assassination

[proven jasper]

fr

[toxic night]

all im asking for is they bring back that knife animation thingy from legion when u press vendetta xd

so satisfying to hear

artifact trait forgot what its called

[spice spire]

I quite like dm animation

[proven jasper]

Me too tbh

[night delta]

I love hashtagging my enemy

[balmy condor]

Like I get the suggestion, I really do. But I don’t get why there’s an expectation for blizzard to just hand out 5% buffs just for the sake of handing out 5% buffs. We’re already one of the better boss damage specs in raid, and we’re beyond 5% bandaids in m+.

Could blizzard just chuck a percent or two around for the hell of it? Sure they could, but why would they take time out of their day to move a symbolic buff with no effect through the pipeline? It’s just busy work at that point so that people can open patch notes and see a number. And guess what, that’s what they did, constantly, all through shadowlands. And then people got upset that it’s just symbolic aura buffs and not actually fixing anything, and now we’re back full circle

It just be like that

[proven jasper]

Praying up to the big bossman at blizzard for 10.2

[spice surge]

They cant win really

[stiff knot]

It's does have an effect for those who choose to play assassination in all forms of content. And, again, you can have both short term aura buffs that help a bit in performance without making the spec overpowered and long term changes to our spec and damage profile that address fundamental issues

[balmy condor]

Okay

[proven jasper]

[balmy condor]

I mean I explained why it:

• doesn’t have an effect
• doesn’t help the performance without making the spec overpowered

But at this point it’s not going to change your opinion

So

Okay I guess

You are entitled to your thoughts

And I respect that

[spice surge]

Also who cares, big changes are coming for next patch anyway

[proven jasper]

We literally already had aura buffs that did just about nothing btw!

Slapping more on top of that does nothing

[toxic night]

need to have this back

[spice surge]

No

We need that to stay the fuck away

Rogue already has two specs that function like that, we dont need a third

[balmy condor]

I love the “is assa good now? It is better than sub?” Spam that came every Tuesday morning after the 3% aura buffs

[night delta]

[proven jasper]

Oh i know i sat it in here waiting to see it LOL

[toxic night]

Daaamn yall hate duskwalkers

[proven jasper]

nah i mean

[balmy condor]

Add another lane to the highway! That’ll fix traffic

And if it doesn’t

We add another!

[cerulean nest]

not every player is terminally online/on discord checking every argument and discussion in all three channels lol. i get that it can get tiring to respond to the same question every time but some people just are looking for casual updates

everyone needs a xanax

[proven jasper]

[spice surge]

Youre instantly hired to the department of transportation for this idea

[balmy condor]

It’s answered in the pins every time it happens but idk who you’re talking to right now honestly, I ain’t complaining about answering questions

[proven jasper]

yo guys 3% aura buff takes us from f tier in m+ to f+ huge!!

[balmy condor]

I’m just pointing out that it’s funny

[toxic night]

for the OGs

[balmy condor]

Anything to avoid public transportation

🫡

[clever sapphire]

i dont mind public transport, i can sleep in there unlike sleeping in a car when i drive

[gusty mirage]

you can sleep while driving though

I wouldn't recommend it

but it's possible

[clever sapphire]

i can sleep once

[gray crest]

doesnt stop some tesla drivers

[clever sapphire]

thats true

[balmy condor]

“I don’t mind public transport”

You didn’t have to say you were EU

[gusty mirage]

I once fell asleep on a road trip and woke up and was about to drive into the median

[clever sapphire]

yes sir, i have no idea about public transport anywhere but where im living

[gusty mirage]

I hope the driver of that car who honked their horn repeatedly waking me up lives a happy and comfortable life

[balmy condor]

Americans don’t have any idea about public transport even where they’re living

Except like New Yorkers

They’ll complain about the subway

[stiff knot]

I mean to say 5% does nothing is just straight up untrue. It helps our bottom line output a little bit and by your own admission doesn't make us overpowered. It's OK to have those kinds of bandaids while we wait for fundamental reworks. I get that you don't agree and that's cool but my argument is sound.

[gusty mirage]

you ever have a homeless man stare deep into your eyes as he's pissing in the corner of a subway train? life changing

[clever sapphire]

give me 20% buff for M+ and people will still take an outlaw over me even

[toxic night]

i swear the animation of this talent was goated

[gusty mirage]

"Declaring your vendetta"

[true basalt]

We sin if we play sin

[gusty mirage]

idk why that makes me giggle

[proven jasper]

LMAO i love the wording there yeah

[balmy condor]

My entire point is that 5% is not enough to change how often assa gets considered, or how it fits into the meta, or how strong it is compared to other specs. It would be the same spot as now, just 5% better. And symbolic buffs like that aren’t worth investing time into

[proven jasper]

Artifact powers were cool

[gusty mirage]

rip legion 😦

class halls were elite tier content

artifacts were cool

just ignore the AP grind and the leggo acquisition early on

and it's a 10/10 expac

oh ignore the pvp templates too

[proven jasper]

What if i said i even liked azerite traits

[gusty mirage]

I liked azerite traits too

I disliked the acquisition

[balmy condor]

I disliked how bad half of them were

[gray crest]

worst thing about legion was that I was playing on a shitty laptop. still 10/10 xpac

[gusty mirage]

that too

[balmy condor]

Twist the knife, echoing blades, shrouded suff, scent of blood

[gusty mirage]

I didn't know you worked for blizzard

[balmy condor]

What other azerite traits were there even

[true basalt]

I never player sin in legion, only priest, was it a valuable spec then?

[proven jasper]

i think i played arms in bfa tbh

was some sweet traits for warrior

[balmy condor]

Sin in legion was like sin now except slower and poison bomb did 20% of your damage

[proven jasper]

mannnn i wish poison bomb hit hard like that

[balmy condor]

So if you rng’d like a mother fucker

[clever sapphire]

damn imagine all the cursed cooked talents there would be if i worked there

[balmy condor]

You’re big

[gray crest]

sin in antorus was very good

[balmy condor]

No you don’t

You super don’t

It was awful

[true basalt]

Was it ever a meta spec in m+ ?

[proven jasper]

maybe but proccing it feels so good

[toxic night]

there was that one patch

[gusty mirage]

no

it was good

but never meta

[toxic night]

with the legendary shoulders opener and DFA

[gusty mirage]

seli hard carried it in legion m+

[balmy condor]

Every envenom just praying you hit the slot machine roll on poison bomb

[gusty mirage]

lol

[subtle tundra]

Like 1 week at the start of bfa

[proven jasper]

well its one thing if ur entire damage profile is relying on that

[subtle tundra]

Before gutting my beloved ss

[gusty mirage]

all I remember about early bfa is that you could 1 shot people with poisoned knife

lol

[balmy condor]

It was your entire AoE as well

[gray crest]

legion MA

[balmy condor]

You legit were just envenoming trying to get a poison bomb

More than the envenom

[proven jasper]

sounds a little familiar

[toxic night]

yea legion design was bad af in aoe

[gusty mirage]

you'd stack this bad boy and 1 shot people in pvp

[toxic night]

either u topped meters by far

or u did dmg xd

0dmg*

[true basalt]

So i heard my bf complaining about affliction lock, that he has to reset agony on targets after using vile taint(cuz it has 25 sec cd with 2set), and i told him we got 45 cd on IC and we also have to refresh dots with a 6 second cd on garrote, and he shut up xD

[gray crest]

a warlock complaining when they are better than the alternative? never heard that one before

[proven jasper]

xD

[clever sapphire]

a dot spec complaining that they have to keep up dots, imagine that

[gusty mirage]

you remember sepulcher?

