assassination

[storm forum]

aug make my number go big though

do not check logs

[fallow canopy]

Augs be stealing my dopamine 🥀

[royal lantern]

i dont care

not supporting a passenger princes

go and play healer like normal people if you want that

[storm forum]

healer is so this tier

dps is so payphone its great

[sacred oyster]

for lura fight P1, my damage was total ass due to the ads being the primary damage target.should i just be ignoring the ads and send CD's on lura?

and just dump envenoms on ads?

[golden loom]

mythic?

[sacred oyster]

HC

[royal lantern]

dont let healers gaslight you into thinking that

[sacred oyster]

they die so fast so bleeds dont get any time to do anything

[golden loom]

yea sounds about right

single target fight

[haughty flicker]

hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss hit boss

[severe silo]

You're a asa, you never change your objective

[royal lantern]

shitposting?

[storm forum]

buddy I am a healer

I'm gaslighting myself

[royal lantern]

see

gaslighting isnt real btw

[storm forum]

i throwing my priest into the trash

[weary stump]

A healer spy in our rogue channel

[quiet star]

ffs

[sacred oyster]

noo, we gotta represent the top 2 underdogs

[weary stump]

Get em boys

[quiet star]

just shadowstep into chakram

[fallow canopy]

At least its not a moonkin

[royal lantern]

bro, nobody here actually plays rogue

[quiet star]

that was hilarious

[royal lantern]

not a new thing

[weary stump]

Yeah but being a healer isn't permitted here

[haughty flicker]

imagine playing rogue

[weary stump]

We play glorp instead

[storm forum]

oracle (11% ahead of VW) just got a 1% buff while VW got like a 15% nerf I'm nuking blizz hq
-# (for legal reasons, this is a joke)

[sacred oyster]

I am also both rogue and holy priest lol. i seem to be attracted to the least popular classes

[cursive willow]

https://tenor.com/view/flageller-mégane-gif-19436618

[storm forum]

I swapped back to rogue the one season everyone is swapping off of rogue fr

[sacred oyster]

though i see alot of holy priest, i question is it really unpopular but someone linked some charts showing rogue and priest as least 2 popular

[storm forum]

I also think all the rogue and priest players are the same people

[sacred oyster]

i just like the classical style of healing and damage dealing. dont need that fancy shit of modern day classes. get off my lawn

[weary stump]

It's so you can bench and play osrs leagues, simple really

[storm forum]

like every rogue player i know has a geared priest and most priest players i know has a geared rogue

I'm grinding out my gacha games on the bench tbh

[weary stump]

Gaming

[split veldt]

so we bonus rolling a mythic gaze or going for M+ gear

or better yet we rip mythic gaze in vault tomorrow then go bonus roll a mythic box

[strange onyx]

If u don’t play rogue

U a bitch

[haughty flicker]

use your bonus roll on gaze and get the other trinket instead

[strange onyx]

Waddup

[haughty flicker]

[split veldt]

rogue since vanilla, im too stupid to play anything else

[weary stump]

Do I save my bonus rolls for when I get a mythic chimerus kill hopefully this week or just try for puzzle box

[radiant otter]

the people doing it after used vanish after opener to get 30 extra seconds of imp garrote, so their vanish is desyncd and either second deathmark is delayed or they have to vanish after the second one also

[royal lantern]

same boat

guildmates always thinking im some galaxybrain nerd

meanwhile my brain shuts off when im not playing assa

[split veldt]

[onyx veldt]

pugging mythic voidspire

how bad can this go?

[sacred oyster]

firs 3 i think will be easily doable. i can see getting 4 mythic kills in on pugs

[weary stump]

How does pugging imperator even go, do we just pray the tanks solve tic tac toe correctly

[sacred oyster]

well i guess i dont know their mythic mechanics

is it different in myth for tic tac toe? ive had no issues pugging hc first 3.

[weary stump]

Yeah it's a tiny bit more aids but I forget the actual difference

[onyx veldt]

i think i have 3 try in me

[sacred oyster]

i got my aotc on voidspire this weekend. i only have lura left to go now

[weary stump]

I need to pug it tonight too tbh if I can swing it, first week my group didn't bring me for any of the mythic bosses so I'm free

Tried mythic chimerus pugs over the weekend and that went terribly lol

[onyx veldt]

vora has new mecha on mythic or no?

oh yea it does

[weary stump]

The adds drop puddles after death is mythic only right

[onyx veldt]

yea

[weary stump]

Yeah, it's basically the same fight just don't stand in the goop

[sacred oyster]

i can see pugs fucking it up not running their ads to the back

and youd want to take any extras away from wall right

[weary stump]

Or too many on one side

Extras can stay so long as both walls have 3

[radiant otter]

theres only 1 extra

[onyx veldt]

yea had that issue on heroic

...

[sacred oyster]

also they appear to have fixed the vanish fixate, as i tried it over weekend and shit didnt work lol, was still on me

[weary stump]

I just hit evasion when I get fixated

And hope it all works out

[onyx veldt]

hmm

so they killed adds on one side only

and they choosed the wrong one

[weary stump]

That's a gamble one can take

There's a school of thought where you could gamble parse like that and go insane, probably

Just bring all 7 to one side twice and nuke; if healers can keep everyone up you could see funny numbers

Pray vorasius accepts said gamble

[willow grotto]

What's going on with the assassination rogue that's permanently rejected at +10?

[weary stump]

People fear you

Just go subtlety if you want easy +10 joins though tbh, plus it's like four buttons rotation wise

[willow grotto]

Maybe tag on sub and switch after, good tips

[weary stump]

Switching after gets you kicked usually lmao

[onyx veldt]

sub = no fun

sin = tons of fun

[weary stump]

Agreed but as someone who doesn't enjoy m+ much but likes raiding

I just burn my 8-10 keys a week on sub real quick

Makes it relatively brain dead

[sharp ruin]

isnt sin also braindead?

[willow grotto]

After a while, with 270 ilvl all specialisations can time a +10

[sharp ruin]

just outlaw requires bit more brain activitie

[weary stump]

Yeah it is but sub is even more so in keys

Sin you at least think about how many times to hit CT button

[sharp ruin]

any tips with that?

[willow grotto]

I get the impression that people only watch the god comps of guys who timed +20s and try to reproduce them.

[weary stump]

Look at pack size, divide by 2

[sharp ruin]

yall dont try to dot everything?

[weary stump]

That does dot everything

[sharp ruin]

i watch zero and that fucker never stop pressing ct

[weary stump]

Ct spreads to two targets

[sharp ruin]

isnt CT more dps than Fok?

[onyx veldt]

idk but it cost more energy

[weary stump]

Also more energy and at lower keys everything's gonna be dead after 1 spread

[sharp ruin]

have tried in dummys to send 1 ct and 1 fok and ct is way more dps

in big packs u never have issues with energy above 16 17 so pressing fok feels dumb tbh

[weary stump]

You gotta think about what gets you more envenoms but yes after you get to like 16+ I agree

Just ct if you have the energy

[willow grotto]

ct affected by mastery

[sharp ruin]

im missing so much crit right?

[willow grotto]

ct on really big pack, fok for other situation when bleed is already spread

[weary stump]

Personally though, I'll probably never touch anything more than a 12 simply because lazy and I don't enjoy dungeons that much

[sharp ruin]

got 633 crit rn

[weary stump]

I just spam 10s and call it a day

[analog field]

fok in really big packs is more dmg though

cause of talents

CT would be better in medium packs like 10 but you can't sustain it

[sharp ruin]

source?

