assassination

[lapis osprey]

Nvm can't read ignore me

[whole girder]

got a 447 fragment and 444 neltharion, from what i saw here fragment is oversimming right?

[limber lion]

[runic hinge]

Gn king

[alpine mirage]

Is it ok to macro Bomb trinket to Envenom, Mutilate and or shiv? As I just got Beyond as well.....

as in on all 3 spells?

[slate scarab]

Is it just me, or nerfing the Primordial stones 40% and then giving Sub spec a 4% buff to compensate (with nothing to Sin), we are going to be in the exact same spot behind Sub as we were a week ago. Am I just missing the math?

[limber lion]

You are because Annulet was getting replaced for Assassination anyways

Even without the nerf, high ilvl rings perform better than Annulet

The nerf just widens that gap a bit

[strange python]

anyone progging sark atm? Thinking about going sin tonight but the damage to empty recollection adds looks pretty ass for sin

[slate scarab]

I feel like we are going to come out on the wrong side of that one. Others getting a 4% buff and can still wear a different high ilvl ring is going to end up with us further behind. I guess it's a wait and see thing, but I'm not expecting a positive outcome.

[limber lion]

Huh?

The specs that got compensatory buffs literally wear Annulet even at omega full bis gear

Sub is a spec that currently uses Annulet with full bis

We don't

They lose 3% power from losing Annulet, gain 4% from the aura buff

(not exactly, but around those numbers)

WW monk loses Annulet, which was bis, and they get a 2% compensatory buff. They're +-0

We don't get anything, because we don't lose anything either

Mid-game power is slightly lower, but end-game it's all the same

[slate scarab]

Sub gaining 1% by your math, that's what I thought too. It's not huge, but it's moving in the wrong direction considering Sin is already behind them still. I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but it's odd to move Sub ahead when just last week they seemed to understand Sin was behind.

[limber lion]

No it's not, Sin is literally ahead of Sub

Even with the 1% buff, Sin will be ahead of Sub in terms of ST numbers

Sin gets dumpstered by every spec in the game in Mythic+, but nerfing Annulet and/or giving compensatory buffs won't change that fact

Even if we got a 20% aura buff in M+ somehow idk how, it wouldn't still be enough

[subtle tundra]

hehe 4% buff to sub in m+

thank god i do 80k st with assa in m+!

need to have a weakpoint with that fat aoe i do!

[slate scarab]

https://raid.subcreation.net/

Sub is rank S in M+ and rank A in raid for damage. Sin is rank D and C respectively. Not sure where Sin is ahead.

[subtle tundra]

subcreation again.......

[slate scarab]

Are those numbers not accurate?

[craggy oak]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[subtle tundra]

not going into this

what cev said was correct

[craggy oak]

check out the sheet

[runic hinge]

It’s based on participation

[slate scarab]

That's good then, should I not look at that site? Is it faulty information?

[limber lion]

It sure is

Assassination in C tier, Feral in F?

Get out of here

Lmao

[subtle tundra]

well do you know how it gets those tier lists?

[craggy oak]

tier lists actually need to stop

[slate scarab]

I do not

[limber lion]

Subcreation is one of the worst sites

[craggy oak]

they bait people, and they are actually worthless

[limber lion]

If you don't know how the information is gathered, then I wouldn't blindly follow them

But yeah that is literally for M+ only

[slate scarab]

I thought it was just an accumulation of logs

[limber lion]

Any number of tuning will not fix Assassination in Mythic+

It needs a revamp

[burnt venture]

Subcreation skews the numbers because not many people play Sin or feral in M+

Doesn’t mean they bad

[marble hemlock]

its not even a tier list, its simply an amalgamation of data, which only serves to reinforce the already existing preconceived notions of "whats good and what isnt", by pushing specs that arent very popular low onto a tier list, even if they might be totally viable and valuable

[subtle tundra]

past week, assa is overall best

[limber lion]

Also another thing

[subtle tundra]

probably will get even better as more people will play it

[slate scarab]

Where is that?

[subtle tundra]

oh god

[burnt venture]

WCL

[limber lion]

By pulling information of all of the bosses in the raid tier at once does not tell you anything. Assa might be #1 in a single target boss and then very low on a very heavy AoE fight. Doesn't mean it's a bad spec, just gets gimped by the encounter design which then reflects in these kind of dumb tier lists/websites.

[slate scarab]

OK, thanks, I'll check there next time

[limber lion]

All 3 rogue specs are in a similar spot in the raid, honestly pretty well tuned

[subtle tundra]

well, you need to know how to look at those aswell

[limber lion]

Mythic+ is an entirely different beast

[runic hinge]

You can just play what you like instead of using tier lists as well

[subtle tundra]

i wish they actually brought the spec up in m+, i'd be playing the game if it was actually playable

[burnt venture]

Seli was running Sin M+ and beating his group most of the time in S1 of DF and even then Sin was considered sub-par

[subtle tundra]

please get him here

to laugh at you

[burnt venture]

Who Seli?

[spice spire]

@marble hemlock thoughts on assassination in m+?

Let’s settle this one rq

[slate scarab]

Looking at that site it does look like all 3 are very close

[spice spire]

(It’s worse than sub but fine is probably what he’ll say) or it’ll be worse, idk

[burnt venture]

I’m not saying they are good, I’m saying they are perfectly fine for the M+ content the majority of this discord is running lol

[subtle tundra]

I can also beat all pugs in random 20s,put me in a group with actual humans and I'm not even close

[burnt venture]

They absolutely need help in M+

[slate scarab]

I usually don't worry about it but I thought the gap was so big that I was gimping my groups progress. We aren't cutting edge.

[runic hinge]

In raid the gap is pretty small

[subtle tundra]

back in bfa i could justify assa in some dungeons, but now we're just worse than sub in every way

[burnt venture]

If you aren’t CE then Sin is fine. You aren’t gimping your grp

[subtle tundra]

if you are CE then sin is fine

[burnt venture]

Most bosses are ST and if Sin shines anywhere it’s ST.

True

[marble hemlock]

i mean it does pretty well and even has 2 viable builds, with just 3 buttons.

1. you press N to open your talent UI
2. you click on the "specializations" tab
3. you click either outlaw or subtlety, dealers choice

[burnt venture]

Lmfaoooooo

[austere fulcrum]

!whispry

[errant swallow]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[bronze pike]

i have a new

sin suggestion

deathmark the main cd is removed, but replaced by a new cd that makes you aliving being of toxic poison. like those plague golems in plaguefall. you are slowed by 50% but you irradiate constant poison damage that stacks up to 5 on all targets and allies. once the stack hits 5 the target and allies explodes for massive aoe damage and puts another dot that drains 70% of their hp in 5 seconds

you see

this is to encourage a slowing based meta to keep enemies near the sin rogue while everyone else runs the away. blizzard hire me

[pseudo hamlet]

Seems balanced

Put dots on someone -> use Kidney shot -> use that ability -> see them literally melting

[balmy condor]

I have a new rembourrage suggestion

Lock your doors and close your windows tonight

[spice spire]

HUH

[bronze pike]

ill leave my bedroom window open for u

also oh since your porple now i have a suggestion

this is not a cat

this is a fox

[fleet pagoda]

Could this be a dog?

