no but a small amount of the time still left (30%?) will be added to the time
#assassination
light narwhal
tall basalt
cool cool, ty
scenic wraith
pandemic window is like 5. x and 7.x with 4 and 5 cp's i think, but dont quote me on that
real bay
6s with 4cp 7.2s 5cp
light narwhal
and 5.4 seconds for garrote
real bay
y
elfin valley
Are there any fights where y'all are talking FoK talent or CT during BoD, I haven't found any real use for it
vast forum
Pb all the way
light narwhal
don't think so so many ST fights in BoD
elfin valley
Yeah and even opulence the loss of Poison bomb just for aoe feels terrible. Just checking ☺️
light narwhal
yeah because you get like what 2-3 packs of adds. not worth it taking anything else then PB
elfin valley
Kinda hate how m+ trinkets are still the best and will be till next tier :/
Well unless something gets nerfed/buffed
light narwhal
just need to get lucky!
raven mica
I mean, SS isnt even a bad ST talent
light narwhal
both fights are pretty much ST specially blockade so i would say no
tribal marlin
Actually (with Subter in both case) I loose 250 simdps switching from inge helm to 415 SS+Twist
patent topaz
rastakhan is the only fight id say ss was worth in
real bay
SS feels decent for mekka too so much running 
patent topaz
but im not gonna respec all of my armour for a shitty hc boss
raven mica
If you're rocking 3x DD 1x NP 1x SS 1x TC I think that'd probably just BiS ST anyways
tribal marlin
I'm running 3xDD 1xNP 1xInfusion + inge trait
patent topaz
I run 3xDD 1 blightborne 1 tc 1 NP, MA
tribal marlin
only 0.1% difference between MA and subter so I can definitly go subter, but even with subter SS+Twist is 200 under DD+inge trait
raven mica
Yea I would have to run, if I had sin azerite.........
3x SS, 1x Ruinous Bolt, 1x SoB, 1x TTK
Oh wait no hold up
tribal marlin
Oh and I'm talking about mythique Rastakan and Blockade not hc
I mean progression wise
raven mica
1x DD, 1x NP, 2x SS, 1x Ruinous Bolt, 1x TTK
tribal marlin
ttk ?
raven mica
Twist The Knife
tribal marlin
time to kill :3 ?
real bay
I like to keep at least one SS, just for smoothness
tribal marlin
oh ok
raven mica
Ya I got CUCKED on sin azerite, I still got 385 shoulders
light narwhal
i got the helm from first boss on NM, HM and mythic xD
tribal marlin
well if I could replace blightborn or inge trait with SS i'll do but I'll have to give up with DD if I want SS
light narwhal
alright let me make your day worse then
rose sapphire
Ditch the SS guys, its time to move on!.. DD+ NP or TC is the way to go
light narwhal
i got a 415 galecallers and dice in the first week one from weekly chest 
raven mica
idk Im just maining outlaw this tier
fuck it
I dont get cucked by azerite like I do on sin
light narwhal
with my luck this raid im getting 2 425 daggers this week !
raven mica
Although the 415 piece I got today was the waycrest chest so ya know I have 1/3 pieces for BiS M+ assassination
real bay
can't wait to open chest and get shitty wrists
light narwhal
thats not terrible actually 😛
light narwhal
guess you are a sin after all
light narwhal
isn't outlaw kinda rng with dps?
vast forum
Not so much in aoe
raven mica
yea in AOE it's incredibly consistent
It's a 50/50 of whether or not you have the crit buff
vast forum
I mean, broadsides is also great for aoe
rancid bobcat
Is there a suggestion on which random 415 azerite slot would give the best result?
Or best chance at something good
bleak spoke
All of them have like 1 jank piece 2 shitty pieces and 3 good pieces
Just get what you need
rancid bobcat
Kinda edging away from TC traits but with head and shoulders early in the raid I was thinking of chest
light narwhal
depends on what pieces you already have
raven mica
Chest is easily your best purchase
light narwhal
and if you want a piece for M+ or raiding
bleak spoke
^
bleak spoke
Also if you play subt or ma, tox or exsang all the pieces are dramatically different in value
light narwhal
for raiding i would say chest because first two bosses drop the best pieces in other slots imo
raven mica
Except that we’re assuming that he’s gonna swap to whatever sims higher for him
bleak spoke
Yeah I’ve got that shitty problem where I have a good piece for every build but no setup that’s bis for any zzz
raven mica
I got the waycrest chest
Which is amazing for M+ assassination and sub but garbage for every other spec.
pseudo finch
Got a 410 wep from weekly and NP / DD traits on a 415 chest today from the Az vendor
great day
bleak spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6fKmJwrnPqtDAtXTigy7BQ 7 sockets and simming lower than ppl 5 ilevels under me cuz shitty traits woo
bleak spoke
every time i get an upgrade i'm told by the sims to reforge and run a different talent setup zzz
pseudo finch
those traits are amazing imo, i would chenge trinkets more than anything
elfin valley
Yeah trinkets are p bad
raven mica
Yea ur trinkets are garbo
pseudo finch
I would go to bed fapping everynight with those traits
bleak spoke
yeh my trinkets are depleted af
cold meteor
"shitty traits" 
raven mica
My traits suck but I have a 400 spyglass, loaded dice, and galecallers on me so.
pseudo finch
literally triggered the whole discord 😄
bleak spoke
i can't seem to replace the taloc trinket
raven mica
Spam M+
bleak spoke
believe me i do :x
elfin valley
Spam freehold 5 and up or shrine 5 and up
bleak spoke
running anything under 10 just feels like a waste of time to me tbh but i guess it's worth kinda
raven mica
You could nolife plumage if I wanted to as well
bleak spoke
yeh i've done lots of kings
light narwhal
which trinket would you want from seige?
raven mica
I just hate KR
bleak spoke
i think plummage is probably the most versatile trinket if you'd pardon the pun
raven mica
The spyglass.
