assassination

[hallow glade]

bear was beating me on sin on beloren egg some pulls 💀

[fresh kelp]

sin on beloren 💀

[snow kindle]

yea man 😭

[hallow glade]

yeah bro you get lust and execute its for sure better then sub

why did i fall for this

[golden loom]

40 sec egg now the execute is real

[hallow glade]

surely this time...

[golden loom]

also assa scales hard so just wait next week for wep upgrade

[fresh kelp]

surely assa will be useful in the one phase

[golden loom]

right?

[snow kindle]

40s egg phase means you get 2 CD in execute now right?

[fresh kelp]

[hallow glade]

have you considered sub gets its 3rd secret supercharged on egg now

[fresh kelp]

[snow kindle]

[hallow glade]

huge damage

not really but

[fresh kelp]

ok but messer

[hallow glade]

when they bugfix lingering it will be

[fresh kelp]

the predance to start the charge cooling down

into the double on use for 4x sectec

all supercharged

[golden loom]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/46?boss=3182&metric=bossdps I MEAN ITS TOPPING ALL PERCENTILE BOSS DAMAGE LOGS LOG IN!

[hallow glade]

is double on use really better than just hitting ranger captain

ranger captain was simming very well for me on belly

[fresh kelp]

idk who reclearing that boss

[hallow glade]

40s egg can i pull up on outlaw now

and top boss damage

while these nerds wait for their cds

[golden loom]

also if you want one egg phase data you can look at heroic logs (hint hint assa is topping)!!!!! @fresh kelp

[fresh kelp]

ok but that's cheating

they get to kb pull

big damage

[golden loom]

with 40 sec egg u get to send full cds on pull in myth tho

so its same same?

[hallow glade]

could do this anyways right?

[golden loom]

probably I am just yapping

[fresh kelp]

i was only talking about egg burn damage anyway

[hallow glade]

beloren logs are about to be very disturbing

when everyone keeps having birds up during egg

[slim pebble]

Wait did they extend maintenance?

[coral ibex]

doesn't look like it

oh

yes

9am pst

launcher still said 8

[onyx veldt]

bruh

im here

refreshing over and over

nice

[hazy sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/let-me-in-eric-andre-wanna-come-in-gif-13730108

[analog hedge]

i have to reread to make sure im reading what im reading

anw is maintenance extended..

[noble nova]

Guys I wanna know what we are looking at as assa rogues after outlaw and sub buff

are we going down?

[slim pebble]

I go down every night

[noble nova]

I lowkey do not want assa to go down im loving the spec's come back this expansion

[royal lantern]

bro

[noble nova]

I dont want to feel forced to go outlaw because it does higher damage

[royal lantern]

the blunt answer is

if you have to ask stuff like that

you are like 1500 worldranks away from playing on a level where anything matters

[slim pebble]

If you’re not rank 1 gaming play what you fully enjoy. I’m topping dam in my 16 keys. Just play the game

[noble nova]

since you guys basically said almost the same thing, im asking the wrong people

[wide ferry]

Any class can clear most shit unless youre doin +20s then maybe

[royal lantern]

if thats what you get from it

like wtf is that supposed to even mean

[noble nova]

literally asked how is assa doing between both specs

[slim pebble]

If those answers aren’t what you’re looking for you’re in the wrong place lol

[noble nova]

and u guys said do what you love

[spice surge]

Well outlaw got nerfed, for starters

[dire flume]

if you're loving the spec then just keep playing it unless your raid leader is a bitchand forcing to you to play something

if you're doing keys assa is still really good and only gets better the higher you go, outlaw does better in a full phys comp, assa has better prio daamge
Pick your poison hehe

[noble nova]

mwah

[royal lantern]

(just dont pick instant)

[wide ferry]

if your raid leaders doin that switch guilds lol its a game at the end of the day

[dire flume]

but also unless youre pushing bleeding edge content you can just play what you want and enjoy, a good player on a bad spec will 9/10 beat a bad player on a good spec unless that spec is like devourer dh and is massively overtuned

[slim pebble]

I remember in shadowlands my non rogue raid leader complained about my shiv usage and I asked in here about it and sent a SS of chat saying my RL was an idiot and then quitting the guild

[wide ferry]

idk how tf people play devourer and think its fun

[golden loom]

buttons feel great to press

[weary stump]

Instant + wound meta lets go

[noble nova]

Thank you! ❤️

[royal lantern]

it does high dmg

"omg this spec is so fun" almost always translates into "omg im top dmg"

[wide ferry]

eyebeameyebeameyebeameyebeameyebeameyebeam

[dire flume]

also some people like being invited to keys

weirdly

[royal lantern]

never noticed how people always cry that they "nerf fun" when they tune down something overtuned?

[royal lantern]

why do you pug stuff in the first place

[dire flume]

i dont

i have a team lmao

[royal lantern]

like, if you pug shit, you cant complain about anything

[dire flume]

you can, you can complain about pugs

[royal lantern]

thats going into a cesspool and complaining that it smells like shit

[dire flume]

and people will commiserate

[faint mural]

Kinda miss old crimson tempest 😔

[wide ferry]

W a team im probably a 15-16 player.. pugging im usually 13s. Kicks are the biggest problem

[slim pebble]

Because I play on 32 old dad hours and no teams play then

[blazing totem]

Kinda miss

[faint mural]

I kinda miss sepsis too

[wide ferry]

had a good guild in tww and wed do m+ nights, most fun i had in wow

[slim pebble]

I hit 3400 pretty much solo on sin rogue so now im gonna play a DK and enjoy the game on easy mode

[dire flume]

i just rerolled to playing warframe for the first time in like 10 years

[golden loom]

house of frost?

[royal lantern]

ah yes, because the average wow player is not in their 30s right

[golden loom]

early 20s here (27)

[slim pebble]

I can't play until 9pm central

[royal lantern]

same mate (28)

[wide ferry]

36 fml

[slim pebble]

I also only have a couple of nights a week I can get on at that time... if there are teams that play around that I am looking in the wrong area

[wide ferry]

old dusty housecat

[golden loom]

nice! then you are still a couple of years away from mid-20s

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/capa-pandu-stucapa-studiocapa-atg-gif-10949048042327825999

[dire flume]

my team when we were playing did 3-4 hours on tue/thu because we all work and they have guild stuff

that team also was just born from me adding people from discord that i vibed with and being like "hey lets do keys?" lol

and then asking what times everyone could play

its definitely doable just a bit awkward

[slim pebble]

Im nearly resil 16 so finding a team would be pretty fun tbh

[dire flume]

could also join an m+ guild and just ask when you're on if anyone wants to play

[potent jetty]

we could have the Tricks 1 hour to be baseline and not locked on trickster

[wide ferry]

M+ guild with dedicated melee stack

how bout poisons not be a fkin hour like its 2004

[snow kindle]

arent all buffs hr duration

[coral ibex]

"yea but mark of the wild is instant cast"

[golden loom]

warrior buff with a talent is 72min

[royal lantern]

dh/monk is just passive

but tbh

could be worse

and be hunters mark

aka "use a GCD to apply it on a single enemy every fucking time"

[dire flume]

tell me about it

[tacit canyon]

is there any way to track envenom buff in the middle of my screen?..

[snow kindle]

cooldown manager

[tacit canyon]

It doesnt work for me, it just doesnt track it

[snow kindle]

Which part of envenom are you trying to track

[tacit canyon]

the stacking part

[coral ibex]

its not envenom

[snow kindle]

The apex talent?

