assassination

[blazing jewel]

Oxis pfp is him grinding for mageblood

[gusty mirage]

I'm slowly losing it

[gusty mirage]

my friend I've had mageblood for like almost 3 weeks now

[blazing jewel]

[void mesa]

bro is this like all the televised trials

[turbid heath]

its been a minute

whats the latest

[flint tusk]

typical american brain.

[gusty mirage]

well I did just get yelled at for joining zoom

cause my notice said in person

but I'm sick

I don't wanna spread my germs

[void mesa]

Damn

Being yelled at for being responsible

Youre doing good Oxi, keep up the good work and dont listen to them

[turbid heath]

Links not working in the pinned section

Whats the latest build? 🙂

[clever sapphire]

m+ or raid

also still the same as a few months ago

[turbid heath]

both, not played for about 3 months now

Any updates on gear list etc? 🙂

[clever sapphire]

im pretty sure everything is the same as 3 months ago, wowhead is up to date so would just look there

[turbid heath]

ty

[true flume]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HJ7agzL4PfrMkw39#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=7

If anyone has a chance and does not mind looking over my logs to give me any tips i would really appreciate it. I feel like i should be doing alot more damage but not sure where im going wrong.

[turbid heath]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[void mesa]

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/HJ7agzL4PfrMkw39/1/7

Your 2nd sepsis, you entirely missed the 2nd imp garrote. Also a few downtime on your garrote overall. Missing chest enchant, not that great kill time, and huh, low proc on sophic

[true flume]

that second sepsis i fat fingered ambush

[void mesa]

yikes

That does cost a lot x)

[true flume]

yee it was rough

[turbid heath]

best crafted items these days?

[void mesa]

But yeah, overall that wasnt a bad log, just a few small things. But do get that chest enchant

[true flume]

i was looking at a top parse with a 2:45 Kill time, and he had more cast of envenom than me

and more mutulates

in almost a 30 sec lowe kill time

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JV7D1YCMKNgypZR6#fight=2&type=damage-done&source=3

[void mesa]

Similar haste?

[true flume]

ohh let me check

[void mesa]

1.4k more, not significant

[true flume]

i looked at resources and i think i actually did better management of it than he did

[void mesa]

Well, huh

It seems youre just playing slower, either downtime or else

Youre 9cpm lower than they were

[true flume]

i mean i had 1 beam that entire fight, but at most that would only be 3 - 4 globals

and does CPM matter as long as energy and combo is not waisted?

[void mesa]

It should not, but can explain the "more envenom in less time"

Cuz otherwise that doesnt make sense right

[true flume]

yea i mean its was a big difference too

he did have more ambush procs

in less time

[void mesa]

They also proc'd way more blindside so that may help yeah

21 vs 15 is huhh

[clever sapphire]

For assa? Toxic boots and wrist/belt or whatever you are missing with the toxic enchant

[true flume]

bro is just diffing me

[void mesa]

lmao, and he even had 54% sophic devotion uptime

gamba parse

[blazing jewel]

54%

Ban that guy

[true flume]

dude won the lottery. i had to pay,it like danngggg

[void mesa]

Hes getting babysat by simpvoker + high proc on blindside + sophic uptime

wow

Thats what it takes to get a #1 parse ladies and gents

[true flume]

he did have better elaborate planing than me, i need to start tracking that

[void mesa]

pls dont start tracking EP

Just playing normally should be fine at like 95%+

[true flume]

i only have 89% i was fairly low, and im usually this low most pulls

[lament aurora]

look refer to this #assassination message

[void mesa]

89% is kinda odd

[true flume]

sorry

85

thats supper low

[void mesa]

this is getting sus now

I never tho of it and I think I'm always sitting high

[blazing jewel]

I can’t catch you stinky rogue man

My rogue is jailed to alt raid

[void mesa]

I tho you were on bomb duty Scana

[blazing jewel]

I was

And now they put my feral in main raid

[void mesa]

is there a logic to it..??

[blazing jewel]

To take gear nobody needs

[lament aurora]

is it a required alt

also how long have you been in consequence

[blazing jewel]

Joined in vault farm

Semi required alt

[gusty mirage]

ngl it feels bad reclearing

and no one needs shit

like legit feels like a waste of time

killing 9 bosses every week is actually misery

[blazing jewel]

Do you guys do alt raid?

[gusty mirage]

no

well yes

but I don't have an alt I'm going to play

[blazing jewel]

If you split like half mains half alts for each raid

Makes it way better

[gusty mirage]

we bring in like 4-5 alts for first 7

[lament aurora]

this is why you gotta raid with your best friends

so every week is just hanging out with the boys time

[gusty mirage]

I'd rather play poe

ngl

lol

[lament aurora]

how are you not bored with a mageblood

[gusty mirage]

cause I actually like the game

[blazing jewel]

[gusty mirage]

last league I bought a 2nd mageblood because I got too lazy moving my mb between characters

[lament aurora]

[gusty mirage]

with the rue shield

SHEEEEEEEEESH

[blazing jewel]

They killed my favorite starter build

[gusty mirage]

what was that

[blazing jewel]

Poe hasn’t been the same

[gusty mirage]

if you say helix

I'm banning you

[blazing jewel]

Tr with the auto cast helm and quiver

[gusty mirage]

toxic rain

imagine

[lament aurora]

I used to be a build creator in poe lmao

[gusty mirage]

in 2023

[blazing jewel]

Kinda died as a starter when they made trigger spells cost mana

[lament aurora]

now I just play ssf after 2 weeks on trade

[gusty mirage]

you're mentally ill

[gusty mirage]

ngl after running like 40 gifts of the goddess this league

[blazing jewel]

Yea and

[gusty mirage]

SSF no longer off the menu

[lament aurora]

wait so its on the menu?

[gusty mirage]

it is most def on the menu

I played some SSF last league as bonerzone

[lament aurora]

can you be on the menu?

[gusty mirage]

only for you

don't tell scana

he'll get jealous

[blazing jewel]

[true flume]

is not too bad, it only takes 2:30 hours for a full mythic re clear. its also mad nice if you do sale runs

[gusty mirage]

it wouldn't be as bad if we didn't rotate inting every other week

wiping for 2 hours on sark isn't exactly fun

[blazing jewel]

It’s a bonding experience

[gusty mirage]

yep for sure

I get to bond with the volume slider on my spotify

[true flume]

lol

[lament aurora]

but think of every rekill another free chance to pull the lever

you will win

gamble

[blazing jewel]

I promised one of my officers that I wouldn’t get toxic until 4hrs after next reclear (said this on a Sunday)

Promise did not last

[gusty mirage]

idk I don't get toxic

I can't

because that's me on zskarn

I either do well or I int like a fucking idiot

there's no in between for me

[blazing jewel]

I don’t get toxic in raid

Only outside of raid

[flint tusk]

i won't lie i'd like to do a reclear up to our prog point. been extending for the last 3 weeks :/

[gusty mirage]

extendo gets real dark when you get hard stuck

[blazing jewel]

[flint tusk]

indeed. but thankfully each week we've got a new boss so far. so it's keeping people momentum up

plus i cheese the only mythic bomb dispenser

[vestal wren]

sick wow ui mod

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

almost looks like its a diffrent game

[woeful hollow]

anyone else testing new sin rogue and having massive energy problems around 40 seconds into rotation

[flint tusk]

PTR sin isn't about spamming something every GCD

[pure moth]

Id like to do a reclear as well. Having 1 kill on most fights cuz extending just seems awkward haha. It's like i have 0 mythic experience

[woeful hollow]

wdym

[violet jackal]

I hate how most guilds go on a long break, after the first kill. I just wanna keep slamming bosses every week

[flint tusk]

i mean you don't press an ability every global.
Especially with passive exsang you pool energy above 150 and plan using envenom before you build combo's again

the design is going bck to how assa used to be pooling energy etc

[flint tusk]

yeh i hear that. sadly my guild loves to fail at stupidly basic mechanics on older bosses. it's pushed away a few decent players and on a dead server that's a big bad

[woeful hollow]

should i go the passive over the instant exs?

