Now I’m sliming out in 37 seconds after my opening, and my bar is a solid inch and a half when I measure from the bottom
#assassination
frosty cedar
real
frigid lagoon
worn geyser
timeline reminders
can use whatever time line addon u want tho doesnt particularly matter
and also u might have to adjust cd usage a bit depending on kill time / transuition time
real pike
Now I’m sliming out in 37 seconds after my opening, and my bar is a solid inch a...
Do you push down the flab in the surrounding area to get an extra half an inch?
slim pebble
!ui
prisma monolithBOT
Resources:
ArcUI - Common UI Replacement
BetterCDM - Enhancements to the Cooldown Manager
MSUF - Common Unit Frame replacement
Platynator - Recommended Nameplate Addon (Plater is not recommended)
(Jundies Profile)
(Whispyr's Profile)
Misc:
Clickable Raid Buffs - Poison Reminder
WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator and cursor replacement
celest crescent
is there a way for us to survive bird on skyreach last boss?
if i insta ss i die anyway
normal mist
SS the tank
pastel roost
Guys is there any way to use Shroud to skip something at the end of algathar ? it was my understanding that the draconic guard were seeing stealth
slim pebble
Does implacable tracking just suck ass on everything
frosty cedar
Guys is there any way to use Shroud to skip something at the end of algathar ? i...
they dont see stealth u can skip at the end
latent kernel
I wish shroud was still op as fuck
frosty cedar
Does implacable tracking just suck ass on everything
yeah but i heard thers some kind of addon that works
!implac
prisma monolithBOT
Implacable is bugged in Blizzard's Cooldown Manager, there is no way to "fix" it without an addon. It can mostly be ignored without losing more than ~0.8%
If you'd like an addon to track implacable, search for Nooka Implacable or use the Curseforge Link
slim pebble
nooka implac something I believe it is called
Ty been a sub Andy for the entire tier and im practicing sin for “higher keys” and can’t track that rn
worn geyser
is your parse just cooked on chimmy if u go second down on mythic
balmy condor
Kinda yeah
royal lantern
addonss can only reskin ingame ui data
worn geyser
i see i thought i played kinda well on this pug kill but did not end up with quite the dmg I wanted idk, do you just like save vanish for add phase even if youre second?
waxen oyster
this is why you gaslamp the raid into going first
and just never change strat
any week after
worn geyser
if it was a set raid id ask prolly but I got into some (actual) ce only pug group so didnt wanna rock the boat till i got my first kill
bitter magnet
!sheet
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
slim pebble
I didnt get my extra roll back?
normal mist
I didnt get my extra roll back?
when did you spend them
slim pebble
when did you spend them
One when it was bugged
normal mist
check mailbox too
vast shuttle
how are people doing 900k dps in pulls with rogue i think my max is around 700k maybe but i can see crazy numbers and i do the same rot
vast shuttle
i have good items and ilvl 278 doing 14 keys i cant do that u now any good way to learn how they do it so good? watching yt havent helped me they show small pulls
normal mist
if you're timing your keys, you dont need to do 900k dps
and that 900k was where, algethar academy first pull?
vast shuttle
well i saw zerocool do it in a 18 maybe even 20 and he did in Windrunner Spire but the mobs have more hp maybe that rlly does make more impact
slim pebble
well i saw zerocool do it in a 18 maybe even 20 and he did in Windrunner Spire b...
Zerocool is an anomaly lol
Just enjoy yourself king
solar wyvern
well i saw zerocool do it in a 18 maybe even 20 and he did in Windrunner Spire b...
Ending 900k or just hitting peak 900k?
vast shuttle
Ending 900k or just hitting peak 900k?
peeking
solar wyvern
Ending 900k without aug is very abnormal
Oh yeah thats normal
Ive peaked 1.4m on algethar
No aug
vast shuttle
huh
solar wyvern
W
vast shuttle
on what key
solar wyvern
19aa
vast shuttle
thats crazy
vernal loom
how can i change the talents to get sudden demise for lower keys?
solar wyvern
Oh even higher actually
vernal loom
or is it not good anymore
vast shuttle
Oh even higher actually
but wtf u cant do this is 14 no way
solar wyvern
No pack will die too fast
runic hinge
Oh even higher actually
Charrend skilled player but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him pc and game.....Maybe he not cheating but maybe he using the game deficit ...and this cant seem on game screen..He needs to check-up
coral ibex
check him pc
onyx veldt
coral ibex
the game deficit
solar wyvern
me dont know that mecha
U have gateway control shard?
He do soak sman
Slam
And u gate .2 after knocm
onyx veldt
ok yea
solar wyvern
Cancels knock
hazy sundial
spice rose
can we cancelaura marcro Implacable? i heard woxtox talk about it
storm forum
iirc you cancel env buff too so all you do is reduce ur env uptime
and you'll have to do your waiting later
in theory you could do it at the very end of a pull/fight if you need energy and you think the boss/pack will die before the end of the next chain
but it doesn't rly make any sense to do it regularly
spice surge
Ye you cant cancelaura implacable itself
lone pasture
spice rose
we stack to 5 stacks and let it fall off for the engery no? and we can skip the 5 seconds of aa´s if we do the cancel?
spice surge
we stack to 5 stacks and let it fall off for the engery no? and we can skip the ...
Well you have to cancel envenom, which means your next envenom will not benefit from any of the talents that buff it
spice surge
Inspiring strikes, Rapid Injection, Dashing Scoundrel and the envenom buff itself
spice rose
Well you have to cancel envenom, which means your next envenom will not benefit ...
it doesnt benefit anyways if we let the apex just run out or not?
spice surge
Well yeah but then youre losing several seconds of uptime of envenom
Then only time id would make sense to cancel it is at times where you have enough energy to continue spamming anyway but dont want to wait
But like i said, then youre losing out on all the benefits of envenom for your big envenom hit
So its like, not good
storm forum
the only time it's reasonable to do this is at the very end of a pull that won't last long enough for a full chain if you wait for apex to drop normally, and the energy from implac will let the new chain be 2+ more buffed envs than if you just full sent into the boss ignoring dropping the chain.
and if you can figure that out on the fly
ur a god
spice surge
Ig technically if you are running some pure bleed build without rapid injection you probably could bind the cancelaura to your envenom and have it up practically all the time
spice rose
unsure why woxtox uses it than, i would ask him but bro probably hits me with a "idk im bad"
spice surge
That seems a bit silly but might be worth 
civic bloom
In m+ should you cast puzzle box pre pull or right before deathmark?
storm forum
right before dm
civic bloom
right before dm
ty
storm forum
to make sure all ur damage is in the box buff window you gotta cast dm+kb within like 5 seconds of using box so using it prepull is just way too early cause we have so much set up
civic bloom
to make sure all ur damage is in the box buff window you gotta cast dm+kb within...
