ah ok
#assassination
latent copper
rotund oak
im stacking mast/vers for keys now
it feels fine
but the keys are in the
''whatever'' territory
slate crown
keen spruce
“Systematic design issues and core gameplay problems 
“
*6% buff
“This shit smooth as a pad of butter melting on a big Ol’ pile of flapjacks”
balmy condor
need me a corpo boyfriend that'll circle back with me on that point in the next face to face
we'll have an action plan ready for the next sprint (he's going to get me a milkshake from wendy's for dinner)
copper hazel
just make sure you drill down into those KPIs
copper hazel
take it offline guys
keen spruce
I didn’t get a scrum master certification to use it 
balmy condor
shmeeps I'm gonna need you to escalate that ticket and loop in kyle so we can push this before the freeze
thanks
copper hazel
that shit me up, my name is actually Kyle 😄
copper hazel
a fellow kyle
slate crown
scana is also a kyle
Why does this make sense to me
keen spruce
He’ll come back 
silk bane
need me a corpo boyfriend that'll circle back with me on that point in the next ...
I VOLUNTEER
balmy condor
not if we keep up all the wars we got 
bro's gonna be fixing planes until he's old and grey
keen spruce
We’re just paying for them we’re not involved
silk bane
shmeeps I'm gonna need you to escalate that ticket and loop in kyle so we can pu...
want me to slack them to see whats the bottleneck?
keen spruce
I wonder if they’d let me enlist at my age and fly C-130s or something
oak sky
Wow throwback name
keen spruce
They big short on pilots rn
balmy condor
want me to slack them to see whats the bottleneck?
yeah for sure just set up a meeting and get everyone onboarded
royal lantern
stop taking pictures of me
balmy condor
stop taking pictures of me
spice spire
Real
spice spire
That explains so much bestie
balmy condor
acceptance is a big step to recovery
royal lantern
what is that supposed to tell me
balmy condor
put on the mitts with the toe beans and look at yourself in the mirror
spice spire
dont wanna grow more
Think he means cock, king
royal lantern
spice spire
Ahh
empty tide
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wide ferry
So apparently the neck gems are calling for haste? Sim look ok? Never had that before
Well, Vers/haste to be exact but still lol
boreal cloud
Keep in mind the 1.5% dps difference is between non-socketed and socketed neck
If you already had gems in your neck the difference would be much smaller
golden ravine
for art shock don't you want tiny toxic blade instead of blindside?
junior aurora
you dont care about the shiv damage, you care about the bleed amp it puts on the targets
golden ravine
wouldn't the no energy cost change stat priority a bit though? that might explain the rec of haste/vers
junior aurora
haste gives almost 0 energy regen, its like 10% haste per 1 energy a second
and also blindside probably gives about as much energy over a fight as ttb would if not more
the neck gems are probably calling for haste bc he probably has less haste than other stats, assa likes all stats so when one is lower its gonna sim higher
boreal cloud
In multi target you should never have energy problems
elfin monolith
Hey all, cruel dreamcarver is simming about 200 dps more than betrayer's cinderblade. Is it worth it to manage another active effect? Or do I just macro the active with mutilate?
boreal cloud
You need to use the ability once
junior aurora
200 dps sounds within margin of error
elfin monolith
Ooh
boreal cloud
Whats the command
elfin monolith
I thought it was temporary, okay okay
I see here, yeah command didn't work but I got it
Thanks!
junior aurora
yeah bots dead atm
elfin monolith
Oh okay
boreal cloud
Leech is pog
elfin monolith
Aight, thanks guys
junior aurora
they’re all pretty fake tbh
junior aurora
10% under 50% is meaningless im sorry
boreal cloud
Lemme find log
junior aurora
maybe in a previous version of wow but todays wow everything either kills you or doesnt kill you
boreal cloud
Idk the leech is noticeable when you proc cheat death for example
Or when healer dies in M+
Leech is fake if you dont have a lot
But with assa talents and maybe 1 leech enchant or leech tertiary youre at 25% below 50% HP
balmy condor
Just for the record
You’re under 50% hp, on average
Less than 2% of the time
So you gotta be REALLY sure that the leech during that 2% is going to be impactful
past forum
Less than 2% of the time
I guess if we’re omitting time spent dead for this then yeah that sounds more plausible
nimble zinc
dudes assa rogue is so much fun rn.
probably the most fun ive ever had on dps class
pug into a heroic raid and be the top dps even though theres ppl higher ilvl than me
i'm gonna be cringe sad panda when they rework it in TWW 😐
silk bane
They’re not reworking it
nimble zinc
Someone was telling me they’re getting rid of shadow dance and all the increased dmg stealth talents and nerfing KB …
Sounds like a rework to me
Like not gonna be a PI target anymore
balmy condor
“All the increased dmg stealth talents”
You mean all one of them
Idk how much a rework it is when the only meaningful change atm is just “kb does less damage”
nimble zinc
Idk how much a rework it is when the only meaningful change atm is just “kb does...
Yeah but that makes me sad. Why nerf a good thing.
A friend was telling me it’s like a net loss of 25%
balmy condor
Because you’re far into the minority on that opinion
Kingsbane is suffocating for the spec currently
faint coral
dudes assa rogue is so much fun rn.
Im playing it now in remix and...I have to agree Sin looks incredibly fun to try.