[flint tusk]

yes active exsang literally sucks you dry and doesn't do half teh damage it should due to that. it's also likely passive will be the one that stays and active the one that gets removed

[unreal parcel]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[unreal parcel]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gusty mirage]

if you're looking for PTR talent builds, #tww-assassination message

that should cover all options

will have to be adjusted for new tree stuff that happened yesterday tho

[unreal parcel]

I was looking for the current sims; I didn't know the whispyr command was update for 10.2. Haven't looked at them in a while. 😄

Thank you though oxi!

[gusty mirage]

oh yeah, fuu's sheet should have them

the 10.1.5 tab ones should work

[clever sapphire]

Oxi confused by the fact that there are people interested in current assa

Understandable

[flint tusk]

Xd

[gusty mirage]

nah it's mostly the new browse channels feature sometimes likes to not work for people

and we've had people not be able to see the ptr channels

because discord likes updating things that worked perfectly fine for no fucking reason

[clever sapphire]

Well i didnt till i clicked on it in the pins

[flint tusk]

gives people who pay nitro a sense their money is going somewhere xD

[gusty mirage]

I can gromnak soundboard in every server

that's all the return I need for my money

[clever sapphire]

Soundboard is their best invention

Well upgrade

Not invention

[spice surge]

GET PUSHED OUT OF THE GUILD BUD

[clever sapphire]

Wrong wording

[gusty mirage]

and my personal fav:

[spice surge]

I love the clip where hes getting griefed on kazarra standing 10 miles away from the boss and a guy in his raid is telling him "god sends his hardest challenges to his strongest solidiers gromnak"

[gusty mirage]

LOL

idk if you saw clips from last night

but he was absolutely malding

it was 10/10

[spice surge]

This isnt from yesterday but last week

https://clips.twitch.tv/ExuberantCrepuscularHippoKappaClaus-lOKY6gDV6WKIDN24

[gray crest]

I miss raiding with oxi and having him use gromnak sound clips

That was the best

[spice spire]

He’s so real for that

[silk bane]

you really pumped in freehold in 2018 wanna come raid bud?

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Ambush/Mutilate Macro:
This should be seen as a "lazy" option, and is not recommended. It can be hard to control and requires a third-party macro addon to expand the games base functionality. We recommend ALWAYS keybinding ambush (either with a modifier, or an entirely different key)
You can macro Ambush to Mutilate using a advanced macro addon.
Further Explanation/Details:
#assassination message

[austere fulcrum]

can someone share consumable sim thingy

to check what rune is the best atm

[vestal wren]

it is justa text file

[austere fulcrum]

thank u so much

[vestal wren]

but you might only want to copy/paste one category at the time

the sim else gets fairly hard to read

[austere fulcrum]

yea i ll only check for runes

thank u 🤝

[vestal wren]

[midnight phoenix]

Hey guys whens it best to power pot? start of combat or before deathmark?

[gusty mirage]

depends really on the kill timer, but typically you pop it with deathmark in your opener

[midnight phoenix]

Ty mate

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

macro it into your deathmark

no reason really to cast it with other things

[lament aurora]

I can't get out of the habit of pre-potting

[sweet dawn]

Any quirky CD timings for Magmorax mythic?

[lament aurora]

depends on what group you soak in but not rly

[spice spire]

If you kill at like 5:35 you technically dm with second pot

Or 5:20ish

If you’re pushing kill earlier

[drifting cloud]

@gusty mirage

[spice spire]

Literally nothing

[austere fulcrum]

yo guys, im about to blame healer on sark progress but want to be sure, what is avarage healing p1 for a healer ?

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/big-trouble-if-i-speak-if-i-speak-i-am-in-big-trouble-speak-big-gif-23519858

[thorn fjord]

@gusty mirage @spice spire @blazing jewel any of you beautiful individuals going to blizzcon?

[spice spire]

I am not, Unfort

[thorn fjord]

Boo

Just found out I’m going today

[blazing jewel]

no sir have big bills lol

some of my guild is going though

I think around 8 of them

[thorn fjord]

I did too but my guild is sponsoring me lmao

[blazing jewel]

[gusty mirage]

absolutely not

[thorn fjord]

We’ve got close to 15 people going

[gusty mirage]

I have nothing nice to say to blizzard

[thorn fjord]

Aww I was hoping to joke around with you irl

[gusty mirage]

why would I give him $700 to go see them in person

them*

[thorn fjord]

I could really care less about the con… I’m looking forward to hanging with the guild

[gusty mirage]

I'd rather take that and fly down to miami and do ratchet shit with the boys

[thorn fjord]

Hell yeah dude I’m willing to bet @blazing jewel would be down for some shenanigans if you did

[gusty mirage]

I'm scared of scana

[thorn fjord]

🤣

[blazing jewel]

meow

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/georgia-bulldogs-gif-19085756

[gusty mirage]

rip dmx

[thorn fjord]

[ember mural]

[lament aurora]

half my guild is flying to my place in south florida to party and watch blizzcon via virtual ticket

instead of going to blizzcon

we are on the same wave length clearly

[thorn fjord]

Thats also really cool

I keep trying to get some of them to come down to Miami but they all hate FL apparently

Rightfully so i guess

[lament aurora]

yeah you can't blame them there

[oak sky]

Now theres no reason for me to go 😢

[lament aurora]

its actually crazy how many people I know from ravenholdt that also live in miami

[thorn fjord]

Who else outside of scana and I?

[lament aurora]

uhh @scenic nacelle and someone in OT i'm tryna remember

[thorn fjord]

I know DN is out in Orlando

[blazing jewel]

we will get @gusty mirage to move here

[thorn fjord]

He could make a killing as a lawyer out here tbh

[oak sky]

No shot oxi wants to take another bar

[thorn fjord]

And i hear the FL bar is easy

Btw i think tonight is finally the night @blazing jewel

17% pull on Tuesday

Think the lizard fuck finally dies tonight

[blazing jewel]

just get 40% sophic and crit everything

lizard is already dead

[thorn fjord]

its really annoying being top DPS under the locks some pulls and being like bottom 10 other pulls soley based off procs lolol

[lament aurora]

its awful

I blue parsed zskarn because 8% trinket uptime and 10% crits on my bomb dispenser and barely any sophics

and then rank 1'ed like 3 other fights because I got lucky

[blazing jewel]

zskarn is impossible to r1

need a dk to slappy hands

and proc a poison bomb on all of them

if those stars dont align why live

[lament aurora]

my zskarn is actually giga cursed

[blazing jewel]

if I got pi in alt raid

I would have had it

never lucky

3k off r1

madge

[lament aurora]

thats a pi diff

[thorn fjord]

I trust we kill AND I get a dagger off first kill

i wont be able to run Sin till reclear... They want me on sub for p2/p3 add stuff

[balmy condor]

@gusty mirage come m+ test

[gusty mirage]

at work still brotherman

[balmy condor]

I am

[gusty mirage]

how long is m+ testing open I'm about to leave work

[mighty gust]

What do yall prefer for ST raid fights as sin for trinkets. Bomb with beacon, fragment, or nelth trink?

