whats the most efficient way to play with DD? the stats of my damagemeter for DD arent that good
#assassination
strong sundial
native meadow
Does anyone know when I should prioritize crimson tempest over more ruptures on adds
in m+ that is
slender sandal
Depends on the add count
native meadow
I have one scent of blood trait
frosty violet
I prioritize Crimson Tempest DoT over Rupture on 3 targets.
Crimson Tempest does 21.6% AP immediately and an additional 54% AP over 12 seconds for a total of 75.6% AP Damage per Execute (DPE).
Rupture does 150.4% AP over 24 seconds.
They are roughly equal in damage on 2 targets, however Rupture gives Venomous Wounds and Scent of Blood (if you have the trait), so I go with Crimson Tempest over Rupture on 3 targets.
strange python
Well you're doing it wrong then
You don't CT if you don't have all dots on 3 targets
native meadow
So you're saying CT untill you've dotted everything up
strange python
On 3 targets
strange python
gar - gar -gar - rup - exs - gar - fok to 5cp and CT
frosty violet
Sim it my friends. The simulator exists to answer these questions.
native meadow
@frosty violet Seems complicated to sim, might as well ask players with experience
frosty violet
You have to mod the APL mate
strange python
All dots before applying CT on 3 targets
If you don't do that, you're gonna have low energy regen
frosty violet
Sim it, don't just guess. You will have 3x Garrote giving you energy. Could be enough, could not be.
strange python
I just did
frosty violet
Did you update the APL to use CT first?
strange python
????
frosty violet
SimC uses a predefined set of instructions, it can only sim your character one way following a blueprint. The APL is that set of instructions. When you have questions on the "how" of playing (i.e. CT or Rupture on 3 targets) you have to make two APLs, one that uses CT first and one that uses Rupture first.
The whole point is to compare styles of play.
Kind of like you would change your gear to compare Azerite traits or trinkets
You change your APL to compare playstyle.
I've already done my simming and in my case, the best opener is G-G-G-CT-FoK-FoK-Rupture.
If you want to find your best opener, then actually sim it
marsh bloom
how to edit apl?
frosty violet
It's part of the profile SimC loads by default when you load in your character
west cove
Archive sims higher that SS, haven’t checked if it’s also classing array. I’m more concerned with M+. Raid damage is fine
lone junco
Exang
marsh bloom
@frosty violet what do you do
frosty violet
Exsang is better Mythic+ in my case, more energy regen and burst, not to mention TB is hard to take full advantage of in AoE.
That said, I play TB sometimes anyways when I want to be lazy.
lone junco
If you just dinged, then hyper simming for 0.05% dps gains won't matter. Read the guide
marsh bloom
just dinged 368
369*
can you read?
does everyone just ignore the number at the end of my name?
lone junco
frosty violet
LOL
marsh bloom
on my screen it shows the number
stark stag
@marsh bloom don't worry bruh
marsh bloom
lmao
lone junco
On phone. And I don't care what you do. Read the guide. Or don't.
frosty violet
So use either, they are close enough that your personal skill matters far more.
marsh bloom
when exsg is back up
lone junco
It matter what the pull size is.
lone junco
Ugh.
lone junco
In m+ I use it on pull. And on cd for bosses.
But at the end of a trash pack leaves you low for the next pack.
marsh bloom
Should my haste be higher if i'm using exsg
cause it's telling me to get like 15% haste lol
lone junco
Your haste should be higher if you are playing assassin.
Why are you 368 with less that 15%
lone junco
368 sim 15.0?
slim olive
8% haste ? yikes
marsh bloom
in M+ I sim like 24k I think
marsh bloom
365 I sim 15k
lone junco
Haste value is low for m+ because of FOK gen wants crit.
marsh bloom
yea i know
but it goes way up when I use exsg
in the apl it uses it way late too lol
like 2 CT's then it tells me to exsg lol
strange python
haste value is low for m+
lone junco
I'm 365 raid I'm like 15.8k
strange python
Its best to play Exsg + Galecaller
marsh bloom
I wish I could use exsg
but I have a 355 galecallers and a 365 dice
exsg is like a 500dps loss lol
strange python
Do you have any SS pieces?
marsh bloom
yes lol
lone junco
Haste is good for st prio and bosses but less value than crit in aoe.
marsh bloom
I checked my gear it's still
strange python
Specced into subterfuge?
marsh bloom
yep
lone junco
What sim are you referring to. For m+
marsh bloom
literally I am not allowed to use exsg
lone junco
No one wants to see your gear.
marsh bloom
if I wanna deal good damage
lone junco
That's wrong
marsh bloom
not according to my sims....
lone junco
Literally not allowed means someone hits you with a stick.
slim olive
Exe and TB doesnt even matter that much in M+ packs
marsh bloom
"to deal good damage"
lone junco
Your sim is wrong and
marsh bloom
raidbots is wrong?
slim olive
Whatever you're doing is wrong
marsh bloom
6minute fight patchwerk
strange python
why 6 tho
frosty violet
6 minute?
slim olive
6min?
lone junco
What fucking fight do you think is good for m+
pearl meteor
O.o
slim olive
Ok
strange python
m+ bosses take no longer than 2 minutes under like 12-13 keys
lone junco
Ok. I'm out. This is troll level disrespect.
slim olive
Soo an attempt to sim M+ packs is 6targets 40 seconds. Maybe more depending on key.
