assassination

[proven jasper]

[woven shore]

How you entered nzoth by chasing the boss before him into the room

[proven jasper]

Not even half the issue

[thorn thorn]

Make Kingsbane Great Again

[woven shore]

That was so fucking cool

[subtle tundra]

"back"?

it was capped

[dapper cradle]

You’d penetrate the Nzothussy

[proven jasper]

Id just like my spec with bleeds to maybe do damage with bleeds

[fallow canopy]

Dots are prob never gonna be strong again

[golden loom]

You dont notice bleed damage until you check details but you see big fat 9m envenom crits

[proven jasper]

I miss big garrote damage

[jaunty sky]

where was the cap in legion?

[spice surge]

Its 99 stacks, just like in DF

It just wasnt mentioned in the tooltip

[proven jasper]

It was 100 in df and then capped again to 50 right near the end

[spice surge]

But you couldnt really reach it, so i guess it wasnt really capped per se

[bright cipher]

and how many stacks are now?

[golden loom]

50

[proven jasper]

You cap it in like 3 globals tho lmao

[thorn thorn]

Its 50 but during DM you reach it very easily

Even outside of DM you cap it within a few seconds

Its not even worth tracking or worrying about

[spice surge]

Turns out when you have 2x the poisons and every poison gets duplicated you stack it faster

[thorn thorn]

Who woulda guessed

[bright cipher]

wouldn't that be good?

[thorn thorn]

It would be

If it wasnt nerfed by 30% during TWW alpha

Probably nerfed cuz of Spatter but I think they just dont want DoTs to be good

[golden loom]

Idk why you would want it to be "uncapped" when its dependent on rng to stack tho

[bright cipher]

Dots are very tricky little shits

[runic hinge]

Source?

[thorn thorn]

Kingsbane is a weird one since its only on one target

And it lives by spatter for its aoe

[proven jasper]

I mean them giving MR to aff just makes me believe they cant balance dots

Even though i like MR i also like dots doing big damage

[thorn thorn]

Imo it should just have aoe innately and spatter can be yeeted into the void

[golden loom]

Werent dots in like wotlk/cata omega omega broooken

[bright cipher]

more or less

[golden loom]

Abd they decided they dont want to see that shit

[thorn thorn]

They dont want to experiment with DoT balance clearly

[bright cipher]

the game was very different then, m+ didn't exist and for exemple

[thorn thorn]

Since they have zero falloff the only real method would be to give them a soft cap after X targets of some sort

[bright cipher]

you would have an spec with dots like aff just being absolutely garbage in single target

[thorn thorn]

Or just make them weak

[bright cipher]

but rly fucking nuts in 4 targets

[thorn thorn]

It got crazy with Shadow in DF though with psychic link

[golden loom]

Like imagine playing warlock on a multitarget fight if dots are omega broken, sounds like the easiest shit imaginable

[bright cipher]

affliction and destruction still have shades of this (as they gain more resources from dots with more targets) but the gap is smaller

[thorn thorn]

Sin is in the same boat

Barely

But is in the same boat

[golden loom]

Yeah exactly, it has its niche but its not omega overtuned

[thorn thorn]

The easy solution for DoTs for them has been just sticking them as a resource generator

Which still has issues

Because for sin at least you get more energy than you can possibly spend in aoe

And in ST being starved of energy is a feature

[bright cipher]

TLDR is that like "old wow" blizzard made strenghts and weaknesses much more extreme

[golden loom]

Which feels shit, imagine if they today released a fire raid that was immune vs fire mage

[runic hinge]

Except not in raid cause I don’t feel starved then lol

[thorn thorn]

You arent spamming mutilate nonstop in raw ST

But most fights this raid have aoe of some sort

[bright cipher]

The Monk TC(babylonius) have a spreadsheet who measure % average of spec performing across each expansion, and it does have some flaws..but it still paints some interesting things

[thorn thorn]

What is it measuring as performance

[bright cipher]

https://i.imgur.com/DRK43zP.png like, if you notice, WOD the % values are wildly bigger than they are now.

[golden loom]

You also have ST talents instead of aoe talents that help with energy in raid compared to m+ st

[thorn thorn]

Just damage output?

[bright cipher]

damage yeah

and you know what is the funniest thing

[thorn thorn]

Oh

[bright cipher]

see warlock right there?

see how each spec is bellow?

in WOD

https://i.imgur.com/X3yRnwR.png the class performance on the other hand

[thorn thorn]

Yea class balance is super close nowadays

All things considered

Excluding a few outliers...

[bright cipher]

this happened because each spec of warlock would have very extreme niches

so while on average across all fights they would be bellow

if you picked the spec for each appropriate fight it would be the most insane

[thorn thorn]

Bless Babylonius

[bright cipher]

https://i.imgur.com/Cr6AmnQ.png he also measure time spent above average

[golden loom]

Mage

[bright cipher]

but do have in mind, there is quite some criticisms on the methods/and dataset but i still thing its interesting to see, you just have to hold a grain of salt (and yes, warlocks are the king of raid)

[subtle tundra]

based on data, playing shadow priest is pog

[golden loom]

Tbh it must be a nightmare trying to balance all the classes/specs

[thorn thorn]

Always has been

It only gets worse as they become complex and they add more

Thats when they start doing goofy shit

Like nerfing specs because of externals

And other nonsense

[golden loom]

But they kinda have to add stuff or people complain aswell

[thorn thorn]

But so far in DF and TWW so far the balance is pretty good

[golden loom]

Its just a big fucking snowball

[thorn thorn]

The real headache begins after the conclusion of the world soul saga

[spice surge]

Yeah besides stormbringer in m+

[bright cipher]

the balance on "new wow" is much better than on old wow

[spice surge]

But raid is good as usual

[thorn thorn]

By that point people have had roughly 6 years with the DF talent trees and the hero talents making specs play a certain way

And taking all of that away suddenly, or just constantly adding on to it is a headache for the people of the future

[thorn thorn]

Yea shamans are an obvious outlier

In almost all content

[bright cipher]

if you look at warcraftlogs statistics you will see that like

[thorn thorn]

ele shamans still god rolling oneshotting people in pvp

Very cool

[bright cipher]

the swings between the olde rexpansions and the more recent ones is big

[spice surge]

Raid is still fine, because you cant bank 3 tempests before bosses'

[bright cipher]

the thing is...TWW S1 was very messy

[golden loom]

What do you mean? You dont think fury warrior being 30% better than the 2nd best class in classic for the entire game is okay?

