Remember when I would cancelaura pi
#assassination
subtle tundra
junior aurora
remove the button please god
gusty mirage
remove the button please god
"WE HEAR YOUR CONCERNS AND MAKE AN ENTIRE HERO TREE BASED ON PI, HOPE YOU LIKE THE CHANGES GUYS!"
spice surge
Also the reason the buff, that were ~7% was more like a 12-13% buff since more people now get PI 
gusty mirage
well that and the double dipping of the tier set
junior aurora
id much rather see PI get made into selfcast only then to see aug yeeted at this point
gusty mirage
gusty mirage
thing is it all adds up right
the 2pc fix, the 4pc double dip, the 5% aura
suddenly assassination fucks
toss PI on top of it
gusty mirage
id much rather see PI get made into selfcast only then to see aug yeeted at this...
they could just make it caster only like focus magic used to be
then balance casters around PI
and leave my fucking melee spec alone
gusty mirage
from this wizard garbage
junior aurora
my mage is raiding with the pocket pi might have to swap the classes
gusty mirage
that way when they lie about not balancing around externals
and nerf all the PI recipients
my spec doesn't suck horsecock 1 month into a tier
gray hazel
Where did you get that PI ranking sheet from?
gusty mirage
gray hazel
TY! For some reason i thought blood mallet was a bad resource.
hybrid monolith
Hey i've got a question, is assassin with the buffs now better on ST then sublety?
gusty mirage
bloodmallet is like any other data site, depending on what you're using it for will determine if its good/bad
dark token
With pi yes
Without pi... Probably not
Sub can also win on very short fights because they can CD again at 1 min
Or 1 min/2 min
Etc
hybrid monolith
Then what type of fights are for assassin?
gusty mirage
like the people who look at the trinket charts and go "oh these 2 sim the highest they're my bis" they're giving themselves bad info
dark token
Then what type of fights are for assassin?
St with cleave assa will fuck
E.g. kurog, eranog, igira
Etc
hybrid monolith
Allright! thanks 🙂 Little cleave = assassin big cleave = outlaw i guess
dark token
And with pi I think ur a top 3 spec on every fight
Definitely best rogue spec
I'm convincing my priest to pocket me
royal lantern
i hope that this goes down by a bigger chunk with the TWW kb changes
gusty mirage
i hope that this goes down by a bigger chunk with the TWW kb changes
I hope this entire chart gets deleted along with PI and augvoker
dark token
i hope that this goes down by a bigger chunk with the TWW kb changes
I prefer either being bis PI or like sub where it's complete troll to have PI
clever sapphire
i prefer it being troll to get Pi
dark token
Anywhere in the middle feels fuckin bad when random sin logs get pi when it's not bis and gap you
E.g. shadowlands
royal lantern
and lmao this paladin is still a fotm brain
no poison cleanse totem by the shaman btw
clever sapphire
make pi so bad for assa like windfury totem is for ret palas
gusty mirage
clever sapphire
ssssh
royal lantern
idea for a Powerinfusion rework: you infuse the Priest with power, he takes 20% haste away from you and takes it for themself
clever sapphire
did you not read my name
gusty mirage
that's turning assa into outlaw
clever sapphire
did you expect something smart
gusty mirage
pure moth
that's turning assa into outlaw
Cringe
agile osprey
Or we just remove all externals/raid buffs. And delete Aug
royal lantern
wait
what will happen with the APM outlaw brains when they taste the new a.rush with BL running + Pi
and have a 0,2sec GCD
they will just nut on the spot?
clever sapphire
Or we just remove all externals/raid buffs. And delete Aug
wanna bet we get another external spec before this happens? like another aug, not another spec thats external dependant
agile osprey
We def will. They will expand on the support role
slate crown
and have a 0,2sec GCD
I thought it was capped at .8 gcd unless I misunderstood?
Like the change makes it scale with haste, up to what it is today
ember mural
Blizz gonna make another heart of azeroth but all the essences are externals/support spells
Everyone gets to be an aug
tacit charm
they will just nut on the spot?
yes
clever sapphire
but why would i want to be an aug
spice surge
Blizz gonna make another heart of azeroth but all the essences are externals/sup...
Thats mop remix
tacit charm
I thought it was capped at .8 gcd unless I misunderstood?
yea this is true, its why BL and pi is so bad for us
not bad but, pretty worthless
spice surge
wait
what will happen with the APM outlaw brains when they taste the new a.rush...
Tww ADR is capped at 25% haste
Then they get their 0.8s gcd just like now
royal lantern
Tww ADR is capped at 25% haste
smh my head
slate crown
on a sidenote trying to find the patch note link again by going to wowhead newssucks omg all these checks
slate crown
There's no disable all
and clicking on an option closes the dropdown
so I have to open it again
this ux omg
clever sapphire
Tww ADR is capped at 25% haste
that means outlaw actually gonna have to have a command for their stats where it says "25% haste is the hard cap"?
i can already see the questions of "i only have 20% haste, is outlaw still a playable spec or should i go sub?"
tacit charm
wait
so outlaw has a statgoal now?