[coral ibex]

its a different buff

[tacit canyon]

I want to see x stacks on the buff, so I know when to pool

Yes sorry, the apex

[coral ibex]

called implacable

[snow kindle]

Its call implaccable

yea

[tacit canyon]

impla, yea sorry. thats the one i mean

[coral ibex]

yea its in the cdm

so not sure what the issue is

[tacit canyon]

it is, but its not working for me. is it for you?

[coral ibex]

yes

[snow kindle]

Im not sure if you can make it a bar, but its certainly a icon

[tacit canyon]

wtf

[coral ibex]

add both buffs to tracked buffs in cdm

i didnt have to do anything else

[tacit canyon]

maybe that was the issue, i was only tracking the stacking buff

[coral ibex]

lol that would be weird if you had to track both for either to work

but i guess its possible

i didnt try that

[tacit canyon]

ill try

now it worked, awesome 🙂

[rugged basalt]

I'm still using nooka's....

[analog field]

I only have one of them and working perfectly

[radiant aspen]

so on myth dragons do u send scound dm on transition mob ?

[earnest quail]

never, just blame the other dps for not doing enough dmg

[analog field]

yes you send first one

it aligns perfectly

[onyx veldt]

i just wanna unalive myself

[faint mural]

Rip brother.

[rugged basalt]

oh we live?

monka

[rugged basalt]

holy shit tortured souls

[onyx veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/man-trying-to-kil-himself-joke-fake-suicide-laughing-suicide-fake-jumping-gif-150330258641611340

[faint mural]

Anyone have a platy profile that highlights mobs that are already have your dots applied?

[analog field]

not possible anymore

[faint mural]

I swear i saw someone with one

[onyx veldt]

got myth box on my war tho

[rugged basalt]

ya i be eating mythic box

[wide ferry]

anyone area 52? cant log in

[faint mural]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stats
You will always get more accurate results using Raidbots Top Gear, as stat values will flucuate depending on gear and situation.

Agility (Item level) > Crit > Haste > Mastery >>>> Vers
The ratio between secondaries ends up being roughly 40/33/26/1

[faint mural]

Guidon for sub swap

[onyx veldt]

ggs

[rugged basalt]

real

myth box next week fs

[coral ibex]

i took myth tier legs

had dupes in every other slot

[severe meadow]

+1 reroll

https://tenor.com/view/cat-tongue-shaking-gif-1214800249503457963

[rugged basalt]

not greeding bonus loot roll? waow

[severe meadow]

Vault was absolute piss

[onyx veldt]

i legit dont need BR

[rugged basalt]

how

[faint mural]

Just get an extra reroll. Easy money

[frosty cedar]

put the reroll in the bag

[analog hedge]

is this bis?

[coral ibex]

so i can bonus roll another dogass m+ item i dont need at 1/6 myth

ill just take the 1/6 tier in vault

[faint mural]

Lmao. No. But its not terrible

[onyx veldt]

legit

[analog hedge]

finally ill have my puzzle box this week

guaranteed 🥹

[rugged basalt]

yay my key is ws :) i need it!

[analog hedge]

oh boy

the sim queue is insane

does this goes beyond weekly cap?

tempted

[lethal turtle]

yes

[analog hedge]

📝

[onyx veldt]

gazer gazer

https://tenor.com/view/solluminati-spiritualso-gazer-sun-gazing-gif-21547736

[acoustic roost]

Heroic 🤮

[onyx veldt]

kinda cba

at this point

[rugged basalt]

better than no gaze

[onyx veldt]

yea

and on first BR too

so

[rugged basalt]

wait what nooo

[acoustic roost]

That’s even worse

[onyx veldt]

hm?

[rugged basalt]

i just noticed it was br

[acoustic roost]

Bonus rolling heroic

[onyx veldt]

icba pugging

mythic

[analog field]

you can bonus roll dungeons though and it will be more useful

[acoustic roost]

+10s give 2 mythic gear pieces

Pit myth dagger and other stuff from there is better

[onyx veldt]

cant get any upgrades from pit

i have myth dagger and neck already and crafted bracers/pants

so unless you want me to BR only for myth waist idk

[acoustic roost]

Puzzle box Algathars

[rugged basalt]

gaze sims insane so its rly an unfortunate predicament ig

[acoustic roost]

#assassination message
also pins

[onyx veldt]

i think heroic gaze sims higher than myth puzzle for me

like i benefit more from it

[analog field]

gaze sims higher for dungeons ?

[vague dragon]

hey which Number of Bosses and
Fight Length i use for M+ ?

[rugged basalt]

heroic gaze would sim higher than a myth box upgrade, provided they already have hero track box

[rugged basalt]

we use dungeonslice

[onyx veldt]

i do

but i agree technically its still a giga flip what i did

[rugged basalt]

the only other scenario is slogging all week in chim m pug before eventually walk of shame to a heroic chim to br

[onyx veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-blinking-blinking-eyes-eyes-blinking-cute-face-gif-17335643218552398559

[dusky wing]

Are the set rings good at all from a BIS standpoint? Or is it better to just have the two most optimally statted rings?

[rugged basalt]

Your mileage may vary

[onyx veldt]

my friend casually flexing on me

[rugged basalt]

Some people use it, I personally don't

[little tulip]

think im gonna send on salad man for neck or outlaw main hand

literally kinda done til turbo boost n_n

[royal lantern]

there will be no turbo boost

you get a ilvl upgrade on weapon and trinkets and thats it

[coral ibex]

is that this week or next week

[polar jasper]

Next afaik

[trim oak]

Silly question: in a hypothetical pack with infinite mobs after how many CT do we cast Deathmark?

[royal lantern]

get cds out asap

[faint mural]

Wheres le gaze when u need it

[trim oak]

Aren’t we suposed to spread out a bit before? I always did it wrong?

[royal lantern]

i mean, your targets probably die before your cds did anything if you do that

garrote-> get 5+ cp ->rupture->use cds->spread bleeds with CT while spamming envenoms

[analog field]

Ideally you want max scent stacks

but if ythe target dies like in most keys under 18 or something

then send earlier

[vale shore]

in an infinite pack, you will be energy starved long before you get your dots spread to everything. (infinitely long before)

[analog field]

why ?

huh ?

in an infinite pack you have infinite energy

[trim oak]

I didn't mean to turn it into a philosophical question 🤣

[lime edge]

Yea you already have infinite energy with like 8 mobs

Or something

Around that

[analog hedge]

come on now decimus, dont edge me, give me my core quest

u literally have ! on top of your head 😭

[royal lantern]

you gotta blow your load first

[analog hedge]

AYO

[upbeat sail]

what would be a good comp for assa to be with? or are we flexible enough to fit in everything pretty much

talkin m+

[royal lantern]

taking a Unholy DK Spot

by rerolling Unholy DK

[upbeat sail]

if dnd wouldnt exist i would have done that already

[cinder mountain]

what is the best place inside the pack for fan of knives and crimson tempest

[royal lantern]

...huh?

[cinder mountain]

I have feeling fan doesn't give me consistent combo points

not sure do I go out of range or what

doesnt seem like it

[royal lantern]

i mean, its crit based

literally just a "lol crit more bozo" thing

[cinder mountain]

but what about melee placement, e.g. outlaw aoe should be in the middle of the pack right

do you think it should be the same for assa

[royal lantern]

its a aoe out of you

[cinder mountain]

so for most consitent output I guess I should be in the middle?

