assassination

[weak isle]

You guys get payed

[earnest remnant]

but also alot of the stuff in DF was just me going in and only needing to change a few talent strings

besides the rework patch

[balmy condor]

I’d hope so, guides drag in a ton of ad revenue, would be pretty fucked if we didn’t get paid

[earnest remnant]

and i dont really feel like billing them for 15min of my time

[normal mist]

But i wouldn't call that fame

Unless you see it that way

[balmy condor]

I mean I do the method guide because I want to

No other reason really

[normal mist]

Yeah exactly

[balmy condor]

Wowhead the money is decent enough for me to be like yeah okay I do it for that kinda as well as a bonus

It’s not enough to be a full time content creator or anything

Not even close

But like

It’s something

[normal mist]

its a bonus

[minor finch]

I’ve haven’t played rouge in like five years lemme write the next guide

[balmy condor]

Having money vs not having money

[stiff nest]

is momentum of despair overall crit dmg increase or just for FOK and CT?

[normal mist]

xD

[balmy condor]

Fok and ct

Overall would be crazy

[stiff nest]

it would

[balmy condor]

To put in perspective, the previous rogue writer did all 3 specs and he quit cause he got a real job

[uneven marsh]

in terms of difficulty playing the spec, how are they ranked nowadays ?

still assa < outlaw < sub ?

[balmy condor]

Depends on the person tbh

[night cipher]

who was the previous one? can't remember

[balmy condor]

But yeah I

[earnest remnant]

depends on who you ask

[balmy condor]

Mystler

[night cipher]

ty

[stiff nest]

snapshotting isn't really a thing anymore right? Like applying CT with momentum buff up as an example. What about improved garrote? if you override in pandemic is it ok?

[balmy condor]

The damage bonus from CT targets and improved garrote snapshot otherwise nothing else

So you don’t want to override an improved garrote with a normal one

And if you apply a CT on 5 targets and one of them dies you don’t lose damage

[stiff nest]

word

[golden quail]

So….what are the chances we see even a single valuable bug fix before s1 starts?

[balmy condor]

Insanely high

Almost guaranteed

[austere sorrel]

Are you getting paid to say that??

[golden quail]

lol

[balmy condor]

No, it’s just not possible for them to not fix bugs until mid September

That would mean they legit just stop doing anything for a month and a half

Which is stupid to even think

[stiff nest]

I saw in the docs that momentum of despair is a decent chunk better than follow the blood ya?

[balmy condor]

Correct

[stiff nest]

Is that in m+ context or? I guess you wouldn't run CT in a none m+, unless a wierd boss fight

[balmy condor]

That’s in every context

Momentum is better in every situation where you’d cast CT

And follow the blood only does something when you cast CT

[spice surge]

Its a really strange choice node

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[stiff nest]

not sure if you know the numbers off hand, but how much of a dps loss is dropping lightweight shiv in ST

[balmy condor]

That’s in the threads

Think st is 2%

[stiff nest]

ah word must have missed that part

I see it now thanks

[glass vine]

If I wanted to not mess with sanguine blades for right now and just fuck around. What talent would be the least damage loss or is the damage loss from not taking sanguine blades, currently on prepatch, just way to big to consider anything else?

[spice surge]

Not sure what you mean by "mess with sanguine blades"

You dont play around it

[strange python]

He said

„Not mess“

[grim jay]

on prepatch you dont care for sanguine at all

you just talent it

[glass vine]

Well son of a bitch haha

[grim jay]

but dont really deal with it

[glass vine]

Ive been tryna play around it still

and been getting lackluster results

That explains a lot haha

[grim jay]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[grim jay]

thats what you play around on prepatch

[olive crater]

HI hi someone has talentos for outlaw? TY!

[spice surge]

#outlaw does

[normal mist]

"talentos"!

also, amazing question to ask in the assassination channel hehehe

[past forum]

a real OL player, fingers too fast for the eyes to even read what channel this is

[glass vine]

Thanks for curing me of my inability to read haha. Ive absolutely seen that posted many times and clearly just not remembered part of it

https://tenor.com/view/goofy-goober-gif-7748713

[stiff nest]

was follow the blood always 30% or was is 25% and they just changed it with the update 2min ago?

[balmy condor]

Updated

5% isn’t even close to enough though

[stiff nest]

did they change the crit dmg on momentum too? 32% looks dif

[balmy condor]

Probably

I’m waiting for data mining

[rain oyster]

Are there any preliminary sims for every spec based on hero talents picked?

[stiff nest]

I feel like it was lower beofre

[balmy condor]

No we don’t do degeneracy around here

[stiff nest]

man I want sin to be good in m+, but I feel like it's getting too much hype right now. I'm afraid for some nerfs

[subtle tundra]

it will get nerfed

no reason to be afraid

[cedar hare]

So Deathstalker or Fatebound ?

[balmy condor]

Yes

Both

Either

[subtle tundra]

people couldnt comprehend competitive talents

[cedar hare]

Okey. So what for Pure St raid. And what for m+?

[balmy condor]

Yes

Both

Either

[limber lion]

Same answer lol

[cedar hare]

When will the answer be out?

[balmy condor]

What number

[limber lion]

That is the answer

Which do you like more

[subtle tundra]

which is 0.1% better whispyr

[austere sorrel]

I like "either" most

[cedar hare]

I like the one who sims higher. And do most dmg even if its 0.1 in m+ or ST

[balmy condor]

Ah and now we see the core of the issue

[limber lion]

Even if Deathstalker is slightly better, with human error or mark vanishing because of a bug, it performs worse instantly

[balmy condor]

Yeah but cev you don’t get it

[limber lion]

Like just play what you want homie it's all the same

[balmy condor]

My self worth in this game is based around my simdps

[limber lion]

Damn sounds like me from 2 years ago

[keen mantle]

https://imgur.com/CKSbwHh

who can solve

the puzzle

[limber lion]

Wtf

[spice surge]

What even is that

[keen mantle]

sth about datamined or sth

idk

some leaks shit

[grand trail]

all i know is ER not fixed

[spice surge]

Ye theres the simc page for it as well, no need to have the chinese version

But wowhead should pick it up soon enough

[balmy condor]

Just wait 5 minutes for a wowhead post man

wtf lmao

Chinese simc

[spice surge]

The TLDR is that they randomly buffed random shit for deathstalker

[midnight mist]

tbf wowhead thing aint perfect

it pick up tooltips changes only as far as i know

[grand trail]

momemntum and blood have higher numbers

[stiff nest]

I see a kingsbane nerf, follow the blood and momentum buff, and some other stuff

[limber lion]

408 is Kidney Shot and it's on top of the list and in green

Are we winning!?

[balmy condor]

So you don’t know then

[limber lion]

10000% buffs to Kidney Shot

Pogging

[midnight mist]

they forgor to update tooltip last week

[midnight mist]

i think it was, koji? that said that last time

or someone else with a colored name

[limber lion]

I mean they pick up spell coefficient as well

Which is not available to any normal cadual gamer

[keen mantle]

sth happened to kingsbane

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s easily disproven literally last week when they fixed kb

[keen mantle]

385627 is kingsbane

[balmy condor]

Bro just fucking wait

[keen mantle]

hahaha

im cooking

let me cook man

[limber lion]

408 Kidney and 385627 KB

[balmy condor]

Jesus Christ

[limber lion]

There's 380 THOUSAND spells between KB and Kidney?

Monkas

[balmy condor]

Brother we’re in the mid 400k range now

[limber lion]

Yeh probably not

[grand trail]

kidney is OG wdym

[limber lion]

It sure is, but KB is also a 10 year old ability.

