assassination

[last skiff]

The nerf 2p season 1 than buffing new set??????????????????????????

[placid adder]

knew i vendored this thing

[polar sleet]

They should buff the s2 set aswell

[dawn heath]

why are they aura buffing sin

clueless

we're like the most broken aoe spec ingame already

we only need buffs to st

tbh might need aoe nerfs even

[grave trail]

are we getting buffed 83%?

[mortal radish]

yes

[grave trail]

[celest helm]

did you even read the notes lol, they buffed ambush and mutilate, the 3% aura does effectively nothing dont overthink that, these are by all means mostly ST buffs and will make zero noticeable changes for AOE, we will still be overlooked for mage boomkin and dk

[runic hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[dawn heath]

ye i mean thats a great effort but buffing mutilate does nothing

it does no damage

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-explosion-gif-7138394752046712707

[solar wyvern]

Is 40% mut enough to justify it over fok in 2 target tho

Surely

[dawn heath]

probably

[haughty flicker]

mr whippet is doing his magic number thingy

[lethal arrow]

Are we S tier yet

[static glacier]

I called it

[red schooner]

A tier

sub still S tier

[runic hinge]

Depends on your abbreviation

[red schooner]

Outlaw, O tier

[lethal arrow]

I'll take it

[hallow rose]

Time to play viscous venoms and completely ignore our clear the witness hero talent

[lethal arrow]

Outlaw exploit tier

[runic hinge]

What if it’s S tier sin

[red schooner]

shit you may be right

[runic hinge]

Energy cost is wack

[hearty reef]

when the tempest

is

crimson

[lethal arrow]

I think they should've buffed envenom by 40% too

🙂

It's not criting hard enough tbh

[red schooner]

ye i only got an 11.5mil crit on sprocket last raid

pls buff

[fringe crow]

hi was wondering can i macro the magnet trinket with deathmark or will it not get the buff from lingering darkness if they cast same time ? also im assuming i only want to cast it at max stacks right ? when raidbots is updated with the hotfixes will the APL know to cast it in the lingering darkness window ?

[mortal radish]

should be 20 mil

[red schooner]

a man can dream

[runic hinge]

Cast it during your lingering window after dm wears off

[lethal arrow]

Should be at 35m

[grave trail]

is the mut buff 43% since 3% aura or that not how math work

[peak lake]

😄

[lethal arrow]

Anything shy of 100m is too weak

[west crown]

multiplicative not additive

[red schooner]

should one shot the boss and make my raid leader say i did a good job

[grave trail]

so 40% times 3?

[runic hinge]

@storm forum shadow nerfs and assa buffs. We’re so back

[west crown]

1.03 but the same idea

[dreamy rover]

I NEED WHISPYR'S TAKE

[blazing pumice]

is shadow really busted in raids? mine does no damage in m+

[red schooner]

he's cooking

let him cook

the soup isn't ready yet

[dreamy rover]

I'll wait!

[grave trail]

sub might be double on use now kinda cring

[peak lake]

i guess its around 5-6 % in pure st

[hearty reef]

pins

[quiet junco]

So what trinkets everyone like vs bis? Mythic plus wise? Anything feel really good even if it's a lil weaker

[red schooner]

bee trinket, just so i can ride a bee

[fringe crow]

thx

[red schooner]

sometimes you have to enjoy the simple things in life

[frosty cedar]

its prolly like 4.8% cause no melee swing buff but maybe with mut talents its better slightly

[polar sleet]

Need to buff us like 15% ST

[dreamy rover]

what?

[fringe crow]

i feel like we gonna be double use house and magnet one during deathmmark and the other after it

[grave trail]

trinkets

and milkman is right now we might be double too lol

[storm forum]

I'm so cooked

[keen spruce]

[storm forum]

(I'm going to get funneled so much gear on Sunday)

[onyx coyote]

blizz just posted they are nerfing our 2 set from last tier

[dreamy rover]

sub is not going to become double on use

insane

take

[stone eagle]

are we better than sub? lol

on ST i mean

with those buffs

[desert crest]

Yeah how much does our st in m+ change with the mutilate and ambush

maybe now the bleed build will do good st

[stone eagle]

i think is like 5% on ST

[grave trail]

unless i misread i guess fuu is insane

[haughty flicker]

whispyr is doing magic number things

[dreamy rover]

what the fuck

[native phoenix]

what happened

[spice surge]

Direct damage is not the same as on-use

[grave trail]

lol

what is direct dmg then

[wanton nest]

A direct dmg was alrdy good for sub

[blazing pumice]

non-stat trinkets

[lavish brook]

Are we back?

[blazing pumice]

ones that blast the target for 1 trillion fire damage

[turbid lion]

instead of on use its prob the bee trinket

[wanton nest]

Thug hotline was simming close to eye of kezan

[turbid lion]

thats what that means

[wanton nest]

Before buff

[grave trail]

but isnt the best direct dmg active? well i guess the darkflame cleft one is good now

[ebon steppe]

thats what that means

Unless that wasn't what that means

[scenic nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/keannu-reeves-john-wick-back-i-am-thinking-iphonedo-gif-12713477

[ebon steppe]

but thats what that means imo

[grave trail]

guess well see after sims

[storm forum]

I just smashed my TV in front of 30 guests at my party because of this nerf. My wife just took our crying kids and said they’re all spending the week at a hotel. This game has ruined my life and my party. I can’t handle this anymore. Goodbye Disc Priest. I am rebuilding my Sin Rogue.

[balmy condor]

I'm continuing to update the pins btw every time I get new numbers

[wary light]

I just took myth track pacemaker from vault on Wed 😭 (I have hero track HoC + Mega Magnet anyway but sad to "lose" a vault pick)

[balmy condor]

if you haven't checked

[haughty flicker]

i always check pins

[static glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/richard-attenborough-whip-whipped-whiplash-whiplashed-gif-16685949900343051341

[native phoenix]

lol

[lethal arrow]

Thug hotline now BIS

[static glacier]

@whisp

[lethal arrow]

20 gooners

[runic hinge]

real

[static glacier]

napkin maths says this is like 5-5.5% if not more if it enables better builds

[red schooner]

same but it'll still be solid so yeah, not too bothered

[cedar elm]

sub

[nimble tartan]

is this a big execute buff as well?

gonna be real nice on mugzee

[haughty flicker]

both specs i play got buffed

i just cant stop winning

[blazing kayak]

Wait i got a heroic magnet and vendored it, did i fuck up..

