Leech 
#assassination
blazing jewel
spice surge
Can obv feint the roars if you are low but its still kinda oof
spice surge
Old ranks are going to be frozen right? 
spice surge
blazing jewel
spice surge
Surely my vault next week isnt another 6 tokens
blazing jewel
A singular crumb in the vault please
gusty mirage
Surely my vault next week isnt another 6 tokens
but think of the half sparks
that you can use to craft nothing
gusty mirage
yeah no shit
people tend to be when there's giga rot damage
and they're getting no heals
what a wild concept
keen spruce
maybe if my slice and dice wasn't the highest healing i recieved for 8 seconds
keen spruce
o yeah probably leech
drifting cloud
if the soak targets you probably a good time to cloak
other than that not much you can do
gusty mirage
yeah
plus cloak has little value outside of that
not like it clears anything
might as well save yourself the big chunk
can cloak knockback too
spice surge
If you get the circles (especially the meteor one) its good to have cloak
spice surge
What can you cloak the knockback
gusty mirage
yeah
spice surge
Even though it does phys damage? 
gusty mirage
skill issue
earnest remnant
2 weeks ago
gusty mirage
idk
might only be cloakable on normal/heroic
I haven't raided mythic in 2 weeks
stop yelling at me
blazing jewel
Stealthi get his legs I’ll get the arms
gusty mirage
plus the man had like 0 hours of sleep
earnest remnant
don't tell me it wasn't scuffed
gusty mirage
it was not a great time for him
blazing jewel
That double step build goes crazy on magmorax huh
gusty mirage
he plays sub
what double step build
can't take double step
costs damage
unlucky
spice surge
You def can, you just get fucked in the opener like 2% of the time
blazing jewel
The one where you have a .000001% chance to get a bad outcome in the opener
But people still don’t play it
gusty mirage
or hear me out
they just give sub a charge of step baseline
so it has 2 steps
like it had forever
blazing jewel
Step this
gusty mirage
we could also get silly
spice surge
It sims like 8 dps lower massive dps loss
spice surge
But ye it should be baseline, im hopeful for realz changes 
earnest remnant
nah im good ty
gusty mirage
we'll keep it rolling until our hearts bleed
blazing jewel
I think I’ve had multiple raid nights of nelth and mag prog where I played double step and always got find weakness in the opener
gusty mirage
no grapple hook or acro tho
spice surge
Aintnoway youre catching me in outlaw spec
gusty mirage
while you guys play outlaw
how bold of you to think I'll be playing at all
I yearn for the mines
its minecraft time
spice surge
Only reason to spec outlaw is to get the +10% haste for a bug abusing assa opener 
gusty mirage
Don’t they have a lot more things now
don't make me bring that guy back who brought up his heroic p1 uhdk damage when you guys were talking about mythic sark p1 rogue damage differences
spice surge
Although its not nearly as relevant now that exsang is dead
blazing jewel
don't make me bring that guy back who brought up his heroic p1 uhdk damage when ...
Bro what I was talking about Minecraft
blazing jewel
gusty mirage
"loool assa rogues talking about sark p1 damage, so glad I rerolled"
"links heroic p1 damage on an uhdk"
woeful meteor
Only reason to spec outlaw is to get the +10% haste for a bug abusing assa opene...
Pls dont tell me that actually work's
spice surge
blazing jewel
Spill eleem
woeful meteor
parsing strats for reclear acquired
gusty mirage
imagine doing that for +10% haste
blazing jewel
Rn
woeful meteor
blazing jewel
Is it adrenaline rush and then swap specs
gusty mirage
lmao please try it guys
blazing jewel
blazing jewel
I can’t wait for the prepull
gusty mirage
cause a boomkin pulled early
blazing jewel
It’s going to be like the sub swap sets in shadowlands all over again
spice surge
Which is why its not a big deal anymore now that exsang is dead
blazing jewel
cause you're confused as fuck
Maybe now we can beat that uh dk in p1 damage
gusty mirage
it wasn't a big deal before we knew exsang was dead anyway
the fucking opener took like 8 globals
lmao
woeful meteor
I'm so doing that on sark tomorrow
spice surge
Well ye but you have it up until the exsang
woeful meteor
if they fuck my opener I run it down
blazing jewel
I need to set up meme weakauras for outlaw
blazing jewel
Going to have a mental breaks down without funny noises while playing that
spice surge
The buff is 20s oxi
gusty mirage
how
spice surge
Spec 2 points into it
gusty mirage
jesus
woeful meteor
oxi never did that
gusty mirage
you europeans need other hobbies
woeful meteor
he's on the starter build
gusty mirage
buncha cursed fucks yall are
actually
lemme log in and show you my outlaw talents
lemme pause my wowhead shit
for the funnies
@spice surge
spice surge
Respectable outlaw tree
gusty mirage
oh I accidentally rightclicked something
sorry 5 available points
I think I did it to send a friend a build in the first month
elusiveness btw
that's how old this was
it was from before they moved cheat
gaunt moat
Yeah, i had to dig deep into logs to show i didn't get healed
because they said "if you're a rogue and you die you're bad"
thick sail
How good is Lethal Dose
storm belfry
How are you whispyr
brazen zodiac
pog
balmy condor
But should be good now
We get to spend like 24 bil meso in maplestory today
Hitting some pog upgrades
Might toss the stream up and stuff
You know the vibe
So it’s a good day
gaunt moat
you have only 2 healers or something?
