assassination just got hit with one too much nerf, it would be more dominant
#assassination
vestal wren
if it didn't recive the last patch of nerfs
but balancing is a interessting science, and it is incredibly hard to get right
royal lantern
assa got nerfed to much, sub gets ignored even thought its overperforming, so assa feels kinda bad rn 
its not bad
violet heron
It's been that way since Amirdrassil released and I've basically just reserved myself to doing M+ here and there at this point because my DPS is so inconsistent compared to times past that I truly have no understanding what exactly I'm doing wrong.
royal lantern
its just bad compared to sub
vestal wren
subtelty is overperforming because the raid allows it to
remember that raid design is a central piece in what is good
you saw how design decisions can have noticable consequences last season already
a end boss handing out high amounts of haste did make subtlety and outlaw fairly ... irrelevant
and performance as a consequence not great
also keep in mind that perception will be impacted by things like this
e.g. a lot of people would say s2 was a subtlety season.
this is the last data point from 10.1.7
violet heron
Sims have been of some use but I've generally performed extremely well in times past however now I just generally laugh at it because I'm consistently pulling 50-60k less than what I should be and I'm not entirely sure what I'm truly doing wrong
vestal wren
best way is usually to reflect on guides, and maybe link a log and ask for help
vestal wren
e.g. a lot of people would say s2 was a subtlety season.
this is the last data p...
to o back on this, this is sark
but wait, wasn't assassiantion supposed to b good at sark?
spice spire
Sims have been of some use but I've generally performed extremely well in times ...
Ur probably fucking up kb windows
vestal wren
and if you change the statistic to boss damage, you now see why people started to play it instead of the other 2
violet heron
I'm certainly being a chuckle fuck somewhere in my rotation if I'm consistently pulling 110-150k DPS at 477 and damn near BiS in Amirdrassil -_-
🚬
Whether it's Kingsbane or the snapshotting of dots
or both collectively
past pebble
need a freaking dagger. i am 2600+ m+ score and still am using 463 crafted daggers. can i craft daggers with higher ilvl?
white orchid
Yea 486
arctic hare
Remember those aspect crests?
past pebble
Remember those aspect crests?
?
arctic hare
you can craft 60 of those into enchanted aspect crests through the professions and use those to upgrade your weapon
white orchid
Have to purchase some item from the enchanting vendor for 60 aspect crests and you use that item to craft the item you use to make your dagger turn into a 486 when y oh redraft
vestal wren
the statistic is even more funny if you assume that aug hooks possibly ended up beeing broken
rare jackal
and if you change the statistic to boss damage, you now see why people started t...
wasnt this only the case after buffs came when progress was done?
arctic hare
Have to purchase some item from the enchanting vendor for 60 aspect crests and y...
I believe its called the nascent aspect's crest
vestal wren
wasnt this only the case after buffs came when progress was done?
i can go back to the simualtions in the sheet
but assassination and sub iirc ended up beeing fairly close in output
the turining point was the buff to assassinaiton later in the season
rare jackal
right
vestal wren
and it kind of made people switch to assa only
the problem is, there wasn't enough time left in the patch to have a very one sided player distribution
past pebble
you can craft 60 of those into enchanted aspect crests through the professions a...
I am not following at all
rare jackal
i think its really cringe how assa got overnerfed again this season
arctic hare
should tell you whatcha need
vestal wren
i think its really cringe how assa got overnerfed again this season
it was the same as in s1
rare jackal
it was the same as in s1
exactly!
past pebble
Have to purchase some item from the enchanting vendor for 60 aspect crests and y...
i have 189 so need to buy 2 im assuming for both dagggers
vestal wren
the dev team did just make the spec too strong in s1 and s3
rare jackal
arguably its worse this season cause of pi
vestal wren
and it did lead to more heavy decisions by the balance team
similar to how outlaw ended up way too strong in both
and got usually nerfed before patch release
gusty mirage
but wait, wasn't assassiantion supposed to b good at sark?
it was good boss damage, useless for the adds
arctic hare
i have 189 so need to buy 2 im assuming for both dagggers
yep
gusty mirage
but obviously nowhere near as good as demo locks with PI and the 50% haste or however much it was
vestal wren
it was good boss damage, useless for the adds
it was a interessting trade off, sub could do a bit of damage on the adds but would just not compete in boss damage
gusty mirage
so no one looked past the demo locks on the meters 
spice surge
Unholy did the same thing as assa, except it did it better
gusty mirage
didn't help that exsanguinate was bugged for 4 months before anyone noticed
vestal wren
ye dk was kinda ... too good
gusty mirage
lol
spice surge
10.2 assa wouldve been great on sark though
gusty mirage
mysterious change in the onyx annulet patch that was nowhere in the patch notes and had zero spell id changes
vestal wren
10.2 assa wouldve been great on sark though
there are statistics on it even
arctic hare
DM'd bleeds just stopped snapshotting the tick rate
God, when we noticed it
rare jackal
10.2 assa wouldve been great on sark though
i blasted on sark when 10.2 hit for aberrus
vestal wren
tho i am not sure how trustworthy this is
rare jackal
oh yeah was that when BM was bugged?
gusty mirage
yea we stopped playing it like a month into aberrus iirc
cause thats when we noticed
a friendly Finn was checking logs and was like "this doesn't make sense guys"
if it wasn't for someone's boredom we would've played exsang all of aberrus and inted our damage
vestal wren
i rly like what they did with the assasination tree
dark token
i rly like what they did with the assasination tree
Except lack of utility/defensives
But yes it's the best tree
vestal wren
i don't care about it as much as you do
dark token
It just lacks defensive talents compared to sub/outlaw
vestal wren
i don't think its good to have oneshots as the limiting factor for keys
dark token
They could absorb some of the DPS nodes together
Like improved poisons or the generic bleed dmg or garrote/rupture dmg
And add 3-4 utility or defensive nodes
violet heron
I'm not the kind of person anymore who's playing to have the best parses or do mythic+ or mythic raid for that matter. Those days are long since over and I'm only playing extremely casual however that doesn't mean I'm entirely okay with my embarrassing warcraft logs haha.
