assassination

[quiet oar]

[balmy condor]

10% envenom damage won't buff the tier, tier is just flat damage so it doesn't interact with stuff, gg

[quiet oar]

Didnt Wowhead write on some point that Class Sets get deactivted ???

[balmy condor]

same trigger, different buffs

[balmy condor]

some class sets did

(the ones that are now replaced)

[quiet oar]

Wowheaded baited me

[balmy condor]

ours always worked

[quiet oar]

Im not sure in which article, but in 1 article for the prepatch there was a disclaimer that tsets were disabled

thats why i was confused

[raven egret]

Wowhead? Bait articles? Nooooo waaaayyy

[runic hinge]

[hoary remnant]

Would it be worth using an addition vanish charge to guarantee another two coin flips of the same?

[raven egret]

No, because the coin will flip itself regardless, and taking ER instead means more coin flips

Quantity of flips > "RNG manipulation" flips

[balmy condor]

Prepatch/Beta Info

Talents
Note that prepatch talents are listed here. Beta has the same builds, fatebound/deathstalker don’t change them. Simply add the hero talents on top. See the wowhead talent page for more info

Raid

For AoE, talent into Caustic:
CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMjZmhZmxyMAAAAAAMbwyMAAAAAA022MzwDMzYMzMLz2YMGMzMzMzYmNbjZAAAABgAAA

Mythic+

These are in order from most bleed to most poison, which is also the general order of recommendation

Bleed (recommended): CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwMjZmxMWmBAAAAAgZD2mBAAAAAg22mZGegZGjZmZZWGMGzMmZmZmZsttMmBAAAEACAA

Hybrid (can also be played with Amp instead of SBS):
CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYmZMzMmxyMAAAAAAMbw2MAAAAAA022MzwDMzYMzMLzyYMYmZmZwMzsttMmBAAAEACAA

Cleave (NOT RECOMMENDED since it’s too reliant on having a very high key level for mobs to survive your burst, can also be played with amp instead of crimson tempest):
CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwMjZmxMWmBAAAAAgZD2mBAAAAAg22mZGegZGjZmZZWGjxYMmZmZGzsttMmBAAAEACAA

Rotation

• Echoing Reprimand on cooldown. Do not force yourself to an empowered combo point. Play naturally and let it happen
• Due to the loss of dance and nerf to kingsbane:
• do not vanish the last 3 seconds of Kingsbane
• if you won't overcap on energy, use tea with shiv instead of the last 5 seconds of kingsbane
• Finish on 5+ cp. Remember that we have a max of 7 now
• Pooling rules don't change until the removal of the tier set with the new expansion
• In mythic+ the loss of dance won't make too much of a difference. Remember to utilize all the tools available, such as CT, caustic, and scent of blood. You'll be fine, chain pulling is always better dps due to the uptime increase

Stats

Still as always crit = mastery >= haste > vers. All secondaries are insanely close, and item level is better in 99% of cases.

Gear

It’s all the same as last season, tier, grieftorch, ashes, item level, no big spiel needed go read a guide

Wowhead/Icyveins are updated

There was a big formatting change on the wowhead side of things, and I had to rewrite the vast majority of the guide. If there's something confusing or further clarification is needed, please don't hesitate to ping me for it. I want the wowhead guide to stand as the answer to any and every question. Thank you

[raven egret]

The RNG is stacked in our favor either way

[hoary remnant]

Ok but in theory you could with using vanish charges manipulate the outcome correct?

just for a short amount of time

not saying its optimal just saying you can manipulate the outcome

[raven egret]

I mean, sure, I suppose

[hoary remnant]

This could be a tier set angle in the possible future. Since it could fix the "we dont feel any impact of our hero talent tree"

[quiet oar]

wait

finish at 5/7 so no 6 cp?

[raven egret]

I can also cook past due date meat, but that won't make it good

[quiet oar]

or is this a 5/6/7

[hoary remnant]

Again not talking good here just the theory. 😄

[balmy condor]

Well obviously if you’re at 6 you’d also finish

[quiet oar]

Ok

5-7 owuld be more obvious tbf

maybe its just me

[runic hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/well-obviously-sassy-gif-5444908

[raven egret]

I always finish within 6-- wait nevermind

[raven egret]

Cleave build dies as soon as we really lose our current tier set right

No way spatter alone is enough after that's gone

[balmy condor]

Yeah idk in my head it’s like PAINFULLY obvious that if someone says finish on 4/6 they mean at minimum 4/6, but I reworded it

[balmy condor]

Nah it’s still good

[hoary remnant]

On some raid fights it will have to do.

[raven egret]

Yeah I'm not saying for light cleave, meant for M+

The tier set was covering a lot of the DMG in aoe

[quiet oar]

For me the "/" is an or

[balmy condor]

Cleave build probably gains popularity next expac tbh

[quiet oar]

idk why

like 5 or 7

[balmy condor]

Oh interesting

[quiet oar]

5+ is most obvious

[normal mist]

Agreed

[hoary remnant]

That also depends on the dungeon and what comp your running.

[shadow badger]

y is cleave not reccomended for m+ anymore

[balmy condor]

Cause it never was

[shadow badger]

oops i was running it on tyrans lol

[balmy condor]

Cleave was for sweaty nerds playing +79 keys and tunnel visioning on their prio damage

[raven egret]

I mean I used it, it was doing perfectly fine. I just really don't think it can compete at the same level without the tier, I don't see how

[balmy condor]

Okay

[raven egret]

Yeah ok to be clear I was not using it on low keys

[shadow badger]

i was using it in like +16s i was doing fine. coulda been doing better though by the sound of it. lol.

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s gonna be more approachable with kb nerf, but the tier isn’t why it’s good lmao

Tier is just flat damage regardless of build

[shadow badger]

bone spike in the hybrid build is BIG POG

[raven egret]

Nah I know, but it did contribute into the overall aoe enough to compensate the loss of CT, at least I think 🤔

I mean I'll try anything once we in TWW anyway!

[shadow badger]

questions though. why do we not vanish the last 3 seconds of KB anymore, and why do we not shiv till the last 5 seconds of KB now.

[balmy condor]

It definitely didn’t

[balmy condor]

Cause kingsbane got nerfed, and cause you read it wrong

[shadow badger]

i did read it wrong. ig the KB nerf merits using tea with shiv instead of the final ticks of kb somehow.

[balmy condor]

Correct

[shadow badger]

nice

did they say why kb nerf so hard

[runic hinge]

Because we became kb the spec the last two patches and they wanted to take power out of it

[shadow badger]

cringe

[runic hinge]

Also it reduces variance

[shadow badger]

kb big pog

[runic hinge]

Sure but then you only care about your kb window and don’t do anything else outside it

[sick radish]

so is vanish used just to refresh empowered garrote in opener?

