assassination

[indigo meadow]

just saying 150k cause i did some sims with my own char crafted perfect 590 gear both ways and its 150k for me. Could be more for others.

[dark token]

I would actually love that tbh

It's super fun in keys

[limber lion]

Yeah, next step is replacing TMW with Weakauras

[dark token]

Actually semi boring in raids

[limber lion]

But yeah, looks good

Big chilling

[runic hinge]

same, actually most fun spec in keys

[dark token]

They should make assa keys spec for sure

[limber lion]

nty

[whole sand]

i don't think the sims translate great either, we are relatively fine in downtime where it directly cuts into outlaw

[indigo meadow]

the sims dont have outlaw at 100% uptime on adrenaline rush either.

[whole sand]

i mean i don't know what you're looking for, but its not 1 for 1

sin is not the giga spec, you've been fooled by the internet

but we're also fine so

i mean you could be a boomkin or something

[indigo meadow]

lol wut im just making general conversation xD

[whole sand]

just referring to this, im being silly i wasn't meaning anything by it

but yeah we'll live, and we'll all be playing sub in 2 weeks

thats the way of things

[deep sorrel]

whyspir, you think improved garrote or improved poison ST?

[indigo meadow]

xD right i did some dummy pulls on sub and i was hitting 1 mil dps on opener nuts class for burst

[limber lion]

You always take Improved Garrote everywhere

You mean Shrouded Suffocation?

[deep sorrel]

no, i mean improved poison

sim sais its better

[limber lion]

Read your sentence again then

Improved Poison vs improved poison?

lol

[pliant terrace]

Does improved garrote snapshot?

[deep sorrel]

huh?

[limber lion]

No

[deep sorrel]

i wrote, improved poison vs improved garrote

improved poison sims better

[limber lion]

Yes

Wtf

Link sim

[deep sorrel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eonGqWWQ8Q93Eev8j3nGAb

[balmy condor]

Probably improved poison

[limber lion]

Ugh

I hate Deathstalker

I will spec into Fatebound and never look back

[crisp stream]

authority of depth is bis weapon enchant?

[deep sorrel]

think it does more sustained, less burst on open

[pliant terrace]

improved garrote snapshots right? that's why the LE weakaura glows differently for the full duration?

[limber lion]

What do you mean snapshots?

[balmy condor]

Probably yeah

[oblique garnet]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[limber lion]

You apply it and it's there for the entire duration

But stuff like haste and mastery changes will still affect the damage

[pliant terrace]

like its better than a non-stealthed garrote so you wouldn't reapply another garrote for the full duration

[limber lion]

Yes

[pliant terrace]

ok cool

[limber lion]

That's the point of the talent yeah

[pliant terrace]

I just thought it was for the 6 seconds it did more damage and then it downgrades dynamically after the buff fell off

[limber lion]

Ah yeah no

It's just for the no cooldown portion

[pliant terrace]

gotcha thank you

[slate crown]

https://tenor.com/view/soon-cat-peeking-gif-8420673

[whole sand]

i mean at least if we're running improved posion we can sit on vanish now

[little tulip]

i hear they got some next tuesday next tuesday

[slate crown]

Yes that's the glow

[whole sand]

and just use it for any bs that may happen during the fight

[limber lion]

Yeah, the build came around with the big Deathstalker buff in the past

But I hate it

[deep sorrel]

you lose 100k in burst for 9k dps, worth?

[limber lion]

Vanish has no use whatsoever, just do whatever you want with it

[limber lion]

What good is the burst for

[deep sorrel]

i mean like everything, burst is always good

[limber lion]

But like what profile are you simming

AoE or ST

[deep sorrel]

st ofc

[limber lion]

Yeah then it doesn't really apply right

It's a super niche full st build

[deep sorrel]

ofc it does, if boss poofs and goes away u want dmg as fast as possible

[limber lion]

But if a boss fight lasts for 8 minutes

the burst in the beginning is useless

[deep sorrel]

yes,

the burstier build is improved garrote btw

[limber lion]

Yeah

[deep sorrel]

but biggest difference maker is arterial precision

[limber lion]

btw btw

[deep sorrel]

ye mb XD

[whole sand]

i feel like that's not really how improved garrote is thought about tho, like we use it on cd with DS, if the boss 'vanishes' and comes back, and we don't have cds, you're in the exact same situation

[subtle tundra]

I have not once ever specced lower dps overall for burst

[limber lion]

Like if you're thinking about burst for something like idk mythic+

Then sure go for it

But in the raid where every encounter is multiple minutes long, it's kinda useless

[subtle tundra]

Things you need burst for are binary, you either have enough and pass or you wipe. And you always assign enough dps to make sure you get it done

[wind comet]

Is deathstalker or fatebound better for aoe/m+ ?

[limber lion]

Deathstalker for everything if played perfectly

Fatebound more consistent and cozy

[royal lantern]

fatebound is more burst aswell tbh

[deep sorrel]

tell me this yeah, if you are fighting a boss for 30s, and u need to go do a mechanic after

[wind comet]

Gotcha

Would you recommend fatebound then? Fairly new to assassination

[deep sorrel]

u think u want more burst or marginally higher dps

[limber lion]

Absolutely

[whole sand]

what about the other 7 minutes 30 seconds

[late surge]

can I craft 2 rings?

[deep sorrel]

u get 1 mechanic per boss fight this expac?

[royal lantern]

both are not really high impact on your gameplay

fatebound is 100% passive, deathstalker has some minor gameplay changes, but nothing major on both

[little tulip]

i kinda wanna do the 590 crafted cloak and belt

[subtle tundra]

Whatever you want to do I guess

[whole sand]

so you get 4 vanishes over the course of a fight

[subtle tundra]

Never cared

[deep sorrel]

yea valid

[hasty sand]

Is there a general consensus on hero tree for M+ yet?

[abstract needle]

Damn assa in retail is si different from classic lol

[limber lion]

Either

!hero

[prisma monolith]

Both Hero Talents are viable in all content, and are within 2-5% of each other.
Fatebound: Instant damage, is easy to play, can remove some buttons from the rotation, little to no added gameplay
Deathstalker: Introduces gameplay, Singular focus adds big priority damage, suffers from bugs and marks being hard to juggle in easy content like heroic/m0 dungeons

[abstract needle]

Its like i dont know my class any more

[limber lion]

Sure is

[deep sorrel]

cata was a while back lol

[abstract needle]

Yea is was lol

[little tulip]

in wrath we used to be single target with deadly venom stacks doing damage thru envenom at least for scrub raiders is naxx gear

[abstract needle]

Played classic too much need to learn rogue all over again

[little tulip]

i don't even remember playing combat in cata

[abstract needle]

Wonder hows the st with rogue in retail these days

[limber lion]

Not great

[limber lion]

The most boring spec in the entire game quite possibly

[quartz halo]

is fatebound as good as deathstalker now or we should prog in deathstalker?

[limber lion]

Just slice and dice into melee

and melee your way to victory

with the weapon poisons

[abstract needle]

Yep

[limber lion]

Both are decent

!hero

[prisma monolith]

Both Hero Talents are viable in all content, and are within 2-5% of each other.
Fatebound: Instant damage, is easy to play, can remove some buttons from the rotation, little to no added gameplay
Deathstalker: Introduces gameplay, Singular focus adds big priority damage, suffers from bugs and marks being hard to juggle in easy content like heroic/m0 dungeons

[little tulip]

yeah, vanish was just an extra bleed

[abstract needle]

I wonder if outlaw will be good in raids

[limber lion]

Probably

[deep sorrel]

i think another thing with this is, if you go sustained improved poison u can basically hold vanish, makes indiscriminate better bcs it doesn't hurt you whatsoever when opening (that's if you need it)

[limber lion]

But tuning will happen soon-ish

[abstract needle]

Or we still assa all the way

[limber lion]

No

Assa bad

Atm

For now

[abstract needle]

Did rogue got something in the tunning patch?

