assassination

[stuck knoll]

You just play normally it’s not worth

[grim jay]

Well if it was intentionally added that way it for sure isnt a bug by definition

I dont remember tho

[jagged wasp]

hi guys dawnthread isnt the best embellish anymore for M+

[hexed pumice]

oh, i'm reading the guide from fellow whispyr, and it seems that bleed build has best single target in m+ is that correct?

[stuck knoll]

Kinda depends on the rest of your guild if you’re struggling on barrel damage richard will farm you on assa but if your barrel damage is good you can just poison that bish

[hexed pumice]

i was wondering what can i swap in talents to get a bit better single target, for example for theater of pain

also with friends we're running strong AoE comp (boomkin, unholy, assa) so we struggled by a minute to time a +13 theater of pain

so I wondered if I can opt a bit more single target in that situation

[grim hornet]

normally meaning finish when actual CPS, ignoring supercharge, are 5 or 7 with DN?

[stuck knoll]

Ye

[grim jay]

No

You could basically play with raid talents and spatter

But you leave so much on the table

[blazing pumice]

if you're depleting a 13 top you need to fix your route or just do more damage

13 keys are not that dps demanding in current gear

[coral walrus]

I saw casual running to force induction and Twist the knife

[sharp trellis]

any rota explanation on bleed build ?

[spice surge]

Keep crimson tempest up

[grim jay]

[coral walrus]

look at Casualaddict build, i think his build is more stable

[hexed pumice]

yea ofc we aren't any top players, but that was just an idea as we got 3 strong AoE and lacked mostly on the boss fights

[blazing pumice]

more aoe will save you more time than more st

even in top

[spice surge]

Idk not really. You could swap to stuff like forced induction or twist the knife but it makes your aoe noticeably worse for a few points of ST

[grim jay]

Its really not

[coral walrus]

After casual, chainbleed went for same build and they are #1 and #2 world 🙂

[blazing pumice]

saving 10s on a boss won't time keys

[spice surge]

Id just recommend to play bleed

[grim jay]

Doesnt matter

[coral walrus]

So i d rather take that in consideration over you ^^

[spice spire]

It’s not even 10s

[spice surge]

People still on the kingsbane hype train

[coral walrus]

but people can do whatever

[grim jay]

Its not me, its the guy that actually does the sin stuff

[grim jay]

Ye, quite many

[subtle kiln]

Only King you use in M+ is kingslayer mog

[spice spire]

Love my wet noodle cd

[dapper cradle]

Kingsbane + restealths = infinity damage for sin

[grim jay]

Based

[grim jay]

I do really like KB actually, just not what it is rn

Fr

[spice spire]

I actually hate kb on a design level

[subtle kiln]

like most things rogue, we like the name or the concept, not the execution.

[spice spire]

Lmao

[spice surge]

Ye fuck KB

I prefer red

[versed gulch]

Show me a more sad CD than the between Deathmark Kingsbane. Go ahead. I'll wait.

[hardy rapids]

Kingsbane is cool but in practice it feels SO lame

[spice surge]

No more green

[hardy rapids]

I do like poison builds but it’s refreshing to have a bleed build be the meta for once

[spice spire]

It’s either capped and useless or uncapped (or capped higher) and all the spec revolves around

[subtle kiln]

Shuriken Tornado

[grim jay]

Stop or I'll hit you on your mouth
(with my lips)
(gently)

[spice spire]

Hot

[grim jay]

I wanted kb back really bad

[hardy rapids]

Can we kiss and make up

[grim jay]

Now its only really bad, because its not back as its been around for some time again

[versed gulch]

That is an ability with a CD. Though I'd argue a more fair comparison would be Flagellation.

[hexed pumice]

hmm, I see opinions are divided, but I might give the bleed build a shot then ;p

[dapper cradle]

Flag is yuge tho

[spice spire]

Kb just reminds me of concepts I loved from mists.
Rose tinted glasses make you see some wild things and they can’t be the same design they previously were because the spec itself has changed

[stuck knoll]

Literally any time I press Recklessness on its own

[grim jay]

They arent really

Bleed build is just better

After the recent buffs

[grim jay]

Which mists concept tho?

[spice spire]

Blindside/dispatch

[subtle kiln]

[spice spire]

Having a dedicated execute felt great at the time

[grim jay]

I forgot about that

Holy

[versed gulch]

I'm going to take your word for it. I'm only 80 percent sure what class that one belongs to. Warrior isn't a class I leveled ever.

[grim jay]

What a time

[coral walrus]

it s funny how you keep saying bleed build is just better and noone plays bleed build in top10 rogue assas

[grim jay]

[dapper cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/what-the-fuck-man-stressed-problematic-gif-15976565

[hardy rapids]

Yeah all top 10 rogues run kings bane hybrid

[stuck knoll]

Ye it’s warrior

[hardy rapids]

Either cleave or hybrid

[grim jay]

M+ brainlets arent known for being reliable on any general builds. I believe Whispyr over any of those and the numbers speak for bleed aswell. No need to feel so strongly

[versed gulch]

Tbh, I'd be afraid if they do buff Kingsbane they'll nerf Spatter to go with it.

[spice spire]

It’s funny how you keep referencing the top ten rogues like they all don’t have dedicated premade with damage necessary on x area that needs to be made somewhere

[subtle kiln]

@stuck knoll

[hardy rapids]

But that’s at 18s were you can can actually use KB fully

[stuck knoll]

Love her

[hardy rapids]

[coral walrus]

Now they have dedicated premade...

[dapper cradle]

I love border collies man

[hidden bay]

Top ten rogues have no idea

[dapper cradle]

[robust light]

When do we dry shiv? Is it after first set of cds? With darkest night and the nature dmg from deathmark. So then going into the 2nd KB we just have 1 shiv for it. Then next cds 2 shivs back up?

[stuck knoll]

Or the fact people will sometimes just play comfort over what is optimal because it takes a while to grt used to

[hidden bay]

The real top Gs are in here and talk about bleed build

[hardy rapids]

They’re the cutest for real

The most dog dog of all time

[stuck knoll]

No no the person has no1 next to their name it must mean they’re all knowing

[coral walrus]

you think #1 and #2 rogue in the world can't play optimal? The copium on this sub is insane

[stuck knoll]

Literally yes

[grim jay]

The rwf people dont even play optimal

Stop coping yourself

[subtle kiln]

oooh epeen time

[hardy rapids]

The play optimally for their premade group lol

[hidden bay]

How dare you

[stuck knoll]

This is the most textbook logical fallacy

[hidden bay]

[spice surge]

how do you determine whats optimal

[coral walrus]

what group brother? casual is pugging for 2 weeks :)))

whatever i opened pandora box, i guess everyone plays whatever he likes

[stuck knoll]

“Pugging”

[grim jay]

I'm glad Whispyr is sleeping

[hardy rapids]

No way you think the top 50 rogues are pugging anything LOL

[grim jay]

So he doesnt need to suffer

[versed gulch]

Can I be real for a moment here? I always read the Bleed build/hybrid build caveat High keys and my pedestrian ass was like, oh, so 10s?