[gray crest]

did you mention that IC is a capstone and their vile taint isnt

[gusty mirage]

"demo is dogshit without PI"

[gray crest]

[balmy condor]

A warlock complaining?

[true basalt]

He’s new to affli, so its only normal that he finds this odd, i just found it funny

[gusty mirage]

like okay buddy

[stiff knot]

Lol all the time an aura buffs takes to create

[balmy condor]

Isn’t that the excuse this patch too? And last patch?

[gusty mirage]

[true basalt]

I was actually pretty good without pi in sepulcher, pi was just amping it like crazy, but it was good even without

[balmy condor]

You’re aware that they have procedures?

[gusty mirage]

roujin and I's raid leader was ADAMANT that demo w/o PI was "the worst spec in the game"

[balmy condor]

One guy going in and changing a number and that’s that, isn’t quite how it works

[gusty mirage]

meanwhile we played rogue and cried

🥲

[clever sapphire]

i work in a kind of a big company, even getting the smallest changes through could take months if not years, we have a few programs from 2005 because they still couldnt be convinced it needs an update

so changing a spec even by 5% has to go through too many people for it to not even matter in the end

also im pretty sure 5% would hurt the discord (and/or community too) even more because so many people would be back to dooming after the patch when we are still deadlast in M+ and our position wouldnt change in raid

[silk bane]

I dont think thats how this works in this situation. if you're in an org, and you have 18 different departments independantly using some script rom 20 years ago, then you would have to go through all of thsoe departments and all of that shit to get some change done. it will disrupt a lot of other peoples work

[strange python]

Been gone for a bit, why is Exsanguinate not taken anymore?

[silk bane]

whereas tuning here is very very simple, probably a few people do it, its a routine change

[clever sapphire]

its bugged and not working with DM

[proven jasper]

Its bugged

[strange python]

O.o

[gusty mirage]

when deathmark dupes the exsang'd bleeds it doesn't copy over the tick rate

so it deadge

rip bozo to exsang

[proven jasper]

We love dead talents here

[balmy condor]

It still has to be discussed and approved up the chain regardless

[clever sapphire]

tuning guy wants to increase numbers by 5%, it goes to his boss, his boss talks to the information department asking how assa numbers are looking in raid and M+, they tell him assa good in Raid so 5% would be bad for the raiding community, even if they say aight, now it has to go to the team that actually pushes the patch notes and ask them when and if it would be possible. Now all the info has to go back to the tuning guy who probably forgot he even said these buffs and he has to look back to what he meant and when and if its still doable or the patch already hit

[gusty mirage]

@clever sapphire hey woah this isn't a place for logical analysis of situations

[clever sapphire]

(Also consider everyone is working on something seperate and 5% buffs wont be on the top of their approval lists most likely)

[clever sapphire]

wait if this isnt whats outlaw? xD

[silk bane]

thats true, but im assuming they probably have some sort of daily scrum, they go over it, then each week they go over it, and say alright we change this much. tuning is seperate from the other departments gnerally, so shouldnt really need input from anyone other thna say, for the lack of term ' tuning team manager'

[gusty mirage]

its corporate america man

you know how many useless meetings they have per day

western countries adore their useless meetings that can be summed up in emails

[silk bane]

1. youre saying bad for the community as in they cant litealrly change it back next week. it'll be fine. 2)you also mentioned the 'info guy' but that info guy is probably the tuning guy himself. its more likely that theres a few tuning dudes, who look at the data, then they present it to team lead or manager or whatever, and say alright for this week, lets look at this.

like things that are routine, they become efficient over time, you cant create an organization that does routine things, but each routine task has to go through the corporate bs.

[balmy condor]

Can you imagine they buff a spec and the nerf it right after

Holy

The backlash from that

Would be staggering

That would never happen

[silk bane]

imagine if everytime you wanted to get a coffee, you would have to ask your boss, then he asks the BA for coffee department, then the BA sets a meeting with coffee supply department. no, its a routine thing, you wil have a routine setup for it

[silk bane]

surprised pikachoo face

[storm forum]

I mean, it's what they do every rework

[silk bane]

but also, lowkey thats what they did to spriest

kinda funny

[strange python]

Is exsang being fixed?

or looked into

[clever sapphire]

nerfs after rework are different than 5% changes, since reworks change playstyle

[clever sapphire]

exsang probably getting reworked for 10.2

[balmy condor]

Reworked or deleted

[strange python]

I like exsang tho :/

[silk bane]

yaeh, reworks actually are much much different han a tuning change. a rework might require new animations, might require certain optimizations, idk it can actually involve multiple departments

[storm forum]

I recommend a bfa private server

[balmy condor]

Shame

[burnt latch]

i went viral like 10 years ago when i uploaded a picture online of two 70-year-old hobos fucking on a tram stop

helsinki is like new york frfr

[gusty mirage]

yo ngl when I saw a ping in this channel

[balmy condor]

Theres no chance it lives 10.2 after the mess at the start of the expac

[gusty mirage]

that was nowhere near my brain as to what I'd open

[balmy condor]

I cannot believe it

[burnt latch]

was it a good or a bad suprise

[gusty mirage]

I'm.... I'm not sure

[burnt latch]

i still have the pictures

[gusty mirage]

I'm good, ty

[burnt latch]

just let me know when you figure out

[gusty mirage]

@gray crest told me he wants you to DM it to him

[storm forum]

Have we made rework bingo cards yet?

[gray crest]

I dont want another picture of Exo

[burnt latch]

it was funny as hell, it was april so like 0 degrees celcius and they both had a 24 pack of beer next to them

downtown helsinki

hobos have no shame

[gray crest]

and neither does exo

[silk bane]

dont judge me, made it in 3 seconds.

[spice spire]

2/10 missing the “is 10.2 PTR up yet?” Post

[silk bane]

how.. how do I even.... bro how do i incorporate that? SHARE ME YOUR WISDOM MR QUAKE

[spice spire]

Over the nail gun

Hello?

[silk bane]

ah

idk

[spice spire]

That wasn’t from me man

Hold

[silk bane]

too late. im out here spreading misinformation. cant stop me

[spice spire]

#assassination message

Damn

This one is way funnier

[silk bane]

true, one sec

[storm belfry]

I miss artifact weapons

[silk bane]

alright i am uh artiiiiist

[spice spire]

Beautiful

[silk bane]

I cried a little when I saw it.

[spice spire]

Next time I see him in chat I’ll ask him what he thinks about your opus

[silk bane]

Thank you, looking forward to it

[spice spire]

Np

[gaunt moat]

@keen spruce raid when

cancelled?

[keen spruce]

we live

fkin both warlocks out today

no gate for p2

no cookies

[gaunt moat]

I'm sure that's not gonna be an issue

[silk bane]

honestly just roar it and run.

and grip whoevers behind

[keen spruce]

yeah it's not that bad

a few people died to rocks

but surely they'll figure it out

[silk bane]

oh yeah um for that

its called um

monitor

tell them to turn it on

we had people dying during corruption and they kept blaming othe people for killing them, after 30 pulls we stopped to see who exactly was killing them, turns out they were just eating rocks

gaming

[austere fulcrum]

+23 Uld. i think we do okay no ?

