assassination

[sweet pawn]

new hotfixes

https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/1706063-wow-hotfixes-november-13/

[outer cairn]

didn't realize the opener had changed. good thing i saw that

[still creek]

In keys you dont really have to press snd every pack tho tbh, carries over really often since we spam envenoms so much

[red bloom]

3am reading i thought you meant to type and

[dark token]

No tier set fix tho

[simple ore]

I'll believe that leech poison fix when I see it

it's been fixed like 10 times

[dark token]

Assa gained 1% from LD tho

And dungeon deeps

[lucid rain]

vault items will be on myth track but the actual dungeon drops won't be, right?

[simple ore]

I think 19 or 20 gives mythic track?

[keen spruce]

hey i found dat bug

[lucid rain]

oh okay

[simple ore]

don't remember off the top of my head

[keen spruce]

after almost missing that bug

and whispyr having to pester me to test it properly

[lucid rain]

well, for example, I see bis m+ gear on wowhead with a 486 nick of time

[drifting cloud]

yes, a vault item

[slate crown]

YOOO I can delete my leeching bug weakaura

[drifting cloud]

thats why its c alled bis

[slate crown]

(I'm not going to yet)

(In case it's not actually fixed yet)

[lucid rain]

well the item just doesn't have an upgrade track on it so I wasn't sure what the case was

[simple ore]

ye mb I was thinking of vault reward, you need an 18 to get mythic vault rewards

486 is max mythic upgrade

gunna be a vault roulette season

[elfin forge]

Oh so it locks it to myth track 3/4? I thought we can later upgrade it to 4/4 track sadge.

[dark token]

I'm gonna enjoy doing 8 keys for an entire year to try and loot:
Nick of time x2
Branch
Mydas

Very cool

[surreal nova]

huh? since when is myth track upgrading over at 3/4

[simple ore]

idk I'm just going off what I remember from discussions

[dark token]

It's 489

[simple ore]

489 then

[spice surge]

Leeching Poison should no longer fall off when changing instances.

[surreal nova]

kk

[spice surge]

[lucid rain]

yeah, so

[dark token]

[lucid rain]

this discussion is why I was asking because on the wowhead guide, it shows:

[surreal nova]

blaming whyspir for that seems reasonable

[red bloom]

room for scaling

[elfin forge]

Haha

[lucid rain]

maybe wowhead isn't updated for upgrade tracks on dungeon gear

[elfin forge]

Are all the simms done with 486 or 489 daggers rofl?

[spice surge]

489

[elfin forge]

Phew

[lucid rain]

okay cool

[drifting cloud]

dont overthink wowhead tooltips

as ingame, they can suck

[lucid rain]

so as long as you're doing +18 or higher, you can collect 489 gear

[simple ore]

no whispyr is sandbagging our sims to try and get us an extra week of relevance

[blazing jewel]

am I remembering wrong

didnt 2 timestrike daggers not do anything

[void pecan]

ilevel brother.

[blazing jewel]

so theoretical best main hand would be a raid dagger

[outer cairn]

so everytime we get dm up now we just basically gar/env x3

[lucid rain]

wild

[gusty mirage]

what

[gusty mirage]

what

[drifting cloud]

scana watched too much milf manor

[gusty mirage]

it's a stat

you get more stat

[blazing jewel]

I thought I saw something about the actual timestrike buff didnt double when you held two

when we first started testing it

[gusty mirage]

why would the damage double

[blazing jewel]

well damage double or double the proc amount

[blazing jewel]

you get what im saying hopefully

[drifting cloud]

im getting a branch from vault week1

[wicked obsidian]

I have question about envenom chaining. when you pool on your envenom, the guide says to spend at 4CP. If you envenom at 4CP and have to refresh rupture, the chain seems guaranteed to break because the envenom duration isn't long enough to chain into the next one. Is it better practice to prepare for a Rupture refresh by getting to 5+CP or just using Envenom at 4CP and breaking the chain?

[surreal nova]

you are saying 600 timestrike = 300 timestrike?

[wicked obsidian]

@gusty mirage hello

[gusty mirage]

hi jish

[balmy condor]

so fun fact about how that works in the back end. That table insert looks like this [tr][td]Main Hand Dagger (Prioritize Highest Item Level)[/td][td][item=207996 bonus=[=gv-df-dun]:9526][/td][td][zone=14514]: Galakrond's Fall[/td][/tr]and a lot of that is just random formatting. The dagger itself is [item=207996 bonus=[=gv-df-dun]:9526]

• item id is the actual dagger itself
• bonus id is where it gets tricky. There's a bunch of magic numbers out there but 9526 adds the timestrike stat to whatever item
• the gv-df-dun is a macro for bonus ids that we're given as guide writers, which controls the item level of the gear. You can see what that looks like in the full list in the picture. I don't have control over what gv-raid or crafted-max or gv-df-dun actually points to, that's controlled by the backend devs. So the fact that it's showing 486 instead of 489 is because of that bonus id macro pointing to the wrong item level, and it'll be wrong for all guides across the entire webpage that use it

[blazing jewel]

not saying thats how it is I was just asking because I swear it was like that early on

[lucid rain]

I think I just got shadowstep ambushed by whispyr

[brittle basin]

can anyone give me the quick rundown on how the pooling practice tool works?

[lucid rain]

currently waiting at the spirit healer to res

[gusty mirage]

dog

you know timestrike sims properly right

[blazing jewel]

im not at my pc atm

[gusty mirage]

you don't think whispyr or fuu would've noticed anything before recommending 2x timestrike daggers?

[blazing jewel]

yea you right

[gusty mirage]

[spice surge]

Timestrike isnt actually a stat, you dont get 630 timestrike

You get 2 seperate instances of the proc

The number is just a meme

[keen spruce]

@blazing jewel we just didn't use the timestrike MH before PTR because it was only 441

[lucid rain]

I appreciate the response, I was definitely on the side of there being something wonky on wowhead's side

[blazing jewel]

dont bully

ill cry

[keen spruce]

scana too sub pilled

he's got dust in in brain

[gusty mirage]

scana too busy practicing rotations for specs he's not gonna play

[brittle basin]

@balmy condor sorry for the ping, but how does your pooling pratice weakaura work exactly?

[gusty mirage]

apparently "play what you want, they're all close enough" wasn't a good enough answer for him

[blazing jewel]

I mean

I want to play whatever gives me the best odds of killing the boss

[gusty mirage]

that would be the spec you're most comfortable on

mr. hall of fame raider

you know this

[blazing jewel]

thats why im getting comfortable on all of the specs

if we get to a point where its like hey this add isnt dying quick enough or something

[gusty mirage]

you'll never get equal comfort on all 3 specs

nerd

[blazing jewel]

and I can swap specs freely to fix that issue

id like that option

[balmy condor]

when there's an icon up it means spend energy, when there's no icon up you wait

[gaunt sigil]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brittle basin]

so it showing tea doesnt mean anything

[balmy condor]

showing tea means you spend energy because you have tea charges to burn

[steel spire]

I've been using it wrong fml

[dark token]

Why assa drop this hard in the rankings

Curious if it's their sim fault or something changed

Went from 12.8k to 9k

[blazing jewel]

on cd isnt when sin wants it

[steel spire]

Sandbag Sims

[dark token]

The timings are custom per spec

[balmy condor]

spreadsheet sandbagging my sandbagged sandbags

on god

[lucid rain]

great bags of sand

[blazing jewel]

thats from the aug sheet no?

