assassination

[static glacier]

coming back to rogue after being in aug prison

[ebon notch]

omg u too

[burnt latch]

[blazing jewel]

double garrote with vanish isnt a gain

very minor thing but its something

[static glacier]

is it a loss?

[balmy condor]

I do it too

Exsang has broken my soul

Sometimes I remember and just single garrote

[blazing jewel]

also missed a few shivs on your sepsis/dm

[static glacier]

the 6 cps in dm feel so good, I can stop it though

[balmy condor]

But I find myself double garroting constantly

[static glacier]

yeah, I remember seeing one sepsis and thinking I've fumbled and wasted shivs

[balmy condor]

It feels way less good when you realize that it’s basically just a marked for death that’s on gcd

Then it doesn’t sound too great anymore

[static glacier]

it doesn't cost a talent point tho

and doesn't initial garotte application deal a tick of dmg or am I actually coping there too

[blazing jewel]

those are mostly just little 1% gain type things but they will add up the more you do them

[static glacier]

no glaring issues outside what we're talked about though I'm guessing

is it litterally just gear beyond that?

[blazing jewel]

thats just what I saw

im not great at seeing wasted finishers/energy with tea

mostly just looking at your cast sequences

[static glacier]

very slightly more waste

[balmy condor]

Yeh but that’s 1 tick lmao

[static glacier]

both of us wasted exactly 27 combo points

I'll just keep working on cleaning up my act, getting the rust off

ty for help gents

[blazing jewel]

whisp guy

im cooking

what if before vanish

we get to 3-4cp

vanish ambush finish then garrote

[void mesa]

o

im intrigued now

[spice spire]

Mf thinks Mayo is spicy

His ass is not cooking!!!!

[blazing jewel]

??????

[fathom quiver]

honestly a lot of this is his hopium but they need it a lot. spriest cooldowns just don't feel right.. you get... one % damage buff... for only half your damage... Or a stance.. that gives you 10% damage buff... but it removes previous stance so you only don't lose the previous 10% buff... but you get a button to press! PI just builds on top of that.. you get... flat % haste... that you must give out to others. Literally bugfixing it with a freaking legendary in SL and now a mandatory talent to make it not feel wrong.

[spice spire]

Lol bro says he’s cooking and then presents the mildest vanish of all time

[thorny pond]

https://tenor.com/view/princeharry-bbq-barbecue-gif-19927508

This yall cooking

Bnet saw me playing other games and credited me 5 days of game time. seems sus

[blazing jewel]

???????

quake is just mad

[spice spire]

No bitches

[hard arrow]

is this the 10.2 ptr waiting room?

[balmy condor]

Sure, it’s completely neutral and you would have to spend the effort to time it like that

But if you want to

Then go for it bud

The world is your oyster

[balmy condor]

For the last 9 months or so yeah

[snow hamlet]

prayer room

[runic hinge]

You’re my whole world, does that mean you’re an oyster?

[clever perch]

is there any way to share privated logs for analyze purposes?

[gaunt moat]

no, gotta public them

[clever perch]

idk my logs are sad in 10.1.7

[balmy condor]

Idk what sound an oyster makes, blub blub I guess

[clever perch]

i forgot where was the log analyze channel

!log

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[balmy condor]

What fight is that

[clever perch]

magmorax mythic

[balmy condor]

Seems okay to me

[clever perch]

blue parse idk

[balmy condor]

Proc better bozo

[clever perch]

same goes with experiments

im unable to get orange parse idk why xD

[gaunt moat]

It's okay, we cleared up to szkarn today and i was shit.
I've been on Sarkarath for so long that I forgot how to play on any other boss.

[clever perch]

i cleaned 8/9 mm today and didnt get a single orange

[balmy condor]

3:30 kinda shit kill time

[gaunt moat]

It's very hard to get orange when there's only like 100 sin players

[clever perch]

but they got good parses 😦

yea i noticed like it was only 40 parses of sin, i guess is bcs of that?

[gray crest]

Youll get an orange on the final boss like I did. Blue parsed all raid then got a 100 on magmorax

Until someone else grabs my 100

Before lock

[gaunt moat]

if there's 100 players, then you'd need to be top 5 for orange.

[clever perch]

if more players play sin lets say next week, will my log/parse increase? Or it will remain blue

[gaunt moat]

correction, for pink

wait, that's also wrong

[clever perch]

i guess parse doesn't update till you battle the boss again?

[gusty mirage]

correct

[gaunt moat]

why does everyone appear orange here
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/33#boss=2683&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination

[clever perch]

that sucks :c

[gusty mirage]

bro which one of yall is using CCT still

the fuck

???????????

[clever perch]

lol

[gaunt moat]

@hybrid coral explain

maybe he didn'y play the character since vault

[balmy condor]

Fotm Assassination rework abuser surely

[arctic hare]

Why is it that morchie NEVER has enough circles for a group of 5?

[clever perch]

wait i should be top 30

[balmy condor]

Thematic

[clever perch]

why im not there

cuz log is private?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[gaunt moat]

@clever perch The thing i was most upset about this raid is rashok.
How the hell did I do LESS than I did 3 months ago

i'm so bad.

[clever perch]

so top 30 = blue parse lol

[gaunt moat]

i frogot how to play

i'm sark-brained.

[ripe basin]

seems like a kill diff

[clever perch]

my 10.1.7 logs

pog

idk maybe i need some item optimization not sure

[gaunt moat]

nah, a pull before that i was at like 132k, but we wiped.
though that could have been just evoker buffing me. can't trust details anymore.

i hate evokers.

should remvoe them from the game

[clever perch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oZEpZ5gwFYyMcLAXAnPibs

[graceful bane]

For some reason they designed the fight at the beginning to spawn 8 circles so during the second set of adds you'll need to pick two people to either kite their adds till new circles spawn or max pvp stun duration the two adds till new circles spawn

I hope it's changed for m+

version

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[arctic hare]

I will refuse to do it if they don't change it for M+

[storm belfry]

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

The betrayer

[storm belfry]

hello handsome gentlemen

wdym betrayer, i betrayed to comehere

and i enjoyed my time

[balmy condor]

Gotta be a 6min Deathmark diff surely right

5:54 hurts my eyes

[gaunt moat]

I mean, we got 5% damage buff since then + i got better gear
it's just me playing bad

[gusty mirage]

proc more bro

idk

[spice spire]

True

[gaunt moat]

checks the pull where i had 132k
oh, in log it says 124k
i hate evokers.

