so that's a big rip
#assassination
runic hinge
What was I playing
warm vortex
Resto druid
storm forum
tony would never craft an int weapon
runic hinge
That’s true
Ignore my priest
That I do 1 10 a week on
This week the MC got bricked before second boss so we didn’t get a vault but what can you do
humble verge
how
slim pebble
Servers up?
golden loom
What was the reaction to this 
humble verge
2sec
humble verge
pass me a usagi
warm vortex
Amazing
lavish hazel
ok guys what is the fok single target topic
ive heard about this
is it a true thing ?
worn geyser
ok guys what is the fok single target topic
fok till 3 stack of buff then mut gg
on DS no blindside
worn geyser
anytime fok in st just doesnt feel right
vestal wren
basically, what i am saying is, we usually saw talent adjustments every time storm became the main builder
historically
storm forum
all they need to do is buff blindside to the point that we can't not take it
humble verge
i agree
spice surge
Its also so jank how theres a bunch of talents that buff FoK but not CT
runic hinge
how
Idk bro. It was crazy bad. Tank died like 3 times off the rip first boss got a Rez off it wasn’t my key and it got voted to abandon so I said fuck it
humble verge
Idk bro. It was crazy bad. Tank died like 3 times off the rip first boss got a R...
icl thats kinda crazy
latent kernel
i dont understand the mentality of trying to revive a hero talent by giving one of the best prio dmg specs more prio dmg
grave nova
are we pressing tempest everytime we refresh a new dot?
even if the other has a while left
dim yacht
anyone know if bonus rolled items can proc tert stats? never seen anyone get one yet
spice surge
All of them should have the same timer
grave nova
All of them should have the same timer
im doing something wrong then
spice surge
As in
If you need to refresh on your maintarget
You need to refresh on all the other mobs too
grave nova
ive just had times where garrote needs a refresh and rupture is at like 12-14
grave nova
ok so rupturing early is fine to do
i figured because of the extra energy you spend having to press tempest over fok
dim yacht
yup, thats what i got from that conversation
i dont think the extra energy means too much in big pulls at least, you pretty much have unlimited energy anyway
but there are times when i start running dry when a pull is finishing up but stuff is still alive. sometimes i dont respread because theyre dying and the energy cost is so high
robust inlet
anyone know if bonus rolled items can proc tert stats? never seen anyone get one...
can confirm, i've gotten it on 3 bonus rolls so far between the priest and rogue
dim yacht
or more specifically, i wont to respread garrotes, just garrote main target and leave it at that, because having ruptures up still gives the bonus from scent of blood
dim yacht
can confirm, i've gotten it on 3 bonus rolls so far between the priest and rogue
wish that were me, ty
storm forum
Every time I've rolled a duplicate item it rolled with terts
waxen oyster
my box rolled speed gloves rolled indest chest rolled avoidance
storm forum
Makes me feel better about losing my rolls
lavish hazel
You need to refresh on all the other mobs too
fok build sucks on this iteration of assa
if we have to play ds in high key its just less qol then fb
worn geyser
i just tried a 20 skyreach as DS and spamming fok like that ST feels insane
i feel like im trolling everytime i hit it
vestal wren
^
royal lantern
^
i mean, yeha
FoK/storm as builder in ST means something is broken on a fundamental level tbh
vestal wren
To be fair, it was part of the initial DS design
with a steroid buff for fok instead of the now passive damage increase
royal lantern
yeha but thats different
one is a buff that literally had the goal to make you use it in ST
rn its just "yeha it does so much dmg that you use it"
vestal wren
I think the problem is hero talent and recent design just is less focused
night delta
why the % buff on a fundamentally AoE spell can't be "when x hits more than 1 target" is beyond me.
vestal wren
which means a lot of little problems pop up based on design decisions, which would be in need to be iterated on
it isn't a rogue only problem tho, midnight just changed too much too significant
pulsar ether
does anyone have the talent for M+ with DS? or is the one in sin faq the current one?
wanton spear
wait so do we play ds now? or is fb still the play for M+
vestal wren
both work, deathstalker could become more popular for prio damage
so, play it if you want
but there is no need to switch if you don't
wanton spear
thx fuu, i shall stick to my same ole farm spec for M+ till otherwise noted lol
noble sleet
anybody have the talents for tomorrow reset?
vestal wren
same as before the reset
coral ibex
anybody have the talents for tomorrow reset?
noble sleet
ty
vestal wren
he possibly means raid tho
noble sleet
i mean mostly for deathstalker if there is gonna be some massive dps diff
raid aswell
vestal wren
whispyr summarized it well in the pin, the change mainly makes the two hero talents closer
waxen oyster
yeah 8 years ago
fallow canopy
vestal wren
it was actually still good for it after
waxen oyster
ehh
leaden anvil
Its all preference now
vestal wren
depends on what patch we talk
waxen oyster
anyone who said you should press evis over bp on 5t
to funnel in sl
im sending a pipebomb in their mailbox
ingame ofc
vestal wren
e.g. in TWW, trickster kept our prio damage quite high
tho blizz removed that with the nimble flury rework
waxen oyster
i remember when they buffed nimble to compensate for that
then nerfed nimble
a month later
vestal wren
I expected that
vestal wren
just hoped everyone else who did not was correct
vestal wren
I think it needs something for m+
nimble, as stupid as it sounds
gave a nice dynamic
just sad that subtlety isn't allowed to have nice things
i think its fun if you do a few keys
noble sleet
but question towards deathstalker is gonna be more usefull for paladins or just stick with fatebound?
vestal wren
but it gets quite repetitive if you play more than like 3 keys
humble verge
shy axle
what makes fok better than mut until 3 stacks of the mark are consumed due to unshakeable drive ? Just interested in the process behind it
vestal wren
what makes fok better than mut until 3 stacks of the mark are consumed due to un...
there are a lot of talents increasing fok damage, and they just buffed one of them even higher
fallow canopy
probably damage vs energy efficiency, for the unshakeable thing its just the 2 stacks consumed is a lot of extra damage
ds has ctw
and the other one
momentum of despair
worn geyser
i feel like its odd that it uses a 2nd stack of unshakeable for the offhand portion of mut, the talent for it does not even kinda imply it works like this at all
spice surge
Correct
To me the talent also reads like its always 50%, but each attack consumes one stack
But instead its 150%, but you consume one stack per hit
For sub the clones also eat stacks
worn geyser
fallow canopy
For sub the clones also eat stacks
do they gain damage?
coral ibex
just learned arcane mage passively drains mana to 0 with no inputs because blizz set their passive mana regen to a negative integer
spice surge
do they gain damage?
