assassination

[bleak plume]

😬

[royal lantern]

the pic on phone

ye

[bleak plume]

Perfectly balanced I guess

[bright cipher]

you see, Assassination at the time was performing high with PI, in a patch that blizzard also decided to take care of PI and the performance it gave to the previous 2 highest users (one still beging the highest user) .

so, maybe that made Assa Rogue an Easier, more Urgent Target

[bright cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/conspiracy-conspiracy-time-tin-foil-hat-gif-20017112

but thats very of my part

[runic hinge]

Looking at such a small subsection of players doesn’t tell the whole story of balance

Top 5% of mythic raiders is such a small portion of the player base I don’t know why wowhead uses that chart to rile people up. Just gotta be clickbait related

[royal lantern]

the overall problem is less "assa weak wtf"

its really just "sub with dust is op, dust has a high chance go make dust op in the future aswell cus it gives the spec a near perfect burst window gameplay"

like, cool, outlaw bar high

outlaw still is kinda mid in raids

nobody says outlaw is better then assa in raids

[bright cipher]

honestly, they should swap to all parses and teach people how to look at box-and-whisker plots

[royal lantern]

• kill timers got worse for assa over time

which always makes a spec look "bad"

[bright cipher]

that Article is very much for the clicks, its an easy article to make who atracts a lot of clicks. i doubt there is an objective of being educative.

but the reason is, historically the playerbase have been dismissive of anything that isn't 95~99 statistics.

[quiet oar]

I mean it does make sense

To see real performance

You wont get a good performance showing in the 60s parse region

[bright cipher]

so if they one day show up a all parses and don't take the time to explain "hey, all parses actually show the performance from top end too as its a box-and-whisker plot" people will reply negatively

[royal lantern]

i mean

[quiet oar]

Well

[royal lantern]

the sub craze rn probably hurts more rogue players then it actually helps

[quiet oar]

real performance

rn

is just pad

[royal lantern]

cus they would perform better just playing assa/outlaw if they like it more

[quiet oar]

IDk

Just use KazeMRT

[runic hinge]

Sure but it’s also not showing the fact that some of those specs could just have one tenth the amount of parses.

Or less

[quiet oar]

Contrary what many say, i dont think sub is that hard

if oyu understand how CDR works

[royal lantern]

its a wow spec, ofc its not that hard

encounters are hard

class gameplay is not really

you can learn all classes/specs on a decent level in 1-2 weeks if you put in some effort

[bright cipher]

I hope if blizzard uses statistics of raid for tunning, they don't look exclusively around https://i.imgur.com/LIDzbNs.png this part of the plot

That part is important yeah, but so is this https://i.imgur.com/F21sAso.png

you could even say that specs who have too big of a deviation between median and and minimun might be motivated due to some deeper issue that goes beyond "the playerbase of spec X is mostly bad".

[royal lantern]

blizzard doesnt look only at a 3rd Party website for balancing

they have their own numbers

[bright cipher]

but also, statistics of warcraftlogs have the issue that some specs don't even have enough parses on like mythic tindral to show up https://i.imgur.com/T6Y6K0P.png on all fights

[quiet oar]

Blizzard getting baited by aug amplified numbers

[bright cipher]

and that affects how they show up in that

[quiet oar]

[clever sapphire]

assuming their numbers also cant use aug hooks properly

[runic hinge]

I wish we had an idea about what their numbers look like

[bright cipher]

i didn't want to say they only use logs, i mean if they use it, i hope its more than just a quick glance at 95th all fights.

[royal lantern]

most balance decisions are not done for the top 0,5% of the playerbase on mythic raiding and in +28keys

[clever sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/nouns-nounish-nounsdao-abacus-counting-gif-16562575250327679873

[bright cipher]

and thats good

[clever sapphire]

this is the reason why aug exists, change my mind

cause every casual player probably loves aug

[royal lantern]

aug exists cus blizzard did the giant mistake of listening to a very very very loud minority

most "casuals" see it, think "cool i gues" and then continue doing worldquests on their paladin/hunter/warrior

[runic hinge]

People want a support class. Now it’s broken and stupid and I hate that people wanted it

[clever sapphire]

its not really broken anymore imo

[quiet oar]

because its easy to say

You cant judge my performance on details

[clever sapphire]

but i also never take an aug into a key unless i know i can solo dps

[quiet oar]

BUT FUCKING LOGS CAN

Like casual augs

have 30% ebon might uptime

and press Breath of Eons

when nobody uses CD

[clever sapphire]

i love seeing augs fly when mobs are at 15% hp and everyone is just using their most basic abilities

[quiet oar]

and these casual

think they are good

because details is a lie

but do not check logs

to realize they are fucking useless

[clever sapphire]

if i were aug, i would turn off details, get an ebon might tracker and thats it

[quiet oar]

Need to track CDs

[clever sapphire]

details wont tell me if im good

[agile geode]

this exp sin is cursed

[clever sapphire]

ye thats the reason why i dont play aug, i hate tracking CDs of other people

[quiet oar]

Fuck aug

[agile geode]

im happy how the spec is atm, but always a bit underperforming compared to sub

[quiet oar]

Delete this mistake spec

[quiet oar]

Thats both Rogue specs like forever

Sub is always the raid spec

[agile geode]

ye since DF

[quiet oar]

SL too

[agile geode]

nop

[quiet oar]

S2

and S3

[agile geode]

s2 sin was slapping

was balanced

[quiet oar]

Not as much as Sub

[agile geode]

to sub

[quiet oar]

Because dagger

[agile geode]

i remember well and it was

[quiet oar]

Were OP

[agile geode]

sylvanas was an assassination fight

[quiet oar]

[agile geode]

it was

[quiet oar]

Well

Can be

[royal lantern]

?

huh

[quiet oar]

Prepare for a tryan rant

[royal lantern]

like, sanctum was sub aswell

it just didnt matter cus dagger made all 3 specs OP, IF YOU DROPPED IT

[quiet oar]

[agile geode]

yes if you dropped it

i dropped it last week of tier on mythic

last week of raid

[clever sapphire]

instead if "tryan rant", i read "tyrant"

my brain is skipping letters

[royal lantern]

i always need to double read when somebody says tyran week

[quiet oar]

Ye Tryan is a WL pet

bound to his local WL

How far is your new guild on Fyrakk tryan

[royal lantern]

intermission

[quiet oar]

Nice

and no tryharding 6 days raidweek

like your last guild

Its an International guild again right?

