assassination

[potent raven]

just ask it

[ashen oriole]

does the deathmark 100% dmg buff apply to kingsbane as well?

[ocean quiver]

this is my damage right now in keys

[spice surge]

No

[ocean quiver]

granted I haven't done that many, and was using just the regular single target build kinda

[spice surge]

Deathmark doesnt buff anything by 100%, it duplicates rupture, garrote and weapon poisons

Those would be the same thing if it werent for other interaction, like 2 garrotes give 2 procs of venomous wounds etc

[ocean quiver]

Seems I have the wrong build for tempest too

build on the left is wowhead and on the right is archon.gg

[grim jay]

There are just multiple builds

Also archon just grabs data from higher keys iirc

[ashen oriole]

left one is good for low keys

[ocean quiver]

went into a key with t he one on the right

whoops

Honestly

I think I prefer the build without tempest

idk

[grim jay]

It just goes to shit if you cant fully utilize kb

And only really has a benefit if you need Boss dmg

[ocean quiver]

sudden demise doing no damage too

[junior aurora]

sd gives 10% more bleed damage

[grim jay]

He just means with Hybrid vs shock

[nimble zinc]

not wrong, one is the M+ arterial shock build, (heavy bleed aoe), the other is the "cleave" build

[ocean quiver]

The only type of keys that i'm doing rn is like

2-6s

I was using this build last time

now I was using the build on the right in the image above

[nimble zinc]

here was my dmg on an 8 academy the other day.

sudden demise works best with arterial precision + zoldyk because its basically an execute bleed phase

[ocean quiver]

might have to watch a guide ngl

this was my damage breakdown

using this

[nimble zinc]

yeah I was gonna say looks like cleave build

typically only run cleave build on high tyrannical keys, like 12-15+

shock build works for 99% of keys 10 and under

[ocean quiver]

So which build would you say is better

this one which I normally run

or this one

[acoustic roost]

the 2nd one

[ocean quiver]

gotcha

[nimble zinc]

this is a single target / cleave build for Raid

[nimble zinc]

this one is for keys

[ocean quiver]

that's the one I was running all my keys with ngl

[grim jay]

Its used in some high keys aswell, if St is needed

[nimble zinc]

no worries

[grim jay]

But if its not its just troll

Especially on low keys

[ocean quiver]

this was my algathar

with the single targety build

[nimble zinc]

yeah that's not bad

but there's a lot of factors that come into play in keys -- how big are the pulls? how long are the mobs living? etc.

[ocean quiver]

yeah true

This was a 6 last week

on fortfied

single target build

but i'll try that one that you just said

assuming it's just the same as the other builds too? same rotation

[grim jay]

+9 weekly with the other build you posted that you didnt try

[ocean quiver]

dayum

i'm also 508 ilvl rn too ;(

[grim jay]

Its just way better in lower keys

[dreamy steppe]

hey question, if i understand sudden demise right, do i want to rupture things that is about to die than envenom if they dont have it yet

[spice surge]

If you wanted to exclusively max out your sudden demise damage rather than overall damage yes

[ocean quiver]

It's crazy the amount of keys I get declined in

[spice surge]

If a target dies while you have bleeds on them you "lose" all the damage thats left in those bleeds

If you have sudden demise, you "lose" a lot less of that

So its not really something you actively play around, but something that makes you "lose" less damage rather than gaining more damage

[potent raven]

my caustic spatter bulled the boss

when i was like 10 meters away from it

so odd

it pulled from wehre the blacksmith is lol

[spice surge]

You sure it was caustic and not shiv

[potent raven]

yep

says first hit caustic spatter

[spice surge]

If its the details one its not always accurate, but if logs says so then sure

[potent raven]

ic

hmm odd

[spice surge]

Because shiv will definitely pull from there, whereas spatter shouldnt

[potent raven]

yep its details in chat

dont remember if i used kb there gonna go look at vod

[spice surge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1014354006270808144/1252037818570510346/image.png?ex=66740e55&is=6672bcd5&hm=293b080190479d74c04cdbb3bc43678de825c713769765a76f8438b87633a9d4&
Heres an example from the beta (but it works the same on live)

My troll is at red, shiving the target right infront of me, it hits all 4 dummies including the blue one

[tiny leaf]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[potent raven]

i see yeah its pretty big range then

let me look

timed it still

[ocean quiver]

Using the new build

I do even less damage than I was before

[potent raven]

nah

i didnt use shiv there

details must be not accurate

i was way too far for my spatter to hit boss at all

crimson pump ez

[ocean quiver]

this was my damage breakdown

5 algathar

[potent raven]

i see

not bad

[ocean quiver]

thing is

not even my biggest dps ;(

[potent raven]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ja6Btheopuyb7HCiS3jAHS

can anyone look at my sim

why is the dps gain so low

457dps from crit/mast recraft + helm

[ocean quiver]

my st sim

[potent raven]

p low ilvl and mebe not done right

yeah not recrafting anything

not worth for 400 dps

in s4

[ocean quiver]

Yeah I never get loot drops

and never get taken into keys

also sadge tho

the single target build I hit 2m dps burst

with the tempest one I only hit 1.4m

I assume it's just lower burst but higher constant damage

[rotund oak]

we dont use crimson tempest for ST

even bursting

unless u wanna ''aoe''

actually we never press crimson tempest for ST dps

[ocean quiver]

No no I mean like

this build is the lowest dps for me

and this build which is basically like single target

is my highest dps

[rotund oak]

why do u use spatter for ST then

[royal mauve]

What are you simming? ST, AOE?

