tropic ocean
^Nah dude it’s fucking impossible, pug raids are a fucking nightmare, pug keys without already being in the M+ community are even more of a nightmare
lul
dark crag
Ml +16, druid is too dumb for deathskip. All dead, tank leaves. Enough time for 2nd skip + bosskill
royal lantern
td17, tank dies, screams at our disc priest why he doesnt do a cr, priest tells him that he doesnt have a cr, tank calls him a tard and leaves the group
pug keys
rigid mango
RH 2019, morons typing in sin about keys they've done, fully knowing it's the wrong channel
worldly iron
rigid mango
dark crag
Td 15 before canon nerf. I tricks tank and kill adds. Priest doesn't like my shooting, gets in next canon, hits mobs and gets deleted from canon, leaves the group
royal lantern
stop it, or zine poops a vein
dark crag
I have many more
stuck knoll
Stop it or I make you
dark crag
Felrush with shroud through the mobs in ur
teal mesa
How reliable is dslice for sin?
rigid mango
Not at all
teal mesa
Well damn.
Is there anyway for us to sim m+ then? Or do we just go by feel/what's recommended?
sour wasp
@rigid mango looking good today
teal mesa
I was trying to sim the 450 engi head with ttk/normalization vs a 435 head with ttk/eb. Obviously I lose st damage with the 435 but I wasn't sure if the aoe increase would outweigh it for m+.
rigid mango
@sour wasp
sour wasp
if that was your only eb, it sure will outweigh it @teal mesa
teal mesa
Ah okay, thanks for the advice.
robust river
To run 3 SS 2 EB you have to run Extravagant Epaulettes and Type II Bomber don't you? I'm not seeing any other gear pieces that have both
So Mythic - 3 SS, 1+ EB
What's standard raid trait priority? NP > DD > TTK > SS? >>>> SOB/EB? I assume 1 NP, 2-3 DD 2-3 TTK would be ideal?
Or just sim it?
primal zodiac
can someone explain the usage of font+coral to me ? like is it better to use font 20s before vendetta and have 10s with vendetta coral and font or is it better ~10sec before vendetta to have font up for the whole vendetta window?
earnest hare
hidden blades or poison bomb for m+? a lot of the higher rated sins are using HB
heavy trail
@primal zodiac 
in #tc-research
primal zodiac
oh thanks, i checked pins here, but didnt find the combination of both
rigid mango
The pins link to #tc-updates
primal zodiac
tbh the stuff in TC simply confused me, so i googled how to read apl out of sim results, result being in my case ~15sec before vendetta is font channel time
rigid mango
There's a paragraph in tc updatea
uncut cave
are you supposed to use envenom inside the EP window? so when its on 0.1 sec left or so. would it be a huge dps loss if i didn't
rigid mango
That should be pretty self-explanatory
Yes you should, and no it's very minor
I wasn't answering you (:
It's minmaxing and most of the time you'll be gaining EP damage from just playing without thinking about it
fallow estuary
Can someone link me a Sim 53k+ ?
rigid mango
@scarlet sequoia
arctic walrus
Zine there's a dude simming 53k in outlaw now 
robust river
Master Assassin vs Subterfuge. Does it basically depend on how many DD vs SS you are running?
fallow estuary
@scarlet sequoia thanks m8
bronze kelp
if you have 1 ss you would go subter
winter gale
Guys, on Court Mythic when Repeat Silence thing is up
Whats the best way to deal with that ?
crystal vessel
I throw a dagger.
winter gale
I am also doing that
rigid mango
You press any utility button
worldly iron
Detection
rigid mango
Or just take the silence
winter gale
Poisoned knife
robust river
Just use your normal rotation, your playing assassination you can deal with the down time haha
rigid mango
PK is bad
worldly iron
Use detection
crystal vessel
What is the upgrade priority for benthic gear?
