assassination

[gusty mirage]

I'm having a morning ok

[near valley]

Not the level u want

[gusty mirage]

don't bully me

[near valley]

I'm sorry bro

[spice surge]

I mean obviously its gonna be lower

But it might still be worthwhile

[near valley]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-animals-monkey-hug-gif-12347613

[gusty mirage]

considering a 441 beats a 450

you're not wrong

lol

[past bobcat]

My friend got it off another rogue who it dropped for and he told him Nick of time is a lower ilvl it’s not good for you and he traded it 😂

[gusty mirage]

I assume the heroic one will be champion track

so 437?

[spice surge]

That is indeed going to make it significantly less ass

[near valley]

Probably

Indeed

[spice surge]

[grand trail]

still simming old numbers:(

how you sim 138k eleem

[subtle tundra]

Skill

[vestal wren]

did you get it to drop?

[spice surge]

Using aura overrides like whispyr did in the pins

I did not get it no

[gusty mirage]

nah we're having fun with assuming the heroic one upgrades to 437

[blazing jewel]

[spice surge]

I was just simming how big of an upgrade it would be from HC when that is released

[vestal wren]

oh, excelent

[grand trail]

i got it from raid last week

(this week)

[spice surge]

Its probably going to be 424 since thats what all other HC dungeon items are upgradeable to

But even at that ilvl its still a +400 dps for me (although my offhand dagger has lots of vers on it, not great)

[gusty mirage]

twinning

[quiet oar]

Congrats my boi

[gusty mirage]

except I don't have a sark dagger still

[past bobcat]

How’s is yours 1240 damage but mine when it dropped was only 920

[narrow pelican]

447 oce is simming higher than 457 class trinket for me

[grand trail]

where do i copy this overwrite? in header?

[blazing jewel]

is it even that good for sin

compared to all other trinkets

[spice surge]

Its not even accurate as it doesnt account for the auto attack stuff, raidbots should be getting updated very shortly anyway, but yes

[gusty mirage]

why wouldn't it be

[grand trail]

okay

[spice surge]

OCE with all buffs typically sim slightly higher than class trinket

[blazing jewel]

well compared to beacon/bomb

[gusty mirage]

beacon

lol

you mean the trinket where if you don't crit does as much damage as a mythic+ trinket that isn't dice?

[blazing jewel]

o_O

[grand trail]

classs trinket let you high roll very much tho? or down roll 😄

compared to essence

[gusty mirage]

unless you happen to think +700 mastery is game changing

[spice surge]

#assassination message
And also assa, idk if you checked as sub

[gusty mirage]

smell ya later sub bros

[blazing jewel]

I know attacks dont matter that much

but is that with or without the attack buff

I saw the %aura got implemented

[gusty mirage]

that is without auto attack

toss another 400-500 to it

for aa damage

[gilded oasis]

I feel so STRONG today. Im bis

[blazing jewel]

pog

[grand trail]

not strong enough

[gilded oasis]

its ok I fixed it

[sudden canyon]

not even 5% smh

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

you're an artist

[grand trail]

idk how to sim gear upgrades witht hat overwrite tho

[gusty mirage]

only thing it would change about gearing

is essence and dice will be a little bit better than they were last week

[spice surge]

Compared to stuff like beacon and bomb

[gusty mirage]

I'm surprised the changes aren't live on simc yet

tbh

seri had the commit ready 4 days ago

[cyan crown]

Hey guys, new here from the Feral Discord. How’s Assa doing, is the 5% buff fixing all your guy’s problems or not?

[gilded oasis]

not

[gusty mirage]

we're less pathetic in ST

still dogshit in m+

[gilded oasis]

ok rude

[gusty mirage]

[gilded oasis]

[grand trail]

yeah i wanted simm if i still need thorn for my exploisive boiots

[gusty mirage]

if you have literally nothing else to craft (inc rings/neck)

probably worth it to make them

I made them when I had my neck/rings crafted

[cyan crown]

Fair enough, thanks for the short summary 😅 Do you recommend picking the class up as an alt to my Feral or are times that bad atm?

[grand trail]

yeah i have two sets of rings and neck already

which i had for m+ so i could use them for assa

[gusty mirage]

it's def worth giving a shot, worst case you can always try out sub if you don't like assassination

like we'll do solid ST damage, but nowhere near the broken classes

plus with the 10.2 rework around the corner (2-2.5 months out)

you'll have your rogue ready to rock

[cyan crown]

Ohh I didn’t know about this, is it looking promising? Have they released any actual info beyond ‘Rogue rework inc’?

[spice surge]

No details yet

[subtle kiln]

feral tbh is a smoother playing version of assa. if you’re not interested in sub or outlaw to mix it up probably try something different.

[gusty mirage]

realz has given us some hints, but nothing huge

don't listen to the ret pally main

[subtle kiln]

feral is a better version of assa

[gusty mirage]

not really

[errant swallow]

Latest build updated yet?

[gusty mirage]

not yet

[errant swallow]

Trying to sim on phone while at work

Thanks @gusty mirage

[gusty mirage]

[subtle kiln]

just add 4.2%. sim done

[slate crown]

Is it safe to just assume current output +5%?

[gusty mirage]

pins will outline the exact %s

4.2% is a safe amount to add

[errant swallow]

Would you please @ me when they are? Maybe I'm asking too much.

[slate crown]

okie thx

[gusty mirage]

aye aye cap'n

[errant swallow]

Yeah, I did 4%

[gusty mirage]

yeah roughly 4% is the aura buff then add like 0.1-0.2 for the auto attack damage

[cerulean nest]

is Nightly ready to go now?

sorry just scrolled up

I retract the question

[grand trail]

its not

[blazing jewel]

why tf

is double wafting simming higher for me

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oLPVdcSGVbKnYQFhQP4ksu

[balmy condor]

Be like that

[past bobcat]

Wait you still only sim 134k on ass rogue with all that?

