assassination

[balmy condor]

I see

[subtle tundra]

then i did a convergence

[royal lantern]

@coarse aurora @iron carbon just wanna say quickly, that the "MA is bait" thing is a joke, not a serious thing

[balmy condor]

your face is bait

[subtle tundra]

i complained about deathstalker -> DS -> deeper stratagem

[ebon ingot]

hey guys, my garrote is doing more damage or envenom/ct doing less damage, idk what im doing wrong

[blazing pumice]

these questions tonight

[ebon ingot]

😄

[keen spruce]

Go to bed all of u

Questions are for Tuesday

[dawn seal]

Huh

How is garrote doing more damage

Is that single target

[ebon ingot]

no aoe

[dawn seal]

I remember bleeding for energy poisons for damage

From a very amazing streamer

[zenith elm]

What key lvl are we talking about?

[ebon ingot]

10

[dawn seal]

I mean in general isn't ur top dps caustic in paxks

Or ct

[zenith elm]

And your caustic is at how much?

[ebon ingot]

yeah caustic is top

thats in the 13% range

but next is garrote

[zenith elm]

Then all is ok, whats your overall dps in details ?

[ebon ingot]

1.8

ilvl 635

[zenith elm]

1.8 in a 10 is good

[dawn seal]

Very sus

Just drop a log

And some good people would check it

[balmy condor]

:glerm:

[bronze pike]

[balmy condor]

this looks incredibly normal for a 10

[golden loom]

Garrote does crank

[balmy condor]

sanguine kinda cranking on that but makes sense considering bleed dam

[ebon ingot]

ok in that case thank you

was just wondering why my log looked different

[balmy condor]

wdym

should be the same no?

I mean maybe if you played with aug it shuffles the numbers around a little

but should be similar

[ebon ingot]

from others i mean, theirs is caustic, envenom, ct, rupture and garrote in that order

[balmy condor]

what dungeon did you run

[ebon ingot]

svc

sv

[balmy condor]

idk first sv log I opened had even more garrote, beating out spatter by a little

ct similar

rupture basically identical

envenom lower

[ebon ingot]

hmm ok maybe im just looking too much into it

thank you though you guys are the best

[subtle tundra]

dumbass its monday mornang

well

noon

garrote does a lot more in lower keys

cause proportionality changes with pull duration

you only garrote with ic so the longer the pull the less garrote does proportionaly

why do i even bother nobody cares im just a fuckup

[dawn seal]

U are great varas wdym

What is ic

Improved caustic

🤔

[subtle tundra]

carnage

[dawn seal]

Oh

[golden loom]

Indiscriminate carnage

[dawn seal]

Improved carnage

Oh

Ops

Mb

[golden loom]

Improved caustic would be crazy

[subtle tundra]

😔

pre nerf caustic basically

god i wanna get jorked

so bad

[golden loom]

Well tier set buff combined with caustic nerf was like a +-0 change right

Or even just a buff

[dawn seal]

Uncap caustic

Make it %100

Make it work on bleeds as wwll

Make it so that also gives u energy

Also duplicates on deathmark

[earnest remnant]

also nerfs outlaw by 80%

[dawn seal]

Yes

[rotund oak]

[iron carbon]

Nice joke

[rotund oak]

reporting in lord raccoon,action for total sub domination next season has begun

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-gossip-pet-lover-excited-gif-20654709

[iron carbon]

I wonder how much playing Cleave build is a dps loss in CoT

you guys already tried?

[subtle tundra]

probaly not good

[iron carbon]

You prolly right

But DPS feels so bad on nearly all packs

[subtle tundra]

does it?

[blazing pumice]

should be fine after first boss

[subtle tundra]

assa is pretty good in cot

[blazing pumice]

before first boss my dps is pretty crap, after that it's fine

[iron carbon]

Dunno, first packs are just padding on little trash

So you don't do damages

[subtle tundra]

you do

on first pull you should do well

its a basic pull

and on 2nd pull, the trick is to chain the pack of smallies before boss

and get funnel

those smallies dont give any value on boss cause they die so fast in cds

[iron carbon]

Ikr

[subtle tundra]

so they are way more useful outside of cds

[iron carbon]

Guess i struggle with the route of my tanks

[subtle tundra]

i also vanish when we do that

if you play any more than those 2 pulls in cot before first boss youre trolling

[iron carbon]

I'm not choosing 😛

[subtle tundra]

well im assuming you play with a group, i cant help with pugs

[blazing pumice]

varas do you know why the first boss of siege is hitting melee?

with heavy hitter

[subtle tundra]

nope never happened

[blazing pumice]

we've had three runs in a row now

he's just turning around and whacking melee

[subtle tundra]

can be some guy using meld

i think

do you have meld in group?

id expect a little rat priest to do that

so he doesnt have to run

and not take blame

[blazing pumice]

only me

[subtle tundra]

idk then ive never been hit by the boss

maybe???? tank has aggro on boss and bubbles

and then aggro resets

[iron carbon]

Yes, maybe I just old my cd too much then cuz he was chaining bad packs

[blazing pumice]

prot warrior

kek

[subtle tundra]

well

im just spitballin

[blazing pumice]

prot war/ret pally/resto sham/dk/me

[subtle tundra]

maybe tank DOESNT have enough aggro and the paladin BoPs the fixated target

and you get aggro

[blazing pumice]

seems to just be a common theme this patch

i had a mob melee me in cot 4 seconds into tricks

even after waiting for them to spawn

[subtle tundra]

idk the only times aggro is a problem is from bubble taunt

and you dont have that

[subtle tundra]

thats just how that mob works

you dont stay next to him

he attacks closest target instantly

[blazing pumice]

right that is what i'm saying

i waited

they spawned and started moving

i tot

4 seconds into tot they melee me

[subtle tundra]

well idk how that could happen

if its exactly as you said

[blazing pumice]

game in beta

[subtle tundra]

the mob has like a 2 sec buffer to get threat

[blazing pumice]

i think i'm done this season anyway, group doesn't want to use the buff exploit and we're just hard stuck on 17s

[iron carbon]

Damn

[blazing pumice]

and i'm pretty sure other groups on oce are doing it

[subtle tundra]

🤨

[iron carbon]

M+ looks so much funnier in group

[blazing pumice]

or they magically got a lot of io quickly

[iron carbon]

buff exploit? The 5% stats ?

