assassination

[buoyant herald]

Sectec still good

Black powder requires very high target count to use over evis

[hardy rapids]

I do really like the flavor of caustic though, its kinda nasty and so over the top

[thorn thorn]

Amazing

[sharp viper]

got replaced by caustic blade flurry for sub

[thorn thorn]

Cringe

[buoyant herald]

It is

[thorn thorn]

Caustic Nimble Flurry

[thin portal]

I can see why caustic is hated but you guys are the best rogue aoe

[buoyant herald]

I played sub for first week or so of S2 and ran away very fast

[sharp viper]

only cause outlaw is harcapped

hard

[thin portal]

Well

[subtle tundra]

ok? and thats cause we are tuned high, it has nothing to do with design

[thin portal]

Even if outlaw wasn't capped, they still nerfed bf damage.

[subtle tundra]

nerf our spells -> then we arent the best aoe

this isnt about the number

[thin portal]

I guess it's not about the number but at least you do damage and don't have to deal with killingspree.

[thorn thorn]

Instead you get to deal with shadowstep

[thin portal]

Oh yeah I remember now

[spice surge]

Very high, aka 5

[thin portal]

I need to read all the rules again

[subtle tundra]

buffing it twice in a row does to a spell

if i remember correctly

[spice surge]

Deathstalker uses it at 2, and at 3 its roughly the same prio damage as evis

[buoyant herald]

Oh ok I’m out of date then

[spice surge]

[runic hinge]

Ain’t nobody playing deathstalker sub

[buoyant herald]

It was like 8 or 9 at one point wasn’t it

[spice surge]

Yes

[buoyant herald]

My bad

[spice surge]

It should be 9 since flurry hits 8 targets

[thin portal]

How do u guys like trickster sin

[spice surge]

But nobody cares about sub so tuning is completely whack and will continue to be

[thorn thorn]

Do you mean fatebound sin

[thin portal]

Oh we got fatebound sin

I see

[buoyant herald]

God can you imagine trickster sin

[thin portal]

You guys drop a coin on envenoms lol

[thorn thorn]

Good thing Fatebound is terrible

[buoyant herald]

Envenom spattering plus flurrying plus turning into coup

[thorn thorn]

And has been the entirety of TWW for Sin

[buoyant herald]

Envenom the spec indeed

[thorn thorn]

Otherwise we might have seen what its like to play it as Sin

[thin portal]

Hmmm

[thorn thorn]

For Sin its just deathstalker always

[thin portal]

Figured

[buoyant herald]

Well ackchually 🤓

Fate sims higher in pure ST for me

[thorn thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-edit-nerd-gif-3840681641993194287

[buoyant herald]

But it’s yucky and big rng on the pull

So f that for a single fight this tier

[thorn thorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/442378602512777219/1365923034556530781/image0.gif

Just play deathstalker yeppers

[buoyant herald]

I mean I can link the sims, it’s not a lie, but it’s also not something I’d ever actually do so

[thorn thorn]

Photoshopped

gottem

[buoyant herald]

Come to think of it I can’t link sims

Because I deleted the loadout

And cbf setting it up again for this pointless point lol

[thorn thorn]

The day is dark when we have to play current Fatebound

Needs some spice to it

They put like a few grains of salt in it and nothing else

[buoyant herald]

Needs some MSG

[thorn thorn]

Needs literally anything

Fatebound is part of the design era of hero talents when they were initially intended to just be small passive bonuses for the spec

But the newer ones are minor overhauls to the spec

[strange tundra]

whats different in rota in KB build compared to bleed

[winter wind]

What key level should one consider running the 'high key build' that zero and Co are running over the more default m+ build?

[thin portal]

Okay so

[buoyant herald]

You cast KB and only cast shiv with it, that’s about it

[strange tundra]

+15 and up i think

[strange tundra]

in aoe same shit?

[lyric gate]

where is fatebound sim ICANT

[viral pawn]

Is our pure ST with the recommended m+ build (bleed build) just mediocre? I feel like, while aoe is nuts, ST is pretty meh but it could also be a l2p issue from my side.

[buoyant herald]

Aoe is mostly spatter so you just want to be pumping envenoms. Keep CT up. Keep rupture on 5 targets for scent of blood stacks

[thin portal]

Should I use ilvl outlaw gear or switch to crit mast? What do you guys craft?

[buoyant herald]

Yes single target bad with bleed

[strange tundra]

and big cd's Deathmark > tea > KB > shiv?

[fringe spear]

? Raidbots.com click hamburger menu click sim or ctrl-h find it in history or did you just never run the sim to begin with, or was it ran so long ago that its been deleted from the site

[thin portal]

What are your craft stats?

[buoyant herald]

Bro wtf is with people accusing me of lying about fatebound sim

[lyric gate]

haste vers

show sim

[winter wind]

What is the reason for this? I've been running that build even in low keys to get used to it for when I'm doing higher keys

[lyric gate]

stop yap

[viral pawn]

Thx for response

[fringe spear]

Well no my leading theory is you dont know about history

[strange tundra]

almost the same aoe but double the ST

[winter wind]

But why run the bleed build then

[strange tundra]

braindead rota

ez af

chill gameplay

[lyric gate]

sim

[strange tundra]

i am doing 15s with bleed

[buoyant herald]

It’s just the most bizarre thing for me to have just made up

[strange tundra]

i might change when 16s

[fringe spear]

#assassination message

[buoyant herald]

What’s my angle here

[winter wind]

Not spreading garotte and hardly spreading rupture and just sending envenoms Into splatter seems relatively braindead to me

[strange tundra]

i didnt know u dont spread garotte

why is that

[lyric gate]

kush gonna play fatebound in finals

[strange tundra]

i havent played that build yet or looked into it

[winter wind]

Because there's no improved garotte etc in that build

[strange tundra]

oh gotcha

do u even press it btw

once

in aoe

[lyric gate]

i simmed fate

is trash

filthy liar

[thorn thorn]

We coulda told you that and saved you the effort

Fate is a big fat L for hero talent design

[winter wind]

On main target I'm pretty sure yeah

[thorn thorn]

Does outlaw even play fatebound

[lyric gate]

.

