dont press fan of knives
#assassination
still steeple
coral ibex
2 shivs
coral ibex
cooldown sequence is DM-shiv-KB
arctic socket
Lmao don’t worry about pressing vanish
coral ibex
and then shiv at the end of kb like in m+
thats really the only diff
shiv before kb
and dont fan with VV
rotund oak
difference compared to what?that sounds like raid vs m+
arctic socket
The rotation
coral ibex
this
arctic socket
@rotund oak
arctic socket
he already knows though
arctic socket
No
arctic socket
Press Fok on cd
pallid bough
Yea
arctic socket
Sometimes use poison knife
pallid bough
Ambush replaces mut for free
vernal gate
Guys how do I outpad a ret/warrior in 9-10s
rotund oak
Guys how do I outpad a ret/warrior in 9-10s
trust the heart of the cards
jk,just press ur buttons
winged sun
Press Fok on cd
pallid bough
Guys how do I outpad a ret/warrior in 9-10s
Tell them to hold CDs
rotund oak
pad like they do
pallid bough
Only press mut to apply caustic splatter
arctic socket
Are you trolling or being serious
cinder quartz
its zeross so i assume trolling
arctic socket
Watching videos
vernal gate
pipe down
arctic socket
Where’s that 60 second video at
pallid bough
You Mut once on a ruptured target to apply caustic splatter
And then
Fok envenom
And then reapply caustic
cinder quartz
Where’s that 60 second video at
put whispyr vid on x8 and that might work
grim jay
no
coral ibex
yep sounds right
cinder quartz
raid aoe is just single target but you have spatter on your main target and fok to build instead of mut
cinder quartz
that's also kinda m+ but keep CT up as well and rupture if target will live
cinder quartz
na
winged sun
i assume crimson tempest on adds? or on st too
cinder quartz
i don't think any boss we take CT
spice spire
On st when mod is up
cinder quartz
even ovi i dont see it
dull cloak
CT is for pad
winged sun
On st when mod is up
whats mod
arctic socket
@winged sun press ambush, garrote, multi rupture,SnD, Echoing,multi to 5+, to envenom dm shiv kb tea
cinder quartz
actually i havent looked at mythic, maybe they live long enough and there's enought o make CT good
spice spire
It’s crangled on wh but check in game
arctic socket
Yall lucky asf being able to press CT on adds
Don’t have big aoe chads and it shows
spice spire
This build high key demonic.
It’s recommend for ovi iirc
grim jay
Yall lucky asf being able to press CT on adds
they are talking about mythic
arctic socket
Even on mythic
pallid bough
I mean even on mythic
still steeple
guys i have a serious question
pallid bough
Those adds die way too fast
spice spire
Serious answer
arctic socket
Have you not done it recently?
still steeple
what does pandemic mean in the context of bleeds
cinder quartz
people are running it, idk if that means its better
spice spire
what does pandemic mean in the context of bleeds
!pandemic
prisma monolithBOT
Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs
still steeple
ty
arctic socket
I’m sure you definitely get value from it, but it’s better to just let caustic carry you and continue to st blast
pallid bough
People shouldn’t be running it but it’s pointless
I mean the value is minimum
Compared to just going straight st
And killing before the 2-3rd last egg set
The boss*
arctic socket
We have 2 fdk and 3 fury warriors
pallid bough
With caustic
cinder quartz
just let your big chads carry
arctic socket
winged gust
do yall think deathstalker or fatebound is better for m+ cuz alot of people are saying different things
cinder quartz
and you lay a foundational aoe
pallid bough
Okay yeah see that is even worse than mine
I had 2 DKs and 1 Warrior
And adds still got deleted
1 was Unholy too
grim jay
We have 2 fdk and 3 fury warriors
my condolences
spice spire
We have 2 fdk and 3 fury warriors
Why do you have 5 melee aoe classes
arctic socket
Why do you have 5 melee aoe classes
The dks swap to unholy
grim jay
do yall think deathstalker or fatebound is better for m+ cuz alot of people are ...
deathstalker for survivability alone already
arctic socket
And fury war just go burr
spice spire
Even then
pallid bough
Frost dk actually does a lot lmao
arctic socket
Why don’t you
spice spire
Why do you have 2 dks and 3 warriors
arctic socket
Why doesn’t your group
pallid bough
Why not
arctic socket
Have em
spice spire
Because there’s only 20 slots for a mythic run
pallid bough
Arm go brrrrrr
timber meadow
with being able to upgrade a 2nd ring for free via crafting/recrafting a single ring kinda feels like rings go up in value for spark crafts
cinder quartz
after nerf isnt it kinda just "delete parasites = epic win"?
cobalt sphinx
high representation of greater apes in that raid
kindred hinge
Alt army. Get a profession use concentration twice a week to craft r3 with r2. You get 50/100k a day
spice spire
Idk dude historically melee is minimized to like 7 spots max.
5 being taken by two classes is pretty 
kindred hinge
Or boost keys
grim jay
or buy tokens
cobalt sphinx
enchanting earns about 30g per concentration, and you get like 300 concentration per day
spice spire
or buy tokens
🐳
fervent dirge
hey. how you min max kingsbane . how does it rly work
molten crow
Ok im sure this question has been asked thousands of time, but how do I sim myself correctly? Im not sure of any of the commands for the channel, sorry
arctic socket
Ok im sure this question has been asked thousands of time, but how do I sim myse...
Raidbots and the addon simc
Use top gear to compare items
spice spire
Download simulationcraft and use raidbots? Or like sim correctly for m+?
molten crow
Sorry I am being unclear, how do I sim myself correctly for m+?
cinder quartz
hey. how you min max kingsbane . how does it rly work
envenom before hand->dm+pot+skardyns->shiv->KB->tea->spend envenoms and ignore energy pooling completely->shiv when it falls off->tea->envenom as many time as you can->KB massive tick at end. you want to optimize your # of melees during kingsbane's duration since it builds stacks based on poison applications, mainly from melees. If you can get PI, that's the time to get it
fervent dirge
Profit
when i have deathmark active kingsbane deals 4.5-5mil dmg but without that its max 3mil
molten crow
Thanks boo
arctic socket
Dungeon slice is fine to sim with? Thought it was patchwork
spice spire
Anytime bbgirl
cinder quartz
when i have deathmark active kingsbane deals 4.5-5mil dmg but without that its m...