[blazing pumice]

just the follower raid one

[subtle tundra]

well youre playing a full offmeta comp\

dont think you should expect to do much more

unless youre very very very good

and/or play way more

we have 1 18 left, then the easy 19s and we're done

so 3-4 keys left

[iron carbon]

Can you explain?

I'm not aware of it

[blazing pumice]

you can get all the raid buffs and keep them for m+

[subtle tundra]

id enjoy to play with 3% vers and 5% attack power

thats a 8% dps increase

nice

[blazing pumice]

for us the fort would be a big deal

[iron carbon]

• 2% mastery + 10% stam

[blazing pumice]

5%*

and ai

[subtle tundra]

no, cause we have those

[iron carbon]

idd

Already got enhanc and disc I guess

If you getting 18

[blazing pumice]

the exploit has been around for months now and they don't seem to be doing anything

[iron carbon]

Didn't not play in M+ for months

I'm just back in it

And I remember why I stopped pug

[subtle tundra]

elemental dummy

[iron carbon]

10 % if priest playing Archon, no?

[iron carbon]

What's your comp?

[subtle tundra]

not hard to guess considering you know the only flex slot(rogue) and that its ele instead of enha
prot,holy,aug

[iron carbon]

Make sense

[blazing pumice]

only the priest gets the extra 5%

[subtle tundra]

atleast one of the slots in the group can be something different

so thats good

maybe dont make aug mandatory

and then we will have 2 slots

and then nerf shaman a bit

and then we have a great meta

[iron carbon]

Oh, okay, good to know

[iron carbon]

Someday

I wish I had some mates to push keys. Kinda stuck rn in Pug

It takes soooooooo much time to get in key

[subtle tundra]

im pushing with guildmates

[iron carbon]

I got 2 issues with it.

• My motherlanguage isn't English so it's hard to communicate or understand easily
• A few are motivated to do big keys

[subtle tundra]

you dont have english as your first language to communicate

we have 2 swedes a german a portuguese and a romanian

[iron carbon]

It's hard for me I mean

^^

[subtle tundra]

you can type just fine

so how bad can it be to talk

[iron carbon]

My audition comprehension is fcking bad

Even in raid, if RL makes a call that change a bit of the routine, I need few sec to process

Add accent to this

Maybe I can look for a team on raider.io or something like this

[dawn seal]

naaa

raids all the way

mythic plus is ultra boring

content

remove raid lockouts

https://tenor.com/view/gojo-absolute-cinema-gif-8932131737123141805

[spice surge]

No

[iron carbon]

I love both

[subtle tundra]

ban this guy

imagine having the only relevant content locked behind having to play with 19 other people

m+ is goated

[dawn seal]

dont ban me

yo what

[subtle tundra]

imagine dungeons not having an actual difficulty, what would the gameplay be when you dont have raid

[royal lantern]

m+ was good once

at this point its a half rotten bloaten corpse they try to keep relevant with weird choices instead of making good calls

like man

just the cc changes

[subtle tundra]

how was it good man

it has only gotten better

youve been shitting on m+ since like sl

[royal lantern]

ye cus since SL m+ sucks

[subtle tundra]

so how was legion-bfa m+ better

it was just objectively worse

[iron carbon]

I agree with Varas

Delu to say M+ were better before

System is just getting better and better

[dawn seal]

I dont think its bad

I think its boring

not the keys it self maybe but

the processs and everything that comes with m+ package

[iron carbon]

And allow casual player to have fun and allwo try harders to try hard when they want

[subtle tundra]

yeah theres bad shit like CoT RP or dying to paladin tempered(which isnt m+ fault)

but i think if we look at people complaining back then, youd find it so so so much worse

[iron carbon]

The only bad thing is the community

[subtle tundra]

look at key rerolling

holy shit, i dont wanna go back pre key rerolling

[dawn seal]

the 12 shit for next season sounds actual fun tho

[subtle tundra]

stuck with 5 grim batols

[dawn seal]

I agree with varas about its getting better

everyday

[subtle tundra]

imagine bolstering still being in the game

or sanguine

or teeming and you have 2 elite mobs

in the same pack

real ones know

or ghuunies in bfa s1

[iron carbon]

Oh no please, don't

I wanna forget it

[spice surge]

Ghuunies

[subtle tundra]

or that you could only push keys 1/2 weeks every 3 months

and if you couldnt play you were assfucked gg

[royal lantern]

cus that was the time before blizz started their "we actually hate big pulls and mass aoe" crusade

[subtle tundra]

i hate massive pulls

[spice surge]

Was it really

[subtle tundra]

it massive pulls are possible it means the mobs do nothing, if i wanna play a target dummy i go in dornogal

[golden loom]

pulling the entire dungeon and aoe blasting it compared to if there were smaller harder more interesting pulls

[spice surge]

Youre not pulling massive pulls in bfa dungeons either

Besides freehold

[subtle tundra]

tol dagor first pull

[royal lantern]

eh, then we got the the target caps, but it didnt help

then they gave adds more casts to prevent big pulls and people used aoe cc

then they made the cc interupt change to prevent big pulls

[iron carbon]

Tol Dagor, beach pulls

[subtle tundra]

equip outlaw weapon spam fok go outside

[royal lantern]

like, blizz hates big pulls and tries to prevent them all the time lol

[iron carbon]

Fck I'm too slow

[subtle tundra]

you can still CC chain

we do it

every good group does it

[spice surge]

All the old dungeons also have tons of casts to prevent people from enormous pulls

"old" as in bfa

Legion have less of them

[subtle tundra]

that is old...

you old...

also m+ dungeons receive so much more balancing changes

[royal lantern]

90% of current m+ pushers didnt saw bfa ok

[subtle tundra]

youd be lucky in bfa to see anything changed

[royal lantern]

varas is a living Fossil

[spice surge]

Idk the whole "m+ was so much easier before" just feels kinda weird to me

[earnest remnant]

Freehold, Tol dagor, Motherload, waycrest

[subtle tundra]

man i liked bfa dungeons

meow...

