i got filtered when insulting the spec...
#assassination
haughty flicker
unlucky
subtle tundra
😤
haughty flicker
i think herald is visually cooler but it actually just doesnt change gameplay at all
so if it becomes meta i might actually fall asleep
zenith elm
Good morning fellow rogues
haughty flicker
op
also just to be perfectly clear, ret is still crayon eater level of spec
divine hammers is just a fun little minigame i like
and assa is also crayon eater level of spec in raid so swapping between them doesnt bother me
subtle tundra
i hate the whole thing of hammer of light being available after using X amount of holy power
cause it desyncs so much
just like CDR abilities
its frustrating design
grim jay
Idk im of the opinion that stuff needing to magically line up doesnt feel good if it does
It feels annoying if it doesnt
And just fine if it does
haughty flicker
maybe
it lining up like that doesnt actually make or break your damage at all though so it doesnt really bother me
same variance as just not critting enough envenoms
doesnt feel as bad as when im playing sub and do my whole opener without getting a single tier stack
runic hinge
just hit
subtle tundra
just hit me uwu
haughty flicker
there is nothing hard with Ret
also what does assa do in st thats harder than keeping up hammer uptime throughout mechanics
i'd like to hear the counterpoint
haughty flicker
rotund oak
i can see assa having issues tracking down bleeds but in all its a comfy and well designed spec
sharp viper
also what does assa do in st thats harder than keeping up hammer uptime througho...
our crayons taste like bleeds and poisons
sharp viper
if I had to provide an actual argument is that we have to manage more than 1 (one) resource
sharp viper
we are still bound by it instead of press glowy buttons
haughty flicker
but how does that make a spec any harder or easier
subtle tundra
if all you do is crayon eat while playing assa, youre not minmaxing enough
you can do so much more
haughty flicker
maybe
like i said before its also possible my comfort on assa is making me undervalue whatever difficulty it has
sharp viper
but how does that make a spec any harder or easier
mashing buttons more does not equate to more dmg
haughty flicker
but i'd also open the floor to you as to what specifically you do in st as assa
haughty flicker
mashing buttons more does not equate to more dmg
i disagree, its a known fact the more times you press a button while your energy is filling up the more damage it does
subtle tundra
detection spam
sharp viper
detection spam
true 
jolly heath
with new tier set next season, should we send shiv first into dm into kb or it doesnt matter
nova kelp
SHIV > DM > KB FOR LYFE!
haughty flicker
you might potentially get like a single extra tick of bleeds buffed
haughty flicker
finally a minmax i can get behind
nova kelp
I can almost smell the extra damage
jolly heath
stark matrix
3 pack timmy the tank chaining into another 3 pack as they're dying makes me cry
candid hull
3 pack timmy the tank chaining into another 3 pack as they're dying makes me cry
Then they get mad at you even if you politely ask
stark matrix
like just do big boy pulls 😦
humble verge
hmmm not a bad first vault on the 2nd rogue
already have a neck tho
sadge
not a bad drop
on the 3rd :3
jaunty matrix
is it possible in an easy way to include in my sim a racial ability when my character doesn't belong to that race ?
so i can sim the difference if i were to change into that race
past marten
Can do an advanced sim that includes all races, I think fuu posted about it in #tc-research a while ago. Maybe it's pinned.
red schooner
not worth paying like 20 dollars to change
Paying 20 dollars to change looks though, maybe worth it
humble verge
Paying 20 dollars to change looks though, maybe worth it
no
jaunty matrix
it is worth
jaunty matrix
for looks
jaunty matrix
considering anything that is not an elf is between meh and ugly
red schooner
fuck you and your bad looks
Nah I'm already styling it was just a hypothetical
jaunty matrix
jaunty matrix
Human>elves
normal mist
the real fight is Human vs Orc
royal lantern
considering anything that is not an elf is between meh and ugly
elf is max ugly
royal lantern
the real fight is Human vs Orc
none of you mfs ever played WC1/2 allright 
rotund oak
none of you mfs ever played WC1/2 allright <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
i did 
humans still are better
red schooner
then i predate the mesozoic
Imagine not being pre-cambrian explosion
rotund oak
Imagine not being pre-cambrian explosion
definitely fanerozoic
royal lantern
mf is primodial soup
earnest remnant
bro was present during the big bang
balmy condor
Bro remembers when the Big Bang was little
“Back in my day, we had hydrogen and helium, and that was it! Carbon wasn’t even invented yet, fucking zoomer elements”
rotund oak
“Back in my day, we had hydrogen and helium, and that was it! Carbon wasn’t even...
fun and irrelevant fact : Marsupials although believed to be native australian mammals they originate from South America,migrated to Antarctica and from there to Australia back when all of them were connected
red schooner
“Back in my day, we had hydrogen and helium, and that was it! Carbon wasn’t even...
Imagine having elements, we had to settle with quarks and we were content with just that.
balmy condor
Imagine having elements, we had to settle with quarks and we were content with j...
We had to float across the entire universe each day on the way to school, and it took an actual eternity because time wasn’t a thing
golden kestrel
Ok i have to ask a stupid quest here - i have been reading through the Talents, passives etc but for the life of mine, I can't find the answer to this.
So in a m+ Setting -> Garrote, Garrote, Ambush f.e.-> Finisher. My first finisher gives me back about 5-7 Combo Points. Somehow dependend on the amount of enemies.
WHY? 😄 I can't find a single machanic that says me why it does so, I am freaking out.
Thanks for your time.
earnest remnant
serrated bonespike
nova aspen
MEOW
subtle tundra
MIAU
subtle tundra
false
this is a reused avatar
from 2023
panty and stocking is so good
more representation of gooner women in media please
nova aspen
silent compass
Hey i just simmed and it looks like blasphemite is not important?
lucid rune
Can I get a temperature check on sin in raid next patch?
Been enjoying it in keys, wondering about feel in raid? I guess it’s very similar to live?