winter gale
But its 40 energy so I assumed its energy loss
worldly iron
detection is free
robust river
blind is free too, can only use once though
worldly iron
detection has no cooldown
worldly iron
just use detection, it's a shorter gcd too
robust river
Can you still use track herbs anyhwere? I wonder if other classes could use that?
rigid mango
Just go get it from orderhall
crystal vessel
I have them all. Just need to know what’s biggest damage increase. Or if the difference is negligible and just upgrade them in any order.
distant lava
upgrade prio is wrist > gloves > waist > boots
crystal vessel
Thank you @distant lava
covert tapir
Which is better the engineering helm or circlet of the Enveloping leviathan?
swift moss
covert tapir
I think the circlet might have better traits but the engineering has that normalizing thing (not sure if that super good or not)
covert tapir
Gonna sim it out. Just didn’t know if the difference was drastic or not
Also is there like a tier list of what azerite pieces are the best like 1. Gorak tul mantle 2. .. 3. ...
formal willow
i got the azshara gloves on 440. how does it fare against the benthic ones? is it still worthwhile to roll them? or should i go for the belt then instead
arctic walrus
It all depends on your other pieces we can't give you a cut and dry list
teal mesa
According to patchwerk sims, my 430 beauty gloves with socket are an increase over 425 benthic gloves with socket. Do I trust the sim? 🤔
covert tapir
49.5k ain’t bad I just wanna so more
tropic ocean
@teal mesa tick „in nazjatar“ in options box
teal mesa
I have. ^^
tropic ocean
aha
arctic walrus
Which gloves
teal mesa
Comparing Gloves of Incomparable Beauty with Poen's Deepsea Grips
teal mesa
I don't have the gloves yet, I was running droptimizer to check whether worth farming.
arctic walrus
Azshara gloves are not bad at all. You can try seeing in gear compare if a different gem might be better
radiant locust
damn didn't catch that fok buff in the patch notes
deft nymph
seems like that'd definitely favor deeper strategem ay
vast forum
oldschool anticipation eh?
royal lantern
not really assassination related, but looks the same for me
daring cave
Yay for a 455 socket ring.. that only adds 93 dps
royal lantern
dont mind me with my 415 ring
daring cave
Rofl I'd trade it for a dagger
covert tapir
I swear I think I’ve gotten 4 capes in a row for the weekly cache. Never a dagger or a ring
turbid osprey
oblique sundial
guys is materpoisoner better than elaborate planning for M+ ?
stuck knoll
No
oblique sundial
ty
royal lantern
EP is a 10% dmg increase all the time
master poisoner is only for your poisons, wich is your weapon poison/envenom
and the majority of your aoe dmg in dungeons is bleed/physical from fok spam
oblique sundial
oh got it, ty for answer
vestal wren
EP is the only good pick in the first talent row sadly
ember rover
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dark crag
bote lucid+vop for 1. and 2. split add?
arctic walrus
Yes
hidden bay
53k sim? am i too late? 
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4781xavVaP5KkBMGQqUad5
desert vault
What second minor is good for m+ just bote again? I really need to pvp I guess
rigid mango
Bote is the major
You run lucid and conflict as minors
Maybe even puri proto but really unsure about the strength of it
sick eagle
Hello could somebody help with my logs, feels like I am doing some minor thing wrong and not reaching my dps potential
rigid mango
You got parried
You fucked your 2nd font and stuff a bit
missing a couple of GCD's of vend in font
missed a GCD of coral
small fiber
do we use unbridled fury or stat potion
or both
the first at pull
the other during fught
rigid mango
fury
sick eagle
what exactly happened with 2nd font?
rigid mango
You just fucked up timings a bit
vendetta a bit too late
Coral a bit late
small minmax
sick eagle
was able to reach 52k one time (4:20 fight but guild didn't log) and ever since then wasn't able to break 50k (2 weeks), so I thought maybe I am fucking something up but I guess nothing I can't fix
sick eagle
Checked sim rotations and "it" used coral stacks after TB Vanish window, does that even make sense?
rigid mango
According to what koji found then it was gain
he was doing maths on it now though, and Idk if he got to anything better
Use it like you are, minor gain/loss either way
sick eagle
ok ty
winter gale
If I am using font on Lady mythic but keeping cds for 1st shield break
When do I use font ?