maybe i just liked the game more

cause i was more casual

"casual"

[earnest remnant]

and if you wanna get dicey, Atal dazar snapping 4 packs of birds + middle pack

[subtle tundra]

(i was playing a fuckload of hours)

i was doing less difficult content so everything seemed better

[golden loom]

almost like the game is designed for that bracket

[royal lantern]

not easier, but they just felt less...."forced"

like, in your BfA example there

[subtle tundra]

i was still CE raider and doing high m+, i think it would be around title cutoff range nowadays

[golden loom]

okay maybe I missed the "casual"

[royal lantern]

if waycrest was a DF/TWW dungeon, you could not do the Pig bossroom giga pull, cus they would give the big guys all CC immunity + a not interuptable 50% max hp group nuke every 15seconds, and place 4 of them, so you need to do 3-4 pulls there

[subtle tundra]

well i also did make a reddit post to get tips cause i was hardstuck

[subtle tundra]

dont tell him we got waycrest in df

he is unaware

[spice surge]

You mean like when it was a dungeon in DF and it didnt do those things?

[subtle tundra]

my goal for sl was to push harder and play with top players, and i did that then nothing mattered

[golden loom]

so you kinda completed the game

[radiant raven]

Have you considered: pet battles

[royal lantern]

yes, and it was a reissued dungeon

talking about the "modern" dungeons we got since then

[subtle tundra]

and blizzard adds mechanics to modernize it

[royal lantern]

where they made unavoidable dmg just waaay more common

[subtle tundra]

my honest reaction when mist maze has mobs that charge ranged people

[golden loom]

is cata the cut off for bringing dungeons to m+ or have they done any earlier ones?

[subtle tundra]

🪱

[radiant raven]

deadmines M+ when

[iron carbon]

At least the removed the AoE shit that you needed to stun

[royal lantern]

they OG said that MoP will be the cut off

and then 5months later made cata dungeons

[subtle tundra]

whirlwind!!!

[radiant raven]

So there's hope for Deadmines M+ then

[golden loom]

technically that was also updated in cata

[radiant raven]

oooh

damn, good point

[iron carbon]

Remember that shit in sanguine weeks

[subtle tundra]

vortex pinnacle made me hate DF. like the whole expansion

[royal lantern]

vortex was so bad

sooo bad

[golden loom]

deadmines is the best dungeon ever made and I will hear nothing else

[royal lantern]

just boring bs

literally hold W

[subtle tundra]

not a single good mechanic

not one

[royal lantern]

with shit mechanics

[subtle tundra]

in the whole dungeon

[spice surge]

I feel like dungeons like arakara/dawnbreaker has less things to worry about than a dungeon like waycrest

[subtle tundra]

i would've said every tww dungeon this season is good, if CoT RP wasnt a thing

why blizzard

[radiant raven]

Dawnbreaker best TWW dungeon, imo.

[subtle tundra]

why is 3 layers of rng a thing

in roleplay

[dawn seal]

bring scholamance in to m+ pool

everything is fun again

[radiant raven]

it is an MoP dungeon so had a challenge mode....

[dawn seal]

oh wait did it

[royal lantern]

dawnbreaker is short, which REALLY helps

watch them not learning from it and do 38+min dungeons again

[dawn seal]

idk what a challenge mode is

[golden loom]

did MoP change scholo in any way or was it the same as classic

[dawn seal]

isnt theatre of pain

[radiant raven]

It's not just short, but compartmentalized which is extremely helpful for learning.

[dawn seal]

38+ dungeon

[subtle tundra]

oh yea that mop dungeon, temple of jade serpent

[dawn seal]

with 5 bosses

[subtle tundra]

cant believe that was also m+

holy shit

blizzard

[radiant raven]

Jade Serpent had one extremely fun pull though

[spice surge]

Ye temple was definitely mechanics overload

[dawn seal]

what if they start adding raids by making it a dungeonlike by taking some bosses and they add it to pools

[subtle tundra]

i believe it got many nerfs

but way too late

like so so so late

[dawn seal]

m+ dungeon ice crown

[radiant raven]

Yeah

[subtle tundra]

i had given up already

[radiant raven]

Also it broke the OG jade temple really badly

[golden loom]

m+ versions of raids sounds lit

[spice surge]

I love holding my globals so i can gauge the 0.8s tank buster cast

[dawn seal]

yee

omg

someone make this happen

[radiant raven]

You wipe and suddenly the timer loses 5 minutes

[spice surge]

Not enough

[earnest remnant]

skipping last boss with 2x rogue was funny af tho

[dawn seal]

nono like

[subtle tundra]

atleast dungeons this season were fine, and next ones look fine aswell

[dawn seal]

take away bosses in a raid re areange and actually turn it into an m+ dungeon

[subtle tundra]

nothing outrageous

[spice surge]

What?

[dawn seal]

with adds routes packs

[earnest remnant]

you could skip the add phases

[radiant raven]

Even Stonevault, out of interest? I've found that to be an absolute pain point but I play at a much lower level so maybe it's fine at high end.

[royal lantern]

motherlode

[subtle tundra]

when coordonated, the dungeon is very good

[subtle tundra]

really good dungeon

[royal lantern]

and mechagon for the 40000th time for some reason

[radiant raven]

Fair point, yeah, I can see it

[dawn seal]

why isnt there a cassino

dungeon

next season

[subtle tundra]

cause its the raid

[radiant raven]

it's the raid

[dawn seal]

its literally hotel raid

[radiant raven]

we fight a slot machine

[golden loom]

cause the raid is the casino

[dawn seal]

[radiant raven]

we're in goblin vegas

[dawn seal]

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/casino-oldpeople-oldpeopleonslots-slots-vegas-gif-27586086

[radiant raven]

depressing

[subtle tundra]

it did get changes so it will be a bit different. i dont hate workshop just last boss being single target survival slop

[radiant raven]

Workshop is my fav BfA dungeon. But I am curious how it's gonna feel without the BfA affix

[royal lantern]

my problem with workshop is honestly

why workshop AGAIN lol

[subtle tundra]

another dungeon of "can we defeat the last boss!"