Though yes given theres the broken tinkets etc
The playstyle feels fun asf
nimble zinc
Kingsbane is suffocating for the spec currently
Huh?
balmy condor
It’s so far out of the realm of reasonable balance even after the amirdrassil nerf
Like the entire spec revolves around hitting the right crits in a 3 second window every 2 minutes
elfin monolith
10% under 50% is meaningless im sorry
I think we missed a crucial point in this discussion
less fall damage is bis
balmy condor
Everything into kingsbane is just stifling the spec
It is what it is
Most people hate being a pi target too, more of a curse than a blessing
junior aurora
less fall damage is bis
get a mouseover shadowstep bind and never take fall damage again
nimble zinc
Oh interesting.
elfin monolith
get a mouseover shadowstep bind and never take fall damage again
ah but you assume I have any level of reflexes
no you're right, just sometimes i panic/forget
balmy condor
get a mouseover shadowstep bind and never take fall damage again
But if I jump off a cliff there’s nothing to mouseover
I can’t mouseover a blade of grass
junior aurora
But if I jump off a cliff there’s nothing to mouseover
if u at terminal velocity that dagger aint gonna save you either
elfin monolith
True. I assumed he would say something about there being random monsters but yeah
balmy condor
if u at terminal velocity that dagger aint gonna save you either
What if I shadow clone jutsu and stack the clones under me like a big accordion
junior aurora
ud be playing the wrong spec
elfin monolith
Disappointed
junior aurora
u gonna vanish midair to reset ur shadow clone jutsu cd too?
balmy condor
Disappointed
Bro got killed by gravity 💀 can’t even 1v1 basic laws of physics holy you’re cooked
junior aurora
is it raging week
elfin monolith
Bro got killed by gravity 💀 can’t even 1v1 basic laws of physics holy you’re co...
I just uninstalled don't worry
elfin monolith
screen went grayscale, that's what it means right, we're done
junior aurora
game of thrones rules, you get greyscale its incurable
elfin monolith
lmao
full summit
is sin good in m+
maybe cus i havent played in a hot minute but i aint pumping like i did beginning of s3
earnest remnant
Assa does very good dmg in keys
full summit
is there a specific build cus mine doesn't seem to be doing much
earnest remnant
dunno i just run with a Standard Crimson tempest Sudden demise build
earnest remnant
and did like 940k overall in an AA earlier this week
earnest remnant
BMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQSkkIBAAAAAAItkItkAAAAAAAtWSCSgkkSKBRkEJJJJRrViEA
pretty much just that
fallen arch
Send it on cd
full summit
kk
fallen arch
On the biggest mob in a group
full summit
kk
full summit
170k overall in a +2 brackenhide at 481 ilvl after not playing sin for 8 months am i cooked?
( ihavent played wow in almost 3 months lol)
fallen arch
Did you have fun?
full summit
yes ofc
fallen arch
Then why stress over dps in a +2
fallen arch
Get gear, practice and have fun
hot vortex
they used to have bis helmet
royal lantern
that shit was never "bis" 
hot vortex
ok anyway
hot vortex
We all took engineering and had the helmet
glove enchant and boots
you prob had something better at 25 heroic but idr
slate crown
you prob had something better at 25 heroic but idr
Just a stab in the dark, are you talking about cataclysm?
hot vortex
WotLK
slate crown
Yeah this is mostly a retail channel
#classic-discussion for more about classic stuff
hot vortex
so i play retail but last expansion i played was wrath
the expectation in raids back then was you took engeineering for the buffs. is that not the same as now
slate crown
That hasn't been the case for a very very long time
hot vortex
thank you
balmy condor
Pretty much everything power wise has been removed from professions
Cause they didn’t want 85% of the population being engineers go figure
hot vortex
oh thats pretty cool
I'll have to look at some stuff and see if its still worth taking
hopefully we can still get the boots
i think was a belt echant or osmething
balmy condor
I don’t think that’s a thing this expac
Think most of the value of engineering these days is portals
balmy condor
They can also craft bombs or something but I think they share cd with combat pots so no one uses them
I’m not really too familiar with it tbh
balmy condor
All I know is the wormhole stuff and that some people craft a helmet
slate crown
I think this is literally the only combat interacting profession thing right now?
And a second point that does the same thing doubling the effect
So alchemists take less damage from the negative side effects of some flasks, which we do use as our primary flask (Phial, Corrupting Rage)
But it's not a damage increase at all
just a defensive perk
balmy condor
and a tiny one at that
slate crown
Yeh
balmy condor
the damage taken from those things is pretty small
balmy condor
yeah it was puzzle box
there's some weird rule I'm not remember
like if it's a damaging channel, you don't auto
but if it's a passive channel you do
but even that's kinda inconsistent I think
earnest remnant
beacon
balmy condor
there's some ancient forbidden knowledge from bfa that I remember from that
probably just a case by case basis tbh
font was kinda whack too wasn't it
rotund oak
i think was a belt echant or osmething
for rogues best profs prolly still engineer/enchanting unless u wanna ditch engi for alchemy,provided u wanna do keys and raids n stuff.Flasks and pots are fairly costly
lean portal
flasks lasting forever is cool y
royal lantern
for rogues best profs prolly still engineer/enchanting unless u wanna ditch engi...