[royal lantern]

wdym, coinflips is NOT a good design??

[royal lantern]

they wish they could, cus that means they dont have to play killingspree

[lyric gate]

caught

[royal lantern]

[thorn thorn]

Lmao

[buoyant herald]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1fTxCB55kwMwbGjLibidkA

here you fucking go

leave me alone

[thorn thorn]

So true

So fatebound is terrible for both specs that have it

[buoyant herald]

oooop dslice

[thorn thorn]

Surely that warrants a rework right

[buoyant herald]

my bad lol

[winter wind]

As it should be

[lyric gate]

Dungeon Slice
6 minutes

?

1 boss target

?

[buoyant herald]

bro im literally so tilted

by your BASELESS accusations

i forgot to change sim type

[lyric gate]

bro trying to troll us

ICANT

[thorn thorn]

If Whispyr finds us talking about Fatebound we are all getting sent straight to hell

[buoyant herald]

try this one

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4Ap1T3qh7WEdcfoEJozGi5

now get off my dick

[glad osprey]

what weak aura do you guys uise

use*

[lyric gate]

bruh

[glad osprey]

i used the whispyr edit last season

is there anything similar to that but updated

[mint valve]

if youre playing the forced induction build with no garrotes (aka zeros build). in giga aoe is it worth to shiv your kb target?

[lyric gate]

look your other talents

y

kekrino

just reroll druid tank

ICANT

[runic hinge]

Whispyrs is updated

[unreal tide]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[buoyant herald]

can't believe im getting trolled on the day of god

[winter wind]

This is a question on if you care about your overall or if you care about timing the key by doing prio damage

[buoyant herald]

moot point anyway ain't no one playing fate whether it sims better or not

[mint valve]

shiv if theres a prio mob, but lets say all mobs are equally trash and equal hp

that would be a no shiv angle?

[lyric gate]

overall ofc

[buoyant herald]

the forced induction build doesn't take arterial so no aoe shiv, you're only shivving on one target, and that doesn't scale up spatter damage

[lyric gate]

cant wait for aug comebavck

[buoyant herald]

so it's just a single target gcd vs probably another FoK to get CPs for another envenom

which is probably more overall yeah

[lyric gate]

you should just wait for rotation helper at this point

[buoyant herald]

bold of you to assume im not already a hekili god

[lyric gate]

just trying to be helpful

tbh if you wanna time keys in pug play good old hybrid

[static glacier]

brother do you know what you're saying

[buoyant herald]

he's just out here throwing trollshit to the wall to see what sticks

unfortunately i took the bait and emboldened him

[lyric gate]

kek

sorry mr fatebound

[tall atlas]

Fateboud?

[buoyant herald]

shhhhh

[tall atlas]

More like poop bound heh

[buoyant herald]

it's a secret the guidewriters don't want you to know

[lyric gate]

AND IM THE TROLL

icant

all i can say is that the bleed buiild is prolly si ck on aoe scenarios but padding on useless funnel adds will not help you time the key when you do 1.1 mill single in a 17 key on a boss

i even drop douibel vanish and master assasin for the single dungeons

and go forced ind and twisted

[inland escarp]

You don’t do 1.1 though lol

[lyric gate]

y i have no clue i tbhz never tried it

but even with hybrid you are way behind good single target speccs

[inland escarp]

Give it a shot, zoldyck is nice

[buoyant herald]

the "hybrid" build is just like. worse on aoe and the same on ST as bleed

[lyric gate]

bro you 400 rio behind

me

go do weeklysd

and play fatebound

[inland escarp]

Wowsers

[buoyant herald]

the new cook big key build does decent boss damage and does good prio and aoe but only really works in the bigger keys

[haughty flicker]

[viral pawn]

In ST with m+ spec, is it better to keep CT or envenom buff up (considering there's no other priority obv.)

[buoyant herald]

yeah idk dudes woken up on wrong side of bed or something

[static glacier]

ct > env

with bleed build

hybrid doesn't press ct in st because it takes amp poison

[fallow canopy]

Assuming bleed build, ct

[static glacier]

both are valid m+ builds

[haughty flicker]

watching people argue over m+ will never not be funny

[inland escarp]

So true

[lyric gate]

who is arguing

[fallow canopy]

M+ andies are, respectfully, unhinged

[inland escarp]

Glued to murlok and archon

[lyric gate]

we can talk about delving

[haughty flicker]

while i dont disagree it also takes two to tango

people get baited so easily

[fallow canopy]

true

[buoyant herald]

true 😦

[tall atlas]

If you’re good and play it right you can do 2m single target on a boss

[lyric gate]

maybe on 3rd boss flood

[waxen oyster]

If you do 1.1m st you are fr

slow

like you do 1.6-1.7 if you’re half aware of your buttons

[lyric gate]

learning fatebound

stop bully

[viral pawn]

One more question: is it correct to just keep up bleeds (CT, Rupture, Garrote) while trying to stay above 150 energy for sanguine blades in ST with m+ bleeds spec? I'm asking because I'm literally just autoattacking for like 5sec to stay >150 energy sometimes.

[waxen oyster]

Yeah you’re playing assassination

that happens sometimes

[viral pawn]

Okay thanks man, coming from other classes, this feels a bit wild tbh 😄

[spice surge]

Outside of shiv stay above 50% yes, but it doesnt matter much

[lyric gate]

you use posoined knife in that window

[buoyant herald]

i think whispyr said that optimisation is like under 1%

[spice surge]

0.3% yes

[viral pawn]

It's valid to just macro tea into shiv yeah and never think about tea again yes?

