assassination

[real pike]

pretty sure it was ST

but yeah fair enough

[limber lion]

Oh sorry

1.5m*

[real pike]

you guys are doing 1.5m? 😦

[limber lion]

No

The end game build does

[real pike]

ahhh I see

[limber lion]

But sure, we can round to 1 mil instead

[royal lantern]

i just always say the same

I got 99-100 as Vulpera, which is the "worst" race

and then you have people telling you that race is giga important for dps

[crystal delta]

quick question about the new 4set bonus - does this only work if there are 5 or more mobs? since i need to have 5 stacks of gar etc.? or do those stacks count differently?

[limber lion]

1.00m vs 1.01m is still not giga

[distant plinth]

You can get 101 by being a mecha gnome LUL

[real pike]

I'm currently simming at 660k so been looking for more incremental increases but yea prob just need to chill a bit

[limber lion]

Looking at sim numbers atm when the season hasn't even started is kinda super whatever

It's all going down the drain next week

[real pike]

I know I normally don't care but trial in a new guild etc so don't wanna be bottom of le pile and all that

[limber lion]

One clear of the raid and 10 mythic+ and suddenly you're at 1m

[radiant raven]

Vulpera is the best race 'cos they're adorable and have the best /sleep. This outweighs every possible number.

[limber lion]

Yeye I get it

Doing the rotation extremely well is much more important than a race will ever be

Race only matters when you're playing like a robot

Or if you want racials for utility

[orchid cedar]

are the chores of the treacherous transmiter trinket that bad?

[limber lion]

I played Blood Elf for the looks personally for years

[crystal delta]

Any idea on how the new 4set will play out? what do they mean with the "stacks" of garrote rupture and CT? is it that it has to be applied to 5 diff targets at the same time?

[limber lion]

Until I was forced to go Tauren for Raszageth'

Yuk

[real pike]

I'm troll atm for fun reasons so yeah just checking I'm not missing anything giga, not like my guild is RWF or anything

[radiant raven]

Did you return to non-tauren after?

[royal lantern]

"walk into this circle for the trinket effect, its inside a aoe effect btw"

"didnt do it? no trinket for you now xdddd"

[real pike]

watching all the top guilds go dorf last xpac was pretty funny

[orchid cedar]

i saw one that was jump three times

[limber lion]

The latter part says that it increases your Garrote/Rupture/CT damage

[orchid cedar]

that looked easy enough

[limber lion]

Not that you need stacks

You build stacks with the 2p

And when you have 5 2p stacks

Then your Gar/Rup/CT do 10% more dam

While you have 5 or more stacks of Vile Tincture, Garrote, Rupture, and Crimson Tempest deal 10% additional damage.

[crystal delta]

ahhhhh nvm im dumb xD

okok and you basically gonna nearly always have the 5 stacks right?

[limber lion]

Should probably include a "your" before the Garrote

[crystal delta]

yeah thats what confused me

[limber lion]

"5 or more stacks of Vile Tincture, your Garrote, Rupture and CT..."

[limber lion]

Yupyup

[real pike]

@limber lion seeing as you're here :> I'm sure you've been asked a gazillion times so apologies but are you planning on updating your plater profile for the new xpac?

[limber lion]

Well, nothing's changed much and it still functions the same

[agile geode]

So specs are balanced for raid rn?

[limber lion]

But yes, I will add Deathstalker's mark to it eventually

[limber lion]

No

[agile geode]

I mean rogue specs

[limber lion]

No

[agile geode]

Kek

Sin in what spot Is?

[limber lion]

worst

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limber lion]

who knows what the numbers are gonna be in one week

after heroic tuning

[royal lantern]

@spice spire knows

[lament dagger]

wait outlaw actually tops in ST?

🥲

[subtle tundra]

yes better go learn it

otherwise no raid spot

[royal lantern]

i wonder if people never look at sim numbers

or just forget them like a goldfish

cus otherwhise they would know that outlaw is always 1 of the highest

and that it doesnt matter lol

[lament dagger]

i know it usually never translates

but the difference seems a bit high so i was wondering

[tired gull]

Only reason I’m a velf right now, would be belf if horde

[tawny pawn]

simulation was telling me to go Shiv -> KB -> Tea

[tawny pawn]

uh whenever you usually dont play rogue that ends up happening

ppl dont even know how rogues works at all

so ye, its kinda a surprise to some people how can a class like outlaw can sim high but difficult to reproduce

[limber lion]

Might wanna read the other comments there...

[tawny pawn]

it was back there but if i remember correctly, you guys said it doesnt matter too much right?

[limber lion]

I don't understand the sentence

You press tea if you're at 3 charges

or if you get 100 energy during Shiv windows

[tawny umbra]

!STATS

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[limber lion]

those are the 2 conditions

[tawny pawn]

i see

[limber lion]

Well, one more condition is "do not press if one tea buff is already up"

So you don't spam them either

[tawny pawn]

what i find funny about simulation is that it only uses tea once in the opener, doesnt even try to snipe last few seconds of KB(it should right?) and then proceeds to keep the 2 teas for the 1min mini-reopener.

[robust river]

If PTR Dracthr changes go through to let rogues be Dragons, with current racials, every high level M+ rogue is basically going to have to race change right? Racials seem too good to ignore...

[tawny pawn]

sims are weird but they do calculations based on kill time. trying to fit stuff in that 5min window, things can get really weird XD

[robust river]

Note, I'm talking like elite players, not your +10 players obviously.

[limber lion]

So, might wanna read the conditions I literally just posted again

Let me know if you see any remark about Kingsbane

[balmy condor]

Wow the sim is playing perfectly

[limber lion]

(you won't)

[tawny pawn]

ye i know its just interesting

[limber lion]

idk, not too many people give a crap about racials

[limber lion]

No, you don't know

[strange python]

This won't matter really with the changes to thistle tea

[limber lion]

It literally does

In the opener with lust and all cds, you won't go below 50%

you have to press tea manually

[tawny pawn]

there there

[robust river]

They have two AOE CC's/Interrupts though right? That seems pretty hard to pass up on if trying to min/max M+ CC for pushing the boundaries. Maybe NELF re-stealth competes for some dungeons?

[strange python]

Wait I thought you couldn't press it at all

[limber lion]

No, it's still a button

[strange python]

Oh ok my bad

[limber lion]

Npnp live and learn

[robust river]

Oh new thistle is a button that auto presses below 50 energy? (PTR)?

[limber lion]

Nelf hardly competes with anything

[orchid cedar]

change won't go live 🙂

[limber lion]

?

[robust river]

Oh restealth in combat got removed right? It's out of combat only now?

Haven't played NELF in forever

[tawny pawn]

i guess he meant now

[limber lion]

No, you can still meld in combat

But what does that do for you?

[orchid cedar]

if they react to the backlash they very well could scrap the change or do it in some other way

[raven egret]

Its not a new button, same button just with an additional passive trigger

[limber lion]

What backlash?