[raven egret]

With +10s being fortified AND tyrannical, I wonder which build will feel better now

[runic hinge]

Dtb no amp

[balmy condor]

Yes

[jaunty dew]

@balmy condor Thanks for the video man, was nice to see some insights into the talent trees, I just wish SBS was more accessible without sacrificing our Garrote talent for the bleed build

[midnight atlas]

Good bye serated bone spike, you had the coolest animation even though you were clunky to use

[balmy condor]

Yeah doomblade pretty stinky

[raven egret]

I'll be curious to see how many uses of iron wire we'll be able to effectively get per keys

[quiet oar]

@clever sapphire Last day of OG Bonespike

[runic hinge]

Shiii. I didn’t even go cast it

Get stuck in combat on the dummy and get unable to log out

[raven egret]

[balmy condor]

Minimally less

[grim jay]

Wait for the no IW gang to rise

[raven egret]

They'll come with their no IC sister gang?

Under the no stealth conglomerate

[grim jay]

I can see some joining that

[grim jay]

If you have pulls big enough to fully utilize the 6s it should be about the same or maybe even higher, no?

Since you didnt use most of your dance for redotting

Often

[raven egret]

It's more about chain pulling and less ways to trigger it in those circumstances I think

[grim jay]

Yeah if you chainpull you will have less

Potentially

[raven egret]

I can sorta understand the argument, what other class has nodes that are context sensitive enough that you might not get to use them when you need it

Then again, in a fully organized group that should be less of a concern

[grim jay]

Dunno, maybe just a result of people hating the actual active skill of IC

So they had to tie it to something

[raven egret]

Yep, but stealth being what it is, means nodes value varies, and not in the same way any other class nodes vary. Which I think fuels a lot of the angst against the stealth based abilities

[clever sapphire]

its still flying towards terros no worries

cast it on thursday

[grim jay]

I think it wouldnt be half as bad if they just had an actual node instead of the subter and 2nd vanish charge. If subter applied noteworthy bonuses it would already be better and changing the 2nd vanish charge to halving vanish CD would add a lot of value/QoL

In a way that subter doesnt need to be too strong on its own since the vanish CD node would double its value

And you would have more access to the stuff people like (IC)

[runic hinge]

Vanish on 1 min cd would make the pvp community cry so hard

all 8 of them

[grim jay]

Valid point, but I dont think it would be an issue for them to tune it separately

[quiet oar]

im not sure if 8 people play pvp

ngl

[runic hinge]

I used to only play wow for the pvp and I didn’t even get 1800 in s3 or 4 cause I can’t be bothered

[grim jay]

I think there are quite some actually, its not as dead as some make it out to be usually

[vale lantern]

How are we feeling @balmy condor not looking numbers wise but feeling gameplay wise?

[quiet oar]

tbh

pvp needs to be a different play mode

like they did with Plunderstorm

and i think it can be "good" again

[grim jay]

I mean ffxiv did something similar

Where your skills are somewhat different

And pvp there is as dead as acro

[royal lantern]

tbf, ff14 pvp is a even bigger meme then wow pvp lol

[grim jay]

Yeah ik and its partly because they did what they did and dont care further

Its way more work aswell

[balmy condor]

Exactly the same as the last year

[worldly nebula]

How much Copium is it, to hope for more changes?

[rotund oak]

from 1 to 10,10 being foreverguy in terms or supressed rage,how should we feel about deathstalker right now

[balmy condor]

Small tweaks and stuff sure

Man idk like a 6?

[rotund oak]

[balmy condor]

Gotta answer the same questions every week with no changes

As if my answer is gonna be different

[runic hinge]

I think things get better in the .5 patch. (I’m gone off the cope)

[grim jay]

Didnt you give it a solid 4 the other day

[balmy condor]

Brother idk

Ain’t it enough to just say it’s shit

Why do I gotta grade it on some imaginary rubric

[vale lantern]

Same as last year I can deal with that

[worldly nebula]

Idk man rogue just looks boring compared to what others are getting

[balmy condor]

Correct

[grim jay]

You know people are obsessed with those numbers and letters

[balmy condor]

That’s not changing

[grim jay]

Mage aside I didnt find anything particularly appealing

Visually

[vale lantern]

I was just watching your video im also kind of excited to try out bone spike

[worldly nebula]

Visually??

You play spec x for visuals?

[balmy condor]

Visuals go a long way with the feeling of a class

So yeah

[grim jay]

Yeah nothing "looked" interesting.
Gameplay-wise its whatever on the hero talent side, sin is better than ever

Gameplay is the whole package not just hero talents

So its still up there in terms of fun imo

[balmy condor]

My biggest hopium is we can get some targeted tweaks around pooling

Would be insano cringe to talent rapid injection and sang blades and then play around neither

[grim jay]

Yeah thats true, idk what I'd rather play around tho

[rotund oak]

nimble flurry

[normal mist]

Imagine not playing to feel cool

[rotund oak]

or wait thats sub

[grim jay]

I only feel cool with you guys

[worldly nebula]

Like idk i played a DK alt and if im comparing them dk just got more love. So im hopin they give us some love so i dont feel pressured into swapping main

[normal mist]

This isn't a job xD

[balmy condor]

Only option is playing around rapid injection

[rotund oak]

DK is a monster in beta

[normal mist]

I mean it is for Whispyr

[rotund oak]

frost is actualy poggers

[balmy condor]

Sanguine cannot be the core gameplay mechanic

By definition

[rotund oak]

and UH pumps

[balmy condor]

:)

[worldly nebula]

fk dmg numbers they are always non final

[balmy condor]

I work twice as much for wow than I do irl, and get paid like a 3rd the amount

Very cool

[rotund oak]

yeah thats true but still feels right

[grim jay]

Sanguine would probably feel like it just cuts your energy in two and thats it

[balmy condor]

And that’s why it can’t be the move

Sang can only exist if you have a reason to be below 50% sometimes

Rapid injection and the tier are those reasons atm

[worldly nebula]

Yea UH might me the play but idk. I dont want to

[worldly nebula]

But im a meta slave.