Yeah i've noticed it takes time for us to ramp up dps compared to a Paladin who just pumps on pull
storm forum
begone teal name
pure moth
^
storm forum
no pressing N in this channel
civic bloom
sub exists
Last I touched Sub was in shadowlands
storm forum
same lmao
waxen oyster
sl sub sucked
waxen oyster
cn was an outlaw tier
civic bloom
What would be the optimal dps opener? Garrote twice, rapture if 5 CP then just spam crimson til everthing bleeds to then pop CDs?
waxen oyster
why deny peak
storm forum
double gar > build to 5+ > rup > ct to 5+ > env/box/dm/kb
waxen oyster
ignore i suck at shrirk
storm forum
begone N presser
civic bloom
double gar > build to 5+ > rup > ct to 5+ > env/box/dm/kb
Aha alr ty
civic bloom
Should you use CDs on a pack like the 5 adds after first pull on Windrunner spire?
storm forum
if you think you have time, you can ct + env to full scent of blood stacks
before cds
but you gotta be in like a 17 or something for that tbh
civic bloom
Yeah Im trying to get 15 resi atm Im just struggeling to find ok DPS windows
waxen oyster
actually this was the real n presser tier
yeah igira sucks on farm
no spatter pad
:l
storm forum
unless you know there's like a hero pull or something coming up
just send
its good to get more uses
even if some of them are less effective
civic bloom
ok
waxen oyster
though if i wanted to push higher keys ths ssn
i wouldnt play rogue
none of the specs are interesting to play for extended periods
storm forum
actually this was the real n presser tier
was this abberus? i think i was playing disc that tier
storm forum
ah
waxen oyster
probably the worst sub variant
in a long long time
honestly current sin to me lacks something without shiv
no mini windows to juice
storm forum
i didnt get CE that tier after literal parse goblin griefers in the last 3 bosses of amir so i blocked it from my memory tbh
i was playing assa though
tindral was fun to fly around and eat orbs
storm forum
yeah it was playing fine
waxen oyster
thing is people talked sub being mandatory as if
they were fighting the boss
with rwf timers
xd
storm forum
:p
why did you remind me
im getting so mad now
cause our fucking hpal just
inted every pull
he got a mechanic that would get him out of melee
cause he wanted to parse on prog
storm forum
PTSD so bad from it I only played priest all of TWW
waxen oyster
hot take but
i find players that come back expac launch and quit shortly after
are giant red flags
storm forum
like consistency wise yeah
ive seen a couple of those
but like, you don't usually know that kind of habit until they're saying they're quitting after taking like three pieces of BiS jewelry or whatever
😠
severe meadow
i find players that come back expac launch and quit shortly after
I took a break during Legion, came back for Shadowlands and BFA and quit both of those pretty quick
I was just so disappointed with Shadowlands
severe meadow
I did like Nathria tbh
storm forum
it was all downhill from there
and a lot of the fights were actually kind of whatever
or dog shit
storm forum
nathria killed my guild
and im still mad about it
but thematically, it was super cool looking
proven carbon
most of my quits have been over raid team disbands
the way they were handled just left a bad taste in my mouth each time
i always wanted to keep going but whether it was beef between people or just lack of motivation they all disbanded without notice
scheduled raid night and half the guild/team doesnt show up
get an announcement later on that we're disbanding
quit until next xpac
happened since bfa
storm forum
proven carbon
it was almost always because of things that happened outside of raid night too
like we were fine during raid
but people just could not chill outside of that
storm forum
My first mythic guild died cause my gm/rl was sick of doing everything and the new officers weren't doing anything to help
-# (hindering actually, with the minor power abuse people were complaining about)
storm forum
Yippee
Thankfully I haven't witnessed a guild die first hand since
Although sometimes I do wonder
Maybe I should join a guild with better drama
Cause an officer being hypocritical about something during alt heroic night and my gm dating another guild's gm was really not that juicy
heavy sentinel
I’ve seen multiple raid teams disband due to leaders using loot council to funnel gear
storm forum
Seeing a guild explode cause a healer is banging an officer's husband or something would be peak until I realize I was need to join the guild to get that front row seat.....
Please funnel me gear officers
It will be worth the guild dying I swear
cunning needle
Seeing a guild explode cause a healer is banging an officer's husband or somethi...
this happens more times than it should
storm forum
Yeah but never in front of me
Why is drama allergic to me?
Come back I wanna watch
proven carbon
careful what you wish for
suddenly it involves you and its no longer cinema
storm forum
Oh back when my guild did BoEs as loot instead of guild bank resources, a warrior won and then tried to sell it on the AH and got kicked
That was pretty good
cunning needle
vernal loom
am i dumb?
storm forum
careful what you wish for
suddenly it involves you and its no longer cinema
I went to my gm's wedding, if something like that happened to them I'd be devastated tbh
The warrior getting kicked was mostly "good drama" just cause some salty guildies went digging on their socials and got pretty nasty about them in the secret clique discords
vernal loom
does anyone have good talents for low keys?
storm forum
The faq has a tiny boy weekly keys build
It's alright if nothing gonna live a full dtb dm kb
And extremely funny in very low keys
onyx veldt
i made it into a group
yh this is going to be a long saturday night
vernal loom
The faq has a tiny boy weekly keys build
ty bro, love u
junior olive
sorry confused on when to let envenom buff fall off..im in M+ build but dont know if i should or shouldnt..been reading icyveins guide. What if there's 4+ secs and im almost full on energy? Do i send it or wait? and does thsi apply to trash or boss only?
storm forum
yh this is going to be a long saturday night
Good luck soldier o7
onyx veldt
Good luck soldier o7
ty king
storm forum
sorry confused on when to let envenom buff fall off..im in M+ build but dont kno...