It's pretty bad..
violet heron
I've been to damn lazy to get witherbark or other remaining 2 pcs of gear
gusty mirage
ideally you DM before dancing, cause you don't want to waste a global in dance
but I mean besides that, it doesn't look particularly bad
you're also not getting PI during your CDs
it looks like they're just randomly blasting it on you
which is actually effectively worthless
also kill time's not particularly great
and you really really really really need an on-use
double passive is actually hurting your DPS because you have no control over when pips procs
and you wanna maximize your KB windows
violet heron
Like I said I've been either to busy or to damn lazy to replace Ashes or Band
gusty mirage
but yeah besides that, farming a 483 nicholas of time, even a heroic ashes is solid, and you're kinda chillin gear wise
violet heron
I have a heroic ashes
gusty mirage
oh yeah def use that
there's a KB progress bar Weakaura that shows you the perfect time to pop ashes, or you could just say fuck it and lose like the 0.2% dps and just macro it into kingsbane
I'm inherently lazy, so I preferred the latter
austere sorrel
Do y'all find yourself pausing for like half a GCD ever while in a KB window, so you can apply your 2nd shiv when the first expires? Or should I just use another GCD then shiv after?
dapper moat
question about sin stat distripute. Simming items I know and do when I get new pieces, but is there some sort of a baseline % where to aim with your secondary stats. My crit is about 33% and mastery is 59%. Lacking some haste and vera though. Many thanks. 🙂
runic hinge
question about sin stat distripute. Simming items I know and do when I get new p...
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Mast = Crit = Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs like Witherbark's Branch and Wafting Devotion can often de-value the stat in question. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.
dapper moat
aaand many thanks m8. Should have figured that one out myself.. Many thanks
shy pecan
🙂
gusty mirage
aaand many thanks m8. Should have figured that one out myself.. Many thanks
considering there's no readily available list of commands, the chances of you stumbling upon that yourself are actually quite smol
also shout out to Ed for being a homie
because CERTAIN REGULARS HAVE BEEN DICKHEADS RECENTLY AND I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL SMITE YOU MFERS IF YOU'RE RUDE TO NEWER/RETURNING PLAYERS
spice spire
@ me
arctic hare
because CERTAIN REGULARS HAVE BEEN DICKHEADS RECENTLY AND I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL ...
What about people who've been here for a while
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION
rare jackal
because CERTAIN REGULARS HAVE BEEN DICKHEADS RECENTLY AND I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL ...
based
runic hinge
because CERTAIN REGULARS HAVE BEEN DICKHEADS RECENTLY AND I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL ...
Hey I’m nice. I’m just in here helping with commands. I even looked at a log the other day
rare jackal
there's a KB progress bar Weakaura that shows you the perfect time to pop ashes,...
ashes on kb macro vs ashes on 11 seconds?
gusty mirage
ashes on kb macro vs ashes on 11 seconds?
ye it's a super small optimization
violet heron
I do appreciate the help and insight 🤣 Rogue isn’t my main but I fell in love with it specifically assassination about halfway through BFA when I merely swapped on a whim due to one trinket and thinking “Huh.. that seems like it could potentially be busted in PvP”
runic hinge
ashes on kb macro vs ashes on 11 seconds?
It’s super close after the nerf
gusty mirage
but if you're lazy who cares, chances are rng will make up the difference anyway
rare jackal
well im at a point where i min max small things for assa, so its a thing
runic hinge
Yeah. Critting your last tick or not is more dps lol
dark token
I like to manually use it
rare jackal
playing sub with double active, its not a big deal to pop ashes manually
dark token
Since there are situations in keys where you would kingsbane without using DM even if both are up
And that would cause your ashes to offset from dm
violet heron
As much as I like DM am I the only one who misses Vendetta?
arctic hare
Probably lmao
rare jackal
As much as I like DM am I the only one who misses Vendetta?
nostalgia bait
violet heron
Haha
violet heron
I’ve never bothered myself to play Subtlety after I swapped classes because I loved the identity that sin rogue had but I’m half tempted to try it out
austere sorrel
Do y'all find yourself pausing for like half a GCD ever while in a KB window, so...
Was this question too nuanced to really have a clear answer? :x
runic hinge
I think you would shiv early not hold for a second. Shiv uptime is 8 seconds. Kb is 14. You can cover the whole thing even with some overlap
shy pecan
Was this question too nuanced to really have a clear answer? :x
No. Someone else’s question was getting answered at the same time. You can just apply immediately after since two shivs should cover all of KB if played right.
austere sorrel
Thank you both 🙏
dark token
As much as I like DM am I the only one who misses Vendetta?
DM much better
The only thing I liked about vendetta was 1 minute builds
Back in legion or s3 SL
I don't think they would do that to DM since it has such a high power budget
violet heron
Wafting vs Sophic which is more ideal
gusty mirage
at higher gear levels wafting wins out
desert inlet
I miss vendetta
violet heron
Suppose I’m off to farm for witherbark lol..
royal lantern
I miss vendetta
?
man
DM is the same function
just way better thematicaly and allows more interactions lol
desert inlet
yeah
woeful meteor
100k total dmg dot 
desert inlet
I'd rather it be off global than have a little dot
royal lantern
100k total dmg dot <:smile:913833651551240192>
doesnt matter how much it is, if it does dmg/healing, its on the gcd
if we talk about the total dmg a ability does
assa rupture should not be on the gcd aswell by that logic
"i dont like that my thematic fitting main CD that is a bleed and makes all my dots be duplicated in a dot based spec is on the GCD because it also does dmg, give me POINT AT THE ENEMY AND DO 20% MORE DMG!!!! back" is 1 of the weirdest takes ever
some outlaw brain stuff, ngl
runic hinge
some outlaw brain stuff, ngl
outlaw brain is jumping on people cause you don't agree with them.