Now I'm on a full on bleed build convert.

[stuck knoll]

He is playing with different people (from the same pool of 20 people) every key!!

[subtle kiln]

By doing the opposite of whispyr’s video rants.

[stuck knoll]

This is good I missed this

[subtle kiln]

#1 rogue delver

[hardy rapids]

I can’t tell if it’s rage bait or not

[grim jay]

Sadly dont think so

[blazing pumice]

lol thinking that being a good player = playing optimally

[hardy rapids]

[versed gulch]

Now I have the occasional argument when someone in my guild 10 run is agonizing over a talent swap the number one balance druid in the world does and I just say bro that ain't you. It won't fix what you think it does at our key level

[grim jay]

[hardy rapids]

[stuck knoll]

Another banger argument is copying someone who is doing something when you don’t understand what it is being done for is also kinda pointless

[royal lantern]

whatever i do is optimal

[ancient rain]

im serious for weekly 10 no leaver bleed or hybrid?

[subtle kiln]

I need quakes 16million gem sim .png

[hidden bay]

You play what you want. Other people in the group have no idea what rogues does anyway

[subtle kiln]

Rogues don’t know either

[worldly sail]

nothing matters

[subtle kiln]

[grim jay]

Wait you mean to say the raid cleave build wasnt optimal in weekly 10s back then?

[hexed pumice]

i feel like i caused a shitstorm by asking a few questions there rofl

[royal lantern]

nothing matters, we are all just dust particles in the history of the universe and will be forgoten

[grim jay]

No, it wasnt you dw

[versed gulch]

I don't think so. This is a pretty refreshing convo tbh.

[stuck knoll]

I mean if you think about it in a true weekly no leaver full single target and pulling 1 mob at a time is truly optimal

Because we are optimally getting through thr dungeon

[grim jay]

Now you got me hooked

[subtle kiln]

This is like a summer rain. Not even a storm.

[indigo sphinx]

So you're saying Casual's build is bis

[hexed pumice]

last question then x) what are the differences in rotation with bleed build compared to hybrid? ofc the kingsbane is gone, something else?

[red schooner]

If we're bleed build then why no internal bleeding. More bleed, good

It's in the build name

[stuck knoll]

Wait for patch notes that’s a shit storm

[subtle kiln]

Is casual playing UHDK?

[red schooner]

Makes sense

[versed gulch]

Hop over to the Havoc Discord and make some casual comment and then you'll see a shit storm. At least, back in the last couple patches of DF it was that way

[stuck knoll]

checkmate

[subtle tundra]

wouldn't see why not

[stuck knoll]

Maintain CT on ST

[subtle kiln]

well someone said BiS build. I just assumed.

[stuck knoll]

cough @indigo sphinx cough

[spice surge]

For a more reasonable take. The bleed thing being good is a very recent thing, until now dropping kb was kind of unthinkable in any reasonable build so some of the stuff in simc was not working properly with it until quite literally like a week ago. But despite the sim saying dropping kingsbane is fine a lot of people still feel like its really bad as its been the central point of the spec for a few seasons now. The top runners feel like they want more singletarget, so dropping something that feels like a ST cooldown is not something they would do unless the sim explicitly tells them its good, which it didnt up until very recently. Since theyre probably not reading this chat all the time it would also take some time for them to actually see it, try it and come to a conclusion

[subtle tundra]

playing assa with current st is just not ok

[vast shuttle]

when do u get catalyst essence iknow u get 1 at 2k rating but is it anymore u can get beside resets

[stuck knoll]

No

[versed gulch]

Over here if you get out of line the most violent threat you might get is a kiss on the mouth and maybe some hand holding

[stuck knoll]

Just every 2 weeks and at 2k

[subtle kiln]

Are you retired yet? Or still prog?

[indigo sphinx]

Double shiv in your CDs, but then just send shiv in AoE with CT up. Try not to fall asleep, laugh at CT kills everything.

[subtle tundra]

have you played at that level to understand whats happening?

[red schooner]

Here you get told off by whispyr but then you look at the cat thread and life is okay

[spice surge]

You dont need envenom up for deathmark, keep CT up in ST

[red schooner]

Sometimes you need a Stuart post to fix things

[grim jay]

But.. Top 50...

[subtle tundra]

prog has been over for some days babe

[hexed pumice]

oh so do we try to get 2 shivs in deathmark window, or we do not line up shivs with deathmark at all?

[spice surge]

Yes 2 shivs in deathmark

[indigo sphinx]

Yeee, you want 2 shivs in DM but because you take Arterial Precision in Bleed build you can use that to buff big CT bomba when you are outside of DM

[subtle kiln]

I was running at a doggo show the past weeke. So I asked.

GZ

[hexed pumice]

hmm sounds interesting

seems more easy to play

[coral walrus]

what i meant is that it's been over 1 week since whyspir showed the bleed build and showed that is simmming better overall, but it s not been picked up, especially in highest keys. (reason at least what casual said when i asked: "it doesn't feel stable"). What i mean is, no matter the sim, if the top rogues cannot play this "optimally" to mimic the sims, like hell you top 154385 will.
L.E. Your explanation makes sense.

[hexed pumice]

without needing the 3213190s uptime to apply all cds and coordinate them at 8s kingsbane, which can get fucked for example in rookery cuz u cant attack the mobs sometimes xD

[versed gulch]

It is easier to play. Bleed build for life.

[hexed pumice]

do we try to keep CT on single/aoe at 5 CP or 7?

[coral walrus]

Now, this is only my opinion, people getting butthurt cause they wanna s#ck whyspir's donger so bad, maybe they get noticed, it's another story.

[red schooner]

5

[spice surge]

In no way was there an implication that them or anybody cant play as well as the sim, the bleed build is simpler to play

Sims arent like TAS thats hyper optimized and youll never reach that dps

[blazing pumice]

it feels more stable is all the evidence i need

[coral walrus]

Someone said they can't play optimally before you, i just re-iterated what was said before.

[grim jay]

Ironic, considering you are the one that sounds deeply butthurt as per that statement.

[coral walrus]

I never said the bleed build isn't simming the best, i just said in real life, is not played as much.

[grim jay]

I do wonder what about it does tho

[blazing pumice]

i hope my doctor does treatment based on his feels

[spice surge]

Its not simming the best even, its simming the same pretty much

[hexed pumice]

btw what are the best settings in raidbots to sim with? cuz i heard that some talents or stuff arent even taken in consideration during the sims or something like that

[spice surge]

But sims cant accurately model sudden demise pops, and since bleeds sudden demises are atleast 30% stronger thats another 1-3%

[subtle tundra]

do people not realise a new build for assa doesn't mean new rotation,just a different damage distribution

[hexed pumice]

lol, wrote it at the same time xD

[spice surge]

Huh

[golden loom]

Also appealing to what top players do is usually a fallacy
As an example look at Korean League players, despite having horrible itemization and slow meta reads, they kept on winning, because what matters at the end of the day is how good you are at playing

[subtle tundra]

this is more about human behavior than whats best

[hexed pumice]

i asked about simming and that i heard it doesnt sim some talents properly, and u wrote that it doesnt at the same time x)

[spice surge]

What

[royal lantern]

what

[grim jay]

Oh no tryan

Dont get angry

[spice surge]

Dslice for aoe, patchwerk for ST

[royal lantern]

raid 5min patchwork

m+ dungeon slice

[subtle tundra]

the whole popularity of a build is dictated by what a person does on stream

look at poe lol

[lethal heart]

the endless cycle if some guy that is r1 rio and palys said class and changes 1 talent

even tho it sims -0.5% less

people would lose their shit

[grim jay]

You are way more chill since prog is over

We want the baddie back

[lethal heart]

[stuck knoll]

When I was new to the game I used to sim “low movement” despite not knowing what it was and then was super proud I hit my sim dps on garothi worldbreaker

[neon lodge]

What's the best build for m+? The wowhead one or the fuu sheet one?