marsh bloom
Well michee was talking about exsg+galecaller is best exsg
so I was talking about ST wiht her
and you guys thought I was talking about M+ lol
strange python
I was talking m+ though
pearl meteor
Every time m+ get brought up in this channel i jus end up reading and face palming a lot
strange python
If you're running low haste, exsang with galecaller is your best combo
marsh bloom
not being allowd to run exsg in ST
slim olive
Whats your ST sim?
marsh bloom
well like 4 days
slim olive
Meh if you've got 8% haste you're gonna lack on bosses in M+ everytime
strange python
But trash packs
small island
how much are u guys focusing on keeping envenom buff and EP up?
pearl meteor
I mean ppl dropping to 8% are masochists 🤷♀️
pearl meteor
Doing any sort of high key will b aids
pearl meteor
Ur playing wrong
slim olive
Yeah coz you need haste for Exe
frosty violet
I run TB with high haste... /yolo
pearl meteor
Ok what r u simming for m+
frosty violet
I would go 6 targets 40 seconds, no bloodlust no potion
slim olive
Crit Mast #1 in M+ packs - Haste #1 in boss fights.
frosty violet
unless you do low keys with a slow tank, then 4 targets
slim olive
Haste loses A LOT of value in multi target sims
marsh bloom
people are telling me dropping below 8% haste is yikes
slim olive
it is
slim olive
Because you're gonna be useless for bosses or 1 target pulls
marsh bloom
I can barely get into +8s cause of my low M+ score but I outdamage everyone in +10s lol
pearl meteor
Lol.. u just answered so many questions
small island
i got 9% haste and i do fine in 13-14 keys
pearl meteor
“Fine” also i dont consider 13-14 “high” keys
Bosses shld still die in 2mins or less at that lvl
strange python
what?
strange python
13-14 are not high?
small island
ye 13-14 isnt high
marsh bloom
I wanna see whats high....
frosty violet
btw, "high" is relative. The point is that Mythic+ is difficult compared to your gear's power.
pearl meteor
R u pugging
frosty violet
Week 1 of M+, high was +10
slim olive
Meh on a non aids affix unlike this week 13-14 is avg
frosty violet
it's a moving target based on how geared you are
pearl meteor
Mhm it depends if ur pugging or pushing witha grp as well.
slim olive
This week is aids
marsh bloom
I only pug
slim olive
Get you 10 done and go to sleep wake up on tuesday
pearl meteor
Not talking bout ur 8s
marsh bloom
nobody will accept me in 10s
i'm talking about 10's
Cant' find a healer
and I'm never accepted into a group cause there are some dungoens I just don't like doing lol
and some I haven't unlocked
slim olive
Whats your char name and server?
marsh bloom
kiilani
literally the only kiilani pretty sure
not doign temple
and king srest and siege haven't unlocked
slim olive
Meh this week is aids i dont blame anyone for avoiding M+
pearl meteor
What
pearl meteor
KR is a quest line that takes 10m
slim olive
lol
pearl meteor
Assuming u lvld through quests 🤷♀️
marsh bloom
half of the gear is vers
sacred zenith
And honorbound rep is ez
slim olive
LOL
pearl meteor
Doesnt matter what gear is lol
pearl meteor
U need it for score if ur gonna pug
slim olive
But you cant complain about not getting into groups when you're avoiding doing dungeons
keen hound
I have a love hate relationship with io
slim olive
Bruh you have 17% haste in your armory o.O
pearl meteor
He said he had higher for st/raid set or w/e
pearl meteor
slim olive
yeah if you have any SS traits for shoulders or head then sure
marsh bloom
I use 370 chest SS
marsh bloom
yea someone told me to resim ST
slim olive
Ah
pearl meteor
6
frosty violet
I would go 6 targets 40 seconds, no bloodlust no potion
slim olive
You dont even need to sim it
change your shoulders to the SS shoulders you have I guess the helm is fine since it looks like you dont have anything else.
Run subt and exe
coral ivy
would you break your 3x ss combo on gear for 30 ilvls? stuck with 340 shoulders because of the trait. Just got some 370s with thunderous blast/poisoned wire. for m+
pearl meteor
Depends on trait but that no
slim olive
Meh those rings are fine imo
marsh bloom
they're both haste
slim olive
Thats fine
pearl meteor
Lol
marsh bloom
not for my sims :/
slim olive
SIMS dont always mean the truth
pearl meteor
Lol
pearl meteor
Exs better
slim olive
ok
that ring looks fine since you still have some haste from the other ring
plus galecallers
Exe will help with synergy
marsh bloom
resimming for exsg
pearl meteor
Dont bother
marsh bloom
yee
pearl meteor
At end of day ur set depends on ur comp
pearl meteor
If ur bringing a sin rogue for aoe then thats a big yikes from me
pearl meteor
Mhm
pearl meteor
Lmao
slim olive
Sin rogues are good at both
but if you go full AOE you lose a little on ST
thats why you still want haste
Kill you gotta remember
Sims are perfect scenario perfect playstyle
frosty violet
I go mainly haste for M+ and balance Crit/Mastery. Just feels the best to me
marsh bloom
When I was running TB
I was dealing decent damage imo
second I switched to exsg in ST it was like
downhill lmao
pearl meteor
Ideally u drop some haste death but ye p good
frosty violet
I like not having to change my set all around to go raid or for tyrannical
slim olive
yeah i drop down to 16% haste with M+ rings
slim olive
But to finalise things get that SS trait on your shoulders. Remember going more Crit Mast you will lose a lot damage on 1 target fights.
lone junco
Overall it's not "a lot" tbh. St itemization differences are still in the 5% range.
marsh bloom
been running ss on shoulders
slim olive
Ye all depends on keys and Affixes
pearl meteor
Depends on dungeon
slim olive
^
lone junco
I use dice and GC. Fathoms is garbage in aoe and GC helps keep haste high enough for prio st. While stacking crit for aoe.
pearl meteor
Ehy same for most.
lone junco
We aren't going to magically become best st ever. Our m+ value is SS on 3-5t and vendetta exang on st.