From what I understand, gone are the days of sin being ST beasts, right?
spare kayak
The same as now from what I've read here. 36.5-37 degrees.
royal lantern
Hey i just simmed and it looks like blasphemite is not important?
yes
its 0,1% crit dmg 
silent compass
yes
its 0,1% crit dmg <:dracthyr_kek:1002454136706580620>
Aww man, thought they were useful
800 primary stat is not that important?
spare kayak
800 primary stat is not that important?
?
lucid rune
So we’re not over here dooming? Just maybe want someee changes before 11.2?
sharp viper
Algari gems give primary too with cdmg
181 primary stat tho, not 800
red schooner
So we’re not over here dooming? Just maybe want someee changes before 11.2?
I mean there's some doom but like, that's standard in any class discord
spare kayak
u cant use all 4 wth?
sharp viper
Oh i meant when we use all 4
Unique equipped means you cannot use more than 1
silent compass
Unique equipped means you cannot use more than 1
I meant algari gem colors
spare kayak
my guy got me here thinking i missed 800 stats
silent compass
We can use 4 different gem colors
azure dirge
Oh i meant when we use all 4
Only the crit increases, not the primary stat
silent compass
Ohh ok
azure dirge
Bad wording on their part
silent compass
Wow i missed a lot of dmg
spare kayak
is it gems only or jastor difference?
spare kayak
i see you're still using blasphemite in head
silent compass
I just clicked almost all of the gems
lucid rune
I’m just here waiting for another Whispyr YouTube vid
coral ibex
you could watch the most recent one and get like 80% of it right for next season anyway
if not more
nova aspen
I’m just here waiting for another Whispyr YouTube vid
a fellow pookie
maiden aspen
i would like some advice for my vault, this char is gonna be used for splits next tier.
my vault has myth legs and some rings which seem good (myth crit/mast and haste/crit) - legs are the biggest upgrade right now but i feel like im more likely to see myth legs in future than one of these rings. should i just get the legs anyway? not sure what to take
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/151gzUGR7LpZKhGAPBrpQt
coral ibex
sim
ocean quiver
blud aint even read the message and instantly said sim
maiden aspen
sim was meant to be in the message 😭
i will be getting jastor myth with dinars in a week or two
coral ibex
dont need to, gear is fake at this point in the season and you will continue to farm it anyway
you can craft a ring, you can't craft tier legs
take whatever sims highest with that in mind
maiden aspen
o7
ocean quiver
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iRX8zSd3AxReNh2gz4KKhD all vault options are a decrease besides cloak being 0.1% not even worth bru
might have to take outlaw weapon
is belt capped at 701? I thought it went up to 704?
0.4% on single target
spice surge
701 is max yes
peak helm
Returning player, last raided at the start of shadowlands. During Nathria, you could get good ilvl gear from PvP that could be used for PvE. Is that still a thing or did they go back to the way it used to be where pvp gear is trash for pve?
golden loom
Returning player, last raided at the start of shadowlands. During Nathria, you c...
last season u could do some pvp early on for socketed bracers or smthin but not really at the moment no
peak helm
Word
native escarp
how do you guys keep track of marked target
do you just not tab target and just garrote/rupture same mob to spread?
native escarp
ok ty
spice surge
how do you guys keep track of marked target
Generally most people have a plater (or similar addon) profile that makes the marked target easy to distinguish from the rest
Either by making the icon very big and visible, changing the colour of the plate or any other way to just make it more obvious to see
But yes also mouseovers
native escarp
i wouldnt have a clue how to do that stuff with plater
but changing the color of the nameplate would help
coral ibex
there are premade profiles you can use
or you can do some googling, this is a common topic
there is a plater discord
lean plover
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
lean plover
you can download 2 plater profiles from there
somber sparrow
have considered making a deathstalker's mark macro that adds a /focus target and then you can create a keybind that targets your focus because it can be annoying trying to quickly get back to your marked target. Something that could maybe be made better by buffing ourselves and not a target.
native escarp
i downloaded Whispyr's one
the nameplate isn't changing colors still
unless it only works in key
lean plover
you can set set focus and a target focus keybinds
pliant remnant
Did you disable (de)buffs or summin
waxen oyster
From what I understand, gone are the days of sin being ST beasts, right?
I mean we’re still very good once boss reaches execute.
spice surge
Assa in raid with ST talents does pretty much only ST
Wiht some cleave, but you effectively just hit boss, regardless of what happens
potent lance
Whats the meaning of reflecting?
spice surge
That it was already live on the ptr
And the datamining posted on that specific date was not new information, it was in the notes a couple of days earlier
potent lance
❤️❤️
peak bobcat
Is bleed build getting better next patch with the tier set
final star
probably worse off than a more st focused build
because most of the damage is not evenom
the more st focused build has better interaction with deathstalker
spice surge
Meh its probably similar to now, Shiv being longer is obviously a lot better when you have arterial specced
final star
probably doesn't even matter that much but maybe the more frequent DN buffed envenoms will be better for one than the other
but too much math brain too small
peak bobcat
can they just make blindside the first talent in the tree
spec is infinitely more fun with it
waxen oyster
can they just make blindside the first talent in the tree
you always path there anyway
peak bobcat
in the m+ build?
waxen oyster
yeah
lean plover
you path there for raid and for bleed build so
peak bobcat
yeah but in the good m+ build you dont play it
and you are afk on the bosses so can we move it to a better spot pls
lean plover
you can play bleed until like 19s, bit before in rookery
waxen oyster
you mean the build that only people who do 20s play
I mean bleed is better for 99% of the playerbase
None of them are good enough for 20s
People play the slow rogue spec then ask why its slow
sterile lodge
Anyone bored and want to look at a log and tell me why I suck?
waxen oyster
"the good m+ build"
peak bobcat
i just like the talent guys
thats all i was getting at
procs are fun
especially ones that make it so i can have higher than 35 apm on single target
waxen oyster
play outlaw then
shy creek
People are always like you can play bleed before 19 before 19
But in reality like 10% of people play bleed, and the other 90% of people play the cleave build in 19s
and 18s
royal lantern
But in reality like 10% of people play bleed, and the other 90% of people play t...
numbers for that pls?