[thorn thorn]

Messy is certainly a word to describe it

TWW so far has just been a nightmare mess of bugs and balancing problems (usually caused by bugs)

Although most people predicted that S1 was just gonna be beta tesing phase 2

And it basically has been

[bright cipher]

It means that if you look at statistics on warcraftlogs for expansions like wrath/cataclysm, the score gap between top to bottom is much bigger then, than it is now

and you had specs who were very non functional even in pve

[golden loom]

Yee I was being sarcastic, I agree with you 😄

[thorn thorn]

Yeh

At least now the specs function

Even if they are spaghetti

[bright cipher]

the thing is..TWW1 is cursed

[thorn thorn]

Extremely

I think it needed a bit more time in the oven personally but I was also sick of DF

[bright cipher]

like the amount of insane bugs who affected performance is very much an outlier compared to SLor DF (who still had their bugs, but less so)

i know hero talents who currently don't work for a spec or another

i mean 1 node, not the entire thing

[thorn thorn]

Flameshaper

Still being unplayably bad for Dev

And unplayable in M+ for Pres

And a couple of others probably

[bright cipher]

i don't even mean in the sense..of it being bad? i mean it literally does nothing

[thorn thorn]

Ya thats Flameshaper for Dev

It does nothing useful

Ontop of also being undertuned

[bright cipher]

the talents function, i mean they talent does not function

like not implemented

[thorn thorn]

Oh thats what you meant

what hero talents still have non functional talents

[bright cipher]

https://i.imgur.com/wkMZMQz.png

it works on destro because they fixed it, but it still don't work on demo

[thorn thorn]

Wait

Is that why we run Kerxan

Because that shit doesnt work still

[bright cipher]

nah, in the simulation we have it working and they are equal

so kerxan is just more practical even if infernal machine worked ingame

https://i.imgur.com/EOe58yY.png see this talent?

i have tested it, and it don't proc a single time on nexus princess and i suspect its because it don't proc on magical damage

or maybe because of some other thing

[thorn thorn]

Attacks tells me melee hits

which turns it into a certified pvp talent

[bright cipher]

except the version of it form shadowlands who was a conduit power worked on magical damage

[golden loom]

I bet if you walk up and get meleed by kyveza it instantly works

[thorn thorn]

you also probably die

[golden loom]

10 sec cdr is 10 sec cdr

[thorn thorn]

Reset is a full cdr

[jaunty kayak]

hey guys, could you help me please with my dilema? :c

im currently a troll rog and i want to race change.. however i cannot decide ... what would be the wisest choice?

• orc/maghar pure dmg-wise
• nelf
• dwarf (dark iron ??)

mythic raiding (currently queen prog) and mid-high keys (13-15/16ish range)

[bright cipher]

things are better now as blizzard have been fixing things with patches and hotfix but, when 11.0 released warlock had like 3 hero talent traits who didn't work

[thorn thorn]

Shadow Meld good

[bright cipher]

nwo its only 1

[jaunty sky]

pick the one your transmogs look best on

[bright cipher]

and from what i understand this kind of issues happened to most/all classes

[rotund ravine]

dragon for double jump and glide lol

[thorn thorn]

So why did John Warlock come to Ravenholdt anyway

Was it to flex on Whispyr that you had an actual set bonus

[subtle tundra]

wait, he is JOHN Warlock?

THE John Warlock?

[bright cipher]

i missed whispyr ❤️

and wanted to come here spy too

[subtle tundra]

you have spymaster already...

[bright cipher]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1323728792518267021/1323738246777147392/image.png?ex=677ae0cf&is=67798f4f&hm=461d395660e1f1475a26d64bc67605ee5eddc2ddcf8961dd78391ab3e1dcb63f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless this here is a bug

who i got told about shamans

[subtle tundra]

what does that mean

[thorn thorn]

Is that why they randomly oneshot in pvp

[bright cipher]

under certain conditions, a proc who was meant to cast 1 overloaded lava burst proc will instead proc a bunch of them

[fallow canopy]

sounds like some balanced (lava) bursting

[subtle tundra]

i also burst a bunch under certain conditions

[bright cipher]

https://imgur.com/a/6saPy4R this is one in demo-lock

a talent who is meant to give 5% haste to your pet

will douple dip giving 10% instead if you resummon him after he already got affected by it

[subtle tundra]

🤨

i wanna be double dipped too

sorry

ill stop

[thorn thorn]

🍝

[bright cipher]

during beta, every new talent who increased crit chance got coded to instead of giving +X% crit chance

it would multiply your current crit chance by X%

[thorn thorn]

I didnt think it was possible for TWW alpha beta and S1 to seem more cursed but here we are

[bright cipher]

i would speculate people were under a very strict schedule and possibly overworked

i mean expansions are now expected to be every 18 months right?

[thorn thorn]

DF was 2 years roughly

But TWW is looking to be 18 months

[bright cipher]

i also wonder how important/impactfull was Holinka leaving blizzard

as he was the leadership on the team who does classes

[thorn thorn]

They are cooking pretty good with some of the changes

Some of them are questionable

Like the role based tier sets

[bright cipher]

So

when i first saw the idea i hated it because i was expecting every spec/class get the same tierset

[thorn thorn]

I thought so too

[bright cipher]

so lock demo? same tier as fire mage and every other caster dps

[thorn thorn]

I only hate this because its rng cringe

[bright cipher]

but when i saw it? i don't hate it

[thorn thorn]

And the tank 2pcs are almost universally unimpactful 90% of the time

[bright cipher]

i think the execution can be flawed (for melee dps)

but its not a idea i hate

Jackpot! for exemple? i hope it gets used in the future too

because the idea of a Proc system who also guarantees you to get that proc within your burst is brilliant

[thorn thorn]

If only Insurance and Luck of the Draw were just as neat

Insurance needs some changes for some specs because depending on interactions its straight up bad for some

[bright cipher]

and i don't even hate the theory of winning streaks either, i just think it had bad executions

[thorn thorn]

And Luck of the Draw....

