It breaks stealth on use
#assassination
hazy iron
austere ruin
which potion u guys use for opener?
cobalt pelican
it's not even giving the stats it's supposed to give consistently still
austere ruin
what about focused resolved, should I start with that?
visual quartz
the benthic gloves that do aoe physical dmg, not terrible?
round nimbus
so what is the best combination for level 55 neck?
fiery cradle
lucid/worldvein (if other people are using it) i think
ornate meteor
My sims told me to use lucid/worldveim but no one in my pt using it 
junior ridge
anyone know the haste breakpoint?
prisma carbon
what is even the opener with mechagon trinket?
i have it bound with lurkers rn, but not sure if sequence should change
hazy iron
Wouldn’t using one trinket chuck the other onto CD?
urban junco
Not this one 😃
hazy iron
Oh nice
urban junco
You can open with gar, mut, rup, trinket, then proceed into vendetta w/ Lurker
iirc from what people have been saying in here today
ornate meteor
I bind my mecha trinket into my vendeta with macro but sometimes it will use both of them and sometimes it only use the trinket and i need to click again for the vendetta, any way to fix this?
hazy iron
I only see that being an issue if you haven’t got a target selected
Wait, is the mecha trinket on gcd?
You would want to cast vendetta prior to the trinket if so. If you’ve set your macro up to use trinket prior to vendetta, that’s likely why
ornate meteor
Yeah i macro the vendetta and then the trinket
shy dust
spare flame
!ESSENCE
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
balmy quest
Why would you use it during your vendetta window though?
Since that increases ability and auto attack damage it probs wouldn't increase the trinket damage
nimble tartan
u want to channel the trinket before vendetta
dim yacht
Is Simcraft updated for essences for rogues? I'm simming my rogue, but there's no mention of blood of the enemy buff/debuff, or the damage it does anywhere in the report, leading me to believe that it's not simming the essence which should drastically change my stat weights. I am using the most up to date version of simcraft, and the simc addon.
timber meadow
So I did it for science
wrote down my achievement honor progress for tactitian
and then went into an RGB
came out
and my achievement honor went up the same amount i was awarded from the RGB
civic palm
O _O
dim yacht
Changed minor from lucid dreams to titan protocol and nothing at all changed in my sims, so there's no way simulationcraft is simming my essences - am I missnig something, or do we just not have them in simulationcraft yet for sin rogues?
red plaza
use raidbots
strange python
are the benthic pieces worth without a socket>?
nimble tartan
depends on ur gear u can sim them without sockets in droptimizer on raidbots
austere ruin
anyone know Nimbus Bolt is from?
dim yacht
Yeah turns out I'm dumb, simcraft isn't good anymore. Thanks.
vapid scarab
@austere ruin crucible pants
austere ruin
got it, thanks
bronze kelp
@dim yacht raidbots IS simcraft in the cloud. Raidbots just boosted the usability for user XY
Using simcraft is just a lot more work for the same results
bronze kelp
the point is, that only with hard bad luck u buy a lot of the tokens and dont get a socket out of it
so rolling for a socket is def woth it
daring atlas
my alts feed my rogue
all the pearls they get buy gear and send it to my roguue
then i use raidbots gear compare and see if it is higher
if it is
then i upgrade to 415
bronze kelp
socket is always better then no socket
tame cobalt
@daring atlas i just get them from wqs and hit what i need, no need for alts 
daring atlas
lol
bronze kelp
pearls are farmed so fast
drifting cloud
theyre gambled faster
bronze kelp
pearls gambled?
sharp viper
trying to get akanaas boots with a socket, 41 rolls so far and not a single upgraded version of them
bronze kelp
thats bad luck, got the ones I wanted after 7 rolls
vapid scarab
if you got them socketed after 7 rolls thats far from average
bronze kelp
how high is the chance to get a socket?
tame cobalt
its 50/50 you either get it or you dont
bronze kelp
isnt it as high as having a warforged item? and that was 20% i guess right? or maybe its 20% to have either a socket or leech or something
umbral hearth
Wut
bronze kelp
@tame cobalt i hope its no your honest
vapid scarab
does that mean my crit chance is 50/50, i either get one or i dont?
tame cobalt
@vapid scarab yes, and higher crit you have the better your 50% is
vapid scarab
nice
peak saffron
everything in life is 50/50
tame cobalt
That is true, it either happens or it doesnt
icy ember
how does worldvein essence get treated that it provides 1k more dps than crucible? does it assume that other people are using it ALL the time?
past marten
It looks like the SimC APL always uses Blood with Vendetta, is it actually a dps increase to use a 1.5min effect in 2min windows?
stark oxide
@icy ember its an option that you set before you click run. In the section wher eyou choose which build to sim, how many targets, what consumables, what APL, etc. One of the options says "how many allies have worldvein"
I do believe it defaults to 5. But yeah. just check there. You may need to click advanced options in that section, not sure. I mine auto shows advanced options. its just a toggle though.
tame cobalt
@past marten pins
stark oxide
yes, use it with vendetta. The bonus crit chance and crit damage during vendetta makes up for having to hold it 30 sec.
peak saffron
can I ask how you already have rank 2 Worldvein? @icy ember
peak saffron
isn't it tied to weekly island cap?
peak saffron
yeah and it takes 3 weeks
icy ember
uhm im not sure, I just ran the island expos, it is from them
stark oxide
the "3 week" thing is for rank 3.
