Talking about DF. As Outlaw if you use cheap while in dance/subterfuge, you're trolling. Unless that cheap shot is going to save yourself/another from getting 1 shot by a cast, I think that's the only time it's really acceptable. Or if it's like a heal cast ig.
#assassination
ornate zodiac
near valley
Bruh if ur going to cheap shot as OL you'd use vanish
oak tangle
why would you be considering using it if not for that reason
near valley
But also I don't think any sane person cheap shots in pve content
oak sky
Its pretty unlikely you ever need it
spice surge
Never in raid, very rarely in certain m+ keys
oak sky
But like if i was in stealth and there was a mob casting and no kicks up and somehow i had no other stops
silk bane
But also I don't think any sane person cheap shots in pve content
I cheap shotted a haunting gaze a few times. y u do me bully 😦
oak sky
Its definitely omega rare
spice surge
Like temple or academy on scary fortified weeks you might stop some casts when your tank has run out of cds
oak sky
Especially with gouge
near valley
I cheap shotted a haunting gaze a few times. y u do me bully 😦
Dw I already knew u were insane
ornate zodiac
Bruh if ur going to cheap shot as OL you'd use vanish
If you're pugging 25's with no coms and people don't have CC for something and you're forced into cheap shotting to stop it, then yes you do. And you don't always have vanish as sometimes you need to use it to get back into your proc rotation.
near valley
silk bane
Dw I already knew u were insane
based af bestie
near valley
silk bane
near valley
If you're pugging 25's with no coms and people don't have CC for something and y...
My point is that you have 2-3 stops b4 ur considering a cheap shot tbh
3 if ur taking gouge ofc
jagged yoke
i really dunno how you guys have the space on your keyboard for all these skills
oak tangle
i dont
silk bane
ez gouge is r, focus gouge is shift r
near valley
Who says I have space kek
jagged yoke
is there any i can combine in a macro lol
fleet pagoda
gouge on r is meta
ornate zodiac
Yeah and pugging places like TJS is aids, and you can't trust anyone to do anything so you use literally all of your stops within 10-15 seconds
viscid spear
I put my shit on 7,8,9,0 buttons
Gross, clean your keyboard
silk bane
sap 0 blind -
viscid spear
silk bane
then shift for the focus version ez
oak tangle
i click blind, sap, and my defensives
near valley
<:a7x_eCaughtin4k:913069655827034132>
viscid spear
I am a clicker
glad holly
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
near valley
Clicking as a rogue is the sign of a true master
silk bane
<a:ApuTooSweaty:660646976932544532>
alrready made an OF for u
15 a month
code Fizz daddy for 15%off
silk bane
128
silk bane
strange python
Oh so they should expect buffs right? Wtf
silk bane
no tettles said its A tier
strange python
Thats super low for it
silk bane
strange python
no tettles said its A tier
Oh i see nvm my bad
burnt star
Ya but assa will have more uptime
silk bane
we got 20% shiv buff
burnt star
Then other melee
silk bane
huge buffs apparently
burnt star
So we will win
near valley
Gaps the dps loss
burnt star
At least 10k gap
desert tiger
Yo is there any place that gives an openings rotation on ST?
near valley
Blizz balance has the power of foresight
near valley
Thank god they caught that
desert tiger
ty
near valley
Tbf I like playing sin at times
Sometimes I just want to be able to change my Spotify playlist mid fight
Without dropping damage
oak tangle
you guys remember the anxiety feeling before a test where you didn't study... i got that because im swapping to spriest and still dont know how to play it
near valley
Completely out there question but how busted would having access to both DTB and Kingabane be?
drifting cloud
insanely
spice spire
There’s a reason they aren’t 
storm onyx
somber fractal
What's the interaction that causes it to be so giga?
you wouldnt be able to change you spotify playlist in combat if you had both
spice spire
What's the interaction that causes it to be so giga?
Every lethal poison proc makes the final hit punch harder.
So double the procs is exponential increase
near valley
Every lethal poison proc makes the final hit punch harder.
So double the procs i...
Ah gotcha. Thnx for the explanation bud
grizzled needle
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
balmy condor
Every lethal poison proc makes the final hit punch harder.