If they cared about "backlash", stuff like Exsanguinate wouldn't exist

And they would fix the bugs that are plaguing our class

[robust river]

Was thinking skip mobs, stealth but that would require all 5 nelfs wouldn't it 😄

[raven egret]

I still think that a choice node or else would be a better implementation

[orchid cedar]

you need competent workers for that

[limber lion]

That's what Shroud is for

[balmy condor]

Tea change is like most useless backlash imaginable

[next dust]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[robust river]

Yeah true

[balmy condor]

Might as well protest that you gotta open a window for fresh air

[limber lion]

Blinds down, windows closed always

🥶

[tawny pawn]

i mean there are a lot of optimazations that you can choose not to do so that will make you loose 1-2%, that doesnt make them irrelevant

[orchid cedar]

opening a window is bassically what you have to do now

[balmy condor]

And will continue to have to do

[orchid cedar]

not having to wait until an specific temp to get it open for you

but ye

[balmy condor]

If you’re a min max optimize to the end of your days player

Tea change literally does not affect you

You can move on with your day

[limber lion]

What is this comment refering to?

[raven egret]

I mean in terms of priority yeah tea feedback isn't exactly high, as opposed to finally hearing about damn ER and DS

[robust river]

Do we know (or think?) tea will override it's own mastery buff if you drop back below 50 energy within the 6 seconds? Or will it have an internal passive timer? Or extend it maybe?

[tawny pawn]

i think it might override, cause the condition is <50 energy

[balmy condor]

Yeh it’ll just eat back to back

But like

What kind of monster are you

To full spam all your energy that hard

[orchid cedar]

that won't happen with cds up

[limber lion]

Good thing we use tea outside of Deathmark as well

My experience with Assa got 100 times better when I stopped spamming the buttons 17 times a second

Hitting Mutilate once every 1.5s or whatever

and chilling

Very cozy

[balmy condor]

You’d spread the teas out pretty much the same as you do now on a odd minute kingsbane

[robust river]

But my apm reeeeeeeee

[limber lion]

Just add a spell queue of 1s

[tawny pawn]

Question, does plague dmg interact with our mastery? I mean, is it used like poison?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[tawny pawn]

hmmm

that's nice

[limber lion]

It's nature + shadow dam

[balmy condor]

Both hero talents are affected by mastery

Cause would be silly not to

[tawny pawn]

oh yeah thank god

DS is looking better and better the more i look at it.

I thought it was going to be way harder too but its really not.

[keen rover]

If I want to learn the rotation should I just look at wowhead or is there another resource that might explain better?

[limber lion]

If the fact that Plague interacts with mastery is the reason you swap to Deathstalker

Idk

Very interesting

[tawny pawn]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[limber lion]

Stuff that literally doesn't matter whatsoever

[tawny pawn]

guides are really good.

[limber lion]

Wowhead good, Whispyr's youtube videos good

[orchid cedar]

nothing from classes affected items right?

[limber lion]

No

[orchid cedar]

mastery or talents

[limber lion]

No

[tawny pawn]

whisp might get mad sometimes but his guides and videos are top tier

[keen rover]

Ill check out the video. Im a more visual learner for sure. Tyty

[limber lion]

On-use talents generally have versatility scaling and sometimes they scale with haste

But nothing in the class toolkit affects them

[tawny pawn]

thats what i was worried to happen

[orchid cedar]

so nothing can affect the Queen's ring

[tawny pawn]

but guess its gonna scale well.

[limber lion]

Huh?

That's how trinkets have always worked

Literally

It's not a new thing

20 years now

the exact same

[orchid cedar]

since it's a buff that it's put on yourself and then you do the dmg

maybe it counted

[errant night]

first time i get 1mil on a dummy, wow

[limber lion]

Demonic UI

Man is gaming on a laptop

[tawny pawn]

MUTILATE

[errant night]

i'm a newbie

[limber lion]

Respectable

[radiant raven]

Kinda owns for minimal addon usage

[tawny pawn]

i like that honestly.

[limber lion]

If you care about the number on the bottom right, I would suggest looking into weakauras

We all started somewhere

[tawny pawn]

i think you are doing great thats very impressive

[errant night]

nah i don't like weakauras

[tawny pawn]

doin 1m on DS build its very good

[errant night]

i have only one

[limber lion]

You shouldn't look at the number on the bottom right then

[robust river]

I still use default wow UI bars and stuff Just have a WA sat in the middle and that's about it. I tried plater but I don't really like them...

[limber lion]

You're actively gimping yourself by not using Weakauras on Assassination

But each to their own

You basically have "weakauras" in the middle of your screen anyways

Except it's your massive action bars

[tawny pawn]

i mean for tracking buffs ye

for action bars, he can do whatever works for him

[robust river]

I'm not the person in the screenshot 😄

[limber lion]

Weakauras are basically the same, but with much, much more information

[errant night]

yeah but it's hekili. i use it essentially for tracking some stuff

[limber lion]

I'm also not talking to you

[limber lion]

Hekili is terrible for Assassination and should never be used

[serene solar]

Ceverion bro are you alright?

[limber lion]

But as a newbie, whatever go off

Would highly recommend looking into guides and getting rid of Hekili eventually

[novel star]

he always a lil madge it seems

[errant night]

wouldn't say. i'm practically always first in dungeons

[limber lion]

It's not a matter of preference, it's a fact

The module for Assassination rogue is terrible

But yeah, just saying

For the future, if you want to get better and improve the number that you're flexing on the right, look into weakauras and getting rid of hekili

[serene solar]

https://tenor.com/view/smile-sarcastic-smile-whatever-sure-yes-gif-13639726

Every message feels like it ends with this face

[strange python]

How does someone not like weakauras but likes Heikili, not judging but curious

[errant night]

i just use for tracking buffs etc. it's easier than look at the top of the screen and using weakauras (mb one day i'll install a new ui who knows)

[novel star]

i mean yeah hekilis bad but if ur having fun who cares i guess lol

[radiant raven]

There's some really good weakaura's in this very Discord that are worth looking into, that'll help learn the spec and provide a lot of useful info. And they're easy to learn to tweak, @errant night

[strange python]

Wait how do you track buffs with heikili

[limber lion]

Use it for tracking buffs? I'm confused

[errant night]

i also want to try elvui or smth

[limber lion]

That's not what Hekili is used for

Weakauras are used for tracking buffs

Hekili is a rotation helper

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[strange python]

Wait maybe he means it tells him when to refresh

Which is not tracking but ye

[limber lion]

Look at LE's 11.0 Group for an example of a weakaura package that tracks stuff

Weakauras are made especially for that

[novel star]

Elv is pretty good but it doesn't replace weakauras really, it just changes all the base ui stuff to look different and now with all the edit mode features its not as necessary

[radiant raven]

Ye, LE's is really good as a starting point.