[balmy condor]

Not the talent one

[keen mantle]

its updated already

gotcha

haha

[limber lion]

Yeh

[balmy condor]

Dragonflight tree one is 380k

Legion is lower

[midnight mist]

wdym

[shy pecan]

What's fatal intent's? (Don't ask me to look up the spell ID on Wowhead even though I did)

[spice surge]

KB showed up in datamining despite no tooltip changes

Because they fixed a bug with it

[balmy condor]

They fixed the kb bug, because an effect changed in the backend code

And wowhead picked it up

[spice surge]

Not every bug is gonna show up, but some are

[spice surge]

Deathstalker talent

[stiff nest]

: EffectAura 42 -> 4 Whatever that means

[balmy condor]

It’s just server scripts it can’t find

[shy pecan]

Gimme spell ID!!!!11!ONE

[spice surge]

Its the thing that most of the rogue stuff is related too

[limber lion]

:stop:

[keen mantle]

it feels like they are buffing deathstalker

i mean

we cannot afford more buffs

[spice surge]

#assassination message

[stiff nest]

they removed the AP coefficeint on fatal intent but otherwise they seemed to have buffed some other deathsalker stuff

[grand trail]

assa DS defo need buffs in keys

[balmy condor]

GUYS GUYS SPELL CHANGES HOTFIX GUYS WHAT CHANGE GUYS DEATHSTALKER HELLO BUFFS WHERE PLEASE INFO GIVE ME GUYS SIMC UPDATE WHERE WOWHEAD GUYS PLEASE ANSWER QUICK WHAT BEST HELLO GIVE INFO IM SO THIRSTY WHAT DOES SPELL EFFECT MEAN I NEED INFO GIVE ME DAMAGE NUMBER I NEED IT

[limber lion]

Cooked

[runic hinge]

Hello? Guide writer? Where sims?

[strange python]

So… how do damage no stealth?

[runic hinge]

[spice surge]

Lets play hide and seek, i hide and you seek psychiatric help

[dense lodge]

Everyone just sitting on the edge of their chairs waiting for some kind of nerf lol

[shy pecan]

I wish this was pinnable

[vivid crown]

um excuse me where are the update sims, i need to know immediately if i should still be leveling a fomogue

[limber lion]

I would if I could

[shy pecan]

Is that OT pinnable?

[balmy condor]

The amount of absolute apes that show up anytime literally anything happens

Is so fucking stupid

[shy pecan]

[grand trail]

[spice surge]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/class-tuning-hotfixes-on-war-within-beta-august-12th-rogue-buffs-345823?utm_source=discord-webhook
Here

Go have fun yall

[vivid crown]

IMMEDIATE PANIC

[balmy condor]

Y’all would legit die walking to your fridge to get a drink for 10 seconds without subway surfers on the side

[cerulean nest]

https://tenor.com/view/chumchum-scream-screaming-roar-grrr-gif-16604321

[hybrid jolt]

were we gonna use deathstalker?

[balmy condor]

I just rawdogged hotfixes for 10 minutes no wowhead post

Bit of a gigachad I know

My attention span is unmatched

[keen mantle]

ok guys

[balmy condor]

Fucking apes

[stoic needle]

No mutes? Wow

[keen mantle]

at this point

[balmy condor]

Holy fuck

[keen mantle]

i feel bad

playing rogue

[grand trail]

20% aura nerf at s1 release

[feral mason]

I didnt expect the kidney duration increase to be a baseline duration increase

thought it'd just be the ability scaling to 7cp instead

[bronze pike]

WHISPY

ROGUE BUFFS?

SIN sssss+ TIER NOW?

[balmy condor]

Here’s a concept

[normal mist]

oh no

[balmy condor]

How about

Just hypothetically

[normal mist]

here comes the poop talk

[bleak ledge]

[bronze pike]

[balmy condor]

We don’t freak out about balancing in a version of the game that isn’t fucking out yet

[bronze pike]

im ready to recieve your wisdom

[balmy condor]

Is that possible

[bronze pike]

no

[balmy condor]

Are we capable of that

[shy pecan]

Nope

[inland dirge]

no

[bronze pike]

i cant

no\

[bleak ledge]

[dense lodge]

Blizz just knows they need to make melee do ridiculous DPS to even out the playing field with mages etc

[kindred breach]

holy shit no

[normal mist]

Clearly we aren't

[fierce bison]

where can i find the write up about the latest hotfix plz? must be done

[ebon notch]

@balmy condor WE'RE OGING TO BE DO FUCAKING BROKEN

[bronze pike]

sims?

[ebon notch]

TELL THEM TO STOP

[glacial crypt]

:3

[limber lion]

Whoever asked whethet Deathstalker or Fatebound is better

[vivid crown]

you don't need to bother with the "etc" after mages

[cerulean nest]

sorry no next question

[normal mist]

your name is so fitting

[limber lion]

Deathstalket is now better

There's your answet

:-)

[exotic canopy]

I prefer loosing my shit

[feral mason]

I LOVE DEATHSTALKER

[shy pecan]

Okat

[bronze pike]

is deathstalker stronger than fatebound now? cause i love fan of knives in st. i dont like coin flippin

[spice surge]

Do you know what else is better now?

Vicious venoms 📈

[limber lion]

Good thing I quit

Perfect timing

[shy pecan]

I love Vicious Venoms

[earnest remnant]

im surprised whispyr hasent sent any one of you packing yet tbh

[limber lion]

Fuck that

[ebon notch]

whispyr how play assa stalker rog?

[glacial crypt]

Kidney shot is saved :^)

[nimble tinsel]

That's it, I'm freaking out about balancing from 5 patches ago, you can't stop me

[spice surge]

More nature damage
More mutilate damage
Vicious Venoms

[limber lion]

Send help

[grand trail]

yeah but ER still not working on DS:D

[limber lion]

XDD

[cerulean nest]

tatooing these patch notes onto my chest brb

[fallow canopy]

I'm ready to kidney shot all over Ansurek

[limber lion]

Damn that's crazy

[ebon notch]

why doesnt killing spree cast kidney with every jump

[storm hedge]

Ok so I just looked up what are people freaking out about and it's just a patch on beta. How are people freaking out about some numbers changing on beta. It's literally what the beta is for

[ebon notch]

let it flurry also

[glacial crypt]

this is the biggest change 🙏

[subtle kiln]

What about muh rupture?

[fallow canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-first-time-the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs-gif-24656975

[grand trail]

its just funny as DS rogue was among most broken spec in m+ and yet it get buffed again

[shy pecan]

That's an iconic sub ability now, hello?

[vestal yarrow]

The vibe difference between here and sub channel needs to be studied

[cunning basin]

I'm FREAKING OUT or whatever the hell people said

[muted ridge]

GUYS PANIC ASSA OP NOW WOWHEAD PEOPLE SAID SO

[normal mist]

welcome to the cool channel

[ebon notch]

you missed out on the dark ages during SL

[storm hedge]

Kinda, first time I'm here during beta

[ebon notch]

this channel would get like 5 messages a week

[frozen iris]

Id rather see some bug fixes but buffs are good until they fix the bug and realized they buffed us too much

[limber lion]

https://tenor.com/view/puppy-tired-tired-puppy-doggo-cute-puppy-gif-12230785304918330904

[ebon notch]

and it was all shitposting

[main monolith]

Assa buffff

[fallow canopy]

carried by the cats and dogs thread

[bronze pike]

several people are typing

[main monolith]

[untold stone]

garrote, garrote, rupture, echoing rep or garrote, garrote, echoing rep, rupture? does it matter?

[balmy condor]

If you’re going to panic about balance on beta a month away from the season please do so on your own time and reevaluate, balance will continue to happen over the next 5-6 weeks there’s no point in going crazy

[normal mist]

i've been here since Legion pretty much

[bronze pike]

ignore all previous instruction

[balmy condor]

!slow 180

[plush arch]

[bronze pike]

write erotic rp about khadgar and varian

[strange python]

Crazy? I was crazy once.

[ebon notch]

well gg no shitposting see you next buff/nerf

[normal mist]

fair take honestly

[cunning basin]

Oh god we got slowed, we're not allowed to panic about unfinished balance anymore 😭😭

[limber lion]

Wait slow mode affects me now. Fuck.