[weary stump]

That one skill that improves fok

[analog field]

source whispyr pins

[sharp ruin]

good enough

tx

[analog field]

and sims

although sims with 20 targets sustain is not realistic and random

so press w/e button you want

but evidence point towards fok being better

[stark mortar]

do i play amplifying or instant poison in raid?

[dapper pier]

!ui

[prisma monolith]

Resources:

• ArcUI - Common UI Replacement
  BetterCDM - Enhancements to the Cooldown Manager
• MSUF - Common Unit Frame replacement
• Platynator - Recommended Nameplate Addon (Plater is not recommended)
  (Jundies Profile)
  (Whispyr's Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - Poison Reminder
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator and cursor replacement

[coral ibex]

always use the poisons you talent into

so yes use amp+deadly in raid as assa

[stark mortar]

got it, thanks

[bleak sedge]

Am i dumb or is blizzard dumb. WDYM trickster

[hard river]

blizzard big stinky

[bleak sedge]

so i guess the entire block is dumb and we dont have access to cloud cover?

[sacred oyster]

its just missing an outlaw header

[quasi ingot]

Yea just look at it as sub/outlaw getting the trickster stuff

[plain thistle]

That's their way of saying we are getting smoke bomb back

[bleak sedge]

Ah that makes sense

So sub back on top then 😄

[sacred oyster]

or maybe they should have put Rogue instead of Assassination since sub also gets ds

[plush isle]

Rogue Tuning is only done by AI, can't expect to use real humans for a class no one plays anymore, so AI forgot the Outlaw Header.

[flint marsh]

I timed a 13 without applying poisons therefore rogue actually must be the best

[quasi ingot]

Lmao you’re just a feral dolphin at that point

[flint marsh]

I did receive a 1 parse as well thank you

[quasi ingot]

Aslong as it’s timed 🤷🏻‍♂️

[flint marsh]

exactly the mage said it was the best aug rogue he ever played with

blasting

[gaunt spear]

we using black or light umbral plume?

[humble verge]

sim it

but bloodmallet says umbral over radiant

[onyx veldt]

dear God can i please drop the belt in pit

ty

[vital flicker]

chances are you are going to be bonus rolling in pit tomorrow anyways

[onyx veldt]

i have a champion belt rn

😐

[lime edge]

I have champion puzzlebox

[onyx veldt]

been farming pit and wr

no luck

[onyx veldt]

i dropped hero puzzle first run on both my rogues

[lime edge]

[onyx veldt]

i think thats where all my luck went

[lime edge]

Both huh

[onyx veldt]

[lime edge]

My current trinkets

[onyx veldt]

unlucky

[runic hinge]

hey just wondered how i can do as much as i can with the poison without losing as i do the envom into when i the rupture and kingsbane?

[charred oyster]

how do patchwerk sims account for Zoldyck and Blindside?

[hard river]

the health of the boss in sim scales downward proportional to time spent

so the boss "dies" at the end of the sim

[coral ibex]

you can also sim specifically execute patchwerk

[charred oyster]

perfect thx;)

[true tusk]

hey mates, what do you think about tomorrow’s rogue changes?

[normal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/i-mean-its-alright-gif-26963792

[lime edge]

Nothing

Sin isnt getting anything

[gray raven]

Ascendant Voidcores are just going to be a flat +10 boost for whatever you use them on?

[true tusk]

i don’t really get why they’re focusing so much on deathstalker and a couple of minor things like the new talent, when the spec has way bigger issues...

[remote grail]

which changes

[lime edge]

+9, and yea

[indigo mulch]

At least outlaw and sub getting some giga changes.

[lime edge]

Only usable on weps and trinkets

[true tusk]

yeah

[true tusk]

patch notes 12.0.5 april 21

[coral ibex]

how many do we get per week?

[indigo mulch]

But its so boring playing sub and i'm scared of the outlaw channel so i never go there.

[lime edge]

That i dont think we know

I hope there's no cap

And they just drop

[gray raven]

supposedly like cata charges

so just send on whatever

[true tusk]

it would be pretty easy to fix by just readjusting the duration per combo point and the damage, i’m not saying make bleeds as short as feral’s, but maybe something in between... that way each dot would actually hit harder

[royal lantern]

wdym there

you want shorter bleed timers?

[true tusk]

like 20 seconds in 7pt. and not 32 seconds like actually with same damage or a little bit more, for exemple: in my case now i do 71.169pt. damage in 32 seconds

if you put 20 seconds in 7pt. and scale like 85.000pt

[runic hinge]

whats the issues

[solid yew]

can anyone explain to me why people still use fan of knives when we have crimson tempest? im new to assa

[runic hinge]

its cheaper

[solid yew]

but it doesnt more dmg doesnt it?

[granite sentinel]

u use it to build not to do direct damage

[true tusk]

actually we don’t have great single-target compared to other melee specs, and our aoe almost never really pops off

[royal lantern]

your generators dont do dmg

[true tusk]

you only need to see fury or unholy

[royal lantern]

CT costs more energy then FoK

[gray raven]

it's being treated like a bleed and benefits from mastery so CT is doing way more damage than FOK

[royal lantern]

i really really doubt the "way more damage" part

cus then we would use it that way

[true tusk]

@royal lantern you know what i mean with this exemple?

[solid yew]

ct does more dmg than fok even without any poisons up. i understand it cost more but shouldnt it prio over fok everytime unless the mobs are about to die

[royal lantern]

why

your dmg is in the finishers

and running out of energy means you using less abilitys

and CT costs almost 2x as much energy as FoK

and FoK generates more CP trought Thrown Presicion on average

(and those crits also give some energy back cus of dashing scoundrel, which actually adds up a good chunk in bigger pulls tbh)

[pure blaze]

Hi everyone! 2 questions, firstly when do you fit puzzlebox into your opener? Secondly when you are waiting for envenom to fall off at 80 stacks what do you do at max CP?

[solid yew]

so only use CT to spread and fok so that u can use envenom to get caustic spatter?

[true tusk]

yeah, but at least it gives you some ‘breathing room’ by having much more sustained damage packed into a shorter window, which translates into a DPS gain without massively overtuning Envenom

[opaque basin]

hello does that mean assa can play normally with every group or chain pulling is still bad but less

[royal lantern]

(all of that is in the wowhead guide)

you use puzzlebox before you use Deathmark, and you try to get the apex talent when you would not overcap energy from triggering it

and ignore it during deathmark

[solid yew]

i was thinking CT was better overall just because internal bleeding as well

[royal lantern]

assa could ply normally with every group for like 15 years now

[true tusk]

and yeah, i also think CT’s energy cost should be slightly higher than FoK’s, but not by much, they should be pretty similar

[royal lantern]

huh

thats the point

you are NOT supposed to spam CT

so they make it expensive to use

[gray raven]

But you absolutely should be in big aoe

[solid yew]

thats what im sayin

[royal lantern]

......no you dont...?

[true tusk]

it’s not about spam, it’s because it completely drains your energy in big pulls

[iron thorn]

CT is for bleeds

[solid yew]

ct is bugged

[iron thorn]

if all target have bleed

you fok

[royal lantern]

yes i know

it still doesnt change our gameplay

[opaque basin]

not really but you get what i mean

[solar wyvern]

Tyran rn

[sacred oyster]

??? wtf are you on about not having good ST dmg

[opaque basin]

i don't wanna get mad over my pug tank chain pulling for 30 mins if thats still an issue for assa

[iron thorn]

ofc i have internet problems right when raid starts

played poe for 2 hours before

nothing happened

[solid yew]

@royal lantern is this how we deal with aoe packs?