On opener or right before shield breaks ?
Anyone ?
arctic walrus
"keeping CDs" refers to font as well
verbal knot
What do you guys feel is the required group dps for mythic Ashvane
rigid mango
rigid mango
Catch the hint
hallow coyote
So here are some Mythic Logs of mine. If anyone feels like looking them over, could I get some feedback on my performance? I'm not parsing especially well and I'm trying to figure out if it's my gear or if I am just not playing very well
Character name is Rhygar
arctic walrus
you need to figure out your opener
All 3 of these bosses had a wrong opener
Like really wrong
You could use some better azerite, and possibly iris minor instead of flame
Your coral use is wrong
hallow coyote
Sivara was a garbage pull because two people put down the fucking Brewfest trophy. What's the proper opener for Behemoth? Just open on the boss and then move back to the pufferfish for the buff?
deft nymph
every single time i've tried opening on the boss
i get the tank debuff
and then i can't get the pufferfish debuff until it falls off
hallow coyote
Ooof yeah, probably worth missing out on some DPS to avoid that
bitter nacelle
Does elusiveness dmg reduction stack with the AOE dmg reduction you already get from feint still?
bitter nacelle
It used to before and at the beginning of legion, didnt know if they changed it
sand whale
@hallow coyote dunno about garbage pulls even for a bad pull just don't panick and waste vanish like that lol https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PBHqZ6YN3Q27zfJk#fight=8&type=casts&source=7&view=events
just take a look at this and tell yourself where you went wrong
oh and the actual dmg timeline sorry just looking at your CD usage
also gonna assume you don't do any m+ or pvp
crucible as 3rd essence?
hallow coyote
Why wouldn't you vanish if you couldn't start the fight in stealth? Just sitting on it seems stupid
I do M+ but I was pretty sure Crucible simmed better for me than Iris minor. No, I don't do PvP though so I don't have Blood of the Enemy
sand whale
your damage amp comes from trinkets + CDs + MA, sure it was a bad pull but just m/g/r which ever get your dots rolling pop your CDs and then vanish
hallow coyote
Ah that makes more sense
sand whale
also I dunno if your log is bugged or you're just not using your font properly
all 3 bosses showing you used it once
with sivara at pretty much 0 uptime
but that's probably why you're parsing bad, mixture of of those gear is somewhat the case but it's just not getting fundamentals right
hallow coyote
Yeah I hate having two use trinkets a lot. I'm considering swapping one out for a 430 Socketed Inkpod
fallow estuary
did they nerf benthic gear?
rigid mango
No?
rigid mango
Never has been
fallow estuary
same for crit boots
upper canyon
wew 5% would be so much damage
rigid mango
Wrong
fallow estuary
Okay - then just my imagination
sand whale
@hallow coyote ah my bad figured it out apart from only 1 font usage on sivara the other 2 is there but the usage of both isn't right
https://i.imgur.com/CO6wqsx.png this is from behemoth
then radiance https://i.imgur.com/yKFma8K.png
if you time the usage right you should be getting a bit of overlap
just going from usage I'm getting you're use to 1 trinket set up using coral with 2nd vendetta and probably went oh shit probably shoulda fonted first
here's the top log for sivara https://i.imgur.com/hDdQvWl.png this is generally how you want to play the trinkets, inkpod is nice but you already your 2 bis https://i.imgur.com/hDdQvWl.png
lastly get benethic + socket gear okay rambling over
hallow coyote
Thanks man, I really appreciate the help
sand whale
np ps get the boots, really get them you'll love them
digital briar
Hello fellas. I’ve been playing outlaw rogue for all of legion and bfa, but after running with my friend in M+ (what I do mainly other than heroic re clears) I want to get into assasination so I can have better consistent boss dmg. However, I have no fricking clue what I’m doing and the YouTube video from dalarsn only talks single target which is oddly specific on opener rotation. Here’s what I know and what I want to know
- Always keep my bleeds up garrote highest priority, rupture, envenom, toxic blade when off CD
- If I have 4 combo points from mutilate I use a spender? Or do I always always go for 5cp?