[spice surge]

How

[earnest remnant]

shroud

[subtle tundra]

we've had it return once already, buddy

[spice surge]

Are you talking about sethralis

[dawn seal]

are they bringing brawlers guild

[radiant raven]

I wasn't playing during S4 of uh. SL? S3?

[dawn seal]

didnt they said they would do something about it this season

[royal lantern]

supposed to return somewhere in TWW

[earnest remnant]

is that not the temple you were talking about?

[dawn seal]

yeah

I wanna see it

[spice surge]

Nah jade temple

[radiant raven]

same

[iron carbon]

Jade

[earnest remnant]

ah mb then

[dawn seal]

las vegas

[earnest remnant]

disregard the last 5min

[subtle tundra]

i dont remember, the dungeon was fine without the affix to skip mobs

[radiant raven]

Cool

[spice surge]

Thats why i was so confused

[dawn seal]

do we have amega dungeon

[radiant raven]

I'm excited to play it again though. Dog boss was alwasy fun

[subtle tundra]

bro dont get me started on temple of sethralis

[radiant raven]

Not yet but i bet it comes in 11.1.5

[dawn seal]

oooo

[spice surge]

We got a new dungeon though

[subtle tundra]

dont think ive ever had less fun in a dungeon that temple

[spice surge]

So maybe no new mega dungeon

[radiant raven]

Yeah true

[dawn seal]

sadgers

[subtle tundra]

including vortex

[spice surge]

Maybe they do 2x regular dungeons instead

[dawn seal]

no hard mode :(

I want hardm ode

[radiant raven]

That's a good point, Eleem, yeah.

[golden loom]

I think next patch already has new dungeon confirmed also

so 2x regulars

[dawn seal]

yoo

ad 10 more dungeons

[radiant raven]

A new normal dungeon per season is cool imo

[royal lantern]

tfw a dungeon has a bug that they literally ignore until it happens in the MDI, and then just remove it from the MDI instead of fixing it

[radiant raven]

lmao

[spice surge]

The 11.1 dungeon is allegedly good too

[radiant raven]

Hell yeah

[dawn seal]

ooooooooo

whats 11.2

[radiant raven]

Double hell yeah

[dawn seal]

when is that

[radiant raven]

in the future.

[golden loom]

patch after 11.1

[dawn seal]

oh

OHH

its season 3

huh

[radiant raven]

We're getting 11.1 soon, so then we'll have 11.1.5 and 11.1.7 and then 11.2 with S3, yeah

[dawn seal]

ohh

[strong wigeon]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[radiant raven]

Big numbers is always major content and a raid and a season, so it's easy to know when the big gameplay is coming

And then sometimes we get the fun curveballs in the x.5/7 (I think Aug was in 10.1.5?)

[subtle tundra]

they are cool cause they usually influence the meta

which i like

[royal lantern]

"fun curveballs"->aug

bro

[radiant raven]

It was fun for someone

My point stands!

[subtle tundra]

dont think so

not a single aug player enjoys it

im pretty sure

[radiant raven]

I'm sure there's someone.

[subtle tundra]

nope

i checked

[radiant raven]

Damn. Well point unstanded. Fallen. Collapsed.

[subtle tundra]

they pretend they like it cause they dont want to play wow

but they are addicted

so they play the least effort

[radiant raven]

I wonder what TWW's will be? Shaman tank is probably too on the nose

But who knows

[spice surge]

There are people who like aug, but the people who rerolled aug to get into keys are usually not part of that group

[subtle tundra]

im 95% sure next season is aug season too

[royal lantern]

the evoker discord has a AugPrison emote for a reason

[subtle tundra]

rn they are tuned high on dps, and their utility is very high when done right

[royal lantern]

we never had a evoker that played that Class for more then a couple months lmao

[subtle tundra]

infinite stops

[radiant raven]

We had an Aug in our heroic guild and then he quit the game so yeah, fair point

[royal lantern]

its like

they either stop cus aug is bullshit

or they get poached cus somebody that actually Plays and STAYS on aug is giga rare lol

[subtle tundra]

being able to output max dps while also paying attention to stops/casts is very valuable
that means you dont need to have a gingi caliber player to do it

[spice surge]

Ye but do they have 45 seconds of silence?

We will still need to give up a decent chunk of dps for iron wire next season too

[subtle tundra]

im not pushing next season so idc!

ping me when assa changes its identity

[spice surge]

Sub season fr fr

[subtle tundra]

enjoy your rupturing to not lose tier set

[royal lantern]

based

varas is free

[subtle tundra]

my opinion will once again not matter

[spice surge]

Ye but then big numbers when you press cds

[subtle tundra]

👽

[spice surge]

I like big numbers and i cannot lie

They also fixed some ancient bugs, so its more playable

[radiant raven]

Same. Sub season, sub season!!!

[royal lantern]

you know the rules eleem

if it does high dmg = wtf that gameplay is great

if it does low dmg = wtf that gameplay is absolute bs

[subtle tundra]

i dislike current assa regardless of dps

[spice surge]

Poison blade flurry spec

[golden loom]

Wooow pressing these buttons is sooo boring... Until I look at details and see 20 billion dps

[radiant raven]

that's a lot of DPS

You should donate some to your needy fellow rogues

[royal lantern]

we have

blade flurry

poison bladeflurry

and hero talent blade flurry

[radiant raven]

More.

[golden loom]

Why is normal blade flurry the worst one

[subtle tundra]

sub is gonna be more of a dot spec than assa...

(already is)

[royal lantern]

because blade flurry can grow out of controll ridicolous quick

and its not the worst one lol

thats some yellow name take

[worldly sail]

colorblindness

THIS is yellow

[radiant raven]

I want Shadow Blade Flurry...

[worldly sail]

they should remove every sub 80apm spec from the game tbh tbh

[royal lantern]

that you?

[worldly sail]

this me

never had any issues with hand pain when gaming

and if anything its in the mouse hand from always holding right click

[royal lantern]

how old are you

[worldly sail]

late 20s

[royal lantern]

it literally is the mouse hand where it has the highest chance of developing btw

[radiant raven]

Gotta do proper hand exercises before clicking on skeletons in a video game.

