On a giant dose of Monster
#assassination
grim jay
warm vortex
Trojan horse cat
warm vortex
On a giant dose of Monster
When are we getting Whispyr flavoured monster is my question
grim jay
When are we getting Whispyr flavoured monster is my question
They are still waiting for someone to suck his juice out
For a flavourtest
lilac sonnet
which build we play on PTR right now guys ?
grim jay
Bleed
lilac sonnet
Is there a code on the discord ?
warm vortex
Wowhead
grim jay
There is a code in the guide
warm vortex
They forgot rogue exists, so it had no changes talent wise
Outlaw - A person who has broken the law, especially one who remains at large or is a fugitive
-Oxford Languages defenition of outlaw
Oh
joke ruined :(
sharp sinew
Outlaw rogue not whatever youre talking about
Can we get this dude outta here
Outlaw gang
warm vortex
Im describing what an outlaw is
sharp sinew
winged sun
fatebound is very evry good in ptr
considering kb is bugged still
new build cooked 
same as cleave but drop sc for cb
light mountain
how we lookin'
warm vortex
considering kb is bugged still
Of course it is
Blizzard and their rogue bugs, or bugs in general rather
red schooner
how we lookin'
With my eyes
winged sun
how we lookin'
imo fatebound is rly good
idk whats up with cb but its exploding in dps whenever i press it in heavy aoe
warm vortex
Tbh, i don't think imma main rogue until Acro comes back
orchid pewter
Based but will never happen gg
warm vortex
A man can dream
dire schooner
I know it’s ptr and shit will change constantly. But as of now how far ahead do we think sin is of the other rogue specs in st/aoe?
orchid pewter
A man can dream
Keep it up 👍
light mountain
Im not seeing any in depth supercharge use case in any guides. Is it never optimal to go for a max finisher with supercharge, instead just sending 5/7s? For example, a darkest night, shiv buffed 10combo point envenom has to be more ideal than a 5 or 7 right? or the 1-2 mutilates that bring it to 10 make it not worth?
balmy condor
damage per combo point is linear
the difference between say 5cp and 7cp
is the same as 7 and 9
orchid pewter
Dont think about it and always spend like usual
light mountain
ok so supercharge combo points dont need to be synced with other % dmg buffs
I see they made it more simple than it previously was, but the supercharge combo point is really throwing me off coming from feral druid
red schooner
I see they made it more simple than it previously was, but the supercharge combo...
Just, send 2 shivs in death mark, 1 shiv in lingering, 1 in the subsequent kingsbane and spend combo points as normal. No thinking required
balmy condor
it's legit just "next 2 finishers deal more damage"
red schooner
5 for normal finishers, 7 for darkest night, the supercharged finishers can be ignored
light mountain
7 for darkest night meaning 4combo points + supercharge or 7 naked ya?
not a full combot point bar supercharged
light mountain
maybe im too stupid to play rogue lol
orchid pewter
7 for darkest night meaning 4combo points + supercharge or 7 naked ya?
7 naked
foggy mirage
You spend the same amount, but its auto crit
red schooner
Its irrelevant so for me, its easier to just stick to the 5/7 rule and straight up ignore superchargers
red schooner
No point trying to calculate playing around it
light mountain
right its auto crit and 30% more damage on darkest night so wouldnt you want your beefiest envenom since the next envenom will not have those modifiers
red schooner
Just, 5/7
red schooner
This spec is easy, don't think, do you have darkest night up? If no, 5+, if yes, envenom on 7. Ignore superchargers
They just exist
light mountain
alright
maiden sierra
Thats it, bring back og echoing reprimand, just to fuck with people more
light mountain
thanks all!
maiden sierra
light mountain
my vague memory of that was every other combo point was supercharge right
so you were playing some builder minigame
balmy condor
Thats it, bring back og echoing reprimand, just to fuck with people more
og echoing reprimand wasn't overcomplicated as much as supercharger, might be onto something
light mountain
waiting for whispyrs fatebound video 🙂
maiden sierra
Me too
light mountain
no pressure ofc
maiden sierra
Its the only thing keeping me away from jumping at the large table saw at work
balmy condor
it's braindead easy I legit don't know how to make it longer than 5min
maiden sierra
Ask dratty
orchid pewter
You can dance a couple minutes
balmy condor
most of the time will be spent just reading talents
maiden sierra
Godbless max knows how to yap
light mountain
you may have answered already but does Araz's Ritual Forge Araz's Ritual Forge primary stat reduced by 10% help fatebound?
balmy condor
help yes, but not enough
light mountain
sad
maiden sierra
Oh yeah has the new trinket tuning make fatebound not use 2 min trinkets?
Or is that one 2min trinket still overtuned?
balmy condor
it's a 2min trinket that's reasonably like 40-50% stronger than the 90s trinkets
and then it got nerfed by 10%
so idk
you do the math
subtle kiln
it's braindead easy I legit don't know how to make it longer than 5min
Add in some good bowling stories
maiden sierra
We will prob get 1 more trinket tuning next week before season start
indigo epoch
We will prob get 1 more trinket tuning next week before season start
Had one 10 hours ago
Doubt we see another
maiden sierra
Had one 10 hours ago
Doubt we see another
https://www.wowhead.com/news/datamin...
