assassination

[spark hornet]

lol

[balmy condor]

you're uh

pretty fucked

like it's insanely hard to drop envenom with ttk

you'd have to be doing it on purpose

[limber coral]

interesting

[exotic pulsar]

do you use CT in st?

[balmy condor]

no

[exotic pulsar]

thats my onnly guess how he is so low

i wasnt asking i was ju st wondering if he does

[limber coral]

I have a log

one sec

[balmy condor]

oh

[limber coral]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ww1HV6bNGKv3MA7Q#fight=37&type=damage-done

[balmy condor]

what are you talking about

this looks fine

that's basically 100%

[limber coral]

well im doin heroic queen and seem to get no where near that

[balmy condor]

well heroic queen also has intermissions where you stand there and do absolutely nothing

so

[exotic pulsar]

bro queen has downtime lol

[balmy condor]

kind of a shit comparison

like yeah your uptime is going to be worse on queen

[limber coral]

should of started off with that, apologies

[balmy condor]

or rash

[rocky sluice]

when you cloak the charges from mythic Kyvezza

[balmy condor]

you're chasing rash 24/7

[rocky sluice]

does it negats the orbs that come out of you?

[balmy condor]

yes

[rocky sluice]

nice

[novel star]

cosmetic mechanic

[exotic pulsar]

What I want to know is why sin got mildy nerfed and enh is ok

that shit is doing stupid damage right now

[thick sail]

How easy is ret

Because

[exotic pulsar]

you can play ret with your feet

with a blindfold

[thick sail]

I feel like my fiance does inordinate amounts of damage

With like

1/3 the effort I put into my rotation

[edgy brook]

Ret is like the BM hunters of melee

[balmy condor]

only on highroll right? Like enhance is doing assa damage but it's also got a dps swing of like 40%

[thick sail]

Then why do they also have BOP and auras and offheals? Like

[exotic pulsar]

yeah some pulls ill stay close, and some pulls he is just randomly doing 50% more damage than us

its like ok

[thick sail]

Can I get some serious damage or some actual baseline utility please, goddamn

[balmy condor]

yeh, skill based game xdd

[exotic pulsar]

it would be less tilting if it were like old school outlaw where the down swing would make him drop on the meters....seems bad rng on a shaman just means same damage as we all normally do

[thick sail]

It is very strange to me that Iron Wire requires 3 talent points

Like, that is our only real utility

[balmy condor]

well it's very strange to me that people aren't using it

but such is the world we live in

[thick sail]

Who isn't using it? Because

That + subterfuge is nuts

[balmy condor]

like any rogue in the top 50

[thick sail]

It's the reason to play this spec

If you aren't using it

Literally play something else

A different class

[balmy condor]

well the reason to play assa is cause it cranks like a mfer

iron wire is just useful on top

[thick sail]

Are we the highest damage atm?

[balmy condor]

pretty close yeah

[thick sail]

Oh, I guess that's fine then

[exotic pulsar]

tell that to the people in lfg

[novel gulch]

before 11.05 i parsed 90s but now after the changes i only parse 40s doing same rotation without SnD i missing something?

[coral ibex]

damage probably

[thick sail]

Are you still pressing S&D accidentally?

[novel gulch]

no its not on my bars

[coral ibex]

pressing snd wont cause that lol

[balmy condor]

are you using new talents

[novel gulch]

yes using the new talents

[balmy condor]

aight lets see some logs then

[novel gulch]

leme find a sikran

[thick sail]

Speaking of new talents, man, Dashing + TTK just feels nice. Such synergy, much useful

[novel gulch]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9x7FTZkqga1MwNhB#fight=16

[balmy condor]

are you mizkif or bakez

[novel gulch]

miz

[balmy condor]

aight

[novel gulch]

i wouldnt be caught dead with gray parses

[coral ibex]

kill time moment i fear

4m is rather slow

prob died just before your cds came up

[novel gulch]

well i just wanna say i messed up the shive on the opener

shiv

i doulbe pressed it

[coral ibex]

also 619 ilvl

tough

[twilit gull]

Considering that it's 64% il parse it's decent, the kill is just slow

[west crown]

No one seems to agree with me but I think something else got broken after our 2% nerf

[rotund oak]

like what exactly

[west crown]

So like if you look at this weeks dps on bosses, and compare to last weeks. Most bosses have about the same kill time with significant dps increases. And I don’t feel like I got that much better skill-wise

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/stormrage/ryzorion

And only 3 ilvl

[rotund oak]

3ilvl is a jump and depends

[azure orchid]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[balmy condor]

well just comparing your kyveza kills on the same timeframe, this week you got 100 more melee hits cause you didn't get targeted by mechanics, you had better kingsbane timings

last week you missed a kingsbane cast, you had caustic instead of internal bleeding, you didn't have an oil/stone on your second dagger, you didn't use a tempered potion, you didn't use a tea charge until 2:20, you had 20% lower dawnthread uptime, you had less darkest nights, less blindside procs, less bone spikes, worse envenom uptime with ttk, you also messed up your shiv on your 3min kb

so yeah

more gear and like a billion things being worse last week

makes a difference

[west crown]

Yeah I remember a few being bad last week. But I was really surprised by the bloodhound increase for example

But I guess I’ll chop it up to “skill”

[balmy condor]

brother I opened the bloodbound increase and the first thing I see is carnage

[drifting cloud]

xd

[balmy condor]

you played this on bloodbound last week

yeah no shit you're doing more this week

[west crown]

Ok I must have been smoking something last week

I’m bad at logs, ty

[balmy condor]

np

[drifting cloud]

maybe youre just a nice person that respecs for trash and forgot to swap back

[full summit]

there is a way to stop thisle tea from auto consuming

its fucking with me so bad

[balmy condor]

no

[full summit]

and its annpying

[drifting cloud]

that should teach you, better do trash with st build

[balmy condor]

macro it and forget it

[full summit]

ughhh

whats da macro

[balmy condor]

!tea

[prisma monolith]

Shiv/Tea Macro
With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

[full summit]

glooks

ty

[west crown]

The one week I decide to respec for trash…

Never again

[minor berry]

Hi all ❤️ out of curiosity usually caustic spatter in theory should be one of our biggest dps in a dung right?