Yesnt
fresh kelp
hmm
fallow canopy
there's a lot of spaguetti going around
spice surge
So like 100 strike > 50 clone.
With 150% damage its 250 strike > 125 clone., not 250 clone. But it still eats 2 stacks
fresh kelp
just learned arcane mage passively drains mana to 0 with no inputs because blizz...
they fixed this within an hour
but it was very funny
fallow canopy
So like 100 strike > 50 clone.
With 150% damage its 250 strike > 125 clone., not...
shadowstrike doesn't have weird mh/oh interactions like mutilate right?
spice surge
(clones actually do way more than 50%, but for simplicitys sake i had it at that for this example)
spice surge
shadowstrike doesn't have weird mh/oh interactions like mutilate right?
It does not
fallow canopy
i c
worn geyser
3 stacks makes the mut do 150% then 100% on offhand iirc , if yo consume at 2 it would be 100% then 50% offhand i believe
storm forum
does it just not stack to 4 then?
storm forum
god this is so stupid
11/10
god bless you tcs for finding the most fucked up cursed build that im never going to use effectively
night delta
it's just baffling how this was programmed to work
shy axle
can you track that talent with cdm?
fallow canopy
yes
worn geyser
ye idk how the rogue tcs find this stuff
fallow canopy
its on the cdm
shy axle
thank you
fallow canopy
whisp has a cool video about it
if you are interested
also has an entertaining descent into madness
worn geyser
frowntain cook on this one is honestly pretty cool he found but like also its crazy it works like this
snow kindle
why is it crazy
storm forum
cause normally buffs are like locked to their value
worn geyser
well, to me its cause it results in me pressing fok on DS in ST, but also cause the talent doesnt mention anything regarding affecting the OH on mut
fallow canopy
me thinks its just a consequence of the ctw rework being just straight up flat fok dmg instead of a proc like before
storm forum
like 1 stack should just be +50% when its consumed
fallow canopy
and someone overlooked some things
storm forum
or if it consumed all the stacks, +50% per stack
for some reason this one does +50% per stack, but only consumed 1 stack
worn geyser
me thinks its just a consequence of the ctw rework being just straight up flat f...
who could have seen fok single target tech DS coming 
spice surge
Tbf it is mostly about unshakable being jank
fallow canopy
Tbf it is mostly about unshakable being jank
true
the number being double(?)
also its crazy
perfect spaguetti storm
snow kindle
So I understand the concept, but whats making it do more dps?
Is it like applying 150% to a mutilate instead of 50
fallow canopy
But instead its 150%, but you consume one stack per hit
read this
weary stump
Blizzard should make it so ctw only works in raid if no one else in your group is looking at your character
snow kindle
what is ctw
weary stump
Clear the witnesses
snow kindle
leaden anvil
What’s DN?
coral ibex
marsh fjord
What’s DN?
Darkest night 
storm forum
crit damage gem simming highest for me now pog
latent kernel
I like how they buffed deathstalker to make it viable but just made it even shittier than it already was with the FOK single target gimmick
untold flume
I like how they buffed deathstalker to make it viable but just made it even shit...
I was going to ask if the changes are live and if anyone's tested them out. . . seams like yes, and they're $#i+ . . .
latent kernel
Also the arcane mage bug with having 0 mana is hilarious
vital flicker
I like how they buffed deathstalker to make it viable but just made it even shit...
technically the FoK ST gimmick was in the game before these buffs
latent kernel
Well since blizzard designs entirely around open world daily quests the talents are actually pretty nice
I really feel like a deathstalker when I two shot an open world mana wyrm
warm vortex
He had it coming
Also i love how both specs i've played at one point this tier have had a mark gimmick that would be better as a buff
latent kernel
Would be cool if blizzard gave assassination a hero spec that made since thematically to play with instead of weird mark that does plague dmg and coin flipper
I’ve been thinking this since TWW, ah yes on my poison and bleed spec, let me get plague dmg mark or coins lmao
haughty flicker
i mean deathstalker is fine thematically
its just not fun
you assassinate a target with plague damage
haughty flicker
i mean deathstalkers are undead
they love plague
plus it just works mechanically
spice surge
Stalking one target to kill it feels very on brand
haughty flicker
bc its nature + shadow
warm vortex
Plague dmg just feels weird tbh
I mean
latent kernel
I understand that, which is why I don’t get why my human rogue is a “deathstalker”
haughty flicker
well thats not an issue with deathstalker
latent kernel
Like if you’re playing undead then yeah cool deathstalker
warm vortex
Also hi bel
haughty flicker
thats an issue with hero talents in general
why does the orc hunter summon a sentinel owl
latent kernel
why does the orc hunter summon a sentinel owl
Completely agree here as well
latent kernel
It just doesn’t make sense thematically for 20 other races to me
warm vortex
I mean BM
I could understand it being like a wild owl maybe
imagine if it was like
a pirate owl
that dropped bombs
survival flavour
haughty flicker
i mean i feel like the thematic of an assassin using a combination of nature and shadow damage isnt far off even if you arent undead
that seems fine to me
its far from the most egregious
warm vortex
Also
latent kernel
100% but the death stalkers are a specific organization in lore
warm vortex
I'm benched on reclear and im watching CoC prog thinking "I'm so happy im not there"
waxen oyster
exists
warm vortex
Graf
haughty flicker
yeah compared to fatebound its not even close
latent kernel
you mfs arguing deathstalker
Only arguing deathstalker because there’s 0 argument to even be made for fatebound lmao
Shit genuinely makes 0 sense
warm vortex
Graf
latent kernel
Only conclusion is blizzard put the names into the old AI robot
waxen oyster
Names
latent kernel
Hero spec names
waxen oyster
or class tuning?