[royal lantern]

yeha

like every dps in the game

[coral ibex]

its unlikely the pack is larger than your caustic or fok aoe

and if it is the tank sucks

this isn't something you need to think about at all

[tacit canyon]

for 2 target in m+ is it fan of knives or mutilate

[dim yacht]

fan of knives unless youre talented into blindside for some reason, but you shouldnt be in m+

[royal lantern]

the reason is simple

if you skill blindside, you kinda want those ambush procs

cus......thats why you skilled blindside in the first place

but ye, 2 targets is FoK by default, 3 targets FoK with blindside

[golden loom]

also because when you arent talented into blindside, you are talented into thrown presicion so your fan is better

[sacred oyster]

for <= 11~ keys, you will be talented into it for demise build.

[tacit canyon]

can u link that build for higher tahn 11s

[sacred oyster]

you use normal build for like 12+, but i think its prob debatable even at 12 to use it

on wowhead its under "weekly keys" build

[spice surge]

I mean its debatable if demise is even better on lower keys

[sacred oyster]

it gave me like another 10k

your not always in great groups who would have otherwise killed it instead lol

[tacit canyon]

so which build for 14s or higher? :S

[coral ibex]

wowhead build

[spice surge]

The one thats recommended everywhere

[faint mural]

Not the paddy one

[earnest imp]

Whats the paddy one? :d

[weary stump]

It kinda blindsides some people

[sharp mountain]

!tricks

[prisma monolith]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[vast shuttle]

best comp for sin atm

?

[weary stump]

Sin, sub, outlaw, resto shaman, blood dk

[sacred oyster]

why not a warrior instead of sub lol

[latent kernel]

i am finally free from pit of saron prison

thank god

[sacred oyster]

i got 2 free bonus rolls so i got my pit done fast, only thing i didnt get is ring but its not important as i have platinum and void rings. gotta hit AA for PB today, got chest in vault.

[analog hedge]

rate my comps

[sacred oyster]

i hope i get PB in first roll then identify best (prob MT) for helmet+shoulders+boots

[analog hedge]

i got my pb deadlast out of 5 possible rolls

good luck 🙏

[sacred oyster]

I have both myth weps, legs, gloves, chest, belt, 2x ring, 1x trinket (solarflare) at myth

i think i used 2 rolls last week

oh i have cape too but a crappy one

so thats another benefit of MT get cape there too

[proven kettle]

i can't sim over 85k in almost any configuration. i think i've scuffed my whole dealio. 🙁 where's everyone else at?

[storm forum]

I was around 101k at 280ilvl full ST talents 5 min sim

[reef flower]

Ilvl?

[reef flower]

Simming with dummys, patchwerk 1 boss, or dungeon slice?

[proven kettle]

Maybe ilvl. I sim 90k on OL with a terrible MH, but only 83.5 on patchwerk st at 266

didn't realize the climb was so far from 260-280 for outputs. yeesh.

[reef flower]

Some wise man once told me to never compare spe with sims

[proven kettle]

naw, i just wanted to see if it was a me issue with my sims so i was testing.

[sacred oyster]

are you doing patchwerk 1 target 5 mins

[proven kettle]

yeah. is there like a "preferred sim setup" for sin that I don't see in pins?

[sacred oyster]

can you link the sim? im 281 and get 86k in my ST sim with raid buffs

oh crap i did by armory, wrong talents

[proven kettle]

i was like "there's no way"

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uneWateQ2cERyTMxAzfNtF

regardless, tho, yeah I can.

I've been wingin' it so far trying to get my stats and gear right, but uh. I finally hit the point of "Well, these upgrades aren't upgrading."

so I figured I'd ask why i'

am dum

[balmy condor]

No puzzle box hurts

[proven kettle]

real bad

[trim oak]

I sim way lower than my outlaw spec but in reality I do pretty much the same dmg (even more in some dungeon), I don't fully understand if the sim is reliable

[proven kettle]

I could also just be a terrible player, as long as I know the reason, I'm gucci.

[balmy condor]

It is reliable

[trim oak]

I think I'm missing something then

[balmy condor]

Well the number you spit out of sims

And the number you do in dungeons

Are not comparable

[proven kettle]

my OL sims like 6.5k higher with this gear (swapping MH for a 250 sword I have)
sub is 7k higher, same gear.
so I've just been playing sin cause it's kinda fun to do.

[balmy condor]

So that’s what’s missing

Okay, again, you can’t compare sims like that

[sonic zinc]

imma be op now right

1 reroll into AA

[near light]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stats
You will always get more accurate results using Raidbots Top Gear, as stat values will flucuate depending on gear and situation.

Agility (Item level) > Crit > Haste > Mastery >>>> Vers
The ratio between secondaries ends up being roughly 40/33/26/1

[sacred oyster]

even if i get PB ill be crest capped to even upgrade it. prob better to put into the chest i got in my vault though.

[proven kettle]

serious question on this part: I would need it explained because it seems like comparing different outputs from inputs is just normal to do?, but i'm being told not to, but why can't we compare them like that?

[bright turret]

historically it's just much harder to do sim perfect outlaw play, while sin is on the easy side

also the moment you have any kind of downtime completely throws its sim out the window

[sonic zinc]

many reasons and im sure whispyr is cookin up a long post

[proven kettle]

I am okay with being lectured about being dumb, i won't learn otherwise.

[sonic zinc]

ye i was gonna type something up but whispyr can handle it

he writes guides so he surely can do it better than me

[proven kettle]

he wrote the wowhead one yea?

[sonic zinc]

ye

[proven kettle]

well, then i know it'll be accurate and informative.

[sonic zinc]

if after all this hes typing up something completely irrelevant to the current topic i swear

[proven kettle]

it's just a copy paste of the bee movie script.

[reef flower]

He's trolling rn imagine

Fake typing

[sonic zinc]

does he have a cat, maybe a cat is sitting on his keyboard

[proven kettle]

naw i think i pissed him off.

[marsh fjord]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1292477218462634115/vlc_2024-10-06_08-22-07.gif

[bright turret]

spam chat about how hes typing to fluster him is the obv play

[marsh fjord]

you're gonna get cooked

[sonic zinc]

i bet hes writing the recipe to that sandwhich he ate in that video

[bright turret]

the tldr is just gonna be never trust outlaw sim

[frosty cedar]

[sonic zinc]

i mean even outside of the specific outlaw vs other specs case
its generlaly good practice to not compare between classes/specs

[random pelican]

Theres cd timings and fight timings being different for sims, sub at 5min != sin at 5min

[warm parcel]

Something something absolute numbers

Something something apple orange

[frosty cedar]

what is my goat cooking

[proven kettle]

it's an honest curiosity, trying to be less bad.

[bright turret]

do you raid at all

[proven kettle]

yeah.

[bright turret]

the reason you dont trust sims is simply because fight design doesnt give a dang about your 5 min patchwerk rotation

because they almost never are that

[storm forum]

I'm scared

[bright turret]

the main strength of sims is to figure your gearing out

[storm forum]

It's been like 20 minutes

[weary stump]

Me too twin

Whispyr about to come out saying they're quitting, or their cats on the keyboard

[warm parcel]

Cats def

[storm forum]

Please be cats

[random pelican]

Better than that dude asking claude and archon and arguing with the fellas in here

[bright turret]

use sims for gearing, use WCL for knowing how specs actually perform

[warm parcel]

I mean its not wrong to ask

[half egret]

Is it even worth to try for myth PoS dagger on bonus roll if I already rolled the myth wedding ring and have myth vorasius dagger? Or should I just send on AA for puzzle?

