assassination

[hollow dirge]

was 😄

[main olive]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-my-honest-reaction-damn-skull-skeleton-gif-15885937969029652188

[hollow dirge]

more of a joke towards ds not being played for shit, than rage bait, but can work either way

[idle vine]

yo so how is rogue looking going into midnight

is it joever?

[narrow cypress]

Well you now have time to browse streams YouTube or tiktoks while changing songs on your playlist during the frequent waits for energy

[idle vine]

i used to go on my phone during star auger prog due to pooling and zero mechanics requiring movement

so we're back to that

[balmy condor]

looking fine

also energy in midnight is literally just as fast if not faster than it was in tww s3

which is a genuine concern for s2/s3 of midnight

[idle vine]

oh so we're barack

[balmy condor]

but yah sure, giga pooling infinity downtime or whatever

[idle vine]

oh that sucks

is it all 3 specs or just assassin

[balmy condor]

for what exactly

[idle vine]

pooling/energy changes

[balmy condor]

just assa

sub is still slow outside of cds obviously

but like

you don't care, cause it's sub

[idle vine]

i just saw the limit maximum dps tier list where they put assassination in the worst possible tier and outlaw in C and sub in B so i thought id come see whats up

but maybe its not so bad?

[balmy condor]

shindig was insano super dooming for no real reason

meme ass tier list to begin with but ya know

doesn't help when the guy placing the spec just crashes out

it is what it is

[proper cosmos]

Do you trust a tier list that puts Arcane mage to low B high C tier?

[idle vine]

anyway its fine im not gonna be pushing world first ill just play ass ❤️

[balmy condor]

real shit

so based

[idle vine]

my alt is shaman and apparently both specs are ok so there's that at least

[subtle tundra]

isnt ele shaman like

really shit

castrated

0 skill expression

actually nvm

thats a good thing

im on #assassination

[idle vine]

yeah but chain lightning is fun

[orchid spear]

@balmy condor what did u mean by overcaping combo points?

[subtle tundra]

you generate combo points while you have full combo points

so you waste em

[orchid spear]

but why would you wanna do that?

[balmy condor]

in giga aoe you can CT instead of envenom to spread harder at the start of the pull

[orchid spear]

ohhh I see

[balmy condor]

it's basically just relevant for first pull algethar

and it's almost entirely pad

so like

[subtle tundra]

cause the numbers are in a way where it sucks

[balmy condor]

you get what you get

[subtle tundra]

theres algethar in the dungeon rota?

[balmy condor]

yeh

[subtle tundra]

yucky

[balmy condor]

but the tree area is the only giga pull

they changed the rest of the dungeon to where you can't do like 35 mob pulls

[orchid spear]

and how is that similar to sub? do they do the same thing?

[balmy condor]

sub in single target casts shadowstrike instead of a finisher in order to proc their apex

because it's just more efficient

[subtle tundra]

cool!

[balmy condor]

but they got some hotfixes to bugs that maybe make that not relevant anymore idk

they were doing it last I checked

[orchid spear]

ty for answering

[subtle tundra]

no worries

[orchid spear]

how much should they buff caustic to prevent us from spamming CT or making it worthless?

[balmy condor]

I mean my fix ideally would be to stop making CT hit like a fucking truck

cause that button is freakishly strong

but they could buff caustic and nerf CT at once

[faint crescent]

Its weird that it hits like a truck 😄

[subtle tundra]

ok

[balmy condor]

and it would be fine

[subtle tundra]

they could delete either one

so no problem after

[balmy condor]

varas shut up bro you haven't played the game in like a year

why are you even here

[subtle tundra]

professional hater

[balmy condor]

makes sense

[orchid spear]

but before they nerfed caustic it was better to spam envenom or CT?

[balmy condor]

well CT is a generator

[jolly stirrup]

Bring back Shiv into Damage rota, fixxed. Trust

[balmy condor]

but you were using envenom, yes

[jolly stirrup]

I dont know what i am talking about

[balmy condor]

it's just that the caustic nerf and then CT being untouched means that it ends up being worth to CT to spread bleeds before pressing envenom, it's more efficient AOE

in like giga big pull like algethar, it's like nearly 17-20%

but that 17-20% gain is entirely on the useless fuck off lashers that you don't care about

so it's kinda just the ultimate pad

can flex on your guildies I guess

they could frankly just nerf CT damage by 50-60%

there is zero reason why that button should be doing that much damage

[subtle tundra]

i honestly think it should do nothing but spread bleeds

but im varas and i dont matter

[balmy condor]

that's the most reasonable thing you've said in weeks

[hollow dirge]

i guess since they took out majority of energy gain from venomous, they wanted the button to instead do more dmg,but I guess they should nerf it yeah, it should never be a priority over envenom with full cp

[balmy condor]

the bleeds are the damage

[hollow dirge]

i know i know, but they were before too, but you also gained all the energy

i agree anyhow, just kill it's dmg

[balmy condor]

it's tuned 30% higher than fok btw

CT is just delusionally strong idk who made that decision

30% more baseline damage than fok, generates the same combo points, applies the same poisons

but then also spreads bleeds

and like you could play devil's advocate and say "but the energy!!!!!"

[hollow dirge]

yeah, it's dumb, and probably will get nerfed

[balmy condor]

the counter to that is that blizzard couldn't be fucked to add anything to energy gameplay other than the first apex talent

so like

do they really give a shit

[green rune]

are the changes live on beta now? I don't see any mention of it but Petko is saying the changes are live on beta. I was just play ass on beta and didnt seem to notice anything diffferent

[hollow dirge]

problem with it not doing dmg is that in big packs you would have a whole bunch of gcds used on ability that does not deal dmg, which could potentially feel a bit slow, and would slow down the aoe even more, but I guess they could just remove the dmg from it and push it into bleeds instead

[balmy condor]

that's cause our changes were meaningless small numerical changes

what changes are you hoping to notice

[balmy condor]

you can't move it into bleeds, you just moved the damage from CT into CT

you have to move it into caustic or envenom

and then your gcds wouldn't be dead

cause you're envenoming

and it's causting

caust...icing?

causterizing

whatever

it's doing aoe

[green rune]

you werent hoping to see any changes? I was hoping for SOMETHING noticeable lol

[balmy condor]

I mean I know what the number is for the changes

so

I was not going to notice any changes, no

a 4-5% dps increase in aoe with a near zero change in single target

[green rune]

I'm not a numbers nerd so you got me there I guess

[balmy condor]

is not something that I can quantify in regular gameplay

I'm not counting pennies on details generally

[lean aurora]

whispyr if things look dire there is always a space for you inside the outlaw community 😛

[balmy condor]

I'm good actually

I'll play the spec

but that channel is hell

[hollow dirge]

yeah, but you're gonna use those cts to get bleeds up no matter what, what matters is that envenom is a better button to press with full cp and that fok is a better button to press with bleeds up.
do you think without actual dmg dealt by ct, that it would be still be prefered ability to use on full cp instead of envenom?

