assassination

[oak tangle]

like inside dm kb?

i can see that argument

[royal lantern]

??? no, just Overall lol

[oak tangle]

how does that work

[royal lantern]

did you play the spec inside a raid

[midnight mist]

ye thats why I stopped playing sin

[oak tangle]

i did

[midnight mist]

way too fast for me

[royal lantern]

the amount of time you actually run low on energy and cant do anything is low

[oak tangle]

i haven't played it when fights have been sub 2 mins though

still had to pool when i raided

[royal lantern]

outlaw brains when a class that is balanced around a 1sec hard gcd and as a result hardcaps at around 50-mid 60apm (depeending on the amount of off gcd abilitys avaible) has 2specs around 50-mid 60 apm:

[oak tangle]

it's a effect of short fights and tea use right? what you mean? so it's not really sustainable on long stuff

or am i completely off mark

[royal lantern]

you just generate a shitton of energy Overall

combined with the absurd high stats we have rn, WFT, 2free tea charges, blindside etc....

[oak tangle]

oh yeah early patch execute was gcd

i remember that

most of my kills are between 3-4 mins

and those were reclears, so more like 5 mins when progging (Heroic)

[balmy condor]

yeah assa is

"slower"

but it's not really all that slow

[subtle tundra]

the trick is to realise i wont parse well regardless so i just watch something on my 2nd monitor disregarding performance

🙏

[balmy condor]

on fyrakk I'm still easily 50-52 apm

with a bit of downtime for rends and him jumping away

[midnight mist]

pressing health pots to pad apm

[balmy condor]

macroing dance into kingsbane to double the APM of that gcd

fresh technology

[midnight mist]

wtf, insane apm god gamer

[balmy condor]

but yeh idk

assa could be a couple apm slower tbh

[subtle tundra]

yes!

[royal lantern]

spamming detection for apm

[royal lantern]

or in case of bfa

spamming detection for corruption procs

[subtle tundra]

i sometimes unmute on discord and start meowing

[balmy condor]

even after rework and sanguine eating energy and envenom duration reduced and blindside nerfed, envenom is still like 75% uptime

idk what the goal is for that number

[subtle tundra]

fyrakk prog was a LOT of meowing

[balmy condor]

but things like twist the knife existing in a design space where envenom is 75% uptime without much effort

[gaunt moat]

okay i take that back

[balmy condor]

seems really weird to me

[royal lantern]

man, i really dread the day poopyblades is played around

such a horrible desinged talent

[balmy condor]

Better than exsang

And tbh might be a vicious venom angle if I’m being honest

[royal lantern]

thats not an achievment

its just

"do passive more dmg for not doing anything lol" is so horrible

i rather have shit like the current 4ser where its atleast SOMEWHAT involved

yes, ik that the current 4set is not really big aswell cus envenom uptime is so high, but it still beats "do nothing and do passive more dmg lol", cant tell me anyone actually would enjoy playing around that talent

[gaunt moat]

maybe that position on the class tree is just cursed?

[lean aurora]

looking into the future to s4, how do we scale with a higher statpool compared to outlaw/sub?

[royal lantern]

wdym with that

[balmy condor]

Like next expac with mastery/haste resetting

Sanguine might need to SCALE

[royal lantern]

tree could use a small touch anyway tbh

like, some of those VERY generic "passive more % dmg" talents should be replaced with utility/deffensive stuff

[balmy condor]

Who cares

Only matters in a vacuum with 0 tuning

Is season 4 going to have 0 tuning?

[royal lantern]

like the "you do more mut dmg against a target with garrote"

why is that a thing lol, put some deffensive thing there

the entire tree having 1 utility talent and 0 deffensive ones is just kinda weird

[gaunt moat]

Probably not gonna happen
But we'll see what we're getting with the hero talents

[royal lantern]

HE SAID THE S WORD

THE END IS COMMING

https://tenor.com/view/earth-globe-explode-gif-14366757

[ripe carbon]

what dps should i be doing at full 476 single target? i sim at 180k but im like 40-50k under that

[balmy condor]

Depends on the fight length and stuff

Only reasonable thing would be looking at logs

And seeing if you’re fucking up rotationally

[clever sapphire]

you simming 180k with all raidbuffs?

[ripe carbon]

well like im doing lfr to get my sims

i mean get my runs

[oak tangle]

and are you getting priest simped

[ripe carbon]

no, and i dunno about the sim.. ill have to check

[balmy condor]

I haven’t done LFR in maybe 7 years

[ripe carbon]

i am fucking up my rotation tho

[balmy condor]

How long are those fights

[ripe carbon]

but i was more wondering am i doing horrible

[royal lantern]

you wont even have windfury in lfr

thats like, 12k dps alone

[oak tangle]

your best bet, is to do a dummy parse no buffs, and do a sim with no buffs

[midnight mist]

yes

[ripe carbon]

ok ill try that...
and i dunno how long fights are

[balmy condor]

Shit, start compiling specs that are 0.4% stronger when given 35 item level

[ripe carbon]

they feel about the same as when i pugged normals. i havent done much raiding/single target stuff yet mostly just mythic+

can i vanish in dummy runs? or will it cancel

[pseudo hamlet]

We are getting new hero talents today! What are your prediction guys? What do you hope for?

[clever sapphire]

im hoping to get another off gcd cooldown with a 1:15 timer that snapshots onto kingsbane

[royal lantern]

that fatebound gets a different name

[royal lantern]

die

[clever sapphire]

[royal lantern]

i can respect hater Energy

but thats too far

[clever sapphire]

i am the hate

do we know any specific time when the talents gonna be revealed btw?

[pseudo hamlet]

Nah, just day

[balmy condor]

might not even be rogue

[royal lantern]

i doubt that tbh

[clever sapphire]

imagine another priest one

cause they fecked up the last so hard

[royal lantern]

like, why say "8classes" and NOT show some for the remaining ones that didnt had one at all yet

inc: i hate myself for typing that in 12hours

[royal lantern]

it was just a miracle

when its so fucking bad that everything is just bad

the idea? bad

the gameplay it would promote? LMAO

the rng? bruh

the balance bettwen specs? it favors disc 20x over holy (but thats just blizzard disc vs holy balancing overall tbh)

not a single redemable thing

[clever sapphire]

wdym, it sounded really fun to have your pi be a rotating ability that you have to press twice in the correct second

[royal lantern]

every 50seconds

[clever sapphire]

not like you would ever have buffed someone besides a mage with the wording that was there

[royal lantern]

while movment+mechanics are happening

[clever sapphire]

nvm warri too

[royal lantern]

and you are supposed to heal at tze same time

🙂

[clever sapphire]

git gud

and then the dps gonna blame you for giving him the wrong buff or 5 seconds too late cause you missed the buff

[royal lantern]

wowhead comments said that everyone just sucks if they dont like it and need to be better

that 2/9LFR guy that never did a heroic dungeon knows the facts mate

[clever sapphire]

well maybe he is the target audience, how could you know you top 1% hardcore player (this a joke in case someone feels offended)

you shouldnt make decisions for the casual 2/9LFR players

(nvm the fact that that guy would probably forget to press pi twice and press it again 50 sec later)

