assassination

[neon lantern]

Yea, isn't leech a part of the tree?

[tall pumice]

Only ones given trouble are the undermine dudes

I use a m+ build so who knows

If you want just use the delve build

I got like 8 or 10% leech

So some coems from my gear

Use ur stuns interrupts damage reductions and whatever the ability that lets you dodge all attacks

[spice surge]

7.2% of your leech is from leeching poison

So yes its from the tree

[haughty flicker]

its also all garbage

[cosmic sandal]

Idk wtf I’m just playing next patch, am I maining assassin this patch? Is it looking solid or same same

[buoyant herald]

for the next few weeks assass is fine, tuning still happening so who knows for next

[haughty flicker]

my uncle said assa is going to be bad at the start but get buffed week 3

[cosmic sandal]

Yeah literally, I just want to get my toons up to scratch so i can jump into 0’s on launch lmao

[haughty flicker]

so use that as you will

[cosmic sandal]

I trust unc

[tall pumice]

Oh yeah not sure how it works since I just started playing this season (last I played was like 8 years ago when all I did was press whatever button lit up) how does gearing work when seasons change

Do current tww2 gear just become invalid and tier set bonus off

[earnest remnant]

Ilvl drops get bumped up + new Dungeons and raid

So you just slowly swap out the gear

Tiersets still works

[plucky stream]

If your using bleed build tho

Your trolling if you aren’t using mouse over for garrote and rupture imo

Same for kicks if no focus is found for mouse over

[tall pumice]

Wdym

[plucky stream]

Mouse over macro to apply them

They said assassination needs only 2 macros

[tall pumice]

I need macros

[plucky stream]

I think you need those additional 2

[tall pumice]

I hate manually applying dot

[plucky stream]

Yeah mouse over is way better to manage bleeds properly with plater

[tall pumice]

Ima check it out

[plucky stream]

In m+ with bigger pulls

Same with mouse over kick and mouse over kidney shot, cheap shot

The kick and KS/CS should be coded in the macro to prioritize focus target if no focus target is found then mouse over

[tall pumice]

Not kidding at this point I just ambush+ garrote and then whatever that aoe ability is again and then spam garrote + rupture since I can’t see who got what

In the 6 seconds before the ability stops cleaving

[plucky stream]

Ye you just need a good plater cause u can see the bleeds above name plates with timers on garrote, rupture

[tall pumice]

Ahhh I’ve seen those on yt always wondered what they were

[plucky stream]

I didn’t like the platers they had here cause I’m used to the one I been using all season and it works fine for rogue as well

[spice surge]

You should probably be playing the bleed build instead

[plucky stream]

Whysprs edit or w/e is horrible for me on m+ cause I can’t find prio kicks cause it makes all the enemy name plates small af and your target big

[plucky stream]

Yeah this part too bleed build is better for anything under a 17

[tall pumice]

That’s what I’m playing

[plucky stream]

But like I don’t think you can get over 3k without have macros for ur kicks, kidney shots and cheap shot imo

[tall pumice]

True that

[plucky stream]

Cause that’s like the big part of higher keys is just kicking and cc

Hard stops

[tall pumice]

Will look into it at work right now so wish I could

[spice surge]

Then your garrotes and rupture cleave for 12s, not 6

[spice surge]

10000000% can

[plucky stream]

I’m only 3.1k and that’s not on rogue tho so I’m sure other ppl here have much better knowledge on shit.

[spice surge]

Cheap shot and kidney are insanely rarely used, wouldnt really bother with an extra bind to have it hit focus

[plucky stream]

Sure u can but I’m also sure you’ll have a harder time playing the game and being spot on with interrupts imo

[tall pumice]

Yeah I get shit from some 3000 m+ score people for not interrupting when I’ve kicked over 20 times just usually right after they interrupt

[spice surge]

But yes focus kick is good

[plucky stream]

Eh I disagree

[tall pumice]

Is that with vanish?

I swear mines 6

[plucky stream]

I’ve used CS and KS a lot when ppl are kicking in between hard stops

And blind as well

A good example of this is in flood gate on the demolition guy

You can literally cc him as a rogue the entire pull

[spice surge]

Vanish and stealth

[tall pumice]

Yeah thought so

I forgot but does vanish have anything that reduces its cooldown

I typically forget to use it

I need to setup my rogue properly

[plucky stream]

If ur using bleed build in m+ I would personally hold vanish for when the darn tank chain pulls and u can’t resteslth

Or u can just vanish on longer pulls to apply bleeds on everyone again with improved garrote

[tall pumice]

That the thing

My tanks have a shared brain cell among all of them

They overpull lose agro and die

[rotund oak]

these two last lines hide the biggest truth

even experienced rogues forget this specific thing

or try to squeeze dmg by edging their cds in such a way they would die

its obvious by now but never,EVER put urself into a situation that u might die

u cant do dmg if u are dead

[waxen oyster]

You can bruteforce 3k

no one is pressing cheap

[worn geyser]

I can’t even think of one circumstance I ever needed a focus kidney macro for keys lmao

Maybe heresy but I don’t even have cheap on my bars

[runic hinge]

I have not pressed cheap the whole season and kidney is almost always for trying to keep the one 5% hp mob from following the tank while he goes off “chaining”

[worn geyser]

That’s where 90% of my kidneys are too lmao

Just slam a 7 sec stun on that 50 mil health soldier before the next mega pull

[runic hinge]

Exactly. I get my stealth off and the tank gets to feel like he’s doing a good job

[tall pumice]

I just don’t have anything setup for rogue that is macros or whatnot

I never die in keys unless tank loses agro or dies

I still top in damage because of my dot

[iron carbon]

You don't need macro to play

[icy geyser]

we shoud evenom before or after deathmark?

[iron carbon]

Depends which build you play

[balmy condor]

envenom before if you're playing kingsbane

if you're not playing kingsbane then nothing matters just slam the deathmark onto something

[icy geyser]

bleed

[balmy condor]

yeh

bleed build deathmark exists to duplicate bleeds

for the most part you can just drop it on something and ignore it

[icy geyser]

thx

[iron carbon]

I always drop it after envenom cuz I'm used to

Buyeah, Whispyr said everything

[balmy condor]

yeh the thing is that without kingsbane, deathmark loses like 80% of its interactions

like you're not running kingsbane, so doubled poisons don't matter cause you're not ramping anything

you don't even need to hit the mob technically cause no double amp poison

so there's no special envenom buff

[spice surge]

Double bleed for demisemaxxing

[balmy condor]

only thing you really get out of it would be double deadly poison procs

but that's so giga whatever

unironically with bleed build on random packs of mobs you can just slam it at like 40% or something

and let zoldyck do the work

[icy geyser]

I should switch to hybrid build only after 16's key where things live loner?

[balmy condor]

probably higher than that

bleed build has timed 20's and 21's

[icy geyser]

assa received some buffs from last ptr build?