how is it even possible for healers to not heal ambiently for 5 seconds
not even talking about healing enough to save you, just like, to show them on the healing
drifting cloud
are those logs you being the target of group soak or just the usual dmg?
keen spruce
most of them are me dropping a puddle
i think the one where only the boomkin healed me i was running out for something i don't member
gaunt moat
I think all healers had a secret meeting where they decided to not heal rogue
i was also told
use cloak 
keen spruce
like if it's agreed that i will not receive any heals
drifting cloud
I mean just lack of accountability
keen spruce
then i'll press buttons
but like it's 1m into the fight
and i have like 8 stacks
if u tell me i have to cloak
that early on low stacks
gaunt moat
Did you take elusivness like i recommended shmeeps?
drifting cloud
but its kinda common on magmorax I guess, people saw rwf 5shot the boss and they think its free
keen spruce
only way to live the last 1/3 of the fight
gaunt moat
did it help?
keen spruce
i've been running it the whole time
so i imagine it does
cuz if i forget to feint anything i die instantly
after like the 3 min mark
gaunt moat
can also evasion to reduce damage don't forget
keen spruce
o i didn't even read that part
i mean you can have feint up for every mechanic basically
gaunt moat
gaunt moat
Basically I think you should use evasion if you get targeted with the puddle
frozen iris
How many sparks should we have at the moment? 4?
blazing jewel
but its kinda common on magmorax I guess, people saw rwf 5shot the boss and they...
was actually a pretty tight dps check for a lot of guilds going into it when people werent max gear
gaunt moat
We were geared and killed it 0.3s into enrage
drifting cloud
was actually a pretty tight dps check for a lot of guilds going into it when peo...
not that much different than like week2 rashok
pure moth
How many sparks should we have at the moment? 4?
5 plus additional ones if you took tokens at vault
blazing jewel
I remember vodka had a really close check and they are blasters
balmy condor
<a:waitaminute:858477515051630624>
It’s a big number 
storm belfry
Are you streaming that
keen spruce
not that much different than like week2 rashok
it's the same dps check as rashok
you just have way more raid uptime
or should
still about 1.7m
gaunt moat
DPS checks seem really tight this tier
blazing jewel
soooo many guilds got stuck for a while on rashok
keen spruce
can you check average stack on magmorax on wcl?
stacks
cuz i'm lookin at damage taken for all of our wipes
gaunt moat
stacks of what, puddle soak?
gaunt moat
can check debuffs
keen spruce
than other people
gaunt moat
link the log
gaunt moat
keen spruce
oh that pull they sacrificed me
gaunt moat
wtf is that lol
balmy condor
This is your sign to stop being such a fucking simp cuck for your guild and let them do some mechanics for once in their pathetic existence
drifting cloud
should have saved cloak skill issue
keen spruce
you still get stacks through cloak apparently
or it ran out
or something
idk
i cloaked when i ran out tho
blazing jewel
you gain stacks with cloak up
spice surge
You still get stacks
night delta
you keep your stacks
wack but fair enough
drifting cloud
regardless dont think your tanks should be in the middle of that list
think our tanks go to like 35 stacks from first 3? soaks
or smth
keen spruce
well one tank was like 45 min late
so he would me much higher
cuz we were just pulling with 19 for the first like 1/3 of our pulls
drifting cloud
yeah but even on wipes that arent 5min
blazing jewel
my guilds mag kill was a disaster
had 2 dcs
brought in two unprepared people and killed 2 pulls later
agile osprey
I definitely kill Rashock this week
gaunt moat
@keen spruce why did you make me look at this. now i got pissed off for no reason.
This Demon hunter never fucking does any mechanics. it's annoying.
agile osprey
ionic kelp
this is the 6min cd rotation right? vanish -> gar -> sepsis -> dm -> shiv + tea -> er -> env -> gar
versed mica
Where your rupt at
ionic kelp
oh maybe after the vanish garrote if rupture needs to be renewed at that point
woeful meteor
you hold vanish again at 6 min
keen spruce
idk how many 6m fights don't have you using vanish earlier and desyncing from deathmark
ionic kelp
ya wasnt sure about that, just asking incase
woeful meteor
there isn't this tier
keen spruce
ig rashock
woeful meteor
Rashok, Sark and Echo last over 6 on a usual first kill in mythic but for Sark and Echo Timers are kinda screwed cause of mechanics
keen spruce
yeah last 2 bosses you're using vanish at different times
so there is no big line up at 6m
blazing jewel
if you do the common strat the kill time on sark sucks
have like 20s to kill the boss at the end will all your cds up
drifting cloud
and big value of the great 4p
blazing jewel
yea lol
woeful meteor
next season our 4p will be great surely
spice surge
Concentrate more damage into deathmark so the augs always want to buff us for their breath
tall atlas
Like the only thing to my understanding you can do is make sure you save vanish garrotte and shivs for dm
Or am I missing something
tall atlas
Yeah that too
But normally you have sepsis up like 30s before
So you use those two to get you to the vanish
Then you send?
crimson snow
hmm is fragment still oversimming? I have it 447, I feel like it might compensate, idk
crimson snow
meh.. yeah I was hoping that changed
keen spruce
it's not the most heinous thing in the world at 447, but there's like 5 trinkets that vastly outclass it
gaunt moat
It's also obnoxious to use at 3m cd
gaunt moat
keen spruce
but it get's really cringe on fights where you hold DM to 5m
gaunt moat
I just hate trying to sync like 3 things while i'm holding them for multiple minutes
i just wanna use em' 
Thistle Tea?