She didnt even say she cared about the effect, literallly just the gcd
rare jackal
"i dont like that my thematic fitting main CD that is a bleed and makes all my d...
you ok buddy?
desert inlet
desert inlet
what about it?
gusty mirage
meaning for an entire expac it was on the gcd
royal lantern
She didnt even say she cared about the effect, literallly just the gcd
its just, vendetta was off gcd cus it was a generic amp and nothing else
DM is on the gcd cus its an actuall ability, it does dmg when you use it and does dmg itself
if an ability actually does something by itself like that, its on the gcd, thats how it works
they get played in the same way, DM has the potential for more interesting interactions because it interacts with the general kit more
IF the abilitys would be different in bigger ways i would understand it, ala "assa had something like sblades and got DM" where its actually a bigger change, but it really isnt
gusty mirage
and that was the expac everyone refers to when they say they miss vendetta
because they think it did something
royal lantern
and ye, Vendetta was on the gcd for bfa the entire time
desert inlet
ok I played rogue in shadowlands
royal lantern
because they think it did something <:KEKW:660326255622619146>
it made you do /point at the enemy 
gusty mirage
it made you do /point at the enemy <:peepoguns:585733947732787211>
don't forget the 40 energy
sorry
60 energy
runic hinge
its just, vendetta was off gcd cus it was a generic amp and nothing else
DM is ...
okay but what if DM didnt do 100k damage total in a fight and if it was off gcd? you're just saying "thats how it is, so that's how it is" like things can't possibly ever be different
gusty mirage
ngl adding the CDs to the GCD was cringe as fuck in bfa
and they hard capped the melee gcd to 1s
runic hinge
I know how abilities work, idk why you gotta talk to me like I haven't played this game for 19 years
royal lantern
okay but what if DM didnt do 100k damage total in a fight and if it was off gcd?...
yes, if DM did no dmg it would not be on the GCD lol
and if it was, it would be stupid
runic hinge
If dm had literally the same effect it has now but did no damage itself how would that be stupid?
gusty mirage
then suddenly haste became kinda worthless for almost every melee spec in the game
weird how that worked
royal lantern
If dm had literally the same effect it has now but did no damage itself how woul...
yes cus thats a 2% nerf from lethal dose irrc
runic hinge
Okay but what's stupid about that
royal lantern
somone that is smarter can correct me if its an exception for the talent
runic hinge
You're saying wanting it to do no damage and be off the GCD is stupid as if that isn't just your opinion on what DM should be
royal lantern
are you trying to do a weird "gotcha now huh??" thing there? 
runic hinge
No I'm trying to make you understand you don't need to call other people's opnions stupid if you don't agree
gusty mirage
listen if you two don't stop fighting and kiss rn I'm going to get @spice spire to take you out back and meow at you until you cry
royal lantern
welcome to #assassination
violet heron
It wasn't supposed to be this deep gentlemen
shy pecan
royal lantern
stuff that happens when a spec is fallen out of favor (again, for the 2000th time)
runic hinge
I think you being a hater is a year round thing
runic hinge
Yes
royal lantern
shy pecan
Why would you argue about the coolest rogue ability in the game?
desert inlet
shadowstep?
gusty mirage
Why would you argue about the coolest rogue ability in the game?
that is for sure an opinion
gusty mirage
detection
BASED
SPAMMING DETECTION WHILE WAITING FOR THE TANK TO PULL
1000000000000/10
then getting GCD locked
and getting mad
royal lantern
remember the 1 fight in eternal palace where you could not use the same ability 2times in a row for 20something seconds, and using detection was actually valid
gusty mirage
ye the council fight
you remember in 8.3 before they hotfixed it
you could use detection to build echoing void stacks?
royal lantern
or the first 1-2 weeks of corruptions where they could activate from all abilitys, and using detection could trigger infnite stars/echoing
BfA was BiS time for detection
gusty mirage
and we used to be able to use gliders/parachute in keys
and the seesaw to get past walls, reset bosses to drop the gate
when skipping zul
oh and the flags to navigate boss arenas faster
man bfa was good times
spending my days watching @marble hemlock on tweetch, then tuning into Morning at night 
simpler times
@marble hemlock
marble hemlock
spice spire
listen if you two don't stop fighting and kiss rn I'm going to get <@22650854074...
What the fuck
gusty mirage
What the fuck
royal lantern
@runic hinge keep fighting, i wanna see quake meow
spice spire
That ain’t me
runic hinge
Umm, Slice and dice is good and thematic
royal lantern
you are stinky
gusty mirage
man you really had to dig deep for that one
runic hinge
wish they kept it on a choice node with EP
shy pecan
What the fuck
runic hinge
And we had to hard cast all patch
Mythic plus is fun and a good addition to the game
gusty mirage
lmfao
royal lantern
Mythic plus is fun and a good addition to the game
allright, thats a bit too far now
actual warcrime take
gusty mirage
shy pecan
Trying to press all of Tryan’s buttons today
gusty mirage
endwyr won't share boots
desert inlet
keys fun with group
gusty mirage
she's public enemy no 1 rn
desert inlet
keys stinky without
spice spire
endwyr won't share boots
What I’m saying
runic hinge
KB too rng
spice spire
That’s fair and that I won’t bully
gusty mirage
no shot its worse than 9.0 assassination
spice spire
But mage 
gusty mirage
9.0 assa was doo doo caca
spice spire
no shot its worse than 9.0 assassination
We don’t speak of that
runic hinge
we need 100% 5 second MA
spice spire
40% behind dks and boomies
spice spire
royal lantern
no shot its worse than 9.0 assassination
hardcasting SnD, and because you had legit 0 energy you barely could use envenom, just a endless circle of snd->garrote->rupture->snd->rupture->garrote
and then you did less dmg then 2 tank specs
spice spire
You switched at the right time
spice spire
Oh ok
shy pecan
Buff rogues
hexed matrix
any particular reason it seems like more sins are using ashes instead of witherbark?
