assassination

[fringe narwhal]

eh

[bronze summit]

Oops sorry wrong window

[lethal heart]

they should make them scale only with levle

level

but who at blizzard would afford to use brain

[bronze summit]

But to answer that.. they were NOT droping sanguine in ptr

[spice surge]

They were not

[lethal heart]

thats most likely unintended

if they were

ok

i see

the eidt

[bronze summit]

@spice surge corrected

[spice surge]

Ah

[bronze summit]

:(

[spice surge]

I'd assume the reaping mobs scale of their base health (ie not affected by bolstering)

But its possible they screw up and its not

[civic palm]

youWouldThink

[hollow stone]

I hope reaping spawn explosive

Thatd make my day

[bronze summit]

I think iya safe to say they wont bolster and not affected by afixs in general.. but hey.. in ptr the fucking canons from.tol dgor were becoming reapies so.. who the hell knows at this point

Also.. fuck my spelling on mobile

[rose perch]

On ptr they weren't bolstering but they were spawning with more health from bolstered corpses - my guess is that this makes it to live for a day or two

[royal lantern]

bro, like, you dont want a blood dk at the moment lol?

blood dk is the best tank by far, its stupid at this point

[civic palm]

This point? It was stupid 6 months into Legion > _>

[hollow stone]

Make ursol's a mass grip. #bringbackbears

[royal lantern]

well

we made a great switch

from dk/druid too dk/monk

nah, fk druids

[hollow stone]

Dh is pretty good for a lot of the affixes

Not arguing that dk is king tho

[royal lantern]

wannabe ´´ i want too be good in everything!!!1111!!!!!´´class can rot in hell

[hollow stone]

I wanna be good at everything. Thats why i main rogue

[vestal wren]

you should reroll dh

[hollow stone]

Blasphemy!

[royal lantern]

commone, dont overreact, dh only has: best mobility ingame, best sustain of all dps classes, best deff cd's, 1min cc usable on almost everything on range with a low cd, 1 of the best offensive cd's ingame with metamorph, 1 of the best/the best burst aoe, good single target dps, ranged interupt(2 if you play horde cus of belf)

the need a CR and shroud imo, not enough

[ripe nimbus]

Bolstering does affect the reaping adds same with fortified.

[vestal wren]

wl also seems a good choice for your proposal

[royal lantern]

oh shit, i forgot the dh only raid debuff

[civic palm]

No double dipping please and thanks.

[ripe nimbus]

They arnt zombies they are ghosts

[vestal wren]

bwonzombies, what a name

[royal lantern]

bwonghosties?

[coarse tusk]

Maybe bolster adds health are factored in the 50%

[ripe nimbus]

If u kill an add that is bolstered the add spawns with 50% of the bolstered health so yes bolstering affects reaping

[civic palm]

https://tenor.com/view/inauguration-cnn2017-donald-trump-finger-wag-no-gif-7576946

[royal lantern]

sooo...they have 50%of the health the add had when it died? you confuse me now

[ripe nimbus]

Yes

Fortified bolster weeks gonna be fun

[royal lantern]

eh, atleast you can just pull now, and need less hard cc

[spice surge]

Yes, 50% of the max hp they had when they died with if dratnos is to trust

And hes a fine fella, so we're good

[ripe nimbus]

It was stated so in some M+QnA so no reason not to trust?

[royal lantern]

im lucky that you NA people can test it 1 day before me

[civic palm]

Welcome > ,<

butAtTheSameTimeWeGetTheFunShitBeforeItsNerfedSometimes

Yeah, for the few hours that was dumb.

NA: WHY IS THIS A THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING?!

[royal lantern]

you mean those couple of hours where you ALMOST had dh like aoe burst?

almost

[civic palm]

If we ever got something that seemed like burst AoE but sustained there'd be an issue > _>

[spice surge]

There's a way to get DH burst aoe though 😉

But not as assa

Just do high enough keys where everything will be sustained damage instead of burst and you're good 👌

[civic palm]

Bingo, only things hard enough that sustained is the only option.

[haughty flame]

u reacon rogues are gna get rekt in m+ when they bring in more mobs with true sight?

[civic palm]

Nope.

[glass drift]

So are u lads going ss and scent or ss and eb for m+?

[vast forum]

whatever drops 🤷

[glass drift]

like in a perfect world if u could choose i mean..

[ripe nimbus]

What ever drops

The world aint perfect

[hollow stone]

Because i wont be pushing huge keys, in my ideal world, 3ss 3eb. But i would imagine sob will get higher value on high keys. "Whatever drops" is def the answer tho :p

[vestal wren]

lazy me

[civic palm]

woo

[karmic ingot]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2ATLkfa

[karmic ingot]

That was anticlimactic.

[north star]

guys during mythic vectis do you use rupture with less than 4 CP on the add? I feel like the add doens't live enough for 4 CP to be worth it right?

[slender sedge]

it depends on your raid, why not just check logs

[nimble tartan]

Good morning beautifuls

[north star]

what im asking is, is it worth it to rupture with 4-5CP knowning that part of the dot wont tick cause he dies for the energy refund, or should i just use it at 2-3 CP wich is how long the add lasts

[spice surge]

It doesnt really matter is the answer

[stray cosmos]

Yeah 2-3 Cp is fine if that's how long the add lives. You don't get more damage from more combo points, just a longerduration

[sturdy python]

Yeah, thats a question where theres probably not a concrete answer

[stray cosmos]

Unless youre exsang'ing it

[north star]

nah im using TB

[nimble tartan]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2ATLkfa

[glossy ocean]

Hey guys, when is crimson tempest worth in m+?

[sturdy python]

!ct

[prisma monolith]

There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.

[sturdy python]

WHen theres lots of mobs essentially

[weary merlin]

So exsang SS is the best to run for maxing my damage now?

[vestal wren]

worth mentioning is that one of the big reasons for exsang to be that popular is that is snapshots haste value what works very good in combination with f.ex. gc

[sturdy python]

Its very good in dungeons, kimjong. Traits can depend on the situation though

[vast forum]

gimme that phat 425 GCB 1st run next week so i can be set for the next 6 months

[weary merlin]

Yeah didn’t know if it was max damage vs single target but hero damage shows it topping everything from single target through aoe

[sturdy python]

Exsang or SS

Make sure youre looking at "stack" for traits

[weary merlin]

SS with exsang

[sturdy python]

The first SS is a lot stronger than the 2nd or 3rd for ST

[weary merlin]

Oh snap yeah I was not looking at stacking

[sturdy python]

DD, TC and NP are essentially our best ST traits but anything with multi target will obviously lend itself to SS a bit more. Big AoE situations value EB and SoB a lot also. Sin has a lot of good traits for all sorts of situations

[rose sapphire]

What traits do we want for ST in next raid with the 5 rings?

Alright

Is there any site where I can check what bosses we should bonusroll/bis gear for assa

[trail cypress]

https://gdoc.pub/doc/e/2PACX-1vRvQLpvKGOajqSUD3G9shuXxagN1EXx6dakyfGqGMeNH57CYD3ia7lnpXjOHApMAGQWetveX4M3IOAU

[slate jacinth]

Has there been made a "BiS" list based on the Dazar'alor drops yet?

[spice surge]

#announcements

[vestal wren]

wait we had a announcment for that?

[civic palm]

Not that I recall.

[solid nova]

Its in #announcements and

#rules-and-guides

Don announced it on 21st Dec.

[civic palm]

Yeah but those aren't BiS lists.

Just lists.

At least mine was.

[solid nova]

Ah I thought you were referencing the spreadsheet in general

[warm void]

@rose sapphire try the raidbots “droptimizer”

[solid nova]

BiS lists when TF/WF exists

[warm void]

It will give you a list of bosses to prioritize bonus rolls

[lusty compass]

i'm only curious about BiS azerite but raidbots requires premium for that =/

[forest marsh]

$3/month is not much

[spice sorrel]

Is droptimizer working properly? Saw it was still in beta and haven't gotten to try it

[civic palm]

No idea.