latent kernel
And concepts
warm vortex
Graf
latent kernel
Probably everything at this point
warm vortex
Idk i just like saying your name i hope your day is going well :D
latent kernel
I really only play rogue so I didn’t realize how weird a lot of these hero class identities actually are for different races
warm vortex
I mean they'll AI run everything
latent kernel
Only option is to race change to undead so deathstalker makes sense
So I can atleast lore max during the shitty gameplay
vestal wren
blizz just needs to finally rework/buff the UD race ability
chrome plume
enjoy touch of the grave doing zdam
vestal wren
it's like heavily undertuned for years now
also will does not even work on everyhting its said to
vestal wren
this is a 50/50 for example
latent kernel
this is a 50/50 for example
The other issue is that blizz doesn’t make nearly as many charm and sleep mechanics in PVE as they used to
chrome plume
plus the random horrifies
vestal wren
The other issue is that blizz doesn’t make nearly as many charm and sleep mechan...
this makes it worse
because the few times you could utialize it
it might not work
warm vortex
If undead got full flesh
Just make them un
latent kernel
That’s what I was saying, it used to be good in like TBC classic and wrath because blizzard used to really diversify what kind of spells you’d face on pve
royal lantern
enjoy touch of the grave doing zdam
hey hey, dont make it sound worse then it is
sometimes it also breaks your stealth because using stealth counts as a ability
latent kernel
Now it’s basically fear and stun
waxen oyster
Oh is that why
these "random unstealth" complaints i hear
are usually undead boomers
flint siren
Plague dmg just feels weird tbh
I think some magic type combinations just have set names like that
Like nature + shadow = plague, nature + fire = volcanic
kinda restrictive though in theme
compared to frostfire or spellfrost or such more generic ones
warm vortex
hey hey, dont make it sound worse then it is
sometimes it also breaks your stea...
??????????????????????????????????????????
flint siren
and sin + sub = nature + shadow ig
waxen oyster
its s shame since female undead has one of the best finisher animations in the game
chrome plume
truke i love female undead evis
flint siren
oh. that is good to know, leveling one rn. 
latent kernel
Why did people even used to go undead back in classic and tbc for rogue anyways? Wasn’t troll and orc better racial for dmg anyways
Was it literally just for pvp
waxen oyster
pvp
royal lantern
Why did people even used to go undead back in classic and tbc for rogue anyways?...
it was 2004
warm vortex
Yknow what
royal lantern
edgy was REALLY cool at that time
royal lantern
and undead is the peak edgy race
royal lantern
and tbh, atleast back in vanilla/tbc, cannabilise was not even that bad
cus out of combat healing was a thing some classes just didnt had at all outside of food
waxen oyster
Wow players will unironically talk about how "horde" they are.
....while playing an elf.
royal lantern
....while playing an elf.
nah, those people still scream "blood elves are not a REAL horde race" in 2026
warm vortex
Wow players will unironically talk about how "horde" they are.
I remember seeing a reddit post with an orc and a blood elf couple
and top comment was "spot the orc supremacist out of these two"
untold flume
I really feel like a deathstalker when I two shot an open world mana wyrm
Astalor Approves this message.
royal lantern
the amount of "where is the horde in midnight?????????" reddit posts is insane
waxen oyster
This is the game that has vulpera
warm vortex
They want a racist orc leader wym
waxen oyster
they want to live in mud huts
warm vortex
The only horde races are troll, orc and red orc
waxen oyster
guys who talk about needing to play a big muscly race like orc
I just question how dl they are.
deep latch
Anyone try the DS build yet? Cringe but good or cringe and bad
royal lantern
This is the game that has vulpera
i mean, vulpera are a race that really fits in the "OG Old Horde" concept
like, they are less goofy then Goblins or Gnomes, and have the entire "shamanistic roots and fought against oppression" theme that Orcs/Trolls/Tauren shared at the beginning
warm vortex
i mean, vulpera are a race that really fits in the "OG Old Horde" concept
like,...
Also they had a reason to join the horde afaik
Didn't the alliance just burn their homes and shit
latent kernel
I miss the days when blizzard made races that were easily identified by their silhouettes
royal lantern
Didn't the alliance just burn their homes and shit
nah, its literally just "you guys helped us and we allready had a trade alliance with the zandalari, so mightaswell make it offical"
random pelican
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stats
You will always get more accurate results using Raidbots Top Gear, as stat values will flucuate depending on gear and situation.
Agility (Item level) > Crit > Haste > Mastery >>>> Vers
The ratio between secondaries ends up being roughly 40/33/26/1
royal lantern
feels like a looney tunes episode
tbf, thats the point
like, goblins are supposed to be a Anti-Serious Race
same with Gnomes really
warm vortex
If you play blood elf you have no testicles
royal lantern
fuckers that only play elves will tell somebody how playing human is boring while literally running around as a Human with Pointy Ears in every game
royal lantern
and if they cant make their human with pointy ears look like a generic pretty girl they get a stroke
fallow canopy
and if they cant make their human with pointy ears look like a generic pretty gi...
why you calling me out on a tuesday afternoon
waxen oyster
Like why is the male human model in wow
royal lantern
elves are basically humans but with less roided builds
"less roided" when the wow elves still have a bodybuilder bodyframe 
waxen oyster
so unnecessarily buff?
Yeah they are too
though male nelf just looks fucking stupid
Look how stiff their animations are.
latent kernel
elves are basically humans but with less roided builds
I love the giga test human model
royal lantern
so unnecessarily buff?
its just the games style
latent kernel
Jokes on you my character model is bald lmao
royal lantern
WoW is very exxagerated in everything really
royal lantern
all Characters have limbs that are 2x bigger then they should be, armor has HUGE pieces, weapons are big
its just the blizzard style for wow
vital flicker
so unnecessarily buff?