[subtle tundra]

the job became a hobby or something

i should paint today

[royal lantern]

bro wowhead says this trinket is the best but that guy is using the other trinket, so is it actually bad????? (its week3 of a Patch and people just use w/e they dropped in the highest ilvl)

[spice surge]

[subtle tundra]

did you sim hectic add cleave

[stuck knoll]

Nah I simmed one of the ones where the sim stops dps for like 8 seconds every 45 seconds

And then played a patchwork fight

[subtle tundra]

so mugzee

[spice surge]

Making mama proud hitting that simdps

[stuck knoll]

I was a tank man at the time

Trying dps for the first time

[subtle kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/noice-brooklyn-ninenine-b99-smile-gif-11928987

[spice surge]

It wouldve been even better if you were simming the tank dps

With low movement

[royal lantern]

filthy!

[stuck knoll]

I don’t even remember if I was doing that

But that sounds like something I’d have done

[spice surge]

I realize its one of the fastest ways to get the discs for the weeklies

[coral walrus]

isn't m+ simming patchwek multiple targets?

[spice surge]

Just queue follower floodgate, stealth to MOMMA, oneshot her and port out

Took me roughly 45s per 15 discs

Pretty quick

[golden loom]

I just did my 3 tier 11 delves for 21 gilded and got the disks

[stuck knoll]

Looking at my old logs from when I first started playing

[indigo sphinx]

I remmeber simming hectic add cleave and @stuck knoll taught me how to use sims so

He defnitely did

[stuck knoll]

Thoughts on this elite healing comp

[spice surge]

[indigo sphinx]

I swear you had 5 on immonar and that was why you never killed it?

[stuck knoll]

Mythic eonar

[stuck knoll]

We had 3 and they couldn’t heal the bridge

[indigo sphinx]

Seeing Ruben at the bottom as well is so sad

[stuck knoll]

It’s damage

[indigo sphinx]

I thought he was so cool because he had the mythic tier set tmog

AH okay haha

[sonic schooner]

Guys it s time for my dumby question of the season : Currently learning the bleed build cause i wanna test the potential : In aoe do you use blindside procs or it s just keep FoK unless ya gotta reapply caustic?

[golden loom]

just use the blindside when reapplying caustic

[sonic schooner]

i see, or maybe also if i m low energy but shouldnt happen in aoe so that one times every 100 000 000 pulls

tyty

[frigid thunder]

M+ build question for someone getting into guile lvl keys, I see mainly 3 talent variations with either going to forced induction & having twist the knife (hybrid only?) or subterfuge + lethality 1/2 or 2 vanish & master assassin (hybrid or bleed?). I mostly have experience with subterfuge hybrid for reference. Does anyone doing +12s or higher have preferences or personal reasoning why you would play one vs the other, just curious? Ty I'm rogue noob

[spice surge]

Id recommend bleed

[coral walrus]

what

[stuck knoll]

please don’t start again either of you I feel like everything that was necessary has been said

Nothing beneficial will come of round 2

Eleem explained it best

[royal lantern]

lol no

who told you that

[coral walrus]

is just what i saw whyspir simmed in his bleed talents video 3 weeeks ago

[royal lantern]

whisp is the last person on earth that will tell you to use something else then dslice

[coral walrus]

it s a screenshot from his video

[stuck knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/goofy-floating-swimming-floating-in-pool-emotionless-gif-14334739

[coral walrus]

min 9:35

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor pls make him listen man

i tried

[coral walrus]

you can just go look at his video lol

[frigid thunder]

Is there anything in particular you like about bleed more currently? Do you prefer subterfuge also?

[golden loom]

listen to what he says at 8min

idk if u just randomly took a screenshot of the video without watching/listening idk

[glacial relic]

I've tried to play both, it all comes down to personal preference. Choose ttk and forced ind if you like to blast more st and prio, if you want biggest overall stick with MA. I'd suggest to play ttk in dfc,top,rook,workshop others with MA

[frigid thunder]

appreciate the context, tyvm

[coral walrus]

explain

[golden loom]

isnt that what the video does

im not better at telling you the info that is in the video than the video it self

[coral walrus]

it says that it might be innacurate, and that usually there are no aoe sims/optimizing

you mean that he s using patchwerk for this specific situation only?

[golden loom]

yeah, that sim is about showing the difference of where the damage comes from for the 2 builds

[coral walrus]

ok

ty

[burnt star]

video where?

[coral walrus]

type Whyspir on youtube

[burnt star]

o from whyspir,

[golden loom]

its just his video about bleed build

[burnt star]

ya, i saw that, i thought eleem did a new video about bleed

was confused

[golden loom]

I almost died on hardcore typing out that..

[stuck knoll]

Just claim it was a ddos from a discord server

(FOR LEGAL PURPOSES THIS IS A JOKE)

[golden loom]

big brain

[vast shuttle]

when iam trying to sim gear this shows up? how do i fix?

[past bobcat]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[coral walrus]

you didn't select any item to compare

[stuck knoll]

If you want to sim just what you have equipped just do a quick sim

You are trying to do a top gear which is for comparing different items/talents

[little tulip]

idk on single target fights the pure bleed build is good but still kinda leaning toward hybrid more

also if you die only having deathmark

kinda hurts

[grand trail]

btw what is this ? never saw it before

[golden loom]

awful dagger

dont touch it

[spice spire]

Bad embellishment dagger

[stuck knoll]

Crafted dagger

[grand trail]

why it sim so high tho

[spice spire]

If you’re running droptomizer it doesn’t account for two embellishments already

[stuck knoll]

You cab’t use a droptimiser to sim the typical embellishments

[grand trail]

i see

[little tulip]

it's 675

https://tenor.com/view/get-beamed-idiot-quagsire-wooper-pokemon-beam-gif-13261511643487950969

[past bobcat]

[lean plover]

doing 14s/15s with bleed build and ye st is decent for being assa

feels so werid to keep ct and no kingsbane tho

[royal mauve]

Is the bleed build the way now? Archon still show's kingsbane

[dapper cradle]

hey guys is bleed build good

[grand trail]

isnt the st at bleed build really really low

i play hybrid and its fine

[novel star]

[dapper cradle]

it sims literally within 1%

[past bobcat]

ST

[grand trail]

hm idk than

[sonic schooner]

wait

[past bobcat]

vs hybrid with ttk

[sonic schooner]

u keep ct in st?