"More"
And why doubt it when it has happened multiple times before
This very patch first week of the season blizz released trinket tuning
nova aspen
lime vessel
Sin still good next patch?
slow snow
How’s the ST feel? I havent had a chance to test yet
winged sun
How’s the ST feel? I havent had a chance to test yet
3m st
solar wyvern
So still dogshit LMAO
slow snow
Hm that’s not very good but i guess it’s manageable if you are blowing up packs. It might require funnel id imagine
For it to have decent boss dmg
Im curious to see how poison build plays and if the ST is better or what
lusty kraken
it's a 2min trinket that's reasonably like 40-50% stronger than the 90s trinkets
fatebound could play 2 active trinkets, no? ritual forge + nether prism
maiden sierra
Rob, we meet again
lusty kraken
hello fellow cat man
main bridge
Meeting of The Robs
maiden sierra
white lance
maiden sierra
Dis a robbery
jaunty sky
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
lusty kraken
<a:nope:585736277991882752>
why not
balmy condor
how are you getting around shared cd
lusty kraken
you don't use them at the same time
actually no
I'm dumb
so you use ritual forge on the first DM
nether prism on the 2nd DM
then ritual forge again on 3rd
and so on
balmy condor
and this is supposedly better than just using one regular 1:30 on use that just automatically lines up with your dm but doesn't cost 2 slots
coral ibex
but trinkets aren't good if you get 50% uptime on them
why not just have a passive trinket too
lusty kraken
idk, didn't you say these trinkets are better than the shitty 1:30 trinkets we got from m+?
balmy condor
you could just equip 2 trinkets
instead of equipping 1 trinket across 2 slots
and pretending like you're not throwing away a whole trinket slot
lusty kraken
balmy condor
passive trinkets are valuable
analog glade
timber pawn
Did the Nerf to ritual forge do anything or just too small?
distant plinth
Will you be able to upgrade the belt next week as well?
wooden radish
Did the Nerf to ritual forge do anything or just too small?
still strong
balmy condor
yeah you can always retroactively upgrade it
distant plinth
Havent been able to upgrade it to max yet, so wondering if you can still upgrade it
distant plinth
yeah you can always retroactively upgrade it
Isnt this delve thingy a 11.1.5 seasonal thingy? Thats why im asking
Overcharged delve thingy
balmy condor
maybe I guess
I mean it's not like you really need the belt either
it gets replaced week 1 from random m+ belts regardless
worst case you just have a shitty belt for a couple of dungeons
distant plinth
Okay cheers king!
chrome mirage
What ilvl are we replacing the belt, or sim angle
worthy prism
Guys, do you know what build Casual with Yoda were running in keys?
shy axle
what does deathstalker 2pc buff exactly? every node in the talenttree?
balmy condor
if it's a damage node, it's buffed
shy axle
ty whisp
snow hamlet
Isnt this delve thingy a 11.1.5 seasonal thingy? Thats why im asking
You can complete the "upgrade mission" in normal delves in S3
main bridge
Also level 1 delves
humble verge
so, assa is still good even without buffs it looks like from casuals stream - but then again he knows how to minmax
peak pagoda
it takes like 20 minutes to get it to max lvl on lvl 1 delves lol
balmy condor
so, assa is still good even without buffs it looks like from casuals stream - bu...
we just got buffed?
balmy condor
??????????
solar wyvern
just when I thought I was gonna play sub for a season
these gosh darn devs real me back in
humble verge
??????????
you know i dont check wowhead
balmy condor
bro lives under a rock
solar wyvern
also ive been palying full cleave build a bit
balmy condor
yeah don't check wowhead, don't check pins
solar wyvern
and its actually not too bad guys
warm vortex
It's also pinned
humble verge
go to bed
balmy condor
don't consume any content at all
humble verge
i checked the pins
warm vortex
Haha whispie jynx
balmy condor
so you didn't check pins then
pliant remnant
I MEAN LIKE I MEAN LIKE I MEAN LIKE
peak pagoda
wwhispyr are you getting flooded by pms yet?
gritty laurel
that would be "i checked one pin" not "i checked the pins"
balmy condor
wwhispyr are you getting flooded by pms yet?
yes that's why we have !fotm and the newest pin
harsh anchor
@humble verge are you expecting? Do you know the gender
pliant remnant
Whispyr sitting hours at his computer, sweating over Wowhead guides
and his Ravenholdt homies don't even read past the one last pin
peak pagoda
and his Ravenholdt homies don't even read past the one last pin
correct
pliant remnant
ay caramba
humble verge
<@191982482642436097> are you expecting? Do you know the gender
honestly
i dont want us to become fotm
we "barely" have been the last 2 seasons but
scarlet orbit
Somehow for as good we were at least s1 it was not that bad
pure moth
But people think the buffs and fixes put us that high up for fotm status?
Or people just cooked
humble verge
people are just looking for their next fix
wooden radish
!fotm
prisma monolithBOT
FOTM Info
-
Fatebound is not playable in any AoE situation, and ESPECIALLY not in Mythic+. Don't bother.
-
Tuning is nowhere near done and realistically won't be until mid-September; unless you enjoy playing rogue there is no point in you rerolling at this time, we don't bring anything impactful (e.g big aoe stops/party buff) to the group
-
PTR sheets and PTR sims are borderline misinformation with how rapidly things are changing and most sims are not currently updated at this time. Again, this will fix itself as we get deeper into the patch and things solidify, but judging a reroll off of PTR tier lists and random sims or seeing one guy pump super hard on a stream is not indicative of anything.
wooden radish
But people think the buffs and fixes put us that high up for fotm status?
people will just flock to the specs with the most dps as fotm
willow mason
Hey, anyone know how to make deathstalker mark debuff bigger on plater? Want it to be easy to see
wooden radish
assa right now probably good case for that with bleed build but tuning is ongoing so rashly making that decision now might bite them in the 'ass' later 🙂
winged sun
🙂
thorn lynx
@balmy condor hi 👋
wooden radish
Hey, anyone know how to make deathstalker mark debuff bigger on plater? Want it ...
you can edit specific auras and scale them differently i believe
just have to find it in the settings
wooden radish
gold is a better colour 🙂
humble verge
no its piss colour
wooden radish
piss is gold
humble verge
sorry 😔
humble verge
clipped and shipped
wooden radish
anyways you cant be colorist!
wooden radish
every color deserves freedom and acknowledgement
humble verge
grave osprey
Better than this weird magenta color
wooden radish
cannot be biased towards color
grave osprey
Deathstalker Outlaw would be interesting
wooden radish
just replace fatebound with swashbuckler, and give Assa Swashbuckler, fast pace pirate poison stabber
grave osprey
Id never play another class
pure moth
To much yellow here..
grave osprey
Jealous?
fleet patrol
And early indication how much sin will sim for now?
restive nova
I’ve noticed that even with similar casts in wcl my envenoms seem to do less avg dmg than other top performers? Is there something I’m missing outside of pressing at max cp?
winged sun
why the fuck are you yellow now
outlaw > assa
outlaw love i
opposite this read
way
main bridge
I’ve noticed that even with similar casts in wcl my envenoms seem to do less avg...