bleak spoke
like you can use it with any setup and it'll be anywhere from very good to the best
light narwhal
aah
raven mica
Nah that’s loaded dice
elfin valley
And the 3rd boss trinket is terrible for ST
bleak spoke
alright that's fair
but in terms of on-use trinkets
i want to play galecaller's spyglass the most but the more i play it the worse exsang seems
raven mica
Yea just macro it to vendetta
rancid bobcat
When's relinquished trinket vendor
rancid bobcat
bleak spoke
seli made a point a few days ago that we have enough crit that exsang energy regen isnt' worth the global in dungeons nowadays
i tried that EB tox blade pbomb build and it blasts
pseudo finch
370 Plumage actually outsims 370 dooms wake for me, although it's very small
elfin valley
Honestly I just said fuck sin for dungeons, the work you put into it typically doesn't feel like it pays off when on outlaw I completely out perform sin in most cases
bleak spoke
idk why doom's wake sims so good on herodamage/bloodmallet
elfin valley
Rly high keys I can see sin being used again
bleak spoke
it seems anti-synergy with the way vendetta works
raven mica
Apparently when you get a crit trinket, 3x SS and 3x echo’ing, Sin becomes a fucking god
bleak spoke
3 ss 3 echo spyglass galecallers
that is some big blast
then exsang is definitely worth and probably CT as well
elfin valley
How do you even get a spyglass btw...
bleak spoke
siege
elfin valley
What about the on use one?
bleak spoke
that's a myth
quick ice
world quests
elfin valley
The actually op one
quick ice
need god tier luck
bleak spoke
same with azurethos's, incessantly ticking clock and pearl diver's
they're all myths
raven mica
A bigger myth than subtlety rogues
bleak spoke
sad part is i'm sure there's people out there who have socketed forged 425s of those that are just so bad it doesn't even help them
it's really sad, sub is depleted even in shrine now
at least for the 10-14s i've been running
elfin valley
@raven mica woah there buckaroo that's a pretty tall standard to meet lol. What about a bigger myth than Hunter dps right now
bleak spoke
before tfd nerf was actually competitive and dmg profile felt really good
especially on that last week
solid nova
bleak spoke
sorry richard
on the topic of traits from earlier, anyone super underwhelmed by SOB in literally anything?
quick ice
3SOB 3EB MA build 🤔
tribal marlin
yes it is
bleak spoke
i think pearl diver's would probably be nutty for m+ running ct
quick ice
looks like zul sim 😃
bleak spoke
on sin
bronze kelp
@raven mica for what reason ?
raven mica
Way better outlaw gear+more fun, I waited for it to be good since like fucking nighthold
bleak spoke
lots of stuff i'd like to try but it's ust impossible to find those trinkets
like that berserker juju one someone was talking about in here
that you can activate with galecaller's
tribal marlin
Switched for progression purpose, as soon as we clear I go back to sub
bronze kelp
@raven mica okay, thats a reason. i got 3EB 3SS in first week, so assa was so fast so fun 😃 dont like the outlaw playstyle for myself
light narwhal
give grappling hook to sin and im sin forever
bronze kelp
i want just a 2 charge shadowstep
zinc zephyr
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
zinc zephyr
can't decide what armor slot to buy.. 😦
high siren
go for the chest
lament dove
the specific ones you see at the vendor, those can be bought randomly, right? or are there more in the random bag?
quick ice
thats the entire list for the random bag
lusty saddle
What part of azerite piece is the smartest to buy?
tribal marlin
If you are doing mythic progression be sure to not buying same slot than your friends so you can trade each others
If you no care about your guild progression, buy the slot you might not have on first bosses
smoky moth
tribal marlin
socket boy
zinc zephyr
385 shoulder sims higher for m+ than a 415.. all hail broken SS trait!
bleak spoke
I wonder if some weird dungeon prio damage build can be done with some ttk and sob running marked for death
real bay
ofcourse SS sims higher for multitarget
by this logic EB is completely broken as it's better to use a 370 azerite than not have it
zenith gust
guys, i have a piece where i have to choose between ancients bulwark or SoB. bulwark sims better for both m+ and ST. but is bulwakr as good as it sims? should i take SoB? :/
spice surge
@bleak spoke Mfd isnt really worth it, just get ttk and tb with your eb
Its what seli was running a few days ago, he likes it
But idk i havent tried it
tribal marlin
Is there any gain pooling before TB with 3xDD ?
marble hemlock
if youre playing subterfuge in m+, which you should, you need to play vigor
playing subterfuge without the max-energy from vigor is just not doable
or rather, not a fun experience
frail rose
Hey, just got a new chest, currently runnin 1x EB 1x SS and can choose between 2nd of one of those (for m+ only ofc). rather eb or ss?
bleak spoke
Ah okay
ocean rampart
@frail rose EB, imo.
frozen hemlock
Hi guys. Can we dodge the spears at KR last boss with evasion?
vast forum
I'd say ss
scenic shale
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
scenic shale
there we go lol
vestal wren
😃
cloud iris
On herodamage, "raidboss with adds" how many adds is that and for how long?
frail rose
dat moment when you don´t have a good raid anymore, want to focus on m+ and only get insane st gear...
scenic shale
i triple double dose, double covenant and single NP bis ?
quick ice
in theory yes
scenic shale
so champions helm , jadefire shoulder, tinker body is best combo, feel good man all raid gear
fluid mist
The gore chest is very good aswell
From m+
And spymaster something has np and dd
So it’s not bad either
frail rose
yeah just got the spymaster chest from residuum
marble hemlock
@frozen hemlock yes, evasion lets you completely avoid the spears on KR last boss
frozen hemlock
@marble hemlock thanks mate
real bay
gonna buy chest and pray , it will take ages for us to get M Mekka
light narwhal
the azerite pieces you can buy are only M+ pieces right ? if you look at the specific ones none of em have TC
zinc zephyr
should I pop galecallers with vendetta or exanguinate?