[blazing jewel]

thats without the buff

[balmy condor]

Jesus Christ

[past bobcat]

Ahh ok I was like my sub sims 136k and you’ve got some better pieces

[blazing jewel]

just trying to setup my recrafts for raid

[grand trail]

man its giga cringe not having wf totem in raid

but having fucking resto

[past bobcat]

Yeah no wf riot

[rotund oak]

yeah bro,ur gear sucks so much

🤣

[blazing jewel]

real

I dont have a socket for crafted bracers or I would be using those

[rotund oak]

im gonna play assassination for raids just because u made me h@rny with ur logs

just sayin

im hyped even for m+ with ind carnage

looks fun and the tech is fine

[earnest remnant]

weak

[blazing jewel]

xd

what even are the differences in our gear

[earnest remnant]

dunno

[blazing jewel]

wrists?

[earnest remnant]

i dont have cloak tho

[blazing jewel]

weird

cloak is like 700 for sin I think

[earnest remnant]

1200 for me

[blazing jewel]

think I might see my gear issue

lemme wait 9 years in sim queue

[thorn fjord]

Bing Bong

Hoping we can manage getting to p2 today without people dying

[ripe basin]

what weapon runes you use?

[blazing jewel]

buzzing

[grand trail]

i sim under 132k

but i dont have cloak which is like 1300+ and dagger 750 or nick of time another 1k 😄

[blazing jewel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fxHDVrMHMiFDsukMUaAmTk
@earnest remnant MAY HAVE FOUND THE ISSUE

[midnight mist]

why does it say 449 ilvl tf

[blazing jewel]

why not

[midnight mist]

give me some maybe ?

[blazing jewel]

give this

[grand trail]

everyone bis geared

[midnight mist]

[thorn fjord]

[blazing jewel]

think 135k may be incoming

HOLD

[thorn fjord]

Straight to the moon

Running my sims now waiting to be dissapointed lol

[grand trail]

man fix sims already! 😄

[earnest remnant]

imagine it, i have neither Class trinket mythic or the sark cloak

[blazing jewel]

rip I thought you had class trinket

never lucky

[subtle kiln]

that’s the updated sim number at 449?

[blazing jewel]

report the people taking it from you

not updated

[subtle kiln]

was going to say i was expecting it to actually be better than my ret. lol

[blazing jewel]

it is

ret is smelly

[subtle kiln]

446 and 134k not even “humanoid padding”

I had hope assa. I had hope.

[blazing jewel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v9Y77rsFU36rXuku7zhyAy

why is my sim so tempermental wtf

now its back to double sophic

??????????????????????????

[short forge]

hey guys, just got back from my vacation and I'm seeing we get a 5% ability + 5% auto atk boost - how much of a boost is it overall for us?

[subtle kiln]

latest getting updated? idk. do a higher number of iterations

[blazing jewel]

pins

[blazing jewel]

im just bad at simming

[subtle kiln]

i know mine gets goofy since all secondaries are really fucking close

[blazing jewel]

yea

forgot to sim rings with having haste/mast as a craft option

and now it wants to go back double sophic

[subtle tundra]

wat da hell

449 ilvl

[subtle kiln]

what about runes?

[blazing jewel]

I highly doubt it wants to change runes

[subtle kiln]

doesn’t hurt to try

[blazing jewel]

what would i even swap it to

ap?

[subtle kiln]

no

crit/haste/mastery see which combos come out best

[short forge]

did anything change about our rotation?

[proven jasper]

No

[blazing jewel]

you may be on to something here lol

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ryJmX7TiUf99PqQbBgCoJu

[subtle kiln]

so basically what happens, at least with ret. because everything is usable you can really tinker with runes and combos

now put a 326 sinful brand offhand on

[blazing jewel]

thats for subti only

the one man cook

[subtle kiln]

did you try it?

[stable field]

whats the best flask for assa why i see some play vers some corupting one

[blazing jewel]

not yet lol

[balmy condor]

Corrupting is better but it does damage to you so if you’re scared of that you run vers

[grand trail]

corruption with class trinket for real mans

man im sitting here wiating for my sims to work so i can cook my gear for tommorow

[night crag]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vital haven]

Hello fellow sin rogue players

[blazing jewel]

[near valley]

They don't exist

Who are you?

[errant swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-there-hi-there-greetings-gif-9442662

[ruby birch]

hello my fellow alchemists

it is i, one of you

i have always been an alchemist believer

[blazing jewel]

are you still a sinful enchant believer

[quiet oar]

Gale strike should be better

Thats what eleem said

But He couldnt sim it

[blazing jewel]

delete this

[subtle kiln]

can you just force the oh weapon ilvl

[blazing jewel]

[subtle kiln]

er can’t

[quiet oar]

Yeah but raidbots wont sim it

[grand trail]

still simming old unbuffed assa:(

[white orchid]

Yea same lol

[thorn fjord]

@blazing jewel I suck https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jHGQFGAoWbyXrMM4538X5X

[blazing jewel]

death to the lizard so you can claim your dagger

[thorn fjord]

Maybe i get lucky and get attack speed dagger today

[fallow canopy]

wtb nick of time

[thorn fjord]

Found some gains via crafting... should get an extra 1.5k

[past bobcat]

What did you end up simming?

With buffs

[strange python]

Echo prog starting soon, and just in time to start with the fight being nerfed. Nice.

[blazing jewel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2UUk7j3zgerwQZy5CPoWWT

[past bobcat]

Cap really

[errant swallow]

Raidbots updated?