[rigid tartan]

I’ve read your responses guys. For me it comes down to this: I don’t enjoy sub or outlaw gameplay as much as assa for reasons and thus I don’t like assa being weaker than sub when they could have atleast kept it toe to toe on st with sub. Annoying that it’s the best by far at raid launch only to be cringe pick later in the season. And yeah I’m not talking about heroic balance, I’m talking about optimal choice and minmax

[haughty flicker]

Sometimes it be like that

[balmy condor]

Optimal choice and min max is pretty cringe though cause they don’t balance for that

You’ll always be disappointed if that’s the metric

[haughty flicker]

I’m always disappointed anyway

[balmy condor]

Rule 1 of game balance basically is just “don’t balance around your best players”

Cause now you’re wrecking balance for pretty much everyone else

It’s also why they generally don’t tune around difficulty

[haughty flicker]

This is why transmog is the true endgame

The only disappointment there is yourself

[balmy condor]

Yeh I mean collecting

Is kinda the end game

[haughty flicker]

Account wide achievements and transmog collecting will keep me playing tww for a long time even if the expansion is ass

Because the true endgame got better

[rigid tartan]

Like I know I can hardly reach the absolute best and perfect performance but I still try to get there with some effort according to what I can invest time and energy wise

And the difference between sub and assa single target is way too big in my view right now.

[royal lantern]

i mean, yeha it is, and its confusing how sub is getting 0 hits at all

but at the same time

[haughty flicker]

It do still be like that sometimes

C’est la vie

[royal lantern]

i dont speak french

[haughty flicker]

Neither do I

I barely speak English

[grim tree]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quiet oar]

Rule 2 dont be a otp and expect peak Performance every content

[clever sapphire]

So you dont speak outlaw

[quiet oar]

Thats also a big Thing

[royal lantern]

said it multiple times allready

un-fuck outlaw and sub, and i 100% play them again

[vestal wren]

the current subtlety iteration is quite nice tho

subtlety had a lot of worse ones

assassiantion is the only spec that had a very strong core design and as a consequenc was more "similar"

[clever sapphire]

gimme bonespike outlaw back

[plain moon]

I mean when it comes to damage tuning specs I don’t know how much of that comes down to tuning for the 1% or not

Like of course there will always be outliers but for the most part the all bosses wcl page stays close enough when you bounce around sorting by 95th percentile or 60th percentile

The big jump for sin specifically is swapping from mythic to heroic but that’s more so benefiting from heroic kill times I imagine

[royal lantern]

remove dust and its fine

[vestal wren]

removing dust makes sin and sub very much the same

[royal lantern]

thats a sacrifice im willing to make

[grim jay]

I honestly like dust in more ways than I dislike it

[clever sapphire]

i like dust so much, i dont touch it besides in raid

[royal lantern]

do you touch yourself?

answer carefull

[clever sapphire]

rn? nope

nvm, my eye was itching

[royal lantern]

[clever sapphire]

had to touch it

[royal lantern]

dont fall into sinfull temptations

[clever sapphire]

but

assasSIN

how do i not

i have been in smolderon/tindral sub rogue prison for so long, im starting to forget how to assa

[glacial crypt]

you pop up in my dms so much because a friend I raid with has the same name

was halfway through typing "KEYS???" when I realised it's you

[limber lion]

Yup same based

Good thing that Assa is bad and I'm washed so my services are not as needed

[brazen zodiac]

<3

[spice spire]

Real

[quiet oar]

Quake still gets log reviews

From time to time

[spice spire]

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/send-the-logs-send-the-log-files-gif-7419926888397076395

[quiet oar]

[frigid pilot]

This channel still alive?

[quiet oar]

No

Blizzard killed it

let it rest in peace

[sick smelt]

wait is assassination really that bad now lmao, just coming back after a few months

[clever sapphire]

Nope

Its just sub too good in raid

And outlaw in m+

[vestal wren]

just wait for mdi

and count the amount of rogues you see

[clever sapphire]

0

I can already tell

Priest/mage and maybe boomie

Maybe dk?

Dunno

[vestal wren]

i have no idea, but ret might be a very good alternative to rogue overall after the latest round of buffs

[clever sapphire]

Mage/priest is probably a safe bet

Last one is probably gonna be some insane aoe dmg spec

Tank dh is also a safe bet

Heal is gonna be druid for the vers buff i assume

So 3rd dps is the only spot i have no idea about

[vital haven]

veng priest heal, mage boomie aug

[quiet oar]

No Druid heal?

Well

[clever sapphire]

He just replaced druid heal and priest dps

[quiet oar]

Or just 4 dps and 1 tank

[spice surge]

Pretty much all of them in mdi are playing fire/destro/shadow

both druid and mw healers, sometimes no healer and then its retri or aug instead

[quiet oar]

Ah yeah destro

true

[spice surge]

Boomie not great in mdi setting

[quiet oar]

I mean

[spice surge]

Because they dont do great singletarget while doing aoe

[clever sapphire]

I forgot destro ye

[quiet oar]

I hope we see experiments

This weekend

[clever sapphire]

Forgotten epxeriments?

[eternal nymph]

Pretty sure there are Aberrus pugs for transmog

You can go see it right now if you want

[grizzled jay]

Good morning

[spice surge]

Good afternoon

[quiet oar]

I was happy that ive forgotten that experiment

But the Dragonflights Raids Revisted will make me remember them

[spice surge]

Idk it wasnt a terrible fight

Its just one of the fights of all time

[quiet oar]

I mean

the orbs

were buggy as hell

[royal lantern]

assa is just (once again) in the "why should you play it if you chase performance?" state

[quiet oar]

and even before

[royal lantern]

like, spec is good, if somebody says something different they are weird

[quiet oar]

Only PI made it better than sub

[royal lantern]

but its just that sub is better for everything rn in raids, and m+ is outlaw dominated like usssusal for rogue

[vestal wren]

assassination is tuned just low enough to not get pi anymore with sub and outlaw both competing without pi

the population between specs would be diffrent if assassination was more dominant

[royal lantern]

if a spec needs externals to be equal with its other specs, something is wrong

that just means either "spec is undertuned" or "others are tuned to high"