[gusty mirage]

why are you calling a spreadsheet rankings

[dark token]

On CD means on cooldowns

[balmy condor]

"on cooldown" doesn't sound like custom per spec

[steel spire]

[dark token]

Not on cooldown

It means on THEIR cooldowns

[thorny pond]

Big “per my last email” energy with that one

[lucid rain]

I assumed "on cd" meant hitting it as soon as it was ready

[gusty mirage]

it's okay, most people would assume that

[marble hemlock]

what are the odds that some filthy dk main made that spreadsheet?

[dark token]

So unholy is actually 3 min pis

[marble hemlock]

just so they can keep getting PI

[steel spire]

💪

[stiff kernel]

" to benefit, but not contribute from its effect." what does this mean in english

[surreal nova]

you guys are confusing me. can i rightfully demand PI in my raid when i play sin or do i have to lie about it

[balmy condor]

I just want to say I fucking hate it here

[dark token]

Nah it's the ultra tier set sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vR2mvnqtoXNlUoL-WvrwYdXfzAVULMSx82oKrGCj4z6XhEabUl8EtqoFLnAD4q4bNUTgE8tVP0-oJ9W/pubhtml#

[marble hemlock]

it means if lethal dose gave like 12% damage for 6 bleeds/poisons total, these spells gained damage from it, but didnt add 2% themselves

[gusty mirage]

you too?

[surreal nova]

hehe

[simple ore]

what about acro tho

[merry raven]

demand PI always, regardless of class or spec

[balmy condor]

I can't even share a sim showing the fucking pi gains cause if I do it's "WHY THE NUMBER HUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH?????????????????????????

[lucid rain]

sub stonks increasing

[balmy condor]

and then a week of fiends

animals

baboons

hungry for number

[lucid rain]

chimpanzees?

[stiff kernel]

oh ok so its a good change then?

[dark token]

Here is the sim they are using https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iqKLwpvsqo8x9XLrh3T43W

[steel spire]

[simple ore]

yes it's a buff

[marble hemlock]

yep

should normalize PI gain dps, if DK only calls for it every 3 minutes

[balmy condor]

AINT NO WAY

those fucks using custom APL that sucks ass too

unreal

I actually

unfathomable

[dark token]

Lol

[lucid rain]

someone give whispyr a hug

this is an emergency

[balmy condor]

we submit public APLs for a fucking reason

but no

every dumb bitch on this planet

[dark token]

The guy said he dmed all class discords for TCs to review his sheet

[surreal nova]

he might explode tho

[balmy condor]

decides they're going to go

and get some apl

from someone else

somewhere

secret hidden tech

and GG

use that instead

[dark token]

It's ok sandbag sim

[balmy condor]

no shot the public apl is the right one

right

surely

[serene basin]

hi guys, (pvp related) - Does anyone why I can't drop combat with bleeds active? It will drop for a second and put me back into combat once a bleed ticks

I don't believe this was a thing, but I could be wrong

[strange python]

@balmy condor the best part

Their shadow pi sim uses the right apl

Somehow the dynamic one is wrong

You'd assume the opposite

[simple ore]

idk but I'm finding it harder to restealth in m+ with shadowmeld too so maybe something is up, but I didn't really use shadowmeld for restealths in the past so I could be wrong

[thorn fjord]

#pvp

[lucid rain]

are you using paracausal azzinoth?

[simple ore]

no

[lucid rain]

just checkin

little green flame boi likes to keep you in combat

[simple ore]

not entirely sure what causes it but if I meld I just instantly get put back in combat without leaving meld, so can't restealth

[dark token]

Btw @balmy condor this sheet is what most guilds are using to decide on tier set allocation and PI allocation etc, I know it's a pain in the ass but I would try to get him to correct it if possible

He's very open to fixes and changes

Or I can reach out and do it if you wanna submit a sim in his format

[balmy condor]

I don't give a fuck

I actually

can't be fucked

people using custom APLs

when we publically submit and support simc apls

that are just baseline to every sim

[chilly viper]

This is the way?

[white orchid]

I lost my Pi to BM hunter they linked that today lol I dont care but I see yall talking about it now so its funny lol

[balmy condor]

is the dumbest fucking shit

I have ever seen in my life

[simple ore]

this is the way

in DM

[chilly viper]

ye

[balmy condor]

if it's not in simc

guess what

[upbeat magnet]

when doing double empowered garrote in aoe opener is it worth it to to use it on two enemies or just single?

[balmy condor]

it's not official

it's literally that easy

[serene basin]

ty, I've also asked in the pvp channel too

[simple ore]

depends on number of enemies, 5 target it doesn't matter for example

[balmy condor]

if we have supported, public APL

it's gonna be in simc

[gusty mirage]

it's being taken care of

[upbeat magnet]

ty!

[balmy condor]

anything else is experimental

and shouldn't be used in comparisons

I'm so fucking tired of people just making shit up as they go

because teehee number up

I saw a sim

somewhere

from a guyh

[errant swallow]

Guess who is playing Outlaw tomorrow?!?!?!

[balmy condor]

and the number was higher

SURELY

that means it's good

no

fuck you

it's not official apl

[dark token]

I think he copied old ptr apls or something from fuu sheet

No idea where it came from

[gusty mirage]

I love how soviet is refusing to read what I type

[drifting cloud]

this yannick guy sent me some cracked sims

cant trust him

[dark token]

I read what you typed

[gusty mirage]

It's being taken of bro, no need to egg on whispyr's rant

[dark token]

Thanks for taking care of it

[balmy condor]

fuck all these spreadsheet dipshits

god

[lucid rain]

I'm glad I'm just a mythic+ andy

I get to sit on the sidelines for stuff like this

[dark token]

I'm just commenting on the sim, not trying to egg him on lol

Unless me commenting is just inherently infuriating to him

Quite possible

But yeah people are really numbers focused now

[drifting cloud]

LESS THAN 24H FOR OXI PAL SPLIT

[dark token]

I just want proper information out for peeps

[drifting cloud]

HYPE

[simple ore]

big number good

[gusty mirage]

[blazing jewel]

oxipal lawd

[gusty mirage]

WE FOUND NON TANK TRINKETS IN OUR BAGS BOYS

WE'RE READY

[simple ore]

huge

[spice surge]

Wtf

Hes cracked

Check him pc

[dark token]

Holy shit sin beats dk

[merry raven]

o7 grapnel you were fun

[dark token]

We cracked

[balmy condor]

wow what a fucking surprise

[lucid rain]

cue thatsalotofdamage.gif

[indigo mulch]

DK are awful atm

[gusty mirage]

I can't wait to do tank dps @drifting cloud it's gonna be LIT

[ember mural]

[indigo mulch]

They are so undertuned.