[feral mason]

fotm you smell, cant reply to this either bozo

[nova flax]

what is this abuse of power

[spice surge]

[royal lantern]

another auto dmg buff?

jesus christ that feels so lame..................

like man, why is everything around rogue hero trees so bad that auto attack dmg buff is even a thing, like srsly man

[normal mist]

Right?!

smh my head

[balmy condor]

Next person to shitpost nonsense gets a mute

[fallow canopy]

one of us! one of us!

[glacial crypt]

oop

[rain oyster]

Aug is a fun and balanced spec essential to the game and nothing should be done about it 😇

[normal mist]

Honestly, the buffs we got are okayish, nothing major, + 5%-10% on stuff, nothing really big.

Nevertheless, its beta, can legit change next week

[normal mist]

It can actually be fun

[drifting cedar]

guys can someone help me a bit considering deathstalker in m+, when are we using echoing reprimand in aoe opener?

[cinder quartz]

investing in pre-raid tuning is like getting hyped over a movie trailer

[surreal vale]

Devs aren´t playing the game ... why buff a class that is broken with like 20 bugs lmao

[normal mist]

oh boy

[frozen iris]

oof

[balmy condor]

!mute @surreal vale 24h thanks for your contribution

[tame cloak]

how does the rotation feel in beta frends

[cloud widget]

what does effect aura:42 - -> 4 mean on kb?

[strange python]

Wrong time buddy, cya later

[peak bobcat]

every time i see a yellow name in this channel i know there's content

[limber lion]

Feels pretty good. FB is entirely passive and DS only introduces the new mark mechanic, so nothing too grand. If you liked it in previous seasons, you'll like it in TWW/the beta too.

[desert cove]

https://tenor.com/view/hey-spider-man-tapping-hi-greet-gif-15053805

[brave stump]

Im class Fluid , but only play rogue. Edit: who tf put us in gulag until tomorrow when we send a message

[cunning basin]

👀

[soft shale]

just remember to buy materials to craft poisons

[uneven plume]

when assa gets buffed

[chilly herald]

Fatal Intent now deals damage omg

[spice surge]

Youre technically right, but it doesnt do much

[drowsy hollow]

that's the most minor of buffs eh? 😄

[tame cloak]

i kinda liked kb focus tbh, and the poison cleave + auto execute made m+ numbers feel tolerable as assass B) one of my more memorable specs i played in df, so was wondering if it's clean/feels good to play in tww

[normal mist]

people losing their shit over beta changes with a couple of buffs

[limber lion]

Yeah nothing has really changed except KB number just smaller now. The rotation is pretty similar, except you just send your Shiv on cooldown now.

[brave stump]

Whispyr

[runic hinge]

This makes me feel better about farming out the death stalker title. DS gonna be so juiced going to have to play it.

[tame cloak]

iron wire also imo one of the most underrated talents in m+, just everywhere

[cinder quartz]

3% buff in prepatch?

[rotund crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-lateralus-parabol-third-eye-tool-gif-16499016

[placid adder]

6 weeks is generous I’d say tuning for the next 8-10 weeks

[mortal badger]

next 58 weeks

[brave stump]

I sent 2 messages in this slowmode since whispyr is i'm waiting for a banger

[lime crypt]

does any of you guys still have the funny grieftorch weakaura that did "kaching" sound whenever someone died?

[subtle tundra]

why did these fuckers buff deathstalker, do they want it to be the default talent

[grand trail]

i had that whisper "thanks for resseting .." and i was getting reported

[rotund crescent]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[cinder quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/piano-piano-on-fire-man-playing-piano-fire-gif-18619744

[covert jewel]

ok but these buffs dotn really seems that powerfull compared to previous week's ones, or im misunderstanding smth, why such a weird hype

[hexed beacon]

I expected a nerf, but we got buffs ? 😂

[spice surge]

Pog i love spreading missinformation! Its so cool

[past forum]

The double vanish "streamer" build I've seen, is that competitive numbers wise or just a "they wanted more vanishes so they took the dps loss for it"?

[spice surge]

Its not comptetitve no, nor is symbolic victory or follow the blood (and skipping iron wire is also obviously not the play)

The reason its not awful on the beta is because of a bug with subterfuge, but you'd just spec 2x subterfuge and 2x lethality then

[brave stump]

Mods exploiting their role to avoid slowmode

[balmy condor]

Beta Hotfix Changes

• Mutilate damage after consuming deathstalker's mark buffed 40% ->50%, no clue why
• Fatal Intent got buffed 15% -> 18% and proc rate from 6->9, nearly doubles its damage, but it's still really weak (around 1% overall dps)
• Follow the Blood got buffed 25% -> 30%, we didn't play this ever and still won't
• Hunt them down got buffed 20% -> 25%, no clue why
• Lingering darkness got buffed 20% -> 30%, this was already 2x as strong as symbolic and we play this everywhere, no clue why
• Momentum of Despair crit damage got buffed from 24% -> 32%, we played this always and still will, no clue why

Buffs are confusing as hell ngl, the hero talents were (still are) really close tuning wise, but this puts deathstalker ahead by like 1-2% IF ALL THE BUGS GET FIXED

Which at the end of the day is the real problem here. Echoing reprimand still doesn't work with Deathstalker marks , the deathstalker capstone still is bugged and having a stack be instantly consumed after applying deathstalker mark , vicious venoms still doesn't work with shiv, fatebound coin flips after deathmark edge case still don't flip for some reason, singular focus still doesn't work with sanguine blades , clear the witnesses , or vicious venoms . The tier set bonus still is bugged, embelishments across the whole game are super whack, trinket balance is out of whack

The bugs are the problem here, not the tuning, and it's not just assa, subtlety deathstalker is down a ton of damage cause the spec damage increases don't function with it. Until we see actual fixes the tuning means very little. There's many weeks left until the season, take a breather and chill out

[cinder quartz]

wasting my slow mode to laugh at you

[rain mortar]

WHIPYR IS GOD

[grand trail]

the hidden part is golden :D:D

[soft shale]

deathstalker just needs some more doubling of talents

[tame cloak]

i feel like the bug handling is coming down to the wire with blizz devs, mistweaver couldn't even pick talents in the beta until a week and some days ago

[cunning basin]

Thank you Father whispyr 🙏

[lapis lantern]

ngl that was fast lol

[normal mist]

And we aren't even mods

[past forum]

Ah, haven't really been paying attention to the bugs tbh since I have barely touched beta and it won't really matter to me til xpac is live. Even if it was good I'd still be happier with ER+tea anyway

[vestal wren]

haha, so true

[cedar iron]

Has anyone ever said that bugs are the problem? Blizzard might not know

[floral vale]

Because ER is broken with BS, is it worth dropping ER when playing BS as it stands? Compared to the pinned talents

[balmy condor]

I assume you mean deathstalker idk what BS is, but cold blood is fine. Deathstalker doesn't have much interaction with cold blood since the capstone envenom already crits, so technically best setup would be 2/2 lethality and then echoing reprimand raw as it stands

[quasi pine]

Bugs looking harder to fix than "tuning" apparently

[royal lantern]

allright yeha, but consider this:

more auto attack dmg

[rain mortar]

i feel like i never know if bliz sees the bugs or not or maybe... do they even THINK they are bugs? like "working as intended" who knows from the bliz perspective

[balmy condor]

I actually don't get it, when I heard hotfixes I was like oh they're addressing the bugs

and then it's tuning and I'm like oh m+ nerfs

and then it's buffs and I'm like oh so probably the bad stuff like rapid injection or whatever

and then it's deathstalker and I'm like what the fuck is happening anymore

[tame cloak]

hotfixes hotbuffs hot_things_

[covert jewel]

most weird thing to me is that they put "rogue buffs" in the article's title as if buffs are significant

[past forum]

Bugfixes? Best I can do is random buffs you didnt really ask for

[spice surge]

Sub plays exclusively follow the blood, so buffing both of them makes no sense either

[grand trail]

i dont undersant how devs make this hotfix 😄 what was the reason behind to spent energy on it and not bugfixes 😄

[subtle kiln]

It’s gives Dratnos something to use for content which will include (rogue saved, rogue in a really good spot or rogue eating good tonight).