or you just say "there is no benefit beyond "flask last longer on alchemist if you wanna save a bit money on flasks i gues"
because thats how it is
professions dont matter, they are gold making tools
slate crown
Honestly for repeated crafts, given the nature of race-to-the-bottom market dynamics, being the profession that crafts a commodity does not really reduce the cost to you unless you minmax it to the extreme compared to just buying it outright. Almost every commodity craft is crafted at a loss now if you look purely at the cost of the item vs cost of the mats. It's hard to recommend the profession simply for personal use perks of being able to craft the item yourself, you only really see gold-benefit of it if you're crafting at scale, at which point you're probably already in a place where you aren't hurting on gold
You do gain the longer flask duration, that's helpful
rotund oak
professions dont matter, they are gold making tools
yeah pretty much,u get to save or make gold by proccing stuff
slate crown
but potions are the same regardless
slate crown
Well but also professions aren't important to the character anymore
rotund oak
ye u make gold or save gold
no impact
or close to minimal
even for crafting ones
some early powerspike
nothing more
slate crown
Can just have the profession on an alt
royal lantern
? you let somone else craft it for you
rotund oak
engi does have some utility like cr
slate crown
doesn't matter
rotund oak
u cant craft engi head
slate crown
you don't need engi for the cr
royal lantern
like @slate crown said, you dont even save gold on most professions
royal lantern
engi does have some utility like cr
everyone can have that one
rotund oak
everyone can have that one
yeah
the only restriction is engi head
u need to have engineer
royal lantern
and head is also a tier slot 
slate crown
At this point you only save gold if you A) have shitloads of mettle built up, but that's limited, or B) are minmaxing the profession with near max KP and/or the applicable racial perks for the profession, margins on commodity crafts are so slim right now
and have been for a while
rotund oak
not for all specs 
rotund oak
and have been for a while
idk in general ive made alot of gold abusing engineer crafts and alchemy crafts
slate crown
The mettle bit is good though, like I'm alch and I was able to craft rage phials crazy cheap and made like 800 of them with excess mettle I had sitting around at ~600g profit per craft, so I was able to stash away my own personal supply while making a bunch off of it
rotund oak
but ive already had alot so its fine
slate crown
but now I'm out of mettle and can't do that again
slate crown
I had like 2k mettle sitting around
rotund oak
ive farmed some stuff but now my rogue is in the point of low mettle as well but s4 doesnt rly matter
profs now are irrelevant thats true
hexed frost
What's the talent most people running in 10+ keys right now? DTB+Arterial w/o CT? DTB+Sudden demise w/o CT?
Do people run CT at all in keys now?
rotund oak
arterial shock @hexed frost check the build
is the best all arounder until u start pushing higher keys and there is higher demand on ST
lean portal
ct in fort weeks is cool
rotund oak
then u go hybrid iirc
but i think overall the difference in ST between those two is like
not rly alot
earnest remnant
FULL PAD LETS GO
rotund oak
personally inlove with arterial shock coz u get to cheese the meters with SD
hexed frost
is the best all arounder until u start pushing higher keys and there is higher d...
Which build fares better on higher keys?
rotund oak
Which build fares better on higher keys?
hybrid but depends
should ask zerocool
habibi highkey pusher
hexed frost
royal lantern
FULL PAD LETS GO
its only padding when others do it
grand trail
Wow that dearhstalker wowhead post was deep
latent copper
my Luxthos WA dont show me Indiscriminate Carnage....any idea how i can put it in?
normal mist
They should be glowing in your bars (rupture and garrote)
latent copper
ahh ty
hexed frost
@rotund oak so i tried the DTB+SD+CT build, was running the DTB+AP(Cleave ) build earlier. It's only a +2 on my assa alt but man having CT is such a button bloat, i'm losing envenom uptime on prio targets
grim jay
<@363351758765948929> so i tried the DTB+SD+CT build, was running the DTB+AP(Cle...
Well envenom uptime is kinda the last point in your prio list in aoe
And CT shouldnt do much in that regard anyways as its just one finisher
fleet wedge
hi all, simple question. on single target when exactly do you use Grieftouch? I am currently doing - pre stealth - Garrote - Ambush - Rupture - Grieftouch then rotation as normal
grim jay
hi all, simple question. on single target when exactly do you use Grieftouch? I ...
After DM
You want ashes or whatever onuse with dm which you would delay otherwise
fleet wedge
You want ashes or whatever onuse with dm which you would delay otherwise
yes exactly, I have macrod DM to Ashes
grim jay
yes exactly, I have macrod DM to Ashes
Yeah and if you use torch, ashes has 20s cooldown
So it wont work if you torch first
And DM right after
So you can just do your opener with dm and use torch as its up again
Due to the CD ashes triggers on torch
grim jay
hi all, simple question. on single target when exactly do you use Grieftouch? I ...
