Would like more aoe as assass
#assassination
solid nova
Ah nice 😄
sturdy python
Assassin is probably the best sustained aoe in the game right now
That's just only really a thing in m+ though atm
languid ore
Isn't sub getting nerfed further in 8.1? That just leaves ass and law. Depending on how much cleave there is in 8.1 it's looking like ass is gonna be top dog
sturdy python
It's getting damage removed from sh combo and added to sstorm. I hear it is a Nerf overall but idk
Outlaw is getting a new trait that some people think will help it out
languid ore
It'll help but bf still has a cap
sturdy python
Sure but depending on how strong outlaw is itself that might not matter
Doubt it though, sin scales too well anyway
Don't hate, appreciate
lone hamlet
How’s actually outlaw generally ?
languid ore
The best. If you're looking to push content id go with outlaw
sturdy python
Once it run out of bf other stuff will out pace it
languid ore
Unless pressing buttons at a face pace is intimidating
lone hamlet
Bf what is it
sturdy python
Outlaw is pretty good, it's just assassin does everything better except burst aoe
royal lantern
tbf, assassination should do higher st dmg and sustained aoe by desing
outlaws niche in bfa is supposed too be good cleave/good burst aoe, but you only need that for some fights, not all the time
wide delta
@echo night bro can u please link the link to the Changes please ?
hollow stone
So m mythrax now... melee can just stack all over each other yeah? I really like my fellow rogue and want to be inside him during bosses if at all possible
dense blaze
correct
hollow stone
As richard said "Theres a breakdown on wowhead of everything, can filter by class and spec"
fair sparrow
there is weak aura for that, it should be easy to find
blazing forge
oh cool
echo night
@wide delta https://www.wowhead.com/guides/azerite-trait-updates-in-patch-8-1-tides-of-vengeance#rogue
Oops that was azerite
dense quest
no need to link it 2 other ppl did
solid nova
@blazing forge https://wago.io/S17rjKruX
royal lantern
oof, rip deadly brew
quick fog
I'm mad Sharpened Blades is getting turned into a Sub trait. >.>
blazing forge
ty
hollow junco
good riddance to sharpened blades
quick fog
I didn't like the trait but it was the best thing I had on my 385 piece
tropic shadow
Most of the raid pieces have SS so you can look forward to that as well as more M+ pieces with SS
hollow junco
Most of the raid pieces have SS
praise ion.
lone junco
is "spray of knives" another fok? so the CPs can chain crit?
or is the fok crit spray, just dmg.
strange python
Fan of Knives damage is increased by 137. For each of the first 5 critical strikes, it will fire a second spray of knives at that location, dealing 328 damage to enemies within 8 yards.
But I bet that second wave will not be affected by crit
lone junco
right, i read that. just wondering if the second wave will gen cps on crit.
i doubt it will
lone junco
I liked pw.
it just wasnt strong enough
and didnt synergize with ss.
but once we shifted to DD/Twist, it would have been great
signal summit
spice surge
Wowhead/wowdb
umbral hemlock
I don't get it. are Garrote gonna be a talent? It says Garrote under talents
In the PTR notes
fleet whale
garrote is not going to be a talent, the only change it got was that it requires a weapon to use now
hollow stone
Makes perfect sense. How can you garrote somebody irl without a knife in your hand
ornate forum
Well, the icon is literally a razor wire. Unless I've been looking at it wrong all these years
hollow stone
Lol
ornate forum
👌
lone junco
3ss memes will be missed.
that might have been pre nerf though
25k ticks
meems folder needs new content.
spice surge
Any fokkening memes?
slim olive
umbral hemlock
Thanks god. I almost shat a green pig
lone junco
@slim olive yeah. that sstep knife opener was actually really cool
vanish fok in trash for NDSP was good game imo
tropic shadow
What’s the optimal way to use exsang in a trash pack scenario? Something like 4 targets. Just got my 2nd SS piece so I haven’t had much experience with exsang
lone junco
I tend to use it every pull on the prio mob.
so
g g g ct fok fok rupture exang
add in vendetta and vanish if the mob is a super baddy.
or st pull.
that exang is mostly an energy pump to start your trash pack.
helps you tab out 4+ ruptures.
tropic shadow
Ah okay I’ll practice that later, ty!
lone junco
Galecaller lines up well there.
dont bother with a 4th garrote until the first 3 drop off. once you have the ruptures tabbed out, garrote is pretty worthless. can vanish g g g to refresh if it is a major pack.
tropic shadow
Doing mostly 10-14 keys so trash dies pretty quickly
vapid moth
which level 75 talent do yall use for M+
tropic shadow
And with CT, to get the most benefit do pulls have to be on the larger side, or is that something I’d have to sim using the dungeon script to get the best answer
lone junco
CT vs PB doesnt sim that well for M+. Sims assume flat footed application. meaning PB hits all the shit.
