18s garrote in 9 sec but 15 sec cd. 👎
#assassination
lone junco
vernal atlas
Woah, wait wait aren't you using env as your standart finisher anyways unless you need to refresh rupture? Because that makes thinking about refreshing redundant
lone junco
Re ep uptime and env?
inland ridge
vernal atlas
Yeah I mean that you try to fit in another finisher into your ep is clear. But is it worth waiting everytime to fit in another env or are you better of just spamming
dark token
i wait personally
why spam
if you arent capping on energy its not more efficient
unless u about to do a mechanic
vernal atlas
Cuz itz fun
dark token
being energy starved is fun? TIL
strange python
there are new flasks in bfa scurra
vernal atlas
Regeneration is pretty fast tho
strange python
IIRC the agility one is something of the current
vernal atlas
So... but to come to it, its proven to be better to build up energy and go 4cp+ > finisher > 4cp+ > finisher to use ep?
Ravenholdt guide doesn't mention it. Thats why I want to make sure
lone junco
@vernal atlas Best to not spam env unless you have a reason to. It's a rhythm. If you dump e too fast, you cause unnecessary gaps in your env/ep uptimes. Bleeds ticking and melee whites on Ep is important.
dark token
yeah its been proven higher envenom and EP uptimes = higher dps
since sin launched in legion
unless you do <=3cp finishers to achieve it
cause then its not energy efficient
lone junco
Clip clip clip. Except TB/shoulder windows.
dark token
the only problem with pooling is to ensure your bleeds wont expire during ur envenom spam
takes some forthought
lone junco
I bet 2cp rupture would be fine if that fit into the rotation.
strange python
sin rogue is all about pacing yourself, if you spam like you said, you will quickly run out of steam
will be even more clear when we lose tier 21 and 120 stat scaling
lone junco
^^^^^
exotic rampart
somebody posted this on an old assass video
Михаил Перекокин
14 minutes ago
If done a little hero power, before use that ability, need complete some quest room's. First look you can see on 21-t rogue set bonus ability. Ambush have a 1450 damage done on cloth armor. If you start hit on back before use cold blood. After you have chance on use trinkets (armor of God's and snake).
Next day of weekly quests you need conc a mind a Argus quest hall.
dark token
does cloak stack with the fan of knives talent
exotic rampart
can somebody translate please
strange python
looks like it was already filtered through google translate
it does stack @dark token but it is additive instead of multiplicative
so, not that good
lone junco
Yes.
exotic glen
it does in warmode
dark token
cause i was thinking that combo would make sin the best leveling spec until 116
cloak + shoulders + fok talent + fok talent
lone junco
Meh. I don't like waiting that long. I'll be lvling outlaw with shoulder sephuz.
exotic glen
yeah everyone else has been thinking about that as well
dark token
not sephuz?
exotic glen
shoulders will of course be insane because you get resets all the time
dark token
i would think ms on sephuz makes shoulder sephuz the best on any spec
lone junco
Sephuz yes.
vernal atlas
Huh intereting... is there any video guide that Shows that in action?
lone junco
For run speed.
dark token
o yeah
lone junco
But w/e. Lvling is fast enough.
dark token
also protip for you guys
save your blue weapon quest to turn in at 120
it scales
only 1 blue weapon quest from the dwarf at the start
lone junco
Ok. There will be a horde equiv.
dark token
yeah
lone junco
There was a trinket that zaps. Was doing like 30% damage. I wonder if skipping it until late would get me a nice trinket to start 120.
dark token
you dont need the 180 weapons when you have artifacts
strange python
the zap trinket was nerfed abysmally
lone junco
Boo.
dark token
i think its 320
main blaze
Nice
strange python
might be fixed come the expansion but I guess it doesn't hurt to try
cold patio
SimC T22 sims for Assa are with exsang (http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/PR_Raid.html) or iam miss reading ?
strange python
they are
dark token
e x s a n g 
strange python
supposedly the exsang apl is being worked on
haven't seen any info about it on here and I tend not to trust those sims anyway so whatever
cold patio
hm okay
lone junco
It doesn't play much diff than TB as long as we are maining EP.
vernal atlas
Woah sorry, I am super confused by now... so if rupture does not need to be refreshed, my go to finisher is env right? !
strange python
yes
vernal atlas
Okay thanks
lone junco
But you can wait until your energy is a high or env buff is running out.
Mut to 4, Rupture is high. Garrote is high, track ep to <0.5s to env.
Unless you were going to cap E
vernal atlas
Aha so its really more about refreshing than building and spendig as fast as possible
Damn then I played it entirely wrong. Cool.
exotic glen
just try and keep things to a high uptime instead of spamming
unless you will overcap on energy or you have cooldowns active
lone junco
It's really smooth and more like an orchestra conductor of dots
Outlaw is a cluster duck of spam.