And the Ct sustain in big pulls.
lone junco
Pretty sure seli is like 34crit 5haste with dice and GC. I would love that kind of crit. Just not there yet.
pearl meteor
🤷♀️
marsh bloom
Fathoms is shit in aoe?
pearl meteor
Yes o.o
jaunty ginkgo
lol just realised you can restealth after killing an infested mob in m+
then 2x cs
slim olive
yeah its a tight window though
jaunty ginkgo
yeah spamming seems to work for me
slim olive
haha 😄
pearl meteor
No
slim olive
one of them you have to do complete story and 1 is war campaign
idk which though
But its account wide if you have it on 1 char
marsh bloom
honorbound exalted?
pearl meteor
No
slim olive
7k in to revered i think
pearl meteor
Ye somethin like that
solar lily
How long do you guys tend to be pooling energy? I'm kinda used to just spam everything but has seen that spamming as assassination aint the best thing to do.. xd
marsh bloom
guess i'm goin on my dk on alliance to finish up the rest of the questilne lol
pearl meteor
Doesnt alliance not unlock for horde
slim olive
lol
pearl meteor
Cuz it’s reversed
marsh bloom
guess i'll get the honorbound rep on my dk then too
lol
We just wanted to clarify that, once you unlock one of these dungeons with a character, it will now remain unlocked for any character of any faction within the same account!
i'm still fucked though with the honorbound lol
pearl meteor
I mean it doesnt take long at all to get the rep
thin ingot
w8
pearl meteor
Lmao
marsh bloom
we can really only do all the wq's in the opposing factions areas to get honorbound rep right?
spice surge
Yeah that and weekly island cap
pearl meteor
Sim
ornate mantle
allright thanks
slim olive
@ornate mantle for what scenario
slim olive
raid depends on fight and gear but its between Master Assassin and TB or Exe and Subt
Best to sim regarding Raid
ornate mantle
im talking about traits not talents
slim olive
Yeah archive is needed for the haste buff
then it just depends on your other gear and ilvl
SS, DD, Twist and Dagger are good
but always depends on ilvl
jaunty ginkgo
@solar lily you should pool to keep maximum uptime on elaborate planning as well as conserve energy before a burst window i.e. with vendetta or adds
ornate mantle
ok thanks
frosty violet
I tried simming it with and without pooling, the difference is marginal. Perfect planning with a long period of partial pooling gives you like 1% more DPS. The issue with pooling as most people do it is that it leads to Elaborate Planning downtime before a burst, which makes you lose more damage than you gain.
So basically, pool but don't pool so hard you stop doing anything
slim olive
its always about thinking ahead
haughty flame
guys i just replaced my 370 SS chest with a 370 DD
just hating the new play style
aswell as when doing mythic u
i dno wut to do
.<
strange python
Why would u switch to DD for m+
ornate mantle
use ss on mythic+
haughty flame
xD
frosty violet
wow
slim olive
It takes a little bit to get used to
Tell other classes that do better aoe to pick it up
pearl meteor
Eh lol
slim olive
😄
pearl meteor
Adds arnt rly different in uldir between the builds
Only diff is u dont vanish for gar/ss on them
pearl meteor
Play outlaw
slim olive
Mythic that is
pearl meteor
That also depends
slim olive
depends on comp
vestal wren
most figths work well on sub/sin, lower fights can also be played on outlaw
pearl meteor
Mhm
slim olive
4 rogues in my guild
pearl meteor
Sub is p juicy for ghuun tbh
vestal wren
vectis is probably the only fight you rly dont want to play sub
strange python
yup
pearl meteor
U had me fkd up when u said sin lmao
slim olive
Yeah
vestal wren
ye mb
strange python
Tried sub for vectis and the target switching was so shitty
Decided to stay sin for that
slim olive
Yeah target switching gets aids at points
vestal wren
ye vectis is probably a encounter that is rly bad for sub
pearl meteor
SS master race
slim olive
ye
vestal wren
i have horrible sin traits and sin is stimming within 50 dps from sub for me
balacing 👏
slim olive
What traits you using?
pearl meteor
For sub?
slim olive
ye
vestal wren
bits/archive/inev
slim olive
Ahh k
vestal wren
and sin i got 3 generic traits XD
slim olive
yikes
pearl meteor
Fuu how far into mythic r u
vestal wren
fairly low, i raid in a more casual guild with my gf
pearl meteor
Ah ok
slim olive
Aww so cute 😛
pearl meteor
Was gonna say get fetid chest n play exsang 4head
pearl meteor
Im just happy they made the masses only spawn in middle
Cuz on prog if that shit didnt it was basically a wipe
vestal wren
i mean in general
pearl meteor
Yea it is
vestal wren
i dont think the raid has 1 fight that is extremely difficult.
