assassination

[royal lantern]

and aoe its probably the worst Spec in the game rn

[blissful forge]

if you wanna search for rotational mistakes a log review might help you

[torn swan]

Yes, aoe thing is not even something i'm seeking, i'm trying to get better in ST

[blissful forge]

yeah

bring a log

[torn swan]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/69KhQg3a4CcVn8k2 Yesterday night on Rashok

[blissful forge]

and ppl are likely to help you and analyze the log

start a thread pls

with !log

and post it in there

[torn swan]

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/69KhQg3a4CcVn8k2

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[blissful forge]

does this work only in sub channel? @vestal wren

[keen spruce]

i think it works in ol too

but we have very nice wowanalyzer updates from last tier

[blissful forge]

oh wowanalyzer works for assa? :3

[torn swan]

Yep, just cheked

[keen spruce]

primarily, it looks like you're wasting tea

when you're at high energy

[torn swan]

Looks like i missed a few teas

[keen spruce]

and you're clipped a couple of improved garrotes

and a few low cp envenoms

this is definitely a fairly large mistake

should be closer to 20%

[torn swan]

I must confess, yes it is. But Rashok MM is like a try-not-to-panick-and-do-your-rotation-perfectly boss

[keen spruce]

yep

[torn swan]

I guess I'm getting old lol

[keen spruce]

very rewarding tho cuz if you do play it well it's basically a target dummy as far as uptime

but dodging lava tends to take priority

[torn swan]

yeah... at some point it's just LAVE EVERYWHERE and i'm a bit panicking lol

But thanks for the advice

I'll try to get more focused 🙂

[keen spruce]

but to other people's points, at this point in the tier assas isn't really gonna be toppin any charts

[torn swan]

I was afraid of that answer 😦

[keen spruce]

oh you're also wearing a sporecloak

that's not helpin your damage either

[torn swan]

Yeah but that helps staying alive (everyone in our raid, while in progress, has to wear it)

[keen spruce]

is this like a thing now

if someone told me to put a sporecloak on I'd bench my damn self and go find a new guild lol

[torn swan]

On the progress phases only. The idea is if you don't (as a team) master a boss, then get yourself another chance to stay alive

[slow sorrel]

do any of you play assassination on keystones?

its prob the worst shit i ever did on wow

[torn swan]

Yes i do

[keen spruce]

a very dedicated few

I think we're one of the only specs without 0 peopel in title range

[slow sorrel]

I usually play sub or outlaw, I went to play assassin, and my god

its terrible

[keen spruce]

it's pretty cursed

[slow sorrel]

rework pls

[keen spruce]

it's comin

[slow sorrel]

imagine

a 45 sec cd

[torn swan]

Yes, it's not really competitive, to say the least

[slow sorrel]

to dot aoe

[torn swan]

Is it?????

[keen spruce]

10.2 rogue class and spec tree

[slow sorrel]

outlaw is lowkey really fun to play

[keen spruce]

OL been pretty fun this xpac

I played it in s1

I think it's just feral druid, ass rogue, and uh dk

have no one in title range

atm

[torn swan]

https://tenor.com/view/meh-really-whatever-gif-24286865

[slow sorrel]

I was going to try to learn Assassination, but since there's going to be a rework and it's terrible to play, I'll leave it there for now

[keen spruce]

oh and MM hunter

[torn swan]

Better get interest on next patch, yeah

[keen spruce]

I mean I wouldn't expect a super drastic change in play styles for any of the spec

but probably some new emergent builds

and lots of quality of life

[slow sorrel]

fire mage rework changed a lot

[keen spruce]

I mean if you've played fire mage before it was pretty familiar

they jsut weren't playin flame strike in s1

[slow sorrel]

this new way to play flamestrike

is different

it contributes to the hotstreak

it's very different from shadowlands fire

i hope rogue gets a really cool rework

hunter too

its needed

[keen spruce]

realz is pretty tuned into the rogue community, i'm sure it'll be good

[slow sorrel]

an outlaw who benefits from haste would be interesting

uncaping his gcd

[keen spruce]

i would not hold your breath for that one

[blissful forge]

we just need to have trust in realz, he will do a good job for sure

[keen spruce]

don't think any energy classes have variable GCDs with haste

and OL already get's the bonus from AR

[slow sorrel]

dh tank

[calm bane]

I wish realz was a hunter dev

[slow sorrel]

its not energy

to be fair

[blissful forge]

dh tank has energy?

[slow sorrel]

yep

im wrong

[royal lantern]

that goes against the entire idea of energy

[slow sorrel]

but I find it very strange a spec with the highest APM of the game not to use haste

[keen spruce]

yeah i mean haste as a stat just kinda contradicts the point of energy classes in the first place

not in love with the design of it as a terc stat

but it functions very well for other specs so idk

rework haste

or at very least stop making raid and dungeon bosses that are balanced around massive haste buffs

and delete external pi

[slow sorrel]

ye

like

lust for sub
does not do anything

make a very important mechanic in the game, but create classes that benefit 0 from it

[royal lantern]

hey hey, stop spreading missinformation

you get 3more energy each second and slightly more CP from shadow tech

but yeha, haste and rogue is......special

[deft flicker]

Assa gets more frequent bleed ticks

[royal lantern]

2specs where it litearlly does nothing, 1spec where it has SOME effect, but also nothing major like it is for everyone else

[deft flicker]

Outlaw, subtlety and brewmaster though… yeah

[deft flicker]

On the flipside you don’t care about having low haste (or negative haste)

And do not experience the “this spec feels like shit but will get fixed with more gear now go grab some gear with unshittening or smth”

[hollow cedar]

Thats not a good argument, saying a stat has almost no value is never good

[deft flicker]

That’s kind of the design point though: haste is bad because we sort of have 50% haste baked into out class by default

We have slice for faster autoattacks, we have vigor for faster energy recovery, we have fixed 1s gcd as opposed to hasted 1.5s that non-energy users have

Adrenaline is basically PI on steroids

Also a huge part of every spec’s energy generation comes from non-hasted sources

[keen spruce]

I mean i think that's kinda dookey design

[deft flicker]

Yeah, big external haste doesn’t do anything, but idk if it can do anything without causing us to feel slow when haste isn’t there

Does WW like haste on gear??

[keen spruce]

it's their worst stat

[deft flicker]

What about feral??