[rotund oak]

im confused now

[slate crown]

I don't think they do, they said "basically like"

which it is, it's literally single target but imp poison -> IW, dashing -> IC, IB -> Spatter

[rotund oak]

idk what u mean by ''like'' i just follow the numbers,u dont use spatter for single target,its assassinations blade flurry

it makes no sense to spec into spatter for ST

[shy pecan]

I mean, sure, the cleave build can be fine if your main target stays up for long. But you’re also comparing fort keys to tyrannical ones, where the latter you won’t get as much value from with it on trash.

[rotund oak]

also this^^

kinda foggy

parameters missing

[rotund oak]

idk prolly coz ur main stat remains unchanged(as in your ilvl remains the same)

[nimble zinc]

takes practice

[rotund oak]

i think it doesnt rly worth to minmax it but if u want that smol gain sure

[royal mauve]

If im playing the hybrid build in M+ i shouldn't be using crimson temp on ST right? Is there a target count to look for?

[shy pecan]

4+ to fire CT

[royal mauve]

Defintely been over using it lol

Ty!

[rotund oak]

we never press CT for ST,always 4+ for CT

[slate crown]

Maybe this is just wording, "like" meaning "similar to", which, compared to CT build, it is "like" single target, it's similar to it, moreso than the other build which is much different. I don't know, it read perfectly clear to me because Cleave is 3 (or 2 if you're a dps hog and don't take IW) talent swaps away from pure single target

Either way I'm just splitting hairs here

[rotund oak]

yup i think im being language barrier'd

[slate crown]

[quiet forge]

which buiild for m+? i see there are 4 but 3 seem to be very situational

[spice surge]

Thrown precision is really really good though, should probably have that even with the cleave build

[quiet forge]

which one is the default?

[spice surge]

Now that we've realized that kingsbane is bugged and you get stacks on it for every target you poison, not just the kingsbaned one

[spice surge]

Probably shock one, but idk, depends on what you mean by default

[nimble zinc]

shock

[ocean quiver]

Are you all talking about me

but

What I mean is like

[nimble zinc]

shock build for m+ BMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQSkkIBAAAAAAItkItkAAAAAAAtWSCSgkkSKBRkEJJJJRrViEA

[ocean quiver]

This build is the original m+ build I used

[clever sapphire]

Ye that build is for like keys 15+

[ocean quiver]

for me it does the msot damage

compared to both tempest builds

[nimble zinc]

shock build on calculator https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/DAOFVVFRRFURQmJBQCVBNVUVVVUJQEEiUUBF

[shy pecan]

Yes, we get what you're trying to say. The reality though is that when you're comparing last week where trash lasts forever so you can get high value on your CDs vs this week where trash dies in like five seconds, you're gonna have different results with the build depending on your group.

[nimble zinc]

i only use this build for raid fights where theres like 3 bosses, like council of dreams

[clever sapphire]

I mean then something went really wrong, you should do almost no dmg besides on bosses

[glacial stump]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[ocean quiver]

Wasn't everyone else using it tho?

The only problem I had was my target was dying in like

6 sec

[runic hinge]

How high of keys are you doing

[ocean quiver]

I did a 9 once

and the rest were like 2-6

[shy pecan]

That’s exactly why we don’t play that build. If your target dies that fast, it does no damage.

[slate crown]

Assassination's build performance is determined not by the builds themselves but by key level

[runic hinge]

see the thing is that spec is for higher keys where your aoe can be carried by your kb target spattering all your damage

but if your kb target dies in 6 seconds you don't get much value and youre also now doing little aoe

[slate crown]

That cleave build, the single target like build, will do more damage than the other build, this is expected, when your targets live the full duration, you'll blast

[ocean quiver]

thing is

I was still top over 520s

[junior aurora]

they were bad

[runic hinge]

so people will play arterial, which does sim lower, but does better damage in lower keys because it relies more on bleeds than just spatter

[ocean quiver]

neltharus 6

[shy pecan]

People can play like shit with 525 gear. One of the mods was playing with an ele sham doing like 150k the other day

[runic hinge]

spreist also doesn't do much dam in low keys

things die too fast for it

[ocean quiver]

what about warrior

[runic hinge]

but you can do well with the cleave build but it can be better to play the ap shock build in lower keys

idk about warrior i don't invite them to my keys

[ocean quiver]

💀

[spice spire]

Quakewar will remember this

Arms fucks afaik

[ocean quiver]

and critcake

[runic hinge]

yeah maybe if you login ever again

[spice spire]

Gear doesn’t equal good tho. Plenty of baddies have good gear

[runic hinge]

Also I played some fury last season and it was fun af

[spice spire]

[ocean quiver]

I mean i'll keep playing the tempest build, it's simming like 100k difference almost

[spice spire]

Fury is just lightweight outlaw

[runic hinge]

guess what my warriors name is

[ocean quiver]

2mil sudden demise

[runic hinge]

sims aren't perfect for dungeons

[spice spire]

Stuartnugz

[ocean quiver]

Not really paying attention to the actual numbers but like

big difference between the build I was using, to the tempest build

[spice spire]

Hate that

[runic hinge]

lmfao

[junior aurora]

wheres my tonyhugz at

[runic hinge]

sims for dslice and builds can be wonky

[ocean quiver]

I don't do dungeon slice

I just did 5 bosses for 5mins

[runic hinge]

oh

well

that's not what you should do for sims lol

[royal mauve]

5 mins def to long

for AOE

[ocean quiver]

Yeah but if both are gonna be bad for overall damage wise anyway

[runic hinge]

and if you really want a sim build try this

[ocean quiver]

it'll still be accurate regardless of what it is

[runic hinge]

that outsims cleave by 2.5%

[ocean quiver]

so basically

I should just stick to this build for aoe

[junior aurora]

dropping sob outsims cleave?

