assassination

[sand totem]

240 haste isn't that bad, don't think the boots slow you

[waxen pagoda]

Ok so next week I save the shadowflame thing to cratf the boots

and then belt👌🏼

thank you!

I thought BiS crafted gear was dagger>boots>=shoulder

[spice spire]

No

Shoulder bugged rn

Or maybe it’s meant to function that way

[deft flicker]

Spore colony shoulders turned out to be worse than initially thought

[spice spire]

But it doesn’t do good dam

[waxen pagoda]

Ugh, ok, glad I asked

I use wowhead as reference

[deft flicker]

Things have been developing quite rapidly over the past 2 weeks, pins in this channel should have the freshest info

[austere fulcrum]

I use boots and wrist with toxi for embalishments

[storm belfry]

Always check the pins here

They get updated faster than the sites I believe

[keen spruce]

Pins much more up to date

[storm belfry]

No u

[keen spruce]

Especially early season when the guide writers don’t want to redo wow head every 48 hours

[waxen pagoda]

I didnt know about that! Thank you guys

[storm belfry]

Good afternoon king

[waxen pagoda]

I will check the pins next time ☺️

but there is plenty of things I dont understand about the class so I might ask again🥲

[spice spire]

GM
Hope you have a glorious Mother’s Day/push day

[deft flicker]

Feel free to do so if you have any troubles

[celest helm]

When rotation in pins it says “sepsis -> garrote with shiv” is that saying to sepsis and them garrote when sepsis falls off for the stealth buff?

Been only sub for a while trying to knock off my assa rust and the pin rotation seems confusing as i read it (im mostly a visual learner sorry)

[storm belfry]

Thanks homie. I’m working rn but will be doing whatever to make the wife extra happy today when I get off lmao

Hope your day goes amazing too

[brazen zodiac]

cx

[deft flicker]

Sepsis now grants 2 stealth ability usages: one at the start of the DoT and one at the end. The note means you use the start one for Garrote (and then use Shiv to boost Sepsis damage). The end one is up to you (either refresh garrote or use ambush)

[celest helm]

Oh i didnt know that thank you so much!

[lapis osprey]

Is there any difference in damage if I pandemic at diff times

Like if I press my buttons at 30% or 10% remaining does it change anything

[austere fulcrum]

It depends on the already applied dot, but in general pandemic is for making it longer

So basic answer is no

[lapis osprey]

I know I shouldn't pandemic enhanced garrotes with non enhanced garrotes

Does it matter if I pandemic 7cp rupture with a 5cp rupture or

[austere fulcrum]

It ll bleed as 5cp

[lapis osprey]

So I'm supposed to let my 7cp rupture fall off before I put another one, like garrote?

[deft flicker]

As long as you’re doing it below 30% nothing changes

I guess it matters with Exsang (since you want exsanged DoTs to be as long aspossible to maximize benefits) and enhanced garrotes

[lapis osprey]

Yeah I'm not playing with exsang yet, appreciate the tip though

When I get my irideus I'll need it

[austere fulcrum]

Yes,

[deft flicker]

5cp rupture will carry over less duration from an already applied rupture than 7cp one (pandemic window will be shorter)

[austere fulcrum]

Arent we playing with sepsis now tho? ( i personally prefer exsa too)

[lapis osprey]

Saw some people sim more with both

And whacky stuff like remove cttc or going 1/3 zoldyck

[random fossil]

what talents you guys running on m+?

[royal lantern]

sublety

cus assa this season

[lapis osprey]

LMAO

[royal lantern]

with dungeons where every 2nd boss mechanic is "totem spawns that needs to be killed in 6 seconds"

is not really a thing

🙂

[keen spruce]

Sub is crankin with big pulls. OL feels pretty good too atm for totem swaps

[safe swift]

what item do we want to craft?

the toxic boots?

[keen spruce]

Daggie

And slimes boots

Slimey

If you find a good m+ dagger randomly then boots this week ig. But dagger will be bis my until sark then it’s a bis offhand. So you can’t really go wrong with it either

[lapis osprey]

I'm the only rogue in my guild

All daggers get funneled to me

[safe swift]

next week we can raft both i guess

boots and dagger

[brazen zodiac]

feelsgoodman

[keen spruce]

We have 2 but one was gone when we did heroic kaz so I go 2 of those Daggies

I’m campaigning to just delay my tier to get the first bomb dispenser lol

[storm belfry]

Same

The other one swapped to priest when I joined

[brazen fern]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Crit >= Mastery > Haste > Versatility
Note: In high mythic+ keys, you may want more Versatility to survive. While you may see this on high end players gear, this is generally worse DPS. For pure DPS, Versatility is mostly avoided.

[undone eagle]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1101788562527096882/image.png?width=1621&height=615

[undone eagle]

aight so crit mastery i just w/e , just sim

[proud basin]

does anyone know if there is a new m+ build or is it still just the IC DTB?

[proper tapir]

To be clear, pandemic is based on the duration of the dot you are about to apply. Once you apply rupture you can forget about how many CPs you used to cast it. You pandemic at 30% or less of the new rupture's duration but you never let rupture drop unless it's exsanged.

[proper tapir]

Same one, or the AP/DTB builds in whysper's sheet... Or go sub

[proud basin]

oh i didnt see the AP/DTB in the sheet

i have been going sub for m+ but wasnt sure if there was a new build for assassin

[lean fossil]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[proper tapir]

They are at the bottom, it's like "cleave" builds but it has DS sims so you can use that to compare

[proud basin]

gotcha. Thank you

[sullen hollow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wsXpyUuHymGo1NcMVMffE2

just got curve and got my 4set

[gaunt moat]

holy shit, was on amalgamation heroic
Had 6 blindside procs in a row
i thought my UI broke or something

[brazen zodiac]

only 6? cx

[cunning nest]

no I swear it procs more often a noticable chunk

[steel ridge]

The venom rush effect

[gaunt moat]

Feels like they increased blindside to 50% or something

[high nacelle]

40% under 35% target health it does chain a fair amount

[gaunt moat]

I didn't even know about that lol

[spice spire]

Spell Data says no I’ve looked weekly

[midnight spire]

anyone tried Shadowflame-Tempered Armor Pat in m+?

[gaunt moat]

Feels > data

Any bomb dispenser tips or s it just send on CD?

[storm onyx]

Is it instant cast?