peak saffron
im sorry, I was mistaken, I do have rank 2
icy ember
but ahh, that makes sense, gonna rerun my sim and see whats what
im just gonna set it to 1
stark oxide
Well from a raid perspective its probably fine to leave it high
just communicate with your guild first
I'm guessing a lot of people will sim high with it
especially since 1st day of mythic everyone can have it at rank 3
stark oxide
yeah
itll be low that way
but its good to knwo for solo content, or maybe m+ where theres a lower chance of having a 5 stack
stark oxide
yeah because the on use basically gives you the cap of 4 with 33% uptime
and flames costs you globals more often (which isn't that big of a deal but still)
but major worldvein is basically going to be useless if other people are running it with you
so itll be a good minor towards the end of the tier when we get that extra slot
icy ember
so we will end up with what at the end of the tier?
red plaza
yeah looks like it (for fights where you're able to maintain uptime ofc) And also should be a bit of tuning these next few weeks with the new raid and mythic releasing. So who knows where it all ends uphttps://www.herodamage.com/rogue/combinations-3e/1t-t23-assassination
magic fossil
guys, how mecha trinket is working for u? vendeta+lurkers and after vendetta mecha trinket, which order are u guys doing? Thanks a lot for any answer
icy ember
it seems sort of strange that we summon a guardian to impale the target 
hazy geyser
i use trinket straight into vendetta
using vendetta then trinket costs you 2 GCDs on vendetta
red plaza
after the first rupture, before the vendetta
magic fossil
thanks guys, going to dummys rn test both ways
vagrant urchin
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/sargeras/hetaro for raiding, is that build fine and if not, what should i change?
verbal mantle
It seems fine, but you can have a good idea by simming yourself
solid nova
A top gear sim is more valuable then just an armoury link
But seems okay from what i can see
Probably check out how the new weapon enchant sims vs your current setup tbh
latent tendon
Is there any general advice on how high you should upgrade a single piece of benthic gear?
I have the mastery boots with a socket
And the belt without the socket
Is there a point where the cost to upgrade a single piece of gear falls off or becomes too high compared to upgrading a new piece
cosmic pier
Probably better to have 2x 420 than 1x 425
stark oxide
That depends entirely on what the rest of your gear is and how many benthic pieces you have
cosmic pier
Depending how fast you farm pearls
stark oxide
Personally on my alt that gets 20-30 per day, i got a full set of 400s and then started gambling for socketed versions of the good slots
On tuesday the road to gearing gets insanely easier though since 400s will be baseline purples
vagrant urchin
@solid nova @verbal mantle thx, already logged off, will send the top gear sim tomorrow
stark oxide
Thats going to make benthic gear outdated pretty much
We'll only really use the two aberrations pieces, with socket. And in that case i would level them up evenly
latent tendon
I have the aberration mastery boots with a socket at 415 now
verbal mantle
there are "only" two bosses that are aberrations
latent tendon
So I guess I'll have to play the lottery for the other one with a socket
upbeat geode
i thought we should go for crit boots with socket, is aberration better for those bosses?
verbal mantle
Crit boots are very good if they comes with a socket
and of you can up them until 425
distant lava
boots and bracers are good for all bosses
verbal mantle
I only focused on the boots
distant lava
while belt only for 2
verbal mantle
cant farm enogh pearl for bracers
vital haven
i got the belt with a socket
verbal mantle
yeh the belt isnt that worth
verbal mantle
its fine tho
verbal mantle
yeh, expensive
thats why im waiting cause im close to buy the lucid dream r3
and its 50 manapearls
vital haven
getting the bracers and boots with a socket is much harder though
there are so many variations of the item
bracers its 6 items
pale knot
do you guys think they will nerf the benthic items?
verbal mantle
who knows
solid nova
They out sim mythic gear with socket wdym
pale knot
thats what ive heard to
solid nova
My 425 crit damage boots sim more than mythic boots with socket
If remained unchanged they'll last you the tier
vital haven
current mythic or next tier mythic?
stark oxide
Next tier mythic
solid nova
Palace mythic gear
solid nova
Wrists/Boots 425 with socket, will most likely last you the entire tier
Belt can compete with other items
stark oxide
We can farm mythic 10s for virtually the same thing
And those can titanforge with socket on top of that
solid nova
Its not just the socket that makes them strong
red plaza
it's not the socket that makes them good tho
solid nova
If you have the benthic boots/wrists
stark oxide
Like a 445 mythic socketed piece will likely outperform
vital haven
i mean the sims are already there
solid nova
Outsim 445 with socket
vital haven
its not like eternal palace has secret items
stark oxide
Oh I mosread your first statement
solid nova
I mean you can gear compare them and see 😄
faint harness
Not everyone will run around with 425 socketed benthic items
stark oxide
I dont need to I've been working on getting them anywah
"Everyone" doesnt need to though
vital haven
i mean
solid nova
Ive got boots, fishing for wrists but rng simulator wont give 
summer valve
you'll still want the 445 mythic gear if you do any content outside raid though
dark crag
No way that will stay, catchup stuff outperforming mythic with socket? Nerf incoming
faint harness
No but because of the heavy time investment i dont see blizzard slicing them too much
vital haven
5 manapearls at a chance of an item that upgraded can outdps a 445 withy a socket
summer valve
benthic gear is strictly worse than 445 for pvp and m+
stark oxide
If a decent percent of CE guilds are doing it, thats enough to justify a nerf. But even thenb if they nerf after people abused it for world first, that's bad. So i doubt it gets nerfed either way. It would have to be nerfed on mythic release day or never.
vital haven
40?