[royal lantern]

like, CTS comes from repetetive small movments for extended periods

[golden loom]

I used to have some pain during my most degen league grinding but then I started playing more casual games more and now I have 0 pain

[worldly sail]

hand exercises from Dr. Levi

[golden loom]

Dr Levi the goat fr

[royal lantern]

yeha, you should maybe look into some stretches tbh, that can creep up REALLY fast

like, you can get severe problem in a couple weeks, even if everything was fine before that

[radiant raven]

Piano exercises are good for it.

[golden loom]

was like 18 or 19 the last time I had any problems with it

maybe my skelton is fully developed now

[radiant raven]

I'm getting cyber hands the second i'm able

[worldly sail]

my hands and wrists were forged into 100% titanium from playing osu!

[radiant raven]

https://tenor.com/view/ghost-in-the-shell-keyboard-gif-7519694

Gimme this

[golden loom]

I guess also playing a bunch of league and runescape where its a lot more mouse movements made me used to it

400 days of clicking in a point and click java game from 2000

[subtle tundra]

wanna throw cyber hands

[radiant raven]

Hahaha

Sure, but we're just gonna throw the disconnected hands at each other from a distance

Cyber slap fight

[royal lantern]

man, look around

you get cyber hands, and then Elon turns them off because you didnt follow him on twitter or shit like that

[subtle tundra]

didnt pay my sub

mid wank disconnection

...

[royal lantern]

nah, it just rips it off mid wank

https://tenor.com/view/growing-mushroom-penis-tear-off-rip-off-gif-10310058799753331399

[subtle tundra]

[dawn seal]

Did whispy do any ptr testinf

[royal lantern]

ofc

[dawn seal]

Oo

Was it on stream I missed it

Does anyone remember the day or week

So I can look it yp

[marsh fjord]

With master assasin talented into the ST build wouldnt i want to vanish 6 seconds remaining on KB?

[dawn seal]

On ur dm window

I believe

[spice spire]

Yes

[dawn seal]

U dm shiv kb

Shiv again at 8

Vanish garote at 6

[golden loom]

🤓 well if you are playing fatebound you vanish for 2nd coldblooded envenom

[marsh fjord]

No playing DT

but thanks guys ❤️

[spice spire]

If you’re playing fatebound outside of two fights I’ll eat your ass

[golden loom]

havent played fatebound since this happend when I wanted to parse

[spice spire]

[royal lantern]

rng better bozo

[marsh fjord]

If you get a darkest night proc in your KB window. i know you need to go to 7 combo points. but do you just env less? because it takes more globals to build?

[golden loom]

90%+ of your poison applications are from autoattacks, envenom casts dont really matter in that way

[marsh fjord]

So i just make sure i 8 seconds remaining i shiv and 6 seconds before i vanish

and im gucci?

[golden loom]

yeah pretty much

[marsh fjord]

oke cool

[timid bramble]

Shiv is the last part of abilities I'm trying to comprehend

[marsh fjord]

because im looking at the opener and i'm trying to fit in 2 enevoms before 8 seconds and i'm not making it.

[timid bramble]

I don't understand it so I'm studying it today 😂

This rotation is so complex I love it

I'm sure it'll just be muscle memory but I want to make sure the flow is right

Same @marsh fjord

[golden loom]

if you are thinking about raid, shiv is just a nature/bleed damage amplifier and with 2 charges of 8 seconds each, by using it before you cast kingsbane and again when it runs out, you get to cover the entire Kingsbane duration with the increased nature damage from shiv

[timid bramble]

So it stacks the DMG or just the timer?

Like it extends it

[golden loom]

nah its just flat damage increase

[timid bramble]

Ok 🆗

"Slow paced and easy to play Rogue spec"

Who wrote that 😂

It doesn't feel slow

[golden loom]

you just want to make sure you have shiv on the target for the end of kingsbane, because of the ramping damage of kingsbane

later ticks of kingsbane does more damage -> shiv damage increase is applied to a larger number -> big damage

[marsh fjord]

Im pretty sure if you run the m+ build you use shiv on the last 8 seconds right? because you only have 1 charge?

[golden loom]

correct

[marsh fjord]

I've been practicing sin for a few days. it seems complicated at the start but it's really straight forward after that

when you try it for a bit

[clever sapphire]

i mean, what is there to test...

[spice spire]

Raid bosses sometimes

[clever sapphire]

ah fair enough, i never spoil myself there so didnt even think about that

[timid bramble]

Ok so no shiv after mark in aoe

[spice spire]

Whenever there’s raid tearing be tests

[clever sapphire]

tbh in aoe there isnt much of a point to shiv, it only makes you do more dmg to your main target

[timid bramble]

Okay so helps with prio target got it

Thanks 😊👍

[golden loom]

yep

[timid bramble]

So like dawn mini bosses..etc

[clever sapphire]

anytime you want to kill a mob faster

[timid bramble]

But not huge in normal no Prio target packs

Perfect

[clever sapphire]

i usually just save it to soothe in case there is a mob like that

like gb big guys

[golden loom]

honestly the only value I feel like I get out of shiving in m+ aoe is that it uses a tea charge

[clever sapphire]

oh ye, i rarely ever used tea in aoe because i dont have it macrod

[timid bramble]

I have 3 classes at 3150io.
This spec is super fun. I played outlaw but felt hollow if that makes any sense.