CT is great for kites or tanks that dont stand still.
tropic shadow
Ah, that’s interesting, didn’t think of it that way before
lone junco
same with Galecaller.
the assumption is that you are in the circle
if you are not in the circle, it only applies to the Exang.
but we use it due to bosses. its not insane for the trash component, but there are still ST fights.
so you can stack crit/mastery, and reserve GC for a good haste pop to the st moments.
vapid moth
what level 75 talent do you use for m+
marble hemlock
iron wire
spice surge
IB for fat damage, but i would run wire if i were doing high keys
royal lantern
i like IB cus it gives you a shitton of energy, wich is great too burst down priority targets
tidal sedge
have you guys seen the new traits for sin rogues? they are all getitng a vers multiplier so does that mean we actually need vers 😦
vapid moth
damn ive really been sleeping on IB for so long.
i was using prey in pvp then remember it was nerfed to shit and i never checked out hte other choices. thought IB did its damage over 12 sec or some shit till then
royal lantern
nah, IB ticks REALLY fast, wich makes it great too get energy back
vapid moth
gotchu
opaque grotto
IB is nasty, it ticks harder than rupture
You definitely get more dmg out of it than you would from prey
rare jackal
royal lantern
take IB and check the passive
royal lantern
yeha, idk why its only in the tooltip when you have the talent
dark crag
Because you only have it when you have it
strong sundial
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
royal lantern
@dark crag yeha, makes sense, but still confusing because i have the feeling that most people dont think that IB counts for venomous wounds
still pewter
royal lantern
do we allready know the new raid trinkets?
and i have that weird feeling that i need too farm galecallers everytime a new raidtier opens ._.
marsh bloom
Archive better than SoB in pvp?
wow someone actually answered inthe pvp chat nvm lol
dark crag
New m+ season means refarm gcb
royal lantern
oof
dark crag
Everytime
brisk sedge
what's IB?
dark crag
Internal bleeding
royal lantern
my ass is not ready for the SotS farm everytime the ilvl cap gets higher ._.
brisk sedge
ah yes ofc.
craggy needle
we crimson tempest at 2 targets right? just not 1?
spice surge
3
craggy needle
ah okay, ty
royal lantern
keep the dot up at 3, spam at 5-6
spice surge
Shrine is pretty chill tbh, atleast if youre running with a premade group
Sub is amazing there
royal lantern
i like tol dagor at this point, did it sooooo many times too get a decent weapon, can do it with closed eye's now
just hate the camera on the cannon part, you cant see shit
sturdy python
Hate the cannon part. My favorite route is just death running that part
devout osprey
So is Ravenholdt better to use the Icyveins?
So far I'm finding teh rotation for this class to be WAAAAAAAAAY easier then Affliction
royal lantern
w8, isnt affliction just dot->dot->shadowbolt until full soulshards->spamm unstable....?
devout osprey
sorta
but it's the nature of spamming dots
I can't stand having that many dots
not when the class itself isnt fun.
dark crag
Assa is a dot spec too
devout osprey
Not as bad
royal lantern
thats why i nicknamed souldrain fundrain in legion, you top the meters and want too kill yourself while doing it:P
devout osprey
I started playing rogue on Classic
servers
and came back for BFA
I knew I had to play Rogue
So...back to topic. Icy Veins is no go?
spice surge
The guide in the pin or wowhead guide is my recommendation
steel terrace
hi guyz. what option should i set on raidbots stat weight for mythic + gear? can anyone send a screenshot?
dense quest
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
steel terrace
should i paste in my /simc ?
dense quest
there is a how to use vid
steel terrace
ok cool
ty
where should i paste the :
calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"
?
strange python
somewhere in the script
velvet kernel
where can you see the new profesions shit?
light rampart
I’m i the only one not liking the galecaler spec? I switched back after getting it honestly
So used to the rotation that gale feels clunky and losing dps over it in raids
surreal lodge
gale doesnt change your standard rotation tho? im confused
just some fights u cant stand in it
light rampart
I think so tho? Having to make sure my bleeds are topped of eventho my bleeds are not in the range to refresh yet
That’s the biggest part I’m struggling on
spice surge
?
surreal lodge
youd only need to do that if theyre gonna run out in the 10seconds of galecallers tho right? and at that point you're only refreshing a few seconds early if that
spice surge
Galecallers has literally no impact on your gameplay, except trying to make sure you dont step out of it
lone junco
if your GC and exang are going to be used at the same time, just make sure to hit GC first.
light rampart
Hmm
I feel like I’m doing something wrong
I feel like I have to refresh my bleeds whenever ex is coming of cooldown even when it’s not in pandemic ( I’m used to playing without ex, I used to sim better eventho I run double SS)
Side note. Gale makes me sim better in ex
royal lantern
getting shittalked by a boomkin on the ToS endboss cus he has higher dps then me
ffs, some people dont understand shit about classes lol
ornate forum
Reminds me of taking my frost mage alt to temple on a quaking week. We kept wiping about 45 seconds in on shocky boi boss because the healer was garbage. Yet the healer was raging about dps being bad and tha't's why we're failing - because an aff lock and a frost mage couldn't keep up with the assassin rogue on a 40 second fight length (and during quaking to boot). I just kept shaking my head.
ripe nimbus
please everyone, be kind to any of the remaining sub rogue mains coming over here, they need love and compassion right now.
vocal lantern
Shhh, Let's be nice. They've been forced from their homes okay.
strange python
I don't understand blizzard thought process on rogues at all
vocal lantern
Well, That's cause we have the brain cells to play the real spec
dense blaze
Bring back DfA
strange python
@gusty kestrel clearly
civic palm
This is still #assassination , not #subtlety .
young socket
So how about that poison bomb
dense blaze
Sherlock solves another case
hot coyote
Imagine playing only one spec 🤔
vocal lantern
But be nice to the defects from sub okay!!! they need a place to stay and we shouldn't turn away those that could bolster our numbers
dense blaze
Well come 8.1 you'll only have two specs to keep up with
civic palm
2
dense blaze
Naw Outlaw still has blade flurry
civic palm
Affliction :3
velvet kernel
Lmao
pearl widget
is Shrouded Suffocation still BiS?
civic palm
For M+ you want as many as you can get without sacrificing too much item level.