[bronze pike]

its a fennic fox specifically

[fleet pagoda]

Dog ahead

[spice spire]

This is also not a bear

[fleet pagoda]

[pseudo hamlet]

That's actually vulpera

[bronze pike]

what is going on here

[spice spire]

Tomfoolery

[main vessel]

Haberdashery

[bronze pike]

i forgot to add a cd to my sin buff

um

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/user808080-gif-23523411

[bronze pike]

7mins, reduced by each poison on main target

enjoy

[earnest remnant]

golden retriever

mans vibing

[spice spire]

That’s

[main vessel]

[spice spire]

[bronze pike]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1002368080397221888.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[brazen zodiac]

<3

[main vessel]

❤️

[gaunt moat]

Okay I already hate Zskarn

[half dawn]

hey team, anyone care to check out some of my HC logs to see where I'm going wrong (magma and zskarn)?

[keen spruce]

i'd check out wowanalyzer first, it gives you a ton of good info about your logs and then come back with any specific questions about it if somethin is still not addin up for you

[half dawn]

wowanalyzer?

never used it

thanks

[keen spruce]

https://wowanalyzer.com/

just copy in the url for your kill from warcraft logs

it's very nice

[half dawn]

Thanks, this is cool

I still can't see how even with the suggestions on wowanalyzer it would bring me from 33% parse for my ilvl tho :/

[spice spire]

Ilvl parses

Unreliable information. If you have a lower than average trinket/weapon? Don’t have all your raid buffs? There’s like 609 things that effects it

Overall parse is better to focus on. Unless you’re just insanely undergeared

[hollow cedar]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[half dawn]

im 442 ilvl equipped, but I dont have things like Beacon or 447+ weapons

Also no monk / windfury

[spice spire]

Yeah focus on overall

Only so much you can control y’know

[half dawn]

overall, it seems OK I guess, but I thought I was always meant to focus on ilvl ones 🤔

[gray hazel]

Is there supposed to be a rogue rework of some kind coming up? Or did I miss read that blue post

[oak sky]

at some point yeah

sometime in the next few patches we have something coming

[gray hazel]

Ok cool, just surprising we haven’t really see much lately

Unless it’s a best for last type thing

[oak sky]

it was supposed to come in this next patch but its definitely seeming like it got pushed back to the .1.7 patch

which is ok

if they need some extra time to get it right that works fine for us

the end product matters the most

[wary ice]

I think the devs just been out on bereavement for a while and adjusting the whole class is gunna take a minute.

I do find it funny that shadow priest currently has more impactful changes scheduled for the patch they said was gunna focus on mages and rogues.

But we just be patient kostly

[primal jolt]

any good ass rouge got time to join vc to go trough openers and rotations with me really quick

[fleet pagoda]

did you check the FAQ already? there's also a Sepsis specific resource in the pins if you follow the link

[vestal wren]

it is hard to say what is happening behind the scenes

[primal jolt]

i did

i would just prefer

going trough the kit

with someone more experienced

[vestal wren]

but we still have time before 10.1.5

[primal jolt]

playing ass first time since shadowlands

[wary ice]

Yah not worrierd

[vestal wren]

so there is still the possibility to have devs now work on rogue to get things in on 10.1.5

but even if not, they likely will come back to it for 10.2

[spice spire]

Would love to help; however, I’m here at work for 3 more hours, drive home immediately into raid. If you need review of logs or what have you, have no problem combing through.
The FAQ also provides guides that are helpful (unsure if you knew, but just trying to point out some other things!)

Also you said good so I’m out

[primal jolt]

i havent raided yet with my rogue this season

2 busy healing with my fistweaver

[spice spire]

Oh you can also personal log dummies and stuff

But understandable

[main vessel]

you're good to me, homie

[spice spire]

I am merely a budget vhispyr

But old man version

[main vessel]

wish.com whispyr

[fluid coyote]

Does the 4 set and Slimy Expulsion Boots work together>

[idle inlet]

can someone explain like im 5 how to import the talents to wow

[oak sky]

no

[oak sky]

copy paste the really long text chain, go to talents, theres a little arrow where you pick which build you want, click the thing that says import, then paste the text

[spice spire]

You grab the silly code by copying, and then you open talents, go to import. It’ll have a place for the code, hit ctrl +v there and then name it whatever

Hit enter, and ur cranking

[oak sky]

old man

[spice spire]

Man I’m doing this on my phone

U hecker

[brazen zodiac]

hehe

[languid obsidian]

Since Irideus is bugged, our BiS are now the class trinket and Bomb dispenser?

[fossil garnet]

nah im dumb

ofc I am

[tacit otter]

class, bomb, beacon, essence, dice are all competetive options, depends on ilvl and what you have

[spice spire]

Sure but take whatever sims best

[primal jolt]

iirc beacon is better than bomb, no?

[fossil garnet]

there we go

fixed it

[spice spire]

Bomb sims better for the most part, but again, different folks will have different results

Just use what is best at the moment

[fossil garnet]

finally replaced annulet

took long enough

[sudden orbit]

if you've not crafted yet, toxic or slimy for boots?

[limber lion]

Toxic

[primal jolt]

why do we go Prophetic Twilight Stone on onyx?

[gray crest]

to cause the other stones to proc more damage when the blood stone procs a heal

[chilly viper]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[soft shale]

it gets recursive use like he said you proc healing and then it procs dmg from the other stones possibly

[strange python]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[cerulean nest]

trying sin in raid for the first time this patch tonight

99s incoming wish me luck

[gaunt moat]

LFR?

[cinder bone]

anyone else having a lot of fun with sin in m+?

you can get some nutty indiscriminate carnage pulls

[clever sapphire]

ap/IC build do be fun this week yep

[cinder bone]

i hit 240k on the first pack in freehold and felt like a god

[clever sapphire]

what key lvl?

[cinder bone]

15

[clever sapphire]

ah ye thats nice there

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-more-gif-21856591

Slam the tea

Slam the pot

[clever sapphire]

i have kinda shitty trinkets, but i hit 500k on a 21

forgot about pot ye

[cinder bone]

damn yeah i need to start flasking and potting in m+

[clever sapphire]

im too used to only potting bosses

[spice spire]

No flask

[clever sapphire]

tbf i sometimes also just dont use anything in keys under 16 xD

[spice spire]

Same

But I try to make it a good habit

[clever sapphire]

im too poor to make good habits

every penny is important

[runic hinge]

I have potion macro’ed to dm and when I was learning the sepsis opener I used like 15

[clever sapphire]

And thats the reason why i dont have it macrod

[tall atlas]

so

im hitting the dummy

[clever sapphire]

Gimme the money for all them pots and i will macro it

[tall atlas]

and im like 230 mins in in my second dm

and im doing 140k wtf

[clever sapphire]

If you are hitting it where everyone else is doing it too then you are in constant execute

[tall atlas]

nah just me

during burst

probs cos i vanished

do i just send ER

[shut owl]

Dm window is big damage

Yes, send ER

[tall atlas]

Gonna try sin in mythic tomorrow I think on first boss at least

Any timing tips regarding not getting cucked by mechanics

[minor gate]

ive come to the relisation that my rogue is super squishy

idk if that just to me, my character or its the same across the board

[outer lodge]

eekly

[versed mica]

They are, but are you using feint before hard hitting mechanics?