Dfa sub was very similar. Smooth use of CDs
@exotic glen 2p4p exang was my bb. I can't imagine a future build that plays as smooth.
balmy stump
@strange python thanks
exotic glen
@lone junco made a 2nd rogue for split raiding in antorus
and it had a lot more crit than my main, like 10%
i was always so fucking sad when i went back to playing on my main after my alt
even tho main was much better geared
fleet whale
that default sim on simcraft for assassin at 110 is... weird
still stacks mastery... no haste stacking
reef talon
d
warm parcel
those havent been touched
fading spade
i only have 2p t21 cuz i just got back into playing my rogue
warm parcel
those are age old and irrelevant
exotic glen
yeah they seem pretty wrong
fleet whale
yes
and it's kind of updated... it shows the squish and has very early sims for 340 ilvl at 120
fading spade
simcraft and raidbots shows the same stat weights
warm parcel
that have 0 relevance to anything
fading spade
haste/mast/crit
i made the switch to primary haste and currently i feel like i do less damage
strange python
sim your stat weights etc
strange python
if you have logs we can look if you are doing something wrong
fading spade
i just picked the rogue back up last week
so chances are im doin a ton wrong lol
i was just curious if that was truly the way to follow im assuming it will make more sense at 120
exotic glen
it makes plenty sense now
woven snow
hello there , is any spreadsheet that shows which race is best for assassination rogue ? pref alliance races
exotic glen
haste makes our bleeds tick faster
strange python
herodamage.com/rogue there are race sims
woven snow
thanks
fading spade
i even stopped using my kingslayers cuz the darkshore daggers showed a 71% increase on pawn lol
fading spade
with my own
exotic glen
cool
fading spade
even tho theyre 210 ilvl and the artifact is 228 its insane
strange python
pawn is messed up with those weapons
pawn doesn't know how to react to the new weapon dmg scaling
fading spade
so ignoring that would be best? go back to artifact for now?
fading spade
makes sense
after not playin the rogue for almost a year i didnt expect to do amazing
but im parsing garbage and its disappointing
strange python
you can post logs and we can look as I said
fading spade
true. its less about am i parsing bad cuz my ilvl is low? or parsing bad cuz im bad lol yeah ill post
lemme find one
thats recent
honest compass
If you do advanced logging
It’ll tell you
I think, I know base logs only do for your ilvl
strange python
ilvl parses are no more, something to do with the squish and the way warcraftlogs had the old ones coded.
strange python
any combination of mantle, sephuz, insig, bracers are common
just sim all your options
honest compass
Well
lone junco
@warm parcel what were the exsang apl changes? If it's easy to summarize
honest compass
You parsed 20
warm parcel
play proper
fading spade
what would be better on a single target fight?
lone junco
I'm in the 75-85 range with what would have been 99-100 ilvl.
So rip my heroic glory.
fading spade
i was parsing in the 60s a couple weeks ago then i made all these changes and stacking haste
which leads to the original reason i am here. my numbers went down lol
strange python
You wasted combo points, do not mutilate at 4cp. You're using fok to get cp, don't do that on single target. Your using the subterfuge opener yet you have nightstalker. You did a lot of 3cp envenoms, finish at 4+ but an occasional 3cp rupture is ok.
exotic glen
wasted a gcd in mantle window by using garrote for some reason
strange python
not sure if having 107 haste counts as "stacking haste".
in that log it is your lowest stat.
pale rose
Anyone here who knows a good way of triggering the Sephuz proc thoughout a boss fight?
strange python
you don't, in most fights.
fleet whale
just stun an add on portal keeper
fading spade
yeah those 3cp envenoms. the other rogue in my guild was feeding me advice. telling me to try and get 3 envenoms off every TB window
and i was energy starved tryin to do 3
pale rose
Is the haste really that good then, if you are fighting something like Garothi?
fleet whale
it's good yes
strange python
3 envenoms during tb is unreasonable outside of lust even for a properly geared player
severe harbor
question about hidden blades, does it mean if you sit and wait the full duration out
your next fan of knives deals 400% damage
pale rose
But is Sephuz then a really good choice for Garothi?
strange python
good stats and 2% hate
strange python
haste. even
pale rose
alright
fleet whale
both rings are really strong right now and a big reason for it is for stats alone
I also like the passive movement speed from sephuz
severe harbor
also I took Prey on the Weak always, especially in Arenas but
warm parcel
so
severe harbor
Iron Wire 6 second silence seems
warm parcel
current def doesnt support sf and exs combo
severe harbor
really good
warm parcel
so it doesnt sync vanish
it doesnt actually use garrote
and some minor improv for garr usage in general
exotic glen
that the apl changes for exsang?
strange python
@fading spade overall your casts seem very spaced out.
warm parcel
Thats the tldr
exotic glen
aight ty
lone junco
I looked at the desync and the 4th didn't even have vendetta. And vendetta didn't have vanish. So it was all over the place.