[vestal wren]

its a nice tool tbh esp. if you want to know what piece will give you the biggest upgrade in the first week

[civic palm]

Yeah it is, knowing where to roll is the key point of that tool atm.

aka

get weapons

[vestal wren]

isnt pvp for weapons 😛

[civic palm]

_> could be

[nimble tartan]

god first week gonna be aids

gotta grind m+ for BIS TRINKETS at 385 and grind to 2100 😦

[vestal wren]

but there is no rush

the raid will last for a while

[nimble tartan]

yeah thats true, i def didnt do that for uldir and it was fine but its such a decent boost

[spice surge]

No point grinding +6 next week

When you can get 400 ilvl the week after

2.1k is weekly though sooo, getting that is higher prio

[brisk frost]

has some1 compared dungeon azerite pieces compared to bod ones?

is there anything huge?

ignore my typos lol

[dark crag]

playing arena for top pve items, what year is it?

[civic palm]

2008 or so

[verbal arch]

whats sin looking like in your opinions for the new raid?

[spice sorrel]

Solid

[deft tulip]

Do we have an updated pin with info on BIS traits for m+ next patch ?

[brisk frost]

I saw conversation about m0 azerite pieces. was it right that 370 5 ring pieces sim "much" higher than uldin 4ring 390 ones?

so is it worth for me to do m0 world tour on wednesday

[mental obsidian]

hey

whats the name of this WA

https://gyazo.com/bd1fa99e5eaede7fde98c60af1fea865

[hollow stone]

@brisk frost yes

[meager nebula]

Dungeon cc tracker or something similar I think

[pine badger]

does cloaks/evasion/feint work on sand queen upheaval on tol dagor?

[meager nebula]

Cloak does for sure

[hollow stone]

Idk if cloak works for the upheaval but you can def clear those pesky stun sandtraps with cloak. Feint does for for it

[meager nebula]

Feint would aswell id imagine

I don’t think evasion protects you from aoe?

[pine badger]

no but some abilities are weird

like the 3rd boss freehold whirlwind

[hollow stone]

Yea, i doubt evas works

[meager nebula]

Also depends whether the boss hit counts as being in front of you or behind

Since players can’t dodge attacks from behind

[brittle idol]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2ATLkfa

[spice sorrel]

You can evasion the whirlwind? TIL

[sturdy python]

Can you? Coulda swore Ive tried before

[jagged gazelle]

May be a stupid question but when do you pop the trinket that you get from arathi highlands boss as assa rogue? on start or?

[hollow stone]

It was updated somewhat recently. You can evasion shark boss ww ability

[vestal wren]

good to know

[hollow stone]

@jagged gazelle with vend

[jagged gazelle]

can you macro it?

[hollow stone]

Yup

[jagged gazelle]

cool

[strange python]

hey guys i have a question. With the upcoming raid will dd or ss be superior mainly for the raid, since most of the encounters are aoe/cleave fights. Will dd will be still decent since is the superior on pure st or ss will pull ahead for progression

[vestal wren]

well ss will be better for the cleave ones, dd will be better for the st ones

[civic palm]

1 SS will probably find usages, even on ST.

[vestal wren]

depends iirc sims where 2x dd, 1x np, 3x TC

but for progression you likely wont have all raid pieces so ss is def. an option

[civic palm]

3x TC > _>

[vestal wren]

ye that was from mystlers sim

[civic palm]

Oh I believe it.

[main bison]

I don't think TC should be simmed for progression

[civic palm]

It's fine, IMO.

[strange python]

i was thinking about the same combination

[vestal wren]

^ there where quite a lot of ppl mentioning that droping below the treshhold is very uncommon

[civic palm]

Cowl is also DD or SS so you've the option there.

[lone junco]

lazy mode inc.

[vestal wren]

so even tho it sounds terrible for progression it might not

i like that new feature

[lone junco]

i like that it shows me what is available. easily.

[civic palm]

yeahizgood

Good listing, good reporting.

[lone junco]

and how far down the boss order is

the actual output is meh. due to web only and weekly . but its def nice.

[civic palm]

It's simple.

Which is important for most people.

[vestal wren]

the head might be a hot pice unless ppl will use the engineering one

[civic palm]

Yeah

[vestal wren]

its good as you can slowly approximate your gear progression with it

its not saied to find the best choices but def. should be optimal enough

[civic palm]

Yeah even as a bit of a short-term plan it's helpful.

[lone junco]

this made me lol though. current heroic gear vs all available heroic gear.

raid out tomorrow?

or next week

[vestal wren]

morrow

[lone junco]

barf

[civic palm]

ha

SURPRISE!!

[lone junco]

sin is fine, a bit under sub but me.
neck level isnt that bad for heroic needs. mythic want 38
lots of bosses.

anything i miss?

[civic palm]

Shit ton of AA drops now.

That's about it.

more soaking cheese

[lone junco]

at least the zone entrance is easy to get to.

[civic palm]

Is it?

[lone junco]

dont have to jump in a hole or anything

ran by a golem. wee

[civic palm]

eeeeeeeezpz

[lone junco]

i saw 2x ss/sob

so that will be nice.

[civic palm]

Yep

[lone junco]

Jaina tho. but will be fine for M+

can the new Azerite 370 from wq get melted in the thing?

i wont be grinding a lot for a "perfect piece" so whatever.

[nimble tartan]

i love treacherous i wish the damage taken stacked im sick in the head

[civic palm]

lol

[lone junco]

bonus damage with extra damage taken?

[nimble tartan]

hell YEAH

[lone junco]

tbh, I never die first. so fine by me. maybe not in m+

[civic palm]

+150% bonus damage taken

[nimble tartan]

thats the real gameplay right there

[civic palm]

MAKE CHEAT DEATH EARN IT!!

[nimble tartan]

no cheat elusiveness gameplay

im not running cheat this tier

catch me never dippin below 20 with elusiveness

[civic palm]

Just Leeching Poison 4head

https://tenor.com/view/drcox-scrubs-head-gif-4862594

[nimble tartan]

im not running a single ss this whole next tier

[civic palm]

oooooooshit

[lone junco]

@nimble tartan tell me your feels

[nimble tartan]

hear me out ok...

[vestal wren]

bota 2.0 does not need ss

[lone junco]

https://tenor.com/view/listen-it-crowd-gif-5598174

[nimble tartan]

add comes out alright prio add i fuckin WHOOP its ass with my ST build boohoo i lose boss damage a lil but i BOP ON THAT ADD

ss is a PAD TALENT

when u really need that GOOD GOOD dd will get u there...

[lone junco]

what is bota 2.0

[vestal wren]

the fight the other boss get full hp if you kill one

[nimble tartan]

no fight needs ss

trust me

[lone junco]

@nimble tartan do you believe in the 3 DD/2TWIST with and 1vend?

[civic palm]

"needs"

[nimble tartan]

no im 2 dd 1 np 3 TREACHEROUS

[lone junco]

is trech row3?

[vestal wren]

do ppl go with eng. head?

TC is t1 or t2

[nimble tartan]

if u get unlucky yeah engi head gonna be good

just straight up for the ring

imagine vanish ss'ing when the add pops up and padding your tiny baby garrote damage

OR

[lone junco]

450 agi buff.

mad man.

Ill take it.