[grim jay]

basically optimal

to do so

[buoyant herald]

thats the play yeah, there's a macro to ensure you don't double-use tea

if you're a button spammer

[waxen oyster]

poisoned knife is a worthless button

[viral pawn]

I am indeed a button spammer

[buoyant herald]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[viral pawn]

Thank you so much for the help

[waxen oyster]

Idk why I still have it bound

[lyric gate]

icant

[grim jay]

cant use it ? no problem

you lose nothing

[lyric gate]

you trippin

watch rotation helper showcase

[rotund oak]

the F

im gonna pull a godzilla eventually with so many ppl talking about rotation helper

[waxen oyster]

Better off pressing feint

[rotund oak]

full nuclear

[waxen oyster]

than pk

[lyric gate]

healer flamed me yday for my feint usages

he said i grief his attonement value

[waxen oyster]

healer opinion

Rejected

[rotund oak]

this looks more like a bait rather a reality

healers love mitigation

[viral pawn]

Ok apparently I've noticed another thing I'm not sure about: in ST, if I find myself 1cp short for a max cp envenom to reapply deathstalkers mark, what's the best ability to cap out on combo points? And in an aoe scenario?

[lyric gate]

no actually happened

[rotund oak]

tell him his brain is malfunctioning

[buoyant herald]

i think you're meant to FoK there since its much cheaper than muti

energywise

[lyric gate]

let me check

[buoyant herald]

especially if you're taking vicious venoms

[strange tundra]

nvm this one is better 69

[buoyant herald]

aoe you'd always just FoK unless you needed to reapply caustic as well

[lyric gate]

gaming

well no priest healer

with priest healer you dont feint

cause oif attonement

i learned that yesterday

[strange tundra]

what is attonement

[lyric gate]

xd

[strange tundra]

XD

[lyric gate]

the priest healing shit

[waxen oyster]

💀

[strange tundra]

+15 gamer here

what is attonement btw

[lyric gate]

dont ask me let me ask the healer

[waxen oyster]

I’m pretty sure atonement are absorbs

[viral pawn]

Overwriting a non empowered garrote outside the pandemic windows is not an option? (It costs quite a lot of energy I realized :D)

[waxen oyster]

not direct healing

[strange tundra]

i will google it

[lyric gate]

kek

[strange tundra]

so the more dmg u take the more u get healed

thats what it is i guess

[lyric gate]

no

its their base healing

he puts it on you

[waxen oyster]

Yeah but if you care about hps

over living

[lyric gate]

so his damage heals you

[waxen oyster]

[strange tundra]

thats what i got from this

[lyric gate]

y

[strange tundra]

nvm im stupid

[rotund oak]

atonement is the buff shields/heals leave in the targets and heal afterwards via dmging

its a disco priest tech

[lyric gate]

i cannot find

the optioin

[waxen oyster]

Disc has always liked preemptive dr

[lyric gate]

to look for feint

icant

[waxen oyster]

from dps

[strange tundra]

do all disco priests do this

[waxen oyster]

because the spec sucks at spot healing

relative to other healers

[strange tundra]

or is it like some rota they need to do

[rotund oak]

it makes no sense

its literally BS

[lyric gate]

WHERE DO YOU GET

[waxen oyster]

or sometimes they can spot heal but its super mana inefficient

[lyric gate]

THAT FEINT COUNTER FROM

i dont have it

[royal lantern]

eeeehhhhh

kinda less when you can just put 2000000000000 billion hp shield son people

[lyric gate]

😦

[waxen oyster]

I mean historically

[strange tundra]

cooldowns

[royal lantern]

ye

[waxen oyster]

disc is not a good spec at picking people up

from standing in crap

[rotund oak]

yup there isnt enough healing power behind the spec

[royal lantern]

the disc niche historically is supposed to be "really really good at healing you can plan for. bad at emergency catchup healing"

[buoyant herald]

im sure thats fine, fok does do a wee bit of damage on the spot at least which i think makes it better than an unrequired garotte

[royal lantern]

but tww happend

[rotund oak]

its tanky AF though

[royal lantern]

and did tww things

[waxen oyster]

its also just

[lyric gate]

19 min key

[waxen oyster]

fotm healer specs

also bring the worst players

[strange tundra]

gamer

[waxen oyster]

to that spec

[rotund oak]

even now,it cant burst alot of healing

[lyric gate]

was my fault btw

that

that i died

on this boss

7 sec no healing

bro started writing a book to me

[strange tundra]

i got this just by playing normally so idk wtf other rogues are doing

[lyric gate]

why i use feint

glazing

[waxen oyster]

tbh alot of rogues dont use evasion

for magic dr

i noticed

[lyric gate]

kek

what is evasion

i have attonement

[viral pawn]

Thank you a lot!

[solid elbow]

Zoldik build good in ToP and Workshop?