fading spade
@strange python I feel like every piece of advice my other guild rogue gave me was garbage...
fading spade
Stun lock til they're dead
exotic glen
your other guild rogue most likely isnt as good as connor either so
severe harbor
lots of PvE info but for some reason very little pvp guides for people just picking up the pre-patch
fading spade
Oh I never thought that at all
severe harbor
oh ty didn't know
exotic glen
np
fiery nest
Also because pre patch is over with in less than a week
warm parcel
how is it a wash
fading spade
Well @tropic galleon if you have any advice I'm happy to hear it. I definitely know I can improve huge
Ii dont think its the general play that I have issues with. It's the little nuances, like when to pool energy and when not to. Stuff like that
strange python
your second vanish should basically replicate your opener
since you use shoulders
you used vanish envenom in the opener but vanish rupture later on
lone junco
Subterfuge shoulder gets a bit wonky. I don't think it's that bad though.
strange python
also since you are using nightstalker you should cut the garrote after vanish in your opener
exotic glen
@fading spade
why are you doing this
you are wasting your shoulders
by not spamming mut envenom
strange python
his dogs opener was a little more on track
fading spade
I followed the icy veins opener for dogs.
exotic glen
you did the exact same thing on dogs
except you didnt refresh rupture outside of its pandemic range
stop pressing garrote in your shoulders window though
lone junco
Best way I find for specific fights, is look at a top log. That uses your oranges,talents. And see if they are Doing something substantially better.
strange python
icy veins opener assumes subterfuge talent
fading spade
I still dont see the advantage to subterfuge on ST fights
warm parcel
raw damage?
exotic glen
there isnt much advantage because you are using shoulders
you should try simming other legendaries
fading spade
That night I got tier shoulders which I'm now using and switched to sephuz/bracers
exotic glen
sounds cool dude
fading spade
I pugged into a coven kill
exotic glen
try simming your previous setup vs your current and then run subterfuge
fading spade
Will do.
supple mesa
Shoulders sephuz with subterfuge is what sims best for me
supple mesa
I sim 6.3k so idk
fading spade
I sim like 3.7k. /wrists
supple mesa
Maybe I should try sephuz and bracers thanks for the idea syn
fading spade
With the haste meta now it just seemed to make sense to me
That being said though would not using shoulders change opener?
elfin quartz
is this not the standard opener? Garrote – Mutilate – Mutilate – Rupture – Vendetta – Toxic Blade -…- Vanish – Garrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote
thats what the guide says
elfin quartz
o idk. i thought someone said earlier not to garotte in shoulder window
supple mesa
If you use sub with shoulders
exotic glen
because most people dont play shoulders
and if you do, nightstalker usually sims higher than subterfuge
elfin quartz
o i c
supple mesa
Your vanish sequence is vanish env mut garrot env mut env
exotic glen
so in that opener, there is no shoulder window
lone junco
I play subt shoulders. Vanish env. Garrote mut env mut env.
But I do what I want. CrraaaazZy.
supple mesa
Just make sure you refresh garrot in subt window
fading spade
Just read the guide here. Going to test this out
strange python
even with shoulders the apl still does vanish in last 6 seconds iirc
fading spade
And the guide recommends blindside over EP?
supple mesa
For bfa
exotic glen
the guide recommends subterfuge
dark token
/shrug Shoulders and bracers Sims higher for me than anything else
summer yoke
Where is the guide located at for the opener?
exotic glen
in the header of this channel
summer yoke
OK thank you. Mobile app is a little janky
lone junco
Looks like you will need to add target_error=0.05. If you are pasting a full profile.
And yeah. Shoulder bracer for me as well.
@warm parcel I'm in weird gear but it looks like >=2 cp ruptures was a 7 dps gain. Aka wash.
I was hoping for an ep uptime gain. But it was less than 1% ep gain.
So I'll just not worry and rupture with whatever is available. 2,3,4,5.
Might be better differential for 2T tho.
Garrote rupture / garrote rupture. Carry on.
Words.
warm parcel
oh
dark token
lol
exotic glen
i usually just shadowstep to someone down there
lone junco
Ahh yes. The mage slowfall going down to krosus. Watching people fly off into the lava.
Sstep saved the day.
dark token
lmfao
exotic glen
and not being able to do anything about it
dark token
so many people died from mage slowfall
lone junco
Every app we had died.
dark token
im glad i played outlaw for trash cause i just grapple
lone junco
We also kill mind controlled players on any farm content. Specifically HFC last time I remember. But there was some in Lich king.
summer yoke
Switching my ally rogue to horde to play with friends, which horde race is best for rogue now?
strange python
there are race simulations on herodamage.com/rogue
dark token
Goblin always best race
Save dat mony
Also goblin jump op progression
You've never seen anyone cross a room faster than a rogue with shadowstep goblin jump sprint shadowstep
void axle
I have heard that troll is a good race for their racial ability, though I mostly PvP most of the time
royal lantern
you race for the minigame mode is mostly meta based
like, if feral druid/sin rogue is strong dwarf is strong, if warlock is good undead is good etc....
hoary copper
Races dont matter
royal lantern
they dont do for PvE, i agree, but they do a bit for minigame mode(pvp)
lone junco
I still prefer belf. But I've been undead since 2008
leaden ore
belf male of course 😃
lone junco
Not worth the 15$. And I fear/charm break about 1x a week.
royal lantern
i liked you:(
lone junco
Meh.