I would argue it is neccesary since a lot of them are weilding sword that are like 5 feet long
latent kernel
When are they going to add bbl option
waxen oyster
I would argue it is neccesary since a lot of them are weilding sword that are li...
not rogue
or mages
haughty flicker
i mean most daggers in this game would be heavy as fuck
and with how fast you swing them
waxen oyster
i mean most daggers in this game would be heavy as fuck
hey don't call out pvpers like that
royal lantern
i mean most daggers in this game would be heavy as fuck
the average WoW dagger would be called a broadsword irl
latent kernel
Add bbl and /mew command and I will complain less about deathstalker I promise blizzard
waxen oyster
you know they cant see past their cursed visions of sargeras
with mismatched tcg tabards and bright enchants
royal lantern
with mismatched tcg tabards and bright enchants
i like how every raidteam has one of those
OR a guy that doesnt tmog anythign because "i only care about stuff that improves my character"
and they are always one of the most Mid players imaginable
not BAD, but legit just existing
waxen oyster
OR a guy that doesnt tmog anythign because "i only care about stuff that improve...
these are worse
vital flicker
OR a guy that doesnt tmog anythign because "i only care about stuff that improve...
If you look good, you play good
royal lantern
If you look good, you play good
thats why @normal mist is the goat
vestal wren
a decent housing setup increases your dps too
normal mist
thats why <@256188402116984832> is the goat
strange onyx
a decent housing setup increases your dps too
show url house bro
vestal wren
i only made a temporary house in pre patch/early midnight
vestal wren
and thought i would re-dop it once i had more rooms/decor
tho, i think thats for a lot of players
the time to get levels was so slow, the motivation faded
snow kindle
Im missing how using FOK in ST with this build does more dam
Ts takes forever to build and it consumes 2 stacks
spice surge
Fan does more damage than mutilate, and when you do get to mutilate it does more damage
haughty flicker
spice surge
It gives less combo points yes, but its also cheaper
hazy sundial
!up
prisma monolithBOT
lyric sierra
asked yesterday but noone answered:
is a sudden demise build for lower keys (+10) out of the window? can no longer find it on wowhead guide.
normal mist
asked yesterday but noone answered:
is a sudden demise build for lower keys (+1...
im pretty sure its there
and you can probably use it up to 16s with how much dmg people have rn with all the 298 items
lyric sierra
to me it looks like „use default m+ fatebound build always“
normal mist
The build is there, it's safe to use up to like 16s
lyric sierra
From wowhead guide:
With the changes to Assassination Rogue in Midnight, the "Bleed Build" of the past is not considered viable outside of low-end dungeons, where Sudden Demise can wreak havoc. Instead of that, we're going to be employing a heavier focus on our single target damage while maintaining close to maximum AoE.
—-
Talent build:
Sometimes you just want to have fun in your weekly +10 keys, and enemies are dying way too quickly. Especially in Season 1 of Midnight, dungeons have a much lower health pool than in previous seasons. If you're trying out the spec and want to get Sudden Demise into the mix, this would be the way to do it!
This build is NOT recommended for keys above the 10-12 range, as it performs worse in every situation compared to the recommended build. The only upside of this build is the addition of Sudden Demise to make yourself look better on those meters.
normal mist
Talent build:
Sometimes you just want to have fun in your weekly +10 keys, and ...
From the guy that wrote the guide from wowhead
that was 4 days ago
worn geyser
with all the extra gear since that portion of the guide on wowhead was written, its def good up to that range
hazy sundial
When i reach 285ilvl and get the achivement, do i get a discount for my alts or that character as well? meaning will i get discounted price between 285 and 290?
normal mist
isnt the achiev "not requiring" myth crests for any upgrade? i can't remember
fallow canopy
When i reach 285ilvl and get the achivement, do i get a discount for my alts or...
your alts will get a discount on any piece your main has higher ilvl
hard mason
Its only a discount on items upgraded. You gotta upgrade all items on main to benefit fully on alt
fallow canopy
and vice versa
hazy sundial
im asking about my main, do i get a discount when upgrading between 285ilvl to 290?
i dont have alts
fallow canopy
no
waxen oyster
unless you upgrade the slot on an alt first
drifting cloud
the achiev does nothing for 1 char people
hard mason
Got my own dk from 250 to 282 in 3 days after achivement
fallow canopy
hazy sundial
trim cairn
From the guy that wrote the *guide* from wowhead
Ye but the SD build in pins is just worse than it has to be on top of everything tho
normal mist
Ye but the SD build in pins is just worse than it has to be on top of everything...
I have no idea what you mean
stuck lodge
Guys I think I'm finally capped. 290 Item level and my gear is basically bis (except for the stuff from M march, that probably aint happening)
I can finally raid log
main bobcat
haughty flicker
trim cairn
Gonna sound real arrogant lol but
Just that the SD build in pins is pretty bad for what it's supposed to be so the creator might not be the best source of information on the viability of SD in keys
trim cairn
Whispyr might be a gigabrain but he hasn't been in the trenches with shitters like me minmaxing suboptimal builds
trim cairn
It's not good compared to what a good SD build is
trim cairn
I mean the build in the pins is specifically for low m+ keys so yeah 😛
normal mist
@balmy condor get your shit together and use his build mate what are you doing
your SD builds sucks
stuck lodge
Is there a better build for 10-12s SD?
because shit dies before my KB pops with the normal build
normal mist
Thats why SD is good on those keys
strange onyx
Frixx is back
marsh fjord
This conversation reminds me of last season that some people and i wont say names wanted to cook with fatebound in m+ 
fallow canopy
Frixx is back
is he your best disciple?
trim cairn
Don't associate me with him please
stuck lodge
Thats why SD is good on those keys
I haven't really seen a big DPS overall jumps with the SD build on wowhead
trim cairn
I haven't really seen a big DPS overall jumps with the SD build on wowhead
How much dps are you doing and with what ilvl?