KB builds based off bleeds as well, and DM dupes your bleeds, so youre getting double the help from there
spice spire
Dungeon slice is fine to sim with? Thought it was patchwork
For m+ all sims are a tool to measure
There are 600 ways to frame what you want/need
DS is fine
static glacier
envenom before hand->dm+pot+skardyns->shiv->KB->tea->spend envenoms and ignore e...
I prefer using tea after I mut 1-2 times post kingsbane before env
cinder quartz
KB builds based off bleeds as well, and DM dupes your bleeds, so youre getting d...
er wrong way to say that
spice spire
It’s the most middle of the road version
static glacier
Feels like before then energy waste is inevitable
cinder quartz
it doesn't build based off bleeds
but you get a ton more energy since you have double bleed ticks
cinder quartz
I prefer using tea after I mut 1-2 times post kingsbane before env
ideally yeah you're not wasting energy off tea
and your mastery buff is on slightly larger KB ticks
spice spire
Yea during shiv
cinder quartz
yeah thats why we prefer it there
tight root
!craft
prisma monolithBOT
Preferences currently are wrist/belt/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for
Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" in raid, but has ramp time and is worse in m+
2x Dawnthread (wrist/belt) is generally the best in m+ and not far behind of Ascencion/Banding for raids. Equal in single target at 80% uptime
Craft a dagger if you're unlucky and don't get one and are down bad and crying about your pathetic little 580 main hand dagger. Put Ascencion on it
If you have a big dagger in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer
spice spire
Kb was nerfed
You guys are fixating so hard on that
It’s tea during shiv for energy
cinder quartz
was it like "giga 99 stack KB loves mastery"
spice spire
For ST
cinder quartz
versus weakling 50 stack w/e
spice spire
We pool so much and lack so much energy now that we prio that > secondaries
narrow basalt
/wa
arctic socket
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
narrow basalt
!!!!!!!!!
arctic socket
We pool so much and lack so much energy now that we prio that > secondaries
Mastery gud
solar orbit
I thought we tea during shiv for mastery
arctic socket
We do but the more important part is the energy it gives
Mastery is a very nice bonus
solar orbit
Then tea auto-triggering on 11.0.5 will be horrible
timber meadow
tea is like an oasis in a desert
spice spire
Mastery gud
Energy is better
arctic socket
Energy is better
Just pool forehead
royal lantern
ill hop on you
arctic socket
Gold?
grim jay
whats osrs even
royal lantern
runescape
grim jay
oh lord
kindred hinge
we play a 20y old mmo
Worse some of us have spend 20y on a mmo
arctic socket
Old school RuneScape
spice spire
whats osrs even
To you it’s just RuneScape you old fuck
grim jay
why did I ask
royal lantern
Worse some of us have spend 20y on a mmo
worse some of us are 20
arctic socket
Tell someone’s a boomer
grim jay
its fucking bad
arctic socket
If I wanna afk cutting trees for months
runic hinge
we play a 20y old mmo
That’s older than zeross
kindred hinge
Daoc or nothing
arctic socket
Yo get a beaver pet let me
spice spire
Yo get a beaver pet let me
Unfortunate combo of words big dog
dawn heath
Are we supposed to cast fan of knives on single target when we get clear the witness proc?
over mutilate?
winged pumice
guys icyveins and wowhead m+ builds are different which would you go with?
grim jay
I dont think there are many games that turned me off as quickly as albion and runescape
looks like something you couldve played on your nintendo ds
spice spire
Are we supposed to cast fan of knives on single target when we get clear the wit...
If you have VV, no
pure moth
guys icyveins and wowhead m+ builds are different which would you go with?
Wowhead
solar orbit
we play a 20y old mmo
imagine the clowns that played a 13y moba sobs
pure moth
Lol
kindred hinge
To quote whysper clear the witness can be a single target increase when there is more than one target
When one target and no VV it is up to the reader
spice spire
Just like CT ST 
pure moth
I’d never disrespect seli like that.
You changed Kriz. Damn.
Don't they talk to each other?
But yes I've changed for sure
grim jay
Just like CT ST <:SmileDog:1181912280053600256>
you can CT DN
spice spire
Don't they talk to each other?
But yes I've changed for sure
Haven’t we all big dog and yeah they do
Updates are diff tho iirc
Idk
They’re both German haters
grim jay
They’re both German haters
schweig, du unhold. das ist gotteslästerug
dapper cradle
super cool how toxic bomb covers the ground effect on 3rd boss of NW
sick mechanic
spice spire
schweig, du unhold. das ist gotteslästerug
Stille, Kätzchen, die Erwachsenen sprechen
dawn heath
Why do i see top rogues casting 10-15 fans on 3-4min kills on pure st?
If u dont use it?
solar orbit
Why do i see top rogues casting 10-15 fans on 3-4min kills on pure st?
maybe poison app?
spice spire
Why do i see top rogues casting 10-15 fans on 3-4min kills on pure st?
They don’t run VV
And use it on CTW procs
dawn heath
Confusing
dawn heath
I do really well in keys but my st in raids is so bad i am doing something wrong not sure what
cobalt sphinx
do you have the right build
spice spire
was that google translate?
Yes it was
grim jay
Gamers be like
if only one build is viable: muuuuuh diversity fucking game sucks duuuuh
if multiple things are viable: everything is confusing
spice spire
I can eyeball it and see it’s not quite right
Idk what’s off
Don’t speak or write German
grim jay
I can eyeball it and see it’s not quite right
tbf it is right
spice spire
But it looks unconjugated?
solar orbit
Gamers be like
if only one build is viable: muuuuuh diversity fucking game suck...