dark crag
It will be reduced to nazjatar only
vital haven
more if you have alts
vital haven
so i got the waist
stark oxide
But by then it wouldnt be fair to nerf then
vital haven
what do you guys think i should get next
stark oxide
Thats what im saying
vital haven
boots?
faint harness
they should nerf it today or tomorrow
vital haven
i got the waist first because its only 2 waists
so really the chances of getting the good waist with a socket are much higher
stark oxide
Speaking of waistn why do I only get the tank waists like i picked the tank on day 1, but even if i select the dps guy, the benthic waists always roll Vim's. Not that big of a deal but kind of annoying
summer valve
they're just named after the followers, they aren't linked to them
drifting cloud
yes they are wake up sheeple
vital haven
can you imagine if that was the case
drifting cloud
vital haven
fucking wasting manapearls over and over
stark oxide
But like, that cant be true
stark oxide
Ive rolled dozens of belts and its always vim's or the aberration
stark oxide
But at this point its such bad rng that its statistically not even possible
solid nova
Guess you're proof that it is lol
summer valve
there is nothing statistically impossible
faint harness
how do you think we can get the bracers as horde if it is NPC based?
Ori is an alliance NPC
summer valve
at best it's statistically unlikely
stark oxide
I don't mean literally impossible. But if you math it out it's like .00001%
summer valve
and?
summer valve
people have titanforged 75 ilvls
drifting cloud
im sure you mathed it out, maybe put some more 0 for dramatic effect
summer valve
that's statistically .000000001%
solid nova
Is not a factor in your bentic rolls
stark oxide
And thats why I was asking if there was a glitch or skmetbing
solid nova
No
vital haven
i tfed a pearl diver compass 55 ilvls
vital haven
felt pretty accomplised ngl
stark oxide
I understand.
uneven summit
Do we have an idea of the new trinkets, and what the hell is up with only one azerite item having DD and NP together :/
drifting cloud
theres only 2 belts dude
vital haven
azerite items from raid suck this tier
uneven summit
Ikr?
uneven summit
How about trinkets? Anything promising?
vital haven
azshara trinket apparently is godlike
unreal perch
the azshara one looks great
bleak spoke
vital haven
that trinket has to have a catch
faint harness
is the sim factoring in sitting there doing nothing for 4 seconds or how does it use it
vagrant urchin
Which bentic boot is the best one? crit mast or haste mast
mental obsidian
Opened like 200 benthic boots and nevet got socket, opened 1 wrist and got bis with socket
vagrant urchin
k, thx
vital haven
R
icy ember
ye i'm terrible w/the boots as well, i've probably opened a 100 pairs of boots
icy ember
and no luck
vital haven
goddamite shade
stark oxide
Which wrist is best? The chance to aoe one?
vital haven
frsot dmg one
dire phoenix
so dream for main and blood of the enemy minor ?
modest tendon
blood for main lucid for minor is better right?
solid nova
Depends on content + what ranks you're comparing
solid nova
Just sim it
dusky tinsel
^^^^^^
dark crag
dire phoenix
ty
pliant wing
What if we want human warmth rather than having to deal with a website?
distant lava
no warmth here mate, we're all dead inside
vestal wren
you mean, solving a problem that requires the user to do 2 clicks with a probably minutes long discussion/explanation that still would end up beeing less relevant/helpfull?
pliant wing
humanity is lost
stuck knoll
Well human warmth will lead to more inaccuracies and a waste of our and your own time than just learning to look yourself
drifting cloud
pliant wing
I am afraid for the future my friends, the machines will govern us all
solid nova
Sure.
vestal wren
winter moss
clever niche
Oh well Skynet is born, Optimus and Megatron side by side against them.... 😮
winter moss
novel scarab
any idea what the best benthic pieces are for sin raid?
distant lava
verbal mantle
novel scarab
any others?
solid nova
The list ends there because the other mythic pieces compete
vestal wren
you can aim for all 5
solid nova
You can even void the waist if you want, but boots/wrist are simming extremely high
vestal wren
given you wont get mythic itemlvl pieces fast
novel scarab
kk ineed the wrist now to be completre
complete*
what are the other 2 pieces i can aim for?
south horizon
Hey guys, I'm trying to wrap my head around a counter-intuitive sim output that I just don't quite understand. I did a stat weight sim, which came out recommending haste as my best stat by a fair bit: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pRDuUeq8v7uuj5dQWrTxca
However, when i do a top gear sim and look at gems and enchants, it is recommending that i retain my mastery gems im currently using:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bXJRUMjoGitsmunW3kwCKm
Anyone aware why this might be?
solid nova
Your haste/vers are extremely close
Complete the recommended from the top gear then re-sim stat weights if you're interested to see
It looks to be balancing the two quite comfortably to me
Haste enchant/quick nav etc
Doesn't seem too counter-intuitive to me mate.
wise whale
i dont think getting all three items with the right effect and socket is something to aim for
given the chances
solid nova
What else do you intend to spend your pearls on, outside of a mount?
Vendor item with socket that outsims mythic 445 with socket
Seems like a good trade to me
solid nova
4th roll for boots
That will last me an entire tier
Does it matter how many rolls when you dont have 445 with a socket to compete?
wise whale
maybe the chances are higher than i think
solid nova
And have nothing else to spend the pearls on
wise whale
no it doesn´t
solid nova
Well then 
vestal wren
unless you want the mount
solid nova
Seems like something perfectly viable to aim for to me, considering you get them passively from wqs
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
wise whale
is it known how long it takes to get Aqueous Reliquaries for the condensed life essence?
ornate meteor
Saw the pic about the belt, i thought the dmg aoe is better than the abberation, lucky i didnt disenchant my abberation socket belt
wise whale
oh its not that hard
Raid guide says 1 LFR, 3 normal, 6(guess) heroic, and 12 per mythic boss.
stone crescent
Anyone else simming weirdly? Like with haste as your lowest stat and crit as your highest on ST with double dose build?