Just send. It's okay. Usually in AoE I don't pool/wait for apex to drop unless I'm less than 90 energy before my next env and the pack is >20%ish hp
storm forum
If ur gonna overcap energy just send always
Cause all the apex gives us is energy
If we're gonna waste that, just send some buffed emvenoms instead
ST isn't that booty cause we take blind side
But yeah it's a little buttcheeks
junior olive
ok tytyt
junior olive
sd build's st is kinda
whats sd
storm forum
But we're not taking it for the boss dam, we're taking it for the funny explosions
waxen oyster
sudden demise
storm forum
Sudden demise
waxen oyster
le pad build
junior olive
ok
junior olive
is it ever ok to switch to sd? for certain dungeons
waxen oyster
i shoulda played regular env
i expected my dps to be regular humans
wrong assumption
storm forum
SD build fine in lower keys, any time you think nothing is gonna live 90% of a full box dm kb
junior olive
ok cool ty..what talent would i switch for it
storm forum
There's a tiny boy build in #assassination-faq
junior olive
oh yea duh ty
waxen oyster
i do find it absolute comedy
storm forum
We take all the dtb line points and put them in bleed stuff I think
storm forum
It is extremely funny to box at 50% and then vanish double gar CT and watch everything explode
waxen oyster
i attacked some warrior in ct build
he tried to leap into an instance and died to sd mid leap
storm forum
viscid spear
viscid spear
Fuck that jellyfish
waxen oyster
an expac later
storm forum
Is wax actually better than 3* oil?
Cause that's extremely funny if true
Love raiding big dub
Assuming servers work
waxen oyster
idk
onyx veldt
LOL
storm forum
I'm still salty about Tuesday
gaunt herald
is it worth to envenom under 5 points to maintain implacable if its going to drop before hitting 80?
storm forum
No
5+ points procs hero talent and stuff
And letting apex drop early still gives good energy regen
gaunt herald
hmm, im hitting the dummy and right around the time my first bleeds are falling off and I reapply I hit energy problems
is that normal?
gaunt herald
ok as long as im not messing something up
and I would always prioritize reapplying bleeds over casting envenom?
gaunt herald
one more thing, does Kingsbane automatically fill all combo points or do I have to wait for the animation of the points loading in?
storm forum
I think it's just cosmetic and you can just send env asap
storm forum
But I like to watch and then press env when it hits 5
Cause I have whimsy in my heart or something idk
gaunt herald
it does feel like youre sendign it early if it doesnt finish lol
viscid spear
<:CatChest:1082969567585914942>
Update: I got every achievement possible aside from the group ones
junior olive
is there a haste cap where you would want to stop stackign haste?
snow kindle
if you sim it will usually tell you when it starts becoming valuable and another stat becomes better
hasty gate
is umbral or radient plume better
buoyant herald
crit version most likely but #sim
quick kestrel
hi is anybody able to help me understand how scaling works in TW? i went from doing top dps before 80 to doing like.... 1/5th of the top dps' damage, and im following the leveling build from icyveins. im level 87 now but i just wanted to make sure it was a scaling thing and not a rotation problem
buoyant herald
any time you're not max level theres zero point comparing anything
game isn't really designed for a smooth power scale
buoyant herald
but to answer your question simply, yes it is a scaling thing
quick kestrel
okay thank you LOL
hasty gate
crit version most likely but #sim
thats what i figure just curious to see what people are doing i havent been able to be blessed with gaze and just got plume and was curious
buoyant herald
gaze's power is more due to the proc than the fact it has mastery
but yeah i suppose if you're going double passive then without gaze you'd have less mastery so sim might value it more on plume idk
real hound
Might be a dumb question, which 3 poisons should I run in pvp? I have crippling and wound poison but should I run deadly poison too or amplifying poison
latent kernel
Might be a dumb question, which 3 poisons should I run in pvp? I have crippling ...
wound poison is hilariously bad, run deadly amp still
real hound
Even with the healing reduction it's bad?
latent kernel
it kinda also depends on what comp ur versing
real hound
When would I want to use it, against a resto druid maybe?
static glacier
Might be a dumb question, which 3 poisons should I run in pvp? I have crippling ...
Run 4, the non combat ones apply certain benefits
waxen oyster
<#226359213427916800> but pretty sure as ass rogue you never want to not run dea...
pretty sure they run wound
but sin is likely the worst spec in pvp rn
by a decent margin
waxen oyster
i mean sub was guaranteed to be good considering entering dance gives you cheap
scenic nacelle
!implacable
prisma monolithBOT
Implacable is bugged in Blizzard's Cooldown Manager, there is no way to "fix" it without an addon. It can mostly be ignored without losing more than ~0.8%
If you'd like an addon to track implacable, search for Nooka Implacable or use the Curseforge Link
slim pebble
I was checking archon, is it worth it to swap weapon posioner for fatal concoction?
hollow river
When would I want to use it, against a resto druid maybe?
you use wound poison at all times in pvp
vapid canopy
in Algethar academy on the first pull, when I crimson tempest spam do i spend cps on envenoms in between or do i just spam crimson temp fully non stop until all all targets have bleeds and NOT spend CPs in between? sorry if this is a dumb ass question lol
jolly stirrup
I think AA is one of the few pulls where it doesn't matter if you spam CT
I dont know how it is in high keys, but up until +12 you can freely press CT
vapid canopy
interesting, okay. yeah im talking specifically in high keys ill have some find some videos of other rogues doing it
rugged warren
dmg on the shitters is irrelevant tho
slim pebble
Are enchants that big this tier? I’ve been a sub Andy but as I’m getting into higher stuff I see the allure of sin. Swapping enchants and gems was like a 2.5% dps increase
unique zodiac
What enchants are you all rocking for assassination? I see some people doing double acuity and some acuity/janalai
balmy condor
whatever sims higher
burnt ember
I know the guide says to use vanish + improve garrote on cd, is there sort of a window where we hold vanish to try to line it up with deathmark?