[spice surge]

Nop

[balmy condor]

unless there's a very clear and obvious reason as to why you need to min-max for consistently insanely large aoe or super long boss fights, the build you play doesn't particularly matter

what little logs there are from higher keys basically have all the builds doing about the same overall

[haughty flicker]

what matters is which one will be higher on details

[balmy condor]

at that level it's a lot of coping

its not more damage, but its BETTER damage cause you're doing the damage to THIS THING instead

type of shit

esoteric garble that 99.99% of the community doesn't need to ever think about

[royal hazel]

!plater

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[icy geyser]

for M+ we will run with this trinket if not changed?

[balmy condor]

possible

2min stat on use

looks fine to me

[icy geyser]

and as a passive one we go with peacemaker?

[balmy condor]

sure, probably fine too

trinket for cd burst and trinket for bonus stats?

sounds like every trinket combo for the last 4 expansions

couldn't be bad now

[icy geyser]

we macro this trinket with crimson vial KEKW

[spice surge]

Theres a delve trinket that reads like it procs when you get a killing blow

Which could be good since we always get killing blows

[icy geyser]

[balmy condor]

funny that you think sudden demise would count for that

in this video game?

[spice surge]

Fair enough, maybe it doesnt

[haughty flicker]

that would be pretty funny if it did work

[balmy condor]

all I know is that it'll be unplayable for sub because it'll give kill credit to sectec clones

cause of course it will

[spice surge]

It also procs haste

So

[balmy condor]

haste will be good for sub

mark my words

17.2.5 sub rework

haste BiS

[spice surge]

[balmy condor]

[icy geyser]

they should fully rework outlaw, to be more easier to play for new players

[spice surge]

But the 90th percentile logs from ptr testing i saw on the sheet aint stacking haste so

[balmy condor]

holy shit the urge to call you a fucking slur

my blood pressure

ragebait goes crazy

I'm so sick of spreadsheets man

[haughty flicker]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[bronze pike]

i just saw this trinket

is it good?

do we have to farm it next season?

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna fracture you

[bronze pike]

[spice surge]

That wasnt the one i was talking about either, theres one with a haste proc

[buoyant herald]

that one looks nice for outlaw maybe if you can get one early

[bronze pike]

but with the drs in season 3

[buoyant herald]

this one?

[bronze pike]

it makes more sense to default to verse

cause ya know

we are hitting the statbreakpoints

right whispyr?

[haughty flicker]

shades of grieftorch

i miss her

[buoyant herald]

there's also this thing

energy drink all over

[spice surge]

Ye that one seems uh, insane

[haughty flicker]

stack both

sudden demise gaming

[buoyant herald]

they're delve trinkets though, so will cap out before 723 ilvl right

is 723 myth?

[spice surge]

723 is myth maxxed yes

[haughty flicker]

seems like it would be annoying to try and play around

[spice surge]

So 710 is delve hc

[buoyant herald]

yah

[haughty flicker]

even if you gaurenteed every last hit with demise

[buoyant herald]

still insane though

[spice surge]

Yep but the numbers are silly high so well see

Probably takes a nerf

[haughty flicker]

yeah thats a fuck ton of mastery

[buoyant herald]

procs for your last 10s of KB/DM easy game

every time

believe

[iron carbon]

That's why 1 button rotation exists

And outlaw got a fcking easy build..

[icy geyser]

but they lose like what? 25% overall?

[iron carbon]

So get good and learn the spec

I mean, that's how it works

[crisp leaf]

Didnt an article come out that 1 button was still better than like 80% of playerbase for a lot of specs?

[iron carbon]

I'm.not surprised

[severe silo]

The most difficult thing about the outlet is its APM. Which makes them give up playing it

[buoyant herald]

People were reporting like 75/80 parses in heroic using it yeah

[steel ridge]

@scarlet nexus are you streaming tonight?

[rotund oak]

that might take some time but we dont rly use macros these days anyway.We surely macro tea on shiv and forget about it,its practically no dps loss.Other than that focus kicks/stops is the highend tech in keys,couple other minors to end with all

always want to macro pots/trinkets on ur dmg windows etc

stuff like that

[gloomy heart]

https://tenor.com/view/chipi-chapa-chipi-chipi-chipi-chipi-cat-chipi-chipi-dancing-cat-gif-10997735880837555564

[zenith elm]

Good morning fellow rogues

[buoyant herald]

how do you do

[humble verge]

@balmy condor for you

[keen spruce]

[keen spruce]

It’s 1am

[worn geyser]

we are cooked

[keen spruce]

If you haven’t gone to sleep

It’s still the 4th

https://tenor.com/view/america-patriotic-eagle-usa-patriotism-gif-9438241

[worn geyser]

gotta make the freedom laast as long as possible

[keen spruce]

I’m heading to poker game number 2

[zenith elm]

i'm fine and you?

[buoyant herald]

yeah not bad, not bad

[zenith elm]

its a good day for roguing

[buoyant herald]

aren't they all

[humble verge]

https://open.spotify.com/track/6CLv2AVvpRC6u84L6e79OS?si=vrvuwdmDSUajPbxI3rbp1Q you should listen to this

its your pfp singing 😎

[zenith elm]

I'm listening to it rn 😄

love it

i'll play it on repeat on raid days

[plucky stream]

thats diabolical comms

rogues have very little to offer for groups already

you should do urself a service to others by helping rotate in kicks/cc best u can by locking things up that are prio targets with ks and cs

when possible and it makes sense ofc

[static glacier]

focus kidney? bruh

kidney on any target is rare enough as is

[plucky stream]

yeah what are you tab targeting to kidney shot

or u clicking lol

[static glacier]

if I have to kidney a mob i'll manually target it

[plucky stream]

cause 9/10 times when i am hitting a ks its cause I see all kicks are down in group

and no hard stops up

and if that casts it'll prob result in that guy burning his defensive or getting 1 shot

[static glacier]

id say I cast kidney like

0-3 times a key

usually

[plucky stream]

o yea thats good

[static glacier]

nowhere near enough to make focus setup worthwhile

[plucky stream]

that seems pretty accurate ye

how are u hitting ur kidneys tho accurately

cause they're pretty last second I would say when I realize I need to

[static glacier]

mobs that have important abilities / casts

have different coloured plater

I normally would target step kick or kidney as needed

unless ik im next to the mob

[plucky stream]

fair

I just emphasize kicking and stops for all and any classes when possible and offered by them

[icy geyser]

!spreedsheet

!spreadsheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plucky stream]

u do have ppl brute forcing 3k who rlly should be 2.5k but gear carries them

[static glacier]

if you want to focus macro kidney ain't nothing stopping people

[plucky stream]

and they dont know what a kick or stop is

they're just lucky for groups picking up kicks for them

[icy geyser]

what embelisment do we run on gear?

on weapon I have dark ascension. do I need to recraft it?