That one would lead to you not using ashes at all until second deathmark
If you just macroed it
rotund oak
<@363351758765948929> so i tried the DTB+SD+CT build, was running the DTB+AP(Cle...
should revisit the guides and have a look on the faq,sin although a str8 forward specc it has some depth in how u press stuff
cant spam mindlessly
in general CT does alot of dmg but in m+ spatter does the most dmg,garrote is one of the highest if not the highest dmg source
and need to be very disciplined in how u execute ur KB windows
once u get through all that dmg will come
dw
lean portal
these overalls looking fine to me no ?
rotund oak
also there is a thing when we fok over mut above 3 targets
clever sapphire
me no like hybrid build, hybrid build has no blindside and thats no fun
clever sapphire
also there is a thing when we fok over mut above 3 targets
4+
or was it ct 4+
and fok 3+
rotund oak
and fok 3+
Fan of Knives if you are in 3+ target aoe, until you have 4+ combo points
clever sapphire
But pb
ye i also like pb, especially when abilities hide under it and i die to them
rotund oak
yup CT is 4+
clever sapphire
i will stick to my blindside thank you very much
grim jay
ye i also like pb, especially when abilities hide under it and i die to them
Idk never happened to me. I only have that with DnD and the talent where it gets bigger on DK
rotund oak
i think hybrid is a thing for more ST focused situations
balmy condor
hybrid is literally in the middle of everything
clever sapphire
tbh i enjoy pb procs too, thats why cleave build is just da best feeling because i get blindside and pb
(i dont really play cleave because i enjoy spreading bleeds)
grim jay
Overall hybrid and shock look very similar in performance, while I personally think hybrid might end up being better in high keys
grim jay
Iirc hybrid has higher target scaling and has obviously less of an execute focused playstyle, while execute might be less valuable due to the ramping nature of the meta specs
grim jay
And with more focus on KB that mobs can actually live through on higher keys, it gets some decent value there aswell
rotund oak
when ap is actually strongest as an execute talent
grim jay
Hybrid should even have better PI scaling if thats something to consider in the comp
I personally do like the shock build more so far tho
rotund oak
same
dark token
Shock until 15, hybrid after for fort, cleave CT for tyran 
hearty coral
does this take too much time?
jaunty sky
does this take too much time?
wait u got through the assault scenario?
hearty coral
ye, i did the assault, why?
jaunty sky
cause it always soft locks for me
and i can't skip it cause i didnt play on this account in legion
jaunty sky
yeah
i can start the scenario but it soft locks at stage 7 when i'm supposed to find the alliance guy
hearty coral
do u get stuck in the stage 7, right?
jaunty sky
do u get stuck in the stage 7, right?
YES 
hearty coral
it happened to me also, i went crazy
i resolved it by doing nothing.
Just follow the npcs and let them do everything
clever sapphire
thats legit how i also did it im pretty sure
kill everything too fast? it bugs
kill it slow and move with npcs
hearty coral
Also in stage 6 before it get to 100% there should be monsters
I mean, u have to reach 100 with monsters on the field
So while they are killing things u should be open cages so the % bar get to 100% before they kill everything
Cause there are a cinematic where they start teleporting out
jaunty sky
I'll try it again later then
just wanted to work on getting some artifact appearances
glass hemlock
Fresh assa rogue just started gearing up today! Doing well AoE but ST seems low
For ST I basically just make sure I have bleeds up then generate combo points and use envenom right? Mix with shiv
And obviously kingsbane, death mark etc
clever sapphire
yap
your main dmg is gonna come down on how well you execute your cooldown windows
primal jolt
hello doomers
spice surge
For ST I basically just make sure I have bleeds up then generate combo points an...
The way you said "mix with shiv" seems to imply youre not executing your cooldown windows properly
Since you should always be shiving with kingsbane, and nowhere else
glass hemlock
Roger that thank you, just read through the wowhead guide as well so that makes much more sense now
I main resto Druid so this is fun!!
fallen arch
fk this shit
What?
primal jolt
disappointed in blizzard
fallen arch
I mean, we’re probably all disappointed at some point by them
But what’s the problem currently
clever sapphire
deathstalker im gonna assume
fallen arch
That the hero talents are bad before beta even started
hearty coral
im glad i leveled up a warrior for myself
U left your rogue?
The opossite of me. I boosted a warrior and now im leveling a rogue. Having fun with it.
clever sapphire
oh god you did it the wrong way around
you boost the wrong and lvl warrior
you dont wanna lvl a rogue 
hearty coral
I wont lie. Its Hard leveling a rogue. I feel squishy and weak.
clever sapphire
ye im pretty sure rogue lvling is the worst from all classes/specs
primal jolt
yippie
spice surge
Huh
primal jolt
df is discord doing
clever sapphire
rogue is pretty much the meme "it gets better after 100 hours", for rogue its "it gets better after max lvl"
spice surge
Idk assa is fine leveling, but ye sub and outlaw is unplayable at early levels
hearty coral
I wish assa had adrenaline rush
clever sapphire
wait really? i thought sub is the best because it can just shadowstrike evisc all the time
spice surge
wait really? i thought sub is the best because it can just shadowstrike evisc al...
Well ye but then it takes 10 seconds until you have the energy to do it again
clever sapphire
so sub has pooling during lvling 
spice surge
Since the energy refund on finisher is like a lvl 30 talent
hearty coral
Assa rogue works similar to aff warlock? Dot dmg class?
spice surge
Instead of a lvl 11 one like it should be
hearty coral
What means a guide saying we dont dps wituout pi? Is that true?
primal jolt
Graveyard is already full of us
sorry i was busy rerolling
clever sapphire
so you get a lot out of getting external simped
primal jolt
What means a guide saying we dont dps wituout pi? Is that true?
the class is balanced around having PI and aug
that's why its shit
normal mist
sorry i was busy rerolling
primal jolt
same how legendary wielders are balanced around their weapon
normal mist
Sad truths
primal jolt
https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-pathetic-principal-skinner-gif-1348607740818...