[ocean quiver]

until I push the higher keys

[runic hinge]

for dslice, cleave is ahead in patchwerk by like 8% thoo

[runic hinge]

yes

[ocean quiver]

Right

[clever sapphire]

Like 14+ yap

[ocean quiver]

and someone before said why am I playing caustic splatter for single target

thought this was the raid build

[junior aurora]

well u just change it to internal bleeding for st

[shy pecan]

Raid build has internal bleeding for ST

[ocean quiver]

massive dps difference?

these are the parses rn

[junior aurora]

no it doesnt really matter

[shy pecan]

Caustic does zero damage on ST

[junior aurora]

when im lazy i just leave spatter on the whole raid

but ib does do more st

[ocean quiver]

For simming ST how long shoudl the fight be

[junior aurora]

so if ur minmaxxing it should be ib

[ocean quiver]

gotcha

but if there's ads just use caustic

[runic hinge]

yes

[ocean quiver]

sweet

[runic hinge]

like gnarlroot and igira

[ocean quiver]

what's the single target sim time?

[runic hinge]

I just do default 5 mins

[junior aurora]

5 min

if u know your kill times you can adjust

[ocean quiver]

Haven't yet raided on this char

too low ilvl

onyl did lfr

[shy pecan]

I just run 3 minutes nowadays

[ocean quiver]

from this

[runic hinge]

sounds like the right amount of cardio

[ocean quiver]

to t his

suppose it's better than nothing

[kind turtle]

Is Nightstalker (+10% in stealth/dance/subterfuge) the only buff that snapshots our dots? Anyone know

[shy pecan]

This is me in a weekly 10 playing Shock with some friends and a pug. Boss damage wasn't terrible either

[shy pecan]

Correct

[kind turtle]

ty

[shy pecan]

I forgot there's also shrouded suffocation when you use garrote from stealth

[spice surge]

Improved garrote*

Shrouded is only 2 cp from stealth

The 20% garrote damage is always active

[shy pecan]

mbmb

[quiet forge]

when do we use grieftorch vs ashes?

i mean if we run both when do we use each

[spice surge]

Ashes with cds grieftorch outside of cds

[quiet forge]

so on pull we go deathmark witgh ashes and grieftorch after

[spice surge]

ye

[quiet forge]

aight ty

[shy pecan]

@kind turtle FYI

[ocean quiver]

what key

[shy pecan]

10 Nelth

[ocean quiver]

almost had you in a 6

[shy pecan]

I mean, these numbers are arbitrary because of pull size and other things.

[ocean quiver]

I was 506 in that

so i'll take the advantage

our tank pulled like 2 mobs at a time

[rotund oak]

[shy pecan]

I mean, I dunno about that

I don't care about my overall if things like the bird, the mini-boss, or hunters die quick because of my CDs

[ocean quiver]

same

[rotund oak]

the main point is that u cant compare different keys and different routes

and different gear

there are so many parameters that are so off

[shy pecan]

But yeah, what sap said

Every key is different. The important thing is people aren't dying and key is completed in time to get a gauge of how well you're doing

[rotund oak]

if u go into a key to just top the meters and ignore the essential part u prolly dont care for the key either

eveyrone can do dmg

literally everyone

if u can top the meters while u top the interrupts,dont die and help ur team survive then u deserve the metal

[ocean quiver]

every key I go into the only thing I think about is dps ngl

[rotund oak]

we all do but its not what it matters the most,unless u go into a set premade which changes things

[ocean quiver]

I do same on my tank

just play dps build

to see how much I pump

[shy pecan]

Like I've done weeklies where I've seen people be top DPS but they have zero kicks and zero stops on like fort RLP weeks with incorp.

[rotund oak]

i rest my case

[junior aurora]

youll become a better player when you let go of things like damage

for m+ at least

[shy pecan]

Made the key go a lot less smooth because of it

[junior aurora]

the damage will come if your group is alive

[rotund oak]

but how will u post a screenshot afterwards if u are not topping it

to inflate ur ego

who cares about the key,can always pump until its timed

amirite?

[ocean quiver]

I've never really pushed m+ to the point where most of it matters tbf, like I kick the default stuff that needs kicking

and cc stuff

same for like raids

heroics are just too easy you can just ignore like 90% of mechanics

so I always just sit in everything and pop immunity for dps

Highest key I pushed was like a 25

[glacial stump]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[haughty flicker]

i'll die before i voluntarily become a better player

if im not top dps whats the point

[royal lantern]

my man

25 keys are above the paygrade for 99,99% of players

[ocean quiver]

Fr tho this a fact

[ocean quiver]

25 ain’t even that high people doing 33s that season I think

Or 32

[royal lantern]

mate

we talk about a handfull of people doing that

you somewhat overastimate how many people do m+ beyond the gear rewards

[ocean quiver]

I guess, but even this reason the highest I done was an 11 on my tank and it’s 525 💀

Ain’t pushed this season either

[royal lantern]

+11 is what a ~ 22 key was last season

[echo island]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[waxen oyster]

2 mob pull tanks always amaze me

[ocean quiver]

It was a sanguine incorp fortified week that I did the 25

[waxen oyster]

especially when they’re not undergeared

[ocean quiver]

I just did a 5 like an hour ago, 516 tank in Algathar pulled 1 of the big trees at a time

He was full hp the entire time

[waxen oyster]

probably was playing rageheart too

[ocean quiver]

Wouldn’t be surprised 💀

The bit before the void boss too he pulled 1 pack at a time

[potent raven]

playing so bad assa on smold

idk why it feels so much harder than sub lolol

[ocean quiver]

Is there a reason that the cruel dreamcarver sims so low?

is it because it can't sim the buff it's giving

[proven jasper]

The buff doesnt give any damage

[ocean quiver]

What does it give

I aint ever seen it before

[proven jasper]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[proven jasper]

You can choose one

[ocean quiver]

ohh

[proven jasper]

Its just a high ilvl dagger with a bit extra

[ocean quiver]

Idk if I should take that for my last bullion

This is my gear right now

[proven jasper]