Well its something

[golden loom]

Yeah I swear all the caster/ranged stuff sounds fun af

Like machine gun hunter

[thorn thorn]

Melee got a lil scammed me thinks

[jaunty sky]

i'm very much considering switching class for next season

[thorn thorn]

Swap to Demo

[jaunty sky]

nah we got someone fully locked in for demo

and i feel like i won't be able to live without all my fun rogue defenses

like perma feint

and ignore this mechanic every 2 mins

[thorn thorn]

Play a paladin

[jaunty sky]

i got one leveled that i'm considering tanking on

[bright cipher]

for exemple, let's say that winning streaks alongside the stacks you generate as a proc you aso generated guaranteed ones under certain conditions in a semi-interval of time(for exempl on a 20s~30s CD or proc), and cosuming stacks actually did a thing or maybe a major cd consumed all stacks avaliable for a major effect

so you could have something like you build stacks across procs and guaranteed effects, gaining a minor stacking effect, you would stil ocassionally consume stacks, who trigger a major bonus (but at low intensity due to only consuming 1 or 2 stacks) with the possibility of when you press your big cd again it consumes all stacks for the rly large effect

there are some winning streaks who kind of do that already

but overall i think all the tiers on melees range from sad to just ok/meh

[wise atlas]

Hi, a friend helped me to level up a rogue to 80, but last time I played there were no hero talents, what's the difference between fate bound and deathstalker?, I haven't been able to log in to read more carefully and asking around my friends they just tell me "the do damage differently", can you guys help me understand what they do?, or there's another channel specifically for that?

[blazing pumice]

one makes you enter a lifetime commitment to one target, the other you press buttons

[slate crown]

!hero

[prisma monolith]

Both Hero Talents are viable in all content, and are within 2-5% of each other.
Fatebound: Instant damage, is easy to play, can remove some buttons from the rotation, little to no added gameplay
Deathstalker: Introduces gameplay, Singular focus adds big priority damage, suffers from bugs and marks being hard to juggle in easy content like heroic/m0 dungeons

[slate crown]

^ some info

[wise atlas]

Can points/hero talents be reassigned later?, if that's the case I'll may be start with fatebound, if not I'd like to commit to the one that focused more on single target damage

[wise atlas]

thanks

[subtle tundra]

talents are changed at the press of a button

[blazing pumice]

if you are playing m+, then just do deathstalker

unless there's major talent changes, there's no world where fatebound is going to be meta for m+

[subtle tundra]

mfw i lose the capstone between every pack

[jaunty sky]

mfw i dont get the capstone for half the dungeon just for it to immediately fall off again

[wise atlas]

thanks

[slate crown]

Fatebound is slightly ahead for full ST

And yes, you can just assign them like normal talents, all can be swapped at any time out of combat

[wise atlas]

I was under the impression they were permanent I don't know why, thanks everyone

[subtle tundra]

its already uninteresting, why is it also a pain in the ass

[grim jay]

s..s...s..s..skill-issue?

[grim jay]

ye idk why it needs to be a wonky debuff

instead of an easy buff

[thorn thorn]

To make it interesting

[jaunty sky]

there's such an easy fix too

make it not fall off during stealth

[analog field]

Guys i have a question if someone can answer. In m+ do we skill crimson tempest? and if so on bosses is it worth to spend 5 cp for it ?

[woven shore]

i need help

do i get these tokens

for the 3% buff from normal bosses too

or only heroic

And lfg

[real pike]

Hi everyone, I'm very out of the loop atm - does the ring sim correctly?

[slate crown]

yes take tempest

only use it on 2-3+ targets, don't use it on bosses in M+

[slate crown]

Yes ring is correct in sims

[real pike]

thank you 🙂

[quartz trellis]

Is there any feedback on the new tier set I can read anywhere?

[slate crown]

search for keywords in it in this channel, there are opinions to be had

[jaunty sky]

the wowhead article will be out soontm i heard

[slate crown]

yeah or that, it'll come out

#assassination message

Also can just search for "Winning Streak"

(spoiler it is not very popular)

[quartz trellis]

Thanks

[quartz trellis]

Yeah I had this in my head just wanted to hear from people far more informed than I

[mint badge]

anyone have experience with mythic queen?
for root break, is it vanish cloak then under boss?

[balmy condor]

I’m gonna make a video on it later tonight and the wowhead reviews are all written and trickling out over the next week idk where rogue reviews are in the rotation, but those should be out soon as well

[uneven nymph]

i

got

to

[marble hemlock]

whats the age restriction gonna be on the video due to mature language being used?

[uneven nymph]

80

from

72

in nearly 3hours

god dan

mn

[marble hemlock]

is there a reason you had to type that one word at a time?

[subtle tundra]

tutorial?

[uneven nymph]

yes

bc

my

addhdhdd

is geeking

rn

[marble hemlock]

how about you dont

[uneven nymph]

get a lvl 80 dh tank

run timeless

[uneven nymph]

smd

how

abt

that?

❤️

[marble hemlock]

or you know, alternatively, you recognize that its a public discord and for everyones reading pleasure you try not to, especially after being asked not to?

[uneven nymph]

im sorry

me

typing like this

is somehow

effecting

you mentally

but personally that sounds

like a you issue

more than anything

[thorn thorn]

Yea

Can you like

Not

Your issue

Is not

Our issue

[uneven nymph]

exactly

i dont

understand

[thorn thorn]

Ty ❤️

[uneven nymph]

why ure a sped

❤️

ok gn

[thorn thorn]

(Translation dont make your fucking issue our issue)

[quartz trellis]

Lovely, cheers

[thorn thorn]

Gn ❤️

[uneven nymph]

@marble hemlock what the weird cat guy said

[stuck knoll]

Stop spamming one words

and making the chat like this

[thorn thorn]

Is it gonna be more of a shit post or a proper review

[stuck knoll]

I will mute you

[quartz trellis]

Yes

[thorn thorn]

Excellent

[marble hemlock]

iirc his original reaction was not particularly positive, so take from that as you will

[thorn thorn]

I cant say im surprised

[marble hemlock]

who doesnt love a little RNG in their sets, amirite? 😛

tbf i dont even mind the theme as a whole, just feels like assa got one of the worst ones out there as well

frost DK kind of got shafted too

[thorn thorn]

Bdk got omega shafted too

A whole extra death strike every 3 minutes

[marble hemlock]

but what if that deathstrike saves your life?

then its massive value!