I think so ye
royal lantern
"is 5% haste enough if i can get Pi?"
tacit charm
💀
keen spruce
stinky pirates
buoyant moat
any other builds people run for M+ besides the CT ID SD build?
normal mist
Besides those listed on Wowhead not really
stiff current
Random question. I'm playing around with fuu's cleave build that doesn't take TTB. Do you just shiv normally ahead of KB or do you hold it for the last 8s of KB?
buoyant moat
ahhh ok didnt know if there was any place for poison bomb splatter dragon-tempered or not
normal mist
Those are .. pretty much mandatory for m+
buoyant moat
reallY
stiff current
BMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEJJJhEEAAAAAASJJSLJAAAAAAgWSCSgkkSaJRERkEJRSTJSAA can be situationally useful in really niche cases
buoyant moat
i must be looking at an older build then
clever sapphire
Those are .. pretty much mandatory for m+
thats a lie, the shock build doesnt have bomb/dtb
vast loom
`BMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEJJJhEEAAAAAASJJSLJAAAAAAgWSCSgkkSaJRERkEJRSTJSAA` can...
it would be cool if a bot took the code and created an image/link to the build
normal mist
I was writing "depending on the build"
You too fast man
My cleave beloved build has both
clever sapphire
i also kinda enjoy the cleave build
but im not doing high enough keys
for cleave
stiff current
it would be cool if a bot took the code and created an image/link to the build
Fuu's DTB cleave build from the spreadsheet sorry
stiff current
but yeah shit's gotta stick around for ages for that one to work well
normal mist
Fuu's DTB cleave build from the spreadsheet sorry
This has both splatter and bomb
stiff current
but takes DTB and not SD which was the original question
subtle tundra
It's one of those ds builds that sim high but it's not very practical
Fuu does that in his sheet
stiff current
yeah for sure no iron wire needs to be played around too
fast stag
Hi ! for assa I take which one do you think?
lime edge
The MA one
normal mist
Diurnas chosen
If you have some doubts around gearing check this:
#assassination message
shell quartz
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
gusty mirage
There's no disable all
I can forward this to the wowhead people if you'd like
for that option
tropic tundra
Yeah its a bit awkward for me as well, i only play retail wow on that list
At least diablo posts feel like an optional one
slate crown
I can forward this to the wowhead people if you'd like
Sure, it's a particular UX problem with checklists that has bothered me elsewhere, the same thing exists in Outlook for task categories. Like ideally you'd have enable/disable all, but also if you have a checklist where the use case typically involves swapping multiple values at once, it should remain open as you adjust the buttons. This reduces clicks and just makes it easier on the brain so it doesn't have to readjust back and forth between finding the list button again and finding where you were in the list
Honestly I don't use that list all that often, but it's a common problem I've seen in enough places that I notice it when I run into it
vestal wren
Sure, it's a particular UX problem with checklists that has bothered me elsewher...
haha, wowhead def. has some ux problems
slate crown
I'm sure there's some fancy UX concept name for it but I'm not a UX designer
robust axle
Just swapped to Assasination, do I need a seperate keybind for blindside procs?
vestal wren
not needed
robust axle
It just replaces the next mutilate then I assume?
slate crown
Mutilate effectively becomes Ambush when the proc is active, you cannot cast Mutilate when you have the proc
robust axle
check
gusty mirage
I'm sure there's some fancy UX concept name for it but I'm not a UX designer
it's okay, neither is the person who designed the interface for wowhead
arctic hare
My power, its too much!
digital venture
Guys, the reason we want to craft the ring over any other piece (I know going wrist - belt - or boots is fine as well) is because rings have no mainstat or any other reason?
gusty mirage
that + free socket
limber lion
It sims the highest
short forge
guys - when do we start pooling again?
digital venture
that + free socket
well you can get the socket in any other ring tho with vault currency
digital venture
It sims the highest
yeah, but I was trying to understand why! :p
gusty mirage
correct, hence the free socket part of my statement
if you have to buy it with currency, it's not free
slate crown
Sure, it's a particular UX problem with checklists that has bothered me elsewher...
Just to finalize the point, here's an example of how multi-select filters work well in this way, easy to adjust and it stays active as you click. there's no disable all here but it's not needed as there are only 6 options. A list with more options could use a disable/enable all though, would be contextually dependent. ok I'm done now with UX website comments.
digital venture
if you have to buy it with currency, it's not free
naturally, I just thought you'd still need to buy it with the craft, like I was not aware the ring came with the socket already, pretty neat! :p
slate crown
guys - when do we start pooling again?
!pooling
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
short forge
[Read About Pooling](<https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/...
thanks :))
arctic crest
Hey guys, I casually analized my logs and while comparing to others, I realized that the more successfull players are pressing mutilate inside KB/SD windows. Is there a particular reason for it? I checked the guide and can't find an explanation. So far I monkeybrained with the changes made by blizzard and just pressed ambush
slate crown
I remember testing this difference in S3 and the difference is very small and is probably not the reason for successful vs not.
Personally I only use my mutilate button now, even in dance, not because of optimization but because I still have the weird stance swapping problem if I try to use ambush right at the moment of subt/dance fading. It makes me never have a stilted GCD so that's why I do it
blindside procs will get auto converted anyways
I think the minor optimization was mutilating inside of dance + Deathmark specifically because of the extra poison procs added by death mark and mutilate combined, then outside of deathmark you ambush
but I cba to do that
I just push my one builder button
arctic crest
yeah that makes sense, i've also realized those shitty timings where "this ability can only be used in stealth" bricked a gcd for me.
ty, it was the only thing i couldn't exactly explain, other mistakes were more obvious to me 🙂
slate crown
yeah that makes sense, i've also realized those shitty timings where "this abili...
Yeah there are some people here, myself included, that experience this issue, but a solid 2/3 of people look at me crazy when I mention it. But I definitely experience it so, for basically 0 dps difference I swap the buttons I use to account for it
arctic crest
agreed and thank you
real pike
hey guys, when in your open are you using the torch? same as you did beacon or?
clever sapphire
Yeah there are some people here, myself included, that experience this issue, bu...
i look at you crazy because i just have mutilate on my stealth bar also and i press it when i have 1 sec left of dance or subter
slate crown
Yeah I have ambush on like T or something out of the way, my stealthbar and combat bar are identical
royal lantern
hey guys, when in your open are you using the torch? same as you did beacon or?
you use ashes first, and then torch w/e its ready and wont kill a envenom chain (i fuck that part up all the time aswell,dont worry)
tulip heron
Has anyone else noticed that they keep being brought out of stealth for no reason recently? I keep randomly leaving stealth, afk, moving, but with no damage being done to me
royal lantern
Has anyone else noticed that they keep being brought out of stealth for no reaso...
sarkareth cloak equiped?
tulip heron
sarkareth cloak equiped?