[gusty mirage]

fragment is bad

don't use it

[balmy condor]

until monday

[gusty mirage]

oh jam

maybe I play some wow this weekend

[mighty gust]

Really? it's my highest on Sims.

[gusty mirage]

it's oversimming

[jaunty phoenix]

guys what is the spell id for sepsis

[mighty gust]

Thank you. Safe to just use nelth then? Beacon feels bad

[jaunty phoenix]

cant find the right one, it doesnt come up on my aura bar

[gusty mirage]

yea, nelth is more ideal cause double on use feels awful to play with/around

only thing that competes with nelth/beacon are dice or chromatic essence (with all buffs)

[thorn fjord]

Hell yeah dude

[woeful wagon]

what the priority of the echoing reprimand spenders? do i even wanna use it on rupture?

[woeful wagon]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/idtip

[spice spire]

Doesn’t matter. If you’re running out of rupture and land on one yeah that’s fine

I assume you mean st

Cuz you always er rupture during ic in m+

[woeful wagon]

ye mostly for st, the wowhead article didnt really cover er as much as i was hoping for. In aoe outside of ic is crimson tempest?

[spice spire]

You can also envenom going for pb procs

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

I keep thinking about if i should go

[thorn fjord]

Are you able to just drive out?

[oak sky]

yup

ill be back at college tho so i would have to drive down and stay with my parents for the weekend or something

[thorn fjord]

All the RH homies better be wearing a red bandana

[runic hinge]

Bluds

[true rapids]

because of the ilvl changes I shouldnt stress trying to get anything specific this tier to prep for assa next tier or should I try to aim for something more statted like the nelth ring?

[thick sail]

@balmy condor here's a +17 Brackenhide I just finished, with this completely cursed talent build (including 1/1 Twist the Knife)

If I'm reading this correctly, my Envenom uptime, WITH TTK, is 78%

I'm assuming the log counts in-combat only (if it counts out of combat then the whole study is moot)

[balmy condor]

I tried ttk on ptr earlier

my uptime went from 33% to 37%

from no ttk/bleed build

to a poison build with ttk

looking through the bosses on a 23 black rook hold

I had about 75-85% envenom uptime

on bosses

with no ttk

during combat on trash I was at about 60-64% on envenom

that went up about 5-6% with ttk

so based on my comparison on PTR we're looking at a total gain of 5ish%. Let's call it 6%

so total across this 37 minute dungeon

I would've had 2 minutes of envenom uptime more

poisons are doing a total of 10% of my damage, tier set is doing 1.5%

I'll call it 12% of my damage from poisons/envenom uptime

so just on paper, if we want twist the knife to be any good, napkin math would need to show that 6% more envenom uptime can move my 12% of damage far up to compete with other talents

it sure as hell didn't in my key

but we can do some quick math

I had a total of 4,253 hits that could've applied poisons, half of those being melee's, a third being fan of knives, and the rest being random mutilate, bleeds, envenom, crimson tempest, etc

we have 6% more uptime on a 21% application increase to that

[wheat lodge]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[balmy condor]

so we got 1.26% more applications

[storm forum]

using my powers for evil tonight

PIing our assa rogue

[balmy condor]

I think you see where I'm going with this, 1.26% more applications

ain't moving the needle

would be about 100 applications more

[bold drum]

https://tenor.com/view/so-true-gif-24068595

[runic hinge]

You move my needle, if you know what I’m saying

[balmy condor]

[tired terrace]

Hey guys anyone willing to help me figure out what I'm missing to squeeze in that additional punch?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ny4vcBPkYtjbWDKR#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=14
https://wowanalyzer.com/report/ny4vcBPkYtjbWDKR/13-Heroic+The+Vigilant+Steward,+Zskarn+-+Kill+(4:16)/Skilian/standard

Seems like I'm mostly doing things correctly (I misclicked envenom once at 3 cp which is a really really rare thing for me to do and is truly a silly mistake to make but this isn't the sole cause for my low damage ranking percentile).

Would casting an additional vanish instead of syncing vanish with deathmark make a significant difference in my overall DPS, would that be a minor gain, or did I actually do the correct thing and wowanalyzer doesn't take this into account?
I know for single target my stat priority could be slightly adjusted to help - I need a little more haste.
I also understand that I'm missing the OP trinket from Zskarn which would make a big difference in my overall dps ranking.

I started playing this rogue 2 weeks ago so I'm still pretty fresh. There might be some core special nuance that I'm missing which would make me do a lot more damage - one thing that I'm thinking is that maybe I'm too hasty to cast evenom and I should be waiting for the pandemic window for the envenom buff unless I'm at risk of capping out on energy or if I will waste CP by NOT casting evenom (e.g. at max CP but garrote is gonna expire on target and I am not in envenom pandemic window I would still cast envenom because the garrote cast would not generate any CP).

[balmy condor]

the log you linked you didn't use a second shiv in your opener deathmark

[tired terrace]

yeahhhh I remember fucking that up too but i didn't remember if it was this fight or the rashok one that I fucked that up on

[balmy condor]

you also could've held the 1:30 sepsis for about 10 seconds, which would've covered the 2 min deathmark, and then used vanish on cooldown for uptime, which would've gotten you an extra cast

but that's pretty minor

[tired terrace]

that mistake + a couple of the other minor ones doesn't feel like enough to make me parse a 73% though - I'm wondering if I am messing anything up egregiously in my normal rotation that is causing my damage to suffer throughout the fight

[balmy condor]

your second deathmark didn't have 2 shivs either, usually that would line up if you're holding shiv casts properly

[balmy condor]

well the reason you parsed a 73% is because your gear is garbage

rotationally this is fine

there's very small min-maxes you could've done

but nothing that's an actual mistake

but at end of the day you're 439 at the end of a raid tier doing a 4 minute heroic kill

so

you're shit out of luck

you're not going to compete with rogues 10 ilvl higher than you killing it twice as fast

just not possible

[tired terrace]

hahaha all fair points - I appreciate you taking the time to take a look at the log + offer input, I know you're very respected around here and I have watched several of your videos in the last couple weeks while learning the class 😛

[balmy condor]

no worries, like to help out :P

you're playing it well

I wouldn't really worry about the parse

[tired terrace]

yeee mostly was looking for confirmation that there wasn't anything special about the class that I'm missing - with balance druid which is my main class there are such things that can really make a difference in > 10% overall damage by doing them correctly

[balmy condor]

yeh aside from sepsis timings right now there's pretty much nothing

[tired terrace]

now not shiv'ing twice in the opener + sync'd with deathmark does seem pretty important

[balmy condor]

you pray for sophic, pray for class trinket

and then hope the kill time isn't bad

and gg you parsed good

[balmy condor]

depends on what "pretty important" means I guess

[runic hinge]

Also there’s like 500 parses for heroic rn. There’s just not a lot of people to compete against so it’s pretty hard to beat people

[tired terrace]

in general do you want to hold sepsis for 1:40 unless you confidently know that you will miss some sepsis uptime at the end of the fight?
e.g. if fight is gonna only last till 3:10 or close to that then you wouldn't want to hold becuase you would miss some sepsis uptime at the end of the fight.
But if you know fight will probably be around ~4 minutes then holding sepsis that additional 10 seconds is a good idea?