marble hemlock
yes
-With Toxic Blade: On cooldown
-With Exsanguinate: Do NOT hold exsang for every galecaller. Use them seperately on cooldown with the exception of the third galecaller use, which you want to delay to line up with vendetta+vanish+exsang at around 2:25```quoted straight up from the 📌
zinc zephyr
yea i saw that
but the question was, macro it with vendetta or with exsang? can't do both
i hate gcd
marble hemlock
using it manually isnt an option?
marble hemlock
i suggest having it on a seperate hotkey, since you want to use it when both exsang/vendetta are on cd already and it makes it easier to see the cooldown of the trinket if its on a seperate hotkey. if you dont want to do that, it wont matter what ability you bind it with, since you only ever use either one of them+GCB when you also use the third ability
main mirage
IS crimson tempest always the goto in m+ or only in fortified weeks?
tribal marlin
depend dunjon
main mirage
Any cheat-sheet, or do i just gotta figure it out by playing more?
tribal marlin
Any tc here can help me understand this : ```energy.regen+poisoned_bleeds7%(2spell_haste)````
is poisoned_bleeds = 1 if target is bleeding ?
% is modulo I guess but what value have spell_haste ?
marble hemlock
heavily dependant on how well you play and your stats @main mirage
id suggest go play poison bomb, and if you notice yourself being able to cast envenom all the time on bigger pulls, you might wanna switch to CT for slightly more trashdamage and slightly less boss-damage
the more crit you have and the better you are at multidotting, the more time and resources you have to utilize CT well
generally its something like freehold+ML = ct, kr/temple/siege = pb, and the other dungeons are somwhere in between
(thats for highkeys where pulls are fairly huge, if youre just pugging just play PB in every dungeon)
main mirage
Gotcha, i usually dont pug, and only do 10-15's, and ye i do find myself doing envenom more than i would like to. Also with reaping, shit dies too fast, so maybe CT on demand is good on that.
I just never got t hat into dungeons and builds for it ^^
marble hemlock
CT isnt really that great for reaping, since youre gonna run out of energy fast if you use it more than once during your opener
jagged dragon
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
marble hemlock
reaping is mostly just relying on other to kill it while you do some decent aoe just with a few EB traits
i see assa taking a more prio-damage oriented role this season
vast forum
Bring back dfa sub for that 😡
vast forum
Weapon dps matters little in aoe if i'm not mistaken
Most of your m+ dmg is garrote/rupture/deadly poison/fok
And none of those scale with wep dps iirc
Ct as well if you play it
But i would assume it matters on bosses, which m+ sim favors so idk, trust the sim i guess
candid abyss
hey, a question. i am struggling a lot with AOE as assassination when there are 3+ targets. should i try to keep garrote and rupture on all? is it worth using envenom or mutilate? or just build cps with fan of knives? thanks
trail walrus
thnx Yoppa, will use it for tyr weeks and raid I guess
obsidian sierra
Its so fucked up with azerite traits as assa right now . I have 370 with ss and eb on it or pvp 415 with ss/eb on same row and only dd on 2nd row on it. Wondering whats better now
Figuring out whats best to choose
Or scrap the 415 to get a new random 415 chance
obsidian sierra
Ok thanks
But anyways im struggling what to choose between ss and eb on the 415 shoulder. Since i only can choose between helm with ss/scent or eb/scent
strange echo
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
inner pecan
SS is a cleave talent, EB is an AoE talent
obsidian sierra
So at best, i can run with 3ss, 1 eb , 1 scent1 dd or i can run with 2 ss 2 eb 1 scent 1 dd
inner pecan
They're both the best talent in that regard
inner pecan
The 3SS setup will do better in cleave scenarios so dungeons like Temple/KR/Siege
And the 2EB setup will do better in mass AoE like Freehold/ML
there's not really a clear answer of "this is better" because those traits excel at literally different things
obsidian sierra
Ya makes sense thats the point where im stucking since i dont want to reforge every now and then. I was at 40k cost last days
Thats too much
I guess i go@for the 3 ss as a static one
inner pecan
if you don't wanna reforge I'd go SS
it'll be best on bosses and up to 3 targets
so you can also use it in raid if you do that
obsidian sierra
Yeah makes sense i guess im gonna do that thanks
I need to save tr for head now to get rid of a part of this problem
There is only one head with eb ss innthis game
Feelsbad
zinc zephyr
i have 3xSS in my m+ gear, and i could trade 1 SS for 1 EB. i just don't know if i should do it. Ofc sim says 3xSS is stronger but reaping...
quick ice
do you have any?
zinc zephyr
no
inner pecan
same ilvl if you don't have any EB at all I'd go for it
quick ice
probably worth it then
zinc zephyr
tbh all 3 of my gear is EB or SS on the first ring, and all crap on the second ring
zinc zephyr
you say it is worth to have 1 EB instead of 1 SS
inner pecan
in general yeah I would
Your ST/cleave will still be strong with 2SS
right now without EB your snap AoE must be godawful, so it's worth losing a little ST/cleave to gain a whole lot of mass aoe
sharp steeple
boys, when u guys use toxic blade all the time? i'm only using after envenom... And i'm only using Rupture again with 3 secs. What can i do to improve my dps? Sorry about my bad english and ty for your attention.
when u use toxic blade? All the time?**
quick ice
on CD
candid abyss
use it when you have enough energy to do at least 2 envenoms on this TB window
sharp steeple
@candid abyss i'm using envenom before toxic blade, but its better after?