What's it called again? Away from my pc
It's the BIS one on wow head
royal lantern
voice of the silent star
tulip heron
Yeah I have that
tulip heron
Ohh lmao.. Well that's annoying
Very annoying as it brought me out of stealth in a mythic whilst cloaking party past moons
Mobs*
tulip heron
you use ashes first, and then torch w/e its ready and wont kill a envenom chain ...
Also piggybacking this, do you guys use ashes immediately on opening or wait to set up bleed etc first
tulip heron
Cheers
robust axle
Guess Im misunderstanding the trinket then
slate crown
The only thing that snapshots is Nightstalker from dance
lime edge
Oh nvm then 
clever sapphire
Guess Im misunderstanding the trinket then
you arent, but the difference between using it on dm vs on kb is like 0.2%
and macroing it on dm makes sure you always use it with dm/kb and never with only kb (which could happen in m+, atleast in my experience)
junior aurora
yeah sometimes dm comes up the pack before a boss and ill send a dry kb to hold
slate crown
Yeah I listened to soviet and just set a specific bind for it and use it with DM always, I already had a trinket bind slot available from using branch last season
grim jay
Yeah there are some people here, myself included, that experience this issue, bu...
I mean its still unclear what exactly is causing it
and many people are unaware of it in the first place
no wonder some doubt you guys having the issue
😛
its a thing since forever tho
slate crown
Yeah
grim jay
just not for sin, because it didnt have dance
slate crown
I took a video of it and shared it awhile back
But regardless, I get it if you don't have it happen on your client not knowing about it
grim jay
yeah its easy to overlook
especially if you have the error messages turned off
like me
cursive owl
Guys i need some help again
cursive owl
do you think taking eonar necklace is good ? , i am thinking about crafting a neck and use 1 good ring
just got this one, so i thought about it
but thats my crafted one
grim jay
eonar necklace?
cursive owl
pure moth
Have you simmed it yet to see what's best option?
cursive owl
hmm >w>
clever sapphire
your first 2 crafts should kinda be ring and wrist
waist and wrist no? because the 2 vault rings are "bis"
(i crafted ring because i had no rings)
grim jay
purely damage wise fuu has the crafted ring on his profile
tho it prolly doesnt make much of a difference
anyways
slate crown
Crafted rings are nice simply because they also have a guaranteed socket
though, that benefit is less important now that sockets cost 3 tokens
which I only realized just now 😮
fading mason
!Wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
gusty mirage
dont worry, only a bug since S2, they will fix it any second now :)))))
s3 launch*
wait
no you're right
we just didn't notice it until the rework
cause we never played with subterfuge
gusty mirage
easier fix: play ret paladin
royal lantern
thats like playing darksouls with summons
i prefer playing blindfolded + lvl1 challenge run, the assa experience
potent raven
will playng ret get me more grp invites
potent raven
ah unlucky then
cba playing caster
imagine standing STILL to press a button to cast something
how boring is that
grim jay
disgusting right?
cloud basin
what key is best to farm wyrm crests?
normal mist
2
royal lantern
if you mean dungeon, ruby life pools or academy
cloud basin
key level
potent raven
speedrun playing outlaw through those
cloud basin
i wanna max my grief torch so i figured it shouldnt be hard to get 60 wyrm and 60 aspect
simple tendon
helm and legs are the same as currently equipped tier, all hero. Neck is not an upgrade. Trinket would be an upgrade but Not sure if it would be worth it or not.
hexed willow
What do the sims say?
normal mist
helm and legs are the same as currently equipped tier, all hero. Neck is not an ...
ashes/grief the go to choices for trinkets, so idk about that one for assa
normal mist
seems like a socket week for you @simple tendon
simple tendon
Yeah might be
hexed willow
^
simple tendon
just couldnt get any more keys or heroic bosses down this week on this toon
royal lantern
seems like a socket week for you <@196666025213689856>
i mean, was socket week for me aswell
hexed willow
You win some you lose some
royal lantern
but that doesnt really matter anyway cus yo uget the big shit
hexed willow
Bullions in 2 weeks is going to be a fun decision
simple tendon
DK and Shammy made out like bandits this week
hexed willow
Cloak that can break stealth early and is terrible in m+ or minor sin upgrades that have minimal value
real pike
you use ashes first, and then torch w/e its ready and wont kill a envenom chain ...
sorry late reply but cheers bud appreciate it
forgot about ashes putting it on a short cd
simple tendon
socket week it is
dreamy steppe
hey, i was looking up bullion choses cant really find a good answer what to buy, i have 4 bulion and already seal of diruna. help would be appreciated.
neat plank
I used mine on raid trinkets because everything else I can just get from m+ vault
I took Ashes and Icon 🙂
dreamy steppe
is the cruel dreamcarver good or are there dungeon equivalent gear?
neat plank
the stuff on it won't help with dps so yeah any max lvl dagger is pretty much the same
still, main hand weapon isn't a bad pick especially if you're unlucky with drops / vault
but technically you can just do any +7 dungeon and get a myth dagger from the vault
can't do that for mythic raid trinkets
dark token
FUCK i forgot to talent spatter for eranog
dreamy steppe
the stuff on it won't help with dps so yeah any max lvl dagger is pretty much th...