[keen spruce]

better than vers

[deft flicker]

They’d probably benefit the most out of energy classes

[keen spruce]

tied with mastery

bu they want crit

i mean they like some haste for the same reason assas does

[deft flicker]

Yeah, but besides DoT tick rate they don’t really gain anything

[keen spruce]

but like we're not giving every energy class dots to make haste more viable

[deft flicker]

I’m sort of fine with haste being the worst of 4 stats

[keen spruce]

I would be fine with it in a world that didn't rely on dungeon/raid bosses giving massive haste steroids, and blood lust, and pi

like a lot of the game is balanced around haste buffs

[vestal wren]

i was asked to put this message instead givn that the wowanalyzer support is good for sin

iirc works in sub/outlaw but cf+ can always open a thread manual

[keen spruce]

we just got lazy and didn't wanna do log review anymore

[blissful forge]

haha

[keen spruce]

also assas needs to do like 3 things correctly

and wow analyzer accurately identifies all of them

[blissful forge]

ok good to know, i didnt knew that analyzer was up2date otherwise i would've recommended it first

[keen spruce]

it's very cozy for assas now

[vestal wren]

tbh it takes a lot of time, i havn't had much time to do log reviews for sub too in s2 even tho i get quite some in dms

[keen spruce]

I try to do what i can when i have the mental bandwidth

[blissful forge]

thats where the community comes into help

[keen spruce]

except OL

[blissful forge]

same

[keen spruce]

i never even looked at my own pirate logs last tier

that shit is like reading heiroglyphics

[blissful forge]

i also dont look at my logs since i know i dont fuck up my rota 💀

[vestal wren]

always happny if someone else helps out,

[blissful forge]

theres a reason why OL's pref vods instead of a log

[keen spruce]

idk there's always somethin lurking in there

this was like rank 5 on magmo when i got it

envenomed him with no rupture

[blissful forge]

only thing i look into my logs for is timings, nothing else, i mean sub isnt hard at all to perfect (atleast for me)

sheesh

wowanalzyer looks juicy

[keen spruce]

but this basically covers everything for assas

[blissful forge]

they changed the design no?

[keen spruce]

assas is pretty custom

other specs still have the old look

they hooked us up

[blissful forge]

last time i used it was in like idl bfa when i didnt had a clue how WoW works

[blissful forge]

oh ok

[keen spruce]

but like this covers 99% of stuff that assas fucks up

and if someone's looks pretty good but still parsing bad

it's almost always trinket procs/beacon crits/ or really bad uptime for melees

or all of the above

[deft flicker]

How dependent on haste would you like to be then??

[royal lantern]

just a normal dmg stat like the Others lol

[deft flicker]

And how do you get that??

Other than “delete energy”

I don’t really see a way for that to happen, maybe I’m just dense though

[keen spruce]

i mean i can't think of a good solution

short of like deleting haste and rebalancing around it not existing lol

but i'm sure there's a better one

[deft flicker]

There must be a better one other than “delete haste as a stat, turn all haste externals into raw damage” (because this screws up those who like haste) or “turn rogue into a warrior with stealth by deleting energy privileges” if you want haste to be a good stat

[keen spruce]

I mean i'm in the business of identifying and/or creating problems

not solving them

[deft flicker]

Yep. So am I. And I have found problems within your problem-having problem

[blazing jewel]

Make haste scale the energy procs for the three specs

Sin dot ticks outlaw attacks and sub shadow techniques (idk what it’s called)

[deft flicker]

We already have enough energy, what are you dropping in terms of talents??

[blazing jewel]

We’re getting a rework talents will be changed

[keen spruce]

and they could be changed again to accomodate a tertiary change

[deft flicker]

Fair enough

[robust sandal]

if we have enough ad damage in sark myth, is it worth going sin instead of sub, also, is sin hard to pick up from sub

[night delta]

Late to the party but sin's entire energy gen is hasted.

• Baseline gen : hasted
• VW : procs on bleed ticks, therefore hasted
• DS : procs on poison applications (which are on attack speed, so hasted) and ticks (also hasted)

Problem with haste as sin is that even without it we're still barely energy capped at all, and we're a fixed GCD spec so its effect is almost exclusively on dots

Which sure are a hefty dose of our dps, but crit affects 100% of it aswell as making SF a thing ; and our mastery scales strong enough on enough of our dmg profile that it's just better

Iridikron burn phase go brrrr

[clever sapphire]

sin benefits from the haste, so if you dont have to help with any add dmg, sin will probably do more boss dmg there

from what i heard the cooldowns also kinda line up pretty well with the phases

[robust sandal]

Okay! I’ll switch to sin and see how it feels, thanks for your response

[clever sapphire]

just remember, since you wont do any add dmg, unless they stand in your poison bomb, remember to look at boss dmg and not overall

[deft flicker]

Hmm, true actually. So if all of those were tuned with an idea of us stacking haste in mind - we’d end up either very stutter-y (in moments of low haste) or drowning in energy (in moments of high haste). Or both

[night delta]

Honestly, seeing our design space, having us balanced around not needing haste (or barely at all) for our energy gain is kinda baffling

And i feel i'm far from alone being fine with having downtimes where i don't press a button every second, especially if that's a tendency that goes away as an expansion continues (because more stats = more haste = less energy problems)

[burnt latch]

Haste should lower energy regen for rogue

[spice spire]

Donathan Herbert

[burnt latch]

Donbartheleums Herbertingus is my full name

[spice spire]

Gesundheit

[burnt latch]

Austrian royalty

My family owns a castle near Zell Am See

[vestal wren]

nice

[burnt latch]

Ive had two flies in my apartment for a good week, cant seem to find a way to kill them

Anyone got tips for that

Cant get bleeds going fast enough they start evading

[spice spire]

Pray they don’t bang and wait em out

[burnt latch]

Thats the thing im pretty sure thats what theyre doing

They keep hugging each other in the air

Looks sus

[spice spire]

[burnt latch]

Okay i got 2, one got away

I sprayed them with this multi purpose cleaning solution i use to keep my place clean

They call me The Alchemist

[boreal cloud]

Chemical warfare

[blazing jewel]

The full metal one?

[clever sapphire]

new assa rogue ability?

[burnt latch]

Someone ping Realz fast!

[spice spire]

No

[burnt latch]

Could be a nice capstone

Im laying on the floor most fights anyways might aswell clean them while im at it

[clever sapphire]

someone gotta clean up all them corpses after the wipes

[burnt latch]

Truth

Aint good for morale seeing all that dirt on the floor be4 new pull

[subtle stream]

Tie some actual knives to your fan.