If you have logs that would be helpful in analyzing issues
grave osprey
Zero is a gigabrained chad wym?
winged sun
Zero is a gogabrained chad wym?
humble verge
me and zero brain
shy axle
i like blue 
grave osprey
Gold is better
shy axle
spice spire
Zero is a gogabrained chad wym?
Zero is a gogabrained chad wym?
grave osprey
Goga > Giga
restive nova
If you have logs that would be helpful in analyzing issues
Maybe my casts seem low but I feel like I don’t have very high down time
main bridge
i think people have said WA is good - might be worth looking at https://wowanalyzer.com/report/RgcB98naNvrL7kzH/28-Mythic+One-Armed+Bandit+-+Kill+(4:56)/Antne/standard/overview
restive nova
Hmm ok
main bridge
doesn't seem to list many issues for you
teal lark
guys what PTR build are you using? found nothing in the pins
teal lark
okay, makes sense
nova aspen
winged sun
fatebound build is good
lots of builds are decent
once they fix kingsbane fb will do rly good and it'll be a very well viable build
brazen ivy
who gave zero autism and a learning disability
winged sun
so im pretty sure it'll be one of the popularily chosen builds over bleed build for whoever wants a change of gameplay or potentially more pure st
its doing explosive aoe dmg with cb
which is kinda cool
balmy condor
compared to deathstalker?
winged sun
yes
maybe in sims it looks like that
but i dont think thats true in real gameplay at all
balmy condor
uh huh...'
winged sun
im yet to test arterial aswell, its doing 30-50m in big aoe same as DS bleed build
most overalls are quite similar
balmy condor
I'm just gonna wait for things to actually be tuned tbh
winged sun
idk how deathmark should be used with the bugged kingsbane, i found that using it half way was good but once its fixed that minmax wont be there anyway
i assume it should stay at 50 stacks after expiring
balmy condor
if fatebound is pulling equal overalls with current tuning then deathstalker is actually straight gutter garbage
shy axle
what did you use instead of arterial in bleed build? thought that ones just the goto
balmy condor
like the math doesn't add up
shy axle
ttb?
winged sun
bleed build is heavily broken in premade groups
winged sun
its doing way too much funnel dmg
winged sun
im not sure i follow
assa has funnel wdym
bleed build just has less than cleave
thats all i was saying
tight ginkgo
forest nacelle
not this topic again xD
shy axle
the funnel is just from your bleed up and mark + Sf buffed by set?
winged sun
<:ICANT:1153505050056982619>
?
lean plover
i disagree
winged sun
its literally one of the worst funnel builds out of all funnel specs
forest nacelle
the only thing i can say i like about fatebound in aoe is that there is no mark management.....
winged sun
idk why ur all acting like arcane and other funnel specs dont exist
lean plover
but u said most other classes
winged sun
not really sin just does alot of aoe atm
balmy condor
it's too early for this man
harsh anchor
Round 2???
balmy condor
way too much funnel = worse than most
lean plover
Most classes specified
balmy condor
I'm just gonna go back to bed man wtf
winged sun
ye u guys push keys lets talk about high keys again
forest nacelle
sleep sounds good.
winged sun
it still does giga low funnel in normal groups
marsh fjord
Zeross caught once again
winged sun
caught at nothing
winged sun
idk why singular focus is doing 10% of our dps today in ptr
in live its doing 3%
something prob got fked up in the update
tuning weren't out yesterday btw
fyi
lean plover
doesnt mastery buff it as well?
winged sun
any aura buff buffs singular focus by like double afaik
light mountain
is plague damage poison damage
solar wyvern
Its definietly doing wayyyy more than its supposed to
lean plover
is plague damage poison damage
nature and shadow so yes
bc poison is nature dmg with fancier name
winged sun
singular focus doing 10% doesn't make sense to me ngl
light mountain
bc blizz doesnt want to confuse anyone
lean plover
iirc theres 2 types of chaos dmg as well so
winged sun
first pull halls my singular is doing 680m to the shard
its doing 10% for me btw maybe stats affect it alotg
alot*
subtle kiln
Typical assa buff. Give the 3% and it turns into a 10% overall gain. 
winged sun
or shiv management aswell idk
winged sun
oh i see
balmy condor
7% on that pull seems reasonable with tier set
winged sun
live build is prob dismissed rn with singular doing 10%
dont think anyone will be playing cleave again
shell plaza
lean plover
iirc theres 2 types of chaos dmg as well so
yep, it can optionaly include phys and/or holy dmg
winged sun
it was 4% few weeks ago
solar wyvern
I may have over commited and palyed 29% haste bleed tho LOL
winged sun
now its 10% 
marsh fjord
Someone compiled m+ PTR logs and sub is doing better then assa at the moment
winged sun
sub got buffed by 3% right?
marsh fjord
Atleast according to those logs
winged sun
or how much
solar wyvern
5% aura on sub
marsh fjord
lean plover
5% aura, 11% bp, idk how much was the nf+sb change
solar wyvern
yeah and 5% nerf to nimble but now sblades works with it
ended up being neutral iirc
lean plover
5 runs is in no way enough statistical data
lean plover
just no
marsh fjord
Data is data
solar wyvern
brother
fallow canopy
Puddle size population
lean plover
Data is data, and that is bad data
solar wyvern
Could be
winged sun
i abused some spells back then for more dps in ptr
balmy condor
Data is data
"data is data" is why we have PTR spreadsheets and people compiling unfinished sims btw
winged sun
but it was few items and weird interactions
marsh fjord
"data is data" is why we have PTR spreadsheets and people compiling unfinished s...