[dark token]

Dk is actually fine it's just average this tier lol

[shy pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/phreak-league-of-legends-lol-gif-20688623

[gusty mirage]

I just press shiny buttons right?

[dark token]

People so used to them being on top

[gusty mirage]

that's how you play ret

right guys?

I should prolly ask bolas

[simple ore]

UH dk is down bad

[dark token]

That when they aren't they yell UNDERTUNED

[dark token]

Go look at last week's logs lol

It's fine

[spice surge]

DK simming without the legendary, sandbagging smh my head /s

[river ember]

Same with warlocks

[dark token]

And that too

[fallen forge]

is it bc of my mayo take

[river ember]

Locks don’t have a bis raid spec they doom the most

[timber pawn]

Is anyone noticing extremely low efficacy coming from Nelth Class Trinket in early testing

[simple ore]

idk if they're not scaling well with gear this season or if they're just sandbagging sims but their bis sims look very bad

[dark token]

It seems extremely high to me

[lucid rain]

literal curse of doom

[dark token]

That nelth trink is cracked

[drifting cloud]

dk on pull still better because of augs

[dark token]

Our dks went frost I think

[timber pawn]

Cracked as in not working properly @dark token ?

[dark token]

Cracked as in cocained

[drifting cloud]

assuming uh ofc, which not sure how it will turn out after they got buffed 3 days ago

maybe they will still all run frost

[timber pawn]

Interesting, I am seeing really shitty results with Nelth trinket over 10 test pulls

[serene basin]

just tested and it has something to do with the 10.1 2 piece (feel free to test urself just 2 be sure)

[dark token]

It's rng

[timber pawn]

very plausible

[simple ore]

taking 2p off lets you restealth?

testing on dummies?

[fallen forge]

what’s an APL? Just read whispyrs rant but idk what it means

[spice surge]

aberrus 2p procs keep you in combat yes

[serene basin]

I think the poisoned edge procs were putting me back in combat

[spice surge]

The text that tells the sim what to do

[serene basin]

ok cool ty for confirming

[simple ore]

ohhh ok that explains

ty both

good to know nelf wasn't complete grief then

[fallen forge]

so kinda like rotationally what the sim should do?

[spice surge]

Yes

[simple ore]

apl = action priority list btw

[fallen forge]

Ahh gotcha, so then what’s the difference bw something unofficial and official

[gusty mirage]

official is the one submitted to simc that the simulations would use

like on raidbots

unofficial are ones that are experimental or someone just testing stuff

[fallen forge]

ahh and he’s annoyed bc the spreadsheet sometimes uses random ass unofficial apl instead of the ones submitted to simc

[spice surge]

"random ass unofficial" in this case is likely just an old version of the official, but yes

[fallen forge]

Okay that makes sense tyty

Whispyr if u need a hug

Or a grilled cheese with mayo

Lmk

[simple ore]

when you say with mayo is that inside or on the outside

[fallen forge]

[runic hinge]

both

[fallen forge]

Butter on the outside, mayo on the inside

[simple ore]

whispyr don't trust this man

[fallen forge]

Shmeeps will vouch for me he made it too

He said it’s edible

[simple ore]

chicago style pizza is "edible" but it's still bad pizza :^)

[balmy condor]

boy I wish

the reason the PI is undersimming in that sheet is from an early PTR APL that never made it into simc

[haughty flicker]

edible and the worst out of 3 choices isnt high praise

[simple ore]

screenshotting this to send to raid lead thanks

[balmy condor]

I hate you

[simple ore]

ly2

[near valley]

[haughty flicker]

screenshotting this to send to raid lead thanks

[near valley]

All I've garnered from this is that I should be forcing my priest to PI me

[gusty mirage]

you're playing outlaw

[near valley]

Thnx Sin bros

[gusty mirage]

imagine getting less dps than a bm hunter from PI

rip bozo

[simple ore]

don't let oxi bring you down, get that pi

[spice surge]

Im getting less than tanks buddy

[fallen forge]

now now we don’t need to get into the details

[spice surge]

Get down to my level

[haughty flicker]

just say you'll play sin then swap to outlaw during pull

free pi

[near valley]

I was planning to play some sin at times so I could understand you better

[gusty mirage]

I like high apm lovers dw

[shy pecan]

Gotta be named solo

[hexed willow]

If you’re entering KB with SD and you aren’t in the pandemic window, do you clip garrote/rupture? Assuming neither are improved

[stoic bobcat]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Afenar's Group
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[fleet pagoda]

i'm dumb and not sure if i'm reading the hotfix from today correctly. is it saying those listed abilities still benefit from lethal dose and now correctly contribute to it? the way it reads sounds like it's making them not benefit from it but contributing instead

[simple ore]

first option yes

[near valley]

My megamind Sin brain says yes

[simple ore]

it's a good thing

[fleet pagoda]

🙇‍♂️

just making sure. the wording and my reading comprehension were going at it

[near valley]

Pretty sure clipping a stronger garrote and rupture is fine to do

But not the inverse

[hexed willow]

Yeah I’ve been practicing not refreshing improved either during pandemic. Just wasn’t sure on clipping. The target dummy has been my best friend

[oak eagle]

W Whispyr upload

[haughty flicker]

it seems we're spamming garrote in dm now anyway

so shouldnt have to worry about that

at least in opener

[hexed willow]

What do you mean by that?

[haughty flicker]

watch new whispyr video

+updated wowhead guide

[hexed willow]

ah shit new content leggo

[haughty flicker]

we spamming garrote>envenom on repeat in dm+sd

[lucid rain]

spam garrote during dm, not during sd

since dm doesn't occur every sd

[haughty flicker]

yeah ur right

every dm+dance not every dance

[hexed willow]

Time to unlearn what I just taught myself

[devout prism]

didja give up on outlaw?

[hexed willow]

Nah I like playing all available specs of a class

*that are fun

So was doing destro/demo and boomie/feral last season

[timber pawn]

Why is Nic of Time simming better than mythic raid dagger, anyone know?

[simple ore]

time strike

[haughty flicker]

bc timestrike is just extra stats for free

[quaint flare]

bc its good

[haughty flicker]

normal dagger with 1% extra damage just slapped on top for free

[timber pawn]

got it, appreciate it

[gilded oasis]

I wouldn't call it free

gonna lose my soul farming it

[simple ore]

dw it's just vault roulette

[drifting cloud]

my recommendation is just loot it

[haughty flicker]

just remember every time you step foot in lower doti

at least it isnt upper doti

[timber meadow]

what item do i craft this week?

[jade iron]

Does m+ end of dungeon version outsim max upgrade myth dagger?

[simple ore]

no, pretty sure it's still highest ilvl for mainhand at least

it might outsim in offhand though

[jade iron]

Tyty

[drifting cloud]

yeah dungeon drop is bis offhand

[dreamy elk]

Lethal Dose should no longer cause Crimson Tempest, Serrated Bone Spike, or Mutilated Flesh (from Doomblade) to benefit, but not contribute from its effect.