lament dove
if possible time it to use it before envenom so it makes also envenom stronger
sharp steeple
@lament dove thats my mistake so... i'm using after envenom
lament dove
keep an eye on its CD and try to manage your energy and CPs so you can envenom right after it
rapid flame
Why would you not extend garrote on your opener with pandemic when playing with subterfuge? Seems really stupid (no shrouded traits though)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cCgsh3HHuyeQei3PsYUVR9/simc Looking at this html output
spice surge
@sharp steeple Its not relevant wether you use it before or after envenom, you just use it when its ready
Regardless of envenom
@rapid flame Because its not worth it when you dont get the combo points from SS
sharp steeple
@lament dove i'm doing something like: garrote, multilate(until 4+ cp) rupture, vendetta, multilate(6 cp) envenom, toxic blade, multilate, envenom, repeat if dot's r ending
spice surge
All the openers are in the guide in the pins
sharp steeple
@spice surge i'm following ravenholdt rotation
solid nova
Where are you getting 6cp finishers from
sharp steeple
@solid nova 5* my bad
spice surge
Well what you wrote isnt the ravenholdt opener
static pasture
@sharp steeple what's ur website for see ur gp error ?
sharp steeple
@static pasture https://wowanalyzer.com
static pasture
ty bro
candid abyss
how about the aoe rotation when its 3+ targets? is it worth using envenom and mutilate? or just only apply bleeds to targets?
sharp steeple
@candid abyss i'm using garrote and rupture in all mobs
real bay
envenom on prio target , rupture the mobs, fok with eb
candid abyss
if you play with subterfuge yeah
candid abyss
AoE with assassination seems really weird tbh
real bay
it's just dots up asap and spam fok
sharp steeple
assassination AoE its something like dots management
spice surge
It is, because its wildly different from ST
real bay
you don't need to dot all of them
real bay
you lose fok gcds, which is likely not worth it if they die quickly
candid abyss
@sharp steeple no i dont use any
sharp steeple
@candid abyss its a good one to see your dots time
u can see without use tab
to change focus
to change your target*
candid abyss
i usually try to mainting bleeds in 3 targets and the n just FOk and envenom primary target
sharp steeple
Can i see your azerite traits?
@candid abyss i'm using rupture and garrote in everyone
candid abyss
i have scent of blood - x2 double dose - 1 SS - 1 Nothing personal
solid nova
You dont need to dot everything
sharp steeple
@solid nova o dont, but isn't bad
solid nova
If you're rupturing all your targets you're wasting envenom gcds
Especially if they are dying quickly
Its a big loss.
solid nova
Im aware of the trait
spice surge
richard point is still valid
sharp steeple
and more rupture more dps btw
spice surge
Regardless of you have scent or not
summer marten
Well bloody hell... bought random 415 chest and got worst one by far. Bugged ruinous bolt or 0 dps in most cases echoing blades
candid abyss
should i only play Crimson temptest in mythic + ?
sharp steeple
nah
spice surge
!ct
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
solid nova
^
sharp steeple
poison bomb > crimson temptest
candid abyss
ive seen people say you shouldnt use envenom and mutilate if there are big pulls but ive noticed that by only applying dots my dps isnt that good
solid nova
We'll you'd be FoKing > Mut at that point
And applying dots to everything isnt that good
As explained above
sharp steeple
FoK > Mult in AoE
tribal marlin
Last time I checked html report, the bot was doting rupturing 6 target and garroting on cd in 10 targets
tribal marlin
it was pre 8.1 so no eb tho
solid nova
Yes and whats the duration of those targets in terms of uptime
spice surge
You dont garrote on aoe though
sharp steeple
U only garrote 1 time
spice surge
Because rupture does more damage for the same global
sharp steeple
When u start
obsidian sierra
Why isnt ct that good anymore? Pb shouldnt do more in aoe?
sacred vine
Guys, how is the rotation in unitarget with toxic blade?
spice surge
CT is good
old escarp
@candid abyss preface this with in a mediocre rogue. In M+ there's a lot of feely craft. For large pulls (8+) I try to get 4+ruptures out after 3x garrote. In reaping as long as I have enough ruptures out I've tried spamming CT and it seems to pull ahead of envenom
obsidian sierra
But why so often pppl say pb over ct
spice surge
Because people typically dont pull big enough to justify ct, and ct is harder to play
sharp steeple
cause if u r with a demon hunter and a mage your pb r better than ct
obsidian sierra
Dont know who would pull less and why
sharp steeple
for m+_
spice surge
Also incorrect
solid nova
Right so if you're playing with 2 burst classes, why are you rupturing so much
Thats an even bigger dps loss
real bay
p much just garrote fok dead
solid nova
You cant just rupture everything and say your aoe is fine because PB will proc
Its just factually wrong
sharp steeple
but if i'm with 2 burst classes, i'll not rupture 3+ mobs
rose perch
the decision to rupture or env is based on how long the target will survive yeah
solid nova
Exactly
sharp steeple
Exactly
sharp steeple
Only in mobs with 1m+ hp
solid nova
It doesnt work like that
obsidian sierra
On usual packs its mostly worth reapturing everything just not in reaping
sharp steeple
cause if u use garrote 3+ u end with 5 cp
rose perch
at some point in the pull you switch from ruptures to envenoms
real bay
you can do 40k with 3 garrotes one rupture
rose perch
it's just based on when stuff is going to start dying soon
swift moss
Have up to 4 garrotes and 4-5 rupture on 6+ targets anything less gar 3 rup 3 and spam envenom
obsidian sierra
I played some 17 keys yesterday and mobs there i raptures everything in non reaping pulls
swift moss
That is only if the adds live long enough to justify using that many cp for non envenom
real bay
main benefit is the energy regen
just do a low cp is fine
or agi gain if you have the trait
sharp steeple
@swift moss but u r using rupture with 3cp+ or u stack 5 and use?
swift moss
I usually use a fok and then use rup no matter how many I get unless I get 2 or less then I use again
old escarp
I vaguely recall someone doing the math for CT vs envenom for AoE (CT spam not just maintaining dot). Does anyone know at what point the CT spam is dps gain over envenom for aoe?