[rotund oak]

i feel sry for you man

its either mage or rogue for me

[balmy condor]

My condolences, I was bad once too

[rotund oak]

[normal mist]

[grim jay]

I do agree that dk is great now, they had really good changes, wouldnt necessarily call it more fun tho

But I personally dont like the riders hero tree either

And people seem to love it

So im probably just weird on the dk side

[grim jay]

I always wanna play arcane if I play mage but it had some annoying iterations

Thats why I dropped it most of the time

And its ranged

[worldly nebula]

I was ranged once. Then I found melee and never went back

[rotund oak]

im going fire most likely,might apply on a CE guild soon but im not rly that hyped jsut yet

and mage can never go wrong

[normal mist]

Man, everyone (my friends specifically) know me for playing rogue, I AM the guild's rogue. And it clicks with me, I could never be a meta slave

[grim jay]

Many guilds are currently looking for rogues

[worldly nebula]

Prob bcs many just abandoned the sinking ship

[grim jay]

Probably because fotm is increasingly popular*

(nothing bad, power to everyone having fun in their way)

[rotund oak]

they all lost their minds

[worldly nebula]

Its just the state of the game, at least for the top end

[grim jay]

Maybe they stole all the rogue copium

[rotund oak]

my brain tells me when they realize how strong DK is rogues gonna benchwarm

[grim jay]

Thats not really the case unless you mean rwf or close to it

[worldly nebula]

I did

[grim jay]

Well tuning still not final and people are stuck on atro being good

[grim jay]

Then its irrelevant for 99% anyways

[rotund oak]

whatever the tuning is,outside coinflippin' sin the other two specs/trees got srs issues

coup bugs like a mfker

outlaw is just dead

deathstalker is so cringe i wanna pull my eyes out of my eyesockets

idk maybe sub

[normal mist]

I wonder if there are any casual rogues here like me, I feel like the amount of CE raiders in this discord is over the top, and rarely do I see people just doing their normal / heroic raids and be like "yeah, this is what I want to do"

[rotund oak]

maaaaaybe

[grim jay]

Sub is playable, just not particularly smooth or great

[quiet oar]

I dont think rogue is a class you play casually

because open world stuff

is just so bad as rogue

[normal mist]

Idk

I feel fine

[quiet oar]

but you dont have casual gear

you have like 520+

[normal mist]

I'm 517

[quiet oar]

casuals are prolly more at 510

[normal mist]

I played for 3 weeks

[quiet oar]

and obv S4 open world is whatever

Like soloing rares

as Rogue

is harder than any other class

Because you cant use your DMG CD (Vanish)

[normal mist]

Idk, wanna know why?

Because I don't play other classes

And I never really had problems soloing rares, unless they are meant to be killed by more than one player

[normal mist]

I do usually end up the season at 6/6 hero + 4/4 myth items which means mythic ilvl

[quiet oar]

Ye

[normal mist]

With no mythic raiding, just m+ luck

[quiet oar]

But Casuals are like 500 ilvl

and cant press buttons

Why would you play rogue

when you can

[normal mist]

Because sneaky sneaky

[quiet oar]

wait

wrong gif

https://tenor.com/view/how-iplaysmash-gif-5006024

play ret like that

[bronze pike]

Accurate

[normal mist]

But there's no dance in that

[quiet oar]

huh

[normal mist]

Idk I feel like assassination is like a dance

[quiet oar]

Ye

[normal mist]

There's a motive on your keyboard presses

[quiet oar]

but you ahve to know how to dance

why other classes are just button smash

[normal mist]

Not just it's flashing, press it

[quiet oar]

and you get decent dmg

[normal mist]

That personally does not make me feel good

A good rogue can be a good ret, but a good ret might find trouble being a good rogue

[open reef]

so Sbspike + EReprimend are must be for raids ?

from tomorrow ?

[normal mist]

Whispyr pinned builds moments ago

If you haven't, check those

[neat plank]

!sheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torn swan]

I see that chain pulling is now is thing? 😄

My tank will be happy

[balmy condor]

It’s been a thing since legion

You tank should ideally never be letting you restealth

Unless they need the iron wire ofc

But that’s usually a big pack where you have time to gather yourself anyway

[royal lantern]

????

thats 6buttons lol

[torn swan]

I agree when chain pulling leaves like 3/4 mobs behind with all the dots stacking, but what if, for instance, the tank leave just 1 add half alive and pull? still worth?

[balmy condor]

Yes, but remember that sbs is passive so it’s kinda whatever

[neat plank]

interesting, I see the paladin ability Echoing Reprimand is now part of assa build... yeah I'm not taking that 😛

[balmy condor]

Then you call the tank a shitter for chain pulling like a demented cow

[balmy condor]

Cold blood instead then

[torn swan]

Thanks for the tip! And thanks again for your hard work 🙂

[neat plank]

sounds good, I enjoy cold blood ;>

[balmy condor]

But yes, even if your tank is fully comatose and braindead

[royal lantern]

sucks for everyone tbh, cus thats a tank that sucks at chainpulling then and doesnt know what they are doing

just gotta manualy dot then

[balmy condor]

It’s still worse

Chaining is huge

The main way to time save in m+ is to avoid slowly pulling one pack at a time

So if your tank is chaining at like 5% left, or 1 mob left or whatever

That’s a tank issue

[quiet oar]

With movement keys

yes

[royal lantern]

he is basically pulling single packs

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[royal lantern]

not your problem then

you do nothing wrong

[balmy condor]

At that point he’s just hurting the entire group

[torn swan]

Yes I agree, I have nothing against chain pulling packs like this. I remember the Ardeweald part of DoS, it was such a pleasure!

[royal lantern]

like, sure, you pulled big, people are out of stuff and healer is low mana= you take it slow for the next pack

but the "pack at 5%? lets go and pull 3 more enemys now" is just not your problem at that point, you can legit blame the tank

[balmy condor]

Yeah the end of mists is easy to chain

Best thing to do is try and educate your tank

Like there’s always a scary caster in a pack

You cd that one, it does

No more scary casters

At that point you’re good to chain

[royal lantern]

getting a guild tank addicted to Iron Wire

[torn swan]

My GM loves it

[balmy condor]

So when the scary thing that’s making the pack difficult is at like 15%, the tank should already be moving

No point wasting time dealing with the scraps of a pull that don’t pose a threat to the group

[grim jay]

Demented cow

Ig its fair if people dont really know about the value and impact of chainpulling

Barely any random tank does it

[quiet oar]

well

they do

[grim jay]

Even on higher than weekly keys

[quiet oar]

at 3% pack life

[royal lantern]

i mean, sure, but at that point just do single pulls lol

[quiet oar]

[grim jay]

Ye

[quiet oar]

thats why bolsterin was a rogue affix

[royal lantern]

like, man, single pull dangerous packs and outside of that pull 2-3 togheter->all you need to do

[normal mist]

Or just have the tank tell the rogue " you were born for this, obliterate mob X while I chain pull" I got goosebumps typing that

It's like calling you a good boy

[royal lantern]

and them you have xXxSkillidänxXx jumping into the next pack when the current one still has a plague caster at 40% hp and the healer is at 30% mana, and then writes "INTERUPTS?????" When you wipe

[grim jay]

Here I thought frost dks would obliterate

[normal mist]

We can as well, brrrrrr

[quiet oar]

or he dies while jumping 100 yds away

and writes

"HOW ABOUT HEAL ????????"