[balmy condor]

I’m calling neltharion but he ain’t picking up the phone

That bitch

What’s it take to get hugged by a tentacle monster during my Deathmark

[spice spire]

!!

[void mesa]

At this rate were gonna need a proc more bozo emote

Or do we have one already?

[balmy condor]

[void mesa]

That conveys the feeling

Also I'm getting hyped for tmrw

[gaunt moat]

most psychotic achivement in wow?

[void mesa]

Its probably an old lore thing right? Cuz huhhh I dont get it

[gaunt moat]

Onixya is Nefarian's sister.

you get a scale from her that you can use to craft a cloak

so basically, kill Nefarian while wearing his sister.

[sharp falcon]

what if is delete

[gaunt moat]

yes please

[void mesa]

where were u
when kb was delet

[gaunt moat]

Now he's getting my hopes up it's getting removed

[void mesa]

I never got to play KB and im really intrigued

I just want it within reach of viable yeknow ;_;

[sharp falcon]

it is within reach of viable right now tbh, u lose maybe 2-3% at most with reasonable execution

depends on fight length too tho i guess

[gaunt moat]

My gripe with it is how hard you get punsihed if you gotta walk away from boss when you use it

[void mesa]

I mean, the biggest Assault dps was with KB but huhhh

[sharp falcon]

yeah its a must-uptime 14sec window

[void mesa]

Yeah, I guess I never tried since its never been anywhere it seems

Same with AP (outside Council ofc)

[oak sky]

cant wait for kb removal bring back exsang

[sharp falcon]

what if is delete

[oak sky]

dont search my comment history for exsang

[void mesa]

But yeah, I mean, depending on what I read tmrw in the patch notes (tmrw right?? )... I may go full time mage

[oak sky]

[void mesa]

And i dont want that cuz I like this discord too much

[gaunt moat]

even as a joke, this should be bannable here.

[oak sky]

🔮

[sharp falcon]

what if 🧙 is delete

[void mesa]

Exsang enjoyers are gonna be exiled to #outlaw soon

WHAT

[oak sky]

what is the moon phase

thats what tells if exsang is gone

[void mesa]

REALZ WHAT IS THIS LEAK

Or is it a leek??

[sharp falcon]

no leaks here, just questions

[void mesa]

Im getting mixed signals now

Those are big questions

(While were at it... PI+Aug delete right?)

[runic hinge]

Pls no

[gaunt moat]

🌗

[oak sky]

alright half moon

that meanssss

exsang is getting replaced not outright removed

be ready guys

[sharp falcon]

what if is delete

[gaunt moat]

ah akotuaclly, it's last quarter moon

[void mesa]

Thats some lore drop now

[runic hinge]

Delete factions at all

[balmy condor]

What if everything except rogue is delete, thoughts?

3 specs should be enough

[spice spire]

That’s my dev

[oak sky]

woo remove rogue

[void mesa]

Rework outlaw to tank and get the 4th potion healer spec in?

[ember mural]

what if is delete

[spice spire]

Hire him

[gaunt moat]

What if next expansion is

[void mesa]

Hol up, FFXIV just did that

[deft flicker]

Do you mean nuking half of the planet or just remove the political boogaloo going on??

[gilded oasis]

next xpac, all dreamsurges all the time

[gaunt moat]

Piratesurgers?

[sharp falcon]

what if 🌎 is delete

[runic hinge]

Is…is blizzard deleting the earth in 10.2?

[gaunt moat]

Finally

It was the most requested feature for ages

[bronze pike]

not the planet

only the emoji

clearly

[spice spire]

No no, the planet

This is what real cooking is @bronze pike take notes

[gilded oasis]

We're going to the moon

[bronze pike]

https://tenor.com/view/russian-badger-didnt-ask-dont-care-cry-about-it-stay-mad-gif-25727142

ill show you real cookin

[spice spire]

Cope

[bronze pike]

as soon as the first rogue changes happen

[deft flicker]

This I can get behind

[thorny pond]

What are we cooking?

[slate crown]

Does feral play like sin at all with their bleeds? I've never looked into them

[blazing jewel]

no

[grand trail]

No, feral is much cooler

[blazing jewel]

idk about that

blood talons is kinda cringe

[runic hinge]

I just dont play it

the gain is relatively small for a lot more effort

[oak sky]

feral has a lot of good synergies and the base kit is really good

[blazing jewel]

[blazing jewel]

[runic hinge]

[blazing jewel]

[silk bane]

Feral feels really fun in incarn, outside of incarn though its kinda cursed. having to keep up 4 different bleeds with 2 that are very short lived but also maintaing talons, not overappign to force a talon proc, or accidentally re writing snapped bleeds is kinda cursed.

is fun though once u get a hang of it imo

[blazing jewel]

if bloodtalons had 1 extra second for the buff

that spec would be more fun imo

[silk bane]

5 instead of 4?

yeah totally agree

[blazing jewel]

yea

[runic hinge]

Blood talons is just pooling for builders and then also pooling for FB right after

LS just let's me be brain off about it

and only care about pooling for FB and then maintain bleeds

[silk bane]

it is, and after some practice it becomes kinda 'smooth' with the st build

but like the non ST build i find myself overcapping a lot

also the fact that the rewrite criteria for a 12 second bleed is 10 seconds or less if u get a proc is beyond cursed

[runic hinge]

Feral's tree is pretty good tho and you can play a bunch of different talents which is fun

[tired night]

How much higher should suffering be simming? I'm wondering if there's just some weird thing with my gear putting it like 300 below essence with full buffs

[blazing jewel]

essence and suffering are pretty close\

assuming both are max ilvl

[tired night]

Feral feels like it has more defined specs by swapping talents than rogue does by swapping specs

[blazing jewel]

can high roll with nelth trinket allowing for juicy parses though

[tired night]

That's gotta be it. I have essence and bomb so less RNG but no highrolling giga parses

[silk bane]

i dont really agree. rogues are very different than each other. they have similar damage profiles but they play uniquely to themselves

[earnest remnant]

i dont play Nelths trinket either and ive got some juicers

[silk bane]

stealthi you were the juice all long not the trinkets. what a journey

[earnest remnant]

dunno man i just press my buttons and hope for the best

[vestal wren]

just scrolled up, 11.0 spoilers ?