For Raids if you're a Night Elf you probably want 1 as well.
pearl widget
just 1 stack for raid?
civic palm
Depends on everything else you have. Check WCL there's a wide spread of 1-2 SS with Archive/DD/etc.
pearl widget
Thanks 😃
swift skiff
!help
devout osprey
So which is an easier spec ass or out
civic palm
Do you like maintaining DoTs or Pushing Buttons more?
winter niche
Maintaining dots is kinda boring after playing afflock so i find outlaw more fun personally
But sin is my second spec
royal lantern
outlaw is more easy too get into imo
assassination atleast needs too line up some stuff and keep an eye on pandemic timers, outlaw is always pretty much the same
icy ember
hey asn rogues, what is a good setup for M+? is 3x shrouded suffocation still good?
lost horizon
yep
icy ember
so what changed about shrouded suffocation? its damaged was nerfed?
damage*
but its still top dog after nerf, like deadshot for outlaw
lost horizon
nothing recently
wide bolt
karmic ingot
Scent of Blood is very strong on fortified weeks.
icy ember
is 'Cleave' considered 2+ or 3+ targets?
sturdy python
Any number I'd think, usually it's 2 or 3 that live for a long time
So like council style fights
undone minnow
hey, could someone help me with a weak aura question i have for tracking debuffs on target frame?
civic palm
Fire away.
undone minnow
right now i made a group of debuffs that show over the frame when applied, and the text is in white which i want
but
i want the text to change color when its in pandemic range and glow
so go from white to red and start glowing for example
civic palm
Goto CONDITIONS for each of the WA, set Remaining Duration as the Conditions and enter the correct pandemic timers.
velvet kernel
ok so
civic palm
There will then be options as to what you DO with that CONDITION and you can set it to GLOW (/w a checkbox) and change color.
velvet kernel
how many buttons would you say sin has?
velvet kernel
rip kingslayer
undone minnow
would u recommend using a 4pt timer for rupture pandemic?
velvet kernel
friend said it had 3
undone minnow
or can i use a percent condition?
velvet kernel
and that dh was more intricate
undone minnow
for the 30%
velvet kernel
guess i now know why he is trash
undone minnow
so then go off of 4 pt rupture timer
civic palm
You will only ever be able to get so much added to the new DoT, so a literal number works fine.
undone minnow
ok thank you for the help 😃
@civic palm hey so i got the color change but im having trouble with the glow
cant get the glow effect on it for some reason
civic palm
There's a little checkbox next to the glow, has to be checked.
undone minnow
ya i just found that haha my bad
civic palm
👌
sand hearth
Hey, i was wondering why Mutilate sometimes gives me 3 combo points instead of 2.
civic palm
One crits one doesn't, like this -
undone minnow
@civic palm hey one other question
is there a way to attach weakauras to enemy name plates to track debuffs?
currently have elvui debuffs for enemy nameplates
calm quartz
Sub or Sin for 10-14key farm?
strange python
Sin
civic palm
@undone minnow As far as I know that's not a frame you can target to clamp WA's to anymore without some further knowledge of LUA.
undone minnow
hmm alright, ill see if i can find anything like that, no luck so far though
just wish i could change more for the debuffs in elvui
thanks though
velvet kernel
@undone minnow maybe you can as they can put fixated and infested on nameplates with weakaura's if you can catch someone like nnoggas stream i would ask him
undone minnow
ya thats a good point!
gleaming siren
okay, trying to find a definitive answer - can you snapshot stealth empowered garrote by continuously refreshing it before it wears off?
Okay finding stuff that says snapshotting was essentially removed in WOD... this is what I get for not raiding since cata.. anyone can correct me/call me an idiot now
supple hearth
lavish spruce
noob question, what's the simcraft settings for mythic+ ? patchwerk 6 bosses 3min? or do people still use hectic add cleave
hard perch
huh i think it depends on the boss you fight ?
lavish spruce
just meant for like the constant m+ aoe pulls
icy ember
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
icy ember
use that ^
lavish spruce
ty
shut basalt
I've seen conflicting information - how many targets should I wait before using Fan of Knives assuming t hey have poisons on already?
shut basalt
Thanks, it msut have been updated since I last read it and that was why I was confused
vapid moth
Oh shit no more FoK priority at 3 target
timber sage
how good will the new alch trinket be Eternal Alchemist Stone 415ilvl?
vestal wren
lfr hero 👍
light rampart
Uhm....wat?@fervent finch
muted jacinth
congrats I guess?
light rampart
Right
hot hill
Nhc is the new LFR. Look up this 
dark crag
When you see your name on that list and know exactly where its from
fervent finch
@light rampart my ranking was for boss dps only
earnest quest
Hey guys, I understand that many ppl think that ass is the go to rogue spec currently for raids (Except Zul) but taking a look at warcraftlogs and filtering the top 80% parses, it looks like outlaw and sub are outdoing ass by a little. Why is this the case then? Doesnt warcraftlogs info show that outlaw and sub are better?
I'm not sure if this info takes Zul into account because if it did then I understand Sub dropping down a few notches cause Zul is an anomaly so to speak
It seems more ppl play outlaw than even sub so was wondering why ppl keep claiming that sin is the king of rogue specs right now cause from the data, it doesnt appear so. In fact outlaw should be the go to spec
If its just cause sin is easier to play then I understand... Haha
normal spear
Many logs are cheesed as hell (look at top mother parses)
strange python
assa is better in p3 ghuun which is where dmg matters
better on mythrax unless you struggle with small adds
better on fetid if youre on big add and if youre on small you go sub pretty much
considering those were the relevant fights this tier
earnest quest
I understand that dsj. Thanks but does that amount of cheesing really skew the results by that much? Outlaw is ahead of ass by quite abit.