I would

Put ur main hand in ur off and buy a dreamcarver and max it

Max ilvl mainhand is important

[ocean quiver]

Gonna be a while before I max it

but aight i'll do that

[proven jasper]

p sure thatll be ur biggest increase

[ocean quiver]

trinkets are like way up there

[proven jasper]

Those two are bait tbh

its just cuz ur trinkets arent maxed

[ocean quiver]

Ah

I already have boon

purchased it when I was playing outlaw start of szn

[heavy sentinel]

manic doesnt sim well because it doesnt count the resets

[proven jasper]

Like a maxxed ashes is going to be better than anything by fad

Yeah thats probably why

ashes+grief is basically bis

[runic hinge]

I'm gonna play nelths and just high roll

cause im built diff

[ocean quiver]

Sweet

[proven jasper]

Thats fair

Ashes+nelth is gigachad

[ocean quiver]

So I should max my main hand before trinkets?

[heavy sentinel]

yes

[ocean quiver]

Gotcha

what buff is best to take? or none of them matter just preference

[potent raven]

my cds dont align

for smold itnermissions

im so confused

[proven jasper]

Giant or beast probably

[ocean quiver]

probably take giant

[proven jasper]

Do you kb opener and hold dm for intermission

Thats how i did it in s3

[proven jasper]

Mech used to be the best but im p sure it got nerfed

and is useless now

[ocean quiver]

How long does the buff last?

[proven jasper]

Permanently

[ocean quiver]

Sweet

Now I just godda find a giant

[proven jasper]

I think near hoi there should be some

[ocean quiver]

ty

[proven jasper]

like near the catalyst place

[ocean quiver]

They're all elemental it seems

[potent raven]

ok i figured it

[heavy sentinel]

maybe the isle of giants in pandaland

[proven jasper]

You might be able to use the tank training dummy in val

might count as a giant as well

[ocean quiver]

Found them

[balmy condor]

I thought people took dragon cause giant doesn’t work

Did they fix giant

[proven jasper]

i thought mech was the one that broke

Wtf how many of them are broken

[proven jasper]

Speed reduced

Nvm fuck giant

[haughty flicker]

Just take critter

[proven jasper]

LOL

[ocean quiver]

-10 stats

what the

[proven jasper]

Yeah i guess dragon is the go to then now

[haughty flicker]

Ye

[proven jasper]

Theyre all so bad

[ocean quiver]

what the heck

[haughty flicker]

Take critter then top parse

[ocean quiver]

now i have to find a dragon

:(

[haughty flicker]

To flex

Brother it’s the dragon isles

[proven jasper]

Bro theres like a million

[slate crown]

Do it, I bet you won't.

[proven jasper]

ur in the dragon isles

LMAO

[ocean quiver]

never seen a dragon in my life

[proven jasper]

[balmy condor]

Mech was bugged and it didn’t trigger its cooldown so it was healing hella and then they fixed it so it just became crimson vial on a 3 min cd or something

[nimble zinc]

Lame 😦

[proven jasper]

yeah sounds about right

Very lame

[balmy condor]

Cause “cheat death” is actually just a 25% hp heal

Or something like that

[gusty mirage]

[ocean quiver]

Guess this new build is better I suppose

[spice surge]

10%

So ye, it aint great

[balmy condor]

TEN?

Yuck

[shy pecan]

10%? That’s Iike one of those refreshing health pots from S1!

[nimble zinc]

Are any of those dagger buffs worth getting?

Like I have a Dreamcarver but I’m not wearing cause my other daggers sim higher.

Same item level.

[spice surge]

The 10% speed is neat, but idk up to you

[nimble zinc]

We already have like baseline high speed as rogue tho

Better if it was avoidance or something.

[haughty flicker]

can never have too much speed

[nimble zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/hedgehog-sonic-sanik-running-gif-4601984215150332246

[haughty flicker]

more speed=more strafing=better gameplay

[nimble zinc]

Yeah I used to make that argument a lot. Why I always enchanted for speed instead of avoidance.

More Avoidance = less dmg from swirly.

But more speed = you get out of swirly and take no dmg 👍🏻

[haughty flicker]

idc about dodging swirlies

i mean obsessively spamming a and d while you fight

[nimble zinc]

Hmm 🤔

Yeah high content does require that kinda gameplay

[haughty flicker]

its not about requirements

its about feeling good

[ruby birch]

idk i would always take avoidance over speed

dagger just has no other good option

[ocean quiver]

Just use the fist weapon from the raid with the passive

and then you'll not be able to press 90% of your keys

but you get damage from the weapon so it's a +

[gilded oasis]

This mans a genius

[ocean quiver]

:)

ahead of the curve

[clever sapphire]

You outlaw now?

Ah didnt read the parts before

[spice spire]

Man and genius don’t belong together homie.
U of all people should know

[ocean quiver]

was originally outlaw

start of season

[ancient tangle]

Do you guyz reaches to never break the envenom chain on 5min figths ?

[runic hinge]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[junior aurora]

the longer you keep the chain going without dropping bleeds/cds the better but im not sure its possible to keep it up indefinitely doing that

[runic hinge]

just proc blindside more

[junior aurora]

Even with that tbh

[runic hinge]

Just proc!

[junior aurora]

proc this

[lunar thicket]

not sure what to use bullions on this week, got 1 wep, 2 rings, 2 trinkets

[untold igloo]

for non-deathmark kingsbane windows, do we care about shadowdance snapshot rupture? and 2nd question do we pool energy at all in last 8 seconds of nondeathmark kingsbanes as long as envenom buff stays up? if not, why are we bottoming out? what is applying to kingsbane growth off of gcds there

[shy pecan]

Could grab another weapon

[lunar thicket]

got 528 myth already on the secondary 😦

i could get the cloak, but its buggy

[shy pecan]

If you have all the stuff you want for the content you’re doing, then you’re set. Just spend them on mounts or whatever

[balmy condor]

we don't care about the shadowdance snapshot rupture ever

[untold igloo]

oh? why not? just envenom chain is better or?