[balmy condor]

also you won't catch me playing outlaw seriously for a while cause ain't no way I'm crafting a fucking sword within the first roughly 8 sparks

3/6 hero track sword gaming in my weekly 10's

[balmy condor]

that

is not how that works

you have to count the bleed damage as being part of CT, because that's what's applying them

CT is doing damage, and applying 2 garrotes and 2 ruptures

so as a total package, that is some function of damage

if you just nerf the damage of CT, and then put it right back into garrote and rupture

CT is still doing that damage

you just delayed it

but it doesn't change how valuable the button is

you have to remove damage from the button and put it into something that is not that button

put it in poison bomb for all I care

but can't buff anything connected to CT

[orchid spear]

is not delayed, right? bc in ST that damage will be shown, and in that scenario you don't use CT

[hollow dirge]

i'm not talking about the value of the button, as it's the most valuable in aoe no matter what, I'm just talking about it's influence on rotation. but I do not mind moving dmg out of bleeds too, if it's too valuable

[balmy condor]

but you have to talk about the value of the button

that is the rotational influence

like okay, lets say CT is doing 100 damage, and envenom is doing 200 damage right, that's sorta roughly the breakdown

the reason you are spamming CT right now

[hollow dirge]

yes, hence my question about that in second part of my msg

[balmy condor]

is because the combined damage you get out of spamming it pushes CT's value above envenom

which is from the bleeds

the bleeds can stay as strong as they are

but you gotta extract damage from CT

alternatively

take damage out of the bleeds

and that would work too

if you nerfed CT by like 50%

[hollow dirge]

yes, but my question is given all targets having bleeds already, since we're gonna push them having bleeds in most scenarios anyway

[balmy condor]

that would be enough

well if all targets have bleeds

then you obviously aren't spamming CT

that would be pointless

you swap to fok

[hollow dirge]

yeah

[balmy condor]

yeah that's not in question

[hollow dirge]

either way, push the dmg into anything and remove the initial dmg from ct

[balmy condor]

removing is a bit drastic

but yeh sure

[hollow dirge]

i would not mind it being removed, or atleast scaled to 30% less than fok

[balmy condor]

yeh

50% is enough

[severe meadow]

Doomblade buff or riot

[blazing totem]

bring back!

[static glacier]

Watch them merge CT and fok

Same kinda vibe as them making soul reaper use all your putrefy stacks

[blazing totem]

half a solution for UDK, you still wanna press putrefy manually

if you hold it you lose on a charge

merging fok and CT would be peak brainless gameplay tho

you use your main aoe generator and it autospreads bleeds for you

at least now there is some small decision making

[steel ridge]

or just bring back OG Indiscriminate Carnage

(without cooldown)

[lean plover]

i miss sbs

and er

[final geode]

man... shindigg dragged assassination rogue through the mud. feels bad

[lean plover]

well he started with the its a hot take disclaimer

[jade abyss]

Who?

[tacit hedge]

It may not be D tier but is he wrong?

[lean plover]

the assas ive seen in beta were doing good

so

[coral ibex]

i think most people would think the spec was fine if they turned off details

too many people are literally psyopped by the bottom right of their monitor

[tacit hedge]

Isn't that wow in general?

[lean plover]

shindigg explicitely said it was a hot take and partialy bc he doesnt enjoy the current gameplay or the ct padding thing

[coral ibex]

can't distinguish between "i like this" and "this does good damage"

[wet river]

^

[lean plover]

yep

so many people suddenly realized they loved uh dk this last seasons

fast invites and big dmg is fun tho

[keen pecan]

!bugs

[runic hinge]

The ct padding thing will probably get tuned. I don’t think blizz intends for us to ignore finishers and spam the bleed spread button and id be surprised if it lasts 2 weeks into the season

[vocal basalt]

This is every game where damage is a thing

People play the "big numbers" builds because they want the fastest completion of content

[sinful shale]

Should check the homie out

[spice surge]

While i agree with your point. If you are going to be pugging its exponentially easier to be playing something people perceive as OP

And if blizzard continues with the balance pacing like theyve done in s2 and s3 (ie basically no changes whatsoever) then why wouldnt you play whats the best so you actually get to play the game

Hopefully blizzard does more frequent tuning so lots of things end up being solid, but i wouldnt hold my breath

[coral ibex]

you'll have more fun making friends and playing the spec you actually enjoy than pugging fotm with strangers for months on end

[spice surge]

Ye ofc

But thats some long-term thinking, not short-term gratification

[late ravine]

AA Not good not bad, 1 mil peak on first pull

[lean plover]

Were the other 2 dps close to you in first pull?

[late ravine]

Dk was, BM is doing bm things ig https://www.twitch.tv/speedycsgogg/clip/PhilanthropicRoughMarjoramPMSTwin-OU-T4E4e3A1F7GgT

Could be higher, if I played on-use trink

[calm grail]

I know asking what race is best is a loaded dumb question. Any Sims on Haranir stuff though?

[calm grail]

This is huge. You could play a bad spec well, but if you're pugging you better be okay sitting in queues for a while. It sucks.

[runic hinge]

I just don’t pug. If my friends and guildies aren’t online I’m not subjecting myself to the degeneracy that’s m+. That’s just me tho

[lethal turtle]

YO NERF SIN

[severe meadow]

Who’s team are you on

[lethal turtle]

Sin

[nova aspen]

[severe meadow]

[lethal turtle]

Ok you caught me

I think I am playing WW

[severe meadow]

I didn’t rank ww that well on my tier list…

Not looking good for you

[lethal turtle]

I put Sin in Omega Galaxy Milk Tier.

Will be nuked now

GL

[severe meadow]

Fucked up

[frosty cedar]

galaxy milk is goated

[lethal turtle]

[tawny shell]

So is the issue with CT it’s more worth to bleed every target before FOK? Is that not good?

[fresh kelp]

well you also dont spend combo points and just spam ct at max until everything is bled

[sacred oyster]

yes thats the case but i think its making people feel like its wrong to sit there w/o spending max CP since that isnt usual for a DPS class

but i like it honestly as it lets you keep concentration on bleed spread while mobs may be a bit mobile still (like opening with ToTT before the tank has stopped moving) and using envenom can be annoying there to ensure your in position to get it on a good target.or like saw blades on floodgate first big pull, if im sitting with 5+ CP but sawblades forced me to move away cant immediately dump but can keep spamming CT

[severe meadow]

I really don’t think that’s the intended gameplay blizzard wants for us

[sacred oyster]

well, spreading bleeds is intended gameplay, its question of which should be higher dps, the DPS from dumping envenom or the dmg from spread bleeds

and right now the spread bleeds is higher, so the time it takes to dump envenom is missed bleed ticks, resulting in less dps

[severe meadow]

I just mean overcapping on combo points like we do currently

Spreading bleeds is fine gameplay

[sacred oyster]

they would need to bump the dmg of envenom, as we sure as hell dont need a nerf when other classes still smoke us

so maybe unneerf caustic

[spice surge]

I mean they can just nerf the damage of CT

Its an easy fix

[lime onyx]

Yeah if they just increase envenom dmg, we become op in ST. They dug themselves in a hole. CT dmg nerf with maybe a -5 energy buff

[sacred oyster]

we dont need a dmg nerf lol

[spice surge]

Then they can compensate somewhere else or with an aura buff

It doesnt really matter

And assa isnt bad

[sacred oyster]

its not CT's dmg that is giving the boost, its the bleeds, getting more mobs ticking bleeds faster is why CT is pulling ahead

if you want envenom to be a higher priority, caustic has to be buffed

sims show rupture pulling into 2nd place on DPS, with garrote as #1

[lime onyx]

CT dmg is so high tho that it’s almost the same exact dps to spam ct and never touch fok even with the massive energy cost difference

[sacred oyster]

the higher energy cost gets you to starved faster, i think that statement isnt always true

i did a test the other day and CT spam over FOK failed

i think whisp said its only at even higher mob counts that holds true, but your also just prob silently still benefiting from spreading bleeds faster

key thing is understanding WHY its higher dps, and the answere is getting your bleeds spread to all mobs faster, is giving more mobs ticking faster. that time we took to dump envenom every 5CP left more mobs w/o bleeds in the pack for the first few seconds of a pull

[sonic willow]

!ui

[prisma monolith]

Assassination UI Imports:
Currently not available. Sharing UI's is not as standarized as it was with Weakauras.