[wary light]

So when the pin says "Seaforium and Mega Magnet roughly tied for BiS." is this assuming that we are ALWAYS using HoC in the other slot?

[grave trail]

u can recover it

xd

[wary light]

Can just recover it

[past bobcat]

So 5% buff and thats without any talent changes interesting. Can't wait to see if VV changes that

[abstract steppe]

welcome back.

[storm forum]

How's ur boomie looking?

We can do delves together this weekend

[abstract steppe]

I'm so bad at casters I just want to play rogue.

[kind ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-crocodile-toy-game-funny-cute-gif-5236785718586568968

[native phoenix]

%5 buff to what

[kind ravine]

overall?

[slate crown]

Dn

[haughty flicker]

[sturdy mesa]

[storm forum]

I'm so bad at melee I just wanna play priest.

[native phoenix]

idk what dn is :C

[fallow canopy]

[haughty flicker]

wait

bleed build buffed more than hybrid

bleed chads stay winning

[grave trail]

darkestnight

[somber sparrow]

glad i didn't sell my mega magnet

[desert crest]

What is the st gain in bleed build? do we know

[grave trail]

lol like 3 dropped on my raid and i passed on all 3

[haughty flicker]

whippy is updating the pin as he does stuff

[grave trail]

shoulda know tuning was a thing

[runic hinge]

i need you to full swap to boomie so i can be #1 rogue on whisperwind

[native phoenix]

where is the patch note i didnt see it on wowhead

im noob

[lavish brook]

I guess this can be unpinned

[split veldt]

so signet/seaforium, now?

[uneven plume]

@balmy condor can I now add big boss damage in my lfg note for m+

[abstract steppe]

gotta fight @storm forum now.

[dawn pollen]

read pin sea is still bis

[split veldt]

yes

thats why i included it

in the two trinkets lol

[barren yarrow]

SOOOOO how we feeling about the class tuning?!

[lavish brook]

scroll up

[runic inlet]

lol i love class discords after tuning post

[slate crown]

Pay pay agony

[barren yarrow]

its a question lol

wtf

[balmy condor]

dude can you chill

[runic inlet]

read the pins bruv

[lavish brook]

lol

[runic inlet]

whispyr running number rn

[split veldt]

it was kinda weird not being a ST monster like we usually are, so like, woot woot lol

[fallow canopy]

why haven't you done everything 15 minutes into the notes releasing smh my head

[balmy condor]

65 chrome tabs open and I'm getting pinged about something I haven't even started simming yet

[slate crown]

Sim deeze

[distant plinth]

paladin discord xD

[barren yarrow]

cause some people want to JUST be assholes @balmy condor

[deft sluice]

@balmy condor can you unpin 4pc kthanks

[runic hinge]

[lavish brook]

pl0x

[somber sparrow]

the question is do you wait to hit 30 stacks before activating it during lingering darkness, or do you cast it every 20 seconds starting in lingering darkness regardless of stacks... hmmm

[balmy condor]

it's not even in the game until tuesday

like

shut up

lmao

[unborn marlin]

[split veldt]

my favorite part of tuning days is watching whispyr's responses

[somber sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-jim-carrey-dumb-and-dumber-jim-carrey-i-don't-hear-you-gif-9558280472791987858

[fallow canopy]

only 1 shiv in the gif, feel scammed

[storm forum]

[mighty rapids]

is that nogenfogger trink actually good now

why ppl keep mentioning it

[storm forum]

He's a good rogue so you can't see the 2nd one.

[haughty flicker]

hes playing bleed build and using shiv on cd

[fallow canopy]

outplayed

[copper flare]

i just swapped off assa this week

[haughty flicker]

L

[median root]

Check outlaw pins

[mighty rapids]

lol i got a heroic one from delve heck outlaw tho

[sonic schooner]

gj bel, your spec is great again

love u uwu

[haughty flicker]

[sonic schooner]

[thorn thorn]

[waxen oyster]

40% ambush buff

[desert crest]

blindside go brr

[waxen oyster]

140% of 0

is still 0

:l

[haughty flicker]

nah

we stay winning

[fallow canopy]

VV might be back in the menu

[grave osprey]

LESSGOO BOIS!! Ass on top!!

[burnt star]

Assa might beat sub now in raid

[waxen oyster]

I mean

they just nerfed old 2p

instead of making new one not shit

[burnt star]

They were close

[waxen oyster]

they buffed new evoker tier though

[quaint spindle]

Another 3% damage buff 🤐🤐🤐

[waxen oyster]

its not 3%

[forest garden]

It's 5% more single target damage overall

[waxen oyster]

💀

[quaint spindle]

Even better

Fuck sub!

[ebon temple]

does bleed build in dungeons do more single target? hybrid is kinda :( for boss dam i feel

[spice surge]

It does less

[ebon temple]

double frowny face

hopefully buffs make it feel better then

[soft surge]

assa buffs

i told them they listened

[waxen oyster]

Why do people act as if

[distant plinth]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[waxen oyster]

sub is overwhelmingly better than the other two rn

Literal sheep following streamers

[balmy condor]

talent update

[waxen oyster]

[balmy condor]

bottom on pins

[sudden brook]

People are dumb as bricks that's why

[runic hinge]

real and true

[onyx shadow]

but even if VV is getting better, what do we drop to get it?

[waxen oyster]

"i have to play sub"

checks stix logs

[quaint spindle]

Subs boring

[waxen oyster]

UHHHHHH

[obtuse socket]

pins has it

[sudden brook]

The spec was already better on fights like mugzee

[desert crest]

HUUUUGE

[soft surge]

wait what trinket is seaformium miles ahead of? eye of kezan?