I do a lot of m+. And value mog as 1dps.
And story = 0 dps gain.
That RP bullshit out of my zone
lone junco
Meh.
If orc racial is not more dps, then it's not worth my concern.
And it's bottom tier afaik.
prisma cypress
my rogue has been a human female since vanilla, tempted to change races but don't know what i'd change to
exotic glen
no reason to if you dont have a better choice in mind
lone junco
every time I break fear, or canister, im like YEEEEE
but then I think about all the times i could have used arcane torrent.
royal lantern
tbf, arcane torrent is less bullshit now
lone junco
royal lantern
yes, a purge is good, but a aoe silence with resource generation is simply ridicolous
dark token
arcane torrent was LUL
royal lantern
doing mythic portal keeper as alliance was way harder lol
royal lantern
i know...?
royal lantern
purge+resource generation is strong yeha, but aoe silence with generation was too good
it gave classes that are not supposed too have interupts one and stuff
dark token
i was like cool im rogue i have 5 interrupts
exotic glen
its nothing compared to prot pala
dark token
silence, kick, stun, gouge, blind
exotic glen
was in a m+ with one
and on medivh, everyone had like 4-5 interrupts
prot pala had 17
royal lantern
panda rogue still has kick garrote cheap shot kidney and racial active sooo....
exotic glen
aha
royal lantern
(wich gave assassination 9%mastery in legion but dont tell anyone)
elder crescent
Someone tell me that Ret paladins even out at 120, cause every one I've run into is just wtf to fight solo
royal lantern
its pre-patch, nothing is balanced
royal mango
except rogue with a 25% overall pvp nerf but meh
terse citrus
U saw them rogue nerfs
royal lantern
be happy that the nerf is pvp only lol
royal lantern
i was 90%sure blizzard will kill the class instead of doing some minigame mode specific stuff
elder crescent
Meanwhile, ret hits as hard as we did with 10x the survival 😜
terse citrus
Forreal.
royal mango
mm 1 shots
terse citrus
Mad classes
elder crescent
Mm was nerfes
royal mango
those 11k crits from surv hunter too
elder crescent
Nerfed
royal mango
totally balanced XD
elder crescent
MM and Assa got hit the hardest.
lone junco
invisible stealthy squishy
golden mulch
Hi short question: Do i Vanish with shoulders after Toxic Blade or do i wait until i reapply Garrote? I heard different things
lone junco
4p20 for that sweet garrote dmg.
elder crescent
@golden mulch iirc it depends on the amount of combo points you have?
golden mulch
Hm really?
elder crescent
5, vanish envenom, 4 gar,
terse citrus
If u got set
golden mulch
Because i watched a Youtube video from a famous rogue player that stated always Vanish before Garrote reapply and another said right after Toxic Blade before all the evenom spam
golden mulch
I dont have 4P yet only 2P
terse citrus
F my phone
golden mulch
And am using Mantle and Ravenhold ring
golden mulch
I was playing sub yeah but looking to play assa for raid
terse citrus
Oh pve
terse citrus
I'm more pvp but I do own pve
Well
With sin probably like 60 % energy to reapply garret or a mutilate to kill
Try to use during c as t
lone junco
golden mulch
When are people use Subterfuge and when nightstalker btw?
lone junco
except for that double mut.
golden mulch
And ty for the input!
lone junco
@golden mulch can sim the two based on your gear. subterfuge and ns are close. I like subt better because it mods better to 2t 3t
and it is absolutely bis for M+
with sephuz
afk. gl
latent glade
What talents should I be using in PvP atm? (Bgs mostly)
strange python
system shock, creeping venom, flying daggers or deadly brew
royal mango
I take smokebomb for securing kills and an extra defensive/restealth opportunity
quartz depot
hf for 9 days
vernal atlas
So I just checked all of the popular written rogue guides. The only one that told me a bit about the ep window was wowhead.... sad🤔
cosmic wren
Was is posted somewhere why they used exsanguinate on the default profiles on simc? I can't find anything that makes it seem like thats the best talent.
zenith gust
best leggos for assasination st and mt?
strange python
some combination of mantle, sephuz, insignia, bracers. sim it.
zenith gust
k thx
sick oyster
has anyone tried devlins assa weakauras and knows if he features NS / subterfuge coloring on dots
dire spoke
can you try them?
faint vault
What is the best legendaries for leveling in BFA?
dire spoke
mantle-somethingsomething
faint vault
Mantle of the master assassin and Sephuz possibly?
dire spoke
yeah sounds reasonable, maybe cloak with HB sometimes but it's w/e
elder crescent
I think I'll be going with the crafted leggo boots and Sephuz, for all the movement.
dark token
shoulders 1hit tho
anyone know poison bomb spellid since it changed to a talent
my old WA doesnt work
elder crescent
You can use the talent to one shot and not need the one that lets you use stealther skills...
