You want imp gar for dm and it lines up great like that
#assassination
mint valve
so for m+ if you get a clean restealth before a pack.. you would save your vanish to reapply improved garrote for when your initial carnage garrotes fall off?
errant trail
i feel like sometimes you have to wait when people use their CDS in certain situation because i feel like stuff dies really fast
but i could be wrong i’m still figuring out
balmy condor
Yeah especially in low keys
errant trail
yeah low keys im wondering if i just wait for next pack because warrior and arcane mage
blow all CDS
no way my death mark kb will be useful
even in a 12 on non tyran
this spec was meant for raiding tbh lol
soft niche
!restealth
prisma monolithBOT
Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
- Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
- You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
- This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
- You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
- This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years
desert gate
are there any youtube guides for prioritising rotation in m+ and raid? getting back into assassination after almost 5 years of core sub/outlaw
slate crown
are there any youtube guides for prioritising rotation in m+ and raid? getting b...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st6UJOP5Ok4
This video was from s3 but it's still for the most part accurate, check out his recent vids for more TWW specific stuff (again, all the major concepts are still the same from that video)
raven egret
In M+ : Crimson Tempest and believe!
sick sail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st6UJOP5Ok4
This video was from s3 but it's sti...
this is good, looking for pvp ones too
gray flower
i assume Envenom uptime is still really important right? just coming back to the game
runic hinge
Yeah if you mean it’s like 100%
gray flower
i mean like, do i have to be maximizing it or will it just be up all the time if im doing things right
runic hinge
If you pool correctly yeah it’ll be really high
runic hinge
i mean like, do i have to be maximizing it or will it just be up all the time if...
!pooling
Oh
Moroes is dead
gray flower
sad
slate crown
Pooling while Moroes naps #assassination message
keen spruce
runic hinge
<:bla:1264689429424115795>
11 am tee time tomorrow
actually getting to the course early and warming up
gray flower
Pooling while Moroes naps https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923...
ty
fresh barn
guys there use to be a weakaura for kingsbane that showed enevonom/shiv uptime i cant find it anymore is it removed?
shy pecan
Look for Notter’s Kingsbane on Wago
fresh barn
found tnx
errant trail
if u dont go CT in M+ is it really trolling
this feels rly good tbh even tho not the favored
runic hinge
Depends on how high keys you’re doing and if you have something to live your kb for caustic to work every pull
Also MA can’t be better than something else where you don’t vanish for the end of kb anymore
blazing mauve
i feel like Vigor is bad with Sanguine Blades am I right or right
rotund oak
this feels rly good tbh even tho not the favored
u should pick CT in m+ always
the demand for ST increases as the key increases
not the other way around
silk bane
i feel like Vigor is bad with Sanguine Blades am I right or right
you cooked too close to the sun. burned the kitchen
errant trail
ok
steel ridge
i feel like Vigor is bad with Sanguine Blades am I right or right
i dont feel anything anymore
keen mantle
Is there any bug with envenom hitting harder sometimes? i saw kush complaining about it yday aswell @balmy condor
that he didnt realise where more dmg is coming from
here i have only used 1 minutes
no 2mins
keen mantle
i mean i was doing 4.5mil envenoms
and not on first boss
is that normal?
Also are we aware that darkest night does not give energy back?
or im cooked?
steel ridge
deathstalker does massive envenoms, but i dont have any data myself on how hard it hits after the latest tuning
i heard some people do 3m before the last tuning, so i guess its kinda up there, yes
slate crown
Also are we aware that darkest night does not give energy back?
With Darkest Night I was hitting for 3m on target dummies during 2mins with old version of serum trinket
Oh responded tow rong msg
but also darkest night gives energy back when you gain the darkest night buff, not when you cast the darkest night envenom
Yeah just did a 3.1M during deathmark on target dummies with 612 gear and serum up
Huh
Didn't clear the witnesses have a buff associated with it?
silk bane
this is just shiv/execute/10% stat buff from flowers/on the damage amp boss on a darkest night envenom. seems normal
silk bane
Didn't clear the witnesses have a buff associated with it?
it does! or rather, it used to earlier today
slate crown
I'm just on target dummies and it doesn't right now
Like I'll apply mark but I don't gain a CtW buff
casting fok still does ctw damage tho
silk bane
its 2nd row 3rd icon from the left
try to setup a mark with darkest night see if it works. not sure if it works if u get marks through ambush from stealth
slate crown
Oh
I see it now, I thought it would have like
the same icon as the talent, or of the damage spell
and not something else entirely >.>
silk bane
that woulda been nice, but we got this... no idea what im even look at with this icon tbh
past marlin
!restealth
prisma monolithBOT
Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
- Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
- You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
- This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
- You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
- This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years
keen mantle
Does darkest night give you energy back boys? @silk bane
raw tusk
So is the general jist in m+ to dot up enough to maintain energy and then prio target and envenom to work off the splash of caustic?
shy pecan
Yeah
balmy condor
Does darkest night give you energy back boys? <@639956635300790285>
yes
shy pecan
Can throw a CT in there too for more AoE damage as well
raw tusk
Sweet appreciate it, haven’t played sin since like season 1 and barely did then. Trying to relearn it
boreal pike
hey guys im looking at switching to my rogue for this expansion anyone got a build i can use to get used to the beta build with a rotation?
balmy condor
wowhead or pins
boreal pike
the builds you put on are to be used on beta or live?
boreal pike
thankyou 😄
balmy condor
np
brave gyro
Thank you, Whispyr
balmy condor
np
white lance
the vanish during kb we did before was for nightstalker right?
limber lion
For Master Assassin
white lance
oh right
limber lion
But because we lost so much power in Kingsbane with its nerf and the removal of Dance/Nighstalker, Master Assassin lost a lot of value as well
And no longer really sees play
We currently just use Vanish as means to reapply Improved Garrote
white lance
gotcha, thanks
limber lion
Npnp
static glacier
he's still the same guy
grim jay
never expected sap to be a rankcist
tropic falcon
hey, when playing with 7 cp talents, at how many should i start using envenom and rupture?