[runic hinge]

Your gear is so juiced

[errant swallow]

Fr

[past bobcat]

No way, you should be at 140k no? Or does that not show buffs

My sub sims higher

[errant swallow]

He should be at 141,148 after buffs

[blazing jewel]

raidbots isnt updated

[past bobcat]

Ahh I see

[grand trail]

raaidbot slack

[burnt latch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r9ZDLrES5RAaTmGgpRWK2A

Mby mastery runes would push me over

[blazing jewel]

yea they were slightly higher for me

have to sim gem combos and stuff with it though

[burnt latch]

eh haste seems to be the best

Got me beat

Maybe yeah gems would do sth but cba swapping cuz current ones work for sub too

[pseudo hamlet]

Why my DPS is so low on Kazzara? It's because of my opener?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nYAcPZHTCt2QvVBX#fight=3&type=casts&source=49&view=timeline

[burnt latch]

How the hell are you fighting kazzara for 6 minutes lmao

Youre also dead for 2 out of those 6 minutes

[stiff thicket]

and you garrote uptime is 5.48%

rupture uptime 2.64%

[burnt latch]

Its a bait

[ancient rain]

that's damage done not uptime

[stiff thicket]

there are some very good rogues here that could help you

[spice spire]

Ur literally master Herbert

And got baited by your own shtick

[burnt latch]

The 6 minute kill got me

Threw me off my game

[pseudo hamlet]

But the opener is good?

[burnt latch]

Yeah mint condition

[spice spire]

Mint julep even

[ancient rain]

You casted Rupture 1 time and Garrote 2 times the entire fight. you're supposed to keep them up all the time

[spice spire]

Just gotta work on positioning, defensives, healing, awareness, so on so forth

[burnt latch]

Oh no they fell for it hard

[spice spire]

This is a hall of famer

Potential first ballot

Damn

[burnt latch]

It truly is

Im very impressed

[thick sable]

Why cast Rupture once at all? Wasted a perfectly good envenom

[spice spire]

Gonna take this back to the not NOCCO lab

[burnt latch]

Gotta be studied, documented and reproduced

Humanity saving stuff

@spice spire are u proud of me im doing community service tomorrow helping out a guild progging echo of nelths

Such wholesome

Such kind

[spice spire]

You should have been helping mine man

[burnt latch]

You guys are too good to acquire outside assistance

[subtle kiln]

is bringing a rogue to that fight helping? 💀

i’m waiting to see quakeone pump today

[blazing jewel]

rogue is good scath

[subtle kiln]

godbless

[spice spire]

Quake one is missing raid today

[royal lantern]

well, destiny is dead for me, fulltime wow gamer now

[burnt latch]

I think for guilds that are progressing that fight this late bringing anything that lives the whole 7 minutes is helping

[spice spire]

True

[royal lantern]

mate

thats the #1 advice for every guild that is not WR100 or higher lol

[burnt latch]

Honestly i think its good advice for any guild outside top 10 tbh LOL

Usually dps checks are a joke at that point

[royal lantern]

like

the amount of wipes cus somone wants to do more dmg

is insane

just stay alive and boss is dead

[burnt latch]

Truth

[blazing jewel]

outside of early prog I feel like all dps checks sort of vanish

[burnt latch]

Yeah definetly has felt that way the last couple of tiers

Last time i felt like I needed to push damage was the crab in sofo

[blazing jewel]

dont get me wrong having high dps only makes the fights easier

but not required

[burnt latch]

Amd even that fight I didnt prog that early, around wr 100 ish

It’d already been given the big nerf with balls and bombs

[blazing jewel]

herbo the ballmancer defeated the crab

[burnt latch]

That fight was so much fun stg

Best fight ive played

Crab + Sire

[blazing jewel]

I never did it for mythic prog but in s4 that was one of my favorite bosses

[royal lantern]

bro, where is SLG and KT??

[burnt latch]

You would’ve loved the og version, they kinda ruined the boss with the lenient bomb timers and less bombs

[blazing jewel]

the no missing attacks

was actually noticeable on sub

made crab guy more fun

[burnt latch]

But tbh it was too hard for regular guilds to get through in a reasonable time in the early state so its good they did nerf it tbh

Oh yeah that was so good

[blazing jewel]

or on enh with hothands lawdddd

[burnt latch]

Yeah enha and sub were r1 and r2 on that boss iirc

Atleast in s3, probably a fucking destro lock in s4

[blazing jewel]

[subtle kiln]

of course. just gotta keep living the meme dream

on god idk how I’m so high on our dps at times, but I’m also not dead.

the real struggle is not nuking your frienemies

[strange python]

are sims not up[dated?

[grand trail]

nope still same build from 20th

[strange python]

wtffffff

[peak lake]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[plucky quail]

Sepsis opener pic in the faq is the current build, correct?

[pseudo hamlet]

yes

[plucky quail]

Thank you

[agile osprey]

@keen spruce @pure moth

[pure moth]

Yup, im good for usual time 830 est

[slate crown]

I have done it, I have crafted my toxic boots yipee

[cerulean nest]

no time dagger 🙂

why

[balmy condor]

time dagger isn't real

it can't hurt you

[cerulean nest]

then why do I feel pain

[agile osprey]

Go find yourself a dagger squad

Apes. Together. Strong.

[balmy condor]

because you're weak and fragile minded

bend the spoon neo

[cerulean nest]

I dont have a simp army like the rest of you

[balmy condor]

I have to pug my mega dungeon too dw

[pure moth]

5 rogue dungeon 830 est?

What could possibly go wrong?

[past bobcat]

Got it yesterday and insta left the pug group after

[balmy condor]

you wanna trade me one today?

[past bobcat]

I’ll rogue stack if anyone needs to increase chances

[balmy condor]

@brazen zodiac do you have dagger

[brazen zodiac]

what dagger

[balmy condor]

megadungy

[brazen zodiac]

no i havent even done it yet lmao

[balmy condor]

that's okay you wanna come do it

it's 2 bosses very simple

[brazen zodiac]

ooo one sec

am omw c:

what r the bosses rq so i can watch a lil guide ;o

[balmy condor]

you don't need a guide

[brazen zodiac]

heard

am on

[gilded oasis]

me too

[keen spruce]

[balmy condor]

u wanna come?

[gilded oasis]

let me see if I need to save myself

[agile osprey]

I wonder if your group will go 4 weeks dry too?

[strange python]

Ive seen only a couple weapons drop in the mega dungo. So rare again x_x

[agile osprey]

[gilded oasis]

ye I can go if you have a spot, logging over

[balmy condor]

kk dm me ign

[thorn fjord]

Whispyr… a man of the people

[pure moth]

Did it drop?