- On aoe I should talent into subterfuge out of master assasin(ST) and I should garrote 3 different enemies then fan spam and spend on ruptures.
Any help is appreciated. I don’t have logs unfortunately.
rigid mango
All of these questions should be answered by reading the guide connected to this discord, it's a good guide for learning the barebones basics that you're looking for
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
lost tree
Coral + Inkpod = let coral stack till 30.5% or use itr earlier?
rigid mango
use with each vend
lost tree
okay thanks
dark crag
With bote lucid and vop, how are the timings at zaqul if i do first delirium, 1st split and 2nd split? Vend bote together on cd+ vanish every other vend?
muted maple
3rd rainment of the blighted tribe in a row from my resi purchases 
rigid mango
You should be able to get vend vanish and bote in delirium
And then vend bote for 1st echo which should melt
strange python
where are the scissors ?
rigid mango
and vend vanish bote again for the 2nd echo
dark crag
Vend vanish bote in first delirium?
polar cape
Depend on your dmg on it
rigid mango
Yes
You should use vend vanish and bote in first, non-echo delirium
if you're going there
it means you're maximising damage in there, whilst also not missing a vanish cast on either echo
First one melts
dark crag
We do a stupid dmg stop up to tentacle spawn after dread
rigid mango
2nd one needs more damage
Yeah, that's a standard strat
I'd recommend the burn strat tho
imo it's a lot nicer and simpler to play
dark crag
I need good arguments to convince raidleads
rigid mango
It's simpler
Tadaa
It's super braindead, you have to focus less on menial things
and just the fight
It aligns well for your (and most people's) cd's
zenith nova
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dark crag
Don't underestimate my raidleads, we took ages to convince them to try 2 phase at ashvane
shut garnet
whats the proper usage of coral on qc
everyone seems to be using it thought it seems really awkward
crystal vault
can you cloak the "beam" on azshara which is splitting the room ?
drifting cloud
yes
tropic ocean
and you can shadowstep through it too
strange python
no more trixx
tropic ocean
@shut garnet depends on ur raid and dps i used it when we needed to push spark fast
I guess if you dont have issues with that just with vendetta
strange python
😮
gloomy slate
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
shut garnet
so its ok to use at 2nd set of sparks after dotting both bosses and then tunnel spark?
i shall try that next reclear, tyvm ausgel
bronze wagon
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
marble elm
shut pasture
battlenet/itemrestore
marble elm
nah its a duplicate
jolly agate
Is there a higher ilvl of Type II Bomber jacket?
drifting cloud
nope
jolly agate
Sigh, it's a really good piece for M+
gray citrus
raven mica
Thats a lotta combo points.
grave trail
so for mythic orgozoa whats the best set up other than that triple echoing blades + 2 scent of blood bs
and not looklike shit on parses
cobalt pelican
just play full st and play reasonably well
arctic walrus
You won't parse high unless you go full aoe
hoary apex
anything I am doing wrong on this mythic ashvane fight? I see rogues doing like 50k+ and I have no idea how. I'm Kalamek the rogue. Maybe not using worldvein? I think my gear is fine... https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BH4kNfJKyp9jd8mV/#fight=26
teal stratus
when you sim Poen's it always sims full damage right?
arctic walrus
No font, SS build, wrong pot, worldvein is horrible never take it, you need to full commit cds to either on pull or during first break, line up your vanish with vendetta after opener, and boss is only at 70% so you can't really judge how well you're gonna be doing at the end of the pull
@hoary apex
raven mica
92% garrote uptime too
teal stratus
and never proccing its healing portion?