I literally 2 shot things and have speed buufs
civic palm
@dark token It's in the URL
dark token
yeah i have that ID in my Wa but its not working
i think the actual dmg is different from the talent
cosmic nacelle
Poision bomb wa in 2016 
civic palm
...
The DMG difference wouldn't matter as that is being pulled from the combat log.
Your WA might not be working for another reason.
dark token
@cosmic nacelle im just fixing all my broken WAs I like seeing all the procs -_-
lone junco
PB is like 2% of dmg. and you wont use it in AoE.
just delete the WA
CT is the real AoE talent. so in M+ etc.
cosmic nacelle
Won't be playing sin in 2 weeks tho
vernal atlas
So let me ask you one more thing regarding rota.... do I want to clip ep or env buff?? So when shall I use the next env? When ep is running low or when the env buff is running low?
strange python
EP
but you will run out of steam if u go for it a lot
so u have to realize when to go back to env buff for a few
vernal atlas
uff... very easy...
K, just tried it out... yah well keeping env up is possible, ensuring ep to be up will let me starve immediatley
strange python
then ur good
civic palm
Yeah.
strange python
you can't get it to 100%
quartz depot
you can't really keep it up 100%
vernal atlas
okay
vernal atlas
yah but the problem is that when I try to refresh it as fast as possible again i will energy starve...
so what shall I do?
really confused by now
strange python
with your stats you should be able to clip ep just fine
i mean are you finishing at 4+ cp?
patent topaz
vanish, hs and log off
vernal atlas
iam
strange python
dont know what to tell you
vernal atlas
but it must be normal to be on low energy then, right?
elfin quartz
Isn’t it normal to sit for a second or two before reapplying envenom sometimes
vernal atlas
okay, then I just have a wrong picture on how it should look like
if having slight downtimes and pooling is normal, then I'm fine I guess
patent topaz
things will be even slower at 120, just understand the concept
vernal atlas
does my playstyle change with the activation of vendetta and/ or poision blade?
strange python
not really
with tb you want to get at least 2 envenoms during its duration
but that usually happens anyway
exotic glen
thing will be slower at 120 initially
but i dont see a reason why the playstyle wont speed up later in expac
so
strange python
losing tier 21 is huge man
civic palm
Opener will be faster pretty much immediately.
exotic glen
ya but hasted bleeds boyo
civic palm
Yeah but ~20% haste and not 30% haste boyo
strange python
stat scaling at 120 is different than 110
civic palm
If scaling DR is there, it's still there.
exotic glen
playstyle will be fast again
strange python
guess you're right
exotic glen
or
strange python
but it's still like having current haste levels but no tier
exotic glen
as fast as assa can be
civic palm
If Blizzard doesn't want us to have 40% haste we get the DR dick
civic palm
TISU PLEASE
strange python
40 is generous
civic palm
GET YER PEDANTRY OUTTA HERE
exotic glen
😡
civic palm
Relatively you butt.
strange python
is antorus
bugged?
everything deals 300% damage compared to heroic a month ago
civic palm
Is that a literal number or just...
civic palm
Tanks mitigation has shifted priorities, there are some but not many left over DMG bugs in ANT.
and I am willing to bet that while we might have gotten -90% HP, damage was not scaled equally.
strange python
is that wrong
civic palm
80-90 IIRC.
strange python
i did 89.88% on vari today
civic palm
We traded PBOMB luck for more CP luck.
dire spoke
still top dps spec AMIRITE
civic palm
Yeah.
strange python
yeah
dire spoke
@gusty kestrel try 20 amanthuls
vernal atlas
so I just checked some logs and even with just spamming the stuff I had 83% uptime in fights
dire spoke
civic palm
There we go.
supple mesa
WHat would make someones average cast of envenom do 4k more damage than another persons?
Gear is close in ilvl
civic palm
Better usage inside TB windows, more mastery, better EP upkeep.