[gilded oasis]

si

[balmy condor]

dropped for inmem

[gilded oasis]

ah hell staff takes 2 sparks

[pure moth]

Cool

[runic hinge]

I should try and find some traders when I can get a run in this week

[sudden wadi]

anyone know what atrophic poison actually reduces on sark?

[balmy condor]

everything

well

not quite

echoing howl doesn't get reduced

but everything else

[spice surge]

Not the disintigrate beam either, but yes the vast majority of the damage is reduced

[balmy condor]

disintigrate beam gets reduced

[spice surge]

Its not from sark

So it shouldnt be reduced

right?

[balmy condor]

yeh it is

[spice surge]

"Mass disintegrate" not from the boss

[balmy condor]

oh oh you mean those

not the debuff

yeah the little clone stuff

[winged veldt]

Legit how the fuck has this game not dropped a bomb for my raid group and havent gotten it in vault either lol. Shit is tilting af lol

from week one til now 0. Like huh lol

[tribal spear]

hey guys. do i need to refresh rupture for ful duration before i press deathmark or can i refresh rupture in pandemic window while deathmark is running?

[balmy condor]

can refresh whenever

[errant swallow]

Raidbots still not updated 😮

[balmy condor]

just pretend like the number at the end of your sim went up 5%

[winged veldt]

lol!

[errant swallow]

Yeah did that lol

[clever sapphire]

but i dont do math

[balmy condor]

unlucky

[clever sapphire]

by the way whispyr, just so you know. Tryan and tiramil both praised me today for having an actually good take

so im not only cursed

just mostly

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/froge-frog-petting-frog-mmmmyes-pet-froge-speech-bubble-gif-25250684

[zealous summit]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[clever sapphire]

it was a memorable moment

[subtle kiln]

imagine it took an outlaw otp trying to fix assa in m+ to have a lucid thought. now you have to do it again.

[clever sapphire]

i have my limits

one good take a season

[blazing jewel]

BRO IM IN SARK BOMB PRISON TONIGHT

WHY NOW

[earnest remnant]

take the L bozo

[blazing jewel]

I WANT 100s NOT LIKE THIS

[spice surge]

Getting 100 L's instead

Get smoked bozo

[blazing jewel]

[atomic star]

do you hold 2nd deathmark for 5 minutes on mythic mag or nah?

it seems correct to me but all the logs i look at dont do it

[spice surge]

Youll lose most of your 4p value of the last deathmark if you do

[earnest remnant]

also wouldnt that be third

and not 2nd

[spice surge]

Also most top logs are probably not killing it at 5:30, but more like 5:10 or even under 5

[balmy condor]

on prog you should hold for potion

and just sack the tier

but yeah, as the kills get shorter and shorter on farm

it just ain't worth

[frozen iris]

Socket vs 441 essence vs 447 mark of dargul. I have bomb and dice and trinket from last boss in mega dungeon.

[gilded oasis]

prob socket but id sim the trinkets and sim a socket and see which one comes out ahead

[runic hinge]

441 essence is pretty good if you have all the buffs

[frozen iris]

That’s only good in raiding right?

[nova flax]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gilded oasis]

I think its only good in raid yes. bomb/dice is probably a better combo for m+

[balmy condor]

definitely not a socket with a mark of dargul

that trinket ass

so

probably the essence if you have all the buffs

or just a socket and cry

[gilded oasis]

essence for m+ tho?

[balmy condor]

could be okay but usually the other people aren't running it

so

if no other buffs -> ass

[silk bane]

hi mista whispa does hikili tell my what my stat breakdowns should be so i can get haste for that energy regen so i can ct in st because exsang is very well designed and is 5% buff = assa bis in keys?

[balmy condor]

I hate you

[silk bane]

pls dont ban me i just wanted to meme. im gonna be a good boy now

[celest helm]

is it ever worth crimson tempest on ST

[tired night]

The ST build doesn't run it

[celest helm]

thinking in m+ scenarios on boss fights, i havent really been using it on ST but curious if it actually has any value to maintain

[subtle tundra]

where my ptr 😦

[balmy condor]

if you have poison bomb, no

[pure moth]

@agile osprey @keen spruce loggin in

[keen spruce]

[agile osprey]

[celest helm]

ty!

[tired night]

Do talents change on 2 target or is it same build with multi-dotting?

[balmy condor]

drop venom rush for CT

but there's no situation right now where you would want to do that

[tired night]

Not even nelth or sark?

[balmy condor]

those are single target fights

[tired night]

Oh I should have specified for priority damage. It's still a ST increase to maintain rupture and garrote on a 2nd target right?

[balmy condor]

if you play for prio damage you never talent CT

but yes

you dot the big adds

and that's it

[tired night]

Still just standard ST build if it's for priority damage? Okay cool that's what I thought. What target number is it not a ST increase to maintain rupture+garrote on extra targets anymore?

[balmy condor]

anything over 2

sark/nelth you gar/rup the big add

and then back to boss

[tired night]

Okay cool thought so

Do you rupture friendly MCs since they are likely to live the whole duration or do you stop getting venomous wounds when they go back to friendly?

[balmy condor]

don't do that

[tired night]

Oh yeah that's 3 targets so I should be tempesting

[balmy condor]

you don't run tempest in raid

but also just don't rupture allys

it's not worth

[grim tangle]

dont rupture them, kidney shot them

[balmy condor]

don't hit them at all

it's damage on player

[past forum]

My raid had a handful of hunters who like to hold up wipes with feign to save a few gold on repairs. My peak rogue moment was when I was mc’d when a wipe was called. Blind 1 hunter, kidney another, dance cheap the others.

[subtle tundra]

my goal is usually to make sure the hunters dont feign

[gilded oasis]

But if a lock is MCd then make sure you fok for cps

Or if you are MCd big fok lots of cps

[gray crest]

I may or maynot have been running without a chest enchant for a month

not sure what the time frame was

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/670758470848610312/1057003203742412800/skate.gif

[tall atlas]

Dw last season I crafted a spell dagger and did all of mythic terros prog with it

Sad part was I was still like mostly top close to top dam

[indigo epoch]

why is assas considered F tier for M+ and sub S or A tier? I'm slow...but i just dont see the split. is it just numbers?