[bronze pike]

I have a late night hero talent cook for y’all

Steroids: the rogue infuses the friendly target with a special poison, increasing their mastery by 25% for 12 seconds

Double dose: the rogue gets the benefits of steroids if casted on a friendly target

That’s your beginning hero talent and your capstone

Enjoy

[clever sapphire]

can we make it a 4 different stat thing that rotates every second?

and i have to press it twice

[bronze pike]

That sounds op so we gotta balance it

[clever sapphire]

it becomes a random proc on who else it goes on besides you

[bronze pike]

Make it grant 50% of the stat to the rogue instead of 100%

[clever sapphire]

can it stack?

what if another rogue gives it to me

[bronze pike]

No

It cancels out due to some weird wotlk era bug with stealth bar switches

Don’t ask how, speggty coding

[clever sapphire]

my biggest fear is that bonespike will forever be a useless talent

i cant see how they would make bonespike playable with hero talent trees

seeing as only assa has it

[bronze pike]

Ez, the hero talents turns bone spike to something else for sin

[pseudo hamlet]

Maybe they'll add Shadowlands perks for those talents

[balmy condor]

that's cooked

[tepid hornet]

weapon poisons are total 7 including talented ones?

[balmy condor]

yeah

4 lethal 3 non lethal

[tepid hornet]

instant
wound
crippling
deadly
amplifying
numbing
atrophic

missed something?

[pseudo hamlet]

...or Torghast powers! Like explosive inflamation or something! Sepsis spreading to 3 other targets and doing AoE at the end. 😄

[tepid hornet]

now i need to blacklist duplicated from garrote rupture and lethals during deathmark, someone has their ids?

[clever sapphire]

er points counting as a 20 point ability

[pseudo hamlet]

Prepare for big Envenoms then

[royal lantern]

you make a list of my depression Symptoms?

[tepid hornet]

the tier 4pc, procs when u envenom with the lil buff u get after envenom up?

that says increased poison aplication chance?

[slate crown]

Yes.

[tepid hornet]

everytime i cast envenom with this up, 4pc is proccing?

ok

[slate crown]

Correct

[tepid hornet]

im gonna always keep shiv for kingbane windows?

i dont press shiv outside of it?

[clever sapphire]

yap

you want 2 shivs for kb

[rotund oak]

and a tea dont forget the tea

for some xtra sauce

[gusty mirage]

It’s missing slice and dice

[royal lantern]

thats not depression

thats cooking

[shy pecan]

SnD forever

[rotund oak]

[ember mural]

Real

[vestal wren]

snd should be passive on all 3 specs

it hasn't rly proven to be a interessting key press

[dark token]

Same thing goes for poisons on outlaw/sub

[vestal wren]

and all 3 now have passive options to either not cast it or cast it less frequently

[dark token]

Both were added in BFA because hurddurrr people miss classic it was peak wow omg let's add these useless spells to get back to rogue identity

[vestal wren]

i think poisons should be

once per login

so you keep the nostalgia/engagement

[dark token]

Every time you change spec is annoying

As someone who multispec

Only sin should have poisons

Outlaw/sub don't really care and don't have gameplay interactions with em

[vestal wren]

thats what they did in legion and changd back later

[dark token]

Ye ik I'm saying the bfa thing was a mistake

[vestal wren]

it was SL

not bfa

[dark token]

Was it BFA that added snd back

Or was both in SL

Anyway

Even if they keep them

[vestal wren]

they did for SL, because of nostalgia

[dark token]

Ain't no one nostalgic for snd

Or applying instant poison on sub

[vestal wren]

the success of classic was basically the kickstart of the idea to bring classic mechanics to modern wow

[dark token]

Ye that was a mistake

Keep classic classic

[grizzled jay]

Adding CttC back was the bigger mistake

[dark token]

Modern wow has improved from it

[vestal wren]

it was an interessting cycle

bfa trid to slim down specs to the core and remove redundancy

[dark token]

No one wants old clunky RPG mechanics in my modern PvE instanced combat hacknslash

[grizzled jay]

Current Sin plays a lot similar to Cata Sin, kinda funny.

[vestal wren]

DF did the complete opposite and tried to add a lot of complexity for the sake of it

[grizzled jay]

Just with Deathmark, SD, and KB

[vestal wren]

i think too much damage on sin is in cooldowns

[grizzled jay]

Cause Cata is the expansion where Sin presses Backstab in Execute. Gets removed in MoP then DF adds it back (kinda).

[vestal wren]

KB does a shitton of damage, and while its nice to have this burst

it also relies on critical strikes now to be "nice"

[grizzled jay]

So the feel of Cata and DF Sin is pretty close.

[vestal wren]

having more damage in bleeds would feel more in line to

... well how assassiantion worked for years ...

[grizzled jay]

Yeah but a lot of Sins hated 8.3 Sin which is when it was full on bleed

I loved it tho

[vestal wren]

people hated 8.3 sin

not becaue of bleeds but because of corruption

corruption powers did lead to a energy overflow

basically, what happened was you could just delete your energy bar

because it was always full

and a lot of people loved it

because it removed any thinking about ressource management

and made you never wait to use a spell

to be exact, a lot of long term players did not like it, so it was mixed feedback

[woeful meteor]

can still loot in Raid but at least this is a real trinket now

[royal lantern]

how can you say so many words that are just bullshit

like srsly

[storm belfry]

lmao based

both my druids looted that today

[royal lantern]

every 2nd sentence that comes from you is some "league of legends ranked only" bullshit

[dark token]

Wat

That sentence translates to "keep classic to classic, retail is better and should be it's own unique thing, we can go pay classic if we want that"

[vestal wren]

if you want to appreciate random m+ keys, you can play a game of ranked soloq in league

[dark token]

Which I don't think is a bad take?

[woeful meteor]

this took more tries than branch on my rogue also fort bolstering needs to be removed shit is so cringe

[royal lantern]

it kinda is if you think that "remove rpg mechanics from my game cus i only care about m+, a mode nobody gives a shit about beyond doing weekly +20 keys for free loot"

was adding back SnD a mistake? yes

is poisons comming back good? yes

1 hour duration on them? bad again cus its pointless

[vestal wren]

i think its just a consequence of design

not every decision will be a W

there are always some L's

[royal lantern]

ye

but RPG mechanics are important

its a frking mmorpg

[vestal wren]

yes, but everyone defines rpg mechanics diffrent

[royal lantern]

might aswell go full ff14 otherwhise, where every class is just a re-skin of eachother

almost 0 balance problems, cus they all do excatly the same and abilitys are litearlly just re-skins, but hey its better balance for a "hack and slash PvE game"

(gameplay is the worst part about ff14 cus of it btw)

[normal mist]

((it's true, I've put 100 days /played, and gameplay is indeed the worst part))

[past forum]

It’s simple, make every single spec fun and engaging with just enough complexity but no bloating and also make them 100% balanced in all content. Just do that and game’s saved

[normal mist]

Also ff14 is an rpg first and an MMO later, what they lack in gameplay (in terms of fighting) they have extra in the fight designs in my opinion

(talking about raids, trials, etc)

[royal lantern]

you forgot "and also make them unqiue" ("unique" beeing a term that everyone just defines different)

[past forum]

And also have build diversity but also make every build good in everything

[normal mist]

That's such a weird take

Did you read what you wrote before sending?