kindred breach
You should aim to use finishers at 6 CP
balmy condor
5*
balmy condor
correct
grim jay
correct
what about if there is an important add spawning in the bossfight and we for some reason still play deathstalker, do we just finish at 4 cp then if DN is up to avoid risking a max cp envenom or the need to rupture instead?
balmy condor
no idea
bronze pike
balmy condor
tropic falcon
Woops my bad
ok ty
do u guys have a recommended talentsetup for low keys? the ones on wowhead all use master assassin, but we dont wanna use that anymore right?
normal mist
Wowhead is updated
grim jay
do u guys have a recommended talentsetup for low keys? the ones on wowhead all u...
if they do have it
then we do want to use it
the other nodes are just bad aswell
the bleed variant for m+ is better for lowkeys
with zoldyck
frosty junco
Hellou im new in WOW
Wanna try rugue, could you please share the guide
for dungeons and raid ))
tropic falcon
the other nodes are just bad aswell
ah okay, but i dont rly play around it right?
grim jay
ah okay, but i dont rly play around it right?
you'll mostly use it for spreading dots or to apply improved garrote before you DM
tropic falcon
ye ok, ty guys :9
crystal nymph
hero talents for m+? is there any pic to see them
balmy condor
Deathstalker plays momentum lingering because the other choice nodes are trash, fatebound plays cold blood and inevitability
It’s pretty likely we see more tuning specifically on those choice nodes
Especially the deathstalker ones are really sus
balmy condor
Follow the blood is just really weird cause momentum of despair does the same thing but better
Like they’re so similar
Follow the blood is just damage
Momentum of despair is crit chance and damage, which is also just damage
Except crit chance then also gives cp and energy if you play dashing
And they buff all the same things
balmy condor
Yeh that choice node has always been a big wtf
It’s not much of a choice if both choices are identical
rotund oak
delusion node
royal lantern
more aoe dmg on the skill you use only in aoe
or more aoe dmg on the skill you use only in aoe
balmy condor
And then the other deathstalker choice node, symbolic victory is just really bad and that’s about it
Symbolic victory tbh should just be “envenom damage is further increased by 10% when cast during shiv”
Instead of just the first
Making it just the first envenom is problematic
rotund oak
personally i wouldnt even care for those nodes if the mark was reasonably applied and consumed
now im just silently griefing
sniffin massive amounts of hopium for something better
lets say u have a fight like experiments
mark falls
cya bruh
laters
balmy condor
Yeh, that’s basically what the second to last boss is
It’s not 3, but there’s similar jumping around and spawning/disappearing
rotund oak
yup ive seen that on ur stream
there is jsut no way deathstalker sees the light of day if mark remains like that
coinflip ftw
balmy condor
Idk why we even have timers on stuff either
Like why does the capstone need a timer
What’s the purpose
The only thing adding a timer to the capstone does is make it worse to play
balmy condor
I mean it doesn’t even do that
If you’re in combat the timer is completely irrelevant because your top priority is getting the mark back up
So you got 30 seconds to apply an envenom and you’re doing it in 5
In aoe you’re doing the same thing as well
But in m+ if you have a long run between packs
And then have to spread your bleeds
Now you have pressure from the timer
And why
balmy condor
Like what’s the point of that
balmy condor
Yeh
Like the tree is functioning fine
The timer and the capstone triggering on death
Are great
But it’s just all these tiny things that make the hero talent absolute agony when you hit those situations
Like why does the aoe choice node do the same thing on both sides, kinda weird
Why does the capstone timer exist
Why does the mark drop during intermissions and shit
Is it intended that we fok in st?
All this kinda weird stuff
Shiv with fatal intent
Ya know
75% of these talents have some jank involved
royal lantern
Like why does the capstone need a timer
something something "friction" and "skill expression"
idk man
just insert any of their ussual "here is a reason why thing has a clunky mechanic" reasoning
balmy condor
Yeh just undercooked
royal lantern
like, idk, my opinion is
some of those things are legit easy fixable
dont even need greater changes to atleast make it not akward/a pain in the ass and literally unplayable in some fights
and they just dont do it
so we have to wait for the comming "Bigger changes" in 1-2 patches and its finally allright
steel ridge
They just hate rogue… arcane mage feedback regarding nether precision got heard and fixed within days
Deathstalker is on life support since reveal
hoary remnant
Question: If we try to trigger our capstone [Fateful Ending] (aka lucky coin) with coldblood and 2 vanish charges it doesnt work. You would in theory break 2 stealth getting after first few sec in combat 2 guaranteed flips and another 2 for breaking stealth. Making it 5 and now another one with coldblood talent. I am probably missing something just want to know what
spice surge
It does work with double vanish
You just have to leave stealth for the vanish node to work (so you cant envenom in vanish)
Just that taking double vanish for proccing it earlier isnt worth it
hoary remnant
It does work with double vanish
yeah it worked I was kinda "shocked" you can essentially control with that the capstone.
hoary remnant
Just that taking double vanish for proccing it earlier isnt worth it
Just number wise? Isnt this worth during prog on pure st boss?
spice surge
Why would it be, you'd have to spec double vanish
Which is like a 5% loss, just to proc the capstone 20 seconds faster on average
balmy condor
You’re telling me I can get a 0.2% gain for the low low price of a 5% loss?
WHAT A DEAL
royal lantern
You’re telling me I can get a 0.2% gain for the low low price of a 5% loss?
finally you understand the m+ andy mindset
runic hinge
hoary remnant
Which is like a 5% loss, just to proc the capstone 20 seconds faster on average
I didn't care about the numbers just the fact you can force the capstone is interesting.
hoary remnant
You’re telling me I can get a 0.2% gain for the low low price of a 5% loss?
yes bad deal, but just messing around with the talents.
spice surge
I didn't care about the numbers just the fact you can force the capstone is inte...