[royal lantern]

"jumps into a pack and dies in 3seconds"

HEALER??????

[quiet oar]

Typical DH mistake

every DH tank does

Jump -> Deadge

because no immo aura or Demon spikes use

[balmy condor]

I mean if every bad assassination rogue complaining about restealths complained about bad chain pulls instead

Maybe we’d get somewhere

[royal lantern]

another reason why m+ should be deleted

no more restealth talk

[fringe oxide]

Isn't bad chainpulls the restealth bit for applying your dots on pull in a different kind of paint?

[normal mist]

Remember when there was a bis list and it was actually bis? And dungeons didn't have infinite scaling? We getting old

[balmy condor]

Yes and no

Bad chain pulls lead to bad dot uptime

And instead of blaming bad chain pulls

The design of the spec is blamed

Even though it’s not an assassination rogue problem

It’s an everyone problem

Like if everyone is tripping over a root in the sidewalk and is breaking their leg

The response should be “man we should do something about that root”

[bronze pike]

Dorki special

[balmy condor]

And not “MY LEG IS MORE BROKEN THAN EVERYONE ELSES LEG”

[bronze pike]

No brand or meta usage

[spice spire]

No bitches

[spice spire]

But it’s worse for me (I just bruised my leg)

[fringe oxide]

That makes sense! Big ty!

[pure moth]

More like jumps into pack and takes it around current to los. Double whammy

I was in an uldaman and tanks like wait here. He goes around corner and just dies in 2 hits lol

[grim jay]

True

[static glacier]

idk bellular called us losers

[grim jay]

I honestly dont know if "how to chainpull the right way" even is in any m+ tank spec guides

[static glacier]

so our legs are 100% more broken xd

[grim jay]

Sounds like Biden calling you old

[static glacier]

I wonder if blizz see all these lists and w/e of content creators dooming rogue

it's fake but maybe it gets us attention from devs

[grim jay]

I hope they dont look at those

Unless they do it in private and use them for a drinking game

[static glacier]

I mean they fixed the infinite cp ER bug quickly when streamers were talking about it

meanwhile the other bugs

[grim jay]

Its always hard to trace it back tbf

If streamers talk about it, 999 out of a 1000 times someone else reported it already way earlier

And they tend to fix issues quicker the larger of a problem they are

[static glacier]

thing is everything has been reported, repeatedly as this point

it's not like we ain't been bitching about our bugs for time

[grim jay]

Yeah its just about priorities, time allocation and how they see those issues at this point

[static glacier]

watch all these lists be wrong when one rogue spec is unquestionably top 5

[lone parrot]

I remember seeing one tier list video a while ago that put rogues at almost the very bottom, and it was just purely because the guy who made the video didnt know how to play rogue

[balmy condor]

It’s usually the other way around btw. Usually they have a fix and then streamers catch on and it gets fixed right after

[static glacier]

can we catch onto the other bugs yet

[radiant sorrel]

Most bleed vs most poison which would be easier to start off playing for someone who hasnt touched rogue in a minute

[balmy condor]

I assure you any bugs the community has already found are on a tracker somewhere

[balmy condor]

Bleed is recommended for everyone

[radiant sorrel]

kk thanks

[quiet oar]

Well

The ER bug got caught

because people used it on prepulls on bosses

and Warcraftlogs flagged the reports with it

[balmy condor]

That definitely elevated its priority

But I can assure you the bug was known WAYYYY before that

[quiet oar]

Ye definitely

But it didnt have a use case before

[balmy condor]

If shit starts getting omega abused then yeah obv a bigger issue

[quiet oar]

and people starting a boss fight with a 1 minute 6 roll

definitely did something

[midnight mist]

Er bug was on our bug tracker since er was introduced in sl

[static glacier]

needed to abuse it earlier, bozo

[midnight mist]

I did lol

[static glacier]

😳

[midnight mist]

I have logs abusing it dating sl

If you want to invalidate all my sylvanas logs

You can

[spice spire]

I definitely want to invalidate any and all outlaw logs

[midnight mist]

Go for it

[static glacier]

why is this sounding like a kink

[spice spire]

[static glacier]

see it's even shallow fried

[midnight mist]

I will miss er bug the most in open world

Was great Perma sprinting and grappling while doing stupid zone content

Like korthia

[quiet oar]

invalidate me

[spice spire]

I’d never

[static glacier]

dark times

very dark times

don't make me remember

[midnight mist]

[quiet oar]

https://tenor.com/view/wow4-warcraft-azshara-gif-20756963

[static glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[midnight mist]

Is sylvanas dead

[quiet oar]

Well

[bronze pike]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-eating-fish-eating-gugalol-gif-19692586

[quiet oar]

She isnt

My Sylvanas Body pillow is very alive

wait

[spice spire]

As stiff as it is

She’s dead king

Call that rigor mortis

[quiet oar]

Its ok

[static glacier]

calling it

sylvanas is coming back for midnight 100%

[bronze pike]

Honestly

Probably

[quiet oar]

Anti arthas

gave her back her life

I mean

tbf

We have her Sister

in TWW

[bronze pike]

Vanessa no where to be seen

[static glacier]

sylvanas was always best windrunner sister, trust

[bronze pike]

Despite having the most connection to dalaran

[ornate dawn]

With no dance now I guess our one min bursts (between the 2 mins) are just pressing KB and going about our day normally

[waxen crescent]

Will i be fucked if i chose to main rogue for tww? Never really played rogue.

On outlaw thread people telling me not too 😂

[bronze pike]

Ya outlaw is crazy

Rogue could be better

But as a class it’s fine

[static glacier]

what constitutes "fucked" for you?

[bronze pike]

I highly suggest you continue to ping pong around classes and find one that suits you the best

[static glacier]

if you're asking will it be meta or not it's kinda too early to say but most likely one spec will be strong atleast

[bronze pike]

Yep

[waxen crescent]

Dont care about meta. Just if fun and engaging rotation, and not to bloated

[bronze pike]

I think you’ll do fine as a rogue tbh

Hero trees are ass compared to other specs so

[static glacier]

what gameplay loops do you find fun? fast apm? planning? reactive gameplay? pressing same button in a row or alternating? burst / sustained damage?

give us an example of what you have enjoyed historically

and what about it

[waxen crescent]

Planning around pulls with CDs, different rotation for each scenario like huge aoe st, a few mobs. Also find it fun to have some utility, so kicks stuns etc.

Played survival and ele at 3k+ rating before. So the huge aoe pulls were alot of fun with some mobility.