The main issue is, people don't read lol
spice spire
Sprechen feels like it should be different
grim jay
I mean you would probably say Schweig instead of Stille, but its pretty right
grim jay
Sprechen feels like it should be different
nah thats right
solar orbit
Do you know how many times you could hold off helping people if they just read?
cobalt sphinx
lol why pay for college when you can just go to the library and read
solar orbit
lol why pay for college when you can just go to the library and read
Unironically, you can get a CS job without going to college as long as you put in the work of learning it on your own
grim jay
Damn Germanic languages
nothing will surprise me anymore. I had latin for 6 years
spice spire
Took it for a year.
Spanish for 3
dawn heath
My kingsbanes are smaller than they should be
spice spire
Didn’t take a foreign language in college
grim jay
My kingsbanes are smaller than they should be
dw son, everyones kingsbane is different
spice spire
My kingsbanes are smaller than they should be
Do you have shiv active over the entire time frame
grim jay
some are big, some are small
dapper cradle
my kingsbane curved right at the tip
odd jewel
I do really well in keys but my st in raids is so bad i am doing something wrong...
Same for me
I don’t understand when I need to pull energy
grim jay
I don’t understand when I need to pull energy
!pooling
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
TLDR:Maintain max uptime on Envenom
- For Fatebound, Sanguine Blades is typically much better than Deathstalker. For this reason, if you can't maintain Envenom uptime anymore, you should build combo points, then reset your energy back to around 70% before maintaining again.
- For Deathstalker, try to stay under 50% as much as possible while maxing out Envenom uptime. Single target builds play Vicious Venoms instead of Sanguine Blades as well.
The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more Envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.
kindred hinge
Btw post a raid log some people are usually happy to have a look
spice elk
hi everyone, do we have a haste cap for m+ and/or raid ?
dawn heath
Dont know what fight to post really Queen is such a weird one
But i green logged for my item level
spice spire
hi everyone, do we have a haste cap for m+ and/or raid ?
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.
- Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
- Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
- Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results
dawn heath
But in keys im doing 2mil overall
I really know my aoe rotation but the raid st build
Legit ass
odd jewel
[Read About Pooling](<https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/...
What about in dungeons when people run both sanguine and deathstalker and you’re on a single target boss, do you try to stay above 50%? Or not worry about it
grim jay
But i green logged for my item level
ilvl logs are the worst shit
kindred hinge
But i green logged for my item level
Item level is not great to look at. Parse in general are not either due to every raid being different but especially item level
kindred hinge
Posting a log would allow to see if there is some glaring error
grim jay
doesnt matter
runic hinge
What about in dungeons when people run both sanguine and deathstalker and you’re...
Deathstalker wants you to envenom as much as possible. So you want to clip but stay under 50 so you get more envenoms out.
grim jay
they still suck
runic hinge
Whispyr had a 99 log but it was 94 for ilvl. Like ilvl parse is fake
odd jewel
Deathstalker wants you to envenom as much as possible. So you want to clip but s...
Ok ok gotcha ty
kindred hinge
Your gear doesnt matter when for example parse on ovinax for us is beavily dependent on raid comp rather than skill. Its id one of the most extreme exemple but it fit
grim jay
Whispyr had a 99 log but it was 94 for ilvl. Like ilvl parse is fake
thats not an actual accurate representation
but ye
cobalt sphinx
i got a 99 and i used shiv after kingsbane every time
runic hinge
I mean the sample size is smaller for ilvl
cobalt sphinx
because i never play with 2 shivs
kindred hinge
I got a 99 and I roll my head on the keyboard and make a lot of mistakes.
Parse doesntatter log is good to learn from your mistakes
cinder quartz
record yourself 
runic hinge
When you’re top 1% for assa rogues but then since your ilvl parse is only against 250 other rogues it’s gonna be different
cinder quartz
i recommend this if you don't like micromanaging your recording https://www.warcraftrecorder.com/
onyx crow
!sim
cinder quartz
i used it for keys
dawn heath
Its kinda amazing how i can only play Assa in the m+ build when i swap talents i just suck
coral ibex
or if you have an nvidia gpu you can have instant replay save the last x minutes
you can set x to be pretty high too
oh its only up to 20 mins so you wont get a full key nvm
undone eagle
wasnt df whetstone 3q cheap as fuck? why the hell is the new whetstone 500-800g? 😂
wf is over sink it boys..
grim jay
because the materials are expensive
they are even way more expensive than what the whetstone costs
cobalt sphinx
Yeah price of whetstone is 1/4 of a null stone, it’s gonna be held up by null stones being held up by other crafts
sturdy plank
Anyone annoyed AF when xalatath just pops out keeping you from restealthing
Like wtf leave me alone
spring moat
Your gear doesnt matter when for example parse on ovinax for us is beavily depen...
true. i did 1.3 mil on ovi heroic and got a green parse.. like whaaat
kindred hinge
Anyone annoyed AF when xalatath just pops out keeping you from restealthing
Wednesday morning deplete when the add prevented a shroud
odd jewel
because of darkest night do you only use envenom at max combo points or is it worth to use at 6 sometimes?
dapper cradle
wish we could turn off other people's animations
seeing the ret pala diarrhea
literally can't see anything
surely there's a WA for that?
misty torrent
What would an opening rotation look like for AoE in Mythics?
Do you just go usual opener and then after Deathmark start: FoK, CT -> FoK, Envenom?
solar orbit
What would an opening rotation look like for AoE in Mythics?
Do you just go usu...
I usually do kingsbane and save DM for bosses
Granted I haven't done high keys where the trash will live for a lot longer
but yes, you usually just spam envenom once you put caustic on main target
woven shore
What is considered good / exceptional logs/ players in wow by your experience?
misty torrent
but yes, you usually just spam envenom once you put caustic on main target
Alright thanks a lot
misty hull
Hey I wondered if I should craft a second 636 dagger ? My offhand is 6/6 hero track. I’ve not seen anyone with two crafted weapons so I wondered if there is a reason
woven shore
Offhand is the lest important item
solar orbit
What is considered good / exceptional logs/ players in wow by your experience?
Reckful sobs
solar orbit
Hey I wondered if I should craft a second 636 dagger ? My offhand is 6/6 hero tr...
Did you farm the gilded from keys or from mythic raids?
misty hull
Ah ok ty, I’ve just started doing 9’s/10’s so got my main hand up to 636, should I then upgrade trinkets ?
dawn heath
can someone roast my st rotation im clueless
misty hull
Did you farm the gilded from keys or from mythic raids?