[limber lion]

Fix bugs, make tier set better

then we pump

[limber lion]

Nothing crazy

Nothing really numbers wise

Kinda QoL stuff

[raven panther]

!ER

[limber lion]

Outlaw got some buffs

!dn

[prisma monolith]

Do I need to always be in stealth to apply a Deathstalker Mark?

• Only the initial application. Darkest Night reapplies and will be the majority of your applications
  Echoing Reprimand....
• Yes, Echoing Reprimand doesn't interact with the Mark / Darkest Night, this is one of the biggest bugs still plaguing Deathstalker as a whole
• Until it is fixed, you would want to run 2/2 Lethality and still put 1 point into Echoing Reprimand
  But the 3rd cp or something?
• Correct, there has been a newly found... bug? interaction? With the Mark and Echoing Reprimand. It requires you to have your 3rd combo point be animacharged, the Mark be applied from Darkest Night, and then consuming the animacharge with Envenom. Should all those conditions be met, it will consume a stack of the Mark as intended.
  Does Blizzard know?
• There is no way they don't know. This has been mass reported, screamed from the rooftops, highlighted in every wowhead article, youtube video, forum post and stream since Deathstalker was revealed in alpha. The only thing we can do is keep reporting the bug through the in-game report, making noise on forums, and waiting.

[abstract needle]

Never tried outlaw tbh

Is it harder that assa?

Than*

[limber lion]

It's a completely different playstyle

Can't say if it's harder or easier

[lusty belfry]

its kinda tough

[limber lion]

It's a lot faster and spammier for sure

[abstract needle]

Intresting

[royal lantern]

outlaw is reactive gameplay

assa/sub are more preperation and execution gameplay

[raven panther]

I beg you blizzard repair ER before the raid

[limber lion]

:)

[little tulip]

try it

it's really fun but you're gonna hit some question mark moments

[sick bridge]

Outlaw needing different weapons + stats makes it kind of awkward

[hushed summit]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/232915274670669826/1280651980787941406/war-within-season-1-loot-upgrade-tracks-v0-m6mnyq8xbxjd1.png?ex=66d8db99&is=66d78a19&hm=2ef56357734df11448f039620fa18af4bb47073bbbd038abbca64a0d35b1554f

[abstract needle]

Yea ill try it when i master assa, im still learning all the new things about it from classic

[craggy monolith]

anyone here that uses hekili?

[limber lion]

Hopefully not

[abstract needle]

Lol

[runic terrace]

Is Assa really that bad?! I though we are quite strong
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exJeu5eVe4bTmyg3WFx5PTxIWvDLi0j-WW-XWpGoG88/htmlview

[limber lion]

In single target yes

But sim numbers are kinda whatever atm

It might do a 180 after heroic tuning

And bug fixes

If those happen

[sour blaze]

im frost main but finally got my ass rogue to 580. im assuming crafting hold till raid as it is for many people but what weapons are you guys rocking?

[indigo mulch]

Its either after or during HC week where blizzard tends to balance out classes.

Not sure about this time around, maybe it happens during mythic week D;

[runic terrace]

I'm not that excited tbh

Time to learn and prepare Outlaw I guess. Hate it though

[limber lion]

Then don't play it...

[royal lantern]

but why

if you dont like it

[limber lion]

A shitty Outlaw does MUCH less than an average Assa rogue

[indigo mulch]

But even if sims say your at the bottom, it dosen't mean that you wont do decent in raids. Damage profiles, kill timers and strats matters way more than what sims say.

[limber lion]

There's literally no point

especially if you hate it

[royal lantern]

and outlaw will probs not even be that great anyway lol

[indigo mulch]

Outlaw damage profile is extremly flat.. Not even sure if it will be half decent in raid.

[unborn barn]

it's just the weak sheep fotm mentality many people now have, it's sad

[indigo mulch]

I mean it makes sense that people FoTM.

You never want to play something that is absolutly trash. Even if your doing more than the avarage arcane mage. The community perspective matters quite a lot ;s

[limber lion]

I will play Assa regardless if it's good or bad

[unborn barn]

Often it doesn't. "Oh, they nerfed something by 0,001%, something else must be better now , I must play it"

[runic terrace]

Better safe than sorry. And I need to be prepared to guarantee my spot

[limber lion]

Then you're better off playing any other class in the game

[indigo mulch]

Yeah but your also very good at playing assassination.

[limber lion]

Lolllll

[royal lantern]

how many rogues are you

[limber lion]

True, but it only takes you so far

[indigo mulch]

I mean its like i said, community perspective matters quite a lot.

[runic terrace]

Unfortunately 3

[limber lion]

Time to jump classes

Got plenty of time to level up an Arcane Mage

[indigo mulch]

I joined a guild with 3 rogues. I know i'm better than all of them so i don't really mind.

[little tulip]

i like that rogue can't get stunned by the green wave on dawnbreaker last boss

[sour blaze]

as someone who mained rogue up until dragonflight since end of vanilla, modern outlaw is trickier to play than any of the other rogue specs. its not just me saying that, ive heard casualaddict, one of the highest rated pve rogues say the same thing. youre going to really have to invest into outlaw if you want to maximize your dps. assasination and sub are boring as fuck to me, outlaw is the only rogue spec that makes me feel like im not going to fall asleep, but id rather try less and do more. so im playing assasination

[little tulip]

as long as they cloak it and you know

[indigo mulch]

But there are so much more than just doing numbers when it comes to raiding.

[little tulip]

blink

[royal lantern]

then your raidcomp is allready kinda weird lol

[whole sand]

besides you don't need to compete with sims, you just need to compete with the other 2 rogues

and i'm sure you're not the shit one of the three, you're in the discord, and everyone in here is great

so its just 1 guy you gotta beat

[royal lantern]

bro, if you are in a raidteam that stacks the same MELEE DPS CLASS 3x

its not a guild where shit matters

lol

[little tulip]

wish i rolled a warrior in mop remix i might have learned some more informatishun lol

[runic terrace]

We start with a huge roster, yes...

[limber lion]

Very true

Tryan been pretty based lately

[whole sand]

i mean they could just be filtering out people in hc and shit

[shy pecan]

[robust river]

Do you guys have the damage number pop up on? the yellow numbers?

[limber lion]

No

[whole sand]

only if they remind me of 2010

[robust river]

I have them on, they just clutter teh screen right? Don't really need them for anything

[limber lion]

Yes they are not needed

You use Details to track damage

[static glacier]

I do 4fun, so i have something to stare at, pure performance minded people hide them

[robust river]

Any idea what setting to turn them off is called?

[limber lion]

I have an addon for it

[robust river]

I do like big numbers

[limber lion]

MSBT

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/mik-scrolling-battle-text

[whole sand]

big numbers are fine, everyones too much of a nerd these days (me included)

do what you want - sponsored by hekili

[robust river]

I can't find the option to turn numbers off 😄

I thought it was "scrolling combat text" but that is already off

[little tulip]

it's probably some text alpha setting

if you're talking about plater

[robust river]

Ah I wonder if Cev's addon is how he disables it

[limber lion]

I literally said that...

What

[whole sand]

relax, they're getting there

[static glacier]

for me I like to know how much each hit of a specific spell does, my env crits are a silly measure of how strong I feel

[robust river]

I misunderstood 🤣

[static glacier]

or the last kingsbane crit

[shy pecan]

Floating combat text in options should stop it as well

[deep sorrel]

what u guys think for this, for single target with mixes of aoe?