Stupid example : why would a ST build, designed to do the most ST DMG possible, shine in an AoE scenario?

[clever sapphire]

im pretty sure he was being sarcastic

[normal mist]

I saw no sarcastic emotes, fuck me

This is why emotes exist 💀

I'll crawl back to another channel and die from shame for a bit

[agile geode]

Sin rogue design rn is on his perfect form imho

[pseudo hamlet]

Nah, too much focused on Kingsbane and the AoE sucks. Everything need to live for like 10 minutes to actually unleash full potential of the spec

[agile geode]

outlaw is cool but i a bit awkward, sub too is good, only the vanish mechanics is shit

[spice spire]

It’s not perfect imo

But it’s definitely in a better form than it has been in recent memory for all content. Revolving around kb kinda sux tho

Hoping dungeon pools next season allow for build diversity

[quiet oar]

You are a diverse build

Gottem

[spice spire]

Ty king

[tepid hornet]

its kinda satisfying to dot things in open world and u can just go and they drop in 2 sec

[arctic socket]

Nice

[royal lantern]

i mean, did you do it?

[arctic socket]

I traded a guildie 50gold for some consumables

[royal lantern]

and now the full truth

[proven jasper]

exposed

[arctic socket]

That is the full truth

Well it could be me buying the mount off of someone for 500g

[spice spire]

Krill issue

Seems like a classic Andy issue tbh

[royal lantern]

its just

everytime somebody comes and says "i got banned for no reason", there actually IS a reason

[spice spire]

I’ve seen people banned for no reason

It definitely does happen

[royal lantern]

new trees out

its sub/outlaw

lmao im happy we dont have to deal with that BS

DEFFENSIVE SKILLS AS OFFENSIVE ABILITYS

[subtle tundra]

surely we say some bad stuff and they dont actually do this

[limber lion]

always feint before pressing kb

[royal lantern]

thats outlaw sub

[limber lion]

jk we still get parried

[royal lantern]

not assa

[limber lion]

I know

[royal lantern]

we are spared

[subtle tundra]

feint last 5 seconds

of kb

POG!

[royal lantern]

distract as offensive cd

holy shit poor subs

first they have to play the garbage spec that is sub and then THAT

[woeful meteor]

and it's a tree for law

[tepid hornet]

assass feels so chill after playing outlaw for a while xD

its smooth too

[proven jasper]

[tepid hornet]

one is slow smooth other fast smooth

i like the assass pace

[proven jasper]

Trickster is not it yall LMAO

jeez

I cant wait to killing spree!!

[tepid hornet]

are there stat breakpoint for assass? like i need a minimum of something?

[royal lantern]

no breakpoints

[tepid hornet]

or just priority and sim

[royal lantern]

that stuff doesnt exist in modern wow

you sim gear

stat breakpoints only really existed cus people didnt sim back in the days

or like, it was not wide spread

[bright turret]

Wonder what you gotta smok to think "ah yes lets make rogue's defensive a core part of damage rotation"

[proven jasper]

You put on whatever gear gives you bigger number

[tepid hornet]

i know, but still some specs like want a minimum amount of haste at least or something along these lines dont they?

[proven jasper]

Whoever made that tree has never once played a rogue

I think

[bright turret]

I think they were trying to be clever since sometimes you press feint a lot

[royal lantern]

"press feint as a offensive cd, use DISTRACT as a offensive cd (which is a ground targeted ability which suck too use mid roation) and force outlaw into killing spree, ability nobody likes"

oh and "take aoe dmg on purpose for more dmg"

[bright turret]

but i don't think people want another button as part of their damage rotation

[tepid hornet]

assass doin well in m+?

[proven jasper]

Its okay

[royal lantern]

weaker then outlaw and sub, but its good overall

[proven jasper]

other two rogue specs better

[royal lantern]

you wont struggle in your normal keys cus you play assa

just can feel kinda bad in low keys cus stuff dies fast

and your aoe dmg is slow and needs some buildup

[tepid hornet]

i barely know what im doin and i see the dps and it was looking much higher than i thought

so im thinking what if i knew

[green juniper]

bois I dont have a shammy discord and you guys are the smartest ones for some reason.. is ench shaman wort it to level is it fun ?

[tepid hornet]

i have some trouble with garrote on multiple targets that live long enough to need refreshes, if you dont have vanish to reapply garrotes quick, how do u do it?

do u reapply early to have cd up?

if i apply lets say on opener, if i wait pandemic to reapply garrotes, i cant without it dropping on some targets?

[royal lantern]

how should we know if you think its fun lol

its a fast spec that is heavy proc based

if thats your style, sure

[green juniper]

we all are sin rogue spammers we probably think a like i think

[royal lantern]

its overall gameplay is more like outlaw

fast button mashing, reacting to things happening

[green juniper]

[royal lantern]

if that helps you

[green juniper]

yeah thanks

[royal lantern]

its more "clearer" and obvious then outlaw tbh

like, outlaw has some weird things in its kit and is overall a spec that crutches on weird interactions

ench shaman is just "you use many abilitys, your procs hit HARD"

[tepid hornet]

on multiple targets that live more than garrote duration, and you dont have vanish, how do u reapply garrotes? u dont wait pandemic?

bcos the cd makes it hard i think

[royal lantern]

you spread your bleeds in aoe once wide

after that its mostly just "keep them running on important targets"

[tepid hornet]

does rupture also have some kind of empowerment like garrote does after stealth?

it doesnt right?

[marble hemlock]

through Nightstalker, but nearly as potent

[misty holly]

Did they really just make feint a dps move for outlaw/sub? Those poor rogues lol.