[rotund oak]

rogue bad in top

but ye

[buoyant herald]

is good everywhere

[strange tundra]

ToP is indeed bad

[lyric gate]

i play this

[waxen oyster]

sub feels better in top

[lyric gate]

for work and top

also rookery

[waxen oyster]

no meme

[jaunty sky]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[lyric gate]

oh wait its raid specc

nvm

this

[strange tundra]

rotating within feint + vial, evasion + feint, cloak and repeat on swampface is a must

also algari healing potion

[lyric gate]

kek

you can also dodge

waves

5head

[strange tundra]

i never said u get hit by them

but healers struggle so much there

[rotund oak]

bro gets heals by attonement

just dodge the waves

[waxen oyster]

bru gets so much healing that he died

[balmy condor]

The damage is insane yeh

[waxen oyster]

to rot damage

[strange tundra]

damage on high keys is crazy there

especially when abilities overalp

[balmy condor]

Just dodge the waves

[waxen oyster]

Yeah we’re not dks

[strange tundra]

yeah buddy just dodge

[waxen oyster]

who are just passively tanks

unfort

[rotund oak]

new tech is stacking leech

jk

[waxen oyster]

must be nice having multiple “I did not consent to receiving mechanics” button

[rotund oak]

just dodge

[lyric gate]

oh whispyr woke up

can we see the fatebound sims again

[strange tundra]

tag him

[waxen oyster]

I feel leech is better than avoidance

esp with how nerfed avoidanc is

[rotund oak]

actually yeah idk if its better

but its definitely value

[lyric gate]

need to do damage to get value from leech

so nothing for me

[thorn thorn]

Bro

You are gonna get us sent to hell

[rotund oak]

big

[lyric gate]

holy

bro is a healer

[thorn thorn]

Look at that soothing darkness healing

Massive

[waxen oyster]

Remember when soothing darkness

actually did something

[waxen oyster]

pepperridge farm remembers

[lyric gate]

bro only using 1 heal pot

fucking goblin

greed

[strange tundra]

i didnbt need it

lol

i have like 200 what greed 🤣

[waxen oyster]

I mean i greed my health pots in raid more than other classes

since vial exists

[strange tundra]

2.1m wild

[lyric gate]

huge poisoned knife crit

[strange tundra]

they need to bring back 4 sub rogues and pala tank comps

[lyric gate]

what was your highest crit in raid

envenom

[strange tundra]

i dont play raids

[lyric gate]

oh

[strange tundra]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1370127990033354763/20250508_225747.mp4?ex=682101a0&is=681fb020&hm=c862b7c7e3911f153ad4409725fe867996ff9675826f6aa30c4304d15f1d71e0&

[strange tundra]

[lyric gate]

bro im 3 min online

and healer from friends start yapping at me

about his daylie mythic + journey

[strange tundra]

what is he saying

[humble verge]

[royal lantern]

"push keys"

plays with random

get a grip lmao

[lyric gate]

pog

[strange tundra]

raids so boring to me

[humble verge]

i "pushed" keys with randoms last tier until like 17s

17s u need comms imo

[lyric gate]

last tier 17

[humble verge]

16 is fine

[lyric gate]

is not like 17 this

was way harder bro

[humble verge]

17 this tier should be easier tho idk

[strange tundra]

especially next week

[humble verge]

i know guildies whove done a bunch of 16s atleast no struggle

wdym next week

everyone doing MDI splits?

[lyric gate]

next week is +10 ilvl

[strange tundra]

yea

and uncapped crests

[lyric gate]

is it gonna be 684

or 686?

[humble verge]

84

[lyric gate]

nice

[strange tundra]

yea its +6 ilvl

[lyric gate]

gonna be 682 then

y i mean from my current point its like 10

with crest uncap

[strange tundra]

what about sparks

is it still half each week?

[lyric gate]

i think so you

[humble verge]

pm

[lyric gate]

yes

[strange tundra]

aight

[lyric gate]

you need some shit item to recraft gear

prolly for some points

also +6

[strange tundra]

i think u buy everything for crests

in the enchant npc

next to craft order

so u need like 300 gilded

to max gear

next week

like 20 dungeons

[lyric gate]

420 ish

for me

pulled out the calculator

if you didnt trade up

[strange tundra]

cba calculating it

[lyric gate]

crests

yoiu can trade up like 300

[strange tundra]

its 45 per slot that is 678?

[lyric gate]

its 2 more upgrade

so 30

[strange tundra]

oh

yea i need 400+

[lyric gate]

@balmy condor you doing fatebound calculations ?

[rotund oak]

dont understand wdym by calculations

lke simming fatebound?

new apl?

[lyric gate]

y

[rotund oak]

u know

u can sim fatebound as well

[lyric gate]

icant

[humble verge]

@winged sun is zerocool playing your build in the mdi? i cant tell

[strange tundra]

he has KB so probably yes

[winged sun]

yea he is in rookery

[humble verge]

ja ik hes in

just wondered

hes dying

[strange tundra]

he just died from aoe

swirlie

[humble verge]

bro is straight ass

jk

[winged sun]

i heard he played subterfuge in priory which i find extremely cooked

like

subterfuge is the worst build u could ever play in priory

[humble verge]

why tho

[winged sun]

its so bad there literally dogwater bad

especially bleed build

[humble verge]

hm ok

[winged sun]

my god how bad

[humble verge]

because of the long boss fights?

[winged sun]

like

[buoyant herald]

Almost every pull has at least one prio target in there right

[humble verge]

yeye

[winged sun]

bosses last for 10 years and u have no funnel and during ur master assassin window the footman will cast shield and all ur dmg is gone easily, u have few downtimes here and there and u are guaranteed to lose dmg from that build but the other build doesnt suffer from any of that

and the other build is naturally miles stronger because it has the highest consistent funnel in the game

[humble verge]

hm alr

but if you were to sim the build, it doesnt make sense right

is what ive heard whisp said

or am i wrong

just looking at it on a damage perspective

[winged sun]

uberscot

i just ate 3 hotdogs

i dont want to think ok

[humble verge]

ok but

[winged sun]

dont ask me questions now

[humble verge]

were they boiled

[winged sun]

cuz

[humble verge]

or grilled

[winged sun]

my brain cant work

grilled

bro like

no cap

i feel pregnant

holy shit i ate alot

[humble verge]

3 hotdogs

[winged sun]

man ngl it was good but

[humble verge]

and ur full

literally dog

[winged sun]

DUDE WHAT DO U THINK IM 500KG

OR WHAT

?!?!?