fallow canopy
Nah, he is not an acolyte of mine
I see keep on mister loa
trim cairn
Sudden demise should be blasting mobs for 300k+ average across the dungeon, up to 1.2m per pop
strange onyx
SD build is fun, but if you learning to play assa it teaches you bad habits
trim cairn
Yeah you need to play assa badly to play good SD build
stuck lodge
Normal build is like 140-160ish overall? I'm 290 ilvl and it varies a lot based on comp and key level
sometimes a BM hunter is just like
trim cairn
SD build won't ever beat regular build on high keys
stuck lodge
ripping
trim cairn
But on low keys regular build feels sad
normal mist
SD build won't ever beat regular build on high keys
no one talked about high keys
worn geyser
whats your SD talent build i wanna see the cook
stuck lodge
Yeah I'm specifically looking for a low key SD build that is supposed to steal dps
trim cairn
u wont see dps increase with SD
stuck lodge
I'm talking 10-12's
I thought the whole point of SD is to pump on those low levels lol
trim cairn
Yeah on 10-12s SD will pump more than regular build
strange onyx
I got a 99 parse in a 20, yeah I kind of a big deal 🤠
trim cairn
With a good tank you'll be blasting 200k+ overall dps
stuck lodge
Yeah thats what I'm saying, I haven't really seen much of an increase from 10-12's using the SD build on wowhead
maybe I'm doing it wrong though, idk
strange onyx
SD been tearing it up in 6s, my 290 rogue is smoking these Meta specs in their 255 ilvl
trim cairn
Well you need to imagine that you are trying to play regular build badly
Good meme but SD would be ass in a 6 key
You'd get 0 value out of SD
Not even pad value
strange onyx
Hahah
trim cairn
Lmao
Refresh bleeds before execute threshhold so you get max duration bleeds up before execute window
trim cairn
coral ibex
we're yapping for going on 10 minutes now about an alternative talent build for weekly m+ keys that are over in about as much time
strange onyx
Go subterfuge for more garrote spam
strange onyx
we're yapping for going on 10 minutes now about an alternative talent build for ...
You need to let him tire himself out
trim cairn
It's okay
normal mist
why do you even have amp
trim cairn
20% rupture damage
waxen oyster
you cant path into avulsion
trim cairn
below it
strange onyx
After sporefall he gonna be back with even higher numbers made up 💰. Invest now
trim cairn
strange onyx
That’s photoshopped buddy
strange onyx
The lines are wobbly
trim cairn
its sad
strange onyx
Different font than normal
trim cairn
blazing kayak
what 4 set pieces do u ideally want as sin and what 5th non tier piece. is there anything people are aiming for specifically
spark scaffold
how many CT do you guys usually do on first pull academy before popping DM?
balmy condor
what 4 set pieces do u ideally want as sin and what 5th non tier piece. is there...
can equip whatever really
a lot of helm off piece
but you can drop the legs if you want
secondaries are basically meaningless since you can just fix whatever "bad" stats with enchants and crafted stats and whatever
balmy condor
how many CT do you guys usually do on first pull academy before popping DM?
depends how long everything is alive for and how it's grouped
if your kb won't last, you should cd
balmy condor
then why you asking us
spark scaffold
i'm sure this has been thought about before and its 2 am
balmy condor
I mean the thought is if you can get more scent stacks without losing any cd uptime
then that's just better
blazing kayak
would 5 set be troll? cuz atm my off piece is a crafted piece but i ideally want 289 on legs right? i dont have any other helms tho
spark scaffold
so 5 then DM
balmy condor
sure
balmy condor
would 5 set be troll? cuz atm my off piece is a crafted piece but i ideally want...
nope thats fine
blazing kayak
i would have to swap my embellishment from legs to like
the hero ring ig
or maybe cloak
blazing kayak
fk my bracers are myth track with bracers tho
spark scaffold
also just because im doing 22s does not mean i can't learn from this disocrd
balmy condor
also just because im doing 22s does not mean i can't learn from this disocrd
that's true, but for timing things that are so specific I feel like you're the expert not me 
spark scaffold
yea maybe, doesn't hurt to ask 
blazing kayak
should i do bracers > cloak even if my bracers are socketed u think
balmy condor
you would sim it
balmy condor
but like at the end of your journey it should be dagger/wrist
spark scaffold
this season feels so bad from a tankiness perspective
balmy condor
how you get there with uncapped crests and infinite rerolls is up to you
spark scaffold
you just die to air sometimes, gotta keep that 36% feint uptime
balmy condor
yeh
feels like m+ tuning is swinging back to defensiveness more than timer pressure idk
spark scaffold
is there even any class with less passive DR than assa rn
balmy condor
mage probably
spark scaffold
ngl i've not seen an arcane mage this tier yet
balmy condor
the assa spec tree is a bit strange though imo
like there is a single non-throughput talent
and it's shadowstep cdr or iron wire
which is just 
spark scaffold
yeah wish iron wire worked with CT
i don't even feel like that would be over the top
spark scaffold
also looking at pins, my problem right now is that i have too much prio damage, but i really wanna try deathstalker
balmy condor
but that giga high end of m+ is always kinda jank tuning wise
like at some point the scaling just gets messy
spark scaffold
if my group focuses same target as i do, which is the case in a lot of pulls, i don't get the full DM off
spark scaffold
i've put a marker on deathmark and told them to swap off that marker whenever its up 
but some pulls you can't really help it
grave nova
Anyone know how many seconds its on to desync kingsbane from mark?
spice surge
Speed shroud should just be in the class tree, also idk why sub randomly gets 2 strong defensive talents in their spec tree
balmy condor
Anyone know how many seconds its on to desync kingsbane from mark?
you would never cast deathmark without kingsbane
iron thorn
Or outlaw flat 5% stam
grave nova
you would never cast deathmark without kingsbane
I know, but sometimes kingsbane is up and you cant press it
spice surge
Assa gets 2x the value from leeching poison, but thats not enough
grave nova
How many seconds is ok to wait for kingsbane for mark window if any
spark scaffold
mfw arcane smash one shots me on a 20 without feint
balmy condor
I mean there's no rule for that
snow kindle
How many seconds is ok to wait for kingsbane for mark window if any
Extremely fight dependent
coral ibex
you should be pressing kb on cd unless something specific causes you not to
grave nova
Theres been several times today when a pack is finishing as kings comes off cd and i gotta wait for rp
coral ibex
press dm kb
1m later press kb
repeat
balmy condor
Theres been several times today when a pack is finishing as kings comes off cd a...
just hit kb anyway honestly
wind totem
wrists
Wouldnt cloak be better? You have easy access to myth track wrists with good stats from Voracious whereas teh cloak you gotta bonus roll MT.
snow kindle
Press KB use death mark during execute EZ
grave nova
So holding mark for 10-15 seconds should be ok vs missing an entire kings?
snow kindle
So holding mark for 10-15 seconds should be ok vs missing an entire kings?