[plucky stream]

I have ascension on my wep

and then double effect 1 on my boots

[static glacier]

nah thats fine

highkey embelishments barely matter

they're all tiny gains ad pretty close to eachother

[sharp viper]

@balmy condorfound your secret evoker

[humble verge]

https://tenor.com/view/forrest-gump-wave-hello-hi-sup-gif-16159238468026206620

hiya

[spice surge]

Generally theres multiple mobs that needs to be stopped anyway, so me using kidney doesnt really do anything since well be using aoe stops on the other 2 casters anyway

But obviously your mileage may vary a lot in pugs

[buoyant herald]

kidney is usually like...last resort on a missed kick

[icy geyser]

how does sudden demise work? I was with another assa rogue in key, his sudden demise did by the 2nd boss 200m, mine did only 10m and don't know what am I doing wrong. should I go in vanish and reapply bleeds when pack is under 35%?

[buoyant herald]

i think sudden demise cannabalised other sudden demise

like if his procs before yours you get nothing

so he's had more bleed damage loaded up than you

[icy geyser]

but is there any trick behind it on how I should approach it, or just mentain bleeds on target and just reapply when they are about to expire?

[normal mist]

That's it yeah

Reapply when they are about to expire

And 2 ass rogues I in the same key is cringe for one of them

Usually the one with + ilvl (if playing bleed) will get more executes

[icy geyser]

exactly the case here

[normal mist]

It's not a skill issue or anything, he just does more damage overall, so he reaches the execute threshold easier than you

[royal lantern]

higher ilvl = more stats = stuff has more base dmg = sudden demise triggers on higher health and will execute before you can

[rancid prism]

I am hyped for s3 guys, can’t wait for a piano falling on my head while walking down the street.

[normal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/what-what-the-what-the-hell-wtf-gif-8562994133044611418

[solemn echo]

https://tenor.com/view/gfleave-gif-20219429

[iron carbon]

Use shiv at < 35%

It will boost your damages aswell

[thorn thorn]

@fallow canopy
@rotund oak
@humble verge
@normal mist

[thorn thorn]

Real

[maiden sierra]

God i love these, they never make any sense

[main bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/the-dude-abide-the-big-lebowski-stir-gif-3523187

[zenith elm]

Heyyyy nice 😁😁😁

[humble verge]

its not nice 😭

[zenith elm]

No i mean the videos

Not the deflated usagi ofc

Much sad, RIP in peace

[sick vale]

So many specs for m+ which one it best?

Some going without Kingsbane and some with

[main bridge]

!bleed

[prisma monolith]

Bleed vs Hybrid vs Cleave/FI builds
Broad rules and Section in Guide:

1. If you have to ask, you should play bleed
2. If you're not doing +17's or higher (or rookery), you should play bleed

Some general concepts as to why people play different things:

• Ease of play: Bleed build is simply the easiest to play due to subterfuge/no kingsbane/less need for giant prio targets
• Boss damage: The cleave/zeross build is mainly for boss damage. Assa single target in keys is pretty bad, and the bosses would not be possible otherwise
• Specific Dungeons: Rookery as an example is very boss-heavy, especially the last boss, making bleed less ideal.
• Where the damage is: Bleed spreads out its damage and does great overall due to sudden demise and powerful 3-8 target damage. Hybrid is competitve but doesn't pull ahead until bigger AoE. Cleave is for single target damage and insanely large aoe because of how much caustic and crimson tempest carry aoe damage.

[main bridge]

wowhead goes over the differences between the builds as well

[sick vale]

Thanks’

So bleed with kingsbane?

[main bridge]

no - look at the first bullet

[red schooner]

Bleed doesn't run kingsbane

[sick vale]

Oh my

Blind af

[zenith elm]

Best part of the day

[rotund oak]

[zenith elm]

[fallow canopy]

[zenith elm]

Munch munch munch

[errant swallow]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[worn geyser]

Has worked in 18s without it , just target it and kidney it lmao in the rare situation you need to?

If u have to kidney somewhat frequently it means someone is fucking up their cc rotation or kicks or u pulled too much for ur groups cc capabilities

[normal mist]

@rotund oak

https://tenor.com/view/brooke-adams-gender-reveal-videorem-its-a-girl-reveal-gif-12002568

[humble verge]

newborn?

[rotund oak]

Congratulations brother,happy and healthy and wishes for the BEST!!! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

[normal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/thank-you-gif-16890160374034355907

[normal mist]

will be, in a few months

[fallow canopy]

Congrats King, wish you all the best

[runic hinge]

Congratz!

[normal mist]

Thank you Homies, ♥

[wary light]

Enjoy the baby! I didn't start myth raiding until after my son and it focussed my time a bunch towards prog etc in the 1-2 nights I could spare, hope you find some blasting time!

[normal mist]

4 more months until she's out here with us

[slim copper]

for next season, I'm assuming one of the trinkets we will want to use is Sigil of the Cosmic Hunt? Seems kinda cracked

[coral ibex]

who knows

depends on balancing

[shy heron]

I guess it depends on how everything shakes out. Bomb trinket out of tazavesh usually sims pretty well

[coral ibex]

which is subject to a lot of change

[wary light]

Hopefully a lot of strong contenders, makes for nicer vaults!

[pliant remnant]

Gonna miss K.U.-J.O.'s Flame Vents

[spare kayak]

This trinket looks like an outlaw thing. I want stats, nom nom

[obtuse furnace]

!rotation

!bleed

[prisma monolith]

Bleed vs Hybrid vs Cleave/FI builds
Broad rules and Section in Guide:

1. If you have to ask, you should play bleed
2. If you're not doing +17's or higher (or rookery), you should play bleed

Some general concepts as to why people play different things:

• Ease of play: Bleed build is simply the easiest to play due to subterfuge/no kingsbane/less need for giant prio targets
• Boss damage: The cleave/zeross build is mainly for boss damage. Assa single target in keys is pretty bad, and the bosses would not be possible otherwise
• Specific Dungeons: Rookery as an example is very boss-heavy, especially the last boss, making bleed less ideal.
• Where the damage is: Bleed spreads out its damage and does great overall due to sudden demise and powerful 3-8 target damage. Hybrid is competitve but doesn't pull ahead until bigger AoE. Cleave is for single target damage and insanely large aoe because of how much caustic and crimson tempest carry aoe damage.

[obtuse furnace]

!bleedtalents

!bleedbuild

[golden loom]

here you go bossman

[rocky forum]

yo, I've been playing bleed build in keys and I feel my boss damage is lower than it should be (I know not the strength of the build), I know we want to keep energy above 150 for sanguiney, but do we maintain that even if we only have rupture up and don't have a crimson tempest up? Also, is it worth dipping below 150 to get deathstalker mark up faster or just play it slow?