[gaunt moat]

yes

[storm onyx]

Kk thanks

[unborn sierra]

!Whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gaunt moat]

i just macro'd it to envenom

[keen spruce]

[steel ridge]

Thats the way

[tawny pike]

i have 200 whelpling crests but ran out of flightstones... can't we exchange it somehow?

[small rover]

are normal parses always low in the beggining of new season? im doing like 80K and only getting blues

[gaunt moat]

Bomb dispenser kinda anoying to use with grieftorch (or any other on use trinket) it puts it on CD constantly when people die

can't wait to get rid of grieftorch

[small rover]

is 80K low for 416 iLvL?

[mental arch]

nice getting 3 crits of beacon on m amalg

[small rover]

😦

[subtle tundra]

lets go dude

first raid already benched on 2 mythic bosses

[lapis osprey]

4 set acquired 🙏🏿

Now I just need to learn how to play

[storm belfry]

[strange python]

Would it be better off holding spark till next week or craft boots asap since I got lucky with weps ? x)

[rocky ruin]

Mutilate, Envenom, FoK?, Rupture, Ambush

[rocky ruin]

If you hold it out that long wait for weekly

Otherwise weapon first

[strange python]

Hmm I guess I can wait

[keen spruce]

If you’re not crafting a wep then what would you be saving for?

[rocky ruin]

He can craft boots, wrist, neck, 447 weapon

[proper tapir]

This isn't really so straight forward, you're really coming down to the shortest kill times in normal which skews the results. If you want to improve then I suggest running a log in https://wowanalyzer.com/

[keen spruce]

We’ll yeah I mean if you’re not making a wep just make slimey boots

Idk why you’d wait for reset

[rocky ruin]

Bc he said he got lucky with weapon does he mean a 441 ilvl weapon or 437 ilvl weapon

[lapis osprey]

I'm gonna craft chest

I think

[rocky ruin]

If lower then craft weapon first

[rocky ruin]

Chest? Why

[keen spruce]

Trollin

[lapis osprey]

I have 4 set, set chest doesn't have crit, I got a 441 crit mast belt with a socket and I'm keeping wrist slot for eng

[gusty mirage]

lol

[lapis osprey]

Chest will give me lots of stats with high ilvl and I can put patch on it

I don't have any other option guys... I'm sorry...

[gusty mirage]

no I'm laughing at people saying you're trolling for crafting something that's the best for your character

insane concept

[late surge]

stop trolling

not crafting bis list items is troll

[gusty mirage]

yeah why aren't you following the bis profile setup exactly?

smh

[lapis osprey]

My bad...

[late surge]

bro

do u have double last boss daggers

[gusty mirage]

how dare you try to make your character the best it can be in the situation you're in

[late surge]

ur disgusting me

[gusty mirage]

people stress out over the wildest things

[lapis osprey]

I'm solo rogue in my guild xd

All daggers to me

[gusty mirage]

same

[lapis osprey]

yum yum

[gusty mirage]

except we dropped 0 daggers

[lapis osprey]

LMAO

[late surge]

I swear m+ weapons are a myth

[gusty mirage]

nah bro ask fuu

"plenty of options"

[late surge]

Ive run over 50 fucking dungeons and they're still not showing up

[gusty mirage]

I've ran 15 underrots alone

[late surge]

Im running diurna dagger still

[gusty mirage]

0 dagger

lol

[late surge]

up

Im at 30

[gusty mirage]

if I didn't craft my 447

[late surge]

I think the smell got to me

[gusty mirage]

I'd be rocking brood dagger

[rocky ruin]

I was thinking the same with chest craft and patch etc but head is a option too cause socket

[late surge]

ive been running freehold/underrot

no weapons

no trinkets

[gusty mirage]

I got giga lucky w/ halls for the fragment

so I can't be too upset

[late surge]

same

KEK

did weekly twenty

got fragment

[gusty mirage]

rocking icon/halls

[lapis osprey]

My trinkets are lackluster af

[gusty mirage]

[keen spruce]

I just assumed he was Trollin cuz he gave no context lol

[late surge]

ur trolling

[gusty mirage]

@keen spruce look at this man's gear outside of trinkets

absolutely JUICED

[rocky ruin]

I get fucking daggers today no trinkets

[late surge]

WTB WEAPON

[keen spruce]

I’m down bad on trinkets too

Got 2 heroic kazara daggies

[late surge]

pugs are so bad sometimes it hurts

[keen spruce]

0pc tier

[gusty mirage]

3 manning first boss underrot

is an experience for sure

[late surge]

um

0 uptime crawg is also fun

[earnest remnant]

[late surge]

bc people dont soak

🙂

[gusty mirage]

if the key is low enough

I don't bother

tricks the tank

[late surge]

I only do 19s

[gusty mirage]

and use the ticks as funnel

healer issue at this point

[brazen zodiac]

[late surge]

fuck getting a weapon and it not being 431

after all these shitty dungeons

I cant

[gusty mirage]

I'm low key wanting to run UR in outlaw loot spec

[late surge]

I am

[gusty mirage]

just to troll our DH/Monk/Enhance

[late surge]

its not worth

TRUST

[gusty mirage]

because I'll never play outlaw

ever

[oak sky]

Boss 3 of underrot is such a banger

[late surge]

dw

it wont drop anyways

xdd

[earnest remnant]

our first +20 naltharius

i looted forgestorm

infront of our tank

[earnest remnant]

xD

[late surge]

madge

[gusty mirage]

this is my life rn stealthi

[brazen zodiac]

theres two kinds of people in this world

the people who want to roll outlaw loot to give it to the pug dh, and the person who rolls outlaw loot to not give it to the dh

[late surge]

u didnt go slimmies?

[brazen zodiac]

u evil man :C

[gusty mirage]

testing something on my alt rn

[late surge]

ah

slimmies is the wave

[gusty mirage]

LOOK AT THIS JUICER

[late surge]

almost better weapons than mer

[oak sky]

Ur alting rogue?