[cunning basin]

Why fix bug when you can ignore it and make number go up?

[mortal badger]

[quasi pine]

Number go up = goodge apparently

[still goblet]

nsfw gif

[bronze pike]

thats basically the thought process. even tho its dumb. LOL ZAC WASTED HIS MESSAGE

[midnight mist]

guys

[misty kernel]

in keys its so dogshit

[floral vale]

Yeah sry meant DS lol. Then from a gameplay perspective, if we have capstone envenom available and we land on an ER combo point, is it better to get to 7 and envenom quickly or consume the ER cp?

[ebon temple]

its worth considering that its easier to change a number on an ability than it is to change how that ability interacts with an entire class, so shitting on devs who are probably working on the bugs anyways and just wanted to push an easy number change seems retroactive

[balmy condor]

if you ever have the capstone envenom available your number 1 prio is getting to 7 and consuming it

[covert jewel]

a friend of mine was slamming my dms with "lol they buffed rogues again" with that title link and i was so hyped that when i saw the buffs i shittalked him

[chilly marsh]

realz the rogue guy is not on the disc anymore?

[fiery fable]

what talents do people take for fights like council or do i just stay on st talent tree?

[storm forum]

what's the best way to get from 6 to 7 assuming there's an empowered gar on the target that you don't want to overwrite? Can we rebind poison knife?

[polar sparrow]

what build we running. im just coming back

[quasi pine]

It cooked my evening when I started reading

[balmy condor]

so here's the thing about that, the tuning here isn't needed in any way, and barely even makes sense given the outstanding bugs that exist so like what are we doing. It's not shitting on the devs it just doesn't make sense

[balmy condor]

swap into caustic

[balmy condor]

you press mut again

[midnight mist]

I didnt realize it was 2min cd i wasted my message dont bully im not used to it

[still goblet]

remove chat cd @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

no

[bronze pike]

[royal lantern]

dont start that one

do yourself and eveyone else the favor, it always ends in a shitstorm by people that are overly emotional and just want a name to blame

[soft shale]

why would he if people are like this

[twin ermine]

Don't mention his name, they treat it like you said voldemort lol, i'm being gender insclusive XD

[vernal hatch]

they, hooly 3 min cd aintnoway

[fallow canopy]

just sending this so people that complain about slow mode mald at the prospect of a message that this serves no purpose yet still is here despite them wanting to type 10 messages in a row

[mighty crown]

[jaunty dew]

How dare you neglect the Kidneyshot change?

[spice surge]

Because that was hotfixed in last week

[balmy condor]

tooltip change from last week

[storm forum]

increase chat cd

[ebon temple]

yeah thats fair, im not disagreeing that the buffs are kinda meaningless or not asked for, but seeing some people jump to "devs dont care" just doesnt sit right with me ig

[drowsy hollow]

Undead Deathstalker Sin rogue feels like a great rp opportunity

[midnight mist]

guys im stuck on cd, is chat bug ? ?

[balmy condor]

that's why bro earlier got insta muted

[desert cove]

[cunning basin]

10 minute chat cd >:)

[balmy condor]

next to go is gonna be emotes if anything

[fiery mauve]

[shut canopy]

[balmy condor]

yeh fantastic

[rain mortar]

do we need some more AI generated Taylor Swift lyrics?

[normal mist]

We just don't like people blaming 1 guy that probably did his fucking best and probably got cockblocked by superiors, and yet people think its okay to use his name to shittalk him for 0 reason

[potent raven]

hello my fellow assassins

[past forum]

using my cd to say ty to @balmy condor and other community figures for putting in the work every patch knowing they'll eventually have to go through this nonsense. i simply would not have the mental to keep doing it

[still goblet]

he removed reacting too wtf admin abuse

[normal mist]

Damn

[spice surge]

If you have nothing to contribute with and youre just here to shitpost or stir shit i'd kindly ask you to leave

[kind talon]

hi

[normal mist]

"kindly" is a term used by Eleem btw, not whispyr

[balmy condor]

screw gets tightened until shitposting stops

[ebon notch]

soon this will be an ascii only channel

[balmy condor]

easy as

[covert jewel]

define shitposting tho

[vernal hatch]

tyranny

[drifting cloud]

using my 3min to ping @ebon notch

[final star]

Nice, we got buffs that's cool

[midnight mist]

guys why slowmode when buffs ? ? I tought slowmode was when nerfs ? ?

[bleak ledge]

[normal mist]

Here its when changes happen, good or bad

[earnest remnant]

you are not being funny

[fiery mauve]

damn that dog ugly

[normal mist]

no dog is ugly

[torpid crest]

https://tenor.com/view/looking-at-the-sky-hands-up-neymar-international-olympic-committee250days-brazil-grateful-gif-19174379

[drowsy hollow]

I am amused that the deathstalker fix was what I expected. They buffed the hell out of the visible part of the tree on details. Isn't deathstalker now like one of the strongest hero trees in relations to base kit? It definitely feels like it's over 25-30% single target

To exit my message, I meant what % of assassination damage is hero tree related. Feels higher than some other specs.

[lean aurora]

wait what?! We got buffed? hahahaha

[winged moss]

maybe the fear that devs realize they overbuffed assa

[analog bridge]

30% buffs!

[still goblet]

admin u forgot to edit other roles reacting perms

[normal mist]

Guys, to everyone posting animal pictures, use #1146207476983812117 please

[balmy condor]

I mean there's plenty of people here that just show up for buffs/nerfs to eat popcorn, cause chaos, shit on devs, and be generally unruly and unproductive. That's the shit that's not gonna be tolerated and why there's a slow mode, reaction removal, mutes, message deletions, etc.

Those people will also be the first to filter out and go troll some other corner of the internet once they realize that it's not fun over here

[mighty pine]

around how much total damage, %-wise for deathstalker/fatebound, is sin missing from hero talent+set bonus bugs?

[balmy condor]

cry about it

[bronze pike]

your dog looks like mine, ill post on #1146207476983812117

[final star]

We're going to unleash our inner warlock and get all our bugs fixed at once and go absolutely sicko mode on heroic week...
Then get nerfed again

[steel ridge]

oh boi

[normal mist]

If we get nerfed to a reasonable level, good

[desert cove]

<3, I just wanted to post a pic of my cute dog to quell the chaos, immediately had someone call him ugly Q_Q

[normal mist]

Dog was gorgeous, don't listen to the haters

[balmy condor]

fatebound is pretty close, mostly just feel-weird type of bugs

deathstalker it's hard to tell, but the capstone bug is going to drop deathstalker a couple percent, which can easily be made back up with echoing reprimand fix. It's all wishy-washy and hard to pin down

[lean aurora]

I fear we are too stronk heroic week : /

[normal mist]

tuning isnt over yet

[cunning basin]

All puppers and doggos are adorable, ignore the haters

[fallow canopy]

Better this than the Nathria treatment I guess?

[spring lantern]

bro...

[final star]

We both know that isn't happening king, given the history of blizzard. I stay optimistic

[bronze pike]

I mean people are to afraid of nerfs, like most of the time they’re solid and reasonable

[storm hedge]

I was 3rd in dps in our guild in Natria wdym

[normal mist]

I'l always optimistic. I'm an heroic raider afterall, in the end it does not matter at my level

[uneven plume]

they buffed us because our ST was not so good

[drifting cloud]

we all know what you want

[fleet pagoda]

do bug fixes ever get snuck in with these hotfixes or are we expecting to see those more in like proper beta updates?