[gray crest]

dot specs in general are not good in m+

[frozen iris]

Yes and no. Subs rotation for aoe is pretty easy dependent on who you ask. Ass is reliant on our 45 sec cooldown which sub doesnt have that limitation.

[spice surge]

Sub does some of the highest damage in the game and assa does some of the lowest (probably the lowest actually) in the game in an m+ setting

[frozen iris]

Alsoe what Eleem said.

[indigo epoch]

thanks folks.

[frozen iris]

You should pick what you want to play unless your pushing 25s. or something like that. I find it hard just to get into groups at 21+

[indigo epoch]

nah ill stick with assas, i really dont enjoy sub and just play <20 keys

[frozen iris]

Same here.

[tired night]

Sub has insane sustained AoE with virtually 0 setup or damage downtime

[eager solstice]

raidbots up to date with new buff?

[tired night]

And is one of the very few specs that doesn't sacrifice a ton of ST to get AoE damage

[earnest remnant]

nope

[maiden sierra]

how are the buffs looking like?

did we go from dogshit to middle of the pack?

[tired night]

I sim the same as sub with the buffs but can use essence instead of beacon so I'm all aboard

[vestal rivet]

how far over the crit cap do i go until i swap prio to mastery?

[gusty mirage]

there is no crit cap

just sim your gear in https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear and you'll be good to go

don't overthink secondaries

[balmy condor]

we went from bad overall and good boss damage to bad overall and great boss damage

[maiden sierra]

i feel like calling sins boss damage as good is a cope
mythic sark prog is dreadfull when i look at Spriest and unholy doing 10mil more damage to sark than me on sin...

granted they get pi and evoker buff and im looking at details and not logs. but my dps meter ego is shattered this season either way 😢

[balmy condor]

I mean you can call it a cope but it is one of the best boss damage specs in the game and competitive with some of the PI specs out of the box

[maiden sierra]

personal opinion: if a spec designed around st damage, that doesnt do cleave or aoe well, has no real utility besides a passive dr poison, if its not at least in the top 3 st dps specs in the game then its badly tuned.
unholy for example is in the same boat as sin, but is tuned right and is in the top 3 st dps.

why take a sin rogue when you can take a warlock that does more st and aoe and has utility?
why take a sin rogue when you can take a Sub that does the same st but can also do aoe?

spec design wise, the numbers are lacking.

though again that is my opinion on the standard of game ballance taking into account spec design.

[subtle tundra]

rogue survivability has been a real reason to get them

[maiden sierra]

hunters do the same but from range

[daring trail]

No they dont. Hunters dont have a 4th of the survivability that rogues have

[maiden sierra]

so do paladins these days after the rework

[daring trail]

Hunters have a physical bubble. We have a full immunity that cleanses us

We automatically take 40% reduced AOE dmg if using FEint correctly

and we have Cheat death

Hunters get nothing more than a 2 minutes heal

[balmy condor]

I mean that's where it is though

assa is the best non-pi spec

I don't know what the complaint it

how much better does it need to be

[daring trail]

Yeah imagine if haste actually meant a damn to us

[maiden sierra]

non-pi. thats the point, class design takes part in these statistics.
taking pi out because "we dont scale well" is ignoring the whole point of designing classes with their strenghts.
if a class does high damage without pi and scales really well of it as well is part of game design.
we cant just say "we dont scale of pi but its fine because if it doesnt exist we are 5th highest"

[daring trail]

If PI didn't exist we would be number 1

[balmy condor]

that's 5th highest with pi existing

[daring trail]

and Unholy would be bottom tier DPS outside its burst windows

[balmy condor]

that's why I said the highest non-pi

everything above assa in that graph is a pi spec

[daring trail]

and all those specs gain upwards of 10k dmg from PI

[maiden sierra]

looking at it again, its 50th precentile

[balmy condor]

correct

[maiden sierra]

on 1 day logs

[balmy condor]

correct

[maiden sierra]

need more data

[balmy condor]

aight

the goal posts grew legs

but whatever

[daring trail]

Look it up then. the data is all on Warcraftlogs

[balmy condor]

it's clear that you just think assa isn't good enough

and there's nothing that's gonna convince you otherwise

[maiden sierra]

dont get me wrong, i mean that the logs are showing were different numbers over multiple stages of precentiles because of lack of logs due to a short time limit since buff.
need to get the logs all sorted even after a couple of days

[daring trail]

Well you come back next week and tell us what you found.

[maiden sierra]

that is true.
(btw im not here to argue that im right or smth, i just have an opinion and i like talking about it in detailed numbers with others 🙂 )

[daring trail]

It's more about you stated an opinion, Whispyr showed you objective data to state that indeed Sin is not as bad off in it's niche as you believed, and then your answer to that was "need more data". Like my brother in Christ are you serious lol

[balmy condor]

it was like above average before this

but the middle is very close

with the 5% overall it's just cranking

[maiden sierra]

yes.

[grim tangle]

I'm concerned that anybody would look at a damage to bosses graph of all bosses at 50th percentile of one day and think it proves anything one way or the other

[maiden sierra]

sounds good to me. ill be testing it in the morning on sark to see how big if a differance it makes!

[balmy condor]

is this better?

it's more data

with the 5% added in green to the bar

puts us 120 dps ahead of afflic

[grim tangle]

well if this made up data doesn't convince you nothing will!

[maiden sierra]

thats stil 50th precentile, i would never use data from that samble pool.
90th precentile and no higher or lower is my usual samples i use

[balmy condor]

I actually cba anymore

holy fuck

[cerulean nest]

samble

[maiden sierra]

nono, i appriciate your graphs and insight. it looks good to me, i just like a more broad view on things

[balmy condor]

this is the most broad view

it's legit an average mythic raider

they aren't gonna tune for the top 10%

[daring trail]

If you looked at 90th percantile your view would be default be narrower cause you're looking at the top 10% instead of top 50%

I need a drink for this headache

[gray crest]

its ok, reading is hard

[maiden sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/forgive-you-all-your-sins-pastor-sins-forgiven-wave-gif-20280224

[brazen zodiac]

have a great rest of your day whispyr <3

[maiden sierra]

bedtime, gn lads.