[errant night]

not really tracking buffs. i meant that i use it for pressing buttons whenever it's needed

sorry for my English 🙂

[limber lion]

Also

[tawny pawn]

thats how i run mine

[limber lion]

Weakauras are used exactly to combat this

[orchid cedar]

ban all addons, problem solved

[limber lion]

So you don't have to look at the top of your screen

So you can look in the middle

[tawny pawn]

mostly elv ui and WA to track

[limber lion]

This is also not super great and optimal, but again

everyone has their preference

doesn't really matter at the end of the day

if you're chilling, you're chilling

[novel star]

elvui is fake news nowadays ngl

[limber lion]

Yeh, I use the default thingy

Since they updated the UI in Dragonflight, it's great

[strange python]

Elvui is good news nowadays compared to earlier dsys

[radiant raven]

The major benefit to a WA is flexibility. You can make it shout and scream or be subtle and simple. It's just a fantastic tool to tailor the information to your needs.

[novel star]

you can hide action bars with addons and everything else is customizable enough that its not worth bothering with elv jank

[strange python]

It got so much besser in terms of resources

[novel star]

imo

[errant night]

i will install it one day

[orchid cedar]

raiding without WA

[novel star]

what matters is that you are having fun

[orchid cedar]

big oof

but to each their own

[novel star]

and frankly you putting hekili/ur cds right in the middle of the screen like that is probably better than 90% of peoples uis

cause seeing cds and important buttons in the middle of your screen instead of the bottom or some corner or some shit is why people use WAs

its not as good as a wa but its better than no customization at all

[strange python]

He’s mostly saying to get rid of heikili because you are building bad muscle memory, of course if ur having fun that’s it but learning what the spec does and what you press makes you enjoy the game even more I guarantee you this

[limber lion]

Eventually you want to know what buttons to press and why you want to press them

[tawny pawn]

i would say WA is the only mandatory addon in wow LOL

[limber lion]

Using Hekili tells you what buttons to press, but you don't really learn the reasoning behind it

[tawny pawn]

it can do basicly anything

[strange python]

Once a spec clicks and you start understanding how stuff works

[limber lion]

It's true

[strange python]

Wow gets infinitely more fun

[limber lion]

You say that, as a person who barely uses WA

But yeah, it's true

[dim kelp]

you def dot need weakauras

dont

[novel star]

not using a WA pack is honestly fucking based

[tawny pawn]

i use WA a lot, just not for action bars yet

[radiant raven]

All The Things.

[tawny pawn]

maybe one day

[limber lion]

Not for action bars?

[strange python]

Depends on the content brother

[errant night]

i would love to understand all the basics of assa rogue, but my fire mage brain is kinda confused all the time haha

[slate crown]

I mean you technically don't NEED any addon

[limber lion]

That's... not what weakauras are for

You don't replace action bars with weakauras lol

Weakauras are not a replacement for anything

[novel star]

sin plays very differently to any other spec in the game (except like feral i guess) so makes sense to be overwhelmed. on ST at least

[limber lion]

It's in the name "addon"

[tawny pawn]

oh i see what you are saying

i shoudlnt need to look at my AB's just track it with WA

ye that might be correct yes

[limber lion]

Eventually you should be able to hide your action bars and never look at them

And only track stuff with weakauras

[errant night]

i would also love to know what is exactly ST 😄

[limber lion]

because you remember your keybinds without having to look at them

Single Target

[novel star]

single target

[errant night]

right

[tawny pawn]

ye def the most optimal, whenever i feel more confortable maybe

[novel star]

sin doesn't have enough energy to press a button every gcd in single target like pretty much any other class in the game does

[limber lion]

If you want to do the maximum amount of dps, you gotta bite the bullet at some point

[novel star]

in aoe we mash but not st

so its a lil weird to get used to

[limber lion]

If you never swap to Weakauras, you never learn to use them

[novel star]

and i dont know if hekili teaches u this or not ive never used it or seen it used

[limber lion]

Just gotta do it one point and stick to it

[slate crown]

You look weakauras because you think it makes you do better dps, I look at weakauras because its pretty and I like looking at pretty things, we are not the same

[limber lion]

Hekili is honestly pretty good for Demon Hunter and Warrior

[indigo meadow]

is there a reason that the latest sim doesn't comsume clear the witness charges anymore? just ignores the talent completely?

[limber lion]

But for Assa it falls flat

[novel star]

vicious venoms

[limber lion]

Doesn't know the rules and conditions for different target counts/cooldowns

[radiant raven]

i look at weakaura's because I made Jani doing a dance my combo points

[novel star]

ctw only beats mutilate in single target if you dont have vicious venoms

[limber lion]

It might reapply bleeds when mobs are about to die

[slate crown]

[novel star]

if you do mutilate is still better

[tawny pawn]

i like minimizing space, but my bars are prob my next upgrade ye

[limber lion]

You getting rid of the action bars would be "minimizing space"

[indigo meadow]

than a 35 energy cp builder that gives 2 combo points and does 100% more damage?

[tawny pawn]

yes

i would

[limber lion]

Slapping the weakaura package in the middle and hiding the bars

Or just putting the bars on the bottom

Or whatever

[tawny pawn]

im wondering what are you guys NOT blacklisting?

[tired gull]

Big fan of moving action bars towards the center of screen to track cds (if I wasn’t using wa)

[limber lion]

Blacklisting in terms of what?

[tawny pawn]

plater

[novel star]

yes because you spent 2 talent points to make your mutilate do 70% more damage

[limber lion]

Everything

[novel star]

?

[limber lion]

Except Garrote, Rupture, CT, Lethal poison and so on

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[novel star]

the reason its good without vicious venoms is because youre comparing a 100% buffed fan to a base mutilate

when you compare a 200% fan to a 170% mutilate that also is interacting with shiv and shit

[limber lion]

Like this is what my plater looks like

literally everything is blacklisted

[novel star]

it should be pretty obv

[limber lion]

except for these

[tawny pawn]

oh i dont have amp or dead

[limber lion]

You can blacklist them, it's fine

It's not super important anymore

It was more relevant in Shadowlands

[novel star]

🤓 poison tracking is pointless and cp on the plates clutters your screen!

[tawny pawn]

the things i try to keep track is gar, rpt, ct, and caustic splatter

[slate crown]

I also filter CT and the poisons, I only show KB/rupt/gar, but still using yours

[radiant raven]

Do you typically use manual buff tracking, and then whitelist stuff, or just blacklist stuff?

[limber lion]

1. You need to track poisons for 2T because you want to make sure both targets are poisoned to benefit from Venomous Wounds as you would only be mutilating a single target and not using FoK.

2. Combo Points are shown so you can literally only look at the nameplates in AoE situations and not your weakauras.

Plater is for AoE, Weakauras are for ST

[slate crown]

And I don't show CP on nameplate either

[limber lion]

Everything down to preference

I don't look at my weakauras pretty much at all when multidotting

All the information is on the plater

[radiant raven]

That's a good idea. I'm going to steal that approach for my own.