[late surge]

[rocky ruin]

Damn oxi that tmog is like minus dps

[gusty mirage]

I love how every mog looks absolutely ridiculous on tauren

[oak sky]

Time for splits

[gusty mirage]

bro this is my alt I was leveling with gathering

[oak sky]

Blackvneck when

[late surge]

I used to run naked tauren with the shadowlands pre order head

[gusty mirage]

I needed to test the toxic thorn boots

[late surge]

KEK

[gusty mirage]

so I grabbed my 5 free sparks

and decided to have this character chilling

to try out dif embellishments

[gusty mirage]

already did them nerd

blackvneck has a full heroic vault

[oak sky]

What tier does oxxi have

[gusty mirage]

4pc

[oak sky]

Bru

[late surge]

oxxi is a juicer or what

[gusty mirage]

kinda

[oak sky]

My little juicer

[late surge]

HMMGE

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

would be more of a juicer if daggers existed

[oak sky]

So why is crafted bis OH

[gusty mirage]

I need to do 2 more 20s

because it's 447

[late surge]

do u like my mog oxi

[oak sky]

Isnt the 450 dagger crit mast now

[late surge]

is it very sexy

[gusty mirage]

you think everyone's got the whispyr touch?

to get 2 max ilvl daggers in 1 week?

[oak sky]

Obviously not

[gusty mirage]

I didn't get the brood dagger until 2 weeks before 10.1

lol

[oak sky]

Same

[gusty mirage]

I killed brood 12 times

[oak sky]

I did not

I killed it 4 times or smth

[late surge]

Staying on brood dagger until next patch

[oak sky]

I think i got the dagger from vault

[gusty mirage]

you too?

then I got my 2nd brood dagger

in my vault

[oak sky]

I quit for the first brood kill but every kill after that i was in for

[gusty mirage]

I took it for funsies

out of principal

[oak sky]

I took 424 helm instead of brood dagger from my last vault

For transmog

[late surge]

only good item I got from my 30 underrots

Kinda insane thougn ngl

[earnest remnant]

[gusty mirage]

I actually dropped those same bracers

and gave them to the healer

cause I had 437s from raid with a socket

vers mastery

[late surge]

KEK

[gusty mirage]

but it is what it is

[gusty mirage]

WHY DO YOU HATE ME

[earnest remnant]

gimme trinkets

i need them

[gusty mirage]

you don't have a 421 icon?

[earnest remnant]

Rashok to much health

need borrowed power to kill him

[gusty mirage]

have you tried playing demo warlock

[earnest remnant]

our locks dont have the trinket

[gusty mirage]

ok

[earnest remnant]

we got so shitty trinkets

[gusty mirage]

have you tried playing evoker?

@earnest remnant should I craft the shoulders

can I even craft them with s1 sparks?

[earnest remnant]

no clue

[gusty mirage]

sure can

[grim tangle]

so I just got fragment and I feel like it's not simming properly, mutilate doesn't seem to reduce the stacks in the sims

[languid pier]

What's better for the crafted bracer's?

Crit/Vers or Crit/mastery

[balmy condor]

I believe that’s simply because of the coding on mutilate

[grim tangle]

okay but mutilate clearly remove a stack in the game, so isn't the trinket way worse than the sims say

[sullen hollow]

i see so many ppl playing exsang sbs still

[small rover]

why are my parses on norm so low? im 416iLvL i thought theyd be higher with the dps

[tacit otter]

like every guild ran normal, so the killtimes are really good + people are stacked from last tier

[small rover]

so is this DPS acceptable for 416.4 iLvL?

[keen spruce]

U killed the bosses

[tacit otter]

thats hard to evaluate isolated like that

[languid pier]

You are being compared to everyone playing Assassination

[keen spruce]

Seems pretty acceptable

[languid pier]

In that bosses

[limber lion]

Parses refers to how your performance compares to other people. Just having high gear or whayever doesn't mean you get a good parse

You gotta play the spec right as well

[small rover]

okay cool thank you, usually theyre like 80-90's so it threw me off when i saw blues lol

[limber lion]

Ans 416 aint that much honestly

No point even looking at parses

[small rover]

agree to disagree its what i like to do in raids

[limber lion]

Yes but super pointless if you're so behind in gear

[keen spruce]

He means there’s no point rn cuz of gear lv

[small rover]

ahhhhhhhhhh

[limber lion]

It's like someone with 200 ilvl wondering why they parse grey

Kinda expected

[small rover]

lol makes sense

[tacit otter]

i do the same, its cool to see good numbers but no reason to pull conclusions out of it

[small rover]

only been playing for this expac

[limber lion]

I was a big parse fiend as well, no shame in it

[small rover]

PINK PINK NUMBERS = SERATONIN

[limber lion]

At least got something to work towards up to a certain point

[small rover]

you think i could start heroic with these dps numbers or would i hold back groups?

[oak sky]

[keen spruce]

You could do heroic

[limber lion]

I would get the ilvl higher with m+

But sure you can

[gusty mirage]

heroic is a joke up until echo of neltharion

[small rover]

sweeeet im gonna start in a bit, lost ALL the roles to another rogue he rolled like 90+ on every tier piece

[oak sky]

pugs will have trouble anyway

[small rover]

big sadgew

[oak sky]

its in the script

[gusty mirage]

as long as you're semi coordinated

[small rover]

thank you all for being helpful 🙂

[gusty mirage]

everything literally falls over if you do the mechanics

[near valley]

Bringing out the old PfP I see

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

trying to find me a new discord kitten, you interested?

[near valley]

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

I have a confession

I went night elf so I can grief warlocks in keys

and I swap my spec to outlaw every underrot so I can troll 1hand agi users

[limber lion]

"if" is a dangerous condition in pugs

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

you should see my warlock's parses

[oak sky]

say 1 hail mary and you're forgiven

[limber lion]

Amy bilecrawgs

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

Big

[gusty mirage]

412 ilvl gaming

with the bis caster trinket ever

yeah the lesson I learned

is never let me play a caster

ever

[oak sky]

cant wait to get a polearm

[marble hemlock]

oxi put on his wand and wizard hat

[versed mica]

Hey Seliathan I have a question

[earnest remnant]

You're a Wizard Adam

[marble hemlock]

im scared

what is it?

[versed mica]

When are you going to update icy veins?

[marble hemlock]

for what?

sepsis?