[obtuse furnace]

@golden loom tyell me

[coral ibex]

sanguine is the lowest priority other than envenom

[obtuse furnace]

does this build make rutpure hit additional target

[golden loom]

yeah, indiscriminate carnage makes rupture/garotte spread to 2 additional targets in/after stealth

[obtuse furnace]

ok so when my tank pulls mobs

i go

fan of knives>crimson tempest

and then fan of knives>apply rupture to all

and then what

[coral ibex]

no

please read the guide

none of that sounds right

[obtuse furnace]

what guide

i cant open wowhead

[coral ibex]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[obtuse furnace]

ok

[coral ibex]

huh

[obtuse furnace]

ill read

method

[golden loom]

well usually you would ambush -> garotte -> garrote -> rupture -> rupture -> garrote (if targets still dont have garrote on them) -> mutilate for (caustic) -> ct -> cds boom bam bosh

read the wowhead guide

[golden loom]

o

[obtuse furnace]

can u screenshot me

wowhead guide

in dm

[golden loom]

well its pretty long 😄

but I guess method guide maybe is fine (should also be written by whispyr I think) or u could vpn for wowhead

[obtuse furnace]

cba with vpn and shit

fu ck that site anyway

[coral ibex]

[obtuse furnace]

ok so basicly i want garrote on every mob

[coral ibex]

no

[golden loom]

well yeah

[coral ibex]

you can't maintain more than one garrote outside stealth

[golden loom]

during carnage you build with garrote as long as there are targets without garrote

[obtuse furnace]

fk i need to learn alot about this class

i played sub but idk man

its even harder xd

[golden loom]

but yeah, after the 12 second carnage window you should only re-apply garrote on the main target

unless its low target count

there u would also re-apply garrote

[obtuse furnace]

kk

i see

so starting combat from stealth is essential

[golden loom]

depends

good chain pulling is good, but usually you want to open from stealth yeah

[coral ibex]

wasting time to get a restealth is usually a loss

spend more time in combat

that means you do more damage

[icy geyser]

why does my log show online that I did 2.4m overall, but in game I was at 2.75m?

[coral ibex]

you cleaved mobs that dont count

[icy geyser]

like big momma adds?

[past marten]

Details only counts active time

[icy geyser]

bleed builds sucks in boss dmg

[obtuse furnace]

well bosses are 20% of dungeon anyway

[normal mist]

Correct

[royal lantern]

wowhead is banned in some countrys

kinda sucks

[royal lantern]

assa sucks in boss dmg

unless you go 100% boss dmg focused (which means taking big hits for your AoE)

[obtuse furnace]

sub is kinda better for boss fights in general?

[spice surge]

Only stay over 50% when you do not have shiv up, when you dont have darkest night active and when you have all of your bleeds up

Which is generally not that often, so you can kinda ignore the 50% thing

[spice surge]

Details counts active time in the dungeon (aka when youre in combat)
Logs count all the time youre in the dungeon

[icy geyser]

they should address our ST in s3...feels bad to see yourself under the tank, at 666 ilvl

you start strong with cd's and slowly fall down

[rocky forum]

also, for shiv in m+ we want to use 2 shivs during our deathmark, for the other 2 we just use them right after a crimson tempest or is there a better time?

[royal lantern]

well, if you play sub in m+ you do less aoe dmg

[winged quail]

Trading singletarget for AoE is something more talent trees should do, and based off the Frost DK changes it's the direction Blizzard are moving in

[royal lantern]

assa is really high consistent aoe but has bad boss dmg as a payoff

kinda how it is

[obtuse furnace]

bro i find sub easier to play

i think

[icy geyser]

what about frost dk?

[cursive frost]

Been away all of S2, do we not run iron wire in keys anymore?

[haughty flicker]

what about love

[fallow canopy]

Don't let it slip away

[rotund oak]

love is overrated unless its unconditional

e.g how ur dog loves u or your parents

[haughty flicker]

i dont have a dog or parents

[hallow glade]

i mean assa boss dam is crazy if you play around it

perhaps among the best in the game

[icy geyser]

on big mamma, we spam fok and spend cp's on finishers?

[rotund oak]

im sorry to hear that

[feral wasp]

quick question, should i consume clear the witness on ST ?

[hallow glade]

!fok

[prisma monolith]

Fok Conditions Post-Buff
Fan of Knives as a generator to replace ambush/mutilate:

• Baseline 3+ targets, -1 if talented into momentum of despair and thrown precision, +1 if talented into vicious venoms, +1 if talented into blindside. (Generally 5 with raid build, 3 with Bleed m+, 2 with Hybrid m+)
  Fan of Knives with Clear the Witnesses Up:
• Baseline 2+ targets, -1 if lingering darkness is up or you aren't talented into vicious venoms. With Vicious Venoms casting during lingering darkness is dps neutral.
  Fan of Knives with Darkest Night Up:
• Only on 2+ targets, or without Vicious Venoms talented. This is also a very very minor optimization

The most important to remember is the generator rules, clear the witnesses and darkest night optimizations can be effectively ignored as they are not meaningful DPS improvements

[hallow glade]

depends on build

and if lingering is up

and target count

[feral wasp]

rhanks

[red schooner]

Raid team recruited a new rogue, I'm in danger

[main bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/chuckles-im-in-danger-ralph-wiggum-the-simpsons-gif-14149962

on the other hand maybe the competition will make you both try harder and play better

[red schooner]

The internal paranoid voice is saying I'm in danger

And he talks louder than the rational voice

So I'm inclined to believe him

[spice surge]

Ye the remaining ones are used whenever you have your bleeds up

You can hold and move them around as you wish

[royal lantern]

utility choice but you lose some dmg for it

[royal lantern]

whats your WR

[red schooner]

1370-something

[brittle lark]

In ST, if i dry shiv with forced induction, do i still wanna use the subsequent envenom with 7 CP? Or i guess the question would be, do the additional 3 CP off of forced induction make the envenom count as 10CP, thus doing higher dmg?
And another similar question: Inside my CDs, if forced induction supercharges my second CP (making the finisher used count as 5 CP), do i just use my envenom on that? Or do i still try to build to 5 CP for finishers?

[red schooner]

We ain't good

But we try

[royal lantern]

well, there is a REALLY high chance that he just guild hops if he is better then you then lol

[golden loom]

the darkest night after dry shiv deffo wants to be a 7 pointer

since ur blowing a shiv charge for it

[red schooner]

if he can dodge swirlies he could probably guild hop

[spice surge]

Yes it counts as 10 CP, but you dont play around supercharger points at all

[golden loom]

but finisher rules are 5+, only go to 7 for darkest night, and supercharger doesnt change it, except that you can kinda freely do stuff here and there

but idk, dry shiving and then doing a 4+3 darkest night sounds super wrong

[brittle lark]

Aight, if i´m supposed to still follow 5+/7CP that´s my question answered. Thanks alot!

[hexed frost]

decide to try out sub rogue during last month of the season
Get into a 17 DFC group
"Oh but I thought you were assa"
Instantly kicked
Revert back to assa and apply to the same group
"Lol should've told us before you are assa main"

[main bridge]

nice

[red schooner]

thats when you join the key and swap to outlaw for maximum confusion

[hexed frost]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[hallow glade]

That is the correct way to get into keys as sub btw

[buoyant herald]

if you can't handle me at my sub you don't deserve me at my assa 😤

[cosmic robin]

i dont get the feels with sub

[hallow glade]

Get your vibe checked

[buoyant herald]

👨‍⚕️

[runic basin]

Hello???When rogue buffs?