Yes sir
lean plover
expected more from a guy named numbers
winged sun
@solar wyvern btw
marsh fjord
expected more from a guy named numbers
My name isn’t numbers because im good with numbers haha
winged sun
i wonder if the 50 to 60% on tier set is much bigger than what it says
winged sun
doesnt make sense that singular focus is buffed by that much
solar wyvern
Im honestly not sure, that 7% screenshot was before the buffs
solar wyvern
its very crazy
winged sun
will be rly good in m+
solar wyvern
thats a minor node on a hero talent LOL
vernal gate
Assa competitive in m+ now?
winged sun
ye for sure
lean plover
Singular is 5%+ buffed by tier(+mastery i dont remember if it does)
harsh anchor
Not for long
solar wyvern
This singular on broodtwister...
harsh anchor
RIP sin rogue
solar wyvern
man what a time we could have lived
rotund oak
Assa competitive in m+ now?
outlaw better,quickly jump the pirate train
winged sun
Singular is 5%+ buffed by tier(+mastery i dont remember if it does)
aura buffs double dip singular focus dmg too
so
marsh fjord
Getting nerfed soon Sadge
solar wyvern
eh doubt
winged sun
nah
we're only op in M+
not raid
ngl tho
singular focus doing this much
might make it op in raid too
idk
solar wyvern
Depends how fast adds die in raid
marsh fjord
I also think that tuning is far from done
winged sun
ofc it is far from done
winged sun
its not wrong to have conversations on current tunings
lean plover
I also think that tuning is far from done
for ptr is done, more will come when patch is live
marsh fjord
its not wrong to have conversations on current tunings
Not saying it is bro
winged sun
i think old builds are gonna be bad
cleave build is giga dogshit in arakara, dawnbreaker
rotund oak
for ptr is done, more will come when patch is live
bold to assume there will be any
winged sun
not to mention it isn't amazing in priory aswell so
rotund oak
well until heroic week tuning that is
solar wyvern
i think we jus tplay sub in dawnbreaker ngl
winged sun
maybe idk
lean plover
you can swap to sub after 2nd boss too
winged sun
nah sub is good on 1st area
rotund oak
winged sun
sin isn't that much better
solar wyvern
Sub is good entire dungeon imo
marsh fjord
You can’t bring funnel on last boss either which sucks
weak cypress
fatebound sim in sheet is correct?
balmy condor
fatebound sim in sheet is correct?
any PTR sims are inherently incorrect
winged sun
all ptr sims are cooked ye
visual sun
do these fotm enjoyers know?
weak cypress
i mean envenom damage is top of the kb
marsh fjord
Don’t tell them
weak cypress
that was wierd
balmy condor
wdym envenom is top of kb
winged sun
cant wait for kb fixes
weak cypress
and using 2min trinket 😄
fringe sierra
What has everyone been testing so far for sin? I've only seen bleed in action
winged sun
@solar wyvern btw
if fatebound kb fix makes it do giga st
we just swap to fatebound
its rly good in dawnbreaker maybe
balmy condor
and using 2min trinket 😄
the 2 min trinket is normal cause that stupid fucking forge is ridiculously op
winged sun
nah all dung
marsh fjord
Are you guys gonna run out and change spec or what
solar wyvern
So whats the theory here, we play cleave build fatebound? bleed? the hybrid stuff we doing o live?
winged sun
running out is diabolical especially in dawnbreaker
marsh fjord
running out is diabolical especially in dawnbreaker
Yeah that’s why I asked 😂
weak cypress
the 2 min trinket is normal cause that stupid fucking forge is ridiculously op
wierd to play with anyways
winged sun
So whats the theory here, we play cleave build fatebound? bleed? the hybrid stuf...
i want to try 2 builds but i also dont want to
basically
solar wyvern
i think thats giga cooked but im happy to hear the theroy
winged sun
the old cleave build ( with garrote )
visual sun
the theory is to just wait
winged sun
and
visual sun
tbh
weak cypress
like sub with 2min trinket cringe af
balmy condor
wierd to play with anyways
how is it weird, you just hold everything for 2 min
winged sun
not bleed
solar wyvern
hmm
solar wyvern
too bad kb isnt actual;ly fixed
winged sun
cuz scent is giga op
solar wyvern
I'd like to see that
golden loom
what are you dropping to fit all that in
winged sun
we'll have to wait and see
hidden torrent
weren't you last in dps on that dawn you did as FB?
winged sun
what are you dropping to fit all that in
slightly weaker lethal dose but what ur getting is execute+a powerful shiv
in theory this will give stronger kingbanes in the longrun
since its giga short cd
balmy condor
benefit from mastery/exectue?
yes
balmy condor
and it spatters
winged sun
since u dont need dashing with blindside etc
balmy condor
it's basically just like envenom
winged sun
slightly weaker lethal dose but what ur getting is execute+a powerful shiv
ambush +1cp instead of 6% energy reduction
on main rogue tree
but ye
golden loom
not playing DTB if the build is KB focused seems weird af tho
solar wyvern
why do u have amp
winged sun
and arterial is kinda op imo
golden loom
idk feels like arterial is useless there
solar wyvern
remov for dashing ig?
winged sun
lemme check maybe sudden demise if i can
novel star
frosty nebula
[Caustic Spatter] it dosent proc every timei use envenom, has it like internal cd or just watin for deadly posion to apply?
winged sun
dashing for sure if im gated
balmy condor
[Caustic Spatter] it dosent proc every timei use envenom, has it like internal c...
as long as the target has caustic spatter, everything will cleave
solar wyvern
[Caustic Spatter] it dosent proc every timei use envenom, has it like internal c...
deadly poison on, are uhitting your main target, is rupture on them, did u mutliate
golden loom
I like the cooking but also it does look like the worst thing I have ever seen
(except my 800k fatebound sim that broke the sim)
balmy condor
inb4 they’re looking at the poison bomb vfx
too smart
you're built so diffy
it's crazy
frosty nebula
ok than im doing it right , its does the most dmg on my overall , btw i did Floodgate 10 to test and i did 3.3mil overall as 674 , i feel like its a bit low
novel star
😭
solar wyvern
ok than im doing it right , its does the most dmg on my overall , btw i did Floo...
things dont live very long in 10s so your spatter will naturally look lower
golden loom
gg
balmy condor
maybe I'm healing
novel star
we lost our way..