I'm excited to get this guy ready in case for a main alt

That was my 2nd question. Do we macro mark and kingsbane

[golden loom]

no

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[golden loom]

this is a macro you can use though

[timid bramble]

Gangster. Appreciated

[clever sapphire]

they are both on the gcd and you want a shiv inbetween the 2 casts anyways (with 2 shivs atleast)

[golden loom]

you macro pots/trinket to deathmark however

[timid bramble]

Wow rogue class discord isn't as toxic as others lol

[timid bramble]

Why u got to rub it in my face that Grace hasn't dropped yet 😭

[slate crown]

[golden loom]

just get the drop

[timid bramble]

Ok I'll try staring at monitor harder

But for real I'm baffled by this statement on guide "slow paced and easy to play Rogue spec"

Outlaw was way easier

😂

I guess it is easy if you aren't trying to min Max uptimes

[clever sapphire]

outlaw is easier to get the hang of i guess, but you are punished by making small mistakes

missing gcds and whatnot

[golden loom]

sin is deffo not gcd capped in single target atleast 😄

[desert crest]

Trust me assa will feel easier than outlaw when u learn it proper

[clever sapphire]

well what i meant more is, outlaw you always gotta smash for max dps, assa its fine to miss a few gcds (or atleast it feels less punishing to miss a few)

[timid bramble]

Yeah that I agree with so far

I hit 80 guys and got to 590 with a 4set in 30 mins through Warbound items I had. Went to heroic raid and got both daggers

Am I lucky

[clever sapphire]

no, people that got week 1 and week 2 myth skardyns are lucky

[vast loom]

anytime someone says outlaw is easy, im like 90% sure they dont realize how many mistakes they are actually making

[timid bramble]

Happened on my survival Hunter. 😂 But I want it again now 😭

[dawn seal]

I AMMA TEST GRACE TONIGHT

[clever sapphire]

i got it a month ago, so now im a happy little rogue

[dawn seal]

I AMMA SLAP ALL OF MY TEAM ON DPS AND RAIN SUPREME

[fallow canopy]

easy there mr president

[timid bramble]

There's a WeakAura package that babysit a bit. Lik "hold hold" .."use now"

That helped me pick up what was going on lol

[dawn seal]

I got excited sorry ...

[golden loom]

Dead to boss autoattack on pull

[timid bramble]

What made the other rogue specs randomly catch up in ST raid dmg

[vast loom]

we have cheat for that

[clever sapphire]

is that close to like hekili?

[timid bramble]

And do you guys curse at the pug tank when he chain pulls and vanish isn't up .....

[timid bramble]

Hekili is scuffed man

[vast loom]

no, its not a huge deal

[golden loom]

!stealth

[timid bramble]

!stealth

[vast loom]

!restealth

[golden loom]

!restealth

[timid bramble]

Cheated me bro

[golden loom]

HUH

[timid bramble]

I want a refund

[golden loom]

Where the fk is the command

[timid bramble]

😭

[vast loom]

@slate crown help i bet yo know the !stealth commadn

[timid bramble]

I'm dying laughing

[golden loom]

!re-stealth

[vast loom]

!vanish

[prisma monolith]

Vanish->Ambush during cooldowns with Darkest Night up has two main benefits:

• Getting more mark uptime by reapplying when it's down
• Consuming Darkest Night then puts you from 3 stacks of the mark down to 2 since the mark is already applied

As of September 13th with the Echoing Reprimand Fix, that second part is broken. Blizzard inadvertantly added a bug where you cannot consume mark stacks while darkest night is active. This will hopefully get resolved quickly as it is quite impactful. Until that time, you might want to consider taking improved garrote in your single target build (instead of 1 point of vicious venoms, or instead of improved poison). You do not have to do this, and if you would like to continue to play without improved garrote, you would simply hold onto your vanish in case you drop the mark. Once the bug is fixed you would go back to vanish->ambush.

[timid bramble]

!Stealthmenow

[vast loom]

thats not even it

F

[golden loom]

The vanish one is not the one

!chainpulling

[clever sapphire]

anyways, chainpulls are not as much of an issue as you would think

[timid bramble]

!chainpull

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote is roughly 10-12% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon
• While Without a Trace can allow for better vanish timings, the difference in damage provided is at most replacing a non-stealth opener with a stealth opener (you aren't necessarily getting "added" casts, just "better" casts)
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[timid bramble]

There we go

Haha the newbie got it

[dawn seal]

That's other rogue

[clever sapphire]

used to explaining it aight?

[dawn seal]

After whispyr told me to not shadow strp boss on pull

I just wait till someone hits boss

I figured I was also using tempered potion in stealrh

[clever sapphire]

i shadowstep to my tank thats in melee range anyways

[dawn seal]

Which was breaking it

And making me not put death stalkers mark

[timid bramble]

I get that but isn't it better to just tap rupture twice in stealth to spread instead of GCD tab targeting

[clever sapphire]

macro pot to DM, problem solved

[dawn seal]

Ye

I did

[timid bramble]

Or is that still good cause it's active dmg

[golden loom]

You open on the boss from the front??

[dawn seal]

All the tim3

[balmy condor]

that's weird, try again?

[dawn seal]

I am a gambler at hearth

[vast loom]

!stealth

[prisma monolith]

Stealth can break from:

• Evoker legendary buff expiring and bouncing back to the Evoker.
• Ominous Chromatic Essence trinket on buff gain
• Voice of the Silent Star when wearing it yourself
• Misterweaver soothing mist when talented into Unison
• Blossom of Amirdrassil (trinket) initial hot dropping/spreading
• Vicious brand (Signet trinket self damage)

[balmy condor]

hm

moment

[dawn seal]

I like the idea that boss might parry me

[clever sapphire]

it feels better and it saves a few gcd-s sure, but not getting a restealth is much less of an impact than people make it out

[dawn seal]

Can boss parry my deathmark

[golden loom]

If my ambush got parried and mark didnt get applied I would break my monitor

[clever sapphire]

no, but it can parry your KB

[clever sapphire]

well, i havent seen a boss besides court for quite a while now

and that boss is so massive, im usually somewhere on the side

[golden loom]

Ah shit im sorry

[balmy condor]

@golden loom okay try restealth

[golden loom]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

try !stealth

[clever sapphire]

it was !chainpull

[golden loom]

!stealth

[prisma monolith]

Stealth can break from:

• Evoker legendary buff expiring and bouncing back to the Evoker.
• Ominous Chromatic Essence trinket on buff gain
• Voice of the Silent Star when wearing it yourself
• Misterweaver soothing mist when talented into Unison
• Blossom of Amirdrassil (trinket) initial hot dropping/spreading
• Vicious brand (Signet trinket self damage)

[balmy condor]

damn

my troll

is not working

!update

[prisma monolith]

Updated.