[balmy condor]

it requires really precise timing that isn't consistent for like 0.1% extra dps

[untold igloo]

precise timing? im just talking the shiv>dance+kingsbane>garrote>envenom>build>rupture>shiv

like that one aint worth?

cuz not getting max pandemic value maybe or

[lunar thicket]

i guess i could get the Storm-eaters boon trinket for m+, i got manic grief + ashes

[untold igloo]

right so it's pretty near identical even when doin the end of deathmark+kingsbane snapshotting?

with vanish

[balmy condor]

yes

you just don't bother with it

it's not worth

[untold igloo]

i mean im in the habit long time now

so if it's close

[balmy condor]

where did you get that habit from even

[untold igloo]

idk i remember seeing in a guide do the vanish last 3 sec of kingsbane and reapply bleeds there

[balmy condor]

rupture snapshotting was something we were talking about for like the ptr and the first week of season 3

but the tier was buffed

and it was just never really worth it after that

[untold igloo]

ok sweet good to know tyvm

what about gcds during kingsbane

ever pool or always sending everything?

[junior aurora]

fill them

[balmy condor]

pooling is the concept of taking your energy during downtime and using it during cooldowns

so send

that's what you pooled for

[untold igloo]

why are we full sending is my question

[balmy condor]

because its your cooldowns and you're doing big deeps

[untold igloo]

like if we are last 4 seconds of kingsbane with envenom buff for the rest and @ 50 energy

no pot, no lust, no pi, no trinket

are gcds increasing kingsbane damage or?

[balmy condor]

well if you're in shiv

you're in cooldowns

and that's dps

so you send

[slate crown]

Gcd = poison proc chance

boosts poisons onto kb

more kb dmg

[balmy condor]

what

[untold igloo]

trueee, that's fair. is it just shiv? like are gcds poison procs?

[balmy condor]

what

the fuck are we doing

[untold igloo]

what gcds are poison proc chances?

[balmy condor]

shiv = damage
damage = good
use things during damage

that's the logic

no more no less

[forest nacelle]

i can hear the brain of whysper just dying a little inside.

[balmy condor]

you get 90% of your poison procs from auto attacks the gcds are irrelevant

[untold igloo]

right so

last 4 seconds of kingsbane, besides shiv running alongside it

im bottoming out on energy. spamming envenoms just means ill be pooling like 10 gcds after this cd window for sanguine blades

[balmy condor]

yes

[untold igloo]

isn't the only reason shiv then

that's what im asking

WHY am i doing this

[balmy condor]

shiv

tea

damage increasing effects

[untold igloo]

because this just isn't true right?

[balmy condor]

I mean casting abilities does apply poisons

[untold igloo]

oh? like mutilate

[balmy condor]

yes

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/stands-online-gif-22021024

[untold igloo]

see idk how poison even work. does everything put poison on

[balmy condor]

yes

it's a % chance on every ability and auto attack

[untold igloo]

ok sweet then it's for shiv + tea if u have running but prob mostly for kingsbane

that'll be totally troll not to bottom out on energy if mutilates and envenoms can contribute

[balmy condor]

am I not speaking english

[untold igloo]

i didnt know this

[forest nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/umm-um-ummm-ummok-puppet-gif-17038634

[untold igloo]

naw u do be im just wonderin why bottoming out is the play

[balmy condor]

envenom during shiv is good

[untold igloo]

ye it do truck

i simply wanted know why bottom out during last bit of kingsbane is worth instead of just preppin the pool yaknow

[balmy condor]

yes

it's because of shiv and tea

increasing you damage dealt

it is not because poisons

[untold igloo]

shiv and tea more important then building bigger kingsbane u mean

big prio over sanguine blades uptime

[balmy condor]

you don't control building your kingsbanee

[untold igloo]

huh. i mean if muts and envenoms have chance for increase size

[balmy condor]

you have the envenom buff up, which you will because you're spamming envenom during shiv

and the rest handles itself

you can't stop it

muts and envenoms have a chance to add 2 poisons

in 1 second

when you're autoing 8 times a second

and the auto attacks can apply 2 poisons

who gives a fuck about your mut

you're pouring a glass of water into the ocean

yes there is more water

but no one cares

[untold igloo]

ahhh

like icing on the kingsbane

[forest nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-sea-dog-gif-10539169426521065658

such a sad mut

[balmy condor]

yeh just wait till you hear about ambush

[forest nacelle]

welp...

[balmy condor]

we love deathstalker just making mutilate do straight up more damage than ambush

incredible

who will win, spammable filler

or ability that's competing with garrote during very limited windows every 2 minutes

[spice surge]

I love envenom doing comparable damage to an entire garrote

[manic quartz]

i would love chadgigamega bleed build possibility for assa at some point

[balmy condor]

12.0 maybe

[manic quartz]

loved shrouded suffocation garrote in bfa 😄

[dull cloak]

for sin, the deaths talker mark applied only from ambush is a head scratch, wonder if they will ever consider changing it

[balmy condor]

I'd sure hope so

[spice surge]

Ye the sin+sub hero talent is likely to introduce some rupture/bleed related buffs so im sure that will happens once they reveal that tree

[balmy condor]

very true

they both share rupture after all

I mean it's not hard to think of effects for that

at minimum we'll at least have a tree that won't be full of filler talents

[spice spire]

Deathstalker changed to death rupture

[dull cloak]

make rupture ramp damage like agony would be neat

[spice surge]

Just gut all the other nodes, put all of the power into the capstone

[balmy condor]

already an improvement

[spice surge]

Big envenom big bonk

[solar tangle]

shadowflame patch vs blue line silken sims for me almost the same.. trying to move my outlaw gear slowly to assa.. i can trust the sim or go for 2x blue line silken? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4ErXn76WnKJaKDDEaCHsyw (dont have a lot ressources to "craft" everything perfect..)