[sick smelt]

gotcha, i'm just dumb and takes me fooorever to learn a rotation for whatever reason. so as long as it's like, i'm not going to be a detriment, i'll just stick with assassination

[royal lantern]

i mean, the spec itsself is in the best state it was in a long long time

good burst in a game where burst always wins

good constant aoe without sacrificing ST dmg

iirc best execute in the game

its just that sub is OP rn

[woeful meteor]

It's just another council fight and they almost always suck

[vestal wren]

i think the first month of the raid showed a good picture of spec distribution wih pi not considered

[royal lantern]

the good thing was this expansion that atleast the council fights all where early, so they where over fast

council fights in 1 of the final 3 bosses? oof, THOSE suck hard

[woeful meteor]

The Nine and Primal Council are probably the best 2 from SL and DF both are super simple

[vestal wren]

i think all raids had at least one good fight

[woeful meteor]

Do dmg it's over in 3 min

[vestal wren]

smolderon, rashok, grimtotem

[royal lantern]

nobody likes sub and only plays it cus its the #1 rogue spec for raids for the last few years, more news at 8

[vestal wren]

if thas the conclusion you draw, fine

i don't try to convince you to play something you like or don't like

[royal lantern]

eh, lets be honest, "bar big on weekly wowhead posts" is a giant part why many people play a spec in the first place

[vestal wren]

possible

[royal lantern]

same with the ussual "omg this is the best gameplay (insert spec name) ever had!!" when its doing high dmg

[vestal wren]

but the majority of players play outlaw

[royal lantern]

but like, we all know that

[vestal wren]

as much of a meme as it sounds

it is still something you will disagree on if i say this is heroic + mythic combined

[royal lantern]

m+ players mostly tbh

and ye ik how the distribution is overall

that sub is not really played on heroic and really high on mythic

[slow tulip]

i like it when my bar is big

[royal lantern]

(for rogue)

[vestal wren]

you had initially

almost sin exclusive

[quiet oar]

Are you playing sub or are you happy to see me?

[vestal wren]

at least in mythic

[slow tulip]

[vestal wren]

an interessting point is

when is it important for a spec to be good

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-dog-happy-gif-15784013

just happy

[subtle tundra]

Have yet to spec either sub or outlaw 😎

I went healer faster than those

[royal lantern]

almost never for most people

[vestal wren]

is it the first month of the raid? is it during the entire raid
is it all fights of a raid? only the last 2?

what data point is relevant

what season is relevant, does fated count?

is beta or ptr important, because it is 100% the period of time youtubers, streamers and the general public makes their first decision

[subtle tundra]

If assa was good in m+ I would've played it

It's just a mediocre spec that requires a team around it

[vestal wren]

outlaw is currently just the easiest to fit in most cops

and it performs well

[subtle tundra]

But I'm talking about assa

[vestal wren]

assassination, just liek subtlety is more comp depenend

and cooldown windows are a bit more strict on assassination

[subtle tundra]

Assa once again has to compromise st or aoe for the other

[spice surge]

Imo assa's tree is actually fine now, its just undertuned

[vestal wren]

^

splatter is also incredibly good

[royal lantern]

yep

[spice surge]

Actually its more than fine, its actually very good

[subtle tundra]

It is fine when compared to other classes, outlaw and sub have to be different

Small compromises

[royal lantern]

mixture of assa slightly undertuned compared to sub, sub overtuned and outlaw beeing outlaw in m+

assa itself is fine

[vestal wren]

i don't think sub is overtuned in m+

[royal lantern]

they just dont do any of the number fixes that would make it great again

[royal lantern]

ye, not in m+, didnt mean that

[vestal wren]

you could argue for raid, but even there its more a consequence of current tier set, trinkets and most importantly boss design

[royal lantern]

UNPOPULAR OPINION INCOMMING

all the "sub/outlaw reduce the cd of deffensive abilitys" needs to be nuked, its kinda stupid when outlaw has a 80% uptime on 20%dr and sub can cloak every 1min

like

its rogue

rogue is allready tanky af

but those 2 specs push it too far rn

[vestal wren]

idk i don't rly see it as an issue on sub

outlaw might be a bit too immortal

[royal lantern]

less on sub, more on outlaw ye

on sub itss a side effect on dust beeing stupid and needing a nuke

[spice surge]

Subs tree is actually pretty horrible, theres very little room to change around things because like all but 8 points in the entire tree are locked and cant be changed

[subtle tundra]

Idk mistweaver kinda fun to play so I don't mind assa being mid

[royal lantern]

ik that

[vestal wren]

the issue ont he sub tree is just the lack of meaningful choice

[royal lantern]

talked about it with fuu at patch launch a bit

sub tree is horrible as hell

[subtle tundra]

I'd like ww to get another buff so maybe I'd try it

[royal lantern]

sub tree has so many talents that feel like weird pvp inserts

[vestal wren]

i think sin tree is the best worked out

but i also think it is a consequence of assassiantion getting the most attention in DF

[royal lantern]

rn it feels like sub is "saved" by having (too high) numbers and dust beeing a dummy talent that makes it way to sstrong for raiding

damm S key acting up again

[vestal wren]

dust makes sub work so well in raid

and if you look back at realz messages, it wasn't supposed to be the choice but more of a optional thing

[royal lantern]

ye, my problem with dust is the future tbh

like, how do you balance a spec that has almost fully customizable cd windows

you see it on smolderon, sub can just do heavy 1min burst if it wants

that IS a desing problem

[subtle tundra]

You leave it in the dust

[vestal wren]

i mean there are other design problems too

e.g. burst on any fight that has uneven damage requirements in phases

[quiet oar]

Another one bites the dust?

[vestal wren]

yet we have execute classes not totally gutted

[royal lantern]

BITES THE DUSTOOOOO?

