assassination

[waxen oyster]

less brain required

buff good

[zinc frost]

Im more excited about stamina buff from wearing 4 set

[waxen oyster]

people look at that?

[balmy condor]

I don't even know how much health we have these days

are we over a million again

I guess we probably are

[zinc frost]

Something like that

[balmy condor]

are we over 10 mil?

I remember dot ticks doing like 1.5 or something so has to be close to 10 maybe

or like 8

[rotund marsh]

ngl i didnt even notice the 3% all damage dealt

pretty great jeez

[zinc frost]

Whilst I totally get we use new 4pc over old, but do you know numbers wise what the 10 to 5 vile tincture change is? Just curious

[balmy condor]

half

[lethal arrow]

all those single target fights this tier

(locknstock)

[sharp wadi]

We're still using Mutilate+Ambush constantly

And +3% blanket buff

[waxen oyster]

well yeah how are you gonna build without mutilate

[rotund marsh]

to be fair both were doing 0 damage before

[waxen oyster]

fok only build

[rotund marsh]

but now they might do a bit

also gonna feel 10x better questing and stuff, which is not a useless thing imo

[waxen oyster]

questing lmao

[rotund marsh]

i mean it feels good when buttons kill things fast

[waxen oyster]

yeah spec sub

stuff dies the second you press secret tech

[rotund marsh]

true

backstab is fun too

but assa has garrote and poison stuff

which is cooler 🙂

[waxen oyster]

questing in this game kind of a meme

[rotund marsh]

i mean i enjoy questing, feeling a little better doing it isnt worthless

[zinc frost]

Garrot 1 garrot 2

[rotund marsh]

but yeah either way, these buffs are nice af

btw vivacity or ascendance?

[waxen oyster]

they buffed sin because community is stupid

and thinks sub is that much stronger rn

oh well free damage

[rotund marsh]

to be fair, early on when you see sub bursting 5 mil ST..

but yeah they fall off so fast lol

[waxen oyster]

why do people stare at their dps meter

is beyond me

[rotund marsh]

seeing youself do a lot of damage is fun

knowing that your doing a big % on the boss is nice

[waxen oyster]

I mean you do you i dont really look until fight's over.

[lofty junco]

so sin buffs are live after the next weekly reset?

[waxen oyster]

sub bursts alot because it literally does nothing outside of cds

[zinc frost]

I just would've been happy for a buff to compensate nerfing s1 tier set

[waxen oyster]

reset

[lofty junco]

reset or weekly reset?

[balmy condor]

isn't that what we just got

[lofty junco]

[zinc frost]

But we will do more than we used to!

[dawn heath]

Nerds

[bronze plover]

morning what we gonna run in our m+ talent if we gonna take blindside i mean loose what points to get blindside?

[dawn heath]

No chance our m+ build changes or

[bronze plover]

Talent wise, for bleed build in m+ you'd be silly to not run blindside now whipur said

[runic hinge]

if you are playing bleed build you'd drop ttb

[burnt drum]

Do we get 2 magnet uses during lingering darkness procs

[bronze plover]

should we even change singet/house of cards + seaforuim/eye of kezan?

[dapper cradle]

do we FOK in 12 targets?

[warm drum]

!snap

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of snapshotting

Bleeds update their tick rate dynamically, which means that if you get a haste proc (which increases our tick rate) from somewhere during the encounter (ie. Power Infusion), the bleeds would automatically tick faster, but the second your haste goes back to normal, the tick rate goes back down as well.

Snapshotting refers to getting that haste proc, reapplying bleeds at the faster tick rate, but instead of the bleeds going back to a slower tick rate when your haste drops, they would continue ticking at a faster rate until they expire or are reapplied.

[pliant remnant]

No, you only use Poisoned Knife in 12+ targets

[dreamy rover]

oh shi

new whispyr vid dropped

[manic sphinx]

Need to update/remove this pin now

[pliant remnant]

Need to read the last sentence of that pin now

[balmy condor]

who's gonna tell him

[manic sphinx]

Oh, lol

[pliant remnant]

[manic sphinx]

My bad 😬

[dreamy rover]

whispyr

[pliant remnant]

Need to uncapitalize "piece, "is", "weekly", "tuning", "the" and "bonuses" btw

[dreamy rover]

any way to sim damage trinkets after hotfixes?

[manic sphinx]

Or put that at the start of the sentence for distracted ppl like me 😆

[balmy condor]

thanKs for Your inputS

[indigo mulch]

[pliant remnant]

Whispyr goes on a half an hour-long rant about how he's seen heat maps on Wowhead guides and how people literally don't scroll down a little to get the info they then come to ask on here

Waits a couple hours

Is mentioned by a guy who can't even read two sentences at a time

[indigo mulch]

tiktok brain yo.

[pliant remnant]

I truly admire your patience, Whispyr

[indigo mulch]

No attention span.

[pliant remnant]

God bless

[indigo mulch]

i honestly wonder if i'm ever going to get a pair of bracers. I haven't seen a pair of leather bracers drop anywhere other then raid. And then ofc it went to the resto druid that re-rolled the next day ._.

[rotund oak]

thanks for everything that u do bb 🫶

[cerulean nest]

so getting the delve trinket is literally just a matter of opening the map chest once a week in a t8?

[rotund oak]

something along those lines yeah

just do delves

[cerulean nest]

but I mean its not in normal bountiful chests, its specifically in the extra special map one right?

the higher ilvl one

[runic hinge]

and tthe vault

on tuesday

[cerulean nest]

right

[golden flax]

If we play all 3 specs of rogues whats the best weapon to craft?

[dreamy rover]

dagger

[golden flax]

outlaw cant use a dagger ya?

[dreamy rover]

off hand

[indigo mulch]

I don't think they want to use dagger offhand tho

[blazing pumice]

yes they do

it's more instant poison procs

[indigo mulch]

o0

[blazing pumice]

prob craft crit/vers dagger

mastery is downright dogshit on outlaw

[golden flax]

thank you

[buoyant herald]

does vicious venoms spatter?

[indigo mulch]

the 70% part does

[buoyant herald]

neat

[indigo mulch]

I haven't seen a single outlaw rogue running dagger offhand, everyone i see is running fist from raid

[blazing pumice]

it probably has better stats

you can !oh in #outlaw if you want to see the bot

[pastel apex]

So next patch are we top tier?

Buff seems good

[tawny nimbus]

Does anyone know how much buff/nerf this sin tuning is?

[dreamy rover]

@balmy condor possibly maybe perchanceably bleed build viable for higher keys after these ST buffs?

or no

*haven't seen video yet, sorry if you've already addressed this

[balmy condor]

probably not much difference

[tall elm]

its + dmg on stuff that doesnt really do dmg

[dreamy rover]

fair

[pastel apex]

So buff sucks?

[golden loom]

Viscious venoms makes cauldron easier lets goo

[dreamy rover]

looking forward to testing buffs practically

[tall elm]

All ability damage increased by 3% (does not affect PvP).
Mutilate damage increased by 40% (does not affect PvP).
Ambush damage increased by 40% (does not affect PvP).

and a nerf to the old 2 piece

i mean its a buff dont get me wrong but the biggest buff on there is prolly the 3% to all

[pastel apex]

Ah ok

I thought our damage on mutilate would be higher

40% is such more

[golden loom]

It is big

[midnight arrow]

yeah the buff to mut is not small

[rotund oak]

yeah its considerable

generally its the rogue love we all wanted

it feels like cheesecake

[humble cradle]

Random and maybe this is common knowledge for some but I realized you can manipulate windsingers runed citrine to say give mastery even if crit, vers or haste is actually your highest secondary

[balmy condor]

yeah it's not uncommon knowledge but it's also not really helpful

[humble cradle]

Yeah tbh I haven’t simmed any of it I just wanted my mastery to be higher than my crit.

