Then turn the other one off.
#assassination
fringe pulsar
You lost me
fringe pulsar
fringe pulsar
civic palm
There's stuff in the bottom about zones and shit, anything that has text or options selected.
civic palm
I haven't changed anything in that stuff other than stopping Crippling from loading in Raid, dunnnoooo, tried reloading?
civic palm
From the first screenshot it doesn't look like either are LOADING at all, so there's something on the Load screen that isn't triggering them to load.
Sure you're the right spec? :3
civic palm
I am reaching.
civic palm
Yeah the WAs won't load unless you are in a dungeon/raid.
fringe pulsar
ohhhhhhhhh
civic palm
at the bottom of the Load tab there's specifics about that.
civic palm
Yeah I don't have that stuff load because I don't wanna see that I don't have poisons on when I am yapping in LFG about shit that doesn't amtter.
civic palm
Yeah at the bottom of the Load time IIRC.
peak saffron
"instance type"
fringe pulsar
civic palm
Yeah there's a giant multi-selection cluster in there.
fringe pulsar
I assume I want that?
civic palm
Ye.
peak saffron
yup
fringe pulsar
tyvm^^
civic palm
👍
fringe pulsar
your WA's are amazing ❤
peak saffron
what a dumb setting to have, am i right joey? you should hate him too
civic palm
Any other problems just DM me or ping me in here.
fringe pulsar
def ty
civic palm
:3
fringe pulsar
<>:D
balmy quest
Would Scent of Blood or Loyal to the End (assuming plenty of people have it in your raid) be better for Orgozoa padding logs?
arctic walrus
sob
balmy quest
thanks bae
sudden ocean
sob if you maintain it*
placid dawn
man, ashvanes stack rng is really shitty
heady ridge
how normal is bursting 100k then dpsing 10k?
sullen pagoda
how do u do 10k if u dont afk
heady ridge
I dont know, im seeing a uh.. ashvane M log
maybe I went to pop a bubble so the 10k are the dots
fierce pivot
If we are using nightstalker and we cast vendetta from stealth does it give nothing personal 50% more dmg?
sullen pagoda
no
sudden ocean
Definitely not chief
Please don’t use ‘we’ when you mention nighstalker, I don’t like being included in crimes
fierce pivot
So does master assasin add towards its chance of criting? if it can?
fierce pivot
and nothing personal can crit right?
rigid mango
I think you're basing too much thought arounf NP
strange python
What minimal ilvl should I take for M+, and what are best classes I can run with as an Assa Rogue?
Also, how can I change my Rogue roll to Assa in Ravenholdt lol
subtle tundra
@strange python m+ ilvl doesnt matter, you look at raider.io score
they can have 440+ ilvl and actually wear 430 in the dungeon
and do more damage than a 440
also the players skill matters a lot
strange python
Hey, can somebody help me improving with my rogue?
Here is a log of me: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8gXMpCv17WtH3cTa/#fight=1&type=damage-done
I know that benthic and all matters, but this is a reroll, so I'm only starting to farm them, but is there something else?
strange python
Eslead sorry^^
Thank you @fringe pulsar & @subtle tundra
What iO should you request for a good threshold then @subtle tundra ?
subtle tundra
for less than 10s you dont need to look at rio that much since the dungeon difficulty is much lower
@strange python uh you have 425 boots without socket uhhh
and no other benthic piece
i know you said about benthic but you upgraded to 425 without having other benthics, having all of them is priority
strange python
yup I know, I upgraded the boots while fishing for socketed pieces on my warlock to get enough ilvl to be taken in pugs, but that was dumb
I have 6 rerolls currently farming pearls so benthic should be ok soonish^^
subtle tundra
well gl on getting sockets
strange python
thanks^^
Already completed warlock and shadow, so if I'm unluck on rogue that's ok xD
rigid mango
@strange python you missed a tb cast, your opener is slightly wrong http://prntscr.com/ox7rqp
Early tb windows without 2 envenoms in them
You never get two envenoms in TB, it seems, which is real bad
You used the wrong prepot
strange python
Yeah I know with the prepot, and ty for the opener !
rigid mango
You're using one UT which is uhh, not recommendable
Do you pool a lot or do you just press buttons?
You should be consistantly getting 2+ envenoms inside of tb
strange python
I'm not really used to the energy gameplay, so I guees I just spam too much too
But I'll focus on that better
rigid mango
Aslong as your bleeds are up and you're not overcapping, you can do nothing and not lose dps
try to pool to as close to max, and then have windows where you slap envenoms, EP windows, TB windows, and so on
strange python
ok thank you^^
I'll try to fix that and come back to you if I have other issues
rigid mango
glgl 😄
glacial steppe
does TB affect Inkpod?
hoary crown
@rigid mango but if you have like no energy and u got full combo points and ep up, should u still use an envenom in that case?
rigid mango
@glacial steppe nah, tb is whitelisted 😄
@hoary crown depends on what you've got coming up soon
rigid mango
Also, bleeds
cobalt gyro
Ye. There's basically no downside to sitting and getting close to cap, as long as you don't cap, or drop bleeds while waiting
rigid walrus
how do you use font and razor coral in rotation together
is it font pre pull then razor and then coral before font on cd?