What exactly does this mean?

[dark token]

Those spells now both contribute and benefit

Before they were doing one or the other

[spice surge]

Those talents are now ever so slightly better with lethal dose, because it (should) work as expected

[dreamy elk]

Thanks!

[hexed willow]

Lower DOTI still has to deal with some annoying bosses too

Shit first trash -> boss is gonna be fun

[haughty flicker]

just pull all that trash and lust

ez

[dark token]

Tank will be clapped

What's the last boss of lower

Iridikron?

[haughty flicker]

yes

[gaunt sigil]

What is % loss for no WFT?

[haughty flicker]

its not fun not having wft

lets put it that way

[gaunt sigil]

Well

My guild has 3 preist but no enh

[haughty flicker]

yeah im currently trying to gaslight someone into going back to enh instead of playing dh

hopefully they get nerfed and helps me with it

[hexed willow]

We have 1 and they said I’ll always be in their group

I knew I was in love

[hexed willow]

Can I get one of your priests ❤️

[gaunt sigil]

If we get an Enh gladly

[fleet pagoda]

i feel better seeing other peoples' cursed raid comps

[rain mortar]

I can’t believe I’m going to get PI all tier.., we have 3 priest. I should get PI every single fight muahahahah

[timber meadow]

what do we craft this week if we use a naked spark?

[lucid rain]

boots probably

toxic thorn to be precise

[timber meadow]

coo thx

[blazing jewel]

@keen spruce you remember you gem sim meme

[spice spire]

[deft vault]

is there a command on raidbots to sim the runes we put on our weapon or do i have to sim 3 time?

[drifting cloud]

1g shitty tipper

give them 69g

[blazing jewel]

bro im not paying my guildies to click a button

[drifting cloud]

smh

[hexed willow]

I tip 420g every time

[deft vault]

!whispyr

[hexed willow]

My guildies deserve it, I ain’t figuring out how to do progressions

[blazing jewel]

we cooking

[indigo mulch]

[slate crown]

I'm doing my guilds, no comm or mats needed

also diamondcrafting is annoying because it can't be guaranteed and it requires greater insights to guarantee, it's fucking stupid that it needs greaters

[hexed willow]

Why so many?

[slate crown]

I have a 74% proc chance so I just tell people to send me tons of orders and I'll fill till proc,

[blazing jewel]

reasons

[hexed willow]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-of-the-rings-frodo-alright-then-keep-your-secrets-smiling-gif-26462584

[keen spruce]

yes

[blazing jewel]

cant forget these either

[fleet pagoda]

this guy sockets

[runic hinge]

socket dn

[random quarry]

Do we shiv before we death mark? So im trying to get opener down. Garrote, snd, ambush, mutilate (until 4cp+) envenom shiv dearhmark mutilate kingsbame + sd garrote envenom etc…?

[hexed willow]

Isn’t it shiv before KB?

[blazing jewel]

shiv after dm but before dance kb

[hexed willow]

And then so it doesn’t fall off during KB

[haughty flicker]

opener has also changed slightly, i'd recheck the wowhead guide and watch whispyrs video

[blazing jewel]

shiv debuff is 8s so you can use it before kb and fully cover it

[random quarry]

So do I envenom then shiv then death mark? Then refresh shiv before it falls during kb?

Thanks for help guys

[blazing jewel]

you want to envenom before dm to get the buff

[haughty flicker]

envenom>deathmark>shiv>sd+kb

[hexed willow]

Oh what when did that change

[haughty flicker]

recently

i refreshed and it was different

lmao

[hexed willow]

I could’ve sworn it was garrote SND

[blazing jewel]

small optimization was found

[haughty flicker]

yup

whispyrs new video goes over it well

[hexed willow]

Love to see it

[fleet pagoda]

the dance window and vanish/subterfuge window has changed too

[haughty flicker]

and some tweaks to it when you need it to be shorter or whatever

[random quarry]

Woah

[frigid dirge]

whats the avrge dps for sin in a dungeon above 80k you guys would say

[misty holly]

I just did some LFR with Bone Spike and oh gosh so disappointing. It seems worse than before the revamp even. 3% bone spike damage, 0.6% mutilated flesh.

[random quarry]

I have my pots macrod into death mark. Should I add them to my sd kb macro?

[fleet pagoda]

DM should be fine

[misty holly]

That shit was like 10% single target in Shadowlands, what happened.

[haughty flicker]

many patches and two reworks

lol

[oak sky]

it was only worse than venthyr/flag the entire expansion

[misty holly]

Yeah I played it all expansion because i didnt like flag

[haughty flicker]

based

[crystal crystal]

Is something wrong with Subterfuge? It doesn't seem to be consistently allowing use of Ambush for the 3 seconds after breaking stealth. Works sometimes, other times it gets grayed out after the first hit

[misty holly]

and it was still pretty good in 10.0, maybe not bis but within a percent

[spice surge]

It bugs out if you use a trinket (like bomb) during it

[haughty flicker]

do you have bomba macroed to something

[misty holly]

now it feels not even close

[oak sky]

and you're free to play it now if you don't like the optimal build now

[spice surge]

So you likely have your bomb macroed to either envenom or ambush if i had to guess

[crystal crystal]

Oh damn, yeah it's the bomb

D:

[spice surge]

Youre replacing the bomb fairly soon though so shouldnt be an issue

But ye, its kinda cringe

[crystal crystal]

Was confusing the hell out of me, lol. Thanks guys

[misty holly]

yeah I just checked some 10.0 screenshots, Bone Spike 5%, mutlilated flesh 1.3%

[finite yarrow]

if im just coming back to the game and have a 450 dagger, would first spark craft be the toxic boots?

[misty holly]

They are both doing 1/2 as much as before the rework

like wtf

it already wasn't good

why the nerf

[haughty flicker]

they didnt get nerfed, we just have better options now

[misty holly]

I mean, shouldnt that be taken into account with a rework

[haughty flicker]

plus the fact that most of sins damage is in burst windows now will hurt stuff like that

[misty holly]

to make different options at least in the same ballpark

[north jetty]

did the assassination opener get changed in the guide today? it was garrote > sd > ambush > rupture, but now it's garrote > ambush > rupture > mutilate > sd....is there a reason you'd do it one way and not the other?

[misty holly]

making previous, already subpar, options even worse after a rework is uhhh.. poorly done I would say.

[haughty flicker]

this way does slightly more damage

[abstract jacinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbINiYr3s48 I recommend the man himself

[north jetty]

thank you for th eresources

[oak tangle]

idk how i feel about garrote spam

[haughty flicker]

tbh feels like it flows better this way

[lucid silo]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[haughty flicker]

plus its only 3 globals every 2 minutes anyway

[oak tangle]

yeah but it's so dumb that a 1cp generator that is a dot, is a better choice than our designated generator

[haughty flicker]

meh

idc which button does what as long as it feels good

but i get the point

[oak tangle]

and what you mean 3 gcd's every 2 mins

[haughty flicker]

you only do the garrote spam when both dm and sd are active

i guess its one more time in vanish

but thats to refresh it

[fallen forge]

no poison or stealth???