[spice surge]

I wouldnt say sub is overwhelmingly better

Like ye its a bit better, but not massively

[waxen oyster]

you literally didnt even have to play it

pre buffs

[spice surge]

And in keys its already really close

[quaint spindle]

I don’t play it hah

[sudden brook]

I think sin is still gonna be worse xd

Barring mugzee

[haughty flicker]

its come

[sudden brook]

Unless kill timers end up better for sub

[haughty flicker]

vv supremacy

[devout sphinx]

Sub just feels better because I don’t fall asleep at the keyboard

[runic hinge]

VV is back

[spice surge]

Less APM

[red pawn]

So are we back bois? how much is the increase

[desert crest]

zero apm spec

[distant plinth]

too old for high apm speccs brother

[waxen oyster]

Wait ttb?

why

[devout sphinx]

Age excuses icant

[spice surge]

More energy

[balmy condor]

where are you putting the ttb point

[spice surge]

Why do you need arterial when you dont have imp garrote

[distant plinth]

1 key as outlaw my hand hurts af xD

[eager condor]

I feel this

[spice surge]

Bleeds do no damage

[onyx shadow]

dis for ST?

[waxen oyster]

arterial aint worth anymore i guess

[balmy condor]

I mean it's 0 bleed talents yeh

[fringe crow]

so in m+ we running blindside and sudden demise now ?

[storm zinc]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[waxen oyster]

honestly this kind of means

vanish isnt a dps button anymore

in the st build

[balmy condor]

correct

[soft surge]

sub has never been bettter than sin unless you have a phd in astro physics

[haughty flicker]

back to using it when i fuck up mark somehow

huge

[sudden brook]

Sub is easy tho?

[spice surge]

I assume the +15% bleed damage is still better than imp poison?

[soft surge]

no it isnt

[waxen oyster]

ye

[ebon steppe]

Is raidbots updated yet？

[waxen oyster]

sub hard in 2025

nice meme

[spice surge]

For the class changes no, as theyre not in until reset

Trinket changes yes

[waxen oyster]

this is likely one of the easiest sub variants

in years

[ebon steppe]

Thanks mate

[plush iris]

what is blizzard smoking

buffing ele like this

[distant plinth]

sub aint hard, just hard to time stuff perfectly. can just copy paste top loggers etc and you will be fine xD

[haughty flicker]

who tf cares about ele

[spice surge]

Dev sims higher than WW did prenerf now

[dreamy quail]

new buffs out

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/us/2080741

[ember mural]

[distant plinth]

do they have strong ST? i know their aoe is insane but

[runic hinge]

Damn. People really post wowhead articles and screenshots like we’re not all terminally online

[obtuse socket]

Their ST is pretty shit

[gray raven]

How did we catch a buff

[hidden bay]

for people with less than 1 IQ would be better to just update sims

[plush iris]

well now they do have good st

and better aoe

so idk

blizzard is smoking

[last skiff]

3%

[distant plinth]

perfect, was planning to make an ele alt so 😄

[plush iris]

like?

primodial wave buff just seems insane to me

idk

pretty sure they use that in aoe aswell

[distant plinth]

yea the new one is a aoe i think

[plush iris]

yea that's what i mean

it just seems nuts

idk

[haughty flicker]

primordial wave was like literally only used to spread flame shock

[spice surge]

Primordial wave does no damage

[haughty flicker]

it did negative damage

[plush iris]

oh ok

[haughty flicker]

now it does 500% of negative damage

[plush iris]

:D

[versed mica]

Is the pin saying we're buffed account for what we are losing from old 2pc nerf?

[spice surge]

Here is a random ST log i pulled up

[plush iris]

oh thank god

[waxen oyster]

doesnt pwave fuck

or only for the real spec

[plush iris]

i thought the buff for primordial wave was gonna be fucking huge

but nvm then

so which trinket do we use for dungeons as our hard bis now except seaforium?

[balmy condor]

signet/house of cards?

[plush iris]

oh ok

[west crown]

still HoC, the goat

[balmy condor]

the on-use slot is locked in and will be forever

[soft surge]

are sims out for the trinkets

what do i use for raid right now

[gilded oasis]

just like me, always locked in fr

[soft surge]

i have all the trinkets at heroic track

[hollow river]

you can sim it

[restive falcon]

is my 678 signet dead now

[hollow river]

the changes are live

[red schooner]

Nah

[soft surge]

i did and signet and eye is still bis over magnet and seaform

[royal lantern]

btw whisp, maybe wanna remove that "tierset onlynat 662-665" pin now

[fringe crow]

do you know why the sim is casting the magnet at 14 stacks and lingering darkness still has time on it ?

[balmy condor]

I'll fucking kill you

[soft surge]

oh i was on weekly build

[real pike]

I tried scrolling through everything since the pin but my brain is smol and smooth, is seaforium above mechano-core now?

[dense cove]

are the changes already live on raidbots?

[soft surge]

will see

[spice surge]

Class tuning is not live until reset, so no

[onyx shadow]

i think judging by the numbers i'll go signet and seaforium

[waxen oyster]

did they buff pacemaker

[royal lantern]

???????

[waxen oyster]

thought they only buffed the damage trinkets

also mechano core is better same ilvl pretty sure

[sturdy mesa]

You're like the 10th person to say it blud is busy simming for us atm

[balmy condor]

35 fucking people whispyr fix that pin whispyr fix this pin whispyr that number here there different wdym can I sim what do I sim

it's not changing till tuesday

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

and the pin is already updated

shut up

[red schooner]

[soft surge]

i dont see any pacemaker buffs or nerf

[royal lantern]

no slowmode, so not my fault

[sturdy mesa]

[haughty flicker]

should just delete sin channel until reset to save whispyrs mental

[neat flare]

WHISPYR ARE WE GOOD NOW?