For now, browse the following Blizzard HUD and Blizzard CDM imports on Wago:

• Blizzard HUD
• Blizzard CDM

[sacred oyster]

the true question "is it better to FOK or CT" once all mobs already have bleed and you are no longer gaining DPS consdieration from bleed spread.

[severe meadow]

@solar wyvern how was the pure ST in your testing

In the beta dungeons

[spice spire]

@severe meadow can’t take you seriously with a real pfp dog

[severe meadow]

Do I gotta go back to e girl picture

[runic hinge]

Yes

[spice spire]

Ya sorry king I don’t make the rules (I do)

[chrome meadow]

from the ct changes we dont really need to target swap in big pulls anymore for applying bleeds?

[sacred oyster]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mLMXHAXNyh7fJsVvx3CdRX

ok CT only is slightly higher yeah

that sim does baseline "Spread bleeds as higher prio" and only changes "do we use FOK or CT if nothing needs bleed"

[sacred oyster]

nothing about CT has a bias towards target, you can be targetting nothing and hit CT. unless theres some secret hidden perk of applying extra dmg to current target

[spice surge]

Correct

[chrome meadow]

i meant we dont have to swap for garote rupture anymore right

because ct handles it for us

[sacred oyster]

you can even get them put on 2 diff mobs then CT will merge them

[chrome meadow]

you mean rupture one and garrote the other and ct makes both have rup and gar?

[sacred oyster]

yep

ok, so same sim above but 5 target https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7FHDCsKoGddJvk1N2z5Mcs
CT Only is a massive 10% dmg loss. so yeah the idea of CT Only is only applicable at more than 10 mobs which i think is what whisp said before

id personally stick with switching to FOK once bleeds are spread still and not try to switch it up at larger pulls for marginal gains

[solar wyvern]

like 73k ds 80k fatebound

[sacred oyster]

though one flaw on the sims is they dont refresh bleeds by CT spamming once bleeds are about to wear off. so by waiting until they drop i feel your missing DPS by letting mobs go back to a no bleed state. not sure how the apl could be updated to tell it to refresh before it falls off.

[spice surge]

What

[sacred oyster]

though i guess it may be catching it fast enough

[sacred oyster]

this rule

actions.generate=crimson_tempest,if=!variable.single_target&(active_dot.garrote<spell_targets.fan_of_knives|active_dot.rupture<spell_targets.fan_of_knives)

it requires noticing a mob is missing its bleeds before it refreshes.

I personally start refreshing once the pack is nearing the final 5s

so they never drop the bleeds

so the apl would need something like OR active dot duration <= 5

but if your current targets bleeds are refreshed by core_dots

Normal Garrote Maintanence

actions.core_dot+=/garrote,if=combo_points.deficit>=1&(pmultiplier<=1|!variable.single_target)&refreshable&target.time_to_die-remains>12

Normal Rupture Maintanence, making sure to not waste Darkest Night

actions.core_dot+=/rupture,if=combo_points>=5&refreshable&target.time_to_die-remains>12&(!buff.darkest_night.up|!dot.rupture.ticking)

I imagine the generate line is going to calculate on the same target, so ideally you would need to say "sample a random target hit by FOK and check its dots refresh status"

we also prob should have the APL Do spell_targets.crimson_tempest instead of FOK for bleed spread since the range is larger on CT

[tawny shell]

Ahh okay. Didn’t read that part. That is aids

[sacred oyster]

its "simpler", its still a skill divide of those who know to do that vs those who dont lol.

i dont personally see how needing to dump envenom before continueing bleed spread makes anything more fun

logic is get dots on target, spread dots, do FOK>ENV dmg rotation. only thing that changes is no more intermingled ENV in the middle of bleed spread operation.

you can still dump env if you want though.

[urban fern]

I was spamming CT and then kept saying “oh shit I gotta dump” so the fact that it’s actually better to not dump is dope lol

It feels better imo to just get the bleeds out

[sacred oyster]

ultimately it boils down to, to do more damage, do less during the bleed spread. focus bleed spread

dumping env may also be a situational case where still want to do it even if bleeds arent spread to get a high prio target dead faster, like alarm shrills in ARA. thatll be a skill divide there too to know situational dynamicness there.

tthough thats maybe bad example since those pulls arent too large and bleeds get spread fast lol

[ornate kelp]

Is it true you have to spam CT in aoe without spending CP ?

Just watched Shindig talk about it on Max's stream, it can't be real ? That sounds actually like a degen playstyle

[spice surge]

Until everything you care about has bleeds yes

But having a pull with like 12+ targets that all have the same priority is very rare

[ornate kelp]

So overcaping CP is ok ? wtf is this lol

[sacred oyster]

so its only a difference in the first few seconds when spreading, then you go back to FOK and dump

[uncut snow]

assa is basically unplayable rn. Need a venomous wounds buff, it was 8 energy per tick before and now its 3. I think that will make it at least playable

[spice surge]

Lmao

Assa is fine numerically

[ornate kelp]

playable and numericaly fine are two different things imo, it can be strong but disgusting to play

[spice surge]

Ok assa is definitely playable then

[mint urchin]

It's just CT that's degenerate

The rest is fine

[runic hinge]

and its only on pulls with more than 10 mobs

[undone kelp]

dumb question, do i still need ambush on my bars?

[spice surge]

that also do not have a priority target

[sacred oyster]

even at ~15 targets CT Only is only around like 2% more. at 10 targets, they are equal. at 5 targets, CT only is a 10% LOSS.

[royal lantern]

you realise that venemous wounds was reduced because they added talents (that you take because they are unavoidable at the top of the tree) that increase energy genration

right???????????

[runic hinge]

they dont, they want infinite energy aoe back and they can't stand to not hit their buttons

[royal lantern]

not really

[static glacier]

Motivated murderer

[royal lantern]

Poisoners Drive is also a Talent that generates CP

[static glacier]

Ye, I was just providing the “cool, edgy” talent name

Ngl tho, with all this pooling design maybe they shoulda called it procrastinating murderer

Woulda fit my irl class fantasy better ngl

[sacred oyster]

look at it as blizz caring for your wrist health and giving you breaks to relax your muscles

[static glacier]

Blizzard don’t care about anyone’s wrist health bro

https://tenor.com/view/xalatath-warcraft-spaghetti-world-of-warcraft-gif-12070578727197966411

[sacred oyster]

I was expecting you to use the toes argument

[static glacier]

I’ve never seen a big company give as much goon material

[sacred oyster]

soon as i wrote that, i thougth "someones gonna mention xalatoes"

[static glacier]

Smaller ones sure

Or maybe JP, game devs there are insane

Gooner country

[sacred oyster]

FF14 is 2000x worse but its not fro mthe devs themselves, just the modding ecosystem

[mint urchin]

It cracks me up, pick the spec defined for being slow and around pooling, complain it's too slow and requires pooling

[mint urchin]

If anything the devs are fighting it lol

[coral ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/652253589825126401/1385014269703225375/Gtv3Td4XwAARAsb.gif

[sacred oyster]

some interesting numbers
5 target CT Only = -10.7% DPS
8 target CT Only = -2.3% DPS
9 target CT Only = +0.4% DPS
10 target CT Only = +0.7% DPS
12 target CT Only = +3.8% DPS
15 target CT Only = +3.2% DPS

its interesting how its not linear, and has a hard breakpoint at 8 to 9 to switch positive. I suspect the energy cost of CT is at play and the higher target counts is changing the equation of the implicit bleed refreshing thats being triggered earlier instead of waiting for it to fall off starts to make up for the DPS loss by using CT over FOK.

example sim for 15 target, I just changed the desired_targets line in the script. (ignore right column, the simc script is overriding that 1 target)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tFgxJMeF2gzyiztQMQH4Pk

my take away is throw away this idea of "CT Only".
CT if you want to spread a bleed (which you should if any target is missing bleed that still has significant health left and not about to die), else use FOK.