rigid mango
There's a paragraph in #tc-updates about it 😄
rigid walrus
cheers
strange python
Hi, I had a question concerning Echoing Blades, I was wondering how exactly it works, the tooltip mentions that each first crit, in sets of 5 will proc the EB, the question I have is, how exactly does it work mechanically?, I inferred it meant the following:
Each target maintains an crit counter and each time it reaches 5 stacks, it resets and allows the next FoK crit to proc EB on said target
As a follow up questions does the crit counter only refer to crits made by FoV or does it also include melee strikes/other sources of crit strikes? I'm assuming its only crits made by FoV
tidal jetty
I read it as "procs a hit on every FoK crit, up to 5 procs max"
so:
100% cirt with 5 mobs = 5 extra procs
100% crit with 100mobs = 5 ekstra procs
20% crit with 5mobs = 1 extra proc
20% cit with 10mobs = 2 extra procs
or something like that
cobalt gyro
It's for each crit, does the spray
Up to a maximum of 5 sprays per cast
So fok > crits 5 times, 5 sprays
Fok > crit 10x, 5 sprays still
amber quail
which 2nd minor you suggest guys?
sudden trench
Sim it bud
edgy pawn
lament hedge
When I look at others logs that have been posted here on the opener everyone seems to mutilate twice then rupture. Are we mutilating twice because of the auto crits, or do we roll right into rupture if we have 4 combo points?
edgy pawn
You mutilate twice in the ma window and rupture at 4+ cp
edgy pawn
So if youre at 4 after 1st mut you rupture
tropic ocean
Mut mut rup if it didnt
severe bough
How much is in average a third minor essence in dps?
cobalt pelican
2kish
royal lantern
you will get it WAY more easy in 2/3 days anyway, so why rush it 🤷
bright smelt
sin or sub for m+ to get some spice in the mix? 
been playing sin for a long time but sub looks kinda interesting aswell
sand heath
Sin or OL for M+ not sub @bright smelt unless if you doing low stuff play what you enjoy, outlaw is better with a wits trait whereas sin would need EB, SS traits
But both sin and OL competitive
bright smelt
^ what zine said
I do have good traits for both sin and sub, bis traits on 2x 445's for sub and 1x (as of yet) for sin with rest being 430
2/2/2 for sin and 3 nights veng, 1 first dance, 1 replicating shadows, 1 inevability for sub
quasi ledge
If you're just looking to "spice it up" why/what are you even asking? Throw some Sub/Outlaw traits on and go
bright smelt
just wanted to hear peoples opinions, and kinda wanting to wait anyway since each reforge is costing me 4k now 
rigid mango
If anyone want's to talk non assa in #assassination , feel free to go to #wow-general or #off-topic 
bright smelt
I mean it was 50% about sin
rigid mango
No reason to keep on talking about it 😄
sand heath
Yeah - I didn’t understand “spice” up
rigid mango
No worries 😄
void bear
hey peeps would you go with subterefuge or master assassin?
latent gazelle
for M+ or raids?
void bear
raiding
latent gazelle
depends on traits but usually MA
rigid mango
MA is better with optimal traits
distant lava
you sim yourself to see what's better for you
rigid mango
but any Shrouded suffocation traits means subt
distant lava
farm benthics
summer marten
sorry for those shoulders 😛
bright smelt
shoulders are kinda F for all 3 specs
woeful minnow
literally the worst azerite piece in the game yes
420 gorak outsims them by a significant margin, it's very sad
also holy crap that's a lot of sim iterations, you literally clicked everything you could
visual quartz
nvm lol
iron pine
What are people using for third essence?
void bear
yeah that was cuasee of the trinkets ^^ @woeful minnow
dark crag
I wish i had conflict r3
scarlet sequoia
☺
lethal heart
void bear
distant lava
yeah raz is a nerd
scarlet sequoia
hell yeah i am
void bear
how did you farm thosee?
scarlet sequoia
rbg
void bear
rated also works?
scarlet sequoia
it does indeed
cobalt pelican
usually if you look at someone elses top gear and they don't have the advanced panel thing for gems/enchants it just autofills them all for you jnas
void bear
so spam rated ?
scarlet sequoia
well rated is only faster if you actually win
woeful minnow
ahhh I was wondering how he had literally 24m iterations
drifting cloud
Raz only has like 98% winrate
void bear
hate do do pvp stuff but that esence just to op ._.
small island
worth it do keep dots on both bosses on mythic court?
void bear
i think the running around is provides less dps
small island
ye thats what i was thinking too
tribal marlin
it's worth it if done correctly
I think the very best case would be to stick on your current target, switching to refresh dots in pandemic and stick to new target until other target need refreshes but it's not possible because of the fight mechanics, tactics used etc...
still worth it if you do your quick running around while TB is on cd
small island
alright ty
old galleon
what do you think is the best way to "farm" daggers? I have been outlaw for M+ for a while and now that I want to play as assa I'm in a situation where they are 415 and 400, I have done some runs to Tol Dagor without luck, and also now that is harder its more difficult :__(
fringe pulsar
What is pandemic?
rigid mango
Should be in pins 😄
unborn moon
@old galleon First boss in Eternal palace drops a dagger and Queens court, that's how I got mine.
old galleon
hahahah glad im not alone
thanks @unborn moon will do that! since its the first boss its easier
unborn moon
I got lucky and got a 450 out of my first weekly cache when they changed the ilvl drops but the raid ones can warforge to 440 from heroic so not bad at all
old galleon
wow, so lucky
I was raiding before and was kind of frustrated with my dps, I can 40-50k at pull but then I finish as 20k... there was a rogue with the same item level of daggers as me that was doing pretty good
and I think its the trinkets but im not sure
he had the coral one
unborn moon
Ashvanes is nuts, I also learned the talents changed too and azerite traits. We no longer take shrouded suff and subterfuge, its double dose and master assassin
unborn moon
That's your best bet right now and see where the dmg jumps tbh
strange python
royal lantern
vapid scarab
who raids on sundays
royal lantern
im in a raid right now
junior flume
For Zaqul mythic, does any of you guys have experience with font/coral vs bringing cyclotron instead for burst on adds?