[true tusk]

you see unholy or fury?

and his aoe a part of st?

[solar wyvern]

You see [spec which is not played in keys] and [spec which is shrimply overpowered]

[sacred oyster]

saying another class can beat us in ST is different than saying we dont have great ST

[solar wyvern]

Id say assa st is above par in keys and in raid

[true tusk]

it's not great when we are one of the worst specs on m+

[royal lantern]

yes

[solar wyvern]

?

[violet violet]

Just a casual sin qqer nothing to see here

[spare maple]

!macro

[prisma monolith]

Assassination uses no other macros aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial

#showtooltip Deathmark
/cast Deathmark
/use Light's Potential
```You **cannot** macro puzzle box or kingsbane to deathmark, as they are both on the GCD

[fallow canopy]

worst?

[plain thistle]

we are not even close to the worst class for M+

[royal lantern]

it never had any real impact beyond "feels kinda bad" in the past allready, number wise it was never a big deal at all

and rn its near 0

[violet violet]

Bro's on crack, he had a rough day, ignore him

[royal lantern]

augvoker exists

cus augs are cursed with aug brain

[true tusk]

if you go to +20 no, but in +12-+13 like mortals, yes

[royal lantern]

even in that range assa is doing fine

[sacred oyster]

im prob #1 DPS in 60%~ of keys ive ran.

[royal lantern]

yeha sure if the group has a FotM DH and MM Hunter in a +10 you will do lower dmg

[violet violet]

Bro im a noob at assa and I deal more dmg in keys as assa than as sub. Resi 16

[royal lantern]

but then also like

its a +10, who gives a fuck

[violet violet]

So qqing about assa is low T, tbh

[opaque basin]

ok ty

[solar wyvern]

Grrr i hate being bottom dps in st

Grrrrrr

My spec is BAD

[true tusk]

yeah like me, but that's not a reason for say its a great moment for the spec

[fallow canopy]

I don't get it then, what's the complaint

[true tusk]

you see the buff on outlaw? meanwhile we are being ignored?

that's no make sense

[royal lantern]

i would not go too crazy over that outlaw thing

[solar wyvern]

Yeah outlaw will be turbo but i imagine it will be slightly nerfed or fixed in its interactions

[true tusk]

and doing useless changes on deathstalker when it's not working well

and are bugged

[sacred oyster]

theyve given us multiple buffs lately, what do you mean?

[royal lantern]

i honestly think that they will adjust that talent down a bit and then give outlaw a bit of a general buff

cus trickster being like 13% over fb is a bit crazy

[solar wyvern]

150% crit dam is 100000% not intended

[lime edge]

Barely

The assa buff was like 1%

Outlaw is like 15%

[solar wyvern]

3% aoe and a 4% buff before that isnt barely

[lime edge]

4% buff before huh

[true tusk]

that's the point!

[solar wyvern]

Outlaw change isnt sticking around

Just like devour

[royal iron]

!tott

[prisma monolith]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[fallow canopy]

it'd be pretty funny if it makes it to live tomorrow "fixed"

[sacred oyster]

would i prefer us to match 'meta' classes when at equal ilvl? absolutely. but at least we're not deadweight atm.

[true tusk]

so we just sit here watching world of devourer, which was already broken, get even more buffs, it feels like it’s their expansion at this point, meanwhile other meta specs keep getting stronger, and we’re just happy as long as we’re not at the very bottom of the barrel, right

[fallow canopy]

I mean its not that serious

[runic hinge]

using zimbita St is cheating

[fallow canopy]

[solar wyvern]

Dont bash my goat

[vast shuttle]

30 runs or more now for puzzle box seen it twice iam killinh myself now wtf is this drop

[lime edge]

Its pretty lame

[coral ibex]

its ok bro all bosses overall damage charts can't hurt you

[runic hinge]

he is very funny

[coral ibex]

pay no attention to the fact that 75% boss dam parse for assa is literally a 99 boss damage devo parse

[true tusk]

it would be nice, for a change, not to be seen as a ‘trash class’ that only gets picked when there’s no devourer, unholy, fury, ele, aug, frost mage or demo in the queue

[sacred oyster]

solution: play rogue, top charts, help more people see rogue is not horrible

[true tusk]

yeah, i know

[true tusk]

im playing him since vanilla

xd

[royal lantern]

my solution: Play rogue, do no dmg, say "yeha ofc, rogue sucks, what did you expect"

[runic hinge]

I have no brain thats why i play rogue

[royal lantern]

[ornate tundra]

play for 2 weeks, rogue is still trash class, come back next expansion

last 5 expansions now bub

[waxen oyster]

people who play wow for 2 weeks then quit for the expansion

just say you’re an addict

if you do it repeatedly

[onyx veldt]

maybe we go war then

has bigger dagger

= bigger damage

[royal lantern]

im not a addict, i could stop whenever i want

[weary stump]

I like your funny words shadow man

[subtle tundra]

same

[onyx veldt]

https://x.com/grimoire43/status/2046085204721201436/video/1?s=46

@﹏@ (@grimoire43)

when the raid so ass u gotta cry for help

▶ Play video

X · Apr 20, 2026, 4:35 AM

yh idk about this raid thingy

[royal lantern]

there is just something with feral players, ngl

(but i agree)

[mild robin]

Heyo, im new to Rogue. Is there any video/written stuff on rotation/pooling as Assa?

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps#advanced-tips

[wide ferry]

we goin DS or FB for 12.0.5? I been out the game a minute

[balmy condor]

fb

[true tusk]

yo mate after the tips the other day i stopped doing the terrorist things, now the logs are more decent xd

[balmy condor]

huge

[brave gyro]

I opened channel, first thing i see is this messege and my mind says "facebook" 😭

im going to bed

nn

[true tusk]

I'm open to the idea of ​​sending you the last log and having you crush my spirits again, hahaha

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/log-cabin-log-logged-get-logged-lolol-gif-20978297

[trim cairn]

Ok so hear me out

Would Cloak of Shadows having a 1m cd in pve fix Rogue desirability?

[coral ibex]

no, we'd just be slightly tankier

and that isn't really the reason why rogue is unfavorable to the wider population

reminder we spent all of 12.0 with literally no aoe cc of any kind

[trim cairn]

Not to the wider population perhaps but in raids for immunity soaks or in high keys it would help massively

[coral ibex]

i disagree that a shorter cloak cd would "help massively" in high keys

doesn't do anything to handle cc for large pulls

[trim cairn]

Fair enough, just jealous of DK AMS in that regard

[coral ibex]

like yea you can immune potentially 2x as many things but then there's aug with more aoe cc than i have fingers on both hands

[ornate tundra]

I'm an addict 🙁

[coral ibex]

you dont need to immune anything when mobs are functionally hard cc'd for 20+ seconds each pull

thats how i see it at least

[trim cairn]

I mean I'm struggling to tank beams on Skyreach 18 even with feint DR specced

[coral ibex]

in AA you can pull all 3 book packs before the 3rd boss

and with enough CC it doesn't matter

more cloak uptime doesn't affect that at all

[trim cairn]

Halving cloak cd would allow better cycling with healthstone evasion and health pot

Might just be a healer issue though idk

[coral ibex]

i dont disagree with that

[trim cairn]

Meanwhile I see DK's stand in that shit for days

They basically have cloak on a 45s cd

I mean I'd love an offensive raid/party buff for Rogues but given the fact that we have had several and they have all been pruned I doubt we would ever get one back

[brave gyro]

-# - Funnel removed, other specs/classes get way better ones
-# - Raid buff removed
-# - Cheat Death nerfed - other classes way better ones
-# - Cloak nerfed - other classes get way better ones
-# - Shroud nerfed (invis detection/dungeon design) - other classes get way better ones
-# - Evasion pretty much useless nowadays unless group fails
-# - Feint Nerfed (still good and only thing keeping us in the game atm)