[nimble tartan]

IMAGINE the add comes up and it quivers when it sees u vanish and gets WHOPPED by 3 CRIT ENVENOMS AND DOUBLE DOSE

[lone junco]

bro, Im with you Never liked the vanish gg in raid. it is m+ gold.

but.

knife throw is gone right

[nimble tartan]

ye

i used shuriken toss for a long ass time was p good

the trait

[lone junco]

I liked it for hot swap only

add? PEW done

[nimble tartan]

VANISH FULL STACK TOSS

[hollow stone]

I want 1 ss, 2 or 3 dd, 2 or 3 tc, 1 np for st. likely not ideal but dat qol of 1 ss so nom

[vestal wren]

SP was the most hated trait in the game

but its the only one that changes your rotation more or less

[lone junco]

the slice stack is still wonky

[vestal wren]

whats wonky?

[lone junco]

just the ability to actually tab out the ruptures and get up 4-7 scent. in real pulls. where the slice life span is way low.

idk really though.

just think in a real pull that lasts a while the scent would be top 3.

[nimble tartan]

are there any shrouded scent pieces

i know there are shrouded eb pieces

[lone junco]

2

there are 2 from raid that are garrote/rupture

[nimble tartan]

im prob not playin sin in m+ as much this tier though

[lone junco]

which sill be my go2

[hollow stone]

For sure. In longer and big pulls, sob > ss

[nimble tartan]

big on sub/outlaw rn

[lone junco]

meh.

[vestal wren]

you go all in oulaw m+?

[lone junco]

my WA died so I dropped outlaw

[vestal wren]

what weakaura?

[lone junco]

the one i used from Legion.

cba to remake.

[hollow stone]

Running w a dh and a fmage. Do i really need to go outlaw? I think not

[lone junco]

i hate all the kits. and the output isnt much higher.

[nimble tartan]

i think sin gonna not be as hot on most dungeons

outlaw gonna be really good and sub gonna be the hotness

[vestal wren]

https://wago.io/ZvGiZ6RDY
this group is rly good.
and this one for the BF target count:
https://wago.io/NyFFoF1mQ

[hollow stone]

Sub in 2019. Keks

[lone junco]

work is busy, im good enough to barely play sin in raids

[nimble tartan]

season 2 is the season of SUB

[lone junco]

the vids of the 10 Trait looks monster

[vestal wren]

i am not so sure omr

[lone junco]

gigas all over the place

[safe canopy]

i hope sub takes over so i can stop playing feral druid rogue

[vestal wren]

i think sub is a lot better in s2 tho i dont know if it will be the dominant spec

[nimble tartan]

no infestd sub god tier again

[lone junco]

zombie swarms seem like outlaw gold tho

[nimble tartan]

yeah thats gonna be nice but pace of play could hinder outlaw

with flurry charges

[lone junco]

what change?

[nimble tartan]

if u go FAST

[lone junco]

idc nvm

2garrote 2scent 2eb, line it up.

lazy play, fine by me.

[vestal wren]

3x ss 3x eb for max padding potential

[hollow stone]

Idc what ends up being best. Im just happy we dont have to worry about cc for an entire season 😬

[nimble tartan]

u can cheese this season affix pretty hard as well

unless they fix it

[lone junco]

I saw that you can kill bosses first then wrap for % and skip a round.

[nimble tartan]

ye if u have a dk cntrol a mob u can skip the wave by killin it right after boss or something like that

itll save mucho time

[lone junco]

so will monster aoe be god. moonkin/dh/+ repeat?

i should probably think a bit tonight. it is a good time to /quit.

[pale agate]

infested was such an anti-fun affix

esp with bolstering

they should just go all-in on designing for huge pulls, instead of trying to force weeks of slowing down so that specs with bad aoe can feel a bit better about themselves

[sturdy python]

The whole point of affixes is to make it harder and slow us down

[pale agate]

they already achieve that with tyr/fort which slow you down, but those affixes dont force pulling small packs as strongly as some affixes do

[livid tide]

is it worth to track the envenom buff via WA?

[pale agate]

i track it so that I can delay envenom if i already have one up and dont need to burn combo pts right away

although i've heard that doing so doesn't really make that big of a difference

[hollow stone]

More info is better but no, its not really worth to track it since env uptime is the least of your concern. You dont want to clip ep, clipping env is not the end of the world

I still track it

[livid tide]

thank you! helped me a lot 😃

[hollow stone]

Tldr, track ep, not env if its a "one or the other" situation

[lament vale]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2ATLkfa

[nimble tartan]

Infested was the most toxic thing in bfa

[unborn mist]

infested + bolstering weeks in pugs have always been fun

You see some questionable pulls with pugs on your alts. x.x

[hazy skiff]

anybody know if the emissary reward will scale tomorrow?

[unborn mist]

iirc blizz said the rewards "might" reroll

[hazy skiff]

lol...

[low bramble]

is it going to be worth keeping a piece of Archive just for the stat bonus, or swap it out right away for a SS/DD piece?

[hollow stone]

Emissary rewards WILL update tomorrow (for na). But the type of reward might change. So if it shows getting azerite today, tomorrow it could still give azerite but it may give gold instead, for example

From a minmax perspective, it will be better to save your turn ins for tomorrow

(Again, for na) tho same applies for eu just a day later

[nimble tartan]

I opened all my paragon caches yesterday

I had 12 saved up

[hollow stone]

Rookie mistake. Reported

[strange lichen]

do we a BiS list from BoD? or trinket sims?

[hollow stone]

Keep waiting

[nimble tartan]

I needed to open them i couldnt wait any longer

[bronze kelp]

try the droptimizer: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer

[strange lichen]

thanks! @bronze kelp

[bronze kelp]

but the droptimizer is beta state and start just today 😃 but works fine as far as i can see

[strange python]

That's a nice tool

[vital haven]

which azerite pieces should we be targetting on m0 tomorrow?

im thinking double dose with SS no?

[sturdy python]

#announcements Has a list

[peak musk]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[dusty wigeon]

Blood sausage or main secondary stat?

[buoyant flicker]

we thinking assa is go to prog spec for next tier?

[lone junco]

website. you content creator now?

[sturdy python]

Its a secret still

[lone junco]

I just watched that 3:30 island clear. I was clearly doing them wrong. No cool demolisher.

[fluid mist]

Any elvui profile recommendations?

[lone junco]

<default>

not elvui. but the actual default ui.

[fluid mist]

I actually do not mind The default ui. But The problem is somehow all The addons i have had over The years even tho they are disabled now fuck up my default ui for example i had a nameplate addon called plater and when i disable it and not use elvui my nameplates for enemy npc’s are all weird so i just run elvui :p

[sturdy python]

Is it demo or the nuke?

[unborn mist]

Nuke

round up the whole island, deploy 3x nukes. GG

[lone junco]

@gusty kestrel are those mythic 3s?

pretty sure the fastest heroic i did was like 12 mins.

https://tenor.com/view/old-gif-8095547

[unborn mist]

look at my comment for how 1:30 mythic islands are done

[lone junco]

I see a comment. Doesnt mean i can get people to be not bad.

[hollow stone]

Can 1:30 even be done with sin rogues? 😏

[sturdy python]

People were doing mythic islands opening week in under 10. Think they changed the enemy AI though

With the nukes? yes

[nimble tartan]

Outlaw ONLY

[hollow stone]

I think outlaw only

[lone junco]

its all good. The gear doodad on raidbots validated me.

[hollow stone]

2nd'd

😃

[lone junco]

I dont mind outlaw in islands though.

mostly for the hook and blade rush

[obsidian sierra]

guys sorry for being the 100th askin this but i forgot where was the spreadhseet pinned with all the items for wednesday and azerite traits

i was on it 1-2 weeks ago but forgot where it was

[civic palm]

#announcements or #rules-and-guides

[obsidian sierra]

thx mate

[onyx ferry]

Hi guys, is ss still good to have for st? I have 1xditb 1xss and 1xdd. Should i change the ss?

[proper igloo]

are people running poison bomb over ct

[sturdy python]

!ct

[prisma monolith]

There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.

[proper igloo]

!ct

[prisma monolith]

There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.