I'm sure that's kind of a personal judgment thing but I'm looking for opinions lol
balmy condor
depends heavily on situation
in general if holding for deathmark makes you lose casts, you wouldn't bother lining it up
burnt ember
makes sense to me. ty
One more thing, my b, what are your thoughts about using shiv to come up to 5 cp just to get a rupture going or to keep envenom up before 80 when low energy?
balmy condor
I just threw up a little
burnt ember
got it lol
balmy condor
that is technically a min-max, but some streamers have completely misunderstood the min-max and just slam it all the time for cp
which is the dumbest shit
and it makes me really sad
cause pressing shiv for cp is only a gain if all of the following are true:
- you're taking the shiv cost reduction talent
- you're in 1-3 target cleave
- you're playing deathstalker
- darkest night is active
- you're at 6cp, thus needing 1 more to hit the max
and the dumbass way to interpret that is "hit shiv for cp if I need cp"
which is simply incorrect
burnt ember
Totally. I have been using it in "oh shit" situations like I want 80 implacable and it's about to fall off at 65 just to get one more envenom, or if I wait too long on a rupture, but it feels so bad
And I was guessing it's not really an optimization
But more a cure to my dumbassery
Not that the implacable scenario is an emergency
But idk
balmy condor
65 implacable technically better than 80 implacable
just from an energy standpoint
the reason we want 80 is because of rapid injection trying to have us keep the chain going
but like, if you're at 65 and it drops
that's totally fine
if you can't do it, you can't do it
and sims play that the same way
no energy? implacable drops early? damn shame, oh well, moving on
burnt ember
That's extremely good to know. I have been honestly way too concerned about my implacable stacks I guess
balmy condor
implacable is... just kinda fine
from the perspective of like, a talent that buffs your damage and gives energy, it's really good actually
it's like dashing scoundrel good. Similar energy, 10% envenom damage
but from the perspective of "this talent is the only reason I would ever want to pool or manage my energy in any way, and no other talent exists to facilitate that for some reason"
implacable just simply cannot fill those shoes
the whole energy management gameplay is a big hole that needs to be filled by various talents
and what happens is implacable is the only thing there to fill the hole
and it just can't
burnt ember
It honestly seems only half designed
balmy condor
it's too much to bare
implacable honestly is a great design, but for what it needs to do, it's too weak
and the duration/pressure of envenoms buff is kinda whack
like the push and pull in theory is rapid injection/dashing scoundrel pushing you to keep chaining, and implacable pulling you to drop the chain
and that's fine, that works on paper
but the balance of that push/pull is basically non-existent right now, given envenoms uptime is near infinite
when rapid injection/dashing scoundrel is frankly just a guaranteed bonus, rather than something you have to try and work towards
there's no counterbalance to dropping the buff for implacable
which makes implacable feel bad
cause instead of having a choice of press envenom or hold envenom
it's just reduced to "I have to drop this fuckass buff cause I'm just staring at implacable the whole time"
it's just a half-baked idea that is actually really cool
but needs a lot more tuning and fiddling to get the balance between the two sides to even out
burnt ember
I have a shit load of thoughts about that that I will type in like 5 minutes lol
but subjectively you are right it feels awful
radiant aspen
honestly fk blizzard bro afther reading this appeal response i legit have not even ounce of repsect left for this company
dire flume
i tried to launch maplestory and its just been not repsonding for 10 minutes
radiant aspen
i tried to launch maplestory and its just been not repsonding for 10 minutes
lemme check
dire flume
it finally launched after i said that 
haughty flicker
radiant aspen
haughty flicker
last time i tried it kept crashing when i tried to log onto my ren
radiant aspen
dude maplestory so far is w
haughty flicker
lets see if thats fixed
radiant aspen
it finally launched after i said that <:garf:1320173032743899157>
what class u play
?
dire flume
no idea i havnt opened the game yet
dire flume
i think i want to play canonner and if nmot that then pathfinder maybe
burnt ember
but needs a lot more tuning and fiddling to get the balance between the two side...
I love the concept of a sun/moon system like that for rogues, but the system as it stands feels like managing my 401k or something.
And what I mean by that is this
It is really fun and feels very cool to just be doing shit loads of damage with rapid fire envenoms that are all buffed and seeing the numbers go up
balmy condor
i think i want to play canonner and if nmot that then pathfinder maybe
MONKEY
burnt ember
But like, the benefit from implacable is not big enough that it also feels like "wow this is so fun and good" to let it fall off and get the energy regen back
It just feels like if I don't do it, at some point in the fight I will feel energy starved and behind and I won't have had the cumulative benefits of letting them fall off throughout the fight
dire flume
i dont really care for the monkey but 5 big booms
burnt ember
So it feels like I should let them fall off because math, not because that's how the class should work
And that is what is subjectively frustrating about the mechanic to me
I know it is good to do, but it doesn't feel good to do
haughty flicker
i dont really care for the monkey but 5 big booms
imagine not caring for the monkey
idk if you deserve to play cannoneer
balmy condor
i dont really care for the monkey but 5 big booms
bro
but it's a monkey
riding a giant bullet bill
dire flume
i dont like monkeys
haughty flicker
then why are you here
balmy condor
cannoneer is the class for monkey though 
haughty flicker
balmy condor
I love the concept of a sun/moon system like that for rogues, but the system as ...
correct yes
balmy condor
But like, the benefit from implacable is not big enough that it also feels like ...
also true
my very undercooked and problematic "solution"
dire flume
the other option is corsair but i dont lik eher hair colour
balmy condor
is that when you press envenom, the buff is like 15-20 seconds, no refresh, and you just slam
and then it drops on its own
and you pool before going into the next envenom, which starts the next 15-20 second window
balmy condor
anyway imagine playing cannoneer when you could be playing ren
I'm burning an aran for cw3
burnt ember
Well that's just straight up better than what we have now
haughty flicker
idk what im gonna burn yet
burnt ember
The stacking it up to 80 part is pointless feeling
balmy condor
The stacking it up to 80 part is pointless feeling
idk why they capped it to be fair
balmy condor
is new wild hunter cool
it is pretty cool
but it's also kinda whatever
you get like 5 FMAs
and they're all blue
burnt ember
That paired with like taking tea out for 'sin and just making the energy regen giga for pooling periods would make the class feel fun
haughty flicker
well the bm in me does like blue
balmy condor
That paired with like taking tea out for 'sin and just making the energy regen g...
that's what I'm sayin
but then I get flamed cause "why do you want assa to be slow, just buff energy regen"
burnt ember
That would be super arcane mage from BFA coded but without the dumb arcane circle and that would be so sick
balmy condor
no darkness without light - sock rat tees or whatever
burnt ember
Well hopefully they fix it, because for right now it is half baked and there needs to be more of an emphasis on burst windows absolutely.