gusty mirage
any particular reason it seems like more sins are using ashes instead of witherb...
less thinking
desert inlet
branch annoying if any movement
hexed matrix
that was what i was thinking lol
royal lantern
any particular reason it seems like more sins are using ashes instead of witherb...
only slightly weaker and can just macro
hexed matrix
just checking
royal lantern
- branch is unusable on tindral and really cringe on fyrakk
gusty mirage
plus collecting the 3 balls on a boss like tindral is like trying to do olympic level gymnastics
vs just pressing a button
royal lantern
vs just pressing a button
but my 1,2k sim dps 
runic hinge
but my 1,2k sim dps <:angery:433318454502752258>
branch is good. next fight
gusty mirage
I don't think tryan will disagree with you there
desert inlet
She also said she might go mage
I think the biggest thing keeping me from switching
runic hinge
Damn
royal lantern
since week 2 or 3
desert inlet
is that my body requires food
desert inlet
no but who would watch me play mage
gusty mirage
I would
I support the homies always
okay we're on pace for a 8 minute atal here @marble hemlock
wtf
runic hinge
no but who would watch me play mage
Did you get the kill last night? My internet was being stinky so I went to bedge
desert inlet
ye
runic hinge
YAY
gusty mirage
depends on how long volkaal takes ig
hearty swan
did anyone else find pooling really odd at first? The fingers want to spam always
royal lantern
we barely do it tbh
like, the times where im actually pooling is really really low on most fights overall
runic hinge
I came from feral and you pool for builders and for FB so I guess I'm used to it
gusty mirage
you pool for facebook?
royal lantern
now if poopyblades pooling/energy gameplay would come up, yeha, that shit is cringe
gilded oasis
pools closed
shy pecan
Aunt Zar is here
gusty mirage
grandma zar*
desert inlet
upgrade for sure
shy pecan
Grand-ma-ma
spice spire
actually auntie tho I upgraded (downgraded?) from mom finally
Great aunt Zar
gilded oasis
Im just out here trying to make sure everyone has pasta and cookies and gets home safe
spice spire
Wholesome 
gusty mirage
Im just out here trying to make sure everyone has pasta and cookies and gets hom...
you literally have never given me cookies, pasta, or checked if I arrived home safely
gilded oasis
I hate mdi man
gilded oasis
you literally have never given me cookies, pasta, or checked if I arrived home s...
I only do cookies once a eat and you missed it last year!
royal lantern
vengeance, destro, fire, shadow priest, and ret pally
should give ret and fire again 5-20% buffs on random abilitys tbh
gusty mirage
so true bestie
royal lantern
and nerf some general priest ability
gusty mirage
oxipal is rising
gilded oasis
vengeance, destro, fire, shadow priest, and ret pally
idk why I read that as vegan
royal lantern
make mass dispell 2min cd and a chose 1 node with feathers or smth like that
spice spire
Very balanced
runic hinge
you pool for facebook?
I can't spel feriouscies
gusty mirage
I can't spel feriouscies
its okay I still love you and stuart
runic hinge
He's still asleep But I'll get you one once he wakes up
royal lantern
gilded oasis
sneak up on him
runic hinge
Impossible
royal lantern
gilded oasis
irl footage of me sneaking up on my cats
gusty mirage
He's still asleep But I'll get you one once he wakes up
WOOOOOOOOOOO
gilded oasis
and they're just staring at me the whole time
runic hinge
I do have a vid from thursday after work but there's water running in the background so I didn't share
royal lantern
and they're just staring at me the whole time
"what a idiot lol"
gilded oasis
"what a idiot lol"
fr
gilded oasis
I do have a vid from thursday after work but there's water running in the backgr...
we love water here
gusty mirage
with no healer
ngl with the offhealing capabilities & utility of ret + vampiric
they're prolly fine
lmao
plus warlock doesn't need any healing
they're as tanky as vengeance dh
royal lantern
mage also has 1 or 2 full hp heals at this point
dark token
with no healer
I hope this causes blizz to nerf some defensives/offheals for the casters 
They did it last time no heal keys were popular iirc
It's cool to see rn tho
I like everbloom in particular cause it has a lot of routing and strategy possibilities with all the skips u can do
dark token
should give ret and fire again 5-20% buffs on random abilitys tbh
Ye mage has too low DPS, it's bottom in echo keys
runic hinge
Ye mage has too low DPS, it's bottom in echo keys
My buddy is in discord rn complaining about mage dps
And how its low
dark token
next level, complaining about mages in mdi doing bad
It's a meme if you couldn't tell
Oh you were talking about his buddy
vestal wren
time to bring assassination
dark token
They buff the other 2 people + lust + single target dmg that free cleaves
All these keys are tyrannical right
runic hinge
Yeah
dark token
Killing bosses fast is a big deal
runic hinge
I mean I understand
dark token
time to bring assassination
Maybe if it was unnerfed from the start
But nah still not brought because it doesn't have arcane intellect + lust
- it can't live without healer
royal lantern
Ye mage has too low DPS, it's bottom in echo keys
you cracked the code
you unlocked wowhead comment logic
how did you do it
dark token
They did sin dirty in keys this season
It's the most fun iteration/ the best DPS profile/design
But it's still not enough cause it can't live and they nerfed the dmg so it doesn't compete anymore
They really should think about keys when they do raid nerfs/buffs
They very rarely do
royal lantern
you know something is weird in m+ rn when a frking rogue spec is "too squishy for high keys"
dark token
I mean I think rogue is actually very squishy baseline because of the low stamina template, but it's good with active defensives
Especially cause most 1shot mechanics used to be aoe
There was only 1-3 mechanics a season that weren't in most seasons
Now it's like 10
And yeah they put 0 defensives in sin tree and 4 in outlaw/sub
proven jasper
proven jasper
Combination of the ramp times plus like 0 survivability compared to sub/law
dark token
They only nerf stuff that's op in lower keys and they don't buff underperforming specs that aren't brought to 30s
You can see it from the outlaw nerf in s1
vestal wren
you wouldn't count a 2nd non lethal poison, higher poison efficiency and leech as defensive value?
dark token
you wouldn't count a 2nd non lethal poison, higher poison efficiency and leech a...