then i think i go with double raid trinket ty for the help
dark token
neat plank
I did my hc raid first thing in the morning and got like 4 100% parses, 6 hours later they dropped to 90-99 
but for a short time I felt good about myself
bright turret
if you're under 90% percentile on a boss that 1% of the playerbase has killed, you're actually trash at the game 
royal lantern
if you're under 90% percentile on a boss that 1% of the playerbase has killed, y...
you laugh
but thats how some people really act 🙂
bright turret
Odds are those people aren't the ones killing the boss
clever sapphire
hc boon dropped 2 times, do i pick up for m+ 
clever sapphire
same
neat plank
hc boon dropped 2 times, do i pick up for m+ <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>
I decided I'm never gonna use items like that anymore. Stuff that sims great and if everything goes according to plan they perform really well but... for me that's rarely the case
I prefer quality of life & making gameplay less complicated for myself :p
bright turret
my guild is also denying me my heroic crests
waxen oyster
oh i dont need wyrms anymore
clever sapphire
same
waxen oyster
i saw a bm hunter sign himself up to not do eggs
in a pug
while only doing 150k dps on adds
then proceeded to win the torch that dropped xd
thank god i have mine
strange python
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
high dust
ashes of ember when kingsbane has 10 seconds remaining, right?
first time having this trinket cause bad luck all exp :P
high dust
Really? doesnt it any matter at all? no big diff? o.o
frosty cedar
do somebody have a guide to level up as assa?¿
dire frigate
hi guys a quick question :), so i use vanish always with kingbanes?
real pike
hi guys a quick question :), so i use vanish always with kingbanes?
yes on your deathmarked kingsbane
in the last 3 seconds
slate crown
For ST and raids yeah
clever sapphire
unless you are in m+
slate crown
In M+ you can just use it to bleed spread
real pike
in keys I sometimes save it to reapply empowered dots but idk if it's correct
clever sapphire
yap its correct
real pike
has anyone tried using an 'm+'/indiscriminate carnage build on primal council?
real pike
yeah I'm surprised cause the season 3 guide had something like that for council of dreams but it's not recommended in the s4 guide for primal council
waxen oyster
council of dreams is at best a 2 target boss
real pike
but primal has 1 extra mob and they tend to stack more I think?
waxen oyster
for most of the fight
real pike
exactly
waxen oyster
primal council is 4 stacked all the time
real pike
hence the confusion
interesting the guide is just regular caustic raid build for primal
I'll try IC on mythic
heroic melted
real pike
I do overthink absolutely everything
clever sapphire
i think council is a boss where all the builds could work
waxen oyster
this week we had the funny meme on council
of the visual of the fire puddles being straight up missing
for half the raid
clever sapphire
aye same happened on our hc fight just now
people were saying "can you ping the puddle, cant see it"
waxen oyster
aye same happened on our hc fight just now
"im proud of our QA team"- blizz employee
clever sapphire
im pretty sure there are more bugs in this season than features
waxen oyster
potent raven
i used this on hc council
i saw ppl use ct
on warcraft logs
like
no amplifying etc
this p much
clever sapphire
i mean for context on top 100 council logs
clever sapphire
its all over the place
potent raven
and #1 parsers r playing ct not that it matters
potent raven
based?
proven jasper
mega
potent raven
playing it
waxen oyster
some people are genuinely lazy
proven jasper
waxen oyster
to change talents per boss
waxen oyster
add spec fr
limber lion
someone even went iw
They just play the mythic+ build without changing anything
don't care enough to change it
waxen oyster
me in s2 sub when i was talented st still on trash and had no bp
proven jasper
peak gaming
clever sapphire
They just play the mythic+ build without changing anything
thats me with my council build
just spatter and put on IC
whatever wont minmax on that boss
cant be bothered
cursive owl
im still not convinced about diurnas ring
clever sapphire
nope
dark token
spider PAD
dark token
untold snow
spatter does not work when you're targetting the boss on sennarth
balmy condor
im still not convinced about diurnas ring
What’s wrong with it
rare jackal
your spatter never hits anything
this is true
you also have to sec tec the spide add to hit it and the boss
if you only sec tec sennarth, it will not hit the add
cursive owl
What’s wrong with it
i just dont feel that it is proccing good O-o i dunno, i hate the stats on the ring but >w> its a inner monk thing again i gues
cursive owl
i mean, this was Dathea fight i was 100% on boss and ring made 0.4%
cursive owl
i dont qwq
normal mist
aight
somber sparrow
so without the ring you would have done a little less damage, correct?
cursive owl
balmy condor
Sounds to me like you’re 0.4% better than you would be without the ring
cursive owl
O-o my monk tells me " if i change it to a better stat ring, will i still deal more dmg than those 0.4% " ? thats my inner fight tbh 😦 sorry for bringing up the topic so much times >w<
cursive owl
this sounds like royal is hating me >w>
normal mist
i'm not
but you do NOT accept the explanation of WHY it is good
so we're just wasting our time
runic hinge
It’s free damage
cursive owl
oh
clever sapphire
its good because its a normal stat ring that also does extra dmg
imagine a normal ring
any ring
that also does fire dmg
normal mist
that has been said several times now
clever sapphire
without losing out on any extra stats
normal mist
@vestal wren do you perhaps have that circle graph you did with the stats and might share again? i believe it can help
cursive owl
royal lantern
i like pretty pictures 
normal mist
you're a pretty picture
cursive owl
i am sorry royal
vestal wren
normal mist
Thanks fuu ♥
royal lantern
cant we just pin that one
clever sapphire
i like pretty pictures <:happy:585741987592798208>
so you must like lookin into the mirror 
cursive owl
normal mist
@cursive owl look at the image above. Thats how much assassination loves EVERY secundary stat
normal mist
We love them so much we actually want to balance out pretty much our secundary stats
cursive owl
im just "difficult" cause im stupid >w<
normal mist
Im too dw
royal lantern
im just "difficult" cause im stupid >w<
you actually try to understand things and improve
that the opposite of stupid
vestal wren
cant we just pin that one
i might add it to !stats
normal mist
that would be awesome
cursive owl
but if ppl explain 5 times and i still dont understand i feel stupid
normal mist
im just "difficult" cause im stupid >w<
this is Sub secundary stats love graph
royal lantern
i could use it everytime the ussual "is that item bis for you with those stats????" discussion comes up with loot
waxen oyster
this is Sub secundary stats love graph
now pull up outlaw's
normal mist
but if ppl explain 5 times and i still dont understand i feel stupid <:kekdog:90...