[vestal wren]

giving some ideas for outlaw / assassination

• sprint now applies a find weakness like "bleed" effect if you run through your targets

[proven jasper]

Oh please no

[royal lantern]

and cloak of shadows is a 15%dmg amp

[proven jasper]

dont do that to me

[vestal wren]

yes

[royal lantern]

we need to dig deeper

into bad mechanics

[proven jasper]

NO DEFENSIVE BUTTONS AS OFFENSIVE

[vestal wren]

cloak of shadows is also a brilliant idea

but i rly like the sprint idea

[proven jasper]

Yeah cloak gives +15% magic damage

Great idea

[vestal wren]

because you need to actively need to run through your targets

[proven jasper]

Makes sure to cloak last 6 seconds of your kb

[misty holly]

cloak reflecting magic damage would be kinda cool. But come on dont turn defensives into rotation abilities

[proven jasper]

If it reflected it, itd just be spell reflect for warriors

[loud light]

this is like taking that "dispatch deals more damage based on your runspeed" legion lego and cooking for a bit

[vestal wren]

could be a talent node

we already have almost half of the tree done

nice

[weary stump]

Clearly what they need to do is give us a pocket sand ability in outlaw assassination

[proven jasper]

i just hope deathstalker gives us some real cool stuff

Im very hopeful

Even after seeing the trickster tree

[subtle tundra]

i have 0 expectations

i'd rather them not do hero talents lol

and just expand the normal tree

[proven jasper]

Shit id be happy if they gave us even one of the defensive talents sub/law have

not fair they get them all

[weary stump]

Give us the ability to sap people in combat

[vestal wren]

deathstalker is the one i look for the most tbh

[proven jasper]

Same

to me it seems like the one that can be fucked up the least

but idk

[grizzled jay]

Oh shit we have talents

[proven jasper]

Yeah sub/law tree is out

[misty holly]

thing is, if feint still worked like it did in 2004 where it was just threat reduction then okay cool. This tree would be fine with that version of feint. But we already got the bonus effects to feint when they made it reduce aoe damage - now that is the primary function of the ability. Even being called "feint" today is like a legcy thing that isn't indicitive of what the skill does anymore.

[vestal wren]

trickster, at least from the name seemed like one of the coolest themes

you could do all kind of trickery/illusion stuff

[proven jasper]

i expected it to be a pvp tree kinda but

[vestal wren]

missed oppotunity

[proven jasper]

Yeah

Bigtime

[vestal wren]

now its

"haha, i used a defensive BUT ACTUALLY i used a offensive"

[proven jasper]

Not even a hidden opportunity just a missed one

[vestal wren]

🤯

[proven jasper]

yeah i dont like that

ngl i already dont even like pressing feint

[grizzled jay]

That talent tree seems really bad for Outlaw!

Why we pushing Outlaw towards Mastery lol

[proven jasper]

Yeah like

Atleast it seems USABLE for sub?

[vestal wren]

its interessting

[proven jasper]

Atleast a little bit

[vestal wren]

well keep in mind

its the first iteration

[grizzled jay]

OL players hate KS

[proven jasper]

but like it straight up forces outlaw into ks which is dog

[vestal wren]

so it shows the direction they want to go in tww

[proven jasper]

ks is just a terrible ability rn

yeah it does

[vestal wren]

but isn't a complete thing

[grizzled jay]

This would be like if they attached the same idea to Exsang for Sin

[vestal wren]

tww is still quite a bit away and its likly that we see changes

[proven jasper]

just feels like they picked the least used abilities

and tried to make them do something

[uneven bronze]

when they see how unhappy people are they probably will make changes no?

[vestal wren]

i do like the distract idea

[grizzled jay]

They will

They changed Oracle already

[proven jasper]

The distract idea actually got my attention a little too

Also like

Ive been wanting smoke bomb as a pve ability

For a min

Could easily do something with smoke bomb

[vestal wren]

it might be just flavor, its unclear if its a smoke bomb effect

could be just fancy visuals

[proven jasper]

yeah probably knowing blizz

[spice surge]

Worth keeping in mind a lot of the times people have no idea what they'd actually want, like yeah the feint thing doesnt sound great but since it has such a short cd and 2 charges i doubt itll actually cause much friction at all.

[misty holly]

Bringing smoke bomb back as a pve ability would be ideal.

[spice surge]

Like for example when people heard the "meme dragonflying boss" was gonna be the penultimate boss everybody said it was doomed

[proven jasper]

i mean im pretty sure the feint thing actually is going to be real strong

it just sounds like ass

[spice surge]

Turns out its among the best bosses they've ever made

[proven jasper]

Agreed actually tindral is a dope boss

[misty holly]

Yeah amping damage, giving combo points, more talents to buff it. Pretty strong. But once it's a rotational ability you lose it as a defensive.

[spice surge]

But ye having 30%+ uptime on a 50% aoe reduction is gonna be insanely strong

[proven jasper]

Yeah man

[spice surge]

We're already immortal anyway

[proven jasper]

outlaw is only getting tankier

Real cool

meanwhile still not even 1 defensive talent in ass tree

[vestal wren]

counter point.
The season 3/4 SL tier set

[misty holly]

Relax, we haven't seen the fatebound tree yet. Sprint will give +15% dodge chance or something for added defensives.

[uneven bronze]

in what situation does it sound fun to drop feint in the middle of your rotation

[vestal wren]

i agree that its unclear how the changes play out, it seems less prblematic overall

the tree is fine, but it only has small parts that seem exciting

[spice surge]

What?

[proven jasper]

Yeah cant wait to be forced into fatebound tree bc it has all the defensives

[spice surge]

It does damage and gives combo points

Does pressing shiv feel terrible as assa?

[proven jasper]

Yeah i mean theyre basically making it part of the rotation

Just give outlaw cannonball barrage at this point also

[tepid hornet]

at how many targets u use fan instead of mutilate?

[proven jasper]

I believe 3+

[grizzled jay]

What's Unseen Blade

[marble hemlock]

I'm gonna shit on your parade and say that having even more utility tied to DPS to the point where the utility has to fall to the way side if you want to do maximum DPS; which is what the game will be tuned around, will essentially once again lock us into a situation where we have to forcibly choose between doing less DPS or not having the same utility.

I think after all those years of complaining about tricks being a DPS Increase that eventually got removed, and all the years of complaining about vanish being a DPS CD for us, but not the other specs, they are going more and more in the wrong direction with this.

Vanish is now a big DPS CD for all specs, probably more so for Outlaw/Sub than us at this point, and this feint/distract stuff just exacerbates the issue.

[vestal wren]

initial point in the hero talent tree

[tepid hornet]

pog

thats sick

[grizzled jay]

Hmm

Feint being permanently added to rotation is weird

[marble hemlock]

I don't see why this stuff has to be tied to utility skills, instead of introducing either new skills that do the exact same (smoke bomb instead of distract, revealing strike instead of this feint stuff), or at least tie it to actual dps skills.

[proven jasper]

My exact feelings

[spice surge]

They cant introduce new skills because people are already complaining about there being too many buttons

[tepid hornet]

dont think that means we will use feint every 5 sec thats a bit weird no?

[grizzled jay]

Hotbar bloat fears

[spice surge]

But like, does pressing shiv as assa feel horrible?

[marble hemlock]

Warriors had the same shit with ignore pain giving a dmg buff and they hated it too. I honestly' dont know anybody who actually likes it.

[tepid hornet]

feint on cd xD

[proven jasper]

Outlaw probably will

[marble hemlock]

In a raging week it sure does

Outside of raging, ofc not, because it just does that one thing, which is DPS: It doesn't have any other value, because lets face it, the 70% crippling slow from shiv has no use in pve.

[vestal wren]

smoke bomb distract seems fine

it just adds a trade off

[royal lantern]

lets not get ahead of yourself

[grizzled jay]

The 1hr Tricks is really cool!