[balmy condor]

mightve been able to get like 2000-2500 dps out of getting the shiv on both of your deathmarks

but eh

[balmy condor]

it's mostly just you want to have improved garrote for your deathmark as a top priority, and then you start shuffling cooldowns around to maximize uptime

[tired terrace]

and then does it line up so that you single shiv the 2nd sepsis and then are able to double shiv the deathmark?

[balmy condor]

https://youtu.be/Gc7Ag1r2tjc I have this thing on planning out cooldowns that goes over the shuffling very generally if you haven't seen that one

[balmy condor]

well it should line up because that's how the hold works

you hold your shivs, unless it's sepsis, deathmark, or you're overcapping

so with the 2min deathmark

you're basically capped on charges

use one on sepsis

[tired terrace]

yeah I did see that vod btw - I appreciated you lining it up musically coming from that type of background myself hahahahaha

[balmy condor]

and then by the time you're in your deathmark

you use the other one

that one runs out

and the second charge comes back

[tired terrace]

in pugs not understanding how long the fights will actually last makes that difficult to do though

[balmy condor]

yeah it does

with heroic kills being so fast

I think it's basically a given that you can hold the sepsis every time

if it's 4 minutes

you're only getting your 2 min deathmark

so you can hold that deathmark for the 3 min sepsis

and then vanish on cooldown

just making sure the sepsis casts cover the deathmark

[tired terrace]

haha yeaa all true - I'll definitely be planning CDs for when I bring this guy into mythic alt splits in a couple of weeks and probably will have much better results (still probably will be held back by gear though)

[balmy condor]

[thick sail]

@balmy condor I think the math you missed in your calculation is that the increased poison application chance doesn't just increase your poison damage. Assuming you're using DTB, poison application chance also increases uptime on Crippling Poison (makes melee trash a little safer), Atrophic Poison (makes all trash a little safer), and assuming you're using Amplifying Poison, as you should be, it also increases the rate at which the Amp buff stacks to 10, which increases the bonus damage to Envenom

So ignoring the utility outlined above about nonlethal poison application to trash, you also would need to calculate the added rate at which Amplifying Poison is being applied with TTK versus the lower uptime in the same spec without TTK

I have no idea how you'd go about calculating that, it doesn't sound easy

[upper timber]

Is Sporeloak worth losing my toxic embelishment over for prog?

[drifting cloud]

no

[static glacier]

If you’re playing solely for the kill atm? 100% yes

[static glacier]

Someone progging atm won’t have any dps checks with the gear avaliable

[spice spire]

Haven’t touched sark yet. But I can say with 100000000% certainty that before sark it’s trolling to take a sporecloak

[static glacier]

I ran sporecloak for sark prog only, just wanted it dead asap so I could escape Aug prison

[drifting cloud]

playing sporecloak on aug is not comparable at all

[static glacier]

Aug is exceptionally tanky

[spice spire]

Rogue is insane

Feint is literally insane for so much

[static glacier]

How do I explain this, sporecloak isn’t only needed if you’re scared of death, it also makes you need significantly less healing, letting others receive more attention

Issue with it is you need to swallow your pride if you use it

Tbh unless there’s any point in this raid you can’t make a dps check with everyone alive the argument for everyone using sporecloak holds

[drifting cloud]

thats not really how healing has worked this xpac

[static glacier]

Kinda how healing works in general

Sporecloak stops you ticking down when above 70%

[upper timber]

Thank you

[spice spire]

I received least healing tonight. (Granted echoes xd) had 12 sporecloaks

Is it good for rot? Sure. But mitigating the big hits is like the best part of rogue’s defensive move set

And that’s where the danger lies

[static glacier]

All I’ll say is

Is the 1k dps from a patch worth, that’s up to you and your guild to decide

I think forcing people to use spore cloak is cringe

But it is optimal if you’re progging this late

[drifting cloud]

it is definetly not optimal

[upper timber]

Well we are progging Sark, kind of only started this week

[drifting cloud]

it is just doable

[static glacier]

How’s it not optimal? My guild had to hold dps on p2 sark

And we’re like 600

The fight doesn’t have dps checks anymore

Since nerfs

[spice spire]

Optimal is using all your abilities correctly

[drifting cloud]

you should tell that to all the guilds that I see kill the boss slower than 7:30 on logs

all of those would be wipes a month ago

[spice spire]

Yeah 6:42 rashok kill timer :^)

[static glacier]

They’re having deaths / people completely clowning gameplay

[spice spire]

Also it’s 4k dps

[static glacier]

A patch isn’t 4K dps

[drifting cloud]

its closer to 4k than it is to 1k

[mighty pine]

yargh

[spice spire]

I’m sorry 3 and Change

[static glacier]

You’re telling me a single armor patch is 3.5k ish dps

[spice spire]

3.3k for my shitter toon :^)

[static glacier]

Compare it on main, topgear it vs spore

You’ll lose like 1-1.7ish

[spice spire]

I literally just inserted a 447 piece of gear into my top gear?

And did it with and without?

[drifting cloud]

sporecloak doesnt give you dps why would I need to compare

just take the patch off lol

[spice spire]

Yeah?

[blazing jewel]

are you actually arguing in favor of sporecloak

[static glacier]

Same stats as sporecloak the

[static glacier]

Ye actually am

[blazing jewel]

bro you can 2 heal sark

you dont need sporecloak

[runic hinge]

[spice spire]

It’s incorrect to do it as a rogue like I’m in shitter gameplay central

And if you just press defensives well

You don’t die nor require a ton of healing

[static glacier]

Idk as far as I’m concerned anything that saves even a single wipe on prog is worth

[spice spire]

[static glacier]

As I said it’s your own choice, I said my arguments and those against have said theirs

[blazing jewel]

nobody dies on nelth/sark to rot you die to mechanical failures that cloak doesnt fix

[spice spire]

Cloak of shadows fixes it checkmate idiot

[blazing jewel]

sporecloak will save us when bomb 2 thinks hes bomb 3 for sure

[static glacier]

Cloak fixes death from 1-2 people going down accidentally and nuking the raid in p3 when you don’t have cloak due to hole soak

Granted I’ve not made cloak on rogue since boss is on farm

[runic hinge]

Isn’t that mechanical failures

[static glacier]

Yes 100%

I can’t expect everyone to play perfectly though

[blazing jewel]

okay turn monitor on or craft spore cloak

[drifting cloud]

sark has plenty of room for error thesedays

[spice spire]

Yeah I’m not one of those people you have so much freedom to avoid this tho

[blazing jewel]

not even sure what you mean by nuking the raid by going down in p3

[drifting cloud]

whats next, stamina enchants, gems?

[spice spire]

Dog I literally click sprint

[blazing jewel]

the dot you get from someone going into the down phase does nothing now

[static glacier]

Honestly consider the situation of the person asking

[drifting cloud]

yes even in their situation

[spice spire]

Yeah someone who doesn’t know that cloak is bad

[drifting cloud]

you dont play spore as a rogue

[spice spire]

For rogue

[drifting cloud]

im sorry you dont udnerstand that

[static glacier]

It’s over world 1k clearly there’s mechanical errors

[spice spire]

Asks

[static glacier]

Would you believe wf raiders talking about this then over me?