shy creek
sure
Go sort by 18s and 19s and go check for yourself
Ive been hearing this bullshit about bleed for week so i finally decided to go check lmao
royal lantern
mechagon
spice surge
It doesnt particularly matter what you play
theres very little difference either way
royal lantern
go sort by every key man obviously i checked everything
if you "checked everything" you would know that its based in teamcomp
and not "X is better"
marsh fjord
Isn't it just a matter of induction build has better prio damage?
spice surge
Better boss damage ye
marsh fjord
and if your group has a lot of aoe already
why would you go bleed at that point
just go induction
shy creek
bro links points
Sort by damage its the same
spice surge
But overall theres very little difference in the damage profiles
royal lantern
Isn't it just a matter of induction build has better prio damage?
yes
you trade prio+boss dmg for raw aoe
which is like, depeending on your team what you want
spice surge
It just doesnt matter much
waxen oyster
2nd is bleed
waxen oyster
yes
you trade prio+boss dmg for raw aoe
which is like, depeending on your team...
pug andys
marsh fjord
yes
you trade prio+boss dmg for raw aoe
which is like, depeending on your team...
yeah thats what i meant 😄
waxen oyster
m+ers think wow is league
spice surge
Ye but people make it sound like youre gaining something massive in prio
waxen oyster
for some reason
spice surge
And not like +5%
waxen oyster
most players just sheep follow what streamers do
coral ibex
m+ers think wow is league
league brain is terminal and there is no cure
marsh fjord
I like the induction build more. it's easier to play. dont have to fiddle around with double vanish.
spice surge
I fucking hate kingsbane tbh
coral ibex
i mean its objectively harder to play if you dont have prio targets that live long enough
spice surge
because if youre not fighting when its ready
You'll either be delaying DM or skipping kingsbane
shy creek
if you "checked everything" you would know that its based in teamcomp
is this even true
spice surge
Both of which feels awful
coral ibex
and idk what "fiddle with double vanish" means, you literally just vanish if you drop your mark
royal lantern
is this even true
??? yes ???
coral ibex
or for chain pulls
marsh fjord
and idk what "fiddle with double vanish" means, you literally just vanish if you...
hahaha for me i gotta think more about double vanish then i do in the induction build. not everyone is a gigachad like you broski
fallow canopy
I love m+ discussions 
marsh fjord
that's subjective tho
You might be better at the game then me
so mabye i have to think about it
coral ibex
what are you thinking about tho
marsh fjord
Do you see my point
coral ibex
either the tank is chain pulling and you need a vanish or they aren't so you dont?
shy creek
rank 2 damage in workshop is literally bleed
whats that gotta do with teamcomp???
phys is always going to do more than non phys
waxen oyster
I love m+ discussions <:DogPopcorn:538444895170330625>
most m+ers dont know how to do damage
and spend longer on random shit that doesnt matter
shy creek
wait hold on i have a solid counter argument
rank 1 is literally not bleed bro
wtf
waxen oyster
and look at the difference
marsh fjord
And look at the comp. a boomkin + a arms warrior who do a lot of aoe damage.
fallow canopy
most m+ers dont know how to do damage
oh I don't have a side really I barely interact with m+ besides the first weeks but its funny to me how that's usually the topic that tends to make the conversations here let say spicier
waxen oyster
Either way if you barely know how to play the spec
you should play bleed
since it has less player need for braincells
to put up numbers
waxen oyster
if you play with a tank consistently and know when hes gonna pull big
waxen oyster
100k dps 
coral ibex
50m damage total is what you're making such a big deal over
6.65b vs 6.60b
cleave build is not that much better than bleed
player execution matters a lot more
waxen oyster
Here for the people that failed basic math
marsh fjord
Here for the people that failed basic math
Show us the search bar how you googled it
worn geyser
sorry i missed 100k dps compared to rank 1 without dh and mastery buff my bad og
shy creek
bro osmebody said it was a teamcomp diff
i was just proving them rigth, it mattered a lot i think the team comp
worn geyser
ye it matters a decent bit unfortunately for high keys(altho he did link only an 18 so idk)
waxen oyster
yeah i mean hunter buff is useless
this is no secret
If I see an rdruid catforming with his dispel off cd and I still have rookery boss debuff I start to spam ping him.
waxen oyster
I said hunter buff
muted agate
Is there a trick for Mythic MugZee to maximize dps? Im seeing logs of people 3.4-3.9m dps. I can't seem to get up there. Uptime on bleeds is solid, sending my CDs asap, and staying on boss.
Wonder if its a positioning thing for some light add cleave? Any feedback is welcome.
waxen oyster
Is there a trick for Mythic MugZee to maximize dps? Im seeing logs of people 3.4...
Are you in a gaol
nocturne quail
Caustic spatter the cage mobs
waxen oyster
You are NOT doing 3.9 if you get a gaol.
golden loom
Is there a trick for Mythic MugZee to maximize dps? Im seeing logs of people 3.4...
in the big picture getting spatter on gaol adds/lil rocket guy isnt that insane, just gotta maintain full uptime on boss and avoid getting mechanics 🙂
waxen oyster
We killed this week on the one pull it was on me
:))))
:)))))))
I'm going to start stashing rough dynamite on my character
coral ibex
you should also hold your last set of cds so you get good uptime and cleave/kill the boss during LD
waxen oyster
and mail people after raid who do stupid shit
coral ibex
i always hold my dm until after the ice boots come out
and i never go in a gaol unless i get the circle on me
worn geyser
ya u can consistently do that on both rocketeers
coral ibex
also 3.9 is a fucking god run lets be real
anything above 3.4 you are doing a solid crank
worn geyser
true pretty much everything on mug tho is like that, just get lucky not getting mechanics and u parse if u play well
coral ibex
waxen oyster
because ranged cant not walk on a mine
:)
like i genuinely dont understand how people walk into mines
its the easiest shit
waxen oyster
true pretty much everything on mug tho is like that, just get lucky not getting ...