[fickle gulch]

Is it better to sim dungeon slice or multiple patchworks for dungeon sims

[marble hemlock]

depends on what youre looking for, sorta

[fickle gulch]

Looking to min max damage on dungeon packs

[marble hemlock]

dslice serves the purpose well enough unless youre looking for information on very specific situations

[fickle gulch]

Rogue assassination full bis

Okay mostly just making sure it’s accurate for dropimizer

[marble hemlock]

dslice includes a 2min boss fight at the start, so that can skew results a little. emphasis on can, in most cases it doesnt

but thats mostly an issue of previous expansions where our stat prio was vastly different between aoe/st, thats no longer the case (not to as big of a degree, at least)

just stack crit/mastery and youre good to go either way

[balmy condor]

Gonna be a very angry review

[marble hemlock]

angry, angwy or angy?

[fickle gulch]

Okay I think I have 17k crit 16k mastery

[thorn thorn]

So a shit post

[coral ibex]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/933386399279878154/991343673419763753/caption.gif

[royal lantern]

angy

https://tenor.com/view/kicking-kick-angry-angry-cat-kitten-gif-242937898553640108

[marble hemlock]

ye thats fine, youre not gonna see major dps shifts based on changing a few item pieces with different secondaries anyway. ilvl is king (especially due to the stamina that lets you live stuff better)

[fickle gulch]

Thanks all tho. I predict haste will start to shine in s2

[marble hemlock]

doubt it

[fickle gulch]

Crit and mastery work wonders for our talents but when I sim myself SOMETIMES the sims is starting to call for haste.

[fallow canopy]

What a menace

[marble hemlock]

itll naturally be worse in m+ than st due to the value of getting extra energy being a bit of a useless~ish benefit in aoe environments where we cap energy anyway

[fickle gulch]

For higher m+ keys is it worth building verse set for survival since stam is king?

[fallow canopy]

We like all stats so at some point if you have too much of somth the robot will tell you to get a little bit of what you are missing

[marble hemlock]

^this

[fickle gulch]

Im 2.8k rated just trying to at least push 3k this season.

[fallow canopy]

Heck at somepoint vers was very valuable to me while progging

[thorn thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/rrane-battal-rrane-battal-kızgın-battal-kızgın-gif-25355985

[marble hemlock]

ye with max ilvl youre good to go for 3k, no problems

even if it were full haste/versa gear

[fickle gulch]

Okay. If you build a vers set for survival I assume focus crit vers?

[marble hemlock]

pushing up keys is like 99% about teamwork, communication and just executing well, you could do that with 620 ilvl and still succeed. gear optimizations help very little with that, beyond giving you the ability to survive shit.

you wont need versa to survive as rogue for 3k

[fickle gulch]

It’s been rough with pugs I suppose but I agree. That said the util ass brings is insane to me+

I seen some top rogues stacking vers so just looking into it.

Ideally I’ll push as high as my limit lets me for score

[marble hemlock]

yeah, i wouldnt worry too much about what the absolute top of the top are doing because thats an entirely different environment than what youll find yourself in

they often end up optimizing very specific values for any particular dungeon at a very specific keylevel, none of that is a consideration for you

biggest jump you can make performance wise in m+ is not pug anymore, frankly

start building a network of friends (and they do the same) as you pug, and sooner or later youll end up playing more with the same people

thatll make things a lot easier and lets you break into higher ranks

[subtle tundra]

you didnt

you probably saw outlaws

[marble hemlock]

possibly

[subtle tundra]

everyone plays for max damage

[marble hemlock]

rogue generally has no issues in highkeys survivability wise cuz we have cloak/evasion/elusiveness

(but, again, no rogue going for 3k or even 3.3k should need to play elusiveness, when cheat is just another safety net and nothing will oneshot at those levels yet)

[coral ibex]

idk, there are a lot of effects that the notevenclose tool says will leave me under 10% hp at 638 without elusiveness

in a +12 key

and that's with using a defensive

[marble hemlock]

sure but as my healers used to say

"if it doesnt kill you, it basically deals no damage"

in most scenarios it doesnt matter if you take 6mil or 600k damage, cuz by the time the next damage event happens, youre back to full either way

[subtle tundra]

if it leaves you on 10% at +12 through 20% dr, you literally cant survive it on a 18

[royal lantern]

good old wow healing

[marble hemlock]

ye, im gonna call a "citation needed" on that as well

doubt anything kills you without defensive in a +12

or +18s would be impossible

*anthing avoidable

[thorn thorn]

The good ol nerfing healers by buffing player stamina and buffing enemy damage the same amount trick

[coral ibex]

ok i was a bit off but plenty of stuff straight up kills you in a 12 with no defensive

[spice surge]

Just feint

And its like 16s until you die

[marble hemlock]

now do it again with stamina, devo aura, atrophic, hp from aug and a few other things enabled, and youll quickly realize that theres like 3 abilities total that can oneshot you, for which you just use one of your 3 defensives like anybody else (only yours are better due to being straight immunes, being able to vanish the mechanics or your defensive having a 15second recharge time)

and thats not even including stuff like shields etc.

like, yeah theres shit that kills you in 12s ofc, but obvously some mechanics youre supposed to pop a defensive. the point i was triyng to make is that you do not need elusiveness up until you reach like 16/17s

[tulip glade]

beginner rogue. Chose assassination. How in the world can I level up this character in TWW? i m at the "fight with the mushrooms part". I have ilvl 382, didn t get anything better than that.

[thorn thorn]

(The hp that usually is rarely run now because its nerfed hard)

[scarlet barn]

CT on ovi or no?

[spice surge]

Yes

[scarlet barn]

do you have an import code?

im trying to copy the wcl builds but it's messy

I got it

[honest oxide]

why did they change tea

i hate the auto use

[thorn thorn]

Dont trigger auto use

[honest oxide]

obviously, but pooling energy isnt that fun

should have made it a choice node

[thorn thorn]

Welcome to Assassination

[honest oxide]

can you link logs so i can compare?