brittle quail
honestly i dont know if id like that version of assa
but they need to fix energy for assa / outlaw
only sub feels ok in that regard
zinc frost
but they need to fix energy for assa / outlaw
Fix what energy issues for assa?
brittle quail
pooling not being a thing
but implacable feeling like shit forcing you to do nothing
idk
i think i prefer unlimited energy assa
but pooling during long period of time like whispyr is describing doesnt sound that bad either
radiant aspen
dude why people just dont ignore implacable
just full ignore it
be happy like me
brittle quail
then its even worse
apex talent
just ignore it
then why is it there then
just remove it
zinc frost
You said you liked unlimited energy? Why is it there then?
radiant aspen
never once i considerd apex talants
its not dps losses if it is then its like 0.8% to 1%
brittle quail
You said you liked unlimited energy? Why is it there then?
didnt say it was good design, just that i liked it x)
and outlaw being energy starved right now
i have no words to describe how shit it feels
radiant aspen
i personally thing pooling is not good designe but that just me 😉
runic hinge
i think pooling is good design if it feels like its worth doing
pooling for a little extra energy feels kinda meh
brittle quail
i personally thing pooling is not good designe but that just me 😉
mmmh i think its good design, but i don't think i like it anymore but at the same i had the most fun on assa when it was a thing
grim jay
its fine to not like pooling
there are plenty specs that dont
imo pooling doesnt have enough impact rn
it needs to really brick your dps if not done right
deft vault
Why do people even like pooling. It doesnt feel good to play and i think its a horrible way to add skill expression to a spec. "Im better at not pressing button than you so im better" i know the spec is pretty easy yo play but there has yo be a better way to add skill expression than pooling
grim jay
ADHD spaming skills is worse and if you have skills used less, they can deal more dmg
zinc frost
Personally - pooling just gives me something extra to think about and keeps me a little more engaged.
grim jay
planning ahead is kinda what rogue should be about and thats the way you do it on sin potentially
deft vault
Personally - pooling just gives me something extra to think about and keeps me a...
Yeah but they could do something better than pooling
worn geyser
why not something else and also pooling, managing your resources well to use them when they will grant you greater damage is a good skill to have in specs i think
deft vault
Meh i mean our ressouce could pretty much be combo point. Mana doesnt matter for all the caster
Save for arcane
grim jay
yeah they ruined it on all the casters
so they need to ruin
it everywhere
also they kinda did smth else with mana
worn geyser
i mean if ur arguing we shouldnt have energy at all i think that would be detrimental greatly to how sin rogue feels
deft vault
No no im.not saying that but i think pooling being a big thing for assa and THE way to add skill expression to assa is bad
Having to pool sometimes is fine to me
But if its very important i think thr class feels worse to play
worn geyser
ye i disagree for sure, i think pooling should be much more impactful, its fun to plan your resources ahead of time
radiant aspen
lts be honest current assa apex is ussles preatty much
burnt ember
On single target fights it seems to me that when I remember implacable I do about 2-4% more damage, it seems.
Which is not enough for an apex talent imo
deft vault
What im saying is that rn its pretty good to me but i feel there could be better than to add skill expression to thr class rather than make pooling more important
grim jay
they want classes easy
they did it across the board
they dont want more or better skill expressions
worn geyser
ye sin isnt getting much more complex anytime soon prolly with how they treated sub lol
deft vault
Sub got shafted so bad lol
burnt ember
Sub lowkey has interesting timing considerations and the different timings between dances and shadowblades is actually more interesting to play around than implacable lol
worn geyser
ye the sub apex talent is way cooler , the sin one is lame
grim jay
ye idk its not like sub was hard before
radiant aspen
yeah asking ur rl to 20 pull is super interesting
grim jay
yeah asking ur rl to 20 pull is super interesting
??
worn geyser
it wasnt that hard but it just had more going on at least, i kinda also liked the mortal kombat combo opener u had to do b4
radiant aspen
dont u have to pre dance as sub now ? idk i dont play sub thats what i heard
maybe im wrong
burnt ember
Absolutely not
deft vault
U just hit dance when u respawn
grim jay
dont u have to pre dance as sub now ? idk i dont play sub thats what i heard
you can just dance immediately afer reviving
haughty flicker
i mean you hit dance when you respawn and its ready by the time the boss is pulled
grim jay
you dont need a separate timer
haughty flicker
its the exact same as doing it with symbols last season
runic hinge
burnt ember
It's just straight up shadowstrike up to full cp, dance + blade + guidon, secret technique, then build and spend while casting dance whenever secret techniques is up until blades is less than 20 second CD and you stop dancing until blades comes up so you have guarunteed two for every blades window.
That's the entire rotation
Which fits in two lines
So that's hilarious
grim jay
It's just straight up shadowstrike up to full cp, dance + blade + guidon, secret...
so like
all of the specs
kinda
burnt ember
'Sin is more complicated than that
open mantle
whats assa like on L’ura
deft vault
Not really lol
grim jay
'Sin is more complicated than that
where?
burnt ember
whats assa like on L’ura
IMO it is very, very good with the exception of the adds that have to be cleaved down. Those are a real weakness because they have to die too fast to make our bleeds work well.
deft vault
Maintain dots and build cp with mut thrn spend on envenom send kb on cd and pair it with dm
Thats likr 95% of the way there for assa
open mantle
i do that
open mantle
IMO it is very, very good with the exception of the adds that have to be cleaved...
ye i was thinking that
burnt ember
Optimal 'Sin rotation is stealth into ambush, imp garrote, rupture, algethar puzzle box, deathmark, potion, kingsbane, then build to envenom spam. If during lust you don't drop envenom buff because you would overcap, outside you do unless you just popped a tea and will overcap. You vanish to get an ambush and imp garrote, sometimes you have to cast imp garrote twice to get full duration, etc.. It's moderately difficult.
Order matters and there are lots of circumstances where you can squeeze out more optimal damage
That's why I'm in here asking Whispyr annoying niche rotation questions like once a week lol
burnt ember
And that's not bringing up AOE situations which require timings and estimating when mobs will die
deft vault
Assa has gotta be one of thr easiest spec in the game lol
burnt ember
That's cap
I've played BM and enhance lmao
But also I played enhance for 10 years once upon a time so it feels very easy to me now
And tbh sub is two buttons with managing burst windows, it is much easier than 'sin.