No
Higher poison Dr is .6% dr
vestal wren
alright
dark token
Crippling poison doesn't count because it actively ints you on several dungeons and affixes, but ur forced to take it
proven jasper
The issue with leech is why does it matter when all mechanics nearly one shot you past 23s
dark token
Leech doesn't count because we can't survive 1shots, and it's not that high anyway because we have low DPS outside of cds
proven jasper
Meanwhile outlaw is out here with evasion for over half the dungeon
dark token
It's not anywhere close to 10% Dr with 50% uptime (sub talent) + 10% shield that leaches when ur low
Let's not even talk about outlaw
proven jasper
royal lantern
It's annoying they only balance keys for +20s
tbf, what else should they do there
balancing for how much higher when nobody really does keys above 20 anyway?
and the people that do are mostly FotM players anyway that dont care much what they pla yin the first place
dark token
They want m+ to be a third pillar of the game
Like pvp
Or raid
They aren't treating it like that
proven jasper
Now that i think about it, does assa even have a single defensive talent in the spec tree?
royal lantern
The issue with leech is why does it matter when all mechanics nearly one shot yo...
leech is just a meme stat for dps
dark token
They nerf stuff in pvp if it's op for 3k brackets
proven jasper
leech is just a meme stat for dps
Truth
dark token
Now that i think about it, does assa even have a single defensive talent in the ...
No that's my point
royal lantern
Now that i think about it, does assa even have a single defensive talent in the ...
assa spec tree is all offensive stuff only with the exception for iron wire
dark token
Yeah they fucked it
proven jasper
yeah bigtime
dark token
Look at the first gate of sin vs outlaw
proven jasper
i literally had not noticed that till now
dark token
Same
Don't get me wrong the pathing and talent choice is goated in sin tree
It's the best tree pathing wise
proven jasper
Yeah no doubt
but i literally never realized theres not even a single defensive talent
dark token
Ye
proven jasper
thats fucked
dark token
It's bad
royal lantern
eh, just combine some talents or replace them with a bit more utility/deffensive things
like, 1 of the 2000 "you do more poison dmg" talents, or doomblade, or sepsis/cringespike, or sanguine blades
proven jasper
eh, just combine some talents or replace them with a bit more utility/deffensive...
100%
royal lantern
just replace them with a deffensive talent
dark token
Ye like improved poisons should be bundled into the fatal concotions
Rupture dmg should combo with garrote
proven jasper
Definitely lmao
dark token
Etc
royal lantern
there are enough generic "you do X% more dmg" talents that allow it
dark token
Right where improved poisons is you could put a cool defensive
Will give this feedback whenever they actively dev rogue again which I guess is TWW
dark token
But I worry they ignore base talents to focus on hero talents
Sin/sub tree kinda have opposite problems lol
One tree ur forced to route through utility or defensive to get to ur good DPS nodes when you don't really want it
The other tree has good routing but no utility or defensive
royal lantern
sub tree has like, 20 problems tbh 
dark token
I mean legion didn't have io score so no one pushed except MDI I think
Not that I recall
vestal wren
i rather have them fix dungeons
dark token
But I stopped after 7.2
vestal wren
to fix the problem with oneshots
royal lantern
"trash does nothing really, bosses also do nothing overall but 50% have a unavoidable party dmg mechanic that just 1shots at +24 allready, have fun"
is dungeons rn
litearlly legion dungeons
vestal wren
tbh i did like m+ in legion
dark token
Would you rather get something like Ruby life pools
royal lantern
just nobody really cared
vestal wren
i remember ww was fucking op
royal lantern
m+ as a "major focus" came with ~BfA tbh
vestal wren
but needed to switch to defensive legos mid key
dark token
Ye
royal lantern
7.1
dark token
Didn't they add vault in bfa
royal lantern
Didn't they add vault in bfa
SL
proven jasper
Think so
dark token
Legion had like a weekly cache?
proven jasper
Or sl YE
vestal wren
Legion had like a weekly cache?
nope
dark token
I remember farming some cache weekly for my legendary
Because it was the only thing that actually had legendary drop chance
In the whole game
For like 4 patches
royal lantern
8.1 and m+ becoming a big focus is also the reason why outlaw became the "popular" rogue spec tbh
Like, pre 8.1, outlaw was regarded as a total meme, then we had 8.1 and outlaw was REALLY fucking broken for it for a long time + people started the r.io craze
and yeha
vestal wren
BfA gave vault
SL improved it
TWW will make it even better, because you can get hero loot from casual content
dark token
BFA vault sucked because pvp vault was op
You had to do it for more azerite armor chance
Same with SL s1
vestal wren
they had the cache in legion
oh wait
gusty mirage
grand challenger's bounty
vestal wren
was it only m+ lot or?
dark token
Ye I remember legion had some cache box
gusty mirage
only m+
vestal wren
how did it work
dark token
And I remember I needed to do a weekly 15
royal lantern
azerite armor
gusty mirage
you'd get the dust
royal lantern
no raid stuff
gusty mirage
to gamba/buy azerite armor
gusty mirage
titan residuum iirc
royal lantern
ye, legion/bfa was just "Open chest and hope its the 1 item out of the 120 you actually want"
SL was vault
gusty mirage
ye, legion/bfa was just "Open chest and hope its the 1 item out of the 120 you a...