So double the procs i...
uhm, ackkeaulyallylly sir
spice spire
balmy condor
an exponential increase would imply that the stacks multiply the current tick damage of kingsbane, which would cause the stacks to multiply each other, but that isn't the case because the stacks modify the base damage, making the stack count a linear increase
gusty mirage
Every lethal poison proc makes the final hit punch harder.
So double the procs i...
ackshually
balmy condor
dtb would just double the stacks by 2
gusty mirage
imagine if my balls weren't in quake's dad's mouth
balmy condor
imagine if my balls weren't in quake's dad's mouth
imagine if you could write a your dad joke without needing 3 apostrophes
gusty mirage
english is a second language bigot
balmy condor
english is your job dumbass
plucky lion
Indiscriminate carnage should just be standard not at the bottom of the talent tree.
spice spire
english is your job dumbass
I wish you two would relieve the tension 
balmy condor
I wish you two would relieve the tension <:SMH:887994777595965472>
he would have to suck's my's ball's for that
spice surge
I wish you two would relieve the tension <:SMH:887994777595965472>
But youre quaking, shouldnt you interrupt their casts?
spice spire
The only thing quaking rn is Whispyr thinking about oxì
drifting cloud
mods shitposting again
balmy condor
mods shitposting again
I'll ban you for having a dissenting opinion sir this is a dictatorship
boreal valley
Which spec looks best next tier? Or is it still looking like all three are quite even?
balmy condor
Which spec looks best next tier? Or is it still looking like all three are quite...
destro lock
gloomy knoll
Warlock
drifting cloud
mods shitposting again (positive vibes)
balmy condor
mods shitposting again (positive vibes)
much better
boreal valley
Yea trust me I know
balmy condor
out of the rogue specs
balmy condor
outlaw is looking like the least shit
boreal valley
Yeah those ones
balmy condor
but like
boreal valley
Outlaw ST is so miserable to play
balmy condor
it's still shit
so
you're looking at like a pound of shit, or slightly less than a pound of shit
gusty mirage
hope you enjoy the gamba build
balmy condor
that's the correct answer tbh
boreal valley
hope you enjoy the gamba build
not a gamba build tier
gloomy knoll
Keep it gamba
gusty mirage
their 138k is gamba
boreal valley
yeah but idc about that specific sim
IDK, I'll prolly stay rogue for atro and just deal with it, was fun last tier
boreal valley
Outlaw ST is depressing to play though
gusty mirage
your jobs offer a 401k?
gusty mirage
open an IRA
balmy condor
I did
gusty mirage
and not the Ronkles kind of IRA
balmy condor
(I'm smarter than you)
my IRA has no money either though dw
we can share ramen together
gloomy knoll
I have an ira with 4k in it (I’m never going to retire)
gusty mirage
sell butthole pics for money
drifting cloud
and not the Ronkles kind of IRA
@stuck knoll thoughts
glad ferry
Man I'm a sub main and practicing the rotation for assass and I'm lost
gusty mirage
<@212144638117543947> thoughts
you ignored my question last night
gusty mirage
fuck you
drifting cloud
you ignored my question last night
which one sorry
gloomy knoll
Are you playing aoe cuz if then yes
gusty mirage
the meme about slovenian men vs women
spice surge
sell butthole pics for money
Onlyfans > being a loyer
balmy condor
I feel like this spec is the jankiest spec ive ever played
maintain rupture/gar, use shiv and er on cooldown, mutilate to 5, spam envenom
that's....
literally it
I guess use sbs charges on cooldown
gloomy knoll
I don’t like the er either brother
glad ferry
it's the same thing, except there's like 3 more buttons
Man 3 buttons is massive
balmy condor
think of gloomblade like envenom, but also like mutilate, and also like shiv
glad ferry
One of my biggest question is
balmy condor
and then think of gloomblade like deathmark
and also vanish
and just think of gloomblade
glad ferry
when do I vanish during rotation not opener and do I use it on Ambush 100% of the time or do I want to garrote sometimes?
glad ferry
vanish then deathmark or deathmark then vanish?