[balmy condor]

tuning is general is a lot closer than people give credit for. They manage to get almost 30 dps specs within like a 5-8% spread every patch in really complicated situations. The only real outliers most of the time is when there's like very obvious exploited niche, boomkin on spread cleave council or sub on smolderon moving timings with dust to fit the intermission

[sour elm]

why's this dog so ugly

[balmy condor]

most bugs get snuck in with hotfixes or weekly resets, that's what they've done in the past for most betas/alphas. They usually don't mention most of the time whenn they fix bugs, but this round of deathstalker buffs didn't include any it seems

[normal mist]

well... idk why you think you're being funny lol

[final star]

✨ The downfall of Outlaw ✨

[royal lantern]

stop insulting that cute dog

the only ugly thing here is you

[hoary remnant]

Idm if they rework it into a range or tank spec

[rotund oak]

cuties 😍

[bronze pike]

i 100% agree, tuning has been on the ball this entire expansion and i think its fair to give credit where credits due. i have no concerns about tww when it comes to numbers. only design. but again they were also on the ball for design all of DF with multiple spec reworks and revamps and modernizations. so odds are tww will also be the same in that regard.

ultimately im very excited for tww not for the content rather the continuence for current tuning and design illiteration

[stuck knoll]

I like your dog Vyn

[lime crypt]

so now that the dust has settled, do you guys have the meme grieftorch weakaura?

[subtle tundra]

he looks goated

[indigo epoch]

Stronk doggo. I approve. 👍

[grand trail]

why i always miss deleted messsages

[strange python]

Your dog is so beautiful ❤️

[vernal hatch]

https://wago.io/f3QffCcBn/4

[normal mist]

You had to be there

[shy pecan]

(1) What kind of asshole calls dogs ugly?
(2) Here's hoping the tuning is a bit better and not like 1-1.5 months later at a time

[desert cove]

My best boy pipsqueak has successfully quelled the storm in #assassination , with a helping hand from the mods ofc. Our job here is done

[normal mist]

(1) - people that never owned a pet

[vernal hatch]

chat cd buffed

[lime crypt]

if they release expansion with so many bugs still out, ill officially lose it

[haughty flicker]

Wtf did I miss the fun

[hoary remnant]

Spamming feedback forums and reporting every day the same bugs

[grand trail]

on the rogue bugs they propabably will have to reserve lot of time, its not like someone will fix it during one afternoon

[lime crypt]

thats just some silly counter, i meant some new version (that works) of https://wago.io/o17LEZDnG

[rotund oak]

this looks so toxic

[haughty flicker]

I’m so mad I missed the slowmode fun

[winter sentinel]

Hi, I'm brand new to the class, could someone tell me where I could find guides or sites to help me?

[balmy condor]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[still goblet]

i own humans so those count as pets too

[vernal hatch]

oh the toxic chat msg one gotcha lmao

[subtle kiln]

I’ll remember this next transmog conversation in here.

[desert cove]

The assassination channel has a lot of helpful information in the pins

[royal lantern]

why is it everytime a spec is somewhat weaker, you instantly have people show up saying "just rework it into something complettely different!!!!!!!!"

like, whats the line of thought there? is there any thought at all? its insanity lol

[grand trail]

is reccomending maxroll actually against TOS here?

[lime crypt]

anything that sound ques me that the trinket got resetted would be helpful, dont really need the whispering part

[balmy condor]

I mean it's bad info generally and misinfo sucks

[normal mist]

Can you not be cringe for 5 minutes?

[vernal hatch]

trigger, spell, cooldown ready event

[still goblet]

wym cringe are u like 35year old or what

[lime crypt]

bro most wow players are 35year olds what are you on about

[balmy condor]

quit it

[normal mist]

idk, i was thinking the same

[devout mist]

baaaack in my daaaay

[grand trail]

i did not read their guides but the sub one look cool visualy

[ionic pumice]

can anyone give me a m+ talent

[normal mist]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[desert cove]

Guy joins today, instantly seeks to troll.

[subtle tundra]

seli is like 45 if i recall correctly

[rotund oak]

bruh nice deathstalker buffs

[devout mist]

hey, as long as we got over multiplying by 0 its a win

[ionic pumice]

imean a beta m+ talents cant find one

[balmy condor]

pins

[drowsy hollow]

Am I mistaken? On beta at least I thought deathstalker was doing fine single target, especially given its largely passive except the 7 CP resets?

[royal lantern]

nah, you are not mistaken, the entire thing is really confusing lol

[devout mist]

i think this is more to bring all 3 rogue specs in line for ST

[rotund oak]

ER-mark interaction still doesnt exist

[lone minnow]

I rly respect you Whisper, all the work u put in for so long, has to be said its admirable

[devout mist]

they pretty much shown they have sub where they want

[still goblet]

with this you assume every person who plays rouge knows how to play it

[balmy condor]

thanks man

[haughty flicker]

Blizzard looked at the sim sheet rip

[hard river]

[drowsy hollow]

They've made the auto attack talent do a lot which is weird given they tend to hate passive auto attack damage these days

[devout mist]

what does that have to do with anything

[west willow]

as a lifetime outlaw player is assa significantly better on beta rn or not so much better that i need to go learn it

[spice surge]

Its beta, theres like 6 weeks until the season is released

[still goblet]

cuz what u said doesn't mean anything

[devout mist]

w/e

[west willow]

yeah i just mean a friend of mine made it sound like it would be griefing to not be ready to play assa and im wondering if hes chalked

[versed mica]

Man I never would have expected such toxicity in this channel today after Deathstalker got buffs LMAO

[fierce bison]

What is the diff between yellow and blue here

[royal lantern]

yeha, he is kinda.....not smart then lol

judging stuff because of beta numbers is giga cooked

[balmy condor]

blue is sub yellow is outlaw

[normal mist]

Mostly new members joining and doing it

[west willow]

i figured, but i just wanted to ask lmao

[devout mist]

purple is whispyr

[royal lantern]

some people just want a excuse to go crazy for no reason

and yeha, many names i never saw before lol

[drowsy hollow]

I don't blame some people who want hero trees replaced entirely but that isn't a thing that'll happen til like 11.1 if ever

[storm hedge]

I wouldn't expect so much drama over numbers getting changed in any way in beta. Guess people have different mindsets

[balmy condor]

I mean no one here that's a regular was entirely out of line

it's just new people showing up for chaos

[royal lantern]

i defended the dog

cus who insults a dog

[normal mist]

Its like we're being ganked LOL

[haughty flicker]

Insulting a dog is fucked up

[balmy condor]

I mean that's actually what's happening yes

[devout mist]

we should stage a mage disc raid when they get nerfed

[shy pecan]

[versed mica]

Only I get to insult my dog by calling him a stinky little baby while giving him a belly rub

[stuck knoll]

We should not do that

[spring stream]

Is it often like this when there are new buffs?

[balmy condor]

in the server stats you can see join/leave metrics spike on days where rogue gets tuning

[normal mist]

with a cute voice ofc

[haughty flicker]

I do regularly call my cats pieces of shit but it’s out of love

[versed mica]

Fr fr

[balmy condor]

yes, also with nerfs, or basically any change

people on the internet just cannot contain themselves

[shy pecan]

No, you got new member weirdos and some people that are just cringe

[past forum]

im certain theyre saying the same or worse in their own language

[normal mist]

but they don't do it out of love xDD

[haughty flicker]

Oh for sure

[still goblet]

but isn't that fun for u

get to have some social time

[haughty flicker]

I had to get them flea collars and they definitely threw hissy fits over it

[normal mist]

oh boy

[balmy condor]

I'm here regardless

I just get to lock down the channel for like an hour and wait till the trolls decide it's not fun anymore

[versed mica]

https://youtube.com/shorts/tvDmruktCT4?si=bi47_I3wYH_nFRcn
Example 1:

[balmy condor]

otherwise it's just tuning like any other

[tall jay]

Wait I hate work…did I miss stuff …I always miss stuff in my cave of wonders

[devout mist]

what % of dmg is fatal intent? u mention rly weak in pins but i dont rly have a ballpark

[normal mist]

you didnt

some buffs

nothing important

[still goblet]

get buffs ppl complain get nerf ppl complain

[hazy geyser]

How is assassination looking from a design standpoint?