[subtle tundra]

bruh they buffed assa

lol

[ancient rain]

Our 0.11% wipe on Stix mythic was God preventing me from passing on the trinket

[runic hinge]

Bro did you see how much they buffed mutilate??????????? Smh my head

[dapper cradle]

Yeah mutilate buffs are massive

I’ll take fok off my bars

Better to just mutilate in infinity target counts

[runic hinge]

real

[soft surge]

We take fok of bars

[ancient rain]

I don't feel so good mr stark

[subtle tundra]

such undeserved nerfs for monk.

[runic hinge]

Green rogue paying for liquids sins

[subtle tundra]

the sins are solid

[maiden gale]

guyz are u running a supercharger build in any m+?

[soft surge]

Where to get this n word trinket

[ancient rain]

delve

[soft surge]

Oof

[ancient rain]

I had it hero track in my vault 1st week ree

[soft surge]

Yea I should check deleted items

[hearty seal]

so uh
Mut/Ambush buff is gonna net us circa
+5% damage overall? considering that it's not that big in terms of relative raw damage contribution

[golden loom]

[hearty seal]

cool cool
oh boy, we actually pick vicious venoms now
holy

nature is healing?

[golden loom]

Vanish for lost marks just as god intended

[subtle tundra]

assa got a 3% aura buff

aswell.

[hearty seal]

unironically glad

[golden loom]

2 weeks and aura buff gets reverted

[pastel apex]

😦

[candid ocean]

Do i just wait to use house of cards for 30 seconds so it lines up with deathmark?

[subtle tundra]

so what i understand from the buffs is that we lose even more ST by going from raid to m+

[fierce sigil]

Wait What?

[subtle tundra]

we lose more st than before when going from raid to m+

[golden loom]

Bro found a negative way to spin single target buffs

[subtle tundra]

well its one of the big flaws of assa

for m+

[golden loom]

Generational hater I cannot lie

[subtle tundra]

the spec has a big st dmg issue in m+

[golden loom]

It will do more m+ ST next patch than this patch though (ik what you mean with bigger diff between raid ST and M+ ST)

[subtle tundra]

yeah but lets say last season it lost 20% from raid to m+, now its losing 20.7%

cause of talent changes

I PULLED THE NUMBERS OUT OF MY ASS

[faint path]

Literally I give up my assas rogue… insane unlimited fun aoe but at single target its just boring low asf damage at 662 ilvl compared to other classes

[ionic fox]

Is there a link to the sim in Whispy's video?

[dreamy rover]

[faint path]

Im unholy dk atm

[zenith elm]

We just got buffed a lot in ST, your loss 🙂

[crisp stream]

true still St in m+ will feel meh right?

[supple spindle]

With Vicious, we don't cast fok for clear the witnesses in single target (this is old), pooling conditions don't change, you can fok or mut on 6 for darkest night (no change), and in aoe you would fok on 4 targets, not 3 (this one is actually new)

please someone decipher this for

explain like im 5

like, we don't cast fok in st EVER or what?

[golden loom]

No more FoKing

[distant plinth]

Damn, i love foking…

[supple spindle]

damn, so i gotta watch this shiny button and not press it?

[ancient rain]

everybody wanna fok

[distant plinth]

Fok is the bestest

[dapper halo]

what

assa is getting a buff

did i catch that right

[distant plinth]

Yes

[visual hemlock]

If boss has adds, you can fok then, just on pure singletarget no foking

[dapper halo]

looks like st buff

[balmy condor]

if you wanna be super cringe like some unhinged guys in my dm's in the past, you can just use the URL that I didn't hide in this video.

For like TWW beta and some PTR shit I had to hide the sim URL cause some brainlets go absolutely feral for any sim links regardless of how unnecessary the actual info in them is to look at

now, I don't recommend you do that, cause you don't need to

but if you can't stop yourself from doing that

I won't know

just don't bother me about it afterwards

[spring socket]

do we still want to be chasing Cards over mega magnet from the raid ?

[balmy condor]

card/signet is your first slot

magnet is not a stat on use

they're competing for different slots

[spring socket]

probs got better chance with farming floodgate

[dreamy rover]

btw whispyr, using magnet w/ lingering darkness is pretty much equal to pacemaker or is that magnet w/o lingering darkness?

[dapper halo]

ive lost the count of priory runs ive done

but thanks to the Trinket Obsession, it has taught me how to play better

[spring socket]

i got HOC quite luckily in raid it was BIS for a lot of the guild so they rolled it

[ancient rain]

seems like anything more than 5 minutes, eye of kezan is still bis

[spring socket]

obvs we killed 1 arm hc a week later and i loose out though

[dapper halo]

i want kevin spacey trinket <3 maybe sunday

[subtle tundra]

if a rogue got hoc id be upset

[spring socket]

there was a few upset people

im still torn between wat i prefer for keys with bleed/hybrid

[dapper halo]

what does pookie even mean

what is whispy senpai calling us

[subtle tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-cat-meme-cat-memes-cats-memes-gif-3725975606235869555

[dapper halo]

he woke up the cat 🐱

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-cat-heart-kitty-meow-gif-5821379707582572205

[crisp stream]

!up

[golden loom]

that gif needs some hardstyle

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[dapper halo]

cats are love <3

[balmy condor]

it's like tier 1 internet brainrot

[subtle tundra]

yeah but its cute brainrot

[sonic zinc]

still use 2/2 until reset?

or is this just a sim thing

[shy creek]

@sonic zinc

[sonic zinc]

ah

ty

[distant plinth]

Time to re farm assa stuffs and recraft then!

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-dragon-ball-super-super-saiyan-blue-gif-25027706

[dreamy rover]

no need stats arent as impactful as you think they are for sin

just sim yourself, run droptimizer etc,

or go all in into sin if you plan on only playing it

[distant plinth]

Think all my gear got pretty much vers/mas

[dull prism]

Will the changes impact anything, talent wise?

[shy creek]

Read the pins

[crimson crest]

do we have any idea on how close this buff brings ST damage in m+ to sub?

[subtle tundra]

around 4%

or 5%

one of the two

i think 5...

[distant plinth]

for sub?`sub didnt get buffed 😄

or did it?

[subtle tundra]

but assa did

[balmy condor]

how close ST damage is to sub in m+?

well it's like what

25% behind?

[gentle ore]

I think he means compared to sub

[balmy condor]

30%?

and this is like 5%

[subtle tundra]

fuck meme spec this ass

[grim jay]

its not hard to find one if the buff is partly a mut buff

[subtle tundra]

wake me up when they design a good assa

[grim jay]

mut is lame

[rugged zodiac]

Hello i am new to assas and i keep running out of energy on singel target, any tips?