balmy condor
every 2 min it's vanish->gar->deathmark
I mean
you can do either
it doesn't matter
but for the sake of argument lets say before
drifting cloud
the meme about slovenian men vs women
probably, cant tell you I dont leave the house
balmy condor
because then every 4 minutes you vanish -> gar -> exsang -> deathmark
could also become enlightened and simply refuse to play exsang
like a true gigachad
and then literally nothing you press matters
just use things when they come up
very based
balmy condor
what, did you do double shiv or some cursed shit
drifting cloud
I just had the point in imp poisons past 5months
balmy condor
yeah
drifting cloud
or is that only a thing now?
balmy condor
that's what you're supposed to do
drifting cloud
on your link for 10.1 its not
drifting cloud
oh so its because of the buffs
balmy condor
buffs and tier
drifting cloud
well I simmed it on my gear was +300 !
balmy condor
!
idk
whack
imp poison good
you did good
no problems detected
I'm like your dying computers antivirus
nothing to see here
drifting cloud
would have been more funny if I played wrong talent for 5months
loud oyster
so until tier, run imp poison 2/2?
drifting cloud
no its just the non-exsang build
loud oyster
ah
glad ferry
Is my 2nd exsang supposed to line up with death mark?
drifting cloud
most of the time yes, but depends on kill timers
glad ferry
Then I'm doing something wrong.
glad ferry
ah I see
balmy condor
quik mafs
glad ferry
2 + 2 is 4
glad ferry
any reason why assassin is gonna be A tier next tier ?
balmy condor
because said individual is a clueless idiot
glad ferry
It was a dratnos tier list xd
spice spire
balmy condor
3 buffs
drifting cloud
I bet only 2 buffs would be enough!
balmy condor
but they're actually just full on clueless if they think it's A tier right now
timid haven
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue
glad ferry
but they're actually just full on clueless if they think it's A tier right now
They said every team is gonna have a sin rogue lmao
blazing jewel
chicken brain
balmy condor
dratnos in 9.3 saying that our tier bonus is 100% increase during burst
and it wasn't
pog
sour hare
I was curious why in the guide, Slimy Expulsion Boots (Mast/Vers reduces Haste) is recommended over Toxic Thorn Footwraps (Haste/Crit reduces Stam) when they both do the same damage and have same proc rate. It just seems to me the stats from the Thorn Footwraps is better.
drifting cloud
tettles saying 20% shiv buff is big
wait did he actually said that
balmy condor
neither one of them returning my DM's
because they don't want to handle the truth
pog
buoyant herald
those tier lists are entertainment to be fair
balmy condor
love tier lists
glad ferry
LOLLLLLLLL
balmy condor
more tier lists please
blazing jewel
!tierlist
glad ferry
aight this says enough i just thought i was bad
buoyant herald
but people don't listen to disclaimers, just skip to end
glad ferry
but
undone summit
Anyone has a link to the tettles video ?
glad ferry
nvm its jsut assassin thats not so great
sour hare
ah, gotcha. So the two embellishments recommended are Slimy Boots and toxic patch?
cursive dagger
looks like it
sour hare
If we're using Toxic Patch, wouldn't the Spore Colony Shoulderguards be the better choice for the other? It seems like it does more per minute than the Slimy Boots.
or when it triggers the immediate decay, does that not damage the enemy and just eats the procs?
sour hare
do they? The description sounds really good, but I know sometimes they work differently in practice
ah, gotcha
balmy condor
your first mistake was trusting tooltips in this game
rookie move
"it says it does the same damage"
balmy condor
the day a tooltip in wow says exactly what it does
near valley
Idk what your on about Whispyr
balmy condor
I will eat a shoe
oak sky
Better be happy spore shoulders arent bis
Less restrictive for tier
We up never been down
whole mason
I got it. Rogue class is actually promoted to buff class for DR. Like one Mage for int, damage no longer matters.
whole mason
Compared to ww for physical buff, rogue's ST is actually high enough for A.
whole mason
Lots of "it"s towards the truth
storm belfry
autumn frost
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
junior olive
how are yall performing in M+ ?