[thorn thorn]

You are better off finding some from dungeons/fights you directly one

Unless someone here wants to volunteer some

[spice surge]

In general the auto tea does not matter

The difference between proccing it and using it manually isnt big at all as most of the power comes from the energy anyway

It is annoying on fights like first boss mist though, have to admit

[honest oxide]

it seems like the difference between 95% parses to 99% is tied to not dipping so you have 2 teas for each deathmark

[spice surge]

Its absolutely 10000% not that

[coral ibex]

more likely they got more blindside procs outside of cds resulting in less energy usage

[honest oxide]

which means they have the 2 teas for both deathmarks right

[spice surge]

You dont want that anyway

Even if there was no auto-use

[coral ibex]

what's the downside of having 2 teas for dm?

[spice surge]

Youll waste energy

[coral ibex]

you can waste energy without teas in dm if you get blindsides

you can't control that

[hollow river]

you can control the tea usage though

[coral ibex]

you will gen 1 charge with every kb anyway

if you play properly

[honest oxide]

using the tea for DM is for the mastery buff tho

is it not?

[coral ibex]

so really you're just trying to juggle one charge outside cds

for really no reason

[spice surge]

Most of the power of tea comes from the energy

Not the mastery

[limber lion]

You can have a 99% parser use all their teas in the beginning of a fight immediately and waste them

And still get a 99

There's a lot more that separates a 99 and a 95 parser

[marble hemlock]

like getting your KB parried

[thorn thorn]

Real

[coral ibex]

im not triggered you are

[thorn thorn]

Who has the WA that plays a sound when your KB gets parried

[coral ibex]

my combat text wa just shows "Parried" in the middle of my screen

[honest oxide]

can you link me a 99 parse where they send all 3 teas at the start of a fight

[coral ibex]

whenever i get parried

[thorn thorn]

Where is Whispyr when we need him

He loves these auto tea convos

[limber lion]

It was hyperbole...

Just saying that if you think tea usage is what separates a 95 from a 99, you couldn't be more wrong

[nova kelp]

It's 2025... Are we legit still talking about tea usage?

[limber lion]

Fight length, team comp, strategy, how long adds survive, gear, rng

All of it matters much more than tea does.

[honest oxide]

Im talking specifically about single target with bis gear - tea usage does matter

[spice surge]

No

Thats what we are telling you

Its literally 0.1% difference in sims

[honest oxide]

link me a log where the top parsers are dipping below 30 energy

and i will believe you

[nova kelp]

#infowars

[limber lion]

What does that have to do with tea?

!pooling

[thorn thorn]

I swear the people who hate auto tea find the weirdest shit to bitch about

It really is not that hard to just not trigger it

[limber lion]

Even the pooling command was removed because it doesn't matter

Gg

[hollow river]

Moroes is down

[honest oxide]

link me some logs

and i will listen to you

[limber lion]

You don't have to listen to us

[thorn thorn]

You arent gonna listen anyway

So whats the point

[limber lion]

If you're ignorant and refuse to face facts

[honest oxide]

i will i need to see proof

[thorn thorn]

You can either take the advice

[limber lion]

That's on you

[thorn thorn]

Or just do your own thing

[honest oxide]

show me the facts

[limber lion]

Brother

[thorn thorn]

We have given the facts

You just wont listen

Do as you will

[limber lion]

Me and Eleem are both theorycrafters

I used to get r1 on every single boss in every single difficulty

Like

What more do you need

[thorn thorn]

Logs

Apparently

[limber lion]

Unlucky

[honest oxide]

i want logs

[limber lion]

If you wanna suck, that's on you

Tough luck

[honest oxide]

where actual humans are playing the spec

[thorn thorn]

Guess you arent an actual human Ceverion

Unlucky

[limber lion]

Logs of what exactly?

[spice surge]

Doesnt sound like it would be very helpful to you

[limber lion]

Logs of top parsers intentionally playing bad?

Very interesting

[spice surge]

But idk dude

[limber lion]

Back to my robot saga again

[honest oxide]

i can link you a log where whispyr isnt dipping below 30 energy

[limber lion]

Unlucky

[honest oxide]

and parsed a 100

[thorn thorn]

Ya

Because

[limber lion]

And what does that have to do with tea usage?

[thorn thorn]

It isnt hard to just not trigger the auto tea

[limber lion]

It's about pooling

Not tea usage

You said you should use 2 tea's during dm

Do you see Whispyr using 2 tea's during dm?

[honest oxide]

you pool so you dont auto use tea

[limber lion]

No you don't

[honest oxide]

until dm

[thorn thorn]

[limber lion]

Literally uses Whispyr as an example

But says that Whispyr does it incorrectly

Even though he's parsing 100's

Unlucky

[thorn thorn]

Unlucky indeed

[honest oxide]

i never said that

[limber lion]

You literally said you pool so you can use tea's with dm

Which is not what Whispyr does

[honest oxide]

what is he pooling for

[limber lion]

Alright I'm done

Good night

[thorn thorn]

Pooling for DM cuz this is Assassination

[elfin stream]

dramatic ass

[honest oxide]

okay not DM, KB sorry

[thorn thorn]

And Assassination pools

DM/KB

[shrewd night]

?

[elfin stream]

?

[thorn thorn]

If you dont like that assassination pools then

Take it up with blizz

[limber lion]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-doggo-wave-waves-waving-gif-19641333

[shrewd night]

Do you have something worthwhile to say or are you just here to stir?

[thorn thorn]

Intentional, but shitty design choice

[honest oxide]

you were the one telling me to not worry about pooling

[limber lion]

!pooling

Moroes please, we need you

[slate crown]

I think whispyr took out that command

[limber lion]

!wa

[hollow river]

the bot is not with us atm

[limber lion]

Nah, Moroes just deadge

[thorn thorn]

I did?