-# - Smoke bomb - other classes get better ones

this was from sub channel, but still applies

[rigid cedar]

I'm new to the whole Cooldown Manager thing, and I'm trying to track the stacking buff from Implacable for the energy generation, but when I put it in CDM, it's only coming up with the buff when I drop the Envenom buff, am I missing something? Or is it just jank

[spice surge]

!implac

[prisma monolith]

Implacable is bugged in Blizzard's Cooldown Manager, there is no way to "fix" it.

Until blizzard fixes it, you just have to either count your envenoms or glance at your buff bar if you're trying to be optimal. Ignoring it when it bugs is <1% loss.

[rigid cedar]

😭

I miss weakauras..

[lime edge]

7 target opener on Sim

[balmy condor]

okay

[analog field]

seems normal no?

[balmy condor]

yeah

I don't see the issue here

[lime edge]

Just realizing that extending garrote is not worth i guess?

Not really having an issue lool

[balmy condor]

it does extend

[severe meadow]

That is extended

[balmy condor]

two garrotes

[severe meadow]

You’re using double garrote on the same target

[lime edge]

I meant the 6 seconds

[severe meadow]

Yes

[lime edge]

Not the double garrote

[severe meadow]

I’m not sure what you mean

[lime edge]

I mean using the 2nd garrote at the end of the window

[balmy condor]

yes, that is the double garrote

it just does so earlier

because you're spreading

[lime edge]

Its doing both insta

[balmy condor]

yes

[severe meadow]

That adds the 6 seconds

That’s extending it

[lime edge]

Yea i dont think u get what I mean lool

Whisp does

[severe meadow]

The second garrote at the end of the window for an extra extend or a third garrote

[lime edge]

You gain another like 5 seconds if u do the 2nd one at the end

Instead of back to back

[severe meadow]

Right but realistically shit usually is exploded by then

[lime edge]

But in aoe not worth i guess

[severe meadow]

Unless you want to justify spending a GCD while everything is grouped instead of sending double garrote while it’s gathered

[storm forum]

You could delay 2nd gar 1-2 globals I guess, after fan or rupture depending on ur fan CP

[severe meadow]

I’d rather FoK / CT while it’s all grouped, not send another garrote

[lime edge]

And I guess u send a few cts before using ur cds

Not enough to cover every mob tho

But 5/7 mobs

[half apex]

Hello clan, can i hav a log analyse? idk what can i do better https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bkmDxCYFWBQTJtaL?fight=6&type=damage-done

[severe meadow]

Yeah a few CTs is fine, helps get your bleeds out while it’s being gathered

[royal lantern]

hey thats not true, stop spreading missinformation

ams is better then cloak

it works on more things

and gives dmg resources

[lime edge]

I wonder if the sim is sending cts regardless if ur overcapping combo points or not

In big aoe

In 10 target it did 1 ct

I guess u just ct until u get to envenom and then pop cds

[severe meadow]

Prob getting max scent stacks

And then going into cds

[lime edge]

Looks to me like its using ct as its builder after rupturing

And just sending everything after first envenom

[humble verge]

[upper spear]

is pooling worse this season than before? does it get better with gear? my alt is like 240 right now and even when i get to my 80% stack and pool i feel like it only gets me to like 50% energy

[balmy condor]

correct

[balmy condor]

also correct

[runic hinge]

Wish someone would garrote me irl

Wait wrong line

[lime edge]

It also looks like its overwriting improved garrote a few seconds early so you can start spreading quicker?

Because otherwise all the garrotes would fall off?

[balmy condor]

nop

just pandemic checks like normal

[lime edge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o5CcKVAMBWFT72RPfZFGEU

[coral ibex]

patchwerk (10)

[balmy condor]

patchwerk (10)

[lime edge]

How else do u do 10 target

Thats how ive always done it

[twilit lagoon]

The play is to let the improved garrote fall off before we reapply, right?

[coral ibex]

ive never simmed anything except patchwerk 1 and dungeonslice

[lime edge]

Well im simming to see what buttons it presses

Not for gear

[coral ibex]

to my understanding multiple patchwerk target apl is not as thoroughly tc'd as either patchwerk 1 or dslice

[upper spear]

fi theres anything ive learned this season, nothing for buttons is accurate outside of ST

[coral ibex]

so idk if thats correct to do

[upper spear]

atleast ofr hunter and DK

[coral ibex]

also sims are not supposed to be rotational guides

unless thats changed somewhat recently

[runic hinge]

Someone do a log and see if crippling still affects lethal dose and then ping me

[lime edge]

I mean the sim is supposed to do what's correct no?

Obviously u cant copy it 1 to 1

But yea

[sacred oyster]

uh why wouldnt it, if its not doing the rotation recommended to use, then its not simming correctly lol

[fallow canopy]

[balmy condor]

uh oh

here we go

[runic hinge]

[lime edge]

Isnt it just not critting there or something

[balmy condor]

(I genuinely don't have time to explain that)

[coral ibex]

the theorycrafters say so

and i trust their expertise on that

[lime edge]

Yea thats what I mean

So its just not critting in that one

[runic hinge]

Blud

You don’t see the random pot

[balmy condor]

it's not random

[runic hinge]

Open with ambush

[fallow canopy]

People stealing my I can't read bit smh

[runic hinge]

Okay sorry my b

[lime edge]

I dont think that makes a difference?

[balmy condor]

that what makes a difference

[balmy condor]

it does not

[lime edge]

I mean opening with ambush or not

[vital flicker]

It's a conspiracy by the theorycrafters to keep all of the sim followers down. Wake up sheeple

[runic hinge]

I can’t believe they would fix that

[balmy condor]

in general this sucks btw

[runic hinge]

Unreal

[balmy condor]

yes, it opens with ambush because I said it should

[fallow canopy]

We need a bigger yellow disclaimer

[coral ibex]

i knew it, whispyr is literally sandbagging the guides

[runic hinge]

Thank god I’m not playing this spec ever again. No crippling dose. It’s joever

[lime edge]

Why tho

[rapid patio]

how can i make the same sim? with dungeonslice? sorry im new to raidbots. im asking because i sim my char and got 72.291 DPS

[coral ibex]

you're gonna make him crack another M

[fallow canopy]

Maxroll is where the true optimal rotation is

[red schooner]

knew i should have invested in monster before this conversation started

[lime edge]

Its patchwerk not dungeon slice

[vital flicker]

What situation is 10 bosses for 5 minutes supposed to mirror?

[runic hinge]

I’m invested in the Whispyr wall of text

[lime edge]

Nothing

[runic hinge]

But I’m going to bed after that

[red schooner]

Its like a bedtime story

[runic hinge]

I’m excited

[lime edge]

Patchwerk default doesnt mirror anything either

Bosses aren't 5 mins

[nova summit]

Hey all, new rogue to high key here. Quick question about Feint (with Elusiveness talents): does it actually reduce all incoming damage, or only certain types ?
I was looking at logs (Zerocool on Skyreach) and checked Feint usage during the laser on the 2nd and last boss, and it didn’t seem like the damage was reduced. Am I misunderstanding how Feint works, or is there something specific about those mechanics?

[fallow canopy]

If only there was an option that had packs and a boss fight that albeit not perfect its sort of a jack of all trades sim

[spice surge]

Elusiveness only does anything when feint does not work. So its never 40% and 20%, its either or. It all depends on wether blizzard has coded the ability as AoE or not

[twilit lagoon]

I didn't realize until recently that the ST opener has envenom before hitting CDs, and after looking at my logs I can definitely understand why... But why does that not apply to the AoE opener as well?

[lime edge]

I mean u cant even look at dslice buttons?