[minor gate]

yeah

[shut owl]

Run a weakaura that combines dbm/bigwig timers and don't send super hard 1 second before lasers/rifts come out

Other than that just don't get targeted

[minor gate]

im not getting one shot but ive been told by healers im on their focus since the start of the season and im the only rogue

just from how low i get from "passive" damage

[shut owl]

Got a link to your wcl char? Rogues tend to not be pretty good at not being dead; but hard to say if you just have bad rng on mechanics or what in the void

[blazing jewel]

Rogues are pretty bad with rot damage but have every tool possible to outplay other mechanics

[shut owl]

My self healing tends to be on the lower side but I also tend to be near bottom of damage taken even when catching hands from rng mechs

[minor gate]

too bad almost everything this season is rot dmg it seems

getting hit with the "you have anything to deal with that?"

NO

[blazing jewel]

Are you talking about m+ or raid

[minor gate]

m+

raid yeah

but its not as bad

[blazing jewel]

M+ there’s a lot of fancy stuff you can do to reduce damage taken

[shut owl]

M+ is prevention more than cure

Knowing evasion and cloak opportunities and priority is key

[blazing jewel]

I’ve noticed that especially in brackenhide you can outplay most of the mechanics in there

[shut owl]

And then just stunning the shit out of everything possible will reduce a lot of damage

[keen spruce]

CC wins keys

[minor gate]

i got hit by 1 hit of spear flurry in a hall 20 and the dot killed me in 2 ticks

[shut owl]

Blind gouge and kidney are your friend

Don't stand in the cleave friend

That's a cone

[keen spruce]

well you should definitely not get hit by any spear flurries

that will always kill you lol

[minor gate]

ik

but

[shut owl]

Also evadable... But shouldn't stand in bad

[keen spruce]

unless you're dwarf

[versed mica]

I guess I play outlaw so I don't realize how it may have harder for sin, since outlaw is pretty tanky

[shut owl]

That bleed kills tanks

[minor gate]

the tank brought it back on me

[keen spruce]

yeah i mean every avoidable mechanic will instantly kill you at some point

when keys get to a resonable level

that's just m+

[minor gate]

the frog on tyran is also a pain

[shut owl]

You gotta be dancing around the tank sometimes.

Why? Feint the aoe damage

[minor gate]

yeah

[shut owl]

Crippling + FoK handles toads

[cerulean nest]

finally boys

[minor gate]

wow speed

[shut owl]

Grats! Nice speed

[cerulean nest]

tyty

[minor gate]

wish i could get A trinket

[shut owl]

I got a vanilla one of those this week. Finally replaced my incarnate icon lol

[minor gate]

rocking with fragment and the horn

[shut owl]

3 weeks of max m+ vaults farming FH, HoI, Uld almost exclusively lol

[minor gate]

hunter beat me by 1 on a bomb dispencer and ive never seem him use it

[shut owl]

Rip

That's when you change to loot council and show them silly numbers from bloodmallet as an excuse

[minor gate]

he was like ive never been lucky with roll while rocking beacon and class tinket

[versed mica]

I'm just pretty sure I'll never get bomb or beacon ever

I haven't even seen either of them drop, let alone win the roll

[gaunt moat]

Any tips for Zskarn? like.. uninstall the game or something

[gusty mirage]

you already covered my suggestion

alternative, unplug your ethernet cable and go to sleep

[versed mica]

Wait for nerfs

Ez

[gaunt moat]

This boss is ass.

[gusty mirage]

but realistically, idk I haven't pulled it on mythic ever

cheese or no cheese

[brazen zodiac]

:C

[gusty mirage]

I was benched for the cheese

watched other guilds do it

try to stick to boss

and try not to die

but it's a shit show every single time

terrible boss

[vapid sierra]

so im a lil confused about what happened yesterday

aura buffs nerfs

[gaunt moat]

Just too many things going on ALL THE TIME.

[vapid sierra]

onyx ring changes

whats going on?

[keen spruce]

nothing happened to us

10.1.5 upcoming changes

[vapid sierra]

onyx still bis?

[keen spruce]

you'll replace annulet with somethin else

[minor gate]

so you know how almost everyone uses it

[keen spruce]

no

it's getting nerfed by 40%

[minor gate]

not anymore

[keen spruce]

lol

[vapid sierra]

dogshit ring now lmao

[keen spruce]

well not now

in like a month

[vapid sierra]

maybe eggnog

[keen spruce]

when .5 drops

[gaunt moat]

I wanna go back to rashok, it was a nice scripted fight

[minor gate]

isnt .5 like next week or smth

[gaunt moat]

they haven't announced a date yet

[minor gate]

im probably wrong

i kept thinking it was meant to line up with the catalyst

[gaunt moat]

My guess is in they'll announce the date next week, and it'll be 2-3 weeks from then.

[gaunt moat]

I'm just mad cause we looked at some fights after raid, and I got told it's mt fault for dying, when I was marked, and then a warrior with a mark came behind me and stood on me for 2 seconds.
I was told that I should have moved, because he also needs to come close to DPS.
HE'S MARKED

[proper tapir]

They said they want to address ghostly strike for outlaw in a future ptr update, so clearly they're still working the ptr. They've never said something would be reworked later and not followed up.....

[gaunt moat]

I couldn't even see him coming because he came behind me

[gusty mirage]

they expect you to have 360 degree awareness on that fight?

[cerulean nest]

its good to be back

[vapid sierra]

shiit

what fight?

[cerulean nest]

just kazz M, first one back on the spec

beacon didnt crit either time

rip

[gaunt moat]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q8aXkwrtp1AL6G4D/#fight=57&view=replay
is this public for you?

[gusty mirage]

yessir

[gaunt moat]

check from 0:45 in replay

look at him coming behind me

I was assassinated

[gusty mirage]

lmao the evoker assassinated themselves too

[proud basin]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[gaunt moat]

That too. but like.. at that point, the warrior should have just stepped back for 4 seconds and chill

[proud basin]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gusty mirage]

he HAS to hit the boss

[gaunt moat]

Even worse, I was blamed for trying to hog dps uptime instead of surviving. WHAT

[gusty mirage]

you don't get it

only thing more fitting would have been a DH dashing around clipping you

[gaunt moat]

Yeah that's would never happen right?

And also another warrior standing right besides me, so i can't move away

[desert pasture]

was something tweaked with sims to where i'm simming 1k less today than yesterdya

[balmy condor]

Back-end fixes to sepsis

[gaunt moat]

there was a simc update to fix sepsis

#assassination message

[desert pasture]

ahh sadge

ok

nothing changed with what we want to play right?