[tawny pawn]

i stopped tracking KB cause the WA was doing that for me anyways

[limber lion]

That's why the stuff that you track on your weakauras, you don't need to track on the plater

Like if you track CT on your weakauras, you can remove it from plater

Or vice versa

Just depends on your playstyle

[novel star]

does 1 fan anyway like a boss

[limber lion]

FoK doesn't guarantee a poison application

So you can end up using it 5 times

and never getting poison application

and not knowing

because you don't track it

But yeah like said, it doesn't really matter nowadays

It was more relevant in Shadowlands

Back then Garrote/Rupture didn't apply lethal poisons either

But that was fixed (as it was considered a bug) after a while

[tawny pawn]

clear the witness is too weak 😦

[limber lion]

Definitely not

[tawny pawn]

ill rephrase, clear the witness it useless single target

[limber lion]

Not even

You still use it in ST

[tawny pawn]

my sims tell me to completly ignore it

[radiant raven]

It does a lot of damage for a single FoK

[tawny pawn]

not a single cast

[radiant raven]

Pop it up on a dummy and check how much damage it does.

[tawny pawn]

it can deal a great amount of dmg but it if its not optimal overall shouldnt matter

[radiant raven]

Think about how much damage (and combies) you're getting from using a single FoK even in ST, though.

[tired gull]

You only fok st when not running vv

[slate crown]

My UI, My raid/party frames go below my WA between my WA and my action bars. I never really look at my action bars, unless I'm reapplying poisons or clicking profession buttons.

I like keeping them shown because sometimes I get random items I want to throw on a misc keybind or something and having actionbars available and not hidden makes that easy

disclaimer Sorry for the discord ping don't care enough to re-record

[limber lion]

It's not even the dam, it's the cp generation

[tawny pawn]

multilate its just better cause of the mark

[limber lion]

First of all, eww

I can't believe you're using a fullscreen stealth effect

But otherwise yeah pretty similar UI to mine

Very typical chat on left, details on the right, hp bars and weakauras in the middle

[radiant raven]

I'm gonna post my horrible UI now.

[tawny pawn]

i have nothing to complain besides the DOUBLE FLYING POINTS TRACKERS

that mads me

[slate crown]

I installed the WA about a week ago and I like it! It's fun! You can thank @silk bane for that

[slate crown]

Yeah that's because flying points are an "Encounter bar"

[tawny pawn]

you cant high the blizzard tracker?

ohhhh

yes.

dam.

[slate crown]

and when I tried to hide it and manage it appropriately

with my own tracker in the middle

it messes up other encounter trackers

Hiding/reshowing blizzard frames is complicated

and my flying tracker in the middle of my screen is just a personal bar I made for myself, I haven't published it so I cba to make it perfect

[errant night]

guys I have one question regarding consumables. i suppose i need to use food buff "Well fed" which is giving me 469 of my highest secondary stat for 1 hour whenever I drink Tempered potion (which gives randomized stats). but the only thing I do not really understand is that will it be based on the percentage (shown in Enhancements, Character Panel) or on the Numbers shown before the percentage?

[limber lion]

Why don't you just use the blizz encounter bar instead?

[limber lion]

Well, it's kind of irrelevant information

But it is the flat number

Every class scales their mastery differently

Some specs have 500%+ from their mastery, as it's an entirely different effect

[slate crown]

2 reasons:

1. I wanted to learn how the special ui element worked so I could work with it in the future, it was an exercise in learning it so I just kept it. Also this toon isn't a gatherer, on my gatherer I have more specific things around it that make it cohesive.
2. There's a minor edge case where a bubble that is just barely filled looks very similar to one that is actually filled. They are colored very similarly. This bothered me. So in mine I make the coloring very different for full vs not full so it's much easier to tell

[robust river]

Going to have to spend some time on my UI later. You guys making me feel bad 🤣

[errant night]

so what would be the rule? just eat and drink randomly?

[limber lion]

Fair enough, I can fuck with the #2 point for sure yeah

[limber lion]

The rule is to use the highest level consumable

But it doesn't really matter which one you use

[radiant raven]

2 is a real good reason.

[limber lion]

In raids you would use feasts that someone places down

Stats are an ancient relic and do not really contribute to the spec much

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Fatebound will generally want more crit than Deathstalker due to Deal Fate
• Deathstalker prefers more Mastery/Haste due to Darkest Night guaranteeing a crit
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[limber lion]

What matters is getting as much stats as possible

[slate crown]

It's funny cause there are minor thigns you may want in the blizz UI changed, but in order to change the minor thing, you have to recreate the whole god damn thing from the ground up this this the eternal way of addons

[limber lion]

But it doesn't really matter what stats

[radiant raven]

Y e p. I've been messing about with my concept for a shitpost WA for the imp telephone trinket and hooboy.

[errant night]

so just eat and drink not looking on the stats

[limber lion]

Just use something

and you're gucci

[errant night]

right. thx

[tight wedge]

How much are you guys pulling in ST rn?

[limber lion]

In what timeframe?

[tight wedge]

Overall like a boss fight

Hard to give you a specific number but

[distant plinth]

1.7mill as sub

[limber lion]

lol

[tawny pawn]

stop lyin11111

[tight wedge]

Sus

[limber lion]

Yeah that's why I asked about the timeframe

[distant plinth]

Im not lying on heroic dungeon boss🤣

[limber lion]

Because some people do their opener and then throw that number out

[indigo meadow]

So what is it is the sim right or wrong? I see when you drop vicious venoms the sim uses ctw charges again. But in ST build with vicious it never uses.

[tight wedge]

I get what you mean

[distant plinth]

Exactly haha

[limber lion]

That's exactly it

With VV you don't.

[tight wedge]

Idk set a time frame and set dps

[rotund oak]

clean btw 👌

[tight wedge]

just curious to know what dmg looks like in an overall setting not in just burst

[distant plinth]

Lets say 5min dummy then

[sand trellis]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[tight wedge]

That works 5 min

[tawny pawn]

oh yeah @limber lion i am using vv

thats why i dont ctw

[limber lion]

Yeh

[remote vector]

What DPS do you guys reach during your ST opener?

[tawny pawn]

depends

clear

[limber lion]

Opener dps doesn't matter

[tawny pawn]

so many variables in that question

[tight wedge]

ye i dont care much for opener but in like a 5 min pure st dummy fight

[remote vector]

but it does tho doesnt it?

[tawny pawn]

alone? dummy? boss dungeon? sim?

[tight wedge]

how much you hitting

[remote vector]

Dummy

like 500k

Why would i look at overall, when my opener is bad in the first place

[tight wedge]

500k kinda low no? theyre hitting way higher probs

[tawny pawn]

500k is not low

if you are alone

no consumables

no party

[remote vector]

During the opener?

[tawny pawn]

not during opener.

[tight wedge]

I see what you mean now by variables I guess

[brittle jacinth]

i prob hit 850k-1mil~ in opener atm @ 578

[tawny pawn]

a full boss fight

[remote vector]

yeah

[tawny pawn]

@tight wedge do me a favor

[remote vector]

but i am talking about during the opener

[tawny pawn]

go to the raid boss dummy full health, kill it and print me the details

thats the best i can give you for metrics

[remote vector]

that would be great

[tawny pawn]

its not perfect

[remote vector]

i'll do the same

[tight wedge]

Not playing ass yet sadly was just curious on you guys's experience and how it feels

[tawny pawn]

i have my own spreedsheat which im not going to show you cause im bad and too afraid of judgement

[tight wedge]

All g

[tawny pawn]

but we are not performing too good

thats the tldr

we are in the middle-low bracket

[distant plinth]

Rogue meta whatchu mean?