[vestal wren]

haha

i do think the reason "dust is a problem"

[royal lantern]

ye

[vestal wren]

is just how well the tier works for it

with multiple fights, most notably smolderon tailored for it

[royal lantern]

like, i dont have bigger problems with sub itself rn, feels a bit undercooked in some reagards and tree needs a fresh up, but yeha

but then you put in dust

and oof

[quiet oar]

Gib outlaw dust

[royal lantern]

thats called restless blades

[quiet oar]

Sub Outlaw Hero tree 100% has cdr on it

[royal lantern]

ye, i think the same

[vestal wren]

reading through the current trees

[quiet oar]

Sin outlaw tree Execute

[vestal wren]

made me hope we get the tree last

[royal lantern]

?

why that

lol

[quiet oar]

more niche

or more focus on their Blade Flurries

[royal lantern]

like, just from name and what the specs are "based around"

deathstalker (assa/sub) is gonna be stealth stuff and makes vanish/dance stronger (fuck class tree dance)

trickster (sub/outlaw) is gonna be cdr stuff

fatebound (assa/outlaw and change the name wtf) is gonna be something about resources

[vestal wren]

sin/outlaw tree - uncapped BF

[quiet oar]

Big fuu

🤝

[royal lantern]

same

holy shit 80% of them are horrible

legit only the mage tree is good

hunter and evoker are "w/e, passive buffs"

[vestal wren]

trickster has the best naming in terms of theme.

[royal lantern]

all the others just straight up make stuff worse

[vestal wren]

damage numebers asside, i thought the trees should be picked because of thematic not numbers

[quiet oar]

Well

[vestal wren]

can't see that working out

[quiet oar]

That worked well in SL with Covenants

so why not

What could go wrong?

[vestal wren]

covenants ended up surprisingly well for rogue

at least before the covenant legendary powers

[quiet oar]

Druids and Hunter

Stuck on NF

Well to some degree

[vestal wren]

i remember having all of them beeing within ~1% dps or so initially

on the srpreadsheet

then we found out that kyrinan cps got changed and kyrian ended up a bit better

[quiet oar]

I mean the worst ting about the covenant thing

was the switchting

between them

[vestal wren]

agree

[slow tulip]

ripcord wasnt pulled :/

[vestal wren]

kinda, it was still not easy to switch

or lets say you had still some amount of friction

[whole mason]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[royal python]

is it optimal to always multilate during dance over ambush procs, for kb poison application chances ? or doesnt matter

[quiet oar]

Mutilate

in Dance

You dont need Ambush procs in Dance/Subterfuge windows

you can just use them

But afaik it doesnt matter for Poison application

[subtle tundra]

Last I heard it was basically whatever what you used

[quiet oar]

Ye

[subtle tundra]

Ambush preferred

[gusty mirage]

mutilate during deathmark was like 0.1% better or something like that

if that's worth it to you to set up 2 binds, more power to ya

I also say was, because this was checked prior to all the nerfs

now, who knows

[dark token]

i just realized this is the only utility/defensive node in the whole sin tree ... kinda weird

[gusty mirage]

disrespecting cttc like that

smh

[dark token]

thats a dps node

[gusty mirage]

that's a personal utility node sir

it's there so @royal lantern can hard cast snd like he's always dreamt of

[dark token]

compare to sub tree which has 7 utility/defensive nodes

[gusty mirage]

real talk tho

why is this sub only

it was by far our best conduit in SL

?????????????????

[dark token]

almost all of these nodes are in the first gate

[vestal wren]

wasn't it back in sl also sub only?

[gusty mirage]

it was labeled sub, but worked for assa iirc

[vestal wren]

think thats the answer

[gusty mirage]

WELL CHANGE IT BACK

[vestal wren]

assassinaiton was historically the spec with less mobility

it is now on par with sub

[spice surge]

This talent being outlaw only is also a bit weird init?

[vestal wren]

i am still not 100% in agreement that snd added a lot of positives

[gusty mirage]

it was working in a key for me last week

[dark token]

outlaw has 8 defensive/utility nodes in the first gate

[gusty mirage]

and then stopped working the next key

[dark token]

sub has 7

[gusty mirage]

[dark token]

sin has 0

i like the design of the sin tree but they need to make this equitable

[spice surge]

Sin gets twice as strong leeching poison

[dark token]

sub tree is also pretty poor pathing but thats a seperate thing

[spice surge]

Which is obviously worse in keys, but for raids its fine

[gusty mirage]

I'll say it so you don't have to

[vestal wren]

iron wire, is unique as it gives assassinaiton a kind of aoe silence

[dark token]

yes its the ONLY util node tho

in the whole tree

thats not super cool

sin is noticeably squishier than sub/outlaw cause of it

[vestal wren]

i think the assassiantion tree now has interessting choices

[gusty mirage]

it's fine man it does more....

oh wait

[vestal wren]

even if it has less utility nodes

[gusty mirage]

it doesn't

unlucky

at least it has spatter though

amirite

[dark token]

i like the sin tree the best out of all 3 but i just noticed this today

and was kinda shocked

its a big imbalance

[gusty mirage]

realistically all the utility at the top of the sub tree still feels bad when certain dps talents are in a position where you have to give up utility you want to get to the talent you need

[vestal wren]

just to emphasize one thing

[gusty mirage]

I still think utility/defensive talents should be in the general trees and dps should be in the spec trees

[spice surge]

Yes

[gusty mirage]

would make life significantly easier to balance

especially considering they pruned away all the caked in stuff to make these trees

[vestal wren]

we still trade off dps talents in the initial gate for single target, the same as in 10.0 and 10.1

[spice surge]

You could have one-offs like iron wire, but the utility section of sub doesnt feel great

[gusty mirage]

esp considering free cheapshot is forced in raid

lmao

[spice surge]

Even though the exhil talent itself feels nice

Having fast shroud in raid but not in keys

[vestal wren]

i don't think the impact overall is that big

[spice surge]

Is also a great meme

[vestal wren]

outalws higher stamina got nerfed to be very small

[spice surge]

Wdym very small

Its 5%

instead of 10

[vestal wren]

isn't it 2% now

wait do i missremember

is the tooltip wrong

seems so, i thought it went down to 2 or 3%

[gusty mirage]

I think its wrong on wowhead

[vestal wren]

well there goes my argument ^^

[gusty mirage]

I cannot confirm or deny that statement because I've never specced outlaw and selected talents this entire expac

lmao

[vestal wren]

with it on 2 or 3% i think its fair to say that utility talents ended up beeing flavor