[robust river]

I thought that but it doesn't come up in search anymore

[little tulip]

they stopped making baldur's gates and stuff lol

when was the last time a dragon age came out that wasn't um inquisition XD

[static glacier]

missing scent of blood which is very very good

also doomblade is pretty meh

[limber lion]

Doomblade is a useless talent

It's a travel node to get to SBS

If you don't get SBS, you don't spec Doomblade either

Dashing is also not great

Better off taking Sang or AP

Taking Tiny Toxic Blade AND Blindside AND Dashing

Is not great

You just use them to travel to the other nodes

[robust river]

In summary - use a build from the pins/guides 😄

[limber lion]

Pretty much yeah

[deep sorrel]

well no, because it doesn't work whatsoever in boss fights with indiscriminate

lol

[limber lion]

You just play the build that doesn't take VV

And take IC with it

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[royal lantern]

you know you are in leveling dungeons

when the druid tank shapeshifts out of bear form MID COMBAT to start skinning enemys

and then writes "wtf" in chat

[deep sorrel]

i can read bro, dw, it just makes no sense what the guide has written for raid aoe after u wanna expand past caustic

it makes more sense with the build the guide has written to skip IC and go straight for CT

[bitter shuttle]

hopefully good for this season

[limber lion]

Something like this instead

Or drop SBS and Doomblade and take Shrouded + MA

But probs would just play this personally

If you really need IC

[deep sorrel]

ye ur killing ST with this though

[limber lion]

How so?

It literally takes all ST nodes

Except VV

[deep sorrel]

dropping viscious venoms, no dashing scoundrel

[limber lion]

Dashing Scoundrel is dogshit my guy

VV is for PURE single target only

It's bad everywhere else

[deep sorrel]

except like i posted legit 5minutes ago

[limber lion]

If you play IC, you do NOT take VV

[deep sorrel]

and u replied to it

it sims better

than shrouded suff

[oblique jackal]

arent sims not relevant

[limber lion]

Where do you see Shrouded in the build that I posted

Exactly

[limber lion]

Atm yeah kinda whatever

[deep sorrel]

so send ur single target build

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[limber lion]

You can find it in here

In the guide

[deep sorrel]

the one with shrouded, right

[robust river]

Question. If not running double shiv, do I have to put a mutilate in place of that shiv after DM? I don't seem to have 5 CB for that Envenom unless I'm doing something wrong?

[limber lion]

You play whatever sims the highest for you

If Dashing is better, you play Dashing

If Improved Poisons is better, you play Improved Poisons

It's not that difficult

You look at the sim

[deep sorrel]

bro why r u so defensive

i am having a normal discussion chill

[limber lion]

No, you would just KB immediately after Deathmark and then Mutilate twice

[robust river]

Ah ok, so mut goes after the KB. Thanks!

[deep sorrel]

what if you drop serrated bs and take vv?

[limber lion]

There is no reason to play VV if you're planning on playing IC as well

[deep sorrel]

and last issue i have with this, is that if you have improved garrote you're gonna wanna vanish in opener right

[limber lion]

They're kinda the exact opposite of one another

[deep sorrel]

and if adds release at awkward timing like say 1min

u wont have vanish to use ic anyway

[limber lion]

No

If you have adds spawning, you would hold for the adds

Playing IC without taking any Garrote/Rupture nodes is super not great

Completely pointless at that point

[deep sorrel]

yes this was the issue i had

[limber lion]

And playing VV with IC is pointless as well

IC wants aoe

VV wants full single target

[deep sorrel]

it's like bleeding 3 targets but ur nerfing ur bleeds to do so

which i agree with ur point there for sure

but if ur dropping vicious venoms, why take ip?

do those two scale?

[limber lion]

What else would you take

There's not many options there

You don't want VV

You don't want MA

You don't take Thrown Precision

Options are a bit limited

It's the only node that you can really take

[deep sorrel]

yea fair

[limber lion]

IP is also a pretty good node, even though it sounds sad and small

But more poisons means bigger KB's

And bigger KB's means bigger Spatters

Which means more AoE and ST

[deep sorrel]

its a good talent build and it's not listed in any of the guides written btw

in-fact, guide contradicts what u say

[limber lion]

The guides are meant for people who are starting their journey as Assassination

[deep sorrel]

"to take IC drop serrated bone spike"

[limber lion]

Not for minmaxers

Minmaxers do not look at the guides

[deep sorrel]

ye which is why i didn't like the look at guide answer :P

[limber lion]

Once you're very versed with the spec, you don't look at the guide anymore

Unless something crazy new happens and you're not sure what to do/think about it

[bronze pike]

whpisyr

i need your feet icon

[deep sorrel]

i agree, like i said comes back to this bro

[bronze pike]

its a emergancy

[normal mist]

o.o

He's away Rem

[bronze pike]

all is lost

[little tulip]

🐀👋

funny rat wave even :b

[normal mist]

#assassination message

i got you Rem

[safe shale]

Anyone around 585ish crit mastery bis etc, what kind of dps you getting on single target 2minutes, not sim, but like actual damage

[normal mist]

"crit mastery bis"?

[limber lion]

🤦

[normal mist]

Something's not quite right

[lone parrot]

how do you manage energy when you are doing single target like on a boss, garrote and rupture up and just cant keep energy up

[limber lion]

Put your poisons on

[normal mist]

You chill

[robust river]

Feet up

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
TLDR:Maintain max uptime on envenom

• For Fatebound, sanguine blades is typically much better than Deathstalker. For this reason, if you can't maintain Envenom uptime anymore, you should build combo points, then reset your energy back to around 70% before maintaining again.
• For Deathstalker, try to stay under 50% as much as possible while maxing out Envenom uptime. Single target builds play vicious venoms instead of sanguine blades as well.

The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.

[safe shale]

yes, stats, crit, mastery on all items

[normal mist]

Who lied to you?

[velvet vault]

wait
u dont buy that ironclaw whetstone ?

[robust river]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[bronze pike]

youve saved felhammer

ty royal

[normal mist]

[little tulip]

use improved garrote

smil

[lone parrot]

so you just auto attack refreshing envenom buff lol?

[normal mist]

yeah

[safe shale]

Yeah idk my sims were saying cirt mastery over and over each time

like im 1000% on droptimizer maxed out 587

Theres nothing better i can currently get/make

[lone parrot]

its a weird change of pace to having infinite energy in packs to having none, i dont like it

[whole sand]

raidbots should charge you if you run a droptimizer on heroic dungeons, don't @ me

[normal mist]

#outlaw

[woeful wigeon]

bro its preseasen relax the real deal starts in 2weeks

[lone parrot]

which sucks 😄

[little tulip]

buy thistle tea from the dalaran vendor

[royal lantern]

savage

[safe shale]

About what?

[pliant remnant]

based

[normal mist]

"crit mastery bis"

[little tulip]

stat pots are obsolete

[sinful elk]

Hey guys, im chasing just a simple little debuff tracking WA if anyone has something similar to this. I was being a bit of a boomer trying to disable the packs right down to just this

[safe shale]

No im saying an example of like having crit/mastery on most peices of gear, with no more gear to get, what kinda dps we getting

[lone parrot]

you can make one easy

[normal mist]

Read the following command

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[safe shale]

What relevance is that?