look at both images. Can you understand that Assassination plays well with any secundary and sub, per example, does not want haste items?
waxen oyster
I bet 75% of it is on vers
royal lantern
now pull up outlaw's
just 2 bars
vers and "item with funny green text"
normal mist
now pull up outlaw's
(i dont know where the outlaw graph is actually xD)
but its pretty much a line between versa and crit
waxen oyster
dhs like the ring too despite vers is their worst stat
but also their entire spellbook is chaos damage
royal lantern
its also just the ussual "secondarys dont really matter nearly as much as most people act they do"
waxen oyster
which counts for all schools
limber lion
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Mast = Crit = Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs like Witherbark's Branch and Wafting Devotion can often de-value the stat in question. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.
waxen oyster
its also just the ussual "secondarys dont really matter nearly as much as most p...
pov blizzard makes primary worth much more than secondaries and people still fixate on secondaries
normal mist
@cursive owl just to be sure, did you understand now? if you play assassination, worrying about Ilvl increases is way more important than secundary stats
royal lantern
i mean the problem is more that people have such a.....wrong direction with secondarys
they see stuff like "haste and crit is the best" and translate it into "haste and crit give me more numbers and mastery/vers do NOTHING AT ALL"
when the reality is just "yeha they give slightly less then the other stats
royal lantern
and the best thing is when people then come with some galaxybrain sims ala "you say secondarys dont matter, so here is a WW monk sim with ONLY haste gear and its 20% worse!!!!!!!!!!!!"
and like
yeha?
waxen oyster
get a haste heavy necklace in box
royal lantern
when do you have a gear set where you have ONLY 1 stat heavy on all gear pieces
lol
waxen oyster
ok that going in the bin
its very rare you have items that are 90% one stat
i think igira ring is one of the worst offenders
cursive owl
look at both images. Can you understand that Assassination plays well with any s...
yes
cursive owl
<@1178364586072743938> just to be sure, did you understand now? if you play assa...
yes
waxen oyster
sure
normal mist
spice surge
and the best thing is when people then come with some galaxybrain sims ala "you ...
Iirc it was 18% for 100% haste sub during s2
waxen oyster
enchanted whelp rings are nice for alts
spice surge
And yeah 18% is a big number, but its not that big of a number
royal lantern
And yeah 18% is a big number, but its not *that* big of a number
and that would mean you having that stat on EVERY piece
how often do you actually have that without going for it over a long timespan lol
cursive owl
OK
waxen oyster
i should have bullioned brood ring on my warrior
just because its a perma never take off
cursive owl
so i got no torch today, i still have 2 bars up but got a good "exchange" trinket , to push my rogue now for ILVL would i buy a good other item instead ? or still go torch
i will get torch next drop anyway, i got it promised from raidlead :3
uh i just realized my sentence is bullsht
normal mist
i will get torch next drop anyway, i got it promised from raidlead :3
next drop, in case you've cleared this week, is in 3 weeks
clever sapphire
so i got no torch today, i still have 2 bars up but got a good "exchange" trinke...
im pretty much promised to drop the next dagger that drops because im the only rogue, yet i still just straight up bought a dagger because i cant care enough
same with ashes and grieftorch
im just buying the item thats my "bis" and calling it a day
not waiting for luck
spice surge
i will get torch next drop anyway, i got it promised from raidlead :3
Well sure, but its A. 3 weeks until it can drop again and B. Its not a very common drop
limber lion
If that's the biggest upgrade for you then yeah
eager holly
Is it possible to simulate the comparison between two items that I don't currently have in my bag? I would like to simulate between these two items to see which would be worth buying with bullion for me now. Sorry if this was a stupid question, or if someone already asked that
potent raven
guys
cursive owl
potent raven
limber lion
Is it possible to simulate the comparison between two items that I don't current...
Yes
limber lion
Either with Top Gear or Droptimizer
potent raven
ez
cursive owl
i was just spamming all my buttons
xDDDD
limber lion
both have that functionality
spice surge
Is it possible to simulate the comparison between two items that I don't current...
You can either A. use the droptimizer feature on raidbots or B. Use topgear and add the items via the item search function
minor gate
when does you use trinkets in rotation when grief + ashes
eager holly
Oh nice, will try that, thank you very much
cursive owl
dathea HC i pressed as good as i can OwO , be proud on me
limber lion
when does you use trinkets in rotation when grief + ashes
Ashes with Deathmark, Torch when the 20s icd is over
limber lion
What if i just delete your messages, then it will look like im faster
that's cheating
neat plank
me too, council is too hectic for me to execute it properly
spice surge
that's cheating
Yes 
limber lion
Yes <:basegcat:1107701282577334292>
limber lion
No
cursive owl
but hey ! looked good ^-^ if your new to assa OwO , training is everything 😄
limber lion
Yeh
minor gate
Ashes with Deathmark, Torch when the 20s icd is over
so ashes first?
limber lion
Slam
limber lion
so ashes first?