[warm parcel]

People just might not be familiar with the tools

[royal lantern]

not really worth it

[proven kettle]

ive been really bad for a while, so I figured I'd come ask here and get less bad. seemed harmless and I'm bad at using the tools. :S

[royal lantern]

if you have a mythic dagger, why go for a 2nd one

when your 2nd dagger is your embelishment craft

[proven kettle]

but now i can get explanations for why i'm using the tools wrong and that helps me understand more. 🙂

[weary stump]

So when their dagger breaks mid fight shamefully they have a replacement

[royal lantern]

vanilla gaming

[bright turret]

removing gold from the economy by making rogues have infinite attack speed and breaking daggers fast

[weary stump]

Tbf you can still swap mid fight in m+

[warm parcel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/376793600974913539/1499690066757554196/image.png?ex=69fafcb6&is=69f9ab36&hm=acf797af8ee75668dca8e7fb2142e3f949a6559602395c38c1f7711302f999ff&

When u in a key with prot war

[royal lantern]

i mean, something with dagger durability in midnight IS fucked

and hunters had that problem with rapidshot in the past aswell

[bright turret]

its not just daggers

[royal lantern]

[reef flower]

Can also use hammer to repair 😂 did that yesterday

[bright turret]

gear just breaks fast this xpac and they didnt tell us

[royal lantern]

prot warriors/paladins losing casually 8% durability every single m+ pull

[bright turret]

but our attack speed certainly isnt helping

[reef flower]

Hammers can be used midfight

[weary stump]

The void deteriorating gear faster, its baked into the lore guys

[storm forum]

AA will be the most impactful thing if you get it, but if there's other stuff from pit (like the wrists and neck), it might be better value to keep rolling pit. Personally I'd try to the box

[warm parcel]

Aint no void in AA tho

[weary stump]

Infinite dragonflight hiding in the floorboards

[warm parcel]

[royal lantern]

but infinites have nothing to do with the void

[sonic zinc]

just do aa and get it in 1 go

[royal lantern]

[sonic zinc]

ez

[royal lantern]

just get it in vault and then bonusroll gaze in the same week

[sonic zinc]

i did the opposite, killed chim in a pug, got it vault right after

then just rerolled AA for a box today

after having exhausted pit

[warm parcel]

Sending 5 coins on fresh char in pit is

[balmy condor]

So Sims are obviously not a one to one for the game, they’re sort of “sterile” environments with controlled variables. Dungeonslice is a 2 min boss and then 4 minutes of varied aoe in order to emulate the situations you’ll see in a dungeon, not actually the dungeon. Patchwerk is 100% uptime, here’s a stack of enemies (in this case single target), you hit it for 4-6 minutes (cause the duration on sims has variance), and go. These aren’t “real” situations, but they are “sterile” lab/testing style things that can be replicated and normalized to give us data and inform us about what would happen in real situations. It’s much like any other real world science experiment in that regard. On top of that spec implementations themselves vary in a lot of cases. It’s like comparing an organic apple from a farmers market to like a bottom of the barrel apple in the pile at the grocery store. Yes, they’re both apples, but comparing the prices and going “this apple number biiiiig” is losing an insane amount of context for why that is the case and what that means.

Some example are like ele sham this patch. They sim in the 140’s for single target, like a full 20%+ higher than any rogue spec, and yet they’re not actually that good. They get punished really hard by movement and uptime and other nonsense in a fight. Outlaw? Always sims insanely high in dungeonslice, because it has no burst and the way dungeonslice is set up rewards that immensely compared to the longer cds from assa/sub.

The implementation of the specs themselves also varies, because there’s no standard for how sims are setup. I have a rule that if an optimization is not immediately obvious and less than 0.3%, I simply do not add it. With midnight I rewrote the entire assa APL, and forgot to add conditions for the end of fight, so it was pooling energy on the last 10-15 seconds of a fight. That was like 0.2%, but I added it. Having something where it’s like “okay if you have this buff and that buff and less than x energy and you’re in specifically 4 target cleave with these talents”, I don’t add that to sims, because I’m trying to keep the assa model as human as possible. Other classes don’t, they see sims as like TAS where every gain is a gain and must be added because it’s higher number better good. Inside of a single class that’s better and not as extreme most of the time, but it’s still something that isn’t standardized and depends on the theorycrafter’s stance

That’s why going “oh but my sub sims X higher than my outlaw” or something just doesn’t make sense for any application actually in game. Theres too many variables and too much difference between what you’re simming and what’s actually happening. Now, whenever I do this big explanation the next thing people do is they go “okay well then I’ll just never sim anything again these things sound useless”, and that’s not the takeaway, because if you’re comparing assa thing A vs assa thing B, that’s using the same logic in sims and the same situations and just comparing talents or comparing items or whatever. That’s a much better comparison than comparing like sub doing nothing but burst damage vs outlaw doing zero burst damage, in a fight style where sub can’t make use of the burst necessarily, and then drawing conclusions from that. So comparing within a spec? That’s fine yeh, comparing thing to itself, perfect. Comparing spec A to spec B? A ton of information loss in that process so if it’s not like a gorillion dps difference you gotta take it with like a salt rock sized grain of sand

[reef flower]

😂

[mighty rapids]

damn tell em how u really feel

[royal lantern]

a gorillion dps

[proven kettle]

I didn't stop to consider the apl creation differences and habits of the creators of them being micro-differences that make "big number go up" on other spec sims versus one, I guess I forgot they're all not made by the same people with the same considerations. That's actually really helpful and informative and gives me new insight into how to use the simulation tool versus how I have been using it. Thanks for doing all that for me, I know it's a silly question but I can't learn unless I ask.

[coral pivot]

Common Based Whispyr comment

[waxen oyster]

every tier people ask

"why is outlaw simming high"

i swear

[proven kettle]

Oh really?

[sonic zinc]

yes

every tier

[proven kettle]

my b.

[sonic zinc]

every time

its fine, people dont understand it

they just see numbers

[royal lantern]

i mean, most people dont understand it until they are told

[sonic zinc]

its like the whole sim list that gets passed around every season/expac

its meaningless

[proven kettle]

should save that response whispyr typed up and use that for a bot command to people doing what I did then.

lmao

[sonic zinc]

should be a new command LOL

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[sonic zinc]

damnit

that exists

[royal lantern]

and wow has a VERY loud community that loves to scream "high number = Good" with no nuance behind it, so its just normal that you dont know better when clueless people always go crazy over sims

its just

sims are a gearing/talent tool

[proven kettle]

i see we were in similar classes in school, zomb

[royal lantern]

not a tool for performance comparisons

cus there are 200000000000000000 factors that play into performance

[sonic zinc]

sims are funny af

its great misinfo

[storm forum]

Whispyr needs to pin all his hyper detailed responses to the 100th time someone asks a question

[sonic zinc]

when used int he way the public uses it

[royal lantern]

like others said, Outlaw is historically one of the highest simming specs since basically ALWAYS, and its no mistake in the sims

[proven kettle]

well, i appreciate the time taken to answer my question and redirect me. tbph.

[royal lantern]

but at the same time outlaw is notorious for being a.....mediocre spec in raids at best

[balmy condor]

That’s what I’m here for after all

[upbeat sail]

do i never use mutilate when fighting double dragon boss and they are next to each other

[balmy condor]

Well I’m also here to serve an eternal purgatory allegedly with how this discord torments my mental

[royal lantern]

if you play the right build, yes

[balmy condor]

But not in this case

[royal lantern]

you just fok

[sonic zinc]

ima save that post whispr

[storm forum]

Assuming ur using the build we recommend, yes, don't mut the dragons on that fight

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/yoyo-white-cat-tiktok-silly-cat-car-gif-5886769307141897158

[upbeat sail]

copied it from logs

[sonic zinc]

good post i can chuck at people

[royal lantern]

sudden demise

what

??