Didnt think 27% haste was too much im not too geared
meager nebula
do you have lucid?
solid nova
^
night vale
I guess haste value drops with lucid dreams.. plus 27 is high
stone crescent
yeah
solid nova
Lucid lowers your haste value
meager nebula
lucid annihilates your haste stat
stone crescent
will haste go back to top when i stick it in minor instead of major you reckon?
solid nova
Probably, can sim it
meager nebula
you still get the energy procs from the minor, but it probably won't be as low
frigid sleet
why does my pocket computation device sim so high after changing the red card to the channel card, yet the APL never use the item..
ember rover
Cause the red card is overtuned as fuck.
Scales with versa and you can use it alongside plummage.
frigid sleet
but the APL doesnt use it ...
frigid sleet
mine doesnt when I have it equipped, it use lurkers, and yet I sim higher with lurker/pocket than lurker/any passive trinket
I dont get it
frail quiver
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
frigid sleet
I'm nightly ofc
frigid sleet
no clue whats going on then
spice surge
?
If its simming higher than other trinkets its using it
And also, just link the sim instead if you're confused, way easier to figure out whats going on then
frigid sleet
its fine , I figured out where my idiocy was
wide hedge
combining Cyclotronic Blast with Vendetta sounds sick, does it work like that tho?
faint harness
It doesnt get increased dmg
wide hedge
oh it doesnt? sadface
rigid mango
Vend does only inc damage of rogue abilities
wide hedge
so use it before vendetta or after vendetta? someone tried it out yet?
wide hedge
kk ty mah dude
strange python
use it after the rupture
hidden plinth
do you guys run lucid major and worldvein minor if your meelemates run the trait too ? (something like 4 or 5 meeles with worldvein) or do you keep bote
mystic vault
if BotE and crit pot makes you overcap crit during MA is it better to use a different pot, delay BotE or does it not matter too much?
rigid mango
@hidden plinth it seems pretty good not sure yet tho
@mystic vault the crit pot is buggy, don't use it
wide hedge
another question: does cyclotronic blast work with master assassin's 50% aditional crit?
mystic vault
oh really thanks for that I was about to buy a bunch of them
everyone everywhere said they were op
strange python
Same as MA only gives crit to rogue abilities
mystic vault
the trinket can't crit
rigid mango
The issue w the pots are
rigid mango
Pulling you out of stealth = unusable, and not even stacking up to 20%
Unbrid fury is better it seems
The crit pot could potentially be good as a 2nd pot
mystic vault
how does the agi pot compare to the other 2?
rigid mango
Not as good as fury on st
mystic vault
thanks
tepid ridge
wich potions do we use for EP?
agility or we got something stronger
nor situational
ornate gazelle
I've noticed how high the trinket Azshara's Font of Power is simming; how does it work exactly? When do you channel the four seconds? Does it break stealth? Does it initiate combat?
I wasn't able to test it on the PTR.
high ruin
I'm not sure if bloodmallet and herodamage create their own custom APLs
but on current raidbots it just uses it on cooldown
crisp steppe
I think the herodamage interface is better generally
faint harness
But do you honestly sit there for 4 seconds
I JUST CANT see that being that good
i simply cant
my brain hurts
inner tree
yea 3300 agi isn't good at all lul
crisp steppe
?
faint harness
yea but you spend 4 seconds not even hitting the boss (i assume)
faint harness
4 SECONDS not doing anything
inner tree
it could be a 10sec channel it would still be broken
faint harness
no it wouldnt
inner tree
you're delusional if you think it's bad
faint harness
do you auto-attack in your opener
high ruin
Well currently on Raidbots sims, the trinket honestly kinda sucks
faint harness
Its obviously not bad
crisp steppe
its just the opener
high ruin
so I think you probably do more than just use it on cooldown
crisp steppe
after the opener you'd be able to go into channeling with low energy
eveerytime you use it yea
inner tree
raid trinkets sim are broken atm
rigid mango
I can see it being good or bad, it'll come down to real life testing 
rigid mango
You get like 8 sec is I'd assume
If 4 is 30
7.5 sec you'd get if it was linear
Realistically all you want is 20 sec for vend maybe
inner tree
3 agi pot for 30sec at the cost of 4sec channel
rigid mango
But we'll see I suppose
inner tree
in what world isn't that good
faint harness
you act like you'll sit there with a 445 font of power week one
its not going to be 3300 of the bat
rigid mango
2900 from hx c iirc
inner tree
heroic is 3k
rigid mango
I still see it being good
faint harness
cus its bis for pretty much everyone
rigid mango
Just be thr best player then
crisp steppe
the trinket is obviously very powerful
inner tree
you'll eventually get it that's not eh question
crisp steppe
yes its awkward in the opener perhaps
outside of that it should be great
even in the opener im pretty confident its worth
faint harness
just use it pre-pull
rigid mango
Just channel it w cyclonic
inner tree
with how bursty our cd is it's obviously good af
spice surge
Its a decent trinket, but a forged lurker or a big pvp badge is probably gonna be better
simple meteor
wtf this patch fucking with our opener so much first the new crit pot now this shit trinket
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
crisp steppe
I suspect this trinket is more powerful for agi/str users than intellect users. when you consider that agi/str users generally have less primary stats than int users
rigid mango
Think u mean plumage eleem
faint harness
i hate the idea of using the font of power
its obviously going to be good
but the idea behind the trinket is boring
simple meteor
same push
inner tree
4sec is nothing as an assa rogue
faint harness
its not about how much it is, its about the concept of the trinket
inner tree
exactly
faint harness
but then you ADAD
dusky tinsel
you'd still be capped in the opener though because you want the agility for vendetta window
crisp steppe
its cooler than flat on use stats. but yeah it doesn't seem very cool to me either.