[static glacier]

from your description you should avoid outlaw

sin deffo has different rotations based on target count, sub's rotation stays the same on trickster up to 8t but is different for deathstalker at different target counts

both sin and sub have potent burst, rogue as a class is very mobile

all three specs have a good amount of control

[waxen crescent]

Honestly havent looked much into hero talents atm. Originally plan was either dk or survival, but already played those. Always wanted to try out rogue, seems alot of fun and different from most other classes

[static glacier]

in general rogue is unpopular, more difficult than the average class

on paper the class is strong, but you have to work for your damage - we don't have the most intuitive gameplay

kinda need to read a guide

there's a lot of micro optimisations

on the plus side you're very fast and tanky

which is quite rare

[waxen crescent]

I dont mind a challenge. If i need to research and practice it generally gets more engaged in my class.

[static glacier]

best advice I can give is just try and play it, give each spec an hour at least and then make your mind up

[grim jay]

Sounds like you are one of us

[static glacier]

outlaw is the fastest / most reactive of the specs, features the least planning and lowest burst

sub is the most cd planning orinented while sin is very scripted in cds but has a lot of bleed management in aoe

[waxen crescent]

Thats a good idea. Did play outlaw when i lvled from 60 to 70 early dragonflight, but it didnt seem that strong while lvling. Will proberly try sin and sub in prepatcj then

[static glacier]

disregard rogue gameplay below max lvl, it's awful

ever since our rework the class just doesn't function at low levels

[waxen crescent]

Aah okay makes sense

[gusty mirage]

Rogue has a thing about it that keeps people coming back. If you just peek around you’ll notice most people bitching about it but they always come back. There’s something very satisfying about it when things start clicking

[bronze pike]

[waxen crescent]

I could imagine. Been a priest main since wrath, mostly for PvP and some high end raiding years back. Even tho disc as been ass a numerous times in PvP it always clicked for me and came back after some time

[static glacier]

in general the doom for rogue in tww is monstly bc of hero talent trees that had issues, blizzard resolved the biggest problem and now you will always have one tree that is playable and mostly passive

[grim jay]

Thats just the discord and community

[static glacier]

power-wise the class is 100% going to be viable

people thinking otherwise are dooming

[grim jay]

Rogue usually never stays ass for a long time and atleast one spec is viable. Balancing was pretty fine for raid lately anyways

[royal lantern]

[bronze pike]

[shrewd night]

[waxen crescent]

Thanks for the chat! Differently made me more at ease trying out rogue again

[gusty mirage]

[grim jay]

Why is that not a rh emote

[bronze pike]

Secret cat emotes

[hearty reef]

[shrewd night]

Wait a year and itll become a rh emote

[grim jay]

[gusty mirage]

And if you ever need clarification on anything all the channels have very helpful people, so don’t be afraid to ask for any clarifications. I think you’ll love the class when you’re comfortable with it, I know that’s the main reason that I played for as long as I did

[gusty mirage]

Just need guy to discover it and ask one of us to add it

[waxen crescent]

Thank you. Gonna try sin and sub out asap! Side questions what you do think is the most aesthetically race to play?

[bronze pike]

Mo

[balmy condor]

A lot of people play some form of elf

I’m a fan of void elf personally

[rain mortar]

YAS void elf POG

[gusty mirage]

I’ve always been a fan of the elf races in general, female blood elf has a stalking stealth animation which is super cool imo. Goblins have possibly the funniest stealth animation (they tip toe sneak). And then there’s the hilarity of a giant cow sneaking around which makes Tauren a good choice as well

[quiet oar]

Stalking Stealth animation? Perfect for the @spice spire

[gusty mirage]

But void elf/blood elf are imo top tier

[gusty mirage]

[spice surge]

Pandaren /sit animation is unmatched

[gusty mirage]

Panda sit animation is BIS

This is true

[bronze pike]

Blood elf

Cause they’re hot

[gusty mirage]

You’re hot

[quiet oar]

@midnight mist Tell me a story about Panda Belly animation

[midnight mist]

panda is bis

[bronze pike]

[midnight mist]

if you think panda isnt bis model and animation

[bronze pike]

Us if u keep talking

[midnight mist]

hit /dance

then come again

[spice surge]

TRUE

[midnight mist]

no one can resist panda dance anim

[bronze pike]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-world-of-warcraft-dance-wow-pandaren-male-lmfao-party-rock-anthem-gif-27495538

[quiet oar]

Good thing we get a race cahnge toy

for 1 hours

with 2 hours cd

[bronze pike]

I can’t stop thinking about that kuzuu hero wow tweet

[midnight mist]

2h duration

2h cd

would have litteraly

been a revolution

for the game

[quiet oar]

Nah

[midnight mist]

but they are keeping it for next expac

[quiet oar]

Cant have a duration as long as the cd

[midnight mist]

next expac we get 1h30 duration

2h cd

[royal lantern]

/sleep

no contest

[bronze pike]

Legendary wing toy begs to differ

[balmy condor]

Vulpera /sleep

[bronze pike]

God I love most of pandaria

[royal lantern]

and funfact, if you do /roar as pandaren, its literally a bear roar

[quiet oar]

in 18 months MoP classic

[subtle tundra]

@balmy condor woah i just noticed your hair

youre cool

[bronze pike]

I’ll be so there

[balmy condor]

No im hot

[subtle tundra]

that was implied

[quiet oar]

Me too

[bronze pike]

Execution scentence was good

Lights hammer

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

Get ready to be grungled

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

Been ready

[shrewd night]

[bronze pike]

[balmy condor]

Do not did someone say cock or something the wide George

[subtle tundra]

titties

[shrewd night]

[waxen crescent]

Never liked belf.. Atm my rogue is female orc, looks abit cluncky.

May have to check out voidelf

[fresh sphinx]

For the Alliance!

[gusty mirage]

Honorable mentions to female undead for one of the coolest finisher animations in the game

[bronze pike]

Loktar ogar

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

Finisher? I hardly know er

[gusty mirage]

Shame their racial bonuses are absolutely dogshit

[ornate dawn]

Cooming > racials

[balmy condor]

True

[spice spire]

[shrewd night]

@verbal mantle You heard the man, let me meet you

[balmy condor]

[shrewd night]

[subtle tundra]

thank god poe in 3 days

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

God is dead

[restive inlet]

Haven't really kept up with the changes too much, since I'm a casual now. NGL though, seeing we're playing echoing reprimand kinda makes me want to puke

shame we lose dance as well, that was fun with KB

[subtle tundra]

🤨

that was fun?

ok

weird ass fun

[bronze pike]

Real

[royal lantern]

female belf and male worgen have the best stealth animation simply because it actually looks like somebody trying to stealth around and stalking something

[bronze pike]

My rogue has canonically big

[royal lantern]

most others are just "walk"

[restive inlet]

I liked it, was satisfying to get really big Kingsbane damage

[subtle tundra]

🎣

shadow dance would've been fun if there was no kb in the game

kb ruining assa

only aggraveted by caustic

[restive inlet]

I disagree, but hey. Each to their own

[verbal mantle]

no (yes)

[shrewd night]

[grim jay]

Tauren rogues

Should be illegal

(its funny but cmon)

[ebon notch]

Omg the channels disappeared

[rotund oak]

omg its prepatch day

[blazing tulip]

#announcements

[ebon notch]

I saw it

I thought it was release not pre patch

[jaunty dew]

Now we can all doom together on the class 😄

[royal lantern]

or

we dont

🙂

[rotund oak]

^^

dooming is for the weak

be the alpha

[sharp stump]

Now how am I supposed to know if sin is good or garbage if I can’t read pins ??