[drifting cloud]

or maybe theyre just average but they raid 6h not like you can know

[spice spire]

Wf raiders where?

[static glacier]

Gimmie a moment

https://youtu.be/F1GBVF1nz64?t=1376 from 22:50 to 27ish

[spice spire]

BecUse I 10000000% don’t believe you’d be dense enough to use a “they used sporecloak for wf raiding” when they were 5+ ilvl below average Raider hitting it now and all play mechanically at the top % of their class to someone whos 447 trying to get wr 1.4k sark

[static glacier]

Can you remove the embed

On phone

[spice spire]

You can by <> the link

I unfortunately can’t edit for you 😦

I have to be orange for that

[static glacier]

Cheers

[static glacier]

Anyways have a good night, woke up like 20 mins ago middle of the night, back to bed I go. I’m sure you’ll understand what I mean after watching the vid

[spice spire]

I’m legitimately 2 minutes in and it argued against all of your points. Haven’t even touched sporecloak.
Still crit phial

[drifting cloud]

theyre just talking about rage and sark cloak, literally half a sentence about sporecloak

lol

[static glacier]

Agree to disagree then, in my mind if you’re progging while overgearing the fight extra damage is meaningless and all you need for the kill is to minimise wipes to deaths

[drifting cloud]

pretty sure you need to almost always reduce the boss to 0hp for the kill

[static glacier]

Who tf is ever hitting the enrage

Without like 7 people dead

[drifting cloud]

I dunno, feel free to link your guilds % progression on sark

and we can compare I guess

[static glacier]

If you care to continue this in a few hours when I wake up dm me on disc. I need to sleep

[spice spire]

Also think it’s hard to argue against an entire discord who progged on rogue when you didn’t at the end (idk what your situation was)

Get some rest homie

It’ll be here

[balmy condor]

Yeah except it doesn’t do any of these things. Crippling and atrophic are like double the duration of envenom, you apply them once and they basically refresh themselves with a stiff breeze.

Amplifying sure, yeah, I might get one amp’d envenom extra in an aoe pull where I’m not envenoming regularly. But is that really the cope we’re gonna do? That’s some edge case of an edge case type shit man get real

[drifting cloud]

even back in June our healers were like the 4th healer barely does anything on sark outside of p1

better use sporecloaks in september

[blazing jewel]

as soon as the nerf to the main dot happened

sark healing requirement outside of p1 is gone

[drifting cloud]

when they overnerfed the dot and let it stay

[spice spire]

Like I said, can’t speak for sark yet.
But there’s literally been nothing where I didn’t have an answer to the solution. Half the pulls in echoes I don’t even need to touch health pots

[drifting cloud]

was donezo

[blazing jewel]

yea

it was weird because p1 still hurt

but nothing else

made more sense when the p1 nerfs happened

[drifting cloud]

pretty sure people posted math how rasz had a higher healing req or something

[blazing jewel]

I thought it was kurog lol

[drifting cloud]

oh wait maybe it was kurog

[thick sail]

But like, what about a spec that just spams Fan > CT in AOE and doesn't take Bomb or the poison talents, and thus isn't slamming Envenom on trash?

Like yeah, in ST you're right, TTK is never going to be good. But with CT in its current (pre-PTR) form, we should absolutely be spamming it in M+ aoe, ergo for a non-DTB build it has serious value on every non-ST pull

[balmy condor]

Well if youre spamming CT in aoe you’re an idiot and none of this matters

[thick sail]

It allows you to toss in an Envenom every so often to maintain the buff, and then continue your AOE trash rotation to maintain good poison uptime

[blazing jewel]

ct has no initial hit anymore

you dont spam

[thick sail]

It's almost like I typed

In its current

Pre PTR form

[balmy condor]

I didn’t do the math in current

I used ptr keys

To prevent this argument

Because yesterday you were talking about dtb poison reduction and 1 second less on envenom

So we’re eliminating all of that nonsense

Even in non-ptr CT

Spamming it often isn’t the answer

Most people are spamming envenom on live right now anyway

[thick sail]

What's the rationale for that on M+ trash

Versus CT

[balmy condor]

Poison bomb

Prio damage

Using the 4 piece tier set

[thick sail]

Right but what if you don't have Poison Bomb

The 4 piece tier set affects CT

Or are you talking PTR again

[balmy condor]

Then you’re a clown

[thick sail]

I haven't looked at the PTR

Tier set

[balmy condor]

The 4 piece is nature damage after Deathmark it affects poison bomb way more

Unless you’re gonna start arguing that a 40% buff to 20% additional damage from the 2 set is relevant

[thick sail]

So you're saying that on live, doing M+ without Poison Bomb is just objectively incorrect

[balmy condor]

Yes

[thick sail]

Because I have definitely looked at the top 10 profiles of the highest rated Assassination rogue talent builds and 1 or 2 of them don't use DTB

So like

[balmy condor]

Yeah

That’s wrong

[thick sail]

That seems very misguided, to say the top 10 best rogues with the highest ratings in the world are wrong

[balmy condor]

It’s big aoe pad for fun

[drifting cloud]

assa is like bottom 2-3 m+ spec atm, the nr10 assa rogue is closer to me in io than to title

lol

[balmy condor]

Brother not to ego or something I’m the one that tells them how to play

You realize

That they’re asking me

But yeah what even is the top 10 assa io right now

[drifting cloud]

3170

XD

[blazing jewel]

im like stunlocked at the top 10 sin rogue comment lol

[thick sail]

I think it's 3000

[balmy condor]

Highest log I could find is a 23

[sullen gyro]

High Rio players frequently don't play their spec correctly

[thick sail]

Or so

[balmy condor]

Which is yikes

[blazing jewel]

I havent done keys since the .1 patch

and I almost had that io

[thick sail]

I thought it was a 26

[spice spire]

Dog they’re closer to me than title 💀

[drifting cloud]

youre prob higher than me

[spice spire]

I haven’t touched a key above an 18 since like

[drifting cloud]

how can you compete

[spice spire]

June

Oh fuck

Real shit

Wait I got this tho

[sullen gyro]

If you can get within 90% of spec performance that's good enough to time 26s if you know the dungeon

Especially when you're getting carried by spriest aug

[blazing jewel]

why are we even talking sin m+ optimizations

actually press N and wait for the patch

[thick sail]

I'm trying to hit 2500 before the patch

[balmy condor]

Because he’s arguing for ttk and refusing to believe any math or logic I throw at him about it

[thick sail]

I am 96 away

[blazing jewel]

yea

press N

[drifting cloud]

fair fair

[thick sail]

Oh Whisp

[drifting cloud]

well technically my assa rio is 0 I guess

[balmy condor]

If you’re about to say some dumb shit please don’t

[thick sail]

The Poison Splatter talent, what's the rationale for it only working with Deadly Poison

[balmy condor]

????????

[blazing jewel]

l m f a o

[spice spire]

I haven’t ran a BH in legit 4 months

[thick sail]

Wait but seriously

[balmy condor]

It works with deadly amp instant wound poison envenom kingsbane and vicious venoms

What are you smoking

[thick sail]

What

[sullen gyro]

I'm assuming they mean to activate it with mutilate

[sullen gyro]

And it's just deadly poison will always be on the target you're hitting

[thick sail]

Yeah the activation clause

Mandates Deadly Poison

[blazing jewel]

bro aint no way

[balmy condor]

I….