loved getting mydas in bfa
10/10 system
dark token
Ye the BFA vault sucked
It made me quit in one patch
That + rogue being meh for most of expac in raids
And first raid being one of the most melee unfriendly ever
royal lantern
every single raid was warlock and spriest #1 with mage
gusty mirage
I'll always remember needing 20k residuum to buy a specific piece
gusty mirage
and you'd get like 1k in season 1 for a 20
royal lantern
no buffs
gusty mirage
lmao
royal lantern
Class buffs are cringe af
if it would atleast be class buffs
dark token
I'll always remember needing 20k residuum to buy a specific piece
Ye this was so cringe
dark token
Ele would be good if they had it
It's always sleeper imo
They have good utility and offhealls
vestal wren
loved getting mydas in bfa
think everyone had their mydas collection
royal lantern
problem is that enh brings the shaman buff and is 1 of the best melee dps for the last couple tiers now
so shaman is = enh
same problem priest healers have
where disc has all the actually strong and important stuff
and holy just heals
instead of, you know, make the important stuff avaible for both
gusty mirage
Ye this was so cringe
you needed 2 or 3 weeks of world first keys to get enough residuum to buy something outright
or 6-7 weeks of just 15s
cool system
JUST GRIND FOR 2 MONTHS FOR A SPECIFIC PIECE BRO
dark token
and holy just heals
Holy should be a healer aug
Just shit ton of cool utility and buffing others
Make all the cringe pi stuff there
Make shadow and disc spriest personal only
royal lantern
Holy should be a healer aug
shut up shut up shut up shit up
dont create more mistakes
you dont work for blizzard 
and holy gameplay>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>disc gameplay, fuck disc
proven jasper
plucky thistle
How does he get 5 CP from SHIV>SD>KB? or that tracker dont showing something?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feLP-wbWAl4&t=211s
gusty mirage
How does he get 5 CP from SHIV>SD>KB? or that tracker dont showing something?ht...
arterial precision and crits on the shiv
plucky thistle
arterial precision and crits on the shiv
Thanks
ripe carbon
is there any good addons to replace default nameplate debuffs?
like for rupture/garrote, so it only shows them and doesnt show poisons etc
spice surge
Plater is a very commonly used one
Theres some decent profiles from certain people here too if you'd like that has that kind of thing configured
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
ripe carbon
oh i c ty
verbal tusk
https://gyazo.com/972c3bcc545eb31bab61cd90deee3abe is this ok for a level 7 mythic? first time in mythics.. i dont really do pve .. did i do ok?
gilded oasis
verbal tusk
I know it was a low level dungeon so i wasnt gonna gauge based on that. I'm sure others are still working on gear
never bothered trying to do mythics before.. figured the elitism would keep me from being accepted into them 😦
balmy condor
yeh I mean it's m+, and a low one at that
it's insanely volatile
you got different tanks, different routes, sometimes you get an aug, or a priest, your cooldowns line up nicer with the packs
sometimes you get to ramp, sometimes you don't
maybe your group wiped, now all the timing is shot
it's really difficult to nail down what "good" means
as long as you timed the key and kept up with the rest of the dps it's fine
verbal tusk
i'm not sure i understand the loot system in mythics either. lol.. am i pretty much just running mythics for vault prayer on tuesday?
gilded oasis
its random who gets loot from the chest and you get an extra piece if you time it (or thats only for higher keys? idk). And then also vault rng on Tues yeah
verbal tusk
i know i need to iron and smooth out my rotation a bit but is this what you expect to see in a mythic https://gyazo.com/46fcb9ce29e07ac9bc95f3ca1a25e56d as far as top spells being used/damage being done
also don't understand how kingsbane hit for 2mil
gilded oasis
sure. crimson tempest maybe should be higher? I havent actually played CT in a while so whispyr probably knows
verbal tusk
was on a boss.. so maybe he had a mechanic where he took more damage during a phase or something
yeah.. my spec is probably all wonky tbh. Its my pvp cleave build
gilded oasis
KB is a ramping ability. read the tool tip. You apply it to a target and it ticks every 2 (?) seconds. every time you apply a lethal poison it increases KB damage. so it goes up when you also hit your target, doubled if that target also has DM on it. The last tick of KB is massive and 2mil isn't that unusual
I think caustic is taken instead of internal bleeding but I actually dont know if you're going full bleed you might take internal bleeding
balmy condor
yeah definitely should get caustic
ct seems low
but like
it's a 7
so things probably dying before you're able to press ct to begin with
gilded oasis
I know at some point there was a degen bleed spec with IB but idk if that made it anywhere lmao
balmy condor
that was exactly 1 guy
earnest remnant
gilded oasis
okay well
balmy condor
it's always worth to pick up 4 piece
its your most powerful piece of gear in any given season
would be insane not to
verbal tusk
i see. my thinking is still stuck in "mastery over everything" but given the bonuses I can see that.