vast forum
Just prechannel?
faint harness
oh well, we shall see
vast forum
You have a fuckin pulltimer for a reason
faint harness
yea i assume you'd just pre-channel it obviously
spice surge
@rigid mango Plummage is only 20s though
faint harness
its like a channeled mana trinket for healers
hot copper
!Essence
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd
crisp steppe
@vast forum I think that would work yeah. I think its mainly resource stats that get reset on pull.
inner tree
just channel it pre pull with your crit pot ez opener
faint harness
crit pot 
rigid mango
Thinking I'll ever grind for pvp badge 
faint harness
i hope they fix the pot before mythic
rigid mango
Yoppa carry me in pvp pls
vast forum
Most, if not all other melee specs want high uptime, assa doesn't care
spice surge
But i mean, 425 lurkers sim better than 440 plummage on raidbots already
vast forum
No 
rigid mango
rigid mango
Uwu
spice surge
?
vast forum
425 lurker is fun
vast forum
Just titanforge on heroic looooool 
faint harness
not worried about uunat
vast forum
I think 8.2 is my lucky patch
rigid mango
I don't even have one yet 
golden bobcat
anyone else finding blood major and world veins minor beating lucid in sims?
rigid mango
Depends on worldvein people
faint harness
Blood major and lucid minor beats all of it for me personally
simple meteor
same for now atleast
golden bobcat
veins is 1k + extra sim for me over lucid
spice surge
That sounds of
golden bobcat
ya with 5
night vale
hey guys, on the queens court boss, when they cast "repeat performance" (casting the same spell twice in a row will stun/silence for 2 seconds) hows best to deal with this? Ie im at 0 CP i cast mutilate to 2/3 cp, then what next? fan of kives, poison knife? or something else
marble hemlock
pool energy, garrote
i think on PTR you could literally just cast detection to get around that lock-out
night vale
@marble hemlock cheers Seli, yeah i heard that detection worked on ptr, but presumed they'd fix it when it goes live.... but, you never know
marble hemlock
well, it worked on inquisitor boss in vault of the wardens in legion, which had a similar mechanic
rigid mango
Binding detection 
night vale
i imagine you can also kick every now and then to break it up too and off GCD
vast forum
Kick, evasion, cloak (if not needed in the rest of the fight)
rigid mango
@vast forum how much do u sim for now?
dim yacht
with this whole channel trinket thing...cant we just like channel it prepull lol
with a proper pull timer
solid nova
No, Mecha one
rigid mango
If not, fuck no
dim yacht
im talkig about azshara trink
rigid mango
Oh
dim yacht
like, what stops us just using it prepull
rigid mango
See dicky?
solid nova
A trinket no one has yet
rigid mango
Nothing
onyx rock
Whats the cd on the mecha trinket ?
dim yacht
so seems like a pretty god tier trink to me
solid nova
2mins
dim yacht
use on prepull, and then use it on low energy
onyx rock
And its not on gcd ?
dim yacht
ideally before vendetta
onyx rock
So we can macro 2 2min trinkets ?
dim yacht
are there any sims for eternal palace trinkets?
dim yacht
fair enough, but still curious
spice surge
That doesnt mean they're perfectly accurate
real bay
soon ppl will have them in game and can test ez
spice surge
But regardless, the trinket from azshara is almost surely good
strange python
you guys gonna run loyal till the end
dim yacht
does hero damage have sims on the bethenic pieces?
strange python
my guilds got a few shitters so prob gonna use it 😂
rigid mango
It seems good
strange python
wut
onyx rock
Well isnt ther just one good azerit in raid anyways
strange python
it's currently 385 though
faint harness
shoulderpads of frothing rage doesnt seem terrible, probably better pieces from m+ tho
spice surge
Well yeah, they seem fine, the dd one is probablyreally good
rigid mango
Chest w ttk loyal op
onyx rock
Gorok Tul till 9.0 ❤
rigid mango
real bay
just get goraks again ez
hollow junco
rerolling the same exact M+ azerite pieces i have now at a higher item level is not engaging gameplay
spice surge
Yeah most likely just gonna use the exact same pieces as last season
dim yacht
@spice surge
im not asking which bethenic pieces are best, im just asking if there are full sims for them, because im looking for them
hollow junco
roll the dice again to keep using...what i already have
spice surge
🤷
rigid mango
Rolling chest first 
hollow junco
not happy about this
rigid mango
Cepha or bust
faint harness
the head from za'qul is pretty much bis
spice surge
You can sim them yourself if you want to find out nate.