[rotund oak]

not only in theory but practically it is

[minor berry]

Just curious because this is my dps breakdown of a +10

[rotund oak]

yeah that looks wrong

[minor berry]

but I still did 1.57m overal

[rotund oak]

a number doesnt mean u did good and the overall varies to many factors

[arctic tusk]

thats myth sac and skardyns hero transmitter

[rotund oak]

same as that meters,can post 2mil overalls gapping everyone else and still play wrong

[arctic tusk]

ah

i had

crest cap on

https://tenor.com/view/feel-me-think-about-it-meme-gif-7715402

[still stirrup]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[balmy condor]

yeah that looks okay

[minor berry]

I agree there, but in general one would assume that a lower Caustic Splatter would mean a lower dps in general

which confuses me

perhaps the overall dmg is bugged, which would not surprise me

[rotund oak]

lower overall to what u would have done if u had utilized spatter better

On normal breakdowns spatter gaps every other source,2nd is garrote with envenom and after that ct with rupture being close

but m+ in general is a clusterf@ck and many factors come into play

[worthy laurel]

I see the most updated M+ talent build is running the second Vanish charge. How comparable is a single point in Lethality instead?

[minor berry]

I tend to change targets quite a bit to cc them a bit more, so perhaps that's why I couldn't use it more properly

was more worried to do those things

[rotund oak]

yes thats a major mistake,we pick a target,usually the highest hp among the otehrs and cleave off him

if u wanna kick use focus kicks

works better the way sin functions

[west crown]

That’s fine

[minor berry]

I teeeend to do that but sometimes if there's a caster mob I just swap to stun as well

specially when kick is on cd

I've never been able to use focus kicks properly as well

[rotund oak]

even sending KS instead of envenoms and all that jazz u would still have spatter on top if u follow the normal fashion we do things

[minor berry]

specially in m+ when the priority target seems to change quite a bit specially if the tank chains pulls a lot

[minor berry]

Which is confusing as well, because I don't feel I did my rotation "wrong"

[rotund oak]

i think u are trying to do many things together avoiding the main goal,to do dmg,everything is good,kicks,cc all cool but there is a certain way we do dmg

[minor berry]

(but clearly I did it wrong :P)

[rotund oak]

it definitely is wrong wrong,coz feelings mean nothing when numbers exist

[minor berry]

Could be that as well. I saw so many casts during the instance being missed that I ended doing that

[minor berry]

I agree there. But since my dmg wasn't "low" I just ignored it and kept doing that

will need to keep better track of things

[rotund oak]

now thats the very wrong way to approach things.Doing dmg good enough to get u on top of the details is just satisfying ego

learning the optimal/right is harder 😉

[minor berry]

Not denying that. Just saying that clearly I wasn't really paying attention to what I was doing and just ignored it because of numbers

only at the end of the run I decided to check

[rotund oak]

Hi Mr @balmy condor sir,is dropping SD/IW legitimate for MA and subter?Whats the deal,watching like 3-4 out of 10 rogues playing that

[spice spire]

What key

[rotund oak]

on my mage i did stonevault and siege 11

and dawn iirc

Dropping IW looks rly cringe

the dude had no SD nor IW

played ma and ttk

like

[stray adder]

let em know sap

[west crown]

We are dropping SD but IW is getting dropped because some of the top players are doing so people are incorrectly blindly following them

[rotund oak]

dropping both and picking up ttk is criminal

how does that make sense

[balmy condor]

I mean should be playing MA regardless, but yes

[rotund oak]

one last question

what do we drop for MA?

basicly ill sim myself but idk why we would vanish to pandemic the bleeds and get MA buff and ditch bleed dmg

thats what is confusing me

[vagrant brook]

that is the build I tried for the mists 13 I did today

[spice spire]

Dropping iw for stonevsult is uh

[vagrant brook]

i wouldnt drop it in sv tho

[spice spire]

I believe in the non-iw mists

Vault is vile

[visual sun]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[rotund oak]

u guys are nuts stonevault has the voiddudes that cast the fear and the stonebolts

[cobalt gyro]

had to give my friend the talk about stealth

[rotund oak]

and mists has the heals and the wormcasts

[cobalt gyro]

he doesnt buy it

[vagrant brook]

5 people kicking/CCing is plenty

no need for IW

imo

[spice spire]

Which you’d have to vanish for in the maze and silence doesn’t effect worm casts

[vagrant brook]

if you're pugging I would always run IW tho

[minor berry]

I hate Stonevault >.>

[rotund oak]

last part of the dungeon is where IW breaks the game,u help the tank with the pack'em'all 500mg IW vanish tech

[balmy condor]

idk what this means

MA is the standard

[rotund oak]

[vagrant brook]

i love how forced induction vs 2xleth is like 0.0% dps difference for me in ST

so i choose forced induction cause 10cp envenoms

feels good

[rotund oak]

have u updated the build

i see subter

[west crown]

Not taking IW for the DR in higher keys without interrupts is troll

[full summit]

Odd question

is anyone running keys and seeing the mobs

just randomnly heal?

[stray adder]

affix

probably

[full summit]

kk thought so

[stray adder]

people arent pressing their buttons

[rotund oak]

cool nvm,ill update the new build no need to answer @balmy condor at least MA makes sense here

thx for the input

[west plaza]

using the WA on the wowhead site, why are there two green bars for envenom and one has a blue line sometimes?

[balmy condor]

twist the knife

[stray adder]

pandemic

[west plaza]

but like why are there two bars?