and you can outgear most fights quite well
pearl meteor
Fair enough
vestal wren
main issues are certain fights where melees are bad, given my guild like many others are melee heavy
slim olive
^^^^^^^
pearl meteor
For sure
slim olive
You just explained my guild lul
vestal wren
and with a more casual guild you dont have the luxury to have spare ranged dps or big roaster changes
pearl meteor
Yea i was in a casual guild b4 my current and i cldnt imagine doing fetid with more than like 5 or 6 melee
Myth is worse tbh lol
vestal wren
iirc even top guilds wont do the fight with many melees even if they outgear it somewhat
besides the magic rock cheese
pearl meteor
Lmao ye its just a headache with too many melee
vestal wren
i think a lot of things are con melee atm, still m+ is somewhat okay
pearl meteor
Kinda over blizzard just adding a spread mechanic to every fight so melee is always bad
vestal wren
yes spread is the new soak
pearl meteor
Exactly
slim olive
True
vestal wren
so basically blizz saying rogue is fine due to utility with feint/cos
-> blacklists almost every mechanic to go through those
vestal wren
ye balancing feels quite off, like the ct nerf for sin
sub had a lot of trait nerfs, sharpened is now one of the worse traits ever, lucky me could now go 3 sharpened 😉
pearl meteor
Thats rough lol. Its about time blizzard made it so we cld target specific traits from m+ in 8.1
Wish more traits had actual rotation changes like ss
vestal wren
but sub got a lot of hate for blizz failing on encounter design.
from ptr sub will get another bits nerf and a straight up aoe nerf on top 🎉
pearl meteor
Yea
vestal wren
the nerfs just nailed the choice down to sin
pearl meteor
Then they realized they fkd up and nerfed sin too :^)
vestal wren
not saying you need to, esp. with enough gear you are free to play whatever
sin nerf was just bc. ss was op and ppl failed to see it from sims
after the outliner traits of other specs where nerfed it was no suprise to have ss also nerfed
kind of bad that they did not nerf it together with others tbh
spice surge
To me it feels odd that there is no trait that does anything with rupture. As SS is the only trait that supports exsang while there is so many others supporting tb
vestal wren
so i dont rly feel it was not justified
to be fair instead of nerfing outlaw/sub ppl would feel far better if they just buffed shaman
pearl meteor
Lol shamans...
spice surge
Yeah.
pearl meteor
When our guild shaman is 383 and has been more geared than most ppl for weeks but still isnt brought
Feelsbadman
Good balance btw
spice surge
How does the "new" backstab trait look fuu? Saw your post about bits being nerfed even with the energy reduction
vestal wren
gearing is quite bad in bfa, atm its just:
- do your pvp weekly
- spamm m+ for gear
- raid for array but mostly prestige
marsh bloom
legion?
vestal wren
old man, bfa
vestal wren
yes pvp is best way to get gear
pearl meteor
Yup
marsh bloom
I am talking about
pearl meteor
By far its sad
marsh bloom
what pvp weekly...
spice surge
Your pvp weekly chest
spice surge
And you need 2.1k for a 385 azerite
vestal wren
i feel its quite stupid to chain gear to rating if you think compatitive btw.
pearl meteor
Agreed
vestal wren
then higehr you set the requirement then less ppl have access to the gear
what means you make it purposely harder to compete
pearl meteor
Another great example of blizzard balance
dark crag
Pl is a joke tanks and heals have the highest itemlvl while dps loot cloaks everytime
vestal wren
to be fair i feel PL is okay
i think Mythic should go back to ML just to allow ppl to channel gear
but i dont see it as an issue in heroic/normal/lfr
vestal wren
the idea of the azerite currency also while ppl hype it atm looks to me quite toxic
dark crag
For everything that is not mythic it is ok
vestal wren
i already see ppl channeling azerite pieces to players (top guilds)
pearl meteor
I dont think its good, but i like it better than the randomness of cache atm
(Might just b cuz i still have yet to get azerite from cache)
vestal wren
its 2-3 weeks for 1 (random) item, the specific one has a premium price
dark crag
But it sucks killing mythrax as an example and all tanks and heal get untradeable loot
vestal wren
this measn its more like 3-4+ weeks for 1 pice
pearl meteor
Yea but at least its guaranteed to get one every 2-3
I havent got one since m+ came out lol idk
vestal wren
also image you can scrap/diss azerite that is not your armor type
inc 29 ppl channeling azerite in 1 player
pearl meteor
Ye i dont like the idea of funneling
They shld just make it so traded azerite doesnt scrap to it
🤷♀️
arctic night
I'm new to Sin, does anyone have a chance to take a quick look over my log to see if i have anything to improve on?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NanCLXGYZ9PxM7f2/#fight=last&source=28
vestal wren
@dark crag i agree it feels out of your control, tho it gets better with re-clears. Your chance of actually getting your azerite within some weeks is fairly high
hehe or remove azerite trading 🙃
pearl meteor
No
dark crag
I mean loot as a whole
pearl meteor
🙃
dark crag
To this day i have two 340 azerite shoulders
vestal wren
i can see why blizz changes loot and effort/reward
they want to have a lower gear pacing
pearl meteor
They need to address titan forging and what not lol
vestal wren
like its kind of bizzar that you walk into mythic with 375 witout killing one boss
high nova
Anyone knows if a 370 SS + Gutripper trait is better than a 385 Scent of Blood + Overwhelming Power for M+ ? Not sure how to sim for M+ or whether that's even possible, on regular sims the 385 wins obviously
pearl meteor
370 ss imo
frosty violet
@arctic night reviewing it now, but before I jump into it, what group were you in for Mother?