[dapper cradle]

yeah as bleed

[lean plover]

yes

[sonic schooner]

POGGERS

i like that

[dapper cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-superman-batman-v-superman-do-you-bleed-bleed-gif-19089630

[spice spire]

[lean plover]

yes its fun

[novel star]

the same things happening all of the time. even in my dreams

[dapper cradle]

gonna do some fat bleed build keys later

[lean plover]

weird to get used to it

[dapper cradle]

that shit gonna make me bussssssss

[sonic schooner]

bleed it is

[grand trail]

we bleeding i guees

[dapper cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/sam-hyde-hyde-wars-theatre-of-the-aire-gif-23835420

fatebound LOL

[sonic schooner]

yea

i just took

everything from wowhead

[grand trail]

man of culture

[spice spire]

Fatebound

In the year of our lord 2025

[grand trail]

bro just wait next class tunning

insane fatebound buff comming

[novel star]

It feels like

[dapper cradle]

next class tuning will have a boomy single target buff

[sonic schooner]

nah

[novel star]

i never left

[steady sphinx]

what a big discussion started just with one question hahahaha

[sonic schooner]

they gonna buff trickster and KS

[dapper cradle]

and a buff to unholy tier set

[sonic schooner]

mark my words

[dapper cradle]

it's either that or buff fatebound to keep it up with trickster

unironically

[spice surge]

Its just always up, if it wasnt you it wouldve been somebody else

Dw about it

[spice spire]

You never did queen

[novel star]

i left this place 4 months ago and nothing has changed we’re still talking about the same builds and the same balance

and fatebound in aoe

[spice spire]

Yeah but now we have memes

!richard

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1356363029951938700/image.png?ex=67ec4b02&is=67eaf982&hm=0780c2bf8a3eda7b622f455daac5267c32f3074f79ab55d181e8de68faf2a64e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[azure dirge]

They're going to nerf caustic splatter

[novel star]

that’s nice

[spice spire]

Good

[novel star]

cool maybe we’ll have something fun to do then

instead of just kingsbane and 500 envenoms

[steady sphinx]

did a few keys now with bleed build - so much fun and rly works well

[novel star]

hell yea.

[stuck knoll]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/750359704462688307/1357717675270340618/image.png?ex=67f1389e&is=67efe71e&hm=23fb8d22ac08e67147f95ee77bcfd1a27f7dd23cf84aa30145004460d99c5e46&

[spice spire]

Real

[grim jay]

you will literally just do the same

as now

[stuck knoll]

I am actually an expert I learned what dry shiving was yesterday

[novel star]

well the cope is they’d buff everything else

so we care about like

[dapper cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/dry-kinky-gif-5075064

[past bobcat]

Do you still setup DM just without KB

[novel star]

bleeds

[past bobcat]

Like shiv before

[novel star]

or something

[past bobcat]

etc

[spice spire]

How about I dry shiv you king

[spice spire]

No

[stuck knoll]

Double shiv with DM

[spice spire]

You just shiv on cd with bleeds up for aoe.
In st yeah

[stuck knoll]

This sounds painful

Like there will be chafing

[indigo sphinx]

You learned that like an hour ago lmao

[past bobcat]

Oh you actually double pop shiv huh

[spice spire]

Whoops

[stuck knoll]

I DID LEARN THIS AN HOUR AGO

[spice spire]

Wrong one

[stuck knoll]

[spice spire]

😈

[spice surge]

You dont need to envenom before deathmark, as you dont have kingsbane

Still do 2x shivs in deathmark

Keep CT up at all times

[spice spire]

Call me CT the way I’m up at all times

[stuck knoll]

@indigo sphinx I have logged on to my rogue this tier (it is my blacksmith)

[hardy dagger]

[spice spire]

Too busy demolishing

(Real)

[versed gulch]

Hey, CT. If all times is longer than 4 hours you should see a doctor.

[stuck knoll]

I don’t want to demolish anymore

[hardy dagger]

Exang will be back

[stuck knoll]

WHY DO I GET DRAGGED ON OAB

[spice spire]

If I’m up for more than 4 hours I’ll be calling a doctor but not for me

😈

[stuck knoll]

IT SAYS IN THE TOOLTIP IMMUNE TO MOVEMENT EFFECTS

[indigo sphinx]

Similar to last tier then yeah?

[stuck knoll]

WOAH

I sometimes did a 10 on it

[spice spire]

Dude look at that pfp

Ronkles is a certified rogue

[hot flicker]

I’m looking at trying out assassination have been playing sub so far but assassination actually low key looks more complicated is there any tips and advice you guys could give?

[past bobcat]

Whispyr knew all along

[stuck knoll]

Maintain bleeds avoid wasting combo points

Once you get used to it it is not too complicated

[hot flicker]

So I’m assuming you mean refreshing only below 6 seconds

[spice spire]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[golden loom]

Rupture is like 9 seconds or vibes

[hot flicker]

It’s more about the sequence you need to start cds

Am I right in saying it’s just apply bleeds vanish improve garrote shiv KB with DM

[spice spire]

What CDs (I’m not trying to antagonize, both builds don’t have a ton of sequencing)

[hot flicker]

Then spam envenom on caustic target

That’s what I’m reading unless I miss understand

[spice spire]

If you bleed you don’t kb, in raid you’re not vanishing for improved garrote anymore

BecUde we don’t run it

[golden loom]

and in hybrid you dont shiv instantly

[narrow mauve]

Btw. Is there a macro to target a target with deathstalkers mark(or whatever its called) so it can get easier to get to the marked target after your are done spreading around your garotes/ruptres willy nilly in bigger aoe pulls?

[final star]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[final star]

not that one uh

• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

makes it easier to pick it out

[narrow mauve]

appreciate it. Thanks 🙂

[sonic schooner]

no such macro sadly

[golden loom]

also you can just not swap away from the target

[sonic schooner]

unless u wanna bind target last target

[golden loom]

can do some mouseover bleeds if u care about losing the 1 bleed from sending IC on main target

[spice spire]

Kicks, uwucutegirl

Kicks

[golden loom]

mouseover kick dummy

[violet jackal]

Deathstalker your kick target

[hot flicker]

From what I read kb benefits from the bleeds?

[violet jackal]

Also double vanish in dungeons let’s us live our best demon hunter life every 2 minutes

[golden loom]

KB benefits from deathmark duplicating ur poison applications

[spice spire]

Bleed build not bleed the action

[hot flicker]

So with this bleed build it’s actually just apply bleeds and death mark?

[spice surge]

It plays pretty much the same as the other

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-nicholson-yes-nod-agree-gif-11928667053720670991

[hot flicker]

So when is shiv used if no kb

[spice surge]

2 during deathmark

And the rest whenever you want

[hot flicker]

Right okay I mean I guess I just try it and see what happens haha

[grand trail]

another one

[spice surge]

Shouldve just looted it first week bud

[grand trail]

true

i got kezan first week

[golden loom]

my helm has better stats haha noob!"