[vagrant brook]

twist the knife

[balmy condor]

twist the knife allows envenom to stack twice

those are the two stacks

[west plaza]

oh gotcha, so they don't refresh all of them, just the oldest 2

sorry only saw the pandemic comment

[west crown]

Pretty sure pandemic only works now on envenom when you have 2 stacks

[balmy condor]

yes

because if you have 1 stack, you can just apply a second stack

[slate crown]

Ye, it’s why the blue bar only shows on the one

[west plaza]

gooootcha

i was confused why it was only appearing sommetimes

[minor berry]

Oh, Wowhead is more updated than Icyveins?

because build there is different :E

[balmy condor]

they're both updated

there's just a lot of builds

[minor berry]

the M+ one is this one

[balmy condor]

yes that's fine

[stray adder]

what

lol

[minor berry]

meanwhile the M+ one in Wowhead is different

[balmy condor]

yes

that one is also fine

[west plaza]

noice

[minor berry]

confused

but that's good at least

[slate crown]

Simply don’t be.

[stray adder]

https://tenor.com/view/neil-de-grasse-tyson-aight-imma-head-out-im-out-you-crazy-im-going-gif-7593578096101644476

[rotund oak]

i just asked the man like 2min ago

[balmy condor]

it's not confusing

there's just

many good builds

talent A is good

talent B is good

they're both good

everything is good

just play anything and everything

shit doesn't matter

[minor berry]

now, which one is the best? 😛

[balmy condor]

I fucking hate you

[minor berry]

Noooo :C

[vagrant brook]

[slate crown]

https://tenor.com/view/bonk-gif-13392138837084579216

[balmy condor]

I just told you all the builds are good

[stray adder]

this channel is exhausting holy f

[minor berry]

I knowwww, I just wanted to add a little spice :p

[vagrant brook]

the different builds are mostly situational

[coral ibex]

its impossible to pick a build unless they are ordered in a tier list and one is in "humungous dick dam"

sorry

[vagrant brook]

like do you need more aoe dmg, more boss dmg, more silences, etc

[rotund oak]

tryhard minmaxers tryin' to juice up everything,sin is the chill-est of them all

[vagrant brook]

overall they're the same

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

read that

[slate crown]

I love picture books

[coral ibex]

make sure you pick one that doesn't take iron wire

[minor berry]

Will try one of those, mostly because I like double stealth uwu

[coral ibex]

i hear it does 1.3% more damage

[west plaza]

"blizzard finally did it, every spec in every class is finally perfectly balanced and does the same damage"

"yeah but why are death knights first?"

"they are just sorted alphabetically"

everyone starts playing dks only

WoW players will never settle for "they are all good"

there must always be "the best"

[coral ibex]

rename warrior to battler

[slate crown]

Just sort by spec name not class name we win

[coral ibex]

not if you rename arms to aggressor

[vagrant brook]

mathematically sanguine blades did 5% of my damage in a mists key, so taking IW is a 5% dps loss 🤓 👆

[coral ibex]

wait

[slate crown]

Fuck

[coral ibex]

arms is before assa

anyway

[slate crown]

I forgot arms

[rotund oak]

arcane wins anyway^^

[coral ibex]

fuck a mage tho

[slate crown]

And arcane fuck fuck

Uhhh

[coral ibex]

aassassination

[slate crown]

[rotund oak]

[balmy condor]

mathematically sanguine blades consumed energy in order to do that 5% on your details which means that it didn't actually give you 5% damage since you could've used that energy doing other things

🤓 ☝️

[keen spruce]

[stray adder]

we have some great mathematicians here tonight

[mint kindle]

How important is the 7 combo point envenom to get the upgraded FoK? Say I have 6 cp, should I do 1 more mutilate to get the proc?

[coral ibex]

wat

[stray adder]

yes you have to consume the DN proc by going to 7 cp

[coral ibex]

you do a 7cp envenom to consume DN

the fok damage is incidental

[mint kindle]

Yeah thats what I meant. Should I force the 7 cp envenom

[stray adder]

when you consume DN it gives you a CtW proc

[mint kindle]

Even if Im sitting at 6

[stray adder]

which is the fok you are talking about

[coral ibex]

well you have to do a 7cp envenom so 6 won't work

[mint kindle]

Or should I try to go for 3-2-2 or something similar

[stray adder]

no go to 7

[mint kindle]

I see. Thanks

[west crown]

3-2-2

[vagrant brook]

Indeed, such as spamming garrotes cause my group is bad 🤓☝️
/s

[mint kindle]

Another question: with only one shiv, I should use it at the last 6 seconds of Kingsbane right?

[stray adder]

yes

bottom of KB

[mint kindle]

Perfect thx

[mint kindle]

?

[stray adder]

it's bottom 8 though

not 6

[mint kindle]

8 yeah mb

Was not sure

[grand cedar]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[sharp trellis]

anyone can explain me what is going on with this spec ? no dbl vanish for 1 % crit and no garrot silence ?

[dusty crescent]

do you guys just do bleed builds for 10 and under?>

or do you rock the hybrid

[mossy sundial]

certain dungeons dont need garrote silence, i.e. mists

double vanish is a meme but you can take it over lethality if you want to

[balmy condor]

double vanish is pretty good after the changes

[dusty crescent]

Daddy whispyr is typing

[balmy condor]

but yeh it's either that or 1 point

[dusty crescent]

whispyr sensei answer my cry

[balmy condor]

bleed build for like heroic

anything m+ just play hybrid

not that bleed is bad or anything

[dusty crescent]

ah kk

[balmy condor]

but like

[mossy sundial]

what changes? I must be uninformed

[balmy condor]

just don't bother if you're confused

subterfuge

is like

REALLY good

[mossy sundial]

oh, yea I feel like thats a given

double vanish makes a lot more sense with MA

[balmy condor]

subterfuge being good makes double vanish good

not really great

but like

[mossy sundial]

without ma i feel like its a meme

[balmy condor]

what

[mossy sundial]

double vanish without MA feels like a meme to me but im trash so

[balmy condor]

I mean you still get iron wire and imp gar and carnage

but also you should be running MA in every key anyway cause it's just like

[dusty crescent]

this is what i'm do for GB

[balmy condor]

a good talent

[sharp trellis]

MA = Master Assasin ?