sharp steeple
@swift moss i'm doing the same
spice surge
@old escarp 3/4 targets, depending on your mastery
swift moss
If you spam ct though you should have 5 cp for the most dmg just like envenom
rose perch
yeah ct spam overtakes envenom pretty quick but not full-duration rupture until later
old escarp
Thanks. I've tended to spam CT on reaping packs due to mob count and low hp pools
No fear of not getting 5cp per fok
obsidian sierra
What do you guys think with eb and fok spam has mastery still so much value as before
Or just crit over mast now
spice surge
It was always crit over mastery, idk
rose perch
crit+++
obsidian sierra
No it was mastery before in mplus?
obsidian sierra
Crit was just 2nd best
real bay
30% crit 40% mast 
rose perch
crit has the added benefit of representing better priority dmg than mastery
swift moss
M+ crit>mast>haste>Vera
obsidian sierra
Because ss1 all was focused on ss and exs st dmg as well as maintaining dots on 4-8 targets
old escarp
Opinions on when ilvl loss negatively outweighs the EB gain? In FH/ML EB always the move even at 375? Assuming EB/SS piece
rose perch
so like in terms of overall even when mastery looked better than crit, crit would get the dungeon done faster
but yeah with EB now crit is just bis for both
obsidian sierra
Thanks , what i thought
Just have 27 crit and 33 mastery. I have 6 versa though since my 415 legs are from jadefire
Need another pants
Kintashi i would only take a 415 over ot
If you have 400 i would take the 375 but only if its a ss/eb item
placid lava
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
shy axle
just switched to MA/TB build. Guide says TB on Cd, are you guys pooling a considerate amount of energy before using TB or just press and forget, lets see how much we can get in this window?
sacred vine
In battle for dazar the STATS biss?
rose perch
if your tb comes up and you haven't pooled energy, you should still hit TB
obsidian sierra
Really
shy axle
most important is getting it on cd it seems
rose perch
ideally you come into the TB with energy pooled and dots refreshed
but yeah once it comes off CD you press that button
because if you ever miss a cast of it you're incinerating way more dmg than extra envenoms put into those windows
shy axle
is it worth to delay vanish to use it togheter with TB?
rose perch
the main thing to do that will automatically pool you before TB is to avoid hitting envenom until you have like 80% energy (outside of Vendetta/TB windows)
if you just do that in all situations not only will you pool for TB, you'll fit more damaging globals into your EP windows
spice surge
and into your envenom windows aswell, which is getting inceasingly important with 3x DD
shy axle
tbh i did that from wotlk thorugh to legion, but stopped it after reading here in consense that it "would not matter that much anymore just get that CP-spenders out". Good to know
but that was at the start of bfa
so
nimble tartan
U ever refresh your bleeds outside pandemic and munch seconds to get cleaner tbs
spice surge
No
rose perch
that's usually a dps loss to do yeah
past star
Im trying to farm that broken bottle transmog from the rare down at freehold, but does anybody know if its actually possible to farm a BOP blue drop from a rare in bfa?
or is it a once per day chance?
wowhead says 4% dropchance
rose perch
once per day sounds right yeah
fair blaze
@nimble tartan Refreshing outside pandemic exist only if you play exsanguinate, while playing TB you just wait you wait for 7,2s to refresh or you need to have >10s duration to not refresh it during TB window
@rose perch I was watching your stream yesterday and i saw that you are dotting spark bots to gain some extra energy. Do it really proc venomous wounds? Because when i did it i didn't feel that energy regen(but it was rather obvious that they should give energy), so i need to be sure for the next time 😄
rose perch
Hmmm I guess I don't know for sure - I felt like it was though
spice surge
It does proc wounds, but actually multidotting isnt as big of a ST gain as it might seem
So unless they are really close and you're not missing melee swings on the main target
fair blaze
And how about early dying during the rapture?
spice surge
Also, on mythic mekka you will get blasted if you attack the bots
marble hemlock
sparkbots are immune to deadly poison for some reason
fair blaze
Oh
marble hemlock
so you will not proc VW off of them
fair blaze
Here you are
real bay
old mechanical style immune to poison
fair blaze
So that's why i didn't feel energy regen
real bay
lol
umbral hemlock
you guys would recommend 3 eb with MA? if no SS?
fair blaze
Ty for clearing this out Seli
real bay
makes sense, crippling can slow but you can't damage them with poisons
marble hemlock
i just noticed it yday myself
was surprised to see it
but even after throw knife, it only applied crippling, no DP 😦
fierce pivot
Dumb question, does overwhelming power stack?