From mythic dungeons
dawn heath
i recorded a video
woven shore
St?
dawn heath
single target
woven shore
Ah
Show me
dawn heath
misty torrent
https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/iOqKwLijzT_W05RtT/d1337ppMBjce?in...
Man... I wish I did that kind of damage on ST. I probably should be? I'm just bad at clicking buttons apparently
woven shore
Does it show what abilities ur using somewhere?
However
What i noticed is you didnt press Tea on Kingsbane
You used Mut then tea
And i think you used your vanish very late if im not wrong
dawn heath
ye i have no idea how to use my vanish
cinder quartz
https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/iOqKwLijzT_W05RtT/d1337ppMBjce?in...
you'd be fine here using envenom instead of building to 7
would get you your DN 1 GCD quicker
woven shore
Look up
Assa rogue Guide on Wowhead
pine zephyr
Most people in raider.io m+ ladder have used dagger embellishment(ascension).Can anyone explain why? As i've seen here it's best to use 2x dawnthread for both waist and wrist
woven shore
It shows you how to do your rotation
solar orbit
ye i have no idea how to use my vanish
you use vanish to refresh improved garrote during kingsbane + dm
strange python
Not Australia….
dawn heath
ok
solar orbit
Most people in raider.io m+ ladder have used dagger embellishment(ascension).Can...
they're probably also raiders, in raids you use ascension over 2x dawnthread
cinder quartz
https://medal.tv/games/world-of-warcraft/clips/iOqKwLijzT_W05RtT/d1337ppMBjce?in...
also missed garrote uptime towards the end of KB. it will naturally be falling off around then, just try to refresh it after an envenom after the 1st imp garrote falls off
pine zephyr
they're probably also raiders, in raids you use ascension over 2x dawnthread
Makes sense
cinder quartz
like orihalco said, you can vanish to get a new imp garrote
solar orbit
a good rule is using garrote when you have 6 seconds left for pandemic efects
its usually at that time where you vanish to refresh the garrote
dawn heath
i just tried to copy the opener i saw someone else make, why do we want to use envenom once before going into our cds?
cinder quartz
so you can have it active while your CDs are ticking
you want the buff to have better poison applications while you're locked into casting your CDs
normal mist
i just tried to copy the opener i saw someone else make, why do we want to use e...
envenom buff into KB
cinder quartz
i'd say it doesn't super duper matter but its better
woven shore
Your rotation should be :
Ambush, garrot, ER, rapture, sad, dm, shiv tea+ trinkets etc, Kingsbane
Muti envenom
Get 7 cp
Envenom to reset mark
If Shiv ends use it again
And vanish to reapply garrot if its at 4seconds
Thats atleast how i do it
solar orbit
Would it be better to spam garrote during imp garrote window purely for the CP?
I should probably check how much dmg is muti
solar orbit
i guess that's a no lol
cinder quartz
viscid light
Wasn’t tea skipped if you would overcap energy by using it?
peak bobcat
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
slate crown
<:vomitpepe:1002370015082852383>
Member when it was bugged and gave 5cp and was a slight dps gain to the apl to spam garrote as your builder during dance? I member
(For the 2 days before the bug was fixed)
solar orbit
what piece from set do we drop if we already have 4set?
spice surge
Whatever piece you have thats higher ilvl than your tier
crude sequoia
hexed frost
Absolute splatter supremacy
safe ore
People who play Sin in M+: how often do you want to Alt+F4?
soft shale
i think sin is quite fine now
safe ore
I hate it. Idk if I’m doing something wrong (probably), but it feels like I have to do so much setup just to get damage out. And if the tank chain pulls really aggressively all key, I just want to close the game 🙂
lethal arrow
People who play Sin in M+: how often do you want to Alt+F4?
never typically?
sin feels pretty good in m+
rotund oak
I hate it. Idk if I’m doing something wrong (probably), but it feels like I have...
sin is very smooth,real problems begin when a tank pulls 3 mobs at a time when u play sub
hexed frost
I hate it. Idk if I’m doing something wrong (probably), but it feels like I have...
me when I play a one button class where I macro everything
mint tinsel
Is there any amount of haste I need as assasin or should I just stack all crit/mas?
safe ore
Your tea and rupture on kill targets will give you energy. You don’t really need haste
Just have to manage it a little
royal lantern
me when I play a one button class where I macro everything
tf are you macroing as assa
hexed frost
People who play Sin in M+: how often do you want to Alt+F4?
Caustic itself carries your dps without any CDs so much lmao. Doing 3M without CDs and 5-7M with cooldowns on a pack is something very few specs can do, even if their CD burst is higher.
safe ore
Does anyone know the spell ID of Caustic Splatter while it’s applied to a target?
dull cloak
tf are you macroing as assa
onuse with deathmark
normal mist
I just met a rogue bro in a normal raid run, we both playing warrior
hexed frost
tf are you macroing as assa
This was for OP who said the rotation is difficult
normal mist
funny how some rogues gravitate towards warrior
normal mist
i like fury
strange python
yooo taco day and vodka day lets gooo
honest pelican
saw a 622 rogue in dorn, had a 639 tier some other 636. then double 606 rings vet track, just feels bad
glad to know my 2 toons arent the only ones stuck with crit/mastery rings that are impossible to upgrade without the higher track of same one
lost wolf
hah im in the same boat with the rings
eternal bramble
hey is there a channel to send log for analysis
honest pelican
that umbriss band is just so good
cobalt sphinx
i got a lot of mythic pieces but they didn't have crit/mastery so i just disenchanted them all
short comet
I’ve got fat rings but no trinket luck stuck with a champion candlestick and void reapers
daring hill
someone else has the problem that he cant use mutilate anymore while backstab procc ? it will change my mutilate to backstab whatever i do... (sometimes i dont want to use the backstab proc immediately)
crisp pine
wait did sepsis work with subterfuge?