[red schooner]

I'm currently consulting the orb

[fallow canopy]

🔮

[hallow glade]

https://tenor.com/view/milhosue-milhouse-milhouse8ball-gif-27260687

Looking good for rogue

[marsh fjord]

When using the Forced induction build or the hybrid build. we don't use CT on ST right?

[hallow glade]

Yes

[marsh fjord]

cool ty

[worn geyser]

how does the wound poison thing work on cinderbrew, do u just swap to it and gg thats it ?

cause ive tried it before but it didnt reduce thewir healing

[hallow glade]

Swap deadly to wound before the pull, it needs to stack up 5x

Only reduces the healing to about 80% or so of their health, because I think they overheal themselves quite a bit

If you don’t have improved wound it probably won’t make much difference

[worn geyser]

oh bet bet

ty

[icy geyser]

how much should sudden demise be in our overall dmg?

[hallow glade]

3-50%

[balmy condor]

You can’t really control it and it depends on the key level since sudden demise is effectively flat damage

It’ll always be doing just for example 1 million damage

So if you’re doing 1 million damage to a mob with 100 million hp

Vs a mob with 5 million

The % is gonna swing wildly

[marsh fjord]

I was testing some top gear sims. and i simmed a 681 crafted ring against circlet and it gives me 1% extra DPS does that seem right?

[main bridge]

it's possible

[tacit hedge]

What macro do you guys use for shiv?

[main bridge]

!shiv

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[tacit hedge]

ty

[balmy condor]

Sounds normal yes

[waxen oyster]

@haughty flicker forgot to link this the other day

for the cds still up

[frank karma]

outside of DM and KB, do we just want to keep envenom duration up 100% and bleeds?

[coral ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/mhw-monster-hunter-monster-hunter-wilds-finger-point-gif-15920010080149579513

[haughty flicker]

huge

[waxen oyster]

Basically tells you what people had up when they died

[waxen oyster]

[haughty flicker]

i need it to know what i had up when i died

[balmy condor]

darkest night envenom > bleeds > spamming envenom > idk, scratching your ass > envenom uptime

[waxen oyster]

I feel on rogue

[haughty flicker]

playing hunter and feels like im a fucking dry leaf

[waxen oyster]

you just feint when you feel unsafe

oh huter

[humble verge]

we love scratching ass

[haughty flicker]

ye not rogue

rogue i just feint

ez

[coral ibex]

when are they gonna make feint free

[humble verge]

why feint when u can FEIN FEIN FEIN

[frank karma]

hahaha tyty

[waxen oyster]

The weakaura pack i got for shaman has an anchor to playerframe with all the defensives tracked

its great when i go into a delve and a mob whitehit crit procs natures guardian instantly

[haughty flicker]

mobs looks in my general direction and suddenly theres a small turtle standing on my head

[topaz cedar]

that bleed build ST thing where staying above 50% energy is a damage increase, so do i only ever envenom when I'm like 50% + 40energy or more? And envenom during DM window?

[balmy condor]

staying above 50% is an insanely minor min-max that you should only consider when there is legit nothing else happening in the rotation

no darkest night, no bleeds needing to be refreshed, no cooldowns, no lingering darkness, etc etc etc

realistically the window where you could think about it is roughly 20-25% of your rotation

you get a couple seconds before shivs generally

but like, it's so minor that you really don't need to care

[topaz cedar]

Ah okay can just do the the usual with the addition of CT

[balmy condor]

ye

[topaz cedar]

Tyty

[eternal iris]

I think only important thing about energy is to not waste thistle tea on autoproc, so the CDs align better no?

[balmy condor]

no

reading back, that seems vague

that is a no as in "the thistle tea thing doesn't matter"

and not a no as in "it's not the only important thing"

[sudden mauve]

thanks for elaborating

[lavish grotto]

question, sorry if its been asked is there a mastery cap for pvp sin rogue?? like at some point should i go for more vers, over what i have now which is 38% mastery in pvp

[hollow river]

#pvp and no there are no stat caps

[lavish grotto]

copy so the more the merrier, thank you fren

[hollow river]

Ye, 38% is quite low

[lavish grotto]

ugh i love bad news thank you poppi

[hollow river]

If you check the pins in #pvp there’s links to sites where you can see what most people use

[lavish grotto]

thank you

[hollow river]

[worn geyser]

!fok

[prisma monolith]

Fok Conditions Post-Buff
Fan of Knives as a generator to replace ambush/mutilate:

• Baseline 3+ targets, -1 if talented into momentum of despair and thrown precision, +1 if talented into vicious venoms, +1 if talented into blindside. (Generally 5 with raid build, 3 with Bleed m+, 2 with Hybrid m+)
  Fan of Knives with Clear the Witnesses Up:
• Baseline 2+ targets, -1 if lingering darkness is up or you aren't talented into vicious venoms. With Vicious Venoms casting during lingering darkness is dps neutral.
  Fan of Knives with Darkest Night Up:
• Only on 2+ targets, or without Vicious Venoms talented. This is also a very very minor optimization

The most important to remember is the generator rules, clear the witnesses and darkest night optimizations can be effectively ignored as they are not meaningful DPS improvements

[worldly night]

What belt option we taking now days? Mastery?

[balmy condor]

pins

[main bridge]

hello sin gamers i hope you are having a lovely evening

[spice spire]

no u

[main bridge]

ever see someone die to the castigator's shield on 2nd boss priory?

i just saw it for the first time

i'm in awe

[buoyant herald]

What ability is that even

[haughty flicker]

big circles

[buoyant herald]

The big circles?

[fallow canopy]

the big circle

[buoyant herald]

Yeah I’ve seen it

[main bridge]

and it was a paladin too so they could have used freedom to walk faster if they needed

[buoyant herald]

Greedcasting

Haven’t seen it on melee lol

[spice spire]

greed casting from a screen away

[main bridge]

shindigs called rogue mid on PTR

[plucky stream]

https://gyazo.com/a6fd837d0a225d9fb6ec136af13e4776

10 psf key

feel like im getting my rotation down better

[main bridge]

nice job

[plucky stream]

669 ilvl rn

tyty

[main bridge]

ghost ping?

[buoyant herald]

Kinda looks like it is, but tier is still scuffed so there’ll be some tuning left at least

[main bridge]

hopefully

[ashen pecan]

Aight guys the rogue reroll arc continues, purple parsing for ilvl in myth pug raid at 669

any future?

[shy heron]

wait til this thing hits 87 miles an hour

[ashen pecan]

[crude helm]

is there a rogue wa pack thats updated for all 3 specs? i wanna move off luxthos bc of the cpu usage

[hollow river]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[zenith elm]

good morning fellow rogues

[buoyant herald]

How do you do

[static glacier]

I was under the impression luxthos wasn’t that cpu hungry

[hearty seal]

shooo-eeesh
depending on how often this procs, getting it during DM might be insane

that's like 80% mastery innit

[spice surge]

Its got 10 rppm, so on average its gonna proc around every 90s, so its insanely rng

[hearty seal]

aw crud

[spice surge]

But yes the numbers are high

Its also from delves

[hearty seal]

ah, so no 723 item level actually?...