i got orange on prog kill
which ig matters more
worn geyser
w i only got a 93 on our prog kill rip
golden loom
i got orange on prog kill
prog kill is still my best aswell, had so many insane pulls get wiped on re-clears tho :depression:
waxen oyster
somehow i only did 4k more this week
worn geyser
i had a 98 in a really good run, then immediately the next week got gaol on p2 and despite playing almost identically blue parse cause gaol in execute
waxen oyster
really shows you how much gaols grief your damage
4k more boss dam
with extra aura buff and belt
golden loom
like this latest 71 is after having 4 pulls in a row of 3,4-3,5b on low % wipes 
coral ibex
the last mines + gaol set is always a shitshow for my guild
waxen oyster
Yeah i had 2 pulls over 3.4
coral ibex
xd
golden loom
I have not stayed outside of last gaol yet tho
cause I am afraid of what will happen
coral ibex
i'm never going in again until the people in there die to the initial hit
golden loom
like can 2 people soak gaol without blowing up
golden loom
cause I think usually the gaol I am assigned to there is for 3 people
but like its happened way too many times that I am alone there for some reason
"hmm why did my cheat death proc thats weird... and wait why is this add not taking any damage"
waxen oyster
me when the boomkin walks on top on me
with their gaol assignment
i aint moving this is my correct spot
golden loom
I am not in on mug today so we pray for good rng on gally instead 
waxen oyster
pretty sure they dont let me sit it because
atro
and im one of the only melee that isnt floor
barren zenith
we'd rather pot on opener instead of on a kb window with lust, right?
waxen oyster
kb solo kind of piss
waxen oyster
not sure where you'd run into that situation
barren zenith
not sure where you'd run into that situation
mug 3min lust
golden loom
Just as intermission starts
But I just pot on pull and also just before it dies just send the lil raw dog pot
waxen oyster
Pretty sure we lust around 4
worn geyser
we started lusting on pull but we basically have a 70% chance of wiping if i get a gaol circle in execute cause we lack the phase 2 dam rip
golden loom
Wait what
barren zenith
But I just pot on pull and also just before it dies just send the lil raw dog po...
yeah that's what I imagined was better and ended up doing
golden loom
If you lust there u have 2 mins
barren zenith
RL asked for lust pot but all I could think was that I just had kb
so just moved it to opener instead
barren zenith
and yeah I just checked and it was a 3:15 lust
golden loom
boots was 4:05
I mean yeah but you just gotta send and gamble on not getting boots
Like lust execute full cds hell yeah 🔥
waxen oyster
i mean i got clearance to not go in gaols
if drop isnt on me
so was holding to dm kb spatter
waxen oyster
cursed if you get gaol
looked good on details since shocker damage wasnt removed
shockers got caught in 90m of spatter crossfire
at the end
barren zenith
for gaol spatter cleave is there some secret tech or does it naturally cleave?
spice surge
It also doesnt matter now, most people end up stopping dps to not kill them too fast
golden loom
yeah its not really in your hands
barren zenith
makes sense
royal lantern
It also doesnt matter now, most people end up stopping dps to not kill them too ...
*most people get told to stop dps but dps anyway
royal lantern
loved mugzee prog
"STOP DPS"->the firemage in combust jumping around spamming pyroblasts while the evoker chains disintergrates and the ret pops wings
waxen oyster
We never stopped dps
just had to tell people to slow down in first jails
if too many dps with good damage were in one
golden loom
if a dps that was not assigned to a gaol got in there and grip/rescue failed then we just afked/kicked cast
waxen oyster
just void elf out /s
ornate pond
i wouldnt have a clue how to do that stuff with plater
I have a weakaura that puts a blinking purple outline over the target's plate just in my base ElvUI plates
random quarry
#showtooltip Shiv
/cast Shiv
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null
this isnt working for me any ideas?
random quarry
omg
keen spruce
random quarry
is there a way to get it to work without getting rid of my actual tea?
random quarry
i like it. its a neat memento
balmy condor
Put the tea in a different characters bank
random quarry
it works now never would have occurred to me ty
red schooner
WHY DO PEOPLE HAVE THAT THING
Same reason I have my old poison stuff and thieves tools and blinding powder
earnest remnant
never seen anyone try and cross that, so cant tell you
silent compass
Asking cuz if i somehow fuck up that
golden loom
yeah unless you are trying you arent gonna get close to it
coral ibex
you'd never be close to it and also have cloak that is free to use
silent compass
Gotcha thanks
shy heron
Do you have tea in your bank
I um. who would dare do that? certainly not me keeping a bunch of old antiques on my bank alt
rich dragon
a stupid question to ask. I assume night elf race talent does not count as vanish? or does it? if it counts it would be pretty broken isnt it
balmy condor
It does not directly
You can use it in non-boss encounters to drop combat and then get an actual stealth off
But it’s not consistent
rich dragon
You can use it in non-boss encounters to drop combat and then get an actual stea...
wait, isnt this like broken enough? or is it the non-consistent element taking over the majority to make it not worth it?
balmy condor
It’s fine
thick zinc
Holy shit! @balmy condor thanks for all your content, brother!
balmy condor
It’s not anything earth shattering or whatever
balmy condor
Holy shit! <@167090536602140682> thanks for all your content, brother!
Np, glad you enjoy it
royal lantern
wait, isnt this like broken enough? or is it the non-consistent element taking o...
not really
its a racial
waxen oyster
Also if any pulsing aoe damage occurs
before you hit stealth
you wont get it off
People forget modern vanish has like 20 layers of protection on it.
rich dragon
idk its my second day playing this class. so basically only keep bleed up during death mark window? I feel like I always want to keep bleed up since its a majority damage component and an extra vanish definitely help
waxen oyster
You never let bleeds drop off your main target
what
I feel people crutch on IC so hard
balmy condor
Bleeds are your energy
waxen oyster
and act like its impossible to dot things without
half tartan
Is the 8% buff listed for assasination enough as far as we can tell as of now?
balmy condor
No bleeds means no envenom means no caustic means no damage
thick zinc
You should read whispyr’s guide on wowhead if you have not. It is game changer 🙂
rich dragon
Bleeds are your energy
ya but only keep bleed on one target? or do I tap target to get bleed up without vanish?
waxen oyster
Depends how long they live
balmy condor
ya but only keep bleed on one target? or do I tap target to get bleed up without...