[balmy condor]

Now -40k from the boomy rogue prot for the aug

[royal lantern]

wdym the spec is 100% fine

not the biggest mistake blizz did in a long time

[vestal wren]

is the wcl damage meter overlay already out?

[balmy condor]

No

[clever sapphire]

damn if only we got a 5% buff too, it wouldnt have changed anything but my copium meters would have been also at 5%

[runic hinge]

Uld is a banger dungeon for high overall

[balmy condor]

I will hurt you

(In game)

[clever sapphire]

[gusty mirage]

shame it's a dogshit dungeon for anything else

like enjoyment

fun bosses

length

atmosphere

[vestal wren]

just wait for s3 dungeons

[royal lantern]

cant wait for 7min morchie fight, where 1 missed trap/broken cc means a wipe

and ofc nothing was changed

[vestal wren]

the leaked list had a lot of exciting dungeons with fun bosses, dungeon lenghs and atmosphere

[royal lantern]

cus changes to dungeons can only happen 1 1/2 months after a patch launch

🙂

[runic hinge]

True

Tyr weeks in there are hell

[clever sapphire]

Tyr weeks are hell*

just had to correct you

feck tyr weeks

[runic hinge]

Truuuu

[silk bane]

ill be honest, im rpetty sure that leak is fake for 2 reasons.

1. we'd probably get some emerald dream theme dungeon
2. if you told people to make a 8 dungeon list that would make people quit wow for the season, thats the list you would get

[vestal wren]

agree, it is very likely not correct

[atomic star]

if darkheart thicket isnt in the rotation ill eat my shoes

so says the SHADOW of xavius

[royal lantern]

yes

we need all those "have a immunity or die" dungeon bosses back again

[atomic star]

tbh i remember nothing about the dungeon

just the malfurion voice line lol

[gaunt moat]

@keen spruce Time for new guild?

[keen spruce]

nah

we kicked a mage after raid tho

[atomic star]

im aboutta find a new guild

people cant dodge lava on mythic rashok im aboutta lose my gd mind

[cobalt hemlock]

please do but be mindful the decision is most likely going to be final with no way of going back if you have friends there you like

[atomic star]

yeah gotta do what you gotta do if you wanna progress though

never gonna get CE with them lol

rashok feels like a joke with all these nerfs and we don't even get close to killing him 💀

[clever sapphire]

Is CE really worth it if you abandon your friends for it

[balmy condor]

I have the opposite issue

[gaunt moat]

If they were true friends, they would turn their monitor on when playing

[balmy condor]

I'm ass at the game but for some reason my guild keeps inviting me

[clever sapphire]

maybe they like your ass

[balmy condor]

they better cause my law is terrible

[atomic star]

this guy gets it

[cobalt hemlock]

probably just too hard on yourself

[clever sapphire]

Aight so i have a cursed take before heading to sleep.
For the rogue rework: remove IC, make it so assa in lower keys is just there for funneling 1 guy and for bosses, and for higher keys make it so dotting becomes more relevant since mobs live there, so the higher the key the better we get (didnt think aboit any talents here, just how i personally find they should balance assa)

[cobalt hemlock]

please no

[gusty mirage]

[cobalt hemlock]

they added similar effect to every spec

and it just feels better than tabbing dotting everything

[gusty mirage]

well there's a large contingency of assassination players that disagree with you

[ebon notch]

so enha shaman

[gusty mirage]

where they feel like juggling all those bleeds is part of the skill expression of the spec

[balmy condor]

from my experience, most of the time stuff will only feel bad because the damage isn't high

the moment it does damage, it's the best thing that's ever existed

[gusty mirage]

remember how much everyone hated sepsis in SL?

and ER?

[atomic star]

i still hate sepsis tbh

[balmy condor]

see also:
fok spamming 10x in a row with echoing blades
ignoring an entire resource with 90% haste in nyalotha
poison bomb in legion

[winged veldt]

@keen spruce I feel your pain brother. We have people doing dumb shit on that boss too. How did it feel without a lock?

[cobalt hemlock]

okay that definitely could change my mind

[cobalt hemlock]

playing without warlock has to be turbo cursed like waiting for 5 minutes each pull? put me out of my misery

[keen spruce]

about the same

[cobalt hemlock]

actually if they can make it right and we are THE dot class it could be cool but like i said the dmg has to be there not like now where playing assa is just harder and it also does less dmg than sub

[keen spruce]

didn't really need the gate tbh

[winged veldt]

we got to 8% but raid tonight and tomorrow will determine some slots coming up lol

140 pulls and people still running aorund like a chicken with their heads cut off lol

[burnt latch]

Dont delete IC

Buttons fun

Just make bleeds do something on top of just damage and energy

[hollow swift]

Sorry to interrupt but anyone knows when the rogue rework is gonna drop?

[burnt latch]

10.2

[lyric crater]

how about bleed igorne armor good start

[hollow swift]

Well

[burnt latch]

It already does

[lyric crater]

o ok i though it didnt so whoops on my end ty sir

[hollow swift]

Thats gonna probably come out at mid autumn ye?

[burnt latch]

Your guess is as good as anyones

Could be 2024 for all we know

[hollow swift]

Until then we are gonna be stucking with this

[burnt latch]

What is that

[hollow swift]

7 keys from assa rogues at the +21 and above range

For this week

At least thats what subcreation thinks

[atomic star]

lmao

i took this week off because of spiteful but i didnt know everyone did

[hollow swift]

I guess we just all hate spiteful

[runic hinge]

One of those is me Xd

[atomic star]

is there another spec in the game that gets obliterated by 1 affix like sin gets destroyed by spiteful lol

i dont play many other classes

[hollow swift]

Just press evasion 4head

Thats what most ppl tell me

[atomic star]

call me when evasion gives me improved garrote

[hollow swift]

Facts

[atomic star]

btw are we running arterial precision in vortex pinnacle this season or is that troll

i havent tried it but thought it might be good since every pull is like 5 mobs

[hollow swift]

Imo its not worth

But thats just me talking

[woeful meteor]

to much st loss for a key that gets decided by killing stars on final

[clever sapphire]

Aight so 1 way i could see dotting and keeping it up relevant is if we had a talent where rupture and/or garrote did x% inscreased dmg for each second its on the enemy up to x%. This way it wouldnt do anything in low keys where mobs die in 2 seconds, and this way you would have to keep the dots up if you wanted them to do dmg instead of just letting them drop because you got the energy anyways.
And now you would have to dot the prio targets and not just some random mob so you have enough energy to spam CT

Thats it for my cursed takes tonight

Gn

[hollow swift]

Bruh I'm gonna have nightmares of that

[cobalt hemlock]

woudnt that just be agony? you dont want to make assa melle affliction

[craggy oak]

rework it, bin it, jsut not what it is now, idk whats fun about a bleed spec not caring about bleeds after opener regardless if it gives you a button

[balmy condor]

based

[burnt latch]

Its fun because it removes the act of manually having to apply rupture to a million mobs, which is ass gameplay imo

[craggy oak]

2min aoe dm would be cool, bin exang, repalce it with passive that makes bleeds tick out faster passivly like the lock one?, make pb proc off of rupture, let us have acees to dance, would seem like a half decent aoe game loop to me

[burnt latch]

Id rather be able to spread my bleeds asap and then spend the next 30 seconds pressing something more interesting

[craggy oak]

in an ideal world would sin have no bleeds for you?