Fight dependent bro
balmy condor
Wouldnt cloak be better? You have easy access to myth track wrists with good sta...
yeh if they're raiding probably fair
balmy condor
i feel like most of KB dmg without deathmark is just the initial hit
it is
apex lashes carry kinda hard
spice surge
you gotta know what's coming up and what you're gonna deathmark
Me personally, i wait for the mobs to get low so my negotiable contract doubles all my sudden demise damage
spark scaffold
yeah so i just send even if i don't fully get it off to prevent desync
balmy condor
Me personally, i wait for the mobs to get low so my negotiable contract doubles ...
this is why the wowhead sudden demise build is bad I guess
spice surge
I genuinely think that synergy is cool, it should be on the rupture damage, baked in sudden demise or something instead of a piss choice node
spark scaffold
sudden demise is a very cool talent conceptually
spark scaffold
would be nice if it was not a capstone
normal mist
this is why the wowhead sudden demise build is bad I guess
You are not a trenches player
trim cairn
lmao
Nah its because you are gaining less than 2k ST damage to drop 20% rupture damage for aoe
balmy condor
would be nice if it was not a capstone
yeh the problem is like how do you quantify it as a talent
spark scaffold
do you think you could proc darkest night off critters? 
balmy condor
you can
mortal crag
Whats the trenches now?
balmy condor
they can be debuffed
fallow canopy
Has science gone too far?
spark scaffold
that sounds very degen though
balmy condor
Nah its because you are gaining less than 2k ST damage to drop 20% rupture damag...
are you willing to answer every question going forward about why a build without dtb is taking two poisons and what poison they should take
spark scaffold
brb making critter notes in MDT
fallow canopy
Timing +23 with the crittermaxxing tech
balmy condor
if you are willing, I'll make the change right now and ping/forward you every time it happens
if you're not willing
then for the love of god shut the fuck up and go play your game
haughty flicker
trim cairn
Unlike now where you have people coming in wondering why SD doesnt outperform the regular m+ build in low keys :p
balmy condor
it does
and I know that cause I fucking use it
it does what it needs to do, and it does so perfectly fine
I'm not going to start suggesting unintuitive min-maxes for a timmy doing his weekly 10's with pugs
and if you think I should, then you're truly delusional
trim cairn
Hoes mad
balmy condor
I'm not mad, I'm just tired of having you pretend like things are shit because it's 1% worse here and 2% better there but 4% worse here when it's doing exactly what it needs to be doing for the people that are looking for it
because you cannot fathom ever thinking beyond your thick ass skull
so I'm now being rude
in hopes to get through to you
trim cairn
You arent speaking to a mirror here pal
balmy condor
that I don't give a shit
you min-maxed a sub-optimal build, great, wonderful
go play that then
people should be empowered to play whatever it is they find fun
balmy condor
the build I'm suggesting is not markedly worse, and it doesn't involve unintuitive things like talenting amp and not taking it
and the core audience for that build
will not bother reading any nuance
so I will continue suggesting it
and you will continue saying it's shit to people who won't listen
and that's fine
but I need you to understand that the info I put out is done in that manner on purpose
iron thorn
Good for us if it is, no?
balmy condor
I don't think it attributes caustic, no
iron thorn
@mossy blade sorry for pang but ig that’s a question for you
balmy condor
residuals are always very strange
spark scaffold
Good for us if it is, no?
not good bad, just wanted to know for logs analysis
haughty flicker
this was updated last in april so i assume its still correct
so caustic seems like it should be fine
spice surge
Shadow Rupture Thats a tierset from S3 DF
iron thorn
Important
balmy condor
fate intertwined also doesn't exist anymore
spice surge
But yes im fairly sure caustic isnt attributed properly
haughty flicker
well thats why that ones under tww
spice surge
It did in tww im pretty sure
balmy condor
spice surge
But they changed caustic to no longer cancel out amps right in midnight
balmy condor
But they changed caustic to no longer cancel out amps right in midnight
would that affect aug
balmy condor
hm
haughty flicker
balmy condor
yeh that's what I thought
haughty flicker
rouge stealing shit unlucky
spice surge
Yeah i checked some manaforge logs
spark scaffold
spice surge
And its reattributing caustic
So the reverse target modifier change seems to have broken the reattributes
iron thorn
Delete that spec
Like to be for real, blizz could 100% keep the gameplay loop the exact same and just not have it revolve around other players right?
Like EM as the annoying maintenance buff
Okay but what would prescience do then
spice surge
<:ICANT:1063885246145245227>
Also a mystery why they removed the reversing
balmy condor
Like to be for real, blizz could 100% keep the gameplay loop the exact same and ...