Ye sure, but that should be the default even without double vanish imo
dense socket
kush cooked best m+ build clean your eyes before looking at picture
spice surge
Controlling the stacks with CB should be the gameplay loop of fatebound imo, instead of just...nothing?
balmy condor
kush cooked best m+ build clean your eyes before looking at picture
What
balmy condor
The more I look the more confused I am
hearty reef
Unlucky spatter with no kb
hoary remnant
Controlling the stacks with CB should be the gameplay loop of fatebound imo, ins...
yes that also is something that might be good. Also tested that. Feels a bit less control but the uptime in m+ playing CB over echo seemed higher from lucky coin. (could also be just luck to little sample). Not caring rn about numbers.
dense socket
he is testing it now troll or not
balmy condor
No shot
dense socket
hes trolling
spice surge
yes that also is something that might be good. Also tested that. Feels a bit les...
Well you dont play around cb
You macro it into everyone of your abilities
hoary remnant
yeah just had with cb more uptime
but low sample size could be w/e or just good chaining from tank not losing the buff
rotund oak
That sort of burnt cooking can only come from one assa rogue at a time
yo ive tested it
it sucks
willow rapids
Try the same build with swords, maybe it's better
balmy condor
based
fresh blaze
is there any beta sim for assasin builds?
balmy condor
depends what you're looking for
fresh blaze
st builds?
balmy condor
those are in the pins
CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMjZmhZmxyMAAAAAAMbwyMAAAAAA022MzwDMzYMzMLz2YMGMzMzMzYmNbjZAAAABgAAA
ionic matrix
fatal intent working on beta at all? dont see it in details or in simc anywhere
fresh blaze
it's beta numbers
yeah but its still some infos about dps profile
grim jay
yeah but its still some infos about dps profile
what matters on a profile is still the same
balmy condor
fatal intent working on beta at all? dont see it in details or in simc anywhere
no
the spell data is completely fucked
so it's just 0's
ionic matrix
interesting. Well beta is beta
fresh blaze
what matters on a profile is still the same
i was interested to know how much difference is between my profile and sim profile
ionic matrix
not to be a doomer, cause I am certainly optimistic about the expansion, but it seems like there are a lot of bugs and pretty undercooked with where we are being 3 weeks away
balmy condor
not to be a doomer, cause I am certainly optimistic about the expansion, but it ...
they're gonna be doing fixes every week all the way through season release
ionic matrix
I have faith
balmy condor
usually expac releases and we don't have much until raid release
but they gotta just crank changes every week
there's no other way
ionic matrix
yeah, agreed
grim jay
ye like the actual point where it needs to work is still further away
people tend to forget that
slim hamlet
We got multiple bug fixes from 1st week of 10.2 till the actual raid release
Surely bug free when raid releases
ionic matrix
it does feel farther behind than in other expansions, but I think they can get it there in time
slim hamlet
Even recup is getting fixed this time 
slim hamlet
hell no
slim hamlet
Does it not work either lol
slim hamlet
huh
ionic matrix
as sub, you dance like every 30 seconds, it should be doing giga healing as sub
it does NOTHING
slim hamlet
I mean it only does healing if you need healing
balmy condor
soothing darkness works
ionic matrix
it did a shit ton
balmy condor
recup is the one that doesn't
slim hamlet
^
grim jay
ye cant remember soothing not working
spice surge
Its just that it tends to overheal a lot
slim hamlet
gigantic
More than I thought
I would've expected like 25k
Isn't the bug that it just stops working as soon as you stealth
ionic matrix
400 hps
rotund oak
Kinda banging
maplestory is just better
balmy condor
did recup work in 10.0?
it works sporadically can't really tell why
spice surge
It worked for outlaw in 10.2 as well
slim hamlet
Like I remember looking at logs and it doing literally nothing
But it just happened to work decently on my kill logs
Wait does that mean recup is op? If it works you kill
balmy condor
surely
slim hamlet
Makes sense to me
ionic matrix
if it never over healed
it should do 3.3k hps per second
if you have a mill hp
at 1.5, it should do like 5k hps if it didnt overheal
it does 250.
ionic matrix
This is 10.1
this is outlaw? I assume because of thorns?
ionic matrix
crazy that it worked there and other times it does nothing
slim hamlet
We played that in 10.1
crystal nymph
for aoe rotation in IC window should i change target or it spreads garrote and rupture to targets those do not have debuff
i mean for 5 targets i assume if i use 2 times garrote and rupture on same target all targets have debuff?
storm forum
if there are 6 or more targets you should swap targets to an enemy that doesnt have gar or rup
yeah on 4 or 5 targets it doesnt matter
cause all enemies will get emp gar, even if you use it on the same target
left radish
Hello. I know, I asked this a couple of days ago, but I'm still kinda struggling with it. I would like to play Amplifying Poison as well as Serrated Bone Spike, but I don't know which points I can take out. I would like to keep the 4 Keystones I have selected as well. One point I thought I could take out was Master Assassin for Doomblade, which still leaves me with 1 point I need to get, but all these talents seem kind of necessary to me. Does someone have a suggestion?
rotund oak
Hello. I know, I asked this a couple of days ago, but I'm still kinda struggling...
MA
ma is basicly irrelevant node
left radish
That's Master Assassin right? I can put that into Doomblade, but which point can I put into Serrated Bone Spike?
rotund oak
That's Master Assassin right? I can put that into Doomblade, but which point can...
ironwire
u trade the silence for dmg
left radish
Isn't Iron Wire really strong though? It also reduces the enemy's damage by 15%
rotund oak
ye it is cool
left radish
I guess there are no other talents I could take out, because they're too strong, right?
rotund oak
assuming u wanna keep amp poison u cannot skip LD
basicly u could coz u can go down from doomblade
but i would sim the tree
its already buffling to me coz u wanna keep the 4 capstones
personally im feeling very weird when im not specced into zoldyck
slim hamlet
u trade the silence for dmg
left radish
its already buffling to me coz u wanna keep the 4 capstones
It's a little weird, I know. I really do like Amp Poison and Bone Spike though and I have only seen the Raid loadout on wowhead with both of them
I'm trying for M+ though, that's the problem
rotund oak
<:starege:923197272064426075>
bro wants the 4 capstones what u staring at
got any better ideas? 🙂
slim hamlet
idk
rotund oak
I'm trying for M+ though, that's the problem
yeah its obvious
slim hamlet
Taking 1 or the other, can't have everything in a talent tree
rotund oak
ye thats the point
ild jsut sim personally,u cant have eveyrthing
u sacrifice stuff for dmg
but idk,DTB for m+
left radish
Yeah I thought maybe you guys would have an idea what is cuttable like Master Assassin or something like that
Still, thanks for the suggestions!
rotund oak
u r welcome fam
slim hamlet
I definitely think not taking iron wire is troll in keys
rotund oak
but DTB isnt? 😛
slim hamlet
idk how much DTB without amp even is
pure moth
Agreed
rotund oak
amp and dtb both are some ''st'' elegently
but i even doubt that makes any diff compared to zoldycks
and ap
thats the epitomy of trolling tbh
oblique jackal
You could remove 2nd SHiv
spice surge
Yeah I thought maybe you guys would have an idea what is cuttable like Master As...