Even outlaw is easier than 'sin other than its opener, but that's because it's designed well and 'sin is designed like dogass so you have to play around that
zinc frost
outlaw never was hard
Hard on my boomer hands maybe
grim jay
they arent really more or less difficult than the other one
plucky mica
I tried outlaw recently and found it much harder than sin 😂
deft vault
Sub has a lot of micro optimisation that makes little sense
Assa rverything is pretty straightforward
worn geyser
i mean none of them are partciularly harder than the other they are all kinda a joke with midnight changes
plucky mica
The thing I need to get my head round with sin in M+ is cooldown usage and when to hold mark vs just use even though I know a boss is coming up
I sit on it too long I think sometimes for bosses when trash would be better potentially
burnt ember
That's true, being a sub player who parses top in the world is pretty hard, but I will say getting a 95+ parse on sub for me has been much easier than getting one on 'sin. 
plucky mica
Not wanting to ‘waste’ it persay when a better opportunity may present itself
burnt ember
Oh yeah just send it
Always send it
As sub
As 'sin there are many times to hold deathmark + kingsbane, but as sub just always be sending it
plucky mica
Yeah I’m only sin really so working out when to hold vs not basically
I can only seem to make sin work 😂 other two specs I suck as, but I like sin so that’s fine
burnt ember
My recommendation for playing sub is think less press more buttons
grim jay
Hard on my boomer hands maybe
thats somewhat concerning irl
burnt ember
BUT when that shadowblades CD timer says something in the teens, do NOT hit dance
And you'll be good
burnt ember
Wait now I have to ask a question, are bonus rolls dropping myth track gear in mythic plus???
iron thorn
in 10s yes
iron thorn
yeah you get 3 mythic items every week now
because even if vault is shit
you just take an extra bonusroll now instead of a socket
yanno?
burnt ember
Well then I used my bonus roll stupid af this week lol
iron thorn
if you don't raid mythic that's probably still valid
iron thorn
burnt ember
We're progging chimaeris rn because we just passed salhadar
iron thorn
oh you did sally before?
burnt ember
SO like my team is not good
iron thorn
interesting
burnt ember
But we're working on it lol
iron thorn
we're progging chim after killing vorasius
burnt ember
Salhadar was emotionally taxing for my group lol
iron thorn
tmrw full chim prog evening
and maybe few pulls into sally if we manage to kill chim in a timely manner
we got good dam
40% b4 intermission
burnt ember
I think it takes two rolls to reroll on a raid boss
So you likely don't have enough to roll on him tomorrow
I think we only got two this week?
But we're getting replacements next week for the ones this week that might have glitched? idk
sonic zinc
2 every week and u can get an extra one from cashing in vault tokens
quiet star
Sub has a lot of micro optimisation that makes little sense
isn't it most dumb rotation possible?
spice surge
If you ignore the bits that aren't easy and straightforward it's very dumb yes
quiet star
If you ignore the bits that aren't easy and straightforward it's very dumb yes
which bits?
spice surge
Using trinket 1s before CDs, how you use your CDs (not everything should be pressed immediately when it's ready), gotta macro things with dance and never lose more than 0.1s uptime during dance
And apex stuff by shadowstriking twice
quiet star
Using trinket 1s before CDs, how you use your CDs (not everything should be pres...
heh?
"never lose more than 0.1s uptime during dance" - what do you mean?
runic hinge
if a single gcd is a little late you lose one in dance and its less damage
quiet star
and that's fine lol
it similar to deathmark/kingsbane where you need to keep uptime, no?
runic hinge
missing a gcd by .1 in dm doesnt lose you nearly as much daamge
vestal wren
"never lose more than 0.1s uptime during dance" - what do you mean?
basically, shadow dance extension from haste is in small increments, so you need to not introduce any delay to reliably hit all gcds
spice surge
No, because dm lasts 16 seconds, not 15.1 seconds
quiet star
missing a gcd by .1 in dm doesnt lose you nearly as much daamge
.1 is not intended mechanic bro
if sim say so
it doesn't mean it was designed like that
spice surge
Both of those are 16 globals if you don't lose any uptime
reef flower
Just simmed dungeon slice: 125k as sin, 161k as outlaw, is the difference supposed to be that big? Char is 275, 30 ish Crit / 21% haste, 11% mastery 285 weapon MH for both spe, same OH used.
balmy condor
can't compare specs using sims like that
reef flower
Ok only to compare gear i guess
balmy condor
correct
reef flower
Ty chief
glossy dust
cutie @balmy condor
balmy condor
that's me
quiet star
thats kinda not important
so as highlighted before bugs and optimization
runic hinge
.1 is not intended mechanic bro
i mean the dance extension is definitely designed so you stack haste for an extra gcd
there's even suggested amounts of "extra" haste to get to give yourself some grace of an extra .1
intended is hard to say because blizz doesnt tell you how to play and maybe they dont think stacking enough haste for 2 extra gcds with a .1 second grace period is good but its an option that does more damage
quiet star
intended is hard to say because blizz doesnt tell you how to play and maybe they...
that what I mean
runic hinge
so you say the spec is bugged and stupid but you wanna ignore optimizations they've found as "not intended" when there isnt explicit intention anywhere
quiet star
because it really looks like sim rotation, which is fine, but expecting to not fail .1 is beyond human capabilities
runic hinge
100 ms is a lot of time tbh
quiet star
bruh
grim jay
so as highlighted before bugs and optimization
it doesnt change anything about it being more difficult
quiet star
it doesnt change anything about it being more difficult
actually from what I read you can make it harder to play by minmaxing, which is fine
grim jay
ye but it doesnt matter if the minmax is intended or not
also the 0.1s depend on your haste
quiet star
ye but it doesnt matter if the minmax is intended or not
you also can make assa in deathstalker harder to play now
if you want of course
grim jay
ye not really
deathstalker isnt harder to play
its more annoying, but not harder
not a straight gain either
reef flower
Do you guys stay in sin for every raid encounters usually or do you switch between sub and sin frequently?
quiet star
its more annoying, but not harder
subjective really, with new mark of death you have some space to mixmaxing every 20 sec
is it annoying? yes
runic hinge
you mean a niche optimization thats stupid?