faint harness
np-dd-op
rigid mango
Ye obv
marble hemlock
really weird that they didnt introduce upgrade-tokens that you buy with residue
spice surge
But no, there is no herodamage listing for them
marble hemlock
that let you upgrade an azerite piece you own by 30ilvl
dim yacht
okay thank you, thats what i was asking
marble hemlock
or 15, and you can use it until it hits max ilvl
onyx rock
Thats a rly good idea seli
hollow junco
yes seliathan, that would have been a good move
dim yacht
seems pretty dumb that 425 that you can legit buy world questnig beats a 445
spice surge
🤷 Getting them to 425 and with a socket requires a fair bit of work
faint harness
200 pearls, ish
hollow junco
280 mana pearls and counting spent on trying to roll boots with a socket
faint harness
- gambling
onyx rock
Even 405 crit boots wihout socket are beating 445 socket boots in my sim 
marble hemlock
just get lucky 
mighty elm
I mean just save residuum and buy it
onyx rock
Not by much but still
marble hemlock
its pure RNG
real bay
just bracers missing 
strange python
seli doesn't have them yet :PepeLaugh:
marble hemlock
ive got all 4 items, so both belts, boots and bracers with socket, and already had time to upgrade 2 of those to 420, meanwhile others havent gotten boots with socket yet
strange python
seli doesn't have them yet PepeLaugh
spice surge
He does though
faint harness
PepeLaugh
onyx rock
I have givin up on roll for sockets. I just start upgrading none socket ones
Still good
strange python
yeah it's obviously rng and it sucks but most of them won't have put the effort in with feeding from alts
let's be honest fammmm
marble hemlock
faint harness
i have bracers and boots with sockets, all i care about to be honest
strange python
put that grind in yo
marble hemlock
thats with 2x385 items.... benthic gear is stupid
spice surge
Not using 2 agi gems 
faint harness
its 50
strange python
people are never happy basically when it comes to wow
at least it was something to do for the past week
urban junco
lol
vast forum
yea roll random pieces until you get a socket
vast forum
i wouldn't mind benthic gear costing 50 each if it just gave you a socket, rather than 5 each but chance for socket
i did end up being very lucky but it's still a shit system
marble hemlock
its a good reason to not be happy though, forcing the bloodshard vendor into wow, basically limiting the amount of currency you can get, and making it super RNG if you get teh item you want with the right forge.... thats just dumb
onyx rock
^
marble hemlock
this d3-ification of wow is sickening
urban junco
Well, in D3 the blood shard system is designed to get you optimal gear at a cost. Benthic gear was postured as a 'catch up' for alts.
vast forum
i got all 3 bis items with socket in ~20 rolls
marble hemlock
they also removed the initial abyssal focus quest
so people who did it before the removal basically "wasted" 75 pearls on it 😃
vast forum
with some non-bis socketed items on the way
bright smelt
really?
rigid mango
Yoppa lucky man
bright smelt
removing it without compensation is gay af
strange python
yeah that's aids
marble hemlock
they just shouldnt be able to roll sockets
strange python
didn't know that
marble hemlock
and the problem wouldnt exist
vestal wren
the effects should be utility
and no socket
given how bad gear scaling is the effects can only be good or terrible
spice surge
Disagree, i think the effects are way more fun than 60%mastery and 40% haste
onyx rock
Like i said yesterday i hope they will nerf it. I got al lot of hate for this but i still hope it
vestal wren
the problem of the effects is that they due to gear scaling are either to strong or useless
there is no real in-between
spice surge
Although they should have slightly reduced regular secondaries like CoS items do
marble hemlock
theyll nerf the effectiveness of the bonus-effects or reduce the secondary stats those items provide before mythic opens
vestal wren
we will see
urban junco
^
marble hemlock
only thing i dont like about these effects on items, is that they push vers to be the best secondary stat
which is by far the most boring one
vestal wren
removing the initial quest and reducing socket chance seems wired given how many already fished for those
well versa push comes from essences and trinkets
rotund mural
Hey, is it worth sticking with socketed boots but not the crit ones, the mastery ones? i just keep spending these manapearls and cant get the ones that give crit xD
onyx rock
I mean i dont know if its true with the stealth nerf but i guess it is. There was a socket on almost every piece in the first days and now i see people in my guild that open like 30 boots and like 2 og them have a Socket
faint harness
i mean you couldnt finish the quest after 75 pearl turn in anyway
i dont see the problem
the quest you got was for the raid
scarlet sequoia
@rotund mural rofl u know the bis ones give haste mastery yeah? its the effect you want 😄
rotund mural
i know man, but it's frustrating
not getting them, i mean i do but not with socket
ohh wait i didn't mean the stat, i meant the effect, there's boots that have some crit effect, the other ones give mastery every time you kill abberation or smth
onyx rock
You could just start upgrading your none socket ones to 425 an fish for a Socket after...
I guess overall that will be better
onyx rock
Why
lime junco
scarlet sequoia
^
onyx rock
None Socket ones are simming way higher then 445 bis stat gear anyways
rotund mural
yeah but like this spent over 300 and just can't get those 😦
spice surge
Why spend 280 pearls on upgrading something that isnt bis
onyx rock
But thats not true. Even without a Socket they are big
scarlet sequoia
@rotund mural do quests on your alts and send over benthic tokens like that
rotund mural
i shall
spice surge
Well you can spend 200 of those 280 pearls to roll for another pair with a socket
And have the 415 one with a socket be better than the 425 one
onyx rock
Yeah and then you dont get one
scarlet sequoia
if youre eu today is a good day to do alt stuff, free 25 pearls from emissary
onyx rock
? For me it was 3k ap
scarlet sequoia
ah im an alliance gamer
rotund mural
same
strange python
eww
polar cape
Eu biases all over <.<
solid nova
Imagine not being in #wow-general
marble tartan
Do you think that the Vision of Perfection Build with 3x Nothing Personal is viable in the new Raid encounters?
steady grotto
Does vision pop the nothing personal damage and energy regen??
ember rover
@steady grotto it does not.