Yes
potent raven
but hey ! looked good ^-^ if your new to assa OwO , training is everything 😄
so true, thank you
i played sub on kurog
but i dcd
1/2 of the fight
cursive owl
oh
neat plank
no spatter?
I got 98% on Dathea with no spatter and just stayed on boss the whole time 🙂
potent raven
ok, ez then
cursive owl
im rejoining asssa , i was stopping wow for 7-8 months
neat plank
now show Sennarth
dark token
not fair
sennarth was awful\
it phased right shortly after deathmark came back up
and died before it finished
we have shit killtime
cursive owl
we not getting nerfed
dark token
slower killtimes will beat me
neat plank
it phased right shortly after deathmark came back up
yeah I had a similar experience 😛
restive falcon
my DH has 2 dead bullions and i wanna buy a staff and 2handed axe, can i still buy it and learn it or is blizz making it have to be same armor type/same weapon type
neat plank
I think you can buy them and keep them in your bank until TWW, then it'll be auto added to your entire account's mog collection
azure basalt
I've been enjoying it just wish I got pi
azure basalt
it shows it should be a pretty sizable gain to get it but a lot of logs also dont have it currently so not really
raw dock
Hey guys, do we have to split rupture and garrot on every boss at council?
Primal Council
I just learned the single rotation for assassin
And dont have any idea about do AoE damage
past forum
my DH has 2 dead bullions and i wanna buy a staff and 2handed axe, can i still b...
There’s a vendor that sells just transmog for 1 a piece
cursive owl
And dont have any idea about do AoE damage
i do believe they get tanked as a 4 stack anyway, go for aoe talents i believe, its better to play there , so u have the privilege of multi garrote and rupturer
like , just use the m+ talents i believe
or stick to this toxic spatter thingi
grand trail
versa vs crit phial btw?
lime edge
I don't even know what to use my 2 bullions on
potent raven
i use crit lol
rotund oak
versa vs crit phial btw?
corrupting rage for raids
potent raven
i went back to sub sorry
hidden dirge
any idea if grieftorch is simmed without ally deaths?
drifting stratus
can bosses parry/dodge etc kingsbane somehow?
spice surge
can bosses parry/dodge etc kingsbane somehow?
Yes they can parry it
drifting stratus
That sucks
spice surge
any idea if grieftorch is simmed without ally deaths?
Yes sims are done without any resets
pliant gazelle
Let's say I know someone who is really bad and sometimes drop his 4p envenom buff even though he has nothing else to focus. Should ~~I ~~he pool energy before envenom ?
slate crown
Let's say I know someone who is really bad and sometimes drop his 4p envenom buf...
!pooling
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
fading mason
does mass bind work on sparks ?
balmy condor
no
fading mason
oh ok thx
woeful meteor
(and the other option is gouge lol)
gouge on them in s1 
royal lantern
gouge on them in s1 <:pogg:1217395130663698472>
wasnt that a bit weird
cus you still needed to hit the front but the front was random or something like that
woeful meteor
I just had it in the macro and if it hit I was happy
royal lantern
i really dont remember anymore tbh
woeful meteor
but ye front is random
subtle tundra
great news, i wasnt dead last in tonights raid
runic hinge
Second to last?
subtle tundra
decent logs considering im >10 ilvls behind people and no pi !
runic hinge
You’re the 🐐
subtle tundra
im barely a donkey
runic hinge
I’m not sure the metaphor
quiet oar
runic hinge
Oh that makes sense
somber sparrow
decent logs considering im >10 ilvls behind people and no pi !
as always, the more people who play our spec, the better they'll reflect. For like 12 hours my parses were in the pink above legendary but today they've gone down. Another thing is to see how you compare to people around your same ilvl, because while some of mine say 91, for my ilvl that's more of an 85. and for one of mine that said 83, was actually like a 52 for my ilvl.
these numbers pale in comparison to the top 100
subtle tundra
yea i dont understand what youre yapping about
potent raven
lmfao
hahahaha
im proud of my council parse where i just spammed all my buttons
yeah im doing good rn
lusty mountain
guys quick question for m+, caustic before ct or after
lusty mountain
ok ty!
halcyon crypt
!FUU
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
junior aurora
good tyran build prob
yeah i think losing scent of blood is a bitch for aoe
junior aurora
wtf
silk bane
junior aurora
no iron wire in rlp?
woeful meteor
no ironwire 
dark token
i ran this in a ruby
Ye seems ok
silk bane
also i prob need a bit mroe haste maybe idk
also fragment feels so bad man idk i think ashes might be better
dark token
Haste is fake
junior aurora
double wafting will prob do some heavy lifting for you
dark token
I'm up to 20% avoidance
junior aurora
fragment is terrible
dark token
My sin actually feels tanky now
junior aurora
ashes is our best trinket lol
dark token
Might try some keys
paper blaze
where should i put the 2 BSL pieces?
balmy condor
pins
rotund wagon
!dagger
prisma monolithBOT
minor gate
my raid guild's raid leader just sent me this from hc raz logs
potent raven
so
subtle tundra
my raid guild's raid leader just sent me this from hc raz logs
what am i supposed to see here
woeful meteor
sin deals dmg again 
potent raven
news to me
balmy condor
yeah but he himself is a rogue
but the way it's worded implies he's not that rogue specifically
which means his raid leader sent him some random rogue?
or another rogue in his guild?