[runic hinge]

ive heard the spec is "so slow now its unplayable" when its like 2 apm slower

[white comet]

What's the best race looking like for M+ rogue? nelf or dwarf?

[oak tangle]

yes

[sacred oyster]

belf

does night elf get the same crit bonus as blood?

[royal lantern]

can we like

not

spread AI slop

[amber yoke]

why did blizz have to make ct a cp builder again? like do we know the logic there?

[royal lantern]

speed up assa aoe dmg

so that instead of garrote->build cp->rupture->build cp->ct and spread

its garrote->build cp->rupture->CT

[amber yoke]

cause it seems like if it had stayed a spender, even with the new bleed spread function, it would be better than "spam ct and even if cp capped"

[royal lantern]

man

the raw dmg nmber is juust overtuned

[amber yoke]

mh i spose it is faster

[royal lantern]

idk why you guys act as if there is some fundamental flaw

its just a single number change lol

[amber yoke]

i have no idea if there is

[sacred oyster]

you least then have the CP ready to dump on your last CT 🙂 removing CP doesnt change anything other than not trigger people seeing capped CP and not spending it lol

[amber yoke]

that is quite triggering tbf

it feels icky

[royal lantern]

like

do you guys REALLY think that they will let CT do more dmg then FoK?

[sacred oyster]

it doesnt currently.

thats what all those numbers i said above are

[royal lantern]

yeha cus its wonky prepatch bs

[sacred oyster]

the seeing higher DPS at larger add count is a side effect

[amber yoke]

is that really the big thing? I figured the bleed spreading aspect is what gives it its power and prio over fok

even if capped

well i mean fok while capped doesnt make sense either, i guess prio over env

[sacred oyster]

the fundamental key thing is the bleed dmg is massive, you want to get all mobs bleeding. taking time to dump envenom while some mobs sit not bleeding, is missing bleed ticks

[amber yoke]

well that then sounds like there is a fundamental flaw then. as long as a filler spreads our bleeds, we will overcap cps using it

till everything bleeds

[sacred oyster]

the evaluation becomes, does the damage caused by dumping envenom make up for and exceed the damage lost by leaving 2-4 mobs not bleeding, and currently the answer is no

if they want to change it, buff caustic/envenom

to make it worth casting

[runic hinge]

I think people are also missing its only to bleed things, you're not spamming ct the whole pull, its just til stuff has bleeds, then its normal, and its only at super high target counts without a prio target

[glad holly]

I feel like it would have made more sense as a finisher that spread your bleeds to >2 targets as we have it now, but what do I know

[amber yoke]

oh i know. what if it didnt generate cp. or less cp. and cost less energy. or idk. surely there is some way to fix this problem thats already been figured out by the big brains

[sacred oyster]

which is what this was about #assassination message
This sim is testing "after all targets have bleed, compare math of dmg per energy spent"

in 9+ target scenarios, it turns positive i believe purely due to side effect of bleed spreading

[spice surge]

Nerfing the damage of CT, buffing caustic, buffing envenom, buffing poison bomb. Lots of things that easily fix it

[runic hinge]

they could just buff envenom and we'd care

[spice surge]

Which is what theyre gonna do, so idk

Not really a big issue

[blazing totem]

more like un nerf caustic

[amber yoke]

watch them nerf bleeds to fix

they seem to love doing that

[sacred oyster]

i really hope they dont go nerf route. our dmg vs "meta" classes is such a divide already.

[sacred oyster]

kind of a weird reply when you responded to me literally sim'ing myself lol.

[runic hinge]

I hope they go the buff envenom route so we get some ST while also making it worth to always spend combo points normally

[sacred oyster]

agreed, im not opposed to them reintroducing it being the best to dump CP during spread, just im not upset that i dont need to currently lol.

[jolly stirrup]

Fucking finally, I thought I would be the unlucky one in our guild who wouldnt get it ^^

[royal lantern]

yooo gz man

[sacred oyster]

i thought that was like guaranteed like heroic version? is that an rng drop in mythic?

[jolly stirrup]

Yes 3 drops per kill

[sacred oyster]

yeah i doubt ill ever get to do full mythic raid clears, guild size isnt large, were more casual, and some of the people who are more hardcore hates raiding lol.

every pug ive done fails at Araz 🙁

need to find a guild to team with for my people who do want to raid

[static glacier]

That’s not the choice, it’s does the damage done by envenom + spatter beat out having CT a global later each time that decision is made vs 2 CT, the fact a generator beats a spender is HIGHLY illegal

It’s like if Mut did more dmg than env

[sacred oyster]

dont look at it as a generator beating a spender, its the side effect thats beating - the side effect being more targets bleeding faster

[royal lantern]

ITS JUST WONKY PREPATCH/BETA TUNIG GUYS

ITS NOT THAT DEEP

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[sacred oyster]

ok nvm i take that back

i guess it is in this sim lol

[static glacier]

I consider the side effect part of CT

[sacred oyster]

but that may be due to the sheer volume of it

[static glacier]

It’s like saying spatter is a side effect of envenom

Or poison bomb

You look at things holistically

Not isolated

[oak tangle]

nah, deathmark lowest dps on the sim, shit ability

[static glacier]

[oak tangle]

for real tho, i am surprised melee is so low on that

[sacred oyster]

its 1m30 ad pack

[oak tangle]

o

is it us? or sub that got the multistrike talent

or is that just poison multistrike not weapons

[royal lantern]

dont say that out loud

or they will buff melee dmg by 300000000% again

[haughty flicker]

The only talent I can think of thats what you describe is secondary poisoning, which I dont think we even use

But I haven't kept up with builds so idk

[oak tangle]

one step ahead of me, i havent kept up with the changes

[haughty flicker]

[sacred oyster]

with caustics 10s timer, does that mean that target cant trigger a caustic again for 10s but if you dumped envenom on a different target, it could, or does the splatter mark all hit by it too?

i question would it mabe be worth dumping 1 envenom per 10s while spreading.

[blazing totem]

guys beta just started, they will tune

guys it's still half beta ahead of us, they will tune

guys it's inly prepatch, they will tune

guys it's only week 1, they will tune

where do we draw the line?

[static glacier]

The timer is just a relic of the old version, I’m fairly confident you can remove the new one from tracking

[runic hinge]

turbo boost

[royal lantern]

im gonna be blunt there

shut up

[static glacier]

You never pool long enough for it to drop and the spells it benefits are the ones it applies from

[haughty flicker]

[oak tangle]

Woah woah woah, what have they done to caustic

[static glacier]

You being serious?

[spice surge]

Yeah why havent they fixed it before smh my head???? (it was introduced after the most recent changes)

[sacred oyster]

oh i misread the tooltip, the 10s causes all nature done in the 10s to splash, i thought it was instant splash dmg

[oak tangle]

All I know is caustic procs from envenom, I didn’t think it functioned any differently otherwise

[static glacier]

The splash dmg is instant, it just mirrors dmg instances on the target with spatter

[static glacier]

Kb too

It’s functionally afk passive don’t think about it

[spice surge]

Thats why its not tracked

Since it doesnt matter

[static glacier]

They litterally made it fool proof

[fallow canopy]

thank god I'm a fool

[static glacier]

I can’t picture a situation where you violate caustic without first violating a core fundamental rule of the spec like don’t overcap energy

Or don’t spend combo points

[blazing totem]

I was refering to tuning in general, not CT problem

[sacred oyster]

so, if you dumped envenoms on a rotating target (can prob get 2-3 in a 10s window) thats already bleeding, the bleed procs within those 10s windows should trigger a splatter each tick.

is that correct? I suspect the sim isnt going into that detail of maximizing targets with caustic applied to them.