[spice surge]

So the ilvl is gonna be lower than other trinkets

[hearty seal]

it's gonna be like
uhhh
704 max, I guess

Hero 6/6, that is

[spice surge]

710

But ye

[hearty seal]

maybe 710 if they turbo boost again

[royal lantern]

and big mastery for 10seconds randomly is not THAT great overall tbh

like, even if it would proc perfect, it doesnt even cover a full cd window

[spice surge]

If "slaying" is procced by demise it might be good in keys

[hearty seal]

yeah could be very good in keys

[spice surge]

Since thats typically associated with killing blows, which we get almost always with demise

[hearty seal]

but on a boss...1.5 min on avg doesn't align outside of fatebound w/ set and that's not worth

[spice surge]

I mean its not every 90s exactly

[hearty seal]

ye it's gonna be like

70-110s most of the time

so you can just get it like
15 seconds before FB DM

and waste it all

then again
could always just have
signet+ara egg again lmao

but eh, there are a few decent candidates from the looks of it (45k primary stat on 2 min CD? lmao yeah)

gotta wait for sims

[nova kelp]

https://www.concerthotels.com/got-rhythm

[royal lantern]

im not gonna click random links, nice try whisp

[nova kelp]

if you can get a 900 I'll be your whispyr ❤️

[red schooner]

750 was my best, I can't rhythm well

[sharp viper]

sad fatebound noises

[red schooner]

You didn't even need to add sad, with fatebound it's implied

[nova kelp]

I think that's LITERALLY just the sound of a coinflip

[rotund oak]

the only fun i had is pvp on retail

but im pugging them keys so ive accepted self torture

boosting ppl on their 3-4rth alt

doing tank dmg

[brave viper]

what about 850

[nova kelp]

850+ is pretty fuckign good tbh

[brave viper]

878 now

[brave viper]

getting somewhere now

[icy geyser]

where does it drop?

[hearty seal]

the next patch delve rewards, apparently

[shy axle]

anyone got a small lingering darkness icon weakaura that counts down? i sometimes forget the dry shiv

[sharp viper]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[balmy condor]

So what are you gonna be to me then

Like a möbius strip of whispyr

[nova kelp]

dude this is BANG on my top score

we're off to a good start already

rofl

[balmy condor]

That was I think 3rd try

My first two were high 800’s

[nova kelp]

anything over 900 is like "actual musician" status

[balmy condor]

Well I am classically trained so that checks out

[nova kelp]

aye, that makes sense, I used to play drums in a different life

[balmy condor]

I went to uni for music

[nova kelp]

my uncle was a music teacher in uni, he played 1st trumpet in the sydney operah house at one point

[balmy condor]

Oh sick

[lost wharf]

I remember learning in school what a sound body is and then really understanding what it means, when I farted on the toilet and it was way louder. This about sums up my music expertise.

[balmy condor]

That’s something I guess

[marble hemlock]

im pavlovically trained. unless i get a treat, i dont do well.

[icy geyser]

what is a good comp to play around as assa?

vdh shammy dk warr?

[spice surge]

Warrior and shaman provide the biggest buffs

But it also doesnt matter as much as people think

[ocean shell]

The proper term is classical conditioning

[dense cedar]

idk how it would exactly feel but kinda wish we got trickster

[rancid summit]

!plater

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[rotund oak]

exactly what u would expect from a cat dad

[warm vortex]

Assassination

[dense cedar]

Assassination

[sudden mauve]

Assassination

[rotund oak]

retail so boring

💀

[normal mist]

good enough?

[shy heron]

first try ez

[harsh anchor]

I'm incapable and scored a 560

[pliant remnant]

That's impressive

[shell crater]

Hey all so I wanted to ask about next season, does anyone have any tips on optimising my rogue output for raids? I've heard that people will play sub to start and then move to assa or is it too early to tell anything?

[acoustic kite]

Sub burst go brr, that’s why it’s pretty much always the early prog spec

[spice surge]

The reason sub has been the "early prog spec" the latest raids doesnt have anything to do with any of its damage profile

Its just been the case that assa was fairly bad while sub was alright

And then assa gets masively buffed

[shell crater]

fairs

[nocturne quail]

So buff soon

[indigo mulch]

Is there a vendor for AGI weapons on ptr? 😮

[spice surge]

All of your items scale up once youre in something

So besides speical items like trinkets or tier you dont really need anything

[neon lava]

do we have any ptr testing telants that feel good atm? Sorry for question going again! 🙂

[indigo mulch]

Weapons aren't scaling in m+ though

[spice surge]

Literally the exact same as on live

[indigo mulch]

Atleast on my hunter.

[neon lava]

thanks for answering

[kindred oriole]

!sheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm vortex]

What even is this test thing haha

[normal mist]

rhythm

[shy heron]

#assassination message

[kindred oriole]

!sheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spring briar]

is it possible skip frostboots at mugzee mythic with cloak?

[worn geyser]

No

It immune the damage but you still become an icicle

[spring briar]

damn

thanks for the information

[marsh fjord]

When playing induction build with 2 shiv charges. is it a DPS increase to 1 shiv the second KB. and use a shiv 30 seconds before?

Going over some logs in very high keys on a boss fight. and i see someone doing it.

[spice surge]

On ST yes, its what called a dry shiv in the guides

[marsh fjord]

oh let me read that

So when lingering darkness is active + you about to consume Darkest night. between those two you shiv? and then consume the darkest night proc? is that how it works? am i understanding that properly?

[iron carbon]

correct

for giga envenom

[worldly cargo]

would a kind lad be able to check out my logs and see if I'm doing anything too incorrectly? Am a new rogue getting ready for next season. I was in on the first 4 bosses here:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/n7Vzp8JmrZwANfWd

[marsh fjord]

Thanks bro!

[iron carbon]

Cuz DN crit and damages amp

and you do a 9 cp envenim

[marsh fjord]

Yeah

Thanks thanks!

[shy creek]

You HoC at 1:38 and you deathmark at 2:08. You need to sync these together for damage, don't just use HoC off CD

Macro them together

then you sync these together which is the mistake from earlier showing up

Other than that, looks fine to me

[worldly cargo]

ok ty I've heard conflicting advice and have not looked that up enough. Some people have said to use on cd and some have said to hold it

[shy creek]

the usual stuff technically, no tempered potion bad trinket usage, but the rotation itself looks fine

[hallow glade]

This particular cast of kingsbane shown above from vexie is also 8s delayed from the previous cast, meaning that you also do not have it for the deathmark at 4:08 (if the boss lived longer this wouldve been an issue)

[worldly cargo]

lorrgs probably has that info tho

[shy creek]

Always sync it to deathmark

Whats the poitn of 8000 mastery during a no cooldown window

Over deathmark

It doesnt make sense to send off cd

[hallow glade]

although kingsbane doesnt have a special interaction with deathmark itself irrc, youre using both shivs, potions, trinkets with deathmark, so it makes sense to just use them together

also theyre just naturally synced if you dont hold one or the other

keep in mind kingsbane does not do a lot of damage outside of your deathmark window, so holding it for any reason is usually not worth it

also your crit is super high relative to your other stats

but probably not something to stress out over since youre low ilvl anyways

[worldly cargo]

if I remember right I delayed it a bit cause my dots were rolling off at a bad time and I didn't realize it beforehand

so I refreshed dots before use

[shy creek]

On your cauldron kill, this is your darkest night usage.