[versed mica]

Idk I just know whispyr wants you to update it

[marble hemlock]

for what

@balmy condor

explain yourself

oh

i see now

i panicked for a second

[versed mica]

Pranked

[thin gate]

guys i messed up, i accepted the liam quest after getting my 1500 rep done

[marble hemlock]

well played whispyr

[thin gate]

it the rep grindable in any way besides of world quests?

i need 1500 for the spark

[marble hemlock]

you can just get the spark from other sources if you havent gotten it from the quest yet, or get 2 next week

[thin gate]

oh ok good

[marble hemlock]

we had some people get it on their first raid boss kill for example

[thin gate]

so i can just spam m+ and get it?

ok good thing, good thing

[versed mica]

There are the little world events but idk if there are enough to get 1500

[thin gate]

i get like 400 rn

checked that already

[marble hemlock]

its not guaranteed ofc, but probably better than grinding worldquests 75rep at a time. some of the campaign quests give a 1.5k on use token for example

which you can just use to finish the quest instantly

[thin gate]

yes i was a big brain i clicked on all tokens and accpeted the quest afterwards LOL

[versed mica]

Also might wanna ask this in WoW general next time since this isn't sin related

No biggie tho

[marble hemlock]

anyway, bedge time

[versed mica]

That's a funny way of spelling icy veins

[balmy condor]

u complain I didn't mention you

now you complain I do

can't do anything right

[frigid pilot]

stupid trinkets

[jagged dragon]

yo guys do i want to use the slimy expulsion boots and the toxic patch or boots and the spore colony shoulders?

[frigid pilot]

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/really-though-justin-rtype00-stare-gif-16894445

[balmy condor]

never shoulders, either boot is fine

[jagged dragon]

ty

[tacit otter]

is it weird that my sim doesnt choose the shadowflame enchant over sophic even tho i replaced cowl? thought bomb isnt enough to proc

[balmy condor]

is it a 421 ring

[tacit otter]

ye

[balmy condor]

dunno

happy for you

don't need a 300k enchant

[tacit otter]

it was like 30k on my server lol

but with sepsis instead of sbs its 400dps ahead, why is it different when i swap to sepsis? weird shit

[minor valve]

Is timing all +12s enough for KSM?

[balmy condor]

probably need all 16/17's

[keen spruce]

i think s1 was like half and half 16/17 across both weeks

or somethin

or just do 4x 20s and 4x 19s this week

[balmy condor]

I need a couple more 20's for vault tomorrow

[storm forum]

I need to stop choking in 18s for vault tomorrow.

[tacit otter]

any general tips on underrot 2nd boss exceptof standing in corner baiting the charge? the "intermission" always messes all up, tried plenty 19/20

[hybrid meadow]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[viscid spear]

It's just stacking on tank to bait Charge into wall and avoiding Indigestion
Otherwise it's in your healer's hands

[craggy oak]

Split the room into quarters, each have your own "zone" to go stomp worms during tantrum

And dont try run all way back to the bones after tantrum

[balmy condor]

Save sprint/step for it

Press feint

[gusty mirage]

for KSM in two weeks? You'll need all 15s at least

[balmy condor]

Gg

[craggy oak]

Bait charge to the bones to get boss back over there, sometimes it can be tight after tantrum

[tacit otter]

so its just that, thought someone has some secret sauce

ty guys

[somber fractal]

is irideus fragment really oversimming by a lot? i just farmed it for 4 days straight

[cursive frost]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[lean fossil]

if we get the bomb trinket, we can replace the cowl right? since it will proc the eranog trinket?

[balmy condor]

It’s not oversimming at all to my knowledge

[balmy condor]

Sim question, it isn’t that easy

[lean fossil]

dang, i was hoping for an easy answer haha

[somber fractal]

oh i was just reading that the sims didnt have mutilate removing stacks from the trinket

[weak plover]

Is there a world where we afk for a few seconds after popping the fragment?

[balmy condor]

Maybe if you’re schizophrenic and the voices are distracting you from the game

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[weak plover]

[storm belfry]

[sweet dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-gif-26307682

[storm forum]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[storm forum]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

@shy pecan seeing "kevinbacon" pop up on my screen randomly while I'm swimming through a number soup is excellent thank you

[shy pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/kevin-bacon-footloose-smile-gif-26333049

[keen spruce]

are you going for 4 or 8?

[balmy condor]

8

[keen spruce]

well after i do my 4th i'll probably wanna do the same tbf

but it's a grind today

[shy pecan]

I’m glad someone can appreciate my in-game character name 🙂

[gaunt moat]

Oh yeah baybee, Rank 1

cough in realm cough

@misty kernel I'm coming for you!

[cursive frost]

is flowstone any good for us?

[balmy condor]

It’s awful

[somber fractal]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[sick aspen]

!ring

[keen spruce]

what server is this

i'm fightin for my life out here

highest time neltharus still an 11

[gaunt moat]

says under my name, tarren mill

[keen spruce]

got +15 for depleting that 19

o

me blind

i'm gonna get 2k with this at this rate

wait i did a 14

nvm

[gusty mirage]

how is trash deadlier than bosses

[vapid sierra]

any of you guys do wotlk classic on sin rogue

[dawn kelp]

No

Nobody

#classic-discussion

[vapid sierra]

ty

[mighty pine]

Stormrage

[arctic venture]

do we have a trinket list

[keen spruce]

bomb dispenser + beacon bis

harlans and fragment good

the rest are kinda bleh

[arctic venture]

even the NL one?

[wind condor]

What’s everyone’s week 1 total key count looking like? My gm is at fuckin 73 lol

[grim tangle]

32 is the optimal amount

[balmy condor]

I looked into it when a third person DM’d me, it is oversimming but shouldn’t be too major I think, simc devs working on a fix

Probably doesn’t move the needle much I would assume

[misty holly]

17 so far, only about half of them timed. Probably another 15 disbanded before completion.

all with pugs

[keen spruce]

where do you see your total keys ran

51 completed

[misty holly]

You just have to remember.

[keen spruce]

probably... half again as many abandoned

[keen spruce]

sub and outlaw like the NL one ig

but i thought the tooltip is overstating damage cuz it's reduced by armor

[gusty mirage]

I lost track

[oak sky]

25 idk

[wet tusk]

do i wait until 4p to replace the vault tier with aberrus?

[dreamy quail]

sorry if I missed this in a pin but do we drop 4pcs for 2.2 pcs or do we keep old tier until we get 4 pcs of new tier set?

[balmy condor]

wow

double kill

[hollow river]

jinx

[balmy condor]

you replace 4pc with 2pc usually cause the ilvl is higher

[wet tusk]

[gaunt moat]

So today was first raid I tried sepsis.
Feels a lot better than exsang, simply for the fact I don't have to sync anything except waiting with shiv for like 10 seconds sometimes.