[dusty crescent]

i really like ttk tho

:C

[novel star]

Yea

[balmy condor]

yes

[novel star]

beat u

[balmy condor]

then drop sudden demise and get ttk

[mossy sundial]

I feel like SB is just so much more dmg tho

[sharp trellis]

For 11//12 keys would you recommend this build then ?

[mossy sundial]

I run this and swap IW -> MA + Lethality -> WaT on certain dungeons

[balmy condor]

okay well basically every data point you could reference disagrees

[novel star]

dropping iron wire

[stray adder]

at the end of the day, play what you want

[mossy sundial]

theres like 1 mob to kick in mists, waste of a talent there imho

[novel star]

make it 0

[mossy sundial]

iw doesnt work on that mob

[stray adder]

we're just ignoring the DR i guess

[novel star]

what mob are we talking about here

[novel star]

also true

[stray adder]

12 sec DR on a double guardian pack

[coral ibex]

yea but i could take sanguine for 1.3% more damage

[mossy sundial]

MA outperforms SB? been a while since I sim'd any talent build swaps

[stray adder]

you can lol

[balmy condor]

yes, that's why it's recommended

[mossy sundial]

the staghorn at the end, pretty sure it doesnt work on it

[mossy sundial]

hey fair enough, refer to early when I said im uninformed

ty king

[balmy condor]

yep

np

[novel star]

so the root that lasts 5 hours and is in like every maze pack

is not a relevant kick

only the staghorn kick matters

interesting

i respectfully disagree

[stray adder]

"I'm not taking IW, there this one pack at the end where IW does nothing"

just say you're a padder

[mossy sundial]

so 1 kick among 5 people? we'll manage

[stray adder]

[mossy sundial]

I take it in every dungeon cause i dont trust pugs

but there is an argument to be made against it in certain dungeons

[novel star]

sure but you can not have to manage if you simply take iw and solobolo it

instead of whatever irrelevant bingus dps talent

[fresh kelp]

enemies "silenced by garrote" deal less damage

guardians = not silencable

checkmate

[mossy sundial]

when youre timing a key by 1minute or less dps talents arent irrelevant

[stray adder]

oh shit

[stray adder]

you actually got me

I'm still running it

[coral ibex]

how many keys are you timing by less than 1 min with 0 deaths

[mossy sundial]

ppl just need to not be stupid and kick properly like every other dungeon group does without a rogue

[coral ibex]

are you title pushing

[mossy sundial]

trying to yes

[stray adder]

honestly bro nobody is playing the game for you, if you don't wanna take IW

do you bro

[balmy condor]

based

[mossy sundial]

I plan to lmao just making the case

[novel star]

NOT based. i will fucking KILL YOU if you don’t take iron wires.

in real life…

[stray adder]

screenshotted

sending to PD

have fun behind bars

[coral ibex]

penis department?

[novel star]

you got me

[real granite]

https://media.tenor.com/PJIrWxD70gEAAAAM/ada-ninjaz-ninjaz-are-coming.gif

[stray adder]

real

[novel star]

i like the hand

[stray adder]

you are done my friend

[novel star]

https://tenor.com/view/gato-barrigudo-matildo-gif-6008073825844751401

[hollow gust]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[west crown]

If only that’s how it actually worked

[keen spruce]

lowest rated rogue on stormrage that starts with a 3

[stray adder]

W

[novel star]

Ur name starts with an S not a 3

:failfish:

[keen spruce]

took 13.5 days sub time. speed running to quitting wow again

[keen spruce]

[novel star]

Ok sorry.

[stray adder]

in case you didnt notice, 3003 reads the same backward

[keen spruce]

[novel star]

it kinda looks like boob

haha :)

[west crown]

8008?

[keen spruce]

[shy pecan]

Nice to see you’re still retired

[keen spruce]

in my defense

[novel star]

No i dont think you can get that much io

[keen spruce]

I haven't appeared online since i resubbed

but apparently blizzard just

doesn't let that work

in many scenarios

[shy pecan]

[keen spruce]

so the word got out

[shy pecan]

This guy…

[keen spruce]

many friends were downbad for a handsome rogue with limited braincells

[west crown]

Can’t dodge logs . The logs reveal all shmeep

[stray adder]

shmeebidi rizz

[shy pecan]

Judging

[rotund oak]

Shmeepy actually ate denis the menace and mutated into something worse

worse than the 7 plagues of egypt

😂

joking ofc

[keen spruce]

[bronze pike]

i will not be taking iron wire today

[burnt zodiac]

Just hit 80, and also just got hero transmitter trink

when should i pop?

pre pull and with deathmark?

[wispy epoch]

At start of pull while you’re getting bleeds up

Then holding it for 30 seconds after so it lines up with death mark every time

[burnt zodiac]

Gotchu, thanks

i hate this trink but its so good on sims

[limpid tundra]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[vernal turret]

bleed build became much stronger in 11.0.5, even that it sims not that good (not sure why simc don’t like it), in 10+ keys i tried it and not feels behind hybrid in overall now, it allows to take all important new talents without sacrificing anything from core build, sb, ma, double vanish, ttk, iw

[balmy condor]

it became weaker comparatively in 11.0.5

the single target sucks

MA is good

TTK is good

MA competes with sanguine blades, which makes sanguine blades weaker, which then also hurts bleed damage

the build is fine

but saying that it became much stronger is ludicrous

[vernal turret]

MA not competes with sanguine blades in bleed build and that's the main thing

[balmy condor]

sure, it dropped arterial for it

that's fine

[vernal turret]

no, arterial dropped for Sudden Demise, i've tried with Arterial instead of Sudden Demise, but Sudden Demise feels stronger (at least for my self)
i dropped 2nd shiv for MA/SB

[balmy condor]

again

sure

that's fine

the build is fine

[shadow badger]

is it just me or can anyone never actually feel the effect of sudden demise other than when its randomly your top dps because it executed a bunch of targets.....