[royal lantern]

tindral is not really liked eleem

[marble hemlock]

"we need you to distract a pack in a minute" "sorry that means ill do 10% less dps this pull" "just get a warrior, at least he buffs battleshout"

[spice surge]

Are you high?

[royal lantern]

i wish

[proven jasper]

Yes

[royal lantern]

not legal

and im poor

[grizzled jay]

Don't you just take No Scruples instead

[vestal wren]

secret technique applies fazed too, so you can easy spread it

[marble hemlock]

for 5 sec, vs distracts 10

[misty holly]

Lets play a game of guess which underused skill will become part of our rotation with the other paths.
Death Stalker: Shadowstep scares your target and your next ambush or backstab deals an additional 500% damage. - Detect Traps also detects the weakness in your opponents armor all damage increased by 10% for 6 seconds.

Fatebound: When safefall triggers the fates are on your side, all abilities have cooldown reduced by 15 seconds. Kick: when a spell is kicked the opponent curses your name, but the gods are on your side and instead they are cursed and take extra damage for 6 seconds.

[marble hemlock]

so you can choose to only have 33% of the fazed uptime you could have, or 100%. that seems like a really bad decision to be forced into for utility vs dps

[grizzled jay]

15. 10s duration but debuff will last 5 more seconds after cloud is gone.

[vestal wren]

*both is 5 secs

[proven jasper]

I can totally see the shadowstep one too

[vestal wren]

feint is 5 secs too

[proven jasper]

oh boy

[vestal wren]

so its not as dire

[marble hemlock]

but distract lasts 10+5sec fade time

[normal mist]

Me reading the Trickster stuff: "yadayadayada Fazed yadayadayada Fazed"

[marble hemlock]

i seriously doubt that

[vestal wren]

ye, so ideally you can get 15 secs of fazed from it

[marble hemlock]

distract is gonna be a 90sec dps cd on 2 specs that can reduce CD

[misty holly]

I'm hoping for the safefall one. I want it to be ideal for the rogue to run around jumping off high rocks over and over to max their dps

[marble hemlock]

and its gonna be aoe fazed

[grizzled jay]

Fatebound will be tied to Main Gauche and DP procs, since both are a fixed chance that can be increased.

[vestal wren]

it allows some optimization around dps for sure

[marble hemlock]

like, rotationally speaking, i think this trickster tree is really fucking good. i just dont understand why it has to be tied to:

1. a utility cd
2. a defensive cd
3. an outlaw capstone talent
4. forces sub into playing dust

[proven jasper]

Yeah fatebound for us is EASILY gonna have something to do with seal fate, master assassin maybe more crit gamba?

if theres no seal fate talent synergy ill be real surprised

[vestal wren]

you probably want to use secret and feint thi

because both proc

so you want the mastery for your aoe

[spice surge]

Fairly sure its gonna be the opposite of forcing sub into playing dust, theres very little in the tree thats CD oriented

[vestal wren]

means smoke bomb is just in terms of optimization lower in priority

still not a fan of feint as offensive cd

[marble hemlock]

coup de grace is interesting design, although i think it misses the mark because while youll want to get the damage amp on your big hits, youre not gonna hold your sectec or ks just because youre already at 2 unseen dagger stacks. sure, you could feint twice to get the amp but now youve just spent 2 GCDs just to get to 4 instead of sending everything on CD like always

youll also get the mastery bump after using your big hit, which is weird.

[vestal wren]

i assume the mastery is after the initial secret hit

what could make it perfectly fine

[marble hemlock]

it doesnt proc on sectec

it procs on evis/bp

[vestal wren]

flawless form says "secret technique"

[marble hemlock]

im talking about coup de grace

which gives 5 stacks of flawless form

[vestal wren]

oh yes sry missed that

[marble hemlock]

so youll get 15% mastery after using evis/bp/ks with 4 unseen blade stacks. so do you hold sectec if youre at 3 stacks already? do you use feint, potentially overcap cp? it just screams "shtech 2.0" to me

but i think it could lead to interesting reactive gameplay

just... why feint

[spice surge]

Why would you hold

Its not capped

[marble hemlock]

because youd wanna use the sectec after you get the 5 stack mastery buff, not before

[normal mist]

Won't it be a problem if those specs turn into a feint spam and they wont have it for actually defensive stuff or it will be up so often that it wont matter?

[marble hemlock]

well, feint has 2 charges so you could easily expend one, then hold the other and basically use it ~on cd

and still have 1 feint charge left for defense

[spice surge]

Up so often that it doesnt matter

[minor gate]

Giving mastery to outlaw as well doesn’t seem that good

[marble hemlock]

that too, but i think thats besides the point

they can just change what stat it gives, its the idea thats important

cause that is likely going to stay

[vestal wren]

auto attacks triggering unseen blades is def. an interessting decision

[marble hemlock]

just sounds like shtech to me

idk

[vestal wren]

well it plays into coup

because it does remove control

[marble hemlock]

instead of auto attacks giving energy/cp, you get a stack of unseen blade which will give you fazed and stack up towards the coup the grace proc

[pseudo hamlet]

what the fuck are these hero talents hahahaha

[marble hemlock]

i legit think if you replace "feint" with "new skill#1" and "distract" with "new skill#2" this tree would be banger

[minor gate]

Making tricks an hour is wild though

[vestal wren]

idk, i don't think its a banger

[normal mist]

dungeon wise its cool

since there's only 1 tank really

[marble hemlock]

theres enough in it that it might favor certain talents, and if you dont like those talents, youll just play the other hero tree. and its impactful and rotationally impactful enough, that it might change the way you play or create reactive gameplay. i think thats great.

[proven jasper]

The only banger talent in there is the hour long tricks tbr

[vestal wren]

the smoke bomb talent could be nice or dissapointing

[normal mist]

BACK IN MY DAYS IT USED TO BE A DEFENSIVE! (feel old yet?)

[marble hemlock]

its weird that theyre giving 10% crit to finishers vs fazed, and 25% cdam to builders

[pseudo hamlet]

Fatebound hero talent idea: Whenever you lock pick your haste is increased by 5% for 10 seconds.

[minor gate]

I don’t think i just never thought about having to use it like a raid buff thing

[normal mist]

permanently >>

[marble hemlock]

"Pickpocket now grants you 1% Haste for 1 hr, stacking up to 20 times"

Go pickpocket some trash before raid

[lean aurora]

the true classic design experience

[normal mist]

"guys summon me, i'm in Nighthold pickpocketing, already at 345 stacks"

[bright turret]

Already have enough buttons as it is, don't really need new skills just so a hero tree is less garbage

[marble hemlock]

at least this means

rogue will be perma pick in MDI again because itll pull 15 different packs for the tank while theyre scratching their balls

think theyll have to limit the range of tricks to like 40y or 50y instead of 100, cause otherwise this might lead to... things.