[sonic zinc]

sd build is parse bait

[proven kettle]

well now i know, my sims are fine, i'm just bad rn.
i can maybe fix that at least. I can't fix math.

[glacial orchid]

ive lost 20k single target in raid, mh wierd

[trim oak]

Now I get A LOT of things. Thanks so much for the detailed explaination!

[sonic zinc]

huge parse on adds

[unborn berry]

sims might be a lil worse this tier cause some classes like BM hunter sim god awful and absolutely slap in game so people get a very bad idea on whats actually what lol

[spice surge]

Top parses use it so it must be the play

[storm forum]

If ur build has blindside, mut on 2 targets, if it doesn't have blindside, only mut on pure ST

[upbeat sail]

i mean its my 2nd day on assa im not sure if its that good i see potential in murdering small orbs xdd

its also my first time on mythic dragons

[balmy condor]

Generally the rule is if you’re taking sudden demise you’re wrong

[royal lantern]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/midnight-season-1-raid-tips

[proven kettle]

i didn't know how the dungeonslice really ran, tbph, i never looked that deep. :S

[upbeat sail]

oh there is even mythic dragons build awesome

thanks

[glacial orchid]

something buggy atm? lost about 10-20k singletarget

no shit talk

[unborn berry]

did you have poisons on

[storm forum]

I also felt like I had less energy than usual this week. Especially in our key build. But I think I might also be going crazy.

[glacial orchid]

i had

[storm forum]

Also went down some haste with new jewelry and stuff, so maybe I am feeling the lack of haste and whispyr lied to us

[gaunt herald]

You can entirely cloak Despotic Command on Salhadaar, meaning the debuff goes away and no pool drops?

[balmy condor]

No

[teal kettle]

was there a document with feintable things in keys

[grim jay]

everything because you play elusiveness

[coral ibex]

yea nobody wants to maintain a document of literally every damage event in keys

sorry lol

[gaunt herald]

" Despotic Command can be immuned and the dot/heal absorb removed with Cloak of Shadows."

cloak just immunes the damage but the rest of the effect is the same?

[balmy condor]

Is chaotic disposition the run-out

I don’t know shit by the name

[coral ibex]

yes

its the circle you have to drop

not the 5 pointed line blast

[balmy condor]

Yeah it doesn’t drop the debuff or fizzle out it just immune the damage

[gaunt herald]

Got it

[static glen]

Wise words assa Jesus

[grim jay]

whispyr now has long hair, a beard and holes in his hands ?

(holes to minimize the warming effect on the monster cans in his hands????)

[radiant aspen]

any good pov for dragons

?

[gilded oasis]

this guy gives directions like "take a left at the big rock, go until you see the big tree and take a right at the bush" (this is how I give directions)

[radiant aspen]

https://giphy.com/gifs/goku-vegeta-dragonball-o7PX1pWVblbtWn85qh

[proper rain]

whats the secret on the dmg amp boss in nexus point? burst adds or wipe?

[coral ibex]

what

[viscid pulsar]

are there any povs of assa belo?

[gilded oasis]

are those the only 2 options

[coral ibex]

what do you mean burst adds or wipe

[marsh fjord]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1141527715258847284/1225424075967561818/shocked_cat_wtf.gif

[gilded oasis]

burst adds or go again

[coral ibex]

i mean unless it gets weird above a 17 i didnt have to think about it

i just held my cds for the amp

[gilded oasis]

they tend to die to just cleave in my experience im busy prepping to burst the best burst ive ever bursted

[coral ibex]

and then sent

yea same

they just die to cleave

[gilded oasis]

and if not, then they defintiely will during amp they dont have that much health

[analog field]

what even happens if they don't die ?

I don't think i've ever seen it

[gilded oasis]

idk I think they just keep existing. I dont think he consumes them or anything

one can stun or something

[humble grotto]

Can night elves shadowmeld and then reapply garote for the extra damage?

[proper rain]

if you can stealth, yes

[humble grotto]

In M+ specifically

I'm trying to verify before I race change. Can I macro shadowmeld with stealth to get into stealth instead of using vanish?

[analog field]

no you need to meld and then stealth after 1 sec if the game lets you

and not usable in boss fights

and also the dmg gain is not worth it

[twilit lagoon]

meld doesn't count as a stealth?

[analog field]

no

[humble grotto]

Got it thank you. What is currently the best Mythic + race for rogues? Looking at warcraft logs I see a lot of Night Elves and dwarves. I thought the night elves would be for the extra damage from improved garrote

[analog field]

dwarf probably this season for the dispel

[sonic zinc]

they die to cleave from the damage amp

[analog field]

also you can go maghar for the dmg

night elf is mostly for dodging a mechanic with meld

[humble grotto]

Got it. Thanks

[sacred oyster]

is 50/65 bonus agility seriously not a consideration for panda?

[coral ibex]

it is

but not when you need an extra defensive/cleanse in m+

then dwarf will basically always be bis

[dusty plume]

doest it make sense to cast puzzle box before improved garrote in some m+ situations?

[spice surge]

Not really no

[coral ibex]

it doesn't matter

[spice surge]

As the duration of garrote is longer than box

[coral ibex]

it updates with the new stats

[rugged basalt]

thought it updates the bleeds

[sacred oyster]

why would you lol, youd risk missing the pandemic

[dusty plume]

does it makes sense to use pot before spreading garrote?

[coral ibex]

.

[coral ibex]

.

[rugged basalt]

i prefer lining it up with box/dm

well obv 5min but i like making full use of it after than before

[sacred oyster]

i have box, dm, kb, pot all on my mouse buttons i just go down the line of them

[spice surge]

All dots update their damage dynamically

So if you apply a dot > pot the tick will do the same as if you pot > apply the dot

[coral ibex]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps#rotations-opener

[sacred oyster]

i think they may be asking from a point of view if it takes 10s to finish spreading bleeds, those at the latter end of spreading wont get the full pot duration, in that if you held pot until later, everything gets full pot duration.

but yes that would be more dps to hold it, but only if everythings going to live that long to begin with, which is where the maybe not comes in.

[coral ibex]

the wowhead guide has information about when to use pot and trinkets

[sacred oyster]

oh wait pot is 30s not 20, its pb thats 20

[dry marsh]

Hi! I started playing wow about a month ago for the first time ever as an ass rogue but I’m still doing abysmal damage. Would anyone be willing to help me out and give me some tips on how to do more damage? I watched a few videos but I can’t seem to keep my energy up

[coral ibex]

energy is low on the spec by design

are you max level?

[dry marsh]

I’m 90 ilvl like 269

[coral ibex]

as long as you keep up bleeds on your target(s) and have your poisons on, you will have sufficient energy regen for the rotation, and the apex talent provides some extra

you are meant to have times of low energy and then times of high energy

[humble grotto]

In M+ AoE Should I be spamming crimson tempest or cast it 2-3 times ( to spread bleeds ) then press fan of knives until bleeds fall off then reapply?

[dry marsh]

If that’s the case is it likely my low dmg is just from doing the wrong rotation of abilities?