[gusty mirage]

my outlaw "talents" is the original starter build so it's a 1/3 filled tree

[vestal wren]

but with 5% and the additional cdr it seems more out of line

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[vestal wren]

giant is 2%, well would be if it was working

[gusty mirage]

at least it makes your character larger

that's kinda neat

[dark token]

yes i agree the sub tree is bad pathing with the forced utilities and such but i still wanted to make a point that assa is NOTICEABLY squishier due having 1 utility/defensive talents when the other specs have 7-8

i actually think it would be competative with sub in keys if it could live like sub

[vestal wren]

the gap between the 2 is very small

[dark token]

its not really

i play a +27 and get 100-0d by nightmare bolt on xavius whereas sub/outlaw rogue lives with 20% hp

[vestal wren]

the reason you see low amount of people on sin

is tuning

[dark token]

i just tried it

+27 dht as sin vs sub

that is a like a 2-3 key level diff

when you take 20% less dmg

[spice surge]

Well ye 10% dmg reduction is better in keys than 12% leech

[dark token]

sub has constant 10% dr + 10% hp shield which is also 5% leach when u get hit

outlaw has 5% stam, 4% vers, and 70% uptime on a 20% dr

sin has 0

its not a small difference

[spice surge]

Its not 70% uptime on evasion lmao

[dark token]

idk thats what people said in outlaw channel or something i dont play the spec

didnt actually look

its probably similar uptime to sub DR

[royal lantern]

huh

[royal lantern]

remember infinitedude saying how assa is fundemantaly broken because of spatter and that spatter needs a urgent nerf at patch start

🙂

[static glacier]

evasion is like 30-50% uptime for OL

70 is wild

[royal lantern]

evasion should not be reduced at all

no deffensive should do that

just not reasonable when rogue deffensives are all so strong

[static glacier]

let me tell you a story about mage 🙂

[royal lantern]

i cant

[static glacier]

xd

[royal lantern]

they used 1 of their 7 deffensives against it

and then 1 of their 2 full hp heals

[static glacier]

tbh I still this ret is tankier than rogue

the amount of shit they live without pressing anything

it's unreal

[gusty mirage]

you and slice and dice are forever tied together in my heart

[vestal wren]

is this a cat or painted tits/booty?

[gusty mirage]

that's a good question

if I'm to believe the discord server it's from, that is a cat

but it does look like booba

[vestal wren]

haha, now you can't unsee

[agile geode]

sin has iron wire btw and double non lethal poison

[storm belfry]

[gusty mirage]

ily

[storm belfry]

Ily2

[dark token]

Iron wire is the only sin utility talent, and it's not a personal defensive talent

It's good don't get me wrong

But it's not a defensive talent

[dark token]

This is a meme because crippling poison actively ints you in some keys/affixes and ur forced to take it due to lethal dose

Should not count as a positive or negative

[proven jasper]

give us a dr when a target is affected by deadly poison

fixed

[dark token]

Sin does need to match the other rogue specs closer the other two literally take 20% less dmg most of the time + they stack vers which makes problem worse

I wish they consolidated some of the DPS talents into one node then added like 2-4 utilities or defensive choices

Or move all util/defensive into class tree

[gusty mirage]

best course of action for all classes tbh

[dark token]

the sad part is it has 6 extra dps nodes but doesnt do more dam

[gusty mirage]

move all utility/defensives that aren't spec specific (like iron wire for example) to class tree

I'd like to have quick decisions over 3% less physical damage personally

or at least that choice

[royal lantern]

those are all reasonable opinions

sadly we introduce HERO TREES now and cant do changes to class and spec trees anymore cus we will spend the entire expansion trying to fix them

[gusty mirage]

so true bestie

what better way to fix talent trees than introducing a specific one for each spec hybrid for each class

[royal lantern]

[vestal wren]

i am still curios if we see iteration on the baseline trees

or if all dev time moves to the new trees

[gusty mirage]

some specs still need serious love

tbh

I hope that's not the case

[vestal wren]

druids still have a 3 point talent

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

but i remember something along the lines of "no changes"

[gusty mirage]

iirc they said no major reworks

but they also didn't consider the rogue stuff a major rework

even though I think all rogues can agree it was pretty major lol

[vestal wren]

i like atat line of argumentation

[raven flower]

monks on suicide watch

(they never left it)

[dark token]

whats a major rework

ret?

mages?

[gusty mirage]

ret was apparently the last major rework

[dark token]

and the only one i guess

WW talent tree needs god

[subtle stream]

Mage. Please…

[spice spire]

Get deleted

Finished that for u homie

[grizzled jay]

Wonder if they'll bring back Fangs proc for one of the Hero talents.

[vital haven]

i love the fact that the spec that is already hitting 40% vers just from stats also gets extra vers in their spec tree and massive cdr on all of their defensives except for cloak

[proven jasper]

yeah two feint charges is plenty for us

[vital haven]

outlaw doesnt even need to tkae extra feint talent

its overkill

[proven jasper]

They dont take it all

Yeah man

Must be nice

[grizzled jay]

Recuperate in Sin tree ty

[keen spruce]

outlaw just randomly has a 5% stam node and a 4% vers node too

[soft shale]

they also have cdr on evasion with elu

and super low cd vanish

[keen spruce]

yeah with good rolls you can have insane uptime on the evasion dr

sub also gets vanish shield

which is pretty gud

[soft shale]

the good thing about shield is that it is on demand and with potentially 2 charges

and EHP scales really well with vers and general drs

so using evasion/feint and vanishing makes sure you survive like 95% of things

unless it is a planned one shoterino

[waxen oyster]

the stam used to be 10% in s1

was a pvp talent prior along with cdr on defensives

[dapper moat]

How do you guys do pug runs if tank is not indicating thr eoute beforehand. how you use major cooldowns? Atm Im getting somewhat low dps and one of the problem is that i save my deathmark and vanish quite alot for bosses. Many thanks for all the input. 🙂

[shy pecan]

Fire stuff on CD. Better do it to get some value than no value at all by missing casts

[dapper moat]

k, sounds like a sound advice. Need to start to be more aggressive with the majors

[desert inlet]

I usually get annoyed then go play baldurs gate 3

u could try that

[shy pecan]

[dapper moat]

sounds good option also, BG games have always been diamonds 😄

[spice spire]

Ur real for that

[shy pecan]

I guess to add, if you know if there's something to hold it for (like a problematic mob or boss), then can hold. But just fire otherwise.