I mean the "easy" solution is just make the player buffs a flat x% and then you can very easily reverse it back out
spice surge
Theres gonna be a boss in a dungeon/raid sometime this expac that has a big damage amp while adds are up
And assa is gonna absolutely destroy on that
balmy condor
or you do the prescience thing with it
and all your buffs are just
damage you deal, based on your groups damage
that can also be attributed easily, since you're the one doing the damage
the moment you do something more than that like giving a stat
it's cooked
like you're never going to reverse PI
it's just straight up not possible
iron thorn
What makes it so hard to reverse that dmg out in a non sim scenario
balmy condor
the sim values are controlled and reported over tens of thousands of pulls
latent kernel
why do we take flying daggers is it only to make FOK viable in ST? over the course of a dungeon does that really do more dmg than secondary or rank 1 fatal?
loud light
sim values are completely separate from what actually happened, depend on exactly when it gets cast, etc
balmy condor
why do we take flying daggers is it only to make FOK viable in ST? over the cour...
yes
like the sim has the ability to do the same pull 50k times, find out how much damage is being done
then do another 50k with PI
and compare the two
if you only have 1 pull
with a PI
iron thorn
Ah gotcha
jade grotto
I hate deathstalker but the defensive talent is so good to have I wish it was in the spec tree.
balmy condor
how are you determining how much the PI gave
plain thistle
guys I got PI last night on m lura progression 
balmy condor
like okay you get extra autos and tick rate on bleeds, that's the easy part
you just reverse out how many extra ticks you gave
iron thorn
guys I got PI last night on m lura progression <:poggers:652288776021999626>
That’s a) insane and b) great for you
balmy condor
but then like cast times?
spice surge
What makes it so hard to reverse that dmg out in a non sim scenario
As an example. How do you reverse the fact that a sub got an extra Secret Technique during shadow blades?
Do you remove the entire Sectech damage? But without PI the player wouldve used it after
plain thistle
That’s a) insane and b) great for you
when I swapped to shaman because ours cant raid for 3 days 
spice surge
So then the player is doing "less" damage because it got PI
balmy condor
As an example. How do you reverse the fact that a sub got an extra Secret Techni...
yeah or cooldown times like this
spice surge
Which isnt right either
latent kernel
also i saw the video about us wanting to get like 150-200 more haste for DS, but what's the reasoning for that? is there an ability or is it literally just everything all at once just makes haste a little more valuable on DS?
iron thorn
Still great @plain thistle
balmy condor
you PI a sub rogue and they get an extra sectec 90 seconds later
mossy blade
i smell feet
balmy condor
also i saw the video about us wanting to get like 150-200 more haste for DS, but...
hunt them down and you get a bunch of crit from deathstalker
spice surge
Theres similar stuff for other classes too, im just using rogues as an example
balmy condor
i smell feet
take a shower
mossy blade
sorry mb didnt know youre here, was about to cop out with "sorry wrong acc im whispyr on an alt"
iron thorn
Theres similar stuff for other classes too, im just using rogues as an example
Yeah that makes a lot of sense now
balmy condor
sorry mb didnt know youre here, was about to cop out with "sorry wrong acc im wh...
the yellow name doesn't work though 
latent kernel
last question, is the wowhead article updated with builds for DS for raid etc...? or is nothing changing anyways
loud light
easy solution for evaluating dps diff of PI on Sub, just output "bad idea buddy" and call it a day
balmy condor
last question, is the wowhead article updated with builds for DS for raid etc......
you don't play DS in raid so yes that's still all up to date
mossy blade
off i go finding a log with assa + rogue
balmy condor
DS has exactly one niche, and that's prio damage in high m+ keys if you aren't already drowning in prio damage
it's bad in literally every other situation
the only reason it does more damage in AoE, is because it's doing extra funnel damage
mossy blade
caustic spatter still doesnt reattribute
haughty flicker
loud light
gonna delete that high hp mob in 15 seconds and then wonder what to do with the rest of the pack
latent kernel
so its basically a high push build if you dont already have enough prio
balmy condor
correct
jade grotto
assassination must be the only spec in the game thats like "Well, pad damage matters a little"
haughty flicker
ok but if the prio target dies then my deathmark just moves
iron thorn
so its basically a high push build if you dont already have enough prio
If you’re too stubborn to play law I guess
latent kernel
assassination must be the only spec in the game thats like "Well, pad damage mat...
ret paladin enters the chat
haughty flicker
bc of my fancy new talent
balmy condor
ok but if the prio target dies then my deathmark just moves
or it bugs and doesn't
haughty flicker
haughty flicker
spice surge
DS has exactly one niche, and that's prio damage in high m+ keys if you aren't a...
So if i play demise with deathstalker i get to pad and prio at the same time 
The game hasnt witnesses this kind of technology before
balmy condor
So if i play demise with deathstalker i get to pad and prio at the same time <:H...
PoV I have rocks for brains and woke up from a coma
spice surge
PoV I have rocks for brains and woke up from a coma
Erhm its actually 3 separate peanuts, not rocks*
jade grotto
So if i play demise with deathstalker i get to pad and prio at the same time <:H...
TWW Called, bleed build is back. right?
balmy condor
hehe.... pee.....
latent kernel
PoV I have rocks for brains and woke up from a coma
if you got to redesign deathstalker (can completely get rid of all the deathstalkers mark shit) what would you design the hero talent to be?
balmy condor
I'd make it apply a dot instead personally
iron thorn
Just math guy
balmy condor
like I don't hate the theme of go assassinate a guy
that's fine
but getting stuck on the guy
is a problem
spice surge
Well that kinda defeats the entire theme
balmy condor
glossy dust
did anynthing change rotation whise on sin?
balmy condor
make this deathstalker
iron thorn
haughty flicker
6.5
iron thorn
Wait that’s wod right?
balmy condor
yes
jade grotto
I like hero talents that change the rotation a bit to standout but not in a shit way. It should have empowered shiv or something
balmy condor
but 6.5 didn't exist
glossy dust
compared to....
to like 2 weeks ago - ive read some shenaningans with fok stuff in here
iron thorn
Yeah that’s what I was gonna say next
balmy condor
to like 2 weeks ago - ive read some shenaningans with fok stuff in here
that's deathstalker, there's a pin
blazing kayak
what wep enchant do sin rogues want in high keys? been seein a buncha people swapped to jan'alai's precision
spice surge
Tbf this would be kinda ass nowadays without the guaranteed proc on pull
balmy condor
what wep enchant do sin rogues want in high keys? been seein a buncha people swa...