gritty laurel
whispyr is healing? quick, start the tea discussion but use PTR logs to justify it
royal lantern
I didn't even remember that people think caustic has a visual
i thought people where joking when they said the amidrasil set had a visual
novel star
i’ve been trying to ignore the zeross talents
tight ginkgo
hidden torrent
it's zeross cooked talent build
golden loom
its not gated to sudden demise but idk if sudden demise is better
I mean if you are playing arterial you for sure want SD
novel star
@balmy condor post a cat
wooden star
Yeah especially with tier it lasting and extra 3 seconds kinda big. Feeds into itself
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> post a cat
wooden star
Stronger than before
golden loom
Yeah especially with tier it lasting and extra 3 seconds kinda big. Feeds into i...
well that wouldnt happen in that build
cause its fatebound
wooden star
Oh
novel star
well i meant one of yours but i really like gandalf so it’s okay
balmy condor
I wish I was gandalf just licking a graham cracker
winged sun
its focused on the low cd of kb+higher duration after bugfix
so
also
like
realistically u wont play fatebound in real keys because u have to chain pull for lucky coin
marsh fjord
I don’t see a world where we playing fatebound in m+ honestly or it must be so strong that it over shadows DS
fleet patrol
So whos ready for first tuning after first raid week and its an aura buff 🤣
winged sun
otherwise back to ur old shitty kingsbane cd
its cringe that lucky coin only lasts like 12 sec
or someshit
solar wyvern
Oh baby
winged sun
idk why its even designed that way
golden loom
wait what happens with the CD if capstone falls off, lets say you have 10 sec left of a 45 sec CD
balmy condor
idk if you can say the build is focused on kb if you're only taking 1 poison 
golden loom
does it go to 25?
novel star
I wish I was gandalf just licking a graham cracker
you could be if you wanted yknow
balmy condor
kinda kills the whole "kb focus" if you're avoiding the main way to make kb stronger idk
tight ginkgo
idk if you can say the build is focused on kb if you're only taking 1 poison <:w...
strawberrypoison
earnest remnant
idk if you can say the build is focused on kb if you're only taking 1 poison <:w...
im focused on you. how bout dem apples
novel star
nothings stopping you from getting a graham cracker and licking it
earnest remnant
balmy condor
strawberrypoison
yeh true actually
winged sun
probably, its mostly because its gonna last way too long that it wont matter but idk
balmy condor
what
subtle crown
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
solar wyvern
Having it ramp faster so that its max stacks longer is the point no?
balmy condor
yeah
solar wyvern
Thats why u want more poisons
balmy condor
that's kinda the whole idea
golden loom
:WORLDOFWARCRAFT:
novel star
thanks man
winged sun
ok maybe the build requires pi
marsh fjord
That makes it a bad build imo
balmy condor
dawg what are you yapping rn
winged sun
they cycle pi on both kingbanes
lean plover
at that point play the older cleave build
golden loom
nvm @winged sun its not dashing or SD, its this and then we dont need DTB 🤝
winged sun
💀
foggy mirage
**Rogue Spreadsheet - [Light Version](<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/...
Sorry I dont trust lightmode guides
winged sun
what the helly
novel star
what a beautiful friday morning it is
golden loom
I am actually drinking a corona atm
balmy condor
Let him cook!
dude he's scraping out the fucking burnt chips from the bottom of the oven
ref do something
golden loom
its the vin disel build
fallow canopy
Ref doesnt get paid enough
solar wyvern
Okay but like hear me out
winged sun
ye and i never say the same about what u do with ur builds whispyr
solar wyvern
The burnt chips
winged sun
no offense
solar wyvern
They build character
earnest remnant
dude he's scraping out the fucking burnt chips from the bottom of the oven
mans needs an airfrier, to do the cooking for him
plush isle
what about 3 PIs ?
winged sun
can't try out builds without being a dickhead on every msg u send
solar wyvern
Hes cooking
nocturne quail
i enjoy Zeross' cooks
balmy condor
you're welcome to try out whatever builds you want zeross, the world is your oyster
solar wyvern
I personally think this one is very overcooked but yknow, gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette
winged sun
I personally think this one is very overcooked but yknow, gotta break a few eggs...
ye it is overcooked not sure how to get dtb tho
marsh fjord
no offense but i feel like zeross is cooking without a pan
solar wyvern
Drop arterial
golden loom
I think if you wanna play FB it just has to be the full cleave experience
winged sun
arterial is honestly too good atm
solar wyvern
It is what it is
winged sun
idk
golden loom
be the boss damage of your group
maiden sierra
Zerros is cooking by slapping the meat very very fast
winged sun
maybe fatebound just will never work because its impossible to pick arterial
fallow canopy
Zerros is cooking by slapping the meat very very fast
god I wish i was meat
winged sun
And both are too good
bleed build has both
solar wyvern
But no dtb
winged sun
ye but DS doesnt really make kingsbane giga op
maiden sierra
god I wish i was meat
Then what are you 
solar wyvern
Yeye im just referring to fb rn
golden loom
yeah I mean you drop the dumb kingsbane spell in bleed anyways
fallow canopy
Then what are you <:FeelsWeird:585739277120307220>
winged sun
yeah I mean you drop the dumb kingsbane spell in bleed anyways
ye i mean its mostly because of the tier set that we cant really synergize arterial with kingsbane
since we cant pick both talents
like its giga fine in raid but not in m+
cant drop scent
winged sun
fatebound is doing very good raw dmg in ptr atm, its just missing arterial which we cant pick up at all so its just automatically behind because that talent is just giga broken
idk
not sure how to make fatebound work
it'll prob just stay in the bin
novel star
winged sun
Make lucky coin 30 seconds and not make the spex 30% worse in aoe
that honestly doesn't fix the issue
arterial just makes fatebound automatically worse
becasuse it cant pick that talent
golden loom
Wasnt there a bleed build that dropped 2 talents and took IW and kb?
I think it was the one that dropped doomblade+bonespike but then also at that point what are we cookin
solar wyvern
I think it was the one that dropped doomblade+bonespike but then also at that po...