ok hear me out im playing warrior, its basically the same except less stealthy and more grr angy
clever sapphire
if you said this in outlaw channel i would agree
primal jolt
also I get to be big with Colossus
im gonna get all the bitches now as warrior 😎
man i didn't doom on the class for like a week and there's already people unaware of the sin incident
cant even catch a break
spice surge
I mean sure, doom for the hero talents, but aint no way youre dooming about sins current state
primal jolt
no
this is a hero talents exclusive
i would've been dooming on the class if the buff didn't happen
actually no let me doom on the class and the fact that my cd can get parried
normal mist
The class currently feels amazing
primal jolt
yeh
normal mist
Until kb gets parried
grand comet
wait, kb can be parried 
spice surge
Yes
clever sapphire
actually no let me doom on the class and the fact that my cd can get parried
did you try to git gud
primal jolt
no i have a new plan
find someone's mom that works in blizzard
and get whyspr a job
in that indie company
when kb gets parried you have two choices to kms or to kill a blizzard employee
pick a pill
grand comet
i didnt even knew parry was still a thing in pve, but also ive been a tank main for 3 years until ive picked up rogue in s4, so never happened to me
primal jolt
sorry to hear
you can just stand behind the boss
but some bosses dont let you do that
so you can just pray
grand comet
ill keep that in mind going forward
grand comet
it doesnt happen
is there a channel for log review? i've tried to use wowanalyzer but says its not updated
potent raven
yo
potent raven
is there a channel for log review? i've tried to use wowanalyzer but says its no...
wdym?
grand comet
potent raven
log review in a sense to help review any improvements i can make
!log @grand comet
prisma monolithBOT
Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage
Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/
clever sapphire
thats sub channel
potent raven
doesnt seem to work n this channel apparently
clever sapphire
here you just post a log, someone looks at it
clever sapphire
if whispyr is online and is in a good mood he might even open a thread for your log
potent raven
LOL
grand comet
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NatJKmpfYyjGw8qH (1 big mistake i know for sure was on nymue i fucked up 2nd set of cds)
clever sapphire
aaaand you are?
grand comet
Gxe, sorry forgot to mention 
dark token
Am I overcooking or fragment > ashes on like a 4 min fight length
Deathmark + KB + fragment, KB, KB, deathmark + KB + fragment
frosty bridge
sounds about right
clever sapphire
Gxe, sorry forgot to mention <:OMEGALUL:816142532467359745>
i dont really see issues (not the best log reviewer), its just ilvl and the fact that the priests are cooked for not giving you PI
also its heroic so timers gonna be all messed up
because on nymue you cant send a kb on the adds
so now you are left with a dead kb cast until 2nd dm
grand comet
3 of them were ping the mage 
yeah thats where i fucked up i used kb couple seconds before dm came off cd
clever sapphire
i mean thats good, mage logs are invalid now
grand comet
should have held a bit
clever sapphire
its always good to invalidate a fotm players logs
grand comet
also didnt have the chance to get a mythic log since im tanking for main raids in guild so im only left with hc on rogue
clever sapphire
looking at the dps of the others, they should tank and you should dps
clever sapphire
ah
but ye looks fine,
atleast im not seeing any glaring issues
and the kb delay issue you realized yourself
grand comet
one thing i noticed, i think its the 2nd kb, but sometimes i feel oom on that
and i dont get to buff it alot, do you want to pool energy for it beforehand?
clever sapphire
!pooling
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
clever sapphire
general pooling rule
i usually pool a bit before kb just for the general feel
not sure if its the correct move
pearl dagger
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
grand comet
ill take that pooling and hit dummies for a bit
clever sapphire
its easy to get a feeling for it
grand comet
thanks for the help, time to work on this now
jaunty stone
how much energy should i have before activating CDs?
latent copper
why everyone is running grieftorch and ashes when Neltharion, Pips and Incarnate simming way higher?
spice surge
why everyone is running grieftorch and ashes when Neltharion, Pips and Incarnate...
They arent simming way higher
latent copper
hmm when im using droptimizer theyre simming higher. But im actually only 517
jaunty stone
they have rng in them
grand comet
in dslice i assume u are referring to
jaunty stone
if they proc then its giga but if not then 
latent copper
yes i used Dslice to see which gear i should upgrade next. To do this with every Patchwerk sim it tool to long time
grand comet
in st ashes and torch are still highest https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rBgefBfRwpM8N83UtZhpuQ did this this morning
frosty bridge
is there a way to disable action bar paging without bartender/addons
or simply disable the stealth bar
gusty mirage
or simply disable the stealth bar
best way to do it without downloading an addon is to use a dif action bar as your primary
frosty bridge
best way to do it without downloading an addon is to use a dif action bar as you...
ahh
gusty mirage
so like you enable action 4 or 5 for example, move all your stuff to do that, and rebind it appropriately
frosty bridge
its only bar 1 that turns into stealth
gusty mirage
ye
gusty mirage
my fellow anti-paging homie
nimble zinc
Am I overcooking or fragment > ashes on like a 4 min fight length
i thought fragment was no bueno because it was 3min cd instead of 2min?
spice surge
Well ye
But if the fight is 4 minute long, youre gonna get as many fragment uses as ashes uses
nimble zinc
But if the fight is 4 minute long, youre gonna get as many fragment uses as ashe...
in a 4 min fight, i should get ashes twice, no?
spice surge
what
nimble zinc
well I guess if its EXACTLY 4 min, then you'd still have like 10-15 sec cd left on ashes?
spice surge
Yes
nimble zinc
does fragment give more agi than ashes?
dark token
in st ashes and torch are still highest https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r...