[tight wedge]

Wild

[brittle jacinth]

is that at max gear or something? because im top dps in every dungeon i go into

[limber lion]

The overall for a long extended period of time matters more

[tawny pawn]

spot slickz

stop

[limber lion]

But yeah the opener is the easiest part to fix

[brittle jacinth]

its usually like this

[limber lion]

It just fluctuates a lot

[tawny pawn]

dungeon is not raid boss dps

[limber lion]

Sometimes you do giga dam because everything crits, sometimes you don't

[distant plinth]

How can you even say we are mid low bracket when you have nothing to compare it against?

[remote vector]

arcane.

[tawny pawn]

if that would count for something

its not real dps its just demise abuse

[remote vector]

Is that ST?

[distant plinth]

Its gonna get nerfed soo hard🤣 just relax

[tawny pawn]

no thats dungeon

[remote vector]

i mean, my aoe numbers are just fine

[tawny pawn]

yeah what we talking about here is raid boss performance

[remote vector]

But on a 2mins fight with just food with the dummy i get like 390k

[tawny pawn]

we are middle low bracket

[tight wedge]

I figure since I watch a lot of sin in aoe and it does super well but i've never seen a complete single target scenario

[distant plinth]

S tier bracket you mean

[brittle jacinth]

i dont even use an aoe spec lol. idk i feel good on dungeon bosses maybe raid will be different

[vocal minnow]

you should be top dps with every class and every spec in your average dungeon - thats how bad the competition in a queued dungeon is

[tawny pawn]

[tight wedge]

Yeah reg/heroic dung are not indicative at all for sure

[tawny pawn]

[crystal glen]

many specs will look shit in a heroic dungeon, because most of their damage windows are wasted when things die

[limber lion]

Alright you guys convinced me

I will buy the stupid game

[tight wedge]

Very true also

[remote vector]

I am still a bit perplexed by the fact that mastery is more important now. I don't get Darkest Night that often

[distant plinth]

Will you show us that eogue is S tier!?

[limber lion]

Yeah, frontloaded damage specs are the winners

[tawny pawn]

what you mean

[radiant raven]

Rogue is SSS tier imo.

[limber lion]

Nothing is important

[tawny pawn]

madge

[limber lion]

It's all the same

[slate crown]

I LOVE IT WHEN WORLD QUEST MOBS SPAWN OUTSIDE THE WQ AREA AND CAN STILL BE KILLED

I LOVE DOING QUEST OBJECTIVES THAT DON'T GIVE CREDIT

[remote vector]

i mean, maybe i'm just doing something wrong

[radiant raven]

SAME

[tight wedge]

prob

[distant plinth]

@tawny pawn is a pesimistic guy so dont listen rogue is SSS tier

[remote vector]

I guess i just need one person to sit down with me and look at what i'm doing

[limber lion]

Aight let's see the rotation

Make a clip of you doing the opener

[remote vector]

Can you hop onto voice muted or smth? Dont have a clipping tool

[tawny pawn]

[brittle jacinth]

idk if im even doing it right i just do it like im about to go on some ratchet hpal in pvp

stealth garrotex2 rupture shiv deathmark kb env mut env

throw an snd in there somewhere 😂

[radiant raven]

We can easily substitue a single letter so it's a conveient ranking imo

[tawny pawn]

Rogue in tww:

[radiant raven]

I wish we had armour that cool

So that's not Rogue in TWW.

[distant plinth]

[tawny pawn]

we only get boots 3 sizes our feet

english hard

[distant plinth]

huh you dont like my boots?

[radiant raven]

I like your hat

[distant plinth]

haha sank you

[vale quest]

oh nice I just found out you can put illusions on the mage tower daggers

[rotund oak]

glorious tyranny

[distant plinth]

yessir

[brittle jacinth]

love this polar mog, goes hard

[rotund oak]

💀

too flat for me

and wpns kinda whatever

[normal mist]

tell me you pvp without telling me you pvp

[brittle jacinth]

i like legion weaps but just went simpler recently w the katana daggers

[rotund oak]

ur mog would rock on icefrost/deathfrost timeslicer

and ur hair white

also the shoulders need to go

[brittle jacinth]

agree w u actually on all points lol

[rotund oak]

😉

ravenholdt tmog channel =>>> Mount Everest of Tmog Tech

u cant climb higher

[shy marten]

so um, nothing besides bosses in these hc dungeons are living the full KB duration

[rotund oak]

even bosses dont lol

[strange python]

Yea it’s just hc

It’ll feel better in m0’s

[shy marten]

will it be better when it comes next week

alright it just really hard to pick anything to kb

like the trash only has 10m hp and my kb will easily eat through that

[rotund oak]

just press dotn hold,its dmg u wotn do if u dont so

[strange python]

It’s hc trash it’s not gonna matter if you kb or not

Just press it on bosses and chill

[shy marten]

oki

[tough basalt]

Facts

[remote vector]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3vMvba8xqI there you go

[shy marten]

im not really blasting compared to frost or demo it seems 😦

[tawny pawn]

SRS questions for SWEATY gamers ONLY

when with DN and 6 CP's what you do? garrote with a lot of time still

[strange python]

You’re comparing sin rogue to classes with easy to access burst

[tawny pawn]

you just applied garrote

[strange python]

You get one rupture up and fucking syndragosa comes down like

What do you expect to do

You just gotta go to the next pack

[shy marten]

frost mage but

i see

[strange python]

Yea they get glacial into cleaved split ice

It’s fine

[timber basalt]

You collect your sudden demise dmg

[tawny pawn]

noooooooooo

[rotund oak]

frost mage doesnt rly do alot of aoe but most dmg comes from ae/blizzard/double orbs and lance

also splinterstorm

GS is always alot of dmg

its 1.5mil easily

[remote vector]

😦

[strange python]

Point being

Don’t worry about hc trash numbers

[rotund oak]

but the coldest snap combo with double comet storm does more

[strange python]

Mage is for losers anyways

[rotund oak]

u are very wrong

its the most powerful class in the game

period

always and forever

[royal lantern]

idk why people hype that up so much

[tawny pawn]

because they are wondering a possible exciting change

[royal lantern]

like, cool i gues? then people realise that a knockup on a 3min cd when cc doesnt interupt spell queues anymore is not that great, there will be 200000fights where stoneform breaks sfuff and then everyone is coping on dwarf again for their +7key

[slate crown]

bla bla yada yada dragon scales wings uwu et cetera et cetera

[tawny pawn]

i was just excited cause they kinda hot

scaled homies

[short sedge]

Do you think it'll count with our talents

[royal lantern]

its just insane how willing people are to pay 20bucks for a race change on a whim

[tawny pawn]

who said we are gonna pay for anything

[dapper cradle]

Yeah people having income is crazy

[slate crown]

you are

[tawny pawn]

im not

[slate crown]

How you get that 400k? Time is money, regardless if it's wow gold or $

[pliant remnant]

The point is that Blizzard can ask for that price in the first place, not that people go homeless spending 20 bucks

[dapper cradle]

Agree on that

[short sedge]

I don't think that was the point made

[tawny pawn]

"bro can you level my rogue for me?"

done

[pliant remnant]

Probably not actually

but it should have been

[tawny pawn]

it takes 2hours max of some discord chatting

[subtle tundra]

Idk Ive yet to race change and I have raided at almost every level possible

[short sedge]

does that mean you're paying $ rn pushing this weird logic

[tawny pawn]

wait are you guys not paying to be here?