[spice surge]

If there are targets you want to bleed, press CT.
If not, press fok

[coral ibex]

i dont know what context you mean low damage

if you have a log of a raid fight we can look at that

[dry marsh]

Ok like in a +5 key I’m not even keeping up with my rank

Yeah I have one I could send after I get off work

[coral ibex]

well part of that is the fact that assa requires targets to live for the full duration of our bleeds in order to do good damage

so if stuff dies super quick in m+ assa looks really bad

i personally dont even bother playing assa in 12's and lower

people have so much ilvl its just not worth it

[coral ibex]

for sure tho assa doing bad damage in low keys where mobs dont live very long is 100% expected and a pain point for a lot of people this season

[dry marsh]

Ok but in raid I’m also doing nothing at all this is the parse thingy for the last one I did. My name is renade in the log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WLpb7mxPAY9HRV4d?fight=33

Idk if that helps

[analog field]

this is a 9 min fight where you have 28 envenoms

[frosty cedar]

Aren't u dead for like 2 minutes

[coral ibex]

yea so my first recommendation is to not die lol

[frosty cedar]

What is a really happening here

[coral ibex]

i would not worry about your performance until you are living through the fights entirely

[balmy condor]

POV me on bird

[analog field]

wait you have 7 envenoms in 2 min

[frosty cedar]

bro I'm still on alleria

bird looks easy tho after patch surely

[analog field]

I can give you my logs to compare each fight , they are not perfect but I have 92 envenoms in 8 min fight and you have 28 in 9 min fight

it means you are lacking basic things that come with experience and time

give it time

[coral ibex]

whats going on here

[frosty cedar]

He has entered zen mode

[frosty cedar]

Could be a failed swordweaving attempt

[coral ibex]

you have a lot of times where you are pressing literally nothing for way more time than you should be

[balmy condor]

Yeah probably stomp now

[coral ibex]

you also pressed deathmark once in 4:41

[slim pebble]

Mans is eating mid boss fight

Or he’s narcoleptic

[coral ibex]

some of this is really basic fundamentals, always use your cds on cd

you press DM in your opener and never again

[ruby bolt]

you guys going back to assa on beloren?

[frosty cedar]

deathmark phase is over

[coral ibex]

you randomly press kingsbane at 1:55

[frosty cedar]

what do you mean back to assa

[ruby bolt]

these dudes were sub

[frosty cedar]

aw hell nah

[ruby bolt]

ah hell nah is right

[coral ibex]

sub had better burst on the egg last week

[ruby bolt]

yeah

makes sense

[frosty cedar]

yeah cause I hadnt reached bird yet

[ruby bolt]

me neither, but should be finishing crown this week hopefully

was tryna plan ahead

[coral ibex]

assa did not enough add damage and too much boss damage outside burn phase for my guild

[analog field]

sub is still better

[frosty cedar]

im gonna be backshotting the fuck out of that thing

[analog field]

but who cares

[frosty cedar]

how could you

[coral ibex]

idk if sub is still better actually

[ruby bolt]

you cant play ct on it right

[coral ibex]

with a longer egg phase

and worse sub burst

[analog field]

They were discussing it here this afternoon-evening

I don't think assa catches up but it is not that big of a difference I think

[frosty cedar]

I mean Im prety sure u just play ST on it surely

[analog field]

you take ct no ?

and cs

[frosty cedar]

ive got no idea but why would you go cs

[analog field]

adds?

is it better to not help at all with them for a small gain ? maybe but I thought people were taking these talents

haven't checked , still progging alleria

[frosty cedar]

honestly im not sure im not on bird yet either

im going full ST on alleria tho

[analog field]

I am going sub 😛

[frosty cedar]

how traitorous

[balmy condor]

Get ready to hold dps

[frosty cedar]

surely with egg phase lasting like 40s you dont have to hold as much as long as you can squeeze ur cds into the 40s window.. surely..

[coral ibex]

nah bro they're rolling up with 3 tanks 5 healers

bro gets to do all the damage

[frosty cedar]

nah bro we rocking up with the 1 phase crew, 1 tank 2 healer

[proven kettle]

why did they remove the garrote silence from stealth baseline?

[waxen oyster]

it was never baseline

[balmy condor]

It was never baseline

[proven kettle]

wasnt it in legion?

[balmy condor]

It was baked into subterfuge

[proven kettle]

ahhhh that's where my brain is messed up

ty

[waxen oyster]

how would i remember if it was

legion was 10 years ago

[proven kettle]

i mean.

[balmy condor]

I remember

[waxen oyster]

i think it was a stealth effect but idk

playing assa in legion keys was kinda troll imo

[proven kettle]

naw legion keys was OL

[waxen oyster]

?

it was sub

from tomb onward

[balmy condor]

How would I remember that

10 years ago

[waxen oyster]

true i barely do

i also dont read my talents

tbh

[proven kettle]

reading is hard

[waxen oyster]

i copy paste what smarter people post

[trim oak]

Sub and mantle of the master assassin or whatever the name was

The crazy legendary

[proven kettle]

i couldn't get legendaries to drop on my rogue. i don't think i ever got mantle before I got asked to heal. :S

would explain why i remember doing dungeons as OL tho. and it had those shiny dreadblades/.

also
isn't this the tt from TBC?
i'm old old.

[lime edge]

And behind the target

[proven kettle]

back in the day im remembering very old things now. :S sorry

[storm forum]

I thought I was old but thank god im not that old

[proven kettle]

bro I was like 13 when the game came out. sorry.

[proper rain]

May I ask, is this a me problem or a tank/key performance issue? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jn9CDRzvFKGfTyhQ?fight=last&type=damage-done

I did really bad here

[coral ibex]

you're missing a bunch of dm casts

[trim cairn]

It's also because of all the deaths

[coral ibex]

only 11 in 29 minutes

should be more like 14 or 15

stop holding cds

[proper rain]

ahh right, this run was a bit chaotic and i choked a bit

[trim cairn]

Yeah good luck getting 14 or 15 deathmarks in 27 minutes bro

[coral ibex]

?

you get 14 in 26 minutes

with 1 minute of drift allowed total

for 27 minutes

[proper rain]

but is it worth casting if all mobs have like 30% health left?

[coral ibex]

probably not

but you're holding it a lot

[proper rain]

but yeah, i probably missed 1 or 2 DM without a doiubt

[rustic cosmos]

What key level?

[proper rain]

pit 16

[rustic cosmos]

Ya, dont hold cds

Just send ut

It

[coral ibex]

i had 11 dm casts in a 25 minute POS 15

[proper rain]

Will do, thanks... probably need holding it a bit

[coral ibex]

same amount of casts, 4 more minutes

thats a lot of holding

[rustic cosmos]

Also depends on pulls,bl etc

[coral ibex]

for sure

i also had 11 casts in a 25 minute pit 17, but i died 4 times lol

[rustic cosmos]

I usually send it on cd, so i have both cds lined up

[proper rain]

Was just shocked to see 22% key parse (yes i know it means nothing, you cant look at the number and make something meaningful out of it, but still)

[coral ibex]

not many keys get logged compared to total keys done

so parses are gonna be weird

[trim cairn]

It's because of death time penalty too

[coral ibex]

i would just look at things like total cd casts, dot uptimes, etc

[trim cairn]

Every death is 15s of you doing 0 dps according to logs

[proper rain]

oh is key parse NOT just damage?

[coral ibex]

no its damage and timer

[proper rain]

am i stupid?