I understand roguewarlock but I guess I was referring to parsing in general as compared to fights that matter. haha. Thanks tho
normal spear
Yes, that skews the results by a mile imo
I agree with roguewarlock. If you look at each specific fight, sin is usually more suitable
earnest quest
The only reason I can think of that makes outlaw undesirable is rtb buff which is just too random but by we are talking about the best parses out of all the classes, I'm sure that will be able to normalise things somwhat
Ok again I understand but to go outright and claim that ass is the go to spec seems a little of a stretch?
earnest quest
Sorry if this is seen as arguing but I'm not 😃 Just trying to udnerstand
It seems to me like all the specs are pretty close with ass having a slight edge that would be my assessment
yes no?
normal spear
Dont look at overall damage only, easily cheesable
earnest quest
ok
earnest quest
even if normalised score is the metric? It still seems like all 3 specs are very close
and ass should not be the go to spec
normal spear
One ks into full raid adds on mother - outlaw will come on top by a mile. Leaving adds alive during last intermission on vectis - sub will blow the boss up
earnest quest
easier yes but go to seems abit of a stretch haha
true true
haha
but are raids doing that tho?
earnest quest
are the top parses doing that? If yes, then I agree cheesing is a huge issue
strange python
also
earnest quest
and many top parses not just a few
strange python
it was unarguably the go to for progress
for most bosses
which is the most relevant for most people
earnest quest
I understand roguwarlock
normal spear
Better padding doesnt equal better spec, but outlaw is a solid spec. Uldir just doesn't have massive aoe fights where pirate shines
earnest quest
yeah I agree 😃
normal spear
And 2-3 targets is perfect for sin
strange python
also is there any difference in difficulty between outlaw and assa
i guess rolling good
earnest quest
haha
I actually think out of all 3 specs, (I have tried outlaw and sub only), Sub seems easier once you get the hang of it but that could only be me
seems very annoying to keep rtb for buffs if you font get a good set
that takes focus away from your awareness
normal spear
Sub is the hardest of 3
earnest quest
For sub its just focusing on burst windows and making sure you are constantly on the boss to ensure cdr on your cds
I definitely feel like I'm the odd one out in thinking that sub is easier than outlaw lol
marble hemlock
nah
earnest quest
I've primarily played sub this whole expansion
marble hemlock
sub is very simplistic, its just that the managing of cooldowns is something you need to get used to at first
earnest quest
only lvled as outlaw for abit
marble hemlock
but mechanically speaking theres no difficulty, you have exactly 3 rotational abilities
earnest quest
I can see the challenge in sub in M+ when switching between 2+ adds rotation and st rotation and how much quicker the spec becomes in aoe
Sad that it seems sub is gonna lose its niche in 8.1..
@marble hemlock Hmm not really true. Rotationally yes, but when you add buttons that you need to press every 30s of so and how crucial every shd is, it ups the difficulty lvl quite abit
marble hemlock
its not more buttons though, is it
shd just replaces backstab
and you hit a shd/sod macro
earnest quest
I dont think you should ever macro sod and sd
marble hemlock
most people do
strange python
is amount of buttons a good metric for difficulty tho
marble hemlock
amount of rotational abilities is imo
warlock in tbc was very simple, because it had 1 rotational ability
marble hemlock
yes
strange python
yea when your spec is only shadowbolt its easy
earnest quest
Using just rotational abilities well only will not give you good dps
marble hemlock
but i wouldnt call any spec difficult to play that has 5seconds out of every 30 seconds where you actually need to be aware of what youre doing
and sub spends most of the other 25seconds just backstabbing/refreshing nightblade
thats not involved gameplay
earnest quest
haha I guess we can agree to disagree in that statement
Perhaps, I'm just need to get good so lol Could be a me issue
marble hemlock
obviously everyone has different opinions about what constitutes "difficulty" in terms of gameplay
earnest quest
yep
marble hemlock
having to maintain 1 debuff, while having 1 builder and 1 spender outside of nightblade just seems.... boring
assa isnt much better
mind you
earnest quest
St rotation is easy in general for all classes but M+ is where I feel things get more tricky cause of your aoe rotation which can change quite abit
normal spear
Are there difficult specs?
marble hemlock
well, subs aoe rotational gameplay is very simple tho
strange python
like wotlk ret had like 7 rotational spells i think
and i doubt anyone considered it hard
marble hemlock
on singletarget most specs can be played on a controller with 4 buttons now, so no
earnest quest
Then I need to get good :/
marble hemlock
dont think any are hard
strange python
ya
marble hemlock
on aoe? theres definitely a huge change in difficulty for some specs, and not for others
some specs do the same they already did
some specs have minor changes to their rotation (sub for example)
and some specs gameplay changes entirely (assa for example)
echo night
@marble hemlock would u say that Assass is still going to be meta for M+ in 8.1?
Im really interrested in how the new fok trait will pan out with more ilvl etc. Would love to see assass put outlaw in its place on aoe aswell :p
spice surge
It already does in high keys
dense blaze
They'd have to like.. remove venemous wounds to make mut not meta in M+
dense blaze
Removing venemous wounds would have a bit larger on an impact don't you think
That's just a pipe dream though that'd be senseless
nimble tartan
new meta 1 echo 2ss for pug keys to chad on aoe and st
scarlet escarp
my haste is at 18% at 365 and I feel like I need more
drifting elbow
sure its an impact but SS is the one who does most dmg in period of 1min pack life spans
marble hemlock
@echo night if the combo nerf goes through
then assa is gonna be the go-to for almost every dungeon, ye
drifting elbow
well it was already 100% to go spec for casuals
dense blaze
bUt tHe St BuRsT
drifting elbow
only real change is that top runners that usually has big pack pulls cannot use sub spec
scarlet escarp
call me crazy but I almost feel like im better in aoe situations than I am ST
lone junco
Because you can't mess up ggg Ct.