[balmy condor]

yeah probably

[shadow badger]

L

[shadow badger]

also eww no DTB or art poison 🤢 🤮

[jaunty dew]

https://tenor.com/view/fight-satan-south-park-s1e8-damien-gif-21523494

[vernal turret]

no DTB called bleed build 😄

[jaunty dew]

@balmy condor Just took a peep at the wowhead builds on the cheat sheet. Are we taking double vanish on m+ now? Cause of MA?
And on raid we go into forced induction over lethality?

[shadow badger]

cooked up this build today. any thoughts?

[balmy condor]

yes

[balmy condor]

yeah looks great bro go for it

[shadow badger]

This for M+

[shadow badger]

gunna go prog mythic kyveza with it ill let yall know how i do

[vernal turret]

you forgot to untalent deathmark for it to be perfect

[jaunty dew]

SB really competes with SD? I assume for CT?

[radiant kettle]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[west crown]

If only, this information was pinned

[shadow badger]

ur right its probably a wasted gcd i could use on more mutilates.

[balmy condor]

sure yeah

[shadow badger]

Better?

[vernal turret]

mutilate not maxed 🤮

[shadow badger]

hmmm ur right

think i got it with this one

[west crown]

Untalent MA for poison bomb for perfect symmetry

[shadow badger]

your so right

Symmetrical just as it should be.

[subtle tundra]

yes i played it in CoT and SoB

its fun

[normal mist]

You've just quit at this point

[subtle tundra]

problem is, it feels bad when you play with aug

cause with aug it wants frontloaded dmg

[sharp viper]

he quit like weeks ago

[west crown]

“Of Recovered Mental”

[burnt zodiac]

Real quick, Wowhead guide says take belt/bracers crafted with double dawn, but im seeing hella rogues with weapon (+grip) and a dawnthread lining piece

[normal mist]

raiders

and emb don't fucking matter

[shadow badger]

ascendence be simming a little better in st

and yeah

that

it dont matter

people stick with what they made already

[normal mist]

^

[burnt zodiac]

still worth wep 1st for ilvl imguessing

(fresh 80)

[normal mist]

the difference between ascendance + grip VS double dawn for me was SO LITTLE it hurt

[normal mist]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime

Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[shadow badger]

people had crafted weps early on becuase it was a bigger ilvl upgrade, and then ascendence too becuase it simmed a little higher in st but there is almost no reason to change it.

[normal mist]

a printscreen of a printscreen

[dawn condor]

Not again

[burnt zodiac]

actually good advice, preciate it. Im just not gonna craft rn

[shadow badger]

whispyr using the midnight blue discord background a man of taste

[burnt zodiac]

ill be wasting runed crests on a fresh 80

[dawn condor]

Here we go again

[burnt zodiac]

just to keep it going

[burnt zodiac]

very nice

[shadow badger]

[analog frigate]

Hello, i have a quick question. If i decide to play Subterfuge talent, what spell should I use for AOE and ST from vanish ?

[normal mist]

you can still start ambush

OR garrote if you need immediate 3 silences

since you're in subterfuge you can do either way

[sudden sigil]

the skardyns farm is a rough one lol

[normal mist]

you bet

[analog frigate]

Oh i didnt know I can use CP sepender from stealth, im pretty new to rogue

[sudden sigil]

10 runs since yesterday

seen 0 drops

[normal mist]

i've NEVER seen a drop

[sudden sigil]

got both cloaks, all rings, and one chest

[normal mist]

got mine HERO from vault

[sudden sigil]

good fun so far

[analog frigate]

i did 50 runs 🙂

[sudden sigil]

Dont

Just dont

[analog frigate]

still dont have it

[normal mist]

If you're really new to rogue i'd advise reading the guides first

[sudden sigil]

Oh my tits

[analog frigate]

im commited

[analog frigate]

I did but theres not much about subterfuge talent

[sudden sigil]

well atleast i can farm crests while not getting my trinket

lol

[analog frigate]

or im blind

[normal mist]

Just think of subter this way:

• It increases the time you have to use IC / Imp garrote;
• It increases the time of MA;
• It allows you to either garrote or ambush first, since you're still in a "stealth" windows

Everything is situational

[fringe crater]

How does elusiveness work on top of evasion with bait and switch? Is it 20% overall damage reduction and 40% magic damage reduction in that case?

[normal mist]

I'm not a maths guy so i can't help you with that one king

[ripe sparrow]

How trinket is op and good for m plus ???

[keen spruce]

I haven't spec'd into subt yet

and haven't encountered a situation in keys where i feel like i need it

but like

just do it if you want

it's kinda neat

[normal mist]

I REALLY like it

[vernal turret]

I'm not saying "Hey Whispyr i got you" or shit like this, i was just wondering if you just simmed it or actually tested in dungeon runs
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9FZJD1vQjBjhPhpj3X3W5H
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mgWdhYr3gyKAdWbXFMEsvV
Dungeon slice sims are very strange to me (maybe it emulates like tank is taking a pack of 3 mobs at a time, idk), independent sims for ST/AoE are competitive now compared to how it was before 11.0.5

[hollow river]

I remember reading someone say it was a combined DR of 36%

[fringe crater]

Makes sense, 20% damage reduction on top of the 80% remaining damage

[hollow river]

I’m not sure specifically

That may have been feint + X actually

[cobalt sphinx]

yeah evasion looks like 36% dr

[hollow river]

I assume the school specific part of BnS doesn’t stack but no idea how that gets calculated

[subtle tundra]

thats 2 diff builds you linked

[fringe crater]

Feels rough having to drop cheat death, but elusiveness just makes you sooo tanky

I suppose the total AOE damage reduction from feint becomes 52% in that case? 0.6 - 0.2*0.6

[subtle tundra]

no

[fringe crater]

0.4+0.2*0.6 I mean

[vernal turret]

scroll down, it's comparison between 3 talent builds in ST / AOE, in ST it sims bleed top1, in AOE hybrid withot TTK as top1

[subtle tundra]

i dont believe they stack

[shadow badger]

This guys still trying to prove something

[subtle tundra]

true

but still

you can play bleed

nobody's stopping you

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice sims are a 2 min boss followed by light/heavy aoe pulls, with restealths and chain pulling

[subtle tundra]

whispyr cant put "play build in this exact dungeon when the tank does these pulls in this comp, cause its slightly better"

if he says bleed is good then 20 million billion fotms will be asking why doesnt casualaddict play it

or why is kush not playing it

you can play whatever

99% of the time

[shadow badger]

Also like play bleeds bro nobody stopping you. People have gotten title playing aff lock and CE playing surv hunter the games a sandbox.