[limber lion]

Whispyr changed it heavily

[thorn thorn]

All I said was dont worry about Auto tea

[slate crown]

oh

morose is dead

well

deader than usual

[limber lion]

So instead of all the theory on how to pool

It's just "it doesn't matter"

[slate crown]

him being dead already

[ember mural]

got you boo

[slate crown]

champ

[elfin stream]

https://tenor.com/view/mixing-ricky-berwick-making-mario-a-cake-stirring-cooking-gif-17673012

[limber lion]

@honest oxide

Ty babes

[shrewd night]

[thorn thorn]

Rip Moroes

[honest oxide]

okay so i should avoid using the auto tea

thanks

[spice surge]

[thorn thorn]

Good thing its not a hard thing to avoid

[limber lion]

It's literally less than 0.2%

[spice surge]

If only somebody told you that exact thing

20 minutes ago

[limber lion]

The difference between 95 and 99 is not 0.2%

[thorn thorn]

We do this song and dance every time auto tea comes up

At some point we need a command that goes through the whole chain of events

[honest oxide]

okay im trying to get the absolute max damage out of my character

[shrewd night]

Everyone is.

[limber lion]

Then you should listen to what we say

That's kinda our job here

[spice surge]

Yes and we are telling you there are a ton of other things that you should be focusing on before worrying about things that dont really matter like tea

[thorn thorn]

Logs are more important

Unlucky

[limber lion]

A less than a 0.2% min max is the absolute last thing you should focus on

Might wanna fix the glaring issues first

[honest oxide]

thats all that i have left to worry about

i have a 98 average in heroic

[spice surge]

Ok

[hollow river]

[honest oxide]

i was asking a question to find reasoning and am getting shit on

[limber lion]

That's still not the reasoning buddy

I told you the reasons earlier

Fight length, team comp, gear, rng and so on

Matters much more than this shit

R1 on Queen Ansurak heroic is 2.1m dps

95 is 1.3m dps

[honest oxide]

im aware but that is all out of my control

[limber lion]

You think that's the difference between tea usage?

Absolutely not

You should not use 2 tea's with dm

[honest oxide]

i want to do the best i possibly can regardless of fight length, or comp

[limber lion]

That's where you can start

Using tea properly

[honest oxide]

i corrected myself

u use 2 on opener and 2 for the next kb

[spice surge]

If that makes you feel better go ahead

[limber lion]

But you don't though

You said you've looked at Whispyr's logs

but apparently not

Because he does not do that

[limber lion]

Let's see the next two uses

[limber lion]

What about the next one

[winter lichen]

!tricks

[honest oxide]

the cd is too long to get 2 uses for next kb

[winter lichen]

whats the auto tricks command again

[hollow river]

the bot is down atm

[winter lichen]

o

im on an alt and need the macro ill hit google

[shrewd night]

You can find earlier posts of the command by searching it

[thorn thorn]

Moroes took the day off

[winter lichen]

great comm

made my day

[honest oxide]

@limber lion are you there?

[limber lion]

Well I stand corrected

But shows even more proof that tea usage literally does not matter whatsoever

Lmao

[honest oxide]

clearly it does if he is pooling to not use the tea outside of KB

[limber lion]

R1 on Sikran (without PI) is using tea correctly

[thorn thorn]

Delete PI

[limber lion]

This is the correct way to use tea

You use it first in the beginning to get it on cd

The 2 other times you use it for energy during the Shiv/KB windows

You do not use it twice in the beginning cause you waste some of the energy

[honest oxide]

what is the reason for 1 tea on pull

[limber lion]

I literally just said

[honest oxide]

is the mastery buff just not good?

[limber lion]

No it's terrible

We have never used tea for mastery

[thorn thorn]

Energy from it more important

[limber lion]

It is only for energy

The mastery is a very slight bonus

But you want the energy during the kb/shiv windows

not the mastery

because more energy means more abilities

which means more poison procs

which means more damage

the mastery is whatever

[honest oxide]

r1 on myth sikran is doing what i was saying seemed correct

2 1 2

for DM

i can link the log if you would like

[limber lion]

I literally just looked at the r1

And it did not do that

Are you literally looking at someone who's getting PI?

Brother.

[coral ibex]

[limber lion]

He's doing 40k more than the r3 who didn't get PI

[honest oxide]

you get PI inside DM either way

[limber lion]

40k difference with PI

Is wild

Should be a much bigger difference

[limber lion]

What

[shrewd night]

Cev doesnt have a dedicated pi

[limber lion]

Like out of these 2 people, who do you think plays better?

The person who gets PI and does 8k more dps

Or the one without

[slate crown]

nick obviously, made me think of nickelodeon

[limber lion]

I'll come back to WoW once they remove PI

You can keep me accountable

[thorn thorn]

Based asf

[limber lion]

Good thing that won't be happening for a while

[honest oxide]

is the pi not going to help generate energy inside of DM?

[limber lion]

It absolutely is

[hollow river]

[limber lion]

Which is why he's doing more damage

Than the other people

[thorn thorn]

[limber lion]

Not because he's a better player

But because he's getting PI

Yes

That's how it works.

[thorn thorn]

What a great ability

[hollow river]

getting PI means that they can make mistakes and still get a better ranking than they might actually deserve

[thorn thorn]

We love PI

[shrewd night]

Yall can ignore pi next tier, its feral time to enjoy the perks of being blessed

[thorn thorn]

[jaunty sky]

yeah the 4 energy regen per second is really the deciding factor for PI, that 60 energy is doing a lot

[thorn thorn]

Dont forget to account for bleed tick rate from the haste gain

[jaunty sky]

and attack speed i know

[limber lion]

@honest oxide like there's many glaring mistakes that you're doing in your rotation

[thorn thorn]

Just another reason PI is a shit ability

[limber lion]

Maximizing tea is probably not what you should be focusing on

Might wanna maximize bleed uptime first

[jaunty sky]

but it sounded like that one extra mutilate every 2 mins is doing all of it

[limber lion]

then unbinding poisoned knife from your bars

and then fixing your shiv usage

[honest oxide]

i only use that when out of range of boss

[thorn thorn]

Its mostly just the benefit of getting +20% flat haste does for you

[limber lion]

Yeah, don't do that

[thorn thorn]

Very cool ability

[limber lion]

Literally a waste

You used it at low energy

Like what is the point

Perfect time for pooling

Just let the energy do what it's supposed to

[honest oxide]

that is why i was asking about pooling, i was asking a question to learn

[slate crown]

you're better off spending the energy on a feint just to pre-empt unexpected damage than using poison knife

[limber lion]

That's not what I mean

Pooling doesn't matter

But you using poisoned knife does

[thorn thorn]

Yo poisoned knife usage

[limber lion]

you not having 100% uptime on bleeds does

you getting PI does

you messing up every single double shiv window does

[thorn thorn]

Death to PI

[shrewd night]

Using poison knife is fine - only if you are using it to avoid capping energy, and at that point why are you gone from the boss for so long.