marble hemlock
yes
fair blaze
Warlocks can have shards generation, boomkins can have AP generation, but rogues can't have energy generation 
marble hemlock
its kinda sad, theres plenty of opportunity on multiple bossfights to multidot for energy gain or utilizing scent of blood
but most encounters actively deny you teh opportunity
besad indeed
fair blaze
Well you can still use Rapture on bots for SoB, but it won't probably be a dps increase instead of pressing envenom on boss
real bay
it's a waste unless you gain energy they take no damage at all
or if they did it would be useless anyway
marble hemlock
you still get the agility when you have scent of blood
real bay
true
marble hemlock
but it highlights an issue i had a gripe with for a while now
needting a lethal poison for VW to proc just sucks
either due to immunity, or because DP runs out and theres no good way of refreshing it, or because you just didnt get lucky
bleak spoke
also in m+ pack situations where you can actually apply poisons easily to all VW targets with FOK you always play like they're all poisoned anyway and if you run into some insane unluck and get energy negative then it's just fkn annoying
marble hemlock
yup
was about to say that
opening with triple garrote, rupture fok and none or only 1 of the targets gets DP applied
just stinks
and fucks up your aoe opener
bleak spoke
you're so starved yeh
marble hemlock
its the only mechanic left in the game thats as core and still a % chance
yup
just nerf dp instant damage, make the proc-chance 100% and give envenom the antorus set-bonus treatment
as in, during envenom your poisons have higher crit-chance
basically keep the damage the same
but make it more consistent
would be a nice QoL
bleak spoke
i'm trying to think of mecahnics like that
spice surge
Well that would just fix half the problem seli
Just make VW give energy regardless of poisons or not
Because it would still be annoying trying to multidot on conclave for example
marble hemlock
i mean obviously that would be even better, yes
just bake it into the ability itself
real bay
or make rupture/ garrote refresh DP if both on target. To make it last at least same time so you don't lose on regen
marble hemlock
although i dont mind teh upkeep part of that type of gameplay
the conclave issue is mostly due to the difference in rupture and deadly poison duration
since you need a pandemic duration DP to cover the entirety of a 5cp rupture
spice surge
Its even more pronounced in pvp
bleak spoke
having to throw a knife actually feels like you're griefing when u do it
spice surge
Since wound only lasts 8 seconds
marble hemlock
and yes eleem, was about to say
having your poisons dispelled hurts so fucking hard as assa
pure of heart anyone
spice surge
pure of heart is removed, but yeah
bleak spoke
ah i'm assuming that's why e regen feels like absolute shit in pvp then
marble hemlock
well yeah, but it highlighted that problem
we didnt just lose the damage of the poison, but all our resource generation
bleak spoke
i was wondering if that was some effect of ilevel scaling or whatever
but that makes a lot more sense
spice surge
Idk it was sorta fine when we could use deadly since deadly lasts like 15
Whereas wound only lasts 8 always
bleak spoke
wish they didn't remove deadly brew
marble hemlock
i wouldnt be opposed to having rupture and garrote just generate a base amount of energy per tick
real bay
indeed
bleak spoke
then they could add an energy regen component to scent of blood and it might be viable to have one :^)
marble hemlock
to be perfectly honest, i dont particularly like the duality of assa these days, it always seems to be in an identity crisis of whether it wants to be a bleed or a poison spec
bleak spoke
yeh idk i want to play exsang but the more i play it the more depleted it feels
zinc zephyr
since we cant be both 😦
marble hemlock
for the longest time assa was about poisons
they just shoehorned in the bleeds with legion
yeah exactly staz, its not like we are kind of utilizing both
its usually one or the other
bleak spoke
i mean are there even like any cool thngs with bleeds
other than exsang itself being kinda cool
zinc zephyr
good old times, 200% mastery poison build
marble hemlock
and despite all the changes to bleeds, like scaling with haste or having mastery apply its bonuses to bleeds as well
bleak spoke
it seems so basic
marble hemlock
it didnt even last one tier and we're back to poison builds
bleeds are just a means to an end by generating resources, not the main-deal of the spec
bleak spoke
when's Absolute Rupture talent :^)
marble hemlock
but theyre trying very hard to make us scale the bleed damage itself, but eventualy it always falls short :/
wouldnt be surprised if master poisoner makes a comeback at the end of the tier or next one
when we get higher and higher mastery again
spice surge
Idk they havent given us any proper bleed traits for sustained, since ss is only burst
bleak spoke
master poisoner's already simming close for me
spice surge
No traits affecting rupture is really wierd
bleak spoke
but i have very mastery
marble hemlock
well, you could argue that bleeds are for aoe by multidotting and using crimson tempest, wheras poison is more st oriented with PB, TB etc.
bleak spoke
i like crimson tempest alot
zinc zephyr
how useable poison build is in m+?
marble hemlock
im playing one right now
spice surge
just give me ttk for rupture so i can blast nighstalker+exsang 
bleak spoke
it's just now even on huge packs nad reaping your pbomb build with the ttk seems so muchbetter
marble hemlock
feels very subrogue-esque
marble hemlock
with a bigger focus on priority target damage than aoe
inner pecan
DD is not viable in m+ which is the "standard" poison build
marble hemlock
while still doing good aoe, obviously
inner pecan
but there's a EB/TTK build that I think Seli is talking about
marble hemlock
ye
marble hemlock
ttk with TB for good prio on basically every pull, while running high crit to generate CP akin to a subrogue
EB carries aoe anyway
but 80k envenoms feel gud ❤
bleak spoke
I need to get the stormwall? Azerite with the ttk and eb
real bay
Rasta shoulders had EB ttk right
real bay
think i got them last night
bleak spoke
Not scale to aoe*?
spice surge
Rasta has the eb+ttk shoulders
inner pecan
haste is pretty garbo on aoe
marble hemlock
at the end of the day the m+ build always depends a bit more on the group composition than anything else
inner pecan
on engi helm
marble hemlock
yeah
the agi proc is nice
but the haste one is just not useful at all
id rather just have another eb+ttk
so i can run 3eb 2ttk 1ss
bleak spoke
That’s big dam
hushed maple
Guys which cells do I open as a rogue in Tol Dagor?
bleak spoke
All of them
bleak spoke
With the guys in them
marble hemlock
and since someone else mentioned it, the problem with scent of blood is that it provides agility, whereas every single other spec-specific trait does not scale with agility since they all increase the base-damage after AP scaling
spice surge
You can opener every room without having your group pulling the mobs near
bleak spoke
Except the one with the threepack unless you’re willing to vanish
spice surge
And without you pulling the mobs inside
marble hemlock
so agi just falls behind secondary stats in general
spice surge
No you can always open the doors
marble hemlock
you open the 4 cages that have horde-member inside
1 tauren, 1orc, 1forsaken, 1belf
bleak spoke
Oh yeah from the other side of the wall I guess
spice surge
Yeah, but you can open all of them solo regardless of where they are
Is what i meant
marble hemlock
if you make sure you are line of sight of the mob inside the cage, you dont pull any additional mobs
bleak spoke
Usually I cba that one unless I have sap blind cheapshot vanish or something lol
marble hemlock
you can open 7/8 cages without any assistance of the group, the only one that sucks is the one on the left side, furthest left, which has 3 mobs in front of it
marble hemlock
for that one you need to open the big gate next to them
spice surge
marble hemlock
and then open it through the wall basically
while sapping one of the looters thats still hanging out there
bleak spoke
Or you can sap blind two of them
marble hemlock
well yeah
bleak spoke
And cheapshot the other one
bleak spoke
But gotta have vanish
marble hemlock
well
bleak spoke
Compared to sub and outlaw
hushed maple
vanish is a DPS cooldown for any specc
marble hemlock
its the same as back when tricks of the trade was a dps cooldown
and we even had setbonuses improving it
spice surge
Tbh i feel the opposite, i like it being a dps cooldown
smoky fiber
its barely a dps cd for outlaw
marble hemlock
id prefer vanish to not be a dps CD at all
i miss the vanilla/tbc times
of never dying on a bossfight
idle ember
Sitting here with 3 400 pieces im moderately content with (DDx2 + SSx1) with the ability to buy a random 415 piece and thinking I might just save it. If me playing Outlaw is any indication of luck... rolling the dice won't be a positive outcome.