vestal wren
you can use the herodungeon fight style to sim it if you want
i pinned it in #subtlety
arctic night
@frosty violet We did the cheese where you kill in room 1. So it was a pure patchwerk fight. Figured that would be best for a review
frosty violet
Okay
pearl meteor
Idk as long as titan forging is a thing ppl r gonna spam m+ b4 a raid tier with grps designed for that trading
If they rly want to slow it, it shldnt be a thing
vestal wren
ye m+ is an outliner
strange python
vestal wren
i assume its more #wow-general
rugged jetty
Anyone able to take a look at a couple mythic logs and see why my dmg is low
pearl meteor
Here hoping 8.1 is better but expecting to go downhill 🙃
frosty violet
@arctic night First thing
You can get more damage in your opener by using Garrote twice when you have Shrouded Suffocation Azerite trait. Shrouded Suffocation gives you 3 combo points per cast, so it accelerates your opener some and gives Garrote a full duration to work with Vendetta.
- Opener: Garrote Rupture Garrote Vendetta ToxicBlade Envenom
This also means you can use Vanish slightly later and get 23 more seconds
arctic night
Yeah, that makes sense, also extends the DoT
frosty violet
So 46 seconds of empowered dot instead of 36
You're generally pretty good at refreshing DoTs before Toxic Blade so I'll chalk this one up to a one-off mistake, but Rupture should have been refreshed ahead of time here:
That could have been a 30% empowered Envenom
You only got 1 total envenom in as well, which means you were missing uptime on the Envenom buff for the majority of the Toxic Blade effect
rugged jetty
Able to take a look st my mythic logs to see what I am doing wrong
frosty violet
This Vendetta wasn't aligned with a Vanish. You had the opportunity to Vanish twice in the fight, but you only used it once. You could have delayed Vendetta slightly to align the two for more damage.
arctic night
Just dinged 120 on Rogue tuesday, so im still getting a hang of it. Thanks for the advice
frosty violet
@arctic night This Toxic Blade didn't get two Envenoms either, when Toxic Blade is coming up soon try to prepare for it energy-wise
arctic night
And also what is the most efficient way of doing AoE in M+. On for example a pack of 4, do you just keep DoTs up on every target?
arctic night
That's what ive been doing, and been doing pretty well
strange python
hi, new to double dose here; im going to use master assassin couse sims a lot more than subterfuge, should i use vanish right before tb or env ?
cold meteor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tquMZedWrmM66LhPDQ5FZ2
Back to exsang ? 😮
frosty violet
But to be more specific than just keeping them up, you want to make sure you are poisoning all of the mobs that you DoT to take full advantage of Venomous Wounds. Your opener with Shrouded Suffocation should almost always be 3x Garrote (even though it wastes Combo Points) into a Rupture (low haste) or Crimson Tempest (high haste). Use your auto attacks to spread poison.
Anything that isn't poisoned at that point will have to get it from Fan of Knives
haughty parrot
am I suppose to switch to Archive of the Titans from SS at some point for m+?
marsh bloom
@strange python in opener before TB
after that right before your first Env after you Tb'd
strange python
thx a lot sir
austere whale
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
jaunty ginkgo
can we add our own w/a to that list?
steel terrace
!stat
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
swift kelp
Am I reading into it wrong, or is there an issue with raidbots, cause for me haste is now simming slightly above agility
swift kelp
I have 17% how low is that for 368?
candid smelt
visual wren
for raids, should be higher
im 362 and at 23% haste
15% in M+ but ideally i want to lower that a bit
needs more crit <3_<3
swift kelp
Ok so I am low for uldir, got it
strange python
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
swift kelp
I have some crit gear I can swap to for mythics, was just wondering about my simmed haste value, thanks!
visual wren
np mate, good luck!
spice surge
Its not only because you have low haste
The better gear you get the better secondaries get
So people with 380+ have no, or maybe only vers as a stat that is below agility
strange python
^
only vers for me
how does someone get perms to type in this channe;?
channel*
spice surge
noble flume
got it
Needing some help think got my stats messed up or not using abilities correctly thanks in advance https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/zuljin/ryudeath
floral frost
Toxic Blade vs Exsang for m+?
modest zodiac
bonus rolled spyglass 10 after an hour of boralus FEELS KAPPA
hushed abyss
hey guys i do have a question about my gear... i am Single Target spec with ilvl 370 and aroud 14,8k dps. i have 4 rings i can choose and Simming tells me, i should take the rings with crit and versality AND crit Mastery. I have 2 other rings with haste but the dmg output is less.
but how can that be when haste is priorized?
hushed abyss
no sockets on all rings.
noble flume
just recently switched to Exsang
sturdy python
Probably because the haste is on the low end on those rings so the other rings just turn out better number wise
Make sure to run stat weights often too
hushed abyss
i do on every item switch. but for me it feels like without haste my energy regneration is pretty low
too low
balmy perch
thanks emmisary for giving me arguably the worst 370 piece rogues can get.
sturdy python
And crit is probably pretty good so the good rings have high crit and low on a bad stat then the haste rings have low haste and high on a bad stat
hushed abyss
so would u recommend using the crit rings as the sim tells me?
hushed abyss
aoe sim is patchwerk and like 5 bosses?