[burnt latch]

My country doesnt believe in fans

Never seen someone had one in their apartment ever

[blazing jewel]

herbo what’s cooling your gpu rn

[spice spire]

Hasn’t it been getting hot as fuck in the summers?

[subtle kiln]

get a cat

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-meow-big-lips-gif-13233291

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/meow-gif-24525483

[burnt latch]

my icy veins

[burnt latch]

yessir windows are indeed open and life is misery

[spice spire]

[earnest remnant]

@balmy condor sry for the ping, but im cooking up some assault speed for mythic and was wondering what a 40sec max dmg assa build would look like

[spice spire]

[midnight mist]

[gusty mirage]

kingsbane

unironically

he played it on a heroic run, can prolly find it on his logs

[wary ice]

kingsbane lets go

[rare jackal]

kingsbane....

https://tenor.com/view/starwars-obi-wan-now-thats-a-name-ive-not-heard-in-along-time-gif-11814407

[gusty mirage]

yeah it's insane when the boss fight is less than a minute long

[wary ice]

Kb value insane in keys if you use ur cc to only pull 1 thing every minute

[sweet dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/the-return-of-the-king-lord-of-the-rings-ro-tk-title-card-gif-22191928

sbane

[jagged coral]

Genius

[royal lantern]

yeha but that dopamine rush during the first 30sec

actually able to see yourself for once

[gusty mirage]

I had a kingsbane wolverine meme

idk what happened to it

[royal lantern]

same thing that happend with KB ingame

[gusty mirage]

too soon man

even though it's been 8 months

[gusty mirage]

there it is

I miss you so much

[royal lantern]

[wary ice]

[frozen iris]

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/godfather-massacre-sad-gif-16810633

[wary ice]

Massacred necromanced and massacred again

[royal lantern]

one day

it will return

and we can have discussions about tracking KB stacks again

[gusty mirage]

man

those first two weeks of dragonflight were such a banger

we had build diversity

we had damage

I blame warlocks

[sudden canyon]

Has me mentioned anything publicily? coz feels sins had the same problems in the talent tree since like 10.0.5. If the plan is to rework the talent tree anyways, then temporary bandaid solutions for the meantime are warranted imo.

[gusty mirage]

yes he has

there's a ton changing in the class tree

things being removed/changed/tweaked/gateways being moved

[clever sapphire]

warlock gateways get moved to us? nice

[gusty mirage]

also a 10% aura buff does nothing for assassination

so a bandaid will do nothing except make you feel a teeny bit better about yourself

I'd rather them not waste time on that and fix the class and spec trees

[toxic night]

i know its pvp but a 10% aura buff pushed outlaw into being played in both na and eu AWC finals and it dominated

so sometimes aura buffs are needed

[gusty mirage]

yeah but outlaw is in a much better position than assassination

[toxic night]

true

[gusty mirage]

sometimes it is just a tuning issue

but assassination is just jank

our ST is jank, our aoe is jank, our access to our utility is jank

all of it

and don't get me wrong I'd like a 5% aura buff to assassination

then it'd close the gap between assassination and sub for me and I could just play assassination and not care

but if it takes anything away from the rework I'd rather just suck it up for a few months, ya know

[sudden canyon]

same. but the idea with a bandaid solution is that its a quick (like an aura buff) temporary thing that wont be touched, while they work on the actual solution. So i dont see it as a waste of time.

[clever sapphire]

what if they give us 10%, now after the rework we are too strong and we get a 10% nerf, now you feel shit cause "its only week 2 and we got nerfed"

but in the end its just taking the bandaid off

[sweet dawn]

The greatest psy op known to man

[spice spire]

North American League of legends?

[sudden canyon]

No theyed likely remove the 10% durring the ptr as we are testing the new tree and seeing that maybe assa is doing too much dmg.

what kind of take is that?

[spice surge]

People still get massive upset, even if its a ptr nerf

[sudden canyon]

no way

If the dmg is the same why would ppl be upset? Its not like your losing dmg.

[spice spire]

You weren’t here for df launch were you?

[gusty mirage]

outlaw melted down when they removed 1 combo point from fan the hammer

[sudden canyon]

no

[clever sapphire]

any nerf no matter when its mentioned gonna make like 80% of the specs playerbase mad

[proven jasper]

^

[clever sapphire]

doesnt matter if they are still meta and broken (see fire mage)

[agile osprey]

To be fair this made the spec feel so much worse

[gusty mirage]

yeah it feels like shit to get nerfed, justified or not

[spice surge]

"ye blizzard never allows rogues to be good, mages atleast had 2 weeks on live before they get nerfed while rogue gets nerfed on the ptr, its so unfair man"

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

and then it feels 1000x times worse when you see BM hunter and frost mage get buffed to levels beyond where your spec originally was

but that's another rant for another day

[spice spire]

That’s verbatim what would be said

10.0 frost mages were gonna be the death of oxi

[gusty mirage]

didn't you hear? fire mage is dead now

they only do 1 million dps in aoe instead of 1.3 million dps

dead spec tbh

[agile osprey]

[gusty mirage]

bro

[spice spire]

We’re also in garbage time guys, I say this as someone still progging - this tier doesn’t matter at this point. I’d love buffs to do more dam. But I’d also rather have an awesome and functioning rework that’s tuned nicely than current iteration feeling slightly better for my ego which (might?) be gone in a few months

[gusty mirage]

watching BM hunter, frost mage, and uhdk get buffed

after we got beaten and thrown to the side

[spice spire]

UHDKs are illegal

[gusty mirage]

I'm convinced that the balancing team goes to chatgpt for advice

no one can convince me otherwise

"assassination is TOO strong"

3 weeks later

[spice surge]

You just dont understand their methods

[agile osprey]

We may have not killed echo last night, but I took another 300k from our warlock

[spice surge]

(neither do they)

[gusty mirage]

"we're buffing frost mage 2 times to do 138k ST dps"

[spice spire]

UHDKs are literally my 13th reason.
Getting gaslit at the beginning of the tier that they’d lose so much dam because of tierset just for them to regularly be 150k+ per fight

[gusty mirage]

which was 3k above where assassination was simming in absolute bis

btw

[clever sapphire]

now now, thought we got over that week 12

[wary ice]

chat gpt advice is still prob better than some of the cooked takes ive seen suggested

[gusty mirage]

no no

I will never get over that

ever

[clever sapphire]

suggesting exsang smh

[gusty mirage]

I lived through the culling of sub rogue in bfa

[spice surge]

"unholy scales poorly cause puzzlebox is so good"

[gusty mirage]

and then the balancing shit show on s3/s4 SL

[spice spire]

Literally girlboss’d WoW with that

[gusty mirage]

and then 10.0.5

I was so omega tilted

ask quake

I was raging literally daily

[spice spire]

Mf had the same affix daily

[gusty mirage]

I've never been more tilted in my life

and then my RL had me play indiscriminate carnage on dathea

and sent me on a platform because our prot pally couldn't figure out how to divine toll properly

and then vault was ruined forever for me

I cast vanish 3 times n 8.5 minutes

[spice surge]

Similar to the "i cant get invites anymore because exodia" rants in #subtlety every day now?