teal stratus
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cvfyRQwgfSScWy6Je3tgqS then I just need to bite the bullet and take the -70 sim dps huh
grave trail
does inkpod suck for progression orgozoa
im running inkpod/coral
cause i dont have font
grave trail
i usually parse purple but orgozoa parsing low blue/greenish
trying to figure out why
cobalt pelican
don't pay attn to parses on orgozoa if you're still progressing
worry about whether you're meeting the push timer your guild want to meet or not
cobalt pelican
no reason to not play sin either really
grave trail
M+ and mythic raiding?
cobalt pelican
hwat
drifting cloud
lol
cobalt pelican
outlaw is worse for every fight on progress
grave trail
and M+ outlaw is just better
cobalt pelican
except orgozoa, probably
arctic walrus
grave trail
have you seen the logs?
cobalt pelican
and then i'd argue sub is better for progress than outlaw but that is very comp dependant
arctic walrus
I've seen logs, but do you know how to interpret them
cobalt pelican
yes i am well aware that outlaw can hit 5 things badly at a time
lost horizon
pad doesn't do anything for prog
if your group needs add damage (for orgo specifically) then outlaw is your best bet
but there's plenty of other specs that can cover it
cobalt pelican
then you're probably just playing very badly
lost horizon
if that's outlaw, play outlaw
grave trail
i dont have th egear for it cause i commited sin otherwise would
lost horizon
but understand that how you feel isn't relevant to everyone
grave trail
true numbers dont lie tho 😉
lost horizon
flip to boss damage and take a look again
drifting cloud
🙂
arctic walrus
grave trail
how many guilds have killed azshara
cobalt pelican
like 200 smth? no idea
grave trail
better question have you killed azshara?
arctic walrus
cobalt pelican
no it's still a work in progress for me
lost horizon
37 outlaw parses on azshara
arctic walrus
You won't see someone playing outlaw because it's the better spec
lost horizon
285 sin
grave trail
whats that outlaw on top XD
cobalt pelican
how many of those are chinese
lost horizon
trust me
cobalt pelican
i wonder
arctic walrus
Outlaw cleaves hehe xd but big numbers mean better spec
cobalt pelican
let's see
drifting cloud
you have blue name, you wouldnt lie to us squawkk
cobalt pelican
?
lost horizon
that's all though, bad for everything else ofc
cobalt pelican
like
grave trail
never said sin is bad
cobalt pelican
i think i know only one non-chinese rogue who's cleared content who played outlaw for all of progress (besides zaqul)
grave trail
outlaw has everything it needs
cobalt pelican
and that's lok
grave trail
if i want to aoe and cleave with sin
cobalt pelican
it's not some super sekrit op
grave trail
i have to change everything
cobalt pelican
you just don't understand how killing bosses works apparently
lost horizon
right, but you could just stay ST for orgo
grave trail
yeah cause adds are not important right
cobalt pelican
that depends on your raid?
lost horizon
boss dmg is what's important if you need to push before X arcing
cobalt pelican
doing 50k ad dps when they're dying 30 seconds before they realistically need to is effectively a 0 gain
if anything it's a raid loss
because while outlaw gains st from wits
it's not comparable
to ele/sp/whatever
grave trail
again never said sin sucks but outlaw is a much well rounded spec
for all fights in ep
lost horizon
your number won't be biggest if you play ST sin on orgo
visual quartz
well i mean a Fure warr doing 80k zaqul and asn doing like 50k, but you have 2-4mill more boss dmg done...seems good
cobalt pelican
ending up on the top of the meter on your 800th wipe on orgozoa is kinda fruitless don't you think
drifting cloud
well you are wrong
arctic walrus
All you are doing is going to top logs, seeing outlaw at the top of a few fights, then generalizing that into an arguement where outlaw is the superior raid spec, which it is not
lost horizon
but you'll still be contributing hugely cause you should be topping boss damage
you're saying outlaw is better, it's better at padding on bosses where you can pad
grave trail
never said its better
visual quartz
O.o
lost horizon
which has value sometimes like orgo if you need adds
cobalt pelican
in what way in a raid environment is the spec more well rounded
lost horizon
cobalt pelican
what happens if you need to kill a mob in a specific timeframe
do you pop ar
and go ham
sinister striking at the speed of light
what happens if you have high downtime fights
do you just
spam detection
arctic walrus
"well rounded" just means more dull at either ends of the spectrum
grave trail
high downtime fights? l0l
cobalt pelican
?