hushed abyss
i was using ST in M+, should i go AOE maybe?
grand trail
hello, going to progress fetid tonight.. im normally playing TB since it sims better for me.. any reason to swap to exsa for him?
spice surge
@balmy perch Dw most of volduun pieces are pretty bad
spice surge
I assume its a chest
hushed abyss
@grand trail was asking myself the question.. i think that doesnt matter. if u look at top rogue logs, u see both, TB and Exsa
spice surge
You can only get a SS chest from volduun
and SS shoulders are only from zuldazar, no SS helm available from emissaries
balmy perch
rip
floral frost
Got the SS 370 chest today in my emissary, so excellent <3
hushed abyss
@sturdy python if i do AOE sim, it still recommends crit rings. so i think i´ll be fine
floral frost
That said, I TB vs Exsang for M+, what's yer takes
I personally find that TB just works out better but I don't really like exsang but gotta L2P if it's better
proper zealot
I definitely like Exsanguinate more than Toxic Blade in Mythic+. Popping it as early as you can in an AoE pull really helps get that Energy regen rolling from Venomous Wounds, and makes it easier to get my DoTs rolling on all of the other targets.
It works out well enough because there's usually a priority target, too, and Exsanguinate is great for that.
tough whale
I like exang more in most situations, mad really hit it well. Its better for burst openings and energy regen
daring cave
SO is SS still better for M+ than Archive?
tough whale
I think SS is better. Ilevel plays a difference for sure
daring cave
lol
visual wren
#simyourself
tough whale
Ss loses some value on tyrannical weeks but on fort weeks I'd run a few ss traits
visual wren
so many little things affect whether a talent or trait is better or worse
balmy perch
ss is just so enjoyable imo
daring cave
im going to sim just wanted to get opinion's
tough whale
Yeah I do like ss but it loses value when the mobs die before empowered garrote. Really depends on what key and level you're running.
daring cave
Ok
tough whale
Just think "I only get value from this when I stealth. How much value will i get?"
noble flume
posted sim take a look please an thanks
tough whale
5 target 5 minutes? What the hell is this
visual wren
@tough whale really depends if you have a paintrain tank, or one that allows you to restealth after every pack xD
tough whale
If your tank doesnt let you restealth you roast him
visual wren
agreed
tough whale
@noble flume why 5 targets 5 minutes
I dont understand what you're trying to evaluate
noble flume
sorry just left it default , should change to ?
visual wren
1 min or 40 seconds
tough whale
What are you trying to sim
visual wren
if you trying to sim aoe m+ that is
tough whale
M+ trash. M+ boss raid boss
noble flume
lemme re run it
tough whale
Uhh.. ok
strange python
???
tough whale
What are you simming ryu
Like you sim to get an evaluation of your character in a specific scenaruo
noble flume
trying to find my weakness sorry new to the simming
strange python
Ur first weakness
tough whale
That's not how it works really
noble flume
not sure how thos got switched
tough whale
You cant expect to find character weakness from sims. As it's your character being played as optimally as possible
And ideally you sim your character for situations that you will be doing
noble flume
im not in mythic raid yet just heroic and M+ dungeons
strange python
Why 1 minute then
tough whale
So a minute sim only shows you pretty much a low m+ boss on non tyrannical
It doesnt help you with raid
Which is closer to 5mins on most fights
noble flume
gotcha
tough whale
So if you want to see what you should roughly be doing on raid bosses
Try 5 minutes 1 target
noble flume
okay going to run then at 5 mins with typical raid buffs and potions,flask,food obviously need to change my mainhand offhand, again not sure how they got switched
strange python
what stats are better for m+ ? i read guide suggesting haste and crit but most rogues i have encountered were crit mastery
spice surge
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
vestal wren
@strange python you could try to use a custom fight script to get a better estimate for m+, i pinned herodungeon one in #subtlety.
lone junco
@daring cave m+ ss vs archive is based on ilvl difference. if your ss is 340 and archive is 385 , then prob not the ss.
you can sim that a few different ways if you like to see it yourself.
daring cave
ok, So now I have 2 370 pieces, been simming and the SS isnt showing better at all
daring cave
let me check that one
lone junco
and remember that the current apl doesnt use the 3rd garrote. so performance for ss will be better than estimated
daring cave
ok
lone junco
thats really low.
noble flume
yeah thinkin gear messed up
lone junco
the traits are wonky, and the trinkets are meh. and put your big wep in the main hand
use nightly sim as well.
civic thorn
noble flume
yeah loggin in to game to switch weapons
lone junco
@noble flume you have archive on, but is it giving you the proper stacks?
lone junco
/simc import to paste should get the proer origination array.
noble flume
and yeah i think my traits are jacked up
lone junco
that matters a ton
its like 5% haste for me, i think. 23 to 28%
dont use the armory import if you can help it. /simc is the tool of choice.
normal plinth
Anyone has any idea when wowanalyzer will work for ass rogues?
lone junco
do you need it?
normal plinth
just rolled rogue, so i suck
noble flume
what should i be working on my traits ?
lone junco
ah.
@noble flume just resim with the main hand swapped, and the proper origination stacks (unless you literally have 0)
I am 366 and 15.8k for scale.
so 13.5 is pretty low. something is missing.
noble flume
im at 7 orig right now
lone junco
noble flume
okay just logged back out with wepoans where they are suppose to be 😃
wow cant type *weapons
ill re-run it
lone junco
you dont need to log in and out. use the simulationcraft addon to capture your gear.
it grabs your shit.
that is how you use the Top gear feature
it lets you select your azerite combos all at once.