This is what it should look like

Darkest night is your highest priority, you are doing everything to slam that darkest night on 7 cp

[worldly cargo]

what I forgot during that fight was that darkest night can apply mark to a new target, so when I swapped targets I got a little fucked up and had to vanish reapply

I should have hit same target during intermission until proc and then swap

[shy creek]

Happens

[worldly cargo]

for a fight with cleave lads like rik amps, stix bombshells is it really ever worth to worry about marks on them

or just put up bleeds and vibe

[spice surge]

Mostly just hit boss

[hallow glade]

you just rupture those for energy when they die if you want

[spice surge]

Can put up a single rupture for energy if you want to

[worldly cargo]

okay that's what I did for both of those fights, I put up a couple bleeds but otherwise hit boss

[shy creek]

Yeah you just rupture pretty much, and just slam boss

!rik

[prisma monolith]

Rik Reverb Barrels (and similar spread cleave in raid)

• Not your problem.
• Assassination is the worst target swapping spec in the game, and we have no tools available to deal with the situation of priority spread cleave. Caustic can reach sometimes but similar to fire mage, the boss needs to be on top of the adds, causing caustic to often be out of range.
• If you're truly hellbent on swapping to barrels, hold your nearest darkest night and just slam a darkest night envenom into them and pray. If you're quick enough you can also pool combo points/energy and cast a rupture on a barrel to try and caustic off of them. This still will not do good barrel damage, again, the spec is doomed for it
• Another possible option would be talenting into Crimson Tempest by untalenting Bone Spike and Doomblade. This CAN TECHNICALLY provide a bit of barrel damage, but the spawns need to be immaculate and any difficult spawns will just result in no barrel damage again.
  With all that, the best advice we have for swapping barrels:
• Swap to Subtlety.

[worldly cargo]

felt weird though compared to other classes I'm more familiar with

[hallow glade]

sin is basically unable to swap

especially when the adds die that fast

[worldly cargo]

yea ig if that's super important for a fight then it's just a different spec angle

[hallow glade]

yeah like subtlety for when rik reverb was prog

also youre using echoing void and radiant power i would recommend using void ritual and simming your character to see if authority of the depths is better

it probably is

[shy creek]

Otherwise the logs look solid, just make sure to show up to raid prepared, get your ilvl up, and slam

[hallow glade]

out of curiosity are you at 18% of the raid buff?

[worldly cargo]

good comms I have not simmed this. I saw echoing void as best on wowhead and just full trusted. I went radiant power cause I was still very low lvl at the time and wanted to be more useful in dungeons

[worldly cargo]

yea

[hallow glade]

yeah echoing void will sometimes sim higher last i checked but its definitely worse, you can see the pinned messages in this channel for that

[worldly cargo]

I'm a little better off in ilvl now but still need to get a good amount of crests

[hallow glade]

you might be able to pick up a lot of damage by simming your character you look low on mastery

not sure how much gear you can swap over t hough so just getting ilvl is your best bet

[worldly cargo]

can't get more mastery yet with current gear, a lot of that is locked behind a big crit ring atm that I can eventually swap off

[hallow glade]

its not a huge concern atm just lower than typical

if youre a true rogue maybe you can stealth your way into a bandit rekill with your guild

[worldly cargo]

I probably will next week. I'm moving off of disc priest so they are still wanting me in on some fights until new healers are geared up

and haven't used dinars yet so I can get big quickly with a full clear

I appreciate you for helping

[silent compass]

How does sudden death work on bosses?

[hallow glade]

the same as everything else

but bosses have a lot more health

so it proportionally does less damage

because sudden demise is just a flat amount based on your bleeds

[silent compass]

Ohh got it

Ty

[strange tundra]

https://www.kkinstagram.com/reel/DLuGXVgtoTC/?igsh=YzVxcTJ1aWNmOTBp

[cinder geode]

Are you able to get the flarendo mount yet

Haven’t raided in a couple weeks

[spare kayak]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[rotund jungle]

Shiv hits with AP also derage enemy or does it not?

[spice surge]

It does

[rotund jungle]

ty, asking for gally myth ^^

[native anchor]

Hey i wanna try out rougue . Is it true assassination is the easiest of the three specs?

And if anyone can quickly tell me the main differences in play?

[spice surge]

Assa is about keeping bleeds up and then doing big burst.
Outlaw is about going fast
Sub is about delaying and stacking up things for the biggest burst

In raid assa is definitely the easiest, in keys its a bit more involved

[native anchor]

Yeah im interested in keys.

Also im worried about hand pain which is the most or least spammy?

Ty for responding btw.

[shell crater]

Outlaw is the fastest by far

[spice surge]

The "going fast" comment was referring to spamming buttons yes

[native anchor]

Kk ty

[spice surge]

Both of the others are fairly slow, especially on ST

[balmy condor]

yeh if you're concerned about hand pain, outlaw is just fully off the table

[native anchor]

Good to know

[humble verge]

so i found a cool bug

in timewalking

where i shadowstepped

[main bridge]

you shadowstepped into the shadow realm

[normal mist]

You shadowstepped straight to Kpop Demon Hunters world

[main bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/yena-choi-yena-choiyena-kpop-kgoddesses-gif-8116834479922584243

[stark matrix]

@rotund oak @haughty flicker @runic hinge https://youtu.be/hYL4AM9NDQk?si=pz8GDGmnvkZgLt8Q&t=7m52s

Insane literally best m+ tank also says warrior kick better than dh silence

Bro doesn’t even like warrior

[bronze pike]

kinda is tho

20 second knock up

no dr

vs aoe 2min cd silence

that being said

[stark matrix]

I don’t disagree

[bronze pike]

its kira

and a tierlist video 3 weeks into ptr

lmao

[balmy condor]

maybe I should make a ptr tier list

[stark matrix]

These guys had an issue with me saying that warrior is comparable to DH in terms of mob control and that the aoe kick was functionally the same as the aoe silence, the point wasn’t about the tier list itself just his thoughts on the mob control

[balmy condor]

S rank ragebait content

[hasty viper]

Assassination F tier plz buff, everything else is S tier please nerf

[stark matrix]

Could care less about where people put what specs in an arbitrary tier list that will change

[bronze pike]

idk who had issues with you being c orrect

[haughty flicker]

and we'll still see everyone play vdh next season once again

[bronze pike]

cause warrior knock up very good

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna put assa in S tier and sin in A tier and mut in F tier

[haughty flicker]

do it

[bronze pike]

that being said

its attached to warrior

and warrior

[hasty viper]

Seems fair

[stark matrix]

Because there’s much more to being meta than just what mob control you bring

[bronze pike]

lost a big solid cd that made it more distinct between other tank specs

for no reason

[haughty flicker]

nobody disagreed that it wasnt good, just that vdh kit as a whole has more mob control than warrior

[bronze pike]

while bdk and prot paladin gets to keep

ams and bubble/spellwarding

[hasty viper]

Can we make a tier below F just called ,,Fix" and put Fatebound in there?