[fickle light]

could anyone recommend boss frames that show rupture and garrote timers because the base blizzard ones don't. i like how i can hover over them to apply the poisons though

[modest apex]

does the recraft weapon thing still work?

[subtle tundra]

yes

[cunning needle]

what about why does varas play no IC and only kingsbane

[fiery basin]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[subtle tundra]

misinformation city

[vernal turret]

just trying to have a discussion, while got to read posts from some trolls

[subtle tundra]

(i want to play pre-df assa again... so i removed ic and kb)

[cunning needle]

nostalgia gamers smh

[subtle tundra]

.1% worse to drop ct

(ignore everything else it swaps)

i know what im trying

man i hope i play some 16s eventually

and play this

ill be whispyrs nightmare

[keen spruce]

tf am i looking at

[subtle tundra]

😼

[sudden sigil]

Another fucking ring from GB jesus christ

[fallen arch]

Is this a dslice sim?

[subtle tundra]

yes

[fallen arch]

Really

[subtle tundra]

yes i wouldnt lie

[fallen arch]

Dropping ct is actually viable

[subtle tundra]

no

dont listen to me

i am here to create chaos

[fallen arch]

I wouldn’t dare

[subtle tundra]

and make assa miserable

[worldly sail]

wtf i saw this varas guy playing double shiv instead of CT,,, why isn't this in guide?

[fallen arch]

[cunning needle]

🐒

[sudden sigil]

anyone have a good tracker for amount of ruptures? SInce i leanred yesterday we stop at 5?

[fallen arch]

Any wa pack tracks it for you

How many rups are out

[sudden sigil]

hmmm

[fallen arch]

!wa

[cunning needle]

luxthos does

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[fallen arch]

Dont the others do that as well?

[cunning needle]

no idea

install them and find out

[sharp trellis]

yop, since subterfuge this macro doesn't go steath during subterfuge 6s buff

[cunning needle]

i can only report on luxthos since i use luxthos

[cyan karma]

How much editing can you do in luxthos WA?

[fallen arch]

Same

[sharp trellis]

/Cast [stance:0] Stealth

[cyan karma]

To be specific… I want to make caustic splatter in the dynamic effects flash when it is “not” active… I think that would be cool

[hollow river]

Try /cast !stealth

[woven shore]

Is assa playable after the nerfs guys?

[lusty kraken]

no it's a dead spec

[subtle tundra]

kinda isnt

i cant beat ele

who got nerfed twice

huge

[dull prism]

i havent noticed the "nerf" at all

[radiant onyx]

I've been confused towards the changes with previous echoing reprimand and now 'supercharged combopoint'.

Does it work like echoing reprimand where you wanna hit the blue spot, or just add +2 combopoint damage to your ability?

[normal mist]

+2

[subtle tundra]

completely passive

[radiant onyx]

Alright so if i hit a 7 cp rupture, will it be a 9?

[subtle tundra]

yes

[radiant onyx]

Okay thanks!

[honest iris]

is caustic bugged? I was using caustic on Rashan'nan and it was not proccing at all

[balmy condor]

adds weren't close enough

[warped shard]

Does everyone have that massive energy starve after around 1 minute?

[balmy condor]

yes

[warped shard]

My dps just drops by 300k in that window.. its really disgusting

[balmy condor]

you decided to play a slow burst spec idk

that's how it works

you burst hard and then you run out of steam

[novel star]

can play outlaw if you want

that spec is very fast and very flat

no burst no energy

[warped shard]

Nah... it feels weird this expansion

[novel star]

[little tulip]

i think assa is ahead this week with the crit affix anyway

[novel star]

sin has definitely been slower before and weaker outside of burst before

but

[sharp trellis]

Fix thank you

[novel star]

in general its just not a new thing

[hollow river]

[lusty kraken]

assa in raid feels good, but in m+ ST fights not so much

[bleak spoke]

it's definitely been worse

but yeah single target in m+ feels rather anemic

[balmy condor]

single target in m+ is too fast

[lusty kraken]

do you even want to play the game bro

[balmy condor]

yes

[bleak spoke]

no it's not because you're killing stuff too slow madge

[novel star]

st in m+ sucks because i don’t get the funny blindside proc png on my screen

:(

[bleak spoke]

^actually that

that's literally it

[hollow river]

[bleak spoke]

blindside procs feel so good

i love funny parenthesis

and the nice ambush sound

[fickle light]

does anyone have bossframes that show rupture/garrote timers and are interactable

[lusty kraken]

free energy is always good

[novel star]

my favourite thing is when i get the funny banana png and then i hit it and i get another one

[bleak spoke]

bananananannanana

[novel star]

i acrually don’t like that

we have too much energy nowadays

back to back blindside just fucking overcaps u half the time

[lusty kraken]

I swear you assa mains are a bunch of boomers

and simply don't want to press buttons

[novel star]

well

[honest iris]

do i finish on 5 if i have supercharger available and darkest night?