[craggy oak]

like spamming cT?

[burnt latch]

Nope, bleeds would still be there and spreadable with IC like i just said

[vapid sierra]

!crafted

!craft

any crafted gear worth making apart slimy/toxic?

[craggy oak]

idk im no dev, interesting is good. maybe there is a world where there is an interesting solution to sin aoe where we dont need to press any bleeds after opener, but it seems completely against the design philosophy of a bleed/dot spec

[burnt latch]

Theres other options other than having to spam CT

[balmy condor]

the ones that sim high

[vapid sierra]

easy way to sim them?

[spice surge]

Droptimizer

[balmy condor]

droptimizer

[vapid sierra]

what tab

[burnt latch]

Feral has good finisher concepts for aoe that could be copied over to assa. Now that would be extremely lazy, but if they managed to cook those things im sure they’d be able to do the same for assa

[balmy condor]

"crafted"

[vapid sierra]

not there

is it for premium only?

[balmy condor]

professions

[vapid sierra]

professions

fuckl

[craggy oak]

its sub but less intersting, open - builder - choose prio or aoe finisher, at least with sub you have dance thrown in there, sec tec which feels cool, sin has no "dance" or "sectec" moment whilst we are mindlessly pressing the same boring finisher

[craggy oak]

but feral actively applies bleeds, like alot

[burnt latch]

With a button thats essentially IC

[craggy oak]

bruh cmon, once every opener, to, idk what it is exaclly but feels like 7-10 secs

[burnt latch]

There u go you answered your own question, make IC shorter duration shorter CD

[craggy oak]

if ic has a 10 sec cd, and we can have perma passive exang

then im down, i guesss, ish

i just will never understand why you wouldn't want to have the main focus of a bleed spec to be applying bleeds, guess it is jsut a opinion thing

[burnt latch]

You keep thinking of IC and how it works with current assa, which seems a bit short sighted. Sure the button feels a bit lazy when your aoe rotation is keeping CT up and spamming envenom. But what if envenom had a significant damage buff attached to it that had a short duration to maintain, maybe a finisher that gives you a mid lenght damage amp to maintain too, and have CT be a thing on top of that. Then IC becomes a cool way to enable different gameplay loops as you dont have to spend all your resources applying garrotes and ruptures in aoe, but can rather do something more interactive and fun, whilst still keeping bleeds a core part of the spec

[craggy oak]

again man, guess its opinion, i want to be applying bleeds with my bleed buttons as a bleed spec, no matter how many cool things we can think up around it to support a fire and forget bleed application loop, i see what you're getting at but just dislike the thought greatly

no ic, dance sin in keys seems some pretty top tier paly to me.

[balmy condor]

I agree bleed specs should be bleed

IC dumb

[burnt latch]

Eh guess its just preference, but I actually somewhat enjoy playing assa in keys because of IC, where as in SL i absolutely hated it and it was because of manually having to apply tons of ruptures

[craggy oak]

honestly i said it before, just give us a way to passively condense our bleed duration, make pb or some shit proc off of rupture, and gib dance, hella reworded for all your work pressing them bleeds

[craggy oak]

also that is probs down to neever being rewarded for pressing those ruptures though to some extent?

[burnt latch]

Guess we’ll see which way the dev team swings in the matter soon enough

[craggy oak]

^^

[burnt latch]

Well hard to say what would be a satisfying reward for applying them, dont think it doing damage would make me like the playstyle

Seems like they’ve been slowly giving all the dot based classes fast ways to multidot

[craggy oak]

slowly killing dot specs*

[burnt latch]

Depends on what u like

[craggy oak]

aff super hot fiery garbage to play atm imo, they dont know that the fuck they doing with spiests, and feral i do enjoy tbf

[burnt latch]

Single applying dots is a slower gameplay style, which some people probably enjoy and some probably dislike, but its quite oppressive to other ways of playing the spec

[craggy oak]

but atleast in my mind, dot specs should be made to work, should be made to dot and be rewarded for it, AND, also have a window where they can mass dot everything to chill and feel like gods

[burnt latch]

If u need to single maintain dots, it takes a lot of time and effort and resources, not leaving the spec room for many other actions (which is why I think they’ve moved away from that gameplay style slowly)

[craggy oak]

ye i agree with that

i think there is a healthy balence to be found somewhere though

[burnt latch]

If u need to keep up 8 ruptures and garrotes on 8 targets you wont have too many extra globals for other stuff u know

Yeah possibly, maybe they’ll even find a way to please both crowds

[craggy oak]

we have no other stuff to do unless they add shit

[burnt latch]

Which is my biggest issue with assa!

Thats why i always liked when u pressed CT on st for example

[craggy oak]

but at that point, how much can you change a spec ebfore it is literly not the same spec it has always been

[burnt latch]

Gave the spec a bit more to do

[craggy oak]

you can not shake up asa so much without bascially making something completely new

cos it is always going to be sin with "ah now we have a bte esc buff to maintain" etc etc

[burnt latch]

I dont think it needs to stay the same spec it has always been, sometimes rewamps are for the better, this spec felt very much the same when I came back in shadowlands as it did in MoP when I quit

[craggy oak]

fuck me i would love we got CT baseline in the ST rotation, cos yano bleeed spec with another bleed to maintain cos i love my bleeds, but many people would burn me at the stake for mentioning such a thing

[craggy oak]

maybe thats what we need, but they did say nothing ret sized would be happening again, which i think completly changing assa would constitute as such

[burnt latch]

ct on st is superior gameplay and anyone who disagrees is either old or has never played other specs

[subtle tundra]

Woah big discussion

Im drunk! Herb, you win!

[burnt latch]

Yeah true, but maybe slowly trying to introduce something new, doesnt all need to happen in one patch

[craggy oak]

varas, tell herbo how much you love tab targeting your bleeds

[burnt latch]

Mykos gamer

[subtle tundra]

I do remember fondly how I'd tab target and feel useful

[burnt latch]

Id kill for a cold mykos

[silk bane]

i agree with warcieft, 'not wanting to change assa' is what got it to its current situation. if the game has changed, then the spec needs to change to adjust as well.

[subtle tundra]

Nah I'm drinking Romanian beer

Neumarkt and ursus

[burnt latch]

Sounds like its gonna make u blind

[subtle tundra]

0 chance youve tried them

[subtle tundra]

I am fucked 😀😀😀 and happy 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😁😁😁

[burnt latch]

[subtle tundra]

Man I love being drunk

I wish my face was public

[vapid sierra]

on zskarn

what do you guys do to adds?

like obviously we dot for energy

but like how many should i rupture? just one low cp rupture on one add is good?

or should i rupture multiple

[oak sky]

REAL

[oak sky]

[dense herald]

With the rogue rework on the horizon is there a spot on forums rogues have been collecting feedback/suggestions in one place?