[proper igloo]

thanks

[violet yew]

!ct

[prisma monolith]

There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.

[civic palm]

I need that one more time.

[violet yew]

!pf

[civic palm]

niceTry

[violet yew]

[civic palm]

!best

[prisma monolith]

All specs are good. Specific ones shine in specific areas.
Check the following resources for the facts:
Warcraft Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#class=Rogue
Raider.io: https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict

There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.

[sturdy python]

Is it enough to get the point across though

[coarse quartz]

Is there any sims for the zandalari race?

[bleak star]

CT > Cthulu

[spice surge]

There's no sims for zandalari because they're not finilized yet, the racials that is

[peak musk]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange lichen]

for BoD in your opinions, is still with running at least SS trait? i'm trying to line out what gear i want to prioritize for my guild's loot list

[spice surge]

For cleave you want SS but for pure ST its getting outvalued by other traits

[serene hinge]

Pure ST, does assa look like its the go-to for BoD?

[quick ice]

Pending balance tuning, probably.

[spice surge]

Pure ST going of simcraft sub is doing the highest

But it obviously varies depending on fight length and such, and assa is the best rogue spec at not losing damage during downtime

[robust ivy]

So with 1 SS trait your open is garrote rupture garrote even if you dont have 4+ combo points for the rupture?

[spice surge]

Openers are all in the guide in the pins

[spice ice]

I just got my 5th axe from incursions :> I've only ever gotten 1 dagger. I want to fucking die

I refuse to go outlaw despite Blizzards wishes

[rose perch]

@robust ivy yes it's an exception to the 4+ combo points guideline

[frail quiver]

@spice ice on the plus side, that garbage 370 loot is gonna be more-less useless from wednesday since m0 will give u 370 😄

♿

[spice ice]

:^)

[robust light]

do u guys stack crit or mastery for m+?

[languid ore]

Have you heard about our Lord and savior, raidbots?

[robust light]

yes and? i didnt ask for a stat weight

i asked for a general better stat for m+ which includes many different situations

i see some rogues stack crit, some mastery

[mossy adder]

Crit mastery, less haste for fort weeks more for tyran

Crit is also better with echoing blades traits

[robust light]

ty ^^

[strange python]

hey guys, have a quick general question for trinkets. im not sure wiche onei should use for what. so i have to decide between Dice, Galecallers & Dooms Wake all ilvl 370 for Mythic+ and Raiding. Some say dice and dooms for raid and dice and galecaller for mythic+ other they different. so whats best u mean. im playin rogue not that long actually

[rose perch]

yes dice for sure - you generally don't want two on-use trinkets because they will put each other on a 30sec cd when used. if you're new to rogue then galecaller's might not be the best since it asks more of you than doom's wake (gotta know when you can use it and stay in the circle), so i'd recommend dice and doom's wake for you

[strange python]

okay but whats comb would generally be best for each situation?

i mean i only can be better if i try to play it so why i shouldnt use it if i have it.

[rose perch]

galecaller's works really well with Exsanguinate and Shrouded Suffocation in both raid and M+

but doom's wake is good too especially if you aren't running that build

[strange python]

okay yeah currently im running toxic blade cause i feel more comfortable to it

thanks for the help 😃

[split grail]

Anyone know if the BiS list on ivyveins is accurate(assuming equal ilvl)

[quick ice]

Looks about right, I guess.

[split grail]

Coolio, thanks for actually answering without being rude

[peak saffron]

nothing about BoD is posted yet, huh?

[ornate gazelle]

What gem should rogues be taking on Opulence?

[hardy sequoia]

Isn‘t it random what gem. you get?

[nimble tartan]

its not random

you will have assigned people taking the high prio dps gems

aka topaz and ruby

then the rest will have opal

[strange python]

Can any1 tell me what did i wrong on Mother? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QnrpyGaCBf2Y9mxd/#fight=17&type=damage-done

im Elaradiel

[winter moss]

do you have something else than scent of blood

[strange python]

nah 😄

not for that spot

its about Traits & Array stacks?

[rose perch]

I'm checking your casts now, but yeah traits and array stacks could certainly help

ExS might also perform better for you than TB here with your setup and Galecallers but it wouldn't be by much at all

[strange python]

WoWanalyser tells me all ok

[rose perch]

Your first galecaller's should probably be a few globals earlier

[strange python]

sure ok 😃

[rose perch]

looks like you may have also been refreshing ruptures before pandemic

I see a rupture cast at 15 seconds which must have been at least 4 combo points, and then a 5 combo point rupture at 23 seconds

second vendetta should probably be held here for vanish as well

you've also cast a few mutilates/garrotes that wasted combo points (not just from Seal Fate on mutilate crits)

(source on that: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QnrpyGaCBf2Y9mxd/#fight=17&type=resources&source=5&spell=104)

[strange python]

ok 😃 so i was little dumb? 😄

[rose perch]

yeah nothing too major but a few spots you could clean up the rotation :]

[strange python]

compared to that logs it was dumb i think 😄

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/F4L893BgAKaxk27P#fight=69&type=damage-done

[winter moss]

as drantos noted

[strange python]

yeah 😃

i will change it

and thank u 😃

@rose perch i think the last log from me was ok?

that i posted

[rose perch]

oh i'll look now

[strange python]

thank you very much u are awesome 😄

[winter moss]

the first vendetta is alittle late

[rose perch]

Ok so this time your opener is a little off yeah

vendetta before that first toxic blade

[strange python]

but overall it look ok?

[winter moss]

again nothing to major, on this log you dropped rupture 20 secs into the fight if my maff is correct

[rose perch]

yes it's definitely not bad!

Not sure about the first use of Arcane Torrent either, looks a little weird

once again you want to hold that second vendetta for the second vanish

[strange python]

yeah sure.

[rose perch]

in this case you wouldn't get the full value from it

but if you hold the vendetta for a few seconds it'll affect more of those shrouded ticks!

[winter moss]

and try to plan ahead if you use TB

[rose perch]

and still a bit of mutilate useage at 4 or 5 combo points but a lot better

[winter moss]

you dont want to refresh bleeds in a TB window

[strange python]

its worth casting Rapture -> Garrot->Garrot

[winter moss]

try to get atleast 2 Envenom in TB

[strange python]

or better 2x Garrot

in the guide is written 2x Garrot

[rose perch]

the main thing is to get 2 garrotes in those 3 globals after vanish

[winter moss]

head over to wowhead, mystler updated the guides there

ravenholdt may be a bit earlier from this xpac

[strange python]

I rerolled for 2 weeks or so i think my perf. is ok for that time i need to improve some thinks.

and then im fine

[rose perch]

yes Ravenholdt's a bit outdated here

https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-rotation-guide this is the page

[winter moss]

as said no big mistakes there

you gucci

[rose perch]

You want two garrotes and a finisher, ideally in the combo Garrote / Finisher / Garrote

but it often works out that the best thing to do is Garrote Garrote Finisher which is fine too

[winter moss]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/antonidas/nylerah so close and yet so far from a brighter colour than violet

[strange python]

do you have a WA that shows you an empowered garrot & Rapture?

[rose perch]

parsing mother is all about getting to that last room FAST!

[winter moss]

dont get a WA for that

[strange python]

@winter moss ok? 😄

[winter moss]

i mean you can but for me it feels better to know it

not get is shown by WA

keeps you thinking on what to cast next

and with exS

you gotta take care even more

[rose perch]

yeah I don't use one either but I could see it being useful

[winter moss]

https://wago.io/HyKnScWMz

best thing i can come up with

[strange python]

sure thank u 😃

[rose perch]

@winter moss just get your group to run to the 3rd room in the first 20 seconds and you can do this: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/19#boss=2141&metric=bossdps

[winter moss]

i know

wasnt possible with that comp

if you check the dmg incoming @ transition

youll notice why

[rose perch]

[winter moss]

all 3 healmonks died aswell

[strange python]

@winter moss So only 1 question with rapture i should refreshe it after debuff is gone from the target?

to get the full potencial from the vanish buff?