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
timid haven
What do u guiys think about the drogbar rocks trink?
violet jackal
how are yall performing in M+ ?
top damage overall unless I commit to being on interrupt and stun duty because of trust issues
storm belfry
how are yall performing in M+ ?
good good
shut owl
All rogue specs are A tier
All rogues are a tier.
yep, thats it. A tier. What that tier is, who can say? But its definitely one of them.
Ready to have to build my groups for all my io rating again because that tier is "not the one for pugging" 
uncut dragon
Building a dagger with my spark of shadowflame-any ideas on what secondary stats I should pick for both assassination and sub?
balmy condor
crit mast or crit vers depending on which spec you wanna lean into more
uncut dragon
I really prefer assassination but its tough in M+. Prob better to not look bad in raid
balmy condor
then crit mast I guess
finite nebula
hey @balmy condor can i dm you about your guides?
balmy condor
yeh
solemn trout
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
uncut dragon
Was looking at your sims whispyr is sophic devotion still best weapon enchant?
hoary remnant
Was looking at your sims whispyr is sophic devotion still best weapon enchant?
They are close in general.
balmy condor
Was looking at your sims whispyr is sophic devotion still best weapon enchant?
Yes
The only way you would play shadowflame is either to enable eranog ring without flaring cowl
Or to troll
uncut dragon
my raid leader has /gkick macro'd to a hotkey so I try not to troll
cold spoke
is it mouseover
balmy condor
They are close in general.
-0.4% per shadowflame enchant is not particularly close
uncut dragon
lord I hope not, I'd like to have him at least click my raid frame first
royal lantern
my raid leader has /gkick macro'd to a hotkey so I try not to troll
sounds like a great guild you want to part of
uncut dragon
I kid, I kid. that said my raid leader does probably know most of the classes as well as if not better than the people playing them. their breadth of knowledge regarding wow is pretty impressive.
timid haven
So what would should we craft for the toxic patch?
hollow river
So what would should we craft for the toxic patch?
timid haven
so any crafted piece i gather from that. its not specific
timid haven
ya thats what i was thnkn
balmy condor
Kinda whatever life bound thing you got
There’s a 450 belt from end boss that’s an upgrade
timid haven
i dont have any atm
balmy condor
But if you’re not getting that far, belt is fine too
timid haven
thx
whole mason
@balmy condor with current gear and tier, the buff gives some to m+?
whole mason
ty
thorn adder
2-3%
i need you on tuesday ned
tell me everything step by step, Play my character for me 🙂
balmy condor
only in m+
thorn adder
run droptimizer, maintain dots, spam everything on cooldown
so how do i convince my loot council to give me tier first 🙂
scenic jetty
u don't
blazing jewel
how much money do you have
thorn adder
balmy condor
our tier sucks bro
thorn adder
i know...
thorn adder
go t to meme thought the pain
blazing jewel
when you have to put on 2p/2p
balmy condor
depends how hard the buffs be hitting week 1/2
blazing jewel
filthy fotm player
blazing jewel
how did you manage that
balmy condor
welcome to rogue life, we live and die by the magic internet number go up
balmy condor
iv played nothing but BM hunter for 6 years
you like azor?
scenic jetty
i miss SOD sin
thorn adder
you like azor?
iv talked to him some about hunter but i like you guys more i think
seem more fun
balmy condor
acceptable response
thorn adder
how did you manage that
told my raid i was done with hunter, and tired of playing it. I asked what they wanted and they said a rogue would be nice since we didnt have one
so here i am
thorn adder
acceptable response
im a memer at heart so i feel like i fit in
balmy condor
@scenic jetty I don't miss sod sin
deft flicker
im a memer at heart so i feel like i fit in
blazing jewel
im a memer at heart so i feel like i fit in
calling us memers smh 
deft flicker
muffled Just a Memer sounds
thorn adder
calling us memers smh <:sitmadge:1098972930605588491>
i mean BM has been pretty bad since corruption outside of this tier, so you kinda have to meme. Feel like this is a fitting tier for rogue
blazing jewel
with all of our time on the bench this tier we are going to have some top tier memes in here
thorn adder
raid said they wouldnt bench me since i have atrophic
when they realize its not even that crazy
rocky ruin
raid said they wouldnt bench me since i have atrophic
They must love you
thorn adder
They must love you
i died 99% less than half our raid on hunter, so no shot i ever die on rogue
sweet zealot
Yea, I was the only rogue in my guild... Now I got a trial I gotta compete against :/
thorn adder
Yea, I was the only rogue in my guild... Now I got a trial I gotta compete again...