junior flume
Echo
teal stratus
Does engineering helm give residium
shy axle
how do you use your cd`s on ashvane? Azerite on pull and Cds after shield or visa versa?
rigid mango
Depends on your guild
void bear
we doin cds at start
solemn meadow
73
on queens court
fuuuuuck
WHY DO WE KILL IT EVERYTIME ON THE TRY THAT I NEVER CRIT 
placid dawn
73 is a casual parse 😂
fervent jasper
So I have 2 EB, and have a 435 helm. Should I drop one EB to switch that helm to the 445 engi helm?
bright smelt
m+ or raid/st?
sharp lily
On court my guild makes the rogues soak every charge for the entire fight with one of the tanks.
sharp lily
It's pretty horrible for trying to do anything
sharp lily
I can't even do that, try to multi Dot and the person with the charge is in Africa. Gotta keep my step to get to them.
scarlet sequoia
sounds like weird placements or something
i have to do the same thing you described and i got rank 4 on it this week
sharp lily
Sound like your bosses aren't kept 200 miles apart and the charges are semi close to melee.
scarlet sequoia
probably not idk
sharp lily
Even when Pashmar isn't doing her big aoe she's kept hella far.
It was my first time in on the boss so I can only get better at it. And I didn't prog with them onit either.
scarlet sequoia
ah yeah, you learn how to optimize on farm ofc
muted maple
holy shit that trinket
azure sluice
dose INK trinket Buffed by toxic blade?
sharp lily
No.
dark crag
When the whole raid parses well you have a good chance to do it aswell.
Also if you don't have slot 3 yet, you compete against many who got it
solemn meadow
man zaqul sure is not a fun fight
thorn oracle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
solemn meadow
just don't do dmg 4head
dark crag
How is zaqul? Doing progress tomorrow
junior flume
First night on him too....
How are you guys building coral stacks?
I've sorta resorted to spamming FoK =/
cold rampart
guys on orgozoa mythic can i go full single if my group has a lot of aoe?
junior flume
In p1 ofc
Talalze, I'd say that's up to your raid. If you have no issue with dealing with the ads, then I don't see why it should be an issue that you go single target
dark crag
Unlucky
solemn meadow
@junior flume I just do my st rotation without any cds other than tb
idk if fok is really that great
jovial plume
also do u guys wait with envenoms to keep EP up?
junior flume
We are always too close to pushing, and I figure that FoK spam is a lot of chances for coral build up, due to lots of attacks, while still not doing too much damage to push the boss too early. But I might be totallywrong
junior flume
Ah okay 😄 Yea it seems like it
A lot of dps end up doing nothing
Or you go outlaw for aoe padding
solemn meadow
Im at zaqul myself
junior flume
How far are you guys?
crystal storm
!coral
prisma monolithBOT
The way to use coral in M+ is using it on your priority target,
and then whenever that target dies, reapply it to your next target.
Whenever your target dies it gives you the crit it would give from using it,
so consuming the stacks for crit mid pack is generally suboptimal.
junior flume
Yea that's when the fights really starts it seems. We're at 44 so the same basically
sharp lily
Getting to first delirium add here
rigid mango
I mean
You should be dpsing
as much as possible
press as many buttons as possible
solemn meadow
I am
mental obsidian
anyone on mythic za qul? or killed it already
rigid mango
???
solemn meadow
????
sharp lily
?????
mental obsidian
junior flume
Isn't that prio above anything else?
junior flume
I am only at 64, and I'm running blood, vision
solemn meadow
nah we just have differnt people in the other delirium
since we only have 1 rogue
and thats me aswell
rigid mango
Wdym, you have to go vision
junior flume
vend for adds no?
junior flume
Ah okay, sorry misunderstood :d
solemn meadow
ye but we do not have enough ppl that would have cds for second delirium
that dont fuck me
we have 3 boomkins
1 fire mage
like we have 1 shadow and 1 hunter
rigid mango
I think ret?
junior flume
same 😄
crystal storm
so can I keep using my macro that uses vendetta with trinkets? If i am running coral
I get how to use coral but the first one has me a little confused.
vapid scarab
on opener you just combo coral with your very first ability, then you just let it build stacks till 2nd vendetta, macro is fine
after vendetta you need to have a trinket keybind to reactivate it
junior flume
34% best pull for us tonight
@rigid mango during p1, if damage is a plenty, do you see any downside to spamming FoK for coral stacks?
rigid mango
You should probably be dropping dps p1
That's what we're doing
OUr ranged are half afk late p1
Whilst everyone w coral + inkpod aka me, keep on smacking it
junior flume
It doesn't seem like ours like being -that- afk cause we always have to hold back
junior flume
so I swapped to FoK instead of regular rotation, a bit of damage and seems to be building stacks just fine
rigid mango
I just fok at 4+ dudes around me
junior flume
Alright just wanted to make sure that it wasn't incredibly stupid for some reason I didn't see 😄
Yea would do too, except our boss damage it so high, if i did normal rotation we'd have to stop dps entirely for quite a while
junior flume
Oh that early?
junior flume
Yea, we push it just after he casts the tentacles
rigid mango
we normally end up being at low 86% or high 85%
You should push after he casts 2nd dread
As soon as you can after
That's the one thing u wait for
Drop into #wow-general since mods wont like this
junior flume
Oh yea for sure
scenic sapphire
Quick question for sin rogues that are actually playing Razor Coral + Font of power. I know it sims better but is it actually better? I mean the 4s channeling and 20s icd between the two trinkets is a bit of a down, right? Should I stick to Dice + Coral or is Font + Coral that good?
rigid mango
It's in #tc-updates , there's a paragraph there
scenic sapphire
Yeah it's basically saying it's an upgrade. I'm more asking in a raid encounter. Do you really have thoses 4s channeling time free most of the time?