[oak tangle]

Didn’t we also work out way back that the envenom that applies the caustic is splashed anyway? How could you f it up

[static glacier]

Are bleeds nature damage?

[coral ibex]

no

bleeds are physical

[static glacier]

Bro it was rhetorical to get him to think

[haughty flicker]

bleeds do not spatter

[sacred oyster]

oh doh i was thinking poisons

[static glacier]

I obviously know bleeds don’t spatter xd

[haughty flicker]

they should rename it to crimson spatter

[sacred oyster]

yeah i mixed up the tick in my head my bad

[haughty flicker]

and make it bleeds

[oak tangle]

Irl they do

[static glacier]

You’re thinking too hard about it bro

Whatever cope gameplay we can come up with regarding rotating envenoms onto amp poison stacked targets violates having ur dmg into a prio target / staying on dsm marked target

[sacred oyster]

i was trying to see is there maybe still a time envenom is worth dumping during bleed spread

[static glacier]

It will be in midnight, I’m like 99% sure

Blizz won’t just leave the spec overcapping combo points on purpose

You’ll dump cp with env between caustic while spearing bleeds

[sacred oyster]

that implies blizz is paying attention enough to know that.

[oak tangle]

I mean it’s a dps loss up until like 9 targets, who’s to say we even get into those situations to begin with

[static glacier]

Like I know they ain’t got the best track record with bugs, I don’t remember them leaving something like this alone long term though

[sacred oyster]

its also not like your required to overcap, its just thats what maximizes damage

[static glacier]

Esp since this violates their core principle of class design in midnight being intuitive

[static glacier]

Maximising output is basically required if we’re adopting tc perspective

[oak tangle]

Are the sims you guys are using level 80 or level 90 ones

[runic hinge]

69

[sacred oyster]

mine was 80/non beta as i dont have a beta input to try on the beta raidbots

[static glacier]

Otherwise wtf is the point of John whispyr wowhead’s existence other than generating resentment for spamming our servers with Diablo * wowhead posts when we’re waiting on tuning

**these may be disabled, but no one other than John wowhead know how

[oak tangle]

So you don’t even have the apex talent for energy regeneration that’ll be dependant on envenom, aka the cp dump

[sacred oyster]

sure, but were talking a lot about the first 10s~ of a pull though when initial bleed spreading. once bleeds are established you are dumping envenoms

[static glacier]

More than 10s

[oak tangle]

How much energy you gonna have boss?

[static glacier]

People pushing keys pull Hella, heck we have algethar back

[untold finch]

Is the play in giga pull dungs like algethar to switch spec to sub? 🤔

[oak tangle]

Not saying you necessarily won’t be spamming CT but isn’t it like 60 energy cost or something, and our max pool is dropping back to 200 or something?

Having that envenom regen come in gonna let you keep spamming ct

[static glacier]

Idk bro, are you a prophet or do you have a crystal ball?

[spice surge]

Why would it? Also algethar isnt really a big pull dungeon

Its literally only the first pull, where 80% of it is just padd

[untold finch]

true just the first part

[untold finch]

I have beta is that good enough?

[oak tangle]

Does ct work like old sub rupture?

[runic hinge]

whole dungeon is pad tbh

[spice surge]

What do you mean

[haughty flicker]

padding vault

[static glacier]

I’d say it has bigger pulls than most dungeons in its season from df

[haughty flicker]

free key fr

[oak tangle]

Replicating shadows application on proximity

[spice surge]

No

[oak tangle]

Damn, forever dots in maggots instead of a target I want

[sacred oyster]

average high key pack size is what youd say, 10-15?

[runic hinge]

67-69

[oak tangle]

Pack size is not the same as meaningful mobs

1 hp mob that counts towards a pack, is an incredibly shit target to spread dots to

[sacred oyster]

pack size dictates how much to spread bleed to, you cant control which it spreads to unless you are choosing to stop spreading if you notice only minor ones are missign it

[oak tangle]

Right, but you pull 15 mobs, and pally / warrior / dh just delete them 2 seconds in, what has all your ct spreading done for you, when you could have been pumping a prio target

[sacred oyster]

sure if it dies quick then yeah sin rogue has major con there. but higher keys stuff actually lives longer

[oak tangle]

And if things are alive longer you’ll need to maintain your energy

[sacred oyster]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/s4wsaE6WVB8bZNKQET92Ko 15 target pack has all bleeds spread in 10s

[oak tangle]

Unless I’m mistaken and we can just perma sustain the energy to ct indefinitely

[sacred oyster]

go over the ability log on that sim

that plays out how i expect things

interesting how it makes it all yellow warning in expert mode lol

had to do that to get it to 15 targets

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/s4wsaE6WVB8bZNKQET92Ko/simc dmg per sec graph looks clean

[oak tangle]

Looking at the ability list, seems fine tbh, it’s no more overcapping than we do with garrotte in IC now

I’m probably not the person to be discussing this though, I know fuck all about how the spec plays atm

[subtle tundra]

meow

[fallow canopy]

woof

[balmy condor]

Average pack size is well below that, there’s probably like 3 pulls total that are above 10 targets

Like I would think the average pack is closer to 5

[sacred oyster]

@balmy condor i took your sim and ran it on quick sim to analyze action logs,
default apl https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3wPQoPHmNz6uqsKVC7kpQe
modified ct prio apl https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t6zRDMeC2RSUjMNn8V86UQ

one thing stood out to me was the delayed use of CD's in the ct prio list. were delaying use of cds until we've hit 20% agi bonus from scent of blood
so i ran a diff one on default APL but delayed CDs until bleeds are all spread, so it dumps still but w/o popping CDs until all are spread, and that is an increase yeah but still less than ct prio
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oHZtcFJsxnEFVH1oeBMvAd

This def changes my flow knowing this as ive always popped CDs earlier

Though im actually confused wtf is even making the APL delay CDs in my CT prio apl.

[haughty flicker]

i think average pack size is 6-7

[balmy condor]

Though im actually confused wtf is even making the APL delay CDs in my CT prio apl.

deathmark checks for envenom uptime

[sacred oyster]

ohhh

k that makes sense

[solar wyvern]

Whispyr since ur here, I tried 2x scent no apex 4 and while ur pack dam is pretty good the boss dps is deffffinitely lackluster. probably only worth it if u can consistently keep 5 ruptures running

[balmy condor]

yeh, expected

[solar wyvern]

ye but was a fun little experiment

like -8k boss dps tho xdd

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WQA69ZaLdFv8cP14?fight=last&type=damage-done&pull=3&source=4

if u wanna investigate

[balmy condor]

I'll add it to my stuff

[sacred oyster]

i suspect a huge portion of the dmg increase from ctprio APL is from reaching the 20% AGI bonus faster.

[balmy condor]

yeah probably

[sacred oyster]

does that AGI bonus retro apply to already applied bleeds?

[balmy condor]

ofc

[sacred oyster]

they could have coded it in a way it wasnt. ie if the total dmg is calculated at application time and stored in the debuff, retro applying it requires them to check the players current stats each tick (slower performance doing that)

[balmy condor]

yeah but that would be a snapshot

[sacred oyster]

and @balmy condor are you redoing everything on evoker for wowhead too lol? just noticed recommended just suddenly flipped and recall you mentioned that the other day didnt you. or wait that was warlock wasnt it.