[cerulean nest]

gonna need to see a broader gn message before I buy in

[maiden sierra]

BEDTIME, GN LADS

[cerulean nest]

mm idk I guess I'll wait and see

[blazing jewel]

sin buffs feel pretty good boyos

[runic hinge]

You would bring the feelcraft

[blazing jewel]

huhh?

[runic hinge]

You would

[blazing jewel]

how is that feelcraft

[runic hinge]

You said feel

[blazing jewel]

feel this

[runic hinge]

Omw

[blazing jewel]

151k to kaz

we cannot be stopped

stealthi going to take me to gapplebees when he raids

[strange python]

how come throw knife vanish doesnt work to reset a boss

it half works

[rotund oak]

assa tech too stronk now 📈

[blazing jewel]

think you need to be max range for it to work

[balmy condor]

also poisons fuck it

there's weird combat-locking with it

idk

[strange python]

this is weird af. melees then resets

[balmy condor]

yeh

that's a classic

[rotund oak]

U lost some weight or what

[balmy condor]

?

[rotund oak]

u look like uve lost some weight

(not trolling)

[balmy condor]

I have not

[rotund oak]

more assa tech from now on btw,got inlove with ind carnage

:3

assa gods bless me withknowledge

[sweet dawn]

Oke don't let the others know about this one

You stealth

You press IC

THEN

Garrote

[rotund oak]

u cant log like @blazing jewel with just that

more info

[blazing jewel]

absolutely dont do anything I did tonight I am so fried

[rotund oak]

im watching ur every move from now on

[earnest remnant]

recrafting my gear tmrw

[grim tangle]

did you enjoy your swim on magmorax

[blazing jewel]

dude that was good

it wasnt a small swim either

[earnest remnant]

u did a me?

rough

[blazing jewel]

yea

1 sec ill send

LAVA UNDER YOU

[earnest remnant]

yeah i hear thats not good for dps

[blazing jewel]

worst part is I had shadowstep but my eyes must have been closed

[earnest remnant]

well i had not slept for two days when i did it

and i just stepped 0.1sec to quick

[blazing jewel]

pog

[earnest remnant]

so it was a long ass waddle back to the boss

[rotund oak]

nooooooooooo whispyr turned off the stream

i just made coffee

[earnest remnant]

@gusty mirage am i getting that cloak or?

3min til vault open

[grand trail]

i see Pi abuser

sims still not updated kek?

[earnest remnant]

welp another useless vault

[gusty mirage]

yes

[earnest remnant]

[balmy condor]

**Sims are good to go! Updated:<t:1692827640:R> **

The auto-attack stuff is suspicious and we are looking into it. This is incredibly minor overall. Also fixed, everything working as intended

Some info:

• Irideus fragment is still oversimming by about 18% This kills the trinket pretty much and you'd only really use it if you have nothing else.

• Since auto attacks are included in this buff, this is much closer to 5% than the previous 5%ers. It still doesn't include trinkets like beacon/bomb, and these will lose value relative to stat trinkets.

• If you have dice/nelth/chromatic orb, it's a little better than last week

• 5% will make us better, but we're still single target boss killer PoV. This shouldn't impact your view of the meta vs subtlety in overall damage. We are however one of the best boss damage specs in the game now, right up there with PI specs like unholy, aff/demo, and mages. This is a great position to be in.

• Impact on m+ meta is non-existant, we're still dogshit, play sub and wait for 10.2

Single target:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/htJftk57DoNTL9v4SrSYAP
135,467 -> 141,072
(+4.1%)

Dungeonslice:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jRr99Vvx94dSqg1RRikaH9
137,502 -> 143,359
(+4.3%)

[earnest remnant]

im 100% convinced that i will never see that cloak

[gusty mirage]

oh

that's your problem

you opened it as outlaw

dummy

[earnest remnant]

im probably just taking the crafting thing tbh

so i can craft two items this week

so i dont need to recraft my sub gear to assa

[gusty mirage]

just get the tier helm

one less thing to craft

[earnest remnant]

i think i do have it

[gusty mirage]

then make crit mastery rings

keep crit vers for raid

[earnest remnant]

close enough

[gusty mirage]

[earnest remnant]

these would be my assa rings

one is crit/mast

its just head i would change and id make new wrists with toxic patch for assa

i think

need to do some simming i guess

[blazing jewel]

it still wants you to run crit gems?

[blazing jewel]

get simming

[earnest remnant]

the fuck u think im doing?

[blazing jewel]

[distant carbon]

see

i would ask for ur acc to sim cause i be doing the same thing

but only out of 2million

[earnest remnant]

[distant carbon]

i understand

[gusty mirage]

but why

[vapid sierra]

i just found my new favorite gif

https://imgur.com/dZpESPd

[weak plover]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[earnest remnant]

im playing spiderman, might as well just put up a 11mil iteration sim

and wait it out

[gusty mirage]

fair

[sudden canyon]

@balmy condor

https://i.imgur.com/1085NS0.gif

👀

[balmy condor]

Nice

[gilded oasis]

@gusty mirage we did it

[gusty mirage]

[gilded oasis]

bear solo'd it

I CANT DM YOU

[gusty mirage]

you can't DM me?