[gaunt moat]

it's all the same

[outer lodge]

444 Nelth trinket is out simming 441 beacon for me after i just got beacon

[delicate hemlock]

my guilds kill times are right around 2:30 on hc last week so im gunna the prepull beacon cheese does anyone know, does it put in combat as soon as the cast finishes? even before the meteor falls?

[limber lion]

Nelth trinket honestly pretty cringe

I have Nelth trinket and Dice and it's a mega rng fest

Gotta pray that both weapon enchants proc often

Gotta pray that the Nelth trinket procs more than once during the fight

Gotta pray that Dice rolls often and well

[spice surge]

Beacon crits are very fun too

[limber lion]

But at least your trinket does something every time you use it

Nelth trinket legit has moments where it does nothing

It's like having a 600 vers stat stick on and nothing else

[spice surge]

ye

fair enough

[limber lion]

But yeah not a big fan of the "... chance to gain x amount of x stat" effects

when the rpm is so low

They're good if the rpm is decent where it's consistently good

but still has moments of gigachad gaming where it procs b2b2b2b2

[spice surge]

Ye both sophic and nelth trinket

Both of them 1 rppm

[tall atlas]

Eleem

You changed colours bro

Are you ok

[spice surge]

Yep

[tall atlas]

Good maybe see a doctor tho

[tall atlas]

Like soul cap

Soul cap is the best trinket they’ve ever put into rogues hands and I mostly feel that because of the way it made your screen go when it procced and you just knew you were about to pop a huge crit

And when it lined up with cds you just felt amazing because it was so obvious when you were in cap

[spice surge]

Augmentation evokers big cd is essentially a soul cap for the people with their buff

[oak sky]

its just like sophic

[balmy condor]

Dogshit

[oak sky]

yep

i cant wait to come back

im actually fiending for some rogue

[balmy condor]

I think you can

[oak sky]

what do you mean

[balmy condor]

You have it within your powers to be able to wait

[oak sky]

true

im like

so casual that im playing the sub build from last tier

in my heroic pugs

and i wont even have adruid vault for this week probably

because i missed raid to move out of my dorm

[strange trail]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[dreamy vault]

whats a good energy to pool to for envenom?

[woeful meteor]

Pooling isn’t a thing anymore

[vapid sierra]

am i the only one who like holds tea for too long

and then at the end of a fight your trying to starve energy so you can actually use tea

and then you just use it before boss dies so you get the slgiht mastery even tho your swimming in ambush procs and energy already?

[gaunt moat]

My issue is using it too early if anything.

[vapid sierra]

i always send 2 in my opener

then 1 right around my second dm

[gaunt moat]

Use 1 in the opener, and then next one is like at 0:30~

[vapid sierra]

cant remember if i send one around the first sepsis

[vapid sierra]

thats what i meant by 2

[sudden isle]

is there somewhere i can view accurate stat weights/minimum reqs for assassin? everything i see about weights says crit mast are two best but sims want me to get haste

[vapid sierra]

its whatever the sim tells you tbh

i dont believe there is a min haste/vers/crit/mast. if you need more of one stat the sim will tell you to grab a bit more of it

[gusty mirage]

there are no minimum requirements for assassination

[sudden isle]

okay for sure. i just wanted to understand why it's wanting me to get haste. ultimately going to follow what the sim says but i like to understand whats going on

[gusty mirage]

so generalized stat prio would be Agility > Crit > Mastery >= Haste => Vers

if you're loaded on crit/mastery

the robot will want you to grab more haste

which is especially true when you get to the DR values, which is more than obtainable at the ilvls we're reaching

[sudden isle]

that's what i figured. thank you for the clarification

[gusty mirage]

[keen spruce]

[spare flame]

Hey do you guys macro the bomb trinket to anything? And if so, what?

[balmy condor]

I just have it on a button

If it’s the only on-use you have, you could macro it to mutilate I guess

But the moment you get a second on-use that fucks you over

[swift moss]

I had 22% melee miss on rashok and top rogues have like 16% am I just unluck?

[keen spruce]

you got parried 8 times

which kinda happens on that fight

but try to be behind him

i have no idea if miss % also goes up if you're in front of the boss

[runic hinge]

How many other specs have their main damage cd tied to their target?

[gusty mirage]

arcane's touch of the magi is the closest p sure

but that's like a 45s cd

[runic hinge]

Make dm aoe or some kind of self buff or make us the absolute kings of single target. That’s all I’m saying

[supple onyx]

Colossus smash

[shut owl]

Ret Paladins running execution sentence maybe. But who knows, maybe in 10.1.5 it will cleave to the nearest 55 targets just for funsies

[runic hinge]

they still have wings tho

[shut owl]

It's up randomly enough and forced on prog enough that I don't even know if I consider wings a cd anymore so much as a ret state of existence

[runic hinge]

fair

[shut owl]

My wife beats me in parse and starts JoJo posing on me without knowing the reference she makes. We look at logs and she has 78% wing uptime.

T-T pretty sure she murdered someone in cold blood during corruption on echo just for the buff

[runic hinge]

I guess you do what you gotta do

[shut owl]

Though I'd be lying if I said we didn't duel each other fiercely whenever wipe was called XD

True love

[idle inlet]

Since beacon is a channel do we channel it pre pull so we don't lose out on gcds during lust in the opener?

[gusty mirage]

you can, but if you don't want to vanish at start you just garrote > slice and dice > echoing reprimand > rupture > beacon > rest of the opener

that way lust still covers all your Cds

[marsh grail]

Garrote > beacon works aswell

[idle inlet]

I'd much rather just vanish than do a channel in the middle of my opener. Also the last time I saw whispyr update the opener was with the final sepsis update is there a new opener now

I've been doing gar slice mut to 5 rupture sepsis dm shiv er and then go into normal rotation

[keen spruce]

that opener is fine

but the one oxi posted is the most updated one

slightly more efficient

and gets your DM out a couple globals earlier

[runic hinge]

using er on first rupture just feels better

[idle inlet]

Yeah it looks better also gets er out faster too

[keen spruce]

feels almost the same, very easy to switch over to it

[idle inlet]

Did blood mallet get updated for sin buffs yet?