I DOWN ALL 3 STACKS IN ONE GULP
royal lantern
found the brit
keen spruce
gaunt moat
I'm way eastern than that
tall atlas
but it get's really cringe on fights where you hold DM to 5m
When would you do this
gusty mirage
when you wouldn't get another cast anyway
drifting cloud
rashok and mag only I guess
gusty mirage
yeah
keen spruce
if you save cloak for the 6m slam on rashok and you're killin him at enrage
u can send on CD and squeeze one mroe in there at 6m
or part of one
drifting cloud
yeah wont happen on farm 😛
and depending how broken augvokers going to look funny on alot of bosses
people in my guild were saying we might have to move sark lust to p3 or well probably hit auto phase ..
teal iris
<@119274470241206273> why did you make me look at this. now i got pissed off for...
rare frost mage that actually does mechanics 
keen spruce
me and my raid lead
"shmeep you're so squishy"
a story in 2 parts
okay 3 parts
keen spruce
that was the only pull he beat me on
idk what happened
he just popped off on our 2%
blazing jewel
keen spruce
we're not talkin about that okay
we're talkin about the enh shaman griefing his puddles
and doin tank damage
keen spruce
somber sparrow
the patch notes make me laugh
almost every class has paragraphs of updates. rogues have 4 lines... and zero are in assassination. I think they are looking at data of LFR or something
"developers notes - We are lowering the effectiveness of all Primordial Stones that deal damage by 40% to increase gearing options for players. We are compensating specific specializations that are commonly using the Onyx Annulet ring for this damage loss."
Except all assassination rogues that use the annulet, we will assume they'll find other ways to make up for the loss.
blazing jewel
????
woeful meteor
the way you make up for the less off annulet is getting better gear
blazing jewel
sin already replaces it
woeful meteor
it isnt bis in its current state
keen spruce
we got aura buffed and annulet became very mid like 3 weeks ago
blazing jewel
a spark ring was like 500dps over annulet for me
tacit otter
almost every class has paragraphs of updates. rogues have 4 lines... and zero ar...
it was announced a few times now that the changes for rogue are getting delayed. that might explain the lack of patchnotes for rogue
idle inlet
"developers notes - We are lowering the effectiveness of all Primordial Stones t...
If you use annulet you are greifing or undergeared either way blizzard doesn't balance the game around people in both categories
God how long till people stop coming into chat complaining about a ring that we don't use anymore getting nerfed.
keen spruce
it has been this way
idle inlet
I'm over it
keen spruce
since the dawn of time
drifting cloud
If you use annulet you are greifing or undergeared either way blizzard doesn't b...
lol
big brain statement for sure, yeah its not bis
keen spruce
I thikn i originally joined in legion
drifting cloud
but half the logs still use it
drifting cloud
because were not at unlimited sparks yet
gusty mirage
now i ask unique stupid questions so when i get flamed at least i'm original
I would never flame you
drifting cloud
🧾
drifting cloud
oxi flames me more than that in a span of 3days
drifting cloud
he mistypes it so you cant search
keen spruce
blazing jewel
somber sparrow
God how long till people stop coming into chat complaining about a ring that we ...
to be fair I thought we were replacing the ring when the patch came out not before
idle inlet
to be fair I thought we were replacing the ring when the patch came out not befo...
It's dependent on your gear right now. Low ilvl makes it better but you do replace it even without the changes which is mentioned in the pins. always check the pins
somber sparrow
It's dependent on your gear right now. Low ilvl makes it better but you do repla...
do you know if raidbots is accurate when it comes to simming the annulet vs other rings? This compares two rings I have access to (and an alternate secondary type for the crafted ring) according to the most recent build. I'm only 437 ilvl so i don't have access to anything above 441 realistically unless the underrot ring shows up in my vault for mythic+. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8k11SqHS4JLzT9wiZQtfzr
haste/mastery crafted seems to be the closest, but still says a dps loss.
balmy condor
If you had another 5 ilvl it wouldn’t be a loss
arctic current
Does OCE become BiS next week at 447ilvl?
idle inlet
do you know if raidbots is accurate when it comes to simming the annulet vs othe...
It is accurate I didn't replace the ring till I got my 441 ring and a crafted 447 so you need good rings to replace it but you do replace it eventually
balmy condor
do you know if raidbots is accurate when it comes to simming the annulet vs othe...
Also why are you simming 437 rings
Kinda weird
idle inlet
Some people are casuals whispyr we have to tolerate them cuz they pay for the game for us
Even if they are filthy disgusting casuals
somber sparrow
Also why are you simming 437 rings
i'm just simming what i have realistic access to
i have yet to even get enough aspect crests to make 447 items
balmy condor
i'm just simming what i have realistic access to
You can’t run +16’s?
somber sparrow
i'm assassination, i get almost auto declined
but i am at 2200 rating this season so far
idle inlet
Bro just play sub it's so easy in m+ I play that shit way wrong don't optimize my play at all and I get ez 110k overall which is more than enough for a 16
balmy condor
Not cause you play Assassination
But yeh if you just crafted it at 447
It would beat it already
If you had more ilvl, the 437 would beat it as well
Realistically it’s an easy replacement unless you’re giga stacked on vers for some reason
idle inlet
If you had more ilvl, the 437 would beat it as well
Speaking of that I'm so confused why getting more of other gear makes the stat rings better. Wouldn't make secondaries from your other gear cause secondaries from rings to have diminishing returns therefore making your annulet better?
balmy condor
Speaking of that I'm so confused why getting more of other gear makes the stat r...