balmy condor
💀
is pvp really that deranged
there's no shot right
even in pvp you're gonna DR yourself at some point surely
even with crit and vers being meh
verbal tusk
assass pvp is multi bleed every red nameplate you can see and wait for the opportunity to cc chain the healer and dm dance kingsbane shiv the kill target
the mastery i assume is to make those multi bleeds apply as much pressure as possible
balmy condor
I mean I know how it works
but there is actually 0 way that full stacking mastery over everything in the game including tier and item level and whatever else
I can't believe it
verbal tusk
but yes.. BIS is stacking mastery
hellbloom gear over conquest if hellbloom is a mastery piece and conquest isnt
crafted over conquest if conquest isnt mastery
verbal tusk
etc and so forth
although i pretty much made myself a clone of shade.. he follows that for the most part
verbal tusk
i have 71 percent mast outside of pvp combat
verbal tusk
30 percent versa over mastery.. after that.. mastery
balmy condor
sure, whatever funny number vers breakpoint
but the guide is what I thought was going on
you were telling me mastery over tier and item level
and bloom gear over pvp gear
that's what got me lost
but yeh
gotta replace the pvp stuff
hellbloom as a set is pretty useless in pve
past forum
I think sin doesn’t do 4set in pvp cause you don’t envenom chain like ever
balmy condor
correct
past forum
But yeah the mastery stacking cook is burnt
The sepulcher tierset in pvp tho sheeeeeesh
balmy condor
The sepulcher tierset in pvp tho *sheeeeeesh*
pvp cumming themselves every time there's an ability that condenses burst
having to ban pvp one tricks that would scream at realz in here when they saw exsang was gone
💀
turn a discord chat into a cod lobby bruh
past forum
Should be an entirely different discord
I was scared of speaking in RH at first cause of how pvp rogues be acting
balmy condor
idk if there's enough players to make a different discord
but even then it's basically just sucking off whatever streamer they fuck with
would assume pvp streamer discord be going crazy
spice spire
turn a discord chat into a cod lobby bruh
💀
verbal tusk
i mean.. we kinda say the same thing about you guys tbf.. lol elitist min maxing.. if you arent running 28 mythic, you arent just bad at wow, you're subhuman.. kinda the vibe you guys give
balmy condor
I've never run a 28 in my life
the people you're describing are animals all on their own
verbal tusk
and i've never cum in my pants over a streamer spouting the latest 1 shot 🙂 generalizations are silly
verbal tusk
and i said pve not whispyrboo 🙂
in all fairness. you specifically do not have the elitist dick head reputation
balmy condor
and i said pve not whispyrboo 🙂
💀
but yeh dunno
there's apes on both ends of the spectrum
normal people be in the middle
but the m+ers that run 20 hours of keys a day
verbal tusk
you guys > the assassination rogue pve discord has a reputation across wow for elitism and toxicity mate
balmy condor
you guys > the assassination rogue pve discord has a reputation across wow for e...
huhhhhhhhhhhhh
out of all the places we're known across wow for elitism?
shy pecan
lol
past forum
This spec specifically is one of the most friendly and welcoming communities I’ve encountered
balmy condor
I could name like a dozen servers that are way more toxic, let alone channels
runic hinge
Lmao I'm here too much because the people are nice
balmy condor
we're out here cracking jokes and talking about shower oranges half the time
putting mayo on grilled cheese
runic hinge
hi-chew
balmy condor
rest of the server calls us offtopic 2
shy pecan
putting mayo on grilled cheese
Weirdos.
past forum
Posting cat pics and making bromantic remarks all day
shy pecan
Is it really being toxic though if you're just stating facts?
balmy condor
I mean
depends how I word it
there's ways to say facts that are rude
like saying your moms a fat slag
spice spire
cause I bust peoples balls
You make me bust it that’s what u mean
balmy condor
runic hinge
Fuck I ran a gem sim earlier and shut off my pc without looking at it
wasted computations 
shy pecan
I mean, if you have an account, should've saved it?
I don't think it matters if it's free or paid
shy pecan
Yee
runic hinge
Holy shit I didnt know you could do that
shy pecan
runic hinge
1k dps if I change all my gems
past forum
I went to do a gem sim and then instead decided to just send it down mid with vers gems cause idgaf
balmy condor
the last time I ran a gem sim it told me crit vers, vers mast, vers haste, and haste crit
were all within margin
runic hinge
Haste vers is now 1k dps, but If I sim ashes instead i bet not changing from mastery vers is better
balmy condor
probably
I just did one sim at the start of tindral when I swapped to sub and then one sim at the start of fyrakk when I swapped back to sin
and called it a day
ain't shit in my vault anyway
runic hinge
Hmm, a haste verse crafted neck with mastery/vers gems is 600 dps, that definitely seems worth 8k gold
balmy condor
whats your prog lookin like tony
runic hinge
I don't mythic raid
runic hinge
That's very nice of you to say
Tbh i love my guild but I when we kill fyrakk in 7 pulls I'm like maybe we can do some more guys, and half of them log out for the season that day
runic hinge
It's nice because there's no pressure but this guild does feel a bit too good for how easy heroic has been
balmy condor
just feels like heroic to mythic is such a big jump for a lot of guilds
and in a lot of cases if you don't have 20 people it's just not worth attempting
and if you have more than 20 people now you have to exclude people
and it gets weird
pretty toxic for a lot of more casual guilds
runic hinge
Yeah, and my work schedule is super bad for finding a guild unless I wanted to raid weekends and I don't want to commit both my weekend days to raiding
balmy condor
yeah that sounds miserable
past forum
Cross realm guild/mythic off the jump is gonna be a game changer next xpac
My guild loses like 5+ people to roster boss regularly so we essentially had to stop mythic prog altogether until hof closed
glacial shuttle
Is it possible to get a Kingsbane out and rolling for every Treants set on M Larry?
runic hinge
Yeah I'm hoping to kill some bosses soon, at least the first few
balmy condor
Is it possible to get a Kingsbane out and rolling for every Treants set on M Lar...
no
balmy condor
on pull and then every 1:45ish
you just slam everything on cooldown
and it lines up on first and third set
and it's good enough
I saved teas for the second set and just envenom spammed
spice spire
<a:HUHH:1170286990005108766>
Problem?
balmy condor
Problem?
what if george actually needs glasses but you don't know
ever think about that
balmy condor
learned from his dad
past forum
So for smold we send on cd because holding cds for amp would not make up for losing a use? Or something like that?