like you were dogging on sub for having?
grim jay
well funny enough
the 0.1s thingy on sub
is the result of whats intended
and I'm pretty sure the sniping stuff isnt
quiet star
is the result of whats intended
intended is extra space, not reacting in .1
runic hinge
youre not reacting tho
quiet star
and I'm pretty sure the sniping stuff isnt
it really very clear that it can be used like that
runic hinge
like your dance gcds should be pre-planned
grim jay
it really very clear that it can be used like that
doesnt mean its intended
quiet star
don't know who design rogue, but they shouldn't be dumb to not expect that
quiet star
to be frank it's interesting how potential damage gain you can get with that
not sure that it can be sim really
grim jay
best outcome would be them fixing that shit before DS will be the play again
royal lantern
it for sure aint intended
are you sure
grim jay
are you sure
very much so, but I could also be wrong
it certainly doesnt seem to hold much value
quiet star
best outcome would be them fixing that shit before DS will be the play again
if they will bump numbers everyone will play it, lol
usual case in wow
jolly stirrup
100 ms is a lot of time tbh
Not sure if ragebait or not 
grim jay
if they will bump numbers everyone will play it, lol
obviously, doesnt mean they couldnt just fix the shit beforehand
grim jay
Not sure if ragebait or not <:hmm:1072885022660497409>
its 100 times more than 1ms
see how big it sounds now
quiet star
obviously, doesnt mean they couldnt just fix the shit beforehand
I guess they trying, mark really makes it a bit better
quiet star
in M+ priority can be changed
quiet star
so no, I thing it's a good change
royal lantern
you mean like they did with festering scythe? nah that wouldnt be thematic
when dk allready applied their dot stuff to everything with 1 button btw
so like, it wassnt even a real problem in the first place
grim jay
when dk allready applied their dot stuff to everything with 1 button btw
and could refresh scythe at any point they wanted
royal lantern
so fatebound 2.0
hero talents are dogshit passive dmg increase
more news at 10
do you really wanna die on the hill that deathstalker sshould stay like it is because its "unique" when its just dogshit
quiet star
hero talents are dogshit passive dmg increase
but actually deathstalker is an example of active spec, but it's annoying
royal lantern
it isnt even active
its literally just "play like you always do, but target swapping is cancer now"
quiet star
now it is
grim jay
it isnt even active
the degen sniping kinda is
to the point where you dont really play the spec for some seconds
great change
royal lantern
the degen sniping kinda is
which is excatly the kind of shit they dont want
so CLEARLY its intended
quiet star
because how would you stop it
why would you stop it, if noone plays it
royal lantern
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
grim jay
and it doesnt have to be shit just because it is less frequently played
we had people taking a big L in some seasons to not deal with it
quiet star
it clearly is part of why people dont play it
I still think if something do numbers in wow - people will play it
no matter how dogshit it will be
grim jay
that doesnt make it any better
quiet star
true
but at least when people starting to play it blizz can react
like mm with hydra
cancer thing
grim jay
if I wanna do stuff that isnt as much fun just because its better, I might aswell just do overtime at work instead of playing a game
quiet star
if I wanna do stuff that isnt as much fun just because its better, I might aswel...
wow is second work already, do overtimes on wow
royal lantern
no matter how dogshit it will be
you missed deathstalker in tww then lol
where we had people try to find excuses to NOT play that dogshit mark crap all the time
quiet star
you missed deathstalker in tww then lol
I didn't I really played assa rogue a bit in s1
royal lantern
and even when we had situations where it was "yeha shitstalker is better in those situations" and people STILL didnt touch it, even in top logs
quiet star
and as I remember deasthstalker was main spec for m+
royal lantern
yeha, and nobody played assa in m+ anyway, in big parts because of how bad shitstalker was to play there
quiet star
yeha, and nobody played assa in m+ anyway, in big parts because of how bad shits...
just checked raider io, first page for s1 rogues is ofc with stalker, so idk
jolly stirrup
when im playing cs it is
worn geyser
you missed deathstalker in tww then lol
i loved DS in s2 tww , i loved that shit way more than FB manaforge at least on the ptr(i missed MF after ptr mythic testing)
worn geyser
was so fun in M+
instead of spread dots slam envenom, u had like alot more going on
fb is just soo boring
royal lantern
what more going on
mark on big enemy
cleave from big enemy
OMG SO MUCH MORE GOING ON
runic hinge
mark made me wanna die
royal lantern
you know, the same thing we do right now
quiet star
mark made me wanna die
deadstalker
worn geyser
i mean it wasnt an insane amount more, but just a bit more going on than press CT hit enveom press CT hit envenom
grim jay
idk like you can ask tryan how adamant I was about playing deathstalker
and how mark wasnt much of an issue
while I still say its shit
it defiinitely takes some fun away
worn geyser
it def sucked in alot of ways but idk that version of sin was def less boring even tho it was hella cringe in other ways
royal lantern
i mean it wasnt an insane amount more, but just a bit more going on than press C...
it was literally the same gameplay
what the hell did you do different
grim jay
it mostly just made swapping worse and that was about it
royal lantern
literally the only difference was the sometimes you did a max cp finisher (which in m+ didnt even mattered cus in aoe you do max cp finishers all the time anyway)
AND that got removed in midnight
the hero talents are
"do passive more dmg"
and "do passive more dmg, cant target swap anymore cus mark lol"
there is no gameplay change
worn geyser
idk there was small stuff in keys to maximize some damage, like sometimes you snipe a target with a DN envenom to reset, ig u right prolly wasnt mark that I liked about that version of sin tho now that I think about it most of the gameplay that was diff was like through IC and shiv compared to midnight
its kinda boring to press bleeds once and CT to keep them up with current version rather than trying to manage them through manual mouseover and optimizing IC , but the newer version is def 'smoother' to play in keys now
cinder mountain
gameplay was the same, annoyance was larger
it wasnt fun min maxing vanish around the key
but it was “more going on”
I think that only thing “better” in that version was picking dotting targets
on large pulls rolling CT in shit mobs
worn geyser
i want my dry shiv massive envenoms
rugged basalt
Would be wise
jagged heron
ty baby
grim jay
depends on what you already have
balmy condor
the double weapon craft was bad
was no crests
he's fine
259 is no crest spend
if they were double 285 I would weep
jagged heron
you should just spam reroll pit yes
its my twink, my boys pushing me through 10keys and i wanted to do some dmg 😄
balmy condor
you could still do more crafting a different slot
it's actually not THAT bad anymore
cause autos are like
a billion % dam
jagged heron
if they were double 285 I would weep
we dont do that?