[humble verge]

nah but

[strange tundra]

bro what 3 hotdogs is plenty

[humble verge]

if ure thinking 3 like hotdogs u buy from the convenience store

i feel like they are really small

depends what kind u get ig

[strange tundra]

even if i make them home i can only eat 2

[lyric gate]

what you play in prory

[strange tundra]

with frankfurt sausage

the thin one

[humble verge]

like if u have these slobbers

[lyric gate]

i played subterfuge too

[humble verge]

they are giga small

[strange tundra]

yea this

[humble verge]

if im really hungry

[strange tundra]

i put this and mayo ketchup and cheese

[humble verge]

i can do like a solid 5

[strange tundra]

and i can eat 2

[humble verge]

but ig 3-4 is good

[humble verge]

2 would be more for like the big ones like these 2sec

[strange tundra]

how much do u weigh and what height

[ebon glen]

Joey Chestnut ate 76 in like 10 minutes, 3 is nothing smh

[humble verge]

like these big special ones

[strange tundra]

i would cut that in half and make 2 hotdogs

lol

[humble verge]

[strange tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/gyro-lunch-greek-gyro-gif-13504930

[lyric gate]

icant

[strange tundra]

😋

[lyric gate]

sexual harassment

[strange tundra]

this is all we eat here

[humble verge]

sosig

[strange tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/sausage-sausage-meme-knife-csgo-gif-18197274

[thorn thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-explosion-gif-7138394752046712707

[worthy rose]

im malding rn

farmed BT to get warglaives finally

but the one warglavei i got

was a fkn offhand

what a sack of crap

then i realize i cant even transmog iit in the first place

coz its dh only

and dh get free warglavies as transmog already since its legion artifact

[thorn thorn]

[worthy rose]

10/10 mald

madge

[thorn thorn]

You havent even gotten the funny part yet

[dire nacelle]

Hey guys, should we spread Garrotes as much as possible on very big packs with a lot of small mobs, like for example droplets on the way to second boss(dog) in workshop?

[thorn thorn]

DH have to do a questline before they can even use the tmog

[royal lantern]

no

[worthy rose]

ok thats diabolical

[thorn thorn]

Yep

[dire nacelle]

Should I ignore small mobs at all or like spread a bit?

[royal lantern]

spread in a reasonable manner, not spending ages doing it

[thorn thorn]

When the blades drop you have to do a questline and then you get the appearances

[royal lantern]

if stuff dies fast, why wastw time msnually dotting it up

[thorn thorn]

Did u have a stroke

[rotund oak]

Arcane mage dam is stronk

arcane surge the vulnerability stage in rookery

boss melted away

[thorn thorn]

Arcane burst very goodge

[rotund oak]

lets all sniff some copium now on how good the rogue ST is

all 3 mage specs have good ST

[royal lantern]

? nobody does that

[thorn thorn]

[rotund oak]

but but outlaw and sub

[thorn thorn]

My friend tried to play sin recently and they were constantly bitching about energy problems in ST in M+

[vestal cliff]

With Bleed Build in M+ boss fights its probably more important to have every bleed rolling then envenom buff up right?

[royal lantern]

garrote/rupturen should never drop no matter what you do lol

[rotund oak]

and ct

[buoyant herald]

yes

[royal lantern]

CT has priority over envenom yes, unless you have Darkest Night up

[rotund oak]

yup

[vestal cliff]

Yeah but sometimes i mess up and really have no energy and then it comes to, do i envenom or CT

[vestal cliff]

Ty!

[buoyant herald]

only sometimes? 😛

thats pretty common in longer boss fights with bleed tbh

[thorn thorn]

Siri have moroes post the bit about design

[rotund oak]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[rotund oak]

1st one

read and try to produce

training makes perfect

(no such thing as perfect btw)

[strange tundra]

there is perfect but not always

[vestal cliff]

Yeah , i had a little rogue break really need to work myself into it again

Ty!

[buoyant herald]

it's important to understand that running short on energy in ST is kind of expected and not to get too hung up on it

i think

[rotund oak]

the concept of perfection is as naive as idk,ppl that thing perfection is achievable

play the cards u have the best possible way

is more realistic

[buoyant herald]

"don't let perfection get in the way of progress"

[strange tundra]

isnt that what perfect means idk

[rotund oak]

no far from it

[vestal cliff]

I got a sick lockenstock log on Thursday

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZMDFVcyaR8Kn6PhJ?fight=17&type=damage-done

Finally dead

[strange tundra]

doing the best with what u are given isnt perfect

?

[royal lantern]

thats what a inperfect LOSER would say

[rotund oak]

[strange tundra]

not even 100 parse

git gud

[vestal cliff]

YOO

[keen spruce]

[strange tundra]

[vestal cliff]

I tried my best okay

Next time

[rotund oak]

🙌

lord shmeeps in da hood

[strange tundra]

this is mine

[vestal cliff]

Close

[strange tundra]

i tried raiding first 3 weeks of s2 and gave up

[vestal cliff]

The first bosses are not fun

[strange tundra]

all fights take so long idk

[vestal cliff]

Lockenstock was the first fight i enjoyed

[strange tundra]

i only enjoyed raiding in legion

[vestal cliff]

Just blasting

[strange tundra]

with an actual guild

[vestal cliff]

I started in DF so i dont know legion xD

[strange tundra]

i only played wotlk/legion and tww

and legion only season 1

legion sub rogue was top dps

[thin portal]

Is there a wa to display cheatdeath

So I can watch it

[strange tundra]

if u have some other weakaura that is similar just change the spell id

but there should be one ig

[thin portal]