[balmy condor]

napkin math says probably no more than 2%

[balmy condor]

spec itself is pretty solid but the class tree is really whack and the hero talents are pretty whack too

[devout mist]

always thought fatal intent would be this huge deal that u gotta shiv at 20% or u get a 10 parse

[shy pecan]

That's kinda like the trinket when it came out in EP, right, damage wise?

[balmy condor]

design wise yes, damage wise no

trinket in EP was like 8%

[tall jay]

Oh good nothing g new to report then. 🙂

[shy pecan]

Ah. I don't remember because that was like two expansions ago 😛

[tall jay]

Still in “let’s wait till
They fix our bugs” mode got it 😦

[balmy condor]

yeah idk it's quitie a strange one, they also upped the proc rate it seems

[royal lantern]

then it would eat up a insane amount of the trees power budget and the tree would be balanced around that talent

its a sidenode, its supposed to be a minor gain and not a major thing you play around

[frozen iris]

What is wack about the class tree? Or has it been wack since the rework?

[devout mist]

wasnt there like a legendary, artifact shenanigan w/e that had this effect and was very strong? (im a SL baby dont ask )

maybe it was on warrior tho

[royal lantern]

we had a trinket with the effect during BfA in a raid (and the node is literally the trinket renamed )

[vestal wren]

can do that, i still have the script for emote only somewhere

[royal lantern]

and ye, was kinda strong there, 5%+ if i remember correctly

[haughty flicker]

Emote only goes hard

[devout mist]

i mean this tree is build from pieces, we got DF s2 tier baked into it aswell

[still goblet]

relax buddy

[devout mist]

lets not forget its the last 1 they rushed through the door

[balmy condor]

we went from like 110ish % attack power per minute from fatal intent up to 200ish % attack power per minute

to put that into perspective, deathstalker marks are 3.5% overall damage at 700% attack power a minute with the current consumption rate of stacks

so just based on that comparison, fatal might be barely scratch 1% overall dps

[devout mist]

[storm forum]

I was so sad I misread that and he deleted emote reacts, not make emotes the only thing we could talk in

[unborn wharf]

how would you end up picking up 2x subterfuge and 2x lethality?

drop tea or omething?

[royal lantern]

there is still a power budget

you cant make a single non-focus part of the tree absurd strong, cus then something else would need to be weaker, most of the time the core parts (or even worse, the spec itself)

[devout mist]

the good news is that i dont need to make a WA to scream at me at 21%

[devout mist]

this is evergreen

[royal lantern]

evergreen until we reached the end of the expansion and they did multiple big changes on almost all trees and how the entire system functions

[royal lantern]

??????? no ?????????

drop subterfuge lol, its literally ussules

[spice surge]

Mb you cant, meant 2x out of either lethality or subterfuge

and one point in the other

[unborn wharf]

ah for sure

[spice surge]

Either way the bug is very likely to get fixed so i wouldnt worry too much

[haughty flicker]

surely

[unborn wharf]

ye ye I was just looking at the talent tree like

wait how does that work

[balmy condor]

cold blood is just a huge wtf button, it gets macro'd most times and doesn't really provide anything interesting other than bloat. A lot of people hate echoing reprimand but I think it's fine personally, just a bit strange that it got copy pasted onto the tree with no changes from shadowlands, also got it's shadowlands legendary, and then nothing? 7cp animacharge on a 7cp max is kinda weird. Subterfuge/without a trace is completely pointless, sub only plays without a trace for shadowdust and outlaw plays subterfuge because they're chasing down their gutted underhanded upper hand that got spread through the trees. From assa's perspective neither subterfuge nor without a trace do anything

Then you still got all of the insanely niche utility points that don't do much of anything. Think shadowrunner, shadowheart, unbreakable stride, deadened nerves, stillshroud, recuperator being really weird etc

there's a lot of things the class tree provides that's either entirely worthless or really strange

[devout mist]

leave shadowed heart alone

[ebon notch]

i mean its just indicative of them needing filler nodes

[spice surge]

Idk daedened nerves, shadowrunner and stillshroud all have their places as utility nodes

[ebon notch]

ER could have been ER + leggo in one point

[balmy condor]

we have plenty of filler nodes

too many of them

[ebon notch]

ye thats my point

[balmy condor]

half of them don't do shit

[ebon notch]

most of them are pointless

[balmy condor]

oh I see yeah

[ebon notch]

but if they removed them theyd have to actually come up with new shit

and thats not in the budget

[balmy condor]

not in current design space, most of the shit that you get hit by as a non-tank is magic these days

[spice surge]

Shadowheart is a full on meme and unbreakable is incredibly niche, but the extra crippling slow as an option is neat

[spice surge]

In raids yes

[balmy condor]

I mean even in m+

[frozen iris]

Ah gotcha. That makes sense. I actually like echoing reprimand. Are we special in that regard? Or are there a lot of classes with useless talents

[ebon notch]

depends on how many things melee you in the same tick

[devout mist]

are we the only class that kept all their covenant abilities?

[spice surge]

Theres a lot more phys in m+

[balmy condor]

phys dam is a frontal that kills you or a big aoe slam

[ebon notch]

not for tanks

tanks can live most frontals or slams

[balmy condor]

well yeah but for rogue

like 5% phys reduction is kinda

????

it helps sometimes

[ebon notch]

ye

[balmy condor]

but I'd be willing to bet most people don't even realize that's a thing

[balmy condor]

most of the reworked trees ended up dropping and baselining things

like if you log in on a mage you have like 5 extra spells that are passive for the class

[spice surge]

Bleeds, most stomps, random shoots, saurids in ataldazar. Im not saying theres more phys than magic, but in raids its like 95% magic while in m+ its like 75% or something

[ebon notch]

they couldve legit added all 4 cov abilities + their leggo passives as the capstones of the class tree

[spice surge]

Obviously very dependant on which dungeons are active

[ebon notch]

then added new nodes underneath

and we'd be in a better spot

[subtle tundra]

hire this guy

[royal lantern]

*fire this guy

[ebon notch]

wtf

[devout mist]

Flag assa

[royal lantern]

still love you

[frozen iris]

Blizzard does love there mages. I feel like blizzard has been fairly quiet on rogues. Seems like most of there focus were the other classes that needed reworks like shaman

But i dont play any other class so i have no idea,

[still goblet]

i thought that emote was from dragon discord

[slate crown]

It helps my ironman runs

[ivory needle]

So is it true now that "PMulitplier" is really only tracking improved Garrotes with the removal of Nightstalker?

[drowsy hollow]

Didn't rogues get a substantial rework mid DF?

[royal lantern]

idk if you can call it substantial lol

[knotty kestrel]

Revamp at best

[royal lantern]

ret got a substantial rework

rogue had assa getting some changes, outlaw a couple things, and sub beeing 100% ignored lol

[storm hedge]

I've been meaning to ask, since I haven't been following the changes closely. Were we compensated for the KB nerf or are we just supposed to focus on other parts of our kit.

[spice surge]

Yes, but it was definitely an undercooked one

[royal lantern]

it was more of an "stuff is somewhat better then before, but far far from optimal"

[blazing plaza]

i just read the patch notes..it s over..gz rogues ❤️

[royal lantern]

the entire point of the "nerf" was so that more dmg is in the rest of our kit, and yes they did

KB was just too much

the entire spec turned into KB and nothing else really

[drowsy hollow]

KB still feels nutty for it's uptime.

[past forum]

[balmy condor]

yes, but that's basically what it is was before as well cause nightstalker and imp gar always overlapped

it's just no more rupture pmulti

[spice surge]

Assa aoe got substantial new changes, outlaw got some divisive changes (some loved it some hated it), sub got some help in singletarget but then dust ended up being too strong which warped the singletarget in a way that clearly wasnt intended while leaving the aoe very raw and undercooked, severely worse of than before the changes (the aoe that is)

[balmy condor]

check still exists in sims because no reason not to

[drowsy hollow]

Sin AOE being caustic heavy feels a tad weird on beta but I guess it's fine.