drifting cloud
go outlaw, kill orgo
cobalt pelican
ok
lost horizon
outlaw is 100% playable and that's awesome, but the reality is it's a step behind sin in raid, because sin has better ST, better kit to deal with downtime, and better burst
drifting cloud
dont come crying back here when youre useless on qc
arctic walrus
Do I agree that outlaw is more forgiving in setups and playability? Yes. But does that make it better, no
lost horizon
and again, this is your opinion, you should play outlaw since you feel this way
visual quartz
Feeding the troll, its too late for this lol
grave trail
oh trust me i would if had gear for it
lost horizon
but don't try to justify it other than personal preference
grave trail
having different opinions = trolling XDDD
cobalt pelican
most of the gear is shared outside irontide tbhtbh
grave trail
weapons make huge difference
lost horizon
because most fights it won't help your prog more than sin would
arctic walrus
You can have a different opinion it's just the wrong one
lost horizon
blackwater chest, radiance shoulders, sivara helm
azerite donezo
pick up a weapon off siv OR behemoth
grave trail
never seen a weapon drop from blackwater
lost horizon
go dagger offhand
drifting cloud
well thats what I said, just mh weapon is important
lost horizon
e z
grave trail
dagger offhand? that works?
lost horizon
yes
cobalt pelican
it's a very well rounded spec ofcourse it can use all weapons
lost horizon
if you play both you only really need 1 actual outlaw weapon
grave trail
l0l
ok
you think its worth rolling for gorak tul's mantle or saving 200k opinions?
arctic walrus
always gamble
grave trail
1/6 you good odds in your opinion,?
like if i get one piece i can get it again correct
are*
lost horizon
if you're going outlaw radiance shoulders are pretty good (not bad for sin either tbh)
grave trail
IF you get it lol im too scared to roll
lost horizon
if it were really early on saving could be worth but by this point just gamble
grave trail
naw im too committed to sin plus i hav 450 dager with socket
arctic walrus
You can save 6-8 weeks, be my guest
grave trail
dagger*
arctic walrus
But will you really care about gorak's in 2 months
grave trail
true
arctic walrus
When in theory, you can get it as soon as next week
grave trail
but what im scared is if i spendmore than 200k in the long run
arctic walrus
Then you would be very unlucky.
steep obsidian
Unless you are going for like world first it doesn’t matter tbh
arctic walrus
I mean at this point yeah who cares, but it's still worth to gamble
grave trail
i mean i already have triple dose on a 435 piece but i feel blightborne + overwhelming will make huge dif
or naw
lost horizon
if you're going for wf you don't have time to save for a specific piece anyway tbh
steep obsidian
I’ve been trying to get slithering loa helm and got the same helm 3 times the bet helm is almost as good though
lost horizon
sim it out see how big it is
grave trail
How do i do that.
lost horizon
steep obsidian
Droptimiser?
grave trail
yeah no shit lol oh true
drifting cloud
if you have a 435 you should be aiming to get radiance shoulderrs atleast
grave trail
forgot that was athing
steep obsidian
Orbgear compare
lost horizon
lol
grave trail
droptimizer is a thing i forgot about
grave trail
yeah im currently spending rolls of radiance but no luck
steep obsidian
I had a decent night last night got abyssal dagger 450
grave trail
ok
steep obsidian
Fgm
grave trail
for* cant type for shit
steep obsidian
Got the orgozoa dagger but my 430 socket prolly better
grave trail
orgozoa dagger?