Yuck
winged sun
-2 finishers
winged sun
I think it was the one that dropped doomblade+bonespike but then also at that po...
btw
the main reason why i really like fatebound is that bonespike gives full cp sometimes
which is crazy
solar wyvern
Double seal fate yummmmyyy
winged sun
by full i mean, enough to cast a finisher
golden loom
Double seal fate yummmmyyy
well if only it was double
winged sun
so u just spam ruptures into ruptures into good finishers back to back
where as DS has to build 1 time after every "re rupture"
if that makes sense
the flow of fatebound is nice because of that basically
maiden sierra
I think the rogue tree needs a new talent point that gives you 1 additional talent point to spend in the spec tree.
Call it master of the trade and make the icon be an orange man
golden loom
the row except for systemic failure is very strong tho
balmy condor
my issue zeross is that every time you say anything you pretend like you're the god of rogue, you drop some random details screenshot and some siren emotes and go "NEW BUILD SUPER OP TRUST BIG INFINITE DPS CHECK STREAM" and it's like just a build man like come back down to earth man you're just spamming 15's or whatever the fuck on the most unbalanced PTR we've ever seen, telling people that buffs aren't in when they are, and that you're actually cranking cause you're missing like 16% or some shit to bugs and missing buffs when all of the buffs combined aren't even close to that. Like don't get me wrong, I appreciate that you're testing stuff and trying new things, it's great, but jesus fucking christ man you can do it without the giga ego and the borderline misinformation and just try things without pretending like every key you're running with whatever weird build is the best most giga op key rogue has ever seen. So yes, I'm sorry for shitting on your builds all the time, it's probably too much, but you piss me off man
golden loom
blindside + zoldyck big pog
languid seal
winged sun
buffs weren't in tho until recently wdym by "telling people that buffs aren't in when they are"
harsh anchor
winged sun
besides this whole conversation is just me and charrend cooking builds together
and ur just getting tilted for no reason
marsh fjord
Zeross genuine qeustion right
balmy condor
I've been getting dm'd all morning, the pin is cause of that
the buffs have been in
marsh fjord
If you want to cook a build up with charrend why not do that in DM?
golden loom
If you want to cook a build up with charrend why not do that in DM?
no fuck that I wanna cook aswell...
winged sun
everytime i talk about a build ur out here sending these msg's "cant wait for some random rogue to build a new st build for m+ levels that nobody plays" ur spamming those everyday
it happened we cooked the cleave build before and afterwards your just flaming everything for no reason even when the builds are genuinely viable
also sure the buffs are in today i know that
i wasn't aware until few hrs ago
chrome mirage
marble hemlock
i mean, im barely here and even i find your attitude kind of obnoxious at times? idk what it is about highkey m+ players who are genuinely good and succeed in environments that other people struggle in a lot, but man does it do smth to their ego sometimes. i hope i wasnt like that back in the day.
the fact youre focusing in on the 1 or 2 things in this massive post, instead of just looking at the bigger picture, kind of underlines the issue?
its not about who is right and who isnt.
its not an ego or epeen contest
winged sun
idk dude he keeps sending weird msg's meanwhile im talking about how certain builds are good in high keys and they actually work because they are being played
autumn idol
erm actually guys i'm the god of rogue and you know nothing
lost hamlet
to be fair, those burnt chips are the best part of the oven
autumn idol
any burnt popcorn fans
lost hamlet
any burnt popcorn fans
big ups
marsh fjord
erm actually guys i'm the god of rogue and you know nothing
if you are the girl on your avatar i acknowledge you as the god of rogue
balmy condor
so if I stop shitting on your builds, you're gonna stop too zeross or what
autumn idol
if you are the girl on your avatar i acknowledge you as the god of rogue
i wish i was the girl on my avatar
marsh fjord
i wish i was the girl on my avatar
damn unluck
autumn idol
same bro
balmy condor
like what is the change that is happening
winged sun
so if I stop shitting on your builds, you're gonna stop too zeross or what
i won't shit on any builds im a fan of testing things whispyr
balmy condor
I'm also a fan of testing things
winged sun
i think ur builds are good i never intended in saying ur builds are bad
idk if i did i didnt mean any of it
tardy trench
You guys gonna kiss or what
marble hemlock
cause like, i know ive been a pain in the ass back in the day, arguing and fighting with fuu a bunch of times. sometimes i was right, sometimes i was wrong. but at least i recognized that the way we talked to each other wasnt really helpful or constructive.
but theres a difference between going "YO DUDE WTF THIS IS THE SICKEST MOST UNDERGROUND KICKASS GIGACHAD BUILD YOUVE EVER SEEN" accompanied by 17 details screenshots in 24hrs, vs "hey, ive been trying this out a bit and had good success, what do you think?"
keen spruce
winged sun
cause like, i know ive been a pain in the ass back in the day, arguing and fight...
idk thats just yapping tho, the fatebound details i sent was just a potential that fatebound might be good idk
runic hinge
<:concernedpopcorn:622840041118629929>
marble hemlock
one man's yapping is another man's "oh dear god please stop"
marsh fjord
cause like, i know ive been a pain in the ass back in the day, arguing and fight...
From the moment i met you seli i knew you were the goat
winged sun
one man's yapping is another man's "oh dear god please stop"
understandable
golden loom
nah I swear Selis comments just seem way smarter than they are because the cat is so goddamn cute
autumn idol
you know you can just ignore the messages
you're not the only person in this chat
it's a public zone, let people yap as much as they want
solar wyvern
Idk if someone is in the rogue discord talking about rogue things theyre excited about i dont see the problem
winged sun
i'll be more professional in the way i send proof on things that might have potential in being good its fine
chrome mirage
Discord is for doomposting, not yaps
tight ginkgo
ig it can be a problem if people are being misled or think there's some hidden tech build that isnt being discussed and then ask about it over and over and over
winged sun
everytime i discuss a build your all pretending that everything is pre optimized and u just shit talk on everything i send perma
wooden star
Idk if someone is in the rogue discord talking about rogue things theyre excited...