[balmy condor]

what

[sacred oyster]

you mentioned sims being broken for warlock the other day, wondered if you was helping evoker too

[balmy condor]

that was in shadowlands

[sacred oyster]

as evoker was broken and suddenly got fixed same time you said that

[balmy condor]

I fixed warlock sims in sepulcher

[spice surge]

Aka 4 years ago

[sacred oyster]

oh i didnt realize you was referencing the past that conversation

as warlock literally was broken for prepatch until that day you said it, so i thought you had part in fixing it

[balmy condor]

nah

tc's just don't do anything for prepatch

I think maybe monk? just completely disabled their sims for prepatch

[sacred oyster]

warlock and evoker was full broken until recentl. sucks though for players who are trying to just enjoy last bit of TWW as like my whole group just came back to the game from years to decades of being away, so were still actively doing TWW stuff.

was trying to help other friends with warlock and evoker and couldnt with sims being down, but thankfully up now

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean

it's just not worth the effort

[jade igloo]

[balmy condor]

an un-tuned patch that's also giga fucking nerfed into the ground

like yeh I'm not going to spend an afternoon min-maxing patchwerk ST sims when the relevant mythic bosses they would apply to die in under a minute :P

[static glacier]

ngl recently i was annoyed sv hunt sims weren't done

and like their tcs had no pins about buffs / nerfs and the talent or item implications (sv wanted two 1h daggers instead of 2h)

[runic hinge]

Can you stop forcing bleed build on us by not min maxing sims

[static glacier]

I get that some people cba during prepatch but it's such a drastic difference in class discord user experience

with all due respect to the involved parties, this is an individual occurence

[thorn thorn]

🧂

[static glacier]

bro im just tryna use the best gear for dimmy boosts

and talents and shit

[thorn thorn]

The ones that look the best

[static glacier]

bc it does come down to dps with so few actual dps playing + mistake deaths

[thorn thorn]

boss gonna die in 2 minutes anyway

who care

[static glacier]

its a boost, you wipe

[haughty flicker]

bro just press boomstick

[thorn thorn]

ya just press boomstick

[static glacier]

i do, sv dmg is nuts rn

[thorn thorn]

ya

just shush and press the boomstick lil bro

[static glacier]

i did before too tbh

sv has felt great for a while to me now

I wish it was a rogue spec

it even uses 2 daggers ffs

[thorn thorn]

Spec feeling great

Couldnt be sub

[static glacier]

KEKW

bro why u gotta hit em where it hurts

it does dmg while being chill, theres worse outcomes xdd

[thorn thorn]

Ok look im just saying

Whispyr educated me on the state of sub

And lowkey they just need to scrap this version of sub and try again

[static glacier]

this says it all

kekw

[thorn thorn]

Its actually so cooked

[static glacier]

thats how you know sub is doomed

[thorn thorn]

I woudnt wish the current state of sub on anyone

[static glacier]

when it's WHISPYR saying it

ye bro its like fury warrior but easier somehow]

[thorn thorn]

Ya its like fury warrior but with more headache than fury lmao

[static glacier]

i think its gotta be the easiest spec now

i see 0 headache anymore

what headaches you having homie

[latent kernel]

It actually has the opposite effect where it makes my head numb

[thorn thorn]

headache of how terribly designed it is

[static glacier]

wapples knows, tbh though it lets me really take charge of watching and calling mechanics / kicks a lot easier to do well

compared to say tww s2 outlaw

god knows having to do constant danger assessments to press arguably your best buttons every 20 secs was beyond cursed

in addition to one of the most convoluted prio lists in tww

[royal lantern]

its insane how the spec is dumbed down to such a degree

and at the same time still has headache talent tooltips

[static glacier]

ngl killing spree told me to just not give a fuck and press on cd (unless it's 100% death) regardless and laugh at deaths

[royal lantern]

like, reading the apex talents just made me think ".....huh?" at the first time

[static glacier]

did you want more shadow clones with your shadow craft?

[thorn thorn]

I still do get it after it was explained to me

[balmy condor]

Added Stealth as an optional trackable buff in Cooldown Manager.

JA HALLO

YOU ADD THE USELESS THING

AND NOT THE APEX

MY NAME IS BLIZZARD

[spice surge]

[coral ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/137430749946052608/1437078700960251914/image0.gif

[gilded oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-funny-animals-answer-the-gif-27574162

[earnest remnant]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[thorn thorn]

Another banger for my collection

[buoyant herald]

I actually appreciate that

Don’t let perfect get in the way of good ❤️

[knotty vapor]

they could so fucking easily just have 1 person for each class sit down and make a proper list of what needs to be in there

and they clearly havent

otherwise this wouldn't be a problem

[haughty flicker]

or like

just let us choose

[spice surge]

Thats probably what theyre doing right now tbf

Last minute and all that

[dry pawn]

How dare you?

[urban fern]

Anyone else have issues with transmogging Kingslayers and then it getting stuck? Multiple outfits have been plagued by this shit and no matter how many times I try to change them it reverts back or messes up later lol

[thorn thorn]

did you tmog both slots or just one

[urban fern]

I don't know what I did originally tbh but I have tried unequipping one, swapping slots, everything I could possibly imagine

[thorn thorn]

There is some weirdness with dual wield legion appearances that forces them to be the leggo if even one of them is set to it but it doesnt happen all the time

If you set both to another appearance it should fix

[urban fern]

that's what I thought too 🙁

I've spent like 5k over the last week trying to fix it

Like how does this even happen lol they're not even the same mog and they're set to something totally different

[prime hull]

unholy dk cant track their debuff in the essential section because the ability that applies it (outbreak) differs from their debuff name (virulent plague)

imagine you couldnt track rupture

except on nameplates

to be honest i like the cooldown manager more than my previous UI because its so consistent between classes and i have more fps now, but some things are very infuriating about it

[solar wyvern]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Wh4tMTR1yPXxCVr9?fight=4&type=damage-done&target=8

Prio damage!!!@

[lethal turtle]

Copium

Reroll

Tell my boy hawwkdh wutsup

[ocean shell]

hey, so what do you do when mark bugs out as assa?

[thorn thorn]

Cry at losing 20% of your damage

[ocean shell]

so in tww, couldn't you vanish to reapply it? I'm hearing that's no longer possible?

so you just do shit damage until it magically (or doesn't) come back?

[spice surge]

It's applied by garrote now

[ocean shell]

so the vanish trick works for assa?

[spice surge]

But if you already have a mark up, it won't apply it

No

[ocean shell]

so the only way to get rid of it is for it to time out or it dies?

[spice surge]

Or finish enough to get rid of the stacks and get darkest night yes

[ocean shell]

what do you mean finish to get rid of the stacks? use two more finishers for it to finish its cycle and then the next garrote applies it?

[spice surge]

If you do not have a mark up

[ocean shell]

so if mark is on something you can't target or kill at that moment, you're fucking hosed?

[spice surge]

Garrote or shadowstrike applies the mark

Correct

[thorn thorn]

Oh right I forgor thats how it works now

[ocean shell]

why do they still have ds again?

[solar wyvern]

I had my mark bug out right before a gigantic pull so i was just -12 talents

[proven jasper]

they dont

[ocean shell]

like this is so fucking stupid

[proven jasper]

ds only exists if you recognize it exists, just live in ignorance

[solar wyvern]

Remember not to use DN on a dying mob!

[thorn thorn]

FYI it was worse

It used to be if your mark vanished you were just fucked until you could stealth or vanish

[spice surge]

Ye now you just relogg and it's fine

[ocean shell]

how is this any better? lol I am genuinely confused

[thorn thorn]

But now the problem only mostly exists since you can at least constantly apply the mark now just not move it

[thorn thorn]

Is this a meme or

[ocean shell]

DN is the buff you get once you "consume" the mark right?