balmy condor
yesn't
holding cds for amp makes up losing the use exactly
you don't gain or lose anything technically by holding
but the uptimes during 2nd and 4th intermission are pretty janky
and unless you have like double aug simps playing around intermission with ebon might and shit
won't be worth
if you have double aug simps
and they're playing around intermissions
then maybe worth
past forum
We have 0 aug atm
balmy condor
but still bit questionable
yeh then def not
you lose too much uptime on the garbage intermissions to justify it
past forum
Makes sense
Also trying to kite branch orbs while picking up smolderon orbs sounds cringe
balmy condor
not that bad tbh
you pop the branch slightly before
so you pick up the first 2
and then as you run around and pick up smold orbs, the third will float towards you
and when you run back to smold where you originally popped the branch
it's basically impossible to not run through the third branch orb on your way
or could just play ashes if you have it
past forum
Just got it tonight
balmy condor
nice
past forum
Wanted it in the back pocket if we got to later bosses and i had branch trouble. Haven’t had issue on the rest of the raid tho
ripe carbon
im getting depressed over branch not dropping ive done 50+ runs
well 38 runs on raider.io
earnest remnant
have to do 39 in order for it to drop, sry
ripe carbon
i go to bed hopeless thinking to myself 'itll never drop'
ripe carbon
i havent done any raiding this expac yet, i only just returned like 2 weeks ago after quitting in legion
harsh harbor
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
plucky thistle
vs What is point of FoK i thought it work same as SS i just notice when doing 6 targets and get 2/3 CP from FoK its useless
Or just low crit?
I have 41%
ebon notch
vs What is point of FoK i thought it work same as SS i just notice when doing 6 ...
That’s just how it is
static glacier
vs What is point of FoK i thought it work same as SS i just notice when doing 6 ...
Comparing CP economy vs specs isn’t the play
Consider poison damage / sub goes out of energy in AoE while sin can have limitless energy generation
balmy condor
Also just seal fate
Is a core mechanic to the spec
So it would be silly for fok to work like storm
rustic minnow
can we cloak the debuff off from tindral seeds and soak 2?
rotund oak
So it would be silly for fok to work like storm
irrelevant but ive cooked peppers stuffed with minced meat and rice and some potatoes in the oven
feta cheese
and cold beer
./vanish
balmy condor
Okay
dark token
So it would be silly for fok to work like storm
sub had that last season
it was pretty good
storm + seal fate
no reason sin's couldnt
not like sin is crazy op in aoe right
would be a decent buff for low-mid target count cleave
royal lantern
yeha but there is the "last season" part
it doesnt now
and removing that was actually a bigger hit to subs low target aoe
balmy condor
and removing that was actually a bigger hit to subs low target aoe
What is “that”
quiet oar
royal lantern
What is “that”
yeha
thats the problem
low target aoe mattering is....not really common 
balmy condor
Bro I just wanna know what we’re talking about
You can’t answer “what are you talking about” with “yeha”
royal lantern
when sovi said "sub had weebstorm+sealfate last season, so why cant assa have it now"
and i said "yeha, it had that LAST SEASON, not now"
balmy condor
Aha
Well seal fate got removed exactly because of it being silly for the cp economy and homogenizing the specs
The entire point of it not being on the tree was to make storm and fok different 
royal lantern
and because it was generaly a bit stupid, assa overall is clearly desinged around seal fate as a baseline
sub/outlaw are not
for them it was just a giga gain
balmy condor
Yeah
I mean it was a cool idea on paper with all 3 specs giving something up for the class tree
Outlaw just didn’t provide anything of value and sub/assa lost a core foundational part that the other 2 specs abused
It is what it is
At some point they’ll get dance off the tree as well
And we’ll go back to normal
royal lantern
At some point they’ll get dance off the tree as well
i hope so cus dance is kinda stupid, but at the same time
DeAtHsTaLkEr just SCREAMS "stealth benefits xddd" for me
royal lantern
by itself sure, with dance it just makes dance even more a mandatory talent which feels kinda bad tbh
balmy condor
Dance on the class tree is in no way required to make a stealth benefit hero spec
royal lantern
but hey, gotta stay positive for the hero trees
1 out of 8 was good
just gotta highroll for them
rotund oak
i personally think that dance is too powerful a skill in general to have it on all 3 specs
u tap into so much utility/dmg by pressing 1 button
i would never personally allow it outside sub
royal lantern
eh, imo its just that its supposed to be THE sub thing
rotund oak
but im too old ig
royal lantern
not even about dmg
rotund oak
its just too powerful man,like ik who cares about pvp and stuff
royal lantern
dmg wise its just either boring as hell (like it is for assa where dance is really just "macro with kingsbane, press garrote once and then forget that it exists") or extremely gameplay warping (outlaw)
rotund oak
but check what sin rogues do now
they que shuffles dance and bleed everything out
its crazy how storng dance is
or outlaw triple cs
its completely ridiculous
royal lantern
they que shuffles dance and bleed everything out
huh
royal lantern
i mean sure, for the 2 people that care about pvp thats probably really important
rotund oak
its what sin does in dungeons pretty much
but for pvp
runs in,silence/stun and full bleeds or everyhting
x3 the dmg of everyone else
and almost unhealable
lul
balmy condor
Minigame mode
rotund oak
yup
royal lantern
i think its more problematic that unborn valkyr for petbattles is a #1 pick since forever then some PvP related things happening
rotund oak
yo unborn valkyr is busted
balmy condor
i think its more problematic that unborn valkyr for petbattles is a #1 pick sinc...
I haven’t checked but have there been less arena/bg maps compared to pet battle dungeons in the last 3 years
I think it’s close
royal lantern
pet battles are suprisingly deep man
royal lantern
just sucks that the pvp queue for pet battles is dead
if it would be active, actually a cool side activity when you have 10-20min downtime
balmy condor
Yeah but the overlap of people collecting pets that are also interested in pvping pet battles is probably tiny
Just different crowds
keen mantle
Does Shiv aoe soothe this week?
balmy condor
!affix
prisma monolithBOT
Affixes: Tyrannical, Storming, Raging
royal lantern
shiv aoe soothes when you skill the aoe soothe
sweet dawn
!dagger
prisma monolithBOT
harsh harbor
Long time outlaw player looking to give Sin a try. Any tips/advice?
royal lantern
dont be suprised that there is a yellow bar called "energy" for your spec suddenly showing up that contains the resource you need to use abilitys