[gusty mirage]

idk or care if it's 1% behind or 1% ahead

I enjoy it a lot more

[acoustic geyser]

I feel like my haste is probably too low which contributes to me suffering on energy more than I should. It's currently at 4% haste - I'm doing it poorly?

[gusty mirage]

why do you feel that way

[acoustic geyser]

I often have no energy

[gusty mirage]

that's just assassination homie

[wet tusk]

what do you take instead of exsang?

[gusty mirage]

realistically you'd need like 40-50% haste for it to not feel slow

[acoustic geyser]

Is it supposed to be this bad though? I've noticed that in other people's logs that dudes are hitting more envenoms than I am yet I'm definitely not having the energy to get enough mutilate to get more envenoms out

[gusty mirage]

are you using your thistle tea when you're short on energy?

[turbid heath]

Do all of you gamers still play with Exsang?

[acoustic geyser]

It's pretty much always on CD
0/3 regularly

[turbid heath]

Or you dropping it like it's hot

[gusty mirage]

do you have a log by chance?

[acoustic geyser]

Yeah, let me grab some from last week

[gusty mirage]

that way I'd be able to provide more than just generic advice

[acoustic geyser]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yPXbtkhVmpGzqA1n#fight=38

I looked at what I could but I'm not particularly skilled at understanding where I'm goofing it

[gaunt moat]

Lightweight shiv and Venom rush
drop exsang and improved poisons

[gusty mirage]

ngl your energy usage is good lol

[acoustic geyser]

Oh, it simply feels bad af

[gusty mirage]

your bleed uptimes are superb

[acoustic geyser]

[gusty mirage]

yeah it's just the way the spec plays

like you wasted less than 60 energy total in that 3 minutes

rotationally everything looks fine

if you want something that feels a bit speedier

you could try the new sepsis build

it may be a little less damage for you

but you get venom rush which helps with those downtimes in between tea charges & deathmark

[acoustic geyser]

Yeah, I was mostly concerned that I was goofing something pretty big that I'm doing less skills than other guys in my ilvl range

Thank you!

[gusty mirage]

you're doing well, you're just being held back DPS wise by your gear

but that'll sort itself out in a few weeks

and then you'll be blasting

[acoustic geyser]

Yeah, gotta do some actual m+

[gusty mirage]

god speed, it's a rough week

friendly advice: avoid neltharian's lair

[agile osprey]

its not fun, my group got a NL for our 20

[spice spire]

Wait

Huh

[agile osprey]

brute forcing that was terrible

[spice spire]

How long?!

[agile osprey]

ehh like and hour and 20

[gaunt moat]

Look at that Blindisde procs I had today. this is when i thought my UI broke cause it just didn't go away.

[gilded oasis]

we 2 chested our 18 but shit hurt

[gusty mirage]

buddy

[spice spire]

Nah I mean that screen shot

Brubby

[balmy condor]

Oxi’s lucky he even managed to finish it

[gusty mirage]

I was called a crazy person

[spice spire]

I had a disaster neltharus 18

[spice spire]

Yeah and I’ll do it again

[gusty mirage]

buddy

I know what I get into in neltharian's

first key of the season

started off with a BANGER

[balmy condor]

I’ve had a ton of nelth lairs just die at second boss, and then die on third boss

[gilded oasis]

wasn't 5 days ago before the nerfs too tho

[gusty mirage]

yes

[agile osprey]

• bear tank

it was bad

[balmy condor]

And I’ve had a ton of brackenhides just die on first boss

[gusty mirage]

fun dungeon

[gilded oasis]

yeeeaah

[gusty mirage]

great experience

[spice spire]

That boss can actually eat my cock

[gusty mirage]

just vanish/meld the fixate

idiot

[spice spire]

Tree mouth is a little spooky

[gusty mirage]

just cloak the gulp

smh

[balmy condor]

Tree is fine

[gusty mirage]

but friendly advice

wait until AFTER the tank mechanic

to cloak it

because he for sure spits you out right in front of it

[spice spire]

Bruh the random ass damage from gbashtooth ain’t it

[spice spire]

Learned that

[gusty mirage]

you can meld it

time to join me in night elf land boo boo

[balmy condor]

Treemouth probably the easiest boss in there tbh

[spice spire]

Possibly

[gusty mirage]

nah

hunter one is easier

[spice spire]

Idk third boss and final boss now piss easy

[gusty mirage]

assuming people aren't apes with the traps

[spice spire]

Post nerfs final boss actually free

[gusty mirage]

you'd think that

but I had a tank not move out of the tornado

and get 4 stacks

and die

[spice spire]

Skill issue in tank

[balmy condor]

Final boss ain’t entirely free

But yeh

[gusty mirage]

did you know the alchemy buff thing in brackenhide doesn't work on that mechanic?

[spice spire]

I had a freehold where the tank refused to move after having the entire melee taken up by green shit in an all melee group

[gusty mirage]

almost as useful as the mushrooms in halls of infusion

that you get AFTER all the frogs

[spice spire]

Then tanked final@boss by the gold in an all melee group so the add could pad on us

Was a banger

[balmy condor]

Idk how they haven’t neutered that dog gashtooth

Rest of the dungeon is fine tbh

[spice spire]

Yeah same

Also

[gusty mirage]

yeah gashtooth is uh

something

[spice spire]

You can reflect gadhtooths tank thing

And blow him up

If you have a warrior tank

[gusty mirage]

can you reflect your healer getting his asshole eaten by gashtooth?

CAN YOU REFLECT THAT BUDDY?

[spice spire]

Nah

[gaunt moat]

https://tenor.com/view/african-wild-dog-laughing-lol-lmao-lmfao-gif-25873412

[spice spire]

But my garrotes were ticking for 100k

For a few seconds

Was wicked

[gusty mirage]

imagine playing assassination in keys still

when you can burst to 500k as sub

C tier spec btw

[spice spire]

I’m fighting the good fight man

Actual swamp ass tier

Spec

[gaunt moat]

don't have to imagine 😌

[gusty mirage]

I feel it in my giblets

quick clear of raid

then we raid log

[weak horizon]

Okay what the fuck is that first boss on BH

That gore fucker 1 shots me

Do I just have to react fast enough and evasion?