rigid mango
Yes
exotic cedar
Does anyone have a weakaura that announces poison bomb with yell in here?
cobalt pelican
y: i did 3k dmg
marble elm
It’s not legion level but it still does a lot on aoe
tidal jetty
it also procs way too much to be announcing it every time, imo
"POISON BOMB PROC, DONT MOVE"
"POISON BOMB PROC, DONT MOVE"
"POISON BOMB PROC, DONT MOVE"
arctic walrus
It's 2 seconds now instead of 6 so tanks if the tank's moving he's gonna keep moving
civic palm
Sorry I was mid BREATH...
exotic cedar
I need it to inform my tank i play with essential or not depends 🙂
civic palm
Does your group want you shouting at them about something they might not care about or want literally spammed?
exotic cedar
No, i don't pug the thing here is we play together as a group and its good to know when it procs
Bit useless saying proc each time in vocal
civic palm
It's 6 ticks in 2 seconds.
Nothing someone is going to do is going to change anything.
tidal jetty
it will change literally nothing for your tank to know poison bomb procced
civic palm
By the time he stops it will be done.
tidal jetty
or anyone else in range of your yell for that matter 😛
civic palm
If anything try to proc PBOMB on the leading mob if you want TINY entirely inconsequential gains.
exotic cedar
I asked does anyone have a WA
marble elm
u don’t need a weak aura if u are a true alpha and are playing crimson tempest
exotic cedar
ok good
tidal jetty
😦
exotic cedar
then stfu
civic palm
NIGHT PLEASE
I could make one that makes it seem like you are telling the group about your procs... hmmm...
arctic walrus
just copy paste it each time it procs
arctic walrus
sounds annoying and tedious? yeah maybe take the hint
exotic cedar
I got the weakaura via dm from someone not mentally challenged tyvm
cobalt pelican
i'm sure you and your team of intellectuals will really push the 200 dps poison bomb meta into the mdi
civic palm
Imagine thinking this is a good idea and calling other people mentally challenged.
o _o
exotic cedar
Whats the highest key uve done?
drifting cloud
7
exotic cedar
U talk so much shit, instead of doing a copy paste
cobalt pelican
??
civic palm
o _O
civic palm
200dps, the key to timing an impossible key
vapid scarab
hasn't even timed a 15 
civic palm
Talk Shit, Get Hit.
shrewd night
civic palm
o _o
sullen pagoda
how do i always miss the pepegas 
civic palm
Well you have to take a minor pepega...
azure basalt
civic palm
and egg them on a little.
To full pepegaTHISISOFFTOPICNOW
BACK ON TOPIC
POISON BOMB DOESN'T NEED TO BE TRACED THE DAMAGE IS TOO LOW TO MATTER IN THE MOMENT.
fleet axle
xvudu 
azure basalt
when ur PB procs while the boss is channeling
civic palm
No 
nimble tartan
anyone have a weakaura that tells my raid group when my bleeds are in pandemic range
civic palm
@nimble tartan I can make those for ya real quick ooooooobby refreshing DOTS
solid nova
Dont see how that helps anything
cobalt pelican
say stuff actually really helps my ingame i don't know why
when epople don't have the say thing for cyclonic whatever in temple
i get hit sometimes
balmy quest
I need a weak aura that tells the tank when my auto attack swings are <0.5sec away so that the tank doesn't move the boss out of my melee range
to time huge keys
civic palm
I can write you a WA that yell at the tank that they pulled the mob out of your range.
That should be helpful.
balmy quest
For real? MDI here I come 😎
reef frigate
how much azerite does the weekly chest give?
drifting cloud
reef frigate
Thanks
vapid scarab
that's not ap
drifting cloud
oh my bad
lone junco
Lol poison bomb yell.
Like they are gonna stand still for that shit. If they move, they move.
This isn't legion with glaives and shoulder bombs.
civic palm
or long PBOMB.
timber pawn
anyone had luck running a mastery build with MP
cobalt pelican
not yet
i doubt it'll be playable even with next tiers gear to be honest but eh who can say
sudden ocean
placid mulch
My sims almost tricked me last night it told me to completely regem mastery with my 65 neck
Then I looked at the hidden options and my exact gem setup was like a 10 dps difference
cobalt pelican
vel sims more than me with master poisoner..
feelsbad
10 dps is 10 dps dud you gotta do it
follow your dreams
true nexus
10 dps could be a queen azhara kill
placid mulch
Sims have spoken
arctic walrus
you have the wrong set on?
placid mulch
Now if you can play MP and venom rush you’re in the lazy sin rogue rotation from NH again
civic palm
o _o
arctic walrus
deleting before richard bans me
did you get 53k or are you still like 52.9 @scarlet sequoia
arctic walrus
600 ahead of me, what a shame
cobalt pelican
i'm pr etty much just a trophy and a shoulder away from being a bikboy
which sounds very close but also potentially 12 months away
the rest of my gear is like.. decently okayish enough that i can't get anything without getting forgelucker
arctic walrus
All I have left to get is font and sockets
cobalt pelican
i don't even know what to coin next week since zaqul/azshara are still kinda a way out
i guess i'll just coin sivara ashvane for sockets/forging.. but that sounds depressing
native silo
are people using blood of the enemy over laser in M+?