I’m stun locked

[thick sail]

Okay hear me out

[balmy condor]

No

I won’t

[sullen gyro]

The damage that deadly poison does mandates deadly poison

[thick sail]

You create a build where you want to use Caustic Splatter

But not DTB

You want to talent into Amplifying Poison

You literally cannot do this

Why

[blazing jewel]

or you dont

[sullen gyro]

If you want to use spatter you want deadly poison

Because it does the most damage to splash with spatter

They are inherently linked

[balmy condor]

Yeah what if I want to play around carnage and don’t take improved garrote bro sounds good let’s do it

[drifting cloud]

Im still waiting for a good build with vendetta

[balmy condor]

What if I wanted to play m+, without crimson tempest

Then what

[thick sail]

That's not the same. That's suboptimal, not 'the ability no longer works at all'

[balmy condor]

Bro your ability to think reasonable is no longer working at all

[sullen gyro]

It's not the talent tree's job to make you read your abilities

[balmy condor]

Do you hear yourself

[drifting cloud]

for a selfproclaimed casual player youve put way too much thought into this

just ctrl c wowhead build and press buttons

[sullen gyro]

If you can't read caustic spatter and see you want to pair it with your highest damage poisons

Then that's a you problem

[balmy condor]

You want to take a build, where you build into poisons

And then not take poisons

??????????

[thick sail]

Well no

Just like, maybe not DTB

[balmy condor]

Okay

So no poison bomb then?

[thick sail]

Poison Bomb is fine with it

[balmy condor]

Okay, but if you take poison bomb, dtb is 1 point

[sullen gyro]

You're going out of your way to make a bad build

[balmy condor]

It’s the next node

[sullen gyro]

Then being surprised it's bad

[thick sail]

But DTB now has a downside, right

[drifting cloud]

yeah the downside is I have to read this convo at 7:30am

[balmy condor]

Yeah you get twice the poisons, but 30% less

That’s 1.4x the poisons

[thick sail]

Right but let's say you specifically need to stack Wound (for some reason) as much as possible.

If you take DTB

You'll certainly apply more poisons

[balmy condor]

Dude you are not a real human

[thick sail]

But less Wound

[austere fulcrum]

I think it is intentional at this point

Cant be real

[thick sail]

It's not, I am 1000% serious

[sullen gyro]

If you ever apply wound poison your damage is already irrelevant

So who cares if a talent doesn't work?

Like you're sacrificing way more than 1 talent point of damage

[thick sail]

But wouldn't a much more elegant solution just to have Caustic Splatter just say "your lethal poison"

Instead of "Deadly"

[balmy condor]

If you’re using wound poison you’re already -4% dps

What’s the point

[sullen gyro]

And by your argument what if you have instant poison

[balmy condor]

You’re going into a hypothetical edge case that would never happen in any gameplay

Like

What the fuck

[sullen gyro]

It's a button you can press that doesn't apply a debuff and now spatter doesn't work

[balmy condor]

Do you not realize what you’re doing

Are you reading what you’re saying

[drifting cloud]

sanguine black rook hold 10.2 whispyr

[balmy condor]

Thinking about it

[thick sail]

I mean I've applied Wound in M+ before, when I was new to this season, doing like +12, learning, when I was in bad groups and we'd run out of kicks and the one dungeon, what's it called

Dragon Soul one

With the packs that do greater heal

[drifting cloud]

well correct play would have been to not do that atleast as this spec

[thick sail]

I just don't see a compelling reason why Caustic Splatter shouldn't just say Lethal Poison

[sullen gyro]

You're conscious of that enough to use wound poison but not kidney

[drifting cloud]

if a group of 5 people cant stop a heal just wasnt meant to be

[thick sail]

Or gouge

Which I was talented into but too dumb to use due to positioning and panicking

[sullen gyro]

Or kick blind vanish garrote

[thick sail]

I have since learned, and put it to an appropriate keybind

But

Vanish Garrote only works if you talent into Iron Wire

Which

I was not at the time

[balmy condor]

My head hurts

[thick sail]

I now have Dance and Iron Wire which feels great

Anyway

Caustic Splatter

Lethal Poisons

Makes sense in my brain

[balmy condor]

Many things make sense in your brain that shouldn’t

Idk if I trust that

[austere fulcrum]

So u play with dance atm on keys?

[thick sail]

It's such an easy change

[drifting cloud]

think you can go back to unbinding gouge

its not what it was in sl

[thick sail]

Oh, another thing, for people who do keys

I've definitely cast gouge on non boss enemies winding up abilities

Are some mobs just totally immune to gouge

I hear the noise but they don't stop casting

The gouge noise

[balmy condor]

Yes

The same way mobs are immune to stun

[thick sail]

That is poop, but good to know

Whoever decided to swap IC's and Sudden Demise's locations in the PTR talent tree is an actual genius btw

That allows a lot more build freedom

Than having IC gated behind Scent of Blood like it is on live

Oh here's the other reason I think Caustic should say Lethal (sorry, my old brain works slowly)

Since PTR DTB reduces the individual proc chance of Deadly from 30% base to 21% -- as I think Whispyr pointed out before -- this means the chance of being able to start proccing Caustic Splatter is actually worse when you talent into DTB

Which is just a feels bad when you're taking an ultimate capstone talent

So the solution, again, just have Caustic say Lethal Poison

[drifting cloud]

please stop arguing semantics already holy shit, if youre playing assa and you dont have deadly on you have bigger issues than wording on a talent how can you be so stubborn about this

[thick sail]

It's not semantics, it's math. DTB makes Caustic proc more often, but it can't START proccing unless Deadly is applied, which DTB reduces the proc chance of

[balmy condor]

Aight we beefin now

You brought math into this

[thick sail]

Notice I'm talking about the initial proc chance of Caustic

[balmy condor]

Math says you’re gonna be applying deadly poison 5 times over before you even put the braincells together to think about mutilating

[thick sail]

It cannot function until you apply Deadly

You're probably right, if you're talented into the "guaranteed poison application chance on crit" talent that applies to Fan of Knives

[balmy condor]

What

Not even that

You have to apply at least rupture and mutilate once

[drifting cloud]

are you applying ruptures with mouseovers and going out of your way to not apply deadly on it

[balmy condor]

That’s gonna come with like 5 or 6 autos

You have 1+2+5 chances to apply

It’s gonna apply

[blazing jewel]

guys deadly poison uptime is so shit

how would you EVER apply that before a rupture

[balmy condor]

Never in my life did I think I would have to argue the things wildsoul worries about man

Shit is incredible

[thick sail]

Wait, I just reread Caustic

It says 10 second duration

I thought it was 6 before

Did I imagine that

[balmy condor]

Yes, like most things

[thick sail]

Would Poison Bomb count as poison for the purpose of Caustic? Since it says you drop a "bomb of poison"

I'm assuming no, but it's worth asking

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t right now but it’s a known bug

[thick sail]

It's supposed to count?!

[balmy condor]

Yes

[thick sail]

That is super cool

[drifting cloud]

poison bomb is indeed poison dmg

[sullen gyro]

Well technically nothing is poison damage

[thick sail]

Does Envenom count? I believe it's nature damage

[sullen gyro]

It's all nature damage

[thick sail]

Even though thematically it's "poison"

[balmy condor]

Yes

And kingsbane

And vicious venoms

And sepsis

[thick sail]

W h a t

[sullen gyro]

Just some nature damage is a poison

[thick sail]

Kingsbane makes sense, that's a poison dot

Envenom, seriously?!