[balmy condor]

you can trust the sim ofc

but as you fully swap your gear over

[spice surge]

So they sim the same on singletarget, but one of them is exclusively singletarget and one is for aoe as well

[balmy condor]

patch will get worse as well

[solar tangle]

okay ty 🙂

[slate crown]

Answering this question: #assassination message

[balmy condor]

I wasn't questioning you

[shy pecan]

I will though

[agile locust]

what are the top two embellishments for sin rogues?

[balmy condor]

1. blue silk lining
2. blue silk lining

[agile locust]

on which items?

[balmy condor]

whatever your crafted gear is

belt, wrists, ring

neck

doesn't matter

[agile locust]

ty

[balmy condor]

np

I logged in to check a bug the other day and saw a dude with blue silk on a cloak

that was pretty chad

[onyx rampart]

Do you use a dungeon slice to sim m+ assa gear? Can't find info in any of the pins

[balmy condor]

yes

[onyx rampart]

Fab

[balmy condor]

its shit

[inner pelican]

wtf

[balmy condor]

but it's the best available

[balmy condor]

[onyx rampart]

What qualifies as excessive

[inner pelican]

2 ebon mights 2 pi's

[balmy condor]

more than 1 priests worth of power infusions

aug doesn't matter

aug damage is removed

so you could have a billion for all it cares

[balmy condor]

but if you get more than 1 pi every 2 min

that's too many

yeh

[inner pelican]

maybe a 2nd priest lol

[slate crown]

Count 4

[balmy condor]

4 pi's in 3 min

that's too many

[inner pelican]

thats cooked

[balmy condor]

only allowed to get 1 pi every 2 min

[onyx rampart]

Can you just use a stance dependent macro for Ambush/Mutilate or do you need separate keybinds for both for assa?

Like, is it something you use during shadow dance

[slate crown]

You can use a stance macro if you use something that prevents your stealth bar like elvui

if you use default bars, just put mutilate and ambush on the same button slot

Or, alternatively, just press mutilate instead of ambush and have the bars be identical, blindside replaces the button anyways so it doesn't matter for that

[onyx rampart]

So you don't ambush during subterfuge?

[slate crown]

Subterfuge uses your stealth bar

So if ambush is in the same spot as mutilate, you push that same button and it will cast

Or if you don't use default bars, a stance dependent macro will flip them

[onyx rampart]

Excellent, thank you

[bitter trout]

Just double checking I am not losing my mind there isn't anything wrong with this right https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vXK271H8AQmf8kHUw9FteT

Just need a sanity check

[balmy condor]

yah seems pretty skewed but not unreasonable

insane amount of vers

dropping vers for X is good

neck has crit, getting more crit is better

getting haste instead is much better

looks good to me

[bitter trout]

Cool, i'm outlaw getting assa gear is all

That's why my vers is omega high

[balmy condor]

yeh

[bitter trout]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4yhVjSWG69nzW2CTqkqgcj

This looks fine

With sims this close between that ring and cloak, is it worth taking the ring over the cloak or is the uptime on cloak buff decent enough that it doesn't matter?

I mean with margin of error anyway it's pretty much the same tbh

[balmy condor]

people tend to not like the cloak

it's awful uptime and breaks stealth in m+

it's a good cloak don't get me wrong

but if they're equal

I'm def going ring

[bitter trout]

Ye that was my thinking cheers

what is like the haste % most ppl are sitting on with full mythic atm

[royal python]

25-30%

[bitter trout]

tyty

[onyx rampart]

Hmm, tried a stance dependent macro for ambush/mutilate but it's not working properly during shadow dance. My bars however do change during shadow dance if I enable that to use stealth bars.

If I do use stealth bars, what abilities would I need on them? Aside from utility stuff, it's ambush rupture garrote that's used in stealth or shadow dance in the standard rotation?

[ocean quiver]

You guys hitting numbers like this?

didn't think so

[shy pecan]

[barren yarrow]

with garrote?

i mean its pretty common for that to be high

is there a UI help area? i cant remember how to toggle details so vanish doesnt break the meters

[spice surge]

!details

[prisma monolith]

To stop details from resetting on vanish, go into the settings and under Overall Data, make sure "Use Dynamic Overall Damage" is checked.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1173432355785027584/details_vanish.png

[barren yarrow]

mmm there it is

ty

[slate crown]

I literally make my stealthbar identical to my non stealth bar, except the mutilate -> ambush flip

[barren yarrow]

this^

[slate crown]

(Even that is a lie, my bars are just identical, I don't even press ambush, I only press mutilate because of bar delay nonsense I don't want to get into, it's close enough)

If I could disable blizzard bar swapping on the default bars

I would

But alas I cannot

[spice surge]

Well for some reason blizzard has tuned mutilate to be better to use than ambush anyway

So you can just keep mutilate on both since it auto swaps to ambush during blindside now

[ancient tangle]

Does tea (mastery) increase the Envenom's instant dmg ?