[rose perch]

Rupture doesn't get helped by Vanish

it's only Garrote

[strange python]

ok 😄 so refreshing in the pandemics

i understand

not when u used exsng before

[rose perch]

Yeah so if you're playing Toxic Blade just refresh it in pandemic pretty much - with Exsanguinate you have to let the exsanguinated one bleed out fully first

[winter moss]

Vanish per say is only used to get stealthed. Magic damage numbers come from SS,Subterfuge

and does not affect Rupture UNLESS you take the talent Nightstalker

[pine badger]

when opening with exsang is it better to wait on the vanish for exsang to come off cd or use vanish as soon as your first garrote falls off?

[rose perch]

you'll vanish as soon as the first one falls off because you'll still be in your vendetta and you want to get vanish on cooldown ASAP so that you can have your second vanish/vendetta be sooner

[pine badger]

ah makes sense , thanks

[glass drift]

is it worth using doom, then change trink to galercaller on the vanish or doesnt it work anymore..? or is galecaller with the 1min cd just better to maintain

was lucky and picked up titanforged gale yesterday

excited to try

[rose perch]

that won't work in M+ because you can't change gear, and it won't work in raid because boss combat stays through vanish

[glass drift]

Thx! 😃

galecaller it is :>

[trail bronze]

@strange python I have my garrote and rupture aware of whether they are empowered or exsanguinated if you want to try this:
https://wago.io/AcVGRZAuG

[pine badger]

Do you guys think exsang will pull ahead of toxic blade for single target with the new traits since we can stack more shrouded

[hearty junco]

any1 have a general idea what traits we will be looking for? im guessing 2 trecherous covenant and 1 nothing personal?

then SS VS DD

[vast forum]

General idea is dd/tc/ss in big amounts, 1 np if you can fit it in

@pine badger with the loss of 750 haste from array, i expect exsg to fall slightly behind tb on pure st, but ss still stays superior for any aoe situation, so you'll want exsg there

[honest iris]

are 370 azerite from regular mythic going to be better than 385 on release?

[exotic jay]

Probably any 5 rings will be better

[grizzled jay]

Wont hurt to do a fast M0 world tour

[warm geode]

they will increase the base ilvl by +30 and cap any base to max 385 today with titanfoge already on max 425 ? im right?

or next week?

[fickle viper]

Can someone confirm/deny for me the interaction with Exsang and SS after SS was changed recently? I recall reading that the change to SS made it a 'stand alone' part of stealth garrotes and it was no longer affected by exsang

[vast forum]

Wat?

That would mean that it gets weaker when you exsg

[zenith gust]

?

[vast forum]

If exsg wouldn't increase its tick speed, but reduced garrote duration, total value of ss would drop when you exsg

[rose perch]

which is not how it works

yeah

[vast forum]

That would be extremely stupid

[lament dove]

don't underestimate Blizzard
I wouldn't rule it out

[warm geode]

"don't underestimate Blizzard" couldnt agree more

[nimble tartan]

who will die with me on this no shrouded suff hill

[night prawn]

hello there:
Someone can tell me why bloodmallet and hero damage simc with TB and Master assassin whereas raidbots sim higher with exsg and garrote.
BloodMallet talent:
https://gyazo.com/ae8598bf3d6ec07fd4fefa6d28f485a0
sim raidbot with Bloodmallet talent:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tiVXyT2fj7au3MvVxpCyWe
sim with exsg:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ktev3CeCpYHZwZzu3SXGYZ

[quick ice]

Different gear that bloodmallet/herodamage uses compared to yours.

[solid nova]

They use a preset gear, which is clearly shown in the breakdown.

You're simming your own personal gear + traits

[night prawn]

so its not up to date i tried with dazalar gear

[solid nova]

Generic weights v Personal

[night prawn]

with the new feature droptimizer

[quick ice]

That's not actually using ALL Daz gear. It applies one piece at a time.

So the rest of.your gear still matyers

[solid nova]

Droptimizer has alot of limitations

It doesnt factor in TF/WF and only looks at 1 piece of gear at a time in terms of upgrades

So you'll need to use it with a pinch of salt

[night prawn]

ok i understand so where i can find the preset gear using by bm or hero damage ?

[nimble tartan]

if you go to herodamage under tier 23

https://i.imgur.com/XPCT6Yh.png

underneath all the options

u can hover over the items

[night prawn]

thank you, so if i tried this set up that actually should be the best gear and talents choice for single target, i'm gonna try this gear with exsg and subterfuge to be sure...

[solid nova]

Yes, your raidbots sim will be more accurate for ST

Simming will always give you a more accurate result

[buoyant coyote]

Ima miss my 750 haste

[chrome current]

guys, is not there some spreedsheet for rogues to optimize the dps in the new raid?

[buoyant coyote]

Do ur rotation?

[night prawn]

Ok i tried by my self and there is no pb look the result here :
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jYdmttHSreqwBbjkkC3sj
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/chJKxMfxN8S1bXGrjneAFM

[hallow walrus]

Is it worth to stack SS in M+? As the CP enhancement doesnt stack, i lean to 1x SS, 2x EB

[bronze kelp]

it is worth

for m+ you want to go 3x ss +3x eb in season 2

SS -> SS -> SS -> CT -> Vanish -> SS -> SS -> SS is my opener on big pulls

6 targets with empowered SS is amazing dmg 😃

[strange python]

Having a little brainfart... what is CT again?

[solid nova]

Crimson Tempest

[strange python]

Thanks.

[elfin fossil]

So have anyone compiled a BIS-list for dazar that one can sneak at? I know the raidbots has a gearfinder-thingy now, but just wanted to know if anyone wrote up something.

[solid nova]

!azerite

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2ATLkfa

[solid nova]

Use that, its the closest thing you'll find, next to other resources

WF/TF make bis lists a thing of the past and have done for years

[elfin fossil]

Yeah I know

Just based on stats on the gear and/or azerite powers

but thanks

[solid nova]

You cant take a combination of the above and the spreadsheet in #announcements and get a pretty decent idea if you're looking for specific rolls etc.

[elfin fossil]

Thanks ❤

[royal lantern]

patch allready out for NA?

[warped gate]

in about 1h30

[brisk sedge]

does anyone have a quick link to some place where i can see all the new gear with new traitcombos?

[solid nova]

#announcements

[royal lantern]

gotta love that bottleneck quest on alliance side, 2-3min respawn timer, only 5 people can tag, 40 people wait 😃

and you need 12 kills

[halcyon axle]

??

[manic veldt]

Someone have a accurate trinket sheet for this patch ?

[spice surge]

Herodamage.com

[vestal wren]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[manic veldt]

Thx

[hearty oriole]

Is there any method u guys are using or possible some add on to apply multiple SS garrotes to make sure u don’t hit the same mob twice or just to make sure you are quick and effective at it? It is it just tab targeting?

[vestal wren]

a hot tip is to set up nameplates to not overlap

[winter moss]

tab tab tab

[vestal wren]

you could possibly also use a mouseover macro

[winter moss]

ya

proper nameplates makes life alot easier

[hot flume]

Got any good nameplate addons ?

Using kuinameplates but still looking for a better one if it exists

[vestal wren]

in what reguard better?

[hot flume]

Regarding the behaviour in a pack configuration

For 5 or more adds

[vestal wren]

i prefere to use flyplatebuff or nameplateauras to see who has a debuff

the nameplate addon is quite irellevant then

[stiff grotto]

New tier gear or rotation ?

[placid dawn]

same rotation probably

"tier" gear is just some new traits

[elfin fossil]

not even that many new traits

[tough whale]

Nothing game changing that drops. Just keep an eye out for how you can use Assas' strengths in the upcoming fights.