Actually signet sims better in ST 5 mins
spice surge
Ye but thats just cope, somebody is gonna die
spice surge
And grief is gonna be better
nimble zinc
Actually signet sims better in ST 5 mins
depends on how many ppl die in that 5 mins tho?
dark token
We have our healer suicide at the end
pliant dust
Any1 got a good plater for M+?
spice surge
Pretty much regardless of how long the fight is
dark token
We have holy priest with the auto rez
spice surge
depends on how many ppl die in that 5 mins tho?
Sims assume 0 resets
dark token
For grieftorch reset on pull
I would only run signet on raz/fyrakk
And even on these fight grief is probably better when you count resets
spice surge
Ye i bought signet to use on fyrakk last week but it didnt do anywhere near the damage of grieftorch since theres always incidents happening
gusty mirage
Every fight
as god intended
get your shaman to sudoku as well
ankh is a cooldown, and they need to put their cooldown on cooldown
it's for the greater good
spice surge
as god intended
The absolute pain of boosting and your boostee dying before you get to torch
spice surge
Once a week
gusty mirage
if I come to EU can I play with you eleem
I have an EU account, I just need to give them doll hairs
spice surge
Think you'd need to learn swedish to understand the banter in the guild, but sure bud 
gusty mirage
its okay I don't talk in raid anyway
if I'm talking during raid I'm gromnak malding
grand comet
Actually signet sims better in ST 5 mins
yeah, that is true but isnt signet stacking rng?
frosty bridge
gusty mirage
yeah, that is true but isnt signet stacking rng?
ye it's really sink or swim
real sinew
ankh is a dps cd now
gusty mirage
@spice surge would know
but I think its first set of feathers
you do a rushed opener
fly up
do your business
molten galleon
So I want to be rather first than 2nd
spice surge
Ye because being second means you cant use your second kb
dark token
You do a rushed opener so your kingsbane finishes before tindral flies away in p1
And to pad more on group 2 root set in p1
molten galleon
I still get CP before DM or send it after SnD ?
dark token
I send after snd
lucid birch
clever sapphire
i do one builder after snd so after doing my dm-shiv-dance-kb i have atleast 4 cp
and kb just done by the time i need to do my feather
boreal cloud
You mean builder?
boreal cloud
Yes but why should it be 5+?
Because that way it covers your DM/SHIV/KB
If you already used those then it doesnt matter wether its 4 or 5 CP
torpid sparrow
do you guys still play with silence on garrote or i m stupid to still play it?
grand comet
i dont take it in all dungeons
flint marsh
!dagger
prisma monolithBOT
grand comet
ive seen some iterations of builds for m+ like left + middle, left + right, middle + right, is there any huge difference in them? or are they just comp related?
royal lantern
what
indigo epoch
1st one is the one I run most in m+
Last build is cleave, good for smaller mob counts (less aoe)
clever sapphire
1st recommended for all keys under 15, cleave is not recommended under 15 because its all about sending cd on one mob
indigo epoch
Middle one is the one most sites say is optimal, but it hasn't been for me
clever sapphire
and mobs dont live anything
middle is the inbetween
still not recommended for low keys
placid wave
I run the 2nd most in m+, but you need mobs to live long enough to leverage kings bane on them
grand comet
so i was trolling this entire time running the middle build
placid wave
i mean its fine, what i normally play
keen spruce
Middle one is the one most sites say is optimal, but it hasn't been for me
What sites 
proven jasper
Id say not running iron wire is more troll
indigo epoch
Wowhead icy etc.
proven jasper
than whatever build ur using
placid wave
you give up some overall but can do some better prio dam
grand comet
i mean its fine, what i normally play
i mostly pug 8's and low keys farming crests to upgrade gear so they dont even last 5 sec into kb 
keen spruce
If you’re at the level of looking up guides. Just play ap shock
placid wave
then yeah DTB is not good
royal lantern
m+ andys swapping bettwen "aoe overall dmg is the only thing that matters!!!!!" and "prio dmg is the only thing that matters!!!!" more often then i swap my underwear
proven jasper
keen spruce
I miss cranky fox tryan
placid wave
to be fair, having both is the only thing that matters
grand comet
i am taking iron wire between dungeons
placid wave
whats up shadowpriests
grand comet
i usually remove for iron wire
royal lantern
I miss cranky fox tryan
huh
proven jasper
clever sapphire
And ffs take iron wire
if i never get a restealth then iw is of no value, trust im an engineer
royal lantern
what is dragon tryan doing different then cranky fox tryan
keen spruce
if i never get a restealth then iw is of no value, trust im an engineer
Don’t say the r-word
royal lantern
indigo epoch
@keen spruce 99% of rogues use whatever build the guides tell em to, dont get cranky at me sir 😉
clever sapphire
Don’t say the r-word
ranged, ret or restealth?
keen spruce
ranged, ret or restealth? <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>
Yes 
grand comet
so overall, i should be running the 1st build?