[gusty mirage]

sometimes realz pops in and asks for people's opinions

that's about it

[cerulean walrus]

Some bozos scared off Realz and now he doesn’t talk with us anymore

Dad left to go get milk

[spice spire]

Bless up

[silk bane]

dude im so bored im gonna try to push all keys to 25 with sin. fuck it, we brick till 10.2

[frozen iris]

I’d be down but I don’t have a group of friends to play with

Luckily I was only kicked three times for being Sin. But I wasn’t able to get into a single 20 which is unfortunate.

[vapid sierra]

someone told me i was last on add damage on skarn

[frozen iris]

What leak?

[winged veldt]

Well Echo dead baby! Now to Sark jail hell lol

[slim hamlet]

a random twitter post

[frozen iris]

Anybody have a link I always find fake leaks interesting

[slim hamlet]

no idea

just think of the worst dungeons made

that was the list

not the worst imo, but everyone else seems to hate that

[frozen iris]

Yikes I don’t remember enjoying any of these lol. Maybe kings rest and grim batol?

[slim hamlet]

shado pan is one i like

that everone else seems to dislike

[distant helm]

siege and kings rest pls no

[ebon notch]

i will be a weekly gamer if this is the rotation

absolute ass cheeks

[slim hamlet]

boralus is legit never gonna happen

there is no chance

[frozen iris]

Yeah I don’t remember enjoying it what so ever. Seige is gonna be a nightmare

[ebon notch]

imagine if they give alliance boralus

[slim hamlet]

the least obvious fake leak ever

[distant helm]

i remember siege keys only beeing possible during bolstering bc you giga bolstered that one mob

[oak sky]

Shado pan and everbloom are like pretty good choices tho tbh

Imo

At least theyre open

[ebon notch]

nah

those are going to absolutely

blast our assholes

[oak sky]

Theres shit they would need to fix

[ebon notch]

remember temple of the jade serpent?

same expansion

same insanely awful mechanics

[oak sky]

Yeah shit was ass

[slim hamlet]

I would bet on everbloom and the brew pandaria dungeon coming in one of the next seasons

[ebon notch]

those dungeons are ONLY fun as heroic dungeons while leveling

[oak sky]

Bro stormstout brewery is guaranteed as

Ass

Like you cant make it good

[ebon notch]

if i ever have to do a +27 monastery ill have gone insane

[slim hamlet]

everbloom voted so much for and i feel like a looooot of people have been wanting that brew one too

[oak sky]

Brewery would be an awful key

[slim hamlet]

I would giga hate everbloom

I love pandaria dungs in general

besides the 2 with giga rp

[drifting cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-the-voices-hallucinations-gif-24630735

[keen spruce]

i saw you on the rank 1 healer parse log for sark

they did you dirty man

[drifting cloud]

lol no biggie

can confirm getting the gate duress sucks big time

it procced my cheat again this week

[ebon notch]

Is how it is

[frozen iris]

I don’t think there is but is there a better way than tab targeting for aoe?

[main blaze]

tab targetting can be pretty good when you get used to it

Could always have colored nameplates for high priority targets

[frozen iris]

I use a mixture of tab targeting and clicking high prio targets. I use cevarions plater profile

Just curious if I can optimize In some way

[keen spruce]

that's all I do

[loud brook]

I would give so much to get echoing blades back

and also shiv and aoe shiv being put earlier because it just doesn't compete/feel as fun

[clever sapphire]

Ah ye true, i forgot about affli lock

I still dont like IC

[deft flicker]

Also wouldn’t adding agony ramp-up make the damage even more backloaded than it is now??

[clever sapphire]

The dmg stays the same as it is now, it just gets increased overtime

So better for mobs that live, and you get punished for being shit at managing dots

Right now the only bad thing that happens if you let your dot fall, is that whispyr gonna get angry at you

[deft flicker]

I get punished for mobs dying in 30s

And I get punished for bosses having immune phases/intermissions where they fly away

If anything maybe the reverse would actually be better

You cut your finger and it bleeds. But then it gradually bleeds less and less and eventually stops altogether

And this might also lead to choices like “do I spend more resources and time for refreshing bleeds early and getting higher uptime on juicier first ticks or do I just set the bleeds up and use them as an energy source for other stuff”

[pseudo hamlet]

Didn't they sort of promised us a rework? I mean overall for the rogue class? It wouldn't make sense to waste resources to change something right now if it's going to be meaningless soon...

[balmy condor]

10.2

[idle inlet]

They did but ya boy's gotta cope somehow and for me that's with memes lol

[keen spruce]

idgaf about 10.2 i just wanna kill nelth

[balmy condor]

Buffs ain’t fixing that

[keen spruce]

i don't care about buffs until sark is dead

on a brighter note

I have successfully convinced my raid to give me all of the sauce in p3 nelth

so i should now get pocket aug and pi

[balmy condor]

[keen spruce]

but we also g-kicked a mage after raid yesterday

cuz he was big wizard terrorist

[balmy condor]

I thought you said you were trying to kill nelth

[keen spruce]

and complained too much

look

we work with what we've got

and our two best players are me and a surv hunter

and i'm the only one doin damage in p3

we've also been cursed by roster boss

tank broke his foot an hour before raid last week playin fuckin volleyball and missed a night

warlock's mom got in a car crash with a drunk driver yesterday so he's out at least this whole week

no monk buff or warlock yesterday

[royal lantern]

why does he need a working foot for wow raiding

playing with a pedal?

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

[keen spruce]

he had to drive like 30 minutes to a hospital

and... i'm not sure if this is a meme

but someone said he also uses foot pedals

[royal lantern]

yeha, thats serious

[keen spruce]

we haven't had the same roster on 2 consecutive raid nights

in over a month

[clever sapphire]

Dont you have a pedal for your KICK?

Smh

You gotta immerse yourself

[cunning nest]

Tbh... This would be so COOL, not gonna lie xD

[gusty mirage]

@keen spruce

[gaunt moat]

You guys should have been there for the speech Shmeep's RL gave them after the raid

Well, more like an admonishment

[winged veldt]

I feel this in my soul! We did race to world last and roster boss was kinda a small part of that last season lol. Had a stable roster for the most part this season and downed Nelth lastnight thank god!

[winged veldt]

Shoulda heard ours before raid haha! He snapped cuz of high school drama he said she said lol!

Also any advice for Sark is appreciated lol! P1 feels like a dice roll of us getting to p2 on these first few pulls lol!

[gaunt moat]

Shmeeps's threatened them he'll disband

[winged veldt]

Oh shit lol!

[gaunt moat]

Congrats on nelth btw!

[winged veldt]

Bruh f that fight to hell!

Literally change 1 person and it’s complete prog again it felt like

[gaunt moat]

I use cloak before taking flame breath.
And for the end part, i make sure to feint and crimson vial

[winged veldt]

Yea my raid lead wanting to force me into sub cuz “well only 10% or less were assa for sark kills” so we will see. I honestly don’t care as long as it dies. Yea seems solid to do that as P2 doesn’t seem like a ton of damage going out at all.