[subtle tundra]

Troll rogue since character creation

[slate crown]

??????

[novel star]

me but panda

[short sedge]

Me but belf

[novel star]

well on eu it started as undead and quickly changed to panda but

close to panda from the start

[tawny pawn]

bro pandas animation for rogues must be funny

[novel star]

[novel star]

they’re actually insanely good

for female at least

nothing funny about it

just the coolest rogue animations in the game

envenom looks sick

[slate crown]

can agree with this female panda are actually quite good animations

[royal lantern]

its so funny how you have LFR heroes talk about racials, while actual top level players just say "eh, whatever"

[tawny pawn]

thank god im not top level

[tawny pawn]

not even the ambush animation?

[royal lantern]

ambush is the same for everyone?

wdym lol

[tawny pawn]

is it?

idk

[novel star]

that’s just like a standardized anim

i believe so yea

[fallow estuary]

Man.. crit seems really weak for deathstalker compared to fatebound.. i only have 3.6k crit and my sims are like "MORE HASTE AND MASTERY"

[royal lantern]

like, rogue has only 2 racial based animations

stealth and envenom/eviscerate

[novel star]

all the race unique stuff fem panda just looks so beautiful tho

[royal lantern]

everything else is standarized

[novel star]

any other stealth or envenom anim looks wrong

i guess f undead is like okay but it’s doing too much

[tawny pawn]

i always played belf, but i kinda like the NE more nowadays

[subtle tundra]

Yo don't tell anyone but I don't track my racial, it's 3min cd and many times I have wasted uses

[restive falcon]

which wep enchants do we get rn since the 2 on the guide r from raid

[deep sorrel]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[tawny pawn]

do you guys macro Shadowmeld/Stealth? question for the NE homies

[novel star]

whatever you want because it don’t matter

i have dragonflight enchants on my shit

[tawny pawn]

just get crit or mastery

[radiant raven]

applying poison animation (because it uses the races 'use' channel animation)

[novel star]

i was actually thinking about race changing recently just to feel something but i looked at every envenom animation in the wowhead dressing room

and they just can’t compete

female panda fucking owns

bis race

[radiant raven]

male panda /sleep second only to Vulpera

[novel star]

vulp sleep almost got me but i never use it

and their stealth looks lame

[radiant raven]

If vulp could be alliance, hooboy I'd be a tiny fox man

[novel star]

worgen almost got me too

[radiant raven]

male worgen suck so much, and they do comedic things to helmets

[novel star]

yeah

pandas cant wear helms either so i’m used to it

[radiant raven]

I really like the vulp camp racial too

[novel star]

but female panda parted hairstyle is actually unbelievably cute

soooooo

we win again

[radiant raven]

But alas, blizz are cowards and did not make them neutral (like goblin should be too)

[stone minnow]

Guys - I'm trying to find a great illusion for daggers. I've seen one glowing big purplish one but can't find the name, someone told me its from DF. Can anyone help*

[deep sorrel]

hey @slate crown, is there anyway to edit your wa to display sound cues at the refresh point for garrote?

[novel star]

i mean all bfas initial allied races were kinda dumb

[radiant raven]

No question

[deep sorrel]

prefer playing with sounds on some stuff

[radiant raven]

Lightforged and highmountain too

[novel star]

they didn’t really know what they were doing at that point

nightborne and void elf r good but

that’s like it

[radiant raven]

They should've been customization options imho. Velves are fine, nightborne should've been neutral

[novel star]

the others don’t make sense

[radiant raven]

Zandalari being their own thing is fine

[minor swift]

i might be confused, but if the sparks only create ilvl 584 - 597 why do we save them?

its gonna be considered p low later no?

[pure moth]

enchanted crests make them higher

[radiant raven]

Sparks go up to 606 and then much higher with enchanted crests (Heroic / Mythic ilevel, capping at 636)

[pure moth]

you need spark plus the enchanted to boost it

[radiant raven]

And you only get one half a week, so they are quite time limited.

[novel star]

void elf and nightborne giving one faction access to the other factions elf’s model/anims was good

that’s like the only allied race that makes sense

[radiant raven]

Strong agree, though

[novel star]

vulp are just furry goblins and mechagnomes are obvious

the rest are also obvious

[radiant raven]

Ye

[novel star]

entire system didn’t really make sense but

[radiant raven]

Goblins should've always been a neutral race. Arguably, most should be at this point 'cos factionalism is silly and so they're indiviudals anyway

[novel star]

i mean

rp people and pvp people and old people still pretend faction matters

[minor swift]

okee ty

[novel star]

maybe not pvp people. i’m not sure

but the other two do

[radiant raven]

Ye but stuff ebing factionless doesn't change that.

Roleplayers can just adapt and would anyway. I mean, Eredar in Stormwind etc.

[slate crown]

In Garrote's conditions, Glow 1 is used to indicate several things, but the primary function is to tell you you can cast garrote again to Upgrade your garrote (either because it's time to refresh, or because you have stealth and your current garrote isn't improved).

On the Condition Tab, any place it says Glow 1 Visibility: On, you can add an extra property to that condition for playing a sound. If you only want it for Pandemic refresh, I would only add it to condition 5, but you're free to play around with it and add it to the other Glow 1 places

[deep sorrel]

Thanks a lot! ur the best in the game :P

wa king

or queen idk :P

[slate crown]

all g

[tawny umbra]

hello guys, kinda new at assa any chance to track when we get darkest night buff for envenom

cant track it fully

[novel star]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[tawny umbra]

i checked them but didnt see fully

maybe missed some point

[novel star]

i use whispyrs and it shows dn

[tawny umbra]

last one or first one?

there is 2 from whispyrs

[novel star]

first

last is nameplates which are also set up well for tracking the mark itself

but the weakaura group has dn

[tawny umbra]

tyty

[fallow estuary]

any embellishment tweaks i missed or is ascension + writhing still going strong? i might not play anymore till wensday so i'll probably craft embellishments now to be raid rdy

[carmine perch]

do we currently know what the best horde race for assa rogue is?

[novel star]

the one you like the most

[hollow python]

Belf gets the 1% crit, but yeah, any really

[novel star]

orc sims best

but it’s so meaningless

do not ever under any circumstance race change for dps unless you’re in a top 10 rwf guild

[weak isle]

There is no point in min maxing races unless u play in the RWF

Be whoever u wanna be homie

U won't be either top or bottom dps from it

[novel star]

yea

racial damage truly doesn’t matter anymore

[shy marten]

i feel like nelf is just very versatile

all my nelf-able characters are nelf

[novel star]

race qol is another discussion

[white marten]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

You can freely use weathered crests to craft any 590's you'd like. Preferences currently are wrist/belt/rings.