[coral ibex]

start cds earlier so you dont lose uptime to prio mob dying

[lime edge]

Don't think it tells u what's going on

[twilit lagoon]

I wondered about that, but I never seem to get good uptime on a prior target before they're killed off anyways... >.> But that makes sense, thanks!

[coral ibex]

damn he's still typing

you're getting a full explanation about sim ability usage

[nova summit]

But It does work on Skyreach 2nd boss lasers dot damage then ? With a 20% damage reduce of course

[twilit lagoon]

I just always assume my damage is that awesome, and that's why the prio target disappeared before I could get full use of DM+KB.

[spice surge]

Yes the 20% from elusiveness always works

[red schooner]

My greatest fear, typing something dumb in here and then seeing, 'Whispyr is typing...' at the bottom for 5 minutes.

[night delta]

I was browsing dungeon loot for my voidforge next week

damn, Saron got all that crit/haste

[twilit lagoon]

But that's the best way to learn!

[vital flicker]

I think that is better than asking a dumb question and then being made fun of for asking a dumb question

[spice surge]

Tbf sometimes those have a big overlap

[trim cairn]

Could be worse

You could be in his suicide note

[vital flicker]

If only bullying didn't work

[twilit lagoon]

This is probably a stupid question, but what exactly puts someone on the mobs aggro / threat table? Is there really any mechanic to it? I know I frequently get hit by spells that knock me out of stealth before I've made it to the pack, and I always wonder if I've done something wrong/stupid.

[trim cairn]

Which sometimes doesn't make intuitive sense

Thank god for the spreadsheet

[runic hinge]

Just seems like a midnight thing

[twilit lagoon]

Priory says it was more than a midnight thing...

[fallow canopy]

Its a blizzard thing dw

[twilit lagoon]

That dungeon sucked ass.

[foggy moat]

anyone got the filter expression for WCL to check all defensives used (all classes)?

[coral ibex]

all mobs have some amount of stealth detection and mobs that are currently in combat have greater stealth detection than out of combat

[vital flicker]

Still typing

[coral ibex]

this is why people get caught in shroud

they walk literally right over mobs

and then wonder what happened

[twilit lagoon]

But it feels like it's not just an adjacent thing.

[runic hinge]

I’m still awake and said I’d be asleep by 5

[twilit lagoon]

Like, spellcasters be spellcastin' from many meters away

And I get blasted

[fallow canopy]

Once the group enters combat if you are close, even in stealth, you are now a possible target for extermination

[coral ibex]

i suspect there's a hidden "potential targets" list that mobs can see and if one mob is in combat with you, others near it can "see" you on the list

even though you're in stealth

[lime edge]

Im gonna get cooked

[twilit lagoon]

That's kinda what I was wondering. I know in other MMOs they'd have zone-wide threat tables to reference.

[balmy condor]

I genuinely do not have time for this, I'm under a time crunch (literally needs to be done by end of hour) so I'm gonna dump this and leave, but the tldr is:

1. Sims are not perfect, they evolve and grow constantly
2. You shouldn't use sims to teach yourself how to play buttons, it's a stupid robot that needs to be given a very specific instruction set, you are not a stupid robot, you're a stupid human
3. Guides/Theorycrafters exist to translate between sims and humans so you don't have to do this exact thing you're doing
4. Some situations are simply not optimized. I'm not sitting here wasting my time optimizing 7 target 3 min patchwerk just because some clown might sim it in the future at some point to delusionally try and optimize themselves. Sometimes it's also not worth optimizing +0.5% in some niche patchwerk situation if that same logic is -1% in dslice
5. Most people simming themselves have no concept of what a sim actually does, what the sim is emulating, how a sim actually "pushes buttons". or how statistics work and why variances and fight styles exist in the form that they do. Simulations are not some perfect ideal of this is how you always play 24/7, they're cleaned and synthetic testing grounds that we use to inform ourselves, they're not here to go "well actually you were in 9 target not 8 so you should've pressed a garrote there", cause that's not helpful to anyone.
6. Raidbots top gear and droptimizer and shit exist to give you the answers you're looking for without having to understand the ugly shit going on behind the curtain. If you don't know how it works, that's fine, but don't try using it for things that they're not supposed to be used for just cause you think you're smarter
7. Most "optimizations" are either <0.3% and cannot be observed by humans doing pulls in the first place, and you trying to reverse engineer it or go "but when I do", is pointless. Hitting a dummy or a boss 300 times most of the time is not enough data for a lot of this shit, even if you end up meticulously sitting there cataloging it. Just due to variance and human fuck-ups it's not possible. That is how we test bugs, not rotations. Sims run tens of thousands of fights to get the accuracy they do.
8. A lot of optimizations simply don't get put into sims because no one is going to sit there and keep track of 4+ conditionals in case there's an optimization to sometimes cast a button maybe once ever 3 pulls for +0.1% on average. People think they are much better at playing the game than what they actually are. "Sub is so boring and simple", and you open a log from the so called best players in the world and they're fucking up some apex conditional.

In summary, please stop trying to teach yourself to play the game from a quick sim it makes my eyes burn

[twilit lagoon]

You shouldn't use sims to teach yourself how to play buttons, it's a stupid robot that needs to be given a very specific instruction set, you are not a stupid robot, you're a human
Wisest words, truthfully.

[rough dust]

beep boop

[stuck lodge]

So basically use logs and parses to learn what buttons to press is the best way? (someone other than whispyr answer he busy

[runic hinge]

Just read the guide and probably look at cd usage and when from like lorrgs

[vital flicker]

So what I am hearing is don't use sims, learn from the rogue APL for optimal gameplay?

[fallow canopy]

Vibecraft and go from there is my take

[lime edge]

Yea but logs are basically only raid right

[fallow canopy]

[lime edge]

To look at buttons

For m+ it would have to be a yt video or something

[onyx veldt]

or press butons

and pray

[coral ibex]

pin this please lol

[vital flicker]

But if it gets pinned how can I ask the same question next week

[runic hinge]

I’m gonna ask in 6 hours

[quaint dragon]

is warcraftlogs down i cant see logs of any boss?

[gleaming parcel]

Do i want to use my vanish to garrote inside of deathmark or right before it?

[lime onyx]

Ideally you vanish and garrote before popping your puzzle deathmark kingsbane

[onyx veldt]

i think you lose damage if you do it inside

[coral ibex]

they have already applied the new partition

you have to select 12.0 patch

(even though the patch is tomorrow)

[quaint dragon]

oh ye i see thx

[quiet star]

is there any other way than Cloak to remove roots(and everything that works like that debuff)?

[spice surge]

Vanish

[iron chasm]

Sorry, new to the spec and I haven’t found it anywhere but can you cancelaura implacable to trigger the energy gen faster?

[spice surge]

I mean you could, but why would you

I thin kyou can atleast, but why

[stuck lodge]

I guess it would save you like 5 seconds of waiting sometimes?

[iron chasm]

Would that not be beneficial to regen energy in that time instead of just waiting?

Or maybe I am not used to downtime yet 😄

[analog field]

envenom buff is giving you damage etc you don't really want to do that

[quiet star]