[haughty flicker]

see

[waxen oyster]

my pacemaker is 678

[gilded oasis]

his mental cant be saved

[red schooner]

We garf and wait for numbers

[waxen oyster]

dont think im taking it off

ever

[balmy condor]

why are we yapping about pacemaker

[red schooner]

It's gonna be okay

[balmy condor]

what are we doing

[red schooner]

[balmy condor]

pacemaker didn't change

[sturdy mesa]

We garfing

[soft surge]

Seaforium and Mega Magnet roughly tied for BiS. Zee's Thug and the Spare Keys are decent now, Both darkflame cleft trinkets, honey buzzer and algari sigil got sizeable buffs and moved up. Turbo-drain, ratfang, and grim codex also won a fair bit, charged plume, lock'n'stalk still horrible

[royal lantern]

seaforium IS pacemaker mate

[waxen oyster]

good question i got both my 2nd try

[runic hinge]

cant save something that never existed

[soft surge]

what happend to eye and signet

[waxen oyster]

skill issue to not

[red schooner]

[gilded oasis]

so true bestie

[neat flare]

Pacemaker + Signet stays BIS for me because I'm too stupid to play other trinkets better

[runic hinge]

[neat shell]

this buff still small taste not good

[balmy condor]

pacemaker and signet were already bis

???

[gilded oasis]

ya but whats bis now

maybe you should pin it

[neat flare]

I mean regardless of tuning

[gilded oasis]

idk man

[soft surge]

ohhhhhh

[sturdy mesa]

🫡

[neat flare]

That shit staying on unless it gets dumpstered

[neat shell]

why we are the bottom melee like why

[soft surge]

you have compared seaforium tooo magnet

not coupled with it

[balmy condor]

yeah true I should just include every trinket in every pin full list

[waxen oyster]

im gonna be honest

[royal lantern]

i think people are confused and think that changed, when its just "yeha more options are good now, but this is still the best"

[cinder bone]

Whispyr did you update the pin???

[gilded oasis]

yes plz ty but also make a video cause I can't read. but dont make the video more than 20 seconds cause I have no attention span

[waxen oyster]

the average channel reader is too dumb to play 2 on use

[cinder bone]

[red schooner]

Maybe make a full bis list

[weary spear]

Bro

[red schooner]

May help

[gilded oasis]

[soft surge]

yes me

[weary spear]

This buff is unnecessary I was already blasting

[red schooner]

(pls don't kill me)

[waxen oyster]

Just loot every trinket 678

are you even trying

[sturdy mesa]

Should probably update the "4 Piece Is typically only better at roughly 662-665" pin

[kind ravine]

From which trinket does Junkmaestro's Mega Magnet originate?

[sturdy mesa]

[weary spear]

We 5 big booms boys

Is it in pins soon how much the mut/ amb buff helps us in ST?

[balmy condor]

pacemaker was like 1.5% ahead in dungeonslice cause everything else was dogshit do people just not know what trinkets are good unless they're spoonfed every number every time

[slim acorn]

assa catching a buff is kinda crazy

[red schooner]

Always have been

[plush iris]

stix

[gray raven]

Is pacemaker ahead of that delve trinket at equivalent ilevel?

[slim acorn]

love that for us

[sturdy mesa]

[balmy condor]

delve should be ahead at equal ilvl

[waxen oyster]

it caught a buff cuz community is a bunch of sheep

and acted like streamers playing sub meant sub was way ahead

it wasnt

[soft surge]

i knew it required a physics phd before i saw streamers playing it

[mighty rapids]

Who cares buff is good...assa is the most fun spec

[soft surge]

i knew it was shit when i played bleedmax

[red schooner]

Because blizz balances around forums and discords ye sure

[waxen oyster]

the only thing assa sucks at is hitting adds

tank move boss

or no spatter

[scarlet cliff]

you ok?

[cinder bone]

Yeah I’m very happy with the buffs considering I’m blasting in m+ already

[waxen oyster]

sub aint hard

[soft surge]

its annoying af to play

awkward

[waxen oyster]

not really

[zinc frost]

Have you even tried playing it?

[west crown]

community perception = bad = less subs = (im coping blizzard doesnt care about rogue players)

[soft surge]

well im not a rogue veteran so what do i know

assa feels better

[waxen oyster]

this is way easier than dust sub

[versed mica]

I try sub every expansion and I always find something about it that is cringe and so I don't play it

[plush iris]

!wa

[maiden sierra]

last time i played sub, the hardest part about it was trying to stay awake from how god awful boring it is to play

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[brittle shuttle]

cause assa is easy as hell, that doesnt mean sub is hard tho

[red schooner]

There's like 10 of us left anyhow, 1 gilded brutosaur is equal to our subs

[mighty rapids]

Sub is easier than sin in m+ imo

[waxen oyster]

the best part about playing sub was amirdrassil

blizz nerfs fyrak

[runic hinge]

good thing i bought 10 brutos

[waxen oyster]

now i have to redo cds

from 0

[soft surge]

why would i want to play a non easy spec for 8 hours a day

[waxen oyster]

very fun spreadsheet

[versed mica]

Yeah but it's cringe, sin the based gigachad

[royal lantern]

you mean open stealthis sheet

[waxen oyster]

before he cooked

90% sure i pinged scana and he said

[mighty rapids]

Yeah true im an assa truther

[waxen oyster]

"idk try something diff every pull for the funny"

[versed mica]

Okay based, carry on

[royal lantern]

ping scana now and he says "click this link for free boobies!!!"