poop on em. you got this!
brazen lantern
iv played nothing but BM hunter for 6 years
Then your sub ran out and couldnt sim anymore
thorn adder
Then your sub ran out and couldnt sim anymore
im embracing the pain and just having fun playing sin
i might sim lower than my hunter last tier, but it is what it is
royal lantern
when they realize its not even that crazy
pro tip:never mention that
just let them belive atrohpic is a 2nd Devotion aura
thorn adder
pro tip:never mention that
dont worry i havent, they think its 20% DR right now
royal lantern
yeha, that Sounds like something non-rogues think
everything op cus its on rogue
thorn adder
wait till they see me playin sin in keys
royal lantern
i mean, assa in keys gets a bit overhated
and i dont even say that as a filthy assa 1trick
royal lantern
iron wire+IC is mad undervalued because nobody knows that its a thing
thorn adder
just sucks at low keys when shit dies fast af
royal lantern
if you have a tank that you reguarly play with, they will LOVE you for ironwire IC lol
its litearlly "everything gets grouped+tank external"
thorn adder
ill say the reason i stick with sin, is because no other spec feels better than when you play it right
aoe or ST
scenic thunder
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
slim hamlet
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
frigid cedar
Hi, is there anyone who would be kind enough to hop on the call and explain me how to play assa, trying to reroll from sub just incase it ends up being better for raid progression.
balmy condor
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue
balmy condor
use one of these
tacit otter
use one of these
some days ago you mentioned that dtb+ap could be a thing, will you elaborate more on that or will that happen when youre done checking for sim stuff?^^
balmy condor
some days ago you mentioned that dtb+ap could be a thing, will you elaborate mor...
brother I pinged you with some giga post
^^
tacit otter
wasnt that about IC+AP?
tacit otter
then im cooked nvm
subtle tundra
is assa good yet?!?
subtle tundra
sorry
blazing jewel
That means play ret
subtle tundra
If i may say operator, your chosen warframe suits you!
junior aurora
swallowing the coin is Outlaw
flipping any coin is just rolling a 2 sided dice
it was always outlaw
burnt latch
is assa good yet?!?
Not warlock but dratner and tettly put in A tier for raif so probably best melee
royal lantern
watching #subtlety brewing a build without secretech/shadowblades is 10/10
great burst spec btw
royal lantern
doesnt need a full rework like assa
tawny bloom
Did tettly also put boomie c tier again?
peak bobcat
Assas doesn't need a rework it just needs to be the best ST spec in the game and its fine
junior aurora
watching <#316923898501529600> brewing a build without secretech/shadowblades is...
shadowblades has been close to optional for a while now lol
clever sapphire
Assas doesn't need a rework it just needs to be the best ST spec in the game and...
wdym its almost the best, we got into A tier on a random tierlist for raid
royal lantern
shadowblades has been close to optional for a while now lol
ik
probably the worst "major cd" in the game lol
burnt latch
Im actually so hyped about the 20% shiv buff its gonna give assa insane burst on 25 sec cd very good for add swaps etc
junior aurora
is it tho
royal lantern
and it was 3min for HOW LONG 
junior aurora
actually not true
junior aurora
deathmark will do enough st damage to outweigh the shb aoe lol
blazing jewel
It smells like 128k in here 
peak bobcat
I'm so glad we replaced our useless st cd vendetta with great value vendetta!
royal lantern
It smells like 128k in here <:kekman:1069601603860037723>
131k is so much better when others pull almost 150k right 
man
blazing jewel
royal lantern
all 3 suck rn
blazing jewel
Okay but if our random bullshit proc damage high rolls we do 140k just get good
burnt latch
I'm so glad we replaced our useless st cd vendetta with great value vendetta!