[haughty flicker]

i get annoyed, go play bg3, then suffer from the same thing i always do in games like that and constantly overanaylze and optimize whatever im trying to play and never make it past act 1

[storm belfry]

U r the realest

[balmy condor]

I just don’t do keys

[spice spire]

Fake bestie

[storm belfry]

Lmao what a fail

[runic hinge]

I wish I had a more consistent group for keys

[storm belfry]

No one saw that abomination

[waxen oyster]

https://twitter.com/allyparser/status/1747678424179892579 accurate

ally (@allyparser) on X

Doctors: "he can't possibly have brain damage, he shows no signs of it"

Patient: "I can't wait to go home and push keys in world of warcraft!"

House:

Twitter · Jan 17, 2024, 5:53 PM

[storm belfry]

Hi whisp

Hope your day has been swell

[balmy condor]

it has not been fantastic

but I have taco bell on the way

[storm belfry]

I send virtual hug

[balmy condor]

and there's a chance fyrakk dies today

so we shall see

[storm belfry]

Oh pog

[balmy condor]

day might get get

yep

that's what I said

get get

it's new slang

you wouldn't get it

[storm belfry]

[shy pecan]

[runic hinge]

Rizzed again

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/me-when-i-fucking-get-you-neko-atsume-me-when-me-when-i-get-you-mrtheyes-gif-4157721420697656658

[runic hinge]

Channel shut down for an hour after I said rizz. I might be a boomer

[spice spire]

It would react the same way it @gilded oasis Said it too.

[gilded oasis]

Zar, killer of channels

[desert inlet]

I love poorly drawn lines

[spice spire]

Amen sistren

[spice spire]

I’m down personally

[balmy path]

is there a Cruel Dreamcarver buff worth picking up or does anyone know of any place where I can see all the buffs to see the best

[balmy condor]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[balmy condor]

"cheat death" is a very loose term here

it's just a small heal

[plain moon]

I was just told by an officer that "theres no proof sin does more with PI than a ret" and "sims can be wrong but his instincts are better to go off"

i hate this button man

remove PI

[fleet pagoda]

man I didn't realize ret was doing so much damage now. what in tarnation

[tawny geyser]

Its insane…we are progging Fyraak and our ret is always 10-15k above me in Overall

[fleet pagoda]

tbf in fyrakk your role as execute is valuable as compared to overall farm

they're competitive on bosses in m+ now. on 26's/27's where trash lives for forever they're sometimes getting more prio damage out but still slammin overall. i feel mad useless lol

[brittle cloud]

We’re progging Tindral with one PI in the raid. Should it go to BM hunter or assa?

[dark token]

Bm

Assa on execute

[brittle cloud]

Cheers

[indigo ether]

@blazing jewel explain?

[earnest remnant]

mans is retired

leave him alone pleb

[indigo ether]

sorry scana i didnt mean it

[blazing jewel]

I will openly flame this guild

consequence rogue drama round 2

[earnest remnant]

[shy pecan]

Are you completely done with WoW?

[indigo ether]

https://tenor.com/view/pipebomb-gif-21727153

[blazing jewel]

soon

[shy pecan]

What else do you need to do?

[spice spire]

@blazing jewel explain

[fallow canopy]

I'm gonna go insane

[storm forum]

People are still stealing my feathers and orbs it's insane.

[fallow canopy]

other flyers or random peeps?

[storm forum]

Other fliers

Thanks

[runic hinge]

You’re welcome

[fallow canopy]

we had an issue with a mage and our aug stealing flyers feathers for like 200 pulls

that was interesting

[storm forum]

Our evoker sometimes steals feathers in fire so he can backup its alright

[spice spire]

@storm forum new pfp wtf

[storm forum]

yeah im an edater now

[spice spire]

Without me???

[storm forum]

yeah

[gaunt sigil]

38 more wipes today

[runic hinge]

Yummy wipes

[past forum]

Guild just got to Council cause the healers insisted on doing Larodar first. First pull, first frontal, every dh dead

[runic hinge]

[quiet oar]

We have 260 wipes or smth like that and no P3

[steel ridge]

We saw P3 the first time after 200

Or slightly below

[quiet oar]

We still wipe a lot in P1

[steel ridge]

Same

[quiet oar]

People dying to balls and blazes

Also Firestorm

[rotund oak]

[quiet oar]

Rip Scana

[halcyon hamlet]

So I was checking logs on both sin and sub for the highest tindral ST, and its showing that sin is doing more dam in st for tindral than sub?

[quiet oar]

[halcyon hamlet]

would love to be corrected then

[earnest remnant]

u sure about that?

[vestal wren]

huh? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/35#metric=bossdps&boss=2786&class=Rogue

[earnest remnant]

from rank 1 sub to the rank 1 assa

there is a 20k gap

[vestal wren]

this is the #1 assa

[sick garnet]

I think he is talking about boss damage?

[vestal wren]

also

[halcyon hamlet]

welp i was just looking at in incorrectly then. Glad to know

[vestal wren]

the filter i applied was "damage to boss"

[gaunt sigil]

We are at 228 and haven’t gotten all the way through first add set yet

[sick garnet]

my bad then, sry

[waxen oyster]

that sub in the ss

based sandglass enjoyer

[vestal wren]

i found it interessting to see this in the top logs

[waxen oyster]

oh thats from ulduar timewalking

what was buff uptime

[quiet oar]

prob simmed well

[waxen oyster]

hard thing about those trinkets is only one chance

[grim jay]

Just use M pips

[vestal wren]

matrix is probably quite good on tindral (on sub)

also a one time chance one ^^

[runic hinge]

My Druid got it

I haven’t really played my Druid since tho

[lunar geyser]

Is assa fun in m+

[quiet oar]

This is very subjective

[uneven summit]

Objectively, yes

[orchid pewter]

In high fort keys without spiteful? Sure

[vestal wren]

if fun = high numbers, it isn't the best tuned spec right now

[orchid pewter]

Silence on pull can feel very nice tho

[uneven summit]

tyran weeks just feel bad in general, your main target always dies to soon, especially in EB

😛

[royal lantern]

huh

like, in fort weeks they atleast dont die in 6seconds lol

[rotund oak]

it does dmg but it dies often,u can do up to 22-23s ig

fun idk,without acro is feels weird but without tea it feels even weirder

Outlaw looks the most ''fun'' in terms of gameplay out of the 3

[royal lantern]

mate

its rogue

how the fuck does rogue "die often"

[subtle tundra]

I think he meant 27-28 aswell

[arctic socket]

Dies often

[brave gazelle]

Very fun but you'll probably do less damage than law and sub

[oak tangle]

I die, cause healers are so used to ignoring me that when they need to heal me they aren’t prepared

[spice spire]

GM gamers

[maiden rover]

It’s def morning

[rotund oak]

compared to sub and outlaw it dies often

as in,you will die more than u would if u were not playing sin

just to make it clear,maybe its a language barrier

[grim tangle]

I would like it on the record that my rank 1 sin rogue parse is only 8k behind the rank 1 sub parse, it just happens to be in the previous partition, ty.