You should always have max scent of blood in aoe
At a minimum
half tartan
TY 4 the tag ❤️
rich dragon
You should always have max scent of blood in aoe
Sorry I got confused, thats only possibile with vanish/stealth right? or do I need to rupture 10 targets individually to keep that buff at max?
waxen oyster
scent is up to 5
balmy condor
5
rich dragon
oh ya mb
balmy condor
But yes, you would individually rupture if needed
main bridge
spammer is back
rich dragon
got it. thx
worn geyser
for the dry shiv, and you already have darkest night proc, but you get lucky on mut seal fate combo point gen and max out, its still worth to shiv even if it means that combo point is wasted right
i figure it is but it gives me the ick in the 2% of scenarios this happens
runic hinge
yes the shiv combo point doesnt matter
worn geyser
gotcha, yeah that ick is even worse on ptr, if u forget to shiv on DSM 1 use left before dry shiv, then an entire mark is wasted it feels gross
half tartan
Are current iterations of 2set/4set 11.2 with deathstalker/fatebound weaker or stronger in % dps then the 11.1 tier sets?
Current tier is +4% and then +3.8%
vague dragon
whats up guys i want to know what should i do when my cds come up and im out of energy do i dont attack and push energy or ?
main bridge
go get a coffee
worn geyser
Are current iterations of 2set/4set 11.2 with deathstalker/fatebound weaker or s...
afaik no sims out yet, since all the tc around it isnt done(incase there are any weird optimizations found from set) and tuning isnt finished ; but vibes based it feels about the same
worn geyser
in keys we do really good dam rn on ptr
balmy condor
Are current iterations of 2set/4set 11.2 with deathstalker/fatebound weaker or s...
All the tier sets will eventually be stronger than the 11.1 tier sets
That’s how tuning works
Every tiers bonus is stronger than the last
And then they reset again at the start of the expansion
balmy condor
whats up guys i want to know what should i do when my cds come up and im out of ...
You push your CDs and do the same thing you were doing
vague dragon
You push your CDs and do the same thing you were doing
so i dont have to wait for energy ty
worn geyser
bro playing with the new trinkets in keys on ptr is so dope, ive been running the netherprism + void touched fragment, and when u go into a pull at 9 fragments and 1 tiny mob dies and u pop cds its gg and stuff just gets obliterated
those trinkets like void touched fragment are like crazy fun in keys cause they stack so fast
waxen oyster
damn you lost 2.6 to shocker?
golden loom
Idk I think I farmed the shockers at the end of the fight with spatter lmao
worn geyser
that is crazy ur shocker dam is like 4x mine
half tartan
Do yall send in envenoms into the shockers? I can't figure out how to parse higher
Our shockers die so fast that IDK if its even worth
golden loom
Do yall send in envenoms into the shockers? I can't figure out how to parse high...
shockers dont count for logs
humble verge
stayed outside of last gaols and held cds
uwu, can i join your guild for reclears
Okayge
dapper atlas
guys im curious if mechano core is bis why is no of the top 100 parses on mythic bosses using it?
runic hinge
It gets beat by mythic ilvl trinkets
red schooner
Please
runic hinge
Bruh there ain’t no way I’m remembering to save shiv for soothes
coral ibex
brother just sim the items and youll figure it out
red schooner
Bruh there ain’t no way I’m remembering to save shiv for soothes
...I'm used to it by now
coral ibex
the bis lists are created exclusively for search engine optimization to drive clicks for wowhead
that's it
there's hundreds of valid combinations of gear pieces that can produce results within margin of error
just sim your character and potential drops
royal lantern
guys im curious if mechano core is bis why is no of the top 100 parses on mythic...
because its not "bis"?
gritty laurel
no BIS is the 2 hand mace from bandit
sand jewel
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
thorn thorn
uwu, can i join your guild for reclears
humble verge
<:dracthyr_uwu:1002321921460932618>
real onyx
do we not use poison bomb anymore in like m+?
in s1 it was the middle tree, now the guides say the left tree (which shiv stuff)
golden loom
do we not use poison bomb anymore in like m+?
!builds
prisma monolithBOT
Bleed vs Hybrid vs Cleave/FI builds
Broad rules and Section in Guide:
- If you have to ask, you should play bleed
- If you're not doing +17's or higher (or rookery), you should play bleed
Some general concepts as to why people play different things:
- Ease of play: Bleed build is simply the easiest to play due to subterfuge/no kingsbane/less need for giant prio targets
- Boss damage: The cleave/zeross build is mainly for boss damage. Assa single target in keys is pretty bad, and the bosses would not be possible otherwise
- Specific Dungeons: Rookery as an example is very boss-heavy, especially the last boss, making bleed less ideal.
- Where the damage is: Bleed spreads out its damage and does great overall due to sudden demise and powerful 3-8 target damage. Hybrid is competitve but doesn't pull ahead until bigger AoE. Cleave is for single target damage and insanely large aoe because of how much caustic and crimson tempest carry aoe damage.
thorn thorn
humble verge
@maiden sierra possible new gif for BL wa
maiden sierra
<@464166103170678785> possible new gif for BL wa
MORE FRAMES
normal mist
guys im curious if mechano core is bis why is no of the top 100 parses on mythic...
Ever seen a mechano core 680+?
humble verge
MORE FRAMES
i cant
the gif converter restricts it to 7 fps for 40s
atleast ezgifs
i can try another one
balmy condor
@humble verge I require one get jiggy in these trying times
balmy condor
god bless
humble verge
MORE FRAMES
15 frames
wait
this one looks so scuffed
oh nvm
its fine if you click on it and look at it
chrome blaze
is this the 'pandemic' window to refresh stuff optimally and get a longer duration?
prisma monolithBOT
Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs
grim hornet
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
chrome blaze
whats the main difference between the 2 m+ builds, i see one with kingsbane and one without but heavy on the shiv stuff. Certain dungeons?
thorn thorn
One is for 17+ keys, the other is for the rest of the key levels
chrome blaze
oh which one do the noobs use like me
chrome blaze
yeah i assumed it was for like boss dam or theater of pain type situations with alot of ST needed
gotcha ty
kind forge
Wasn’t there a bleed build with FI ?