[novel star]

i want to press buttons that cost energy

[bleak spoke]

i like staring at my screen and spinning it

[hollow river]

[novel star]

so i don’t sit at 300 energy and waste all the incoming energy

[bleak spoke]

the more energy i have the less i can do that

[lusty kraken]

press buttons faster 😠

[bleak spoke]

but also when i don't have buttons to press i get bored

[novel star]

banana

[bleak spoke]

do you see my dilemma

[novel star]

it’s just kind of boring to play a spec that’s supposed to be about maintenance but having so many resources u don’t have to work to maintain anything

is da real answer

if i wanted my skill expression to be how fast i press buttons i would be playing havoc

[bleak spoke]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, i will rupture every mob alive

[novel star]

and i do play havoc

[lusty kraken]

[novel star]

i just also play sin

and i don’t like when they get too similar

it’s wrong

sin should be slow

[quick hollow]

Are there any trinkets from BRD that are any good?

[bleak spoke]

funnily enough havoc is pretty similar to sin right now, in a sense

[novel star]

always has been

[bleak spoke]

just on a 40s cycle rather than 60s

they even have the drift on their 2 minutes etc

cuz of the ct (their ct) resets

[subtle tundra]

it feels bad cause 7max cp

i hate 7 max cp

i hate it

[sharp trellis]

do you have a good macro for kick / stun on focus ? with mod by example

[hollow river]

Is havoc still specing out of its main builder in favor of auto attack fury gen?

[stable hamlet]

u guys suffocate as well in m+ on pure single target on keys 12+ or its just me

[subtle tundra]

everyone does

assa st is bad in m+

[stable hamlet]

aa ok

[bleak spoke]

i never played legion but i would have liked to have like tried anticipation

and i think it woudl be good with tdn, conceptually

[bleak spoke]

yep demonblades is autotake

it's like hard to avoid

[hollow river]

Yeah I don’t like it

[bleak spoke]

it's positioned on the tree where ven wounds is for us

if that makes sense

[hollow river]

Ye

[opaque sigil]

Is it then a time to drop TTK in m+ and embrace SD/SB and simply replicate being unholydk with aoe dps?

[bleak spoke]

the thing is like you kinda overcap fury jsut playing the game if you're grabbin souls

[subtle tundra]

1 talent change wont double your aoe or anything

[bleak spoke]

https://i.imgur.com/ALsi7ip.png

it's like

it's a lil cooked

[lusty kraken]

is there a build for M+ where you sacrifice some aoe but you don't hate yourself on boss fights?

[novel star]

no

[subtle tundra]

well

[novel star]

you can drop SD for TTK but it won’t make you stop hating yourself

it will be better tho

[opaque sigil]

It is still a massive diff according to sim, like 8+%
Let blue guys handle bosses for me

[bleak spoke]

it feels better i don't think it actually is

is the thing

like with ttk vs. sd

[subtle tundra]

the blue guy i play with handles both bosses and packs

ele is really strong

🙂

[novel star]

chain lightning

[bleak spoke]

like it sims the same for me and i think i'm doin more dmg but i don't think i actually am, if that makes sense

[subtle tundra]

"no dps" => procs ascendance and does more than me with all cds up

[balmy condor]

I mean you could technically drop SBS/Doom and take ttk/dashing

that would like

maybe help

but sounds int

[opaque sigil]

Exactly the point I’m thinking right now
Idk if ttk does anything at this point

[subtle tundra]

sbs doom is good ST aswell

so its not likek its useless

[balmy condor]

dashing in AoE is especially horrid

[novel star]

surely bad for lethal dose

[bleak spoke]

idk i thought about dropping sbs alot but like, idk, i like opening fast

[balmy condor]

that talent is useless

[lusty kraken]

is SBS actually that good?

[balmy condor]

yes

[rotund oak]

yes

[bleak spoke]

yes and it also feels great imo

[subtle tundra]

ttk is not very very strong in m+ like in raid
cause it requires high energy regen

[rotund oak]

u basicly get the qol to double rup and ramp ur scent stacks

imagine fokx2 in ur opener

too slow

[bleak spoke]

fast rupture is really good feeling

i don't know in the long run if it's actually that much more dmg

but if the pack dies before you can finish popping like

[novel star]

bone spike is nice so you can hit slice and dice without having to mutilate first haha

[bleak spoke]

obviously it's alot more dmg but that' skind of 0 sum?

[subtle tundra]

i like sbs for quick ruptures for add boss fights

[lusty kraken]

you hit what

[bleak spoke]

yeh that's also true

[novel star]

slice and dice?

really important buff man !

[bleak spoke]

like you feel more useful on add fights

[lusty kraken]

don't you get slice and dice automatically when you envenom?

[novel star]

Idk i don’t read patch notes that’s liberal shit

[subtle tundra]

i feel like its really important when you play with aug so you dont have a 3rd dps to handle it

[bleak spoke]

i still have mind bound tbh, to like not waste my combo points if i ever have to run anywhere tbh

[cunning needle]

true, reading is for cowards

[bleak spoke]

mine*

jesus christ it's late

MIND GOBLIN

[stable hamlet]

its sbs better than MA?

[vestal crater]

yep

[opaque sigil]

what are even combopoints at this stage, we’re too far down the rabbit hole

[subtle tundra]

whats mind goblin?

[bleak spoke]

like i mena like between packs if it's a while or rp or something

[bleak spoke]

removed from the game, like mind sear, it was a modification on your mindbender

[lusty kraken]

well time to head back to Grim Batol prison

[bleak spoke]

[lusty kraken]

see you gamers

[subtle tundra]

ohhhhhhhhhh

[bleak spoke]

MIND GOBLIN DEEZ NUTZ

[subtle tundra]

yea i guess spriest had a lot of reworks

[bleak spoke]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[novel star]

cant stop thinking about havoc…

sin is over party

i’m outta here man

[bleak spoke]

wat

[novel star]

[opaque sigil]

idk, on the TTK debate, I ran some sims couple of days ago: TTK was like 3,5% ahead in pure ST (3 min, replicating avg boss time) while SD/SB were like 8-9% ahead in DSlice. Which is even bigger on bigger pulls/more trash.