[waxen oyster]

where did he go

[soft surge]

assa for raid and m+ pirate for everything else

[runic hinge]

damn i wish

[royal lantern]

acc hacked

[lavish brook]

I find sin way easier

[waxen oyster]

worst part about outlaw rn is not dying

to killing spree

[lethal slate]

Does anyone know a rough % increase in ST dmg we are getting from the buffs

[versed mica]

Skill issue tbh

[mighty rapids]

Nah its the carpal tunnel

[royal lantern]

in the pins, like 4%

[west crown]

5.7%

[waxen oyster]

how do you get carpal tunnel

[red schooner]

Healer issue

[versed mica]

I've been doing m+ all day every day and have only died due to killing spree like 3 times

[waxen oyster]

ya'll have unc hands

fr

[mighty rapids]

I do

I got it from playing outlaw

[sturdy mesa]

how u getting 5-5.7% to 4%

[waxen oyster]

I've never gotten pain playing wow

idk what kinda posture you people have

[royal lantern]

by mixing up the numbers in my head with the m+ number

[soft surge]

if u play outlaw in keys def take like 5x the RDA of vitamin d everyday

[west crown]

i can't even react to evicerate resets on sub, you think I can keep up with outlaw

[plush iris]

so are these gonna be our new st talents or did i miss something?

[waxen oyster]

shadowtech refunds are basically crackshot

[mighty rapids]

Its a meme i just dont enjoy classes like outlaw and fury with button mash playstyle

[waxen oyster]

but predictable

[west crown]

that's what it is looking like so far

[waxen oyster]

its not even rng you can see when you get refunds

[plush iris]

ye was going off the pin. Just wanted to know if i changed talents correctly

[weary spear]

I don’t see the single target % increase in the pins

[soft surge]

Spec Tuning
With no talent swaps or logic changes!

Single Target +5%
Hybrid Dslice +4.3%
Bleed Dslice (with blindside on both) +4.5%

[deep gyro]

Click ghe oin

[blazing pumice]

it literally says "Single Target +5%"

[balmy condor]

yes

[plush iris]

newest pin at the bottom

[plush iris]

ty

[weary spear]

Got it lol

[versed mica]

Vicious venoms is such a boring talent smh

[runic hinge]

BIG MUT

[waxen oyster]

in a way this also just buffs our raid aoe

bleeds dont spatter

[west crown]

playing sin and want thrill, it aint the spec for you

[waxen oyster]

poison dam does

nah you play havoc and make caster players shit themselves

as you jump around them

[mighty rapids]

I just wanted to see kingsbane not parriable is it too much to ask

[versed mica]

Wait, does this mean we don't need to vanish before last KB tick anymore?

[waxen oyster]

thats a feature

parry is thematic

[royal lantern]

parry is thematic, you just dont get it

[balmy condor]

it's crazy how much healthier the breakdown looks with vv I'm ngl

[versed mica]

Wait IDK how I replied to that comment

[lavish brook]

With sub you have to track bleeds, fazed, flawless form, unseen blade, shadowcraft, danse, bleeds, flag cd, and you need enough CDR for most output. Rotation changes at 7 mobs. You don’t get a silence from imp garrote. Sin is ez mode, no?

[balmy condor]

why are y'all omegalul

I'm dead serious

[haughty flicker]

no my penis is bigger

[waxen oyster]

atp can ya'll even call sin a dot spec

[hearty reef]

ok thats stronger than rotten shadowstrike

[royal lantern]

envenom dwarfing everything will never not be hilarious in some way

[spice surge]

5 of the things you listed for sub are not things you need to track

[uneven plume]

Whysper you didn’t answer me

😦

[lavish brook]

which?

[runic hinge]

Garrote below deadly poison is kinda wack

[balmy condor]

was it dumb

[uneven plume]

Can I brag about m+ st boss damage now?

[balmy condor]

okay it was dumb

now you know

[uneven plume]

[haughty flicker]

lmao

[balmy condor]

I expected nothing less

[mystic osprey]

[spice surge]

Flawless, fazed (only really need to show if its not up when coup is ready), shadowcraft not needed, danse not needed

[versed mica]

NVM tho if I don't have to ambush after KB anymore I'm fine with VV.
I like having ambush to reapply mark, seeing how some fights made me lose mark if I was unlucky enough

[static glacier]

oldnew pooling logic back on the table with VV?

[balmy condor]

no

sanguine sucks

[hearty reef]

yay

[royal lantern]

slam abilitys

[toxic spear]

what is vv

[hearty reef]

55 energy mutis!!

[static glacier]

I meant more vv might make pooling a thing again

[balmy condor]

how

[waxen oyster]

but tryan

[haughty flicker]

actually

[waxen oyster]

my auto tea

its ruining my dps

!!!

[static glacier]

it should hit our env uptime (cope)

ttk killed pooling what am I saying

[versed mica]

Still pool before nondeathmark kb tho yeah?

[haughty flicker]

does this make the fok on 6 cp for dn thing a loss in raid talents now

instead of equal

[mighty rapids]

To me sub is easier cause u dont have to worry about stealth, no dot tracking and once u get rotation down its just same thing over and over. Plus ur cd's are almost always up

[balmy condor]

okay bud

[runic hinge]

Why is 2 more than 1

[balmy condor]

because you have 2 stacks more than you have 1

[versed mica]

Huh wha, why would that be a thing?

[balmy condor]

[haughty flicker]

because 2 is a bigger number dumbass

[static glacier]

mut about to CRANK

[haughty flicker]

because i read the pins

[balmy condor]

probably

[haughty flicker]

[waxen oyster]

why do i feel like

mut does more than shadowstrike now

[static glacier]

this is wild cope

[balmy condor]

cause it probably does

[static glacier]

no shot

[hearty reef]

[static glacier]

shs hits like a700-900k truck

mut will hit like 550-600?