Master assassin is definitely the first talent you should be cutting in this situation, if you want to keep amp youll probably remove second shiv charge
left radish
Master assassin is definitely the first talent you should be cutting in this sit...
How big is the impact on Kingsbane with only 1 Shiv?
spice surge
You dont have AP anyway so shiv is only really singletarget dps
slim hamlet
Spatter?
with kb
Or does that not work
Actually it doesn't right to not double dip with AP right?
spice surge
It does not indeed, unless theyve changed it recently
drifting cedar
so when using the m+ build from the pins, do we vanish last 3 secs of kingsbane?
spice surge
No
left radish
It does not indeed, unless theyve changed it recently
Oh, I actually did not know that Caustic Spatter and Kingsbane do not interact. Today I learned
left radish
Oh, then I understood it incorrectly, mb
spice surge
It spatters the pre-shiv kb damage afaik
left radish
Where would you shiv then with only 1 shiv? At the beginning of Kingsbane or at the end? Or does it not matter?
spice surge
Should be at the end
left radish
Alright, thanks for the suggestion! I'll check it out
oblique jackal
I really like the way sin is played out. Either you go full bleed or go full poison
slim hamlet
Or full ST + IC and Spatter
spice surge
I find it a bit weird that theres a talanet that makes poison do decent aoe, but none that makes bleeds do decent singletarget
slim hamlet
or one of the other 35 builds
spice surge
Since bleeds in general is aoe and poison singletarget focused
oblique jackal
I wish DM wasn't tied to a specific mob
oblique jackal
It should be appilied to all Mobs
slim hamlet
I mean
spice surge
I personally just prefer bleeds
spice surge
And bleeds are weak
slim hamlet
I would rather keep it as a ST thing
I honestly don't think I have any problem with assa right now, I wish we still had dance but that's it
Oh and if we end up going VV and not using vanish that will be omega cringe
slim hamlet
How?
It does aoe with spatter
I think it's just different than other specs
A lot of people wanna make assa like every other spec idk why
oblique jackal
Well, like Avenging Wrath
slim hamlet
Yea why would you want it to be another specs CD
oblique jackal
It's a personal buff that doesn't go away if said mob dies
oblique jackal
Exactly
spice surge
If only we had an ability that made us do our damage anyway
oblique jackal
which obiviously a simple fix. DO higher keys lol
spice surge
That suddenly would kill enemies and not waste your damage
slim hamlet
Yea exactly
You lose the CDs going full but you get sudden demise pops in low keys
Which might be better
spice surge
Its not better obviously, but sudden demise makes it a lot less bad
slim hamlet
Also if you're doing low keys because that is like your ceiling, then having a prio mob just get deleted isn't even bad
slim hamlet
Its not better obviously, but sudden demise makes it a lot less bad
Yea I meant better in feeling not numbers
DM definitely felt bad in m+ before spatter
Legit 0 aoe cooldown spec
Or well I guess IC was a cooldown
pure moth
Should be at the end
If shivs at the end.. wouldn't you be missing a lot of damage with this type of build? Kb on trash is already weaker cuz it dies quick.
So shivs a waste until bosses.
Doesn't sound like an optimal build attempt
slim hamlet
You wouldn't wait to use shiv if mob dies before ofc
spice surge
If shivs at the end.. wouldn't you be missing a lot of damage with this type of ...
Idk what you mean? Shiv is already weak on aoe without AP
digital pollen
since i couldnt find it in the pins (maybe blind idk): do we vanish for garrote at the end of deathmark since we dont play MA for KB? (for raid only)
normal mist
Your first vanish it when your first garr is below 6 secs
Then you just delay DM a bit and sync vanish to DM forward
late surge
whats the cd usage website called again? where u can see when the top logs uses cds
past forum
Lorrgs?
late surge
thanks bro
feral mason
im really hating these hero talents in the sense that some of the utility / passive nodes from certain trees are so dope, but the rest of the tree around it is so ass that you cant play it
(singular focus / 1h tricks as an example)
spice spire
singular focus
How about you singular focus deez nuts
feral mason
ay man idk if it doesnt work or something but seems like a great node
didnt check beta bugs
royal lantern
its not bugged
it just doenst do anything
lol
like, the dmg is far from beeing a giant big thing you focus on
spice surge
Its less bugged nowadays and actually does something
But yes, nothing you play around
violet glade
What hero talent tree we playing in tww
royal lantern
its some 2% more dmg on aoe situations against your maintarget and thats it
royal lantern
What hero talent tree we playing in tww
crystallball says:
either deathstalker or fatebound
ask again when tuning is done
exotic hazel
As long as they're both within a few % of eachother I'll be happy
royal lantern
As long as they're both within a few % of eachother I'll be happy
thats their goal
exotic hazel
Not a fan of being forced one way or another
feral mason
exotic hazel
I mean name one time this game has ever had balancing issues
slate crown
feral mason
royal lantern
I mean name one time this game has ever had balancing issues
DF was overall well balanced
exotic hazel
It actually was
royal lantern
inc: people swoop in and bring up he couple edge cases
exotic hazel
Doomers gonna doom
feral mason
raid was good, m+ has been kinda fucked since 10.1.5
exotic hazel
I played Assa in S1 of DF and then moved to Ret and WW, coming back for TWW and the changes they've made to Assa are pretty great imo
feral mason
had a period in 10.2 where it was decent tho
quiet flax
Is vanish the only way to reapply death mark in a long fight with an intermission effect (where the mark isn’t fully consumed and you are unable to reapply with the capstone)?