[rustic cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/rookie-numbers-gif-26135237

[gusty pagoda]

alright have a question for you boys, i now have 2 289 weapons, do i replace my crafted dagger and use another embellishment or keep the crafted dagger because the hunt is too good to lose

[coral ibex]

lets say you and i both did the same total damage in the same level of a key

but i did the key in 3 minutes less

i did more dps because i did the same damage in less time

deaths add to key timer

[balmy condor]

you keep the crafted weapon in your offhand because offhand daggers are shit slots perfect for your embellishment

[proper rain]

I hear you

[balmy condor]

has nothing to do with hunt directly

it's just where embellishments go

[gusty pagoda]

got it good to know then, just snagged the pit dagger and was needing to know what to do

[trim cairn]

Just wait till you have a really good key where you blast and you still log pretty bad because someone in the party dies a lot :p

[rustic cosmos]

Let me in so i can get my guaranteed box finally....

[rustic cosmos]

Griefing devourers probably

[grizzled wedge]

I just respecced into assass, Im just wondering which of these stats would i want to get higher / less of? I'm only simming at 89k compared to sub where I sim at around 106k, if anyone could help me out it would be appreciated

[trim cairn]

Surprisingly enough a warlock in my case

But I knew he was cooked as soon as he decided lying about not having defensive off cd was a more viable option to just admitting he didn't use it

[sacred oyster]

that looks appropriate for ST focus, M+ would want to swap some haste for mastery

[rustic cosmos]

Oh ya, warlocks too.. im.playing demo as well so i know the struggle to cast everytime

[fallen charm]

have you guys noticed garrote not working sometimes?

[trim cairn]

On bosses?

[grizzled wedge]

Yeah I just noticed i was in m+ talents which is why my ST sim wasnt that high, im gonna try and remake it, Im more into raiding so ST is what fits me best I think? unless im completely lost on this spec

[fallen charm]

happened a couple times since reset, I garrote spend energy, get combo points but no dot

[trim cairn]

Just wait til one of those fuckers parry your Kingsbane

[fallen charm]

on normal adds

[trim cairn]

Oh

[fallen charm]

they removed it thank god

[trim cairn]

Wait when?

[fallen charm]

last exp

[rustic cosmos]

Is dat still thing?

[fallen charm]

last time a boss parried my kingsbane was rick reverb

[grizzled wedge]

update, 101k on ST with the appropriate talents

[trim cairn]

Idk fam u tell me

Only implacable strike I guess

[balmy condor]

the phys hit of implacable can be parried yeah

kingsbane itself cant

[sharp viper]

not all the way there but at least something

kingsbane parry after DM made me want to jump off a cliff

or at least ansurek platform

[balmy condor]

parry and miss is going to be a thing until the end of time I'm pretty sure

blizz loves that shit

[spice surge]

But then why is it not a thing for ranged

[balmy condor]

it is on some things

deflect

idk what's up with it

[rustic cosmos]

#expertise

[spice surge]

They dont have parry, theyre half as reliable on raid buffs as we are

[trim cairn]

Hahaha

Btw

We had a discussion about CT amount earlier and how I said you should be blasting tons of CT before popping cds

[balmy condor]

AGAIN?

[sharp viper]

woops ray of frost missed

woops collapsing star got parried

shit would be instantly removed

[spice surge]

Yeah but sectech getting parried is apparently fine

[fallen charm]

it used to be a thing

but they removed

mobs used to RESIST spells

[spice surge]

Ye but thats dumb so they removed it

Yet they keep parry

[fallen charm]

loads of fun when the boss resisted the tank taunt

[trim cairn]

You need to spread bleeds more before you pop cds

[candid narwhal]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aMWmDqz5iedyxqJq1o1LCf https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aShsbYLcK9xHCCwXRnE9nk
hiya guys, i was wondering if someone could help me figure out why assass sims so low for compared to sub? I thought it was meant to be better in dungeon slice situations, im new to simming so its a bit confusing

[balmy condor]

#assassination message
can't compare specs to each other with sims

[trim cairn]

And also don't deathmark an add that will die in 5s

[candid narwhal]

Ahh, that was a really good explanation, thank you 🙂

[latent kernel]

How do peeps compare specs, do you just aggregate data from Warcraft logs?

[balmy condor]

depends what you're looking for

sub can do a ton more damage in keys overall but if you need prio damage it's obviously shit

that's not something you can aggregate

[proven kettle]

thank god we had that response saved.

[balmy condor]

like at the end of the day the answer really is just "use brain"

[trim cairn]

In theory but never in practice

Or at least not in my keys when I tank on my monk x)

[balmy condor]

shut up please

[trim cairn]

If only I was speaking in the first place

[proven kettle]

use what? isn't rogue a melee dps?

[latent kernel]

People always talk meta and what’s expected to perform well, is that just based on feel? Or is there any actual data to support which classes and specs perform better?

Like for example beginning of season when people speculate, is it just brain speculation or is there any data behind that

[balmy condor]

that is based on feel, yes

[proven kettle]

im surprised we don't have odds on some gambling site to bet on specs pre-release for end of season 1 tops.

[balmy condor]

there's two types of metas basically, there's the meta of people opening archon and going OOH SHINY TIER LIST BIG DAMAGE NUMBER HIGHER GOOD SPEC YAYYYYYY

which is what you encounter in pugs for the most part

and then there's the meta of like, sub in raid where people value the burst sub does on things like belo'ren

[proper rain]

Oh, we’re getting all bleeds up on all mobs before popping cds? I really thought it was garrote garrote rupture ct ct envenom cds. In that order in aoe

[balmy condor]

which is a bit of data from sims, a bit of looking into logs

[trim cairn]

Depends on how fast the pack is gonna die

[balmy condor]

and then just general community consensus

[latent kernel]

So my question is with the tuning patches that come out, how does blizzard come up with what is over and under performing? That’s just based on data aggregation from raid right?

Asking because I always thought there was some sim aspect to be able to tell if something was over/underperforming

[balmy condor]

fuck if I know

[trim cairn]

If the pack doesnt die within your cd window then it's usually worth it to bleed up more targets before popping

[latent kernel]

Lmao

[balmy condor]

I don't work at blizzard lmao

[proper rain]

I’ll try this, thanks a bunch!

And your other tips, much appreciated

[dry pawn]

They call an 800 psychic number and ask for tuning advice or maybe read it in tea leaves

[balmy condor]

they seem to use a mix of aggregate data from like heroic-level players

[teal kettle]

WHY DO MY DAGGERS BREAK SO FAST

[balmy condor]

and then later in the tier they use mythic metrics

[sacred oyster]

they just buff their fav classes, tweak some others, and call it feels

[balmy condor]

you're stabbing really fast

like I wouldn't be surprised if they used warcraftlogs data to tune

[latent kernel]

See because devourer has been overperforming for weeks and hasn’t gotten nerfed, so in my brain there has to be like some other method blizzard uses, I wish the machine wasn’t black box style lmao

[balmy condor]

look at statistics and see what specs are at the bottom and what are at the top

and then talk about it

and decide if there's something to do be done or not

[trim cairn]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/L3YZgTMn28VwvqFb/jn9CDRzvFKGfTyhQ?fight=1&type=damage-done&source=5%2C7&start=15170347%2C3930220&end=15263763%2C4023636

[spice surge]

Well you also have to ask the question of "is the game gonna be more fun if we nerf this?"

[balmy condor]

WCL statistics probably at least narrows it down

but they also have to weigh like community perception of things I assume

[spice surge]

If tons of people are playing their new spec, they dont want to nerf it hard so people get upset about spending time gearing it

[balmy condor]

yeh

[latent kernel]

That’s a good point didn’t think about it that way

[balmy condor]

like a spec that's top 3 at the start of the season

is never going to be nerfed to bottom 3

if it's at the top, it'll be at the top for the rest of the season

[analog field]

They usually don't massacre the top contenders of the early season

[sacred oyster]

so uh this looks like its gonna be quite nice for us?