chrome blaze
doesnt look like any of the m+ builds do FI
chrome blaze
hell yeah i need the +5 build
nova kelp
SOMEONE probably linked one at some point when they realised how much work FI puts in without considering things lol
chrome blaze
step 1-copy pasta build step2 SBA = +5 build
balmy condor
I mean yeah you can run FI for like meme +3 key and snapshot a giga CT for big kaboom
but that's not a build
golden loom
drop tea and BIG demise
nova kelp
drop tea and BIG demise
give it a go for me and let me know lol
balmy condor
doesnt look like any of the m+ builds do FI
cleave build on wowhead does
golden loom
give it a go for me and let me know lol
I have played it like once
balmy condor
that's the one you'll see high key runners play
chrome blaze
oh is that considered 'm+' when i think of a cleave build i always assume raidcleave
nice
balmy condor
there's sections
nova kelp
generally if you see carnage, it's not a raid build by default
balmy condor
section for raid builds, section for m+ builds
chrome blaze
oh yeah i forgot i usually just look at the 'cheat sheet' page and the 4-5 builds they generall highlight there
balmy condor
the table of contents on the left side is something I put a suprising amount of effort into
chrome blaze
but saw on archon that theres a large spread of diff builds so thought id ask about em here
hehe nice. Im reading deep on the rotation page currently
nova kelp
there's a lot of variations that people make to their builds because a lot of talents in sin are "viable"
note the quotations
nova kelp
it is cool, and it's good, but in the current landscape of DH giga stops and such it's not taken often
chrome blaze
makes sense, i mostly just run 10-12s so its probably still good, plenty of tank variety down here
chrome blaze
yeah thats what i was thinking- no one ever kicks
humble verge
but saw on archon that theres a large spread of diff builds so thought id ask ab...
archon
marsh fjord
Is there someone who i can bother to look over a rogue log of mine. i swapped to rogue and did a mythic reclear with a guild but i grey logged.
thorn thorn
Data aggregation sites
chrome blaze
archon <:besad:507266809431326729>
is archon very bulbasuary
nova kelp
Its far from the worst tool, it just scoops up a bunch of shit that people run with
the problem is it's data with a LOT of noise and no context
chrome blaze
i mean i dont use it as a bible or something but theres plenty of info i can get from it alot more quickly than other sites i feel like
chrome blaze
i noticed something odd, so i came here (the real best place for info) to ask about it
royal lantern
i noticed something odd, so i came here (the real best place for info) to ask ab...
i love you
why cant more people be like that
marsh fjord
Can anyone explain to me why we have almost the same amount of envoms but his are doing 400k more DPS.
70 million more damage
golden loom
link log
marsh fjord
I do need to tell you i have only a 10% damage buff in raid
and he has 20
or whatever the max rank damage buff is
haughty flicker
I mean that definitely doesn't help
golden loom
you also potted on pull instead of damage amp
marsh fjord
if you look at my rotation am i doing something completely wrong?
im super new to rogue but i felt like i was doing okay ish
but grey logging feels really shitty
haughty flicker
And he could've just crit more during amp or gotten better poison bomb procs
golden loom
uhh I am just stuck looking at the other guys rotation what on earth
did he do in damage amp
haughty flicker
I'm on phone so can't look at actual stuff
marsh fjord
Im dariann btw
earnest pilot
if you don't have max renown dmg buff you won't get good logs
earnest pilot
better to pick apart your log instead of look at your parse number in your case
marsh fjord
Yeah im trying to pick it apart but i dont know what to look at really.
i really want to improve.
humble verge
i wish i heard the audio of this one
earnest pilot
if you can't read logs at all a decent tool is wow analyzer
its not perfect by any means but its a decent starting ground to look at
just plug ur log in
marsh fjord
Yeah i can read logs. but it didnt really tell me anything in wowanalyer that i could use. except bad refreshments of ruptures
golden loom
Yeah im trying to pick it apart but i dont know what to look at really.
okay some things here, ideally u want the bleeds up before you send deahtmark, also dont swap targets (in this case ambush -> rupture on pit mechanic) mid cd-s especially since the damage amp here is very massive
marsh fjord
Someone told me just press deathmark even if your bleeds are almost falling up. it doesnt matter.
thats why i did it like that
just refresh them when they go below the pandamic
so your saying just refresh them before DM window?
golden loom
yeah I mean you can refresh stuff during cds, but also in this case u cast them as 2 globals just as u send
maiden sierra
marsh fjord
Yeah i doubled ruptured which is bad
earnest pilot
your first cp spender being rupture in your deathmark + shiv is just troll tho\
double rupturing is even worse
better to just sit on your cds and apply rupture then go in
marsh fjord
alright. will do that next time.
and is logging good on rik just a matter of sniping the barrels?
with ruptures
to get energy back?
golden loom
also during deathmark, u wanna use ur 2nd shiv just as your first one runs out
marsh fjord
Am i overlapping it?
nova kelp
lol the 2 ww in my guild runs kill the barrels before I can snipe them
golden loom
so here u for example shiv at 7 seconds, and then the 2nd one at 19 seconds
nova kelp
also I'm lazy
marsh fjord
Yeah i gotta track it better.
golden loom
with shiv being 8 seconds ur kinda missing shiv on the target for a while there at a time where KB already is stacked high and doing big dam
marsh fjord
When do you ideally press the second shiv. when shiv is 6 seconds remaining right?
or do you do it earlier?
golden loom
nah you just press it just as your first shiv runs out
nova kelp
man, if shiv had a pandemic...
golden loom
dm (16 seconds) -> shiv (8 seconds) -> kb (14 seconds) -> boom boom boom (first shiv runs out) -> shiv (8 seconds) -> covers the rest
marsh fjord
nah you just press it just as your first shiv runs out
Sorry i meant when KB is 6 seconds remaining
not shiv
is that not the ideal point where you press the second shiv
golden loom
well for the solo KB (that usually only has 1 shiv charge cause u will dry shiv) u just shiv the last 8 seconds
marsh fjord
Yeah i didnt really dry shiv in these fights
Also i really dont understand why someone is doing more then the double of envemoms damage with only a 10% extra damage buff
golden loom
yeah if u dont then u just send as normal -> shiv before KB -> shiv once that ends
marsh fjord
Its 6% extra damage even
not even 10%
Mine evenoms are average 1.7 mill his are 3.6
all his abilities are doing double then mine. and i dont get it
real pike
Fml the new rogue recruit gapped me tonight
buoyant herald
all his abilities are doing double then mine. and i dont get it
Check for int dagger lol?
main bridge
they are now the CEO of Gapplebees and you have been demoted
buoyant herald
That’s kinda crazy
marsh fjord
Check for int dagger lol?