[thorn thorn]

Well now you can at least reapply it instantly if it gets munched by something

But if you misapply it

Then its jover

[spice surge]

It often bugs out

[proven jasper]

💀

[thorn thorn]

[spice surge]

And you literally can't reapply any mark

Until you relogg

[proven jasper]

god i wish they would

[thorn thorn]

[proven jasper]

start from scratch

On ds

[ocean shell]

so it sounds like play FB unless it's like 20% behind

[thorn thorn]

Thats funny as hell actually

[proven jasper]

please

[spice surge]

Because the game thinks you have a mark on something (like if a mob runs away or something and doesn't really die)

You can't apply a new one, since it thinks you already have one active elsewhere

[thorn thorn]

[spice surge]

Or like if the mobs are evading while you garrote

[thorn thorn]

thats lowkenuinely funny as hell

[spice surge]

Because tank pathing or whatever

[thorn thorn]

wait evasion causes it too

[spice surge]

That happens

[thorn thorn]

so glad im a FB gamer

does sub play ds or trickster

[lone pasture]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/788104389008818196/1472399980861063269/summonmecha.gif

[spice surge]

Same happens in pvp if somebody immunes your mark

[ocean shell]

wait, so to get back to what Charrend said, once you gain the DN buff and there are only low hp units around, is the play as assa to just hold your dick until the pack dies to not fuck up the mark any more?

[spice surge]

You just can't apply a new one

[thorn thorn]

Ok good cuz I like trickster

[uneven plume]

You know what doesn’t go away? Hunters mark

[visual sun]

hunters mark fade when the mob dies, random streamer dps tier list are forever

[thorn thorn]

@fallow canopy @haughty flicker

[fallow canopy]

[haughty flicker]

[thorn thorn]

[severe meadow]

[knotty vapor]

is the current beta cycle what we're getting for early access?

[west swallow]

i havent paid attention to anything wow related in like 3 months are we dooming or gaming for midnight

[jolly stirrup]

Hallo ich bin Posh, wer bist du?

[hazy helm]

Current beta cycle is actually behind live. So probably not.

[knotty vapor]

im not gonna ask how that works so aiite, sounds good

[hazy helm]

The big tuning patch they did on the 17th applied to pre patch, not beta. They’re not tuning beta anymore. Thurr

Because naturally, with all the gigantic changes they don’t want us to be able to test them out at max level with apex talents. It’s cool

[stiff fern]

Beta got updated to be inclusive of those changes

[balmy condor]

yah can confirm the tuning patch on the 17th applied to both prepatch and beta

they're on the same patch

[knotty vapor]

so assuming this is the tuning we'll be playing with, are we dooming or gaming, as asked by the other individual earlier?

I've been out of the loop for a couple weeks

[balmy condor]

atm, doom, the tuning is kinda scuffed still

we got like 3 more tuning passes before content

[knotty vapor]

hm

[balmy condor]

stuff like brewmaster being a mid tier dps spec or random caster spec doing 35% more than other specs

will get tuned

not really a big concern atm

[knotty vapor]

please tell me u just made that up now

and brew isn't actually that

[balmy condor]

it is

[knotty vapor]

[balmy condor]

are you doomed cause you're going to get out speed-leveled by a brew or what

[buoyant herald]

It’s not like blizz are looking at it that thinking yep that’s about right, it’s just not fixed yet

Could they be quicker? Maybe

Will it matter? Extremely
Doubtful

[balmy condor]

yeh I mean until the actual content is out it just don't matter ya know

they got time

[visual sun]

im dooming because the streamer i follow last uploaded 3 weeks ago 🙁

[balmy condor]

they do this every season

[buoyant herald]

Literally every season

[balmy condor]

I have good reason

soon

[buoyant herald]

Smooth

[jade abyss]

3h hour video incoming ?

[balmy condor]

nein

[jade abyss]

:(

[jolly stirrup]

Thats because its gonna be 4 hours

[balmy condor]

you're just asking me to stream at that point

[elfin flame]

whispyr i hope ur doing good my friend

i hope the dooming i have incurred hasnt been too rough

on you

and ppl that come here saying "is assa doom?"

[buoyant herald]

They’ll do that no matter what to be fair

[balmy condor]

not as bad as it has been before

still a little annoying but like

it's aight

I'm just a grumpy boomer tc

[jolly stirrup]

You are getting the hint

[elfin flame]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/697995591921172532.gif?

omw to doom about assa

[jolly stirrup]

<- Shindig dooming about assa

[balmy condor]

had you doomed just as hard about sub I would be significantly less upset

especially like "where funnel" and sub is just bp spam

idk

it happens

tier video sandbagging

what can you do

won't matter in 3 weeks anyway

no hard feelings from me

[elfin flame]

i did miss on some sub stuff for sure i concede

i actually like sub damage profile as deathstalker tho

[buoyant herald]

So did the devs hayoooo

[elfin flame]

feels good mix of aoe with prio

[balmy condor]

but the prio is worse than assa

[jolly stirrup]

As a still WoW noob, what does prio damage mean?

[balmy condor]

imagine 10 mobs and one mini boss

damage to the mini boss is prio

[jolly stirrup]

I imagine

I see

Sooo Prio Damage while still outputting damage to the Mobs?

[buoyant herald]

Yeah. Like compared to Devoker which is almost purely aoe equal pad

[jolly stirrup]

I see

Thanks

[elfin flame]

ok i can believe that assa might still have more prio, but it's more so that sub, a spec that is either choosing between ST spenders or AoE spenders, now has a pretty solid middle ground with DS

good AoE and good prio

or like

pressing BP doesn't feel like im griefing in aoe

if we need to kill prio target

so just seems w quality of life

BTW i would feel the same about assa (if caustic worked with singular)

but it doesn't

so

erm

[balmy condor]

yah but caustic sucks now

[old thistle]

caustic is not as good as it was but you can spread dots much easier now

[runic hinge]

What’s caustic % of the overall now?

[elfin flame]

touche

[balmy condor]

like 9-11%

[pliant remnant]

[jolly stirrup]

Is Env now or main DPS? we finally Envenom, the Spec™?

[balmy condor]

this is like generally what it looks like

[runic hinge]

Was singular even that good? I mean it’s 5%. Idk. So if caustic doesn’t interact anymore you’ve lost half a percent of singular focus damage or something. Idk I’m not math man but like seems like a big meme

[haughty flicker]

Holy

Garret 1 Garret 2 and Garret 3 all doing damage

Wtf man its over

[jolly stirrup]

Garrote the Spec™

[haughty flicker]

I do like bleeds

[pliant remnant]

FUCKING 40K

IT'S FUCKING OVER DUDE

[jolly stirrup]

That was my Damage Profile Yesterday Dimmi Kill

[waxen oyster]

2023-2026 we had a good run

of caustic

[balmy condor]

ct 1 ct 2 ct 3

[waxen oyster]

Yeah but i dont have exsang anymore to press

and rewrite my exsang dot a gcd later

[solar wyvern]

I think assa may have some of the best prio in the game rn tbh.