[fallow canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/peepo-peepo-riot-riot-protest-peepo-angry-gif-21768097

[limber lion]

Or just, not using anything because you're low energy and there's no need to spam abilities at 50 energy

[honest oxide]

is my KB wa dogshit then

[thorn thorn]

Yea I said it PI should be deleted

Fite me

[slate crown]

Right, I'm assuming energy capping

not low energy

[limber lion]

Yeah, which is not what he's doing

[fallow canopy]

fight you? brother I'm about to hold you while you chant "death to pi"

[limber lion]

We're far from overcapping

We're spamming

24/7

But yeah, it's true. If you're about to cap energy, use an ability, even PK is fine if nothing else is available

[slate crown]

which one

[limber lion]

Idk but you always have a 0-2s delay between your 2 Shiv's

[honest oxide]

uh its just called kingsbane tracker

[limber lion]

Giga bad

[shrewd night]

The only reason Im not beige parsing is because queen trinket isnt critting. Swear down.

[jaunty sky]

i think the 2% to 4% more dps from PI really isnt gonna fix any problems

[limber lion]

Should rather overlap the Shivs

[limber lion]

No as in he's getting PI already

[thorn thorn]

Real asf

[limber lion]

Once it gets removed, he'll drop even more

[jaunty sky]

lemme see that log as well

[honest oxide]

so just send the 2nd shiv with 8 sec remaining on KB?

[limber lion]

Already closed it

Just search his name

[limber lion]

You just use the Shiv's back to back

Once the first Shiv is about to end, press Shiv

Don't wait 2s

Don't need to look at KB weakauras or anything

Just look at the Shiv

[honest oxide]

can you link me ur logs so i can compare please

[fallow canopy]

I just put a meow on the LE aura and a nice cat will always remind me

[slate crown]

[honest oxide]

anyone here

[slate crown]

Cev's logs

[limber lion]

Just compare yourself to the r1 boys without pi

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/draenor/ceverion

Here's my page

:------)

[shrewd night]

Happy to be of service

[honest oxide]

so do i just look at my energy during first KB and use tea when i get low

or just let it auto use

during my KB windown

[limber lion]

You just let it autouse, it doesn't matter

You spam during KB

So it will proc during KB automatically

[jaunty sky]

from what i've seen people macro it to shiv

[limber lion]

Yeah, you can macro it to Shiv

So the first cast uses it as well

[jaunty sky]

like this

[limber lion]

You literally don't have to think about it at all

Just macro and forget about its existence

[tardy echo]

So I've been looking over my mythic logs and my average envonom cast dmg is super low compared to the leading rogue dispite more casts of everything. Anyone else have a similar problem or might know why that is? I got it to work once on my rash where im hitting 790k average hit but the other bosses tonight were just barely breaking 600k.

[honest oxide]

hidden?

[thorn thorn]

You make the cat sound auras?

[limber lion]

Unlucky.

[fallow canopy]

interesting drip tho

[slate crown]

No he made the cat sounds.

[shrewd night]

I meow everytime you tell me to.

[thorn thorn]

[fallow canopy]

:3

[slate crown]

🫡

[thorn thorn]

Your service is greatly appreciated

[honest oxide]

why are you hiding ur logs

[limber lion]

Oops, got some ghetto ass pants, belts and boots on

[limber lion]

I hid them at the end of Shadowlands

Because I was too full of myself

[shrewd night]

REAL

[limber lion]

And too focused on parsing

[shrewd night]

TRUE

[limber lion]

Just being honest

[thorn thorn]

Real

[shrewd night]

Youve become very chill since then.

[limber lion]

[coral ibex]

you would have to be crazy to believe cev hides his logs for any other reason

[ember mural]

login for your circlet bestie

[thorn thorn]

Dont do it

11.0.7 is a lie

[fallow canopy]

a lie is generous i think

[limber lion]

Yeah, I'm good

[thorn thorn]

Just wait for 11.1

[shrewd night]

Next season is going to be goated

[thorn thorn]

Surely

[dapper cradle]

[shrewd night]

Motherlode

[thorn thorn]

I dont play Assa anymore tho

I will return once Caustic Spatter is dead

[dapper cradle]

It’ll be a sub szn

Mark my words

[fallow canopy]

there's gonna be an insane amount of car crashes on the new zone

can't wait

[thorn thorn]

Oh wait the cars can actually crash

[waxen oyster]

ngl

[fallow canopy]

idk but with the speed they are saying

[waxen oyster]

Saying "i hate pooling" when playing the pool spec

is kind of silly

[dapper cradle]

!pool

F

[fallow canopy]

we don't really pool that much anymore do we?

[fallow canopy]

!pooling

[waxen oyster]

you dont even pool during cds anymore

[fallow canopy]

oh

[waxen oyster]

you just giga slam envs

[thorn thorn]

Moroes took the night off

[dapper cradle]

[fallow canopy]

he deserves it ig

[waxen oyster]

You kind of can in keys build

on st without cds

[fallow canopy]

tru tru

[shrewd night]

Wow, yall get into keys??