[spice surge]

Even if assa did the same as sub then it would still be worse since you need PI unfortunately

[grim tangle]

yes very good balancing by blizzard as always

[gusty mirage]

Esp when the other PI option is a spec that loses very little value when having to do mechanics

BM hunter is easily the best value for PI because the majority of their damage is pets and the pets don’t have to stop attacking when you do mechanics

[dark token]

Depends how many PIs you have

We run 2 priest and only 1 hunter so I would auto get PI any time I play sin

[spice surge]

I mean its not like PI is useless on anything that isnt assa, bm or uhdk

[spice spire]

False bestie

If ur not PIing those three ur inting and you’ll literally never kill a normal boss!!!!!

[dark token]

That's literally what my guild thinks

Next best commonly played target is like ret or dh which is 30% worse

[royal lantern]

tbf, find a raid that doesnt have a BM

[spice surge]

Sure if youre entire raid is sub rogues

[royal lantern]

a fate worse then death

[soft shale]

we need PI to get the biggest shadow ruptures

but actually autumn can be so fire as assa/sub too

on many fights

[royal lantern]

mate, i dont even think paladins themself know what those buffs do

do they even see any play?

[indigo ginkgo]

its very simple, make those external random, or only aplicable only once per fight on same target ! or just cut power in 5 and buff 5 player random

its just nutts they nerfing a spec to ground because externals benefit too much the class, and now we midle bot on the pack

[past forum]

For this, my friend, you are so real

[spice spire]

[thorn fjord]

[glossy hull]

Away from pc atm, does sin still have overkill and is the functionality the same to wotlk

[spice spire]

No it doesn’t

This is retail though, did you mean wotlk?

[clever sapphire]

random externals, well no worries, hero talent trees are giving just that to priests, because being reliant on externals wasnt enough, now you will rely on random externals

lovely

[past forum]

My journey on my first patch as an ass main

[arctic socket]

Ass is pretty nice

[vestal wren]

nice, you found what makes you happy

[past forum]

I rly enjoyed learning rogue on sub and i think the design is rly good, but yeah it finally feels like im playing a spec i like and not just fulfilling rogue duty for my guild

[spice spire]

Real

Love ass, ass main even

[arctic socket]

Ass main definitely

[balmy condor]

Ass mains rise up

[blazing jewel]

[shy pecan]

[runic hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-tongue-cat-licking-white-cat-cursed-cat-gif-27575167

[blazing jewel]

[proven jasper]

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-tongue-cat-licking-white-cat-cursed-cat-gif-27575167

[maiden rover]

What if I alt ass?

[spice spire]

An ass man

Amen

[rotund oak]

SubScana

[blazing jewel]

I recrafted stuff to play sin again

Sub is too annoying on reclear

[rotund oak]

was waiting for scana stream

where dem vods ffs

[blazing jewel]

Uhh I deleted my vod from last clear lol

May have accidentally hit a windows command that showed my full name in very large letters lol

Granted I have basic white guy name #4 so it doesn’t really matter but yea

[rotund oak]

Ild most likely do what i did with all the vods/streams in the past,eat pizza,memorize the tech

learn something new

[blazing jewel]

Last raid was alt raid and it did not go well

Would not learn anything from that lmfao

[soft shale]

at least you are not named ernesto ermenegildo

that one is not usual

[runic hinge]

I keep thinking of playing sub for something different and cause it does a lot of damage but I can’t commit to doing anything but hitting dummies

[gilded oasis]

hello john smith

[thorn fjord]

John Smith?

[thorn fjord]

jynx

[blazing jewel]

[earnest remnant]

calm down Kylo ren

[gilded oasis]

maybe thats basic white guy name #1 or 2 then

[thorn fjord]

though tbh out here your name is pretty unique @blazing jewel

[blazing jewel]

[thorn fjord]

its not Yuslani Rodriguez

[earnest remnant]

his last name is extremely common where i live

[blazing jewel]

Bro the amount of yasmanis in Miami is insane

[thorn fjord]

Cubans out here be coming up with the craziest names lol

I work with a Cuban girl named Dilaxy

Die-Lax-ie is how its pronounced

Gotta love my people ❤️

[bronze pike]

thigh main myself

oh wait

[gilded oasis]

original or extra crispy?

[blazing jewel]

It’s going to be your last name soon

[earnest remnant]

[past forum]

my gf got me a snuggy for christmas and honestly when i game while wearing it i feel FULLY locked in

[blazing jewel]

irl power infusion

[past forum]

my envenoms hit harder and crit more now

[austere sorrel]

Hey what's that stealth command?

!stealth

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Long In-depth explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
https://youtu.be/DoZDPFk_Zog
The TLDW (I understand, it's LONG):

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths
• You still have vanish and in 10.2, shadow dance, which gives you MANY options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[slate crown]

!stats

[gilded oasis]

!stealthi

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Mast = Crit = Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs like Witherbark's Branch and Wafting Devotion can often de-value the stat in question. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

[gilded oasis]

unlucky

[past forum]

what is that command supposed to do? put your dinner leftovers in a lil dish and set it on your back porch?

[gilded oasis]

maybe

I was excited to find out though

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/8doubloons-cat-stretching-cat-stretch-orange-cat-stretching-cat-stretching-gif-gif-23999426

[balmy condor]

I might actually be hungry

[quiet oar]

Whisp and Shmeeps Romance !?

[runic hinge]

A duck and an e-boy? No. It is forbidden.