Thousand percent here. I just like the passion. I'm not a fan of yucking someone's yum unless it's toxic or something
winged sun
so im not really the only one with the wrong doings here
winged sun
yapping that omg this build might be good might trigger you, shit talking is worse if u ask me
autumn idol
u guys are just inventing problems
keen spruce
Don’t listen to seli he’s just a horny degen
winged sun
but i'll stop as i said idc really
autumn idol
where there are none
marble hemlock
it's a public zone, let people yap as much as they want
thats exactly not the case. this isnt anyone's blog to just post whatever they want. its a public discord that offers curated information, where people can hang out and yap, and ideally not get on each others nerves.
but simultaneously theres people who volunteer a metric fuckton of their time to moderate, present information, discuss things from a TC perspective, and try to curate all the information that is being discussed in a way that is then helpful to the majority of people.
winged sun
u guys are just inventing problems
ye
brave comet
its zeross again ragebaiting people
golden loom
not really no
winged sun
thats exactly not the case. this isnt anyone's blog to just post whatever they w...
i mean i just posted a fatebound details where i outdpsed good classes in a good key run
i don't think it was misleading in any way seliathan
autumn idol
thats exactly not the case. this isnt anyone's blog to just post whatever they w...
this chat is homosexual more than it is talking about theorycrafting and curating information but okay
winged sun
it really has potential
marsh fjord
i mean i just posted a fatebound details where i outdpsed good classes in a good...
You understand how skewed that is right?
marble hemlock
so when someone is clearly starting to get annoyed with the way you present valuable info, then maybe itd be more beneficial for everyone involved to find a way to not annoy each other, instead of going the "my way or the high way" route?
nocturne quail
you cant sim keys tho so
spice spire
everytime i discuss a build your all pretending that everything is pre optimized...
That’s simply not true. Things being discussed are being stated as absolutes when there’s no data to back it up except you, and in reality you’re really good so it’s hard to discern “is this build really good, or is zeross just a lunatic”
Last season the cleave build was 100% a real thing - and mentioned a lot
winged sun
i know its controversial but its not wrong exploring
spice spire
There’s nothing wrong with tcing but to say after one “it’s the way” is a bit misleading as well
autumn idol
so when someone is clearly starting to get annoyed with the way you present valu...
why would you find it annoying in the first place
is my question
winged sun
no offense quake but if u were here when i talked about cleave build
u have no idea how hard people shit talked about it
tardy trench
I mean thats what good players do. Bad ones will stick by cookie cutter only
winged sun
OMG ITS SIMMING -13% DPS
spice spire
its zeross again ragebaiting people
Nah he has valid feelings here and some of it is real.
winged sun
zeross is cooked hes baiting people
and everything
it literally brought up chaos
and then peopel realized it actually was good
keen spruce
It has almost nothing to do with the information that you provide but how you present the information
harsh anchor
Because it was curated for your high end keys and how your group plays. The sims don’t sim that way.
tardy trench
Eventually you gotta stop simming and start playing the game
marble hemlock
i know its controversial but its not wrong exploring
definitely not, its heavily encouraged. but its also difficult to explore things fully without any proper data to back it up, with things being stated as fact that arent, or when the environment in which certain things were tried out isnt really all that clear. what is anybody supposed to glean from that, other than "someone did big numbers somehow"
spice spire
u have no idea how hard people shit talked about it
You’re right. Because simming 1:1 with keys is really fucking difficult. Eventually it was found lowkey your ass was cooking and the haters were wrong
winged sun
everytime i try to actually research something because theres clearly barely enough people who like to explore things since the community isn't really that big, especially for M+ since alot of people like raid alot more
spice spire
For lack of a better term
winged sun
You’re right. Because simming 1:1 with keys is really fucking difficult. Eventua...
i was being spammed about it everyday btw
until i proved them all wrong when i sent the sims
spice spire
I think exploring is VERY VERY good
I mean yeah people online are going to do depraved things
winged sun
its the same thing im testing with fatebound rn btw i never said its a finalized 100% best build
like it did kinda good dmg
not -20% behind by any means
marble hemlock
and like schmeeps said, no one is upset about you trying new shit. youre one of the few people who get to play in an environment where you can really go crazy and have the opportunity to try new things in about as controlled of an environment as you can get. but it needs to be tempered in some way so the valuable information can be taken from it, and then later distilled into something that is more useful for the wider population
runic hinge
17 details screenshots a day isn’t a good way to present data
keen spruce
why does everyone put a C in my name
runic hinge
Lisp
runic hinge
Today you did. The clever build days it was every 35 minutes when you did a key
winged sun
"a day too"
gilded oasis
why does everyone put a C in my name
schuntmeeps
marble hemlock
and just from this conversation alone, its super obvious that you can have that kind of balanced and more tame conversation, and i think the rogue community as a whole is gonna be better for it
lean plover
Ye the way u present the information is the problem u cooking builds a and trying stuff is rly good
winged sun
seliathan
whats a better way to prove that fatebound is actually viable and does good dmg than sending details from a ptr run
marble hemlock
log it
spice spire
No it’s not
marble hemlock
??
tight ginkgo
?
marsh fjord
Logs gives you a better picture
spice spire
Logs go in in depth and tells you exactly what you’re doing
winged sun
sure it gives more details
golden loom
details or logs arent the issue there what
spice spire
Logs are infinitely more valuable than details
marble hemlock
you can actually dissect a log, look through your usage of abilities, how the damage is split up, and all those things. none of that info is in a details screen?
winged sun
i mean you guys just need to know if fatebound is good or not
tight ginkgo
It is like saying there's no difference between a picture of a forest and being in the forest
winged sun
u dont have to send a whole spreadsheet of logs to show that its better
just simple numbers
sin > mm hunter
for example
coral ibex
winged sun
then we can go into logs if we agree its good
marble hemlock
more than half the battle of finding optimizations via the APL is by actually changing certain priorities or use-conditions. how is anyone supposed to see if you deviated from what the sim does to find these optimizations, based off of a screenshot?
winged sun
details is usually enough information to have an idea if a build is good enough or not
tight ginkgo
But we dont even know what happened in the key?
nocturne quail
whose mad about a details screen shot
solar wyvern
and like schmeeps said, no one is upset about you trying new shit. youre one of ...