Rogue feels meh as fuck on these last two anyways so lol

[gaunt moat]

Sub is probably better. Sin is kinda poopoo these days.
But sin will probably do more boss damage.
Just that it won't be very obvious until you reach execution %

[gusty mirage]

For sark? Not really

The timings aren’t exactly fantastic for sub

[winged veldt]

Will see how tomorrow feels. We had plenty of aoe on nelth so should be fine for adds but who fucking knows lol

[gusty mirage]

All 3 rogue specs are bad on it, you can play what you want on the boss

Difference is haste isn’t useless for assassination

[gaunt moat]

In phase 2 for sure it's better than sin.
And its boss damage ain't bad either

[gusty mirage]

And you have pot + CDs + haste buff for the final burn

You mean the adds that the classes that have better cleave than sub can delete while sacrificing no ST?

[winged veldt]

Yes that was my arguement to the RL lastnight lol

[gusty mirage]

That p2?

[gaunt moat]

It's doing that + also killing big add and boss

[gusty mirage]

If you’re focusing the big add as a rogue you’re doing it wrong

[winged veldt]

Guess imma have to see how it plays out as we have terrorist in our raid so they may kill a few of our aoe/cleave before end of 2/3 lol

[gaunt moat]

I am focusing 2nd and 3rd

[gusty mirage]

[gaunt moat]

I don't think that's wrong.
I've seen others focusing them too (Scana for examle)

And we need that damage on them

[gusty mirage]

You’ve seen scana focusing the adds on farm? Wild

[gaunt moat]

I don't know if it was farm or not

[gusty mirage]

If you’re progging sark as a rogue you’re there for boss damage, adds should be getting focused by classes that are better equipped for it

Which is almost every other class in the game

[winged veldt]

Tbh I need to check some of you guys logs and see what you are doing so I don’t have to recreate the wheel lol

[gaunt moat]

Our boss damage is already high enough
It's like at 48% on transition to P3

[gusty mirage]

Uh sure

Before augvokers existed 48% was cutting it close to enrage

Like the boss would die during the enrage cast if you phased into p3 at 48%

You wanted 46% for a safe kill

And scana’s been on farm since like late May/early June

He’s playing for parses

[winged veldt]

How are the clears in P1 for you guys? We have mw/hpriest and 2 sp, so plenty of dispels. Thinking we should split the raid more than just tanks/heals on 1 and rest of raid on another? People getting fucking rekt during that alone

[gusty mirage]

That’s just a healer thing to figure out

It’s a shit ton of damage either way

[winged veldt]

Ah ok. Yea they had us try entire raid dispel on same breath and then same disintegrate and that was a shit show lol

[gusty mirage]

You ideally stack as many as you can in one clear so healers can stack CDs

But p1 is just rough

[spice surge]

Its usually easier to do all at once since you can stack defensives for it, whereas if you do half and half you wont have as much cds

[gusty mirage]

Surprised they haven’t nerfed it again

Tbh

[winged veldt]

Ah ok. Well only like 5-10 pulls on it so we have hundreds more to figure it out lol

[gusty mirage]

Yeah once healers figure it out people will be safer, but you still just get trucked

P1 is the shittiest part of that fight for everyone

Except maybe tanks

[royal lantern]

first 30something pulls is healers and ranged clicking gates so they dont die on pull

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

[winged veldt]

Yes that shit is funny af lol

[gusty mirage]

Last two bosses take so many pulls because ranged have to do mechanics for the first time in their lives

[winged veldt]

“Oh click it at the end of this wa cast” ahhhhh! Died next pull

[spice surge]

Idk p1 is the most fun part imo, feels like something is always happening, damage is relevant and healing is tight

[gusty mirage]

I mean at this point none of it is fun for me

[spice surge]

P3 and p2 have some "ok so just dps for 20s before this mechanic comes"

[gusty mirage]

I just wanna kill shit and log off lmao

[winged veldt]

I just wanna do reclear as I still can’t get a fucking bomb in this game!

[gusty mirage]

I’m forever benched for zskarn because our ww still needs the bomba trinket

And I’ve never been happier to be benched in my life

Holy fuck that boss is terrible

[spice surge]

Atleast its only terrible now after the changes

[gusty mirage]

[spice surge]

Before it was like the worst boss theyve done in a long time, now its just terrible

[gusty mirage]

Rip cheese strat

Some nice 11-14 minute kills

[royal lantern]

"RANGED ALWAYS HAS MECHANINCS MELEE DOESNT HAVE!!!"

meanwhile those ranged mechanics: done solo by a hunter, the Others dont even know what they need to do, they just stand still and dps

and then you have echo/sark and it all crumbles away

[gusty mirage]

So true, remember that mechanic on magmorax when they had to move 2 feet and could still do damage?

[winged veldt]

Lmmfao exactly lol!

[gusty mirage]

And sometimes they had to like position the circles

Or on experiments when they had to sometimes gather up for dispels?

Tragic

[gaunt moat]

@blazing jewel did you focus any big adds on sark during prog, or kept hitting boss in p2?

[winged veldt]

Our RL went from boomy to hpal and was like “holy fuck being a melee ever again” lol

[royal lantern]

you mean for the First 20pulls into p3 stand still on the dispell Spot, even when the breath happens, and then wipe the raid by baiting it into the group/by not doing balls?

[gusty mirage]

My last guild we had that same thing where ranger thought melee was easy, our boomkin rolled into to heroic skolex on his DK, and died 3 times to the swirlies

He didn’t log on to the DK ever again

[slow needle]

Can we all take just a moment to spare a thought for all those people who rerolled lock when it was uber busted and stuck with it into DF.

Then had to do their first boss without soulshape.

[royal lantern]

wdym

warlock has endless rush now lol

and instant gate

[slow needle]

I saw a lot of warlock deaths in those first few weeks.

Due to not moving fast enough.

[clever sapphire]

What about people that rerolled rogue and even geared assa?

[royal lantern]

who rerolled rogue

nobody plays rogue lol

[clever sapphire]

Its funny because its true

[pure moth]

3 rogues in my guild .... lol

[cobalt hemlock]

im the only one in ours and before i came they had 0 lol

[pure moth]

We had 1 switch around first season i was here.. then we got another cuz we needed a body

[dawn haven]

I've been the only rogue in my guild since like Sanctum of Domination, but at the end of last tier we finally got another rogue in the roster lmfao.

Having no-one to bounce off of with logs and stuff for so long was sadge.

[balmy condor]

I’ve also been the only one

We had a second rogue for like 3 weeks after razageth died

And then they rerolled warrior

[vestal wren]

same experience, every rogue we had in our guild either stopped playing or rerolled

[pure moth]

Weve got every spec covered. No log bouncing ever hah

[dawn haven]

lmao

[clever sapphire]

When i was still in a guild we had a second rogue for like 2 weeks in sepulcher when outlaw was pumping

[storm belfry]

Our rogue re rolled when I joined and said I was gonna play rogue for a tier. They are now a spriest

[vapid sierra]

how

[sweet dawn]

Can you wear 2 Signet of Titanic Insight? Or do I need to get a ringbound hourglass?

Coolio ty

[pure moth]

Just how it ended up.

[vapid sierra]

i rarely run into rogues

[gusty mirage]

because I told them all you're smelly

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

dude doing keys is such a blast

wowie

I haven't had so much fun in my life

[runic hinge]

I broke 90 for the first time today. Shot a 39 on the back. Also best 9 holes ever

[gusty mirage]

huge

[vapid sierra]

its a choice

gets rid of the women

[vapid sierra]

golf?

im more of a miniputting guy personally

[runic hinge]

Yes

[balmy condor]

You okay?