[rare jackal]

he was a sub boy
she was a BM girl

[blazing jewel]

[gusty mirage]

Honestly you can insert probably 50 names before it becomes an impossibility

[quiet oar]

Oxi and shmeeps Romance?

[slate crown]

yo wtf nsfw on main

[glossy dust]

is it a bug flying out of stealth constantly?

[gilded oasis]

its a feature

[quiet oar]

There are many things

That can trigger thst

🙂

[quiet oar]

#outlaw message

[gilded oasis]

I knew it was our MW's fault

[glossy dust]

im standing still or got a buff in raid and randomly flew out

[gilded oasis]

Yeah read that list theres a few things there that will do it

[quiet oar]

Also

If you have the serpent coil

Trinket

It can get you out of stealth

If serpent spawn right after one Pack dies, and you Target the next Pack which is i fight with your Tank

This is an edge case

[gilded oasis]

little sneky sneks

cuties

[quiet oar]

That pissed me off

One key

Because i was like

Wtf gets me out of stealth

[gusty mirage]

I do bully him, that can be seen as foreplay in some circles

[quiet oar]

But shmeeps doesnt come over as a sub guy

[runic hinge]

He’s definitely played sub before

[royal lantern]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Profile (lots of one-off weakauras)
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[ripe carbon]

with thistle tea, do i have to use thistle tea before i apply bleeds to get the damage bonus... or does it increase it if i use it after a bleed is applied?

[shy pecan]

It's dynamic

It'll increase it while it's active. There's no snapshotting aside from Improv Garrote and Nightstalker for sin (might be missing something else)

[ripe carbon]

ah ok i was gonna ask that too, ty

[balmy condor]

Yeh just improved gar and nightstalker

But we don’t play around nightstalker rupture

So it’s basically just garrote from stealth

[runic hinge]

Think about the 10% juicy rupture damage tho

[rotund oak]

Chonky Lin is chonky

[balmy condor]

my cats name is linux and he's not orange

[spice spire]

Yeah ur the orange cat of the family

[blazing jewel]

@desert inlet LIZARD DEAD

https://tenor.com/view/rave-cats-gif-19256471

[desert inlet]

I feel nothing

[blazing jewel]

big loot for sure right

[shy pecan]

Grats

[quiet oar]

Congrats

[desert inlet]

should've been dead a while ago

but thank

[spice spire]

Grats endwyr

[desert inlet]

do I play mage next tier

kingsbane stinky

[spice spire]

Endwyr

Pls

[desert inlet]

I really really don't like it

[spice spire]

But mage

[desert inlet]

I like fire

maybe I could raid mage and do keys on rogue

I did that in nyalotha

[quiet oar]

Play Outlaw

[desert inlet]

getting a bad rtb feels like getting a bad kingsbane

I'd like outlaw if not for rtb I think

it's fun most of the time

[earnest remnant]

just play

kir

no bad RTB

[keen spruce]

@desert inlet u kill dragon?

[desert inlet]

ye

[keen spruce]

[desert inlet]

warrior got a thingy

[balmy condor]

[desert inlet]

which no longer matters lol

[balmy condor]

grats on kill

[keen spruce]

@desert inlet Whispyr and i are very proud of u.

[desert inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-confetti-unamused-unimpressed-bored-gif-5116041

thank

are there are any red ones left

[keen spruce]

i can save them for u

[desert inlet]

nice

those are my favorite

[quiet oar]

Thing is RTB isnt what matters the most

you got almost 3 buffs perma

so

[royal lantern]

remember RTB as a finisher

and rerolling actually beeing a thing

[plain moon]

Reading this gave me Vietnam flashbacks to when I played outlaw in BoD

Def a way better design now being a cd

[royal lantern]

BoD was a great raid tbh

[quiet oar]

Dude

[royal lantern]

1 of the best we ever had

[quiet oar]

That was the time

i didnt play outlaw

[orchid haven]

Hello mates, i'm new to rogue I have a question for Aoe, are you supposed to spread the maximum of garrote and rupture during carnage then tempest then starting to use DM ? Or you just enter the DM fast and play around caustic ? Thanks 🙂 (using demise build)

[rotund oak]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps

(its written by mr whispyr)

[royal lantern]

the big tl:dr for most situations is

with carnage skilled, you just garrote->garrote->rupture (or CT if you have CT skilled) and then MAYBE spread another rupture with carnage and start doing dmg with splatter

most enemys rn just die very quickly in aoe, so longtime aoe spreading is kinda low value

general rule of thumb is "keep dots running on important targets that need to die fast or targets that stay alive for longer, and cleave the smaller stuff down with just splatter" and you do fine

[orchid haven]

Thanks for the info mate

[bitter wasp]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[violet nymph]

hey guys - basic question for rogue phase 2 Assa - double instant III poisons on daggers? 🙏

[steel ridge]

#classic-discussion

[hallow token]

ffs i hope they give us that 3% back. this is stupid. we were fine, and they broke us on purpose. https://www.wowhead.com/news/amirdrassil-weekly-dps-rankings-dragonflight-season-3-week-13-337679?webhook

[violet heron]

I've been doing so poorly with Assassination these days that I've essentially quit the game so to speak which is a first in the 19 years I've played the game.

Probably a good thing.

[vestal wren]

assassintion is not bad

its not the best option possible, but its still good and if you like the gameplay lop its a good fit

i saw people try to fabricate issues that in my opinion barely exist

the main reason assassiantion isn't played as much currently is tuning

there are smaller issues or maybe annoyances but they are minor

e.g. one thing that could be better is the placement of acrobatic strikes in the general tree

but this is something all 3 specs suffer from

[royal lantern]

tbf, assa doesnt really get affected by acro much anyway

for outlaw no acro actually feels really bad quiet often cus of how BF works

for assa its w/e imo

[violet heron]

I'm able to see why Subtlety has been performing so much better and I've thought about swapping just because of how depressing my performance has been as of late due to it.

[vestal wren]

sub without can be rly bad too, given the dependency on auto attacks for shadowcraft

[violet heron]

I'm definitely not the best rogue by any means but holy fuck

It's god awful

[vestal wren]

there are some reasons why subtlety performs so well

[violet heron]

My performance that is

[vestal wren]

the biggest one, is just the raid design and itemization

both items and the encounters just work well for its current toolkit