Its funny that they changed vendetta have more depth to it but deathmark just str8 up has less depth than s3/4 vendetta with the snapshot
brazen lantern
all 3 suck rn
Wdym, tettles said assassination received very large buffs, like 20% on shiv!
royal lantern
almost 70dps
peak bobcat
royal lantern
when we do over 100k
peak bobcat
800 damage a hit
royal lantern
peak bobcat
LETS GOOOOOO
blazing jewel
📈
winter gale
Maybe we wont be buffed but all others get nerfed
pseudo hamlet
Blindside > Tiny Toxic Blade even after the buff I guess?
winter gale
Are some other classes really doing 150k?
pseudo hamlet
nvm seen the sims
whole mason
last time i heard lock can do 148k
clever sapphire
fury and enha are around 145k or so if i remember correctly
royal lantern
~132
winter gale
Sad
I would understand 1/3 spec to be lower/lowest
But all 3 to be underperforming
I guess they will tune stuff on week 1 or 2
clever sapphire
they will nerf rogue again because we do too much dmg on heroic week 🤣
i have the perfect plan, everyone plays with kingsbane, so blizzard sees how dogshit it is, and then they still ignore us on patch notes, but promise kingsbane buffs
surely we will be top ST spec 10.3
shrewd night
Did Tryan change name?
royal lantern
huh
shrewd night
Huh, he didnt. Weird having two people in assa with cooked memes 
royal lantern
hehe, cock memes
clever sapphire
i just want my kingsbane back, i miss seeing it in details 😭
pseudo hamlet
I guess they will tune stuff on week 1 or 2
Just wait for 10.2, they will surely fix the class!
marble hemlock
Can we keep the dooming to a minimum? Thanks.
peak bobcat
Guys no dooming my sin rogue sims 5k higher than my outlaw right now
odd dew
Is Neltharions trinket still amazing for us or is beacon better after the nerfs?
peak bobcat
Is Neltharions trinket still amazing for us or is beacon better after the nerfs?
Nelth was cooked before the nerfs
Now it’s really bad
deft flicker
Guys no dooming my sin rogue sims 5k higher than my outlaw right now
Try simming outlaw with a 2.6 attack speed weapon in main hand
clever sapphire
is there any item in the raid where i can gaslight my guild into giving it to me because its so insane even on hc? like diurna ring/grieftorch was
peak bobcat
Try simming outlaw with a 2.6 attack speed weapon in main hand
How does this matter at all
I have a one handed my boy
royal lantern
is there any item in the raid where i can gaslight my guild into giving it to me...
dispenser or beacon
peak bobcat
It would be like 45k dps less
clever sapphire
dispenser or beacon
deft flicker
Oh
clever sapphire
demonhunters got inspired by the one and only Whispyr and made their own spreadsheet
royal lantern
im somewhat convinced that whisp didnt invent the concept of spreadsheets
balmy condor
yah
marble hemlock
im somewhat convinced that whisp didnt invent the concept of spreadsheets
Aldriana did, obviously.
Whispyr doesn't even have an item named after him. Rip bozo
drifting cloud
yet
carmine dawn
NASA landed a man on the moon with some spreadsheets
royal lantern
jake in spec channel
carmine dawn
royal lantern
carmine dawn
Everyone knows assa is jsut OT 2
marble hemlock
Yes and no. What made assa the superior ot is that it doesn't have certain users
slim solstice
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
subtle tundra
Does Felhammer still have a NSFW channel
checking
tiny ember
wait are assa talents actually staying completely the same before and after tier
balmy condor
yes?
terse orchid
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
tiny ember
I don't know why I expect anything to change but yeah...
balmy condor
it's the same
marble hemlock
Psure 80% of the specs play exactly the same as before the patch
royal lantern
^
tiny ember
Idk why i kinda hoped something spicey would happen with assa a kingsbane or something
anything honestly
marble hemlock
Until whispyr births a new abomination of talents, things will remain the same
carmine dawn
Psure 80% of the specs play exactly the same as before the patch
KIR hater
tiny ember
I trust in his ability to create a monster
balmy condor
yo wtf
marble hemlock
KIR hater
I don't hate kir specifically, i just hate every outlaw spec. I don't play favorites
balmy condor
seli it's happening
marble hemlock
No
balmy condor
yes
normal kite
the unholy creation of kb+ap
marble hemlock
Don't
marble hemlock
Please don't
normal kite
oh no
blazing jewel
Whispyr delete the sim go to bed
marble hemlock
Hope you step on a Lego and trip face first into a bunch of Playmobil figures
balmy condor
Hope you step on a Lego and trip face first into a bunch of Playmobil figures
you were happy about AP
marble hemlock
Libel
balmy condor
Liberal*
marble hemlock
Defamation of character
marble hemlock
No
marble hemlock
give me a good reason seli
It has ap
balmy condor
based
balmy condor
of course
marble hemlock
Just like the dwarves dug too deep in moria, or i dug too deep into my nose when i was 7, you're playing a dangerous game with this... Thing.