[keen spruce]

blood mallet just pings of simcraft

so it should

but fragment isn't fixed yet

so it's still gonna show too high

[vestal wren]

you can iirc jump to not trigger the trinket use

[idle inlet]

Blood mallet is showing that nelth is 4th best trinket but the pinned post suggests that nelth is tied for 2nd depending on rng

[vestal wren]

bloodmallet uses a diffrent way to evaluate

they basically put a stat stick in the 2nd trinket slot and put the trinket for evaluation in the first slot

i did discuss this with koji, and we found that doing trinket combinations was a better approach

^ the reason is that you see the impact between on use / not on use

so you have a better idea how trinkets interact with each other

[idle inlet]

So raidbots should work fine because it's using your gear instead of a random stat stick

[vestal wren]

this is why trinket suggestions might vary between BM and what you see on my spreadsheet or suggested in this discord

yes, raidbots is always the best option

because it considers your personal gear

[sour citrus]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[idle inlet]

Why do we shiv during deathmark? Or after I'm not sure the pinned post isn't super clear. I get why during sepsis cuz it's nature damage but deathmark isn't nature damage... I think

[raven merlin]

double rupture from 3pc, weaponpoisons

2pc

[idle inlet]

Oooooooh. Which one is higher priority to have shiv up for? Or is it a negligible difference

[deft flicker]

I think you can always have a shiv for every sepsis and a double shiv for every deathmark (if you play lightweight shiv), otherwise just press on cd ig

[balmy condor]

You play with 2 charges so you will have a charge for both regardless. If you play it as intended, your 2 min Deathmark will line up perfectly with both shivs as well. The 4 min one gets a bit more shaky but still at least 1

Deathmark doubling poisons is deceptively powerful, because it also doubles amplifying poison, which will then double buff envenoms

[blazing jewel]

double this

[deft flicker]

[blazing jewel]

[balmy condor]

If you add our balls together and double it, we would have 6 balls, and that’s a lot of balls

[blazing jewel]

wait huh

I have 2 nuts

not 3

wait

math

dont laugh

delete the vod

which one of us is a one nut gamer

[royal lantern]

🥜

[balmy condor]

[blazing jewel]

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

Well that changes things

Cause I have 3

I thought you didn’t have any

[blazing jewel]

why is the purple name so toxic

[balmy condor]

The void corrupts all

Purple bad color

[blazing jewel]

is the void the exsanguinate lines on the apl

[balmy condor]

All wow players know that

[royal lantern]

oh, so whisp is the normal warcraft villian

good guy turns evil cus corruption from an outside source

gotcha

[oak sky]

omg 11.0 spoiler

[clever sapphire]

It would be more interesting to fight whispyr as an endboss than sark

Intermission starts and whispyr just starts explaining a new opener. If you cant do it 1 to 1 as he said you lose 5% dps for the whole fight

[royal lantern]

the debuff is called "check the FaQ"

[balmy condor]

You counter with a new opener and then wait 3 hours to get a 2500 word rebuttal that insta wipes you as an enrage timer

We got 3 mechanics

Already better than zskarn

[clever sapphire]

I got a phase 2 also. Adds are spawning from the corners of the room, they are fotm players that come into the discord asking if assa is the new top ST spec after the 5% aura buff. If they get to whispyr he gets a permanent 10% aura buff (doesnt impact his meeles luckily since he is an assa player)

[balmy condor]

Holy what a mechanic

You gotta spell out phrases like “read the faq” or “check the pins” like a middle school typing game in order to kill the adds before the reach me

[clever sapphire]

sounds like hell of a bossfight, now you could flex with your typing speed

[royal lantern]

everything is better then zskarn, that fight is the pinnacle of "how to NOT make a fight"

🙂

[clever sapphire]

just so people are motivated to type it first, it adds 1million dmg done to your details meter everytime you kill an add first

[blazing jewel]

is the enrage moment when whispyr starts schizo posting and then magically comes up with a new apl by 8am

[clever sapphire]

also since i hate evoker players, whispyr starts with 30% hp motivating execute specs

[sharp trellis]

Hi , as M+ player , do you still recommend to use Onyx until 447 ilvl bis ring ?

[royal lantern]

is that before or after the "ocean of monster energy" intermission?

[blazing jewel]

hes a redbull queen no monster allowed

[clever sapphire]

im guessing this part of the pin still counts, until the ring nerfs come

[clever sapphire]

and when he dies (if you manage to kill him somehow), he just logs off and goes to play maplestory, saying that its the superior game

[blazing jewel]

[keen spruce]

maple story secret phase

[clever sapphire]

i think we cooked up a pretty good new boss for S3, blizzard should just hire us all for boss design

[royal lantern]

and the best part: when the boss.dies, whisp dies irl

[clever sapphire]

[balmy condor]

it's "staying for the entire patch" is a bit hand-wavey

cause like

it isn't

but the way people kick the ring out is so different

shmeeps fucking dropped that shit like 2 weeks ago

I can barely drop it this week

with a crafted

[royal lantern]

yep

[balmy condor]

some people legit droptimizer and can't drop it, ever

[royal lantern]

its still so much higher then everything else

[balmy condor]

it's super fucked

[royal lantern]

for me

[clever sapphire]

well im never dropping it, rings would need to drop for me to go that far

[balmy condor]

so I'm just saying it's staying all patch because it's easier that way

[royal lantern]

got a 447 questionable loyality from vault with socket

onyx still higher

[balmy condor]

bro I was simming rings

and I got onyx to drop

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

and then it added fucking eranog back

I was fuming

[royal lantern]

atleast i could replace eranog ring now

[clever sapphire]

oh i remember that 🤣

see the problem with you guys is, you are getting rings

i never got an eranog ring, and i havent gotten a single ring yet this season

so im not even thinking about swapping rings

makes my life easier

[blazing jewel]

60 dps will be the difference

[royal lantern]

its not about the number

its about the fact that it sims higher at all

[grim jay]

Might be about their vers levels maybe

I'd be happy to drop it

But its decently ahead

Sitting on a lot of vers tho

And it doesnt help that my crafted stuff is crit vers

[shut owl]

Vers handy for not being dead though

[grim jay]

Yeah sure, I meant just for the sake of dropping the ring

And I'm on like 15% rn

Since I'm using my sub m+ gear

[balmy condor]

that's cope as fuck

anyone who says vers as a defensive layer is nice for rogues is on drugs, doing a +35 with unfeintable mechanics, or doesn't understand how healing works

[grim jay]

Healing ? I only know R for Vial

[balmy condor]

if it's a dangerous mechanic, healers will be funneling into you anyways, if it's party/raid wide, healer cooldowns are assigned for it

the only way vers actually does something is if a mechanic meets all of the following

1. A mechanic that cannot be feinted/cloaked/evasioned
2. The healer cannot heal the mechanic to begin with
3. Your vers gives you a breakpoint in damage taken where the 8-9% you have is barely enough to let you survive

and In this expansion, I could probably count those on one hand

[grim jay]

I had to change enchants and some stuff yesterday because of your Sepsis fix as it pushed me back to just slightly above 125k.

[grim jay]

Yeah I cant think of many either

[balmy condor]

like mythic nelth explosions do a fuck ton, but they're feintable

if you don't have feint, you're still gonna live

because there's healer cds/amz for it

and if you as the rogue are dying to it

then like 8 other people are dying to it as well

and it's not your problem

cause that's a wipe

ain't no way in hell you have a raid-wide mechanic

and the rogue dies before a priest or whatever

it just does not happen

vers or no vers

[pseudo nimbus]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[royal lantern]

mate, people dont understand how healing works, more news later

ask your average dps player if they know that healers are hard target and CD capped for aoe healing, or if they know the CD on a dispell

[clever sapphire]

i play disc priest and i still dont know my dispell CDs

[shut owl]

-0

Never stop the deeps

If they've got atonement the light will sort them out

[grim jay]

I guess I'd need myself an exorcism if I ever know any priest CDs

I do have addons for that

[sharp trellis]

Wowhead recommend freezing ice on m+ content while here it's Storm infused . do you switch it on tyrannic / fortified week ?