[gusty mirage]

yeah or save vanish for it

it's pretty ass

[keen spruce]

the grip on tree boss

definitely got nerfed

with the visual update

like massively

you can rp walk outta that thing now

[gusty mirage]

good

maybe they can nerf the mammoth in neltharus

or do they think that's a fine boss

[keen spruce]

brack is giga free now

[gusty mirage]

I mean

[keen spruce]

if you get first boss down

[gusty mirage]

outside of first boss

yeah

[keen spruce]

are you a gnashtooth killer or a tricktotem killer

[gusty mirage]

gnashtooth

always

[keen spruce]

i've been trying to preach the church of gnashtooth to these pugs

all week

[gusty mirage]

you put the motherfucker in the ground

[keen spruce]

it's been rough

[gusty mirage]

and the boss falls over

[spice spire]

Literally kill gnashtooth, kick trick totem.
Last boss is who cares lmfao

[slow tulip]

i finally switched to the sepsis build, sims same as the spikes/exsang, but no exsang, and also no BOX - finally a non cancer gameplay

[gloomy knoll]

Exsang haters have weak genes and your bloodlines shall perish in the tumultuous waves of time

[slow tulip]

i hope they'll add a sepsis icon

[slow tulip]

хахаххахаха

[shrewd plover]

hello guys, i drop Dragonfire Bomb Dispenser in NM, did i up iLVL instant ?

[dusty rivet]

Is there an updated build anywhere?

[jade abyss]

xD

[hexed basin]

is homeland raid horn sim bait? 428 ilvl simming higher than 415 puzzle box for me now, jsut barely but still

[royal lantern]

thats the uldaman trinket right?

[velvet nacelle]

you can only get half a spark every week right?

if you do both the rep and pvp quests you just get one half?

[hexed basin]

yessir

[royal lantern]

yeha, it sucks

dont use it

[royal lantern]

yes

[velvet nacelle]

so next week we finish our second one right?

[royal lantern]

yes

every 2 weeks you get a full spark

[woeful wigeon]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[woeful wigeon]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

TLDR: Why sepsis sucks for you (In Order of importance)

• If you want to play Sepsis, play it. If you don't, don't.
• If you want to play Exsang, play it. If you don't, don't.
• You're comparing Exsang to no Exsang
• No aberrus tier
• On Use trinkets like box/fragment
• Lots of Vers from outlaw

My Sim Spreadsheet with builds: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
The Data for the Sepsis Investigation (I will not be explaining it, but if you want to look at the data for yourself go for it): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQNFF1oJbXbSDN_218Wj-aiIdZ3rRwNYi0AGI4JeACBeo4nYH_0etBO0348Nb3JJWUZIANGQQ0k3YS_/pubhtml

Some longer notes:

• Mastery/Haste has a minor gain for Sepsis/SBS. Vers/Crit affects both equally
• The common on-use benefits SBS more, while passives benefit sepsis (this is most likely timing related due to how spread out sepsis is)
• the new 2 and 4 piece benefit sepsis greatly. Most of the benefit from the 2 piece comes in the form of Exsang just being worse
• Exsang loves gear, and SBS loves exsang. I don't want to put "scaling" back into the psyche of the community again to use as a meaningless buzzword, but in this case with stuff so close together, it has to be addressed. The scaling on exsang is just simply better. BiS profiles like the ones I run on my spreadsheet don't account for stuff like this, because it's just the best that's available, and nothing else. But for a normal player with differences in gear, still progging, not getting tier, not getting bomb/beacon for example, still running a stat on use, everything changes. I want to reiterate. This isn't an important factor OVERALL, just in this specific case with 5-6 builds within 1-2%, minor shifts can have a big effect.
• But the biggest thing I saw, didn't require any data analysis. There are a ton of people who sent in top gears trying to go from bone spike WITH exsang, to sepsis WITHOUT exsang. And I get it, but that doesn't help. A lot of the people who saw gains from the get go and sent in profiles sent them in where both are WITHOUT exsang. I'm not saying that magically sepsis is better if you just compare no exsang to no exsang, but it is a pretty sizable increase over non-exsang in that comparison. Just because Exsang isn't as impactful and the difference is small enough to run something else instead, doesn't mean that it has no significance. It seems from the submissions that a lot of people ran with exsang in vault because it was too big of a loss otherwise, and are now trying to move over to sepsis without it. That already starts sepsis behind 0.5, 0.7, sometimes 1 full percent behind. Sepsis might be the better build, but if you're starting it off behind, it's gotta catch up first, and that simply isn't possible on some of these profiles, especially mixed in with the other factors at play.

"But is it good"
yes. On 34/36 of the profiles I tested, Sepsis was beating SBS on its comparable counterpart. I also think execute has a good value this tier, and one of the highest simming sepsis builds actually drops shrouded in order to take 3/3 Zoldyck. While that might not show up on sims as a gain, it is one of those esoteric victories that people like to hold over other builds. Just like I said in the TLDR up top, if you want to play sepsis, play sepsis. If you don't want to play Sepsis, don't play Sepsis. If you want to play exsang, play exsang. If you don't, you don't. All these builds are so close to each other, you as a player have the choice in your palm for the situation and playstyle you prefer. That's what the talent rework SHOULD be. That's the beauty of the rework, giving more choice. Regardless of how it sims, or what your preference is, this should be celebrated as a good thing. Having more options is not a sign of failed tuning, it's a sign of player control. It's not perfect, but in my opinion it's close enough. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

(Sim Rotation gets looked at next)

[balmy condor]

bed time yepge

[keen spruce]

[royal lantern]

words

and pins

[steel ridge]

Good stuff

[vestal wren]

[silver sail]

This is such a good and time consuming work. Thanks for doing this for us so I can pick up and run a build with confidence!

[balmy condor]

Your welcome

[normal mist]

Actually cooking so early

I love it

[blazing jewel]

bed time right

[silver sail]

Look forward to the faq update when you get to it, so I can make informed decision

[normal mist]

Thanks whispyr

[balmy condor]

[blazing jewel]

I’m going to put that entire faq into an uwu translator and send it when you least expect it

[vestal wren]

you can !uwu message in #bot-spam , tho it is limited to 280 chars at the time

[balmy condor]

No you can’t he’s lying don’t try it we don’t need to do that

[blazing jewel]

[balmy condor]

scana resist the voices

[blazing jewel]

Asking for a friend how do we remove the character limit

[vestal wren]

you can't, i put it for a reason

[blazing jewel]

@balmy condor my raid lead said the dispel adds on experiments are “prio” do I send sepsis and exsanguinate on one?