[gusty mirage]

THREE TIMES

[spice spire]

Similar to season 3/4 of sl (but somehow this is worse)

[clever sapphire]

been there, done that, quit guild, was happy after

[gusty mirage]

[sweet dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-why-pepe-the-frog-sad-crying-gif-16026853

[gusty mirage]

I told my new guild about that

and they laughed

they found it hilarious

dathea actually broke me

[clever sapphire]

i mean, if you put assa on IC for that boss, just get another dps in at that point

[gusty mirage]

oh, it wasn't for damage

it was for the silence

[clever sapphire]

ik its for the silence

[gusty mirage]

[wary ice]

new guilds raid lead laughing and quickly opening his raidstrats.txt to remove IC on dathea from his reqeusts

[clever sapphire]

but just get a dk

[gusty mirage]

our uhdk quit on us

so you'd think the prot pally could figure it out

right?

[wary ice]

was he sad he had to keep playing after the first 45s of the fight?

[gusty mirage]

so did I

until about 10 pulls in

I get asked to go up on a platform

our shaman had a whopping 3 kicks in 8.5 minutes btw

[clever sapphire]

i remember trialing on mythic broodkeeper. Havent seen that boss before and i got put on destroying egg duty, smashed it and was topping meters, then grieftorch went to a guy who was dead every pull

[gusty mirage]

best kick in the game

[clever sapphire]

quit that too

xD

[gusty mirage]

nbd

get asked to swap sub

my sub bars were from s3 of SL

I still had macros from SL on my bars

it was a disaster

then I get asked to swap to control the adds on the platform

and my mental was ruined for the rest of the tier

[clever sapphire]

swapping specs is fine for a boss for all i care, if the raidlead tells me a few days before

so i can get my head around what i wanna do

[gusty mirage]

yeah I got a 2 minutes heads up

lol

[clever sapphire]

ah that sounds nice

[gusty mirage]

had door of shadows bound still

wasa very cool

[clever sapphire]

sounds like vault was an insane experience for you

[gusty mirage]

yep I had an absolute blast

didn't get my brood keeper dagger until the last week of vault

that was my reward

[spice spire]

This tier 2

[clever sapphire]

(me with eranog ring, nvm i didnt even get it farming start of S2)

[gusty mirage]

fu, its in the vault this time for sure

[spice spire]

Surely

[gusty mirage]

5 kills on mythic sark

3 cloaks

2 beacons

0 daggers

I have every 450 piece except the ring from echo and the dagger

[clever sapphire]

the dagger doesnt look good anyways

[spice spire]

No class trinket either yeah? Not rubbing it in

Just keeping track

[gusty mirage]

we haven't even seen it drop

so I'm less upset about that

[spice surge]

Unluigi

[gusty mirage]

we've seen one echo trinket

and it was a call to suffering

or whatever the lock one is

is that call to suffering?

who knows

[spice surge]

Suffering is ours

[gusty mirage]

we've also only seen 1 chromatic essence btw

ever

and 1 anvil

and 1 bomb dispenser

lmao

[silk bane]

god damn it oxi, i took 3000 gold from vault

[sudden canyon]

they should make blindside give you an offgcd ambush so i can just macro it into mut.... change my mind.

[silk bane]

what is this luck

[sudden canyon]

remove blindside actually

i need my keybind realestate

[gusty mirage]

I warn you mfers every week

I have dogshit luck

bro I took a socket last week

and I have nothing to socket

[silk bane]

i mean, i have 2 extra sockets in bag, and nothing to socket

[peak bobcat]

same

[silk bane]

so i was like fuck it 3k gold it is instead of a 3rd useless one

[clever sapphire]

tbf i enjoy me some blindside procs

feels nice to press a free ambush

into another free ambush

[peak bobcat]

blindside is definitely not the problem

good talent

[clever sapphire]

the problem is that ap is under it

so a useless talent

[peak bobcat]

I don't even remember what assassination talent tree looks like

it has been so long

[gusty mirage]

just don't press N

it's depressing

[clever sapphire]

last time i pressed N was to respec into outlaw to see how shit dps i would do with that spec

was for a quick sim

went back to sub after

[deft flicker]

Cook some noodles, grab a forkful

That’s pretty much any rogue tree

[peak bobcat]

im just gonna play sub and turn brain off

until 10.2

[sudden canyon]

is sub rly brainless?

[clever sapphire]

in m+ compared to assa, yep

atleast in my eyes

but its more of "its just so much easier to play, almost brainless"

[gusty mirage]

tyler 🤝 oxi

perks are we get to talk to @earnest remnant and he's cute

so

it's a win still

[earnest remnant]

no, you

[gusty mirage]

Checkmate

[earnest remnant]

that is just positively adorable

[subtle tundra]

wat da helllllllllll

rat?!?

[gusty mirage]

[peak bobcat]

I told myself I would play outlaw for one reclear

just to remember the buttons

and I got like 4 bosses in and couldnt take it

[gusty mirage]

yeah I rolled off spec on a 1hander

might give it a go tonight

[spice spire]

Panda the WHAT

[pure moth]

My guild hasnt given me an outlaw weapon because they said id never play it lol

[sudden canyon]

is the Nightstalker talent still broken?

[spice surge]

no

[sudden canyon]

does it snapshot the 8% dmg on bleeds?