[balmy condor]

usually storm always

[sharp viper]

storm is still decent in single target fights

[balmy condor]

I just don't care enough to min-max on a guide aimed at newbies or tell them to farm a second ring ya know

most people reading that guide won't even farm the first ring

[forest chasm]

is toxic thorn footwraps still oversimming?

[sharp viper]

although I'm looking forward to the day I get a 447+socket ring (2 weeks or vaults) to get rid of that stupid onyx ring

[balmy condor]

thorn is fine

[sharp viper]

before the nerf

[forest chasm]

thanks, guess thats my next craft then

[brazen lagoon]

Hey guys, i need to talk with Assa Who farm M+ too, someone ?

[balmy condor]

what's the question

[brazen lagoon]

Im trying to min max everything, any stats changes or so to get more "overall" ?

[pseudo hamlet]

Crit > Mast would be the best for M+. You can always sim yourself with the Dungeon Slice and check out if the item is better for you!

[brazen lagoon]

Yup im doing some sims since i woke up lol, trying to get close to the subs :p

[balmy condor]

you won't

[deft flicker]

Overall will vastly differ depending on dungeon, route and your on-demand burst capabilities

[bronze pike]

subs kit is way different than sins

and overal in general depends on how agressive your team and tank is

[brazen lagoon]

Im at 136k on Sub build (optimized) and 120k on Assa.

I wont reach them until we got an AoE buff but i prefer playing Assa

[clever sapphire]

tbh make the tank always do big pulls and you will enjoy assa

[bronze pike]

your probably better off playing what you like

[bronze pike]

the only pulls i do is "big"

[brazen lagoon]

Sub is all out at every min yeah, kinda comfy but i miss my poison bombs 😦

[deft flicker]

There was some AP+IC build that does better in terms of overall, but I can’t find the link

[brazen lagoon]

I always play what i like. Im an Assa Guy you know

[grim jay]

And its shit on ST

Pretty bad for pugs

[brazen lagoon]

I saw Sub can get rid of Onyx ring
Do we keep it or we can aim for something ?

[clever sapphire]

im only playing the AP/IC build on fort weeks, and tbf i dont find the ST part so bad

its not like im 10k dps behind the other 2 dps

[grim jay]

Wildly depends on the other 2

[grim jay]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[grim jay]

You can replace it

[clever sapphire]

seeing as you said pugs, im assuming its max 21-22 keys and there you wont really find any insane blasters that do 140k dps on boss

[brazen lagoon]

How much you get from it ?

[grim jay]

Im pretty sure you aint doing 130 on bosses tho

[clever sapphire]

comes down to keys, bracken 150-170k depending on pull sizes, freehold 130-145k or so

[brazen lagoon]

Yup so you are kinda beefy with AT

Nice overall btw

[clever sapphire]

well im jsut saying that for pugs, that missing ST wont be the end of the world, because forti weeks its just more fun to do big aoe

and boss dmg on most keys will be fine that way too

like im still ending on 80k dmg on freehold first boss on a 21, and my gear is pretty meh

[clever sapphire]

tank dependent, or if i make a "mistake" and tag another pack into the pull because i see the tank being topped anyways

[grim jay]

Most pugs wipe on bosses or stupid pulls. Doing more dps on stupid pulls wont help that much since those are mostly lost to begin with. Doing more dmg on bosses on the other hand saves you mechanics

[brazen lagoon]

Pug is so wild so..

[normal mist]

Gm, i just want to complain that i have yet to kill sark HC and every time he gets to 30% it's a wipe for some reason.

[steel ridge]

easy solution, dont wipe

[grim jay]

Thats like 25-30k lower than other classes/specs with good st

[steel ridge]

follow me for more tips and tricks

[normal mist]

Thank you sensei

[brazen lagoon]

Btw, how do you play Écho and Sarka ? Tried a sub build to help blasting adds but 1st im not a True sub player and 2nd i think i do the same with poison bomb procs

[steel ridge]

poison bomb procs are nothing to scoff at for really stacked cleave

[clever sapphire]

different experiences i guess

[brazen lagoon]

We need some talent changes to be "competitive" in M+ imo

[clever sapphire]

i usually see people around 90k on that boss, atleast in my pugs

[grim jay]

The poison bomb part is unlikely, but you just blast the boss as always. Or the big add on echo

[clever sapphire]

and thats why i bought sark hc

easy

[normal mist]

Some of my friends did the same

ATM going for 100k but i don't want to waste that gold..... Yet

[brazen lagoon]

But how do you manage the small adds from P3 echo and p2 sarka ?

[clever sapphire]

yep one of mine did too, i have no idea why its harder to pug sark then it was to pug jailer hc xD

[clever sapphire]

you dont, you are assa

[grim jay]

I'm between 105 and 110k myself and my pug mates usually go from 90-105, depending on class

[clever sapphire]

as sub i also do 105 to 110 yep

on boss dmg

[deft flicker]

Well, you’re not really wasting gold since buying heroic sark unlocks his loot in the vault for the rest of the season

[clever sapphire]

so i kinda get demotivated when going back to assa ST in M+, thats why i dont touch sub

[deft flicker]

So you can get cloak/bacon earlier

[normal mist]

Yes but ultimately my goal is to kill sark and call it a patch, buying it would be so.... Meh.

[royal lantern]

people have to do bombs

nobody does bombs cus they wanna do dps/healing

if they do bombs and wipe cus everyone else is a pug hero, somoe will say in chat "nice dmg X" and then they get kicked

repeat

[deft flicker]

Yeah… although it can make your prog faster

[steel ridge]

thats what arcane mages are for 😄

[grim jay]

Hunters

[royal lantern]

mate, the average pug player cant even pilot BM Hunter

[normal mist]

Not mine at least. Problem isn't my ST :p problem is adds taking ages to die and people doing pushback bombs wrong and bad usage of personals

And ppl dying p1

[clever sapphire]

i got kicked because i was low on dmg (10th out of 14 dps), but i was also the one playing the bombs because nobody else touched them

[deft flicker]

[brazen lagoon]

So i play like they dont even exist or some ruptures or sometjing ?

[steel ridge]

hihihi

[blazing jewel]

guys what does deadly poison tastle like

[pseudo hamlet]

mountain dew

[clever sapphire]

you can rupture for energy, it wont do enough dmg for it to matter. Pray for poison bomb procs if they are grouped on the boss

thats about it

[brazen lagoon]

I see

[pseudo hamlet]

FoK + Envenom/Rupture/Whatever on Echo, on Sark - depends on the group

[brazen lagoon]

Ty

[clever sapphire]

i mean you could also play sbs instead of sepsis, thatway you can spread the spike and get full points after the 3rd spike always

[grim jay]

Like river water a hobbit soaked his feet in

[clever sapphire]

i personally just ignore the existence of the adds and kick/stun if nobody else is doing it

[brazen lagoon]

Don't think its worth leaving Sepsis :/

[clever sapphire]

yep, im just listing options if you really wanna do something with the adds

[brazen lagoon]

And weigh the pros and cons :p

[steel ridge]

sbs has a lot less fail potential tho

[brazen lagoon]

btw, how is your AT+IC build ? you drop DTB to get IC ?

yeah sbs is safe

[clever sapphire]

https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/assassination/DAOFVERBEREaVGIkRBUNVWIURVEhAETNEA

This is my current build

Took out exsang and put it into venom rush

[brazen lagoon]

RIP Exsang

[clever sapphire]

maybe another point into improved would be better not sure

or iron wire for more utility

or even amp poison, but im not sure if its worth to get without dtb

atleast for M+

[brazen lagoon]

lemme check

[clever sapphire]

thats something for the tc guys to decide whats the best, i just took venom rush because i felt that my energy is dropping faster in boss fights without venom rush and 4 poisons

[brazen lagoon]

you use Cold blood on kriss or envenom ?