[grand trail]

shees

waht a gamer

[turbid pond]

guys does anyone have a pvp guide he recommends?

[stuck knoll]

#pvp probably the better place to ask @hollow river is the pvp guy of the CFs

[turbid pond]

Thanks, i will!

[random olive]

Best stats to put on rune branded kickers?

[chrome mirage]

Perception and Ingenuity, probly

[versed gulch]

EZ mode: Crit Mast. Hard mode: Sim for your stats but almost certainly Crit/Mast

[lavish wing]

Best stats for craft depend highly of ur current gear/stats so sim is always the answer

What u get for ur next craft could easily differ from the one afterwards

[versed gulch]

Even if your stats are weirdly scuffed the difference won't be much. Also might consider other combos if you play the other two specs

[golden loom]

almost got my first 5m overall in a +10 priory

[lavish wing]

DU DU DU DU

[golden loom]

a guy got 2 signets tho lol 1 warbound champ track + the hero track

[golden loom]

forgot to change my details nickname after stix

big bleed united

[bold bane]

i have same damage in detail but some rogue have Caustic Spatter first damage on detail and more damage out put then me anyone know the problem ?

[golden loom]

spatter on top sounds like hybrid build

[midnight atlas]

depends on dungeon but still ct should be top for hybrid

[bold bane]

i ply this build CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMzMzMzwMAAAAAAAzixsNDAAAAAAttMzMDzMYmZWmtxYwMzMzgZmZzyYGgNzyADYBsMMDYYZA

is that hybrid ? 🙂

[midnight atlas]

priory 3.3 mil overall. spatter very close to CT

this is hybrid, i dont think anyone will import to check

[bold bane]

yea i have same

[paper tapir]

Your CT top in hybrid builds?

[midnight atlas]

by 0,5%

[coral ibex]

you are misplaying then, spatter should be #1 by far as hybrid

[midnight atlas]

but depends on dungeons i have less uptime in priory

[coral ibex]

probably low uptime on the debuff

[grand trail]

guys do you clear witness on 2t with VV build

[midnight atlas]

priory + cinderbrew and rookery i got CT higher than spatter by 0.5-1.5%

[fallow canopy]

!fok

[prisma monolith]

Fok Conditions Post-Buff
Fan of Knives as a generator to replace ambush/mutilate:

• Baseline 3+ targets, -1 if talented into momentum of despair and thrown precision, +1 if talented into vicious venoms, +1 if talented into blindside. (Generally 5 with raid build, 3 with Bleed m+, 2 with Hybrid m+)
  Fan of Knives with Clear the Witnesses Up:
• Baseline 2+ targets, -1 if lingering darkness is up or you aren't talented into vicious venoms. With Vicious Venoms casting during lingering darkness is dps neutral.
  Fan of Knives with Darkest Night Up:
• Only on 2+ targets, or without Vicious Venoms talented. This is also a very very minor optimization

The most important to remember is the generator rules, clear the witnesses and darkest night optimizations can be effectively ignored as they are not meaningful DPS improvements

[midnight atlas]

rest is spatter

[bold bane]

tnx im try to fix

[kindred cobalt]

!macro

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[prime hull]

why does subterfuge have half the duration of the other stealth effects?

[grand trail]

guys this driving me crazy like it want me to drop circlet instead of second ring 😄

idk

i mean it do not want but its like 0,2

no way 658 jasto is same level as circlet but wrose than 665 ring

[coral ibex]

untick relative dps

and show what the actual number is

[grand trail]

its like

3k

[coral ibex]

so its margin of error

[coral ibex]

blue numbers are margin of error

[grand trail]

yeah buts thats fine but

jastor same as circlet but not as good as 665 random ring?

[coral ibex]

[grand trail]

like this is spatter 2t sim

[prime hull]

You are probably close enough crit mast stats that jastor flips your priory trinket from crit to mastery and thats causing a dps loss

[grand trail]

i just dont get it

[golden loom]

can u link the first sim

[grand trail]

i have 12k crit and 18k mastery now so

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/awz8YrTo14MiTibDvmxeek

[prime hull]

but you are switching a 5k crit ring for a 5k mastery ring

hmm idk then

[dawn heath]

Ye u have too low crit with jastor

Thats why it sims bad

[grand trail]

(im just tryint to figure out if i send that jastor to alt or keep on rogue since its warbound)

[golden loom]

I mean you would deffo use the other ring

its myth track

[grand trail]

yeah

[golden loom]

and jastor is champ track

[dawn heath]

Jastor is better when u can unequip your circlet and get a crit heavy ring

Or get the boe neck thst is crit heavy

[golden loom]

I mean the jastor is capped at 658 so its never gonna compete later on anyways

[grand trail]

but it compete now with circlet

[golden loom]

I mean not really, ur top gear is the circlet + the other ring

[grand trail]

and the 1t and 2t sim are equal

[golden loom]

and when other gear changes around etc later the jastor will probably be way worse

[grand trail]

i bring it up becasue i thoug that circlet is bis ring for us

[prime hull]

Jastor is really really bis as well but for some reason your stats dont support it.

[grand trail]

im losing it over nothing

[raven hill]

Is there no way to fit iron wire into the aoe build without losing a ton of damage?

[coral ibex]

you've contrived a set of circumstances where that might not be the case

[prime hull]

for keys, always take it

[coral ibex]

iron wire is less than a 1% loss in bleed build

[raven hill]

So do we drop 20% crit after stealth?

I've only ever played sub/outlaw for 20 years. Never once touched assassin so It's a whole new world for me 😆

[golden loom]

thats my go to personally, the wowhead guide has a section on options for iron wire

[timber meadow]

@balmy condor was doin a 15 brew last night and doing chewie completely dry seems like it'd be rough. kb isn't great but when you have a ton of mobs ontop of a mob like him that lives forever, it still feels like it'd be way better than bleed but iono. ofc my log got lost cause of maintenance or something iono they're just perma processessing

did play bleed in motherlode and it felt good

[balmy condor]

Sims have been updated twice with new findings since then, but yes we use dungeonslice for sims, I showed a couple of patchwerk sims as additional points

[coral ibex]

https://youtu.be/DQvEUQS8G8I?t=247

timestamp for iron wire numbies

[uneven plume]

Chinese route it and do left side with chewie and lust (only one muscle)

As first pull

[timber meadow]

yeah that's 100% the play

we wanted to do that but tank didn't understand

so we dned up doin chewie without dk cd's : /

[grand trail]

mr whispyr why is my 658 jastor sim as my circlet ?::D

[timber meadow]

although i think our idea was 3 muscles w/ chewie

[balmy condor]

Chewie is deathmark angle

[timber meadow]

it sounds insane

but its liveable

[balmy condor]

Lot of mastery

[timber meadow]

yeah for sure but then you either have to have a pokcet tank you know will do what you want every time.. or hold cd's on first pull

[grand trail]

i guees i just play jastor so other ppl mad that they dont have

[timber meadow]

but def agree that doin chewing + left side is def the play and you can do that and have dm for him it'd be really solid