[grizzled jay]

Make it 1000

[marble hemlock]

especially because its only the activation thats limited to 100y, once its triggered and you have the 6sec buff, you can pull whatever you want with it

[grizzled jay]

Let us snapshot minibosses to the tank

[grizzled jay]

Soon we can just pull all of AD at once

Have Rogue go pull the dino miniboss on to Rezan 😌

[marble hemlock]

then have it randomly reset because your tank got hit by storming

oh wait thats already happening now

[agile geode]

They see rogue tank on SoD and they tought "why not even on retail?"

[arctic socket]

Rogue in sod is in a bad spot

[sharp viper]

https://tenor.com/view/shrek-pitchfork-kill-burn-stake-gif-11227021

just read the new talent tree

[arctic socket]

Rogue be getting shitted on in retail

Everywhere

[arctic socket]

There’s a new talent tree?

[sharp viper]

#wowheadnews message

[forest nacelle]

is rogue really that bad in a spot? even ass rogues?

or are you talking about pug life?

[marble hemlock]

sub is doing very well

outlaw has an unusable damage profile

assa is just the little brother that wasnt planned but your parents got too drunk on eggnog after christmas

[forest nacelle]

i tried playing sub in an 18 for giggles, how do ppl play it....

[marble hemlock]

keyboard+mouse usually

[forest nacelle]

you know what i mean.....

[marble hemlock]

[arctic socket]

Yes

[marble hemlock]

but ye idk

shadowdust isnt fun to play, imo

its awkward

[raven egret]

I mean, sub doing good but I feel Shadowdust created a rift between people who played it - it's taken the spec over and thats not fun. Thankfully they do dmg so, yay...

[marble hemlock]

but you get used to it

i think if sub did bad damage

there would be a lot more criticism about it

[forest nacelle]

i can't do AoE with sub. i guess my brain is just DoT oriented.

[bright turret]

it's easy to like it when it makes sub the best raid spec in the game

[raven egret]

Sin is taken over by KB but at least I like that ability.

[tepid hornet]

the only thing kinda feel off on assass is ur sprint is literally 1 min

[marble hemlock]

but it has crazy good damage patterns so its very strong on basically every important fight this tier

[tepid hornet]

u cant reduce it can u?>

[raven egret]

I pray so hard for Dust to be nuked so that Sub can breathe again

[marble hemlock]

its more than enough tho

[tepid hornet]

well its still good

[marble hemlock]

between having high base ms, sprint and 2 steps, i dont think ive ever run into mobility issues

[tepid hornet]

not sayinnn

[forest nacelle]

but i got 12% leech 😄

instead of 6%

[tepid hornet]

and also

u basically cant go without thistle tea? its significant dmg from any other talent for that point?

my stats are not good but when i sim without thistle tea it was 8% dmg loss

dunno if its correct

thats pretty big

[proven jasper]

tea is big for us

Mastery buff = huge, plus the energy considering we are the most energy starved rogue spec

[marble hemlock]

having more energy is just very nice

[proven jasper]

Yes

[forest nacelle]

its the mastery for KB which was important

[proven jasper]

yeah i mean currently all roads lead to kb

[forest nacelle]

yea

[tepid hornet]

is there builds that dont use shiv rotationally?

or thats big dmg too?

[spice spire]

No

Buffs nature damage. And we do a lot of nature damage

[marble hemlock]

hope yall ready for dmg amp after shadowstep to snapshot your dots.

for the sub+assa tree

[vestal wren]

sub + outlaw -> feint is a dps cooldown
sin + outlaw -> sprint is a dops cooldown
sub + sin -> shadowstep is a damage cooldown

[grizzled jay]

Luckily I've been playing Sub in wotlk which already does this lol

[sharp viper]

wdym? there's gonna be a rune to run around like in the legion world quests, once you do that for 2-3 laps you get a damage amplification after you shadow step to a friendly target afterwards to an enemy target (damage increased by more rounds)

[spice spire]

Real

[proven jasper]

[marble hemlock]

ye, outlaw+sub gonna get "if youve run a full circle around the enemy target while sprint is active, your next finisher after your next 2 builders will have a 17% chance to proc a thing that lets your next vanish apply a buff to your next finisher"

[proven jasper]

If we have to be marathon men to do damage im going back to everquest

[void mesa]

This sounds both hilarious and depressing at the same time

[proven jasper]

Yes

[void mesa]

I kinda hope we dont get more "utility becomes dmg", I think the feint thing is "okay" but no more

[spice spire]

Also good job not being the first slow mode of spoiler season homies

I’m proud of u all

[marble hemlock]

i mean

[sharp viper]

but feint isn't utility... it's defense

[marble hemlock]

thats cause it doesnt affect us nearly as much

you think if this wouldve been a sub+assa tree, we wouldnt have gone slowmode already?

[arctic socket]

Ret paladin has a cool looking tree

Rogues tree is wierd

I don’t like jt

[void mesa]

Its cause we technically didnt get our hero talent

[spice spire]

0 shot

I’d be yelling at dumbasses

[marble hemlock]

exactly

[gusty mirage]

popping in to say nerf dust

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

feint as a dps cooldown is cringe

[spice spire]

Amen brethren

[shy pecan]

lol who got sent to spoiler mode?

[gusty mirage]

and get me out of here

[marble hemlock]

i ate a bag of chips while trying to have a conversation about it in outlaw but was kinda impossible

[spice spire]

Omegalaw

[proven jasper]

Yeah it was ww3 in there for a min

[arctic socket]

@spice spire can you give me a tree review?

[gusty mirage]

quake out here proud of the 3.5 people still playing assassination

times are tough

[proven jasper]

Who is the .5

[sharp viper]

feint+distract make you go pew pew

[void mesa]

oh god what is happening in outlaw

[gusty mirage]

that's not hyperbole btw

[arctic socket]

New quake just dropped?

[spice spire]

4/10
Not a fan of defensive and utility playing a dps role. Been critical of shiv for this reason in the past

[gusty mirage]

feint + distract make you pew pew

[spice spire]

See the logic just not a fan

[spice spire]

Me because I don’t play

I’m just around

[gusty mirage]

y'all hype for the 5% damage buff for shadowstepping the target?

[arctic socket]

So my defensive button is now

A damage thing

[gusty mirage]

if I'm right, I'm uninstalling wow

[spice spire]

Yes man

[arctic socket]

[sharp viper]

I wouldn't mind distract and pick pocket to be given an use mid combat

[spice spire]

About to shadowstep to u oxi

5% mental dam

[bright turret]

CoS becoming a DPS CD will be a banger obv

[gusty mirage]

don't worry, surely the war within is when we get those pickpocketable crimson vial buffs we were promised at blizzconline

[bright turret]

time to cull the weak

[arctic socket]

Mid fight tickles bosses nut sack for a 3% damage buff (pick pocket)

[proven jasper]

Pog

[gusty mirage]

any day now

SURELY

[sharp viper]

hope that's stackable so you blow both your SS on burst

[proven jasper]

Omg recup BUFF MAYBE?