[haughty flicker]

dw thats still there i just left it out

imagine using poisons as sin anyway though

[fallen forge]

ye fuck that

we stab natty

[hexed willow]

Why does it feel that way?

Tell me how to feel beli

[haughty flicker]

you should hate every boomkin

and feel pity for ferals

despite them being furries

thats how you should feel

[fallen forge]

im a former boomkin main i understand

[oak tangle]

why do you only use garrote with dm, and not just sd

[haughty flicker]

deathmark duplicates shrouded suffocation

so you're getting 5 cp during dm

and only 3 outside

[oak tangle]

ah yep

[haughty flicker]

whispyr goes over all the stuff in his new video

good watch

[oak tangle]

yeah i did watch, i forgot that it was dm doing the duplicating

[slate crown]

FYI All - I have updated the Kingsbane Timeline aura so that the Vanish and Tea markers are, by default, slightly delayed, just for better coverage chances (as vanish slightly late is better than vanishing slightly early and missing the last tick in KB, as mentioned in Whispyr's vid).
https://wago.io/8WWlvpYa9

I also pushed out a few updates tonight to the pack overall for those using it for updating proper pandemic timers on various dots. Happy raiding tomorrow!

[runic hinge]

Wish someone would garrote spam me

[balmy condor]

I got side tracked

Videos will be degen

[indigo mulch]

[balmy condor]

At like midnight

[indigo mulch]

The ST one wasn't bad tho

[balmy condor]

Get ready for EU to wake up to like 4 new videos

[drifting cloud]

hiya

[balmy condor]

[drifting cloud]

jokes on u im still awake

[balmy condor]

Okay well ryler wont be awake

[indigo mulch]

I'm awake? I'm european ;S

[drifting cloud]

how early are you planning to stream keys

[balmy condor]

Whenever servers go up

[haughty flicker]

so like midnight

got it

[keen spruce]

nice little 2 hour +28 brackenhide done

[indigo mulch]

ah only 2hrs

well done.

[slate crown]

So with the garrote env spam during deathmark, for the second / third deathmark if rupture wasn't cast immediately before dance, I assume we just swap one of the envenoms for a rupture during dance, yeah? So Gar Env Gar Rupt gar Env

[topaz echo]

is there a season 2 guide for assa? i am interested in whether i have to delay kingsbane for a second after slamming deathmark + shiv with s2 4pc tier set or not.

[drifting cloud]

so probably after I wake up

[junior aurora]

what is the red bar for on the timeline

[haughty flicker]

ye i had this question too actually

[junior aurora]

is that when subterfuge runs out?

[slate crown]

When dance runs out

yes

It is dynamic and will shift if you dance late for some reason

[junior aurora]

oh nice

[stiff kernel]

Whats simming as best single target spec rn?

[indigo mulch]

Unholy dk

[stiff kernel]

in the rogue world lol

[indigo mulch]

Windwalker rogue

[slate crown]

[drifting cloud]

outlaw if you wanna go purely by the sim number

[indigo mulch]

Outlaw is currently the highest simming rogue spec.

[stiff kernel]

Gross

[spice surge]

Outlaw, but like, with assa's bugs getting fixed all 3 rogue specs are in the top 5

Probably even top 4

[slate crown]

Why is it gross

[spice surge]

So

[junior aurora]

assa probably highest if you can scum your way to a PI

[slate crown]

you don't have to play it

like yeah it is gross don't get me wrong

[spice surge]

It doesnt really matter, play whatever you want

[indigo mulch]

What eleem said.

[stiff kernel]

Just not big on outlaw meme spec, I was just curious

[slate crown]

outlaw is gross, disgusting, bleahgh

thankfully you can just play waht you want

[eager holly]

gross

[indigo mulch]

I don't mind outlaw. i just dislike i have to see a wrist doctor after each raid while playing outlaw.

[dreamy elk]

I do have to say that bte chain procs are insanely satisfying, especially with blade flurry up. They basically have like their own version of sub's shadow dance burst windows now.

[haughty flicker]

berst

[dreamy elk]

Right, they don't have a big 2 minute CD so of course they're not going to hard burst like sin or sub. But they basically do bigger chunks of damage (relative to what they used to be) in short periods within subterfuge or shadow dance windows.

Just neat that they put an outlaw spin to it.

[exotic pulsar]

watch out, you could trip over some of them peaks

[hoary remnant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbINiYr3s48
@balmy condor Why do we want to Vanish Rupture in the opener and not vanish garrote?

[drifting cloud]

[topaz echo]

it depends on wheter you will overcap on combo points if you use garrote or not. if you will - use rupture, i guess.

[dreamy elk]

Compared to this pre .2, at least there's something to trip over.

[hoary remnant]

Ok so its more dynamic then set in stone?

[drifting cloud]

feels like you didnt actually pay attention to the video

[hoary remnant]

I didnt get it

but ok

sorry for asking

[topaz echo]

it should be set in stone if you don't mess it up

[marble hemlock]

looks like a profile of the roads where i grew up

[topaz echo]

but if you did - look at your CP

[hoary remnant]

its more dynamic but ok

[drifting cloud]

read the talent subterfuge

[hoary remnant]

I am aware of the talent

and snapshot

[indigo mulch]

I was wondering why i was only doing 850k kingsbane on st, then i realized i didn't have amp poison on my weapon 😦

[hoary remnant]

just garrote is way more powerful then rupture

[indigo mulch]

[drifting cloud]

he refreshes both?

[steel spire]

New videos to listen to at work

[haughty flicker]

at the end of your opener when you press vanish, your goal is to refresh rupture and garrote; garrote is the last gcd in vanish because then your improved garrote lasts longer

and you leave with 5 cp from the garrote ideally

[balmy condor]

We refresh both

Why would garrote for the 37th time and get an extra 2 seconds of garrote

When I could just like

Snapshot a whole ass rupture

[drifting cloud]

what do I do if im stupid and vanish on 0 cp

gar, gar, rup and cry?

ambush, gar, rup I guess

[hoary remnant]

Why this toxic?

You must have some next level poison 😉

[hoary remnant]

ty

[drifting cloud]

whos talking to you lol?

did you really take that personally

me using selfdeprecating humor?

[indigo mulch]

He legit even said "what if --> I <-- "

[haughty flicker]

this is still during dm so you'd only have to gar once

[mortal ledge]

sorry if this is known i looked to see but dont see pins or anything talking about it, caustic spatter is breaking cc-seems counter to how these cleave kind of abilities are normally intended to work right?