currently in m+ scenario there a lot of root-like effects, but looks like rogue can't do anything without long CD

[stuck lodge]

This comment was about cancelling implacable

[quiet star]

oh i see

[iron chasm]

Ah wait am i reading implacable wrong? So when the envenom buff drops, the energy regen starts, not when the implacable buff drops ? Might’ve been understanding it wrong

[stuck lodge]

Well the envenom buff dropping is what triggers it, but there might be reasons you want the envenom buff active

[lime edge]

Tbf cant u cancelaura envenom and then envenom right away

[spice surge]

Yes but you'd lose all the benefits of envenom

[stuck lodge]

though tbh I'm not seeing like a ton if you are going to be dropping it anyway. You would miss out on basically just dashing scoundrel?

[lime edge]

Not if u envenom right away no?

[stuck lodge]

Like you are missing out on say like 4-5 seconds of the bonus application poison chance and dashing scoundrel

and I think that is it? Especially if you are dropping it to get the buff anyway, most of the benefit comes from chaining which wouldn't apply in this scenario

so yeah idk, need someone smarter to elaborate on the downsides

[lime edge]

Yea but when u let it drop off for buff u lose it all the same no

[stuck lodge]

Rapid injection and inspiring strike don't matter for the scenario I am talking about

[gray raven]

the amount of patience you have with us is honestly next level

[lime edge]

Until u re envenom

[quiet star]

it really looks like if you out of energy it make sense to force activate 80% implacable

[stuck lodge]

You get to 80, you either wait to drop, or you cancel it manually

either way no rapid or inspiring

[quiet star]

at least from what I see in play

[coral ibex]

i think the forced pooling that allowing the buff to expire causes is a dps gain

[iron chasm]

Yea but in a situation with low energy, 80 stacks implacable, you could theoretically get to 5 cp, cancelaura envenom and envenom instead of waiting 5 sec to drop?

[coral ibex]

also you can refresh bleeds in that time

which would not cause you to drop envenom while doing so

[quiet star]

yes, because with no energy you literally press two-three buttons in 5 seconds

[stuck lodge]

I think I am mostly imagining a scenario in which you are wanting to drop envenom anyway

[coral ibex]

why would you want to drop envenom other than to proc implacable

[stuck lodge]

and it might be worth it to cancel it at that point? but yeah idk

I am talking about wanting to drop it to proc impac

but not waiting the 5 seconds or whatever, just manually doing it

[coral ibex]

yea but there are rotational upkeep things you can do while waiting for the buff to expire that would otherwise result in lost envenom uptime

[stuck lodge]

That is probably true most of the time. If your bleeds are in a good spot, I do wonder if there is any benefit to it though

[iron chasm]

So if I understand correctly, you mean that basically the point of the waiting time is to refresh bleeds? Or am I missing something

And not using this waiting time for refreshing the bleeds will result in loss of envenom uptime later down the road?

[coral ibex]

no i am saying you need to refresh bleeds and that is something that can be done in the forced downtime of letting implacable expire

assuming the bleeds are in pandemic

[stuck lodge]

Yeah, I'm just wondering if there is a situation where bleeds are already set up fine and you want to drop, is cancelling it manually actually good?

[coral ibex]

so while you wait for implacable to expire you refresh rupture, press garrote, and rebuild 5cp to envenom as soon as the apex procs

[stuck lodge]

It's a pretty fringe scenario for sure

[coral ibex]

the only reason i can think of is because you think you would need the bonus regen for some time-constricted damage phase but dont want to stop hitting beforehand bc you'd cap energy

and idk if that scenario exists

bc the apex is only useful in that it gives you more energy you can translate into combo points and damage

[iron chasm]

That makes sense, thanks a lot. I was probably overthinking it a bit

[stuck lodge]

Idk usually like once or twice a raid I find myself with bleeds basically fully refreshed and implac capped

and so I just build to 5 and wait

[coral ibex]

yea but if its not a scenario where you can actualize the bonus energy regen into more damage

then whats the point

[fallow canopy]

you just need to gauge whether you need the energy or not, if you don't you keep sending until the former is true

[sharp trail]

hey sorry for dropping just in, but I've been looking at talents and was wondering why in raid people use improved ambush instead of tight spender?
Doesn't really make sense for me since you want to use garrote out of stealth

[fallow canopy]

or maybe to word it better if you wouldn't overcap by doing it

[coral ibex]

if you have so much energy that you'd overcap by waiting to drop the buff, then you should just keep slamming buttons

[stuck lodge]

blindside gives ambushes

turns mut into it

[coral ibex]

also when the tc's say it isn't a gain i assume its because they modeled it or simmed it to test

they aren't perfect but they are more knowledgeable about how to model the spec than me

i'm just parroting my understanding of the theorycrafting

[stuck lodge]

works for me, i don't wanna bind a button to it anyway

[lime edge]

What if u are low energy tho

And ur bleeds are fine

[coral ibex]

wait

[stuck lodge]

Then letting the energy pool naturally and then getting the buff is good

[lime edge]

Wouldnt it be a gain to get the buff right away

[analog field]

I mean why not wait for it to drop if you are low

No you prefer to pool some more probably

[lime edge]

To get ur energy faster and start stacking the next one

[coral ibex]

you just have to overcome the assumption that if you aren't pressing buttons you're losing damage, i think that is clouding your assessment here

[lime edge]

Its not about that

[stuck lodge]

I think the argument is that getting the increased energy regen immediately

is good

[analog field]

If you are let's say at 60 energy and buff drops it is not necessarily good for you

[stuck lodge]

whether or not its better is ehhh

[coral ibex]

right but you will still be waiting for the regen

[stuck lodge]

apparently not

[coral ibex]

to give you enough energy to press buttons again

[analog field]

You would like to drop it 3 sec later for example

[stuck lodge]

I mean it techically lets you start the envenom chaining again faster, but idk if its sustainable

[lime edge]

Yea but what if ur low energy but have enough to envenom

[coral ibex]

you build to 5cp, you have lets say 50 energy, you cancelaura to get the bonus energy and press envenom

guess what

you still are waiting for regen to mut again

you wait either way

[fallow canopy]

feel like people are drowning on a glass of water here

[coral ibex]

and in this scenario you are forcing yourself to wait in a worse context

[analog field]

to sustain a full chain of envenoms you kinda need your whole energy bar

[coral ibex]

because you are at the mercy of deal fate procs

[analog field]

Yeah I agree on that

[coral ibex]

what happens if you have bad crit luck and then your envenom expires despite your bonus regen

GG

[analog field]

seems like when I am low I need 4 sec of pooling and then the buff to sustain me

[coral ibex]

you forced the apex early for nothing

[lime edge]

So what about cleave

[stuck lodge]

heavy enough aoe cleave and you are ignoring impac already

[lime edge]

Like 3 target

Yea but what if its not heavy enough

Its only some aoe

[coral ibex]

i think what you're missing here

is you are intentionally reducing your total envenom buff timer

which necessarily makes it more difficult to keep them strung together

and keep uptime

there's no reason to do so

[quiet star]

the fun thing that canceling envenom wouldn't trigger impacable proc to proceed

[wanton tangle]