[balmy condor]

what the fuck

I shouldn't have clicked

y'all on your fucking own for that

god damn

[steel ridge]

go back to sleep bro

[clever sapphire]

told ya im not playing iron wire

xD

[clever sapphire]

shiv in aoe, envenom on ST

[royal lantern]

spec channels giving you a crisis again?

[clever sapphire]

i have a pretty strong trigger for whispyrs ptsd, i think its the second time he checks one of my builds and im not running iron wire 🤣

[balmy condor]

then why in gods name are you taking MA bro what are you fucking doing with your life

[clever sapphire]

cause it crits

and crit cool

[steel ridge]

MA is garbo

[balmy condor]

the cancer has metastasized man

you fucks cook dslice until it's burnt to a crisp

and then pull this garbage

nah

y'all on your own

all will be judged in the light of god

I can't save you

[clever sapphire]

im not cookin dslice, im just running around with random shit because it doesnt impact my 20s much 🤣

[brazen lagoon]

you don't like echoing reprimand too ? :p

[clever sapphire]

i took this build from tc research when it was cooked up, but there it was with exsang instead of MA im pretty sure 🤔

and it was cold blood instead of er, but ye i dont like er

[grim jay]

https://tenor.com/view/crisp-crispy-elmo-apple-heads-gif-24456581

[clever sapphire]

whispyr you should know by now that opening my builds is just gonna curse your eyes atleast

but now that you mention it i could take out MA for something else 🤔

[balmy condor]

there's a famous quote about if your friend jumps off a bridge

think it's like

"if your friend jumps off a bridge, do you follow them?"

and then the response is like "yeah bro he did a backflip that shit was gnarly"

[clever sapphire]

well i just like AP because it feels good on forti weeks with IC

im just doing like 1 weekly key, and for that my shitty build suffices

and it also makes my overall look good, sure i may have wasted a point in MA but who cares xD

wait i can take out MA and venom rush, now i have 2 points, can i get to poison bomb?

[bronze pike]

Sounds like

We need a new sin suggestion :3c

[clever sapphire]

feck nope im missing 1 point to get to the bottom part

now the question is, 2 points in improved poisons, or venom rush and the talent under which name i forgot

[grim jay]

AP and feels good in one sentence

Should only be possible if the sentence is "it feels good that we dont play AP"

[clever sapphire]

i think whispyr gonna have the worst dreams after seeing what i play in forti weeks

[clever sapphire]

you must be a rotten hater huh

im just trying to make use of a talent blizzard put in place of my lovely KB

[grim jay]

I dont like rotten yes

[clever sapphire]

understandable, have a nice day

[brazen lagoon]

you don't lega megaloop combo to death ?

[clever sapphire]

anyways im happy with my build and you cant do anything about it

[brazen lagoon]

like*

[grim jay]

I mean I respect your decisions and I like that you are happy with them

But damn is it cursed

[clever sapphire]

Yep thats why im gonna take MA out

[balmy condor]

I don't respect your decisions

[clever sapphire]

After that its gonna be fine

[balmy condor]

also you can't give me more nightmares than the ones I had reading the whole cold blood shit in the first place

[clever sapphire]

XD

[deft flicker]

How do you ironize your wires then??

[clever sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-cat-filing-nail-getting-ready-bring-it-on-im-listening-gif-17677371

[clever sapphire]

I dont thats the secret

[deft flicker]

Ironic

[grim jay]

I always told you big boi AoE CB TTB shiv nukes are the thing

[balmy condor]

also I've been listening to yeat for the last 3 hours cause one of my friends said it's gas

this is garbage

I have not enjoyed one song

[blazing jewel]

no shot

[balmy condor]

who listens to this

[blazing jewel]

yeat is peak gaming/lifting music

[grim jay]

What is yeat

[blazing jewel]

I actually like yeat if its the right mood

[clever sapphire]

Sounds like you have a great day

[deft flicker]

I mean people can have some wild tastes

My ex tasted like toothpaste

[grim jay]

I only listen to metal while lifting

[blazing jewel]

idk metal just doesnt do it for me

but I can see why people like it for lifting

[grim jay]

I grew up with slipknot, limp bizkit and rammstein

[clever sapphire]

Man i played my arms warri for a few keys and asked my warri main friend to send me his playlist, and it was just as expected. Full on heavy metal

[blazing jewel]

whispyrs just mad because he hasnt see the yeat bell memes

[clever sapphire]

Also CB AP shiv giving full combo points in aoe satisfies my eyes because i see atleast something go high if not my dmg

[grim jay]

I respect your determination to listen to it tho

I prolly wouldve stopped after skipping the 5th Song after 30s

[clever sapphire]

Listen to peanut butter jelly time for 4 hours on loop, did that in school whilst playing flash games

I cant listen to that song ever again

[balmy condor]

if I wanted to listen to someone sing badly I would put on drake

[blazing jewel]

[grim jay]

Based

[blazing jewel]

I think whispyrs first purple name decision should be to host the rogue podcast from inside an egirl discord server

[oak sky]

wait one of them is funny

[oak sky]

im trying to remember which one it is

on tha line

but like idk yeat kinda mid overall

not very diverse

[clever sapphire]

yeet that shit outta the window (im not sure if i ever listened to a yeat song, dont even know what those are)

[balmy condor]

bro yeat is a mumble rapper with no flow

how is that possible

[oak sky]

yeah i mean

1 flow

[blazing jewel]

bring back soundcloud rap era

[clever sapphire]

mumble rap, yep you can yeet that out the window

[oak sky]

on tha line is so funny

when he said how does he does it i felt that

[cunning nest]

I did 10 hours trololo nonstop like 8 years ago. My brain is damaged for the Rest of my live

[clever sapphire]

yikes

some things just shouldnt ever happen

[deft flicker]

Yea

[balmy condor]

do not speak

[clever sapphire]

i think i triggered your fight or flight mechanism

going back to the drawingboard with my build

[deft flicker]

I did listen to Super Meat Boy OSTs for like 4 days straight at some point

Probably spent more time doing that than actually playing the game

[clever sapphire]

aight just to make you happy, im gonna copy your build that you played in your latest key and see how well i fare with that tonight

[balmy condor]

boss damage +20%

huge

[clever sapphire]