Im asking what kidna dps people are getting xD

[whole sand]

if you want to know your damage, sim yourself on a dummy, then hit a dummy

i dunno what someone elses dps is going to tell you

[normal mist]

If you're "full" mastery crit gear, you're probably simming lower than someone with random gear with the same ilvl

[little tulip]

in heroics if the tank knows how to do chainpulls you'll get 1-1.5 million and clear the dungeon about 20 minutes

[safe shale]

I have xD Im jus seeing what other people arem and no im probably not as, my droptimizer, literally isnt giving me any more options

[limber lion]

Idk I never have "none" energy

[safe shale]

Seemingly nothing is an upgrade for me

[little tulip]

it's just napkin math right now, you'll have to wait til next tuesday

[limber lion]

I feel like stuff like Blindside and tea carries pretty hard

[woeful wigeon]

you said on a 2m boss all bosses are dead in less then 1.5 min and dummy stays a dummy cant tell bro

[limber lion]

I never feel super starved

[sinful elk]

Ive never made a weakaura, Ill give it a youtube 😄

[limber lion]

It's definitely slower than in AoE, but it's not like you can't press buttons for 5s at a time

[lone parrot]

@limber lion im talking about when ur on a boss like the last boss in the candle holder dung

[safe shale]

How so if ive used droptimizer and simmed every new item i have gotten? im not trying to argue btw just dont really understand

[whole sand]

there's premade WA's in the addon you can easily set up, its really not that scary once you get a look at it

[normal mist]

Aight, nevertheless, Stacking 2 stats isnt the way in assassination, it does not work like that.
About your main question, why don't you sim and check yourself how much you doing currently?

[little tulip]

i didn't undestand either back in season 3/4 just use dungeon slice if you want a more accurate picture

[lone parrot]

@sinful elk if you open weakauras then click premade you can select what you want (so icon) and then read through display options and adjust text etc

@sinful elk 30 mins of playing around and u can make decent ones

[little tulip]

patchwerk single target is literally none of the encounters right now

[sinful elk]

Ah sweet, Ill give it a crack

[safe shale]

Well, i have simmed and am curious, based on my current stats etc, what other players with similar ilevel are reaching

[normal mist]

Trust me i'm not trying to argue as well xD

[little tulip]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qM9G8vacTyKUFmoEuTR66W

this isn't true on bosses but yeah

[normal mist]

send a patchwerk sim

i can compare to mine

i'll do one as well

[little tulip]

if a pack happens to get aoe'd with the boss this will happen

and you'll feel ike a lawnmower

[safe shale]

Will do

[warm fractal]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[normal mist]

Use all raidbuffs too btw

[safe shale]

how long? 5min?

[normal mist]

yeah the usual

5mins

[safe shale]

Okay, optimal buffs yeah?

[normal mist]

yep

I'm 587 currently, i did not care about minmaxing stats nor Simmed a single time since TWW started

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cVsDBzzQYCQwcomPe9Duab

[safe shale]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iKP83yFXEXmZ8Z7oJtxfKW

Hmmm

So strange

[little tulip]

yeah my patchwork is about 580k

[normal mist]

swap resounding clarity with lethality 2

[little tulip]

i should just copy your talents lol

[safe shale]

You even have darkmoon, jesus man thats crazy your damage is nice

[safe shale]

Alright ill try that

[slender needle]

ur sim is without PI

[normal mist]

and this is the reason:

!dn

[prisma monolith]

Do I need to always be in stealth to apply a Deathstalker Mark?

• Only the initial application. Darkest Night reapplies and will be the majority of your applications
  Echoing Reprimand....
• Yes, Echoing Reprimand doesn't interact with the Mark / Darkest Night, this is one of the biggest bugs still plaguing Deathstalker as a whole
• Until it is fixed, you would want to run 2/2 Lethality and still put 1 point into Echoing Reprimand
  But the 3rd cp or something?
• Correct, there has been a newly found... bug? interaction? With the Mark and Echoing Reprimand. It requires you to have your 3rd combo point be animacharged, the Mark be applied from Darkest Night, and then consuming the animacharge with Envenom. Should all those conditions be met, it will consume a stack of the Mark as intended.
  Does Blizzard know?
• There is no way they don't know. This has been mass reported, screamed from the rooftops, highlighted in every wowhead article, youtube video, forum post and stream since Deathstalker was revealed in alpha. The only thing we can do is keep reporting the bug through the in-game report, making noise on forums, and waiting.

[normal mist]

I'm using WoWhead talents

[little tulip]

preseason degeneracy is cool but yeah like mining nodes :y

[whole sand]

oh yeah its a PI diff i think

[little tulip]

same but mine are a few weeks old

[slender needle]

ye Royals sim is with 3x PI and his is with 0

[normal mist]

I did say to add all raid buffs

[slender needle]

ye i know he just forgot it

[normal mist]

@safe shale ADD PI

[safe shale]

Yeah idk why it wasnt on, just running sim now

[little tulip]

most people aren't in class discord, and raid week 1 is gonna be no cadence no fun

don't trip too hard

[normal mist]

I raid with my casual guild

its gonna feel fine for me

[little tulip]

raid group 2 tba here, looking forward to it cause of my timezone and stuff

might get the unicorn in lfr and stuff

[noble nymph]

i read the pins about spark crafting. still no updates on whats safe to craft with spark?

[normal mist]

Still no updates

[safe shale]

aaaah here we go

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wa2XtkcJBoNJBqFFqB4GXM

[normal mist]

some boys crafting MH for now

[safe shale]

Niiiiice

[normal mist]

I'm missing enchants and gems and EMB btw

[noble nymph]

ty for the info

[safe shale]

Hmmmm true

So why if im following simc/droptimizer, are we still simming so closely then?

[normal mist]

Still, the main focus is, the difference between "bis stats" and "random bullshitgo" as an assa rogue is REALLY small

[whole sand]

because stats aren't real

[safe shale]

Yeah thats cool tbh

[keen spruce]

Stats are a lie

[normal mist]

They are a lie until you stack only 2 stats and have 0 of the other two

[whole sand]

oww im simming higher with tiny toxic, i love tiny toxic

[green bolt]

is there a way to get caustic spatter to show on whyspers plater profile?

[limber lion]

There sure is

The debuff itself has been blacklisted

But it colors the nameplate green

but with DSM, it turns purple instead

You can remove the blacklist if you want from it

It's under "Debuff Tracking" or whatever

[normal mist]

what i was saying. I am missing every important consumable there xD

[green bolt]

ok, thank you

[normal mist]

I wonder how big weapon enchants are

[whole sand]

screw all you crafting nerds
and you egg nerds

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/56kfjGzbV5gmzCA4ATPc25

[safe shale]

Yeah, interesting tbh, i cant understand how we are that close, but im not against it ahah

[heavy sentinel]

is deathstalker or fatebound better for aoe?

[safe shale]

Yeah i dont even have weapon enchants either tbf yeah

Too exepensive to replace in a week

[normal mist]

All of this just to say: Stats for assassination do not really matter as much as Ilvl, special trinkets and embelishments (if they get buffed please god)
If you get new gear, just SIM it, don't chase a "bis" list

[little tulip]

dual on use trinkets are still bad though right

[normal mist]

Yeah

Because your first trinket covers your burst

[safe shale]

Yeah, i really appreciate that actually, thanks a bunch, seperate issue is a skill issue now, i need to smack a dummy and practice to get close xD

[normal mist]

the second... is there

[orchid cedar]

does assa benif a lot from raid buffs?
I'm simming my 2 chars, Assa and DH with very similar gear and they sim pretty similar with training dummy settings, but with Patchwerk settings the rogue sims way more

[normal mist]

Keep in mind this is mainly an assassination thing. Outlaw per example, if nothing changed wants VERSA + CRIT (and they need 10-15% unbuffed haste aswell now)

[safe shale]

Yeah thats true, ugh god, if outlaw gets a buff and I have to respec, put so much work into this character over last few days xD

[normal mist]

Are you a race to world first raider?