Not on PTR, at least, dunno if they will change it for live.
spice surge
Which is how the sims are handling it
Yes it decent, but the cooldown reductiong of the minor is literally useless since we have multiple cooldowns we stack
So overall not a very strong essence
steady grotto
Fair enough
marble tartan
I know but in combination with the dmg buff and the Nothing Personal traits it should deal decent dmg
faint harness
is it dmg enough to replace another major?
olive wharf
Crazy how vision is turning out eh for Sin and possibly really good for OL when I figured it might be the opposite.
marble tartan
Dunno if you saw the video of Infexious trying and testing it out
faint harness
all things considered, you gotta compare it to another major
olive wharf
Which is probably memory or guardian?
faint harness
memory isnt big in major slots
compared to other essences lucids major portion is quite small
it has a really strong minor
marble tartan
so before getting the guardian essence its viable to get the vision of perfection for a decent dmg buff
olive wharf
So guardian major, memory minor?
faint harness
better off just using crucible of flames, but as always.. to not mislead.. sim yourself
olive wharf
For sure, I'm just lazy unless I can top gear things, haha.
How's blood looking btw? Guildie of mine going nuts for it and he's gonna play sin this tier
And I had different thoughts
ember rover
Blood R3 is better than any R2 currently.
scarlet sequoia
very nice for burst mate
faint harness
blood major is really good before you get guardian
olive wharf
But guardian will likely be better
faint harness
yes
olive wharf
He doesn't even have r2 yet but I'm 15k away from r3
(though sin is what I play when OL just isn't cutting it)
spice surge
Most are expecting guardian to be nerfed in some way, which would allow for blood to be good
marble tartan
So guardian in major, and in the both minors lucid dreams and crucible?
spice surge
But even if blood isnt the highest simming one
Its still useful if you need heavy burst
olive wharf
I assume blood is just good for the crit bonus?
faint harness
real bay
who wants to farm honor for me
faint harness
make it a guild event smileyface
olive wharf
Did traits change at all for us btw or is DD/NP still the go to for ST?
faint harness
enlist as alliance and reap the benefits
spice surge
@olive wharf The +crit damage of bote is nice but most of its power is from the crit chance
faint harness
i dunno if eleem can confirm any of this but my impression is that they are awaiting potential nerfs before doing any bigger sims
spice surge
25% crit chance is 1800 crit (which is basicly two lurkers worth of stats)
misty tusk
When I get to my 2nd Vendetta, do I wait the 20 sec to line it up with Vanish or just let it line up with the 3rd?
spice surge
Well, theres lots of things that needs to be done, actually getting live data is one of them
faint harness
have they been hiding trinket data? Still? I know that was a thing pre 8.2
spice surge
But you still need to configure proper setups, herodamage is still suing the 415 set
olive wharf
@spice surge Gotcha.
@faint harness For traits or essences?
spice surge
There is basicly nothing changing for trait
The only thing is that lucid makes double dose better
olive wharf
So still DD/NP for ST?
spice surge
But it was already the best, so
faint harness
well you know, some kind of weird combination of new essences and trinkets can make something else really good
imagine tripple stacking NP with BotE 3 with Font of power trinket
omegadmg
ripe nimbus
All I know is world vein on melee is poggers had like 90%+ uptime got all our melee to use it
spice surge
Agi doesnt increase NP damage though 
spice surge
Vers and mastery yes
faint harness
this game dood
spice surge
Same with SS bleeds
faint harness
no wonder agility is shit huh
spice surge
Or rather, the added damage from ss. Agi obv increases garrote damage
marble tartan
Do you guys know the ID for Vision of Perfection?
scarlet sequoia
23623624
spice surge
Depends on what ID you want. You can scroll up in #tc-research too and find a list of all essence IDs
@olive wharf I dont think that statement is a joke tbh, a well forged lurkers is going to be hard to beat
olive wharf
Also vers seems inflated this tier cuz of essences scaling with it. It's my highest stat and OL sims say it's tied with crit
spice surge
Although the aszhara trinket is surely more easy to come by
marble tartan
thx
olive wharf
@spice surge the 455 was the joke
scarlet sequoia
what essence are you guys using since vers is so high for you
olive wharf
I am running a heroic one atm, it's too damn good (for Sin only obs, terrible for OL)
spice surge
Its not only essences raz, people that have vers as their best stat generally have multiple damage procs
faint harness
btw, does anyone know if Lucid rank 3 increases its RPPM??
olive wharf
@scarlet sequoia atm running crucible or pp major, memory minor, but that's on OL. With Sin as my OS, I haven't devoted too much time to simming
faint harness
during a rare mob i had 90% uptime on the vers buff from lucid minor
olive wharf
Force multiplier feels like that too @faint harness. These procs are nice
scarlet sequoia
i have 50% mastery probably why
scarlet sequoia
i have shrouded on shoulders
gambled all of last tier so never really got gorak tul 😄
hate to see it
ripe nimbus
Subterfuge is the superior playstyle anyway prove me wrong
scarlet sequoia
yeah i prefer it too
scarlet sequoia
well to my understanding, theres not rly any pure single target bosses in the new raid
so shrouded prolly gonna be nice
ripe bramble
@marble hemlock is that confirmed?