vapid scarab
laser does 15%+ of my damage idk how blood can beat that
pearl pagoda
for queens court, ashvane trinket feels so clunky
arctic walrus
You just have to make sure the target you coral is the one you're hitting
cobalt pelican
ya idk i find it awkward too but it's so much better than my other trinkets that i guess even if i use it suboptimally it's still good so
sudden ocean
BOTE allows you to send it on nearly any pack in the game
but if you're lower ilvl building up a character for keys I'd use iris personally
Especially if you aren't running 2-3eb
*also note that I'm talking about BOTE 3 here
vapid scarab
what does it matter if iris still does more overall
sudden ocean
Well bote gives you the added benefit of being very good for bosses
Which makes it preferrable
vapid scarab
iris isn't terrible for bosses either tho
and if it does more overall you finish the dungeon faster
sudden ocean
I'll tell you what, if you're unable to make bote work for you in keys, you should probably be using iris 😄
vapid scarab
you do good boss dmg as sin pretty much by default
it's not about making it work it just does less damage
you can't really get around that
sudden ocean
For your play maybe
vapid scarab
that doesn't even make sense
pull more trash and iris does even more
pull 2 mobs and you aren't timing the key anyway
sudden ocean
vapid scarab
idk man explain how blood does more
cool, so you have 0 evidence or backing for your statement
blood just feels cool
and you get to be honorable and say oh im not padding aoe
civic palm
Sure thing, frequent, thorough uses while not impeding movement.
vapid scarab
it has the exact same CD as iris, and iris lets you move while casting
none of what you said matters
sudden ocean
If you think keys are a one size fits all affair then you either aren't pushing them high or you're not playing them optimally, sorry but it's as simple as that
civic palm
Except it's functionally different, more versatile, and not shit on ST.
vapid scarab
yet iris is still doing 15%+ of my overall damage
sand basin
Yeah with eb and Ss bote becomes a lot more viable
sudden ocean
you keep quoting that statistic like it means something amongst the thousands of possible outliers that lead to it being so
Anyway this conversation has moved beyond the scope of assassin talk so I'm out
vapid scarab
how is talking about m+ essences for assassin outside the scope of assassin talk
civic palm
Yeah it's within the scope o _O
sudden ocean
It's one person arguing in the face of information
civic palm
Critical Strike rating is a critical stat for Assassination and weighing that against a raw dmg output source is important.
Sasquatch kinda does that.
sudden ocean
It's a big kinda
civic palm
It might even be his thing O _O
vapid scarab
sure, but it's really difficult to measure what blood is even doing
versus what you would be doing without it
you guys have presented as much information as I have, I'm not sure what the difference is
arctic walrus
Having a difficult to measure metric doesn't mean it's inherently worse yhan one that's named on your damage metres though
civic palm
At least knowing that Iris does 15% of your DMG means you can easily see how much BotE might do for you in a similar time frame.
drifting cloud
must just be a coincidence that most top assa rogues run bote, I guess they just like making keys harder
arctic walrus
There's a reason people say pick either blood or iris. Both have their nuances sure, but both work
civic palm
Yeah both are fine.
Just don't use PP everywhere.
Unless you don't have other options.
fading stag
first time asking for help here, how do I go about linking logs? just one boss or every boss
civic palm
If there's something specific that you are interested in, it will get you a better answer.
fading stag
it's more of a general overall, my sim dps vs what Im actually doing
civic palm
You cannot and should not expect to get near your simulated DPS unless you can assure that you are on the boss for an entire 5min.
fading stag
what should I expect compared to the sim? like the difference, because I'll 26k and my sim is 38k
civic palm
More than that on the simple bosses.
I would start by looking over the RH guide;
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
civic palm
and the wowhead guide
1 sec
and make sure you are not doing anything obviously wrong.
fading stag
I did look at the guide, and since a lot of it matters on what gear you have, it's hard to follow it since it's very general
crisp hollow
what should my opener be like on behemoth in regards to killing fish first then getting into boss?
civic palm
The guides should not assume anything in regards to gearing.
mut get dots on fish, cyclotronic if you want
balmy quest
The only major things that change with gear are if you have cyclonic, font or razor coral trinkets. Otherwise the rotation is stock standard either master assassin or subterfuge?
civic palm
full energy and cp move to boss
big DPS CDs there
If I use Cyclotronic on the puffer I tend to have it for every other puffer.
fading stag
I can link raidbots and logs if that helps
crisp hollow
I should be running cyclo on early bosses that die super fast?
fading stag
I have both coral and font and don't use cyclon
civic palm
It's more important that you understand the fundamentals first and know that you understand that before linking logs that might have myriad fundamental errors on them.
Because then you're just gonna be linked the guides again.
You should be running Cyclotronic if it's better than what you have otherwise.
fading stag
is the difference between those trinkets a fundemental?
civic palm
Gear isn't fundamental.
balmy quest
even without using your trinkets properly that difference seems too large for you to have everything else right besides your trinkets
fading stag
I've read the guide, looked at what rotation I should use for my talents/azerite powers
checked stat weights for what I should gem and enchant
balmy quest
Advice on how to use those trinkets together is in the pins
fading stag
I read that too, and at times it is confusing on which to use in the middle of a fight, but is that the reason the dps difference is so big?
balmy quest
I mean if you have both trinkets it lines up pretty easily, shouldn't be too confusing... Use font before the pull, stealth and pre-pot. Use your opener with vendetta and activate your Razor Coral to start building stacks when you;re off trinket cooldown.
Then it is pretty much use Font ~14 secs before Vendetta
Then Razor coral when trinket is off cooldown during your vendetta so that you get as much overlap of font + vendetta + coral as possible
and reapply coral again after trinket CD
rinse and repeat
that's a very verbose way of explaining "use them on cooldown with vendetta"
arctic walrus
Just link a top gear sim, and maybe one of your better parses on any boss
But yes, fundamentals are there for a reason, get them down
civic palm
Yeeees, get the sucker to look over them.... mwuahahahahaha.
arctic walrus
I'll look at some logs than my character parked in boralus anyday
fading stag
alright, but what are the considered fundamentals?
civic palm
Understanding everything in the guides.