The current "best" embellishment is Ascension on a dagger with a nerubian patch on wrist. This is very overtuned compared to other embellishments and nerfs/buffs are expected.
The current "safe" embellishment to craft is dawnthread on wrist/belt, as this will most likely be generically good.
Blizzard has been tuning embellishments near daily since the expansion has come out. Because of this, IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED TO CHASE BIS EMBELLISHMENTS OR USE SPARKS CURRENTLY
Towards the start of raid release recommendations will update everywhere.

[novel star]

but damage it doesn’t matter

[radiant raven]

The most important thing is looking good and being happy with how your character looks / moves / feels / wears hats.

[weak isle]

I mean v-elf has an extra shadowstep

[novel star]

you could (and many would) make the argument that goblin > orc for an “optimal race” despite worse sims because it fills a mobility gap we have

[shy marten]

yeah i never really think about the damage contribution of the race, more so what the racial ability provides

[weak isle]

N-elf has extra vanish-ish

[novel star]

so it DOESNT MATTER!!!!

[shy marten]

how the hell do rogues have mobility gap?

seems hella mobile to me

[novel star]

sin without a target to step to

[radiant raven]

actually, it's because they have the cartoon tip-toe stealth animation, which is the optimal way to sneak.

[fallen arch]

There’s always a target

[novel star]

goblins just have untargeted movement

[shy marten]

isn't sprint still really nice

[novel star]

yes

that’s why i said mobility gap

not mobility problem

[radiant raven]

Ye, their rocket boost is pretty good

[shy marten]

ah

[novel star]

we have a GAP in untargeted burst mobility

[radiant raven]

Also they can summon a bank anywhere

[novel star]

not an overall mobility issue

[shy marten]

oh i see that makes sense

[novel star]

yeh

[shy marten]

i love shadowstep it's such a cool mobility spell

like blink or fel rush seems very boring compared to shadowstep

[novel star]

it’s great but sprinting away and stepping back is (very slightly) limiting

so if ur trying to push the game to the limit

[shy marten]

well i played rsham before the talent tree change, dks and priests

so my expectation for mobility is really low

[fallen arch]

Step can also leave you in super awkward places

[novel star]

i personally play 15% closer to my sims because i’m a sexy fucking panda with smug eyes and a fat ass

so that’s objectively optimal for me

but everyone is different man

[shy marten]

what do you mean by this?

[novel star]

always puts you behind target

can be swirlies etc

[fallen arch]

Ye, and some targets you dont wannt really be behind

[novel star]

dragons

[shy marten]

i think the movespeed after stepping is really nice

[fallen arch]

The amount of times I killed myself with this ability

[novel star]

step and then running to correct position is enough for 99% of situations

[fallen arch]

Just ask any outlaw how they like killing themselves with Killing Spree

[novel star]

but if ur talking about race changing to some optimal shit

you probably play enough to see the 1% often

hence why orc vs goblin is arguably kinda sorta maybe almost an interesting discussion unlike those 2 vs anything else

[shy marten]

for me if i shadowstep myself into a swirly i feel like this is clearly a skill issue i should just look before i step

[novel star]

sometimes you need burst movement to get out of something ur already standing in but ur only option is also unsafe

tools cant only be looked at in the vacuum of playing perfectly

[shy marten]

could be a planning issue or some mistake i made a few seconds in the past

[novel star]

having a free option to back up a positioning mistake is a valuable tool though

you cant just ignore that mistakes will happen and being able to minimize their impact is good

[shy marten]

that's also true but i think of meld in that lens too, it's so good to just be able to meld midway through anything

i really like meld because of how versatile it is, there are so many weird situation where meld is the only thing that can save you

and weird situations happen a lot in m+ (which is what i mainly play)

[novel star]

ya

just depends what u value i guess and how frequently the situations come up

[shy marten]

i mostly pug so it seems to come up a lot 😂

[novel star]

positioning a little wrong can just happen whenever if u get weird overlaps or something

[sharp viper]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[sharp trellis]

This question probably should have been answer already but i am asking anyway , for m+ mainly do you recommend any early crafting ?

[tight condor]

Im guessing we want to proc darkest night during our cds mostly?

[limber lion]

Doesn't matter

[sharp viper]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tight condor]

Doesnt matter?

The guide doesnt really tell me anything about it

[normal mist]

If you don't proc it asap

you're just losing dmg

[novel star]

yea you always play for it

top prio is mark reapplication

[tight condor]

Gotcha

[novel star]

if ur at 6cp and envenom buff is dropping ur still gonna overcap and lose uptime get the mark back up

it’s the entire spec

if mark isn’t made high prio ur just playing fatebound without the coins

so like

nothing

[tired gull]

Out of curiosity, what kind of material will be in this?

[vagrant moss]

So it s worth using another mutilate at 6 cp wasting 1-2 cp but getting the mark back up?

[novel star]

yes or else you lose half your hero tree

which is worse than the lost combo points

[vagrant moss]

Is it better to use mutilate or a garrote at 6cp?

[novel star]

mutilate unless garrote is in pandemic im p sure

[vagrant moss]

If garrote is in pandemic window that makes sense but if it isn’t

Ok cool

[novel star]

either option loses total damage so it makes sense in my brain that you would just want to get more vv value

[vagrant moss]

Vv?

[novel star]

vicious venoms

[past forum]

Curious to see all the different builds we’ll play in raid

[stoic rain]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[mild trail]

Hey! I just wanted to make sure i was understanding some talent interactions correctly. I read the !Pooling thing and recognize we want to stay below 50% energy when playing DS, and we spam during cooldowns and pool when they're down. Do I spam during Kingsbane because my mutilate counts as "nature damage" or 70% of it does? or is it not explicitly "poison" damage. Just unsure if Kingsbane counts as a cooldown window when following the spam during cd's and pool during downtime advice. Sorry for the wall of text

[normal mist]

You can only spam mutilate to get CPS

KB is a CD window

[royal lantern]

hey hey hey hey

you have deathstalker ib or caustic, and Fatebound ib or caustic

tww doubled our avaible builds

[novel star]

deathstalker cringe and lame tho

[dusty zenith]

Mostly caustic since most boss fights have adds

[mild trail]

Heard brother. Thanks for the prompt response and the clarification on mutilate!

[normal mist]

But a better explanation is:

• You have 2 CD windows, DM + vanish + KB and just KB. Vanish+DM happens every 2 minutes, KB happens every minute. While playing Deathstalker, you'll want to keep your energy below 150 to maximize your Envenoms and generaly lots of finishers. For CD's you usually have Tea for both occasions altough During DM you don't really need tea

[boreal pond]

Are we staying below the 150 to ensure that we don’t get extra energy loss from the one bleed talent?