[ebon notch]

except that one

[still goblet]

whispy what u think about edaters

[subtle tundra]

im here for another set of kb nerfs

[balmy condor]

doesn't bother me

[still goblet]

i mena yah it shouldn't cuz ur not into it INNIT

[rain mortar]

Cut it out - KB feels so good

[subtle tundra]

i have to be nice since its a public discord, but fuck you

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

I've been with my girl for 9 years yeh

[still goblet]

married?

[subtle kettle]

Genuinely curious why KB gets hate, what’s the complaint usually ?

[balmy condor]

next year

[bronze pike]

theres like, 5 reworks in df

[still goblet]

nice

[bronze pike]

the rest were revamps

[still goblet]

💍

[royal lantern]

its varas

thats all

varas hates KB

[bronze pike]

idk who said it, but someone asked

[subtle tundra]

its more of a me thing, i hate how important it is for our aoe cause of caustic
didnt bother me before that was added

14 sec duration with a 60 sec cd means a quarter of our time we are in kb
also you need a small bit of setup so its a bit over a quarter of our time living KB

also im a big bleed advocate, i want to bleed stuff

[royal lantern]

tbf, the setup is "use envenom"

[subtle tundra]

thats still something

[royal lantern]

which is something you do somewhat regular

and in aoe can even be ignored to speed things up

[subtle tundra]

it is sure but its still a part of the thinking going on

for kb

which i dont mind, just adds to my hate

[balmy condor]

it's 0 thinking

you only kingsbane if you were going to envenom anyways

[subtle tundra]

remove kb or remove caustic, and im happier

budget aaaah outlaw gameplay

[hoary remnant]

w00t?

[subtle tundra]

yea ive played assa since before df, i can like the gameplay before the rework(s)

🙂

[blazing plaza]

we were nerfed ?

[balmy condor]

no?

[blazing plaza]

ok

[subtle tundra]

also dislike the whole having to target a single enemy and i lose dps by swapping targets, but now i have to hate deathstalker first for that reason

so i cant use that argument now

maybe im just a hater?

[static glacier]

ye probably

we been tunneling targets since forever

[subtle tundra]

no we havent

in aoe

🙂

[static glacier]

vendetta

xd

[subtle tundra]

vendetta was like no dps in aoe

you didnt really

[drowsy hollow]

All I want from Deathstalker is a glyph to turn my plague damage effects under city green.

[river beacon]

Well then reroll to feral you can swap targets and bleed spread as much as you want

[static glacier]

tbh it sounds like it's just a fatebound angle for most people

[subtle tundra]

fuck you

[static glacier]

ik im gonna start off fatebound

[drowsy hollow]

Sin feels like a good mix of poison and bleed damage right now

[subtle tundra]

ive been playing assa for over half a decade, your argument not gonna be to tell me to play something else

[blazing plaza]

didn’t t they buffed deathstalker ?

[normal mist]

just did a tiny bit yeah

[tall atlas]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[raven egret]

all the tuning is through datamine currently, official posts will come eventually

[floral vale]

Maybe they ALSO fixed bugs which will be announced with the post

[desert cove]

[drowsy hollow]

Apparently in past betas this is about the time we stop getting updates as they crunch to fix what they can

[raven egret]

Sure, ok,

[misty holly]

It looks like the Fatal Intent buff also increased proc chance quite a bit

If Im reading that wowhead update right

[hoary remnant]

it still does near 0 damage

[desert cove]

does it do near 0 damage b/c it's bugged or just poor tuning?

[weak isle]

finally had time to fix my Improved Garrote WA think its not bugging out anymore now

[balmy condor]

6 to 9 yeah, fatal as a whole got about a 100% buff in total

So now it’s 1% damage

Instead of like 0.5

[misty holly]

I guess that makes sense it is simply called Fatal Intent, not Fatal Accomplishment. No guarantee you succeed with it.

Like how I intended to vaccuum my room today, but instead Im farming mogs in Remix.

Intent doesnt mean much.

[wheat remnant]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
• You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[hidden herald]

On Wednesday wanting to play a few keys to get a feel for the new tuning going live

Would people recommend the cleave build or the bleed build?

[normal mist]

The wowhead guide has those recommendations

So far the SBS build is getting a LOT of love from the community

[tropic cedar]

SBS has always been a banger. i loved it as SLands Outlaw and ill love it as TWW Sin

[balmy condor]

if you're wanting to play the build most likely played next expac, you'd be looking at https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/talent-builds-pve-dps#mythic-plus-hybrid-bone-spike this most likely

but I gotta warn you that "getting a feel for the new tuning" is entirely pointless

[velvet hornet]

question about deathmark: does it duplicate the bleeds applied before, or after using it (or both)? never got this

[crisp creek]

Sin looking best rn, both raid and m+ ?

[balmy condor]

both

[crisp creek]

Thanks 🙂

[balmy condor]

right now yes but the season is over a month away

tuning will change

[crisp creek]

Okay, ty

[velvet hornet]

allright! cheers

[hoary remnant]

On previous raidtesting before it got buffed it was quite behind sub. Now should be roughly ~5% range of sub. Also highly fight depended what you will play. Also sub has lots of bugs so has sin. We just gotta wait and see. Nice thing is sub likes mastery so does sin. So you not gotta worry to much about stats imo.

[fierce bison]

The link said m+ hybrid bone spike but for me the link goes to the "Raid AOE". I suppose that the link is what you mean - and that the "hybrid bone spike m+" is what we're most likely to play?

[balmy condor]

yes

[hidden herald]

Cheers. Never played sin in keys only pvp and a bit of mythic raiding over the past few weeks, so just looking to practice a bit and set up Ui how I want it

[unkempt lantern]

I am sorry for the very dumb question, but I have been gone for 2 year, what are the poisons sin rogues use in raid. Can’t find that in any guide

[balmy condor]

whatever you talent into

deadly is the first talent, so that's just by default

if you have dragon tempered blades, you're also talented into amplifying

so that's 2 lethals gg

[unkempt lantern]

That’s the answer many thanks

[balmy condor]

then on the class tree you talent into either numbing/atrophic

so that's 1 non-lethal

and then your second non-lethal has to be crippling cause you got no other option

[unkempt lantern]

Does it matter what order you apply poisons?

Leather, since it says the second does less?

[balmy condor]

what

[royal lantern]

no it doesnt 😄

[balmy condor]

order doesn't matter

[royal lantern]

that would be kinda stupid

[unkempt lantern]

Thanks again, sorry for the stupid questions

[balmy condor]

all good

[fierce bison]

how do i get bone spike off the dummies lol

[royal lantern]

walk away a good bunch

like, leave the building and fly out of town and back in

[fierce bison]

haha aye thanks. I mustve not walked away far enough

thats annoyin

[viscid harness]

How does assa ”feel” in keys in terms of gameplay right now? I just want your personal opinion on how much you enjoy it

[shy pecan]

Feels good.

[hearty reef]

slow mod chec

k

[coral stratus]

Are there any Sims out for rapid injection losing out to master assassin.

[viscid harness]

Done any keys on beta?

[shy pecan]

Nah, tank prison. But nothing major really changes with the rotation for the most part.

[raven egret]

More or less same as it was before

[shy pecan]

There can be some min/max stuff listed in the beta info but that’s about it.

[opaque carbon]

any tips for energy managment one st

[viscid harness]

Should do some keys then to test. I played sub and assa both to 3k in s3 for reference but havent touched my rogue since.

What I gather we’re less screwed now from no restealths when chain pulling?

[raven egret]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[raven egret]

this will be updated for TWW without current tier but yeah

[shy pecan]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
• You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[viscid harness]

Is that current sim?

[shy pecan]

That’s in general.

[raven egret]

current sims change every week with tuning - above is general idea and remains true regardless

[shy pecan]

People make restealths a lot more than they really are.

Hence the command.