[deft flicker]

Surely

No more world, just warcraft

[tired night]

I'm mostly comparing logs with similar killtimes but unless there's some small thing I'm missing I'm starting to think its just nelth trinket highrolls. The only other thing I'm seeing is dashing scoundrel but that's just down to mechanics taking you out of melee right? No gameplay around that?

[silk bane]

sophics quite strong too. during cd sophic procs can make or break pulls.

[blazing jewel]

you can still get 99s with bad rng

[silk bane]

^

[earnest remnant]

bad rng?

sorry

[blazing jewel]

[earnest remnant]

couldnt help myself

[silk bane]

LOL

[blazing jewel]

that image is in your favorites folder for sure

[earnest remnant]

its actually on my desktop

[blazing jewel]

I didnt spec into my st build since I made that character

and never set to have shared action bars

was quite the disaster when I zoned into the raid and saw that

[earnest remnant]

we have it right there

[blazing jewel]

[tired night]

thats what I'm trying to work on but a lot of the logs I am seeing with similar kill times I'll look at casts, resources, and uptimes before anything else and its pretty much identical. Nelth trinket or sophic is the only differentiators I'm seeing besides a single outlier with a big dashing difference in energy gain

oh wait jk its because my windfury totem was dead thats why

[blazing jewel]

wf is noticeable but not HUGE dps

for sin

[earnest remnant]

u rdy for 19:45 my time tonight scana

[blazing jewel]

wait new chart

[earnest remnant]

5:25 sark incoming

[blazing jewel]

why did outlaw value drop so far

[earnest remnant]

no one plays it

[blazing jewel]

sin is pretty close to sub in value now

for wft

[earnest remnant]

i mean sub gets energy/cp

assa gets poison procs

so

[blazing jewel]

I just remembered on the previous updates it wasnt nearly that close

[tired night]

Yeah I'm just trying to find errors I might be making that I'm not noticing. One log I'm looking at for mag with like identical killtime the other person had like 140 more energy gain from dashing scoundral and more auto attacks. I'm guessing our shaman being dead for like 25s is the reason

Theres no other gameplay to maximize with scoundral besides just stay in melee right?

[grand trail]

Scana 😂

[blazing jewel]

?????

[rotund oak]

try playing for a week outlaw,u'll understand

[blazing jewel]

WINDFURY VALUE

[earnest remnant]

Value this

[keen spruce]

@blazing jewel

the real numebrs are in

look at that improvement

[vestal wren]

Subtlety: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6nKhoDgix29SyZkJyC9pWA

Assassination
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/653WmE6mW4n1s2mGGK4eM7

Outlaw:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kVqh73mBQNd4t8aFPrWWXw

wft on outlaw fairly meh (just added outlaw for fun)

interessting

[blazing jewel]

please dont tell me that is mythic

[keen spruce]

that is mythic

[blazing jewel]

[keen spruce]

I'm a warlock for hire

to struggling guilds

[blazing jewel]

what did you get paid with

[keen spruce]

that my friends joined after my old one exploded

[blazing jewel]

gamer gummies?

[keen spruce]

the real payment is the friends we made along the way

they actually let me roll on loot even though they were starting sark today

but i didn't win tier

would have almost been higher ilvl than my rogue if i got 450 tier lol

[midnight mist]

why is shout lower dps loss for outlaw

dont we have mostly physical damage

oh wait that would be monk buff

war is ap right

[scarlet orbit]

yes

[deft flicker]

I guess something in our kit just doesn’t scale with ap

[midnight mist]

hm

why are we shit with ap then

whats up with that

Im confusion

[deft flicker]

We’re pure physical so having mystic touch as the biggest gain is understandable

Maybe MG

[midnight mist]

idk how ap works I think

are every abilities suppsoed to scale the same with ap

[vestal wren]

monk and shout both are good

ap is just damage ye

its funny to look at

i wouldn't have guessed how good/bad mystical touch is

for assassinaiton

[midnight mist]

uh

doesnt sub play the exact same embellish and trinkets tho

I dont think the difference should be that massive

oh I guess we also have weapons procs

hm

[vestal wren]

sub/assa also use time dagger

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[midnight mist]

if I remove everything procs

should I be gaining the same as sub without procs then

with ap

or is there still other factors

[scarlet orbit]

i just realized i have no clue how ap works at all my monkey brain was always just warrior = more ap = more dmg

[vestal wren]

i never rly made this comparison, but damage calculations might differ

[midnight mist]

I mean does every spell scale the same with AP

I think is my question reallly

[deft flicker]

No

[midnight mist]

well it doesnt

was just looking at tooltips

[vestal wren]

dispatch is 32% ap f.ex.

[midnight mist]

so items are irrelevant

[vestal wren]

evi already is diffrent

[midnight mist]

or well I dont understand

bte is strange

like what is that

[deft flicker]

Probably accounting for dagger oh

[midnight mist]

I mean I guess everything is just random numbers anyway

so ye every spec in the game gain differently from ap right

[scarlet orbit]

137,5 would have been way to much 137,48 is totaly the sweet spot

[midnight mist]

bro wtf does this even mean

I mean I think the main thing is differnt ap scaling from abilities

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/what-do-they-mean-random-numbers-gif-10654449

[midnight mist]

if we had good abilities scaling we probably wouldnt be playing that much procs items right

like enhance doesnt play tusk

[deft flicker]

Yes

[vestal wren]

@midnight mist but lets make a comparison

[midnight mist]

also why is there so few things that have a "offhand attack power" included

and what does it mean

im so confused bro

[vestal wren]

well agi directs close to directly to ap

[midnight mist]

is ap = agi ?

how does main hand dps interact with all that

does it or is main hand good just because autto attacks good

[vestal wren]

you can probably see agi = ap

moment

[deft flicker]

Also why do int 1handers have like 3 times as much main stat as agi/str 1handers

[midnight mist]

because we have the autto attacks thing

they dont

[vestal wren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bMFNT3w2jboNb99bZXmucQ

but lets compare how much ap gives for all 3 specs

[midnight mist]

well that could be a coincidence doesnt really explain what is ap vs agi right

unless they are exactly the same thing

[vestal wren]

agi translates to ap, ap is used for damage calculations

it is the same because it translates 1:1 kinda

[midnight mist]

ok

why is ap a thing then

instead of directly doing math with agi

[vestal wren]

ap is universal, agi, strengh etc. is specific

if you look back at wc3, you will also see main stats beeing more overloaded

[midnight mist]

ah right

[royal lantern]

idk what items the sims uses, maybe its just item effects/trinkets that dont scalen with ap?