whatever sims higher innit
blazing kayak
im still rockin acuity
spice surge
Like you'd just sit and wait for the proc holding your cds
latent kernel
make this deathstalker
this but its just domain expansion
balmy condor
Tbf this would be kinda ass nowadays without the guaranteed proc on pull
attach it to deathstalker
erm
spice surge
Yeah i understand what you meant
balmy condor
deathmark
spice surge
But like
balmy condor
shadowblade
spice surge
If the trinket was added again
latent kernel
the real question is how do these deathstalker buffs affect the BIS delve build??????????!!!!
iron thorn
Wait
iron thorn
That trinket is zed ult from league no?
haughty flicker
hes got a point
fallow canopy
is sudden demise still bugged on delves?
jade grotto
the delves build is only bis for the one defensive talent lmao
haughty flicker
aoe zed r
balmy condor
That trinket is zed ult from league no?
no, it's more like detonation orb from arena if it stored all your damage and you did none
haughty flicker
what do those words mean
balmy condor
the delves build is only bis for the one defensive talent lmao
pretty much the only reason why I have it as deathstalker yeah
fallow canopy
bro is playing too much 3v3
loud light
part of the problem with deathstalker is that deathmark and kingsbane already hit that same vibe and they're trying to make something that is different from those while also working for sub
jade grotto
what do those words mean
install league og legends, you'll love it
haughty flicker
ive played league i just never played arena
balmy condor
ive played league i just never played arena
I'm sorry to hear that
haughty flicker
yeah if i had a time machine i'd stop myself from playing in the first place
but we all make mistakes
crimson drift
Hey y'all
Little late to game here. With today's changes is DS now the way to go? Or is Fatebound still preferrable?
iron thorn
Pins
loud light
like we literally have a spell called deathmark and they made a new thing called Deathstalker's Mark
jade grotto
Hey y'all
Little late to game here. With today's changes is DS now the way to g...
Deathstalker for discrimination against one minority.
latent kernel
<:ICANT:1063885246145245227>
is the delve build actually something you wanted to create or do they just make that section mandatory on wowhead lol
balmy condor
yeah if i had a time machine i'd stop myself from playing in the first place
what do you think about this
haughty flicker
i dont want to go to brazil
crimson drift
Deathstalker for discrimination against one minority.
Got it, thanks
mossy blade
what do you think about this
i think you should drop the games from the 2010s
balmy condor
is the delve build actually something you wanted to create or do they just make ...
well given that I control what guide sections are mandatory those are kinda the same question
but the short answer is yes, we have to have it on the guide
balmy condor
i think you should drop the games from the 2010s
uninstalling half my pc
iron thorn
Wait whispyr is john wowhead who‘s in charge of how guides are to be structured?
balmy condor
that is part of my job yes
loud light
i think you should drop the games from the 2010s
only games from the mid 2000s are okay
mossy blade
the other part is NSFW
worn geyser
bro if they made soul cap deathstalker hero talent i dunno if u would ever see me switch
super fun trinket
balmy condor
bro if they made soul cap deathstalker hero talent i dunno if u would ever see m...
I'd probably just see you sub
balmy condor
holy shit my savior
fallow canopy
what do you think about this
literally my worst nightmare
balmy condor
literally my worst nightmare
yeh idk, nidhogg getting 250 anvils in one game
very pain and suffering
bright cipher
haughty flicker
storm forum
does anyone have a good assa rogue PoV kill video for Alleria?
runic hinge
iron thorn
latent kernel
does anyone have a good assa rogue PoV kill video for Alleria?
working on 1 right now
get back to you in like 50 pulls
storm forum
buddy I'm about to be working on one in 30 minutes
fallow canopy
yeh idk, nidhogg getting 250 anvils in one game
not sure what that is ngl
iron thorn
Rwf rogues don’t stream wow outside of race
balmy condor
not sure what that is ngl
arena shit, you just get random free stats until infinity
iron thorn
Too bad
fallow canopy
I just play normal rift like a chud
storm forum
but i already griefed my raid cause i watched a vid that was only ranged povs so i aimed all my arrows at the wrong adds and i dont wanna grief my guild like that in p3 lmao
fallow canopy
arena shit, you just get random free stats until infinity
clear knoll
so im guessing i do that 1 mut at 3 stacks during aoe too?
balmy condor
but i already griefed my raid cause i watched a vid that was only ranged povs so...
I'll dm
storm forum
ty
glossy dust
that's deathstalker, there's a pin
thats alot of more prio dmg but it sounds painfull to play
balmy condor
yeah, deathstalker pov for the last 2 years
tired thistle
Are the talent builds more or less the same as before just with buffs as of today?
balmy condor
unless you're pushing giga high keys looking for more prio, you don't swap to deathstalker and nothing changes
glossy dust
unless you're pushing giga high keys looking for more prio, you don't swap to de...
there have been some voices that prio is like already more than high enough and like mobs dying on deathmark even in 18s
tired thistle
ahh sounds good thanks Whipsyr sticking to trickster than with my low key running ass
normal mist
Sub spotted
glossy dust
not that its high but that like the prio is already good
balmy condor
there have been some voices that prio is like already more than high enough and ...
depends on the comp but yeh
I think the idea is mostly if you pull mobs onto a boss you get a ton of extra boss damage
which is true, until the mobs die
and then you get less boss damage
so
whether or not that matters
who knows
glossy dust
how do you get more boss dmg
balmy condor
glossy dust
oh i see
spice surge
Game needs more mobs like those before the giant in pit
Where you can just have mobs up permanently for the entire fight if you want
glossy dust
what do u give up for this ? must be a st talent then if u lose dmg afterwards
iirc ive read somenthing about st talents not mattering to mcuh anyway
balmy condor
what do u give up for this ? must be a st talent then if u lose dmg afterwards
playing fatebound
glossy dust
idk ill die on this
sin feels so mcuh more comfy in pug
where scary mob die fast
all 2min
is there
like a table or anythijng that shows % prio dmg per rogue spec?
balmy condor
- deathstalker assa
- fatebound assa
- outlaw
- whatever is left
glossy dust
and approx how much between them
balmy condor
between 1 and 2 it's 15-20%, between 2 and it's like another 5ish, and 4 has no prio
keen raven