Sin plays cheat im guessing

[strange tundra]

idk in raids but in m+ u play elusiveness

[thin portal]

Oh rly

Ok

[strange tundra]

yeah read it its op

[buoyant herald]

cheat death kinda covers mistakes, you can go a whole key without it proccing (and you should) in which case it's a worthless pick

elusiveness is always going to provide some value if you use feint aggressively

[spice surge]

Well if you went a run without proccing cheat death then elusiveness would also not be needed

[buoyant herald]

makes your healer's life easier

maybe he heals someone else who does need it instead of you

[spice surge]

Makes them overheal more rather

[thin portal]

Sin run speed is slow so

I'm scared

[hot pasture]

with the bleed build should u pool to stay >50% energy?

in ST

[spice surge]

Outside of shiv yes, but its very minor

[buoyant herald]

how does you taking less damage make your healer overheal more?

or you mean like

they expect you to take more damage so rip bigger heals that aren't necessary

[slate crown]

I mean aoe healing that just goes on people

[spice surge]

Healer cds generally do way more than they need

But also people overrate elusiveness since baseline feint works on most things

And at that point its just dr on evasion

Which is not even remotely worthwhile compared to cheat

[buoyant herald]

ah right ok i see what you're saying

[loud light]

The healer's there to heal you, cheat death is great at saving you from like a missed kick on a bolt that one-shots you

Elusiveness comes into the picture if you have predictable (targeted) damage that you know you're not going to survive without it

[strange tundra]

i think its like 2% dps increase or something

[thin portal]

Well

[strange tundra]

elusiveness is so much better than cheat death like there is no debate

[buoyant herald]

i think general DR even if it wouldn't kill you is still just nice and comfy for everyone

[loud light]

sure, if your goal is comfort and not speed

piling on defensives makes things comfier

[buoyant herald]

true

[loud light]

feint does cost energy

[buoyant herald]

im a comfort gamer to be fair lol

[strange tundra]

in aoe energy doesnt matter

plus feint is no gcd

[spice surge]

No 0.3

[strange tundra]

lol

[loud light]

CT duration is short enough and darkest night comes up often enough (and sin's m+ energy regen is bad enough) that there isn't THAT much time in ST to really pool

it happens but you usually have something better to do

[strange tundra]

how many times will u use feint in ST anyway

more than half the time in m+ is packs usually

[spice surge]

No

[strange tundra]

and u dont have energy issues

so pressing feint is whatever when it comes to energy

[loud light]

what level keys are you doing? Elusiveness is like specifically taken as you go into high keys and start getting targeted boss abilities that are going to one-shot you (and baseline feint doesn't do shit on them)

[strange tundra]

15 atm

i never used cheat death even on low keys idk

[loud light]

just confused by saying elu feint doesn't get used on bosses

[strange tundra]

i never said it doesnt

but like using feint wont break your dps

in a boss

[loud light]

I think you're really underestimating the value of a cheat death effect, that's all

[strange tundra]

probably idk

[spice surge]

Some dungeons like cinderbrew where feint doesnt work its obviously insane

[strange tundra]

what do u mean it doesnt work

[spice surge]

The 40% from feint doesnt work on a lot of the damage you take

[slate crown]

the best for my bees

[thin portal]

Can I play sin in my 40% verse outlaw gear?

[strange tundra]

what about the 20% dmg reduction

[spice surge]

Feint with elusiveness is either 40% or 20%, its never 60%

[red schooner]

ye probably

it'll be fine

[strange tundra]

isnt it better to have flat 20% dmg reduction than one cheat death every 6 mins or whatever the cd is

[spice surge]

Whereas in dfc elusiveness does very little

[thin portal]

What haste is sin want?

[red schooner]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Signet of the Priory will require you have Mastery as your highest RATING (the actual number, not the %). Having Crit and Mastery close to one another will cause procs from Flask or Seaforium Pacemaker to cause your Signet to give you Crit. This is generally worse and will cause Signet to sim poorly.
• Compared to each other, Deathstalker wants more Mastery/Haste than Fatebound, and Fatebound wants more Crit than Deathstalker
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[strange tundra]

just sim

[thin portal]

Hmm

[strange tundra]

sim wants me to get haste vers atm

[spice surge]

Depends, if you get oneshot abyway through the 20% then elusiveness does nothing

[strange tundra]

there are oneshots that u cant prevent?

[spice surge]

Or if you stand in something you didnt intend to

[strange tundra]

i mean thats skill issue

[spice surge]

Yes

But that safety net is worth a lot

Because instead of you dying

You dont

[strange tundra]

yeah sorry but i will never use cheat death just to avoid some skill issue thing

rather die coz of skill issue

[spice surge]

[loud light]

I'm sure that will be a comfort to your group

[strange tundra]

[balmy condor]

What’s that supposed to mean

[red schooner]

I just run cheat death for the safety blanket, I have cheat death up, I chill

[strange tundra]

personally i rather die from skill issue and git gud

than have a safety blanket

and use elusiveness to its full effect

whenever u can

[buoyant herald]

hes been trolling all morning, ignore

[spice surge]

Youre oveatimating elusiveness

Its not +20% if feint already works

Then its literally useless

Like second boss dfc

Elusiveness does nothing there, since feint works by default

[strange tundra]

it says 20% non area of effect dmg, doesn't that mean any dmg that's not aoe?

[spice surge]

Correct

[balmy condor]

I see

[thorn thorn]

Looking at zeross' log of a +19 DFC he used Feint 56 times (out of the roughly 110 possible that could be used if the ability was used on CD), meaning that 1960 energy in total was spent on Feint out of the 37k energy that was generated in the key. A grand total of 5% of total energy gained in the key was spent on Feint (and in this log he was taking Elusiveness). Out of defensive usage 34% of his total Defensive power was on Feint for the key. The lowest log I found for cheat (easily anyway) was a +16, and cheat had a not insignificant 23% of mitigation in taht key (In comparison to the 28% Feint did)

[spice surge]

But you cant tell whats aoe or not without looking into logs

[thorn thorn]

Tldr

Both goodge depending on key

I just chose dfc for that randomly and cba to check all dungeons

[strange tundra]

i think aoe is anything thats not targeted?