[balmy condor]

I think it should

But I’m not sure actually

Cause the bug was that it just wasn’t working on shit

[deft flicker]

Jokes on them, your best outlaw weapons come from weekly vault (tusk/forgestorm) and crafting

[spice surge]

fairly sure it does for rupture as sub

So should be for assa too

[balmy condor]

The fact that it didn’t snapshot was a design decision

But yeh

Think that changed

[vestal wren]

nighstalker works, but not consistntly on everything

esp. multi part attacks like sepsis are potential fail cases

[uneven hamlet]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spice surge]

Ye nightstalker shapshots rupture, garrote (assuming you cast it while stealthed and not with improved garrote) and sepsis

But it doesnt seem to do so in the sims

Idk if its worth bothering looking into it seeing as theres a lot of new stuff coming soon anyway, but eh

[sudden canyon]

just tested a bit. NS does snapshot garrote and rupture, it also snapshots NS dmg on casts within subterfuge window (last i remember this was also broken)

it also snapshots dance but that one is more obvious

[spice surge]

It definitely does not have the NS effect within subterfuge

[sudden canyon]

Subterfuge still completely breaks Shrouded Suffocation

coz it changes ur stealth

[peak bobcat]

dreadblades is so cringe

outlaw on kurog with HO was fun but i cant get behind the current talent setup

[vestal wren]

https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/issues/1100

^ when i tested it

lmk if something was fixed

or add a comment if something is missing

[balmy condor]

Are you sure? I have vivid memories of simming after the fix

lemme get to my pc

[spice surge]

I can tripple check

[sudden canyon]

rly im testing differently. Just looking at my tick dmg

[balmy condor]

I'm seeing weird things for sure

[sudden canyon]

my garrote dmg when cast from stealth and when cast right after breaking stealth (with an autoattack) using subter are the same amount of dmg more than just a regular garrote.

[balmy condor]

well yeah in game it works fine

that's not in question

[spice surge]

And youre sure your auto attack doesnt miss, because when i do it with like 1s left of subterfuge it definitely doesnt get the benefits

maybe if i spec out of improved garrote it works

[balmy condor]

oh subterfuge

nvm then yeh that shits fucked

[spice surge]

2.590 Player 'No_NS' garrote ticks (2 of 14) on Player 'Fluffy_Pillow' for 16875.389063295643 physical damage (hit)
2.577 Player 'NS' garrote ticks (2 of 15) on Player 'Fluffy_Pillow' for 16875.389063295643 physical damage (hit)
two different sims, one with NS one without

Kinda sussy

[sudden canyon]

im specced out of it fwiw

[balmy condor]

yeh seeing similar

nightstalker tho

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-oh-no-anyway-gif-18887547

[sudden canyon]

also in my combatlog at least when i cast garrote from stealth it specifically says "Bigsexy's [Garrote] broke BigSexy's [Stealth]"

this is straight from stealth w/ NS

here i break with an auto and cast garrote durring subter

same dmg

[spice surge]

Yes without improved garrote it works

[sudden canyon]

fucking jank

xD

[spice surge]

But i just didnt consider ever speccing out of it

[sudden canyon]

yea i wouldnt either, funny how broken shit is

[balmy condor]

pray that subterfuge and dogshit nightstalker disappears 10.2

[runic hinge]

[sudden canyon]

i think with Imp Garrote, the game chooses the higher dmg mod (50%) over the 8% from NS, and subter buff lasts as long as Imp Garrote buff (3s) so youd just never see the NS dmg mod with imp garrote

my hypothesis

[spice surge]

?

If you use it from stealth you get the bonus

So its 1.62

[balmy condor]

but not with subt right

[spice surge]

If you use it only during imp garrote and subterfuge (lmao) its only 50% because youre no longer in "stealth"

[balmy condor]

without subt

[spice surge]

Subt doesnt change anything

Unless you specced out of imp garrote

[balmy condor]

oh I see

fun

I will forget this conversation in a week

nightstalker could be like 20% and still be utter dogshit

[spice surge]

[balmy condor]

yeh just drop 1 min sprint

very cool and good

play base ER

very sick

excellent

[sudden canyon]

im mostly considering it for my shadow dance memes in m+

[balmy condor]

sim number is green tho must play monkey brain is compelling me to follow the green number

[balmy condor]

[spice surge]

Well number should be even greener if nightstalker isnt properly being applied in simc

[spice spire]

Shadow dance enjoyers

Im@gonna be sick

[balmy condor]

need 10.2 to drop right now so people stop doing the most cursed shit

[gusty mirage]

what the fuck is this

[balmy condor]

okay but no one's playing it

[sudden canyon]

Not that any1 should run subterfuge, but can sum1 else verify that Shrouded Suffocation bonus CP is just broken when running subterfuge.

[balmy condor]

[spice surge]

Bro people have been playing sub with 1 step and 2 min sprint the entire tier, surely assa can survive with just two steps

[balmy condor]

"people have been playing sub"

no they haven't

those fucking lizard people aren't people

[sudden canyon]

but have they been enjoying it?

[balmy condor]

also bit of a false equivalency

cause they play 1 step 2 min sprint for bigger reasons than a 4% buff on 1 garrote every 2 minutes

[vestal wren]

gold?

[gusty mirage]

nope, same as last week

alt f4

[balmy condor]

you'd catch me 6 feet in the dirt before you see me recommending nightstalker with the current spec

[vestal wren]

alt f4 is a good game

[gusty mirage]

5 weeks of full mythic vaults

[vestal wren]

alt f4 2 is poorly optimized tho

[gusty mirage]

5 sark kills

no dagger

[sudden canyon]

bring back Shadowstrike teleporting you while casts in dance/steatlh

[vestal wren]

its gone in 10.2 so

[sudden canyon]

bring back Burst of Speed

[balmy condor]

god I fucking hope so

[gusty mirage]

burst of speed is never coming back

[sudden canyon]

i know that shit was broken

i cant believe it was in the game for a whole xpac

[vestal wren]

i mean we will see

[balmy condor]

nighstalker and subterfuge have been the most spaghetti code talents for like a decade now

just delete and move on

[vestal wren]

but NS and subterfuge seem to be at least candidates that would make sense

subterfuge is popular in pvp tho

[fallow canopy]

Hello, is there a way to do a sim with beacon critting on every use? I want to see if the gamba degenerate play could be worth over my essence

[balmy condor]

popular
pvp

[balmy condor]

it's better dw

a single beacon cast critting vs not critting is worth over 2k dps

if you crit all your casts

it's gonna be better

[fallow canopy]

holy

I see, thanks!

well time to pray on every pull

[balmy condor]

stay sane

[gusty mirage]

gl

it's the best when you're at 52% crit

and you crit 0/3 casts

[fallow canopy]

Are any of us sin enjoyers sane?

[gusty mirage]

pretty cool

[balmy condor]

we just had a convo about nightstalker, subterfuge, and dance

so

definitely not

[vestal wren]

can be a pvp talent tho

[sudden canyon]

whys ER supposed to be used at 0cp (vs also 1-3cp)

is bomb dispenser just macro'd (assuming you dont care about saving charges for prio dmg/burst)

[thorn fjord]

Can be... I have mine macro'd to Mutilate

[balmy condor]

because if you use ER at 0 you're naturally going to hit one of the animacharges first off the bat

[whole mason]

NS is gone?