I thought it was only one stealth ability
not actual stealth
daring hill
i could definitly save it, until i changed some stuff in my UI... its to apply caustic spatter
scenic nacelle
saw a 622 rogue in dorn, had a 639 tier some other 636. then double 606 rings ve...
ye rings were literally the last thing I looted
slate crown
i could definitly save it, until i changed some stuff in my UI... its to apply c...
Ambush applies spatter
And I promise
daring hill
well today i learned 😄
slate crown
You couldn’t save it
subtle tundra
ye rings were literally the last thing I looted
i mean... if you are up to date with crests you can craft rings
daring hill
thanks
scenic nacelle
i mean... if you are up to date with crests you can craft rings
naw im good now, got my umbriss and roving 🙂
swift wing
How do I sim bubbling wax?
doesnt show for my dropdown in raid bots and couldnt find a pin with the sim code thing
normal mist
its like a 1% dps
its nothing major
its just ... something that exists and its free
slate crown
If you want to save gold by pickpocketing use wax.
If you want to spend gold to get your consumable instantly, use whetstone.
That’s the sim
normal mist
@slate crown Do you play warrior or paladin? i forgot
lost wolf
is it worth using DF whetstones and runes?
coral ibex
just go pickpocket some wax
rotund oak
not rly no
slate crown
<@228712200385200130> Do you play warrior or paladin? i forgot
Neither now really. My only 80 is my rogue. All of my other characters are profession mules
I have a warrior
normal mist
Neither now really. My only 80 is my rogue. All of my other characters are profe...
Oh lol i for some reason was under the impression you played one of those two i mentioned
slate crown
But I don’t really play it now
normal mist
my bad
lost wolf
got it thanks
normal mist
charred obsidian
How many targets before Caustic Spatter > Internal Bleeding
charred obsidian
really?
rotund oak
yup
rotund oak
yeah its rly good
uneven venture
yo why does assassination rogue drop so hard from Heroic raid to Mythic raid?
cobalt sphinx
Probably because you are getting farmed by wcl statistics graphs
rotund oak
idk what drop means tbh
rogue isnt rly good this tier,most kills now are made by sub coz
there arent many kills anyway and sub works better in coordinated groups
i think sin is rly good,ppl should believe it more
heavy trail
how to avoid getting pulled out of stealth on the first boss of COT ?
lost wolf
op
spice surge
Idk that heal is so fake 
royal lantern
yo why does assassination rogue drop so hard from Heroic raid to Mythic raid?
cus rogue is not that great in raids
rn
coral ibex
we are atrophic bot in raid
slate crown
We had our time in the sun in Df s3 so we can’t have nice things again for a while
vestal wren
cus rogue is not that great in raids
i think its interessting
rogue could very well be just one spec
vestal wren
because we rarely have situations where rogue has one good spec
and 2 bad ones
like legion sure
bfa too
but ever since then
it was either all good or all shit
rotund oak
outlaw was good on atbt,idk man
rotund oak
antorus the burning throne
vestal wren
otulaw the least
rotund oak
was legion
rotund oak
hallow pelican
I cant remember a time where Sin was consistently top 3
vestal wren
that made you spam fok and nothing else
vestal wren
that bug fas fixed and sin got a buff
rotund oak
one for each spec
vestal wren
and it was a sin tier ever after
so atbt was sin tier 100%
tomb was sub tier with still 1/3 of the playerbase on sin
only exception in the 2 xpacs
rotund oak
outlaw did as much dmg as sin in atbt idk
vestal wren
unless you think of zhul as its own tiuer
hallow pelican
that was sub
hallow pelican
it was also 3 xpacs ago
rotund oak
sin was buffed like,when we were on aggramar idk
vestal wren
to go from mythic to mythic
rotund oak
but we did play more sin afterwards for sure
rotund oak
yup
vestal wren
and your biggest gains ended up in tier sets
so you needed a good tier set to be good
sub tier was horrible
so it was initially still played because of carry over power
but once tier was more common for other classes
you sucessively had people switch away
the buff due to the bug was the final nail in the coffin
and it turned into a sin tier
i know because we did tell the balance team back then to buff all specs to keep the relative balance active
which they obviousely didn't
rotund oak
I am confused on the question mark? Is it supposed to be echoing reprimande?
no
we press er after snd
into envenom=>dm=>shiv...
hallow pelican
its telling you what to do .. Darkest Night Proc? then build to 7 and envenom
frozen iris
How can you build to 7 combo points besides landing on a charged point? Is that what its saying?
royal lantern
all 3 sucked
the perfect balance
rotund oak
thats the only way to proc DN
royal lantern
same with covenants
frozen iris
Okay. Thats what i figured it was saying but thanks for the clarification
royal lantern
all covenants where equal at SL launch, cus they all sucked
vestal wren
i mean its a controversial take
rotund oak
Okay. Thats what i figured it was saying but thanks for the clarification
u r welcome fam
vestal wren
but sin wasn't that bad in sl/df
it was always good in st, even if it wasn't the #1 played
vestal wren
usually ahead of sub
in SL s1 it was the best after buffs
s2 all 3 ended up good
s3 sin was theoretically bis
frozen iris
Ive been sucking ass this tier. Didnt make it past trial phases for mythic
hallow pelican
SL was fucking horsehsit all the way through. The covenants were shit, torghast was fucked, legendaries sucked...
vestal wren
or well gameplay with tier
hallow pelican
there was a single good aspect of SL
rotund oak
there was a single good aspect of SL
if u say korthia ill block u
hallow pelican
if u say korthia ill block u
another rep farm with shiny mounts? sign me up! Said no Rogue ever
rotund oak
another rep farm with shiny mounts? sign me up! Said no Rogue ever
farm single mfkr there,still felt miserable to swap in and out the shadow realm to do achievements
frozen iris
if u say korthia ill block u
I cant think of a single thing in shadowlands that i liked
steel ridge
i remember cev stonking big on sin
the CT mfd tech
vagrant brook
legion yand bfa
Zul entered the chat
bring all the rogues you can with shuriken tornado
winged quail
1st raid SL was great, only good thing about that expansion
rotund oak
I cant think of a single thing in shadowlands that i liked
kinda liked kyrian outlaw with shadowdust but im no longer that man,ive grown up to want peace of mind
😅
hallow pelican
I cant think of a single thing in shadowlands that i liked
BfA and Shadowlands were easily the worst WoW has ever been. The systems of borrowed power made them absolutely fucking DOGSHIT
vestal wren
Zul entered the chat
bring all the rogues you can with shuriken tornado
haha, i mentioned zul even
frozen iris
1st raid SL was great, only good thing about that expansion
Okay Castle Nath was fun. Echoing reprimand was alright i guess.
hallow pelican
People like Dragonflight so much because its like sunshine after being trapped in a fucking sewer
frozen iris
BfA and Shadowlands were easily the worst WoW has ever been. The systems of borr...