[balmy condor]

Yeh or you just live with it and deathmark on cooldown and do big dam anyway

Just bleed, big singular focus gg

He’ll drop in execute at some point and you’ll get zold and blindside

It’ll be aight

[timber meadow]

well yeah you do big dam with kb too - just a matter of which will do more in a scenario where you dont have dm

i have to assume its kb but i dont have the logs so rip

[balmy condor]

In which you don’t have dm, would surprise me if it was kb

[timber meadow]

this is best i got kek with kb build

[balmy condor]

Kb without dm is definitely one of the talents of all time

[timber meadow]

idk if you're purposely conflating what i say to make it sound dumb

or you wanna have an actual convo

obv i have dm... its just on cd

[balmy condor]

I am having a convo

[dapper cradle]

[fallow canopy]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o2FWqgzQkMniQxpjyKdhMC jastor looking better with this setup, but don't know if you are interested in changing those

[balmy condor]

Who said you aren’t talented into dm lmao

What is happening

[uneven plume]

Whispyr how does KB feel though?

[dapper cradle]

toxic whispyr strikes again!

[balmy condor]

I’m saying kingsbane without dm is dogshit

[uneven plume]

How’s the feel on it

[grand trail]

holy moly crist haste neck

[timber meadow]

yeah but its better prio than bleed build without dm

or at least thats what im assuming

[balmy condor]

I doubt that

[dapper cradle]

bleedbuild without DM holy

what a cook

[balmy condor]

Somnius what the fuck are you talking about man

[fallow canopy]

the return of the crab?

[timber meadow]

like ffs... if yall actually run keys you reallize that sometimes you just dont have shit available

and tanks dont perfectly pull around your cd

[golden loom]

without dm = its on cooldown

[balmy condor]

ITS ON COOLDOWN

WHAT ARE WE DOING

[grand trail]

Cant drop that crit ring othewise i will look like i scammed in raid

[timber meadow]

i thought it was you doing it, I apologize

[dapper cradle]

you think I'm actually looking for context?

[coral ibex]

https://imgur.com/hWMw1rp

[dapper cradle]

i'm legit just running to conclusions immediately

[fallow canopy]

valid, gotta keep the morale up

[coral ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/mhw-monster-hunter-monster-hunter-wilds-finger-point-gif-15920010080149579513

[sacred schooner]

lol how did you win udk, was he afk?

[golden loom]

upgrade it to 6/6 myth and sim it again

[timber meadow]

he didn't have cd's - also assa pumps

[grand trail]

dont have crest left just spend them

[balmy condor]

I feel like I’m in a fever dream, bro is talking about prio damage on a big mob with a build that takes kingsbane, while deathmark is on cooldown

[grand trail]

gained like 3ilvl todays

[balmy condor]

And he’s saying it’s more prio

And I’m very unconvinced

[timber meadow]

this was entire first room trash

[sacred schooner]

i dunno i do like 80% udk damage all the time, feel so sad about it

[timber meadow]

were not hat far behyind decent dk's

[balmy condor]

Because the off-deathmark kingsbanes

Are really giga shit

[sacred schooner]

maybe i'm just bad :x

[balmy condor]

Because that’s how the cooldown works

[timber meadow]

prob still really far behind exceptional dk's

im only doing 14s and sometimes the occasional 15 so not playing with like top tier meta players

[golden loom]

isnt UHDK kinda rng

if u get like the blood thingy to spawn

[timber meadow]

yeah

idk just how rng though

[coral ibex]

become the uhdk

you have the power

[sacred schooner]

was it meadery?

[coral ibex]

flood

[earnest remnant]

Yeh just do 20mil more then u at dk

[timber meadow]

prob like first pull flood

[uneven plume]

You’re about 15mil short

[sacred schooner]

and udk will do 30 lol

if proc well

[timber meadow]

yeah a very good UHDK will dumpster us on trash

but unless you're doing like 16s you wont see the really good ones

last tier though... man all that dk hype and we'd dumpster even the top tier ones

[golden loom]

also they are playing a slow boring immobile class!

noobs!

[coral ibex]

[uneven plume]

Who needs to be fast when you can ignore 90% of mechanics

[real pike]

You can ignore 100% of mechanics when dead

[sacred schooner]

hahaha true

[fallow canopy]

still lower than with crit/haste neck

[sacred schooner]

but yeah i feel like rogues super tanky

[grand trail]

damn there must so many chines guild looking at logs 😄

[glad holly]

so Ive been reading the wowhead guide and maybe I missed it but a question i have is when playing the bleed build in M+ with no kingsbane, when are we shiving on single target?

[golden loom]

2 shivs with dm and otherwise whenever u feel like

[glad holly]

awesome, thanks for the quick answer 😄

[sacred schooner]

is there new video about bleed build whispyr? are we gonna play it in m+ since its not too far behind or not, sometimes had to jump around like monkey and cant hit one target constantly

so in this situation bleed should be better probably

like if there is udk\fire mage shit dies way too quick in 12, probably it is better in higher keys

[grand trail]

!bandit

[golden loom]

I mean if u have a lot of aoe in ur lower keys

u just snipe all their damage

[golden loom]

like stuff gets into execute range and just pop

and you get all the damage

[balmy condor]

I need to record an update yes

[lime fern]

Wish Assas was less gear dependent I don’t have much time to play anymore so lower ilvl but still doing relevant damage

[spice spire]

I got your thumbnail already king

Dw

[little tulip]

i think i confused what lingering darkness was proc'd by today but hit 8-10m on first pull in a cinder 11

[spice spire]

Once dm ends you get 30s of lingering darkness

[balmy condor]

What

[little tulip]

must shiv on cooldown i like shiv i like arterial precision

yeah

[spice spire]

I’d argue that sin is not very gear dependent maybe even the least of all 3 options

At least less than outlaw

[little tulip]

dev evoker is casually doing 16m

[sacred schooner]

outlaw the most assa the least isnt it?

[balmy condor]

Sin is the least by far yes

I mean lowkey what does gear dependent even mean

But that’s a whole different thing

[spice spire]

Can’t play without 8-10% haste!!

[haughty flicker]

i mean there are some situations

[lime fern]

Nah I just wanna log on and top meters with no gear 😄

[spice spire]

“Outlaw probably”

[little tulip]

also time to get good at mouse over rupturing i think ?_?