Idk, seems like ttk is a bait at this stage for M+
While being godlike for ST builds

[bleak spoke]

dude watching the homie play vengeful retreats in city of threads literally breaks my headge why would you ever want to do that

[novel star]

idk havoc my only other class levelled rn

[bleak spoke]

level other stuff most classes are fun rn

[novel star]

and i raid on it in friendge guild

it’s fun

[bleak spoke]

i think i've levelled on everything but druid by this point and feral's fun too

[novel star]

i like the green hero spec

fel scarred

u go bomba

[bleak spoke]

yeh

[novel star]

wish we had any fun hero spec

[bleak spoke]

you kinda rip when you demonsurge though it sucks

[novel star]

[bleak spoke]

if you're nelf it's ite

but like

[novel star]

I ripped hella

[bleak spoke]

you get punished pretty hard

[novel star]

got upset at a tank earlier

cus i like

[bleak spoke]

for just playin the game because blizzard hates when tanks have threat

[novel star]

ripped and then afkd in nether

and still got meleed after

[fervent rune]

in between cds with TTK should we pool some before cds are back. I find myself running low on energy with mid fight kingsbanes

[bleak spoke]

good question is it better to just let your ttk drop off and reset the cycle coming into a small window @balmy condor

or is the ttk uptime just better

[novel star]

sim guy

answer this question NOW!

[bleak spoke]

whispyr will answer it when he pleases, if he pleases

and if i please him

[novel star]

whispyr will answer it when i please which is NOW!

[bleak spoke]

my personal inclination is to drop the ttk buff and pool @fervent rune but idk if it's right

[opaque sigil]

embrace feelcraft, that’s what important

[bleak spoke]

cuz i assume like if you get 2 stacks as you start your KB it's good

cuz you'll stack up the kb faster or whtaever

and it's kind of lossless?

but what i mean is more like you drop the buff, so you can get 2 stacks before it starts?

[balmy condor]

by the smallest of technicalities it's better to drop it

[bleak spoke]

ah okay

[balmy condor]

but realistically the answer is just like

[bleak spoke]

so in a sense it doesn't matter really how we play it, which is probably for the best

[balmy condor]

do whatever

[bleak spoke]

yeah

lmao

[opaque sigil]

that’s the spirit

[novel star]

what if they removed the envenom buff

from the game

[bleak spoke]

remove deez

[novel star]

instead of trying to make it work

[balmy condor]

like when I simmed this last, the base margin of error of like 35,000 iterations

wasn't good enough

[bleak spoke]

that's a lot of pulls

[opaque sigil]

and added roll the bones to assa

[bleak spoke]

[novel star]

Naw

[subtle tundra]

ill just get full energy for shivs and kb

ez

and blow my load in those

[opaque sigil]

finally the dreams of playing combat daggers will be alive

[novel star]

i’ll blow my load in you bro

sorry

i won’t do that

[subtle tundra]

thanks

[bleak spoke]

lowkey i wish some of the energy budget in DM was put into KB itself but

[novel star]

unless

[bleak spoke]

they isn't gonna do that

[balmy condor]

honestly the worst part about pooling logic is that while it has to exist or else sims trolling, I can't actually find a feasible way to make it any better than like 0.5%, and 400 different ways of spinning it is all 0.4-0.5%

[bleak spoke]

yeh

[balmy condor]

so it ends up just being like yeah technically it's 0.5% but you can blindly stumble your way into 0.45%

[bleak spoke]

like it generally believes pooling is decent but it can't seem to figure out how to do it optimally i imagine

in the sense of

different pooling logics still kind of end up being similar in value?

[balmy condor]

in the sense of envenom uptime in sims is nearing 170%

[bleak spoke]

yeah

i mean

it's a lot

[novel star]

isn’t it around that in logs 2

game is just piss bro

[lavish geyser]

When it comes to prio, would i rather have CT up first or CS up?

[balmy condor]

I actually found tech to increase average KB stacks by like 0.06 and I was like yo I did it right?

like this is big diffy

[bleak spoke]

https://i.imgur.com/UmoXY6m.png idk it's like kind of crazy

[balmy condor]

those profiles are 1,200 dps apart

[bleak spoke]

like i don't think i played particularly good

[balmy condor]

margin of error is +-510

[bleak spoke]

and i'm pretty sure i got picked for a debuff or something

this is a random nexus princess log

like

lmao

[novel star]

spec is cringe

[bleak spoke]

completely cooked

[balmy condor]

like I optimize for kingsbane

[molten flicker]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter

I optimize for envenom

doesn't matter

I optimize for rapid injection instead of uptime

doesn't matter

[bleak spoke]

kinda cringe

[balmy condor]

I optimize to be above 50 for sanguine, it's worse

[bleak spoke]

i wonder if the dmg outflow is too rounded off

like

[balmy condor]

I optimize to vanish last 6 of kb, kinda doesn't matter either

[bleak spoke]

you gain too much here when you lose something there

you know what i mean

like you're not punished for playing in certain ways

when it feels like instinctively one of these ways should be better

like optimizing for rapid injection actually sounds like kinda fun

in a world where your uptime on the buff isn't a gorillion right

like you pool deep and then go bam bam bam

that's fun

[balmy condor]

I mean it feels like blizzard took all their lego pieces, built something, but then never actually clicked the pieces together

so it's just kind of a lego soup

[bleak spoke]

it's definitely soupy

[balmy condor]

like ttk is cool

[bleak spoke]

yeh that's the thing

[balmy condor]

rapid injection is cool

[bleak spoke]

i really think it is actually cool

[balmy condor]

sanguine is cool

there's a lot of cool

[bleak spoke]

but it would be cooler if it mattered

[balmy condor]

and it's just all whatever

[subtle tundra]

feels like nothing interacts with anything strong enough to have actual synergy

[bleak spoke]

sometimes i wish rogue didn't feel better than literally any other class i've ever played ;-;