If you do 100 damage and stats would give you 10%, they would give you 10 damage
If the ring does 10 damage all the time
Now you get ilvl and do 107 damage
So stats are 10.7
And the ring is still 10
drifting cloud
hmm with 2 more tiers in xpac I guess were gonna get somewhat deep into the drs
gray hazel
Is it possible to sim for the annut nerfs already? Or have to wait for Tuesday?
idle inlet
I'm to dumb to understand lol I read your explanation and it didn't compute
drifting cloud
Is it possible to sim for the annut nerfs already? Or have to wait for Tuesday?
expert mode, ptr=1
vapid sierra
Does 10.5 come out Tuesday
gray hazel
expert mode, ptr=1
Thanks! Do I just put that at the top of the sim? Or is there already a line for it?
balmy condor
I'm to dumb to understand lol I read your explanation and it didn't compute
Proc damage is constant, stats scale with your character
Annulet will do X damage
Regardless of if you’re 447 item level
Or 50
idle inlet
Proc damage is constant, stats scale with your character
Oh wait stats scale with agi and annulet doesn't
drifting cloud
Thanks! Do I just put that at the top of the sim? Or is there already a line for...
everything else as youd normally do it
balmy condor
Or alternatively
If you don’t want to ptr=1
Simply unselect your annulet
Because it’s gonna be dogshit
idle inlet
Lol
balmy condor
It was losing to 410 world quests rings for me
It’s like
Actually just not worth considering
idle inlet
Do stats have diminishing returns if you get like a mix of all 4 or do they only diminish in value when you build just 1 or 2?
idle inlet
Yeah but doesn't getting a lot of crit improve haste cuz more haste means you can take advantage of more crits and so on with the other stats?
idle inlet
Yeah but what I'm asking is like if I kept getting more and more of all the stats equally would my dps climb at the same rate I got the stats or would it eventually slow down and not grow at the same speed?
gray hazel
Thanks a lot gents!
balmy condor
Yeah but what I'm asking is like if I kept getting more and more of all the stat...
I don’t understand the question
If you get all stats equally you’re building more bad stats like vers at the cost of good stats like crit
If you build nothing but crit your other stats will skyrocket in value
idle inlet
Im talking about a hypothetical world where you could get infinite stats (which I know is pointless) would eventually having infinite stats stop increasing your dps as much
balmy condor
If you have infinite stats they will dr and cap at 126%
idle inlet
Also in my hypothetical world they don't do that and crits can become triple crits and quadruple crits and so on as you get a higher rating for it lol. I just like math I guess.
balmy condor
If the game didn’t work how the game worked, then you would continue getting more damage for your stats, sure
idle inlet
It was a sort of thought experiment to try and understand if you built stats at a perfect ratio would they lose value or not which it seems like the answer is no
balmy condor
Yeah I mean your thought experiment removes all the barriers that causes them to lose value
supple snow
And I woke up to this
balmy condor
That’s why I’m confused
Cause I’m saying they lose value when you build enough of it
And you’re going “yeah but if they didn’t lose value, then they wouldn’t lose value”
And I’m sitting here like yep that checks out
idle inlet
I do most of my theory crafting while at work and I'm not super focused on it XD
I got it in my head for some reason that crit and the other stats would lose value even if the dr wasn't in place but they don't actually lose value they just lose relative value to the other stats
balmy condor
Yeh
idle inlet
Yeah I forgot that relative value going down doesn't change the actual value
Like 5 still 5 even if other numbers become 10
neat rain
What trinkets should I farm for if they didn't drop from raid?
pseudo hamlet
Dice from FH is very good.
neat rain
Just picked that up I just need something to replace my drogbar trinket now
vapid sierra
Sim droptimizer
neat rain
Took about 7 freeholds but well you know
vapid sierra
I wouldn’t put too much pressure on it tho. Assuming you raid you should get one of the three if you can fullclear heroic + normal (normal lower ilvl tho)
- vault
neat rain
I just wanna gear up as much as possible before raid next week
vapid sierra
Is it one of your first raids weeks? Or just one of the first on the rogue?
The raid trinkets are so much better than the others I wouldn’t stress it if you have dice already
But sim drotimizer m+ to see what your next best option is
vapid sierra
F
clever sapphire
Bracken is one od the better dungeons, i dont see the problem there
analog mica
getting double tapped on FH boss 1 or the shit tier trash with shields and knockup in VP is worse
blazing jewel
Evasion works on those shots 
neat rain
Brakenhide isn't fun for melee you got dogs up close tons of enemies that deal AoE keeping you out of the action it's just annoying
spice surge
Its fun even as melee, by far the best dungeon this season
All of the melee aoe stuff is 4-5 yards too so you can outrange it
And/or enrage dispel depending on which mechanic you are refering to
clever sapphire
Bracken is one of the best dungeons imo. Big packs, not some shitty 3-5 enemies per pull like in VP
Only boss i dislike is the last one because of the totem
Not sure which dogs, i played them like once and have skipped them ever since
Nobody plays the dogs as far as i know
analog mica
I’ll take brack over shit like Halls everyday
ebon notch
Only boss i dislike is the last one because of the totem
Beacon time
clever sapphire
Beacon time
Suuuure, for people with a bacon
brazen lagoon
Wtf, just read patchnote
So they up Sub again?