(im doing dungeons to farm crests, not pushing yet)
keen spruce
Arterial shock or ap shock w/r it’s called on wowhead
Will be fine/best/whatever in like 99% of keys for 99% if players in 99% of comps
grand comet
cool ty for the info guys
boreal cloud
you can actually use vanish and shadow dance to restealth
but dont tell anyone, thats a secret!
keen spruce
Tru and real
grand comet
we just need to find a better tank prob solved
keen spruce
Proper tanking will do more for your dps than almost anything
keen spruce
spice spire
boreal cloud
<:glorp:1222771134437658725>
Cool emote
spice spire
boreal cloud
No glorp?
fluid drift
in aoe if you cant go stealth between groups, do you use vanish for spreading garrote/rupture:
- before deathmark, kingsbane burst only
- before any kingsbane burst
- as in optimal rotation last 3 seconds of aoe kingsbane with deathmark
- for spreading garrote/rupture ignoring when burst gets ready
?
pseudo hamlet
No need to use vanish, you get carnage during the SD
And you will be pairing DM -> SD+KB
keen spruce
in aoe if you cant go stealth between groups, do you use vanish for spreading ga...
Generally your vanishes and dances are reserved for the normal burst windows. You can manually spread bleeds during the gather if you can’t stealth. There are flexible scenarios where you could use dance or vanish to spread bleeds but it’s pretty rare when that will be better than just playing normally
fluid drift
5. when there are mobs you need to silence
would never play cc instead of dmg, what a crazy idea
placid wave
i basically never do #3 in keys and prefer to have a flexible aoe silence then some crit on a burst
proven jasper
yeah i almost always save vanish in keys for on demand aoe garrotes
If it naturally comes up on a boss ill use it with kb
keen spruce
Yeah also depends on key level. If mobs aren’t living your kingsbane anyways (which they almost never will) then you can shift your vanish to a more flexible spot
proven jasper
Yee
keen spruce
Just make sure you reserve it like 1-2 packs before a boss
So you have proper single target
boreal cloud
even dmg wise saving vanish for imp garrote probably beats the 30% crit
fluid drift
even dmg wise saving vanish for imp garrote probably beats the 30% crit
i guess you would use last 3 seconds to only use garrote then
if envenom is active ofc
keen spruce
But you can also throw out a couple of garrotes in your dance instead of mutilates earlier in the lv
Kb
Especially on caster packs it can be goodge
fluid drift
shiv does not empower kingsbane, so i want to have as much uptime before kingsbane is done, as it doesnt change its dmg right?
while i want to end tea after kingsbane ends
boreal cloud
spice spire
boreal cloud
keen spruce
keen spruce
shiv does not empower kingsbane, so i want to have as much uptime before kingsba...
Huh?
Shiv should cover all of kingsbane with 2 charges
And tea should cover the last part of kb
fluid drift
Shiv should cover all of kingsbane with 2 charges
nvm, it does
i guess i failed some timings from time to time
proven jasper
… thats like ur whole burst
fluid drift
Shiv should cover all of kingsbane with 2 charges
but its really close for me, like <0,5 sec
with 19% haste
fluid drift
i mean if i use second shiv perfects, its <0,5 sec longer than kb
limber lion
Should be 1s or 0s
keen spruce
X2 is 16s
limber lion
Nothing in between
fluid drift
0,1 sec this time
keen spruce
So 1s buffer
fluid drift
i use shiv before dm, should do more dmg if i use before
fluid drift
but best logs st seem to shiv before
even if its like 0,01%, i would want to learn that way
limber lion
Link one log
boreal cloud
show logs
spice surge
If you shiv before dm then your kb will 100% be outside shiv
limber lion
You want the biggest portion of KB to be inside Shiv
And that's the last 8s
Not the first 8s
fluid drift
limber lion
That's just wrong
boreal cloud
Heroic
fluid drift
If you shiv before dm then your kb will 100% be outside shiv
wasnt for me. like <0,5 sec longer, but extremely close
keen spruce
Bro it’s not a debate
limber lion
It's not something you can change
keen spruce
It’s the duration of the abilities
boreal cloud
4 grieftorch casts
limber lion
Rogue gcd is 1s
You cannot change that
It's not about being close or not
It's impossible
Even with 999999999999999999999999999% haste
Nothing changes the gcd
It's permanently 1s
If you use Shiv before DM, that means that your Shiv WILL drop for 1 second during KB
And there's nothing you can do about it
Be it during the middle part of KB or the last tick
keen spruce
fluid drift
limber lion
<:MonkeyBlobRee:710079977424420914>
Link me a st sim pls :3
fluid drift
not simming dummies, dont know how
limber lion
There you go, you missed out on the middle tick
Because you used Shiv too early
Even if it's 0.1s
It's still outside of Shiv
And there's NOTHING you can do about it
Except change the rotation
No amount of haste or trinkets or buffs or PI will change that
You either miss out on the tick between the 2 Shiv's
Or the tick at the end
fluid drift
i dont get it. if shiv is longer active than kb, shouldnt last tick be in shiv?