[weak plover]

You spent 0 CPs. Try to always spend at least 5 CPs when casting Envenom. Interesting

[dawn haven]

[balmy condor]

If she deathmarks you, you die

[gilded oasis]

tru

im 5% stronger

[gusty mirage]

I fail to see the negative here

[weak plover]

Also. Do we still hold vanish for second DM

[balmy condor]

The negative is that Zar’s dm would go on cd

[gusty mirage]

true, I am weak enough where a cd is not needed

[balmy condor]

If you’re gonna game with kill times then you can vanish for uptime and hold sepsis a little in order to cover the second Deathmark

On longer kill times you’d then hold the vanish for the next Deathmark anyways though so like

Same issue

Helps to think about your kill time and work backwards

[weak plover]

On sark/ echo I rip them on CD. But on other bosses I was holding vanish. Thinking about holding sepsis hurts my brain. Isn't 4 min fucked at that point too?

[balmy condor]

Well you only hold enough to cover the Deathmark

Sarks a special case cause you’re using sepsis with Deathmark and vanish on its own

Usually would be other way around

[keen spruce]

whispyr do you get sepsis coverage on your 3rd deathmark?

by holding sepsis at the end of p2?

I was kinda just sending shit on CD after p1 and it seemed like i ended up with a naked DM

but i might have just been goofin

[weak plover]

In p2 don't you have to hold

The boss goes immune get shortly after your sepsis comes back

[keen spruce]

[weak plover]

I think you can send it in p3 though and vanish will be back for dm coming up

[keen spruce]

I'm pretty sure i was gettin a sepsis near the end of p2

lemmy pull a log one sec

[balmy condor]

You don’t cast that one

[sudden canyon]

any1 got some logs i can test on the analyzer? need one with optimal shiv perfomance

[glass fulcrum]

whats the talent build?

[sudden canyon]

and one with complete shit shiv performance

[keen spruce]

that makes sense

[sudden canyon]

(could just used mine for that one tbh)

[balmy condor]

You sepsis dm boss on start of p2, vanish second add+boss, then hold for p3

[keen spruce]

yes chef

[weak plover]

Vanish to extend in p1 yeah?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

P3 you get sepsis + dm again, vanish after the run away with the adds

[keen spruce]

so p3 starts you get sepsis dm, then just vanish whenever it's back up

[balmy condor]

And then just crank

[keen spruce]

o ye okay

are you triple garroting those adds

or just slappin the boss

[balmy condor]

I’m garroting boss prio then adds

[keen spruce]

[soft shale]

nice i can reuse my helmet

we about to mastery stack the f out of these bleeds

and poisons

[weak plover]

I find the boss flys away/ dispel happens right as vanish comes off cool down. We're you holding a bit until the boys comes back there on add 2

[vital haven]

man sin is fun

[balmy condor]

Why tf are you like this

[vital haven]

i forgot how fun it was to play assa

[soft shale]

i was already crafting crit mastery gear for sub in dungeons

so im just reusing it

i dont think playing assa with 42% vers is the play ahaha

[gilded oasis]

mastery is king can't convince me otherwise

OK CENSORED

actually rude

[soft shale]

i see it will be easy to mingle

[weak plover]

Stack mastery, demand pi

[frozen iris]

Any reason to ever track scent of blood as a buff?

Current weak auras are tracking it.

[soft shale]

to feel better

also 2 stacks>1

[frozen iris]

But i dont change my behavior right? Im gonna make sure rupture is up on as many targets before i am no longer having energy issues correct?

[vapid sierra]

to my knwoledge yes

not sure if there is a minmax around the buff

[soft shale]

it is kinda like tracking DD as sub

if you do your normal things you don't care that much

[frozen iris]

Thanks!

[distant hinge]

might be dumb question but isnt versa and mastery the same increase in dps or does mastery have a higher multi value

[frozen iris]

Depends

[soft shale]

mastery does give more dps per point in assa most of the time

[distant hinge]

question is i have like 14% vers and its wanting me to keep it rather than get more mastery

so i prob have too much versa huh

[soft shale]

well depends everything is kind of a balance sim combinations help with that

there is no special breakpoint anymore

[brave zenith]

umm question i ahve like no haste im simming in dlslice to not get haste but im energy starved anyway to fix that

[balmy condor]

Nope

That’s how the spec plays

[blazing jewel]

Haste doesn’t fix energy as much as you think it does

[brave zenith]

gotcha

so ur gonna have dead globals than

[blazing jewel]

Yee

[brave zenith]

okay thank you !

[sharp viper]

does the nightly build in raidbots already reflect the recent buffs?

[blazing jewel]

No

[grand trail]

Unfortunately not for some reason

[sudden canyon]

holding shiv for sepsis is only done with the extra shiv charge talent?

[sharp viper]

i wanna know how good the OCE would be for me - not gonna reclear for a bit anyways, yet still....

[balmy condor]

Ye

1 charge shiv = slam on cooldown or ur a shitter

[balmy condor]

Pins

[delicate atlas]

so sin finally doing some reasonable damage or?

[balmy condor]

It’s done reasonable damage for a while

[royal lantern]

mf's look at 3specs that all do equal bellow average dmg

and then act as if assa is suddely insane cus it gets 5%

[balmy condor]

Assa is a huge boss damage spec

It was good before

Now it’s fantastic

[royal lantern]

and then the ussual favorites appear

[blazing jewel]

we crank rn tryan

its our moment

[royal lantern]

progress is over

wdym crank

[blazing jewel]

crank this

[royal lantern]

you cant say that and dont follow up with something

i waited for the 🥜

[balmy condor]

Not for a lot of people

Also like what’s it matter

We’re still good right now

Why worry about the past

[runic hinge]

That’s what my therapist says too

[keen spruce]

progress is never over

for someone that hasn't gotten CE yet

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/rain-sad-man-man-in-rain-gif-23062134

[twilit jacinth]

Also competitive in m+ now?

[royal lantern]

lol no

[clever sapphire]

[royal lantern]

assa has many many problems for Dungeons

[clever sapphire]

First being that you are specced into assa

[royal lantern]

5% wont suddenly make it good there

[clever sapphire]

Second that you cant take bonespike

[royal lantern]

espacily not in the current m+ meta

[soft shale]

i would have liked bonespike and sepsis to have gotten the covs improvs/conduits

sf and toxic onslaught would have been quite cool

and of course double spike pog

[clever sapphire]

yap, its good that sepsis and bonespike are a choice node, but its bad that only er has its legendary

[soft shale]

blades with 6 garrotes rolling would do big dam

and AR is always welcome

sad that it never got the 0,8 GCD

[quiet oar]

Crank deez?