[balmy condor]

y'all would literally be mad about anything

[balmy condor]

play a different spec, you signed up for running out of energy by playing assa

[grim jay]

I'm historically always mad about no cd generator buffs

[subtle tundra]

im historically always mad

[strange python]

not pushing buttons helps to not run out of energy too, just stand there

[shy creek]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

• Energy just is low on the spec there's nothing to do about it
• Super Min-Max stuff includes avoiding the auto proc of tea (less than +0.2%, tea/shiv macro is optimal)
• Refreshing Envenom in pandemic instead of spamming it (mostly relevant for m+ without TTK, can be up to 0.5%)
• Otherwise nothing matters. Pooling before kingsbanes isn't important because of tea lining up and deathmark giving a huge surge of energy

[shy creek]

@rugged zodiac

[subtle tundra]

but it also helps out in running out of energy, sanguine blades is a thing

lol

[strange python]

touche

[grim tree]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hoary scroll]

hey guys, will assa be good in raid after next patch? 🙂

or will sub still be way to go in mythic progress

[golden loom]

Assa is already good and getting a buff

so probably very good

[echo island]

So

So no HoC & Eye anymore for bis trinkets?

[balmy condor]

eye only for mythic raiding

[echo island]

Ah makes sense due to the longer encounter timers to get value out of it

[keen mantle]

My tanks chain pulls sorry

It’s good for m+

[lusty kraken]

damn assa actually got a buff, that's crazy

[balmy condor]

fucking cope lmao

you drop the eye buff once in a key it's over

you lose combat before a boss

its over

trinket is dead for that boss

nice trinket bud

[grim jay]

I'm really happy that its not absurdly overtuned anymore

comparatively

hate trinkets like that

[red schooner]

Am I right in thinking that raidbots will be updated for the tier set changes when the game update happens?

[quartz trellis]

Aye feels bad when you don’t get the RNG

[balmy condor]

yes

[red schooner]

Cheers

[vestal cliff]

woke up to assa buffs and new whispyr vid , life is goooooooooooood

[red schooner]

Pookies eating well this morning

[hot pasture]

buff are live?

[silent drift]

I'm sure it got stated somewhere in the moshpit above, but when is the new sim coming out for ass

[golden loom]

on reset

[hot pasture]

uwu best spec again

[quartz trellis]

When the buffs do I would imagine

[balmy condor]

sims always update with the game

[peak bobcat]

with no imp gar and MA when would we vanish in st?

[balmy condor]

so trinket buffs are hotfixed, they're in the game, they are simmable

class tuning is on reset

[golden loom]

for mechanics / when you lose mark

[balmy condor]

so they will not be in sims until reset

[silent drift]

ahhhh

[quartz trellis]

You wouldn’t update sims ahead of buffs because it would skew the live data/sims 😂😂

[drifting cloud]

ty for getting assa buffed king I dodge the spec swap yet again

[balmy condor]

I didn't do shit!

[sharp viper]

Good job!

[unkempt vine]

bUFS ARE crazy, because on Heroic week Rogue ass was the most used spec and ST was doing ok'ish dmg

Now Ass gona close the gap on ST where we were losing to other specs

[royal lantern]

im touching myself

[blazing pumice]

idk i'm calling a spatter nerf next

flying too close to the sun

[royal lantern]

im asking for a spatter/CT nerf for ages now

[peak bobcat]

stop calling for nerfs for my underrepresented class!

[red schooner]

With master assassin and improved garrote not being taken now if we go vicious venoms, do we use vanish in the deathmark window at all?

Or am I missing something

It's probably the latter idk, I'm sleepy

[royal lantern]

probs not

its like playing CT in raids, Vanish is just not used anymore

[red schooner]

Hell yeah, I can save it for if deathstalkers drops off somehow

[golden loom]

Even less brainpower needed for cauldron

[celest drift]

So, what's the deal with trinkets? Priory/magnet double use?

[subtle tundra]

well you wanna use magnet after your CDs anyways

so it doesnt matter if its double on use

[celest drift]

I guess yea

[thorny kraken]

so hows the feeling on the assa changes?

[primal burrow]

pin 🙂

I called those changes to baseline abilities, many didn't believe in it

It was obvious they couldn't rise AoE skills, already very strong

[thorny kraken]

ok not bad

[primal burrow]

Unfortunately I switched DH for our roster 😦

[thorny kraken]

just to clarify, our 2set now only gives us a max of 15% increased damage on certain spells correct?

[balmy condor]

they nerfed the old tier set not the new one

[thorny kraken]

o crap misread

damn looking good 😛

[unkempt vine]

no one would belive they buff ST on a spec already doing very good M+ aoe profile

[drowsy bone]

wait, imagine the buff in m+ 😮

[thorny kraken]

ikr

[unkempt vine]

Boomy got same treatment as rogue, somehow they buffed ST dmg

[thorny kraken]

i struggled on ST in m+ at times, this might fix it

[subtle tundra]

no it wont

lol

[red schooner]

Rik ate it once TBF

[zinc frost]

Get ready to continue the struggle

[subtle tundra]

doing tank st getting buffed is still just slightly better than tank

[thorny kraken]

i mean, its better then it was (glass half full ) 😛

[royal lantern]

if you has pacemaker/signet or pacemsker/HoC nothing changes

magnet is just now a option as a 2nd trinket

the "best stuff" is still the best, they just made the other trinkets not 100% ussules

[celest drift]

still fishing for pacemaker sadly, so yeah it's a nice option for now

[subtle tundra]

fishing!?!?!? pog

we fishin' here

i wish i was fishing

[royal lantern]

go do it

fish love you, women fear you

[subtle tundra]

I CANT I HAVE THE WEEKEND FILLED

AND NOT WITH FISHING

FUCKING SHOOT ME

[warm drum]

a tank let me stealth every pack, pulls were huge, timing 13 with big time left god bless restealth tanks

[shy axle]

pacemaker is the delve trinket with strongest stat/worst stat proc?

[rare jackal]

pacemaker comes from m+

[shy axle]

ah i see, floodgate one. did not have the english name in mind

ty

[royal lantern]

pacemaker comes from the heart problems we all old fucks have

[rare jackal]

good point, i might get a heart attack if im being forced back into assa prision

[unkempt vine]

All specs are viable man. Playing a spec you prefer might be and "overall" dps for you !

[rare jackal]

assa cranking while being easier is unfortunately an advantage that's hard to pass up

[summer remnant]

Isn't the Assa skill floor way lower, so when Assa is best it just makes sense to play it

[unkempt vine]

Thats a good point but, if you like sub then sub is also fine. My problem on sub is that for me is harder to CD management in pugs

[rare jackal]

for now i stay on sub
but looking back at ansurek progress, it would have been better to switch off

[unkempt vine]

uff. .. I feel you

[dapper zodiac]

do we have the raidbots sims somewhere?

of the changes

[unkempt vine]

I think whispyr covered it on is videos.

[limber lion]

All the numbers in the pins are from raidbots sims, even if Whispyr doesn't share them

[dapper zodiac]

alright ty guys

do you by chance know if we have to go for some exact threshholds at any of our secondary stats?

[grim jay]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[unkempt vine]

@balmy condor I dont know if you got any vid on it, but whats ur take on the "nostealth" build running around?

[drifting cloud]

the what

[unkempt vine]

I saw a build that doesnt really require you to keep going stealth, and more bleed dmg.

you take left side of ass tree basicly

[drifting cloud]

are you talking about the bleed build? how is that nostealth

[mortal badger]

[unkempt vine]

https://imgur.com/a/5KHkdV0 this one.

[mortal badger]

brotherman what does that have to do with not restealthing

[pliant remnant]

indiscriminate carnage

nostealth

[violet jackal]

???