What am I supposed to do, have an independent thought and form my own opinion? Fuck that

[rotund oak]

as in u cant read the pins for a specific reason or..

[sharp stump]

About TWW silly Billy

😝

[rotund oak]

the pins are literally for prepatch,tuning is yet to be done

so what to read if there is nothing final

[sharp stump]

Where was pre patch discussion thread

I only saw TWW thread

🤔

[clever sapphire]

sin plays pretty much the same as in DF and the dmg is gonna come down to tuning

there i summed up the whole of tww thread

[sharp stump]

Thanks king

[rotund oak]

the pins,if u just read them

[clever sapphire]

also i hope you enjoy flipping coins

[rotund oak]

u will understand

[sharp stump]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-jojo-jojo-bizarre-adventure-thumbs-up-gif-8704272925551344822

[clever sapphire]

"chain pulling is always better dps due to the uptime increase" whispyr put this here 100% for all the restealth complainers

[rotund oak]

[clever sapphire]

you wont catch me complaining tho, bonespike in M+ letsgooo

btw do we get the new m+ system in prepatch?

didnt really bother reading the news

[balmy condor]

getting out ahead of the "WAHHHHHHHHHH MY DANCE"

[clever sapphire]

the problem is probably that you put it too far down ngl, most of the people are going to read the first 5 words and then ask "guys how do i tell my tank not to chain pull"

[grim jay]

Are you ready for "we have 6s to spread garrotes now BUT I CANT STEALTH"

[dark token]

Don't you use vanish purely for bleeds now

[grim jay]

Gotta add a header
big stealth secret reveal at the end

[rotund oak]

reverberberberberbrbr

not good

😂

[royal lantern]

garrote, yes

[vestal wren]

just quick heads up, wowhead should be updated now for pre patch.

[rotund oak]

🫶

[vestal wren]

(i need to quickly put some changes i hold on, but should be all done before patch release)

[vestal wren]

you need to send a lot of ❤️ to whispyr and guy, i had my rotation formatting already in line with the tww changes but both of them had to spend a lot of effort to re-work theirs.

means, the pre patch change was more relexed for me

[balmy condor]

all that work and the rotation tool is still dogshit

[rotund oak]

im not sending anything to guy,he betrayed me but whispyr is getting all the love he wants ❤️

[gusty mirage]

I refuse to send them anything except this:

Esp that whispyr guy

Whyspir

[vestal wren]

reminds me, time to add snd to the opener

[gusty mirage]

Mfer can’t even spell his own name 💀

[vestal wren]

i forgot

[gusty mirage]

I just made a note you press it once and forget it

Easiest edit besides shitting on shadow heart tbh

[grim jay]

Sounds an awful lot like Weißbier

[vestal wren]

ye i just need to add a sepsis toggler

and snd

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor @sudden brook ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

fuu told me to do it

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I gotta update the rotation for sepsis, but I’m hoping I wake up next week and it’s deleted

[worldly sentinel]

any good trinkets for assa rogue on the beta rn? Been testing some, after darkmoon got patched.

[balmy condor]

2min on use delve trinket

and egg sack

but they recently nerfed the delve trinket by like 25%

so

who fucking knows man lmao

[midnight mist]

Wanted to check how new format looked

I'm not disappointed

Wowhead is still ass

[balmy condor]

why does your browser have aids

[midnight mist]

I think wowhead forgot to make a working website for phone probably

[vestal wren]

try desktop mode

[midnight mist]

Ye

[wooden radish]

probably not mobile responsive lol

which isn't always an easy thing to do either

[midnight mist]

Ye I can see that

[wooden radish]

tbf

funny thing is that its possible majority of wowhead users are desktop, and mobile are the minority, where usually in other real-world cases mobile usually dominates

so wowhead is probably designed desktop first

since all us nerds sat at desktop computers playing wow and wowhead open on 2nd screen

[midnight mist]

That's probably because wowhead is litteraly aids to use on phone lol

[ornate dawn]

We cant know that without seeing the analytics though, and its easier to design mobile first anyway,

[wooden radish]

well yeah wowhead is awful on phone because its designed as desktop first

[pliant gazelle]

It's a good thing that they nerfed leech.

[midnight mist]

Not much better on desktop tbh

[wooden radish]

yeah i know, im just assuming considering the usual gamer environment

[ornate dawn]

Oh of course yeah

[wooden radish]

cave/basement, with pc/laptop with 2-3 screens (imagine single screen these days)

[midnight mist]

I always feel like I have to open 10 different sub menu thing

And then you still have 50 different section for everything

Nothing make sense or follow an unified thing

Reminds me of windows fr

[balmy condor]

sorry you hate everything zac

[midnight mist]

Real

[ornate dawn]

Thing is wowhead has grown so huge over the years, its probably a nightmare

[wooden radish]

https://tenor.com/view/omegalul-lul-lulw-twitch-emote-gif-13523263

[worldly sentinel]

thx

[wooden radish]

i wish wowhead news section had a simple filter function

or an adv filter

like they need to add tags to articles

like

rogue
guide
tww etc

so you can filter for specifically rogue news, that are guides, for tww

otherwise its a nightmare to find, even the search functionality sucks

even for patch notes etc, it gets drowned by all this casual content stuff that swarms around the important stuff like whisper/fuu/guys articles

[balmy condor]

it's right here though for the guides

[grim jay]

On the topic of hating

Will the acro icon be removed for the prepatch or on tww release?

[balmy condor]

probably swap over to hero talent icons for tww

[normal mist]

That will be pretty cool

[ornate dawn]

So swap acro icon for two poop emojis - got it

[normal mist]

I like the deathstalker icon

Or a coin for Fatebound

[midnight mist]

The hero talents icons are maybe too detailed tho

[grim jay]

Can we have one thats half ambush half deathstalker mark?