[balmy condor]

okay do it now

[golden loom]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

try !nostealth

[slate crown]

!vibecheck

Fuck

[clever sapphire]

!nostealth

[prisma monolith]

try !chain

[golden loom]

!nostealth

[prisma monolith]

try !chain

[storm forum]

!stealth

[clever sapphire]

!chain

[golden loom]

Fuck you moroes

[clever sapphire]

bot bugged

fix

[balmy condor]

we broke it

!chain

aiaiai

[worldly sail]

overworking the bot

[timid bramble]

!chainpull

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote is roughly 10-12% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon
• While Without a Trace can allow for better vanish timings, the difference in damage provided is at most replacing a non-stealth opener with a stealth opener (you aren't necessarily getting "added" casts, just "better" casts)
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[worldly sail]

[slate crown]

STOP BULLYING MOROES BEAN

[clever sapphire]

!chain

i think chain isnt a command

whispyr got us

[golden loom]

Moroes should return to karazhan

[timid bramble]

Hey guys thanks for the help so far.

[balmy condor]

I'm staring at it

right now

[storm forum]

!cheesecake

[balmy condor]

I just made it

[storm forum]

!mpreg

[balmy condor]

idk whatever

troll failed anyway

unlucky

[clever sapphire]

its gonna work one day

[storm forum]

!whispyr

[clever sapphire]

randomly

[balmy condor]

!update

[prisma monolith]

Updated.

[final star]

!kissonthenape

[storm forum]

!chain

[balmy condor]

anyway, the reason !stealth doesn't work

is because that's already a command

so it had to get renamed

to !chainpull

and now we know

[subtle tundra]

yea..

[storm forum]

What does !stealth do?

[golden loom]

This just shows how little stealth matters

Not even moroes cares

[balmy condor]

this thing

[timid bramble]

Okay so In chain pulls I'm just tab targeting to get rupture on 5

[balmy condor]

nah

just gotta get enough energy to maintain your gcds

and then spam env for spatter

manually tabbing that many ruptures ends up being absolute aids

[timid bramble]

Yeah that's what I was assuming

That's why I brought up chain pulls sucking 😂 .

[balmy condor]

you hold vanish for them

[clever sapphire]

usually, assuming the tank is bad, you can just sit back a bit and drop aggro as the pull dies (even if the tank is already in combat)

[timid bramble]

I actually noticed that

Ok so basically we have to work twice as hard lol

[balmy condor]

the chance that you end up in a chain while also not having vanish while also it being such a terrible pull that you don't have the previous pack to bank energy off of while also lasting long enough for it to actually matter

is insanely low

but generally rupture doesn't really do all that much damage on its own, garrotes outside of stealth suck too

so like 2-3 ruptures just for the energy and you're vibing

just spatter and go

[timid bramble]

Okay lovely 🌹🤩

Am I a rogue now guys

Can I be part of the crew

Am I a meta slave

[balmy condor]

we were meta for about half a season

and then enhance shaman exists

[timid bramble]

😆

[clever sapphire]

afaik, fdk/shamy/dudu is the meta

[timid bramble]

You think fdk will remain for next seasey

[clever sapphire]

i got no clue about fdk im not gonna lie

boomie seems op in aoe

enha is also pretty damn strong from what i heard

but, heroic week tuning is still awaiting

so anything is possible

[timid bramble]

Yeah that's true

[tropic jewel]

The only thing I See every Week in ptr dps comparising is no changes and bugged Tier Sets for rogue

But surly There will be changes kekw

[spice surge]

If it aint broke dont fix it, assa in general doesnt need any changes really

A better tier would be welcomed but assa currently has a terrible tier and is good anyway so

[strange sleet]

wasn't enha meta pretty much from the start tho? I feel like assa was meta because warrior was the strongest tank and Iron Wire is very good to have with no prot pally maybe? Also assa got nerfed in ST no?

[balmy condor]

yeh sure

we got buffed btw

caustic got nerfed

[strange sleet]

oh okok

!chainpull

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote is roughly 10-12% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon
• While Without a Trace can allow for better vanish timings, the difference in damage provided is at most replacing a non-stealth opener with a stealth opener (you aren't necessarily getting "added" casts, just "better" casts)
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[strange sleet]

I don't like this xD I do think stealth benefits are as important as I think 😦

[balmy condor]

okay well

doesn't really matter if you like it or not, it's math

[strange sleet]

Idk, I do way higher DPS when not chainpulling tho

Because we also lose GCD's and Master Assasin

[spice surge]

You dont lose gcds

[golden loom]

theres a big difference between good and bad chainpulling

[strange sleet]

We don't?

[balmy condor]

well, maybe you do

[spice surge]

If you killed of the solo guy with tons of health

[golden loom]

good chainpulling is very nice for sin rogue cause you would get to go into a new pack with scent of blood already up

[spice surge]

You would hit him with mutilates and then go out of energy

If you chain pull him, you just keep ruptures up and keep spamming

Its not opening with stealth VS opening without stealth
Its opening with stealth due to spending a bunch of time single/duo targeting down a mob VS opening without stealth with ruptures already up

Not to mention you have 4 other people in your group that likely doesnt care about dropping combat and the key goes faster

[strange sleet]

Ok, so I guess it depends on the way the mobs get chainpulled as uwucutegirl says then. Because what you said makes sense but in practice it never happens to me

[strange sleet]

Yeah I'm not arguing about that tho. Just specific to rogue

In practice what usually happens to me it's that the new pack gets pulled when the previous pack is with 1 or 2 mobs left at 10% hp

[golden loom]

in that situation try to kidney a mob to keep it in place, hang back while killing it and you can easily re-stealth

[strange sleet]

So I lose gcd's rupturing, and FoK'ing more than I shoyld cause I'm missin MA

[golden loom]

also just play double vanish and the situations this would be a problem should never happen

[spice surge]

#assassination message

Thats literally what i was talking about

Just like the command says, it feels bad, but it isnt actually bad numerically

[broken chasm]

garrote and rupture only cool down for less than 8-5 sec to apply pandemic in ST?

[strange sleet]

But those mobs last like 3 seconds

[spice surge]

Then just kill them and stealth?