Would be hard to argue against. True I enjoyed DF mostly. I didnt care for Aberrus but i loved VOTI and Amidrassil
cobalt sphinx
Shadowlands had good transmog
frozen iris
Shadowlands had good transmog
meh i feel it was overly edgey
Too dark.
Outside of the last place cant even remember what it was called
frozen iris
People like Dragonflight so much because its like sunshine after being trapped i...
lol
hallow pelican
its why I hate ER and Bonespike so much now... its like the Dev team is so fucking DESPERATE to make something out of that shitstain of an Xpac fucking relevant
frozen iris
its why I hate ER and Bonespike so much now... its like the Dev team is so fucki...
How do you like the changes in .5?
hallow pelican
stop trying to make ER and Bonespike relevant ... theyre shit talents and no one is gonna convince me otherwise. As a capstone, ER is easily one of the worst of any class tree
hallow pelican
How do you like the changes in .5?
havent really looked into them too much truthfully. My other classes were fucked so badly on WW release, I was kind of stuck with playing my rogue because everything else was so bad
spice surge
but its still staying around
Sure the name remains, but how it functions is completely different
hallow pelican
Sure the name remains, but how it functions is completely different
its like Bonespike ... what does Bonespike account for DPS wise? its around 10k.
spice surge
And 2% more damage from lethal dose, and 2 extra cp (almost) every rupture
bitter monolith
class tuning
dense cloud
assa nerfed ggwp re-roll to frost dk expansion over eta gg
winged basin
Seen the Spatter Nerf coming, but expected a slightly larger ST increase then the tier adjustment
I just want the 11.0.5 changes out
spice surge
Mfs seeing a 10% increase to envenom, kingsbane and all deathstalker effects
And saying it aint big
hallow pelican
november
vocal cypress
im guessing ur currently writing up something about these new changes fuu 😂
coral ibex
this should be a nice ST increase
cobalt sphinx
how did they miss the mark by like 40% on shadow
winged basin
Mfs seeing a 10% increase to envenom, kingsbane and all deathstalker effects
u right, lmaoooooo
runic basin
its a ST "buff" right?
split veldt
someone tell me how to feel about the patch notes
waxen oyster
a buff to poison dam is a spatter buff technically
hallow pelican
its technically a fix not a buff
coral ibex
functionally its a buff
waxen oyster
its technically a fix not a buff
net gain still
coral ibex
because we will do more damage as a result
hallow pelican
net gain still
ill take it however they wan to label it
waxen oyster
because we will do more damage as a result
it might offset the spatter nerf
in all but super high target counts
ashen rover
time to get set!!!! ( i cant loot anything for the life of me 2 out of my 3 set pieces are from catalyst)
coral ibex
almost definitely
novel parcel
A slight splatter nerf for more single target is so so worth it imo with how mid our St is compared to a lot of other people LOL
waxen oyster
I mean….is it even a net spatter nerf
slim pebble
@balmy condor
coral ibex
envenom/kingsbane/deathstalker poison effects getting buffed by 10% outweighs a 12.5% spatter nerf
waxen oyster
if env and kb are doing 10% more
indigo mulch
I think its perfectly fine that they removed some spatter damage. I couldn't ask for better changes. I wish they would give more damage to rupture but ah well
coral ibex
its more ST dam and "less" splash
hallow pelican
i think it shows that theyre aware that our ST has been shit because of a bug, so maybe we shouldn't be nerfed when its "fixed"
coral ibex
but you splash more off the ST
winged basin
I am already topping the meters in my guild, so excited to do it still, but higher 😂😂
royal lantern
indigo mulch
We needed more ST damage badly.
waxen oyster
Yeah thsts the thing
final star
waxen oyster
you buff st you buff spatter
bright turret
i dislike dust sub as much as the next guy, but it seems a bit odd it didnt get a little nudge too
indigo mulch
coral ibex
spice surge
i dislike dust sub as much as the next guy, but it seems a bit odd it didnt get ...
Surely they fixed the ~8% missing dps from silly bugs in ST and the like ~15% missing dps for aoe for sub
And thats why theres no notes
surely
polar timber
so funny man enhance doing like 1.5 mil on some bosses and they are scared to over buff rogue
indigo mulch
I think the buff is decent though D:
if its like 10% dmg to envenom and kb then its a pretty good change if you ask me.
;o
polar timber
im gonna keep rioting till theres one rogue spec in top 5 dont care tbh
indigo mulch
I'm not sure what hero talents that it should affect though?
royal lantern
it is
plague is nature+shadow
and for rogue you can assume that nature dmg = poison
most of the time
not always
spice surge
If we assume that theyre correct with saying that it should work on plague damage from deathstalker (aka appropriate hero talents) and use the top log of M sikran as an example:
22% envenom
2.6% corrupt the blood
10.4% kingsbane
5.7% hunt them down
3.3% deathstalkers mark
1% clear the witnesses
Thats a total of 45% of the rogues damage that now gets buffed by 10% where it didnt before
coral ibex
thats pretty good
spice surge
Theoretically it should apply to vicious venoms as well, but he didnt have it talented
polar timber
LOL
sterile crest
It’s not going to be a nerf
frosty bridge
s4?