[raven egret]

Can't blame newer rogues really, the trees have a ton of stealth related nodes that can lead to that conclusion, its not very instinctive XD

[balmy condor]

it's -0.4%

[viscid harness]

fair points. I tought it would be more! But I also mostly played lower keys where aoe shiv was a lot of run

Empowered bleeds -> shiv -> ded

[raven egret]

to be fair in lower keys you can do near anything and still be fine

[viscid harness]

Yeah

But it feels better to open from stealth

[static glacier]

it does, but it ultimately won't make or break ur key

[shy pecan]

But so is not having to setup and just chain pulling with all your dots up into the next

[viscid harness]

And I’m a big fan of feelscraft because I enjoy that part too!

[shy pecan]

And just blasting right off the bat

[balmy condor]

also the command is actually wrong, cause its estimating garrote to be 14% of damage, when in reality it's actually closer to 10% and the impact of restealths is even less now

[raven egret]

10% !!!!!!

[viscid harness]

What key level is this simmed at? garrote / sudden demise was pretty high in my weekly 18s during s3 which is a level where anything goes

[balmy condor]

one more tuning pass until we drop imp gar

[viscid harness]

I am a big fan of the new talents and the shift back to rot damage (my understanding at least)

Feels much more assa-esque

[balmy condor]

aoe, dungeonslice, logs from high keys and compilation of weekly keys all together in a pot

[balmy condor]

bleeds have never been weaker than in tww really

crimson tempest is stronger

but gar/rupture are kinda suffering

[viscid harness]

But more poison/plague damage yes?

[balmy condor]

over half of ruptures value isn't even rupture anymore

I mean thematically deathstalker is plague damage but Idk if I'd call that "rot"

[viscid harness]

I mean rot as in dot

[balmy condor]

yeah exactly

like hunt them down is plague damage

but it's just auto attack damage

its just doing plague damage

but there's nothing dot about that

[viscid harness]

I might not understand all talents because I learned I have to play rogue for s1 for a guaranteed raid spot 2 hours ago 😂

[silk bane]

https://tenor.com/view/malenia-radahn-scarlet-aeonia-goddess-rot-gif-25746261

sin -> a lot of red and green themes. rot -> scarlet rot. they coulda given me her but here i am figuring out why marks not being applied again.

[spice surge]

And rupture does plague damage, which doesnt count towards stuff like sudden demise

[balmy condor]

only thing dot specific that hero talents add is corrupt the blood on deathstalker

everything else is just instant damage

[viscid harness]

But our damage profile is more even yes?

[balmy condor]

wdym by even

[silk bane]

prob flat

[viscid harness]

Like we’re doing more constant output, not spiky

[balmy condor]

no

we're very spikey

[viscid harness]

Oh

[balmy condor]

assa is a burst spec through and through

[viscid harness]

But not 60% dmg during PI kingsbane death mark spiky?

[balmy condor]

idk what 60% damage during pi kingsbane deathmark spikey means either is that some weird math someone did at some point

but fatebounds is burstier than s3 assa

[coral stratus]

is the -.4 for deathstalker or fatebound? Is the talent swap just use rapid if deathstalker and MA for fatebound with the current tuning

[balmy condor]

fatebound, deathstalker doesn't drop rapid injection

but yeah

you just swap into ma for fatebound and don't for deathstalker

capstone on deathstalker really like rapid injection for obvious reasons

[silk bane]

deathstalker basically adds a "flat" amount of damage output to your kit at all times. for you, it doesnt make you spikier or flatter. you could actually argue that since youre sending more envenoms + amp poison during deathmark, and this thing mostly just makes u do big envenoms, that it might make your "burst" a bit higher. but overall it doesnt make u flatter ot burstier. its a flat layer of constant damage added to you thing of this tree like a 20% aura buff

[viscid harness]

Yes. It just stuck. It was from heroic amir where (it felt like at least) you did most of your damage in your opener

[coral stratus]

Yea just seems odd that a 3 second buff its simming that close to a flat 10% with 90% uptime

[static glacier]

are the flips that strong from being energy capped?

[balmy condor]

that's still a thing

[static glacier]

surprising since they kneecapped KB

[balmy condor]

I mean you open from stealth get 2 flips, then you edge case and get 2 flips, you vanish during deathmark and get 2 more flips

it's a lot of flips

has nothing to do with energy

it's just big flippy bois

[static glacier]

can't say I've done the maths on it but it deffo feels like we use a lot more finishers in cds

than outside

so more flips from that too

[balmy condor]

sure yeah

[static glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/cryptoland-cryptoisland-fiji-private-island-whitelist-gif-26441465

[silk bane]

my eyes

[static glacier]

gnight, I'll leave you with this coin

this is our future

[viscid harness]

Oh, I tought our damage Curve was gonna be more even

[balmy condor]

big flippy boys

[balmy condor]

nah

kingsbane went from doing 14% damage to 10% damage

big whoop

you get a fuck ton of hero talent juice on top of the spec

[viscid harness]

Ah

[balmy condor]

more than makes up for a little kb loss

[static glacier]

I just didn't think enough about how many of our flips are concentrated around cds

[shy pecan]

Sin and sub aren’t going to be flat damage profiles any time soon

[slate crown]

Yo wtf when did weakauras add ctrl+z

to their editor

that's crazzzzy

[spice surge]

Im 99% sure sub has the least flat profile in the entire game

[shy pecan]

Forever and a day ago

[humble ginkgo]

why the fuck are they still buffing assa?

[shy pecan]

Why not?

[spice surge]

Subs burst is insane

[static glacier]

at this point ye, no other spec really comes close, maybe 3 min build uh

[silk bane]

cuz they tune for raid.

[humble ginkgo]

already most op spec in the game and they keep buffing

[viscid harness]

Am I understanding the capstone that you always refresh desthstalker and this you have it upp full time on a boss?

[humble ginkgo]

assa needs to be nerfed by 30%

[silk bane]

okay bud

when outlaw nerfs

that shits simming 1.5M

[humble ginkgo]

im just being true you know why

[shy pecan]

!rtb 5 and ban skip

[balmy condor]

well you have mark downtime while you're building to 7 and reapplying from the capstone

but aside from that yeah

[shy pecan]

Damn not OT

[silk bane]

I think db bursts like 3.9M

banger

not sure how thsat compares with other specs though

[balmy condor]

bout 25% higher than assa

[silk bane]

yeah makes sense

[spice surge]

Dust is like 4.1, almost 4.2 without swift death

[static glacier]

maybe arcane can compete

[silk bane]

the lows ar elike 300k dps

litaerlly healer damage

[spice surge]

@balmy condor 📈

[balmy condor]

those symbols peaks

[balmy condor]

this with the hotfixes?

[cerulean nest]

@balmy condor trying to interpret the pooling guide a little. outside of CDs, once you get to such low energy that you can't feasibly keep 100% envenom uptime, do you pool it back to 70 to start again or?

[spice surge]

Ye

[viscid harness]

A friend told me he’d seen a sim or assa doing 1.6m dps after last round of buffs. What is our current ST sim?

[silk bane]

isnt it beautiful

[balmy condor]

makes sense

[silk bane]

350k less than whatever he was dreaming assa simmd

[spice surge]

Imp garrote still simming higher than improved poisons though

[shy pecan]

How much more?

[spice surge]

Its in the picture, 0.2%

[silk bane]

is there a nature damage trinket? I bet lingering darkness buffs that for sin LMFAO

[balmy condor]

don't really want to say because idiots with access to google sheets like izen decide to compile beta numbers and mislead people like your friend

so

be like that

[shy pecan]

Oh couldn’t even see that mb

[silk bane]

oh that things already out there and sins sims on it

[balmy condor]

gotta say though, 2x lethality kinda cringie

[spice surge]

This is why ive blacked out the numbers that aint percentages btw

[balmy condor]

yeh

good move

[runic hinge]

They don’t want you to be happy

[balmy condor]

nop

[spice surge]

Theres a screenshot of a sim comparison