I checked both are agi LOL
buoyant herald
Everything doing half damage is supercooked, are you just losing massive uptime?
Nah you’ve got similar usage counts
I’m on mobile so hard to check
marsh fjord
Then why is his envenoms doing double my damage?
main bridge
because they are pressing the right buttons at the right time. read the log. all the info is there
pure moth
You should be using envenom right before casting dm. It seems like youre just not optimizing damage increases for gains.
marsh fjord
me casting one envenom before dm is gonna make up other 2 million per envemom cast over a fight?
golden loom
because they are pressing the right buttons at the right time. read the log. all...
I mean the other guy did not press the right buttons during vexie damage amp
marsh fjord
I was looking at rik
golden loom
yeah I know
but in general
might just be a raidbuff + small ilvl + crit rng issue idk
marsh fjord
Like im trying to improve but to improve i gotta know what im doing wrong. and im trying to figure out why his envemom cast are so much bigger then mine.
buoyant herald
Every ability doing half the damage on average is something pretty drastic.
balmy condor
Like im trying to improve but to improve i gotta know what im doing wrong. and i...
rep buff, crit, weapon ilvl, dry shiv
marsh fjord
Every ability doing half the damage on average is something pretty drastic.
Yeah thats why im trying to learn
fresh kelp
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/XR91z4ckCM6tZLYx/self?fight=12%2C1&...
your dsm fell off because you sat on dn for 30s and didnt spend it
pure moth
The other guy definitely had good barrel spawns for caustic as well. So nothing u can do there
marsh fjord
your dsm fell off because you sat on dn for 30s and didnt spend it
This is rik?
fresh kelp
yes
marsh fjord
Or what log is it
golden loom
yeah there are a few darkest night diffies
marsh fjord
That makes also alot of sense
after 3 proc's i always try to get as quick to full CP
but i gotta pay attention to it more then
i appreciate you guys taking a look
fresh kelp
even after intermission ended at 230 ish it took another 45s to apply it to the boss
marsh fjord
yeah that makes sense with DS stacks
without*
that envenom is doing less
Do you think that is the main reason for the difference in envenoms?
main bridge
there have been like 5 reasons named for this so far
haughty flicker
that plus all the other things whispyr named
main bridge
i think Whispyr's suggestions are also something to check
marsh fjord
there have been like 5 reasons named for this so far
I understand muffon. im just trying to get everything soaked in
fresh kelp
its pretty bad
marsh fjord
its pretty bad
I agree
fresh kelp
also the specific timing means you didn't have your hero tree at all for your 2nd deathmark
which is quite bad
balmy condor
dry shiv is a fairly minor overall thing, but like those envenoms hit so hard that it's going to pull the average up significantly
marsh fjord
dry shiv is a fairly minor overall thing, but like those envenoms hit so hard th...
yeah. it's 10 million envenoms obvi that's gonna bump it up
main bridge
i am a muffon
balmy condor
on vexie? entirely possible
buoyant herald
Are they really hitting that hard without damage amps? I’ve only seen it around 15-20 max
Oh ok then
marsh fjord
on vexie? entirely possible
well i was more so talking about rik
balmy condor
yeh then like 15-16
marsh fjord
But dry shiving is after deathmark when lingering shadow is rolling and you can shiv. to proc DN right?
Im asking because im confused
golden loom
nice ability
marsh fjord
yeah
haughty flicker
then just dont pres shiv at the start of the off dm kingsbane
buoyant herald
And that 19m can spatter as well
haughty flicker
gain envenom stonks
marsh fjord
But you shiv before procing the DN proc right
golden loom
But you shiv before procing the DN proc right
ye
haughty flicker
well if you use darkest night before shivving then darkest night is no longer up to fulfil the shiv conditions
so yes
marsh fjord
Yeah oke
Also on Stixx. do you guys even bother rupturing the adds? or do you just let Caustic do the work?
or only rupture one add
golden loom
snipe some ruptures when u need energy on bombshells/scrapmasters
marsh fjord
but for the rest you dont touch them with garrote or anything else
like you dont mut them?
golden loom
like usually when bombshells come out have time to do some ruptures before doing big aoe but
nah u just rupture
like u dont do it for damage, its only for energy
buoyant herald
There’s a good diagram in the pins if you scroll down
golden loom
on stix yeah that guy spatters everything
marsh fjord
ah i see thanks spark
lofty mango
Best rogue spec next patch ?
balmy condor
ask again in a month
buoyant herald
3 weeks of tuning to go brother, then that much again of post-raid open tuning
lofty mango
Ngl I miss DFA sub so I hope it’s sin till that comes back 😥
humble verge
Ngl I miss DFA sub so I hope it’s sin till that comes back 😥
IM NOT THE ONLY ONE 
IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE IM NOT THE ONLY ONE
lofty mango
Legion sub spits on all other specs hands down
humble verge
my faintest memory is playing dfa sub on varimathras
i think i have a pov of it somewhere
from my former guild
lofty mango
What a time to be alive that was
royal lantern
You would DFA into the hole in kingaroth aswell
DfA into the p2 avatar arena 
balmy condor
I bet we also have two legs and drink water
lofty mango
DfA into the p2 avatar arena <:2ez:587982296066424843>
monkaS
haughty flicker
I bet we also have two legs and drink water
very ableist of you
humble verge
whisp, i know where u live - i asked ur the rep ure talking to
haughty flicker
i expected better
humble verge
kidding
royal lantern
I bet we also have two legs and drink water
god i wish i didnt had 2 legs
humble verge
:3
thorn thorn
What the fuck is DFA
lofty mango
The worst one was night hold on star auger 🤣
nova kelp
dfa sub made me love rogue
haughty flicker
What the fuck is DFA
dattle for azeroth
spice surge
"DfA Sub best iteration of sub"
Unironically think the current version is more fun
nova kelp
I was a hunter before dfa sub
spice surge
Except in aoe
balmy condor
Unironically think the current version is more fun
probably is, but missing DFA is like the most white bread opinion to have
lofty mango
You all know doing maw of souls on helya pulling everything in and blowing your load on that pack was amazing
humble verge
i feel like, theres no REAL difference
im still using the somewhat same kind of placements
royal lantern
Unironically think the current version is more fun
let be real
people like DfA cus it was flashy on a class that lacks flashy stuff
nova kelp
that version of sub was actually just more fun in it's dance cycles
lofty mango
Hitting up the back flip mid pull was just the ultimate flex
nova kelp
it wasn't just the flashyness
spice surge
let be real
people like DfA cus it was flashy on a class that lacks flashy stuf...