[vestal wren]

i don't know all damage calculations out of my head too, so would need to ask mystler/koji for all details

wow has some not intuitive things and also inconsistencies between classes/specs

still, just for the fun of it, lets compare how much all 3 specs get from adding ap

[royal lantern]

wow and beeing more convuluted then a souls game story, name a more iconic duo

DM giving CP, why dont you get additonal cp from a sepsis garrote etc

wow is fun

[vestal wren]

Subtelty: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jk3P1kcwezmpZS8W4TFLuY

Outlaw: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ts2bH7bzWJ2g81Y7b6J25N

Assassination: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8xoVfrqDfWNDU6LAsRshqP

[midnight mist]

ye I would want to see what happen if both have gear without procs tho

I think that would be more telling

[earnest remnant]

so what you are telling me is that

Assa scales

[midnight mist]

ye insane scaling spec

[vestal wren]

oh no, stealthi used the forbidden word

[midnight mist]

better reroll sin next tier

[earnest remnant]

love a little shit stirring the morning

[midnight mist]

cause outlaw is clearly not scaling

unlucky

[vestal wren]

i think there is a valid argument

because of how stats grow on gear

[deft flicker]

@vestal wren can you pls do frost dk or something else that really loves stats for comparison??

[vestal wren]

outlaw atm has 2 strong and 2 meh stats

[vestal wren]

sure

[royal lantern]

did somone say

scaling?

[deft flicker]

Is that an evoker thing or??

[vestal wren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kcAHtJ2XJ3FQq22ffpQehr

guess frost gets "outscaled"

[midnight mist]

wtf

[vestal wren]

but something is sus

moment

[midnight mist]

why would they gain that little

less than outlaw

no shot

L spec

[vestal wren]

they sim 142k, but their baseline is 135 here

let me double check

fair

strength https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a6QdeGL5n6d23zckQJsDCq

[midnight mist]

so its not 1:1 then

[royal lantern]

play dracthyr rogue when its avaible

first you have the mastery % racial (aka scaling)

and then you have actually scales aswell

double the scaling

[midnight mist]

ah ok

[deft flicker]

Scales are scaling

[vestal wren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mcx4XCU7gXG83mPVVq9U9c

ap for comparison

so ye, its quite a bit diffrent

i am not sure why the 1h profile sims 137k tho

instead of >140k

[swift moss]

!blindside

[prisma monolith]

Ambush/Mutilate Macro:
This should be seen as a "lazy" option, and is not recommended. It can be hard to control and requires a third-party macro addon to expand the games base functionality. We recommend ALWAYS keybinding ambush (either with a modifier, or an entirely different key)
You can macro Ambush to Mutilate using a advanced macro addon.
Further Explanation/Details:
#assassination message

[austere fulcrum]

when is the 10.2 annoucement today ?

[near valley]

19:30 EU server time I believe

[gaunt moat]

I wanna be able to need to scroll to keep reading sin changes.

[void mesa]

EU boys be cooking early on today

So were rerolling to dracthyr in 10.2?

[limber lion]

Negative

[void mesa]

Goddamn it cev

Im just hyped for patch notes this afternoon

[royal lantern]

you dont belive in the DOUBLE SCALING strat?

[void mesa]

Only way to scale better is to add scales

[grand trail]

Why would you double scale if you can TRIPLE

[void mesa]

Unbeatable logic

[void mesa]

Wheres the third one???

[deft flicker]

Scale armor

Like armor made of scales

Plus scales

[void mesa]

So we swap to mail?

[deft flicker]

The option is there

Whether to follow it is up to you

[void mesa]

Im not against

Tho my LW isnt fully levelled for mail D:

[slim hamlet]

Just 19:00 CEST

[sweet dawn]

When we shiv what % dr does atrophic poison go to?

Cus the tooltip just says "a concetrated form"

[spice surge]

Shiv has no effect on atrophic

[hearty reef]

[past forum]

Raid leader: can you hold a charge of shiv for this mechanic?

https://tenor.com/view/lotr-ring-no-isildur-lord-of-the-rings-gif-5743603

[void mesa]

wait what

[hearty reef]

For bl yes

[true flume]

Question! In m+ after our first application of garrote and rupture from Discriminate Carnage fades. Do we re apply rupture to every target? Assuming they are going to live long enough.

[sweet dawn]

This was something I was afraid I'd have to do but I just flat out told the raid leader I shiv on CD as part of my rotation, I ain't holding it

[thorny pond]

You wanna keep them up with CT yes. Sometimes just a few up (3) then funneling is also value

[clever sapphire]

put up enough so you can spam builder finisher

[deft flicker]

You kind of hold if you play 2 charges but you don’t have spare charges anyways because all shivs go towards sepsis and dm

[true flume]

Thank you, so that would be like 3 or so?

[clever sapphire]

3-4 ye

[marsh grail]

yo got giga idea

what if exsang gets replaced by a passive talent that makes bleeds just tick faster in general perma

too much cooking or?

[thorny pond]

Then it becomes a mandatory choice

[marsh grail]

make it a capstone tho

and make other capstones competitive

somehow

[thorny pond]

It'd be cracked with IC

[sweet dawn]

100% more quickly seems insane

and scourge strike cleaves in DnD too

[thorny pond]

I understand it isn't unheard of. But for it to fit in sin's kit, there would have to be some other knobs added as well. Otherwise it becomes mandatory for ST and if that is the case, we get cracked in AoE/cleave

Imagine current garrote doing 1.5x damage in same time frame

[marble hemlock]

we could get a 50% buff in aoe and still wouldnt be "cracked" so idk about that one

[marsh grail]

seli change that to 100%

still not even remotely close to being strong

[marble hemlock]

we might be doing outlaw/sub number with that

[thorny pond]

Under the assumption other QoLs are implemented and tunings changed as well. Not just bleed speed

[marble hemlock]

but yeah like... assa aoe is so abysmal, that theres really no limit to what you could do. and considering how many broken interactions/builds other classes have, i really dont see the problem of one set of combinations being very good for one particular encounter type

im just kinda wary of "well if you can do X then its too powerful" being an argument against exploring it and finding a solution for that problem

[marsh grail]

especially like as you said other classes got some turbo cracked shit

[marble hemlock]

cause its what led to us having shitty 3-pointers up until now, because dtb+kb was gonna be "too powerful"

(dtb should be the first talent in our spec tree, not the last. dont @ me)

[earnest remnant]

@marble hemlock i agree

[grim tangle]

no just delete dtb

[earnest remnant]

but the FLAVOUR

[gusty mirage]

can someone tell me their issue with dtb without using the words "but its boring"?