[lime fern]

Make me OP

[sacred schooner]

i think he is trolling

[lime fern]

I no troll 🧌

[haughty flicker]

dev cant play flameshaper without 4p and a certain amount of haste so they can engulf correctly

[golden loom]

I mean depends, if ur doing low keys as sin, u will top damage with low gear

[haughty flicker]

but thats not a thing for sin lmao

[balmy condor]

I think I should go back to bed

[golden loom]

or idk meow meow meow

[sacred schooner]

haha

[grand trail]

or record that new bleed video

[balmy condor]

Idk what happened today but the channel is on fire

[sacred schooner]

friday

[spice spire]

Shitposting early

[lime fern]

Hahaha drama keeps me alive

[spice spire]

Sorry king

[haughty flicker]

shitposting way too early

[little tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/quagsire-quagsire-plush-plush-quagsireplush-gif-16161704482637457260

[haughty flicker]

wait ap is just some dude yelling

why

[spice spire]

He’s angry

[haughty flicker]

oh theres a tiny sword at the edge

what a shit icon

[orchid pewter]

Angry that he got stabbed

[spice spire]

We don’t even vanish in raid anymore. This graphic is washed

[sacred schooner]

i like this one

[spice spire]

[sacred schooner]

esp when when we are just jack of all trades

[little tulip]

normally i press t for kingsbane but now

[sacred schooner]

not superior at anything

[little tulip]

that's for rupture

[golden loom]

rupture on T 🤝

[lime fern]

Tricks on the highest dps and pull extra

Bis damage

[sacred schooner]

alt+3 on me haha

[haughty flicker]

actually i just realized i dont have t bound to anything lmao

[hearty reef]

[coral ibex]

fok on T smh

rupture on R

[golden loom]

fok on E

[astral plover]

kingsbane on t

[lime fern]

T is shadowstep fym

[golden loom]

envenom on R

[coral ibex]

garrote on E

[little tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/yall-wish-me-luck-gif-10587294

[astral plover]

Fok on Shift + q

[sacred schooner]

garrote f

[coral ibex]

envenom on F

[sacred schooner]

what happened to chat today btw so active

[astral plover]

Mutilate on 2

[sacred schooner]

is everyone drunk?

[little tulip]

shadowstep on ctrl modifiers is grief btw

[coral ibex]

shadowstep on G

[lime fern]

Mutilate on ‘

[little tulip]

ur g's

[coral ibex]

for Get me out of this shit

[sacred schooner]

` for kick

[lime fern]

Hahahaha

[astral plover]

s=kick

[little tulip]

normie rupture is 2 but t for mouseover rupture is fine

[dapper cradle]

shadow step on shift-L

[golden loom]

different bind for mouseover rupture is crazy

[lime fern]

Shift-l is campfire btw

[humble verge]

which dung do you guys consider the fastest dung?

is it rookery or cleft

[astral plover]

Deadmines

[sacred schooner]

isnt it meadery?

[lime fern]

Cleft

[little tulip]

there's a macro for targeted and mouseover right?

[sacred schooner]

rookery cancer

run baby run

[humble verge]

idk

meadery is worse than rookery

icl

[golden loom]

I mean mouseover functions as a normal rupture if u just dont mouseover anything

[random talon]

hows assassin compared to sub? still pretty fun?

[sacred schooner]

cleft more fun but i hate cart

if you want low apm and still do good damage assa is fine yeah

[runic hinge]

just like you

[spice spire]

Buddy the only thing washed about me is my cock that’s been pristinely cleaned by ur pops

Sorry you didn’t deserve that

[runic hinge]

yeah i didn't and my dad is dead! HAH

[sacred schooner]

wow chill

we are brotherhood

[spice spire]

I said what I said

[runic hinge]

real

[manic sphinx]

Heyas, is it worth levelling cooking for that hearty food?

[runic hinge]

your guild will like you

[spice spire]

Hearty food is kinda of busted

Yeah

[quasi coyote]

it took me like 10 min and its cheap so probably

[manic sphinx]

Guild already has chefs :p

Awesome, thx - will level it up and get the tools, etc

[sacred schooner]

yeah it is dirty cheap

[quasi coyote]

u dont even need tools but they r probably cheap so

the green ones

[sacred schooner]

still miss one from df

yes, chef

!

[manic sphinx]

oh, thought i'd craft the blue ones

[sacred schooner]

why they remove it

[quasi coyote]

nah bro if ur just making food for urself u dont need crafted tools

[manic sphinx]

awesome, kk, thx

[quasi coyote]

plus beledars bountys are dirt cheap so sving resources and shit is so minimal

assuming ur gonna use beledars

[manic sphinx]

Yea, fair

No point getting resourceful procs if the resources themselves are so low

[quasi coyote]

yea it does something but for the time and effort put into getting them crafvted def not worth imo

when u can just buy the green ones from ah and forget about it

[latent umbra]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[severe sparrow]

i forgot chef tools were a thing

like that they existed for cooking at all

lmao

[shy stream]

Does anyone have dps comparison between different races for assassination rogue? Want to change stuff up by moving away from night elf, but not sure which race to try

[runic hinge]

bloodmallet.com

[shy stream]

Oh right completely forgot about that site. thank you!

[runic hinge]

I will tell you it's not worth race changing cause nelf can do flips

[sacred schooner]

!tricks

[spice surge]

If you get the ring from bandit youll always flip

[prisma monolith]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[runic hinge]

telling my raid leader i need it for bis

[neon lodge]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

• Energy just is low on the spec there's nothing to do about it, you will run out
• Only one pooling condition exists (pool around 4 seconds before non-deathmark kingsbanes until 150ish energy). This is worth 0.3%
• Other optimizations are simply not impactful enough to show a benefit in sims, but pooling before quick-dying add spawns could in theory be a practical gain to pad.

[neon lodge]

So no more pooling to chain envenoms? 😦

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Assassination uses no other macro aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[balmy condor]

No

[humble verge]

hmmm, decent BL33DM4XX1N6 in cleft

66% uptime on ct

🤨

[spice spire]

Only 3.43M

[humble verge]

idk

first time trying bleed

ome

and actually finishing the run

[spice spire]

Is uberscot washed

[humble verge]

i am

always will be

[hardy rapids]

He’s awake!

[spice spire]

The other dps is uh

Sketchy at best

[balmy condor]

Sadly

Against my better judgement

[soft shale]

sleep more later

[spice spire]

GM king

[golden loom]

wake and quake

[timber meadow]

@balmy condor what would you remove for iron wire in bleed build ?

[hardy rapids]

I gotta be fucking DUMB if I can only hit 2.8-3 mil max

[timber meadow]

y7eah hm

[hardy rapids]

Waaaah

[warm vortex]

!Rik

[prisma monolith]

Rik Reverb Barrels (and similar spread cleave in raid)

• Not your problem.
• Assassination is the worst target swapping spec in the game, and we have no tools available to deal with the situation of priority spread cleave. Caustic can reach sometimes but similar to fire mage, the boss needs to be on top of the adds, causing caustic to often be out of range.
• If you're truly hellbent on swapping to barrels, hold your nearest darkest night and just slam a darkest night envenom into them and pray. If you're quick enough you can also pool combo points/energy and cast a rupture on a barrel to try and caustic off of them. This still will not do good barrel damage, again, the spec is doomed for it
• Another possible option would be talenting into Crimson Tempest by untalenting Bone Spike and Doomblade. This CAN TECHNICALLY provide a bit of barrel damage, but the spawns need to be immaculate and any difficult spawns will just result in no barrel damage again.
  With all that, the best advice we have for swapping barrels:
• Swap to Subtletly.