[midnight mist]

To be small

[normal mist]

You're right

[midnight mist]

Although you can just use one of their staple spel

Like coup for trickster

[normal mist]

Yep yep!

[midnight mist]

Or feint

[normal mist]

Looool

[midnight mist]

One of the coin for fatebound

[grim jay]

Ambush for deathstalker

[midnight mist]

And one of the purple shit for deathstalker

Ambush

[grim jay]

Its the enabler

We gotta take it at face value

[midnight mist]

You know

This is probably one of the ugliest icon

I have ever seen

[royal lantern]

can we get a 4th icon then, which is a trashcan?

[midnight mist]

I hope it's just some old ass one

[grim jay]

I thought the same tbf

[fresh sphinx]

incoming mega rogue buffs!!!

[grim jay]

90s want their icons back

[midnight mist]

But it's probably a old thing right

[vestal wren]

i ended up writing lines like this, so its managable

[balmy condor]

I mean its not a formatting problem

[ornate dawn]

Fatebound is kinda meh

[balmy condor]

it's a problem of not being able to do A+B

[grim jay]

No it isnt

[vestal wren]

oh ye that too

[normal mist]

That's pretty awesome honestly

[midnight mist]

Lol they don't make it easy

[vestal wren]

but overall, the above makes it a lot more managable

[balmy condor]

ER/SBS opener togglers are literally impossible

cause I need neither, ER, SBS, ER+SBS

[vestal wren]

technically they are

but its very stupid how you would do it

neverless, think thats more a tww guide re-visit ^^

[vestal wren]

not pre patch

[grim jay]

Its right there

[midnight mist]

No but I mean

It's a reused icon

Or

[ornate dawn]

The main art for the hero trees is kinda nice

[midnight mist]

Like the only new icons are the coins I think

[vestal wren]

agree

[celest drift]

Guys where can i find the buglist sheet for TWW?

[grim jay]

Thats a good question. Doesnt look like it on wowhead

[balmy condor]

Current Bug List

[potent dagger]

It is your char login screen XD

[balmy condor]

oh god

that link broke too

[ornate dawn]

Does the Deathstalker art look like hes poopin down their chimey or am I cooked

[balmy condor]

fuck me

[royal lantern]

[grim jay]

[vestal wren]

discord changed that

basically links get fucked after a specific time

[balmy condor]

yeh

incredible

[vestal wren]

they made it because of ai tools

basically didn't want midjourney to use discord as a image host

oh sry, official version

they made it so people couldn't use it for scam stuff

[midnight mist]

uh, its actually new

[midnight mist]

[vestal wren]

it was also a problem

maleware was often hosted on discord and then linked on external sites

[fleet pagoda]

has this been a thing in DF or something that popped up in beta?

[vestal wren]

but i doubt they cared that much about the 100 clicks on it compared to the millions of images people actively viewed from ai stuff

[celest drift]

thx!

[balmy condor]

that's been a thing forever yeh

[fleet pagoda]

oof. good looks, ty

[balmy condor]

the hope was

that they would fix it for beta

they didn't

:)

[fleet pagoda]

all g, i'll surely use this information ethically

[real pike]

so I'm a big old noob and late to the party but it looks like we've had a lot of useful tools for m+ removed with not much to offset it?

[grim jay]

Pin

[real pike]

or should I just go and watch a whispyr video that answers all my questions

[royal lantern]

explain me what got removed

[real pike]

long arms, less time on IC, no SD to reapply empowered dots

[clever sapphire]

assa didnt play acro for quite some time anyways (also i saw that coming as soon as tryan asked )

[vestal wren]

haha welcome to my world

[real pike]

https://tenor.com/view/puppet-awkward-looking-what-side-eye-gif-15476992

[grim jay]

Didnt have long arms anyways, you have more dot potential per IC with 6s for garrote and the SD loss is minimal at best assuming everyone does his Job

Is the tldr

[real pike]

cool ty

[balmy condor]

you never used the last 5-6 seconds of IC anyway most of the time

[real pike]

ohhh acro was bad because CS etc was still the lower range right so it was misleading?

[balmy condor]

so while IC is 6 seconds now

it's overall a buff

[real pike]

because you usually did 3 garotte + 3 rup?

[balmy condor]

acro was bad cause it was a dps loss

[balmy condor]

was usually gar gar gar rup and done

[royal lantern]

assa never played acro anyway

IC time is basically the same, you never used the full 10sec anyway, Dance was a mistake and should have never be in there in the first place, and you only used it for 10% more kingsband dmg

[balmy condor]

or maybe a fok rup after that

but like

6 seconds was all people used most of the time to begin with

[royal lantern]

^

[real pike]

I enjoyed the extra time on IC because I often found myself tab targeting through mobs that already had dots for ages lmao to find ones without

as I said, I'm a noob

[grim jay]

Evolve to a clicker with a good plater setup

[balmy condor]

I just don't bother tabbing

[real pike]

fully agreed that SD should never have existed outside of sub, I hated it, but it did help sometimes to throw some empowered bleeds out during the KB window, although I was probably playing it wrong

[grim jay]

Ruthless

[balmy condor]

I only ever need 5 ruptures anyway

[real pike]

do you have a profile by any chance

[balmy condor]

what does it matter if I rup the same thing twice

[grim jay]

!WA

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[grim jay]

Whispyrs and cevs are similar in function

Gotta see what fits you better

I personally did adjust space between nameplates afterwards

[real pike]

currently using a Vesperal one, I'll try those for sure

I do try and click but sometimes the plate I want is hidden behind others

maybe should try stacking instead of overlapping

[grim jay]

Yeah thats what those have

Stacking and decent space between

With the debuffs being reduced to the important stuff

[real pike]

hopefully there's noob friendly stuff like important inturrupts highlighted etc too :>

[grim jay]

Was just sassing you lovely

[grim jay]

I think cevs has the mobs with different colours for stuff like that

[real pike]

oooo so you just keep smashing the same mob and the IC applications are 'smart'?

[balmy condor]

yeh

you just lose the one you're reapplying

[real pike]

big fucking brain stuff

[balmy condor]

which is whatever

[fleet pagoda]

longer duration happy tunneling on that target and forget there's others

[balmy condor]

you're funny if you think it's lasting even half of that rupture

[serene wyvern]

so you can just get a main target and dump everuything into him?