[haughty flicker]

mut op

[lavish brook]

if flawless form is active then you ss in 3+ targets and evis as a finisher. Fazed needs to be your target. Shadowcraft is the main thing to be tracked, if you spend a builder while you have a max finisher (which procs in a split second if youre not tracking it) then ya lose CDR. I'll give ya danse

[versed mica]

I read the pins ya dork, just wasn't sure why you would stop

[static glacier]

actually im not factoring in vv

[haughty flicker]

because 40% damage on mut and playing vv now

[static glacier]

with vv it might

[haughty flicker]

i thought that was obvious

[west crown]

bleed build sin in m+ is braindead tho, who cares about cds you are always pumping

[versed mica]

Yeah I know that now

[balmy condor]

Fan of Knives at 6cp for Darkest Night

actions.direct+=/fan_of_knives,if=buff.darkest_night.up&combo_points=6

uhoh theorycrafter made minor spelling mistake! (I forgot vicious was a talent when I changed the logic im ngl I'm checking that real quick)

[static glacier]

nah, im on a pepega streak now

[waxen oyster]

also does this mean haste is even worse in st now

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-gif-21179057

[spice surge]

Wdym "fazed needs to be your target", youre literally just hitting the same target, its always the fazed one. You dont need a shadowcraft tracker, you can just manually react to the procs like outlaw does with ace

[hearty reef]

does this mean

[haughty flicker]

yes

it does

it does mean

[fallow canopy]

what does this mean for c9

[hearty reef]

[lavish brook]

fazed has a CD, ya gotta make decisions around it

[haughty flicker]

what does ja have to say about this though

[spice surge]

No

[west crown]

buddy arguing with one of THE sub rogues

[haughty flicker]

also im changing name back this meme isnt very good

[waxen oyster]

man hasnt read thousand cuts

[balmy condor]

good comment though. Shame I have to fucking wade through a channel of nipple-high sewage waste to find something of value but ya know

[haughty flicker]

[fallow canopy]

we back to ignoring ctw btw?

[balmy condor]

and it doesn't matter

[versed mica]

And in the sin channel no less

[balmy condor]

incredible

[spice surge]

The classic

[hearty reef]

woah

[haughty flicker]

[tall jay]

Waiting for the goat to do goat things so we all can complain about how the goat did goat things lol

[balmy condor]

okay so tldr

no ctw proc

can fok on 6

don't have to

[west crown]

tbf when is it only a sin channel in here

[versed mica]

Real

[void pecan]

True

[balmy condor]

and just cause @static glacier is so cute I'll tighten the screw on pooling and watch the dps instantly crater

maybe

idk

[west crown]

14% pooling buff inc?

[dense cove]

@balmy condor how are you running all these changes before raidbots is updated? just curious if there's a way to play with it in advance

[balmy condor]

I'

am overriding things

by hand

[royal pier]

just picked up rogue but opted for sub over assa because I heard bad things about the ST damage, does the buff address that in some way?

[dense cove]

oh, well ty sir for what you do 🙂

[versed mica]

Huh

[waxen oyster]

assa bad st

huh

[west crown]

sin has bad st by design

[native phoenix]

im doing weak damage with assa in keys

[west crown]

its intentional

[waxen oyster]

not really

[native phoenix]

is it me

[chilly marsh]

40% buff it was not bad but horrible 😂

[royal pier]

I don't know anything about rogue, just what I've heard

[versed mica]

How y'all saying sin st bad

Just do damage

[maiden sierra]

because it is

[wide ferry]

Sin st in keys is shit lol

[haughty flicker]

just hit the boss harder

[maiden sierra]

[vocal edge]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[versed mica]

Well yeah in keys sin St is bad

[waxen oyster]

plays bleed build

"why is my st bad"

[cinder bone]

Sin ST is fine and prio damage is great

[versed mica]

In raid it goes hard, just get good

[cinder bone]

Iron wire carries pugs

[west crown]

bleed is isnt far behind hybrid

[native phoenix]

i guess im doing something wrong

[versed mica]

Most real thing said today

[balmy condor]

@static glacier neat

[versed mica]

Pug don't have kick on bar 💀

[west crown]

so we at 6% now?

[balmy condor]

what

[cinder bone]

Even the damage reduction lets pally and DH tanks get situated

[west crown]

ok maybe I misread

[haughty flicker]

iw is based

even if i dont use it

bc i must pad

[balmy condor]

okay bet, last update to pins coming up and then video and then dinner and then NO ONE WILL HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS RIGHT

YOU WILL ALL BEHAVE

RIGHT

[versed mica]

People just need to kick

[static glacier]

you're encountering absurdism within the sims

[fallow canopy]

I have one teacher

[maiden sierra]

[static glacier]

LMAO pooling is a loss kekw

[alpine pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/awoo-cat-hawow-cute-cat-ana-gif-13501366453004654335

[west crown]

should just be a warning on this discord to not ping the man

[alpine pagoda]

AWOoooooooooo

[versed mica]

I have a question, how are u?

[balmy condor]

I'm okay, I slept in today

[versed mica]

Hell yeah brother

[dull kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-sir-yes-boss-military-salute-giving-honor-rip-gif-23161689

[balmy condor]

but assa notes in blue text lowers the ability to read in this channel by like 75%

[static glacier]

what's for dinner

[runic hinge]

One hour slow mode

[static glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-hi-cute-kitten-cat-gif-19842512

[grave osprey]

This is it bois- were s tier!!

[balmy condor]

isaac newton equal opposite reaction

buff assa, nerf intelligence

[fallow canopy]

are we back to completely ignoring ctw with VV?

[balmy condor]

prolly a pizza

[versed mica]

Rogue uses agility silly

[balmy condor]

tis how that works yes

[static glacier]

A+ tier dinner

[versed mica]

Not intellect

[grave osprey]

How much of a buff is this overall?

[real pike]

no this describes me perfectly tbh

[fallow canopy]

aight appreciate it king

[waxen oyster]

i'd prob use mechano core

if there wasnt a 20 ilvl gap

between mine

[real pike]

mechano-core was on the wowhead bis list and simmed higher than pacemaker for me so my ape brain gets confused 😦

[waxen oyster]

its better at equal ilvl

[versed mica]

Why they make a 13 ilvl gap between hero and myth track bro, lemme chill with my hero track delve trinks damn

[waxen oyster]

but delve loot caps at hero

[balmy condor]

yeah maybe we just need more bis lists

cause right now we have overall bis, bis from raid, bis from m+

[waxen oyster]

i wear the same gear

to raid or dungeon

[balmy condor]

maybe we just need an overall bis, bis from raid for m+, bis from raid for raid, bis from m+ for raid, bis from m+ for m+

and then a seperate tier list for delves

could be the move

[haughty flicker]

i havent simmed dungeon slice all season

[waxen oyster]

bis from wqs

[waxen oyster]

i never

[fallow canopy]