[analog field]

they still end up kinda high

[balmy condor]

298 ring is quite nice, yes

the effect is whatever

4k seems like a lot of nothing

[sacred oyster]

well its free extra dmg that doesnt use an embellish though

[balmy condor]

sure

[stiff fern]

It's gonna be good for everyone

[balmy condor]

so is the nexus ring set

and that's not bis

[sacred oyster]

but that stat allocation is spicy

[latent kernel]

I mean but realistically this is all within a skew reference of 5-8% dps, so realistically none of this shit matters anyways when the tuning is that close correct? People just like to bitch and moan because of the perceived shitness of their class

[stiff fern]

Just wait to get good stats

[sacred oyster]

i wonder if its always 268/55

[balmy condor]

bingo

or they'll bitch because the literal top 2 guilds in the world didn't play the spec

or they'll bitch because some streamer doing top 10 keys said something offhand

or they'll bitch because they don't understand how their talents work and invent a situation in their head where restealthing matters (see the last decade of assa discourse)

[trim cairn]

Also you are the prio damage in this comp, so you sending your deathmark and kingsbane on a small add is why you guys are stuck for 15s killing the Ymirjar Graveblade, which is nuking the pacing of your key

[trim cairn]

I actually saw one of these in the wild while tanking recently

Rogue actually babyraging over chain pulling

[latent kernel]

Tbf I think the restealth issue stemmed from more of a feels bad design issue than an actual dps issue, I was in the camp that even though I knew it didn’t really matter, it still felt like shit when I didn’t get one

[sick sail]

cant wait for another whisp video

[balmy condor]

doesn't even feel differently now and people still bitch

[gusty pagoda]

so i know you guys just talked about simming each spec and trying to compare is dogshit when it comes to data. How do i decide which spec is better then, i have the gear for both sin and sub and can play both just as good i feel like. I know its a personal choice kind of thing but when i do both myth raid and M+ and not knowing which to play where gets weird.

[latent kernel]

They should make iron wire bugged like internal bleeding is

So you can crimson tempest spam silence a pack lmfao

[trim cairn]

Close to WotLK levels of power

FoK interrupts if my memory isnt fried from aging

[trim cairn]

Last tip, stop envenoming tons of different targets during the pull, you are nuking your caustic spatter damage

[sacred oyster]

the way i see it, contributing boss dmg is important damage. if your group is struggling to kill the ads and you switching to help with the ads could resolve the problem and finish the kill, then there could be value in switching to sub there.

[lost portal]

wd`11111222

[sacred oyster]

nice password

[proven kettle]

you go off of aggregate WCL data per fight and see which one performs better and also determine which level you can play to (99 assa vs 89 sub or something), and also consider your groups performance needs (prio, aoe burst, etc,.) or just swap specs for a week and see which one you do better on

[sacred oyster]

or just only play the one you want to play and say f the rest (sin life)

[proven kettle]

that's the real answer^

[sacred oyster]

i dont have sub setup lol

[proven kettle]

sims basically won't help you with that, i don't think.

[sacred oyster]

ive yet to encounter even in a pug that struggling to kill shitter ads in time was needed. its always been a prio target concern at best, which we are good for.

even the balls in hc saladbar im not even seeing the need to help on them. i hit a 91% on that last week.

[proven kettle]

idk, if i play sin at a 95 parse on average and sub at an 87 on average, if 87 sub > 95 sin, i'll probably take sub.

[gusty pagoda]

sadly i mainly pug for M+ and have been playing sub so far for raid. I thought about trying sin tonight for our farm kills just to get a better idea of how i perform with each spec for the same bosses. Like i said i have plenty of gear ive got myth track Pbox,Gaze and guidon for trinkets so swapping is very easy.

[proven kettle]

play sin this week for sure then, get some comparison data for your own performance.

[gusty pagoda]

yeah it also saves me a week of not having to swap all 5 crafted items back to crit mastery once again lmao

especially if i perform better as sin compared to sub

[proven kettle]

that's rough buddy

[sacred oyster]

crit mastery on sin isnt gonna be a huge difference.

[proven kettle]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stats
You will always get more accurate results using Raidbots Top Gear, as stat values will flucuate depending on gear and situation.

Agility (Item level) > Crit > Haste > Mastery >>>> Vers
The ratio between secondaries ends up being roughly 40/33/26/1

[proven kettle]

well mine are backwards.

[sacred oyster]

my sims actually had me favoring mastery on crafted items over haste as had enough haste from other sources but i do focus DSlice sims

[buoyant herald]

Your secondary distribution is incredibly unlikely to have more impact than your ability to play each spec

Unless you can’t hit haste caps for sub

[proven kettle]

i don't have near enough haste.

[gusty pagoda]

i forget that sin doesnt have the 700 cap on haste like sub does lmao,

[sharp viper]

are there no .0.7 PTR realms available or did my game somehow get the incorrect version

[trim cairn]

How big is the diff between haste and mastery on aoe? Ballpark?

[spice surge]

Ye the haste breakpoint is dumb, what can you do

[buoyant herald]

Complain on discord

[dry marsh]

That would help a lot actually ty

[dry marsh]

Buddy idk I couldn’t tell you I actuslly feel like I’m constantly pressing things but maybe I just go monkey brain

[latent kernel]

The Chad way of deciding is to just play what speaks to you most fantasy wise (it’s sin rogue)

[gusty pagoda]

its always gonna be sin rogue if thats the case lmao 😂

[honest oxide]

Is there a spreadsheet showing the value of atrophic per boss?

[balmy condor]

gotchu

[hybrid skiff]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4XCNvMrB6c7AKQR9?fight=last

help

[spice surge]

What is this fall damage you speak of? Something my panda rogue is too fat to experience?

[balmy condor]

I have a special spreadsheet to show the value for your character

[hybrid skiff]

do yall use crippling in dungeons? I feel like it's just sometimes an annoyance

[spice surge]

Thanks bud

[spice surge]

Generally no

[balmy condor]

yeah you can just turn it off

[spice surge]

But you can apply it for sections where you want it

And then just turn it off ye

[hybrid skiff]

yeah I just play with it off, figure it doesn't hurt

[balmy condor]

this is

incredibly upsetting

[hybrid skiff]

hopefully I win an extra roll for gaze this week :')

[balmy condor]

your using rolls on gaze?

[rugged basalt]

Where is your box

[balmy condor]

when you don't have a puzzle box?

[coral ibex]

[rugged basalt]

Hero track even

[hybrid skiff]

UHHHHH... maaaaybe I should go for box 👀

[balmy condor]

yeah good choice

[rugged basalt]

How far are u in bonus loot rng

[hybrid skiff]

I've rolled once for gaze so far, so we can stop running M Chim all together

[honest oxide]

just to clarify, if u dont eat a hammer on paladins atrophic is trash

[hybrid skiff]

and then rolled twice in Pit cause I was playing outlaw

[rugged basalt]

[balmy condor]

hammers are the only mechanic that isn't reduced by atrophic

[honest oxide]

ah okay

ty

[rugged basalt]

I’d probably fish for a heroic puzzle box bare minimum

[balmy condor]

like everything is affected, except those hammers, the fall damage

and the piss shit tick damage

[rugged basalt]

I bonus looted for gaze but don’t let anyone know about that

[honest oxide]

got it, seems like it's a bit better than it used to be then

[balmy condor]

it's kind of always been like this

there was just one or two fights in the past where you had environmental damage reducing the value by a fair amount