balmy condor
I mean it's not really a double dip
AP increases bleed damage
more bleed = more nature
balmy condor
yeah of course
carmine dawn
Just like the dwarves dug too deep in moria, or i dug too deep into my nose when...
Self inflicted rupture
royal lantern
i mean, somewhat cool i gues?
marble hemlock
Replace ap with hemorrhage. Thanks.
carmine dawn
Will do better
marble hemlock
NO
balmy condor
seli this is fuego
marble hemlock
carmine dawn
Oh I’ve always wondered
What is the math that makes sbs bad to cast, but good to cast once every minute?
marble hemlock
we just need to believe
You're getting paid by big pharma for all the chemo we will need after you unveil this build
balmy condor
What is the math that makes sbs bad to cast, but good to cast once every minute?
no math involved, sbs is good to cast
carmine dawn
So why don’t you spam it
balmy condor
because why would you
carmine dawn
When it’s up
carmine dawn
Because it’s more dps
balmy condor
Because it’s more dps
it's not though
royal lantern
just use the charges up when fight is about to end, or use for adds
carmine dawn
Right so that’s my question
royal lantern
you use spike when you have no energy for mutilate
carmine dawn
If it’s not more dps
royal lantern
that happens quiet fast
balmy condor
@marble hemlock have you ever seen a more beautiful dungeonslice tree
marble hemlock
Yeah
jaunty phoenix
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
royal lantern
yes
shy nest
no IC gaming?
balmy condor
I mean this doesn't take iron wire
marble hemlock
Love playing a bleed boosting capstone together with all the poison talents
marble hemlock
This build makes my eyes bleed
balmy condor
and if you want iron wire, you can drop venom rush
:)
and if you want more aoe, you can take ttb
:)
grim jay
Looks like a damn fine build
royal lantern
whiso, stop cooking
balmy condor
someone who understands real art
deft flicker
Can you drop venom rush for ss??
marble hemlock
Whispyr opening up his discord smurfs to support this
balmy condor
thank you outlaw player
your opinion is of little relevance to me, but I will use you to piss off seli
which is a much more noble cause
grim jay
someone who understands real art
Art is in the eye of the beholder, but in this case you would need to be blind to not recognize all the beautiful swings in that happy tree
normal kite
This build makes my eyes bleed
Whispyr casted Exsanguinate
It was very effective
marble hemlock
Can't wait for people to actually play this, have 50% envenom uptime and do tank DPS cause it's awful to play
balmy condor
but it does save a point
balmy condor
Can't wait for people to actually play this, have 50% envenom uptime and do tank...
IC builds also have 50% envenom uptime btw
marble hemlock
You don't play ic on st
grim jay
Can't wait for people to actually play this, have 50% envenom uptime and do tank...
Hacha is playing rotten on sub the whole time
balmy condor
this is dungeonslice seli
marble hemlock
Oh
arctic current
Please keep cooking, I need a M+ build that doesn't suck at ST
balmy condor
warlock
grim jay
Please keep cooking, I need a M+ build that doesn't suck at ST
You could play demo
royal lantern
Please keep cooking, I need a M+ build that doesn't suck at ST
step1: dont play assa
balmy condor
that's what my gf tells me too
grim jay
arctic current
But I wanna be yellow 😦
balmy condor
storm belfry
royal lantern
oh look
marble hemlock
you need help
royal lantern
m+ andys going into ROGUE UTILITY arguments again
marble hemlock
anyway
balmy condor
would you like to help seli
marble hemlock
psure this build will suck compared to any IC build
grim jay
But I wanna be yellow 😦
Details has the option of changing the color of your bar
balmy condor
it's -2.5% in dslice
marble hemlock
okay and that happens how often? once per 2-3 iterations?