What your buttons are, what they do, and how best to use them on an encounter.
arctic walrus
During a fight, you shouldn't hesitate, or be unsure of what your next step will be
This spec requires a bit of foreward thinking, if you link your logs however, I'd be better able to pin point out mistakes
civic palm
It's based entirely around planning, if you mangle that the whole thing falls apart.
civic palm
94 seems fine uhhh
fading stag
but my dps is still low compared to my sim is it not?
civic palm
Behemoth has monstrous downtime > _>
arctic walrus
Using this fight as a specific example, blackwater has big phases of downtime
fading stag
don't use this one? it's my highest parse
placid ermine
When running 3x echoing blades for m+, and being realistically energy capped, do you ever use envenom just for a 30% more chance to proc deadly poison during fan of knives spam ? I've been doing that sometimes and i feel like thats a minor dps loss and its just better to apply a new rupture despite being energy capped (not when i have cp, when my Elaborate planning is ending to keep 10% dmg buff for fok)
civic palm
and it's useless to compare to a SIM.
The SIM assumes 100% uptime, you being behind the target.
and w/e other variables you have.
arctic walrus
Also, never take worldvein
fading stag
I thought it was better until I got clf?
civic palm
Of course your other options matter.
Make sure WV in the SIM is set to like, 3 targets.
placid ermine
sivarra is actually pretty decent for testing your real dps (below mythic especially)
arctic walrus
worldvein especially on behemoth? yikes
civic palm
_ >
civic palm
❌
civic palm
Yep.
arctic walrus
You're probably looking at lucid and iris
civic palm
WV sims very very well and does not reflect a practical setting.
placid ermine
are we assuming he has life force rank 3 in major?
civic palm
Did you SIM Crucible minor? Vel
placid ermine
then for pure st i'd recomment essence of flame and if there's literally any cleave whatsoever iris
arctic walrus
i probably missed it hold on
And yeah
you had 4 stacks for like 1 second
in a 5minute fight
that's WV
fading stag
okay I understand, is that my only problem? I know ma does more damage but I don't have a diff chest to swap out
placid ermine
maybe u can actually use WV on sivarra or ashvane if few other melees are using it
arctic walrus
iris still your best minor
civic palm
The issue with WV in this case is that it demands raidwide use.
and unless you can enforce that it's never worth taking.
placid ermine
Btw is blood rank 3 better on st than iris?
civic palm
Major?
placid ermine
y
fading stag
swap wv for iris okay, is my rotation fine? other than doing better with coral and font
arctic walrus
raid or
You seem to be lining everything up correctly
Maybe pool a bit more for tb windows
civic palm
There's that planning thing we were talking about.
I sense someone drawing in paint.
🔮
fading stag
is getting 2 env in tb better than refreshing bleeds? like wait till tb is off?
placid ermine
so now that we finished that topic, do you ever use envenom in aoe situations (3x echoing blades) for bigger chance to apply deadly poison? Or is that a dps loss?
civic palm
The planning comes from never having to refresh bleeds in the TB window.
placid ermine
yeah
civic palm
Keep ENV up if you wanna.
placid ermine
you must find a flow of refreshing bleeds at correct time
well its not about what i want, its about what does more dmg xd
civic palm
I imagine after enough targets just spamming FoK wins out.
arctic walrus
With many eb its damage will overtake instant poison i assume
placid ermine
yeah i was thinking more about 3-4 targets
civic palm
Well it's...
placid ermine
since u also get EP from that
civic palm
DP, ENV DMG, PBOMB procs
arctic walrus
that's honestly a low number
civic palm
and EP uptime
fading stag
thanks everyone for the help! i'll work on it
placid ermine
And i'm also only considering that after being energy capped ofc
arctic walrus
maybe 6-8 you'd forego envenom
civic palm
I don't believe it's a poor choice to keep ENV up if you have 1xTtK until like, MANY targets.
placid ermine
i dont have ttk
arctic walrus
I am 100% talking out of thin air so if someone's got some numbers I'd appreciate it
civic palm
o _o
arctic walrus
Just feels right to envenom at 4+ until maybe 6+
civic palm
Don't ENV then.
placid ermine
i find ttk extremely underwhelming, and i run 3x echoing blades and 2x SS instead (i'd love to have 3 but i didnt drop helmet for it yet, si instead im using scent, which i hate but whatever)
vapid scarab
i always env just cus there's never really a situation where there isn't some priority target or even just something with higher hp than everything else around it
vapid scarab
well you don't run TtK for overall in the first place
placid ermine
yes i don't 🙂
vapid scarab
so that's why it feels underwhelming
civic palm
TtK makes ENV do a fucking dumb amount of DMG, but just keeping spinning and applying bleeds.
Will be fine.
placid ermine
is tooltip fucked up then? It seems to be 750 dmg per cp in 445 azerite isnt it?
thats what, extra 8k dmg on crit?
civic palm
The stacking tooltip is whack I think.
arctic walrus
I don't think I've ever trusted a tooltip
civic palm
Yeah they're all kinda whack.
vapid scarab
I mean even if you do go by the tooltip, 1 TtK is increasing your env dmg by 17%
arctic walrus
running that sob is the real tragedy here though
civic palm
Yeah but if you never ENV it increases it by 0%.
placid ermine
i know, that scent hurts my soul
vapid scarab
well yeah, there's rarely a situation where you don't want to use it tho
even if it does less overall dmg to use it
arctic walrus
is there nothing you can do to drop it
placid ermine
Well there is, but its hardly efficient
i have helmet from sivarra which came for free
So i could start spending residuum like crazy to fish for it, spend 200k for that, or spend that 200k on st shoulders which i have in 415 and i think will be a bit more important ;d
arctic walrus
any 420s?
arctic walrus
running 420s for the traits over 430/435 is okay imo
placid ermine
y
arctic walrus
Yeah so i'd check your bags, see if you can salvage a worthwhile set
civic palm
or Item uhhh....