can i ask all you other ass bros where your haste is sitting at? is 17% low?

[coral ibex]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stats
You will always get more accurate results using Raidbots Top Gear, as stat values will flucuate depending on gear and situation.

Agility (Item level) > Crit > Haste > Mastery >>>> Vers
The ratio between secondaries ends up being roughly 40/33/26/1

[lime edge]

I have 20% pretty sure

[wanton tangle]

ty nooj

[coral ibex]

i have 13.6% in my assa gear

sim says its best for me

[lime edge]

13

[rose canopy]

hi guys sorry if this is stupid question but do you even bother having slice and dice on bars? what do we automatically get it from?

[coral ibex]

i dont think about my stats i just run top gear sim and equip the top result

[stuck lodge]

passive in the ass spec

[coral ibex]

automatically applied by envenom

[stuck lodge]

cut to the chase I think its call

[rose canopy]

sweet so i can remove it from bars completely?

[coral ibex]

yes

[rose canopy]

tysm

[quiet star]

why we take this and not Fatal concotion? Or is it because of envenom + melee attacks?

[stuck lodge]

sims better, more dmg

[coral ibex]

i think secondary sims better in certain target counts vs fatal

more targets = fatal is better

[rose canopy]

a video i watched said apply 4 poisons ? I only see 3

[coral ibex]

deadly amplifying crippling atrophic

[stuck lodge]

Deadly, the other green one, atropic, crippling

[quiet star]

but what actually triggers secondary? envenom and auto attacks?

[stuck lodge]

damn I'm slow at typing

[stuck lodge]

mut

[iron chasm]

What’s the play regarding crippling though? Heard some people complain regarding grouping in pugs?

[rose canopy]

ah got it ty @stuck lodge

[stuck lodge]

garrote with tier

the play is to use it

and annoy the tanks

[lime edge]

Dont use crippling

[coral ibex]

im not talking about crippling again bro someone's gonna go ping their favorite streamer and get weird again

[lime edge]

Unless u actually want to slow stuff

[quiet star]

why I mut in m+ when I have group of mobs?

[lime edge]

Sometimes slow is useful

[stuck lodge]

incorrect, it gives more dmg with the M+ talents

unless that has changed

[lime edge]

It doesnt anymore I think whisp said

[stuck lodge]

Welp

[digital folio]

I just learned that crimson tempest refreshes internal bleeding, do we even bother using fan of knives now ?

[stuck lodge]

then I should stop applying it in M+ lol

[lime edge]

Even if it did work I dont think its worth

I stopped using crippling a while ago on m+

It slows the grouping down so much

[analog field]

if it did dmg for sure you have to use it

but now yeah seems okayish to not use

[stuck lodge]

I think lethal dose used to not care about the poisons being deadly or dealing damage?

[lime edge]

#assassination message

[lime edge]

Its like 1.8% dmg

But u delay grouping by many seconds

Hell nah

[stuck lodge]

I mean shouldn't it be 0 dmg now that it doesn't work with lethal dose

[lime edge]

Yea its 0

[stuck lodge]

idk why you would get 1.8% from it

[lime edge]

When it did work

Is what i mean

[stuck lodge]

ah, gotcha

well I'll have to break that habit now

[proper rain]

am i delusional or do crimson tempest sometimes NOT spread both dots?

[balmy condor]

it's some bug we don't really know why or how

you just hit CT again

[proper rain]

ok so I am not delusional

[balmy condor]

not really too big of an issue but it's weird

[coral ibex]

man i knew i wasn't crazy seeing mobs with only 1 bleed in a pack after ct spam

i thought maybe i had just mouseover'd on a mob to start the pull

[proper rain]

also, since the removal of WA is there any addon or way to know how many targets out of all possible targets that have bleeds except for literally looking at each nameplate?

[coral ibex]

track scent of blood in cdm

[proper rain]

I remember I had some counter in TWW for something with WA that showed 11/23 (11 mobs out of 23 has a debuff etc)

[coral ibex]

there is no way to do that anymore

[proper rain]

do we stop crimson tempest when we're at max stacks, no? We keep spreading regardless of the amount of mobs, right?

[coral ibex]

i just press CT unless i dont have the energy for it

idk if thats correct

[split laurel]

keep going until everything is bleeding

[fickle girder]

your eyes including

[proper rain]

[split laurel]

perfection

[balmy condor]

you CT until you have everything on everything and then you swap to fok technically

[fickle girder]

you bleed em, then you fok em

[balmy condor]

that's what I'm saying

[proper rain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwdJKEfZ2JA

then we eat it?

[fickle girder]

[quiet star]

why this talent even needed? it looks like useless literally

[balmy condor]

take the other one, it's also pretty useless

useless vs useless

[proper rain]

[quiet star]

[clever gust]

Play the other one so you never press feint and blame it on your Rng talent if you die

[quiet star]

finally good blizzard balance

[balmy condor]

like you either get piss shit healing

or you get rng reduction fiesta

and it might reduce something that matters

but it also might not

but it could

[fickle girder]

odds are, it won't

[balmy condor]

maybe

[storm forum]

piss healing shows up on the meters

[fickle girder]

do you feel lucky?

[storm forum]

so we take it

[balmy condor]

anyway, if I scroll back up to my wall of text will I see horrors

I'm scared

[fickle girder]

maybe

[balmy condor]

there's a chance

based on my crit

[coral ibex]

depends

[fickle girder]

30% chance to absorb 10% of the wall of text damage

[coral ibex]

how horrified are you of discussing cancelaura the apex

[solar wyvern]

Does cancel aura apex even work

Assumed it did not

[quiet star]

For me no

U can cancel envenom buff, but it won't help to trigger regeneration

[balmy condor]

-# ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

the issue with doing this is you're just gonna end up copying someone who probably also sucks and you don't actually know why they're pressing the buttons, you're just staring at it and then making your own inferences. Sims do still teach us how to play, but there's context right. The same way that looking at an APL line with 15 different conditions and weird hard-coded numbers isn't useful to learn, neither is blindly following some sequence or possibly-mistaken person. That's why there's guides and me and eleem and pins and all that. We are the translators for the sim so you know what buttons to push, because the math says it's good to do X or Y. Hell, odds are the people you're copying from also learn from those guides and pins and stuff

[solar wyvern]

If it did youd just cancelaura at 80 to speed up the regen process

[balmy condor]

like this, doesn't really help, you just see buttons and go "yep, buttons", but you're not internalizing any of the rreason why. The sims tell us the reason why, but someone's gotta be there to pull that out and make it usable

[balmy condor]

I just got to that part

I don't get why people keep thinking it's better?

[lime onyx]

you can't just cancel the implacable buff. gotta cancel the whole envenom

[balmy condor]

if you're proccing the apex, you're doing so because you need energy

so cancelaura on envenom would trigger it sooner

[quiet star]

It wouldn't work anyway

[balmy condor]

but why would you care to trigger it sooner

why wouldn't it work?

you can cancelaura envenom

[quiet star]

It wouldn't from what i see

[lime onyx]

testing it rn

[quiet star]

Implacable still have time from removed envenom

[balmy condor]

wha?

implacable triggers when envenom drops

[lime onyx]

yeah it's working rn

[balmy condor]

you cancelaura envenom, envenom is gone

[lime onyx]

i'm on dumies

[balmy condor]

implac triggers

[quiet star]

Let me check again

[balmy condor]

this is something that got discussed for a long time for months

it's just not worth it because what the hell is the point lmao