[balmy condor]

if we all pray hard enough it might happen

[vestal wren]

probably, it is a fairly low impact node

[whole mason]

I wont pray that kind of thing. If pray hard can make things happen, I'll do it for heavy 3-hit ambush and FoK hitting target twice as well as poison fusion.

[whole mason]

you cant say its gone 1hr ago and now reply me with "probably".

[vestal wren]

well i am not a dev

#outlaw message

[whole mason]

my understanding is that he would treat NS as a featured "passing" node.

it fits his style

[balmy condor]

would giga suck if that were the case

[whole mason]

what case?

NS as passing node?

[balmy condor]

if nightstalker was a node in 10.2

[sudden canyon]

makes sense.

[eager solstice]

@balmy condor did blizz ask you for feedback or nda?

On 10.2 I mean

[oak sky]

Wait realz mentioned rift the other day

I think i played that a bit

[sudden canyon]

blizz asked me for feedback. no nda

i told em to ask chatgpt

seems like those madlads took the comment to heart

[oak sky]

Isnt there a dev update thing today

[eager solstice]

You’re telling me all this time it wasn’t chatgpt dev?

[gusty mirage]

why can't he?

are theorycrafters not allowed to speculate?

[whole mason]

sure they can. but please be consistent

[gusty mirage]

consistent in what

it's all speculatory

[spice spire]

Consistent in speculation?

[whole mason]

if he was speculating, then he could use "was to be"?

[gusty mirage]

or you could not try to dissect someone else's english

[balmy condor]

I wish taco bell consistently offered quesaritos

[gusty mirage]

and not jump down someone's throat for being inconsistent in speculating something that no one has seen

[drifting cloud]

feel free to be consistently quiet for everyone else sake

[eager solstice]

I wish Taco Bell was nicer to my belly

[whole mason]

but his first reply didnt imply speculating. it could somewhere realz said about it and confirmed

[gusty mirage]

it didn't?

[vestal wren]

he mentioned somewhere in the history that he wants to remove low impact/passive dps nodes iirc

[gusty mirage]

do you see a PTR? or have knowledge of some insider information that fuu would be privy to?

[vestal wren]

so its a guess, but overall some nodes qualify for that quit well

[gusty mirage]

literally everything anyone says until things hit PTR is speculation

just because YOU didn't know that

doesn't mean it's not common sense

[vestal wren]

i just go with realz chat history

and everyon can type from:.realz in the search bar and make conclusion based on communication/messages

[whole mason]

i dont have it in the past didn't mean this time fuu's reply cannot be a different case. and I merely try to confirm things there.

[gusty mirage]

so you speculated about fuu having insider knowledge or knowing something that isn't readily available

can we tell you to be more careful with your words then?

[eager solstice]

Stop fighting mom and dad

[balmy condor]

fuu's comment was fine. English isn't his first language and it isn't yours either so it feels weird to criticize his poor word choice when you're the only person who's having the issue

[vestal wren]

i don't have any insider knowlage, sadly

[vapid sierra]

call to suffering sims ahead of beacon 10 ilvl difference

interesting

[balmy condor]

happens sometimes depending on stats and stuff

[whole mason]

i didn't speculate, i read fuu's reply which didn't imply any speculation, that's why i try to confirm it with him. and it turned out to be a speculation. and I merely commented on it lightly. there is no any harsh word anywhere in the conversation.

[vestal wren]

think its fine

you now know what my speculation is based on, what do you speculat will chang?

[gusty mirage]

why would it need to imply speculation, 10.2 ptr isn't out yet

literally anything said is speculation

even things realz posts

[sudden canyon]

it was related to classic hardcore i think

[minor heath]

hey folks, what tertiary enchantments would you guys recommend for mythic prog?

[spice spire]

There’s no insider info.
It’s just people speculating to converse

[gusty mirage]

avoidance & leech

[spice spire]

Leech is usually my go to, but avoidance is also good

[minor heath]

is one better than the other?

[gusty mirage]

leech will probably save you more than avoidance will

esp because if avoidance works, feint works

[spice spire]

Depends on your healing situation

[gusty mirage]

and you're already getting 40% reduction from feint

[minor heath]

oh true. were currently progging rashok, got him to 9% last raid

[gusty mirage]

avoidance is esp good on rashok

[minor heath]

if that changes teh math

[spice spire]

Oh shit GZ

[gusty mirage]

his leaps & group soaks are all feintable

[whole mason]

for this case, my understanding is if fuu read it as a criticism then it actually has no word cirticizing. if fuu comes with humor and think that's a kidding, then that was my intention. The thing is removing NS is happy and good. if it turned out to be not confirmed then that's just some exclamation.

[balmy condor]

rogue's really weak against ticking damage usually so leech is good

[spice spire]

Avoidance is really good - but on our kill I was top healing to myself and leech was over half of that

[minor heath]

Pog whispyr sighting

[balmy condor]

all the stuff on rashok for example is feintable so avoidance is whatever lowkey

just gonna make your healers overheal more

[minor heath]

ok facts that was my guess

i will keep my leech enchants!

ty guys

[balmy condor]

[sudden canyon]

how do you guys feel about dmg being tied to stealth openers in m+ when the game is trending more and more towards this solo player communication-less playstyle. I used to like it, it gave some spec identity but it just feels more like annoyance to me now.

[gusty mirage]

ya you can feint almost all damage on rashok anyway

so avoidance will be a smaller + to your health pool than leech

[minor heath]

i think feint was a top 5 pressed key for me last raid

or basically

[balmy condor]

it's already pretty minor right now so I don't mind it much

[dusk summit]

With 10.1.7 being released for September 5th anyone see anything about the love we getting?

[gusty mirage]

considering changes aren't coming until 10.2

no you won't see anything in 10.1.7

[vestal wren]

10.2 ptr is likely to get up soon after 10.1.7

[gusty mirage]

and probably 1-2 weeks aafter 10.1.7

we should see 10.2 ptr

[vestal wren]

just to be clear, this is just how it is usually handled

[whole mason]

i didn't judge or criticize anyone's english here. it was merely some words to express some fast emotional change from up to down with "oh, thank god it is gone" and then "oh, it's not confirmed".