[gusty mirage]

they should focus on making recoup work properly first imo

[void mesa]

What if reapplying poisons is gonna give us a shorter dmg buff and we have to reapply the same poison we already have?

[proven jasper]

yes

LMAO

[sharp viper]

there's no way blizzard promises something and doesn't deliver

[arctic socket]

Bring back poison charges at this point

[proven jasper]

Honestly make poison last 10 mins only

[spice spire]

Silence classic Andy

[sharp viper]

did you say vanishing powder?

[proven jasper]

I wanna have to keep reapplying

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

I'm holding out hope, it was shelved in shadowlands for the banger flagellation covenant ability that came out 1 week before release, and needed 2 globals to actually do less dps than not pressing it at all

[arctic socket]

Only able to be applied in stealth

[spice spire]

God real

The mog tho

[gusty mirage]

door of shadows goated, venthyr since day 1 don't @ me

[spice spire]

Amen

I left for my love

[arctic socket]

Kyrian ability was goat

[spice spire]

Delete this nephew

[sharp viper]

ER was great fun*

[proven jasper]

Flag + kb combo surely balanced just give it to us

[spice spire]

Sbs literally goat ability

Fleshcraft double goat

[arctic socket]

Nephew huh

Naw

[spice spire]

Ye

[arctic socket]

Kyrian ability hit different

Even if the tmog was shit

[proven jasper]

nah cant defend u on that one nephew

[spice spire]

That’s my bit wtf

[proven jasper]

LMAO

i aint hears someone call anyone nephew in years

[arctic socket]

Been out uncled

Damn

[spice spire]

I’m old as fuck Sue me

[oak sky]

Can it unc

[sharp viper]

you guys are aunt(s) and/or uncle(s) now

[proven jasper]

Time for ur nap huh

[spice spire]

Andrew I s2g you sass me again and I’ll kiss you on the mouth

[sharp viper]

congratulations, grab a marriage certificate and a pitchfork on your way out

[arctic socket]

Aunt kastle, will you give me a log review?

[spice spire]

Nah sleep is for the weak

[arctic socket]

Take your meds old man @spice spire

[spice spire]

Got no meds. Just some migraine medication for u fucks sometimes

[proven jasper]

🪵 4/10 not that cool seen bigger logs in my life

[arctic socket]

I didn’t send you anything yet

[oak sky]

Chikadancenogfguy.mp4

[arctic socket]

Sec

[spice spire]

Ur real for that

[arctic socket]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-gif-26319702

[spice spire]

Proud of u for that one dog

[arctic socket]

Updogg

[spice spire]

Man it feels like wrongdog in here

[proven jasper]

I calls it like i sees it

Whats wrongdog

[spice spire]

God I miss her

[proven jasper]

u can tell me

me too

[spice spire]

Amen big dog

@ember mural it’s a joke

Smdh

[ember mural]

I will not suck anything ty

[spice spire]

??????

[proven jasper]

LMAO

[shy pecan]

[proven jasper]

HUH

[ember mural]

Idk suck my dick hater popped into my head

[spice spire]

Unironically the second person that’s said that to me

[ember mural]

[spice spire]

[ember mural]

I'm unhinged

[spice spire]

Brother

I been holding it in

It’s about to get wicked

[proven jasper]

[spice spire]

[ember mural]

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

im too busy eating to actively judge you but know I'm judgng you

[spice spire]

That’s my job

[proven jasper]

I read that as edating

[spice spire]

Seek help bestie

[proven jasper]

ur so right

Ive been infected

[spice spire]

Unluigi

[grizzled jay]

#wow-general message

Totally figured out the Outlaw/Sin gimmick.

[proven jasper]

[sharp viper]

someone said sedating?

[spice spire]

[grizzled jay]

quake knows I'm right

[proven jasper]

I know you could be right and thats what scares me

[royal lantern]

its a good day to be awake

cus i saw that we didnt get that pile of shit tree

[proven jasper]

i can only imagine this channel if any of our trees are that cursed

[royal lantern]

i mean, i can understand them rn

cus man, its Bad bad

with a capital B

[gusty mirage]

you don't like the idea of pressing feint/distract as a dps button?

[royal lantern]

[proven jasper]

i dont even like pressing it as a defensive

[gaunt moat]

wth, they released hero talents for everything but assassination 👺

[royal lantern]

allready said to fuu

dEaThStAlKeR should have dmg amp on sprint and cloak

[royal lantern]

shaman says hi

monk says whats up

[proven jasper]

Lock too

The lock ones kinda goated

[royal lantern]

lock got one

and its good

like, really good

[gusty mirage]

I hope this is true

[proven jasper]

Yeah that one sounds suck

[gaunt moat]

We don't to whataboutism here

i only complain about rogue

[royal lantern]

what the trees are supoosed to be, your overall gameplay gets improved

and not this shity "we make a minigame on top of your gameplay xd"

[proven jasper]

Id say they actively made the gameplay for both trickster specs WAY WORSE lmao

[royal lantern]

🙂

yes

[proven jasper]

Like tf is sub gonna do

[royal lantern]

that tree has legit 0 salvagable stuff

except the meme 1hour tricks

[proven jasper]

Seriously

[gaunt moat]

I'm just reading it now
using utilities for DPS omega cringe

[proven jasper]

Sub rogues gonna be quadruple feinting in openers

[royal lantern]

like, i get the base idea

"use your deffensive abilitys and get rewarded for it"

just

thats NOT HOW IT WORKS BLIZZARD

its the opposite, you gonna use feint on cd for dmg, and not for deffensive value

[vestal wren]

i like defensives/utility and offensive strictly seperated

[gaunt moat]

It's bad enough we use vanish for DPS
why do they have to triple down on bad ideas?

[vestal wren]

hot take, i think vanish is fine

[marble hemlock]

think we all do

[vestal wren]

because vanish is more niche

[proven jasper]

I think vanish ended up being fine the way its used also

[marble hemlock]

vanish is fine for us now, but its not fine for outlaw/sub anymore. and in SL/BFA, vanish was too big of a dps increase for us to not use it just for utility

[vestal wren]

its just like shiv for assassiantion

[gusty mirage]

you only say its fine now because you were stockholmed into thinking its fine now

[marble hemlock]

if the dps gain is small, its barely acceptable imo

but overall i think

[vestal wren]

it can be annoying if you could utialize it better

[gusty mirage]

vanish is the same as it was in BFA

[marble hemlock]

utility being dps is fucking awful, or mobility for that matter. momentum for DH is fucking trash, dont @ me

[gaunt moat]

It's not fine when you need to use it in dungeons for some mechanics, but you also need it for DPS
hecc, even in raids sometimes you need vanish (ex: roots on tindral. but yes, we have alternative in the form of cloak for that)

[spice spire]

Shiv vanish and feint as dps

[marble hemlock]

ye but bfa had SS and 75% subterfuge, so not using it on cd for dps was pretty noticeable, whereas now its "just" an MA buff and one NS snapshot

[spice spire]