[haughty flicker]

so gar rup gar id assume

[haughty flicker]

you mean things like blind? if so cleave always breaks that stuff

[mortal ledge]

nah, sap

[haughty flicker]

sap is like blind

if its in range of a cleave it'll get hit and break

[mortal ledge]

is it? sorry its an alt so im not AS familiar, i always thought of it as a hard cc

[haughty flicker]

nah damage breaks sap

[mortal ledge]

my mistake then

[drifting cloud]

its basically a longer lasting gouge

or well .. blind like they said

[mortal ledge]

good to know, thank you

[upbeat tangle]

Are Sin Rogue Sims bugged? Spec ist cracked but simming kinda low... If so : what is the issue in those Sims ?

[cerulean nest]

new opener dropped lfg

[spice surge]

There are bugs ingame that are reflected in the sim

[dark arrow]

anyone got any good kingsbane WA? I have Afenar WA to track everything but I find its a bit small and for something that I need to closely track the duration remaining of like it I think having something seperate that I can have a easier time seeing during a fight would be handy.

[topaz echo]

this

[balmy condor]

You would gar rup gar

But troll on the MA window

But kinda doomed

I checked gar env gar too

But it was like marginally worse

Idk

The gar cp is so cooked

[haughty flicker]

mr whispyr do you mind if i direct you to this question

[indigo mulch]

Did you figureo ut how much p2 dps loss is? is it 5k? or was it more? The bug i mean.

[rain mortar]

Seems I missed something!?

[slate crown]

#assassination message Just to make sure you get the ping, Kuku messaged but didn't include u

[keen spruce]

i don't see a reason why that would be an issue

[rotund wagon]

does anybody else get an i cant do that error during opener(with mut and ambush bound on their respective stance bars) because the bar like doesnt update so it thinks youre trying to cast ambush a time or two but not in subter window anymore

[balmy condor]

Yesn’t. At some point you want to snapshot a rupture, but env during MA is big value so like kinda whatever either way

[dark arrow]

ty so much

[haughty flicker]

ye i'd assume it would just be the last spender in sd

[balmy condor]

Snapshotting rupture isn’t actually all that impressive

Cause the MA env value is gud

[slate crown]

Figured as much

[keen spruce]

my moustache is almost long enough to munch on

[haughty flicker]

this is why i dont trust ducks

[crude anvil]

I thought signet was our bis with branch is it pip now?

[slate crown]

May be a basic question but the tier set 4 pc can crit yeah?

[dark arrow]

I love these types of little bars for things that have a duration that I need to track. so much easier for me to use then a small icon with a number in the middle. idk why but these are just easier for my brain to process.

[keen spruce]

tf

[hoary remnant]

So either snapshot rupture or envenom both is fine during MA?

[slate crown]

So, added value on top of MA for envenom with the tier set

[haughty flicker]

ducks dont have moustaches

pick a lane

[balmy condor]

Signet bis single target but if you’re ever outside of single target it’s ass, pips is the next best overall

[keen spruce]

why not

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t make much of a difference either way

[slate crown]

Almost like "Progress bar" was designed with "Progress" in mind 🙂 🙃 Glad you like it. I think progress bars are neat for some things

[hoary remnant]

Ok ty

[indigo mulch]

I like big number. envenom uga!

[keen spruce]

tf is this

[dark arrow]

I grabbed something like this for outlaw so I know how long I have to use BtE without sending it on cd. its helped massively.

[drifting cosmos]

is "finishers at 4+ cp" the most updated way of doing things? I think i saw some of Whispyrs video from even 2 weeks ago still finishes at 5-6

[slate crown]

[balmy condor]

Finishing 4+ or 5+ is completely neutral

You can play the old 5+

0 difference

[runic hinge]

it means cheese omlette

[balmy condor]

Ah that’s a wa that /yells OMELETTE DU FROMAGE whenever an egg breaks on diurna

[indigo mulch]

[keen spruce]

ahh yes

[drifting cosmos]

oh copy that, thanks @balmy condor

[drifting cloud]

will come handy in 4months

[bold temple]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Afenar's Group
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[spice surge]

Its french for a cheese omelette, youre welcome

[keen spruce]

as long as theirs no mayo in it

[spice surge]

Does it like show a recipe

[drifting cloud]

youre swedish, how would you know ... sounds like youre lying

[indigo mulch]

Hey I'm Swedish.

[spice surge]

Hey i can actually cook nowadays

[indigo mulch]

I've prob made more omelettes than you can ever imagian D;

[runic hinge]

Cook what

[spice surge]

Eggs arent tasty so i never make omelettes

[hexed willow]

My omelette becomes scrambled eggs when I don’t have coffee 😦

[runic hinge]

breakfast chef?

[rotund oak]

u r so wrong

[haughty flicker]

wtf

[indigo mulch]

I've done most cheffing ;p I worked as a chef for 10 years before i became a web developer.

[abstract jacinth]

No no, I get it I don’t like eggs either

[spice surge]

resisting the urge to say deez nuts, but most things. I made some banging gochujang+honey ribs the other day

[runic hinge]

I did 8 years before I started at the USPS

[indigo mulch]

Man i miss korean food.

[hexed willow]

That’s awesome

[keen spruce]

[runic hinge]

yum

[drifting cloud]

sorry eleem I wasnt trying to diss your cooking skills, just failed at a language joke!

[hexed willow]

What’s your favorite thing to make Lazy?

[indigo mulch]

Fish.

I'm a huge fan of swordfish specifically. 😄

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/i-put-that-on-everything-gif-11454944

[hexed willow]

Can any fish go in an omelette?

[keen spruce]

-gochujang

[indigo mulch]

Why not? Just shread it 😄

[keen spruce]

swordfish gud

[hexed willow]

Ooo smart, maybe I’ll try that with some salmon

[spice surge]

Ah i see, but i can actually read most things in french

[indigo mulch]

gochujang is by far the best shit ever man

Its perfect for everything 😄

Noodles, meat, fish even soups 😄

[keen spruce]

[drifting cloud]

sacré bleu!

(yes I googled it)

[rotund oak]

👌

[lunar helm]

Don't know if someone replied to this, but you can break it out on its own and increase its size and place it wherever you want.

[hexed willow]

Didn’t someone here make a shiv -> tea timeline WA?

[runic hinge]

putain de noix

[bronze pike]

weewee

that means peepee in french

[indigo mulch]

I keep missing my damn tea window

its at 3s right? :S

nvm its 6s long

[runic hinge]

close to what i was going for

[dark arrow]

yeah I know, but didn't wanna mess up the WA as I often tend to have issues if I edit a WA I import then try updating it later. I'm not smart with that stuff and somehow break things and end up having to delete and reimport. Someone linked a even better one thats a really awesome timeline bar!

[indigo mulch]

putain de noix means damn nuts or something similar to that i think

[lunar helm]

Thats good

[hoary remnant]

We use Tea during Kingsbane windows never to get energy outside of cds or?

or atleast have one charge rdy in kb window?

[indigo mulch]

I remember hearing a french chef screaming putain in the kitchen at one place i worked at ages ago 😄

[keen spruce]

just have one charge

[indigo mulch]

one the cold side we had this french guy swearing in french and on the hot side we had this spanish dude screaming puta madre all the time.

[hoary remnant]

Ok not beneficial to run during opener with pi and aug buffs double tea so whole DM window?