[balmy condor]

Yes

[thick sail]

Sepsis also makes sense

What's Vicious Venoms? Our set bonus?

[drifting cloud]

whispyr what happened to envenom with zold, I remember watching your like first ptr stream when realz was in chat

[thick sail]

Man

Now I am like 20x more excited for Caustic Splatter

[sullen gyro]

It's cracked if you build for it

[balmy condor]

Requires a bit of thought, that’s a big change

[sullen gyro]

But so is everything else on the sin tree

[balmy condor]

Will need to rebalance

Many things

[thick sail]

Do you guys think they'll fix it so that Poison Bomb works with it?

I kind of want to do a build that doesn't include Bomb since I've used it for so long

[drifting cloud]

so it might happen? from what I remember realz was under the impression it worked :p

or maybe he just oopsied

[blazing jewel]

[drifting cloud]

would probably make assa the best execute in the game surely

[blazing jewel]

That would make our execute so strong

[sullen gyro]

If ic has smart targeting by launch we are so in there

[balmy condor]

Yeah he said it should and then I told him it doesn’t and he goes “I’ll need to fix”

[thick sail]

Oh, I hadn't thought of that. That would be real feels-bad to apply 3 garrotes with IC on a pack of 6 mobs and have them all hit the same 2 mobs

[blazing jewel]

I simmed not super long ago vs my guilds arms warrior in a 1.5 2.5 and 5min execute sim and was roughly -10k in each of them so we aren’t far behind atm

[sullen gyro]

Positional targeting is workable but frustrating

[thick sail]

Will IC also ignore sapped targets?

[balmy condor]

Ye

[thick sail]

Man, that is great

[drifting cloud]

[sullen gyro]

Ptr sin in general is great

Banger rework we love realz here

[thick sail]

I feel like coding smart targeting into IC wouldn't be hard.

If enemy is in range and has Garrote, check for next target

If next target doesn't have Garrote, apply Garrote

Else, apply Garrote to original target

[sullen gyro]

Dunno how havoc is feeling about him right now but I have to imagine baseline fel eruption got some celebration

[blazing jewel]

Yea just write the code for him real quick

Surely it’s easy

[sullen gyro]

With wow's spaghetti code I'm sure it's a mess

20 years of code to work on top of is rough

[thick sail]

I'm always mystified to look at how damage for abilities is calculated. Like, I was reading a tooltip today and it was like, "deals damage equal to (38% of attack power x 0.7 / 2)"

Like why

[balmy condor]

5 min with the source code and wildsoul fixes the game

[blazing jewel]

By fix do you mean forever brick so we can all go play ffxiv

[sullen gyro]

Maybe he could steal from double rake since that's smart but I don't know how much spaghetti would have to be translated from druid spaghetti to rogue spaghetti

[slate crown]

FFXIV would not fix the spaghetti code problem

[thick sail]

But like, why the divide by 2

[blazing jewel]

For how often the double rake thing has been suggested I’m sure if it was a copy paste thing it would have been tried

[balmy condor]

Is it an offhand attack

[thick sail]

I am not sure, I feel like it was a poison

[sullen gyro]

Yeah it's obviously more work than just 1:1 or it would've been done already

[balmy condor]

Aight well

If you don’t know what you were looking at it’s pretty hard to help you

[sullen gyro]

I just don't know if it would be easier to steal from druid or make it fresh

[thick sail]

I am old

Memory is bad

[blazing jewel]

Maybe the devs forgot feral exists so they don’t know about the tech

[sullen gyro]

They both clearly require enough work to make it unsure if it'll be in by launch

Nah people remember feral as that meme spec

[blazing jewel]

Whispyr plays a lot of feral

[sullen gyro]

It's survival that gets forgotten

[balmy condor]

It’s true, scanaskitten is a pumper

[toxic trellis]

Did you really just assume, with zero knowledge of the env or tech stack that a code change is "simple"?

[blazing jewel]

Only play it with the cat ear headphones on

[sullen gyro]

Except when people want to complain they can't play ranged sv or say it should get the 2 button spam shadowlands tier back

[balmy condor]

Don’t bother with him

For your own sanity

It only gets worse

[thick sail]

It's good to feel loved here

[balmy condor]

It’d be even better if I didn’t have to put up with you saying deranged shit every other day that I have to disprove

But yeah

Glad you’re feeling it

[thick sail]

You could just not answer me if I'm that awful

[balmy condor]

Yeah except I can’t

Because it’s my job to educate the community

They pay me for that

And part of that is stopping misinformation

Which is what you do

So I’d rather answer your delusions once

Than have to suffer from people potentially reading it

[thick sail]

Did you manage to fix that Weakaura

[balmy condor]

And then having to correct that later

I did yeah

[thick sail]

Very nice, is it something an old boomer can fix or do I need to like uninstall the whole thing

[balmy condor]

Im gonna update the pack when I have the rest of the ptr stuff tracked the way I want

[thick sail]

Okay, very cool

[celest chasm]

Hi guys, i’ve took a break from wow and looking to come back to play rogue. I’ve always liked playing assassin and heard that they’re getting reworked in patch 10.2. Is it worthwhile picking this spec up right now or better to just wait till its live in 10.2?

[flint tusk]

^^^ 100% this.

While it's being called a rework, it is mainly talent reshuffling and filling in some gaping holes in our toolkit. the general idea of how the spec works isn't changing

[indigo epoch]

Besides, fuck the haters, even in 10.1.5 I'm having fun with assasination. Yeah 10.2 we are clearly much better off.... but rogue is always fun.

[quick matrix]

I’d be having more fun if they would remove SND just takes too much apm and skill to keep it up. I have like 4 WA and keep dropping it.

[crystal tendon]

Hey all, been playing WOW since Vanilla, and yesterday for the first time I managed to get a Rogue to max level, been playing Assination and its actually alot of fun, was never a fan of combo spenders, but this is fun. Looking forward to getting better at this.

[indigo epoch]

With cttc I don't have to hard of a time. But yeah I have a big annoying wa setup for it

[exotic hazel]

Whilst I wouldn't mind the effect being baked into another skill, I do like SND, and playing Assa we have no issues with uptime

[quick matrix]

It would be ever better if they just removed it.

[exotic hazel]

Just removing it imo isn't my preference, but we all have differing opinions

[flint tusk]

i don't get why SnD gets so much flack i really don't.
like assa you press it once per encounter
sub once every 40 seconds
Outlaw you have so many combo points and such an insanely high apm i fail to see how it's difficult.