limber lion
And you don't want to miss out on either
keen spruce
not simming dummies, dont know how
Look in lasts 14 seconds. 2 shivs last 16 seconds. If you shiv before death mark and kingsbane then you have <=14s left of shiv remaining
limber lion
Fuck bad picture
keen spruce
Shiv does have more duration IF YOU SHIV AFTER DEATHMARK
limber lion
The thing is
Double Shiv is 16s
You KB 2s after if you use Shiv early
Which means both are 14s
fluid drift
ye i get that. i just saw that it is still in my shiv. And even tho what you argue makes sense and im a theoritical person too, it does look different for me
limber lion
But in the game it doesn't register if both end at the same tick
keen spruce
The question though
keen spruce
Is why would you shiv before deathmark
limber lion
If they both end on the same tick
proven jasper
There is no reason to shiv before dm you are just making it harder on yourself to get all of kb in shiv
limber lion
There's networking issues with KB + Shiv dropping on the same tick
keen spruce
But you’re gaining nothing by shiving before deathmark
proven jasper
you are asking for a 0.01 gain and risking the last tick of kb not benefitting from shiv
keen spruce
You’re risking the entire value of shiv for 0 gain
proven jasper
which is a MUCH bigger loss
keen spruce
There no upside
proven jasper
Then yes 0 gain
limber lion
I see where you're coming from
16s of Shiv, 14s of KB
Use 2s before KB
Should be 14 and 14
But unfortunately that does not work with KB
Because the tick happens at the very end, or simply put after the duration of the KB has already ended
It's not a 0.0001% gain, rather it's an average loss of like 0.4% or whatever if you miss out on the last tick.
You might get lucky and the networking allows you to do that and you get that 0.00001% gain
But on average you're doomed
slate crown
What's the contention happening right now? I thought the GCD by GCD structure of our CD windows were pretty well solidified
limber lion
There is 0 reason to do that atm.
limber lion
What's the contention happening right now? I thought the GCD by GCD structure of...
It sure is
slate crown
Envenom -> DM -> Shiv -> SD+KB -> Rest of it
That's Shivving 1 gcd, 1 sec, before KB
which more than covers the KB duration
keen spruce
Also the log you linked @fluid drift the guy dropped shiv in the middle of his kb, which is better than missing the last tick. But still worse than just shoving after deathmark
Shiving*
slate crown
It's just burned in my brain, shiv is the gcd before SD+KB, then it is the second GCD after dance ends. Even that technically wastes 1 second of shiv uptime, but who cares, it fully covers the KB and a second after it too
keen spruce
limber lion
Take it from someone who's the biggest minmax nerd in this discord
There is no reason to Shiv before DM.
limber lion
Healer affix
keen spruce
So true bestie
devout mist
!dagger
prisma monolithBOT
keen spruce
Pick critter u won’t
slate crown
Pick critter u won’t
which critter? 🦆 🦆
keen spruce
spice spire
@keen spruce
shy pecan
shy pecan
Sounds like a skill issue since I can do it
proven jasper
shy pecan
spice spire
Fixed
shy pecan
keen spruce
shy pecan
Duck stinky
keen spruce
manic quartz
There is no reason to Shiv before DM.
i actually had to look one of my logs how i do it because you made me 2nd guess myself but i shiv after DM. phew
earnest remnant
<:BearStinky:1182036402687463455>
take a bath
earnest remnant
frogs are slimy dont go near me
keen spruce
earnest remnant
weird lookin frog
keen spruce
shy pecan
shmeeps planning his trip to EU to find stealthi soon
earnest remnant
he wont find me
keen spruce
Why am I being punished for quake’s illiteracy
limber lion
i actually had to look one of my logs how i do it because you made me 2nd guess ...
Good
manic quartz
When doing advanced sim for weapon runes you just paste the text after your simc input right? seems i finally have to change runes, it says i need to start to use haster instead of mastery runes
shy pecan
Yeah
shy pecan
now seli's gonna yell at you
He always does
What if... I changed my pfp too so he wouldn't notice? 
spice spire
He doesn’t view pfps
shy pecan
Clearly his loss
arctic venture
Hey guys I´m using Storm and Pips trinket for m+, but Ive seen the optimal would be ashes and grieftorch. My Simc tells its a loss of dps. Should I move for it anyway?
junior aurora
should be using ashes for sure
tall atlas
where is the Dreamcarver graphic
proven jasper
!dagger
prisma monolithBOT
tall atlas
ty bby
arctic venture
should be using ashes for sure
ashes and?
proven jasper
Np
Ashes and pips is prob ur best bet
Since u already have a pips and its a decent passive trink
arctic venture
make sense.
proven jasper
Ashes is very much preferred by us as an on use with our cd’s
arctic venture
nimble zinc
ashes and?
I run ashes and Grieftorch. Sims don’t account for any resets on Grieftorch and ppl are pretty much guaranteed to die in M+ and raid scenarios.
proven jasper
Yeah i mean ur second trink can basically be whatever u like
nimble zinc
Signet also goes hard on longer fights. Like >5 mins
nimble zinc
Tbh i like oce alot but i got a group running it as well
Yeah makes a difference if you have other teammates with it or not
proven jasper
Yeah its like an extra 600 stats with a full group
nimble zinc
I like OCE better than Icon or PiPs because it’s A) constant buff and B) you choose which stat you want.
proven jasper
Yeah def
nimble zinc
Pips is kinda RNG right? I never used it.
proven jasper
Easy to swap for the group on assa as well, all stats are pretty good for us
nimble zinc
Would suck to get a big buff outside your KB window
proven jasper
I think you constantly have the buffs it just swaps between what randomly
so its still a great trink
nimble zinc
Okay not so bad then
real pike
do you guys use IB or caustic spatter for larodar prog? logs are mainly caustic but idk if that's padding
proven jasper
Caustic is def good there
nimble zinc
Mostly caustic iirc
proven jasper
Pretty frequently have add spawns
nimble zinc
I only use internal bleeding on pure ST fights like Snek.
Any time there’s adds you’ll want caustic splatter.
real pike
nice and easy, ty
quaint flare