steep obsidian
Council then
grave trail
ah
steep obsidian
Missing zaqul prog tonight coz I have to house sit for a week bet they kill it
grave trail
zaqul is a gatekeeper dw
steep obsidian
Well we got past first split so we aren’t doing horribly I suck ass at spotting tentacles from melee but the tanks carry me a bit
drifting cloud
I thought you said you are on orgo
arctic walrus
You can always dodge them as long as you're always moving
the key is not to hesitate/second guess
grave trail
i feel the hitbox or where it spawns is so inaccurate sometimes from what it shws
drifting cloud
you go left then turn right for style points
worldly iron
straying away from #assassination
grave trail
huh?
worldly iron
it's a spec channel, for talk related to assassination
grave trail
gotcha boss
soft steppe
does the nothing personal trait stack?
drifting cloud
the dmg part
soft steppe
ty
grave trail
do you guys try to set up coral for inkpod to crit just curious
lost horizon
nah
grave trail
ok
heady ridge
can anyone help me find out what did I do wrong? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZAtDW6LqrXCkwayK/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=20 did almost a million more damage on a 12% run than the kill :/ (wipe 10 was my highest damage)
lost horizon
just skimmed but
you had a ton of TBs with only 1 envenom
and you refreshed rupture during TB a lot
you want to plan your rupture duration around TB so that you don't have to refresh during
your 2nd, 5th, 7th, and 9th TB all only had one envenom cast during
not insane but you should never have mut CP wasted
heady ridge
ah yeah, that happens to me cuz sometimes ashvane parries my envenom ..or so i think
lost horizon
you also cast a couple finishers at 3CP
if you get parried don't stand in front of her, and that doesn't seem to be the case for those issues i pointed out
you ended up getting one envenom parried on your kill
heady ridge
its difficult for me to stand behind her because of how the tanks position her
lost horizon
even so, that wasn't the problem
heady ridge
yeah i guess
about the wipe 10 one, did i do things slightly better or do i have the same mistakes
lost horizon
you have a lot of the same problems in wipe 10
don't look at the 'parse' for wipes
it doesn't mean much
heady ridge
i don't really care about parse that much, I just wanted to know how did i do an extra million when overall the boss was hit 12% less
lost horizon
your kill you had 46.6k dps, wipe 10 you had 43k
the boss just lived longer on wipe 10
kill duration 4:36
wipe 10 5:14
heady ridge
ideally still using them on cd, right?
lost horizon
yes, just plan around it ahead of time
pool energy and check remaining bleed durations ahead of it coming off CD
also why are you desynching your font from vendetta?
heady ridge
alright that sounds reasonable
lost horizon
can just put out a coral on pull and use TBs
then font ~10sec before shield breaks
and combine coral in the last ~10sec of your vendetta like usual
heady ridge
hm.. particularly for this fight i'm pretty sure that would be difficult to pull off since 10s before shield break im probably either getting out of the briny bubble's area or breaking them
lost horizon
you won't be doing much bubble damage anyways tbh
heady ridge
i still just try to put a rupture on it and the poison so i get energy back
lost horizon
if it's farm and you're just looking for damage then you should be lining up your font
if you not being on bubbles will cause wipes then i guess you gotta prioritize
heady ridge
well my raiders bitch a lot about bubbles so yeah i gotta do it
i'll have it in mind though
lost horizon
just put out a rupture then channel imo
or channel 4 seconds before bubbles go out (so you can move out of the upsurge)
either way will be better than randomly fonting out of synch
lost horizon
that's all that i really looked at, only other thing is you were a little slow to actually start on the boss
can shadowstep to her right on pull
heady ridge
yeah i noticed that everytime i just sprint towards her when i could be shadowstepping
mostly did sprint so i could follow her when the tanks move her to the wall
but i guess shadowstep does the job too since it gives speed
lost horizon
yeah, can shadowstep -> sprint when she's mobile
heady ridge
also its kinda because on orgozoa pulls if i shadowstep , orgozoa melees me
lost horizon
yeah, don't step to orgo
heady ridge
:3
pliant wing
Hi everyone, need some tips too, heres my logs, i only parse 60 on ilvl, can someone tell me what am i missing ?