[exotic hazel]

My only issue with Outlaw is the high APM, my slow ass hands and brain can't function at that pace

Me set bleeds, me envenom

[small meadow]

"Button not feel good :("

Then you list all the things SnD does for you in the long run and they're like

[clever sapphire]

Play a fight without snd, and tell me it doesnt feel good

[small meadow]

"Just make it all passive :)"

[small meadow]

Don't need to, I'm a SnD defender

||Unless it was nixed and Recuperate was brought back in it's place||

[clever sapphire]

Oh forgot to reply to the snd hater, wasnt meant towards you xd

[small meadow]

But that'll never happen

[light warren]

no joke i tried outlaw today and i started feeling burning in my finger and i had to stop playing

[light warren]

SnD aint bad on assassin because u cast it in openener and is always up

[clever sapphire]

I dont mind it on sub and outlaw either

[light warren]

outlaw i dont want to recast that shit

10.2 seems good change

[clever sapphire]

That comes from the fact that grand melee was a thing

[light warren]

i think i just need better binds specifcally for outlaw. make as many binds without modifiers i can so i am pressing less

[exotic hazel]

Is Outlaw much different on ptr? Not had a chance to try it

If they drop the APM I'll for sure give it a go

[light warren]

I havent personally played it. i just watch a lot of content

the apm is still the same

[exotic hazel]

Besides the APM, I hope the rework doesn't add many more buttons for all specs

Motor functions in my left hand are an issue, hence Assa was always my go-to

[light warren]

I like assassin becasue i have time to think of each button i need to press lol

[exotic hazel]

Yeah, also I primarily raid, so being able to put up bleeds and still do some dps during moments where I can't connect to the boss is nice

[slow needle]

If anything its gotten faster because AR uptime is higher.

[exotic hazel]

I'll likely give it a miss then haha

Still got Sub and Assa to be hopeful for 😄

[flint tusk]

Yeh, it's so stupidly fast.
Rogues have always joked about other classes being faceroll but outlaw has literally become that.
Press 2-3 buttons as fast as possible wait for WA to shout at you press a 4th.
miss being a swordy boy in raids though. just value my hands.

[exotic hazel]

I'll need to learn Kingsbane tech if there is any

Got used to the Sepsis playstyle

[flint tusk]

i think it's fairly similar to sepsis except you hold both shiv's for kingsbane
Think it's KB>Shiv>envenom>rotation>shiv when buff drops=profit

same as it was during 10.0

[exotic hazel]

I'll get a WA to track it like I have with Sepsis

The Shiv bit I mean

[flint tusk]

Notter was working on a kingsbane instant reporting WA so you can see how you did live the past kingsbane. i'm sure he can sort a similar thing out for kingsbane like he did for sepsis. i use his thing for that all the time. super helpful with timing

[true flume]

is it a dps gain to pre cast beacon, banish as pull starts and do the normal opener?

[true flume]

You have something that tells you to save shiv for next sepsis?

[exotic hazel]

No, I have a WA that tracks Sepsis itself for Garrote timings

[true flume]

oh i was like, thats op, I NEED

[flint tusk]

I mean it is. by it's so tiny and you risk hitting 0.1 secs early and the vanish will reset the boss

[sweet dawn]

I mean you could make a WA that tells you to save shiv, doesn't seem like it'd be TOO hard?

[slate crown]

Hard to compare the remaining duration between two triggers without writing code. Like you can only compare in conditions against static numbers, not other triggers. The idea would have to be if time till charge cap is shorter than sepsis cd, hold

If you consider writing code, no, not that hard to do

Also though, the best way to do this is to not make something, just place whatever WA for shiv cd you have next to your sepsis cd WA

[flint tusk]

I just keep shiv rolling with +1 charge then you always have 1 charge for sepsis

the only time you need two is the next time sepsis and deathmark are stacked.

[slate crown]

Oh right that too, you have 2 charges, you’re not ever losing uptime as long as you don’t overlap

[flint tusk]

exactly

i think a lot of people think you need 2 charges for sepsis.

[slate crown]

And sepsis only requires 1 use to cover, unlike KB which needs 2

[flint tusk]

but you get more damage using the floating shiv charge on damage.

indeed

so anyone reading this sepsis use in a bubble so ignoring DM and other CDs is

Sepsis>Garrote>shiv>envenom>rotation until second sepsis buff is either going to expirer or garrote duration drops to 5 secs

[slate crown]

I spend time making very complex weakauras and one of my main lessons I’ve learned is don’t :). At least, WA that tell you what to do are often more harmful than helpful in the long run. They become rigid and make you less flexible with adapting to new situations. WAs should be descriptive, not prescriptive. In my opinion. There’s a lot of power to the descriptive nature plus your brain making the prescriptive judgements.

[sweet dawn]

I get asked to make weakauras like this all the time, like "Can you just make one that tells me when a button is off CD?" and I'm like yeah I can, but it won't help as much as you might think

[flint tusk]

indeed. weak auras that assist by informing you so you learn fine. but making something to rely on is pretty brutal

[slate crown]

Yeah like your typical afenar packs are fine, list out all your CDs all in one place.

A thistle tea weakaura that better arranges your charges on your energy bar so you can visually see them efficiently, this is fine.

But a weakauras that explicitly tells you to use thistle tea is the problem, in my eyes

[flint tusk]

yeh. and blizzard will be quick to nuke things like that. as they did in raid fights.

Like that WA you helped Notter make for KB. is great as it forces YOU to learn when to press stuff

[slate crown]

I’m not sure blizzard can do much to nuke this type of thing, I mean helkili still exists

[flint tusk]

i mean, something not super popular will hang around but if it become mainstream to use WA's to tell you how and when the press stuff i think they'll come down pretty hard on it

as that "solves the game"
which was why they started hiding some fight mechanics. so i think blizzard have a lot more control just choose not to use it

[slate crown]

Problem is all the events that lead to every other addon are used here. I don’t know how they could clamp down on that without nuking like, DBM, or just locking down their api completely, which would nuke wago entirely. And maybe they should do that too, but now we’re stepping into a significantly larger convo

[sweet dawn]

I personally prefer little things in my weakauras that help me out like I have a bar that tracks the KB dot, and it has a line where the duration remaining crosses shiv's duration, so I know to press shiv when it gets to that line (if I'm playing only 1 shiv for whatever reason)

[slate crown]

And that’s fine. That’s not popping up on screen with a big text saying “SHIV NOW”

[sweet dawn]

Yeah

Those are the ones I hate

But also the ones I make most for other people xD

[slate crown]

The only things like that I get are like reminders for mega obvious things that aren’t part of combat flow

Like a giant “YOU HAVE NO POISONS IDIOT” is fine

I made one when I tried dk because I kept forgetting to summon my pet

[sweet dawn]

Yeah I have one of these that gets memed on a lot

[subtle tundra]

Huh why would it

[sweet dawn]

giant icon in the middle of my screen that I can click to apply the poisons

[subtle tundra]

It's something a lot of people have

[sweet dawn]

It's comically large

and it used to show up in combat

so I'd be streaming a key or something

and BOOM

giant amp poison icon on my screen

and I just keep playing

[subtle tundra]

That's the size getting memed on

Not the usage

[sweet dawn]

yeye

I kept it big because I thought it was funny

[slate crown]

I’m a fan of comically large weakauras that only show up once every hour

[sweet dawn]

Like it ain't that bad

[spice spire]

[slate crown]

Has someone made a media pack with this for a weakaura?

[spice spire]

Not that I’m aware of but it’s a snap user

[flint tusk]

holds hand up yup i've got one of these poison WA's also but i can click on it in different ways to pick what poisons i want

So as assa with DTB
leftclick =amp right click=atro/mind Shift left=deadly shift right=crip

[gusty mirage]

could be bigger but 9/10

[sweet dawn]

I just made 4 separate weakauras, 1 for each poison and they have triggers that only make them load with DtB and whatever

and I just spam click the m

[gilded oasis]

mine is derpy panda.

he wants to know why I have no poisons on

[gusty mirage]

11/10

[scenic nacelle]

he's looking at both the buff bar and your poisons hot key

[slate crown]

I need more fun was

[spice spire]