marble hemlock
cause you could always vanish when the group was wiping
bleak spoke
I like that it is in a way that makes it fun to plan around it for dungeons but also hate that it fks with utility
smoky fiber
i heard someone say
marble hemlock
feign death isnt a dps cd
neither is invis
why do i have to choose between doing more dps or being able to do a skip
and others dont 😦
vast forum
Yeah because those classes don't have infinite stealth and damage bonus from stealth
bleak spoke
tbf vanish is significantly stronger
marble hemlock
in a dungeon setting, both are better suited for skipping mobs than vanish
vast forum
I agree tho that they should break vanish dps component somehow
bleak spoke
fair
marble hemlock
because stealth detect is a thing
and neither feign death nor invis are affected by it :x
vast forum
Invis is
bleak spoke
shoutouts of being dead for a minute straight cuz ppl facepull after the elemental skip in shrine :^)
vast forum
You can't invis through stealth detect mobs
marble hemlock
not sure exactly how invis works nowadays
i remember doing some invis skips that i couldnt do as rogue in legion
marble hemlock
i think it was the fact that invis pots and invis spell work differently or smth
bleak spoke
there's some weird interactions with LOS as well
marble hemlock
anyway
i dont like utility abilities having a dps component
its like momentum as a DH
marble hemlock
sure, its a dps boost, but do you really want to have to sacrifice all your mobility for a dps boost?
bleak spoke
something like shadow dance probably
marble hemlock
have vanish not put you in stealth
bleak spoke
i mean subtlety does deal with that problem kinda elegantly
wait but then wat would it do
vast forum
How would that even work?
marble hemlock
but not a stealth-function that allows you to use abilities thatcan only be used from stealth
marble hemlock
well yeah, ive mostly been looking at it from a raid-encounter perspective
bleak spoke
yeah was gonna say wouldn't that be shadowmeld basically
light narwhal
make it so that when you vanish you drop on the floor and pretend to be dead 
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
marble hemlock
but on singletarget? i dont particularly like it
vast forum
Ehm
bleak spoke
to be fair i do like that on aoe vanish is a really cool extension of the rotation yeh
vast forum
That can be arranged
bleak spoke
but on ST it kinda just chugs along
vast forum
Actually nvm
marble hemlock
even if subterfuge only provided 10% gain
bleak spoke
cuz of how it lines
vast forum
Remove ma
bleak spoke
yeh
vast forum
Remove that tier of talents
marble hemlock
just make it like shadowmeld
bleak spoke
make all those talents baseline :^)
vast forum
Or just make it so garrote doesn't do extra dmg, but you can cast 3 of em from stealth
bleak spoke
but then that feels lame
bleak spoke
eh, unless you remove SS that's still hyper efficient combo point gen until we have god crit
bleak spoke
at the end of the day it's annoying that vanish being such a strong cd cuts into utility but it's not necessarily a bad quirk
marble hemlock
vanish should just disarm/silence you
until you break it
there, fixed
cant use it for dps anymore, only for resetting combat :<
bleak spoke
on the other hand it's such a large part of the spec in m+ now and such an interesting part i'd hate to see it go that way
feels almost like the whole control aspect of the spec is based around being able to bail ppl out with the bag of tricks and vanish is the biggest trick and that's kinda cool
@marble hemlock when stream btw
marble hemlock
later tonight when raid starts
vast forum
Tbh the disarm/silence idea would completely break vanish in pvp
zinc zephyr
switched 1 SS for 1 EB. guess i'll need some crit gems
fair blaze
I'm curious, did you use Dungeon Slice or 6t 40s?
zinc zephyr
slice
fair blaze
K thanks
bleak spoke
huh do you have like 0% versa
zinc zephyr
close, i have 2,26% 😂
royal lantern
from the 4x mythic weekly ❤
buoyant coyote
https://gyazo.com/7d410b31e476b5fcf5d1c77f91bef72b would this be better then 385 galecaller due to its hard utilize it in m proggress
buoyant coyote
It sims lower but if u miss 1 galecaller use rip dps
shy axle
if you use Subterfuge and no SS traits - what do to when vanish comes off cd? still Gar-Rup-Gar or just one gar and proceed with normal rota?
tranquil notch
got 420 azerokk, which is actually similar to my 385 trinkets
buoyant coyote
Essentially u just not using a trinket
tranquil notch
that trinket is very bad
inner pecan
depends on the fight i suppose
buoyant coyote
Yepp
inner pecan
but gcb isn't that hard to play
as long as you don't mindlessly bash it on cd
you can delay 5-10s if you're not gonna have uptime
buoyant coyote
Depend what grp u playinv with tbh some pugs move the boss like its a dancing comp
flat jackal
[Kimbul's Razor Claw] good?
flat jackal
got it in the weekly quest
buoyant coyote
I got an 400 ilvl one
buoyant coyote
Bis boi
inner pecan
very strong for ST
especially with how easy it is to snag a high ilvl one
a lot of m+ trinkets are arguably better at equal ilvl though - dice, spyglass, gcb, plumage
ornate meteor
hii question for opulence ruby or opal for assa?
spice surge
Opal does more damage, but somebody in the raid needs to take ruby
ornate meteor
alright got it!