[grim jay]

if anything you'd rather stealth with the bleed build I imagine ye

but

!restealth

duh

[drifting cloud]

thats just a worse version of the bleed build

[royal lantern]

bro did you ever play sub in the last few years

idk why people still act as if sub is some giga galaxybrain 20000iq spec sometimes, sooooooooooo much stuff go streamlined

[radiant raven]

[golden loom]

Especially with how heavy loaded the damage is to subs cds

[grim jay]

idk why people act like any spec in wow is some giga galaxybrain 20000iq spec

[golden loom]

like you play those correctly and theres not much else

[royal lantern]

ye

wow difficulty is the encounters themself, not what you play

[mortal badger]

only thing you need to learn about sub is not pressing cds on cd

[red schooner]

Gotta bully Ret palas somehow

[static glacier]

I miss shadowdust

unironically better than this current iteration imo

[past marten]

Disagree

[static glacier]

pressing vanish gave DOPAMINE

all ur cds back, ur balling

[royal lantern]

bully them for playing ret like everyone else

[static glacier]

you could do cooked shit with fight timers like on tindral

now ur just 90s

[subtle kiln]

It’s not, it just doesn’t play how majority of dps specs play and people get giga confused trying to unravel the min/max for cd alignment.

[static glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-dogs-crypto-nft-doggo-gif-26536215

[royal lantern]

thats why it got removed in the first place

bigtime adjustable burst window timers can make some big problems

[subtle kiln]

Learn the opener and you’ve got vast majority of the gameplay figured out

[grim jay]

well they only require the player to be breathing

[royal lantern]

(breathing is optional)

[grim jay]

nah current sub is pretty decent

[static glacier]

I was a dust enjoyer, it was cringe to learn but more rewarding than now

I fully understand the hate though

[subtle kiln]

sub cds are still the specs issue. Dust was the easy target to blast unfortunately.

[static glacier]

needing a spread sheet isnt ideal

[subtle kiln]

trickster bandaid fixing the core

[static glacier]

personally I despise holding dances for cd atm

I want to send

[subtle kiln]

I’m curious to see how spec play rate in mythic shifts on reset

[vestal wren]

i would not say cd's are a issue

[vale marten]

i pity people who didnt play tomb sub, greatest iteration in my opinin, when you see those 30 mil DFAs

current is a pale imitation

[vestal wren]

the main problem of subtlety is attention, the dev team does put less emphasize because of the general popularity of the spec. It means things move a lot slower compared to other classes or specs and problems stay not adressed for a long time.

[mint valve]

why is bleed build considered worse at high keys?

[royal lantern]

probs cus it does slightly less ST?

but you play assa, its boss dmg is kinda ass anyway

[zinc frost]

Higher the key means mobs live a touch longer to get better value out of kingsbane, caustic etc.

[subtle kiln]

The CDs are ass to play on deathstalker. The base spec still has what I’d call significant issues with CDR and reliance on skyfury.

[royal lantern]

tbf

rogue hero talents are just atrocious in how bad they are

and its kinda insane that they didnt saw any form of mechanical change at all yet

[somber fractal]

Watched the new trinket tuning video. Why is eye of kezan not in any of the top results? I have a heroic pacemaker and eye. Eye is simming 15k ahead of pacemaker on 5 min fights and pulls even further ahead the longer the fight

[subtle kiln]

Yes but for sub DS is you playing the base spec. Trickster fixes the CDR. Like I said it bandaids part of the core issues.

base sub / DS is misery

[royal lantern]

eye is good, but needs long fights

and its also really bad in m+ cus, again, needs long fights

[subtle kiln]

12.0 rogue will get hero talents looked at.

[royal lantern]

next expansion launches in a couple months->rogue finally gets its current expansion feature updated to be on the same level as everyone else->gets ignored for the next one because "rogue just got a patch"

the circle repeats

[subtle kiln]

[somber fractal]

The whispyr video is running 5 min sims. Eye is still simming higher at 5 mins for me

[vestal wren]

^ this

[subtle kiln]

@vestal wren is there a spell override anywhere or are spell data changes on ptr raidbots?

[vestal wren]

I hope i made no mistake, but:```yaml
#Spec Aura
override.spell_data=effect.179721.base_value=7
override.spell_data=effect.191052.base_value=7
#Mutilate
override.spell_data=effect.99543.ap_coefficient=1.036
override.spell_data=effect.99544.ap_coefficient=1.036
#Ambush
override.spell_data=effect.1019461.ap_coefficient=2.8

[fallen fable]

changes live in sim apl? or it will be on reset?

[vestal wren]

currently updating the sheet, so will soon have it on the sheet

[subtle kiln]

are all the trinkets in the sub sim?

[vestal wren]

give us a bit of time

apl changes need testing, and whispyr does most of the testing. It is NA time currently so he is in bed.

the apl changes will come before reset, which is when it starts to matter

[subtle kiln]

6am is gamer timer

[red schooner]

Whispyr doesn't sleep

[subtle kiln]

slam those monsters

And get to work

[vestal wren]

true

[hearty seal]

how many cycles have happened already? DF 10.2 -> TWW has shaped up that way certainly, but I'm not sure about the rest

[subtle kiln]

Rogue is on its own independent dev cycle.

[hearty seal]

huh

[hoary remnant]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm vessel]

So what does the current tuning patch mean for us? Is sin now the top dog across the board between all rogue specs?

[balmy condor]

yeh that's correct but there's technically 2 more niche ones for the aura and the actual raw ambush that gets used from stealth, the ambush you're buffing is the ambush from blindside, and then there's also the nerf to the old set, so the full set:

override.spell_data=effect.99544.ap_coefficient=1.036
override.spell_data=effect.3612.ap_coefficient=2.8
override.spell_data=effect.1114700.ap_coefficient=2.8
override.spell_data=effect.179721.base_value=7
override.spell_data=effect.191052.base_value=7
override.spell_data=effect.261017.base_value=7
override.spell_data=effect.261018.base_value=7
override.spell_data=spell.458475.max_stack=5```

[subtle kiln]

If you’re going by sims I’m going to assume outlaw still top. still need to happen

[hearty seal]

tbh I've seen some weird stuff on wclogs for M+
there's an outlaw 100% who does like
600-1000k more damage than the next best log

[subtle kiln]

play what makes ya happy

[warm vessel]

Yeah but outlaw has that unfortunate situation of 1 mechanic that gives you 2sec of downtime kills your DPS

[subtle kiln]

nah

Outlaw has the unfortunate ability of killing spree every 12-15 seconds

[warm vessel]

TBF I find all rogue specs pretty good so they all make me happy. Guess we switch around based on fight of numbers are still roughly equal

[subtle kiln]

downtime isn’t exactly an issue this tier

[warm vessel]

Although I am curious to see this new m+ build for sin that takes blindside

[hearty seal]

am doing the stupid and taking it on my crab build tbh

[somber fractal]

Are the bloodmallet values updated with the new tuning?