indigo mulch
its going to be a buff even in AoE. :S
sterile crest
The ST buff will mostly offset spatter nerf and just give you more dmg in general
royal lantern
It’s not going to be a nerf
mfs dont realise that you need to reduce spatter dmg if you wanna buff ST dmg lol
like
spice surge
Its probably a small nerf in aoe, but mostly neutral
polar timber
if it actually ends up being under 5% id laugh like what an absolute joke
frosty bridge
ok ignore,. assa was good but aug mage sp existed ig
royal lantern
spatter is such a good tuning knob cus of that lol
polar timber
castle nathria level tuning rn
coral ibex
bro
deep sorrel
did you read what it said?
true rapids
when you have the company name as a spell your class can't be nerfed too hard
coral ibex
did you even read past the first line
rotund oak
Whispyr typing 
past bobcat
I wonder what the actual value will be for ST gain
tacit otter
this is a positive change overall, in all scenarios?? what you tilting about
rotund oak
im guessing big pin
woeful meteor
slowmode 
cobalt sphinx
spatter was nerfed
deep sorrel
Developer’s note: We expect these changes to result in a net increase in overall damage, weighted heavily towards single target.
jagged slate
lol
vale whale
these dudes are hilarious kekW
simple ore
ST buff is an AoE buff because of spatter...
true rapids
simple ore
it cancels out
deft vault
nerfs to spatter is offset by the ST buffs
polar timber
shadow priest got a bigger buff than us btw
coral ibex
me when spatter causes ST damage to splash and ST damage got increased by more than splatter got nerfed
polar timber
lol
coral ibex
jagged niche
if you read it wrong its a nerf 
jagged slate
0.45% to 0.4% caustic with a 10% buff to envenom and kingsbane + others
rotund oak
Its almost all just buffs
cant see sub aoe buffs anywhere 
winged quail
If caustic damage is based on singletarget damage, and singletarget goes up, then caustic damage goes up. This offsets the nerf. If you need this explained please sever your fingers.
cobalt sphinx
are you guys jsut really fucking bad at math
true rapids
cant see sub aoe buffs anywhere <:Sadge:819146164288356352>
subs getting changed in like 2 weeks no need for bandaids rn
past panther
fickle lotus
are you guys jsut really fucking bad at math
we're rogues we can't even read
cobalt sphinx
0.45% to 0.4% caustic with a 10% buff to envenom and kingsbane + others
0.4 x 1.05 = 0.42
rotund oak
subs getting changed in like 2 weeks no need for bandaids rn
yo,we take what we can man,ild take any sub love there is
spice surge
cant see sub aoe buffs anywhere <:Sadge:819146164288356352>
Surely they fix some of the bugs
And thats why theres no notes
coral ibex
something like 40% of your damage is getting buffed by the change
rotund oak
<:clueless:1099922541923024997>
coral ibex
but spatter 45->40 means nerf to you
tardy terrace
rogue bros
winged quail
I understand the principle of the changes which is enough to know why they made them
tardy terrace
we are so back
gritty laurel
fury warrior reading comprehension from some folks smh
rotund oak
we are so back
fallow marsh
Does it only affect damage done from abilities. Will it also impact the ring proc from queen?
echo heath
Yes, I love coming here after patch notes, very regarded
jagged slate
0.4 x 1.05 = 0.42
u right except it's 10%
alpine pagoda
jagged slate
0.45 to 0.4 is 12.5
maiden gust
WHISPYR IS TYPING SHUSH ALL
jagged slate
so you're right. didn't think it through
solar oasis
Math is hard
gritty laurel
Does it only affect damage done from abilities. Will it also impact the ring pro...
should only be abilities, items are almost always excluded from class ability buffs/debuffs
vital dragon
what is math
atomic creek
Has anyone done quick math to know what the actual damage increase is that we're getting on ST with this bug fix?
vital dragon
its like 3 bouton in key
bronze pike
whispyr
vital dragon
kinda boring imo xD
bronze pike
are we even mroe meta now
cobalt sphinx
kush did 1.74m overall in mists 11 and topped, the secret is to just be 629 ilvl
storm hedge
Quick math was about 4.5% but that was napkin math, let's see if whispyr confirms it
rotund oak
Bro whispyr typing like he's about to drop a new LOTR trilogy
vagrant wagon
lets go !
spice surge
Has anyone done quick math to know what the actual damage increase is that we're...
#assassination message Napkin math, whispyr probably cooking up something more substantial and proper in a bit
indigo mulch
Nice, i always wanted a new LOTR triology
ashen rover
whispyr post whispyr post
hallow pelican
Has anyone done quick math to know what the actual damage increase is that we're...
spice surge
So just wait for that
lament stump
whispyr drafting a new pinned
atomic creek
That looks solid
harsh anchor
Maybe we all just type numbers and whoever is right wins a prize
lament stump
lapis lantern
how does bubbling wax perform compared to other stuff? 🙂
lament laurel
slim pebble
waxen oyster
ngl
balmy condor
Tier Set/Caustic Tuning
THIS IS A BUFF BY ALL METRICS
Be aware that we don't have sims for this yet and we don't have hard numbers for what "proc chance increase" means, so I'm going to speculate a bit with some napkin math. Don't shoot me
-
The tier changes are actually quite large here cause our 4 piece was like 50% uptime, and the 2 piece working on envenom/kingsbane is large in single target as well. I estimate that the total tier fix is probably looking like easily a 4% increase in single target, and close to 3% in aoe with the impact of the 4pc factored. There is a lot of math with it scaling/ramping faster/better/worse depending on pull and stuff so the 4pc here is a bit all over the place to estimate. Like the dev note said, the changed are weighted towards single target mainly, and that remains true
-
The caustic nerf is entirely expected given how strong it is, and this is very variable based on your key but will end up being around a 1.5% loss
-
Follow the blood change does nothing
echo heath
Remember when this discord ran off the Rogue dev? Good times
woven torrent
storm hedge
Literally waiting for the dinner so I can go to bed Whispyr
storm hedge
Let's go
solar oasis
WAKE UP BABE NEW WHISPYR POST DROPPED
lament stump
# [Tier Set/Caustic Tuning](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/10191994754...
LETS GOOOO
BUFF OVERALL
waxen oyster
How do people unironically think spatter didnt deserve a nerf?