Buffing Outlaw seems fair. But dont think Sub need a buff
drifting cloud
its less than 1% buff to offset annulet
vestal wren
tl;dr of 10.1.5 changes:
- eranog + annulet heavily nerfed (annulet will get replaced 100%)
- outlaw/sub buffs for compensation
!sheet has a 10.1.5 section with sims for it
brazen lagoon
Yup, but meh. Many players replaced their Annulet
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
drifting cloud
no they didnt, its bis for outlaw and sub
vestal wren
the compensation is a bit higher than the "loss" from annulet
this is why sub/outlaw are a bit higher
you can compare pre and post numbers if you look at the other tabs
spice surge
Possibly for aoe yes, but not for singletarget
spice surge
Then you simmed it incorrectly
brazen lagoon
Probably but No
brazen lagoon
Yup,
vestal wren
you can sim for 10.1.5 by putting in ptr=1 in expert mode
brazen lagoon
Yup im happy for Outlaw
vestal wren
but the difference is low enough to likely keep subtlety dominant
gusty mirage
outlaw is now a bit more competitive
“A bit”
vestal wren
assassination is sadly not that popular even atm
brazen lagoon
If the buffs negate the nerf.. yup Sub is in a good spot
brazen lagoon
5k :0
gusty mirage
That’s a little more than a bit
vestal wren
depends on who you compare it to
spice surge
I mean rogue is still going to be mid at best in raid
vestal wren
avoker iirc is from first estimates 180k or more
spice surge
Ye getting +5k is nice, but when youre like 15k behind first place it doesnt tip the scales that much
vestal wren
and there is quite a list around or above rogue numbers
also its not obviouse how good the profiles are
brazen lagoon
So Sub rogue is now blasting all contents
gusty mirage
It already was wdym now
brazen lagoon
Nope, but on the Sheet you see the Rankings in terms of Overall
Didnt expect to see all Sub builds ahead
gusty mirage
Sub had builds ahead of assassination before the annulet compensation buff
vestal wren
subtlety is ahead due to some bugs
just to keep that in mind
(first pin in #subtlety )
brazen lagoon
Yup, but i dont understand why they keep Assa in this state
spice surge
Keep in mind that all 3 rogue specs are either dead on middle of the pack or lower for pretty much all bosses (besides assault)
And we are awful at the last boss
vestal wren
sub is quite popular in m+, so 10.1.5 will allow sub to potentially keep that position
(assuming avoker isn't op)
gusty mirage
They’re not “keeping assassination” in any state. Blizzard acknowledged that rogue changes are coming in 10.2
vestal wren
(because if, you might stack PI + PI target + avoker)
gusty mirage
Not to mention assassination has gotten more tweaks this patch than outlaw and sub
So I’m not sure where people are getting that idea from
brazen lagoon
I hope they Will do it. For real
I thought some changes would come before 10.2 but no
gusty mirage
Yeah they literally just acknowledged that in an interview with Ion
analog mica
when snd passive talent or removed
brazen lagoon
Lets hope for the best and keep shining as part of the off meta gang
blazing jewel
If sin post aura buff was how it released this tier
Sin would have been meta
I don’t think people cared to swap during farm so nobody plays it still
brazen lagoon
The Aura buff gave me some cool overalls (110-120k) in M+
You may be right
blazing jewel
I thought you were talking about raid
brazen lagoon
Talking about both
tight fox
you can sim for 10.1.5 by putting in `ptr=1` in expert mode
I misread this as gf=1 
vestal wren
lol
analog mica
(I still don’t know what aura buff people are talking about)
blazing jewel
Sin got 4%? A few weeks back
storm belfry
analog mica
I only been playing outlaw so I haven’t been keeping up
gusty mirage
Yes it was 4%
analog mica
And even then like 2hrs a week
gusty mirage
And sepsis got hotfixed to work with mastery
tight fox
for the rogue update what are people generally hoping for? I'm rolling away from mage until 11.0 or perhaps later to either rogue or monk albeit monks dmg profile doesnt suit me it doesnt have a good ST build options which feels bad whereas rogue has 3 specs to pick from
I know for sin its a niche where they do well but I wouldnt know more about what rogues would want from said update because I havent played it or kept an eye on the disc
gusty mirage
And the combined changes bumped assassination up like 4-5k dps
gusty mirage
And that’s with exsang bug being discovered
tight fox
No more SnD maintenance would be based
cries in fire mage buff maintenance
blazing jewel
for the rogue update what are people generally hoping for? I'm rolling away from...
If you search when realz was talking in the spec channels the majority of concerns were brought up
Mostly in sin and outlaw so far
tight fox
ty ill look that up
clever sapphire
No more SnD maintenance would be based
You are playing assa, what snd maintenance?
blazing jewel
Don’t @ him or you will be hunted lol
analog mica
You are playing assa, what snd maintenance?
I play outlaw sir I got bullied by friends to swap from sin and I refuse to play weeby sub
clever sapphire
Ah looked at name
tight fox
wasnt planning on but now....
analog mica
being a pirate is funny
clever sapphire
I play outlaw sir I got bullied by friends to swap from sin and I refuse to play...