[little tulip]

yeah just play it out

it's kinda fun um building a second gear set honestly

[sick bridge]

Staying under 50% leads to more envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.
Am I missing something or does this not make any sense?

[little tulip]

just you know if you're on call for a raid you know what to do

[safe shale]

Nooooo, but joined my friends cutting edge this tier

So trying my best at least

[normal mist]

Respectable and fair then

[sick bridge]

What talent gives you more envenoms for being low energy?

[normal mist]

None

[sick bridge]

Isn't that statement completely wrong? Whether you dump all your energy at once or over time, you get the same # of envenom casts

[iron valve]

when you're above 50%, sanguine uses extra energy for bleed damage. aiming to spend energy to stay under 50% means more energy is going towards builder spender

[sick bridge]

This is about not having Sanguine

[iron valve]

oh then idk, no difference

[orchid cedar]

irrc without sanguine you can dip until 25%

[normal mist]

DS ST has no sanguine

[orchid cedar]

you still want to pool to chain envenom buffs

[normal mist]

I believe that Whispyr meant that, if we always below 50% energy, we're effectively using all our resources into spending as much as possible

If we are above 50% means we're pooling

And we just want to BRRR

[sick bridge]

The logic isn't logicing

[normal mist]

You can ask Whispyr himself when he gets online

In my head it makes sense

but i'm not really able to put it to words

[little tulip]

did you play assassin in other seasons royal?

just curious

[normal mist]

I've ONLY played assassination

Some outlaw here and there in m+

[noble nymph]

how well do we think assa performs in upcoming raid? not a fan of having to gear another spec

[little tulip]

some games are better on the replay

imo :y

[orchid cedar]

Rogue isn't looking particularly strong in raid

at least sims aren't

no more info until the raid actually opens

[normal mist]

!best

[prisma monolith]

All Specs are good and have niches and strengths that they play to. All three specs are looking viable with Assassination/Subtlety being preferred in raids. Mythic+ meta has not solidified yet but Assassination looked promising during beta.

Be aware that Simulations are a tool to be used to compare things like talents/gear/rotations, they are not the definite answer to what is meta or not meta. While outlaw is ahead in sims right now, especially dungeonslice, you have to take a step back and realize these are synthetic/generic situations that we use as a baseline. Dungeonslice has always been a great showing for outlaw simply due to the fight style matching well with the spec. This is not unusual or unheard of.

You can view logs of the raid when it comes out Here, or view the mythic+ run leaderboard Here.

[little tulip]

too many plate wearers and no one gets gear lol

[normal mist]

At the moment we're all close

And we aren't really shinning in ST

[little tulip]

big picture your loot funnel is gonna be casters and and plate wearers we're just existing haha

[noble nymph]

hm ok at least i dont have to worry about gearing outlaw :D

ty guys

[normal mist]

np

[orchid cedar]

maybe you do

sim might not be overperforming and it's the best by far

[normal mist]

"While outlaw is ahead in sims right now, especially dungeonslice, you have to take a step back and realize these are synthetic/generic situations that we use as a baseline"

[whole sand]

i just wanna beat my sim once today

[orchid cedar]

maybe it actually lives up to the expectations in raid

[safe rover]

prayin for an assa m+ meta

[normal mist]

The Sims assume no downtime

You can't live up to that

[nocturne crater]

If I'm going into a pack with full combo pts and darkest night do I just want to envenom first? Or rupture? Or still garrote? What about if I have like 3 to 5 pts?

[grave blade]

why are youtubers saying assass has the best mythic + damage profile yet it's not simming that way lol

[glass hemlock]

Same opener probably, you want bleeds

[normal mist]

I don't listen to YouTubers

[glass hemlock]

Out always

[spice surge]

Profile is not the numbers

[normal mist]

In theory you can envenom into double garr double rupt

[spice surge]

Profile means what you do damage too when youre doing damage

Aka assa does way more to the big target in a pack than the other specs while still doing its aoe

But also

!best

[prisma monolith]

All Specs are good and have niches and strengths that they play to. All three specs are looking viable with Assassination/Subtlety being preferred in raids. Mythic+ meta has not solidified yet but Assassination looked promising during beta.

Be aware that Simulations are a tool to be used to compare things like talents/gear/rotations, they are not the definite answer to what is meta or not meta. While outlaw is ahead in sims right now, especially dungeonslice, you have to take a step back and realize these are synthetic/generic situations that we use as a baseline. Dungeonslice has always been a great showing for outlaw simply due to the fight style matching well with the spec. This is not unusual or unheard of.

You can view logs of the raid when it comes out Here, or view the mythic+ run leaderboard Here.

[cobalt sphinx]

Yeah the reverse funnel damage profile or whatever, it would have been so so so good in azure vaults

Av had so many pulls with perfect spatter hp bars

[nocturne crater]

Ok ty

[spice surge]

What do you mean reverse funnel

Its literally funnel

More small targets make you do more damage to the big target

[cobalt sphinx]

Is assassin funnel even good

[spice surge]

???

Its insane

[cobalt sphinx]

You mean just fan cp and the rupture agi?

[spice surge]

20% agility is big, infinite energy is big, more CP per builder through fok is big

[cobalt sphinx]

Yeah i figured cp gen was already solid and sub was the god of funnel but it’s definitely good for sin too

[orchid cedar]

the extra energy let's you spam like crazy

that and the agi from ruptures is the best thing

[spice surge]

Assa sims with pure st build on St is like 1350, priority damage on like a 8 targets sim is around 1850-1900

[indigo mulch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spice surge]

Obv 8 target constant cleave isnt realistic

But just to get an idea of how the numbers are looking

[cobalt sphinx]

Are there gonna be keys with good funnel though? Maybe a couple wake pulls. It’s hard to gauge in heroics

Yeah that’s like 50% more damage, that is good

[balmy condor]

Every key has good funnel

[magic dust]

Are we going DS in raid or FB? Feel like DS is such a sweat to make it worth the little percentage

[crisp stream]

HEYA!
Alternative for authority of depth?

[deep sorrel]

how so?

[cobalt sphinx]

ds is fun

[dark token]

Sim enchants brother

[magic dust]

In ST for me yeah. With adds and swapping marks nah

[dark token]

(it's prob radiant power enjoy 25k/enchant)

[hardy wind]

are there any trinkets worth farming now or do i just rock spider trinket and something random until tuesday? need something to do this weekend

[proven belfry]

how’s assa looking for raid content?

[cobalt sphinx]

honey buzzer is bugged to do insane aoe, it'll be the best available if it's not fixed

[normal mist]

raid isnt out

[haughty sand]

fatebound vs deathstalker for m+?

[normal mist]

!best

[prisma monolith]

All Specs are good and have niches and strengths that they play to. All three specs are looking viable with Assassination/Subtlety being preferred in raids. Mythic+ meta has not solidified yet but Assassination looked promising during beta.

Be aware that Simulations are a tool to be used to compare things like talents/gear/rotations, they are not the definite answer to what is meta or not meta. While outlaw is ahead in sims right now, especially dungeonslice, you have to take a step back and realize these are synthetic/generic situations that we use as a baseline. Dungeonslice has always been a great showing for outlaw simply due to the fight style matching well with the spec. This is not unusual or unheard of.

You can view logs of the raid when it comes out Here, or view the mythic+ run leaderboard Here.

[deep wave]

is the extra dmg done from mastery using dots changing dynamically based on how much mastery you got at any second or snapshots?

[normal mist]

dynamically

[severe sparrow]

i have a wa that tells me when i'll be able to put a new mark out (in theory when no mobs have one cuz the one with it died/i ate the stacks), it's just whenever i have the dn buff, but it's going off a lot when i still have a marked target. am i missing something or is buggy?

it works like i want it to on dummies fwiw

[haughty sand]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[proper tapir]

Deathstalker with cold blood sims highest

[errant mauve]

sin or sub higher ST right now?