wild edge
Do i use 'Lustrous Golden Plumage' (2min cd) everytime with vendetta ?
cerulean walrus
Why not sync it up? Most sin CDs line up perfectly
wild edge
ok nice thanks ^^
obsidian girder
can i see in the logs how much energy the rogues have as they used TB ?
languid ore
Struggling a little on King fight as MA TB sin. Everyone's doing massive burst on cleave and I'm just sitting here slapping one add and putting shitty bleeds on others
Any tips or should I swap to ss for that
spice surge
🤷
Doesnt really matter what you do tbh
As soon as your ranged complete downstairs without dying or killing the entire raid
You've won
languid ore
🤔
inner pecan
ye
spice surge
You can literally kill the boss with 5 people in p4
royal pebble
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
inner pecan
last phase is literally heroic
languid ore
They have me going down
inner pecan
yikes
cerulean walrus
What for?
languid ore
😞
cerulean walrus
Lack of ranged?
dapper moat
?
lime cypress
one liners
are the best way
to communicate
guys
spice surge
Rogue isnt bad to go down if you dont have too many ranged
inner pecan
rogue is prob best actually
spice surge
But you should def have prio on ranged going down
languid ore
I guess bottom was too hard for people
dapper moat
I like to go down! 🤗
languid ore
It's too hard for some ranged
They don't realize you can stand next to portal
And be ok
cerulean walrus
🤔
inner pecan
so they dont understand the core strategy of the boss
spice surge
Sounds like you guys havent been building the pillow fortress with portals
Like you should be
languid ore
Lol
cerulean walrus
tfw I'm probably also gonna get sent down because of a lack of ranged PepeHands
languid ore
My raid is 80% ranged. No melee love
cerulean walrus
Literally what? Trade ya right now.
languid ore
Me a dh and an arms warrior
spice surge
Rastakhan with many melees is aids
languid ore
A buff warrior
real bay
in our raid ranged ppl manage to spread it on melee lmao
languid ore
Lol same
cerulean walrus
Pepega
real bay
very
cerulean walrus
How are people that obliviou- right this is WoW
real bay
that's not all
the fire beam that targets ppl , some dood just stood under boss and melee group with it
this is normal
cerulean walrus
My raid team actually had some trouble with Heroic Opulence back when we were first doing prog. Damn meme laser in the middle of the room
ANd I got sent left side because one of our warlocks couldn't understand how to move out
rigid mango
I mean I was doing hc masters yesteday
We wiped for 3hrs straight because people are keyboard turning stirke
cerulean walrus
LOL
real bay
killed it with my worst pull , like always , lost my nerves when ppl fuc around like that
languid ore
I think we 2 shot opulence. Struggled on conclave tho
rigid mango
I'm doing 3x our bm hunters dps each pull
languid ore
😔
rigid mango
He does less dmg than our bear
cerulean walrus
Yikes.
cerulean walrus
tfw sin rogues bench his DPS like its a day at the gym
sacred vine
Guys What enchanting of dagger i need?
cerulean walrus
Quick and Deady nav
rigid mango
And it'll say
winter moss
your highest simming secondary stats
cerulean walrus
Sometimes Masterful
winter moss
congrats
rigid mango
ngl came a bit
winter moss
more private details to share?
rigid mango
Crit haste
cerulean walrus
I got a 410 crit/haste belt
rigid mango
Got me on new lvls
cerulean walrus
and Mekkatorque's from the weekly event cache (Hell yeah bruther)
rigid mango
The trink or?
cerulean walrus
The chest
rigid mango
That shit's neat
lone junco
apparently it makes buzzing sounds. our hunter was pissed about 30sec in
cerulean walrus
How long does a full cycle last?
rigid mango
Try to get a high tier GCB
cerulean walrus
Like the oscillation
rigid mango
Cycles every 32 sec
cerulean walrus
Oh that's total ass. Doesn't line up with anything reeee
languid ore
Rolled shoulders from vendor and got a shitty one. Rolling with two nothing personal trait
Feelsterribleman
rigid mango
1x NP Pog 2x NP FeelsBadMan
cerulean walrus
2 NP isn't the worst you could have
languid ore
Energy Regen capped at 40 right
cerulean walrus
Yes
languid ore
Yikes
cerulean walrus
Just the damage increases
rigid mango
Yah
cerulean walrus
If it wasn't capped oh lord 
rigid mango
It's nutty as a 1 of
languid ore
I simmed the shit out of all my gear. That's the best combination
cerulean walrus
Yep. I mean 2 NP is only putting me like 10 sim dps under what I run currently
lone junco
when your gronk is less than 2 mins. shit gets weird.
rigid mango
!azerite
cerulean walrus
Which is 3 DD 2 TC 1 NP
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
rigid mango
idk if it's bugged or smth but it shouldn't
languid ore
3 DD 2 TC wow
languid ore
cerulean walrus
Its MEEEGA
rigid mango
I really just want 3x DD and then 1x NP TC SS
As that's my pref set up
Rocking 3x EB for m+ though
Them reaping packs
cerulean walrus
I just embrace the outlul for M+
rigid mango
I pref the playstyle of sin
heavy skiff
Hey 1 q, do u pool energy before using tb so u can get more envenoms in that window?
cerulean walrus
I do too
cerulean walrus
I don't like the RNG, but 70k on reaping packs doesn't lie
cerulean walrus
I press like 1 button and do 70k lul
rigid mango
Spam FoK after applying dots and off you go
heavy skiff
What would the perfect number be?
rigid mango
i believe the guid says 80%?
I normally pool enough where I feel comfy with my amount of haste to get 3x env
cerulean walrus
Just pop thistle tea 4head
heavy skiff
How much energy do i need 4 when tb comes of cd?
rigid mango
"i believe the guid says 80%?"
I can't remember
You get a feel for it when you play
cerulean walrus
Honestly, whatever feels good
rigid mango
How much you need with your amount of haste
cerulean walrus
Exactly