Depends on what you are looking at.
quartz depot
that sounds like a pretty huge difference tbh
civic palm
Yep.
quartz depot
did he 100% crit them
vernal atlas
o sry, was taking a nap
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/H9D72CVTqGcYP4Ln#fight=1&type=auras&source=1
so in this fight I was mindlessly spamming
cuz I didn't know better
vernal atlas
I was mashing mut like a moron and pumped out env whenever I could.... tried to refresh garrote and rupture but didn't know crap about ep uptimes or env buffing
dark crag
And did 95%?
lone junco
.
dark crag
Ah that hurts
civic palm
Gotta to fast!!
lone junco
main blaze
95%
lone junco
main blaze
?
civic palm
This is low-level optimization as well.
vernal atlas
I was simed 4.8k at this time
civic palm
There's DPS to be milked from the parse that was lost due to poor DoT management.
vernal atlas
by raidbots
lone junco
and the other shit dps. if you had bracer
vernal atlas
So, how could I have gotten more out there?
what confuses me, is why I reached the simed goal by spamming??
like every energy I got, I immedately thrown out
civic palm
Because the SIM is an average and not the Highest DPS your stats can perform using the supplied APL.
So if you are lucky in any way, the procs from trinkets, PBOMB, etc. can overcome the loss from poor play.
lone junco
example inc.
vernal atlas
So I guess without spamming I could've gotten a higher ep and env uptime??
lone junco
gentle siren
what do you guys use most as tier 5 talent in pvp?
lone junco
those are from my run this week
strange python
which one is tier 5
civic palm
lone junco
rupture before Tb.
strange python
use a box
lone junco
my snippy doesnt have a box does it?
civic palm
poor toolage!!
vernal atlas
ah okay, even if that means delaying tb by a few secs?
lone junco
civic palm
No just plan the refreshes better. You're not going to lose DPS from refreshing RUP 1-3 GCDs before going into a burst window.
strange python
that doesnt look okay
dire spoke
y'all have weak mouse game
lone junco
@vernal atlas nah. you rupture early, and have some E going into the TB. so you can do 2 env each time
@dire spoke true
strange python
rupture - tb - envenom, that envenom must be 1 or 2 cp right?
dire spoke
civic palm
vernal atlas
no in his example none of the env is 1-2 cp
lone junco
prob
firt one then.
dont do that second one.
that what I get for using my own log
civic palm
windows+shift+s to snip 👌
vernal atlas
k, so I make sure I rupture before. is there any trick to it or just practice and being aware? also is there any planning around my vendetta?
lone junco
civic palm
Just gotta watch the timers.
strange python
lmao
civic palm
That's just BM at this point > _>
lone junco
And don't be a derp and run mechanics while your garrote falls off.
Uptime of that is prio
strange python
wish there was an easy way to check pandemic refreshes in logs
lone junco
(I did that on my Varith. ). Went from. 6500 run to 5800. On a 5400 sim.
vernal atlas
mechanics?
ripe steeple
what talents do you guys take for arena?
sinful parcel
So I was wondering about Sin's Tirer 2 Talent, and how does Subterfuge play into it? What skills do you use in the opener/vanish?
strange python
I'm looking for anyone with a raidbots premium acc to top gear myself ❤
supple hearth
@ripe steeple we will pin common meta builds in #pvp in another month when season 1 is starting and tuning gets a bit more sure/stable
sinful parcel
Anyone know about what I just asked? It's bugging me
supple hearth
^ the guide is giving u openers and rotation with subterfuge in mind @sinful parcel
strange python
thought I was in #385145484559253506
shrewd night
I know that feel Connor
somber otter
Garrote is empowered when used in stealth, but what causes this?
supple hearth
Read tool tip of subterfuge
somber otter
thanks
dire spoke
vernal atlas
how many env is one supposed to get out during tb? I manage to get 2-3, depending on cp luck.
thanks @lone junco with your advice I immediately do 200dps more
civic palm
2-3
dire spoke
3-4
vernal atlas
k, then it looks like I'm getting closer to atleast understanding what I am doing xD
now I just need to get it into practice
still vendetta is just used on cd and I don't bother any more about it??
spare cloud
Delay for things like Bracers, which wont matter anymore soon
But Heroism for example
Don't lose casts though
grim jay
it still feels awkward to see it equipped tho
while 2 legendary rings always feels awkward
atleast for me tho
and for m+ its still like sub feels better gameplaywise
quaint sequoia
will the dmf trinket in bfa be any good?
grim jay
4p t20 in general looks pretty good tbh
on which ilvl you got those pieces @lone junco ?
lone junco
They are pretty low compared to my 21 and way way lower than the off pieces. But if you sim 8T 20sec and 4t 40s you can see the numbers
The cloak is 220 maybe.
But it's not about the ilvl. The 4p subterfuge sephuz is absurd.
civic palm
Wonder who this is? O _O"
_>
Who wants a range finder O _O
and CT technically.
Both same range.
Range Finding continues to remind me why I hate it.
Just need to find somewhere to stick it.
Gonna be something like
Just trying to figure out if I want it to show all the time or what =\
Simple 8y range finder.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Need to finder a better icon though
lone junco
Prob doesn't matter what the number is at 5+. But I guess seeing 35 will be neat in the snake room.
civic palm
Course not.