[keen spruce]

it's not super giga important

[balmy condor]

Today we bowl much better

[keen spruce]

10.2 bowling guide when

glad you're bowling gud

[runic hinge]

[balmy condor]

Do this

Works every time until it doesn’t

[keen spruce]

i wouldn't since KB damage is so backloaded

[balmy condor]

[hexed willow]

Whispyr are you excited for all the questions here when sin becomes meta

[haughty flicker]

peak human performance

[drifting cloud]

wait is burning 2 tea in opener actively bad or just doesnt matter

[haughty flicker]

wow

[balmy condor]

Bro I don’t even like the questions here when sin isn’t meta

[keen spruce]

i mean idk why cook 2 tea

[indigo mulch]

What kind of copium are people vapin when they think sin will be m+ meta?

[keen spruce]

those are handy later

[indigo mulch]

gief.

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t matter

[sharp falcon]

someone signed you up to do it against your will, eh

[drifting cloud]

smth smth better for augs, let me feelcraft ok

[hexed willow]

Can be meta for raid

[balmy condor]

Yeah, I’m that someone

[sharp falcon]

alternative: masochist?

[balmy condor]

Loving the fatebound rename

[hexed willow]

Fatebound got a rename???

[indigo mulch]

Doubt.

[keen spruce]

[sharp falcon]

i did most of my renown'ing as assassin

[north granite]

@sharp falcon when is rogue getting buffed

[hexed willow]

I wish it did

[sharp falcon]

the last 3 months

of 10.2 dev

ok

[spice surge]

The real thing whispyr is excited about is all the lads coming in here after reset complaining assa was sandbagging sims because of the bugs, once they get fixed and assa is suddenly high up on the spreadsheet again

[indigo mulch]

Did you degen farm those flowers realz? :p

[keen spruce]

[hexed willow]

Fatebound sounds like something out of final fantasy

[rotund oak]

u did an amazing job for assassination man 💪

[sharp falcon]

i did not. Did you? 👀

[lunar helm]

We must live by the spreadsheet, the spreadsheet is all

[balmy condor]

I’m already fuming just reading this

[indigo mulch]

Absolutly not. I refused.

[sharp falcon]

you didnt refuse, you were just too lazy

[hexed willow]

Just wait till 2p gets fixed, can’t believe whispyr sandbagged that too

[indigo mulch]

I mean its in my name.

[simple ore]

why you gotta call me out like this man

I got renown 10 on an alt and couldn't take the seed grind anymore

[drifting cloud]

ah yes kush appearance at 7am, you can tell a raid is opening soon

[spice surge]

It makes my blood boil too, spreadsheet lads not my favourite

[hexed willow]

That’s all you need though

10 on an alt and then straight chilling

[simple ore]

best part is the inevitable nerf because of the whining after like a week or two :^)

[rain mortar]

I love the new opener. Can’t wait to mess it up in raid multiple times tomorrow but it’s still fun

[marble hemlock]

makes perfect sense imo. we simmed super well coming out of beta and got nerfed very hard before mythic. why would we do that again?

[lunar helm]

Or die looking at your bars/WAs lol

[marble hemlock]

i for one applaud whispyr

[simple ore]

ye but the degen grind was getting 18+ this week

[indigo mulch]

How much dps loss is the 2p n lethal bug in reality? Do you have any idea? D:

[marble hemlock]

he beat the system

[drifting cloud]

people wont have tier and the trinket now week1, were safe

[balmy condor]

Once the new profile gets pushed we’re at 246 with the fix

[lunar helm]

The way my luck works I'll either never get it, or only get it at low ilvl, lol (trinket)

[hexed willow]

Ah that’s fair, I think I’d hit 15 in the rogue if I used my tokens? But I’m just gonna wait till Thursday and pop them all then

[balmy condor]

Idk what it is without

[spice surge]

If assa gets nerfed we have to nerf outlaw as well, not because of their performance, but because zac promised me assa would get nerfed before outlaw

[balmy condor]

But 2 piece is a couple %

[simple ore]

246 is a good place to be at, not too high but still very good

[drifting cloud]

not too high?

😄 😄

[marble hemlock]

if assa gets nerfed now and outlaw in 10.3, that statement is still true

[hexed willow]

Isn’t that close to the top

[indigo mulch]

246 is still very high o_O

[marble hemlock]

246 with our damage profile is fucking bonkers

[dark arrow]

what macros are ppl running? trying to get myself all set up for raid tomorrow 🙂
I've seen Shadow Dance + kingsbane and Deathmark + battle pot. Any other useful ones?

[simple ore]

there are specs above it, I'd be worried if we were top like 10.0

[indigo mulch]

this

[spice surge]

He also said this tier specifically, but ye youre right

[marble hemlock]

10.2.7 then

[balmy condor]

It’s literally top 5 according to the current stack

[hexed willow]

Stack?

[indigo mulch]

Remember how good demo locks was early tier thanks to their damage profile.

[simple ore]

ye but not number 1 so we might last an extra week or two before the nerfs come out

[drifting cloud]

then you add fake aug and pi on details

[hexed willow]

Demo was good at the end of the tier too, and then they got broke

[drifting cloud]

get ready for funny numbers on thursday-friday when rwf go into the raid

[hexed willow]

But they’re still doing solid damage

[keen spruce]

okay

everyone

[balmy condor]

I wish I was delusional sometimes

[keen spruce]

go to bed

[balmy condor]

Unrelated ping

[keen spruce]

the faster you all go to bed the faster the servers come up

then too much content to speculate about numbers

[marble hemlock]

[drifting cloud]

my servers will be up in 1h regardless duckman

[marble hemlock]

you saying youre not?

[haughty flicker]

surely nobody will be rioting in the streets when they look at their spreadsheet and all 3 rogue specs are on top

[spice surge]

3 specs in the top 5 aint bad is it?

[balmy condor]

I’m lucid enough to identify dumb shit when I see it

[hexed willow]

Sub stays hidden

[junior aurora]

last time it happened they all got nerfed

[indigo mulch]

but my speculations!

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/sure-john-cena-are-you-sure-gif-5783187

[marble hemlock]

lucid. http://puu.sh/JUs9K/c4a825920c.jpg

[spice surge]

Its not really hidden, people just cant read

[haughty flicker]

im talking the non rogue riots

[bold temple]

on 2nd DM do we rupture as first finisher and then also again at the end with vanish?

[haughty flicker]

like when people in this discord start panicing when they see the word aug

[bold temple]

first finisher in KB *

[hexed willow]

Sub players can read?

[balmy condor]

My queen

[marble hemlock]

literally has lucid as his profile background

calls himself lucid

[spice surge]

Nah i meant people see outlaw at the top and hear PI is good for assa so it must also be good

[drifting cloud]

I believe ideally you refresh not long before you go into cds but might be wrong, flame me if I am

[spice surge]

And then they dont see that sub is actually up there aswell

[haughty flicker]

i genuinely dont get this actually

[indigo mulch]

Most raidleader has no idea. They will give PI to whoever does most in the raid cause thats the best usage of it.