Then during cd windows we go back up so they do more damage

[spice spire]

[royal lantern]

[normal mist]

we don't use it on DS ST

[royal lantern]

you dont use poopyblades on deathstalker

[haughty lantern]

question about dps rotation (or just rotation in general)

should i be like constantly starving for energy or am i doing something wrong

[mild trail]

Ahh okay. I didn't consider the logic behind why we're staying around 150. This makes a lot more sense in terms of visualizing our windows and how we enhance our 1 minute timings. Thanks a bunch

[royal lantern]

"be under 150 energy" translates into "use your abilitys when you are above 150 energy, when you are bellow go more into maintenance mode for envneom so you dont run dry"

[royal lantern]

yes, thats normal and a part of assa

[haughty lantern]

ok just making sure i'm doing it correctly

like, stuff is dying, my dps is stonks

but if i go for too long in a fight i eventually run dry on energy

[normal mist]

yes thats normal

unless its M+

the more targets availabe, the more energy you can get

[haughty lantern]

yup, at least in heroics i never ran out

IC baby

[proven current]

do we know which spec is strongest going into season 1?

[normal mist]

Nop

[lapis depot]

Hey the combo points from er are still buggy right? So we always build up to max combo points for our hero talents right?

[normal mist]

Yes

[lapis depot]

So the er combo points are only used for rupture?

[normal mist]

and envenom

[boreal pond]

Ah okay that makes more sense. Maintain your energy and envenom buff outside CD phase, and then during Kingsbane windows we should be trying to get as many envenom out as we can?

[royal lantern]

yes

cd windows = spam

[haughty lantern]

like 95% of the time i still have enough energy to continue my rotation, but i'm always starving at sub50 energy

[royal lantern]

outside of cd windows = maintain envenom (aka build cp->wait until envenom is at ~1sec before you use a new envenom and repeat)

when you go above 150 energy as deathstalker, spam again until you are bellow it cus its benefical

and the rule is always generate-> wait

not wait-> generate

[distant plover]

the Plater stays green with the plater profile after i switch targets/mutilate someone else during aoe, is that normal?

[boreal pond]

I come from Cata assassination so I’m okay on the fundamentals of the envenom buff, just the other stuff surrounding it is brand new to me. Since ER don’t interact with death stalker marks, is there even a point to using it right now?

[slate crown]

Did that something else have rupture on it?

Like did you actually apply caustic to the new target?

[deep sorrel]

is 85% env uptime good?

on a 5 min fight

[royal lantern]

its the normal uptime ye

[slate crown]

!dn

[prisma monolith]

Do I need to always be in stealth to apply a Deathstalker Mark?

• Only the initial application. Darkest Night reapplies and will be the majority of your applications
  Echoing Reprimand....
• Yes, Echoing Reprimand doesn't interact with the Mark / Darkest Night, this is one of the biggest bugs still plaguing Deathstalker as a whole
• Until it is fixed, you would want to run 2/2 Lethality and still put 1 point into Echoing Reprimand
  But the 3rd cp or something?
• Correct, there has been a newly found... bug? interaction? With the Mark and Echoing Reprimand. It requires you to have your 3rd combo point be animacharged, the Mark be applied from Darkest Night, and then consuming the animacharge with Envenom. Should all those conditions be met, it will consume a stack of the Mark as intended.
  Does Blizzard know?
• There is no way they don't know. This has been mass reported, screamed from the rooftops, highlighted in every wowhead article, youtube video, forum post and stream since Deathstalker was revealed in alpha. The only thing we can do is keep reporting the bug through the in-game report, making noise on forums, and waiting.

[distant plover]

uh, yeah

sorry might just be dumb rn

[royal lantern]

like, you will be around 80-90% most of the time

sometimes a bit lower, sometimes a bit higher

[deep sorrel]

yeah 4.5 min on dummy shows 99.42 garrote, 98.7 on rupt and 84.43 env

[slate crown]

See the "Until it's fixed..." above. #assassination message

[distant plover]

fingers crossed

[hearty pulsar]

With this build where would i macro my "Cold Blood"

[normal mist]

no where

[deep sorrel]

env i believe

[haughty lantern]

did blizz address the DN whatever bug that has been happening?

[deep sorrel]

oh nvm

[normal mist]

you dont want to play DS with CB man

[slate crown]

#assassination message See the last point

[haughty lantern]

i meant address it in the recent patch notes

like obv they know it's a problem

[distant plover]

i mean it shouldnt happen anyway if i play well in aoe

tbf

[slate crown]

Nope

[lapis depot]

Do we always build to 7 cp or do we use 5 cp until every mark was used?

[lapis lantern]

hey guys are there any sim tables for all classes to see how they compete atm?

[royal lantern]

you always do 5+

unless you play deathstalker and have the capstone ready

[distant plover]

why is haste simming so high i hate it

[royal lantern]

then you go 7CP for it

[royal lantern]

because for assa all stats are good

[lapis depot]

Yeah thats what i mean

[distant plover]

true

[royal lantern]

well desinged spec in that regard

not having a "dead" stats is great

just EQ whatever has a higher ilvl and be happy

[deep sorrel]

vers kinda blows

[lapis depot]

So its ok to use envenom at 5 cp, if the capstone is active we build to 7 right?

[deep sorrel]

atleast through sim

[royal lantern]

not really

[normal kindle]

!ui

[deep sorrel]

sim the 584 tinderbox

sims like 10k lower than a haste mastery neck from edna at 580

and thats crit/vers

[royal lantern]

like, its SLIGHTLY "worse" then other stats and goes up again when you get the others up

[deep sorrel]

mb just my char though

[royal lantern]

i literally had vers enchants on my rings and vers gems in DF S3/S4 cus it simmed highest

[sharp trellis]

Bro when is the echoing fix ? !

[deep sorrel]

ye char specific then ig?

[slate crown]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's 11.0 Afenar Edit
Luxthos's 11.0 Group
LE's 11.0 Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's 11.0 Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's 11.0 Plater

[lapis depot]

Last question, the envenom buff uptime only matters in St right?

[iron valve]

probably never, no mention of it. I would assume it's working as intended even though it's counter-intuitive

[feral mason]

They barely make mention of any incoming bug fixes so cant really conclude anything

subt bugs were definitely not intended yet we didnt hear anything about that for months bar the realz “subt keeps breaking” message

[boreal pond]

last question for a hot sec, is there any reason to be tracking your poisons on the enemy, or you roto wont change at all regardless of # of stcaks

[deep sorrel]

does envenom deal less dmg on dummies or smth?

[feral mason]

nah amp poison doesnt change much

would just track garrote/rupture/ct/mark exclusively

[deep sorrel]

sim buffless shows 46 casts of envenom @45mil dps, 5 mins on a dummy showed 43 @32ml dps

[feral mason]

And trinket debuffs if those ever come into existence

[deep sorrel]

any ideas ;d?

[feral mason]

Dummies are bugged to shit, probably another byproduct

[keen rover]

Fatebound for M+?

[feral mason]

Could be unlucky, would need a few more test iterations for that

spatter is also doing double the damage that it should on them

[deep sorrel]

unlucky can't be 13mil damage

too big of a difference

would have had to had the worlds highest recorded envenom crits to make up 13mil in 3 casts of envenom

[feral mason]

Theres a reason most research is done multiple times

The most bullshit odds could occur

[deep sorrel]

you're right but this is like shooting a rocket to the moon and ending on venus

[feral mason]

Just look at the max crits / hits of the sims and compare i guess