[earnest remnant]

i hate having to put on 4 poisons every 1 hour

[grim tangle]

it ties my damage to auto attacks

[gusty mirage]

I mean...

[near valley]

It's simply unpleasurable

[gusty mirage]

that's rogue bro

idk what to tell you

that's been rogue

since the inception of the class

auto attacks mattered because of poisons

[vestal wren]

It needs to be more like

[near valley]

I like dtb

2 poisons of each type is fun

[earnest remnant]

unironically the only thing i dislike about dtb is putting on 4 poisons

[near valley]

Thematically

[marble hemlock]

fair

[gusty mirage]

in fact poisons used to matter even more, where you'd have a shiv macro with ANOTHER poison on it for certain encounters

[near valley]

One button macro ez

[gusty mirage]

a shiv-weapon swap macro

[vestal wren]

Poisons should not have a duration

[earnest remnant]

TRUE

[marble hemlock]

ye i think so too

[void mesa]

What if we had more poison types

[marble hemlock]

or make the duration long enough that they lad the entire raid, pmuch

[void mesa]

So that DTB mattered more in choices

[marble hemlock]

thats kinda what i was alluding to

if you made dtb the entry point for assa

you could tailor the spec around more poison types

that could fit different niches or encounter types

[earnest remnant]

i want a "depression" poison "makes the target miserable"

[gusty mirage]

for assa rogues to be as passionate about their spec, they don't seem to like very much about it

[marble hemlock]

instead its this bigass capstone thats hugely important and kinda limits the rest of the tree because nothing in the tree can be too potent with double poisons or dtb becomes a must pick (not like it wasnt since the very first moment it became a talent)

[void mesa]

Then the mob uses reflect and were immune cuz already depressed

[near valley]

Give me a heroin poison that gets mobs addicted so I can extort gold off em

[gusty mirage]

they have that

it's called the auction house

[near valley]

Lmao

[marble hemlock]

its called ATT

[gusty mirage]

I mean I get it, dtb isn't exactly exciting

but it's also more exciting than not having 4 poisons

[marble hemlock]

idk, i think dtb is awesome. id just like to have more poisons to play with when i select it

[gusty mirage]

envenom doesn't hit like a wet noodle anymore

[gusty mirage]

that would be nice

[earnest remnant]

i dig it

[marble hemlock]

dtb is the one thing that makes assa distinct as a poison spec compared to outlaw/sub

[gusty mirage]

being able to slap atrophic & numbing would be nice

like we were originally supposed to be able to do

[earnest remnant]

only reason im not that big a fan is as mentioned + KB is a dead because of it

[gusty mirage]

until all the other rogues started crying about being forced to play assassination because of the DR

KB isn't dead because of it

KB is dead because arterial precision was introduced

[void mesa]

I think if you only ever play assassination DTB is kinda boring cuz its passive

But if you offspec, you get a bit of contrast with 2 vs 4 poison

[marble hemlock]

ye kb kinda died for AP and its one of those "jesus turning in his grave if he saw what you did" situations, where youre not sure if their death was worth it

[vestal wren]

Passive is fine

[gusty mirage]

I just kinda laugh when people say something is too passive

when in pre-patch

people were crying up a storm about "too many binds"

[marble hemlock]

passive is kinda what assa is in a nutshell

[near valley]

It wasnt

[vestal wren]

I like the idea of more poisons, would love a lot more choice in general

[gusty mirage]

I mean AP is a cool talent, it's just centered around a very lackluster form of damage

which is shiv

[near valley]

Shiv to victory lmao

[marble hemlock]

wdym, just spec coldblood and bang the big 5target 100% crit shiv!!!

[gusty mirage]

if they buff shiv to actually do damage, ap would be more well received imo

[simple gyro]

isnt that TTB?

[near valley]

Might as well make a node where it reduces shiv cd

[marble hemlock]

i dont want shiv to do more damage, i want more damage during shiv

[near valley]

But in a way where u don't abuse it in st

[gusty mirage]

calm down toxic blade boy

[earnest remnant]

toxic blade bis

[marble hemlock]

i liked wellplaced steel

[near valley]

Make poison bomb grow like defile

[gusty mirage]

you really wanna go back to "How many envenoms do I need to fit into my TB window?????"

[earnest remnant]

partition to perm change shiv to toxic blade

[near valley]

Ez

[marble hemlock]

getting bigger amps with AP would be nice imo

[earnest remnant]

i fcking hate the shiv icon

SO MUCH

[gusty mirage]

it hates you too

[earnest remnant]

good

[gusty mirage]

it called me and said "fuck stealthi that guy smells"

[marble hemlock]

in an environment where we're already nearing 90-100% envenom uptime? yes please.

[deft flicker]

Just macro the icons

[earnest remnant]

i just had a shower

so thats false

i smell like flowers

[marble hemlock]

depends on the shower bro

[gusty mirage]

stinky stinky stinky

[near valley]

The golden variety

[gusty mirage]

stealthi wanna handle my hearing in 3 hours?

[earnest remnant]

no lol

[gusty mirage]

pls?

[void mesa]

Oxi what xd

[gusty mirage]

it's a waste of time bro

this guy hasn't given me any discovery and is planning to show up to trial and introduce evidence

[void mesa]

In 3hrs its ptr announcement

Just call sick

[vestal wren]

Change it to

[near valley]

Ik one thing I'm not hearing

Who asked

[gusty mirage]

I love it hwen the outlaw boys come in here

to pretend that people actually like them

[marble hemlock]

anyway, i think having more poisons active is cool, and i wish there were more choices for lethal ones. i think they could/should make wound deal same damage as IP if you talent it, so you get MS by default instead of having to sacrifice damage for it, and then re-introduce some older poison ideas that allow for different kinds of damage patterns

[gusty mirage]

go play your wish.com fury warrior

non-rally havin' ass

[near valley]

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/JPwPq/c616f0b24e.jpg

[near valley]

Wait isn't rally a class specific thing

We all non-rally having asses here

[gusty mirage]

yeah but we don't RP as fury warriors

MAH APM

[marble hemlock]

and i know whispyr will find me irl and kill me for it but

[gusty mirage]

FtH nerfed the flow of my spec

[near valley]

Fth is fun

Don't let anyone say otherwise

[marble hemlock]

id like to swap poisons mid-dungeon or mid-fight even to adjust my damage pattern, if i talent into different things

lemme play st poisons on a boss and then swap to aoe poisons in aoe, thanks.