[storm belfry]

[balmy condor]

Doing keys willingly is like saying you solo queue league

Statements only said by the truly deranged

[polar cape]

i tink its fine with a squad, although puguing keys is prob solo queue league illness

[lyric crater]

when blzzard over buff rogue then u see alot of them for a bit what what when they over buff ret pallys all u saw was pallys for weeks

[void mesa]

Pugging m+ as sin is fine

You never get to do dungeons cuz no one invites you

[spice spire]

Call me deranged

[royal lantern]

hi deranged

[gusty mirage]

no

not even remotely

[mental plume]

anyone know if magmorax does boss damage or world damage for our dr poison?

[balmy condor]

Mostly boss damage

Idk if anything is world damage actually

[gusty mirage]

on mag?

[frozen iris]

Ain’t that the truth. Just pugged my way to 2500. Would not recommend.

[gusty mirage]

I think its 100%

ye 100%

[mental plume]

ok cheers guys 🙂

[void mesa]

I admire the resilience of pugging all the way on such a spec o.o

[frozen iris]

I enjoyed doing it once I was in the dungeon. I like IC at least it’s fun when the tank decides to do a huge pull and stack them. But like most of the gripes of us sin rogues, when ic is down and they pull another pack it feels bad. Also feels bad when they decide to pull another pack 5 sec after I use IC….

[vapid sierra]

so for zskarn

what do you guys do with adds

soimeone tried telling me i was bottom dps on adds, i said yeah kinda how my spec works

i try and 3/4 cp one or two of them and maybe envonem if theyre grouped

[royal lantern]

bruh

most melee dont really touch them

[vapid sierra]

what do you guys do

they wer elike 7/8% of my overall

[royal lantern]

you tell the ranged dps to stop drolling on the keyboard and actually targetswap when a targetswap is called

[spice spire]

I rupture them and fok when there’s two in the realm of the boss

[royal lantern]

^ thats it

you did all you can and should do

[balmy condor]

You ignore them

You MAYBE rupture snipe one of them

MAYBE

[royal lantern]

99% of the time when there is a "nobody is swapping too the adds" complaint

its the ranged dps not swapping

[vapid sierra]

the tank dmed me i ahve noa dd damage like bruh

my guild doesnt know hjow rogue works

[balmy condor]

Tell the tank to eat shit

[royal lantern]

tell the tank to use his 1 braincell he has as a tank player

and check where the zark adds are standing

INSIDE FIRE

[vapid sierra]

i asked him where i was on boss damage after

how do i check where i actually was?

do i exlcude player deaths on wcl

[royal lantern]

logs?

[vapid sierra]

and then ewlect zskarn as target?

[royal lantern]

and i mean, details aswell

[vapid sierra]

i was 5th before wipes

[royal lantern]

can just check dmg done to zskarn and the adds there

[vapid sierra]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2dz6agPx3Nr4ZcMp/#fight=6&type=deaths&death=4

how would i filter it?

im on enoucters, have zskarn selected

should i just put like 6/7 ignore after player deaths?

[balmy condor]

Damage done, zskarn

[vapid sierra]

but after half the raid is dead tho it doesnt reallym atter

sicne im alwayus last alive 99% apercent of the time

[royal lantern]

filter with 3 deaths

cus 3deaths=wipe on most fights

[balmy condor]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2dz6agPx3Nr4ZcMp/#type=damage-done&boss=2689&difficulty=5&wipes=1&target=41

Just this

And then whatever

[royal lantern]

and yeha

you are high up

[vapid sierra]

after a month and a bit break missing a bit of gear

[royal lantern]

the best "not protagonist class thanks for shitvoker" in your raid

cus you wont reach lock/uh that get simped for anyway

[vapid sierra]

what about pally

they love externals no?>

iu dont think they were getting pi tho

so its about equal

especialyl since we only have one aug

[vapid sierra]

wdym?

[royal lantern]

but they wont get Pi/dont have a shitvoker standing next to them all the time that gives them 10000000000000mainstat

[royal lantern]

you will by default never be in the top4 with a shitvoker and Pi receivers by default

they are the protagonist

not you

[vapid sierra]

i see

[royal lantern]

[vapid sierra]

protagonist = mc in your terms?

[balmy condor]

Brother

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/protagonist

[vapid sierra]

i know what it means

protagonist = good guy antangonist = bad ghuy

i mean it could be protagnist = mc and antagonist = person who opposes mc

regardless of right or wrgon

[royal lantern]

nah, protagonist cus THEY are the people you play around and receive all the attention

aka mage/warlock

that get feed 30000000externals

and are above everyone else by default cus of it (very fun state of the game btw, never beeing able to be close to the chose one's ever 🙂 )

[balmy condor]

That’s literally not the definition and I just linked it to you

You are not this dumb

Please

Warlocks are still getting too much damage from augs I think tho aren’t they

[royal lantern]

idk

delete aug

[vapid sierra]

my dearest apologises

[royal lantern]

all i say

[vapid sierra]

i have failed you by acting stupid

[royal lantern]

delete that shit idea, never do it again

[vapid sierra]

its stupid

i agree weith you

[balmy condor]

Augs fine

Just had to attribute properly to begin with

[royal lantern]

no

its not

[balmy condor]

Okay then it’s not I guess

Good talk

[royal lantern]

games with better teams didnt manage to get things like aug in a state where its not gonna be either oppresive and a must pick or never worth to pick

and blizz sure as hell never will be

[vapid sierra]

what are you guysses thoguhts on externals

like pi

and shit

didnt blizz say they wanted to nerf externals or remove them at the beginning of df

and thats why they changed pi?

[royal lantern]

changed what with pi?

[vapid sierra]

am i tripping

or didnt they release something about them wanting to remove externals or nerf them

[royal lantern]

they litearlly told people "your problem, fuck you" and thats it when everyone asked about Pi

[vapid sierra]

since they thought they were bad for class heaolth

[gusty mirage]

no?

[vapid sierra]

ah

remembering wrong

[royal lantern]

they doubled down on Pi by making it a talent that is so central in your class tree AND locking other important talents behind it AND put twinsuns in the class tree in a spot where its a 100% free pick

[balmy condor]

PI is an issue cause it warps the power of a dps spec like crazy

Shadow + good haste spec is instantly just bonkers

Versus anything else

Just like in m+ now

[royal lantern]

blizz opinion on Pi is "community problem, suck it up losers, we dont care"

meanwhile every single priest i know hates Pi

[vapid sierra]

could sin ever end up beign a class that receives externals like pi and stuff? or is that like near impossible because of current class design

like how much would they need to change for us to start liking externals

[balmy condor]

Depends how they rework it in 10.2

[vapid sierra]

i was thinking that

but it would need to be a big rework

or a big new talent

[balmy condor]

It’s hard tho with capped gcd

[vapid sierra]

oh yeahhh

its a 1 sec hard cap no?