ye if sectech had a flashy animation subs playrate would triple
nova kelp
hard disagree
spice surge
And wasnt split into 3 hits so we could see a big bang'
royal lantern
ye if sectech had a flashy animation subs playrate would triple
9 people?
haughty flicker
if sectec had kyveza clones sub would instantly be most played rogue spec
lofty mango
Maybe 10
I actually do think sub could pop off next raid due to the amount of adds there is
golden loom
Lowkey if secret tech was just like a kyveza dash -> 1 hit splat for 100m damage -> insta 100 million players
buoyant herald
So star surge numbers then 😂
golden loom
if sectec had kyveza clones sub would instantly be most played rogue spec
Great minds think alike
nova kelp
the dance cycles in legion sub were hella more engaging, and your downtime didn't feel so abrasive as now
lofty mango
But then again sin just puts up bleeds on any adds and shadow steps back and does twice the damage
royal lantern
But then again sin just puts up bleeds on any adds and shadow steps back and doe...
what
lofty mango
I’m talking about the next raid
royal lantern
are mfs still acting as if sub is weak
and not the meta raid spec for 6 tiers in a row now
spice surge
So star surge numbers then 😂
I mean its already doing like 30M
lofty mango
When adds are more spread
spice surge
But ye 100m is quite a lot more
lofty mango
Specifically
royal lantern
did you ever look at rupture dmg
lofty mango
Sub is 100% not weak but it was crap in NP
royal lantern
Sub is 100% not weak but it was crap in NP
????
spice surge
What
lofty mango
Just boring bosses for sub IMO
haughty flicker
spice surge
As always it was sub being quite ok, then assa gets buffed by like 6% and everybody specs assa
royal lantern
tier starts->first month of the tier adds need to get burst down and sub is the best spec in the game for that, assa is kinda low tuned->assa gets a 5% aura buff+adds are not a problem anymore cus people are geared->people stop playing sub
repeat next tier
nova kelp
to be fair, the large majority of players/guilds sit within a bracket that take long enough for them to not recognise sub as being meta considering that
lofty mango
You think the downtime is the problem with sub ?
nova kelp
by the time they start serious prog, it's POST the sin updates
royal lantern
You think the downtime is the problem with sub ?
what are you trying to say there
lofty mango
No I’m asking if you think more people would play it if down time was not a problem
royal lantern
??? downtime is a Problem for every melee in the game
woven ruin
More people would play it if it wasn't a mess
spice surge
He means downtime in the rotation
lofty mango
Not as much for other specs
spice surge
Not being out of melee
nova kelp
rotation downtime
golden loom
to be fair, the large majority of players/guilds sit within a bracket that take ...
Yeah by the end of NP assa is somehow top 3 single target and was great on add fights
thorn thorn
Thats just a burst spec in a nutshell
lofty mango
Not really you can say that about arcane mage it’s a burst spec but it has alot less than sub does
thorn thorn
Caster
spice surge
Idk the problem is that the "flexibility" of being able to use your dances kinda whenever you want
thorn thorn
Casters are different
spice surge
Is what fucks people because theres no hard rules on what to do
thorn thorn
You can always do something in downtime
spice surge
So peoples brains explode
lofty mango
I know but it’s just an example
royal lantern
well, the main Problem with sub is that it looks complicated, and has too many things pushed into few abilitys
nova kelp
downtime is a problem in the sense that in the rotatioon downtime you do basically nothing at all - even more so you force yourself to do less than you might be ABLE to so that you can bank shit correctly
lofty mango
Like sitting there essentially waiting for your cds and just pressing filler spells is not exiting game play
nova kelp
the cycle doesn't CYCLE
lofty mango
^
spice surge
Like sitting there essentially waiting for your cds and just pressing filler spe...
True, but the bang makes it worthwhile
nova kelp
people prefer when the cycle is more intuitive overall
haughty flicker
i do love to bang
lofty mango
True, but the bang makes it worthwhile
I agree but there is just too much between
marsh fjord
i was reading about supercharger. if you shiv and CP is supercharged. you still go to +5 combo points right?
nova kelp
which is why "DFA Sub" was loved, the DFA sub had a cycle that was easy to understand
marsh fjord
it doesnt work like echo reprimand right. that you consume that combo point for a full CP one
lofty mango
Like it’s a 30 second sprint then a 1 minute walk kinda un egaging
spice surge
i was reading about supercharger. if you shiv and CP is supercharged. you still ...
You can use it earlier, but its not worth, better to just stick to the standard rules
lofty mango
Engaging
lofty mango
Like it’s a 30 second sprint then a 1 minute walk kinda un egaging
Exaggerating btw
nova kelp
I think the worst thing about subs current rotation downtime is that during it, ALL you're doing is WAITING and finding an eventual excuse to press rupture
marsh fjord
You can use it earlier, but its not worth, better to just stick to the standard ...
Is this also the reason why some times. when supercharged is up and im not 7 combo points Darkest night still get consumed.
humble verge
@balmy condor
lofty mango
Also the supercharged combo point bs needs to go
I’m sorry that’s the worst thing going
nova kelp
charged cp is a problem?