[balmy condor]

[blazing jewel]

[balmy condor]

Play dtb+ap ct

AP enjoyers

[blazing jewel]

Hell no I’m a black powder enjoyer

[versed mica]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1105844033504432198/sepsismybeloved.gif

Tldr of whispyr's post:

[balmy condor]

You get the hell out of my channel

[blazing jewel]

😡

[steel spire]

But can we sepsis with sub

[slim hamlet]

Yes

[blazing jewel]

I’ll have you know I sat at a training dummy for 3 hours relearning sin in preparation of this tier only to play sub for the 3rd tier in a row

[balmy condor]

||perfecto is that you||

[nimble brook]

Same

[solar bramble]

why does assassination rogue . . . have so many skills to use now lol

[raven knoll]

Just talent out of them lol

[slim hamlet]

just use a foot pedal lol

[solar bramble]

talenting out isn't really an option. lose too much dps. though it can probably get used to

[vestal wren]

you can, its just not good

[keen spruce]

3/3 zoldyk u say. my hobo talents are slowly makin a comback. only 2% more

[solar bramble]

how . . . . do you remove bonespike from a dummy :(. . . even changing spec doesn't lol

[keen spruce]

run far away

like the AH

[solar bramble]

lol

[keen spruce]

then go back

only way i've seen that works

lol

[normal mist]

Hearthstone and go to other dummies

[solar bramble]

lol

[limber lion]

Let's goo

[slow tulip]

thx for the sepsis icon 🥂 ♥️ @balmy condor

[limber lion]

Damn Exsang is higher on the ranking so Sepsis won't show

I think it's time to bid Exsang farewell

[vestal wren]

changed it, should now be highest prio

[limber lion]

Eyy let's go

[marble hemlock]

No

[rocky ruin]

free keybind what im gonna do

[grim jay]

bind pickpocket

[blazing jewel]

Bind sepsis

[random fossil]

how do i get sepsis icon

i forgor

[rocky ruin]

Sepsis is like sbs they share a button

[random fossil]

nvm

[keen spruce]

my hobo talents are starting to look functional again

just a worse version of 3/3zoldyk sepsis now

with sbs

[gaunt moat]

Difference is now really close for me.
The secret was to make exsang worse by dropping puzzle box

[spice spire]

You really don’t know who you’re speaking to

[keen spruce]

certified

[spice spire]

Shmeeps infamous puzzlebox truther (it’s bad)

[keen spruce]

see this is a double curve ball though cuz all of those sims are with puzzlebox

cuz i can't find a trinket to save my life

and sims don't show the 400 resets i get with grieftorch on prog

[spice spire]

I’ve only replaced one piece of gear so far

[keen spruce]

i've run 55 keys

no trinky

but i got a cloak and some sneakers until i make slimeys next week

and upgraded possibly the worst neck in existence

[gaunt moat]

I lost count of how many halls of infusions I ran.
I hope to be released from that hell hole in the near future.

But i did get bomb dispenser today

[keen spruce]

oo nice

yo OCE gamers are not qualified to run hall

s

i depleted +18s for like 4 hours tonight

and they were all panicking the whole way through

one of the most cozy keys during the day

[gaunt moat]

now i'm dying to replace grieftorch, cause bomb dispenser and grief really suck together.
bomb dispenser keep putting it on cooldown, and you don't know when it's gonna get reset

[keen spruce]

can you get away with usin icon?

[gaunt moat]

don't have it

[keen spruce]

or are you gonna gulag yourself in freehold now lol

do you just delay your first bomb if you run fragment + bomba?

or do you delay your fragment for 10s

[gaunt moat]

uh wtf, Drogbar rocks sims higher for me than bomb dispenser

And i had one drop and traded it away 🥲

fuck

Loaded dice also sims higher than bomb dispenser. i thought bomb dispenser was BIS 😬

[earnest citrus]

Drogbar Rocks are so random, sometimes they deal so much damage lol.

[earnest citrus]

same ilvl?

[gaunt moat]

yes

[grim jay]

replace drogbar rocks with my dungeon farm pugs

and you got another truth

[languid pier]

Loaded dice is RNG tbh

You can get a lot of mastery

[royal lantern]

can confirm

had 1,6k statprocs yesterday

feelsBfAman

[languid pier]

But is BiS from mythic

Also the Raid one can get higher ilvl

[green juniper]

9 normal 5 hc, bunch of m+ later i have 0 drop…

[subtle tundra]

its ok

i dropped loot

its tier set pieces/fingers/bad trinkets

so i cant wear them anyways

👍

[hallow sonnet]

Assa representation from Kush on Sark now

[brazen lantern]

[terse orchid]

Same, my offhand dagger after crafting mainhand 🥲

[steel ridge]

Somehow execute seems to matter

[brazen lantern]

or maybe cause the boss has a haste buff

[tiny ember]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[sand lichen]

Hes playing old build tho

[rocky ruin]

maybe kush saw the pin and realizie deep in he is sepsis execute boy

[hallow sonnet]

Mm they also swapped over to Arms for warriors

[rocky ruin]

i think they neeed the execute dmg from these class

[hallow sonnet]

And off an evoker for another dk

[rocky ruin]

wouldnt suprise me if they going for spirest

spriest

i would drop a mage for spriest

[normal mist]

Only piece of loot i got so far was 1st boss bracers (HC) haste vers and they aren't better than my 421 crafted ones, not even at 437

[hallow sonnet]

Still, rather nice to see all 3 specs having been played this week

[rocky ruin]

yes if you can explain your RL that for execute that assa is just stronger and doesn't does not less dmg than sub

[steel ridge]

Kushs gear is disgusting

[remote oak]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[peak bobcat]

Didn’t last long

[hallow sonnet]

Yeah, was going to write that earlier but didn't want to sour the chat :P

[steel ridge]

Tbf the boss looks alot like a sub angle

[gusty mirage]

Seems like a non-rogue angle

Rogue doesn’t feel particularly strong on sark

A lot of rot damage and they gut everything that made us tanky

[steel ridge]

[gusty mirage]

Like 90% of boss mechanics just pierce through cloak

Very cool

[steel ridge]

Oof

10.1.5 tho

Overdosing

[gusty mirage]

Idk I’d like crimson vial to be buffed

Even if it’s a talent to get it back to where it was in BFA

It already costs energy and a gcd

[steel ridge]

And off gcd

vial is a meme ability idk

[gusty mirage]