[marble hemlock]

not being able to vanish the fixate from rezan for example

is just ass

[royal lantern]

realz, if you read us, please for the love of god, bring it back too the drawing board, its really not a good idea

and thats not the ussual "tryan is bitching all the time" cus i wont even play sub/outlaw anyway, but man just the idea reads so bad, i feel bad for the outlaw/sub players

[marble hemlock]

especially when other specs can use theirs freely

dont see hunters or mages getting dps increases from their combat-dropping abilities that can be used to avoid certain mechanics

[spice spire]

Usually bitches, ignoring

[vestal wren]

i think mage had some similar issues

[royal lantern]

shut up mate, im serious for once

[marble hemlock]

imagine if blink gave a dmg amp

[royal lantern]

frost has a similar talent

rn

[marble hemlock]

instead of being used for repositioning

[royal lantern]

where frost shield gives dmg

(its bad)

[vestal wren]

i remember mages complain about it

[gaunt moat]

Well, they'll still have another sub-class to choose from

[grizzled jay]

Outlaw channel seems to like the tree lol

[gaunt moat]

That should tell you everything

[royal lantern]

either guy or zac said its good and the apes follow

[proven jasper]

Zac was calling it pure garbage an hour ago what happened

[spice spire]

Afaik neither like it

[grizzled jay]

Does that make you a reverse ape cause you hate everything we like about Sin

[past forum]

i was hoping they'd hate it so i could go in and say "what are y'all complaining about? it's amazing for pvp"

[royal lantern]

what do i hate about assa

lol

[spice spire]

Think that’s called being based

[spice spire]

Snd

[royal lantern]

thats rogue

its not even a issue for assa

[spice spire]

Amen

[royal lantern]

its pointless, but not big for the spec

[grizzled jay]

What're your opinions on 8.3 Sin

[spice spire]

Gabagool

[proven jasper]

Sin rn i feel is the best its been in a long min

its not perfect or anything

[grizzled jay]

Missing Exsang

[past forum]

holy smokes, pick pocket range increased??? sorry boys, rerolling to outlaw

[proven jasper]

Fuck exsang

[grizzled jay]

[proven jasper]

Exsang was ASS

[shy heron]

All my homies hate exsang

[royal lantern]

im not even engaging with bad troll atempts like that ngl

[spice spire]

Sin seems pretty fun rn. Being based around a singular window feels very different from the last bit of time. And I don’t like the parsing part of the kit, but sin looks good from a design view IMO

Don’t listen to me tho, I’m literally an idiot

[proven jasper]

You’re completely right though

Its great rn

[grizzled jay]

Nothing troll about enjoying the best Sin patch

[proven jasper]

Parsing is BS though

[gaunt moat]

I know you're joking, and it's more for the sap range
but like... who cares even about sap range?

[spice spire]

I got bad news for you tho

[spice spire]

Me

[gaunt moat]

no you don't

[proven jasper]

he definitely doesnt

[grizzled jay]

You can probably sap mobs that see through stealth now from behind

[gilded oasis]

I care, getting close to mobs is spooky

[past forum]

increased sap range is gonna change the game for wpvp

[spice spire]

You ever ran the SD gauntlet and some idiot pulled one of the guards before hand

Increased range

Would have fucked with the lights on

[balmy condor]

the node is for the blind/shroud cooldown, the rest is just flavor

[gilded oasis]

what flavour? chocolcate?

[balmy condor]

thing that confuses me is why feint and distract are dps cooldowns

that's cooked

[gilded oasis]

burnt*

[proven jasper]

One good talent in that tree

is depressing

[spice spire]

They’re just adding onto vanish and shiv man

[past forum]

the flavor is me bein rich cause i pick pocket every bitch in the city

[spice spire]

Soon cloak and evasion will also be Dam abilities

[balmy condor]

like the tree is great, except for the feint/distract stuff being attached to damage

cause like

fuck that

[spice spire]

Based

[gaunt moat]

How come kick doesn't do DPS though

[spice spire]

Wait until u see our tree

[past forum]

every rogue ability in the spellbook will now be worth dps and become part of the rotation

[gilded oasis]

wym I cloak so I can stay in and do damage that counts

[spice spire]

Choose between step and kick for dps

[proven jasper]

make sure to kick the mob the last 6 seconds of ur kb

[balmy condor]

the whole fazed thing is fine, flawless form is good, nimble flurry and coup de grace, all fine

whole thing is good

but then they just hamfisted feint and distract into it

for fun

[gilded oasis]

"sorry guys can't kick I used it for combo points and damage amp"

[spice spire]

Utility/defensive abilities being tied to damage sucks

Even beyond rogue. Hated the IP arms meta

[proven jasper]

If my tank heard me say this

I think hed block me

[past forum]

pretty new to rogue, has vanish always been this important for dps? and will it likely stay this way?

[gilded oasis]

at least all my missed kicks would be worth something right?

[proven jasper]

TRUEEE

[marble hemlock]

momentum 🤡

[proven jasper]

hahaha

[spice spire]

Wow didn’t realize warriors tanks existed, glad he can press shield block

[spice spire]

Don’t remind me

[proven jasper]

Ill kiss u so hard

Rn

[marble hemlock]

make me

[spice spire]

Babe?

@ both

[gilded oasis]

Judge?

[spice spire]

Sup dog

[gilded oasis]

Kitten would like more snack but I said she had enough for the morning, how do you rule?

[spice spire]

Kitten deserves another treat.
The court believes in her constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness, and as such a treat is demanded by the court to be given.

Please feel free to appeal to the next level court

[gilded oasis]

fk ok

back to dooming

[gaunt moat]

Which other buttons do we have as rogue that they can make us use in other trees

[gilded oasis]

Detect

[gaunt moat]

Cloak of shadows is DPS?

[proven jasper]

detect traps

cant wait for that one

[gilded oasis]

yeah you detect more weakness and get a 3% dps boost

[proven jasper]

shit goes so hard

[gilded oasis]

pick lock?

[proven jasper]

yeah we had a little idea for that one

[gilded oasis]

pick the enemie's belt buckle and his pants fall down, increasing damage he takes by 4% for 5 seconds

[proven jasper]

Not sure im a big fan though LMAO

[gaunt moat]

oh no, i just realized what they're gonna do

[balmy condor]

wow edate sim game

[gaunt moat]

They're gonna make using SnD while SnD is active do more damage, so it'll be part of your rotation

[proven jasper]

It also should stun them bc they have to put their pants back on

[gilded oasis]

SND SPLASH?

[proven jasper]

oh god no

[gilded oasis]

bringing up SND just made my cat almost puke on my head

she hates SND

[gaunt moat]

good cat

[balmy condor]

you sure it's a cat and not a bunny?

[gilded oasis]

hmmm 82% sure its a cat

[balmy condor]

I'll take those odds

[gilded oasis]

[gaunt moat]

wait, it's the otherway around

[gilded oasis]

I hope they buff poisoned knife

[balmy condor]

I don't want to find a keybind for poisoned knife

[gilded oasis]

wym its shift 2