[grave blade]

link to sims

[proper tapir]

Take my word on it for now and give me like an hour to get the kids in bed

[indigo mulch]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
TLDR:Maintain max uptime on envenom

• For Fatebound, sanguine blades is typically much better than Deathstalker. For this reason, if you can't maintain Envenom uptime anymore, you should build combo points, then reset your energy back to around 70% before maintaining again.
• For Deathstalker, try to stay under 50% as much as possible while maxing out Envenom uptime. Single target builds play vicious venoms instead of sanguine blades as well.

The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and use energy more efficiently for Deathstalker marks/cooldowns. Staying under 50% leads to more envenom casts, which is more Darkest Night Procs. For Fatebound, heads flips contribute damage regardless of if you're flipping or not, so this pressure to keep spending is lessened.

[wind comet]

is there anywhere to find a list of pre-raid bis items

[cobalt sphinx]

no i think you'll get screeched at for asking for something like that around here

[indigo mulch]

A rule of tumb is just to go for whatever is the highest ilvl 😄

[normal mist]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

BiS lists are not helpful towards gearing yourself. In order for BiS items to truly be BiS, all items in the list have to be obtained at that level exactly, or else it doesn't make sense. Missing a socket for example would shift your stats slightly. You should always compare your gear through top gear or droptimizer instead.

Pre-raid or Pre-season BiS is especially not helpful, and we do not have any of them. These are absolute meaningless bait for gear that you will be replacing the moment the season comes out. The recommendation is simply to get all your heroic gear to 580 and then craft 590 slots (wrist/belt/rings are good)

[indigo mulch]

What ilvl will the m0 gear be at?

[forest nacelle]

!ds

[normal mist]

593 iirc

[indigo mulch]

[forest nacelle]

so what do we do about ER not consuming Mark?

just set and forget?

[indigo mulch]

yup

[normal mist]

!DN

[prisma monolith]

Do I need to always be in stealth to apply a Deathstalker Mark?

• Only the initial application. Darkest Night reapplies and will be the majority of your applications
  Echoing Reprimand....
• Yes, Echoing Reprimand doesn't interact with the Mark / Darkest Night, this is one of the biggest bugs still plaguing Deathstalker as a whole
• Until it is fixed, you would want to run 2/2 Lethality and still put 1 point into Echoing Reprimand
  But the 3rd cp or something?
• Correct, there has been a newly found... bug? interaction? With the Mark and Echoing Reprimand. It requires you to have your 3rd combo point be animacharged, the Mark be applied from Darkest Night, and then consuming the animacharge with Envenom. Should all those conditions be met, it will consume a stack of the Mark as intended.
  Does Blizzard know?
• There is no way they don't know. This has been mass reported, screamed from the rooftops, highlighted in every wowhead article, youtube video, forum post and stream since Deathstalker was revealed in alpha. The only thing we can do is keep reporting the bug through the in-game report, making noise on forums, and waiting.

[normal mist]

If you get the single Anima charged CP, consume it

[forest nacelle]

kk

tyty

[indigo mulch]

its weird that it just works on 3rd cp though

[strange python]

is this normal?

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice is always 6 minutes yes

[strange python]

and 1 boss is normal too?

[balmy condor]

yes

that's how its set up

[strange python]

thank youuuu

[neat ferry]

Hey guys! How do you sim your assassination rogue in raidbots for m+ content? Pathwerk with 5 bosses or dungeon slice?

[empty viper]

guys , what are your twinks ? Everything else beside rogue feels so slow

[indigo mulch]

Try enha shaman 😄

I feel like i play wackamole when i play enha.

[empty viper]

dont have that yet .. could be an option 😄

[glass hemlock]

Is m0 loot still weekly lockout ?

[indigo mulch]

Daily.

[empty viper]

tried to like casters but they are resident sleeper

[real pike]

enjoying whispyr's wa package but noticed the DsM icon is invisible when Darkest Night is up, is this something I've done when tinkering with it or intentional/a blizz bug?

[empty viper]

cant gaslight myself

[balmy condor]

I fixed it earlier

[indigo mulch]

Affliction is pretty hype. Its basically the same playstyle as rogue ;o

[real pike]

glorious ❤️

[indigo mulch]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[empty viper]

i played an affli till 574 dont want to put more time into since its pretty boring

and manual reapply agony is not fun

[indigo mulch]

o.o; its like applying rupture though ;X

[empty viper]

but it doesnt give me 4% agi and punish if u miss it running out

[strange python]

i do more than dungeon slice sim and do less than patchwerk x5 sim. it ranges from 1.1m dungeon slice- 2.7m patchwerk x5 - i would say i can hit 2M in some pulls but it depends on how fast things die

[empty viper]

i think i give shaman a shot

[neat ferry]

Is 2.7m sim possible? 😮

[indigo mulch]

5 bosses patchwerk is 100% uptime on 5 targets. Thats not how dungeon slice work.

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mbSDjSSGQ6XfYWYtABRZsh unless i did something wrong?

[neat ferry]

Holy moly, how do you achieve that dps haha

[balmy condor]

It’s just not something people sim

[indigo mulch]

There is a big difference between how dungonslice work and 5 target patchwerk

[fleet pagoda]

I see the Elemental Focusing Lens has potentially different schools of damage it applies based on gems. is it safe to assume that's something we wouldn't worry about, or am I overlooking a way we'd optimize that?

[balmy condor]

It’s not even good

[strange python]

which do you prefer using?

[balmy condor]

So idk

Wouldn’t care

[fleet pagoda]

so is it on the wowhead guide as a "you need to have three things listed for emblishment options"?

[quartz locust]

wish we had the Bee trinket for M+, this shit fucks

[waxen oyster]

because its bugged

[balmy condor]

Because I need to have three things listed for embellishments

[waxen oyster]

i literally mentioned bees on tuesday

[balmy condor]

And I left the editor note in out of pure spite for this dogshit ass expansion

[waxen oyster]

wow community takes forever to catch on

[glass hemlock]

Another quick one; are there 4 or 8 dungeons when M0 kicks off?

[quartz locust]

ive had since last week, didn't realize it was doing full damage to all targets til like 2 days ago

[spice surge]

All the S1 dungeons

[glass hemlock]

Awesome!

Thanks for the quick answers

[indigo mulch]

I wouldnt use either, but if i had to i'd do dungeon slice

[strange python]

do you have a different method of simming?

[errant mauve]

@balmy condor sub or sin

[normal mist]

outlaw

[errant mauve]

not an option, i only play outlaw when im pretending to be a pirate

[quartz locust]

thats like asking an italian chef, pasta or sushi lol

[strange python]

any reason at all? what resource you use?

[normal mist]

exactly

[quartz locust]

the few other rogue specs ive come across in heroics, i've doubled/tripled their overall damage as sin

[strange python]

yeah sin for now* seems to be one of the best aoe damage specs still

[errant mauve]

yea but ST raid is what i want to pump for

[quartz locust]

literally havent been beat overall damage yet since getting to 580+ ilvl

[strange python]

idk, imma need to get some outlaw weapons

[quartz locust]

best part about pure dps spec is you can play the best spec for a given situation

[empty viper]

same

[normal mist]

i was joking obviously

[quartz locust]

like it's never even close

[strange python]

any decent outlaw gamers here that can post a clip of them hitting dummies?

[indigo mulch]

The problem with dungeon slice is that its almost impossible to create sims for it.