It just requires 10 mob pulls

Which a lot of the optimized beta route have now kinda

[civic trellis]

bad spatter = good prio
got it

[solar wyvern]

Its more like, bleeds being strong = more prio. If spatter worked assa would be OP

For singular*

[civic trellis]

true

[solar wyvern]

For reference

Around 40% of groups prio on this mob

Or 35 w.e

[elfin flame]

I actually don't know what good prio damage looks like on beta generally speaking

Somebody in chat asked me about that earlier in stream and idk what the standard is rn

[solar wyvern]

From what i can see

Arcane is doing about 2/3 assa prio

And demo in cds

Hard to quantify really but ye

They just have the benefit of doing insane aoe as well

Kinda like bm/fdk last season

Not havoc funnel but good prio

[shy axle]

and its prio because all the bleed dmg gets directed into the maintarget with singular + the env you butter into them or what

[burnt juniper]

@solar wyvern guess who just set up sin and tested for 15 mins without poisons on

THIS GUY

i was like "there is no way sin is this slow now, this is crazy"

[cunning needle]

what a lack of weak auras does to a man

[agile wedge]

okay something broke my ui and i only have the prd active. did anyone had the same?

for some reason cooldownmanager, blizzard std, duplicates my stuff and throws lua error

[burnt juniper]

my strong auras

[small cairn]

Overall?

[solar wyvern]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Wh4tMTR1yPXxCVr9?fight=4&type=damage-done

Granted my mark bugged out for the entire pull before garfrost (like 14 mobs)

Good spec love it

[spice surge]

Banger hero talent init bruv

[fickle coral]

why is assa so much less hectic to play than outlaw, yikes

[tame atlas]

Yep I've also had this a few times

I turned all addons off and reloaded and later put them on one by one and now it's gone for me

[agile wedge]

i solved it by just putting rupture off the bar saving and putting it back

then it was resolved directly

[tame atlas]

For me that didn't work 😅

[agile wedge]

weird ^^

[winged quail]

So glad I had to ditch my WA pack that has worked for years to install addons that sometimes choose to work

[agile wedge]

so you never needed to update your WAs? impressive

[sharp viper]

surely fatebound will be viable in m+

[winged quail]

I don't think my poison WA had changed in forever

[solar wyvern]

Ye all they have do is buff fatebound spatter by 22%. 40% spatter sounds like it could be good!

[frosty cedar]

remove spatter

[severe meadow]

Better overalls from DS?

[solar wyvern]

By virtue of moving the keyforward yes, actual number? No probably not

[severe meadow]

I made a friend

[spice surge]

Was expecting bobr, that was not a bobr

[severe meadow]

The property manager is so scared of it, she won’t even come outside lol

[nova aspen]

[glass viper]

Caught up on the tierlist now, was enjoying the video until that guy put Arcane in B tier 🤦‍♂️

[thick sigil]

God damn if we playing deathstalker again i might finally give up completely on my rogue

[spice surge]

Turns out a spec gets worse when you nerf its damage by 15%

[sacred oyster]

well, still prob tops sin rogue? honestly would prefer them get all specs closer and let them vary in playstyle and make skill purely the divider on dps. its dumb an en experiened 'meta' class can out dps an experienced 'bad tier' class.

[chrome meadow]

florida?

[severe meadow]

SC

close to Florida tho

[chrome meadow]

glad im european tho

im scared of these big lizards

like u have to assume in every water could be an alligator chillin

saw some tiktoks of some guy roaming the everglades at night and just yoinking every dangerous animal possible

[tight ginkgo]

is it just me or does have bleed-related spell icons coming out of its mouth

[shy heron]

It does lol

[quasi pine]

The old crimson tempest in there too

[tight ginkgo]

the man needs help fr

[quasi pine]

he's one shiv away to die with all thooses bleeds

[solar wyvern]

Tbh sub with windfury bshout does arcane mage level damage in my experience

Arcane prio is also way worse now

[sacred oyster]

i just wanna play sin lol. i cba dealing with extra positional requirements of sub. and combat (im old, ima keep calling it combat) just feels diff now than the old days. plus lazy to get swords.

[solar wyvern]

Well in my experience also sin does crazy prio so maybe its a good slot for phys comp, maybe not defacto meta

[spice surge]

"extra positional requirement"

[sacred oyster]

does sub not need to stay behind target still?

[crude helm]

I mean for what 20% more backstab damage?

[sacred oyster]

do people just ignore that lol?

[spice surge]

Yes, 20% of like 2%

Assa needs to stay behind to avoid parry anyway

[sacred oyster]

ah

[solar wyvern]

I mean, its mostly used for findweakness uptime

To be behind

[spice surge]

And that doesnt really matter now anyway

Because you dance more frequently

[solar wyvern]

But even then, its like 4 seconds

[sacred oyster]

what do you mean by this? not aware of what that means

[solar wyvern]

Ye

[sacred oyster]

the mob parrying your melee attacks?

[crude helm]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-souls-parry-gwyn-boss-gif-19051216

[spice surge]

Raid bosses have a 3% to avoid (parry) attacks when attacking from the front

[solar wyvern]

And some dungeon bosses

Like garfrost

[sacred oyster]

whats the conal look like on that, side good enough?

it makes sense just never considered that before

but wouldnt that simply be true for all melee? not just sin rogue.

[spice surge]

Its true for all melee yes

That isnt trickster

[solar wyvern]

Its like id say 150 degree cone for parry?

[sacred oyster]

150 O.O

[solar wyvern]

Idk the actual number

Thats just vibes

[sacred oyster]

thats pretty wide lol

[solar wyvern]

Well like for example, on dimensius, if u are on the far left of the platform, you are technically hitting from behind

Since hes so big

[sacred oyster]

but ill keep that in mind, but yeah some fights gotta stack so cant do much there. though, are tanks not able to keep salad bar facing away? every one ive done seems tank stays with the group then turns the boss when the conal aoe happens.

[solar wyvern]

Idk in mythic theyre swapping off on mechanics to avoid being double hit by conquere

So thats why he turns sometimes

Pribably early taunt

[sacred oyster]

everyone ive done its felt like the conal starts by aiming at the group, then the tank turns it away, as was taught to stay still and trust the tank will move it

[tight ginkgo]

the taunt timing for the combo on mythic is tight and order of frontal/soak is random set idk

[solar wyvern]

Ye thats just the second tank taking threat

And he cant stand other side

Cause then hed be frontalled

So its just a dance and a spin

[sacred oyster]

ive not done it on mythic though, every pug has failed at araz 🙁

ima do another mythic pug tonight

[waxen oyster]

daily reminder of trickster supremacy

parry proof+1h tricks

[glass viper]

Bro it used to be that you HAD to attack from behind or backstab wouldn't work

and Ambush and garrote

[sacred oyster]

thats what i thought

i last played in 2010 lol

[glass viper]

wb

[waxen oyster]

That was a lifetime ago

[glass viper]

Feels like yesterday

[waxen oyster]

backstab worker from the side in mop

👴

[glass viper]

Meh I was combat in MoP so can't really comment

[waxen oyster]

That raid lasted a year you get bored and play other specs

[glass viper]

or just leave entirely

[waxen oyster]

Raidlog enjoyer

[glass viper]

Maybe its rose tinted glasses but I don't remember raid logging being much of a thing back then, certainly not in tbc/wotlk/cata. I didn't feel like i had enough time to do all my things on ONE character let alone alts. Now it's like I have to play 6 different classes just to avoid raid logging

[waxen oyster]

mop was a different game

cata was too long ago and kind of easy

[glass viper]

Easy in what way

[waxen oyster]

content idk

frankly if i played in tbc i wouldnt be playing still though

[shy axle]

it was a product of its time i guess

had fun in every expansion

but i am glad it is modern now

rip backstab doing dmg as sub tho

[waxen oyster]

sub was a pvp spec

until mid mop

[shy axle]

was never a fan of that stigma spec x is pve/pvp only

cata was the first time i really played it in pve because it was good

[waxen oyster]

I do find it funny when classic mains called wow hard

when i knew people in old days who used wow player as an insult

for someone that plays easy mmos

[runic hinge]

Old

[waxen oyster]

ngl i was still fetus status barely

[runic hinge]

[waxen oyster]

i used to bop rogues when they hit killing spree

[glass viper]

Who cares