Gonna miss my aoe shivs

[sour citrus]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[uneven summit]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[cunning nest]

Switched to DTB ic läßt week, I feel you

Cleave shiv is awesome, every one who disagree shall have only cold water in the morning

But with DTB bosses feel muuuuch better sadly

[clever sapphire]

you can play dtb AP

[brazen lagoon]

We want IC baseline

[clever sapphire]

we dont want IC at all

[cunning nest]

I would never play m+ without ic Bro

[clever sapphire]

remove IC

make dots worthy of single handedly dotting up

make them count

[cunning nest]

Would need a VERY good substitute then

[brazen lagoon]

Aint nobody got time for dat

[royal lantern]

then dont play a dot based spec

sublety and outlaw are 1click away

[cunning nest]

Ic should be more towards the top, but CT schould be baseline. Playing without an aoe Finisher is insanity

[cunning nest]

But all dot specs have some Kind of spread mechanic

[brazen lagoon]

Sub is my off brain m+ spec

[subtle tundra]

assa is my off brain m+ spec

piss easy

[brazen lagoon]

But after couple runs i hear "poison" in my head

[royal lantern]

cool, and thats also why spriest turned from an actually special spec into a generic braindead shit thing

1button to instant spread dots->bladeflury

cool

10/10desing

[brazen lagoon]

Ahah

[royal lantern]

remember when outlaw was special because of bladeflury?

[brazen lagoon]

I understand your point of view, i can agree with that

But if we cant spread correctly we cant compete with the bursty shadow guy

Especially for garrote spread, rupture isnt a problem

[royal lantern]

why not

[cunning nest]

I dont know about priest, May be true. Thing is: dot based spec should still be competitiv. Its problematic when you always need 8s until you can start to Deal damage

I would agree that ic is boring and makes aoe much easier

But id rather have it then not

[royal lantern]

i mean yeha, same

[brazen lagoon]

Yup thats it

[royal lantern]

but i rather have a actual aoe fix

and no IC bandaid

[cunning nest]

If you or Blizz has a better idea, I think we are All open for it

[cunning nest]

I can agree on that

[brazen lagoon]

Btw is AP valuable or keep the good old IC DTB no exsang?

[royal lantern]

had quiet a few ideas posted over the years btw

[brazen lagoon]

Sims better but how about the feeling

[royal lantern]

most of them dont work cus of IC 🙂

[cunning nest]

I know what you mean. Some Times even cr is the problem

[brazen lagoon]

Aight lets get another 5% aura buff ...

[cunning nest]

Tryan u played bfa?

[royal lantern]

ofc

[royal lantern]

allright, 2things i brainstormed quick when i think about "aoe value from dot spreading"

poison bomb is not based on CP anymore, but instead a 10% chance for each active rupture/garrote, you dot more targets->more poison bombs

FoK gives 1cp and another cp for each target it hits that has Garrote on them, so you can get more guranteed cp in AoE situations for actively playing without making it a copy from shuriken storm

oh and look, IC makes both ideas shit again cus its results in instant 30bleeds

[clever sapphire]

Make fok do more dmg to targets that have bleeds on them so like 5% per bleed on target

Would be cool without ic

Too broken with ic

Sadge

[blazing jewel]

Remove ic

Make ap also replicate the bleeds on primary target to all hit by the ap shiv effect

Dm works in aoe now

[clever sapphire]

You just want to be broken dont you

[next arch]

Make mutilate actually instakill whoever you touch in a 100ft radius.

[blazing jewel]

Does that not sound like a lot of fun to play

Balance aside because that can be changed

That gameplay would be so fun

[royal lantern]

[next arch]

Lets just start with making kingsbane viable plz.

[gaunt moat]

You're probably gonna disagree, but you know what I would like to see from a sin reworked talent tree?
Two paths.
A poison path, and a bleed path.
In legion (with the simplified talent system) we had two builds that worked roughly equal.
One used exsanguinate and one used master poisoner and toxic blade.

[deft flicker]

This would be fun

[blazing jewel]

Imagine playing in legion

[clever sapphire]

Variety? We dont like those, neither blizzard how much their tierset forces specific talent builds

[deft flicker]

looks at HO and KiR being nearly identical yeah, forcing

[supple snow]

Not sure but I think maybe having our bleeds ( specially CT) do more dmg based on the number of targets hit with fan of knives, is a good start.

[clever sapphire]

i meant overall their tierset ideas, not specifically just rogue

make it so you do more dmg to targets that have bleeds on them, because the poison gets into the bleeding wounds making it do more dmg to the body

[empty lava]

any rashok tips for prog boys?

[clever sapphire]

kill it before it kills you

there was some shadowstep shenanigans, you can shadowstep on the boss midflight if you get the pool on you

[supple snow]

Get your dancing shoes on.

[gaunt moat]

1. use cloak during first intermission and at the end when you have 2 stacks/soaked a swirly
2. you can shadowstep boss when he's mid-air when he targets you for slam, so you won't get hit by the fire

[clever sapphire]

i got the shadowstep part correct atleast

[royal lantern]

wanna know what something is i wanna see in the general rogue tree?

an alternative choice to cloak that is just a generic % DR

cus man

cloak is the best and the worst at the same time

[gaunt moat]

like a passive DR?

[clever sapphire]

elusivness?

[gaunt moat]

what can possible compete with cloak? other than bubble it's the best defensive in the game

[subtle tundra]

this guy never heard of physical damage

[gaunt moat]

so you just want a pshysical cloak?

[subtle tundra]

did i say that?

[gaunt moat]

prertty much, yes

[subtle tundra]

0 reading comprehension

[clever sapphire]

gimme the same amount of leech that DH has

no more defensive CD needed

[pseudo nimbus]

I want Feint to cost 0 energy

[royal lantern]

nah, active

that replaces cloak

just a generic "take 15-20% reduced dmg for 6seconds" that everyone has

[gaunt moat]

feel free to eleborate instead of making demeaning comments

[royal lantern]

for those situations where cloak does legit nothing at all

[clever sapphire]

ah so a choice node on cloak

[subtle tundra]

i just said there's physical damage in the game

i didnt say i wanted anything

[clever sapphire]

sounds nieche but would be nice

[gaunt moat]

So another feint?

[clever sapphire]

dont lie to us, we all know you want mythic bacon

[subtle tundra]

no i dont cause im not resubbing anytime soon

😉

[clever sapphire]

but bacon is yummy

[blazing jewel]

Not when they make half of the raid mechanics go through it like this tier

[gaunt moat]

There's a couple of situations cloak is bad:

• Direct physical damage
• Undirect physical damage
• Physical DoTs (bleeds)
• Consistent damage / DoTs that keep reapplying

We've got evasion for the direct damage and feint for AoE.
And then Elusiveness for an active DR (fuck that) or cheat death for "oops".
DoTs are an issue.

The only substitute I could imagine for cloak, would be something that helps with DoTs, like reduced damage from DoT or Dot removal.
And its still gonna be a hard sell cause cloak usually does that, so it will have to be very specific kind of dots.