Reconstitution...
uhhh...
Re...
structing...
hmmm
Restoration.
There it is.
shy dust
placid ermine
My bags are very well checked, i have 3 azerite sets with 8/9 items being 430
rest is titan residuum
oblique sun
hey guys 🙂 had a quick question when pooling energy should i spam muta until i have what combo points i need 4 or 5 then pool from there or wait between mutas?
rigid mango
Go to 4+, pool, and envenom > build > env, sniping ep window and again if possible if it means you don't lose bleed uptime/tb envenoms
oblique sun
cool thank ya ^_^
placid mulch
So is the pinnacle apex of being the best sin rogue possible the ability to snipe ep windows with envenoms as often as possible? (St speaking) is that possible math / timing wise?
winter moss
to be the best sin rogue you start to understand the class
sniping ep windows isnt always possible
most important is that you get 2-3 env in a tb window
set up cds properly
*speaking of trinkets and whatsoever
have a killtime right after your vendetta ran out
simple as it is press the right button as the time is right. no need to spam envenoms when you dont have the nrg to blast off as tb comes of cd
placid mulch
Yeah I’ve been trying to drill myself hard on TB windows but wasn’t sure if I was missing something about EP if it was actually chainable
bold whale
So, i had forcemultiplier on my offhand, then simcraft told me, deadly would be a +80dps gain, switched it now it tells me the other way 
winter moss
link sim/s
bronze horizon
Quick question, since coral is like maybe an average of 8 for mythic ashvane when the first shield breaks, would it be worth it to just use font here and only pop coral on the 2nd shield break with hero?
winter moss
@bronze horizon 
#tc-updates
you prolly gotta hold cds anyway
so the general idea is to just play along the first min of the fight and go on a shit throwing rampage as the shield breaks
where the message of the pins applies
only thing is you can put on coral right at the start
bronze horizon
I figured that was implied, I just meant popping it and trying to stack it with font a bit on the first shield break didn't feel that great or worth it so I figured it might just be worth it to start saving it fully and just get a shit ton of stacks for 2nd shield
winter moss
yeah basically the message of the pins
you can use coral as the first shield breaks but i'd rather keep it as you have somewhat around 5 stacks
*keep it for the next vendetta
bronze horizon
Sounds about right, thanks.
small silo
Does anyone know what benthic parts are really important to grab? or should I just be aiming to get all 4 (bracers, gloves, belt, boots)?
My rogue comes off of suspension in a month so saving up pearls on alt account but I'm trying to figure out roughly how many I should save up vs how many i can just use to upgrade my alt benthic
summer marten
boots are best, but aim for all
winter moss
placid mulch
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
shy axle
did not follow the discussion, did i read it right that most people use the frost wrists over puffer ? Or are you switching them on fight basis?
scarlet sequoia
frost always
shy axle
good thanks
royal lantern
frost is slightly better
but if you have puffer, just upgrade it, the difference is so extremly small
sudden ocean
the difference is like 6 dps for me now
topaz blaze
Hey everyone i just started my assassination rogue and i am struggling with doing damage on trash can someone help?
dark crag
Get eb traits, spam fok
If you aren't max level yet, go level, you can't change it and it also doesn't matter
weary dawn
@sudden ocean in sim yes? I think one of the major advantages of the frost ones is that it is instant as opposed to the puffer that is delayed and can miss if the target moves
winter moss
Your spells and abilities have a chance to summon a pufferfish that explodes and deals damage to targets within 8 yards of you.
sudden ocean
Yeah in sim it is but it's rare it wont go off on a boss
only one I'd say is a serious concern is ashvane
winter moss
not even there
guess its a chance but not effecting it to hard
or you could say you wouldnt notice if you get to play mechanics often
weary dawn
Is it really within 8 yards of you and not within 8 yards of the puffer? Just seemed strange
winter moss
it's a blizzard tooltip so
prolly 8 yds of the fish
but still
you stick to the boss and the 8 yds + hitbox from the boss
bronze kelp
if you are in melee range and the puffer triggers, u hit the boss
unless the boss moves
winter moss
that was the initial statement yes
bronze kelp
oh ups, somehow didnt saw that you already replied
viscid eagle
i got the neri bracer with a socket should i try to get the ori bracer with a socket?
rigid mango
Neri's are meh, ori's are BiS, puffer in the middle
daring olive
If you already have the other 3 slots, no point not buying more bracers to get Ori's
rigid mango
If you have neri's I'd go for either of the other two
viscid eagle
no pearl upgrade on that one 🙂
sudden ocean
Wrists are one of the hardest to roll so I've stuck with puffer until I finished the rest
viscid eagle
i roolled a ori but no socket so i upgraded it to 420 before knowing i should fish for a sockets
daring olive
D:
viscid eagle
i got the bis boots should i try for gloves or wrist next?
daring olive
Wrists
viscid eagle
i just got back to the gfame
rigid mango
Wrists do more damage, gloves are easier
viscid eagle
thanks everyone i start to focus on bracers then
shut bay
sup rogues - when casting TB and following with etc; do you envenom if Mut gives you 2 CP? as in are you just trying to output as many envenom's as possible until TB runs out? ty ty
obsidian sandal
Do you guys know how many targets there needs to be for fan of knives to be more effective than mutilate? I have three echoing blades rn
scarlet sequoia
2
obsidian sandal
Oh for real? I was expecting it to be way higher
distant lava
mut gives more cp at 2 targets but FoK deals more dmg
scarlet sequoia
if you have 3 echoing blades traits then yes, 2 targets should be enough
obsidian sandal
Alright, sounds good
distant lava
yeah , for example I know seli likes to mut on 2 targets, and if it didn't crit he gets to 4 /5 cps with a FoK
(in m+ ofc not raids)
obsidian sandal
Follow up, is there a point at which it’s not worth rupturing at 5cp in between FoK?