Outlaw can be weeby too, lets just bring up the pirate anime with over 10000 episodes 
analog mica
1 pirate anime vs how many ninja animes
tight fox
There really is an anime for everything
spice surge
Weeby sub?
clever sapphire
Tbh when i think about ninjas the first thing that comes to my mind is ninja turtles
gusty mirage
With the mythic mog for this tier I don’t blame you
Rogues running around looking like shredder
blazing jewel
Weeby sub? <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
Homie plays wow but is concerned of playing a ninja spec 
clever sapphire
for the rogue update what are people generally hoping for? I'm rolling away from...
Btw isnt mage getting a big ass gameplay rework? Thought thats saving them and now you reroll to rogue thats waiting for the changes? 
tight fox
whats been done is great but its not enough to keep me playing it - arcane got the option to spam barrage in aoe to fill its lacking aoe dmg, which is cool buuut eh? fire got the bloat removed that it acquired over the last two expansions which was sort of overdue - frost got the most buuut I personally dont like spike and what it does to the gameplay loop sooo here I am
realz mentioned that the rogue update wont be as big as the ret rework, was the ret rework really that big? I didnt like ret before and still dont like it now xD
winged veldt
there is a high chance that you wont like the rogue rework too unless you are already in love with rogue. Grass isnt always greener
tight fox
I already like rogue and monk
winged veldt
then why main mage and so forth lol
tight fox
the hope was that the mage rework would give it something I'd like plus my mage was already geared AND i got high ranks on it before and while looking for a guild again it was somewhat important
vestal wren
we don't know much about 10.2
tight fox
now that I have a guild I can move to something else after sticking to mage for a tier and calling it
IK IK
vestal wren
but keep 2 things in mind:
#1 the little information realz put out seemed quite good
#2 10.2 is quite a while, so there is time to iterate over changes
tight fox
I like all 3 specs of rogue the main thing is just picking between monk and rogue because we dont/wont have a monk but may have 2-3 rogues :c
monk ST really bugs me
vestal wren
i hope that all 3 specs end up slightly more unique than they are atm
winged veldt
same fuu same
vestal wren
all 3 atm have similar damage profiles and strenghs/weaknesses
tight fox
idk what would have to happen to rogue to where i'd regret my reroll
winged veldt
i would like to have to switch between them for different situations like some other classes do
vestal wren
assassination has some benefits the other 2 don't
in that it offers execute and is the only spec that works somewhat with haste
tight fox
idk what would have to happen to rogue to where i'd regret my reroll
idk maybe they become less desirable in m+ because another class gets a shroud like effect but that wouldnt happen right?
vestal wren
shroud wasn't that relevant in recent years
tight fox
ik im making a joke
winged veldt
shroud is so minimal now its not even a thought usually on why to bring rogue lol
blazing jewel
shroud wasn't that relevant in recent years
You’re forgetting subs utility talent of 100% MS during shroud
winged veldt
lol
vestal wren
a node that requires you to go over a 2nd one
and you don't rly care about both
its a meme, but tbh i think its fine
having some dead nodes is expected, esp. with how the tree is designed
vestal wren
i had a talk with zac and others in outlaw recently about it too
assassination has probably the least amount of completely dead nodes
surprisingly outlaw might be the one spec with the most
vapid sierra
shroud is so minimal now its not even a thought usually on why to bring rogue lo...
Why do people bring rogue in m+
Just straight up stuns/kicks and défensives I guess
(Assuming sub isn’t really good in comparison to the other 2)
vestal wren
Why do people bring rogue in m+
survivability, damage and control abilities (basically can make up easier for mistakes)
deft flicker
Why do people bring rogue in m+
No external care needed. Plug it in and watch stuff happen
thorn fjord
(Assuming sub isn’t really good in comparison to the other 2)
Sub cranks in m+
gusty mirage
Sub cranks in m+
you crank in m+
storm belfry
you crank in m+
you crank in m+
ember mural
gusty mirage
https://tenor.com/view/big-daddy-hellyes-gif-26450264
I'm a d4 gamer now
see ya wow nerds later
thorn fjord
Just rolled a necro yesterday and I gotta say blowing shit up is 10/10
Would recommend
vestal wren
I'm a d4 gamer now
nothing wrong if you like it
gusty mirage
Just rolled a necro yesterday and I gotta say blowing shit up is 10/10
unlucky boner spear just got nerfed
vestal wren
i mean you write guides for it ^^
cerulean nest
any recommendations for CD timings on Echo?
vestal wren
fair
cerulean nest
starting prog in a few days
vapid sierra
any recommendations for CD timings on Echo?
I think you cds at end of p2 for start of p3
storm belfry
I got bored of Diablo 4
vapid sierra
Not a good source of info. Haven’t progged
storm belfry
I can’t bring myself to finish the campaign
strange python
So do y'all play rogue in d4 as well?
gusty mirage
any recommendations for CD timings on Echo?
pretty much everything on CD, you'll have to hold for a few seconds in p1 so you don't lose uptime. P2 same thing
send vanish on CD in p1
to extend garrets
after opener
then you vanish gar 2nd add and echo in p2
then you hold CDs toward the end of p2 for p3 to start
cause boss goes immune at 35%
few tips - you can feint all the raid damage, and you can evasion the wall breaks
woeful meteor
extend imp gar with vanish after opener, delay 1:30 sepsis like 10 sec to cover 2min dm, vanish the second p2 add.