I’d like elusiveness to be unnerfed as well

I just fucking hate how I feel like I just die now

To everything

[frigid kestrel]

I remember when there was talks about pickpocketing things that you could use to buff Crimson Vial

That’s would have been dope

[gray crest]

Didn't they wanna do shit like make it so you could pick pocket to buff crimson vial, so they nerfed to compensate

[gusty mirage]

Any day now, shadowlands is gonna be sick

[gray crest]

The didn't add the pick pocket mechanic

[gusty mirage]

Partly, they also nerfed all self healing game wide

[gray crest]

Damn beat me to it lol

[gusty mirage]

Except for DH for some reason

They got to keep theirs

[steel ridge]

Dh selfheal is mad

and wl ofc

[gusty mirage]

Warlock is actually significantly less tanky than they were in SL

[frigid kestrel]

I don’t even know why I get excited when they lay out rogue ideas anymore

[gloomy knoll]

If they keep up with this no immunity shit then yea we kinda boned

All we got is feint and need to hope that’s enough to save us

[frigid kestrel]

Raid utility like bringing back smoke bomb was another one

[gusty mirage]

But SL was ridiculous

[gusty mirage]

You have atrophic bro

It’s real raid utility I promise

[gloomy knoll]

Battle shout rally execute best tuning rogue is good guys

[gusty mirage]

What’s that? Most raid damage that rots you is environmental so atrophic doesn’t actually do anything?

Shucks

[steel ridge]

thats so bad idk

no words

just change it motw

[frigid kestrel]

I can’t remember what the rest were

[steel ridge]

[frigid kestrel]

But I’m sure it was more

[gusty mirage]

Doesn’t feel good when you hear healers discuss sac/time dilate targets and your rogue is one of them lol

[gusty mirage]

We already have smoke bomb in the group, they just made it purple and gave it to demon hunter

[frigid kestrel]

Aww damn you right fam

[gusty mirage]

They stole our smoke bomb

[frigid kestrel]

It’s all good tho, we got mass soothe

Surly that’s worth something, right?

[gusty mirage]

So true bestie

[rocky ruin]

I thought it makes us the utility

[gusty mirage]

It only cost us build diversity

[rocky ruin]

Don't worry this weeks a blue post appear says the deserve rogue change including only we don't like exsang so its cd is now 4min

[misty holly]

I bet the rogue changes weren't in first ptr build because there are so many they couldn't make everyone download them all at once.

So it's staggered out over multiple weeks.

[gusty mirage]

Surely

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/-gif-5526730

[rocky ruin]

i mean they have them ready maybe this week, but i don't except if they going out that we get tuning cause give tuning live and nerf after it arrives would be strange idk

[frigid kestrel]

Just a few more %5 aura buffs away from being decent. Am I right?

[gloomy knoll]

It’s not the dps rogue just sucks talent wise and gameplay wise in certain areas

[gusty mirage]

I think gameplay wise it’s fine

Sub could use a shift back to dance windows being the end all be all, but besides that I think all 3 specs play well

Esp now with the sepsis build you can drop exsang completely

Assassination plays smoother than it has all expac

Our talent trees just need some serious refreshing

Problem is Realz killed it with the trees early on and we had some of the best trees in the game, and then everyone else got reworks to their trees

And we went from one of the best to outdated real quick

[rocky ruin]

Yeah but both trees got issue on there own

[vestal wren]

to bad its so weak on sub

[rocky ruin]

how so?

[gusty mirage]

Yeah they do but contextually when the trees we have were out, they were giga

[gusty mirage]

My 424 grieftorch is better than fragment for my sub lol

And my fragment is 441

[rocky ruin]

damn

[vestal wren]

you don't have any big cooldown to align to it

its quite bad sadly

but decent on sin

[rocky ruin]

ah yes 3min

[flat kiln]

Just read pins - is the only way to run exsang with sepsis by dropping CTTC?

[rocky ruin]

y

[gloomy knoll]

Dunno sin still can’t aoe and neither can outlaw sub has half a talent tree and is stuck with one dance because it’s gated behind dead talents, we lost almost all our utility talents because they compete with dps talents now sure the specs feel ok to play but they got a few glaring issues

[gusty mirage]

That’s not a gameplay issue for assassination

That’s a design issue that’s been there for ever

Blizzard doesn’t want multi dotting to be strong. Assassination lives off dotting

[gloomy knoll]

Sin not being able to aoe and feeling awful to play in aoe is partly a gameplay issue I’d say

But I get your point ye

[winged quail]

Nah this discord told me Sin isn't a dot spec btw

[gusty mirage]

The last time assassination did good aoe it was one azerite trait that buffed the shit out of Fok

[gloomy knoll]

Beyblade before sub beyblade

[gusty mirage]

Yep

[winged quail]

Dealing most of your AoE damage with FoK was shit gameplay tbh

[gusty mirage]

Extremely shit gameplay

But that’s just a fundamental flaw in the spec design

The trees didn’t do that esra

[gloomy knoll]

True

At least for sins side

[bright trail]

im breaking my fingers trying to AOE as sin when retpal smashing 2 buttons and outplays everything

[gloomy knoll]

But they could’ve fixed it

[winged quail]

But idk how they would ever make Sin good in AoE with the current design

[wind dune]

People keep acting like sub wasn't a troll spec until it got bandaid fixed in shadowlands by getting blackpowder for free. Sin just needs that same bandaid

[gloomy knoll]

Which is why I kind of lump it in

[gusty mirage]

And if anything sucks for sub is that there’s very little flexibility in their spec tree

Not the fact that they have 1 dance being the best build

[wind dune]

Not BP but something good

[gloomy knoll]

Sub was good many times before bp so that’s a weird take

[gusty mirage]

And the sub tree was arguably the worst out of our 3 specs

[gray crest]

Hey man, the rotten is usable now

[gloomy knoll]

Our left side has horrible gameplay issues and just kinda sucks we can’t take any utility without giving up dps

Sin got new talents that should’ve included abilities to aoe imo

[gusty mirage]

Now take that, and exacerbate it with the fact that our trees are pretty much the same as the first iterations that came out while everyone else got big changes to their trees

[winged quail]

AP was supposed to be our AoE/cleave bandaid

[gusty mirage]

Suddenly our trees are ass

When before they were pretty damn good

[gusty mirage]

Yeah… it’s uh… ap is…