dark crag
When you would have too many ruptures going and your energy is perma capped anyway
You rupture for the energy, to fuel your fok spam
obsidian sandal
Ohhhh okay
distant lava
yeah once you have enough ruptures wit echoing blades traits , you either spend on envenoms if you want prio dmg or spam the fuck out of fok
dark crag
1 rupture is 7 energy every 2 secs before haste
distant lava
usually you need 3 or 4 out for enough regen iirc
dark crag
5×7=35 energy every 2 secs before haste + 10 energy every 1 sec
obsidian sandal
That’s crazy! For some reason I didn’t know if have energy while ticking, I always thought it just gave it when something died
dark crag
5 is almost too much, 3 is minimum and 4 is a good sweetspot with a bit of haste
obsidian sandal
Alright cool! Thanks for the help :)
hasty fiber
hey guys so for coral do i use it on pull with vendetta up
or do i use it on pull and wait till 20 secs to pull it out then vendetta?
civic palm
hasty fiber
ty
dense merlin
In aoe you don't want to use a finisher to proc elaborate planning?
cobalt pelican
depends on pack size really, i think in 'normal' sized pulls for normal groups it's probably always worth it during empowered garrotes to keep it up
but i'm too bad at math to work out the cutoff point
vernal frigate
should i avoid using crippling poison for sanguine?
dense merlin
Ty
rigid mango
@vernal frigate not really, it's still v good aslong as you're not having active issues with it
@true nexus in #wow-general
true nexus
ty
I assume crucible of flame follows a similar rule
use when low energy
dont cap stacks
not during tb
rigid mango
Yep, p much
cosmic prism
how good is the mecha ring combo if you are behind > deal nature dmg to nearby enemy for single target / aoe
civic palm
Very good.
cosmic prism
does it sim properly
cobalt pelican
yes
cosmic prism
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7XmaVkMWJZjP1eSDbUJv7u what do u make of this
worth using
?
weary dawn
I'm at like 80% of 65..
What should I do, grind islands for AP or play classic? Hmm..
frozen karma
you'll 100% get it tomorrow with the reset so prob just do w/e you want
Font of Power would be a 1.1k dps gain but I can't seem to get one 
scarlet sequoia
imagine simming below 53k tbh
frozen karma
RIP
scarlet sequoia
gotta enjoy it while it lasts
frozen karma
show me what I need for 53k
wet ruin
imagine being the 7th week and still no inkpod/font fml
frozen karma
I'm too bad to waste my time with PvP sadly
wet ruin
raz why are you playing with loyal to the end chest
tropic ocean
Cuz hes a loyal human
marble elm
Because it’s good
civic palm
Great even.
wet ruin
why not put it on the sim then 😄
cobalt pelican
ceph/pvp equivalent are still marginally better (usually) with no deaths
scarlet sequoia
not like it matters a lot
but pvp chest sims higher on wowprogress so i log out in it for the number 1 hell yeah
cobalt pelican
weak
wet ruin
lool
cobalt pelican
i checked some stuff and playing gorak bbi and zaqul loyal was actually p nice for my character
wet ruin
you don't need to have loyal to get the buff from someone else dying with it right? or is it just blizz tooltips again
actually no the tooltip is fine you need to have it
placid arch
New to rogue (main Holy Paladin) and I’m wondering if anyone has tips/tools for tracking bleeds/avoiding reapplying too early?
civic palm
Practice.
placid arch
I think it’s just because I’m so new to the class, but I keep accidentally refreshing rupture/garrote way too early in m+ and feel like I’m throwing away those combo points.
civic palm
Get good representation of the Bleeds, know when to refresh them, practice until better.
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
frozen karma
it's not juste bleeds, pretty much all cds
placid arch
I’ll take a look at those groups when I’m on my PC later. Thanks for the links!
civic palm
Better/Different nameplates can also assist with seeing the bleeds as well.
Changing the size of the icon and text on the icon can assist further.
It's really about finding something you like and drilling it.
frozen karma
KuiNameplates is good
placid arch
I’ve been using the default nameplates recently for the sake of simplicity. But I’ve used an addon in prior expansions (threat plates i think it was called)
hoary patrol
Do you use toxic blade on cd? And do you want to refresh rupture in TB window or refresh before and then go to TB window?
hoary patrol
So If I refresh rupture inside TB window its not a dps loss
robust burrow
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
verbal knot
I think the dream is to manage your bleeds efficiently enough that you can re-apply them during pandemic before TB is up
Something I've been working on
tropic ocean
its not possible to always refresh outside tb afaik
(inside pandemic)
even sim refreshes during tb
verbal knot
Well, as little as possible
tropic ocean
it seems to be not a very big loss either so
personally I wouldn't really worry about
verbal knot
Well that's good. I've been working on managing my bleeds and vanish windows, I went from 37k on sivara to 41 (I sim 43)
without any big gear changes
Don't have to be so hard on myself when I need to refresh those bleeds
broken crypt
thats not as bad as me
i was using the wrong opener lol
to be fair it was at the bottom of the list of openers!
verbal knot
Opener is so important, that's what I've really been working on. That and perfecting the vanish window.
broken crypt
but yes, keepin those bleeds up is righteous
verbal knot
I only have one benthic bis, spent almost 600 pears on bracers to no avail