[sudden canyon]

xD

[dusk summit]

I read the other day they wanted and were pretty set on having the changes for 10.1.7. 😦

[balmy condor]

it was originally planned for 10.1.5

and then got pushed back to 10.2

[vestal wren]

well you could technically say you will have the changes in 10.1.7

because the ptr will be up during the 10.1.7 patch cycle

just that they won't come to the live server before 10.2

[dusk summit]

Oh ic. That's kinda pooping. The fact it was pushed back twice.

[drifting cloud]

it wasnt.

[vestal wren]

it was only pushed back once

[balmy condor]

it was pushed back 1 time

[vestal wren]

from 10.1.5 -> 10.2

[dusk summit]

There was an interview with one of the devs that straight up said 10.1.7

[balmy condor]

there wasn't

[vestal wren]

i assume 10.1.7 dev time was already allocated and they have still a lot of things to do for avoker

so it makes sense to "slot" it in for the next cycle

just my guess

[dusk summit]

Oh it was adjusted almost right after the interview

[balmy condor]

there was an interview with ion that said it was pushed back to the next major patch

[vestal wren]

^

[balmy condor]

which is in fact 10.2

there was an announcement of rogue changes in the 10.1.5 ptr notes

that didn't come

we didn't hear much

interviews said pushed back to next major patch

realz publically said most likely 10.2

that's the timeline

[whole mason]

yes. ion made it clear the work was not passed to other dev and pushed back

[dusk summit]

I don't understand why it takes 2/3rds of an expansion to see progress on a class when virtually all other have seen some kind of tweaking or even major buffs in some cases.

[balmy condor]

we got a whole new capstone in 10.0.5

and sepsis changes

various tunings along the way

[dusk summit]

And yet we still are the least performing spec. And at the bottom in terms of DPS tiers. it's just a bit disheartening to see, that we are bottom of the barrel it seems.

[balmy condor]

least performing spec out of what

[dusk summit]

I think there is one spec lower in m+ on the rankings and that unholy.

[drifting cloud]

game isnt balanced around m+

[balmy condor]

most rogues playing m+ also just play different specs

but yeh

specs are tuned to be able to do +20's

blizzard doesn't tune for +29's

[dusk summit]

I guess that's fair. But you can't say we are on par with the upper classes/spec in terms of numbers. Even in 20s or raid content. Even siming backs that. I have checked in a bit but I skimmed buddies lock and my rogue and he was about 50k give or take higher on ST. With similar Ilvl I'm 442 he 445. (I think 50k). I'll double check.

[balmy condor]

we're well above average for boss damage in raids

highest of the 3 rogue specs

[drifting cloud]

50k

you cant be serious

[balmy condor]

I wasn't gonna touch that ryler

I have 3 warlocks in my guild

prog would've been done much faster if they simmed 180k

[gusty mirage]

you never know with the purple class

their APL could have them casting immolate over and over and over

wouldn't be the first time

[hardy plaza]

For boss damage, yes we're higher than the other two. But aren't we like middle of the pack for all specs?

[vapid sierra]

I thought kir no?

[spice surge]

Boss damage is also famously kinda missleading

[balmy condor]

outlaw in this case is perfectly in the middle

[balmy condor]

name 3 people who play kir

[vapid sierra]

Guy

Me

And unmmmmm

[hardy plaza]

that's specifically 75th percentile though. is that pretty consistent for all the percentiles?

[vapid sierra]

Some guy on Warcraft logs with Asian characters in his name

[gusty mirage]

is it as famously cute as you tho?

[balmy condor]

brother I'm not going to sit here and click through percentiles for you

[spice surge]

[hardy plaza]

Didn't ask you to either. Just asking.

[balmy condor]

it's above average

[spice spire]

That’s what I’m saying man, no need to laugh

[vapid sierra]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[woeful hollow]

which trinket do i take boys the dragonfire can be upgraded to 441 or the frenzying ignoll flare can be ugpraded to 447

[void mesa]

Bomb

[balmy condor]

bomb for sure

[dusk summit]

Redid the sims its been awhile. He is about 10k higher on sims.
I'm at 126 he is at 137. But he does get all the PIs which apparently scale stupidly well.

[woeful hollow]

okay bet gonna run zskarn rq to see if i can get it so i dont need to take

[brittle jungle]

Hi all, is there a haste percentage to have in PvE Assassination ?

[potent topaz]

the normal answer would be to sim your character and raidbots will tell you, if you need more haste

but there are no fixed values for stats

[vapid sierra]

Do like other classes have a hit x amount of stat and stop because of hard or soft cap?

[balmy condor]

rarely

[quiet oar]

There are breakpoint for some classes

But its more relic of the past

Or Do i remember it False?

[balmy condor]

most of the breakpoints are mini things for like getting 1 extra gcd during cooldowns, or a slightly better timing on something that's reduced by haste

shatter cap on frost mages famously

but yeah

[vapid sierra]

Fire with skb

[balmy condor]

it's basically gone at this point

[vapid sierra]

One extra gcd at 25% haste I think?

[balmy condor]

something like that

[vapid sierra]

Yeah makes sense

[balmy condor]

its much more common on casters cause they get gcd and cast time

it just creates some weird timing shit

[quiet oar]

It was more common on previous expac right?

[vapid sierra]

Probably

[balmy condor]

hasn't really been more common since like legion

[quiet oar]

Yeah thats what i mean

[balmy condor]

bfa/shadowlands didn't have much

[quiet oar]

Yeah i meant Legion

But Legion Was weird

Where mainstat wasnt good

[burnt latch]

Fdk gains 1 extra global per pillar of frost every 12.5% haste, makes for some interesting questions in their discord by ppl who think minmaxing this is absolutely critical

Ud lose your mind

[balmy condor]

yeh

there's a ton of shit like that

and the answer is always "it doesn't matter"

it's like assassination restealth in m+ conversation

over and over and over

[woeful meteor]

imagine hasted gcd and shiv debuff

[burnt latch]

Cant play assa on spiteful week

[wary ice]

Fire haste break point for skb is like 10 and then another at like 104

And it's for being able to sneak 5 pyros into a skb and then 104 is "scorch casts faster than the gcd so fireball"

[hollow helm]

!spreadsheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spice spire]

Wdym that’s pad

[burnt latch]

Cant pad if u dont get stealthed garrotes in tho

The age of dilemma

[spice spire]

Mfs act like vanish doesn’t exist

[balmy condor]

give me a number

for how much I need to pad

if I don't get stealthed

I need to know how much I have to abuse the ghosties

maybe an augvoker will notice me if I do

[burnt latch]

From rough calculations around 30% of your damage would need to be on the shades for the damage to equal your stealthed garrotes

[balmy condor]

I'm on it

[burnt latch]

Dont bother double checking this is verified maths

[balmy condor]

using potions for shade damage

[burnt latch]

Smart play

[balmy condor]

holding deathmark

calculating perfect positioning for crimson tempest spamming while they all run away from me

triangulating my poison bomb

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[wary ice]

Whispbot

[burnt latch]

Shades never knew what hit em

[wary ice]

The skynet solution for digital ghosts

[runic hinge]

Spiteful week is great because it gives me an excuse to press evasion in keys

[oak sky]

like lets get real even if breakpoints do exist the answer is always sim yourself

fucking lmao

[frozen iris]

Is there still a dev update or was that for classic hardcore?