echo night
@marble hemlock what u mean combo nerf?
marble hemlock
current PTR patch doesnt have shuriken combo for sub anymore
so its gonna take a ~15% hit on its overall damage for m+
not even that much
sage narwhal
So scent of blood > Blightborne infusion for m+ even if blightborne sims higher?
lone junco
Blight is crit right?
blissful saddle
Yeh
sage narwhal
Yeah it's crit
I have one SS, and then I can choose between another SS or Blightborne
Blightborne sims higher, but I don't see anyone running it
Oh wait I wrote wrong in my first question, it's SS or blightborne, not scent of blood
lone junco
What fight model are you simming?
sage narwhal
That might be the issue, I'm not sure whats the best way to sim for m+
Just been doing hecticaddcleave
normal spear
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
normal spear
use this
sage narwhal
Thanks!
cunning fiber
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
haughty forge
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
late moat
thoughts on new alchemy trinket ?
twilit elk
is the goal as sin, to make sure that i keep envenom up as much as possible? So say i have Garotte and Rupture on target. Then i generate 4 CP, envenom. then i mutilate get lucky now i have 5 CP. Do i wait till the envenom buff is low and pool energy then envenom. Or do i ijust spam it as i get it.
quasi pewter
wait until elaborate planning has 0,1s left and then envenom if ur not gonna cap energy
velvet kernel
tbh most of the time now you dont really have to think about it i would say its only if you want to really min max
normal spear
but EP is not the highest priority, or am I wrong?
hollow stone
Its not the highest, i guess. Probably bleeds, vendetta, etc. But like michee said, it is an important part of the spec
normal spear
maximizing TB windows is much more important. and since EP utilization is just dumping/spamming envenoms, it can lead to energy problems
hollow stone
Optimizing ep leads to optimizing ev buff too
Regardless of "what's more important", ep is important to use properly
marble hemlock
since envenom pandemics, and EP doesnt, clipping EP will automatically lead to good envenom uptimes
and yes, other stuff has priority, i.e. getting 3 envenoms into TB
opaque grotto
EP really has the most priority during vendetta, other than that it’s kinda hard to sustain for a long time
opaque grotto
Like you could ignore EP outside of vendetta/exsang/TP and it would barely be a loss
TB*
marble hemlock
other than that, try to clip EP when you have the energy, if you dont, just pool before you use your next finishers so you can clip on the subsequent envenoms again once or twice
opaque grotto
But yeah if you want to truly min/max do what seliathan says
normal spear
outside of TB do you use envenom asap for the buff or pool energy?
errant mauve
EP windows? like sexual healing
strange python
Elaborate Planning
normal spear
i cannot always fit envs into EP. i'm talking about situations at low energy, so i should prob pool
strange python
yes
placid dawn
can i use the m+ script on the top gear sim or does it have to be advanced?
untold cargo
Does crimson tempest pandemic?
opaque grotto
of course
untold cargo
word so if im energy flush i just basically spam it at 5 CP
ill always have to go redot b4 i get through a couple
spark grail
guys i have a 370 glad badge, spyglass, gatecallers boon and a loaded dice, which combo is best for m+ in you guys opinions?
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
spark grail
ok cheers, alot of my rogue freinds is saying simming like that makes crit mastery bis for assa
opaque grotto
in what dungeon are you hitting 3 targets for 2 minutes
onyx rock
Or... dont sim for m+.
opaque grotto
yea haste loses value in aoe
spark grail
^^ this is what im saying simming for m+ sucks man
untold cargo
its an average
onyx rock
loaded dice + spyglass/gatecallers boon in my opinion. I would go spyglass over gatecallers boon.
untold cargo
between boss fights and 5 packs, bedt i can come up wth
opaque grotto
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
spark grail
@onyx rock that is what i normally prefer
@onyx rock would you use the 370 glad badge over boon at any point even in patchwork like mother or taloc?
untold cargo
isn't overcharger pretty good now
hollow stone
I would likely run dice n spyglass
onyx rock
In patchwork you need to sim. If you macro it to vendetta it can be a very strong trinket.
hollow stone
I find them both very strong for m+ and personal pref puts them over gcb (for m+)
spark grail
i personally hate boon and dont feel the power of it when i use it
yeh i burst for like 32k with glad badge and that was when it was 350
opaque grotto
gcb is very powerful
untold cargo
isnt gcb better for exsan
hollow stone
Better than it is with tb. But its still extremely strong for tb too
opaque grotto
even with tb it's very good
spice surge
Yes its the best trinket for exsang and "only" one of the best trinkets with tb
untold cargo
construct overcharger sims really well now
hollow stone
Yea. The buff they did made it way better
untold cargo
especially since 385 is easy to get
hollow stone
Thank god, my 390 socketed overcharger was rotting in my bags pre-buff
spark grail
yeh ofc if i have like a 390 overcharger thats better than them all
untold cargo
you never want to take TB with CT right
it only synergizes with PB
and env
so CT is always with exsang
spice surge
CT vs PB isnt tied to other talents at all
spice surge
Sure pb does slightly more damage if it proccs during tb, but its not very significant. And you dont care about using exsang on CT
untold cargo
But TB increases poison damage so if you are in cleave with CT what does it even do
spice surge
PB is for low target counts and CT for high target counts
?