For assassination, I mean.
vagrant frigate
If only there was an ability we had previously
vagrant frigate
You know what? Agreed
royal lantern
Is vanish the only way to reapply death mark in a long fight with an intermissio...
congratz, you found a problem that blizzard apperantly cant find
royal python
They should just change it to double crit mutilate applies deathmark
exotic hazel
If only there was an ability we had previously
I'm happy Sub gets a bit more identity back by being the only spec with Shadow Dance personally
quiet flax
congratz, you found a problem that blizzard apperantly cant find
Thanks...yeah, that's annoying. Probably would have been fine if we still had shadow dance or an alternative...
exotic hazel
Designing Assa around Shadow Dance is bad... If I wanted a spec built around stealth I'd play Sub
vagrant frigate
I'm happy Sub gets a bit more identity back by being the only spec with Shadow D...
I agree I just wish they would have redesigned Outlaw and Sin's trees a little bit more with it's removal
exotic hazel
I agree I just wish they would have redesigned Outlaw and Sin's trees a little b...
Tbf as someone who PvP's a fair bit too, I'm very happy to see double Vanish as an option for us
Brings Assa more in-line with survivability there
daring river
What Are the current Go to Hero Talents for Assa in m+?
royal lantern
Thanks...yeah, that's annoying. Probably would have been fine if we still had s...
or like
you know
make it applie with rupture lol
the ability both specs share
and its a mark
daring river
Would be awesome if someone could give me a Talent Import for a quick Test on Beta
exotic hazel
What Are the current Go to Hero Talents for Assa in m+?
Check the pins or WoWHead 🙂
blazing plaza
is assa op on current beta build ?
inner swift
If only we had an ability that made us do our damage anyway
good ol vendetta 😦
normal mist
is assa op on current beta build ?
Hopefuly not
quiet flax
or like
you know
make it applie with rupture lol
That might be too passive for Blizzard. Maybe a standalone button we press?
exotic hazel
That might be too passive for Blizzard. Maybe a standalone button we press?
No more buttons 😠
errant trail
i have something i need to get off my chest
so i was doing a dungeon last night
and my caustic spatter was bugged entire dungeon
was going off at all
i left dungeon reloaded
and it was fixed
this is like triggering as fuck rn
slim hamlet
on live?
hexed matrix
I really dpnt understand the deathmark tied to ambush thing. Why its not garrote, who knows. What about some sort of energy management way to trigger death mark app? Energy capped for 3 seconds and your next envenom applies? Feel free to tell me I'm stupid for a reason I'm not thinking about 🙂
errant trail
yeah on live
100%
i was doin halls
and i was like wtf my Caustic spatter WA wasnt even triggering
slim hamlet
I really dpnt understand the deathmark tied to ambush thing. Why its not garrote...
I don't think anyone likes it on ambush, but on garrote is bad because you wanna garrote other targets too
And also definitely no one wants to be energy capped for 3 seconds
hexed matrix
Exactly why I was thinking of some energy related thing, that way it resets between pulls or on intermissions
slim hamlet
Personally I would rather it just be a seperate button
hexed matrix
Yeah... buttons 🤪
slim hamlet
and i was like wtf my Caustic spatter WA wasnt even triggering
idk, we knew it was a bug on beta
slim hamlet
Yeah... buttons 🤪
I mean we lost 5 in DF I think 1 button aint bad
errant trail
well its happening in dungeons
and i can confirm it
and ill record a video if it happens again
slim hamlet
The only reason it is on ambush is probably because people complain about buttons
errant trail
blizzard needs to fix their stupid game
exotic hazel
blizzard needs to fix their stupid game
hexed matrix
The only reason it is on ambush is probably because people complain about button...
I'm not convinced that's the only reason haha. But I hear you.
hexed matrix
I think whoever designed it doesn't play the class. The button thing is secondary ....
errant trail
hey what else are you guys picking if you dont use Master Assass
exotic hazel
hey what else are you guys picking if you dont use Master Assass
Raid:
slim hamlet
I took imp poisons instead of MA
exotic hazel
hey what else are you guys picking if you dont use Master Assass
M+
slim hamlet
MA maybe better but sounds so dogshit in m+ without dance
errant trail
@exotic hazel You really dont like Middle capstone
Its not much dmg is it?
alot of people say poison bomb sucks
hexed matrix
Am I wrong to think nelf racial for keys will continue to feel BIS?
exotic hazel
<@302099743453216768> You really dont like Middle capstone
Only go down the middle if you're going full poison route which is kinda bad in low keys
slim hamlet
I don't think I have ever heard someone say pb sucks
slim hamlet
Am I wrong to think nelf racial for keys will continue to feel BIS?
nelf is bis even if it didn't interact with stealth if you do really high keys so
errant trail
nelf is bis
slim hamlet
otherwise dwarf but we got cloak
errant trail
Only go down the middle if you're going full poison route which is kinda bad in ...
low keys as in 12 and lower right?
hexed matrix
I figured. Just wanted to confirm.... nelf forever
slim hamlet
low keys as in where target doesn't survive DM+KB probably
Or where you don't need more ST dmg
exotic hazel
low keys as in where target doesn't survive DM+KB probably
This ^
errant trail
yeah this really is the issue
exotic hazel
Yeah I generally don't mind it anyways
I did have an idea a while back of IC making your next Rupture be an enhanced CT
Rather than it's own thing
errant trail
Ive noticed
in low keys
CT is a must no matter what
you just set it off and it does very good dmg
fleet pagoda
yeah ST is great in pushing .io but if you're a class that dunks on overall, send it for overall and let somebody else do the prio (mage )
errant trail
it lasts a long time tbh
exotic hazel
I can't put into words how happy I am that IC is now a passive, and that Sudden Demise is a thing
Considering the last time I played Assa properly was S1 of DF
Such a huge QoL change
errant trail
spec def has come along way
i was actually enjoying shadow dance alot
but its ok they just need to get rid of slice n dice
slim hamlet
Dance was definitely poggers
exotic hazel
I get all the reasons why Dance is good
I just personally don't like it for Assa 😂
Main reason being it's just another button to press that affects our rotation/cooldowns etc which I love as is
shadow lintel
does someone has a build for assa m+ for beta?
exotic hazel
does someone has a build for assa m+ for beta?