Cloak something pre 1:30, cloak the second corruption if you get taken, you can evasion the wall bleed
gusty mirage
I would evasion the 1st to 2nd add transition in p2
cause tons of rot damage and everyone's moving
you avoid all of it
queue up payphone
and wait for the ranged to figure their shit out
gl 
vapid sierra
So do y'all play rogue in d4 as well? <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>
I prolly would
If I did
storm belfry
So do y'all play rogue in d4 as well? <:monkahmm:585734084571955211>
I did until level 35. I hated it. Felt like a knock off demon hunter from d3. Just me personally I know a lot of ppl like it. So I didn’t play the game for a week or so. Then I came back and have been playing w a necromancer and it’s been kinda fun but I still am kinda bored of it. It’s just not hitting like I thought it would
cerulean nest
tyty
gusty mirage
I did until level 35. I hated it. Felt like a knock off demon hunter from d3. Ju...
TB rogue is just shadow impale DH
change my mind
storm belfry
When I press TB I feel like I’m pressing nothing though
gusty mirage
just like shadow impale DH
storm belfry
Like feels like I’m pressing a button w a delayed reaction
gusty mirage
cerulean nest
by "evasion the wall bleed" you mean just whenever a wall is broken? or the one that targets you specifically
gusty mirage
when walls break
storm belfry
Idr what I played as dh
cerulean nest
oh nice
storm belfry
But I tried all the different builds and I hated them all
gusty mirage
Idr what I played as dh
multishot because you're a CHAD
storm belfry
Well I liked the range rogue build but it sucks
Does 0 damage
Felt like I was running on E and shooting nerf arrows 
storm belfry
multishot because you're a CHAD
Maybe so lmao it’s been SO long since I played d3
Necro is fun sorc was p fun as well. Druid I dislike so much
And barb I haven’t tried
storm belfry
It’s just not at all what I thought it would be
gusty mirage
🤝
stiff geode
Anything from crucible going core?
storm belfry
I will install poe tonight
deft flicker
in august you play poe with me
Dude why are you so wholesome??
gusty mirage
idk man
reddit says there's a secret rogue discord server where they left RH because of me
storm belfry
That’s hilarious
deft flicker
A server so secret no one ever saw it ig
gusty mirage
it's because I start fights with people every single day
cyon and I fist fight when we first wake up
so it makes sense ig
deft flicker
I wonder if any “renown” rogue players were ever banned here
But anyone green, orange or purple so far is chill af
storm belfry
cyon and I fist fight when we first wake up
True
deft flicker
Haven’t talked too much to OG purps like Fiery or Rosvall, but they probably are very cool too
storm belfry
I rarely leave this section
gusty mirage
the OG shadows are very very chill
super nice too
you'll catch Rosvall popping into the spec channels every now and then
deft flicker
Well, I already did, just didn’t do much interacting
spice spire
gusty mirage
and Paryah still lurks with the super secret Shadows Emeritus role
but she's giga busy with wowhead stuff now
she's also one of the best human beings I ever met 🙂
vapid sierra
!up
prisma monolithBOT
hot tendon
In the sepsis opener we Sepsis -> Deathmark, why is this?
gray crest
to copy the sepsis with deathmark
hot tendon
Ah, wait ofcourse, its a bleed
vapid sierra
What are your guys alts
Need ideas
Since we all play rogues there’s common ground
gray crest
I barely play my main. only raid log
storm belfry
I am playing rogue this tier for fun but I am mostly an rdruid main
Atm my Alts are my Druid and warlock
strange python
If you're an outlaw main maybe you'll enjoy enhance
serene fiber
Hunter is my alt
gusty mirage
bloodmallet
thorn fjord
It’s accurate?
spice spire
Loosely
thorn fjord
Cool Ty
With augmentation coming into the fold think locks are still going to be getting pi?
gusty mirage
nothing changes in that regard
locks, uhdk, and evoker will still be disgustingly good with PI
'tis what it is
thorn fjord
😢
gaunt moat
Just wait till' they PI augmenter over us 
raven merlin
does any1 know how warcraftlogs will handle the augment. buff or are these whole logs-thing fucked after 10.1.5?
gusty mirage
its supposed to attribute the dps to the augvoker p sure
but who knows how it actually ends up being implemented
their implementation has been kinda shit lately
it took like 8 years for them to put the externals column lmao
raven merlin
its supposed to attribute the dps to the augvoker p sure
Create a complete support augment log, who supports the best kappa
thats sounds absolut terrible and abselutly complicatited to exchange from the real DPS lOGS
gusty mirage
remember when like 3-4 years ago they said they wanted raid leaders to bring "the player not the class"?
balmy condor
It’s the only way to do it though
raven merlin
to seperat all logs with augmentbuff sounds also good
idle inlet
I hear people talking a lot about rogues having too many extra what are the extra buttons? Like shiv sepsis tea er vanish?
gusty mirage
people want to go back where all you pressed is envenom, mutilate, garrote, rupture, and toxic blade (now shiv)
thorn fjord
people want to go back where all you pressed is envenom, mutilate, garrote, rupt...