[balmy condor]

the dev update was for classic

[gusty mirage]

pad deez nuts on your face buddy

[frozen iris]

Bummer

[burnt latch]

[gusty mirage]

[robust copper]

Ohai, new face here and new-ish rogue player (at least for DRAGONFLIGHT). Had a trinket question, and wanted to know if the elementium anvil is swimming real high for anyone else? It's listed as a F-tier trink on wowhead guide but sims keep saying it needs to be picked over the Onyx Imposters Birthright ring from my Vault. Any and all help appreciated! ❤️

[runic hinge]

Other trinkets are better but trust robot

[keen spruce]

I don't think it's F-tier. not sure when the gear guide was updated on wowhead but it kinda falls more in the low B high C category for most people's sims

not a bad option until you have access to other raid trinkets

or like a harlan's or something

and if you have bad trinkets rn then it'll probably outperform a lot of other random stuff

[robust copper]

My other trinket is the Nelth one. The one being replaced would be a Chromatic Essence

[fading wigeon]

Nelth and chromatic

Over anvil

[keen spruce]

is the anvil like much higher ilvl

[waxen pagoda]

I'm the best assasination rogue from my country yay!

[robust copper]

anvil would be 434 ilvl after i upgrade

nelth is 431 and ominous is 418 so itd be pretty large ilvl from ominous

[keen spruce]

so direct damage trinkets tend to get favored by sims when your character ilvl is lower

it would probably be a short term upgrade

but if you increase your ilvl in all of your other gear slots

you might see the sims shift in favor of the stat trinkets

[robust copper]

yeah like my boots are 408 lol

ok, that's good info!

[keen spruce]

like if you got an early beacon this tier it was kind of hard carrying your damage for a long time

but as people got closer to like 440+ ilvl other trinkets caught up pretty quickly

[robust copper]

beacon doesn't exist. literally never seen that thing drop since raid came out lol

[keen spruce]

and a lot of people dropped beacon in raid for class trinket and chromatic

or*

[idle inlet]

Something to note is the length of the sim make sure it matches with your estimate of fights because anvil gets better the longer the fight

[balmy condor]

@keen spruce issue is who the tier list is for and the content it reflects, compared to all the other options. It’s already flawed to begin with in those regards. Could anvil be good? Sure. If the fight is long enough (like in mythic, it doesn’t have time to stack in normal/heroic). And also only in raid, not in m+. And also if you don’t have any of the better trinkets. Chromatic is equally problematic for similar reasons because if you don’t have all the buffs in your raid it’s just a bad trinket

It’s hard to fully pin down when trinkets are that complicated

Also just the fact that its a tier list

It’s incredibly cringe

[keen spruce]

yeah I was being a little hyperbolic for the context of the question

[balmy condor]

But they require it for our guides

So what can you do

[keen spruce]

all my homies hate tier lists

how much freedom do you have on the format of the tier list?

like can you change the S/A/B/C to something else?

[balmy condor]

It has to be in the traditional S/A/B/C formatting

[keen spruce]

booooo

[balmy condor]

The structure of like tier - item - drop - explanation is locked as well

The best I could do is put the explanation in the note

But then it’s like a fucking 3 paragraph note

And the whole thing is unreadable

And then you just have no idea how good a trinket it

Cause “oh it’s A”

But then the note has 25 caveats

[robust copper]

Oh that's lame. I thought the tier actually meant more than just a format as far as wowhead guides go but that makes sense @balmy condor . In any case that guide has been my sole guiding beacon when trying to do rogue things this expansion so it's very much appreciated!

[balmy condor]

A lot of guide structuring is templated for us for consistency between all wowhead guides, but also for SEO optimizations sadly

And it’s usually fine but yeh

Shit like tier lists, gear bis lists

Functionally pointless

But have to be included

[robust copper]

Gotta get those clicks and search results!

I know the drill, sadly lol

[balmy condor]

Is what it is

I’m glad you enjoy the guide though

[keen spruce]

I know a lot of people get goofed up on the raid/m+ bis lists

not realizing it's just the best items from each form of content in a vaccum

[gusty mirage]

@keen spruce do I get nick of time

or no

[keen spruce]

also if anyone already has a nick of time

I have a tank that agreed to solo the 2nd boss so we can bring 4 rogues if we want

[gusty mirage]

nothing

next week for sure

[earnest remnant]

unfortunate

[gusty mirage]

6th times the charm

ya know

[earnest remnant]

cant get the dagger it would make you to op

[gusty mirage]

same with sark dagger

[earnest remnant]

im not even doing the mega dungeon for it

[gusty mirage]

but the CONTENT bro

its CONTENT

[earnest remnant]

id rather not

[agile osprey]

@keen spruce @pure moth we at 8 or 8:30?

[keen spruce]

i'm gud whenever

[pure moth]

830

Ill be on just before then

[silk bane]

u know what they say.... if the games not giving u daggers, maybe its a sign to pickup a sword and become a pirate 🤔

i didnt say it though, they said it

[gusty mirage]

you trying to get me to ban you?

[silk bane]

but i didnt say it

im just a messanger

[gusty mirage]

@keen spruce if yall are doing a full run: https://wago.io/x8VSSZtNA

[keen spruce]

I don't need no morchie helper

grandpa eyes

but also we're not

[agile osprey]

2 and thru bb

[gusty mirage]

imagine missing out on some mounts

the true end game

[keen spruce]

i'm just saving my mental for next m+ season

[gusty mirage]

no you're not

[keen spruce]

u rite

[gusty mirage]

you're pulling sark with 19 people

who you lying to

[keen spruce]

we dedicated few

o7

[agile osprey]

[pure moth]

LOL

[keen spruce]

oh

[agile osprey]

LOL

[keen spruce]

I might have forgot to put that in the note