CMQA27SZpS4XnmFfcXRqkppuwbMjZmxMWmBAAAAAgZbwyMAAAAAA022MzwDMzgZmZZWGMGzYmZmZmZsttMmBAAAAAAA
twin forum
Why does
#showtooltip Envenom
/cast [Cold Blood]
/cast Envenom
not work in deathstalker build? like i have it, just does not work as macro
nimble vector
why does it have [] there, should work without it I'm pretty sure
knotty radish
Where’s that noob whispyr? 🍺
twin forum
It does not work even without brackets
spice surge
Why does
#showtooltip Envenom
/cast [Cold Blood]
/cast Envenom
not work in dea...
Brackets shouldnt be there, but otherwise its probably because its either on your stealth bar or not on your stealth bar because it should work
twin forum
im trying it now on beta, not sure if anyone else is on, but apparently my macro does not work when im playing with deathstalkker hero talents, and with fatebound it works when i get 2 stacks
slim hamlet
Definitely sounds like you don't have the macro on your bars for deathstalker
spice surge
Oh ye right, theres a bug with the fatebound talent changing the spellID
slim hamlet
Oh no
spice surge
I dont remember what the solution was for the macros though
twin forum
nimble vector
Do you have a space somewhere it shouldn't be? Works fine for me on deathstalker
nimble vector
im trying it now on beta, not sure if anyone else is on, but apparently my macro...
just tested on fatebound as well without changing macro and it worked for both hero talents 
north frost
Make Rogue Great Again
ashen scroll
so is it intentional that i cant re-apply deathstalker stacks with ER'd envenoms? please say its a bug
errant trail
rogue feels significantly better in beta
but its got a way to go
deathstalker still
errant trail
so is it intentional that i cant re-apply deathstalker stacks with ER'd envenoms...
bug
ashen scroll
ok thank fuck
errant trail
trust its really poo
ashen scroll
i dont mind the playstyle tbh. idk about the dmg but i'd rather be marking stuff than throwing coins. ig its a fantasy thing tho
errant trail
dwe
dw
deathstalker will be atleast playable on launch
blizz cant be this horrid
slate crown
so is it intentional that i cant re-apply deathstalker stacks with ER'd envenoms...
To clarify, we do not know for sure if it is a bug. It may be intentional, it may be a bug. It seems like a bug but it could be read as intentional. It is not clear. I hope it's seen as a bug, but there's not a guarantee it will be adjusted from current behavior. I suspect that it will be fixed to work with consuming the marks (to progress it towards darkest night) but it cannot be used to proc Darkest Night envenoms. But, we have no confirmation on their intention (that I know of)
river flint
i dont mind the playstyle tbh. idk about the dmg but i'd rather be marking stuff...
i get fatebound as outlaw tree bc they are already some kinda rng gamblers gameplaywise and gold coins with skulls and stuff seems pirate-y, but idk how it relates to assarogues tbh
ashen scroll
ya i hope we can use ER to proc darkest night else the entire spec feels clunky tbh
ashen scroll
i get fatebound as outlaw tree bc they are already some kinda rng gamblers gamep...
i hit the dummy for a bit and had fatebound coin tails as 18% of my dmg. 2nd highest %. like dude what is going on LMAO
river flint
idk, rogue-math, works differently apparently
id be surprised if new rogue talents werent hammered to direction or the other every patch, itll be a mess at launch, but maybe some broken builds can be fun zerg in bgs
royal lantern
i get fatebound as outlaw tree bc they are already some kinda rng gamblers gamep...
fatebound is less rng then rogue is rn mate lol
people dont realise how much RNG rogue is on all 3 specs in Dragonflight, its funny af
20%+ dmg variance 
river flint
yeee well thats tru
even outlaw is blamed for roll the bones bc "rng" but like with correct procs and crits its 3-4 times sustained damage even without bones
idk if ass is worse than ol or sub tho
the bleeds are pretty stable in comparison
royal lantern
mate
just no
first of all, RTB is fuckall in RNG overall
the normal procs have way more influence on outlaw then RTB ever did outside of legion
and assa/sub have gigantic swing simply because their dmg is rn all compressed into windows and that we have 20000 rng factors in the game that can make those windows even stronger
weapon enchant proc during Kingsbane? GG, you won
balmy condor
i hit the dummy for a bit and had fatebound coin tails as 18% of my dmg. 2nd hig...
that's insanely high
it should be around 10-11%
river flint
and assa/sub have gigantic swing simply because their dmg is rn all compressed i...