[near valley]

Mid-fight?

[marble hemlock]

sure

we used to have a shorter poison cast time

[near valley]

Seli on his chaos arc

[marble hemlock]

was only 1sec instead of the 2 or 3 it is now

[marble hemlock]

you mean legion arc

[deft flicker]

Hmm, what about KB and DTB leading into one another on the tree

[marble hemlock]

cause thats literally what we had back then

[near valley]

I love you too hombre

[marble hemlock]

play agonizing on singletarget, then swap to deadly poison for aoe

[vestal wren]

Legion had gear swaps mid dungeon

Was wild

[gusty mirage]

better days

[marble hemlock]

that was good stuff, and kinda solved the st vs aoe issue as well, since there were artifact traits that affected different poisons differently

[gusty mirage]

because the result in bfa was people setting their hearthstones outside of FH and hearthing out while the rest of the group made their wya to harlan

[vestal wren]

You could spezialist more in legion

[gusty mirage]

do a lil azerite swaperoo

[near valley]

Inventive

[marble hemlock]

agonizing poison died for toxic blade

[near valley]

Peak efficiency and game design

[marble hemlock]

[vestal wren]

E.g. Ww did run with defensive Legos on some bossed

Bosses

[gusty mirage]

my fav was destro locks having to swap to demo for the necropolis in necrotic wake

because blasphemy just didn't work in there

[marble hemlock]

@gusty mirage would you rather have shiv or agonizing poison?

[gusty mirage]

I played sub in legion

so

[marble hemlock]

thats not an answer to my question

why are you being evasive? is it because youre a lawyer?

not wanting to answer questions directly....

[gusty mirage]

never played with agonizing

I quit first week of cata until the end of legion

and I played sub when I came back

[marble hemlock]

i liked agonizing

but im probably the only one

[near valley]

Yes

[deft flicker]

Wasn’t agonizing a thing in like TBC??

Or was it a different thing??

[marble hemlock]

nah, it was a legion thing

[atomic rune]

Agonizing is cool thematically buitis pretty outdated and boring

[marble hemlock]

wdym, was kinda neat on cenarius to make sure to maintain AP by throwing your knife at them once in a while to maintain stacks on multiple targets

what about it?

okay so?

are you helping with adds now?

has assa helped with adds in the last 6 years throughout bfa/sl/df?

adds on a fight, assa goes

https://tenor.com/view/im-doing-my-part-soldier-smile-happy-gif-15777039

[grand trail]

you can do it

[gusty mirage]

I think TB being cooked into shiv is kinda dogshit

considering that's part of our utility for keys

[marble hemlock]

ah yes, great answer to the question of "how do you help on adds as assa now, compared to when we had a 'boring talent that didnt allow for helping on adds'"

[gusty mirage]

I'm fine with shiv, but I'd like "r2 shiv" turned into toxic blade and made a separate ability

[atomic rune]

Closest we got was saving Vendetta with set bonus for the Lihuvim adds

[gusty mirage]

like if you wanna play assassination and it's raging week?

[marble hemlock]

i mean at that point youre not just helping adds, youre just giving up any semblance of boss damage to send CDs on adds like lihuvim or ilgynoth 😄

[gusty mirage]

fuck your damage buddy

you're shiving for soothes

[atomic rune]

Thats what Im saying its the closest we got LMAO

[marble hemlock]

ye

idk

i like agonizing

change my mind

[static glacier]

Mark my words, they will make sin able to multitarget

[atomic rune]

Assa is just a cleave class when you can multidot

Thats where we shine

[vestal wren]

I didn't like ap

[atomic rune]

is this agonizing or atrophic

[marble hemlock]

thats only true if you needed extremely short-duration burst though, which assa is still insanely dogshit at, i.e. smth like the small fetid devourer eggs. but assa actually had great damage on adds if they lived a bit longer (i.e. big egg on fetid), exactly because once you ramped, you had big dam

[atomic rune]

oh never mind

you used past tense

[vestal wren]

Agonizing poison

[deft flicker]

Hire a lizard and let it aoe soothe without cooldown

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/JPwRE/190f33affc.png

this one

[vestal wren]

AP did limit Design space to the spec, it worked good damage wise tho

[marble hemlock]

which, with mastery and artifact traits, ended up being 8-10% per stack, not 3.5

[gusty mirage]

artifact weapons

my loves

[deft flicker]

Of all soothes in this game shiv is probably the worst one

[atomic rune]

IMO if Assa got switched to a full poison based spec were destined to become support style instead of damage based

All of the poisons are utility be it for others or yourself

[static glacier]

Blood of the assassinated pRocs anyone?

[marble hemlock]

bota, pb and concordance proc RNG, what a time to be alive

[atomic rune]

Personally Im giga down for it to become a melee aug spec but I dont think most assa players would like that

[static glacier]

I remember the feeling of getting no opener procs 🙃

[gusty mirage]

from what I've observed over the last 2 expacs they don't like anything

[marble hemlock]

then switch from agonizing to deadly with a 1second cast when that add comes around that needs quick burst.

[static glacier]

Backloaded damage sucks if not tuned to be strong

[gusty mirage]

people still angy about snd 3 years later

[atomic rune]

Its time to cut our losses and full switch to a different playstyle

[gusty mirage]

honestly I can't even hate you for that opinion

[marble hemlock]

s2 legion was great for assa exactly because you could just swap to DP and spam some fok for PK procs for decent aoe together with bomb procs, and then go back to agonizing for very strong single target

[gusty mirage]

most people complain that "assa is the same it's been for 10+ years"

and that new tier sets, etc are just "more of the same"

[atomic rune]

Also realistically are there even enough Assa dedicated players to keep trying to force it into the same style?

[static glacier]

Snd should go, it’s not remotely challenging / button bloat

[atomic rune]

Just go full Survival hunter on it

[grand trail]

assa wont change that much with 10.2

[static glacier]

I doubt we will stop pRessing mut > env

[atomic rune]

Ikr

[vestal wren]

Aoe is likely to change

[atomic rune]

Its so weird being a dot based spec and we spend 75% of the time just pressing Env

[marble hemlock]

yeah its definitely a devisive thing, but i feel the niche/concept of assa with poisons being a focal point, should kinda incorporate that kind of gameplay because its tailormade for it. a poison for every situation.