[waxen oyster]

sometimes

[thorn thorn]

Yes

I heal

[pliant remnant]

I can't wait to roll or fel rush or some shit at the start of Workshop and dc

[thorn thorn]

[waxen oyster]

being declined at 639 bags is rough

ngl

[pliant remnant]

deplete the key, hearth to dornogal, and then drive my D.R.I.V.E. into a wall and get a permaban

[waxen oyster]

for a 10

really makes you think

[shrewd night]

What you playing homeboi

[thorn thorn]

Most pugs hosting keys actually have no idea how the game works

[pliant remnant]

I dunno if it's a part of the problem, but I always queue into 11s minimum

[thorn thorn]

Pres/Resto Druid

[waxen oyster]

felrush d/c is mostly when you jump

[pliant remnant]

Never seem to have an issue

[thorn thorn]

I aint no blue healer

[shrewd night]

Resto druid

Im sorry for your lapse in judgement

[thorn thorn]

The Resto Druid is because I got bored of Pres

And I made a terrible choice

[waxen oyster]

also very true

if the pug lead's mog isnt 🔥

I know this key gonna b trash

[shrewd night]

You made me not see a soundless spawn

[waxen oyster]

people who dont mog their gear

belong on a list

[thorn thorn]

What does this mean

[fallow canopy]

word

[waxen oyster]

the mount in nazjatar

[shrewd night]

It means I a) either missed out on a mount or b) just wanted to gamba and lost

[fallow canopy]

surely that was the one that dropped

[shrewd night]

SUURELY

[waxen oyster]

Although real talk why does the hallowfall plate questing set

[thorn thorn]

There are other ways to see if the key is gonna be trash

[waxen oyster]

look better than all 3 classes tiersets

[thorn thorn]

If they play a Draenei, there is like a 9/10 chance they are terrible

[waxen oyster]

male draenei

[thorn thorn]

Idk what the deal is but almost every Draenei I have seen has been dogshit awful

[waxen oyster]

male nelf/belf

[thorn thorn]

Yea Male Draenei specifically

[waxen oyster]

male most races in this game

are just

why

[thorn thorn]

If they slam the key in or do a pull 10

50/50 of it being bad

[waxen oyster]

male dranei are just consistently bad

[strange sleet]

I just got the rivendare's deathcharger 😮

[waxen oyster]

hm tauren players special mention

[versed mica]

Male dwarves however

[fallow canopy]

gz!

[versed mica]

https://tenor.com/view/dwarf-warcraft-chad-repost-if-dwarf-chad-gif-21569293

[waxen oyster]

if i see a male dwarf with the fungus hat

this guy fucks

[versed mica]

Hell yeah we do

[waxen oyster]

i mean male nelf is literally why

fem nelf is one of the best races aesthetically

[thorn thorn]

Mechagnome

[waxen oyster]

💀

i barely see those

[thorn thorn]

Or just gnomes in general

[waxen oyster]

They sim well ig

and gnomes you might run into some ok ones due to ansurek

if they raid

[ember mural]

dog 2019 called they want their content back

[waxen oyster]

generally speaking as much as people say what race you pick for class doesnt matter

[shrewd night]

[waxen oyster]

Some god awful racial races are only chosen by ermm

not the best

of playerbase

[thorn thorn]

My monk is a gnome

Not because of any racial benefits, I just wanna cause psychic damage to people I play with

[waxen oyster]

im skeptical of anyone who plays an alliance druid

and isnt nelf

tbf

[shrewd night]

Wait

[thorn thorn]

Draenei racial kinda slept on now that its cd is 2min

[waxen oyster]

ehh some tryhards play it to give tigers lust to other classes on ansurek

aka spriests aka anchor class

[thorn thorn]

Reasonable

[shrewd night]

Its late ok, I forgot worgen and kul tirans exist

[waxen oyster]

Real talk is it me or are priests just hyper dependent

on getting externals every tier

for any mechanic in the game

[thorn thorn]

Yes

Now they rely on Evokers

For both Spatial and Rescue

[shrewd night]

Yes, but they give PI so it balances out

[thorn thorn]

Delete PI

[waxen oyster]

yeah i forget other druid races exist

[waxen oyster]

i saw a blue dh image on sikran and my brain immediately thought it was hpriest angel form

[thorn thorn]

Never forget that they gave Spatial a 3min cd specifically so it would desync with priest healing cds

[waxen oyster]

just so used to see hpriests floorpov

[shrewd night]

Ive never played spatial this tier. And if I rescue people, its to kill them 90% of the time

[thorn thorn]

Real

Spatial barely worth using after its nerf in raid

Time Spiral much better

[shrewd night]

Fucking shamans

If it wasnt for them, Id be free from time spiral duty on queen

[marble hemlock]

idk our holypriest lost a lot of sanity during prog

whenever he didnt get spatial

espeically on silken

[thorn thorn]

That is exactly why the cd was increased to 3min

[marble hemlock]

so holypriests can cast hymn while moving

[thorn thorn]

Yup

Cuz they forgot that

[waxen oyster]

Yeah idk i feel like

[thorn thorn]

[marble hemlock]

imagine just making it castable while moving baseline

[waxen oyster]

evokers are delegated to taxi'ing priest players around

every ier

[marble hemlock]

so your spec doesnt feel like trash

[thorn thorn]

Yes

Evokers are now the designated priest taxis

It kinda sucks

[marble hemlock]

instead you get to despair everytime the buff comes in a second later

[waxen oyster]

idk if spriest was good this tier

because i never see them

on details

[thorn thorn]

They can pump

People just dont play them

[waxen oyster]

the joke is i forget having one

[thorn thorn]

People will always flock to the fotm

[waxen oyster]

because my details stops after 7

[thorn thorn]

And be absolute dogshit at it

[shrewd night]

I wish I could spread my all my dots for free with one gcd like spriest can smile

[waxen oyster]

yeah bad enh players

[thorn thorn]

"But its target capped "

[waxen oyster]

whiffing tempests

[thorn thorn]

Enh players hurt my soul

[waxen oyster]

every long time enh main i know is just

on perma suicide watch figuratively

while the fotm apes are clueless

[thorn thorn]

Yep

Imagine actually being able to play Aug properly, and you get all these monkeys getting carried giving the spec a bad rep

And nobody wants to take Dev either

[waxen oyster]

I just

dont bother inviting pug augs

for vault fills

honestly

[thorn thorn]

Ya dont

Coming from someone who played Aug, just dont

95% of them dont know head from ass

[waxen oyster]

surprisingly most surv pugs

are decent

[thorn thorn]

Most people who play the rare classes tend to be very good at them

[waxen oyster]

Yeah

[thorn thorn]

I had a Surv in a +8 do 1.1m overall at 590