[spice surge]

Ye thats where youre wrong

[loud light]

what is and isn't aoe is more of an art than a science

[thorn thorn]

Whats worth noting though is that cheat obviously takes no energy

[strange tundra]

probably

[thorn thorn]

Sweet Child.

If this were true everything would be easy

[buoyant herald]

more of a crystal ball than anything

[royal lantern]

AOE is what blizz says is aoe

[thorn thorn]

There are things that are clearly aoe visually

[strange tundra]

so like dfc 2nd boss those images are aoe or what

[thorn thorn]

But they dont have the aoe flag

Which means that avoidance and any similar effects are functionally useless

zero value

[strange tundra]

they make this game confusing for no reason

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-toby-the-cat-nod-yes-yes-yes-hooman-gif-17105827

[humble verge]

bro is feintwatching zeross

[spice surge]

You know floodgate last boss, he applies a targeted dot

Thats aoe

[strange tundra]

lmfao

[buoyant herald]

god help us all

[empty quartz]

just always take elusiveness and it doesn't matter what's aoe

[spice surge]

You know the pulsing aoe knockback on the Bee boss in meadery

[red schooner]

why are blizzard like this

[spice surge]

Thats not aoe

[strange tundra]

i mean thats what i do and average 70 feint each dung

[red schooner]

Legit just give us something in the dungeon journal that goes 'feintable', 'not feintable' if common sense ain't gonna apply

Shits dumb

[slate crown]

Flap those wings, darlin

[buoyant herald]

if you cared enough

you could probs make a WA for enemy casts lol

[thorn thorn]

The aoe that the kelp mobs do before swampface isnt aoe either

[strange tundra]

indie devs

[slate crown]

It would have to be a maintained hardcoded list

[red schooner]

the fuck

[slate crown]

not a simple WA

nightmare to maintain that

[buoyant herald]

yeah it would be a nightmare i presume

[thorn thorn]

You would be surprised how many things season by season arent actually AOE

Remember the 3rd boss of HOI in DF?

Not AOE

[strange tundra]

idk why they have to complicate so much what is aoe and what isnt

[thorn thorn]

Although that one is a bit more obvious

[buoyant herald]

problem: avoidance is too good a tertiary
solution: reduce number of effects that are coded as aoe

[thorn thorn]

Correct

[verbal stirrup]

Its not intentional

[strange tundra]

coding issue?

[thorn thorn]

If they dont have the AOE flag then avoidance effects dont work

Sometimes they literally just forget

[thin portal]

If u take elusive and press feint amd evasion that's 40% reduc

[thorn thorn]

I have free time

[lean plover]

easier solution is just to remove avoidance :/

[thorn thorn]

Congrats Feint no longer works

[buoyant herald]

the monkey paw curls

[worn geyser]

tertiaries should be removed tbh

dumb rng to determine if u take less damage in keys or not

[lean plover]

speed and leech arent a big issue imo

[thorn thorn]

Avoidance is at best going to reduce your overall damage taken by a few %

Vers contributes a lot more

You can check mitigation value in logs but tertiaries are typically on the lowest end of it by a decent amount

[lean plover]

vers is a lot more expensive as a stat tho, where as avoidance doesnt eat your stat budget

[worn geyser]

yeah its not like crazy valuable but it does nothing for that kinda rng to be in the game

[thorn thorn]

Mostly because avoidance doesnt work on everything

[lean plover]

issue is that getting avoidance is rng

[thin portal]

Wat chants do u guys like as sin

[lean plover]

i like gregorian chant while playing assa

[buoyant herald]

usual ones

[lean plover]

gutural doesnt fit

[blazing pumice]

avoidance basically doesn't exist anymore

idk what you're complaining about

[worn geyser]

ah so it wouldnt be a problem to remove it then

[thin portal]

Since run speed blows already maybe stack avoidance

[blazing pumice]

no, who cares

[thorn thorn]

Its fine

[blazing pumice]

was different in SL where i was rolling 20% avoidance in s1

[thorn thorn]

Its not going to make or break you

[red schooner]

Check the wowhead guide bud, it shows a list

[thorn thorn]

Nowadays anyway

They nerfed tertiaries a decent bit in DF

[lean plover]

Avoidance is good in the highest of the highest keys, for the vast majority of the playerbase its whatever

[blazing pumice]

except you can't get sufficient amounts of it

[thorn thorn]

World first keys, a very small number of the player base

[thin portal]

Anyone try stacking leech tho or broken like with outlaw

[buoyant herald]

leech is crazy low value

[thin portal]

Ye

[lean plover]

why would u stack leech

[thorn thorn]

Tertiaries in general are extremely low value nowadays

[buoyant herald]

it used to be ok for healers, now its a nice to have at best

[royal lantern]

leech is for healers to pad healing done

[lean plover]

it has its niches

[thin portal]

Ok I'll just stay speed

[lean plover]

speed is omega for sp

[buoyant herald]

pres likes it most i think

[thorn thorn]

Leech very good for pres

Spec overheals a ton cuz mastery is dumb af

[lean plover]

i have played like 3 times with pres so idk

[royal lantern]

wait, whats the press mastery, i legit dont rn

[thorn thorn]

If pres health % is higher than their target they get bonus healing

[buoyant herald]

it makes you heal for way more whenh you're higher hp% than target

[thorn thorn]