[static glacier]

Minor cds for strong temp poisons could work

[marble hemlock]

and what we currentl have instead, is a poison for EVERY situation

[atomic rune]

I will ride this to the day I die. GUT the spec make it poison based call it alchemist and make it a support. Make smoke bomb something you can infuse with poisons and combos it to do different utility stuff or somethign

[gusty mirage]

I mean our lethal poisons now I think are fine

they're a non-issue

[marble hemlock]

but then not really, cause all poisons sucks for aoe atm 😄

[gusty mirage]

you still have amp poison stacking so you can cope that you're doing "prio damage"

deadly is good enough in aoe

our non-lethals could use a lot of love

it's [insert unique non-lethal] + crippling

always

and we have damage tied to poison application

[static glacier]

Bring back mop deadly poison q

[marble hemlock]

they are, but to me thats an issue. poisons should be more impactful, or at least make up a larger chunk of our damage. its kinda telling that our worst talent in the early tree is imp poisons, because applying poisons more frequently just isnt powerful. but imo it should be

[gusty mirage]

and crippling doesn't apply to bosses

and we just instantly lose out on damage because of that

seems kinda shitty

I think one of the unique non-lethals should be given to assassination for free given that we're the poison spec

[marble hemlock]

unironically, i think removing snd would already require an adjustment to our passive damage, that could be loaded into poisons to make up for it, which would then also boost their efficacy in aoe a lot

[atomic rune]

OG rogues be like "But its been a staple since forever we cant just get rid of it 🤓 "

And then only play Sub lmapo

[marble hemlock]

but ye i mean, at this point all of the discussions are kinda moot, just gotta wait for what changes are being made so we can riot over the new things instead of the old ones

[gusty mirage]

dw the purples are giving you an avenue for your rage

soon enough

[silk bane]

buddy i didnt even play back then and im still angry about it. im true peak assasination connoisseur

[gusty mirage]

then we can go back to talking about food and pets in here

[marble hemlock]

ye like, i always think back fondly to tbc/wrath pvp days where youd weaponswap because poisons were weapon specific and if you did it well, youd apply 4 poisons despite only wielding 2 weapons

[gusty mirage]

like baby jesus intended

[gusty mirage]

I just don't get the snd hate

tbh

[marble hemlock]

but youd cycle through them with weaponswap macros to apply more than 2. and i kinda liked that level of "skill expression", and i think itd be nice if poisons werent just a "set and forget" part of our kit, but a more active component again

[gusty mirage]

like it's literally a who cares moment

it's 1 button you press once as assassination

and forget about it

[atomic rune]

Uh I disagree with that

[gusty mirage]

and you get like 3k dps for it

[static glacier]

That’s exactly why

[atomic rune]

Its existence makes the class as a whole feel worse

[static glacier]

What’s the point of it

[atomic rune]

It doesnt make sense for it to be only Assa

[gusty mirage]

I believe they were going for "flavor"

[marble hemlock]

i mean, removing snd just means in order to keep damage the same, you have to compensate that damage elsewhere. i.e. make poisons hit harder, make rupture/garrote tick harder. id take that over snd any day, because that affects our aoe, snd does not.

[gusty mirage]

fwiw I remember the SL announcement

and they mentioned shiv and snd

and I just laughed

I was like WOWWIE

I get to attack faster and now my TB is named shiv

meanwhile other classes got useful shit back

we got attack faster and shiv

[atomic rune]

I would honestly think itd be a fun buff to manage on Outlaw if the spec itself didnt feel bad

[gusty mirage]

lmao

[deft flicker]

Slam

[marble hemlock]

the more damage is tied to us autoing the boss, the less damage the rest of our kit can do, which ultimately limits our ability to scale into aoe. thats why SND sucks.

[deft flicker]

Frostbolt

Corruption

[gusty mirage]

didn't DK and shaman get a bunch of cool shit back?

[marble hemlock]

the one rogue-thing i got excited over for SL, was the thing they scrapped

[gusty mirage]

crimson vial buffs?

[atomic rune]

DONT REMIND ME

[gusty mirage]

[deft flicker]

I don’t think so

[gusty mirage]

ANY DAY NOW SELI

SOON

[atomic rune]

imagine pickpocket being cool since Legion

[deft flicker]

Like this whole “class feels more like class and not three classes in a trenchcoat” is just an excuse to make Torghast powers

[gusty mirage]

the best part was the nerf to vial

[marble hemlock]

psure the majority of the mobs in DF cant even be pickpocketed

[silk bane]

again didnt play early SL so not sure, but I think snd had an energy regen thingy tied into it, so I think they werje trying to use it as a tuning knob for sin at least. but now thats its gone its just a flavour thingy u press once a fight as assa and just ignore it exists. which is w/e

[marble hemlock]

[gusty mirage]

to compensate for those coming buffs

AND THEY NEVER CAME

[marble hemlock]

and losing artifact trait for it

that was actually really good

[deft flicker]

Literally me

[errant swallow]

Rogue legendary inc

[gusty mirage]

bro they announced it at blizzconline

and it just never materialized

[errant swallow]

2 hours

[gusty mirage]

lmfao

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/JPwW5/7e65c7fdd7.jpg

[near valley]

U could pickpocket kurog tbf for some reason

[marble hemlock]

i liked this one a lot

[deft flicker]

Another feint

[gusty mirage]

but they also forgot rogue existed all of SL alpha and beta

[marble hemlock]

made crimson vial either a heal or a mitigation cd

[gusty mirage]

so

[near valley]

I liked you a lot

[gusty mirage]

there's that ig

[marble hemlock]

depending on how you used it

[atomic rune]

Honestly the biggest letdown was getting told were getting Kingsbane back and then they locked it behind DTB

[marble hemlock]

ye

i was supremely disappointed you cant use the survivors bag at all in df

[static glacier]

Lore relevant talent xd

[marble hemlock]

itd actually be so fucking fun to use in df as well

due to how the areas are designed

[gusty mirage]

woah woah woah buddy

fun?

[atomic rune]

The fact the new talent just wouldnt work with Kingsbane so they never fixed it and made it impossible to talent togehter

[gusty mirage]

is this a game to you?