[silk robin]

I thought you could use 2 outer ring traits no?

nvm i misread soemthing

[light kestrel]

Damn, got a 400 ilvl helm from the pvp weekly, make sure you do it

[spice surge]

From the weekly chest yeah?

I assume you had like 1.8k rating?

[light kestrel]

No the weekly quest, "Against Overwhelming Odds"

[worthy orchid]

Alliance only

[spice surge]

Oh yeah well

^

[light kestrel]

oh

well then.

The more you know!

[buoyant coyote]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2459325-why-are-90-of-all-pug-rogues LUL

If only everyone was as good as this guy

[royal lantern]

why

do you use

mmo champion

[solid nova]

@buoyant coyote More appropriate for #wow-general mate

[royal lantern]

its full of people that are bad at the game, are toxic and have no clue lul

[buoyant coyote]

aight sz

[solid nova]

All good fam

[sleek iron]

WHAT COLOR DO WE TAKE FOR OPULENCE

oops caps

[solid nova]

https://heroeshearth.com/b/crzypck/read/limits-bod-quick-reference-sheet/#Op

Click boss, read, tell your rl to sort it 😄

[scenic birch]

What do you think about the ne alchemist tinkets? Usefull? Tomorow i can craft the 400ilvl, but i dont know if i change it for 365 dices with socket

[onyx rock]

the alchemist tinket is one of the worst

[spice surge]

You can sim it on raidbots, its also on herodamage

But yes, i doubt it will beat your 365 dice, its a fairly bad trinket

[oblique jackal]

can anyone tell me why treacherous Covenant is simming better than nothing personal

just got the Helm from the first boss in BoD

[spice surge]

A lot of agility > not a lot of damage

Its a better trait, simply put

[oblique jackal]

gotcha 335 doesn't seem like a lot

[civic palm]

o _O

Not really BAD...

just worse

and not by much.

[spice surge]

Yeah, but only the first NP is good

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[dark crag]

But does the sim account for the under 50% hp that will happen in raids?

[civic palm]

IIRC you don't really get that low enough for it to matter.

and there's no build up.

It's on or off.

[spice surge]

No it doesnt account for that, and neither should you because its very rare to stay below 50% for any significant amount of time

Looking at my progress logs from uldir the fight were it would've had the worst uptime was g'huun, and there it would've been 87%

[civic palm]

Will be different depending on comps and raid damage.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spice surge]

And the other fights were 95%+

[civic palm]

Seems fine atm

[spice surge]

Yeah ofc

[civic palm]

hp potions are third dps pot 👌

[spice surge]

Yikes then i might have to stop being lazy and having my healthstone and pot macrod together

So i can have 4 dps pots

[oblique jackal]

hero dmg shows SS with exgs over DD

[spice surge]

Yes, if you're using exsang then ss is better than dd, its been that way all throughout bfa

[civic palm]

"over"

They're basically tied.

and you can't fuck up DD

[spice surge]

Typically burst beats sustained though, so even if they're tied for overall i'd say ss is better (assuming exsang, which most of the time doesnt sim higher than tb)

[civic palm]

and if there's ever another target, SS/Sub/EX wins.

[spice surge]

yy

[civic palm]

or any boss that takes bonus damage.

of which there is at least 1 in BoD > _>

[full pagoda]

Hey guys, any suggestions how to start analyzing my personal logs?

Like, I totally have no idea how to look at my mistakes or what I've done so wrong.

[oblique jackal]

sorry i just started back on the game so i was unaware

[spice surge]

No worries

[oblique jackal]

thank you for the help

[spice surge]

@full pagoda The first thing you should be looking at is your Garrote and Rupture uptimes

On a full ST fight those should be up 98%+ of the time if you're using tb and 95%+ if you're exsang

[full pagoda]

I know that but that wasn't what I meant. There are some people who criticize me and they seem to aren't even better than me. when you open a log, how exactly do you start looking at your mistakes, I am not talking about the uptime, about positioning, when or why are you doing that, why are you there or why aren't you there

[short token]

guys when is the optimal time to use/keybind an on use trinket effect

[spice surge]

wdym, not having good uptime is a misstake. Are you more refering to overall misstakes rather than rogue dps ones?

But yeah replay is good

[idle vigil]

Anyone know what bosses

they are coining?

im a bit confused on what to use on

[marble hemlock]

blockade/rasta/mekka

are bis pieces for both outlaw and assa

as far as i recall

[stuck knoll]

Not for outlaw

Champion, jadefire, conclave

[marble hemlock]

jadefire for TC?

[stuck knoll]

Yeah

[sinful fern]

My top sims don't run any shrouded, probably toxic blade over exang if that's the case yeah?

[marble hemlock]

for pure st thats most likely the way to go, yes

for the raid in particular, i can see exsang and a SS heavy build to still be pretty viable, considering that theres a lot of cleave/multidot going on which the tb/dd/ttk build doesnt mesh too well with

then again you could just play outlaw for those and run assa for pure ST

[unborn barn]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[spice surge]

The last bosses are mostly ST though

[civic palm]

Having options is important.

[spice surge]

Ye ofc

[copper kestrel]

How much of a gap is there if you build for ST vs AoE? (Are we micro-optimizing or is this going to drive big gains?) Both for secondaries/traits

I've always been a lazy raider and simmed/built for patchwerk, which I realize is very shortsighted.

[marble hemlock]

its gonna be similar to uldir, where you will try to keep 2 sets of gear/azerite depending on whether youre running TB or exsang

and which one of those specs you play will depend on the encounter and how its designed

i.e. on blockade, if the add is a big issue and it respawns every ~30sec or so, TB might be the better option.

stuff like that

not exactly sure how long it takes to kill and how long the debuff will last aftzer picking up the orb

[civic palm]

It's less than 2k but you will have to SIM for yourself and see if the difference is larger or not.

But yeah, encounters almost never work out how the SIM is designed to operate.

[marble hemlock]

the TB/DD build is more ST oriented, and if you play assa you generally do it for the cleave-potential, not its raw singletarget

[civic palm]

If you're trying to actually min/max then yeah.

[spice surge]

True, we could probably see some sub for those pure ST bosses

[civic palm]

Yeah, 100%.

[marble hemlock]

i can see sub on opulence, if theres a way to keep the adds controlled

[spice surge]

Sub does sim a fair bit above both assa and outlaw for ST

Becuase tfd is so overtuned

[marble hemlock]

conclave might also be strong, since you should be able to hit 2 targets with fok at all times due to the council-fight design, but not sure how high the uptimes will be since you have to dodge shit a lot at the end of the fight

so thats where sub might suffer

[civic palm]

Yeah, will depend on add strength/raidDPS.

[sudden ravine]

Got a Nothing Personal Double Dose helm from PVP Pogchamp

[civic palm]

woo

[marble hemlock]

for pure ST you wanna play sub, unless the boss forces you to move out of melee range on a somewhat consistent basis, at which point youd rather play outlaw/assa on that one

[lost horizon]

Outlaw gets hit hard by downtime too

[eternal sigil]

Loving the SS on every piece lol

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[marble hemlock]

theres not as many "spread" mechanics as we had in uldir, which is what made sub a bad progress-spec

[copper kestrel]

Is Sub's rotation still significantly more active than Sin? (Just returning from Legion)

[lost horizon]

Little bit?