Is zeross under any obligation to do this btw? Is it against discord rules to post details and say hey this thing i did did a lot of dps it may be better than we thought.
marble hemlock
its a start, but no ones gonna spend time investigating anything, or taking it seriously in the first place, if we just get a screen
nocturne quail
Is zeross under any obligation to do this btw? Is it against discord rules to po...
yeah like people dont spam the same questions in here everyday
winged sun
u guys are just making it a big deal for no reason, posting 17 detail screenshots a day when i literally only sent 2 this whole month btw
in sin channel that is
marble hemlock
Is zeross under any obligation to do this btw? Is it against discord rules to po...
ofc not. just like whispyr or any of the other TCs are under no obligations to follow up on anything that is being posted
light mountain
sparknotes is just as good as reading the book
marsh fjord
Is zeross under any obligation to do this btw? Is it against discord rules to po...
It has absolutely nothing to do with discord rules, it has to do how it creates a certain picture.
spice spire
Yeah the answer could be just you have pulled 60000 mobs and GIGA cleaved.
That’s why logs are like the best way to show updates it’s also not an obligation or anything he has to do
gilded oasis
robust pulsar
This is exactly the kind of popcorn I need on a Friday morning
solar wyvern
ofc not. just like whispyr or any of the other TCs are under no obligations to f...
Yeah but did zeross demand yall do this or did i miss something here
runic hinge
<a:blobpopcorn:443452996823547925>
golden loom
I think a lot of people want fatebound to actually be a thing in aoe (me included I love gambling) but I think PTR at the end of the day is just PTR and time will tell when we get to live and maybe the kitchen will be cooking fr fr 💯
coral ibex
Yeah but did zeross demand yall do this or did i miss something here
zeross wants his builds to be taken seriously
earnest remnant
its a start, but no ones gonna spend time investigating anything, or taking it s...
its like me telling you follow a recipee for this banger cake i found, but im only gonna give you half of the recipee list
marble hemlock
its like me telling you follow a recipee for this banger cake i found, but im on...
nah, you gonna give me a picture of a cake
marsh fjord
its like me telling you follow a recipee for this banger cake i found, but im on...
Share the recipe right now
winged sun
its just weird being offended by 2 pictures and calling me out that im sending 10-20 screenshots a day when i only sent 2 this whole month to point out that fatebound is not really bad at all
whispyr said fatebound is trash and it does -15% dps which i dont think is true ( i may be wrong ) so i sent a screenshot arguing that it may be decent
marble hemlock
its like posting a picture of a cake and going "yo, this thing only has 300 calories but 70g of protein, and i only came it in once", but not providing any kind of details on how you did that
solar wyvern
W.e i found zeross cooking a good thought experiment
runic hinge
its just weird being offended by 2 pictures and calling me out that im sending 1...
it's the first day of the month
normal mist
XD
winged sun
zeross wants his builds to be taken seriously
w rage bait, not really idc if its taken seriously or not
fallow canopy
I think no one finds the cooking annoying just the way the dish is presented (?
hidden torrent
sin > mm hunter
wha
solar wyvern
it's the first day of the month
Gottem
hidden torrent
but fb > mm ?
marble hemlock
whispyr said fatebound is trash and it does -15% dps which i dont think is true ...
i mean, thats a good start, but at this point theres also a bit of history there, no? were you planning on doing more with that kind of post, or just leave it there again like the last few times where you already butted heads?
winged sun
idk where this is going seliathan
marble hemlock
cuz its incredibly frustrating to be told "i disagree with your numbers" but not go any further
winged sun
like its part of an investigation or something
balmy condor
whispyr said fatebound is trash and it does -15% dps which i dont think is true ...
that's not what I said, Its not a secret that fatebound aoe is really bad compared to deathstalker, atm roughly -15% in heavy aoe, then I struggle to see where you're finding gains to compensate that
trim raptor
Why do people listen to zeross when he states on record that assa bleed does 0 prio compared to most classes
marble hemlock
like its part of an investigation or something
nah, i think you could be a great asset to this discord and community, if you just took some of your cooking a bit further
if you want to be that, ofc
youre under no obligation to be, but then you cant be upset if people dont finish the cook on your behalf either
coral ibex
he says he doesn't care if he's taken seriously so just let him post details screenshots
marble hemlock
and i think i speak for most of us when i say: we want the cook to finish
coral ibex
harsh anchor
This is just the interview process to join the ravenholdt TC
keen spruce
Is zeross under any obligation to do this btw? Is it against discord rules to po...
There's nothing about any rules being talked about.
- Whispyr said Zeross was being annoying based on a pattern of behavior over a long time
- Zeross disagreed that he did anything wrong
- other people said "well he's[whispyr] kind of got a point"
- Zeross started talkin about this specific instance and the data being provided
now we're kind of here and it's sort of become each side having their own one-sided conversation talking into the void
winged sun
i mean idk its just part of something we're currently exploring me and charrend, seliathan
runic hinge
tbh I wish fb in m+ was a thing, so please cook it
winged sun
its ptr its just a bunch of testing we made with today's changes
whole mason
Ego is fine, misinformation is a "sorry" to say, and testing is based neither details nor hypothesis. P.S. boasting builds will always find the right one if you do it often enough.
winged sun
its ptr its just a bunch of testing we made with today's changes
i believe the changes were made today afaik maybe im late to the party
earnest remnant
lil late think it was 30 or so hours ago it actually hit ptr, atleast the sub stuff did
marble hemlock
i mean idk its just part of something we're currently exploring me and charrend,...
thats great, cant wait to see where it goes.
winged sun
my last details pic
was 2 months ago
i only posted 2 m+ dungeon pics since then btw
winged sun
no shit sherlock
marble hemlock
i can just give you my pov: i used to be in a similar spot. making claims that the sims couldnt really substantiate. had a lot of back and forth with fuu, and it wasnt always pleasant either. eventually we both sat down, i cooled my head a little, and looked a bit deeper as to why the sim might not be able to provide the result i was actively seeing when playing the game, and we figured it out eventually
winged sun
idk seli, i just wanted to explore fatebound