https://fr.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VBhwNrQxqpz3ZHjA/#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=9
I try to pull every TB and EP proc but i guess theres something wrong :/
hoary apex
@arctic walrus 455 dice sims better than 430 font for me. I thought ss build is better given my 450 azerite options. Is unbridled fury the right pot then? Will def switch out worldvein. Lining up all damage cds makes sense. I guess I don’t have hero boost, but is there any other reason ending dps would be higher or lower?
lost horizon
@timber meadow you simmed w/0 loyal to the end allies
timber meadow
ah okay, lil more reasonable
was just bout to test it
prob get a couple hundred dps from findin a mythic dagger or two
lost horizon
a 445 mainhand would probably be like 500+ DPS
timber meadow
yeah
guess my assa gear isn't as bad as i thought
at what threshold you think it's worth throwin in the 2nd loyal?
saw you did that with the 4 allies
lost horizon
for raid sin is actually pretty straightforward to gear for
w/4 loyal allies you get max value
my raid has like 9 people using it so i just put it to cap at all times
the stat buff from someone w/loyal dying is also insane
not something you can always count on, but it's pretty nutty
lost horizon
but yeah 50-52k is good if you're progging second half of the raid
not really
ideally you end up with 0-1
though i think realistically 1 is preferred to 0
lost horizon
cephalohide and blackwater are the competing 0 and 1 loyals
gorak is bis by a decent margin
tentacle laced spaulders are decent as well
actually i take it back
ideal azerite is more like 0-2
cause of zaq helm
timber meadow
im really surprised tbh that slithering loa hood beats out commander helm
op i guess is just that good and swirling sands isn't that aweful
lost horizon
why?
rigid mango
Why's that
lost horizon
yeah OP is insane
rigid mango
Swirl is bonkers
lost horizon
and crit is busted af
rigid mango
Op is bonkers
timber meadow
I don't play assasin a lot so I just figured dd/ttk was like what you were aimin for
just didn't realize how good the stat from sands was
rigid mango
How'd you figure that 
lost horizon
first is better than subsequent
lost horizon
but if you had DD instead of TTK on blackwater it'd be a lot better
there's just no chests w/2 really good standalone traits + OP
TTK being 'meh' is maybe downplaying it, it's not bad just behind a lot of the good neutral stat traits
like bbi swirling and loyal
lost horizon
nah slithering loa is really good
zaq helm and 445 pvp helm are better that's about it
blackwater is also roughly tied for best chest
timber meadow
yeah i really just need gorak
timber meadow
I still have 14 slots available
which is more than enough for anything I need to do in the game
lost horizon
timber meadow
😦
distant lava
Doing WQ with 14 spaces 
fair relic
is Worldvein now worth it as a minor since bliz said it's fixed?
eager river
stupid question, but can you not apply different poisons to your offhand than what your main hand has?
eager river
thought so, rip
eager river
dem new models tho
lusty narwhal
ya
opal meadow
Thoughts on briny bubble CP usage go:
(Assuming ashvane has rupture > 7 seconds ticking)
Rupture bubble for energy when it dies OR
Envenom bubble for chance of overkill damage
vestal wren
where are my combo points?
due to changes in spelldata and blizz missing to update the tooltip you will see a akwardly high cp generation amount for Fan of Knives. Cp generation works as usual.
Enjoy this beauty while it lasts.
solid nova