@marble hemlock sorry was reading old stuff, is it confirmed the 75 pearls for crafting bench are wasted?
faint harness
the first 3 bosses are all ST @scarlet sequoia
thorn edge
Hey guys, it has been a week or so since I checked this disc. Has anyone done the sims for the mechagon trinket? Is there a list of BiS punchcards for ST and MT/M+? I checked the pins but didn't see anything (sorry if I missed it)
olive wharf
No ST bosses? You mean I don't HAVE to play Sin? C:
scarlet sequoia
first 3 bosses are about as irrelevant as anything lets be real
faint harness
true but still
the queens court is pretty much ST too
i dont think you can move around freely on that fight
aka dot up the 2nd boss
olive wharf
I haven't even looked up stuff yet. I usually do the night before/the day of
scarlet sequoia
will see i guess, i have gear for MA as well but yeah
faint harness
same im just looking at dungeon journal stuff atm
ive watched some PTR videos
you want burst on azshara though, that much is clear
ancient compass
Is Sin going to be top rogue spec this tier?
olive wharf
I usually read DJ while watching videos to see if stuff changed from it, but yeah, haven't looked up a single fight, only look at loot tables and owo first bosses drop our best weapons.
@ancient compass Hope not since it always is.
ancient compass
Same hahaha
faint harness
what if outlaw becomes the best spec cus that dmg storing weapon is nutters
olive wharf
Hoping Vision+Loaded Dice just destroys Sin TBH
But because it's RNG, some will still play Sin since it's way more consistent.
scarlet sequoia
wtb subtlety
olive wharf
(it's almost like an RNG spec should have way higher ceilings)
faint harness
- sub
olive wharf
I'd be fine with Sub too
I don't want to play it, but I'd be happy with Sub getting love.
green saffron
Hi, I have a question and need some information. I play Shadow (priest) for raid, and Outlaw (Rogue) for MD+. Should I focus on Rogue this patch, I feel farming essence for 2 classes would be impossible for me atm. So, will Sin be any good in MD+ and Raid now?
gusty plinth
quasi pewter
@green saffron sin looks like its gonna be very strong in both this patch yea
neat estuary
i was just checking the azerite pieces from the new raid
am i missing something or are they just complete garbage?
quasi pewter
bis traits from 2nd to last boss and decent traits from orgoza other than that not great yea
faint harness
one of them has DD-NP-OP
quasi pewter
no good m+ pieces aswell
neat estuary
yea dd-np is from 2nd to last boss
was pretty much the only one
and tbf sivara has a good outlaw piece
faint harness
remains to be seen how good loyal to the end will be
quasi pewter
definitely gonna be a chest gamble first
neat estuary
you prefer gambling over just waiting for a specific?
quasi pewter
yea im gonna go specific that i can buy when progress is over
5Head
depends on how fast you progress but i cant afford to wait
neat estuary
2d CE guild here
neat estuary
usualy we do not progress super fast, and wiping is hardly due to doing less dps
karmic kite
isnt it like 7 weeks to buy a specific item
quasi pewter
how much is specific?
neat estuary
idk depends on how high you push your keys
faint harness
it will take the exact same amount of time as it does in 8.1
just different numbers
stable yarrow
feel like its alway better to gamble
faint harness
Yes
quasi pewter
it is at the start
hollow stone
Its usually better to gamble but not always
neat estuary
i played around 2,2k rio in s2 and could afford 3 specific pieces by the end of the tier
stable yarrow
yeah but by the end of the tier u should just save ur resi for next tier lol
neat estuary
i ment it just as a general benchmark
olive wharf
It's a shame Sin got shafted so hard on Azerite this time around. Outlaw literally has all its BiS pieces in the raid, on bosses 1, 3, 6, also BiS weapons on 1st and 2nd.
(though Sin can also grab 2 daggers off the first boss, which is nice; BoD was cancer not having any daggers til Opulence, lol)
faint harness
its one way of balancing
i heard affliction warlocks dont have good azerite in the raid either
i would be really surprised if sub doesnt have bis traits in the raid too
crisp steppe
shafted in what way @olive wharf
neat estuary
that will result in a few lucky bastards gambling the bis items early on, completely destroying the dps meters, followed by a heavy nerf which makes the specc completely undesireable
@crisp steppe in the way that there are no good azerites for assa, whereas bod had i think 2/3 bis IIRC
crisp steppe
looks like theres some decent items there. maybe not 3x bis trait but idk if you can expect that
neat estuary
not expect, but at least strive for i guess ^^
marble tartan
do we have simdps for eternal palace for all classes
neat estuary
it just means we have a harder time gearing
olive wharf
@crisp steppe BiS Azerite.
OL literally has every single trait it wants, all 4 of them (3x Deadshot, 1x Ace, 1x Wits, 1x Brigand Blitz), all lined up perfectly, off bosses 1/3/6.
Sin is nowhere close to that.
hollow stone
I wouldnt worry about rogue tbh. Worst case we arent top melee dps in raid but are still basically required for m+. Fair trade off
olive wharf
Oh I was never worried.
night vale
luck of the draw, it was the same stuff with weapon relics in legion iirc
vast forum
in 8.1.5, it's 7 weeks to buy specific if you push +20
olive wharf
It would just be nice not to have to rely on Resid.
crisp steppe
like undulating tides could be good depending on the encounter. can't really count that one out
faint harness
sub has a ton of good traits from first bosses too
hollow stone
Undulating is good
crisp steppe
I know it is
crisp steppe
I know that at least 2 of the slots available in the raid sim very well
past marten
Did anyone validate whether the SimC APL is using the Blood Essence optimally?
crisp steppe
being helm/chest
faint harness
it does now afaik
past marten
So using it after Vendetta is optimal?
crisp steppe
yes
faint harness
yea why not
crisp steppe
if you do some math you'll see that rank3 blood is a bigger dmg multiplier than vendetta
spice surge
What
past marten
Sorry, I didn't mean "Using it after Vendetta"