[soft surge]

just watched whispyur video and almost coomed when he said we can soon use vanish re apply death stalkers mark

like as utility

[royal lantern]

srsly, where does this "vanish as cd is bad" thing comes from

we did that in frking TBC lol

[soft surge]

losing deathstalkers mark rarely happens but when it does its so tilting

i just like theres a safty net

[royal lantern]

yeha but thats a deathstalker problem, not a vanish problem

[soft surge]

a problerm we are stuck with till next expac

[royal lantern]

make something else apply the mark and thats it

[sharp mountain]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[grand trail]

is the trinket things in sims now?

kinda sad that i left mythic pacemaker in vault now 😄

[final star]

yeah they are hotfixes

[royal lantern]

why did you leave a mythic dungeon trinket in vault lol

[subtle kiln]

that’s a choice

[soft surge]

[grand trail]

well it wasnt better than heroic kezan

[soft surge]

it was pretty bis before buffs

[royal lantern]

it was/is lol

[grand trail]

nope

[subtle kiln]

[royal lantern]

kezan is literally a 1trick trinket, good in longer raid fights and outside of that kinda meh

[turbid harbor]

It’ll be fully stacked for the important parts of hard mythic fights

[royal lantern]

if anything, kezan gets worse over time as killtimers get shorter

[grand trail]

yes

[turbid harbor]

Kezan is still insane for mythic raiding

[onyx linden]

Anyone have a list of all the damage modifiers for envenom? I was trying to count it up for fun since with everything up it scales from a little like 500k hit at 5cps to 15mil+ crits.
So far I have:
Mastery: ~100ish% with potion, trinket, tea? Haven't actually checked this with everything up.
Shiv: 30%
Amp poison: 35%
Darkest Night: 60%
Lingering: 30%
Set max: 45%
Zoldyck: 30%
Vers: ~5-10%
Rapid Injection: 20%
SuperCharge: Not sure on the 3 extra cps but like 20ish%?
Crit: 100.75%
Not sure if I missed anything, or if all these bonuses are additive/multiplicative. But its kinda crazy how many things buff it.

[soft surge]

i did minimum 8 dungeons every week last season for a myth track dawn breaker trinket

never got it in vault

u may never have a chance at a dungon mythic track trinket

[golden loom]

Rapid injection for 20% with 2 envenom stacks

[onyx linden]

ah shit yeah

[golden loom]

But lethal dose does not boost envenom damage

[onyx linden]

oh no?

sad

guess its not a weapon poison yeah

I just read poison

[spring socket]

will wowhead get updated with the talent chages that was posted on yt earlier ?

[unkempt vine]

Yeah seaforium is insane. I have kezan, and a House of cards Hero track.. Still didnt got Seaforium but simming so higher than kezan on m+

[golden loom]

well kezan is useless in m+

[subtle kiln]

Why? The decay is slow enough you should be able to keep it going?

[golden loom]

Doesnt it decay super fast outside of combat

[subtle kiln]

No

[winged sun]

are sin buffs up yet

?

[golden loom]

on reset

[onyx linden]

Its like 1 stack a second or something

waiting for swampface to spawn, gg

[subtle kiln]

Overrides to sim. #assassination message

[faint path]

Guys I wanna play another class tbh like assas rogue but with more single insane aoe etc etc what u think about unh dk ?

[unkempt vine]

yeah you can play it, but are you pushing really high keys? if so, yeah the "meta" applys, just follow the "tiers"

[subtle kiln]

so you want meta.

[faint path]

I just want high damage in keys tbh thats make me enjoy from game 😄

[unkempt vine]

for people not pushing title or really high keys, doesnt really matter , tunning of classes are balanaced all around you can play w/e

well Assa should be doing that ^^

[subtle kiln]

Wait abd see how tuning changes everyone and reroll after next week

[faint path]

ye assas is already so gooood but for single target its so boring tbh and compared to other classes I'm not doing good single damage

[unkempt vine]

next week 5% ST buff. should be alright

[faint path]

Ye ye I got already did everything on my rogue this week just spending my time with unh atm 😄

[unkempt vine]

next week gona be Walking deads and chickens everywere X)

[gaunt tree]

do u guys believe Sin will have a slight advantage compared to Sub now raid and M+ wise?

[lusty kraken]

assa will probably be better than sub in raid

in m+ it will do more aoe but less ST than sub

[gaunt tree]

[spring socket]

Bleed b uild does good dmg in aoe

[pearl widget]

hello everyone! for house of cards trinket do we allign it with deathmark , send it on cd ? whats the case ? thank you!

[faint path]

Tbh assas rogue with bleed build doing insane daamages every fucking single pack but at single target at least for me I'm doing so low damage compared to other classes. I hope that buff is gonna affect a little bit

[shy axle]

i prefer hybrid over bleed

[faint path]

Hows ur overall in keys with hybrid?

[red schooner]

Just align it with deathmark

[shy axle]

@faint path if everything goes without deaths/fuckups and depending on which dungeon between 3 to 3,6 was my best overall 10/11

[hexed frost]

Not when you don't have vanish up, affix spawns and tank decides to chainpull the next pack 🤣🤣🤣

[faint path]

LITERALLY

[hexed frost]

The bleed build counts a lot on IC, shrouded and improved garrote uptime

[faint path]

FUCK those tanks dude they can't even wait 1 second before boss

because of affix

[vestal wren]

perfect, thanks. it includes the old 2p nerf too, nice

[balmy condor]

Yeh and there two extra effects on the aura are for pet modifiers which idk how they exactly work but I’m suspicious about them for things like sigil of algari or whatever that summons minions

Think it might impact that

So better to change and it does nothing versus missing it idk

[solemn echo]

It's extra egregious when the mobs are at like 2%

[vestal wren]

👍

[solemn echo]

Had a tank pull priory 3 mobs at a time doing this I wanted to rope

[balmy condor]

Yeah chain pulling is giga gains for your dps

The tank mongo pulling mobs when the last pack has 1% hp is just braindead tanking

That shit is aids for everyone in the party

[golden loom]

gotta do some kidney shot action to keep a mob in place to finish it off and get re-stealth

[balmy condor]

Healer can’t drink, ranged is stuck between finishing the mobs off or letting them die to dots or not and better just kill them I guess meanwhile no one is actually doing damage to the new mobs and the healer has to split the attention

Just a fucking headache

Like chain pulling when there’s shitters left in the pack at like 40% cause a big important caster got blown the fuck up

We love that

That’s peak

Priory you pull a Paladin and it dies cause everyone CDs it and you pull the next pack of paladins, that shit makes me rock hard

But so many shit tanks just don’t know how to tank

[high walrus]

what metric does archon use for the "tierlist", thought assa and sub were roughly the same in m+

[grand trail]

this tunning come one week late 😄

[subtle kiln]

Our arms warrior started tanking keys this season. We run boomie, hunter, rogue and priest. Most fun I’ve had in keys in a long ass time. Getting the routes sorted etc.

Then I pug a key and want to unalive.

[hardy crypt]

it takes the average score of top x% players on each spec, i think

or a flat number

so all that means is that people push higher keys on average with sub than they do on sin/outlaw

[lethal slate]

which to take?

[hardy crypt]

when does the spec tuning go live?

next reset?

[high walrus]

pacemaker to flex getting it

[hardy crypt]

lmao

[high walrus]

28 priory runs deep on my protwar for the tank trinket, got so sick of it I'm back on my rogue

[lethal slate]

[vestal wren]

weekly reset is tuning time

[hardy crypt]

thanks ^^

[high walrus]

time to go dry on pacemaker instead

[sharp mountain]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[hardy crypt]

not using clear the witnesses on raid is going to feel so off

can't wait to use it like 99% of the time during the first week or so because of muscle memory

[royal lantern]

i had a tank that actually did that last run

really good, did great chain pulls

its insane how much faster a run goes when the tank is part of he 0,5% of tank players that actally plays the game

[lavish wing]

I missed the explanation why we dont use clear the witness?