whats the 2nd weap we want to use?
jagged heron
kk ty
im just fking around with that rogue when my main guys are not online and were not pushing
and assa looks hella fun
iron thorn
choosing rogue as the fucking around spec
jagged heron
1000% worth it
jagged heron
im playing ret pala compare those FUN wise
iron thorn
but nah, i'm having good fun as assa in keys too
i just get to play the game more on aug
jagged heron
i just get to play the game more on aug
ye true
grim jay
or atleast not many
iron thorn
like idk i was invited to a 15 earlier on a key i only timed on 12 as aug
on rogue i wait 10mins to get accepted for a weekly lol
and dps meter still looks like that in the end
grim jay
community perception is a bitch
iron thorn
ya
viral sage
why are top rogue running fatal concoction now instead of secondary poisoning? is it just a numbers thing?
balmy condor
more st less cleave
vernal comet
I just started play assassination rogue today. Is there a specific dungeon I should use my bonus roll tokens on?
jagged heron
like idk i was invited to a 15 earlier on a key i only timed on 12 as aug
what consumables are you using on rogue? on the ret i use phönix oil for weap, lights potential for macro wings and this purple flask for mastery
i cant use oil here since we poison our weaps right?
but the other 2 i use?
runic hinge
you can oil
jagged heron
oh okay thought i heard something else
iron thorn
crit flask, oils and main stat pot
kindred flare
Can we properly track the apex talent yet in 12.0.5?
iron thorn
no
prisma monolithBOT
Implacable is bugged in Blizzard's Cooldown Manager, there is no way to "fix" it without an addon. It can mostly be ignored without losing more than ~0.8%
If you'd like an addon to track implacable, search for Nooka Implacable or use the Curseforge Link
royal hazel
question. in M+ build we take secondary posion.. does that apply to only one nearby target or many
desert crest
FoK applies it to all
desert crest
ohh mb thought you just meant the 2nd poison from DTB
I suspect it is taken because it makes melee stronger in aoe
iron chasm
In the m+ section of the wowhead guide for skyreach it says "Rogue can do nothing special" though I am kinda sure that I cancelled the Lens Flare cast of the last boss with vanish. Are there any other things in the current season where vanish can skip a complete boss mechanic?
scenic stratus
how many targets do i need to spread dots to to fully support fan spam?
desert crest
We spread bleeds with crimson until all targets have bleeds
Then we use fan as builder
scenic stratus
kk ty
amber brook
Can confirm that vanish avoids lens flare
little tulip
um in what way is implacable bugged by the way
i've been tracking envenom and implacable and i can get it started reliably
royal lantern
it bugs out when you use envenom while the energy gain buff from implacable is running
gaunt mortar
Does Anyone know the discord for rogues for the mop server ?
I have a few mop questions
little tulip
what so what does that look like with regular cdm
you start starving despite refreshing the buff or something
gaunt mortar
Can someone help me with some mop questions plz ? As a sin rogue why do some guides talk about opening up with garrote and others are talking about using mutilate?
random pelican
little tulip
i see
wide ferry
Why by the time i get bleeds on all targets i have no energy, damm i kinda miss tww....
mortal tusk
hello, in AA wich buff do we take, critical / hast or mastery ?
little tulip
mastery i think
make sure you're following the opener
you should have enough energy to get deathmark/kb and a few crimson tempests out w/ implacable up
garrote > 5cp rupture however you get it > refresh garrote > build 5cp env however you get it> puzzy > 5cp env > pot > dm/kb > ct to spread bleeds
mortal tusk
garrote > 5cp rupture however you get it > refresh garrote > build 5cp env howev...
i've macroted pot with puzzi, is that bad ?
little tulip
don't ask me
polar jasper
In the m+ section of the wowhead guide for skyreach it says "Rogue can do nothin...
I’m not sure but u can probably vanish the birds knockback, too.
Dunno if they keep targeting u after, tho.
U can also use evasion if u r targeted by the adds b4 3rd boss.
Save sprint for the bridge after 3rd boss. There are several skip options for it, too.
Ofc u can cloak any magical stuff. Expect the lens flare from last one. It counts as physical somehow afaik.
little tulip
im a luddite i don't use macros on any of the specs
except mouseover and focus
combat pot is ctrl + z fwiw
little tulip
i've macroted pot with puzzi, is that bad ?
there's probably some value in having pot up during those implacable envenoms though idk..i think i pot after the first tick of deathmark which isn't much better
envenom > shift + 1 > ctrl + z > t
little tulip
yeah i think i was better about it in s1
also just retraining on applying improved garrote when it falls off also forgot we don't envenom before dm etc lol ty
gaunt mortar
Why do we open with garrote instead of mutilate ?
static geyser
Why would you open with mutilate
gaunt mortar
Some mop guides say too others say to open with garrote
little tulip
we're yappin about retail
gaunt mortar
https://tenor.com/view/monday-heheh-hehehe-gif-7179699631617553671
Hahahah
little tulip
ngl the mop campaign
uhh idk if there's a mop discussion channel just classic apparently?
gaunt mortar
Yeah idk man just want to get better and don’t understand why some guides say use garrote others say use mutilate
And all the mop videos are from like 2 years ago
little tulip
well think of it like this
garrote might be better on adds that live the full duration before dying
mutilate might be better for world content
and you need to find guides that fit the content you're doing
raiding? find a assa raid guide etc
gaunt mortar
Yes I raid and ok I’ll keep looking
reef flower
Are there cool stuff to do in prekey or during bubble or is it just poison/prepot and go blastin?
little tulip
on sub explaining how cloud cover works is a play but idk about assa except telling the other dps to do kicks while you setup cleave
royal lantern
Can someone help me with some mop questions plz ? As a sin rogue why do some gui...
#classic-discussion probably has a link in its pins or something like that?
quiet star
can't decide what to craft after weapon
if I'm rushing pos, I will have cloak/wrists/belt/neck/ring etc
so what is actually left is another ring only?