[marble hemlock]

actually no

not anymore

wow turned from a game for entertainment to a job

so now i basically dont play it anymore lol

[vestal wren]

I did pickpocket the rates in the 10.0.7 zone, but the value of items and coins you get is too low to consider it reasonable to do

[static glacier]

Imagine! They tune kb and Let us have kb + dtb

[atomic rune]

I was applying to a guild and hte recruiter told me WoW "isnt a game its a hobby"

[vestal wren]

Rares

Damn phone autocorrect

[marble hemlock]

its kinda sad, considering how big pickpocketing was in legion with the sidequest and stuff

[grand trail]

true

[vestal wren]

Unpopular opinion

[atomic rune]

oh no

in this context

it can only mean one thing

[vestal wren]

I did like that you could go into the first Legion raid and pickpocket poe mythic items

[atomic rune]

Oh wow

Honestly

Kinda based

[near valley]

PoE items pog

[vestal wren]

I know there was a lot of hate due to that, but it's not different to people boe fatming

Farming*

[near valley]

Crossover interactions

[marble hemlock]

*boe

[vestal wren]

Thanks

[marble hemlock]

was confused for a second

😄

[atomic rune]

I got a 6 link from a trash mob

[gusty mirage]

fuu's gonna play poe confirmed

you heard it here first boys

[marble hemlock]

fuu would have a field day with poe methinks

[vestal wren]

Poe 2 when?

[marble hemlock]

not soon enough

[gusty mirage]

until chris wilson's vision is realized and you spawn 1 alt shard

[atomic rune]

[boreal cloud]

Wish I could play no button RF build in WoW sometimes

Explode BV in M+

[atomic rune]

give me rain of arrow toxic pods in WoW for torghast

[gusty mirage]

@marble hemlock why did you quit poe when I started

wtf is this man

[marble hemlock]

cuz you started when poe became worse?

we can play gloomhaven together

[gusty mirage]

how dare you

sentinel was goated

sanctum was also goated

we ignore kalandra and crucible leagues

and it's been the best its ever been

[earnest remnant]

U keep saying the game is good. But on voice u curse it out

[near valley]

I think the kids nowadays call this behaviour

A "tsundere"

[fast belfry]

does anyone know if ptr will be up after the preview?

[grand trail]

yes

[spice surge]

One would assume so

[near valley]

Depends what u mean

[spice surge]

Nobody knows anything though

[near valley]

Like straight after, who knows?

If u mean from after its done till the heat death of the universe, sure

[grand trail]

ptr will be up AFTER preview and not BEFORE is all i can say

[gusty mirage]

it is

the game is good

but I hate dying

and chris wants me to die

[earnest remnant]

Fair

[gusty mirage]

and every time you die in poe you lose 10% experience

which isn't an issue at like level 82

but at level 98

that's a few hours of maps

[earnest remnant]

[gusty mirage]

now you know why I mald

all the time playing it

but I also can't play a tanky slow build

I wanna zoom and delete shit

which means I sometimes get oopsie daisy one shot

[shy pecan]

Play hardcore 🙂

[earnest remnant]

Git gud

[gusty mirage]

if you want me to go away forever I can just uninstall discord man

why do you want me to people's elbow my computer

[marble hemlock]

just become sebbe

[shy pecan]

I use to enjoy PoE hardcore all the time. Was fun

[gusty mirage]

ngl

I've considered just playing a tankier build and playing HC

because I watched my forbidden flame get price fixed to 72 fucking divine

[shy pecan]

Then my game would crash all the time

[gusty mirage]

it went up almost 30 div in 24 hours

I waited another day and it went back down to 45

lol

price fixing is a bitch in SC trade

[rain peak]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[near valley]

I'm more of a Cold Stone Stunner man myself

[ancient rain]

im so excited for the rogue rework thats gonna be announced tonight in the official 10.2 preview

[grand trail]

which rework

[silk bane]

I already made a rework bingo for myself. pretty sure im gonna win the sin part

[errant swallow]

And legendary?

10am PDT, right?

[vestal wren]

19 cest

so ~ <t:1694106000:R>

[silk bane]

fuu, do you wanna guess as to the sin changes?

or sub. though im not sure about sub at all

[vestal wren]

sure, sin tree:

• exsang gone
• new ability
• seal fate in the sin tree
• no more 3 pointers (2 pointers now)
• shadowstep baseline
• more connctors

[near valley]

DB buffed to all hell or DTB moved would be a contender

[rocky ruin]

Zoldyck getting reduce

[hearty reef]

shadowstep as a talent connecting to things was so awkward

[vestal wren]

most of them ar not rly guesses, but stuff that was hinted

[shy pecan]

A little more AoE

[grand trail]

no aoe for assa confirmed

[river ember]

Straight up make IC a 30 second cd

[vestal wren]

think there will be a focus on aoe for assa

idk maybe they remove ic too?

[gusty mirage]

nah doubt IC gets removed

[vestal wren]

tbh will be interessting to see what exactly changes

[gusty mirage]

we might see another aoe capstone but IC is generally well received

[near valley]

Omega buffed FoK

[gusty mirage]

only seli and like 3 other people are angry about it

[grand trail]

i like IC

[steel ridge]

been saying that since beta

[river ember]

I much prefer dot aoe dmg to dumping into an aoe finisher ad nauseam like black powder

[gusty mirage]

also @silk bane didn't ask me

[vestal wren]

ye possible too, just randomly guessing at this point

[silk bane]

i think they are very good guesses u have above. Im gonna guess

IC stays

[near valley]

AP removed for something else? Or reworked

[silk bane]

but it changes in either -> longe rduration / more poewrful bleeds/ or loewr target counts

[gusty mirage]

yeah the problem with IC is it just feels like a QoL thing, which is kinda weak when it's a capstone

[silk bane]

then AP gets buffed. could make sin a strong spec foe 4-5 target cleave

[vestal wren]

the problem with IC is it feels like a band aid

[near valley]

Ew

[gusty mirage]

yep

[near valley]

Sin trying to steal my niches

[gusty mirage]

because that's all it really is

in the best light, it cuts down the ramp at the start of a pack

[vestal wren]

this is why i could see ic purged

[gusty mirage]

in the worst light, it's making you feel like you're doing aoe damage

[vestal wren]

if blizz attempts to rework the aoe part of the spec

[silk bane]

its true, it is a bandaid. but thats only because its a 45 second cd.

[gusty mirage]

why does the CD matter though

syncs well with ER so you always have a 7cp rupture

[silk bane]

if IC was longer cd but made your bleeds stronger or had any actual effects to it, then it could be treated as an actula CD. like a 2 min or 90 sec cd other classes have

[void mesa]

Never syncs with vanish so you can only get a clean IC ever so often on long pulls

[vestal wren]

would be funny