both exsang and tb are st
untold cargo
but exsang atleast feeds you energy for cleave
so if you run TB with CT you just dont use it at all unless theres like 1 random mob with high hp left
or a boss fight obv
spark grail
i cant stand using CT always have more consistency with PB but i'm used to PB maybe
spark grail
yeh PB sucks this week for sure, just feels so much more satisfying when you get a fat PB in 3 mobs
untold cargo
in tb window
kreygasm
@spice surge so basically you ignore Exsang and TB in 3+ when running CT
not worth the energy vs just spamming CT
dark crag
Ct spam at 5+ targets?
untold cargo
damn it really takes 5 to pay off
strange python
Spam it when the initial damage is more than envenom
fleet acorn
Guys, what do you think of running the d-e spyglass/dice instead of gcb/dice on high m+ this week , to have a high crit and not to be tied to one place ? Or having a on-demand trinket is necessary? I run with exsg build and 2 ss, if it's matters
High m+ for me is 14-15+ )
fleet acorn
All 380
fleet acorn
Seen it , but I feel like having to stick to one place kinda diminishes the benefits from gcb
And that's why I ask
Small area
strange python
GCB is still strong even if u can only use exsang while in the buff
fleet acorn
I don't want to have a trinket and not use it obviously
Oh, ok
Just for snapshot
Thx guys
untold cargo
where can i find good info on snapshotting and how haste affects dots
cant find it anywhere
spice surge
Haste affects dots the same way for every class
The only thing that snapshots stats is the haste when you exsang (because speeding up the ticks of a dynamic dot wasnt something they wanted for some reason)
untold cargo
the spyglass with the active or passive, bc the passive seems doo doo for cleave
the one from siege.
spice surge
The passive one
Why would it seem bad? Attacking the same target 5 times is done superfast
Its basicly just a crit procc
untold cargo
i dunno bc it procs randomly
what if it procs on a low hp mob
why not take overcharger, consistent high agi and haste
untold cargo
thats true
spice surge
and haste is bad for aoe
spice surge
The debuff is fairly irrelevant, you get the full stacks so fast anyway
Just think of it as an agi stat stick with a crit proc
alpine rain
Are there any special options to select when trying to sim Exang with Raidbots?
lethal iris
What's the word on prepots? Does anyone use bursting blood? Or just agi
normal spear
never saw anyone use bursting blood, so apparently it's not an option
what do you mean "special options for exs"?
azure bronze
Did they change Subterfuge talent on PTR for sin? When I vanish during combat, I don't get the subterfuge buff and garrote goes straight to a 6 sec cd . I do get 3 cp from SS trait 
strange python
Possibly a bug?
sick cradle
Can you cloak the Bursting Boil on mythic G'huun?
lethal heart
no
you just stop taking damage for duration of cloak
debuff is still there
cant pre cloak that either
sick cradle
aight, thanks
azure bronze
@strange python Yeah tested it out for sub aswell. Seems that Vanish isn't activating Subterfuge atm =/.
marble hemlock
regarding spyglass, every fok hit grants a stack, so does CT or autoattacks
you basically get the 5stacks in a matter of a few seconds
quaint flare
twilit elk
Can you guys give me a run down of what you do on a typical pull on m+ 10 key. With 3+ targets. 3-4 garottes then tempest? Then ruptured in between for energy? Then spam fok to build cp
?
cosmic pier
3x garrote, rupture (tempest first if adds will die fast), then tempest, 2x more rupture
maintain ruptures and tempest, throw out a garrote when if off cd if it doesnt eat into your other priorities
and yes, fok to build cp. always cast finishers at 4+, unless the target is dying soon (<10 secs)
lethal heart
after 3x garrote if specced into Ct your 1st finisher should always be CT
dark crag
my gear and azerite pieces are so over the place, a combi of haste/crit/mastery gems/enchants sims best
1 mastery gem, 1 haste gem, crit/haste ring enchants
surreal lodge
hey friends whats the most accurate-ish way to sim for m+?
dense quest
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
surreal lodge
ty didnt know that command
cobalt gyro
what t alents do you guys run for mythrax mythic, just regular tb/bomb?
marble hemlock
exsang
living weapon spawns every minute, so you have exsang+GC up for every single one
vendetta also lines up pretty well with pull, 1st nraqi, 4t add, 6th add (where you usually pop BL)
so you have vanish+vendetta for those to get big damage on the adds that need to die
strange python
Huh?
untold cargo
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
zealous bane
hey guys, i'm new to sin rogue and have some questions. When we have multiple mobs in mythic plus, do i have to apply rupture to all of them? same for garrote and envenom?
or do those apply on their own
with fan of knives
sturdy python
Raidbots uses simc
You have to apply bleeds yourself
Guide and the video in pins will explain it thoroughly
sturdy python
It's at the very top, m+ guide
untold cargo
grats
empty tide
388 equipped now POGGERS
untold cargo
so confused on cleave with CT, i feel like im putting up too many bleeds and i have too much energy to spend, also ravenholdt says to envenom priority target and only refresh CT with 2 seconds left on its bleed
cleave is nutty on sin
untold cargo
SoB?
quasi ledge
Scent of Blood
untold cargo
ahhh
feels like non SS garrote isnt even worth applying
if you can just rupture enough energy, garrote takes a GCD and its damage is meh if you are doing 25+k dps
quasi ledge
It isn't
quasi ledge
You can't just follow a guide for everything. It's going to depend on your haste/crit levels, length of the pull, how many mobs are pulled and flat out RNG
untold cargo
true
tribal sand
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
prisma monolithBOT
Do my azerite traits stack?
The damage part of azerite Stacks.
Other components can be assumed to not stack however with some exceptions and limitations.