[empty viper]

seems like you chilled 😄

[strange python]

i believe in outlaw tho is the issue - lol so idk, you could be right

[quartz locust]

tank was chain pulling the whole dungeon lol

[empty viper]

classic

[indigo mulch]

Outlaw has a very very bad damage profile. Even if its doing 200k more than sin it might not be that great. 😒

[errant mauve]

whats you ST though

[waxen oyster]

i mean heroic dungeon overalls dont matter

[empty viper]

poison bomb procs into a full pack >

[waxen oyster]

love playing tank and just gapping

[quartz locust]

this was last boss of priory

[indigo mulch]

Bosses dies in like 30s or less. Your more or less still in your burst window when the boss dies ;s

[orchid cedar]

there are some classes that would wipe the floor with Assa

in HC dungeons

becouse they can basically oneshot the pulls and you miss out on a lot of dmg

[errant mauve]

you guys craft the dagger with spark or saving it

[indigo mulch]

I mean, assa can't even use their cooldowns on anything other than bosses in HC dungeons so yeah that make sense i guess.

[orchid cedar]

gl with assa trying to beat my DH in every pull where i can dump the Eye beam stuff and everything dies there

[empty viper]

i crafted 606 wrist with embellishment

[strange python]

i was told it was not recommended to use spark just yet due to possible embellishment tuning

[wide oasis]

That's good, my lazy ass can just spam Fan of Knives and Crimson Tempest and let try hards do the job for me. It's HC afterall

[orchid cedar]

wait until wednesday to craft

[waxen oyster]

spamming ct

[empty viper]

i can just recraft it later to higher gs so idc 😄

[orchid cedar]

you lose nothing and it's safer

you can even wait to mythic week if you don't need it for normal/HC

[waxen oyster]

i feel like cloak is a better embellish slot

since bracers can have sockets

[empty viper]

but you can have 2 in total , right?

[waxen oyster]

yeah

assuming they nerf ascension

[wintry pagoda]

haste isnt increasing poison/bleed tickspeed right, only attackspeed and base energy regen, so theres prolly no qol breakpoint behind haste to make energy income feel any better

[loud trench]

are people going FB or DS for raid next week even with the ER not being fixed (or was it and I missed it)

[quartz locust]

DS is still better ST i think

regardless of ER interaction

[earnest remnant]

Haste does increase their tickrate

[wintry pagoda]

[normal mist]

The rest of what you said remains true

[wintry pagoda]

so no headaches

[normal mist]

Yep!

Read this

!design

[prisma monolith]

Running out of energy in single target is completely normal, intended design of Assassination. You want to be playing for the highest uptime on Envenom, and not blindly spamming away all your energy. Rapid Injection, Sanguine Blades, and Vicious Venoms all play into this gameplay.

• No, haste will not make this feel noticeably better.
• 10% haste only contributes to around 2 actions per minute
• You should be playing for envenom uptime in single target

[gusty mirage]

Ye you’d need a fuckton of haste to feel a difference

For energy regen purposes at least

[dark token]

300% haste feels good

[gusty mirage]

8.3 vibes throwback

[dark token]

mop remix vibes throwback

[junior aurora]

my rogue is canonically on coke

[gusty mirage]

Sheeeeeeet

[wintry pagoda]

tyvm

[gusty mirage]

Do it irl coward

[dark token]

this trinket is quite funny

i bound it to my deathmark

[junior aurora]

gave my last baggie to someone else in this discord sorry

[dark token]

so i yeet through the boss on my opener

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-22727788

[dark token]

feels quite fun

[indigo mulch]

Its such a massive damgur on it D:

[blissful cosmos]

guys we still try to maintime 100 uptime on the evenom buff for rapid injection right

[strange python]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2243929192 -- at 1:12:00 - 2 outlaw rogues start a dungeon if anyone is interested in the meters

[blissful cosmos]

and also is it ok to sit on a low anima charge for awhile almost like pooling to keep chaining the buff?

or do i want to keep going to full combo points

[wintry pagoda]

using animacharged is like going to full without going to full

[blissful cosmos]

do i want to get the highest one tho

[tired gull]

If you land on anima charge, use it

Unless you have darkest night

[blissful cosmos]

only reaosn im aksing is if i sit on a low on for while to chain the eveomon buff am i possibly missinbg out on a blindside proc

[tired gull]

As long as you’re not capping energy it all balances out

[blissful cosmos]

but we still play to maining the evenomb buff right

[junior aurora]

only outlaw rogues would be interested in meters

[tired gull]

Yeah, if you land on anima charge, just treat it like you’re at 5+

[blissful cosmos]

alright

people trying to say sub and outlaw is going to eb better for raid but my assa is siming higher right now

i didnt even try outlaw sim tho caus ei aint going to play it

[tired gull]

Play what you find most fun

[earnest remnant]

sims =/= actual raid performance

[remote vector]

do y'all play with improved poison and sanguine blades or VV?

[strange python]

i think anyone who likes to compare specs would be interested

[blissful cosmos]

yea thats true stealthi

[shy pecan]

It’s fucking heroic dungeons…

And very trivial content

[earnest remnant]

who's fuckin heroic dungeons?
t

thats kinda weird

ngl

[shy pecan]

This guy that's posting videos about outlaw rogues in the sin channel

That's who

[cerulean nest]

stealthi you playing sub next week?

[rapid prism]

my outlaw sims higher than my assa with pure crit/mastery gear both ST and dungeon slice XD sadge

[earnest remnant]

[normal mist]

!best

[prisma monolith]

All Specs are good and have niches and strengths that they play to. All three specs are looking viable with Assassination/Subtlety being preferred in raids. Mythic+ meta has not solidified yet but Assassination looked promising during beta.

Be aware that Simulations are a tool to be used to compare things like talents/gear/rotations, they are not the definite answer to what is meta or not meta. While outlaw is ahead in sims right now, especially dungeonslice, you have to take a step back and realize these are synthetic/generic situations that we use as a baseline. Dungeonslice has always been a great showing for outlaw simply due to the fight style matching well with the spec. This is not unusual or unheard of.

You can view logs of the raid when it comes out Here, or view the mythic+ run leaderboard Here.

[normal mist]

Outlaw will MOST LIKELY sim higher for everyone

[rapid prism]

i know why im just laughing at the fact it does

im still playing assa

[blissful cosmos]

outlaw is like scam bro dont trust its sims

[dire bane]

did assa got stealth nerfed?

[normal mist]

?

when why and how

[rapid prism]

ive played all 3 specs and outlaw is strong. but heroics arent the best gauge either

[junior aurora]

no outlaw got stealth nerfed

(rip shadow dance)

[blissful cosmos]

i just dont trust outlaw in raid in mytic plus its awesome

[dire bane]

damnnn no way it was sleeper with full haste

[normal mist]

you mean 10-15% unbuffed

[indigo mulch]

I feel like sin does better in m+ than outlaw does D; but thats just my opinion ;s

[blissful cosmos]

it doe sproabaly

[dire bane]

i mean late gear

[normal mist]

?

[blissful cosmos]

assa is insane in mytic plus right now

to fun

[dire bane]

beta

[normal mist]

bro

[blissful cosmos]

like we actually might be meta

[normal mist]

they just want 15% haste unbuffed

for the extra GCD inside ADR

[past forum]

Nah, my stealth button works just fine

[indigo mulch]

I looked at some spreadsheet and if its correct i actually feel bad for outlaw. their 2p+4p gives them 0.9% damage.

[earnest remnant]

dont be

they dont deserve pity

[indigo mulch]

Ah! Sorry!

Yeah serves those adhd bunnies right.

I think sin is like third lowest or some shit like that with 2.1% dmg increase, but other classes arent that much futher like 3~5% on most of them

[gusty mirage]

yeah assa and sub are real lucky, they got a whopping like 1.8%

[indigo mulch]

1.8% sorry 😄

[proper tapir]

Didn't forget about you ❤️

[gusty mirage]

the tier sets are actually all kinda dogshit

ngl

[indigo mulch]

Agreed.