runic hinge
Maybe he’s a third person kind of guy
junior aurora
maybe he's the guilds raid leader
balmy condor
but he said "my raid guild's raid leader"
junior aurora
maybe he sent it to himself
hexed willow
anyone struggling to stay online
balmy condor
caffeine helps
minor gate
My raid leader is a tank
I didn’t know why he sent me it at the time but apparently it was just because I did big damage
junior aurora
👍
balmy condor
nice
runic hinge
Tell him you wanna be promoted and get a gbank allowance
normal mist
junior aurora
im my guild leader and i use it to pay my own repairs only
minor gate
Tell him you wanna be promoted and get a gbank allowance
With the amount of kits I give people I need to be compensated
They aren’t cheap
normal mist
Whats a kits?
severe oyster
Are sims for dungeon slice with Boon accurate?
normal mist
Is there anything else to it or are you just proud about your good performance?
keen spruce
Are sims for dungeon slice with Boon accurate?
for the purposes of what a dungeon slice is
yes
if you're asking if dungeon slice accurately will tell how much boon will do in a real dungeon
then no
severe oyster
for the purposes of what a dungeon slice is
Trying to decide what to buy since I was pretty sure it would be boon, but call to suffering is simming almost double boon.
Though that definitely depends on pulls/group I'm sure.
keen spruce
Trying to decide what to buy since I was pretty sure it would be boon, but call ...
I doubt that dungeon slice is maximizing boon usage on big packs
but also why not just get ashes/grieftorch
severe oyster
I have both already.
minor gate
Is there anything else to it or are you just proud about your good performance?
I thought there was when I was sent them but it was just the high parse
And yes I’m also proud
normal mist
The fuck yeah brother
severe oyster
So right now it's either buy a trinket for M+ specifically or rings/voice.
keen spruce
but idk how the tier list really goes after the top spots
the differences are gonna be marginal
i'd just go with the sims, you can always grab something else later
no reason to get buyer's remorse or decision anxiety about a couple hundred dps
runic hinge
I regret buying torch
I wanted to run ashes and call
And I let sims blind me into double on use
severe oyster
For ST my biggest upgrade would be voice followed by rings
severe oyster
Still need to raid this week though, so maybe I can grab one or both of the rings and a boon from there.
keen spruce
gap
balmy condor
A stog bap
keen spruce
my favorite kind of bap
junior aurora
died on kurog bc the fire swirlies didnt show up
how is the game so broken right now lol
red wolf
This worked for me at least on council, couldn't see fire on the ground then later on an alt in lfr I could
nova kelp
the fire on primal council is invisible too
not that it's a challanging fight, but still
red wolf
but there could be more variables as to why not 100% sure that's what fixed it on that boss in particular so who knows
junior aurora
couldnt see raszageth deep breaths either rip
woven frost
It looks like folks are running raid build with caustic in M+ right now. Am I reading that right?
ivory flower
Cleave build and raid build has just 2 differents talents
Playin raid build in m+ is troll
balmy condor
It looks like folks are running raid build with caustic in M+ right now. Am I re...
They run caustic+iron wire on a raid build basically full committing to single target and relying on caustic
It’s definitely one of the ways to play m+
Wouldn’t suggest it under like a 16
proud dust
I'm having an issue where when it comes time to refresh rupture, if I'm only getting 4 combo points from 2 mutilates, I don't have enough time on envenom buff to build, rupture, build and envenom again before it falls off, is it worth mut again at 4 cp to keep from dropping envenom chain
verbal slate
IS this nick of time really worth all the stress of running hard mode for it?
verbal slate
I'm having an issue where when it comes time to refresh rupture, if I'm only get...
whats your crt and hast?
ivory flower
IS this nick of time really worth all the stress of running hard mode for it?
Like 0,5 % dps
verbal slate
gotcha kata. the drop rate is such crap for me.
i'll just tget the crit / mast one from the vender
ivory flower
Got myth dagger in vault hehe
ivory flower
Yup no bullions spent in that
verbal slate
idk i only got trinkets from the vender so far
my guild is stacked with everyone rolling for the same ones
proud dust
whats your crt and hast?
39% crit, 25% haste no pi
verbal slate
my crit is 40% flat and buffed with flask is 47%
hast is 19%
try using the crit rune for wep
proud dust
okay, I can't run crit flask cause rl says no
woven frost
Wouldn’t suggest it under like a 16
Sticking with AP then until I get there.
rain mortar
guys listen - i know no one is really playing sin in high level keys and this season is SUPER dead - but this still feels cool
nova kelp
I wonder if that's what the top 5 out of the 35 windwalkers usually feel like
side note, fuck ww is ungodly right now, you see a 1.6m flip kick and think, y'know rolling on the floor isn't so baad
rain mortar
I will say - sin feels better the higher the key level. In 15s I’m easily doing as much overall as pretty much everything outside of maybe SP. SD seems to be really strong compared to last season
Just neeed the key to be high enough so you always have targets who will love your entire KB and you absolutely BLAST
spice surge
Ye its just unfortunate that assa is rather squishy
tacit charm
does sin just wear 5pc?
tacit charm
ok!
dark token
guys listen - i know no one is really playing sin in high level keys and this se...
Kinda cba
People hard force this comp when 14s are piss easy
I did some week 1 as sub with sub 500 ilvl
Now they won't invite 
severe oyster
No rings or boon from heroic pug. Sad times.