What

If theyre that low you can just finish them of yourself and then stealth

Doesnt matter that your tank has pulled more mobs

[strange sleet]

I don't think that's always the case but maybe yeah

Maybe just skill issue

[spice surge]

If thats not the case then youre gonna have ruptures up at the start of the next pack

Becuase they live for a while

[strange sleet]

idk, I know I do quite a bit less when I get chainpulled. Like 200k less overall easy

SO I guess it's skill issue

I'll try to improve that tho

[timid bramble]

i found out the solution is to state at start of PUGs

"Hello tank, dont chain pull please appreciate you for being a nooblet"

[strange sleet]

yeah yeah haha

that's what I do

[timid bramble]

this is always the answer

JK i just asked the same question as u

15 mins before

so double vanish in raid isnt suggested i see

[real pike]

cause Details only shows your damage when in combat

logs will show over the entire dungeon duration

[timid bramble]

if you click the name of dungeon on bottom of details

itll show the same as logs

[desert crest]

No it will not

[timid bramble]

it does for me, and i asked in the details discord

straight from creator.

maybe not an exact match to logs

but Overall DMG vs selecting the dungeon dmg is diference

have u noticed that?

[drifting basin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19ui7jRFO8I

anyone seen this before

died laughing

[timid bramble]

like when the dungeon is over, and you click "overall damage" vs clicking "Necrotic wake 14"

shows different numbers

[drifting basin]

guy lands from being downstairs, pops his cooldowns and gets sent down again

[strange sleet]

btw, is there any place where I can look this up sir? Would this situation be simmable with raidbot's advanced mode? And if so, do you know if there are any guides on advanced mode of SimulationCraft?

[desert crest]

We must somehow have different versions then

[timid bramble]

Quote from creator :

"overall is damage / time in combat
dungeon overall is damage / m+ total time"

yours show the same number?

For Overall vs Name of dungeon

[spice surge]

Unless you explicitly select the setting that shows total m+ timer damage

[balmy condor]

You can set up custom fight styles yes but it’s quite involved

[spice surge]

Its gonna show the same yes

[timid bramble]

ahh okay mine was auto selected i guess

I like it so im not guessing what its going to show on logs.

[desert crest]

Yeah sounds like a much better option ngl

[dawn seal]

https://tenor.com/view/gamba-gif-25945486

[spice surge]

Its still not gonna show stuff like aug correctly on details

[strange sleet]

Yeah I guess. Do you know of any guides or resources on that topic? I'm not in a rush to learn it but I feel it would be a useful skill to have

[balmy condor]

GitHub wiki is very in depth

[strange sleet]

Ok, I'll take a look

thanks

[dawn seal]

quick question if I wanna add a kaching sound to every ambush proc on whispyrs wea kaura do I just add a trigger to that one

on the list

[slate crown]

Does whispyr's WA have anything that shows up when blindside procs already?

[dawn seal]

I think so

I find that one and add a sound on trigger right

[balmy condor]

I think not

[dawn seal]

oh

[spice spire]

Pretty sure blindside proc is base

[slate crown]

Yeah so like

[dawn seal]

how hard would it be to add it

[slate crown]

Just to fully clarify

You'd only be doing this because you want the sound

[dawn seal]

yes sorry I have mental problems like that

[slate crown]

no that's fine

[solar wyvern]

Kaching on blindside sounds kinda lit ngl

[dawn seal]

its pure joy fun kinda thing

[slate crown]

I just wanted to clarify

[slate crown]

easy

[spice spire]

I’m not a weak aura dude.
That is @slate crown (and she’s extremely helpful)

[dawn seal]

ooo

yes I aremember her she is amazin helped me on my sub sectech stuff

[slate crown]

You just need to find a place to add it. You could create it yourself as a standalone

Or you could add it to an existing aura

[dawn seal]

lemme see loging in atm loading screen

[slate crown]

Personally my aura has it on my Energy Bar and glows the bar when it's procced. You can add the trigger to the Energy bar if you'd like

[balmy condor]

Me when I’m trying to separate the water and milk solids from butter but the heat on my pot is too high and I end up burning the milk solids, rendering them useless for any subsequent cooking

[slate crown]

So just go to Whispyr's energy bar, add trigger, make it for aura blindside

Then in Conditions, add a condition to the end of the list that is If Trigger (# for the new trigger) Active, Play sound

That's what I'd do so it stays compact, but you could also just make a singular aura outside of whispyr's pack too which does something similar

[spice spire]

What happened to GN?

[slate crown]

The latter is probably better for future proofing because you wouldn't have to redo the change with every Whispyr update

[dawn seal]

yeah

[balmy condor]

Jorkin the jerkin

[slate crown]

but it means an extra one-off somewhere you have to manage

[dawn seal]

so do I sayt new aura

[slate crown]

Sure

[spice spire]

Pics?

[slate crown]

Actually, there is a new feature with WAs called Empty Region

You can use for this

[dawn seal]

ohh

[balmy condor]

Have to win our bet

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

Just like me fr

[dawn seal]

what is that one

google is being weird I tried googling this

[slate crown]

I'll show, give a sec

[dawn seal]

❤️

[dawn seal]

OMG

[sullen temple]

Im just returning to WoW after a long time.....from what I can see doesnt look like Sin will be getting many changes in 11.1 or am i missing something?

[dawn seal]

👀 how new is this wa feature

I havent updated it for a month

just updating it

[slate crown]

The Empty region is relatively new

but

It's not required for this

You could have done what I showed with an icon or text aura and set them to transparant for ages

[dawn seal]

[golden loom]

You are close to correct, we have gotten 0 changes 😎

[dawn seal]

OOO HUGE

lemme test this bad boi

[restive raptor]

rogue still bugged on ptr?

[dawn seal]

if I wanna do the same for darkestnight consumed

do I choose the since stack lost

🤔 as trigger if

thats dumb nvm I amma do it when I get it

lmao

[slate crown]

Well for knowledge sake, I would do this on Combat Log -> Spell Aura Removed

[marble hemlock]

check the latest pin

[dawn seal]

wooo did it thanks lisonna

[tidal laurel]

sup peeps just wanted to say thank you to the crew on helping me grow in the ways of the assassination rogues. finally getting comfortable in my rotations and doing proper numbers. and as was suggested before. it was more of my last few runs being too long in the dungeons.

[slate crown]

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