[grave blade]

👀

[indigo mulch]

There are very few tiersets that are "good"

[proper tapir]

Let’s put the build debate to rest! I’ve compiled sim results with a major focus on M+ builds. The top DSlice build is Hybrid (Cold Blood) Deathstalker. Maybe ER will win if we ever get the fix, who knows.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQvQhvGUkIxSodGmLyWPZNCENs61Ct0VVe0dD4UCquv0TYeorF1dZ004vkEllUNTewZGFMlFlRGVX0k/pubhtml

[waxen oyster]

sending full crit mast as sin is a trap

[dire bane]

what raid fatebound is only 5k lower ?

[indigo mulch]

I mean they been super close for awhile now.

[proper tapir]

That's what the robot said

[proper tapir]

You sim at full BiS, that's how it's done

[waxen oyster]

who has full bis

[earnest remnant]

me

[proper tapir]

The robot, mate. I gave her the full set

[waxen oyster]

yeah and you’re assuming no tuning changes will happen

also as if dslice is accurate

m+ andies are beyond cooked

[proper tapir]

Bro, that's like the assumption we all make every day. Right now those sims are accurate.

[waxen oyster]

so you basically just repeated what whispyr said

that hybrid is better

[proper tapir]

No, I am showing you that it's better. Plus I am showing you that CB is good.

[odd flare]

Are there any u buffed thresholds we should try to aim for, Crit, haste, mastery etc

[fleet pagoda]

nope. just ilvl and sims.

[indigo mulch]

If you want to give up ironwire for 20k dps your insane.

[waxen oyster]

m+ is a special type of brainrot

[indigo mulch]

Bro, its not even that. giving up ironwire for like 0.5% damage is stupidity. noone would do that.

Mob control is always better.

[waxen oyster]

yeah

m+ isnt tight on damage checks

at all

just people treat it like a moba and dps meters as the end all

[remote vector]

Guys, i am unsure what to do. Whispyr's guide goes 2xVV, but Celverion or smth like that recommended to go Improved Poison and Sanguine Blade instead

[shy pecan]

It depends on what hero talents you go.

[waxen oyster]

you can sim talents for your own character

but the difference is so minor you can also just go VV and ignore the occasional fok on st

entirely

[dark token]

feels weird to entirely ignore the proc tbh

[spice spire]

0.5 it’s not even close

To that

It’s so little dam

[dark token]

iron wire

with 6s IC

is fucking sick

[dark token]

i can silence like 20 casters

[spice spire]

Yeah

IW is insane

[indigo mulch]

I know i just threw it out of my ass, but like.. Saying CB is better than IW is like saying "Stone taste good".

Its pretty stupid.

[junior aurora]

people can't see the forest for the trees

[remote vector]

How much do you hit on a dummy over 3 minutes?

I'm so overwhelmed with this spec atm

[whole sand]

You didn't get told that at all dude, you got told VV was best for pure ST

[remote vector]

Or that, ye

[whole sand]

Sim yourself against a dummy and then aim for that damage

[remote vector]

I did

sim comes out with 617k over 3 mins

i am at like 350k at 1:50

[whole sand]

Well your burst is wrong

[waxen oyster]

what makes you think i do a 3min dummy test

[whole sand]

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/guide/images/30177.png

You may need to mutilate after the first ER, (99% of the time you will)

[tall cradle]

do you guys consistantly reach x1000% increase on kingsbane?

[remote vector]

idk, just feel like everyone does

[tall cradle]

I feel like i'm doing something wrong

[waxen oyster]

mut if you dont land on blue yeah

[junior aurora]

u simming no buffs?

[remote vector]

yeah

[junior aurora]

then yea reread the rotation i guess

also you stopped right before another burst

[stuck knoll]

it's hard to give advice off of abstract numbers

[junior aurora]

3 mins should be a higher number than 1:50

[stuck knoll]

logs will always enable people to help better

[whole sand]

Your sim is high but that's because it's over 3 minutes

[wintry pagoda]

question, when i restealth and open with a ambush while a different target still has a deathstalkers mark, do i transfer or is the mark stuck until the first target dies?
tldr: only swap to a diff target with darkest night active, ever?

[remote vector]

let me log a dummy fight rq

[thorn fjord]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stuck knoll]

Like if you ambush vanish and then ambush a new target?

[tired gull]

Haven’t tried it but I imagine the mark would go on your new target

[stuck knoll]

Ye mark swaps

I just was making sure I understood the question

I just tested there on dummies

[remote vector]

how long should the Log be?

[stuck knoll]

Well if you want to know if you're doing anything wrong over the course of 3 minutes 3 minutes

[remote vector]

i mean

[median roost]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[remote vector]

the mistake has to happen some time before that

Since i dont hit 600k in some of my openers

[stuck knoll]

sounds like you should reread the guide and make sure you understand how to do your opener

[fleet pagoda]

have you spent much time practicing the opener by itself? if you think you're making a mistake in that sequence, might be of benefit to focus on improving that and putting the 3min test on the back burner

[stuck knoll]

I also don't think you are simming without buffs in that case

if you are simming 615k on a 3min dummy sim

[stuck knoll]

if you wanna sim versus a dummy

do this fight style

also you still have all those buffs you just don't have raid buffs

[remote vector]

oh i didnt know that

[wintry pagoda]

okidok
thank you

[remote vector]

lemme see

oh lol

that one turns out with 506k

i mean

i dont reach that just yet, but its at least not that far away from what i have rn

[fleet pagoda]

still worth investing time in your opener, though. and probably the 1min-interval cd windows as well 🙂

[stuck knoll]

^^

[indigo mulch]

Getting used to managing your energy is very good as well.

don't just slam everything constantly.

[stuck knoll]

if you feel yourself losing a lot of damage on sin it's really just making sure your bleeds are maintained and making sure your CDs are good if you can do both well you've got 80% of the spec already

[fleet pagoda]

I didn't look up the updated builds and somehow had a VV + sanguine blades build runnin for a little bit. my mans was exhausted

[remote vector]

i am

[stuck knoll]

that shit draint

[earnest remnant]

what if, i dont like bleeds?

[indigo mulch]

Just focus on maintaining high uptime on envenom.

[earnest remnant]

i just wanna envenom

bonk bonk

big numbah

[indigo mulch]

I wish i could play like that to be fair D:

[stuck knoll]

may I suggest

[earnest remnant]

may i suggest

[stuck knoll]

thoughts on gamba

[earnest remnant]

go fuck yourself

[indigo mulch]

kekw

[earnest remnant]

[stuck knoll]

only if you do it first

[nova wolf]

[stuck knoll]

[indigo mulch]

[earnest remnant]

i hope both warrior and rogue sucks this tier

just so you dont get to play

[stuck knoll]

well

[earnest remnant]

[stuck knoll]

You are looking to be correcto

why play either when can play mage

[remote vector]

i cant seem to log a dummy fight.. it will always pick up some Bonespike ticking from the fight 2 minutes ago

[indigo mulch]

I'd rather put my penis in a blender than main mage 😦

[stuck knoll]

same

[dark token]

Warrior looks good

Outlaw looks good

[indigo mulch]

Why do people keep saying outlaw looks good? 😒

[earnest remnant]

the outlaw copers

that the spec is raid viable

[remote vector]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dDhW8QH472BGmYtx#fight=6&type=damage-done&source=14&view=timeline

hope that helps

[blazing jewel]

@stuck knoll play feral

[indigo mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[earnest remnant]

scana go do horizontal content in Lost Ark