[grave osprey]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[spice surge]

Envenom scales with mastery yes

@ancient tangle

[ancient tangle]

Ok didn't know this as I thought it was just nature dmg but not a poison

Thx 🙂

[spice surge]

Ye the tooltips for assa regarding poisons are horrible

[ancient tangle]

Ye 😂

[balmy condor]

you can kinda assume that everything nature damage works with caustic/shiv/mastery/zold

[ancient tangle]

Ok 👍

[spice surge]

If it says "weapon poisons" or "lethal poisons" its typically only the ones you apply to your weapon (aka deadly/amplify), but if it says "poisons" its usually all nature damage

[ancient tangle]

Ok

Thx 🙂

And Shiv (Arterial Precision) doesn't snapshot bleeds isn't it ? (Garotte, rupture)

[spice surge]

It does not

[ancient tangle]

Ok thx 🙂

[spice surge]

When the shiv buff is up, bleeds will do more damage, and when it falls of, it will do less again

[ancient tangle]

Yes thx 😊👍

[waxen oyster]

How bad is getting spriest PI nowadays

[slate crown]

Yeah I made a TC post after my frustrations with the bar swapping showing that ambush is only just barely better than mutilate and that exclusively using mutilate instead was not enough of a loss for me to care at all, basically equal, to justify my decision. Now it appears this is just going to be the case in tww anyways

[spice surge]

Its already the case in DF right now too

[slate crown]

I think iirc my testing was with imp ambush too, I don't remember exactly the sims are expired

thus with the swap to tight spender

yeah

[ancient tangle]

Also regarding Ashes is it best to use it before Deathmark or at 11sec left of KingsBane like on the current assa APL ?

[slate crown]

Just macro it to kb if you only raid

If you do M+ and potentially have slight offsets in KB and don't want to send a non-DM ashes by mistake, just macro it to deathmark

If you're pressing it manually, press with kb

[ancient tangle]

But what is the optimal ? The current apl still have it on 11sec left on KB

[balmy condor]

11 sec left or with kb

[ancient tangle]

Ok so using it before DM is not good

It's too early ?

[balmy condor]

correct

using with DM is technically too early as well

but its minor enough to not really matter

[ancient tangle]

Ok thx 🙂 using with KB means just before it right ? :p

I'm asking because I see logs using it just after and I don't understand

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter

[ancient tangle]

It does increase the instant dmg of KB isn't it ?

[balmy condor]

yeah but that means it would also tick down before a tick

instead of after

as long as its in the kb macro

it doesn't matter

[ancient tangle]

Oh ok the increase for the instant dmg is not big then

[balmy condor]

correct

[ancient tangle]

Ok thx 😅

[bitter trout]

What's the simc default for assas runes?

wep runes that is

[spice surge]

Crit

[nimble zinc]

yeah diurna ring is gonna be my purchase this week

i dont want cloak if it breaks stealth in m+ thats stupid

[rotund vigil]

Anyone here good at looking at logs? Trying to figure out why my envenoms are doing so much less than others - using 5+ env during kb window but the env casts themselves seem to be hitting for like 40% less overall than someone elses during heroic run earlier I was running to try to figure out where im missing dmg

will drop it here in case anyone can put eyes on

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/QpNTmaH2MnPy4ZCv/self#fight=1,1&source=11,20

really not sure what im missing. similar stats, hitting for similar combo pt during kb window I think wracking my brain against it ><

[ocean quiver]

No, talking about my mutilate damage

[balmy condor]

just less pad from what it looks like

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/QpNTmaH2MnPy4ZCv/self#fight=1,1&type=damage-done&source=11,20&start=6898,6898&end=17920,17920&target=72,72

got an extra envenom on the adds and a couple extra crits from tier

poison bomb proccing another time

[rotund vigil]

specifically im looking at env dmg not overall dps unless the pad / crit adds to the env dmg and im dumb

[balmy condor]

yeh if you open the dropdown

envenom includes tier/poison bomb

[rotund vigil]

Thnx for pointing that out

It seemed pretty consistent throughout the entire run but I didnt look fight by fight to see if it is pad across the board. He was definitely getting buffed whereas I was not.

[balmy condor]

yeh his average envenom casts themselves are a bit higher, haven't quite figured that out

but it's not as extreme as it originally seems

[rotund vigil]

thats where i was scratching my head but yea the pad and rng from tier and pb def added to it a bit

[rotund vigil]

Also curios of your opnion, in KB window do you think its better to hit as many env as possible w. lower combo pts or 5 or more always ?

[balmy condor]

rule is 4+

less sucks, 5 is okay, forcing to 6 is awful

[slate crown]

ur saying forcing max cp envenoms are awful eh?

That sucks, I'm going to hate it if that's something we have to do

[balmy condor]

I can't escape

[shy pecan]

Same

Halp

[balmy condor]

@rotund vigil I figured it out

did a great job hiding it

he's blue, you're red

he's forcing himself to 5/6 a lot of the time

so the average envenom is just gonna be higher cause more cp

[shy pecan]

How do you see how much they finish on?

[balmy condor]

and he doesn't get less casts than you because of PI and no overcap

[rotund vigil]

PI strikes again

[balmy condor]

table resources combo points

[rotund vigil]

Thank you for digging into it with me, I sincerely appreciate it. Now I just have to figure out how Zerocool hits 6m+ KB windows

[shy pecan]

Yeah, was there, but didn't see for when he finished with envenom specifically?

Sorry, shoulda been more clear on that

[balmy condor]

no

[shy pecan]

k, was gonna say that aside from having to hover over the points, you could filter them? 😛

[balmy condor]

most end up being envenoms anyway cause rup is like once every 30 sec

so can kinda just assume they're all envenoms

[shy pecan]

True

Didn't think about that

[rotund vigil]

I'll get this all mastered just in time for tww rework to change it all up 🤣

[heavy sentinel]

would it be possible to make a weakaura that makes a sound when kb is 3 secs left so i can remember to vanish when it screams at me

or does one already exist

[balmy condor]

that is possible

should be able to add condition that plays a sound

[runic hinge]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[runic hinge]

in there in LE's profile there's a kb timer bar thing

and you can add sound effects for the different points

[heavy sentinel]

ahh ty

[ocean quiver]

2.2m something light

still unsure how it even works tbf

only seems to proc from kingsbane being up

[balmy condor]

what exactly are we looking at

[ocean quiver]

sudden demise

[balmy condor]

ah

[ocean quiver]