I haven't sim dslice ever

[haughty flicker]

when i first started playing i did

[dull kindle]

what about pre-bis lists for raid and m+ also

[haughty flicker]

but uh

i learned that i dont care

if something is .2% better in dslice

[balmy condor]

I saw a heatmap of the wowhead guides, like where people click and hold their cursors and how far they scroll and stuff

like where they spend time on the page

and jesus fuck it makes me lose all hope in humanity

[haughty flicker]

scroll straight to bis list

[dreamy rover]

lmao

[balmy condor]

I sometimes wonder why I even write words

[haughty flicker]

close guide

[static glacier]

only gear only bis

never rotation

never undermine

[balmy condor]

actually even worse than that

people don't even get to the BiS lists

[dreamy rover]

can the regular people see this?

[static glacier]

just talents on cheat sheet?

[balmy condor]

the bis lists are there for the apes hitting "assa gear" into google

[balmy condor]

no

[balmy condor]

yeh

[haughty flicker]

lmao

thats so fucked

[winged basin]

How?… it’s the first thing I look at after talents and rotations actual mongoloids

[balmy condor]

legit like half of my guide's traffic is like open assa overview page, scroll to cheat sheet

close guide

[winged basin]

I wanna see what ele looks like

Can a heat map be cold? 😂

[balmy condor]

they all look roughly the same

you can assume that all wowhead guides

for a majority of the playerbase

is open overview page

[dreamy rover]

tbf i kind of do that sometimes, i just delete all my talent builds because im going insane and copy it again

[balmy condor]

scroll to cheat sheet

close guide

rotation page is one of the lower trafficked pages

[winged basin]

absolutely wild, then those same people come to class discs because their parses are shit

[static glacier]

that's so bleak, not even opening talents to select the right build

[balmy condor]

also if any text is written below the top third of the page

it's not getting read

[static glacier]

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

tiktok gg'd everyone's attention span

[real pike]

I mean I was looking at the overall and people seem to be talking overall

[runic hinge]

people come in here and say why is my damage low and theyve never even looked at the opener

its so wild

[balmy condor]

we kinda already knew that though, because that's why wowhead splits the guide into like 75 pages

[spice surge]

Leveling guide one of the most veiwed pages

[haughty flicker]

dude

its actually a bit wild

[balmy condor]

we do that because people will legit

not scroll

[runic hinge]

like i did nothing but read chat in here for over a month before i typed cause i was trying to learn

[grave osprey]

More bis lists pls

[haughty flicker]

when someone posts a log asking what they did wrong

[balmy condor]

if you make someone scroll down

[haughty flicker]

and its literally like not even close to the correct opener

[balmy condor]

they won't

[haughty flicker]

like they didnt even try

[lucid silo]

dont make me scroll daddy whisp

[runic hinge]

makes sense, rogue leveling is hard af

[haughty flicker]

first thing i did when learning sin was look at opener on wowhead and go hit target dummy

[severe meadow]

I wake up to buffs

[balmy condor]

the convo was about m+ trinkets, where seaforium is so oppressive it's not even remotely funny, but yeh I feel it

[digital wind]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[balmy condor]

if you look at it as a whole then mechano is bangin

[lethal slate]

Can someone explain to me in dumb people terms, when does lingering darkness proc? i feel like it never happens

[runic hinge]

same for over an hour i hit a dummy every day just to make it muscle memory but that was also when exsang existed

[spice surge]

After Deathmark

[runic hinge]

after your dm ends

[spice surge]

Not deathstalkers mark, theyre different

[balmy condor]

[real pike]

thank you for being patient with my dumbness and explaining

[real pike]

to this even

[balmy condor]

np

[winged basin]

My favorite thing is when something changes, and the same question gets asked 50 times in a row, even if it’s pinned, bold, italicized and highlighted, and then the rage out when you tell em to check pins, and it happens in every single disc of every single class

[devout mist]

Explain Kappa ty

[lethal slate]

like as in if the 30 second timer runs out?

[waxen oyster]

or the mob dies

whichever is first

[spice surge]

#assassination message

[balmy condor]

deathmarm

[haughty flicker]

marm

https://tenor.com/view/minor-spelling-mistake-gif-21179057

not again

[balmy condor]

my fingers don't even want to answer anymore

my brain says help the guy

my fingers say no

[lethal slate]

oooh ok that makes sense. i was hitting target dummies tryna make a WA for my mega magnet and lingering darkness

[sharp viper]

HUUUUGE ambush/mutilate buffs

[dreamy rover]

deathmarm

[balmy condor]

okay now fry it

[north marsh]

tbf .. this is literally every website outside of like, wiki pages. at least it was like this for our sites.

[balmy condor]

it's so bad

[balmy condor]

art

[waxen oyster]

Pretty sure i seen stuff about gen z is

incredibly illiterate

[dreamy rover]

[haughty flicker]

why wood i read

[devout mist]

Can u make a short explaining the pin 😂 ?

[balmy condor]

I started making youtube videos specifically because guides and pins weren't dispersing info

[north marsh]

agree.. even more alarming, I work for Consulting Engineering firms, lol. you would think engineers and clients would read the totality of the information, they do not.

[balmy condor]

and then I got feedback that 20 min was too long + L + didn't watch

and I'm like well

[west crown]

visual learning > text

[balmy condor]

guess I'll die

[haughty flicker]

just need more linux

[limber glen]

Magnet should be affected by lethal dose aswell ye?

[west crown]

I'd rather get an hour long video then a 10 page essay

[balmy condor]

[gray raven]

Not too long! Keep going

[past bobcat]

Need to make tik toks lmao

[north marsh]

just post JPGs of consolidated information with pictures on twitter.. at a 5th grade reading level.. you will get better engagement lol

[runic hinge]

Master of ass but not the rogue kind

[west crown]

when do we get a new Whispyr name, tuning has arrived

[waxen oyster]

Post tiktoks with 30 secs of ads

before each one

[balmy condor]

actually true

[haughty flicker]

[waxen oyster]

"bleeds up? ok good"

[limber glen]

ah lol i mistook it with ratfang

[west crown]

[waxen oyster]

"now press these 2 butons only"

[balmy condor]

that might be even crazier

you're getting worse

reel it back

[limber glen]

why?