[sharp falcon]

i suspect outlaw is oversim and ele prob loses enough from movement/mechanics that it probably is a bit too. Sin might be sneaky op, 👀 for sure

[indigo mulch]

Didnt you know?

[spice surge]

Because theyll think "why play sub when you can play outlaw"

[balmy condor]

So called “free thinkers” when the 2D girl smiles in their direction

[haughty flicker]

like i get the people who dont like dust outperforming non dust but everything seems to think sub is absolute garbage

[marble hemlock]

[drifting cloud]

@spice surge how would you rate sub in raid without enh

dont bother territory?

[spice surge]

https://tenor.com/view/big-trouble-if-i-speak-if-i-speak-i-am-in-big-trouble-speak-big-gif-23519858

[twilit hollow]

youre the only 2d figure i lose it for

[dark arrow]

I don't know how I feel about outlaw and sub with the changes. Outlaw works fine, its not too difficult, but i'm not a fan of the playstyle in general. Not really into the whole pirate thing. I loved playing Sub in M+ last patch but the changes makes it feel clunky. The current rotation from how i'm undertanding it basically over doubles the burst window which leaves a huge window to get fucked by a mechanic or something and throw your whole rotation to shit.

[spice surge]

But also assa is kinda cringe without windfury as well

[hexed willow]

Out of curiosity, what does sub’s playstyles have that differs from sin/law? Sin is the 2m burst profile, law is consistent

[grim tangle]

sin will look OP on wclogs with PI and sanguine blades + caustic spatter not reattributing damage to augs

[haughty flicker]

rogue without wft is kinda cringe

[balmy condor]

You know how bad my mental has to be that the first thought I had was “if I agree would people call me a sandbagger”

[marble hemlock]

sub is the same profile as assa, but more cringe

[hoary remnant]

Ok make sense. Just thought about doing it on pull. Some fights have some downtime where it might be worth. Need to test

[haughty flicker]

fitting for the weeb spec

[hexed willow]

Why cringe?

[spice surge]

Almost as much burst as assa (outside of BL during execute where assa does way more) but you can move the timings around without losing much

So if you need to burst at 90s you can

Assa can only burst every 120s

[indigo mulch]

So.. uhh why are people calling you sandbagger? I don't get it o_O What are you sandbaging? 😄

[drifting cloud]

thats just a wow thing for classes that dont have as indepth tc as we do

[runic hinge]

The sim dropped from bugs and people want it to say what it is if everything was perfect

[exotic pulsar]

I thought sandbagging was pretending your spec is shit in hopes of buffs

[marble hemlock]

sandbagging in the context its being used here, refers to purposefully keeping things down, i.e. in this case the sims.

the assumption is that if the sims are sandbagged, as in, lower than they should be, then the class wont get nerfed

[indigo mulch]

But isent that how simc always worked? It reflects whats in the game?

even if its with bugs.

[marble hemlock]

nah

[hexed willow]

So we get the choice of a 20s little bump, 1:30 large bump and 2:00 big bump

Love rogues

[marble hemlock]

it needs to be implemented, which often can take quite some time, as was the case with the trinket for example

[drifting cloud]

alot of classes have 1/5 of the tc work done on them as rogues

so things can appear alot less correct

[spice surge]

You can choose to not implement bugs because "theyll be fixed before release for sure"

For example

[bronze pike]

This

[spice surge]

And some things are just missed or overlooked sometimes

[bronze pike]

Not to mention slot of specs are just finishing up their profiles

[marble hemlock]

and you still need to tell the sim how to use their skills optimally, which is what large parts of the work amount to. painstakingly trying every combination and different sets of rules, to figure out which one gives the biggest number, which is then considered the optimal way to play.

[bronze pike]

A lot of work people do In their free time

So the least we can do is be patient

[hexed willow]

Patience is a virtue many do not have :/

[marble hemlock]

by limiting the scope of that process, and figuring out more improvements later, it creates this perception of someone purposefully sandbagging the sims prior to raid opening. which is obviously dumb as fuck, but alas, so is the vast majority of the wow community (present company excluded ofc) ((except outlaw mains))

[indigo mulch]

lmao

[bronze pike]

Based

[indigo mulch]

I dunno, i'd rather have the bugs in simc so it reflects everything on live.

[hexed willow]

How much of an influence does sims have on actual tuning though? Isn’t it mostly based on testing (internal and ptr)?

[indigo mulch]

Atleast then i know once it gets fixed i'll get a bump 😄

[bronze pike]

They don’t have much impact afaik

[hexed willow]

Besides theoretical popularity leading to more testing and information

[spice surge]

Also i dont think its unreasonable for rogues to be some of the latest profiles to be completed seeing as we had a rework, compared to some specs that literally only had a new tier set. But somehow people manage to complain about that too

[marble hemlock]

sims have a direct impact on that, though. if a class is well informed on release about how to play optimally, and thus gets very good numbers day 1, while another class has mediocre tc/simming to start with, then that well-informed and educated class will look better not just in sims, but also in warcraftlogs and overall performance

[bronze pike]

It’s funny cause warlock is just finishing up theirs

[hexed willow]

They’ve been optimizing it

The fact naked tyrant is the go to spec is horrifying

[bronze pike]

Lmao

Ya it’s cursed

[indigo mulch]

simulationcraft.org has a massive sway in public preception of a spec/class though.

[spice surge]

No point trying to shit talk any other discrd/tc community in particular. There are very different people and amounts of people interested in doing simc work for each spec

[bronze pike]

But point is people still doing sim stuff and it probably won’t be finished until later

[drifting cloud]

then you add the ease of execution that is somewhat common in assa and you can get funny looking week1 hc logs

now we also have aug on top of that, with its various hooks not working!

[bronze pike]

Like I’m pretty sure ret isn’t that completed yet

Havoc is def still finding new optimizations

[marble hemlock]

vast majority of tc work is being done voluntarily by people passionate about their class and specs. thats always to be commended, whether its people who literally slave 12+ hours a day for sometimes weeks, or those who only spend a few hours a week trying to get at least a few improvements going

[spice surge]

Thats the thing, its never finished

You can always improve it

[bronze pike]

Ye

[hexed willow]

Tbf they’re still commiserating how much ST they lose to AOE talents

And praying the legendary saves them

[bronze pike]

I’m well aware

[drifting cloud]

ethical dmg paladins

they can use the ✅

[hexed willow]

Oh no Snorter are you a ret

[bronze pike]

Main

Sad existence I know

[haughty flicker]

you had your fun for this decade sorry

maybe in 20.2

[bronze pike]

fun

Yes

[haughty flicker]

ret was very fun post rework yes

[marble hemlock]

at the end of the day, almost every reworked or thoroughly looked at class ended up being very good, and then tuned down after. idk if thats intentional, or just pure accident, but its not entirely surprising rogue and DH ended up being very good this patch

[bronze pike]

Herding fotmers who rolled ret was really “fun”

[haughty flicker]

you know you can like