[warm vortex]

!richard

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1356363029951938700/image.png?ex=67ec4b02&is=67eaf982&hm=0780c2bf8a3eda7b622f455daac5267c32f3074f79ab55d181e8de68faf2a64e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[humble verge]

im like

664

idk if that gives you a reference

[hearty reef]

gm whysyr

[hardy rapids]

I’m 657 bro

I must not be min maxing the rotation hard enough

[feral veldt]

hola how much mastery and crit % do we want? cant seem to find it anywhere

[golden loom]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Signet of the Priory will require you have Mastery as your highest RATING (the actual number, not the %). Having Crit and Mastery close to one another will cause procs from Flask or Seaforium Pacemaker to cause your Signet to give you Crit. This is generally worse and will cause Signet to sim poorly.
• Compared to each other, Deathstalker wants more Mastery/Haste than Fatebound, and Fatebound wants more Crit than Deathstalker
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[coral ibex]

i wonder why you can't find that info anywhere

hmmm

[feral veldt]

awesome sauce

wait since when was this outdated? is it the same for the other specs

[coral ibex]

?

[golden loom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIeERWCcc34 good video on the subject

[feral veldt]

ooo thanks

[timber meadow]

15s and ripped key lol 15 priory

[feral veldt]

damn nick of time what a throwback

[golden loom]

yeah I mean I didn't even start before playing before tww but concepts are easy enough to understand

[raven hill]

I'm going cross eyed simming all these builds. Can someone please send me your favorite m+ build with iron wire?

[golden loom]

just swap master assassin to ironwire and ur gucci

gives u all the stuff that makes M+ fun: 2x vanish, bonespike, IW

[feral veldt]

yeah pretty much i just remember there being breakpoints

[raven hill]

Oh no kingsbane? Will I struggle on boss damage or be fine with mark? Thank you so much!

[golden loom]

yeah I guess outlaw has its haste breakpoint thingy but

[golden loom]

it does the same or better or a little bit worse depending on things, but it has blindeside and zoldyck which do work in ST

especially blindside feels very good

[raven hill]

I hate not having it

Blindside I mean

[timber meadow]

it is odd that people tend to automatically assume bleed is worse in st when in reality if anything its the other way around in my experience

hbrid goes hard in the paint on trash (they both do tbh)

[golden loom]

I mean before the tuning we got it deffo was worse in ST, not by much then either but

[timber meadow]

yeah ig not many people play the game a lot

[haughty flicker]

Well yeah people assume that because that’s how it was

[raven hill]

I just assumed KB was like 4% ST

[golden loom]

Mutilate/ambush buff did more for bleed build cause it can take blindside

[haughty flicker]

Yeah that’s the other thing, people see no kb and assume lower st

Forgetting kb is a shadow of what it was

[sacred schooner]

what build you run mostly? hybrid?

[timber meadow]

i was running almost exclusively hybrid but whispyr has a lot of convinction in bleed so im trying it out

[sacred schooner]

i feel like like i need to try bleed since i cant even do full kb in biggest hp mob

but its low keys ofc 11-12

[raven hill]

😆 listen I'm here for it. Taking KB out takes a lot of thinking out

[timber meadow]

oh yeah if you're doing 11-12 its 100% bleed

without question

[sacred schooner]

mobs die too fast

[timber meadow]

kb already kinda sucks even when mobs live its full duration

[haughty flicker]

I refuse to believe anyone can watch eleem get a 30m sudden demise proc and not immediately become a bleed believer

A bleedliever if you will

[storm forum]

Bleed build does make me wanna leave

[timber meadow]

i mean a lot of the stuff people post like that are in like 10s and shit

[storm forum]

A bleedleaver

[timber meadow]

which isn't inherently mean its bad but it makes it tougher to automatically believe

[hollow gust]

whats the bleed build?

[raven hill]

My mastery may be a bit low, but simming no KG shows me losing 10% st over 4 min

[timber meadow]

like i could also blast the fuck off in a 10 lol

[golden loom]

Bleed build also gives you the minigame of trying to get insane demise pops

[timber meadow]

iono just gotta try both, whisper is pretty convincing about bleed

[spice spire]

Blindside makes st feel a lot better

Even if it’s still gabagool damage

[haughty flicker]

#assassination message

Was a 12 so still not super high but look at the dopamine

[golden loom]

I mean also, bleed is running zoldyck so even in higher keys were packs live longer, it means they are in execute range for longer

giving insane zoldyck value

[haughty flicker]

Bleed is the way forward

Stop living in the past

The future is now

[balmy condor]

Real

Idk I think bleed is just straight up better if only because of the sudden demise damage

[frigid thunder]

For m+ with subterfuge does anyone have any big preference of the point for 1/2 lethality vs 2 charge vanish. I imagine it’s not a huge deal either way.

[humble verge]

rookery 11, 75% CT uptime this one :D

[balmy condor]

It was like 8.5% overall in a 14 cinderbrew

[golden loom]

2x vanish good

[balmy condor]

Vanish is just objectively better

[humble verge]

i feel bleed is like

giga gaming

but in high keys it wont be good

[frigid thunder]

Ok thanks!!

[golden loom]

based on what

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-made-it-up-gif-25653819

[humble verge]

youre lacking ST imo

atleast thats what i feel

[balmy condor]

It’s more st

[sacred schooner]

so we give up on iron wire for ma and do double vanish? ;o

[balmy condor]

[humble verge]

are you sure

🤨

[balmy condor]

Yes

[worn marsh]

Bleed build and hybrid sim within like 0.5% on every mdt 15 I've looked at

[humble verge]

idk

i had 75% uptime CT

on the 1st boss

maybe i just suck

Okayge

[golden loom]

I mean CT isnt whats making it better in ST

[timber meadow]

similarsh - was in 13 cinderbrew

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[keen spruce]

[worn marsh]

Do people play outlaw and sin on the same character or are cursed opposite stat weights too much

[balmy condor]

You can just get gear

[golden loom]

I mean I only play sin and I am at 15% haste

might aswell swap to outlaw

[balmy condor]

Like if you super can’t stand using the same gear and being slightly suboptimal

Just get other gear

[humble verge]

idk, does this feel pisslow for a 11 rook

compared to you

[timber meadow]

whatcha mean - you're doing more SD than I did

[balmy condor]

That looks about right tbh

[golden loom]

a 10 priory I did today

[timber meadow]

i haven't played bleed a lot, so maybe i need to get more ruptures/garrotes off

[subtle tundra]

assa lacks st, not bleed or hybrid

dumb fucking design

shit talent tree

[haughty flicker]

Buff ct more to fix our st in keys

[subtle tundra]

they gave up spatter then added 10 more aoe only talents

[sacred schooner]

just forget about boss damage do good overall

[timber meadow]

wait why is your garrote dmg so high but only 12.3% uptime? details must be scuffed

[sacred schooner]

we just suck at st nothing can fix it

[subtle tundra]

that are just too fucking important for aoe

[sacred schooner]

even buffs didnt fix much

[wise whale]

even in raid

a dry shivved lingering darkness envenom > KB

[balmy condor]

Details tracks the deathmark garrote for fun

The uptime numbers are huge bullshit