[grand trail]

Is this SIM waiting room

I see scana abusing PI

[blazing jewel]

I DIDNT ASK FOR IT

[balmy condor]

why do people care for the sims so bad

[grand trail]

Because my vault was bad again so I need copium from sim for today raid 🤡

[balmy condor]

slap the code into expert mode then idk

[royal lantern]

idk

simmed for 130k last week

so it will be like, 136-137k now if i did math right

probs more 135k

[solid mica]

Thats it, i miss shadowlands

[royal lantern]

L take

[clever sapphire]

W take

dont listen to the furry

[toxic night]

assa is actually giga in fortified mythic+ right now

[clever sapphire]

true, it went up to D tier on whispyrs favourite website

[balmy condor]

assa giga in m+

[toxic night]

fortified

[balmy condor]

arguably even more insane

[toxic night]

and not in pugs ofc

[balmy condor]

and you have played sub before

[royal lantern]

?

what has the affix to do with anything

[toxic night]

because maybe assa ST is still dogshit in mythic+ build

[royal lantern]

assa sucks in m+ cus its a very very slow ramp up to do any aoe dmg, and the result is mediocre at best

and at the same time loses big chunk st dmg

[toxic night]

and thats why high fortified keys if the pulls are done correctly u actually slap

[royal lantern]

how can a spec be "giga in m+" when it has such a big weakness by default rn lol

[toxic night]

yea maybe the word giga is wrongly used

[royal lantern]

people see 5% and go crazy

like bruh

[toxic night]

but i mean in certain scenarios u actually slap

[royal lantern]

assa m+ is flawed by desing

5% dont change shit lol

[clever sapphire]

what he means is you can feel something in M+ because trash lives long enough to ramp a little bit

(thats how i see assa in M+)

[royal lantern]

like, i get where that comes from

but like

people realise IC exists

aka "everything has 2bleeds now"

does that result in assa suddenly beeing "insane in fort weeks"?

[toxic night]

nah u are right

[burnt latch]

is assa the best rogue spec for m+ now after buff?

[clever sapphire]

yes

confirmed

by noone

[burnt latch]

idk who that is

is he mod here or?

[quiet oar]

Yeah and Kingsbane is BiS in ST. Stealthi did the test

[burnt latch]

ok... guess i gotta learn new stuff agen

[ornate dawn]

131k prebuff, now simming 136/137k - I'll take that !

[drifting cosmos]

Assa m+ is the dream tho

One day

[celest marlin]

we still garbage?

[balmy condor]

pins

[soft shale]

you win vs most tanks

if that is something to go by

[tardy basin]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[grand trail]

Just my hourly check in for Sims 🤡

Surely getting nick of time when vault was trash

Meanwhile guild mate had 450 beacon and 457 cloak in same vault 🤡

[worn sorrel]

hi

regarding tier set in m+ (just got it)

Should I open with triple garrote and death mark AND when death mark expires I vanish carnage?

basically what I ask is if it's worth to hold carnage for the tier set bonus

[worn sorrel]

Or does it only affect the target you used death mark on?

.
I guess it's all about if you end up losing a carnage cast by the end of the dungeon, no?

[pulsar dirge]

For the same pack ? Don't think you can get max value

[royal lantern]

y'all have cloaks?

we have 1in total in our group lmao

[clever sapphire]

no

[blazing jewel]

Skill issue

[clever sapphire]

you just send carnage

you dont hold anything for tset

[blazing jewel]

No capes

[worn sorrel]

so what about holding death mark a bit to get a bit of the amp damage bonus into 2nd carnage?

[clever sapphire]

i mean comes down to the pack and moment, i would send it in freehold first pull for example

thats something i cant tell you like this

[worn sorrel]

so

[clever sapphire]

gotta consider if you need the dmg frontup

or for next pull

[worn sorrel]

if there is not a clear prio target

can i just hold a bit?

[grand trail]

I have no cloak and from our one kill we get either

[clever sapphire]

if you will have it up for boss, sure

[pulsar dirge]

That's the beauty of the game you have to make some decisions on the Spot

[worn sorrel]

ofc but you plan before that

[blazing jewel]

No decisions

Head empty

[clever sapphire]

hard to plan without context

[royal lantern]

bleeds go brrrr

envenom when cp

[blazing jewel]

Shiv goodge

[blissful forge]

Any Rogues on EU wanna do a quick Dagger Stack for the first 2 bosses of Dawn?

[worn sorrel]

and then trade u?

[tardy basin]

raidbots still not updated?

[vestal wren]

[royal lantern]

[woeful wigeon]

anny of you who use breath of neltarion tinker or is it not wurth ? and go for the ress ?

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[valid leaf]

Ofc

[olive nova]

levelling meta xD

[valid leaf]

Shit location roid

Brackenhide faster for 2 hours

[olive nova]

hard to solo

due to tottems

[wispy leaf]

isn't it on the same cd as potion?

[woeful meteor]

dmg tinkers are never worth since they share pot cd just go brez

[valid leaf]

@olive nova u have a pot from tbc that cleanses you every 5 sec

[royal lantern]

nelth tinker is bad, like really bad

[olive nova]

whats that

in brackenhide i could do 500k dps as a prot warr if i pull enough packs

[valid leaf]

I forgot the name tbh i know i used it because totems were tilting

[olive nova]

nokhud quite empty

[valid leaf]

And i leveled more then 100 people this season

[olive nova]

i have 2alts sitting on the hill rn

gonna buy 2 more subs

so ill level 4 at once

[woeful wigeon]

kk so b ress it wil be then

[royal lantern]

why not 2 doms

[valid leaf]

My mans making an army

[woeful wigeon]

thx for the feed bck

[olive nova]

yeah around 360alts

cuz 60 is the cap per account

6accounts in total

Restorative Potion