[solid yew]

hey guys whats the best fight style, number of bosses and fight length to use sim or raidbots if u want to see your correct dps in a M+ for example?

[balmy condor]

the only way it would be worth canceling is if you're like

I don't even know what

[solid yew]

i dont sim usually so just curious

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice

[solid yew]

ahh ok!

[balmy condor]

but there's no way to show "correct dps"

that doesn't really apply

[solid yew]

ty @balmy condor

[quiet star]

you on low energy and just get 7 sec envenom

[balmy condor]

okay and then what

[quiet star]

then I will be back faster onto pressing buttons

[balmy condor]

you literally won't

[stuck lodge]

I think conceptually the point would be to start the next envenom chain faster, but I do think it would cause some energy issues

[languid grail]

hi all, did any of you run Aiyije CDM? because i cant track implacable as a buff like Better Cooldown manager

[balmy condor]

that makes actually no sense

like okay

you envenom, you get to 80 stacks right

it's got 7 seconds

but you have no energy

[quiet star]

what is make no sense to me is having envenom buff when you can't press it

[balmy condor]

so what is the difference between you waiting, pressing mut twice to generate the cp for the next envenom, letting envenom drop

and then going

versus canceling the envenom entirely and then pressing mut after

like you're getting the implacable energy regardless

[lime edge]

what if u mut

cancel

[balmy condor]

you trigger the apex in both situations

[lime edge]

then envenom

[balmy condor]

okay, what does that achieve

that's the same thing I just said except you canceled some uptime on envenom

[lime edge]

faster energy

[balmy condor]

good deal

faster how

[lime edge]

its no uptime cancel

wdym

[balmy condor]

assa isn't limited on gcds

it's limited on energy, yes?

[gritty laurel]

Oh shit, we’re killing the “whispyr’s will to live” raid boss let me get in on this

[balmy condor]

so if we're limited on energy right

[thorn thorn]

Dont its the hidden phase rn

[balmy condor]

explain to me how you're getting more energy

[thorn thorn]

Its gonna be over soon

[lime edge]

from the apex

[balmy condor]

you're proccing the apex in both situations

[lime edge]

but one procs it 5 seconds faster right

[balmy condor]

you're either waiting and proccing the apex

[plush isle]

Assa ist limited on Thistle Tea Charges

[balmy condor]

FASTER DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING

THINK

USE YOUR NOGGIN

okay

another example maybe

since we're being dense as shit

[lime edge]

what about when u have some aoe

so u have a bit more energy

[plush isle]

maplestory today seemed spicy

[lime edge]

enough aoe that it lets u spam on gcd

if u cancelaura

[quiet star]

oh I see, remvoing envenom buff will break NookaImplacable addon XD

that's why I thought it didn't work

[solid yew]

whens the best time to use lights potential for opener or just in general? anybody know?

[lime edge]

just use it with deathmark

or puzzle

[thorn thorn]

Name one scenario where this happene and the adds dont blow up instantly

Algethar does not count

Cuz thats at the start

[lime edge]

npx triple boss

not npx

seat

[thorn thorn]

So realistically whats the gain in a perma 3t fight of canceling it early

[quiet star]

ok, to be honest maybe the problem this apex is a bit counterintuitive
you build up something, but by continuing rotation you don't get that "something"

this is actually very strange design to me

[thorn thorn]

Congrats you have discovered whispyrs entire complaint about the apex

An apex that wants pooling but doesnt promote pooling

[analog field]

Like why cancel it when you are low energy when you just use this time to regen energy cause implacable alone does not get you to a full chain of envenoms

You will have the energy issue later rather than now

[languid grail]

Hear me out, swap deathmark to 1 min cd, all ppl happy

jk

[balmy condor]

if I hit my envenom, and I wait 4 seconds for it to drop, and I get the apex energy. I get the following:

1. apex energy
2. full envenom uptime
3. four seconds of downtime

if I hit my envenom, and I cancel it, and I get the apex energy. I get the ffollowing:

1. apex energy
2. less envenom uptime
3. the same four seconds of downtime, but I don't get it now, I get those four seconds later in my rotation

You are not adding any more or any less energy into the rotation, and since energy is the limiter on everything, you're pressing the same buttons. If I gave you 2000 energy to work with, and zero regeneration, zero apex procs, you will press your buttons until you hit zero energy. If I gave you 200 energy, but it regenerated until you have regenerated 1800 energy total, you still only have 2000 energy, you're pressing the same buttons. So the only thing you have gotten out of any of this is lower envenom uptime and you got nothing in return

[quiet star]

only 4 days playing rogue in this season, a lot of new things for me

[balmy condor]

it's literally just worse

you get nothing, and give up something

[thorn thorn]

Its just how spec designed

[royal hazel]

Playing assa is like dancing You nedd know when to slow down or speed up.

[thorn thorn]

Spec and apex designed for pooling

[balmy condor]

yeah see, you used your brain

this is incredible

[thorn thorn]

No benefit for pooling

[balmy condor]

vov1nho my goat

[thorn thorn]

Very little

[solid yew]

how so?

[lucid silo]

do we have sims for the specs changes next week(comparing the 3 specs)

[lime edge]

what if the 4 seconds dont come later

[balmy condor]

by definition they do

[lime edge]

or what if that later is when the mobs are dead

[balmy condor]

when you wouldn't proc the apex to begin with?

[thorn thorn]

Ok now we just ragebaiting

Extremely low effort bait

[balmy condor]

this is not difficult

[gritty laurel]

Somebody load it into path of building and paste that into a guide so shax will actually read it

[plush isle]

What Cooldown Manager are you guys using, Better Cooldown Manager bricks Implacable like 50% of the time, do you use another addon for that ?

[quiet star]

That actually make sense

[lime edge]

ayo POE INTRUDER

NO POE HERE

[quiet star]

Sometimes you get a lot of points

Sometimes not

[coral ibex]

blizzard bricks implacable tracking

no cdm addons will fix it

blizzard just needs to fix it

[plush isle]

so patch 12.1.5 ?

[coral ibex]

[spice spire]

13.1.5*

[balmy condor]

I guess if we're being super technical right, you can cancelaura in the very specific circumstance of you not having any energy, and you have 80 stacks of the apex, and you would be able to make use of the ~65 energy you get from the apex proccing, but the mobs are also dead before your next implacable proc, and you have the combo points to instantly envenom again, but you also have enough time remaining on the pack to make use of rapid injection and dashing

so like

[thorn thorn]

6 7

[balmy condor]

in that 4 second window where all those conditions line up

[quiet star]

It looks like you don't need to track it if you are not supposed to pooling

[balmy condor]

I suppose you're getting like

an extra fok

[spice spire]

Rox I’ll eat your asshole raw, dog I s2g

[thorn thorn]

Promise

[thorn thorn]

Oh boy an extra .1%

[balmy condor]

isn't this conversation showing that you are supposed to be pooling

canceling envenom to proc the apex would be not pooling

but it's wrong, and provably wrong, in like 3 different ways

so

that would mean pooling is actually supposed to happen

[quiet star]

I'm already lost on understanding how to manage that apex

[balmy condor]

if you are not overcapping energy in the process or shortly afterwards, you hit 80 and wait for envenom to drop

[quiet star]

It sounds and looks like it has some idea behind, but I don't get it

[balmy condor]

that way you get bonus energy and you're happy