[spice surge]

If you're running the pure ST build for sub yes

If you're using DS then not by much

[marble hemlock]

wouldnt say its significantly more active, you still have large downtimes where you do nothing but spam backstab/wait for autoattacks

but its a bit faster than assa

[lost horizon]

Idk sin is extremely straight forward so it's a tough comparison

[spice surge]

With ES its definitely faster

[eternal sigil]

sub is fast enough where if you have latency, you can miss a global which sucks

[spice surge]

well, if you always have high latency you can edit your options so you dont miss globals

Having spiky latency is what screws it

[civic palm]

Yarrr

[marble hemlock]

problem with sub is that its very slow for ~15seconds and then you have to be on your toes for every shadowdance, and then its back to backstabbing again

[lost horizon]

Oh yeah definitely faster, lot of downtime with DS but even then you're still trying to hit those GCDs in dance

[marble hemlock]

assa is pretty mellow throughout the entire fight, sub has fast-paced gameplay every ~20seconds or so when you have a shd charge

[short token]

are you guys saving your residuum or using them today for the double outer ring?

[copper kestrel]

Yeah, sorry "less straightforward" is more close to what I meant. I loved the peak/valley of Sub's rotation.

But this time around I'm trying to be diligent about only adding complexity when it adds significant gains. (Like if Blindside/MFD sim the same as Elaborate Planning / Vigor)

[marble hemlock]

gonna do raid first, then do m0 to fill out missing pieces

[civic palm]

Yep

[marble hemlock]

and hodl residue until myth week

[lost horizon]

Sub is worth playing on patchwerk, remains to be seen if it'll be worth on any particular bosses in BoD

[marble hemlock]

if i happen to get enough residue for a random 415 piece, ill buy that so i can trade 1/3 of raid azerite

[civic palm]

:3

[spice surge]

The bluest of the blues

[civic palm]

Will probably play SIN until done learning, options next week.

[lost horizon]

Easier to raidlead as sin for me

So unfortunately that's where I'm likely gonna be

[civic palm]

_>

[lost horizon]

I like sub better 🤷

[marble hemlock]

wouldnt call it unfortunate

[spice surge]

Play whatever you get good azerite for 4Head

[marble hemlock]

allows you to focus on more important stuff while still getting the job done very well

[lost horizon]

Sin is fine, if anything it feels more complete

I just like playing sub more

[civic palm]

Failing mechanics is worse than any other fate > _>

[lost horizon]

@marble hemlock yeah that's why I'm opting for sin

[copper kestrel]

Last Question: I hear crafting is a thing this expac. I've never fucked with it. Do I "need" to go level leather working ?

I just returned (hit 120, i326 last night). My old guild is going to M0+ me up (to 370, I think it is). I should be doing current content after that (they were doing Mythic last tier).

[civic palm]

I'd rather play DH than fail mechanics O _O

almost

[marble hemlock]

engi has a helmet, jc has a ring with socket, LW has boots+legs

you wont be able to craft 415 ilvl pieces until week 2 or 3, depending on how many myth bosses you killed

[lost horizon]

If you're behind on gear it's probably worth, but it's dependent on how fast you prog

[marble hemlock]

for progression going engi+LW is best option, engi so you can trade any helmet that drops from raid, and LW cause it provides 2 pieces, not just one. eventually you are gonna swap either one of those for JC to get the ring instead

most topguilds are running engi+will buy a random chest or shoulder piece on day 1, that way they're able to trade 2/3 of the azerite that drops from the start to optimize loot distribution

[spice surge]

You can get the 415 item week 2 if you just clear hc and kill a few mythic bosses (assuming you've done 15 mythic dungeons)

[marble hemlock]

usually not a concern for "regular" raiders though, so going lw+jc gives you the best options imo

will depend on how many of the new crafting mats drop per boss on hc/myth

[spice surge]

Its 10 per boss on hc

[marble hemlock]

if its like uldir, week 2 is realistic for most people

double clear hc, clear normal, and 3 mythic bosses will get you to 250 materials

[copper kestrel]

Roger

[marble hemlock]

well, 249, but just kill one more normal boss and youre good to go 😄

[spice surge]

You only need 220

This time around, atleast for the ring

[marble hemlock]

did they reduce the amount needed? neato

[spice surge]

20 for 400 and 200 for the 415

[marble hemlock]

yeah, then its no problem

[civic palm]

ezpzthen yeah

[marble hemlock]

and you get back the 20when you scrap it

[spice surge]

With scrapping the low level ones refunding full expolsum and those mats

It will be way easier this time around

[marble hemlock]

getting expulsom back is nice

hated having to craft 500 shitty green items just to get another 50 expulsom, and then get vers+mastery pants for the third time in a row 😦

[civic palm]

Yeeaaaahhhh

[copper kestrel]

Yikes

[idle vigil]

Question: for conclave fight in new raid

is it worth double odtting for more energy to pump into the primary target

since damage ons econdary means literally nothing

[civic palm]

Probably.

Depends on if you tanks keep shit together/close enough.

[idle vigil]

i mean just from numbers point of view

do u do more ST if you put bleeds on 2 targets?

[spice surge]

Yes, but not massively

[marble hemlock]

i dont think theres a consensus or sim that confirms or refutes that theory

think its only worth if you dont lose autoattacks on your maintarget

things change if youre running one or multiple scent of blood traits

[civic palm]

just mouseover 4head

[spice surge]

Yeah, if you have to run around then its prob not worth

[sturdy python]

The energy gain would have to make up a full enveom basically

[marble hemlock]

problem generally isnt the rupture, its keeping up DP on the 2nd target

[copper kestrel]

From Assassin guide on the "Shrouded Suffocation + Toxic Blade" opener.
It's 1) Garrote, 2) Rupture, 3) Garrote...

1. Why double garrote instead of mutilate? (Is it just the extra ticks of an empowered garrote + cheap combo point - that can't crit/double?)
2. Why a 2pt rupture?

[astral tangle]

Anyone have any gear guides for BoD? Who are people bonus rolling?

[terse rune]

@copper kestrel 2pt rupture because of pandemic -> this low rupture is added to the other 5 cps rupture

2 times garrote to get a longer one of course

pandemic again

30% of a DoTs length is added to the DoT you are overwriting

[copper kestrel]

Yep, I love pandemic! But since the "no shroud + tb" opener has neither, I thought something else might be going on with the improved garrote. That opener is: 1) Garrote 2) Mut until 4+ 3) Rupture.

[terse rune]

you wanna have the longest possible garrote and rupture before Exsanguinating

[sturdy python]

He's playing tb

But yes, longer empowered garrote that way and you get tb out quickly

[fresh ginkgo]

wait you get explousm back now?

when you disenchant crafted gear?

[spice surge]

Im not 100% sure about disenchanting but i would assume it works

It works when scrapping atleast

[fresh ginkgo]

thats probably the best news i heard today

sweet

[fleet whale]

so treacherous covenant looks to be pretty good

[wispy estuary]

any updates on trinkets from the raid?

[spice surge]

All of them are on the sim trinket lists

[ancient mist]

👋
Invite the bot to your Discord: https://goo.gl/uvbnZ4
Join the Raidbots Discord: https://discord.gg/86EF64Q
Raidbots website: https://www.raidbots.com/
Send !raidbots -h for help!
@spice surge

[spice surge]

Thats the wrong command, mb

[nimble tartan]

opulence bugged for anyone else?

no gems spawning at all

[spice surge]

But they are on the herodamage and bloodmallet website

[wispy estuary]

k thanks

[spice surge]

The gems never went away earlier, so i assume they just disabled them

[nimble tartan]

cant do the boss without the gems though

[spice surge]

🤷

[plain thistle]

they will fix it tomorrow, thx for the test NA 😂

[civic palm]

Welcome

[plain thistle]

opulance is what? fourth boss? can you skip him?

[plain jacinth]

There are kills on wcl for opulence, so it should be possible regardless

[nimble tartan]

its all with gems

out group had 0 gem spawns

legit nothign changed just no spawn table

cant skip

[fluid mist]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[coarse knot]

ye my guild killed opulence

[high holly]

what are y'all simming at now?