coral ibex
lmfao
hardy prairie
is it normal for envenom to be higher than CT for a +10? (mists)
safe rover
he cooked
waxen oyster
Ok
waxen oyster
no one cares about your minigame
mystic osprey
Goat
polar timber
thats sick we go from bottom 2 specs to bottom 6 wooo
indigo mulch
But i mean, all other specs is more or less getting buffed as well. So our standing prob wont change much no?
lament stump
But i mean, all other specs is more or less getting buffed as well. So our stand...
believe
cobalt sphinx
woven torrent
i havent seen the post , is frost dk at least getting smoked?
round harbor
kush did 1.74m overall in mists 11 and topped, the secret is to just be 629 ilvl
wow i didnt think about doing that. good shout
lament stump
balmy condor
that's the 2 piece
dapper cradle
insane leeching poison uptime
reef ravine
i havent seen the post , is frost dk at least getting smoked?
nah
dapper cradle
any tips?
balmy condor
your 4 piece is at 64%
safe rover
only 99.7% uptime on sign of the explorer tho
desert vault
I see they trying to give some st love with the upcoming changes
round harbor
noob my sign of explorer 99.9%
storm hedge
They buffed 4p uptime twice, with the proc chance and it being applied from 5 stacks
balmy condor
correct
waxen oyster
How are people seriously saying this is a nerf
mfs act like they’re regularly pulling 15 mobs
storm hedge
Nobody is saying that tho
silk bane
deft vault
a lot of people were lol
indigo mulch
m+ people seeing caustic changes and they riot.
lament stump
they def were saying that before the whispyr pin
earnest timber
I'll take 1.5% off the top for those buffs.
agile gull
I demand caustic to be 200% !
balmy condor
I have a 10 mists with 55% uptime on 4pc, if that goes to like 85-90% uptime, the 4 piece alone offsets the caustic nerf, without even considering the envenom buff, or the kingsbane buff, or the rest of it
deep sorrel
bro or maybe wait like til november patch?
waxen oyster
how does anyone think melee is meta at the top end of keys
deep sorrel
because at this rate ur gonna be crafting 16 pieces of gear
reef ravine
mfs act like they’re regularly pulling 15 mobs
i am ninjapulling in every key buddy
indigo mulch
I'm just happy they are buffing kingsbane, i'm acutally kind of sad that KB does as "little" damage as it does currently.
reef ravine
talk for urself
hallow pelican
I have a 10 mists with 55% uptime on 4pc, if that goes to like 85-90% uptime, th...
theoretically this wont affect our crafted items correct?
lament stump
so uhh is there any reason to play sub guys 
earnest timber
Good, fuck Sub
waxen oyster
so L
fickle lotus
won't this increase the value of mastery?
spiral gale
Wonder if I'll sniff a 10 key one day 🐽
tropic yarrow
then is the buff or nerf?
fallow marsh
I mean if we were getting 45% splash damage for every 100 poison damage and we are now getting 40% on 110 poison damage it’s virtually even aoe with a significant ST buff what’s the problem?
indigo mulch
I wonder if they change mark with the change as well, so we can use mark + a stack in a single envenom.
deep sorrel
no its not
fdk has more presence in top 20 runs than mage :x
lament stump
resto tho
balmy condor
theoretically this wont affect our crafted items correct?
I don't see how it would
waxen oyster
thats alot of mages
final star
10 mists
waxen oyster
class is also immortal
balmy condor
I mean if we were getting 45% splash damage for every 100 poison damage and we a...
problem is people being unable to do simple math
waxen oyster
if you die as mage
sudden torrent
so, im slow today if given the option of amplifying poison or deadly which should i be going with
slim pebble
I mean if we were getting 45% splash damage for every 100 poison damage and we a...
First day in here? Lol
earnest timber
problem is people being unable to do simple math
am bad at math pls do math for me
slim pebble
problem is people being unable to do simple math
This is why I have robots do math for me
earnest timber
i can barely count my fingers
lament stump
if anything gets changed half this discord will swear its nerfs and immediately be like wtf blizz thats just how it goes they saw 1 nerf out of like 4 buffs and lost it
feral mason
Was there already a list somewhere of things not being affected by the 2p?
balmy condor
really depends what "increased proc chance means" but given that the tier combines to basically "+10% mastery" I would assume it's quite high
balmy condor
Was there already a list somewhere of things not being affected by the 2p?
it only affected fatebound coin + poisons
rotund oak
stream works too
undone flame
I woder how big of an dps gain the changes are
feral mason
it only affected fatebound coin + poisons
so if I wanted to napkin math it now I could just add envenom + all the plague damage stuff?
and kb
balmy condor
dunno
tepid lichen
buffed?
dull pulsar
fickle lotus
so if I wanted to napkin math it now I could just add envenom + all the plague d...
take the total % of those abilities then increase by 10%
civic tide
is it normal that evokers do no dmg in m+?
spice surge
so if I wanted to napkin math it now I could just add envenom + all the plague d...
If you 100% belive they added exactly the things they said they added ye
slim pebble
Wish I could change my server profile picture without paying for it
undone flame
Kinda odd to me envomen dmg were not getting higher by på allready
fallow marsh
I’d imagine it’s impossible to update the sim without knowing what the actual increased chance is
slim pebble
Cause this would hit this week 😂
spiral gale
pins mfer do you guys read them
What's that
tepid lichen
wait so the 2pc wasnt buffing env/bane at all?
balmy condor
correct
lament stump
small indie company
balmy condor
I mean did you notice though
nova aspen
multi dollar company
balmy condor
without me shoving that info down your throat?
nova aspen
indigo mulch
without me shoving that info down your throat?
balmy condor
you as a player had no clue
spice surge
I mean did you notice though
I did 
tepid lichen
it matters because this xpac is half baked and half the content doesn't work
storm hedge
You tell them
tepid lichen
not because of dps
trim dirge
tier was kinda noticeably ass of an upgrade tho
winged widget
I mean did you notice though
I don't even show combat numbers anymore.
Annoying ass meele clusterfuck demanded it 😦
tepid lichen
having so many bugs is fucking nuts
spiral gale
undone flame
wait so the 2pc wasnt buffing env/bane at all?
Wait so it was inly weapon posions? Xd
lament stump
idk man