Goes up to very high numbers

Can get 60-70% very easy

[buoyant herald]

so leech kinda helps the mastery to take effect

[royal lantern]

i mean, its kinda interesting tbh

[lean plover]

fun mastery

[buoyant herald]

way better than the shaman mastery grumble grumble

its a cool mastery i think

[royal lantern]

healer masterys are in the end all just "Heal more"

[lean plover]

seems weird for keys tho

[royal lantern]

(tbh, all masterys are just "do your thing more")

[thorn thorn]

Pres mastery is basically just heal more

You dont play around it ever

And nothing it does impacts your decision making

[lean plover]

heal more when specific condition is met

[royal lantern]

i mean, so is holy priest mastery aswell

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

cus thats just "when you heal somebody, put a HoT on somebody based on your mastery %"

[thorn thorn]

Most people cant play the spec in keys for some reason

[buoyant herald]

Except shaman mastery which is “when you do your thing more, you heal for less”

[royal lantern]

and all other healers masterys are just "X heals more"

[lean plover]

wdym with cant

[lavish geyser]

is forced induction with no double shiv, recommended over Without a trace for m+? just heard someone saying doubler vanish is now trash

[lean plover]

like skill issue

or spec is dogshit issue

[thorn thorn]

Skill issue personally

[lean plover]

idk i have seen 1 this entire season in keys

[thorn thorn]

People say 10s are impossible with it but I did my first 10 at 630 so idk

[buoyant herald]

Misinformation

[lean plover]

i mean people pushing 10s atm are just bad

[buoyant herald]

That build is good for very high keys, without a trace is great for bleed build, but in super low keys you can take FI over 2nd vanish

[royal lantern]

people say they die in 2 seconds as tanks in m+, yet my drood tanked +10 keys at 645 with no bigger problems

[thorn thorn]

correct

[lavish geyser]

ill just play the double shiv build. might as well get used to it

[winged quail]

Sims be damned I'm taking 2nd vanish to counter terrorist tanks with the 4% chainpulls

[lavish geyser]

that is why we got meld

also

[empty quartz]

i levelled a night elf as soon as i saw shadow dance gone ngl

[winged quail]

nuh uh smorc or nothing

[lavish geyser]

-.-

[royal lantern]

bruh

why would you do that

[worn geyser]

as a forever blood elf, i cant wait for meld to get the blood elf racial treatment its so overdue

[lean plover]

double vanish is better in 14s/15s tho

[royal lantern]

how "i need stealth or i do no dmg" reddit brained are you

[lean plover]

subterfuge good

u dont need boss dmg anyway on a 14

[empty quartz]

you literally do more damage if you can stealth more, chain pull group damage be damned

stealth more while chain pulling, insane concept

[lean plover]

chainpull is good, tank terrorism is bad

[balmy condor]

You ever consider that less downtime also makes you do “literally more damage”

[royal lantern]

"i want to do slightly more dmg even if everyone else does less"

is a take

a really really bold take

[worn geyser]

im so down with chain pulling over 10% health , pulling a 4% health small mob into the next pack is not fun even if its slightly better for group makes it more annoying for me

[royal lantern]

and ye, what whisp said, downtime is literally bad lol

[royal lantern]

thats no chainpull, thats a dumb tank

and is bad for everyone

[empty quartz]

i'm not making an arguement against good chain pulling, i'm saying smeld is giga value for chain pulling

[royal lantern]

like, NOBODY likes pulls like that

[lean plover]

thats tank terrorism

thats bad for the entire group

[gusty mirage]

@spice spire they're talking shit about your chain pull style

[worn geyser]

thats like 90% of pug tanks below high level keys

[strange tundra]

do u really need less downtime than 5%

[royal lantern]

casters and melees have to stand behind and kill stranglers instead of attacking new stuff

like

sucks for everyone

[balmy condor]

Sure, the 1/2 chance that it maybe works sometimes

[humble verge]

100.7% uptime

hes gaming

[gusty mirage]

literally built diffy

[strange tundra]

he played before the key started

[thorn thorn]

True that bdk is a real gamer

[humble verge]

literally plays in the future

[empty quartz]

works most of the time unless you're in the middle of a pack tbh

[spice spire]

I pull for the healer not the dps

[strange tundra]

[buoyant herald]

proper chaining is just killing caster/ranged/prio mobs and dragging basic bitch melee mobs into next pack

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

https://imgur.com/1nUZrGo

[spice spire]

That healer wasn’t chilling on 3 Pally pulls

[buoyant herald]

but usually it ends up meaning "get mobs to 30-5% and move on" and is very annoying

[royal lantern]

ill do that with random rogues rn

fuck them, make them learn how to play their class instead of crutching on IC

[spice spire]

BASED

[royal lantern]

oh no, FoK->rupture a couple times

THE HORROR I DO NO DMG CUS I DONT PRESS CT EARLY ON OMG

[thorn thorn]

I do terrible chain pulling with rogues in my party intentionally because im a bastard

[royal lantern]

[worn geyser]

its just annoying obv i can mouse over apply its not hard

[gusty mirage]

you purposefully pull when a mob is at 5% health?

how does that allow someone to learn how to "play their class"

[humble verge]

maybe i should just go nelf

[gusty mirage]

smart ass

[royal lantern]

moonfire proc happend, stabbzlord can suck my balls

[lean plover]

make ic a 45 sec cooldown...oh wait a second

[gusty mirage]

just admit you and quake are dogshit tanks

[winged quail]

terrorist, ban him

[gusty mirage]

how about that

fuckin bozo

just fucking pull earlier

[royal lantern]

bro its a shity alt i play out of boredom in 10 keys, not doing anything serious with him

[balmy condor]

I love this chart

cause it shows just how pointless some of the details stuff is

while presenting info as gospel