[full depot]

i got a bug on opulence where the gems didnt spawn so we couldnt kill it

[gilded thistle]

The new reaping affix for M+ looks like it is going to be beneficial to burst them down ASAP. Do you think Outlaw will shine more than Sin in high M+?

[dark crag]

Yes

[bleak sky]

the gems are indeed bugged rn but opal is insane

[somber hill]

So if u have 2 shrouded sufs is it still worth to exsang?

with galecallers?

or is TB the meta again?

[plain thistle]

[leaden kestrel]

@copper kestrel SS gives 2 additional combo points making garrote a guaranteed 3 pt cast from stealth, not 2. Which I think will explain your confusion. With SS you only have 3 sec to cast garrote it 2 times. So you cast garrote, rupture, garrote get to max time from pandemic on your empowered garrote, get rupture up and not waste any combo points.

[copper kestrel]

Ah, of course!

But wait. Wouldn't that logic still imply Non-SS+TB should double garrote instead of garrote+Mut? Or is it that SS is what pushes garrote over the line to be worth it?

[sleek iron]

getting stuck on stormfall

stormwall

[haughty flame]

so for trinkets we gna be farming m+ dungeons again this whole tier? 😄

[leaden kestrel]

Not really. The main reason you want 2 casts of garrote with SS, is so you can have the empowered garrote up as long as possible. With a normal garrote, you can cast whenever you want/need. Additionally, w/o SS garrote only gives 1 combo point. So using Mutilate now gives you guaranteed more combo points and is a better use of your energy.

[vestal wren]

@spice surge its !sims

[tall pecan]

anyone have a weak aura for the new VIGOR trinket?

[hollow stone]

Lol, read that as vigor talent. Was all ?????

[serene hinge]

With DD and the new covenant trait, should we still be running any SS?

[storm drift]

HellO

[tall pecan]

id type out the name but the bot would delete it for a wall of text so its VIGOR

[solid nova]

Easiest thing to do mate it take 5mins to learn how to add a wa for that. It's fairly simple and will be beneficial in the long run.

[tall pecan]

easier to wait til someone makes one tbh :p ill wait

[hollow stone]

Its really really simple to make a WA like that. Tons of vids on the tube of yous. Waiting is obv an option too but

[solid nova]

Saves you having to wait in future but your call dude

[leaden garden]

If I play TB, do I not "need" SS traits right? Atm using Nothing Personal, Archive, and Double Dose.... but I can swap any out for a SS trait but tbh don't you waste cp when multidoting if opening with 3 garrote

[sturdy python]

Sim it, ss is better on cleave typically

[serene hinge]

Does Archive still do things?

[royal lantern]

it gives you mainstat

[untold current]

What BFD fights will be cleave? All?

Most of them look like they have adds of some sort

[sleek iron]

i think most fights will still favor sin over sub

[spice sorrel]

the guide is up on ravenholdt @untold current

link in #announcements

[modest badge]

is raidbots working with the new azerite gear? i got the exact same traits with as my old one but with an extra double dose and it says its worse by 100 deeps

[solid nova]

Link the sims? Array?

[lusty saddle]

any rogue BOD stream?

[solid nova]

#rogue-streamers have a look, or twitch.

[lusty saddle]

ty alot

[modest badge]

sec

nvm i read it wrong its 1k inc

[solid nova]

[primal gazelle]

they finally fixed the assassination icon on details

its not longer the eviscerate icon

[fading vigil]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ji3uR99KALcrUGStDK834S

[stiff grotto]

is there a guide for new raid for assasinations?

[civic palm]

Check #announcements

[solid nova]

^

[stiff grotto]

ty

[coarse carbon]

I know the answer is 99.9% always found through simming- though i'm curious as to why I see top parsing rogues running ~1,200 haste pretty regularly when raidbots suggests me to run with ~1,600 haste. Am I hitting an overcap in haste that i'm unaware of? Any insight is appreciated.

[leaden garden]

Is it REALLY 2+ targets to make FoK better than Mutil? I always thought 3+

[marble hemlock]

2+ with EB

[weary arrow]

in the new raid for the first time so bear with me, but for any NE rogue mains or people in the know, when do you shadowmeld in the rotation? example: get five 5CP->shadowmeld->eviserate is that a thing? as a troll rogue that gets turned into a NE in the new raid, when is the best time to shadowmeld?

[leaden garden]

@marble hemlock and without? 3? using double dose, no echoes

[marble hemlock]

yup

[dark lantern]

When running Master Assassin + TB, what's the proper use of Vanish later in the fight? Do you TB before vanish and go for two envenoms + one mutilate?

(Basically mut to 3-4 CP, TB, Vanish, Envenom, Mut, Envenom? Or do you wanna get TB in during the MA window?)

[placid dawn]

look at the sample action sequence in the sim

do a quick sim with those talents and use the link to the simc output

[strange python]

Assassination or Outlaw for BFD ?

[dark lantern]

Well. Use garrote in the middle of Master Assassin. Would not have guessed that one at all lol.

[silent silo]

Why Bliz, I don't want to farm m+ for trinkets again.... First raid trinket is 11'th down

[dark lantern]

Ah, second time it was envenom>mut>envenom, must have just been an awkwardly time vanish the first time?

[oak inlet]

Looking for someone that can help me better understand the rotation but I don't want to jam up chat with questions that have been asked a million times. Anyone willing to communicate via PMs?

[bronze kelp]

then ask one person if he is so kind to talk with you in private chat 😉

[nimble tartan]

im st god with my m0 azerite rn

[cobalt gyro]

My first azerite pieces in season 2 lets me run 2x scent 2x eb

Holy shit

[nimble tartan]

2 double dose blightborne and dagger in the back

and an archive kkona

[raven mica]

I forgot if, when using a galecallers and Exsang, do you hold exsang for galecaller's?

[cobalt gyro]

Depends how long you need to wait

[raven mica]

15 seconds.

[strange python]

we should be simming with zero uldir stacks now correct?

[nimble tartan]

ye

[strange python]

ty

[cobalt gyro]

Raidbots defaults to it off now so unless you're specifically simming uldir it'll be off without needing to change anything

Definitely dont hold exsang that long

[raven mica]

Also I forgot if you hold exsang for vendetta or hold vendetta for exsang

[cobalt gyro]

Exsang for vend

[raven mica]

So you're only gonna get 1 exsang in between vendettas anyways

So then you're gonna get it in your galecaller's anyways.

[sturdy python]

No

You hold vendetta for exsang

Holding exsan for vendetta is holding it for about 20 secs. Doing that twice is a lost cast

Ofc if the fight is short enough it doesn't hurt but generally not a good idea

[main monolith]

hi guys one question , nothing personal x3 trait he staked?

[dark lantern]

do you mean if it's worth stacking?

[vital haven]

any reason you guys might think as to why im getting random combo pts as sin?

[bleak spoke]

When is t happening

Otherwise, no idea :^)

[vital haven]

it sometimes happens

maybe its the lag idk but sometimes i just get randomly an extra combo point

[dark lantern]

@main monolith in Master Assassin+Toxic Blade build, the 2nd and third stack of nothing personal are worth about 70% of the first stack. Having one stack is pretty decent, but there's generally other traits worth more than the second and third stack. In Shrouded+Exsang build, the 3 stacks are pretty much equal, but not worth as much in TB build and there's a fair bit of better traits in the non-class specific ones

[bleak spoke]

What abilities are you using etc

[vital haven]

like the shadow techniques passive

just the basic rotation

[bleak spoke]

Sounds like server lag

[vital haven]

ye most likely

[bleak spoke]

Probably giving you the ones from seal fate late or something

[dark lantern]

@vital haven There's combo points from crits (Seal Fate). If you're running in warmode in world/pvp content, there's also a PVP talent that gives you combo points for crits by nearby allies

Other than that I can't think of why you'd get random combo points o.O