[grim jay]

What about those +72 keys you mentioned earlier

[gusty mirage]

why don't you +72 my balls on your face pal

[balmy condor]

if you don't mind losing a bit of damage overwriting the bleed a bit yeah

[grim jay]

Id only 69 them

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

carnage is smart, obviously if you're gonna rupture something that has rupture, it's gonna refresh it

that's the "loss"

so the question is

would you rather stumble around like a bozo tabbing through everything or misclicking nameplates and getting skill issued perma

or do you just take a small L and deal with it

[serene wyvern]

i just hope that rogue will have 1 decent spec in m+ and 1 in raiding

[balmy condor]

it will

[serene wyvern]

assa for raiding i assume

[balmy condor]

ask again in september

[serene wyvern]

:))

[rain mortar]

Right now it’s sub for both - but there hasn’t been any tuning so it will change I’m sure

[serene wyvern]

rogue will get some buffs for sure

[grim jay]

Its usually like that

[real pike]

well...

[serene wyvern]

i remember the first patch in shadowland when they decided to buff assa 6% all dmg

[balmy condor]

rogue has had an above average spec in all forms of content for basically the last decade

[clever sapphire]

i will tab target and even talent internal bleeding so my tab targeting skill issue gets even higher if i suck at it

what now

[balmy condor]

skill issue

[gusty mirage]

wdym, you beat the game

[clever sapphire]

well kinda

[gusty mirage]

that's it sir, you're done

congrats

[clever sapphire]

time to unsub

since i beat the game

[real pike]

I just hope we don't get a repeat of most of DF where our strong m+ spec has reverse stat prio to the strong raid spec although I'm sure this didn't matter nearly as much as I thought it did and I in fact just suck at Outlaw

[grim jay]

Its your chance

[clever sapphire]

thx oxi, solved my riddle

[gusty mirage]

[serene wyvern]

assa nerf for m+ in df was dogshit

[gusty mirage]

your reward is freedom

[rain mortar]

Tuning wise I have no doubt rogue will end up with 1-2 decent specs - problem for me right now is simply that hero talents and playstyle are a bit meh and I don’t think we will see changes to those for a LONG while. Hope I’m wrong

[grim jay]

It generally doesnt matter nearly as much. Its potentially a few gs on some pieces even if you wanted optimal stats

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I mean that's a fair complaint, the hero talents are pretty ass

[grim jay]

Flightstones are a non issue

[real pike]

and yet I still did considerably better as sin than Outlaw

[gusty mirage]

super disappointing for an expansion feature

[clever sapphire]

hero tree rework coming in 12.1 (not 12.0 because thats reserved for mage rebalancing and warlock buffs)

[balmy condor]

what assa nerf for m+

[serene wyvern]

if we see a change for hero talents, it will be in s3 prob

[gusty mirage]

Hopefully sooner than that, I pray they spend the first tier iterating on and fixing the shitty hero talents. Because rogue def isn't alone in the hero talents sucking balls department

[grim jay]

Oh no, Whispyr ready to pull the trigger

[rain mortar]

Especially when there are quite a few other classes that have REALLY cool hero talents. It’s like Christmas Day your brother gets a new Xbox and you get a pair of socks

[balmy condor]

I can't remember

[serene wyvern]

in season 3 they nerfed assa, probably it was overall but with a large impact in m+ from what i recall

[balmy condor]

what

it was for raid

?

[real pike]

shall I distract him with some restealthing chat

[gusty mirage]

yeah, there's a few that are absolute knock outs. Sadly the majority are either uninspired or just plain bad

so you get these handful of people who are like YO THIS IS SICK, and the rest of everyone is like "um, I got socks for christmas, what the fuck"

[grim jay]

Thats never worth. Ask him about crit cap for deathstalker in tww

[balmy condor]

assa was like 10% ahead of every spec in the game in raid and running multiple was mandatory on fyrakk

[rain mortar]

I may be wrong about this - but feel as if most classes at at least one cool one - rogue has no cool ones. We got a lump of coal

[balmy condor]

it definitely didn't get nerfed cause of m+ lmao

[gusty mirage]

warrior ones are pretty dogshit from what I hear

seems the melee ones are kinda yikers in general

[real pike]

tbh as long as I'm not forced into playing Fatebound because it's just that much better I'll be ok, but FB looks absolutely horrific to me

[gusty mirage]

DHs are miserable with theirs as well

[balmy condor]

you'd rather play deathstalker?

[fleet pagoda]

isn't that the theme though

[gusty mirage]

TRUE

[grim jay]

Id assume they ll smooth them out and do some fixes/QoL stuff, because main feature and supposedly evergreen

[real pike]

honestly yeah, does that make me the problem?

[balmy condor]

bless your soul

[gusty mirage]

ye I mean they kinda have to, right?

[rain mortar]

In theory deathstslker is cooler - but it sticks haha

Sucks

[gusty mirage]

deathstinker

aka poopstalker

[serene wyvern]

ofc but it felt in m+, at least i felt like it was

[balmy condor]

deathstalker just straight up makes the spec worse

[serene wyvern]

doesnt matter now anyways 😄

[real pike]

ignorance is bliss?

[balmy condor]

fatebound at least does absolutely nothing

[gusty mirage]

expansion feature btw

[rain mortar]

Yeah I just meant thematically you would assume deathstslker could be really cool - but it’s not.

[grim jay]

Obviously, but it was for the raid, just impacted m+ aswell

[balmy condor]

if I had the option between something bad and something that has no bearing on anything

I'm taking the second

[real pike]

I mean I haven't played any beta or anything or even really watched footage, just read the talents and discussion online etc

[royal lantern]

deathbringer dk is allright

[grim jay]

Will be kinda interesting to see if they treat it like the normal talents

[real pike]

but Fatebound seems so madly RNG-heavy and I'm not a fan of the idea

[rain mortar]

I mean the DK rider one is so cool thematically

[balmy condor]

fatebound is less rng

[real pike]

for cereals?

[balmy condor]

yes

[gusty mirage]

nice they nailed one out of the 12

[balmy condor]

the spec in season 3/4 had a nearly 16% spread

[grim jay]

Dk in general has pretty fine ones, but you can do so much with that thematically and lorewise anyways

[royal lantern]

👍

[balmy condor]

with fatebound it's like almost under 10%

deathstalker is like 9.5%

[rain mortar]

I still want them to change deathstslker to let me throw a smoke bomb and it applies 3 marks on all targets hit muahahahaha

[balmy condor]

RNG is way way down from season 3 to tww

regardless of what you play

[grim jay]

Oh and WW monk, they are really good imo

[gusty mirage]

I keep forgetting about monk, probably because up until tww so did blizzard

[grim jay]

Monk is the new class for tww

Wdym

[gusty mirage]

[grim jay]

[real pike]

this is very welcome news indeed

[royal lantern]

[gusty mirage]

reeling in KB damage helped that a lot

assa variance in s3/s4 was bonkers

it was the most rng rogue spec lmao

[real pike]

yah opener variance was mad, always wondered what I was doing wrong

[royal lantern]

"good parses? you mean KB crits and highrolls?"