Just wanted to see how people were doing this mess now.
Turns out it's fucking simple.
function()
aura_env.count = 0
for i=1, 40 do
local unit = "nameplate"..i
if UnitCanAttack("player", unit) and IsItemInRange(34368, unit) then
aura_env.count = aura_env.count + 1
end
end
end
34368 is some fucking item with an 8y range.
Because spell range seems whacky or something.
strange python
why 40?
civic palm
Fuck if I know.
strange python
last time this was discussed it started a whole other discussion about whether or not jumping increases the range of fok.
civic palm
Stupid LUA
strange python
haha.
civic palm
Range is a bubble and not a square.
and hits on targets near the center of the model still.
But yes, jumping will "increase range"
Discussion DONE.
/wipeshandsoff
Which means that being taller might "increase" your range.
fading spade
@strange python your advice helped a ton. Thanks again to you and the other folks who threw input in earlier today. Next time my guild raids I think my logs will look a bit better:D
civic palm
Very RPG.
strange python
👍
civic palm
Delete it.
neon scarab
lel
civic palm
ty ty
neon scarab
yw
strange python
I'm an outlaw rogue, how would i learn the rotation and the spec in general?
hoary copper
charred moat
fathom falcon
If EP is talented - is focus on EP uptime, even if you have to clip envenom buff?
subtle phoenix
yo
tight meteor
does the ignore waist sims rule still apply
dire spoke
yes it's still not accurate
@fathom falcon if you can clip EP go for it, but you will get starved at some point if you get unlucky CP - everything above 80% uptime is fine ... 90 on short fights
prisma sail
note to self: when in a raid where the priest is a jaja and you have to beg him to give fort, make sure the rest of the raid aren't jajas and from the same server, or I'll get booted again.
atomic jewel
dire spoke
there are simulations on herodamage, but there is still going to be a tuning pass in near future
ornate herald
i'm currently simming highest with sephuz/symbiote, is symbiote really worth using over insig/shoulders though?
dire spoke
cini is overvalued in simulations due to the linear decrease of health which does not happen in a real environment
ornate herald
thanks
shrewd pine
and come classes dont have finished / optimized APL afaik
elfin fossil
^
shrewd pine
the numbers are changing like every day
elfin fossil
yeah, you guys can remove it if you think it causes confusion - just saw it and lol’d a bit.
dire spoke
nvmd it's nightstalker, thought weak already pushed the subterfuge experiment he did
lol
sub used master of shadows, not naturomove
dire spoke
I didn't catch up on sub talk
shrewd pine
oh okay
ye, narutomove is only for AOE where it hits hard but for ST, mosh is better
dire spoke
vanish at 55s into fight 
shrewd pine
ye
I saw Fuu simming it somewhere
and using / not using vanish was like 1% at max difference
rip vanish 
dire spoke
oh I see, it's before dance window to extend the FW beforehand
which seems weird
because it's before SoD too
🤷🏻 oh well w/e
dire spoke
problem is that sin often wins in progress due to dots allowing you to run and do shit
elfin fossil
I actually like sin 🤷♂️
shrewd pine
Nightblade thooo 
dire spoke
shrewd pine
Dawg, u even multidot nightblade these days and ignore fat shuriken combod evises
dire spoke
wat
elfin fossil
Nb is SUCH a boring dot
dire spoke
I guess Shadow Satyr's Walk extra energy refund is mainly allowing multidot
shrewd pine
? Satyr doesnt proc from SStorm
shrewd pine
Lol
charred moat
sleek iron
charred moat
Ive gotten about 10 210s
charred moat
Think the best I got overall is a 235 on a chest
grim jay
got 240 wrists tho
charred moat
And I did get a 245 neck from raid finder argus
grim jay
lol
exotic glen
probably
patent topaz
sounds about right
exotic glen
you do know assa has the lowest apm in the game right
patent topaz
I wouldnt worry about anything until the 1st week of mythic raiding
dire spoke
...
tepid socket
yes i know that sin has the lowest apm, but i've stopped playing sin since MoP , except PvP
hollow otter
What's apm mean?
exotic glen
actions per minute
the amount of buttons you press during a fight
assa has about 40 actions per minute
exotic glen
not necessarily
exotic glen
assa is still easy, but you cant always attribute it to low apm
shy axle
@tepid socket well not so different to the way you played assa like forever
quick egret
What 'Sin legendaries are best for levelling?
pastel vault
LOL that waiting time
vernal atlas
question, to ensure that I don't need to refresh rupture during tb window, I have to refresh it before even when its above the 8secs right? because otherwise I run in the danger of either dropping it in the tb window or shortly after.... and since delaying tb is not an option...
quartz depot
yes
vernal atlas
k, thx
limber lion
As a mythic raider there's no point doing the world quests, right? My artifact weapon is pretty high up there already, surely worls quest drops can't outscale it.
tranquil silo
Tf
shrewd night
The chances of you being able to replace both of your artifact with high TF weapons is so low that you may as well ignore them.
tranquil silo
Chase that carrot
limber lion
Figured as much.
steep obsidian
if you are really lucky you can ge a stupid tf one but yeh
its only 210 base so pretty pointless
i saw a ret using a 265 aggramar weapon
the one that people use for the fire mog
that pretty funny
solemn turtle
hey guys does vendetta empower your dots such as garrote and rupture? according to icy veins, you use vendetta when u have finished to aplly this dots so I guess not
last whale
Thats not the point.