[bronze pike]

i mean not really no

[hasty viper]

Nvm, just put the whole class in there

[bronze pike]

20 second knock vs

2min silence,fear,and grip

grip only being good with boomie solar beam pair

there about even

[stark matrix]

Eh spell block, while it sucks to see it go, would have been a lot less needed in this upcoming season with a bunch of the stuff being either reworked or nerfed in keys

[bronze pike]

overal

[haughty flicker]

grip is good significantly more often than just with boomy

[bronze pike]

i disagree

but im not openning this can of worms again

[haughty flicker]

but either way im not invested enough to continue a conversation from like a week ago

[bronze pike]

im just glad taking chains isnt as much of a int then it used to be

[stark matrix]

Wasn’t a week ago

[haughty flicker]

what will be will be

[bronze pike]

funny

[haughty flicker]

prot war season would be hype so im fine with it

[bronze pike]

how warrior and vdh are s rank

when the man strictly played brew in ptr

hmm :)

[stark matrix]

I’d rather see a brew season

[balmy condor]

W ragebait

[bronze pike]

not just him playing brew either btw :)

[stark matrix]

Brew deserves its day on the podium for once

[hasty viper]

[bronze pike]

alot of high key tanks are playing brew now :)

[haughty flicker]

did they fix brew bugs yet though

[bronze pike]

i cant wait how brew will be when people actually learn the bare minimum on how to perform on it

[stark matrix]

Yea it’s completely viable still has a lot of weird quirks that would be nice to be ironed out though

[bronze pike]

the most broken one ya

wher eyou got a herd of angry daves

[haughty flicker]

brew meta would be hype too

[bronze pike]

i hope its brew meta

or any other tank meta

i honestly cant stand another season of vdh meta

im tired of it

im tired of people shilling the dumbest builds possible cause some dude with no life timed a 0181971791+ with it

[azure shoal]

i'm assasssination now

[stark matrix]

I could live with it if it was a fel scarred season

[bronze pike]

[balmy condor]

at least it's not just here

[bronze pike]

its always felscarred season

[balmy condor]

glad to know it's a universal experience

[bronze pike]

imagine playing reaver in a 15

i would actually blow my brains out if i was forced to play that abomination of a hero tree

[bronze pike]

[haughty flicker]

i noticed my no dm build still isnt on the wowhead page

thats a bug right

[stark matrix]

Love when my DH leaps into a pack and dies in the first global

[bronze pike]

@balmy condor

playing without these talents

is the same as playign without splatter

and deathmark

[balmy condor]

you're not playing internal bleeding for the boss damage?

noob

you don't have 3 quintillion io

[bronze pike]

yes

[balmy condor]

and it shows

holy

you're so stupid

[bronze pike]

i will play vdh without a 40 dr wall that lasts 20+ seconds on a 1min cd, that also increased my damage by 30% and thus healing and defensive power because im a leech tank

i have

[runic hinge]

Please don’t ping me again. I already asked you to stop

[bronze pike]

10823397118721978 io

[haughty flicker]

get pinged idiot

[runic hinge]

I love when you ping me

[bronze pike]

and you have 0

haha
\

[stark matrix]

You have the power to fix it if you really are that mad about it

[haughty flicker]

thats a lot of io waow

[bronze pike]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1061586936533372948/1234765306547802135/rlp.gif

[normal mist]

Is it because he's yellow?

[haughty flicker]

mainly

[stark matrix]

Would it be better if I was blue?

[bronze pike]

https://tenor.com/view/space-king-blood-sign-flashgitz-coagulators-gif-6301676651627017871

[royal lantern]

(ignore the 84 failed runs in the last 5 days)

[bronze pike]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1379273688616013984.webp?size=96&animated=true

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-w-gus-fring-gus-gustavo-deleted-gif-25440636

[bronze pike]

wrong cat was used

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/gato-withrock-gif-27341353

[bronze pike]

brew being meta would be the funnest fucking thing

on god

would unironically be the worst pug meta ever

[stark matrix]

Fuck caster meta

[bronze pike]

cause these people dont know how to play brew rn, so larry lfr

is going to absolutely eat dirt and floor pov

[hallow glade]

Go off their last season io if brew is meta

[bronze pike]

every fucking pull

[royal lantern]

????? thats all pug tanks?

[stark matrix]

Too many people oversend their purifies

[runic hinge]

It’s cause I don’t wanna get ping by someone who ragebaits and argues in bad faith and moves the goalposts like 6 times in their argument who goes and finds one YouTuber who confirms their bias a week later and pings everyone they interacted with. Idc about his flair dude is just a weirdo

[bronze pike]

yua but even more than usual

cause brew

ill admit

[royal lantern]

like, dont act as if the FotM brains rn dont leap into the middle of shit and LoS the healer->die and type XDDDDDDDDDDDDD in chat

[bronze pike]

is alot more engaging than vdh

[stark matrix]

Never once changed the goal post nor was it a rage bait

[haughty flicker]

im going to play brew next season

and int keys

it'll be glorious

[stark matrix]

Not sure how any of what I’ve said was “in bad faith”

[bronze pike]

oh i see theres actual issues oging on

so imma head out

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/out-disappear-bye-vanished-gif-4932063

[waxen oyster]

i actually dont get what tank players doing sub 1mil st with gear

are doing

[haughty flicker]

tanking

[stark matrix]

You answered your question already, tank player

Aka the role where no one holds you accountable for your shit performance as long as you don’t die

“Tank damage doesn’t matter”

[royal lantern]

rude but also kinda true

[waxen oyster]

Idk i feel no one holds healers accountable

[royal lantern]

healers hold healers accountable

[waxen oyster]

Like if no one dies i feel

[royal lantern]

tanks in m+ are just GIGANTIC egos all around

[waxen oyster]

nobody holds a healer accountable

for shit

[bronze pike]

nothing

they dont press buttons

thats all

[waxen oyster]

i’ve had healers in rookery keys

let my last boss debuff time out

[stark matrix]

Idk I’ve ran into bigger unholy DK egos this season tbh

[waxen oyster]

after they dispelled themselves first gcd

[bronze pike]

i ran into

a 670 prot warrior tank

that ended up

800k overal

yes i ripped aggro by just breathing

[stark matrix]

But that’s also just my experience, I don’t really get to not tank 😭

[haughty flicker]

cant blame him, prot war notoriously low damage

[bronze pike]

it was also the last key i did this season