No thanks
Those people can go play classic
sinful temple
am I reading this right? we have 0 changes for 10.1.5??
thorn fjord
Dmg increase to sub and OL @sinful temple
Rtb change of OL too
Sin still patiently waiting
sinful temple
the patch literally comes out in 2 days and sin is getting no changes?
gusty mirage
yes?
sinful temple
exsanguinate has been bugged for months...
thorn fjord
We got an aura buff a few weeks back
gusty mirage
and we've known about it for like 3 weeks
gusty mirage
if only someone at blizzard acknowledged this like 2-3 days ago in an interview or something
sinful temple
It is a bad thing that we have a bug that is breaking our spec and they don't even acknowledge it
gusty mirage
they don't?
gusty mirage
realz was literally in here the day after we figured out it was bugged
and acknowledged it
but okay
balmy condor
A bug that’s breaking our spec
sinful temple
oh ok I didn't know that
balmy condor
(Less than 1% worse)
thorn fjord
Nobody puts baby in a corner
idle inlet
Isn't it fixing our spec though
thorn fjord
Isn't it fixing our spec though
That’s the beauty of it LOL
balmy condor
A difficult to execute cooldown with timing issues
And now you don’t have to worry about it
thorn fjord
It’s not working as intended but ends up being a qol thing lmao
balmy condor
And lose 0.7% off your sim dps
thorn fjord
Breh it’s a sneaky qol bug that’s all @balmy condor 🤣
spice spire
And lose 0.7% off your sim dps
Rogue devs lowkey a real one for it
thorn fjord
I’d sacrifice .7 to not have to press it
Totally fine with that
I’m already sacrificing close to 1% by playing sin with my current gear set
But fuggit 
sweet dawn
Is there a way to sim Essence if you have a few of the buffs? and not just none or all?
balmy condor
Is there a way to sim Essence if you have a few of the buffs? and not just none ...
Pinned in #tc-research
strange python
You say that like it’s a bad thing
I'd rather play exsang than sepsis
strange python
Sepsis stinks
Juicing exsang was never actually bad at all. Sepsis makes our timings pretty cringe
thorn fjord
I'd rather play exsang than sepsis
gusty mirage
Juicing exsang was never actually bad at all. Sepsis makes our timings pretty cr...
so you think something that was 3 minutes would be better than 1.5 minutes?
strange python
Yep.
gusty mirage
how
gusty mirage
what does sepsis fuck about the shiv timing
holding shiv when a CD is about to come up isn't something that was invented by sepsis
strange python
No. But sepsis has more rotational impact than exsang did.
thorn fjord
Doesn’t fuck with vanish timing much either outside of not using it on pull
gusty mirage
agree to disagree
strange python
And for the channel that complained about how much exsang sucked, sepsis has way more shitty impacts
And doesn't feel good to press
gusty mirage
it was never going to be a 2 minute CD
strange python
Should be.
gusty mirage
apparently you forget how strong it originally was
gusty mirage
and at 3 minutes and 80% speed up, it was still as strong as capstones
but you want it to be 2 minutes
strange python
You could also tune it.
I think it's a more interesting cooldown than "you get another stealth garrote"
gusty mirage
for sure
You get a few more seconds of bleeds per exsang is significantly more interesting than higher uptime on imp garrote
strange python
Yes
gusty mirage
you're entitled to your opinion
royal lantern
remember when like 3-4 years ago they said they wanted raid leaders to bring "th...
but you can totally do that
just need a warrior, mage, dh, monk, priest, warlock, evoker, 2paladins and a enhancment shaman first, and soon 2-3 totally good idea support spec
just bring the player bro
it totally works
gusty mirage
royal lantern
we dont enforce stuff
gusty mirage
just like s2 SL
you totally didn't NEED a DK for soulrender
it just made the fight significantly easier
or a lock on sylv
for the original size of whatever the black circles were called
I forget
vestal wren
"bring the player not the class" was in a newer interview said to be dead
gusty mirage
that were the size of texas
gusty mirage
"bring the player not the class" was in a newer interview said to be dead
yeah that was pretty clear when they made PI baseline
they didn't even need to say it
royal lantern
you totally didn't NEED a DK for soulrender
ye, that was the light version
didnt even include rogue and DK
and DK is 100% needed for 1-2 fights each tier
vestal wren
i think the problem is
royal lantern
"bring the player not the class" was in a newer interview said to be dead
ye, 1 of the biggest L's blizz did in a long time
vestal wren
a lot of the stance of the dev team change every xpac
royal lantern
"yeha, doesnt matter if you play good, we enforce shit now" is such a backass desicion
vestal wren
but it isn't always stated publically
gusty mirage
imagine being a hunter right now
and all you bring is some shitty owl talent that gives your party leech
vestal wren
so you can't rly depend on old statements being still relevant
gusty mirage
lmfao
royal lantern
and all you bring is some shitty owl talent that gives your party leech
the talent is so important that i didnt even knew it exist
but hey, we get SUPPORT SPECS now, that do the same dps as dps specs and at the same time buff others to do even more dps and have deffensive value
good idea
will not backfire
or end in stacking
gusty mirage
wdym they've never had that issue before
crucible of storms never happened
where everyone was bringing like 8 shadow priests
royal lantern
i wonder how the smart wow community will react when they realise that devestation is straight up dead
like
you never touch that spec again
when augemtation exist
gusty mirage
yes you will
fiery mauve
Wdym lol
gusty mirage
devoker is still strong af
gusty mirage
you just make the people playing hunter or rogue or feral swap
balmy condor
Tryan off the goop
gusty mirage
augmentation existing doesn't make this less relevant:
why are we pretending devoker is mid
lmao
subtle stream
I just gently cripple my dps by not running sepsis. Yayyyyyyyy. Just too lazy to make WAs and I reallllllly don’t want to match my stealth bars to non stealth.
gusty mirage
notter made a WA for sepsis tho
vestal wren
think our raids devokers did say they need buffs