[hearty reef]

Whuspyr i dont like vicious venoms

[finite cliff]

Hi! i have a question about sim, when i sim without picking a talent tree, is it then using the "active" one?

[acoustic roost]

Because mutilate big dam

[lavish wing]

so we consider it waste of gcd/energy in comparison to using muti?

[grand trail]

damn assa will be really back thats insane

i was starting enjyoing my pvp trinket gameplay

[fast mural]

rly back wdym

we are gonna be middle of the pack

[grand trail]

well but still best rogue spec

[fast mural]

maybe equal

sub does a lot of dmg and has better fights on raid

[grand trail]

idk i quickly check all boses

and only boss which assa is like behind is stixx

and that will be like even after tunning

[fast mural]

so in RIk

Sin is better you mean ?

[grand trail]

in rik its only slihlty worse

will be better with tunning

[lavish wing]

guys I also have a few questions about dry shiv.
Do we still go with 2 shivs under deathmark-kingsbane and wait for the cd to come back before the end of Lingering or we go with the more relaxed version of one shiv for kb and other for lingering? is the relaxed option a big dps loss?

[golden loom]

what? arent the 2 things you wrote the same

[grand trail]

yeah

[golden loom]

you shiv twice like normal during deathmark yes and then you shiv during lingering and once during single kingsbane

[lavish wing]

i meant one shif for dm-kb and the other for lingering as the relaxed option, because sometimes it feels tight to get Darkest Night

[grand trail]

it line up very nicely dont need to think much about it

[lavish wing]

probably me still not having the best feel and start to panic 😄

[golden loom]

Not only would it grief damage to not shiv twice during deathmark, you would also just perma sit on 1 charge of shiv?

[hoary remnant]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[golden loom]

but I mean also if you for some reason dont get it to allign you just double shiv for kingsbane

[lavish wing]

alright

tnx for the clarification

[onyx coyote]

If you use the simc addon it uses whtever you are using when you copy and paste it. If you just look up your character onraidbots I beleive it uses whatever the armory last remembers you using.

[hoary remnant]

why is in fuu new assa sims improved garrote still in?

[hexed frost]

When you have a tempest shaman asking the tank to chain pull and an assa rogue asking the tank to wait for restealth

A match made in heaven

Or hell

[fallen fable]

why is even more OP after Sin buffs?

[hexed frost]

What is more OP?

[fallen fable]

Outlaw sorry

xd

[grand trail]

for some reason, my ass rogue wnna keep versa/mastery neck 😄

damn whats happening

[spice surge]

turns out stats dont matter

[golden loom]

Raidbots update when changes go live pretty sure

[grand trail]

time to do old good stats sim

[lavish wing]

bring back stat weight 😄

[golden loom]

I mean why wouldnt vers/mastery be good

[lavish wing]

https://tenor.com/view/law-smile-ocd-creep-scold-gif-8128981

[grand trail]

idk thoughj crit or haste would beat vers:)

onneck

[balmy condor]

[lavish wing]

oh no, I awakened him

[balmy condor]

I been here

[grand trail]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[balmy condor]

I just decided to chime in when I read that

[balmy condor]

Dear god

He actually did it

He simmed the weights

[split willow]

Still too imbalanced for me

[grand trail]

what can you do when i run 15m irri sims for 3k gains 😄

[lavish wing]

Spirit where

[balmy condor]

Yah I mean those sims for 3k are more accurate than the stat weight sims but whatever floats your boat I guess

[grand trail]

literary nothing matter so everything is bis

[balmy condor]

I love numbers as well

[lavish wing]

so mastery bad, gotcha

[balmy condor]

I just can’t do anything with stat weight numbers

So I don’t

[hearty reef]

I dont like vicious venoms

[balmy condor]

Who asked

[hearty reef]

It's a group chat

[balmy condor]

True

[golden loom]

I like vv

[balmy condor]

I also like vv

I didn’t sign up to play assa because I wanted to be gcd capped

I signed up knowing damn well it’s not gcd capped

That’s what I like

[grand trail]

just go nice and slow

enjoy the view

[golden loom]

Also makes my favorite talent blindside feel even better

[balmy condor]

True

[dawn seal]

is ambush and multilate damage buff

okay

or are we hyped for %3 all damage

[balmy condor]

I just think the damage breakdown is much healthier with vv

[manic quartz]

Are sims updated?

[dawn seal]

whats vv vicous venting

[lavish wing]

volkswagen

[balmy condor]

Trinkets yes, tuning no

Raidbots updates with the game

Tuning is not in the game

[grand trail]

cant bealived i passed on magnet ysterday

[balmy condor]

So it’s not in raidbots

[grand trail]

mythic magnets gamers

[lavish wing]

for assa only or for all

[golden loom]

One thing that I kinda dislike is Kingsbane getting more RNG when dropping MA

[spice surge]

MA being locked behind imp garrote

[balmy condor]

Is there tuning that is live in the game right now

[grand trail]

not playing on use trinket option too apparently hehe

[lavish wing]

i meant trinkets

[balmy condor]

Trinkets are hotfix buffs

Those are in the game

[golden loom]

HOLY 3 DAMAGE

[balmy condor]

So they are in the sims

[grand trail]

its crazy

[golden loom]

MAKE SURE TO USE 2 PASSIVE TRINKETS AND THIS FOR INSANE DPS

[hearty reef]

Bogling

[grand trail]

i change sim lenght to 6min that will teach this pacemaker a leasson

yeah no on use trinkets in my house

[primal burrow]

Congratz you're now a DH

[lavish wing]

i like how 658 pvp trink says "F you and your trinket tuning"

tho im still simming as sub

[balmy condor]

PvP trink is giga shit for us

It’s basically a 658 signet/house of cards but terrible

Think it’s a full 15-20 ilvl lower

Like 660 PvP is 640 signet

1 min on use is so awful

[golden loom]

If only kingsbane was mega dam

[grand trail]

i dont get how pacemaker with kezan is about even with signet with kezan/pace

[balmy condor]

Realistically kb is like 8% atm in single target which is pretty reasonable

[spice surge]

The pvp trinket is kinda bad on sub too

[dawn seal]

whispyr do u run master asssassin on 5th boss

[spice surge]

Its just that there are no good trinkets

[balmy condor]

What’s your crit/mast

[grand trail]

like tihs

[balmy condor]

I run whatever the single target build is

[royal lantern]

stats, not %

[balmy condor]

Okay this means nothing to me

The rating

[grand trail]

9.2k crit 21,5k mastery

[balmy condor]

Hm

Yeh dunno

Gg pacemaker op I guess

[grand trail]

i guees

i have it mythic inv ault 😄

[golden loom]

Yeah I guess its not bad, my 3 sprocket kills has it at 9,3%, 9,6% and 9,83%

[grand trail]

left it there

[manic quartz]

got mythic peacemaker from first vault

[grand trail]

i got kezan

basically kezan better than aynthiung on progg

[manic quartz]

hc version right?