I read the tooltip but like

[balmy condor]

big sudden demise is entirely based around deathmark

[ocean quiver]

some pulls it just aint working

oh

[balmy condor]

if you got a big deathmark, you'll get a big pop

[ocean quiver]

gotcha

[slate crown]

accelerating sandglass

it's always fucking accelerating sandglass

make it stop

3rd in a row

[ember mural]

blizz is telling you to play remix

⏳

[unreal parcel]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[oak eagle]

ive gotten the same pair of boots off the first boss 3 weeks in a row, and havent seen a piece of loot off the second boss yet

[balmy condor]

I have huge tech for this actually

it's worked great for me this season

just simply don't play

and then you don't need the dagger

[oak eagle]

whispyr

that tech

is great

but you see

some of us are addicts

and cant not play

[balmy condor]

unfortunate

end of expansion break is basically required for me

I'm a fiend for new content

fated season is a slog

[spice spire]

Log OUT brother

[gilded oasis]

LOG ON BROTHER

[spice spire]

No man

[gilded oasis]

I almost died in a key to bring you that message

[spice spire]

Doz is sooner to see me outside his house than in game

Serves you right for still running keys bozo

Log OUT

Wait you’re apping rn aren’t you

[balmy condor]

zar not an elitist jerk anymore?

[gilded oasis]

yeah figured I should try even though it doesnt matter they arent raiding anymore this tier

[gusty mirage]

Ye and I’m no longer Mad

[gilded oasis]

I will always be a jerk but I am no longer elitist

[spice spire]

Damn

[gusty mirage]

She never recovered from Ion never logging back on

Truly a tragedy

[gilded oasis]

[spice spire]

Can she really iond in chat now

[gusty mirage]

Yes

[spice spire]

O

[gilded oasis]

Brother I was Ionding long before I was in EJ

[spice spire]

O

[gusty mirage]

Tell him zar

[spice spire]

Azar

[gusty mirage]

Autocorrect fuck you

Bitch

[spice spire]

I might

[gilded oasis]

I have a huge folder of ion memes from interviews. most stolen from this discord

[spice spire]

Real

[gusty mirage]

Grungle my balls on your face

[gilded oasis]

gotttem

[spice spire]

I might

[gusty mirage]

How funny is it that you resubbed and I quit

Pretty funny eh

[spice spire]

I haven’t resubbed

[gusty mirage]

What do you do now that you don’t play wow

[gilded oasis]

constantly gooning

[spice spire]

Work/George/Working out/cook/clean/sleep/repeat M-F

[gusty mirage]

I do all of this except sleep and George

What now

[spice spire]

Idk I’ve been sleeping more than 4 hours a night

Clap for me

[gilded oasis]

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Also did community service for a bit

Cut back on that since mom had surgery

[gusty mirage]

I do that every time I entertain these apes

[spice spire]

Just been enjoying life

Same

You think I’m just a content machine and I’m not trying to entertain, ur wild

[gusty mirage]

I wish I could monetize how entertaining I am

[gilded oasis]

[spice spire]

Ban everyone who doesn’t pay u

Ez

[thorn fjord]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[runic hinge]

i need bis so i can get to 80 asap in the rich people acess

[earnest remnant]

weird flex but okay

[glass hemlock]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[grim jay]

You mean

Swap out your gear a quest later

[runic hinge]

Maybe it’ll last me to like 73 instead of 72 if I get to 525

[grim jay]

Wait you arent 525?

[runic hinge]

Nah I haven’t been playing a lot

Plus I played spriest for like a month before I was like idk what I’m doing maybe I suck

[grim jay]

FOTM

[runic hinge]

Well I didn’t know it was fotm. I just think they have the coolest animations in the game

[glass hemlock]

can you get 525 tier gear?

Assume it just comes from vault or does hero gear scale that high

[waxen oyster]

mythic raid

goes to 528

[glass hemlock]

Oh

Well that’s not gonna happen

[waxen oyster]

I've been full 528 tier for like over a month

[slate crown]

!up - here's some sources of gear by ilvl

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923898501529600/1233411543421681724/rl7mgpak53rc1.webp

[slate crown]

M+ vault slots from doing keys 8+ give Myth track as well

[primal jolt]

hello pumpers

now tell me where can i pick up a deathstalker role to have next to my name

[glass hemlock]

Hey, how do we proc the raid rings…? Or meh?

[balmy condor]

helm enchant

grieftorch

[grim jay]

Been full 528 tier since week 3

Vault hates me

[inland glacier]

Hello everyone, poison lovers, tell me why everyone runs around with these particular talents?

It just seems to me that this build is much stronger. He just has a problem with gaining energy

[grim jay]

Sin in general is energy starved in ST

In aoe aswell if you dont spread enough

The build you prefer plays way better in lower keys

Like below +15-16ish

The other one has a little higher target scaling and doesnt rely on execute at all

But overall they should be fairly similar

[inland glacier]

thanks a lot for the explanation!

[grim jay]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[grim jay]

If you didnt know and struggle with the St energy

[primal jolt]

bros im dying of heat

i wont live long enough to play deathstalker in live servers

its like fucking 69°C

[royal lantern]

a blessing

[lament belfry]

Is there a quick way to summarise how to max dps on igara mythic?

Do we just let caustic take care of spears?

[royal lantern]

yes

[lament belfry]

So ignore FoK?

[royal lantern]

yes

hope they are properly stacked and that the others dont instantly aoe them down (they will)

[grim jay]

Foking isnt bad as long as you hit enough of them

Might wanna have a range WA

For fok

[lament belfry]

ty guys

[south token]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[primal jolt]

me when yellow name

[grim jay]

Its the color of the spec you picked

Outlaw in your case