I paste mine in a text file so i can fart with it at work. and it has all my bag gear as well. so you can swap things around.
copper hawk
If my rupture has like 13 secs left and garrote has 10 and esang comes up do I just refresh the bleeds instantly or just exsang on CD
keen hound
I let them run down til right before exsang comes off cd (usually a few seconds before pandemic would kick in) and just refresh them before exsang for as much duration. Is that best? 🤷 But it's what I do.
keen hound
Just keep an eye on exsang timer and dot timers and try to line it up where you aren't wasting a whole lot of dot time
keen hound
Yeah that is still low but you are going to be low w/ those traits and those trinkets
They just aren't optimal
keen hound
how in the world is your helm 360?
(that's at least what it shows up when i look at it)
noble flume
havent gotten a helm drop 😦
keen hound
I just mean how is it ilv 360? Not 355, 370, or 385? I didn't know azzerite dropped at 360ilv?
latent escarp
Azerite trait +5 itemlevels
noble flume
yeah i know is sad 😃
what should i be moving my traits to ? to actually work with what i have of course
proper zealot
360 isn't terrible.
keen hound
I think with what you have sharpened blade is going to come out on top
proper zealot
I had been using a 345 helm up until Heroic Mythrax dropped the Laser Matrix helm for me this week. That was rough.
keen hound
sharpened blade on chest and shoulders.... archive on helm... row 2.... probably heed my call on the chest and helm with gutripper on the shoulders
That will probablyt come out on top
but you can sim it
go to sim your top gear and choose the different traits in the armor
meager quarry
sooo...most cases master assassin should be better than subterfuge if Im not using a SS trait right?
keen hound
and it will choose the best ones
proper zealot
@meager quarry Sim yourself to be sure. For me, Master Assassin is better than Subterfuge when I'm not running with any Shrouded Suffocation powers, but even then it's barely better.
violet lintel
So i got Lions Guile, but have 340 Dice / 365 Corpsucile ... some sims say replace corps others dice... i just got these dice not long ago 😦 lol
meager quarry
Im just messing around a little bit on my alt, sub is still simming higher
proper zealot
The nice thing about Master Assassin is it gives you a chance to smooth out the opener without having the SS powers, through the chance at generating extra Combo Points off of critical strikes. That's the main reason I'll run it on single-target.
meager quarry
Just sin feels so awful in m+ without SS
keen hound
@noble flume Simming your character now
proper zealot
Oh, I can only imagine. I wouldn't run without at least one Shrouded Suffocation in Mythic+.
meager quarry
Like both 385 azerites ive gotten out of my chest are garbage or dagger in the back
violet lintel
ive been running 1x SS, 2x DD myself but i use elab/subt
meager quarry
so im usually dropping one of them for a 370 SS
proper zealot
That's not terrible.
young swan
Question about toxic and envenom. Would you guys want to get off 3 envenoms during toxic blade window and buffing the envenom dmg but loosing value off the buff, or use 1 right after toxic blade then another one right as it ends to get 2 off, but more out of the envenom buff
keen hound
violet lintel
so are 340 dice worth keeping over a warforged frenetic? got Guile.
Ive simmed but i dont wanna replace dice i just got after weeks of farming -_- lol
noble flume
yeah i need to fix my traits also re-chanted my weapons had them backwards just now
keen hound
it doesn't matter which enchant you have on which weeapon
noble flume
kk
keen hound
quick on one deadly on the other doesn't matter if it's mh or oh
meager quarry
reforges up to 20k btw, i hate this shit
proper zealot
@young swan Go for as many Envenoms as you can during Toxic Blade. Should be two normally, with three during Vendetta.
noble flume
im running Exang not toxic
meager quarry
yerp theres the difference between sub and ma with no shrouded suf
keen hound
He was talking to someone else
noble flume
ah
young swan
So during toxic blade, generate cp and spend as fast as possible on envemons during toxic blade window? if i pool cp and energy before going into toxic blade
also, should u focus on keeping uptime on elaborate planning more then envenom? like refreshing elaborate planning before envenom falls off? meaning loosing effect off envenom but better uptime on the 10% buff from elaborate
tough whale
Yes but dont delay TB too much. Its CD is so short that pooling too long when it's off CD would hurt you more than just using it on cd
young swan
oh i mean pooling while im waiting for it to come off cd
tough whale
The more poison damage you frontload into tb the better ofc
young swan
ye
tough whale
Also on the other talent choice I'll just throw in my opinion
I think subtur > MA on almost every uldir fight
Because there is almost always a possibility to vanish garrote more than 1 target
Which would put it above MA
Exceptions exist ofc but if you can get a good garrote off on a 2nd target subt > ma every time
lone junco
@noble flume best tool for trait hunting is top gear from your bags.