You can check https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/1t-t22-assassination for estimations.
tribal sand
340 one from myuthic dungeon
tribal sand
yea
low palm
do you guys think for M Uldir it's better to have 2xSS or 1xDD+1xSS?
nimble tartan
I havent used an ss in raid in a while. I'm running archive double dose and blighted crit buff thing
vapid moth
I use it. but i have no choice
velvet kernel
fleet whale
why is that so strange
fleet whale
maybe he likes the guranteed 5 cp rupture, and the mut after it is to build more cps to enter into his TB/vendetta window i guess
normal spear
there's a set opener for this build
normal spear
he loses buffed garrote total time
quasi ledge
I mean, it's not a bad log either. Depending on how/when you swap rooms and do the opener correctly then it'll probably improve
quasi ledge
Did you read what i wrote?
vapid moth
Why should I garrote more than once in vanish?
velvet kernel
so its longer
normal spear
coz pandemic
quasi ledge
Extend the buffed one to max
normal spear
it lasts longer
vapid moth
Im already making use of pandemic though. The boss was garrote before
velvet kernel
and
there is no harm
and it builds cp
its 3 guaranteed cp instead of a mutilate
which might just be 2
vapid moth
Most of the time I cant make use of the third one though
vapid moth
Third cp
velvet kernel
why?
normal spear
this is not an "opinion thing", you're not doing an optimal opener and vanish usage
velvet kernel
^^
normal spear
the end.
quasi ledge
I mean, without Exang, if he's got Garrote already up when he Vanishes it's a waste Garroting twice
velvet kernel
ez way to find this out
vapid moth
I really dont see the point in using garrote twice on the vanish. Its already at max duration if you made use of pandemic
normal spear
wait what? how is it max duration if you use it once?
velvet kernel
it will never be unless he times it perfectly
quasi ledge
If it's his 2nd Vanish, Garrote will already be on the target unless it lines up "perfectly" and runs out just before
vapid moth
If you already have a garrote up and you use another one with pandemic it should be max duration
normal spear
your empowered overwrites old garrote
vapid moth
I'm not opinionating I'm asking for a fucking explanation
normal spear
it doesn't add up
civic palm
oi chill
The API is going to cast G G after Vanish outside of the opener because Garrote otherwise would not be at maximum duration.
velvet kernel
the api casts G envenom G
not gg
well i guess thats cause it mutilates before vanish
vapid moth
So by garrote twice you meant garrote, evenom garrote?
vapid moth
So when you vanish and garrote even if you still had time on the old garrote the new one will be 18 seconds?
civic palm
be more specific, otherwise you get misunderstandings.
vapid moth
Yes pls
quasi ledge
No, as long as it had ~5 seconds left on it it'll be 18 seconds + time left
icy ember
so does that bug w/shrouded suffocation still exist? where you cant refresh it until it fades
velvet kernel
or just take the fact that its better
civic palm
@icy ember No.
velvet kernel
lol
icy ember
so it won't break anything if i refresh a garrote before it fades
normal spear
no, you're safe)
vapid moth
What does overwrite mean. Cause from what I understood before it just had to do with damage not timers
civic palm
The bug prior removed empowerments from EMPOWERED garrotes when you Garroted a fourth target or when you were outside of an EMPOWERMENT window.
quasi ledge
It'll overwrite the "normal" Garrote if it's already up, make it empowered, and extend the duration if there was any left
icy ember
so now it doesn't remove the EMPOWERED part of the garrote, and will continue ticking the rest of its 5-12 seconds or whatever
civic palm
So long you do not cast a normal garrote on a target with an empowered garrote.
All good 👌
vapid moth
So we basically garrote twice for an extra second of buffed garrote
civic palm
Should be ~5 seconds.
quasi ledge
On the opener you get an extra 5 seconds
strange python
hes on about doing it with pandemic garrote from unbuffed one
normal spear
the thing is: you use your first vanish when your initial empowered garrote fades out. you G-G to make garrote 23 secs long. the next time you use vanish when it's off CD. your empowered garrote will overwrite you normal garrote (and be 18 secs), and then you use it 2nd time (23 secs)
velvet kernel
^^
normal spear
normal and empowered garrotes don't add up. never
vapid moth
Alright
strange python
really?
normal spear
there is no pandemic between them
vapid moth
Ty now I get it
civic palm
mmm
strange python
my timer says there is
quasi ledge
Yeah, that's completely wrong
strange python
lmfao
civic palm
Empowering Garrote doesn't modify it's spellID, there no reason it should not take the timer...
So...
BE SPECIFIC
strange python
@normal spear clap
dense blaze
Are we saying that if I cast garrote after vanish on a target with regular garrote the timer won't add up for 23 secs for empowered?
lmfao
velvet kernel
to get max uptime on empowerment
normal spear
yes, i checked that part. i was completely wrong
civic palm
uhhuh
strange python
i love how you were so sure of yourself
velvet kernel
lol
strange python
with the .never.
civic palm
All being said you shouldn't even be overwriting Empowered Garrotes with a normal one, for any amount of time.
quasi ledge
That's not the issue we were discussing. It's when a "normal" Garrote is already up, Vanish/Vendetta come back up and you Vanish Garrote
civic palm
unless you are leaving the target and the garrote will fade before you return
quasi ledge
Kinda pointless Garroting twice as the 2nd won't add any duration and will waste at least 1 combo point
dense blaze
Your first reaction is that the API does it because empowerd wouldn't stack on normal timer?
civic palm
The API would have been written in a way that they tested not doing the second Garrote on a target with a rolling Garrote already.
quasi ledge
Ok? And you were agreeing with dsj 5 minutes ago
civic palm
As this double garrote business was brought up weeks into the expansion.