Point is that you dot them first, restealth and then open with the burst.
quick egret
Guys any suggestions on levelling legendaries for Sin Rogue? I'm pretty new to the class so just reading and learning as much as I can atm
last whale
Hence using vendetta then and not on start.
last whale
I an talking about pvp tho.
solemn turtle
and pve?
last whale
But i assume it's same for pve. You want those dots on for energy reg
solemn turtle
the thing I want to know if vendetta snapshots garrote and rapture
the same way for feral i think does
last whale
Its all dmg.
solemn turtle
therefore it does not snapshot and u better use vendetta with multilates and envenoms
placid atlas
Shoulders and sephuz are nice for lvling for the initial burst and added haste+move speed
quick egret
How about the back with the hidden blades talent for clearing mobs whilst levelling. plus Sephuz?
strange python
as far as I know "snapshotting" only exists for ferals (Tigers Fury and Bloodtalons). So your DoT's should tick dynamically when Vendetta is up
placid atlas
The back is nice if you can use it on larger packs but with many ppl there dont think it will be that usefull
dusty steppe
hey guys. is there a good up to date guide for pvp?
dusty steppe
okay
exotic glen
back + hidden blades got nerfed, they stack additively now, not multiplicatively
its still big aoe burst, but you're better off playing any other setup
quick egret
Ooo ok, so shoulders and sephuz is the go to now? I know Killjaedans got nerfed too, so I wont pick that
exotic glen
people have very different opinions on that
personally yes, shoulders sephuz is what ill be using most likely
but a lot say like cinidaria, insignia, kjbw, bracers
quick egret
Ooo yeah I was reading about those, I was swaying towards shoulders and sephuz before, so I'll stick with that. Thanks for the help and clearing up the back + hidden blades nerf!
exotic glen
you got it dude, anytime
pine path
PapaSmurf
sonic iris
Why can't I post in the quick question channel
sonic iris
How do I get role
dire spoke
You read the pinned messages like it was suggested to you
exotic glen
there isnt really anything useful to his situation in pins tho
exotic glen
go to the botspam channel
type ?x role
also, before you ask your question, read the guides and pins
dire spoke
What do I know what's in the newbies pins and how it works
placid egret
dire spoke
I assumed that the pins mention roles and how to get it because you obviously need a role for access 🤷🏻
if it's not like that it doesn't make sense
barf.
lone junco
I assume nothing in the pins is useful lol
exotic glen
no one knows whats in the pins, yet its the only thing some people can answer to everything
lone junco
that post from fuu is good tho
exotic glen
effort ew
lone junco
i have plenty of effort
and am def getting better at ignoring the white name questions. It hurts my brain to talk about the #385145484559253506
dire spoke
using access in this context 8| I think I need to talk with don this could be so much easier
w/e offtopic
summer yoke
thoughts on best horde race for rogues now?
@supple hearth whats your thought? doesn't matter too much anymore?
supple hearth
@summer yoke doesn't matter as much
supple hearth
The DPS difference is so minimal and it depends on spec so if you're a main and ur swapping specs there's really no need to worry about those sims unless ur at the level where u want to throw down race changes every time you swap specs lol
Just go for the utility / aesthetics you like best
summer yoke
@shrewd night i've read the pins, just gathering more opinions
@supple hearth thanks bro, will help me with my choice
rare oar
w
dire spoke
a
dire spoke
I'm taz'dingo since 12y
supple hearth
I'm blood elf ATM but will likely be orc or zandalari
noble crescent
still counting on that playable sethrak reveal
gritty quarry
Aren't Horde getting Vulpera? I wonder if their racials will be something useful
noble crescent
most likely horde vulpera alliance sethrak
placid egret
I've heard people say Vulpera are going to be alliance, neutral, and horde. Is there really any hints towards either side?
devout temple
dire spoke
@summer yoke check out the BFA Preparation Guide linked in #announcements
placid egret
Assa has always been extremely low compared to others
not all that surprising that it would stay that low
^
night breach
do you crimson tempest on ST if you spec the talent?
wheat zealot
No
summer yoke
@dire spoke thanks
dire spoke
yw xoxo
summer yoke
that guide is amazing