[grand trail]

ye

it will fall off as season progres

[manic quartz]

our hc loot has been absolute crap

[golden loom]

bro what was my KB on this kill

[grand trail]

we got 0 hoc 0 kezasn 0 rings from hc so far

[manic quartz]

same

[dawn seal]

on ur youtube video on ur sims does this include the buffs we have

idk how sims get updated

[balmy condor]

Yes or else the video would be pointless

[dawn seal]

thats true

[balmy condor]

The sims are manually overridden for the buffs

[nova aspen]

pookie video out

[grand trail]

i dont mind ass at all

but man

i feel like its always like that 😄

[lavish wing]

this makes me depressive

I used Nightly sim

[golden loom]

what is that

is that an item in the game?

[lavish wing]

its crafted gear for wethered crests

[royal lantern]

its Spelunkers Leather Bands with 1090 Avoidance and Elemental Focusing Lens

[lavish wing]

yea, its sub gear i just switched to assa to sim trinkets

[cedar elm]

assa alive sub deadge

rejoice

sub so lame in m+

[golden loom]

didnt know you could craft 629 gear

[royal lantern]

crafting with no spark is 629 ye

[lavish wing]

yea, it doesnt require spark

basically free gear with all the crests we have

[balmy condor]

Nightly isn’t updated I think

Maybe at this point it is

But you probably should just get in the habit of like

Never simming anything other than latest

[lavish wing]

gonna try this instant, sir

[main hemlock]

is house of cards bis for assa?

or are there better trinkets

[balmy condor]

House of cards or signet

You pick one of those for the first slot

And then whatever else for slot 2

[zinc vale]

Hi bois , how much buff is new sin rogue tuning ?

[main hemlock]

is signet myth better than house of cards hc?

[zinc vale]

for ST

[balmy condor]

Hi sotypical, read pins

[balmy condor]

Yes

[zinc vale]

tyty

[lavish wing]

changed sim to latest and its the same... gonna be a badge gamer till s3 i guess 😄

tho i dont mind, i bled for it

went pvp

[balmy condor]

Maybe nightly updated already

I thought it was 7am pacific

But maybe it’s 2am

Regardless there’s no reason to not use latest so it’s whatever

Better than weekly though

People who sim on weekly scare me

It’ll be like a Sunday afternoon
“Why my sim not saying X? Isn’t buffffff???”

And then it’s a weekly sim that’s using data from Monday morning

And he’s just been not simming a buff all week

Shits crazy

[indigo mulch]

Does simc keep a changelog or something for nightly?

[balmy condor]

Latest/Nightly/weekly isn’t a changelog really or even a simc thing

It’s purely when a raidbots thing for when the simc version was built

[indigo mulch]

Ah

[balmy condor]

Weekly is every Monday morning, nightly every morning, and latest fetches updates if it sees any

[nova aspen]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[indigo mulch]

Fair, I was just curious if there was like a changelog for all the changes that's being added/removed.

[ocean ore]

this ass buff will make the class good for single in m+ as well?

[indigo mulch]

Don't think so, but atleast it won't be as bad. 😄

I still think assa is pretty good in m+ even before the buffs

[gleaming geyser]

5% in pure ST talents is not going to suddenly make bad ST damage in M+ good no

But assassination is still a solid pick overall

[indigo mulch]

It only really matters in really high keys that 99% of people will never do. For your weekly 10 it's good enough 😄

[lavish wing]

but thats not how ppl think, ppl wanna MDI meta even for m0

[patent elk]

What are your predictions for m+ meta now, boomie/vdh/disc seem to be in lockdown now

But the last 2

[lean plover]

fire mage i guess

[lavish wing]

dk?

[granite sentinel]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spice spire]

Instructions unclear meta bitch instead

[royal lantern]

i wonder if people that follow the "MDI meta" ever watched the MDI even once in their life

or just saw a reddit rant post about "every team in the MDI is the same 5 classes!!!!" and then copy it

[strong wing]

Which brann are you guys using for t11 delves? Or should i just queue delves since soloing them as rogue is impossible

[onyx crane]

healer

just sip that juice

[golden loom]

Healer and its very doable

[strong wing]

And which curios kings?

[onyx crane]

idk I like the robo raptors and the clone ability

[strange sleet]

Does not really matter I think. You just want the heals

also you swap talents mid delve

you can*

I mean yours, not bran's

[thorn fjord]

See guys?

All we needed was for me to swap to sub fully to get sin buffs

Christmas in March

You’re welcome 😉

[onyx crane]

hmm if I knew the trinkets would get buffed I would have rolled need on the magnet last night's hc raid

ah well

champion pacemaker it is then

[fast mural]

do you send magnet on full stacks?

[onyx crane]

I wish blizz made direct dmg trinkets better it is more fun to have bit of flair rather than just stat stick procs

I miss my plaguefall ooze army

[tawdry root]

Hi I was listening to whispyr's yap sesh and read the pin but just want to confirm I understood. In ST we do not FoK for clear the witnesses at all since mut is now more damage? Unless you're at 6 CP where either is fine

[onyx crane]

and my BFA council spinny clone trinket

bfa I men WoD

[strange sleet]

Regarding the tunning for next week:

Changes are positive, but I still feel the problem with m+ ST is the absolute shitty gameplay we have. The fact that you can pool to a max of 150 energy or you lose DPS because of Sanguine Blades, and If you want to use Tea for Kingsbane or wathever, then you have 120 energy to play with, which feels pretty bad, or "static". Like this week's affix, when she pops in a boss I feel kinda useless: she is supposed to be killed fast but what am I supposed to do? I feel it's not very flexible at all, and that feels pretty bad.

[onyx crane]

rupture and splatter and hope the others do their job :3

I'll play BM if I wanna target swap all over the playfield

[hexed frost]

How's assa in keys after the buffs? ST still dogshit or tolerable now?

[strange sleet]

I mean, you can swap all over the battlefield in pulls, because you have infinite energy. Except you can't because of Deathstalker Mark. But at least you actually can swap

[strange sleet]

It's 5%

[hexed frost]

So catshit, I guess?

[autumn magnet]

I play Tank Brann, he will live long enough that I kill stuff, and if not I either kill during evasion, revive Brann during Evasion, or kite until he auto rezzes

Last Season I used Heal Brann, but it still required very good usage of defensives and tracking the heal pots on ground, now with tank I find it pretty comfy

[thick juniper]

Which curio you use??

[autumn magnet]

The one with kaja cola, so I get buffs (im very geared, so it feels worth it to buff myself more) and the one that makes him stronger but spawns a robot walking at him

[strange sleet]

the robot one is horrible imo

I hate it

[autumn magnet]

I personally dont care if hes stunned or not, all he has to do is tank white hits for long enough so i kill stuff

[thick juniper]

Tyty

[broken chasm]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dZGV9ESPoA9SPhp4xLt2p2

why does authority depths look better than radiant power?

[strange sleet]

it's st enchant

[haughty flicker]

because it is better in st

[pulsar ice]

are the buffs live?

[autumn magnet]

I have a genuine question, really no evil intent:
I see in reddit comments and the discords complaints about assa ST, that we dont have our own dev bla bla;

And I genuinely wonder what people expect? I feel like the spec is super good atm. Sure u can like deathmark gameplay or not, but thats design, not balance.

In Raid we are middle of the pack, in pug logs we are upper half.

What do people wish for, is it just the desire „my spec should be op“?

Imagine in m+: we keep our AMAZING aoe, we keep our utility, ccs, shroud, iron wire or dmg etc.,; and now we get excellent ST on top.

Id just call that OP?

[golden loom]

Spec is good and fun and nice

people will always find something

[autumn magnet]

MW needs big HPS, cos dogshit raidbuff. Classes should have strenghts and weaknessss, how is it fun if we are op at EVERYTHING?