yeh well thats what im saying, in regards to procs, but idk playing assa just feels sm more stable dmg wise on st compared to sub or ol
I mean ofc there are exceptions
ashen scroll
that's insanely high
1:07 combat time. i just played normally like i would in DF. didnt really research a new rotation or anything. just rng i guess
was 16% not 18% but still
nimble vector
1:07 is just very low sample size, if you have a big chain in the opener it will be very overrepresented compared to a 5 min fight
ashen scroll
ya it wasnt a long pull, i was jsut messing with the dummy and feel out the hero talents
balmy condor
And then you won’t see tails at all
river flint
If this stays, fatebound could be a win in quick pulls and pvp, but the idea of building all the way to capstone is not as likely, besides, the capstone is kinda meg
Meh*
esp since it discourages other finishing moves
not being able to use slice n dice or etc bc of mean streak is situationally very annoying
spice surge
Why would you not be able to use slice and dice
And why would you want to use slice and dice when you could just envenom
river flint
i mean you can use it but it encourages you to smash envenom for quickly smashing into higher stacks of heads
plush arch
if you don't wanna flip, just snd on 4cp xd
river flint
Im not saying its bad but just annoying
In long encounters especially
I still like fatebound more but im not sure how itll feel after playing it for long
spice surge
I have no idea what youre talking about
Theres nothing you play around with fatebound
Why would it be annoying
grim jay
Theres nothing you play around with fatebound
thats the thing
they are cooking high rolls on low timers
woeful meteor
river flint
<a:HUHH:1170286990005108766>
yeah i mean, what im sceptical about is the flow of getting lucky and getting more cp, and then hitting envenom again and again
I dunno, i havent played it in a boss or smth
Just sounds kind of restricting
rotund oak
river flint
Maybe im overthinking it but im gonna wait how it turns out
balmy condor
I don’t know what that means though
balmy condor
Getting more cp and hitting envenom is legit just the rotation
We generate and then spend
rotund oak
brother,fatebound is as consistent and steady a flow as a spec can get,u get extra cp,u dump them,its more dmg
there is no downside to that
literally
balmy condor
We already finish at 5 or more cp with or without fatebound
So there’s nothing restricting there either
I’m just confused what “flow of getting lucky” you’re seeing
grim jay
its probably the good old "win-lose" mindset with the flips
and not the actual "win-win"
normal mist
and not the actual "win-win"
This time, we're the House. And the House always wins
rotund oak
<:PogO:1160145144872435792>
river flint
its probably the good old "win-lose" mindset with the flips
ye well this is a good point tbh, i do kinda look at the stacking effect with capstone in mind, which is kinda meh anyway
balmy condor
You get the agi from the capstone 20-30 seconds into the fight and then you’re winning
Sometimes you get unlucky and it takes a min or whatever
But it be like that
Not like you can really control it
rotund oak
ye well this is a good point tbh, i do kinda look at the stacking effect with ca...
shouldnt overthink of it,it is what it is,it starts and ends and resets
its a designed routine
river flint
I know my boys
guilty as charged 
vivid seal
in beta, do we still want to shiv/tea during KB or just last 6 seconds?
errant trail
whispyr so i went the build no one likes to go
but since its tyran i figured it was usual to be a prio dmg build
worked out well
balmy condor
in beta, do we still want to shiv/tea during KB or just last 6 seconds?
Shiv covers the whole kb, tea during shiv if you won’t overcap energy
balmy condor
whispyr so i went the build no one likes to go
Idk what that means send a pic
vivid seal
so shiv needs to be up throughout the KB got it.
nimble vector
@balmy condor yo why is the beta sim using the on use trinket at 23s and not actually getting the buff until 32s
balmy condor
<@167090536602140682> yo why is the beta sim using the on use trinket at 23s and...
Which trinket
balmy condor
Because it’s implemented like that
There’s an rng delay in sims because you have to do the mini game
I have implementation for it locally
vivid seal
Shiv covers the whole kb, tea during shiv if you won’t overcap energy
is it the same with aoe? after u spread bleeds you still want shiv throughout KB?
balmy condor
Yes
vivid seal
cool thanks!
balmy condor
Np
vernal hatch
if we have blindside, can you always use it at 5 instead of finishing
since i think it only gives 2
if it procs seal fate
normal mist
if you have 5 just slam a finisher
balmy condor
It gives 2 baseline, seal fate would be 3
So yeah, if you have 5 you finish
Spec also generally rewards more finishers, not higher quality finishers
So little incentive to go higher
normal mist
can go up to 4 with talents
balmy condor
Not really
normal mist
can go up to 4 with talents
4 if seal of fate
balmy condor
hi, its good talents ?
Double vanish sucks, shadow heart sucks, master assassin sucks, you’re not taking crimson tempest, also not taking iron wire, and the build as a whole is insanely heavy single target so unless you’re doing +16’s or +17’s (which I assume you’re not), the tree isn’t gonna even do much
balmy condor
4 if seal of fate
2 base, 1 with improved ambush which is how you’re getting 3, then seal fate is 4
normal mist
Exactly :3
atomic spear
Double vanish sucks, shadow heart sucks, master assassin sucks, you’re not takin...
What talents do you recommend I use? I'm having trouble playing with Crimson Tempest.
balmy condor
I recommend the wowhead guide
normal mist
I recommend the wowhead guide
You made me giggle
grim jay
Exactly :3
atomic spear
Mythic+ Bleed
Mythic+ Hybrid
Mythic+ Cleave
who better ?
potent raven
it says there like just read?
errant trail
can i be honest with you @atomic spear
Cleave feels good in ST
bleed is good aoe mass AOE and fort
but this is my opinion
atomic spear
For doing Mythic+ and being versatile, which one should I choose?
normal mist
any of the 3
they have information about every single one of them
you can just read and decide which fits your better
potent raven
🤔
oblique jackal
Depends on a lot of factors which build is better. Do you want to focus more on ST/FOcus dmg bc others in your group can carry the aoe damage
You can always sim all three and see which is better numbers wise. Then see which one you feel plays better for you.
balmy condor
You’re not gonna get much out of a sim
unborn wharf
just to double check this is the opener for assassin with deathstalker on single target yeah?
(ambush got cut off in the log lol)
like basically identical but we ambush and move echoing to after snd?
balmy condor
Yes
But there should be a second shiv at the end
And I have my doubts that tea should be there
I mean macroing it is already incorrect by default
But just the timing itself
Probably ain’t it
unborn wharf
ah yeah my second shiv was a second off or so
dont we wanna tea the first shiv just to get the cooldown rolling?
or nah?
balmy condor
Yeh I guess
errant trail
apparently you only tea if you need energy in your shiv/kingbane window?
balmy condor
It’s not too big of a deal
errant trail
i mean i always just tea after 6sec of KB still
balmy condor
But you should try and get some energy from it
So holding it a couple seconds for that to mut a couple times
long island
can someone show me their dmg breakdown in details after a m+ run
balmy condor
i mean i always just tea after 6sec of KB still
Don’t
errant trail
just play reg?
balmy condor
Like the tea should be during shiv
But the main thing is getting energy
Doesn’t have to be at the start
quiet flax
I have a question about the aoe rotation in m +. After applying bleeds and ruptures to multiple targets on the opener, and then executing a DM/KB burst on a single target with caustic splatter for aoe, then what do we do? Do we continue to rotate through targets (re)applying more garrotes and ruptures or tend to focus on a single target and rely upon envenom and caustic splatter for the aoe?
unborn wharf
Like the tea should be during shiv
you thinking like somewhere here or here after some builders for that first tea?
balmy condor
you thinking like somewhere here or here after some builders for that first tea?