[royal lantern]

SOMETHING SOMETHING HASTE STACK PI EXSANG

[balmy condor]

Yep

[pure moth]

/guit

[royal lantern]

tbf, "x guildmate doesnt know rogue" is a normal thing

not something ou gquit over

[balmy condor]

But like compare sin to aff lock right? They have dots that speed up, we have dots that speed up

But they also get cast speed

[royal lantern]

if you ask a random guildmate, they will tell you cloak is a full immunity

[balmy condor]

And we don’t

So it’s just we’re already fighting for it from behind

[vapid sierra]

i mean can we hadnle having a lower gcd during lust and shit without burning thru our energy

i mean we have tea

but dont factor in tea

[royal lantern]

would also result in more energy

[vapid sierra]

since we need it for after when we're not regenning as quick

[royal lantern]

[vapid sierra]

yeah but would it balance out

would we know?

[balmy condor]

Not to an extent that would make pi good

[vapid sierra]

not even pi

just like lust

[misty holly]

Rogue needs to have gcd reduced from haste same as other classes. Let us go down to 0.75 before capping.

[spice surge]

Nah

[balmy condor]

Lust is good

[royal lantern]

hero is better

[vapid sierra]

so we would burn thru our energy? (without using tea since if we use tea we wouldnt have it for after and it would be shit)

[balmy condor]

Yep

[misty holly]

Before the energy glut of the last 2 expansions, our faster energy regen from haste was similar to other classes getting gcd reduced. Buf if rogues are going to be energy capped anyways in so many situations then we need that GCD bump.

[gusty mirage]

no we don't

why does everyone want a 70 apm spec

[spice surge]

Seems like theres another way to solve that problem without making the gcd lower

[balmy condor]

I mean if you ask me, sin is going to be slower

[royal lantern]

better idea: actually listen to the players that have to use it, and make Pi a personal instead of an external, cus holy shit every single priest player hates the 24/7 pi whispers and arguments all the time

[balmy condor]

After 10.2

Not faster

So you’d run out of energy more

[misty holly]

I don't. I much prefer the playstyle back from like legion era when things were slower. But we won't scale properly if we are alerady energy capped from the X.0 patch. It has never been like this before in the history of wow.

[vapid sierra]

wait what

why

oh no

[misty holly]

and we're seeing the consequences with rogue falling off as gear improves now

[vapid sierra]

rogue isnt falling off

huh

[gusty mirage]

it's not?

[royal lantern]

we fall off cus we are undertuned and others are vastly overtuned

lol

[balmy condor]

Because it’s unsustainable for it to be this fast

[royal lantern]

its not "x stat is why fall off"

[balmy condor]

You could lose a full 15-20% of your envenom casts

And envenoms uptime would be the same

Unchanged at like 94%

Where tf you trying to go with the spec

It’s near gcd capped

And all the moderate uptimes of the past are capped out at 100%

There’s legit nothing left for the spec

[vapid sierra]

nothing left apm and energy wise?

[balmy condor]

Just everywhere

There’s no elaborate planning uptime left, no envenom left, no apm left

[vapid sierra]

so weve maxed out the specs potentional both gameplay wise and design wise

in terms of spec direction?

for there to be other changes that would affect gameplay in a noticeble manner we would need to rehaul alot>

[gaunt moat]

No, we can still become a support spec like god intended

[misty holly]

I just don't want to be energy capped whenever any kind of buff happens. Heroism: energy capped for 40 seconds - deathmark: energy capped for 20 seconds - thistle tea: immediate energy cap. Even spending bonespike charges feels painful half the time because I know Im going to overcap during that gcd since it only cost 10 energy. ugh.

[vapid sierra]

support

wait its notter

hi notter

[vapid sierra]

like you want dm to give you max energy for 20 seconds?

nah

[balmy condor]

Well thats the issue right? The current design (the design from around cata/mop), was designed for a spec that was much slower. The game has since moved on, and Assassination has sped up to accommodate the change in speed. But at some point it just can’t go any faster right? Envenom used to be like 40-60% uptime, now it’s 100%, we need IC for dots in m+

Gotta change some core gameplay of the spec

[vapid sierra]

how slow was the game back then?

was it that much slower?

and how did sin rogue aoe back in those days

[balmy condor]

Sin was about 40 apm

[balmy condor]

Crimson tempest and manual multidotting

[spice surge]

And aoe felt nice because you were gcd capped, compared to st not being gcd capped

So it felt different doing aoe than ST

[vapid sierra]

what would be some solutions?

especially aoe wise

[balmy condor]

But like, assassination ripping at the seams because the speed means that the spec for sure ain’t speeding up in 10.2

Cause they aren’t gonna overhaul it that much

[vestal wren]

will be interesting to see what changes

[misty holly]

taking feint and crimson vial off the gcd would help to give an energy dump without increasing dps, but people seem to think that would be op so eh. Feint pisses me off so much how often I miss it due to gcd so it's a wishlist thing lol.

[vapid sierra]

definite aoe changes, something to exsang (i hope) remove 3 pointers (only 3 pointer i like is zoldyck) and something to kb

is what im expecting

[gaunt moat]

It was slow enough that you timed your attacks instead of spamming them.
AKA energy pooling

[balmy condor]

All safe bets

[vapid sierra]

i want them to keep 3 point zoldyck its the only one that makes sense

but it isnt that good

[gaunt moat]

3 points are the one thing we know is gone for sure

[gusty mirage]

[misty holly]

25%/ 50% two points easy.

[gusty mirage]

"I want 3pters removed, EXCEPT ZOLDYCK. That we don't put 3 points into anyway"

[balmy condor]

Good one

[royal lantern]

well, first of all, would help if rupture would actually do dmg

instead of beeing a energy generation tool

[vapid sierra]

i mean we can

it is definite loss currently but it can be changed and buffed to be worth while on prog kills

[balmy condor]

What

We take 2 points

It’s already the second best non-capstone talent we have

The first being shrouded

And it’s pretty close

How much better do you want it to be

Any stronger and it’s just perma-take required

[vapid sierra]

yeah and i like how 3 is an option

i thought it wasnt worthwhile really taking

[balmy condor]

What wasn’t worth

3rd point

Or zold in general

[void mesa]

Isnt the only reason we dont take the 3rd point zold just cuz of pathing/other reqs to get DTB anyways?

[vapid sierra]

3rd

zold we take 2/3 now

[balmy condor]

We played it on rashok

[vapid sierra]

i like how 3/3 is an option for execute on prog

[gaunt moat]

i also used it on echo

[balmy condor]

Oh true

[void mesa]

What do you drop to get 3/3? curiosity

[vapid sierra]

why isnt it worthwhile on most prog kill;s?

[balmy condor]

Echo too

[balmy condor]

Shrouded

[void mesa]

Iiiiinteresting

[balmy condor]

I mean what else is there

[void mesa]

Not much, I just never really considered it

[balmy condor]

You’re not gonna drop dtb

[vapid sierra]

wait we take dtb?

[balmy condor]

And you’re not dropping sepsis

And that’s it

[void mesa]

Since I never got into a situation like that to think about it in the first place

[vapid sierra]

ive been taking ap this whole time

[void mesa]

Yeah, its logical

[balmy condor]

Bro what

[gusty mirage]

[vapid sierra]

(im joking)

[void mesa]

I enjoy learning about theory of sin while being a scrub alright

(but at least I dont take AP) (often)

[royal lantern]

i never took ap since it exists

cus its garbage

[gusty mirage]

not even on council?