Only roll I won was on a dagger no one else could roll on!
dark token
I actually like DF dungeons and I feel good play them as rogue atm it's just this comp is aids
Rogue is down to similar levels of representation as season 2 already
Even destro (crazy op dmg and unique util) is being forced out
That's how u know it's bad meta
spice surge
Destro damage is only insane on huge pulls
dark token
If destro can't compete how can we
It's still quite good in keys overall with spam cc during cds and big burst
- cr + healthstones always nice
I actually can't believe Aug is beating it
I thought for sure it's mage priest destro
But nope, god comp is back
rain mortar
Yeh I mean it’s “god comp” similarities - doubt we will see any tuning though because bliz doesn’t care about this season. I’m pretty confident sin can easily do 17/18s right now if played right but few people will take a rogue - it especially not a sin rogue
dark token
Yes
Well honestly
All 3 rogue specs kinda equally in shitter
Sin and sub caught up to outlaw a bit this tier in keys
Just casters forcing us out
rain mortar
Shitter perception - it not shitters in reality
spice surge
Idk assa actually does cracked damage
dark token
Ye it does now
rain mortar
Yep - assa dmg is super high
dark token
My assa dslice beating my sub sim by 15%
And I have 20% avoidance on my gear already I feel tanky as fuck
I actually feel good as rogue it's just casters are crazy op and warping meta
silk bane
Ye its just unfortunate that assa is rather squishy
dude i swear its not that bad. I have like 37% vers yeah but like it felt good today atleast in ulda
dark token
Assa still sucks in uldaman because of totem boss and brackenhide because of totem boss and azure vault because of totem boss but
Otherwise it's not bad
rain mortar
Yeah I mean I’m running about 30% vers and did a 15 brackenhide today finish at 710k overall. Dmg really is cracked right now it feels like
silk bane
Assa still sucks in uldaman because of totem boss and brackenhide because of tot...
totem in ulda felt fine for me. mostly because theres a shit ton of ads to funnel to
brackens gonna be fucked, probably need to rotate guzzlers
AV im pretty srue youre hard vibing, just dont dm on pull and KB should line up with every break after that roughly
spatter go brr
junior aurora
well theres 2 totem bosses in AV technically
dark token
AV im pretty srue youre hard vibing, just dont dm on pull and KB should line up ...
I'm talking boss 2
Not 4
junior aurora
i think we'd be pretty bad at 2nd boss
dark token
And yes 4 is kinda rough also
junior aurora
but yeah grieftorch mandatory
silk bane
I'm talking boss 2
oh, ngl man just run around and dot a few things up and let your spriest solo that phase LOL
or if u mean the little ad, same thing kinda spriest jsut kills it
dark token
Yeah we are being carried
silk bane
yep
dark token
Sin is rly bad that boss
I'm talking bleeding edge keys sin seems fine if it it can live except those 3 due to totems
spice surge
Cant you just IC spread your bleeds
dark token
You will eventually have to stop playing sin or u wipe boss cause u can't kill in time
dark token
Cant you just IC spread your bleeds
In azure vault little add spawns like 4 times per phase
The 4 adds is kinda w/e
rain mortar
Decent number of bosses we struggle with. AV second boss and last boss are good examples. Anything with little adds who can’t live a full KB are a challenge
spice surge
Oh i thought you meant the intermission thing
junior aurora
does IC reach on intermission?
dark token
It did in season 1
I haven't tested in s4
Sin is also ehhhh in rlp boss 2 for similar reason but last boss is fine 2t cleave i guess
spice surge
RLP has insane spatter value
dark token
Ye at least there is thst
Problem with av boss 2 is you dont
Add HP too small
And too far
junior aurora
best assa dungeon is probably nokhud right
every pack has a big target to cleave off of
spice surge
As does RLP
dark token
If I rate sin keys
Hoi, academy, neltharus, nokhud all good
RLP ok
Uldaman bad, brackenhide bad
Av awful
hexed willow
I actually like DF dungeons and I feel good play them as rogue atm it's just thi...
where's this data from?
junior aurora
yeah but RLP is kinda rough on the 2nd boss
spice surge
yeah but RLP is kinda rough on the 2nd boss
Idk not really, it can live a long ass time
dark token
Ur still not great at target swap even with spatter value
Sin is only good at prolonged 2t cleave
But yes RLP boss 2 better than the other totem bosses
spice surge
If you do the s1 interrupt tech it can live for like 20s or something
More like 15 but still very long
hexed willow
Top 2000 keys run every week
ty ty
junior aurora
can you vanish it
dark token
Yes
junior aurora
or is that just the ones around the ring you can vanish
dark token
You can vanish or cloak
spice surge
S1 interrupt tech?
Nvm i dont think it works anymore since they changed kick lockouts
But the idea was to have it do its cast right as it was about to do his aoe
So you delay it by a bit
dark token
Ye those are separate and can't occur same time pretty sure
slate crown
Are you all just slamming ST+spatter for vault except for council?
(and Ib for terros obv)
dark token
Are you all just slamming ST+spatter for vault except for council?
No spatter on sennarth the boss is too far from adds it won't cleave
No spatter on dathea with 0 platform strat or if not going up
No spatter for brood if on boss
Also don't deathmark raz intermission
Better to hold deathmark and CD shield 1+3
slate crown
Also don't deathmark raz intermission
Thank you because I would have 100% sent DM into her right before she flies up
thx
dark token
Even when you land on next platform and there are bunch of smalls to spatter cleave
Don't
Your deathmark won't be up for first shield
It's actually ok to deathmark only before she flies up I think, since you hold until 4 mins ish
Don't send kingsbane and use that on intermission adds
Lolae gapped me by not deathmarking intermission, I'll try it next week
slate crown
So DM+KB, KB, DM(noKB), KB on adds, DM+KB on shield
dark token
Ye
slate crown
Then should have a KB up for each shield after that I think?
dark token
Ye
slate crown
nice
dark token
It's dm + KB shield
Grief + KB shield
DM + kb shield
You are holding 3rd DM like 30-40s or so
So it's fine to hold kb for 2nd shield
dark token
So DM+KB, KB, DM(noKB), KB on adds, DM+KB on shield
This DM (no KB) is only if ur group pushing her a bit slow
If ur really slow you can do a full dm + KB I guess
If ur fast you won't even get DM off (my raid)
slate crown
Yeah