[balmy condor]

cause rogue talents affect rogue skills and nothing else

lingering darkness is a bugged outlier

[waxen oyster]

wasnt it also bugged with mandate

for sub

[limber glen]

thats good to know

thank you

[balmy condor]

lingering buffs shadow damage on sub

so anything shadow damage on sub is the same thing

[waxen oyster]

you cant expect the 1 intern on rogue

to publish this class bug free

smh

[cinder bone]

Anyone running bleed build in keys 11 and above? Is the loss in ST compared to hybrid noticeable? Debating switching since in pugs at that range I find it's the trash that tends to brick keys not bosses

[balmy condor]

fixing lingering is legit just adding 1 flag

it's like a 5min fix I'm pretty sure

[devout mist]

Lingering is just copy paste aberus set

[waxen oyster]

actually 1 intern is generous

the janitor on his shit break

[cinder bone]

we're second least popular class after monk right?

[smoky furnace]

They once added a bag slot and KT lost his hair

[balmy condor]

monk is second least popular after us

[cinder bone]

oh lmao damn

[severe meadow]

Whispyr who did you pay off

[balmy condor]

for what

[dreamy rover]

whispyr sent his gangstalkers after rogue class designers

for the buff

[severe meadow]

Buffs

[balmy condor]

brother I was bracing for nerfs don't ask me shit

I did soul-read the cutting 2pc stacks in half though

[severe meadow]

Kinda figured 2pc would get hit

[heavy island]

hope we dont get nerfed before enhance

[balmy condor]

I said most reasonable way to fix tier balance was to cap the old 2pc at 5 stacks like 2 hours before the tuning came out

that was pretty sick

[polar sleet]

Buff new 4p instead

[dreamy rover]

im actually surprised they nerfed everyone and didnt touch sub, i was expecting at least a 5% nerf to sec tech damage or some bullshit like that

[waxen oyster]

imagine they didnt nerf the 2p

our breakdown would be even funnier

[balmy condor]

but you couldn't have paid me money to anticipate a 40% mut buff

[balmy condor]

the whole point is to precisely not do this

[west crown]

everyone complaining so much about "bad ST"

[waxen oyster]

im just waiting for blizz to fuck up

[polar sleet]

Well they should do that

[waxen oyster]

and also buff outlaw ambush by 40

wouldnt put it past them

[balmy condor]

why should they do that incredibly dumb thing

enlighten me

[past holly]

well these buffs are exciting, but I'm not sure we needed it?

[devout mist]

They already fucked up buffing assa Kappa

[waxen oyster]

honestly didnt

community just overhyped sub

cuz rwf played it

[west crown]

only reason I can come up with them thinking sin needed a buff would be looking at mythic logs

[balmy condor]

asking for 4pc buffs is straight brainrot from people just legit not turning their brains on

I swear

[waxen oyster]

didnt they already dickpunch sub's 4p

[balmy condor]

have we thought this through

[waxen oyster]

before raid opened

[balmy condor]

for more than 2 seconds

[ebon lodge]

wat overall % buff is this hotfix

[tall atlas]

check the pins

[devout mist]

Twice

[polar sleet]

We get into the new season but you need myth track 4p to be better than 2+2, yea gj blizzard lets just nerf the old set instead

[waxen oyster]

i wouldnt be surprised if they just buffed ambush for the class

[polar sleet]

Should've bin fixed ages ago

[waxen oyster]

and not just sin

blizz aint the brightest

[polar sleet]

Blizz is shiet

[fallow canopy]

[balmy condor]

okay I want you to think for a second about why this is

[fallow canopy]

I feel like this convo happens daily

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/ah-shit-here-we-go-gif-15190379

[tall atlas]

hahaha

[nimble tartan]

chat idk how to play around lingering darkness its over for me

[onyx scroll]

This sub is a flat circle

[dreamy rover]

to be fair it was kinda understandable we had to get a lot of ilvl to compensate for the vile tincture stacks

[spice spire]

No this is #assassination

🙂

[devout mist]

No

[haughty flicker]

[onyx scroll]

[tall atlas]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[devout ingot]

@balmy condor is the wowhead updated with the trinket changes?

[west crown]

gutting borrowed power before you can acquire new borrowed power is bad gameplay

[balmy condor]

they buffed the season 1 two piece halfway through the season, so it was over-tuned after that, so the new bonus in season 2, which is tuned, is now weaker, right? We all remember this?

So then now, the proposed solution by angry idiots is to scream BUFF FOUR PIECE!!! And that would be a buff.... to a bonus.... halfway through the season.... so it's over-tuned after that..... so the new bonus in season 3.... we see the problem yes?

[warm crow]

buff season 3 bonus

[balmy condor]

just keep kicking the can down the road

[onyx scroll]

Sir this is a Wendy’s

[polar sleet]

Yea cause they're doing a shit job

[spice spire]

Also if you constantly have to buff tier that’s hitting the goal of 10ish%

Maybe the class itself needs an adjustment

And not the tier 🙂

[last skiff]

S3 1p 1p 1p incoming

[devout mist]

Yea, delete it

[balmy condor]

make the season 1 bonus 15% so that they're forced to make the season 4 bonus 20% a year and a half later

[spice spire]

Outlaw first

[balmy condor]

I am very smart

[dreamy rover]

makes a lot of sense, we cant keep keeping on with the problem

[dapper cradle]

Let me put the head in king

[void pecan]

assuming there is a s3 this xpac

Wait, there's gonna be fated raid before next xpac this fall/winter..

sheit.

[hollow river]

What exactly do you think they should do? Make all tier sets +2%?

[west crown]

ayo