The first arrow is totally fine
Even after that first mut is fine
You’re just high on energy after casting er env dm shiv kb
Those all cost basically nothing
So just burn a bit and then tea
balmy condor
I have a question about the aoe rotation in m +. After applying bleeds and rupt...
Maintain ct and bleeds for energy and envenom your caustic target
unborn wharf
ok cool gotcha. we do definitely want to get at least 1 tea out during the first cooldowns, just can be more optimal with it
hollow oasis
you said earlier that shiv now covers all of KB, how tho? im trying to find it on beta and it still says 8s vs 14s of KB, im missing something? really want to get back to rogue
balmy condor
2 charges
unborn wharf
you said earlier that shiv now covers all of KB, how tho? im trying to find it o...
2 charges of shiv
16 seconds of shiv uptime
unborn wharf
for the second shiv, does the tea duration matter for when you can use it?
Like if the shiv buff is 3 seconds remaining I wouldnt tea at that point for the 3 seconds of mastery buff that would be outside of shiv there
would you only tea the second shiv at most 2 seconds after using the second shiv
unborn wharf
yeye ok cool that makes sense
chrome rivet
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
silver crag
!dagger
prisma monolithBOT
blazing plaza
best race for assa rogue in tww?
late surge
whichever one looks the best
normal mist
best race for assa rogue in tww?
Whichever race looks better on the transmogs for you :3
tardy parrot
hi all! looking for an ONLY envenom buff/debuff ICON (not bar) tracker Weakaura! to minmax uptime. and also a kingsbane counter would be nice. i had it back ion legion, cant find it atm. ty
spice surge
hi all! looking for an ONLY envenom buff/debuff ICON (not bar) tracker Weakaura!...
I'd recommend the premade auras function
gleaming spire
best race for assa rogue in tww?
Gnome
balmy condor
vulpera for front flips
lean plover
Undead lock sick as rogues
blazing plaza
asking dps wise
unborn wharf
goblin bis stealth animation
prisma monolithBOT
Stealth can break from:
- Evoker legendary buff expiring and bouncing back to the Evoker.
- Ominous Chromatic Essence trinket on buff gain
- Voice of the Silent Star when wearing it yourself
- Misterweaver soothing mist when talented into Unison
- Blossom of Amirdrassil (trinket) initial hot dropping/spreading
- Vicious brand (Signet trinket self damage)
slim hamlet
Guessing it doesn't exist anymore then
balmy condor
what undead bug
scenic ridge
Evening guys, may i ask if Night elf is "that strong" for assa rogue? im playing Blood elf at the moment and it's still time to change if needed 🙂
blazing plaza
so probably dwarf for high m+
scenic ridge
Thanks guys, have a nice evening
normal mist
Thanks guys, have a nice evening
You too, take care mate
slim hamlet
what undead bug
Apparently the racial dmg proc could pull you out of stealth randomly
Saw people talk about it when people were talking about the Sarc cloak
sand jewel
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
balmy condor
Apparently the racial dmg proc could pull you out of stealth randomly
interesting
tardy parrot
hi all! looking for an ONLY envenom buff/debuff ICON (not bar) tracker Weakaura!...
https://wago.io/PFTo3o6Ug
kinda what i meant. this is very cool!
and you can cut the envenom buff from the verydearkind @balmy condor s Afenar edit WA. cheers!
balmy condor
entirely unnecessary
but I guess if you want to see the number go up
more power to you
slim hamlet
interesting
Never saw or tested it myself, just kept it in my noodle since I saw people talk about it in here
tardy parrot
entirely unnecessary
its for visual epenis obviously ^^
balmy condor
meow
slim hamlet
WUFF
balmy condor
I'm sure the other specs have plenty of jank too
balmy condor
it has a note for master assa and shrouded towards the bottom
there's no other interactions
hollow river
i think cheap isn't working with subt but that's more a pvp thing anyway
hollow river
yeah
balmy condor
I can add it
hollow river
for outlaw it's Ambush and Cheap
hollow river
errant trail
so caustic spatter bugs on live sometimes
errant trail
it just happened again earlier
balmy condor
bugs how
balmy condor
on beta we only ambush in opener as deathstalker?
correct
hollow river
aighty fix
balmy condor
it just happened again earlier
if it's dropping randomly I will need videos or logs or anything at all
errant trail
it literally just won’t apply
balmy condor
we spent a combined 16 hours of manpower trying to replicate that stupid fucking caustic dropping
errant trail
i have to go outside
balmy condor
and couldn't find it
errant trail
and reset my shit
and then go back in
it’s like bugged legendaries in shadowlands a
fucking shit
balmy condor
I need all the steps
you did
talent
what dungeon
what pull
legit every fucking minutia
errant trail
because it’s DOG when it happens
balmy condor
and couldn't replicate it
errant trail
i’m not the only one
balmy condor
that's what I need you for
haughty flicker
its been reported before
errant trail
next time it happens i will vod
balmy condor
run logs as well
balmy condor
and we're still Fatebound for M+?
as of now yes
but I'm cooking
so
probably not for long
(fatebound is like 4% ahead I think I can't cook that hard)
exotic hazel
In ST I assume Deathstalker is still marginally ahead though?
balmy condor
hard to tell
there's a lot of stuff not functional atm in sims that would give us a better picture
dashing for example is broken in sims
slim hamlet
We will see when they randomly buff deathstalker by 5% next week again
exotic hazel
Fingers crossed it comes down to preference over meta
balmy condor
We will see when they randomly buff deathstalker by 5% next week again
the 5% buff they're gonna give deathstalker is making fatal intent actually work maybe
haughty flicker
its always down to preference and just play what you like
or its never down to preference and chase numbers
exotic hazel
I'd say <5% ish is where I'd say it's a preference call for me
As in the gap between the hero talents
balmy condor
it's probably gonna be in that range