[lean plover]

i would like for rogues to be best at everything forever

[spice spire]

I found us

[golden loom]

rizzler

[spice spire]

That’s my middle name

[strange sleet]

Excellent ST is too much to say for a 5% buff xD. And I do like the spec, that's why I play it. But it just feels bad in specific situations. I've never complained about balance, just the gameplay loop in ST, specifically with M+ talents.

I think conceptually Assa is super good. Just like SP is.

[autumn magnet]

Yee, i dont mean the 5% buff is excellent ST, it was meant as a „imagine if…“

[spice spire]

Specs shouldn’t be excelling at both at once

Like enhance last season

[autumn magnet]

I have to admit, energy pooling feels questionable, but in the end it is okay, and somewhat skillful to find a middleground between refreshing envenoms and having all dots refreshed before CDs and STILL pooling

[winged sun]

@spice spire is fatebound sin viable now

or

[autumn magnet]

But i dont think we have a problem or smt, its not like we do tank dmg on ST, and i finish a lot of runs as top dps

[winged sun]

in m+

[golden loom]

fatebound

that shit is probably 200% behind in aoe

[lean plover]

Isnt that outlaw only?

[winged sun]

i want trickster sin

spatter + nimble flurry

trick ur way into that hero talent

[static glacier]

envenom de grace

[spice spire]

No

Fundamentally unless specific hero tuning is adjusted

Fatebound will never be competitive

[static glacier]

idk about that mr quake

[wicked zodiac]

guys with buff sin is gonna be better than sub:

[static glacier]

there's class changes that could benefit fatebound more than ds

unlikely as heck though

[spice spire]

For m+?

[strange sleet]

well, I've been finishing like 99'9% of my runs as top DPS in the whole xpansion. But that's what happens when you play with randoms. It's super hard to find rly good players, unless you do rly high keys I guess.

But again, my problem with the spec it's not the ST dmg (a little bit yes, because I do almost the same DPS with my old tier 630 voidweaver SP that has 645 weapon. Assa rogue is 654 with 678 weapon and 2+2 tier). It's the fact it's not flexible at all in certain situations, and I dislike that.

[static glacier]

potentially but even less likely

[spice spire]

Yeah zeross doesn’t talk about raid mf an m+ Andy

St it’s still competitive

[static glacier]

I played all of first week 11.0

as fatebound

still topped overall but yeah it is worse

[spice spire]

[static glacier]

issue is lack of crit chance on FoK compared to ds

[onyx crane]

this game is gonna let me play with 2pc for a while it seems

[static glacier]

they need to really look at the aoe nodes on fatebound

compared to ds

it's not remotely close

[autumn magnet]

I was referring to 3k+ players, or the motherlode 13 i timed, or the 11 rookery we almost timed week1; doesn’t matter, I think we can agree that assa in keys does not have a dmg problem.

The flexibility I can somewhat understand, although the talent tree has way more flexibility IMO than other classes.

And last but not least: I just replied to you and used it as a hook to finally get this question out, I was asking myself for some time already what people want;

I did not mean to specifically talk about you being wrong or whatever, i just wanted community opinions / perceptions

[strange sleet]

Ye it's ok. Just expressing oppinions over here. Everyone will have their own, np

[autumn magnet]

But regarding the other replies, the people whining on reddit just seem to be whiners, and a lot of ppl dont think we should be good at everything

[strange sleet]

I mean, honestly this patch feels pretty good in general. I think everything it's kinda balanced

They are doing a good job

[spice spire]

I agree with the latter bit but I think the ST is (or was) a tad abysmal, so any buff to it without hitting our aoe (ie. Buffing envenom) is a good thing. 3% seems like a lot but maybe with 4p it’s just a hair lower than they want

3% on everything*

I like the mutilate and ambush buffs a bit actually

[static glacier]

lowkey we kinda do, but our prio dmg / aoe is overtuned af

[lavish wing]

but then u look at ele shammy buffs and be like wtf 😄

[strange sleet]

I would have gone for energy reduction isntead of buffing dmg probably

[hexed frost]

Have you played with a windwalker or mage? Or even a lock?

[hexed frost]

Windwalker and mage this season.

Or even spriest and lock

[cinder bone]

just ran a top 11 with an spriest and was surprised how much damage he did

[strange python]

Hi! There's a lof of combo point skills, would slice and dice be really needed at the start of fighting?

[cinder bone]

you never need to cast slice n dice

[autumn magnet]

Ok, I should not have written about me being top dps. Lets forgot the anecdotes, lets make arguments

[strange python]

Why? It improves attack speed.

[autumn magnet]

Do you think we have a dmg problem in keys?

[tawdry root]

There's a talent that casts slice and dice every time you envenom

[cinder bone]

it auto casts when you envenom

[strange python]

Ooh! Do you know when? And does it automatically remove combo points?

[cinder bone]

I think rogue brings a ton of value to keys especially in pugs. Lots of good shroud skips imo this season too

[tawdry root]

It refreshes every time you envenom, so you don't need to even think about slice and dice, I would just remove it from your action bars

[strange python]

Gosh, rogues take a while to get used to lol

[hexed frost]

On ST, yes.

Monks, locks, spriest and mages can pull big numbers in AoE (if not better than assa) AND faceroll assa on bosses at similar ilevel

[dapper cradle]

Rogue value this season

[strange python]

When you say envenon, does that mean every time my weapon posions the target?

[hexed frost]

It's your main finisher my man.

Envenom

[tawdry root]

Envenom is assassination's main finisher spell (finisher = uses up combo points)

[strange python]

I must not have it then lol

yet

[cinder bone]

Iron wire will carry any pug group of players that know their rotation up to 13s. Iron wire alone brings more utility to pugs than most classes

[tawdry root]

Ah are you still leveling? Lol level 80 gameplay is completely different, i would ignore anything on disc until you're 80 and have all hero talents

[shy creek]

^

[stark halo]

Are we back guys?

[shy creek]

We're dead ont he floor

Swap to outlaw immediately

WCL says they're best

[stark halo]

Can I finally drop sub

[dapper cradle]

Iron wire in a ppal + vdh meta

[stark halo]

Does the great regearing begin?

[hexed frost]

My sub can pull 2-3M DPS on boss fights.

And 7-8M dps on medium sized trash pulls WITH only funneling.

Furthermore, tank can keep chainpulling and it will make my dps go up instead

[golden loom]

great re-gearing when the season is 3 weeks old

[strange python]

Okay! Would i wanna still cast SAD til i get envenom tho?

[spice spire]

WW capped. Mage is the favorite child

[shy creek]

More seriously, we're still behind sub in ST , but our AoE is stronger and our ST got buffed, so if you wanna play assa go for it

[shy creek]

What is SAD?

[strange python]

Slice and dice

[tawdry root]

if you want, mobs die so quickly while leveling anyway that it doesn't totally matter

[strange python]

Talking about dungeons

[robust axle]

Idk if my sims are broken or not - But even tho I only have 2200 haste, sims still doesnt want me to put on haste gear > vers gear, I though Assa wanted haste more no? I have like 9k Vers

[shy creek]

Hmmm is cut to the chase baseline or is it a talent idek

[strange sleet]

9k vers?

[golden loom]

lvl 20 for cut to the chase

[strange sleet]

wtf

[robust axle]

Started out as Sub