Select all your top ilvl ones, and the ones you expect to be good.
then select the Ma/Subterfuge Tb/Exang
before I had the raidbot subscription. I did Traits/talents. then another run of trinkets and rings.
now i just do it all at once
tough whale
Yeah that update is phat
lone junco
THEN after all that, you can decide if the 0.1% gain is worth playing Sharp blade TB vs SS exang.
and for me, exang ss wins, because i do a lot of M+, and im not about to flip/flop until i get spare azerites
proper zealot
@young swan Definitely start to pool before Toxic Blade comes off CD. If you start pooling once it comes off CD you run the risk of missing uses throughout the fight if that's something you're routinely doing. Try to start pooling with about 5 seconds left on TB's CD, if you can.
tough whale
@lone junco same, and I dont have any sb traits that are as good as my ss traits so easy choice
lone junco
@young swan youll know you fucked it up, if you dont have 2 env per TB. (most use a TB buff tracker)
ebon prism
lone junco
due to ilvl, Im using 2ss 1 scent i think.
tough whale
M+ this week is awful in general so I wouldnt stress it too much
Sanguine Grevious gives really horrid uptime on trash with really awkward pulls
noble flume
switched a few things running new sim
proper zealot
Agreed. Just get your +11 done for the week and call it a day.
lone junco
Catching up.
noble flume
think need a few more or better gear pieces and trinks
lone junco
looks like its down to traits and trinkets. the rest looks ok
I aim for crit haste. else high haste or absurdly high crit.
tough whale
Yeah those trinkets are a feelsbad
lone junco
fathoms might be cheap by now. 40k my server
noble flume
which 2 should i be shooting for on trinks ?
tough whale
Nothing from raid tbh
noble flume
ty
lone junco
when you look at that list, recoginze that fathoms may be low overall. it is as good as 385 or 400 in other slots
that is specifically Exang. There is a button for default. that swaps to Master Assassin and TB
noble flume
wow my trinks are poo
tough whale
Like I have 370 dice and galecallers and fathoms beats dice in pure st
lone junco
that high number is garbage. im not interested in playing Sharp knife tbh
tough whale
378 18k
spice surge
Reorigination stacks makes it go up even higher aswell
tough whale
I keep hitting this weird breakpoint for crit where it briefly becomes my best stat until I throw one crit gem in 
lone junco
I plotted haste a while back. It dips in and out. But long term still bis. GC timings is probably messing with it
noble flume
actually had a 340 dice in bags so threw that on since higher rating that what i had on per the reference
mortal mural
how would you maximize your rotation as assassination on lower keys sub 10, where aoe packs die really fast, also is it still neccessary to run shrouded suffocation for m plus in one slot?
tough whale
I think at least 1ss makes everything so much smoother on keys of any level
The combo points help you open much quicker
@lone junco it always happens to me. Literally one crit gem drops it from 2.26 to 1.8
Just some weird breakpoint I think
quiet axle
@mortal mural I'm no expert by any means but I just garrote 4 mobs, hit fok and start spreading lower ruptures if the mobs are gonna die fast I just envenom instead
lone junco
@mortal mural the lower the key the better SS is.
Nothing scales aoe well.
So garrote the things and that's what we do.
Scent is good for big packs that last a long time.
But I'm consistently 18k-25k dps
tough whale
Yeah cause it pumps
quiet axle
@lone junco are the rogues I've seen that are hitting 18-25k opening on trash utilizing ss? I don't have any SS traits so my ramp up time seems really long for trash
tough whale
Sob vs ss depends on the level of peice
olive surge
yo is wound poison really just pvp only
olive surge
lone junco
All so I know of use at least 1 SS in m+
tough whale
I typically use 3 on fort 2 on tyr key depending
lone junco
I actually was swapping to wound poison for the life leech boss in dinosaur temple cause group dps sucked.
tough whale
Yikes
drifting elbow
🤔
olive surge
lone junco
Yikes is the name of my game.
tough whale
I feel like still running wound would make up for leeched hp
lone junco
Wound poison reduces her life gained.
tough whale
^
lone junco
Nothing about me leeching
tough whale
Imagine trying to LUL someone and mixing up leech healing vs wound poison
ruby idol
drifting elbow
sure that lower heal debuff is going to matter when boss heals shit ton with chaining full time
just pick up the pools
lone junco
Y'all don't play with bad enough players.
lone junco
They missed 2 pools like 6times in a row.
tough whale
Honestly though you picking up pools and keeping Deadly poison > swapping ti wound
olive surge
i mean at that point youre prepping for failure
tough whale
Like your 1 pool beats 2 leeches
lone junco
Just
olive surge
anyways thanks guys
lone junco
It's fine.
tough whale
Just kill the boss 4HEad
drifting elbow
hard to kill when more than 2 guys miss the pools 
lone junco
Yep
tough whale
Ok moving on to the next topic
lone junco
But yeah. Rip PK.
I think I would enjoy scent more if rupture were a bit higher on the dps profile.
drifting elbow
if it was any higher
it becomes the best with 3+ pulls
that agi amount scaling on dotted mobs isnt joke
lone junco
Sure. SS is neat but doesn't ramp into big pulls.
tough whale
Yeah we do this pull in tol dagor where I'm literally useless. Feels great
At that point doesnt matter what I wear though so it's a different scenario
lone junco
It's neat to see agi over 6k with scent. And the sustain gets really really high
Pre SS nerf nothing mattered. Ggg then wait. And you are like a smudge lower than super try hard.
At least now there is some play with garrote mut FOK in aoe.
noble flume
looks like thats about it for now until better trinks and gear https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pKzsghbeo4Hiwzr5eQVXA3
drifting elbow
with that 4th target
quiet axle
SS on 340 chest is simming ~7% worse than a 370 w/ SoB for a 6t 40s sim. Is SS still simming improperly?
drifting elbow
SS sims correctly
tough whale
Think about it