velvet kernel
@dense blaze you talking to me ? 😄
dense blaze
Who are you
strange python
@normal spear definitely correct
normal spear
i was wrong about only 1 part: i didn't know about garrotes sharing pandemic and should have checked it before giving an advice
velvet kernel
dont listen to him
normal spear
but what i said about opener and 1st vanish is true
tribal marlin
Last time I checked APL only do 1 garrote (overwriting a normal garrote) after vanish
something like Vanish ->garrote -> Vendetta -> rupture -> exsang
spice surge
Doing 1vs2 garrote from vanish doesn't matter as long as you get a full garrote of it
spice surge
I mean yes it's better to only do one
But the difference is so minor and people fuck it up so its better to say do 2
tribal marlin
yes sure
especially if you do like g -> finisher -> g you get 1 more tick and don't waste 3cp so
civic palm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
acoustic atlas
For multi target M+ is there a break point or something for haste when I can just start dumping everything else into mastery?
wary anchor
Any good tricks macro?
sacred flint
i just do hover or focus
worn cloak
[@mouseover][@focus]
flint swift
Yeah I just do focus for tricks
strange python
thx for tip for assin
tribal marlin
Hey ! Is someone can help me ? I want to know if it is possible to display stat weight from an advanced simulation on raidbot
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
tribal marlin
ok I guess i'll try this 😄
twilit elk
Is askmrrobot broken when it comes to BiS lists?
nimble tartan
its broken in regards to everything kkona
civic palm
-kkona
twilit elk
What does double garrote do from stealth?
I play TB rite now but I’d like to learn ins and outs of exang
strange python
You get the maximum duration out of it with pandemic
twilit elk
So the guide on Ravenholdt that says garrote rupture garrote is ideal to start a fight. Then rebuild combos to put full rupture up with vendetta
And basically vanish is just used to keep up empowered garrote. So use it on cd
I’m rather new to playing rogue so just trying to get the quirks to improve down
untold cargo
do you guys ever use envenom in cleave
if you have CT
im just not getting this shit
sturdy python
Depends how many targets
sturdy python
Then if rups and CT is up youd envenom
untold cargo
but how is that more dps than just spamming CT
its driving me nuts
4 x 21% attack power > 80% attack power
sturdy python
Spamming CT is only a dps gain if the initial damage is more than envenoms
Envenom also increases poison damage and proc chance
untold cargo
thats only like 500 damage if it applicates
sturdy python
To all 4 targets?
untold cargo
500 per
sturdy python
Yes, thats a lot
pretty sure 5 targets is when you spam CT, not 100 on that though
sturdy python
Also note envenom is going to help bring down a prio mob faster
untold cargo
yea thats for sure
dark crag
If the target count is almost equal with ct and envenom you can ct while the envenom buff is running
untold cargo
good point
dark crag
In the end we have to many factors, direct dmg, poison applications, fok crits
Does ct bleed trigger venomous wounds? I know the bleed from kidney does but ct would be too op
untold cargo
just realizing you have to do atleast 2 FoK to get 4/5 combo points
which makes envenom window even stronger
dark crag
That change comes with 8.2 when sub gets removed
dark crag
I mean sub becomes the shadowhunter range spec
untold cargo
im actually tempted to write some kind of equation for this cleave shit
all the variables are defined, would just have to plug in the # of targets
dark crag
What if the poisons would have procced even without envenom buff?
glass plank
Is it better to have have a 345 with SS or a 375 with Archive, with that 345 i got my 3rd SS
sturdy python
Probably archive. Absolutely if we are talking about raid
Can sim this to maybe confirm
prisma monolithBOT
Dungeon Fight script: fight_style=DungeonSlice
If you want to get stat weights add this additional ```calculate_scale_factors="1"
scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste,weapon_dps,weapon_offhand_dps"```
How to use it(video):https://streamable.com/guxh4.
sturdy python
!m+
bleak spoke
do we run ct in dungeons over poison bomb
untold cargo
depends is what i hear
this weak since tanks are kiting alot poison bomb sucks bc nothing ever stands in it
week*
bleak spoke
will ct do more in a big aoe pull?
untold cargo
then it depends how long they live
so in a super high key yes bc of the dot
if the mobs die fast PB will be better bc it does its damage over 2 seconds not 12
so its a factor of if they are standing in the PB and how long they will live
bleak spoke
ite thanks 😃
primal gazelle
the only dungeon id take PB is on kingsrest on tyrannical weeks but thats it
untold cargo
so if anyone is interested i made a formula for the whole envenom vs ct during cleave thing
at 5+ targets it becomes exponentially worse to use envenom over crimson tempest
even if you just refreshed CT
civic palm
Yep.
untold cargo
so yea i guess the final answer is use CT on 2+ targets if they will live long enough for the bleed, and only refresh CT early if there are atleast 5 targets, otherwise envenom.
untold cargo
yea no scent for me atleast
untold cargo
still trying to find out why exsanguinate is better in any situation
wont sim higher for me in any scenario
civic palm
with or without a Galecallers?
untold cargo
no galecallers yet
civic palm
_>" well
It's also good when cheesing as bosses tend to not last very long and the phatter burst you can generate the better.
Even without a Galecallers.
untold cargo
trying to figure out my m+ cleave
somehow TB sims better by 3%
dont even know how the sim is using it
its not like ill be spamming envenoms
sturdy python
Look at the APL, it might be spamming envenoms
untold cargo
im a new player anyway 😄
turning into a crazy min maxer fast
interesting its only avging 3.5 envenoms per 2 minutes
but almost 5 toxic blades
neat haven
am i crazy for thinking of using wound poison on fetid?
sturdy python
From what others have said it doesnt work
neat haven
dang