marble hemlock
idk the distribution of pulls, but when i last checked (granted,that was 2months ago) it was largely 3-6t
which is kinda prime territory for AP, obviously
but when you do smth like an azure vault, or in new season, brackenhide or nelth, you dont do baby pulls
and ic silence is still very good for grouping up packs, which is dps increase for entire grp
signal badger
Is the nature damage from ct going to tick as well if it’s spammed in aoe?
royal lantern
IC+Iron wire is so mad undervalued man
grouping everything+tank external every 45sec on a pull is not bad lol
shut owl
This is beautiful whispyr. Is exsang a hard req though?
balmy condor
as hard as it is in other builds
balmy condor
Is the nature damage from ct going to tick as well if it’s spammed in aoe?
the tier is just extra damage, spamming CT would give you the same damage, but 20% more because tier
terse orchid
<@210784027752398848> have you ever seen a more beautiful dungeonslice tree
I jokingly told my friend we might be pushed into some bs playstyle with AP. Don't you dare do this to us
shut owl
Oh, so much less once my box implodes the second I get a better swimming trinket?
balmy condor
🏊♂️
royal lantern
This is beautiful whispyr. Is exsang a hard req though?
dont play exsang, grab a 2nd point improved poison, do more dmg because you dont make micromanagment mistakes with exsang 
balmy condor
enjoy your swim
clever sapphire
I jokingly told my friend we might be pushed into some bs playstyle with AP. Don...
look at it that way, now you can play AP on raging weeks and not feel bad
shrewd night
marble hemlock
look at it that way, now you can play AP on raging weeks and not feel bad
i mean
youll still want to soothe
meaning youll hold shiv
shut owl
https://tenor.com/view/drowning-gif-12371356
Where'd you get this vid of my dad
terse orchid
look at it that way, now you can play AP on raging weeks and not feel bad
Because nothing feels better than having to hold on to your DPS for utility
marble hemlock
okay
shrewd night
Where'd you get this vid of my dad
Im not ur dad
maiden linden
Please give me hope this spec is competitive this tier..I don't wanna gear my unholy 
marble hemlock
youre still sitting on a charge each pack
clever sapphire
you dont hold on, you just hope that they either die fast enough that it doesnt matter, or they live long enough that you have shiv by the time its needed
marble hemlock
this wont be competitive
marble hemlock
same as ic assa isnt competitive
not in the sense that most people think of in terms of "competitive"
i was competitive with assa in first 3-4weeks of DF, didnt mean i couldnt have done better if i played sub
balmy condor
you're just a hater hater masterbater seli
marble hemlock
i mean i applaud your efforts, you know that
clever sapphire
i was competitive with assa in first 3-4weeks of DF, didnt mean i couldnt have d...
so you are the reason assa got nerfed, understood
marble hemlock
i just dont see how itll hold up in dungeons where you consistently go big
assa was very good in certain dungeons
azure vault probably the best one
but you also need a tank who is skilled enough to know how to chain like a god
shut owl
There were some thundering hero sin players. Just don't expect to be invited to pugs
marble hemlock
and there isnt a whole lot of those
shut owl
Love tanks that know more than w
shrewd night
There were some thundering hero sin players. Just don't expect to be invited to ...
If by some you mean "one", then yes
marble hemlock
lets not go down that road
carmine dawn
but you also need a tank who is skilled enough to know how to chain like a god
Every vengeance player this tier
You seen this shit?
onyx loom
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
storm belfry
There were some thundering hero sin players. Just don't expect to be invited to ...
Honestly don’t think you should have issues getting into pugs as sin. Outside of like much higher keys. I’ve not had a problem up to 24 this past season
marble hemlock
but ye idk, i still think assa is viable in highkeys, and not just viable but actually good. but you need a godtier tank, and theres like 5+ other specs that would still be better dps wise
storm belfry
Might be once in a blue moon someone comments on it
I’ve only had one person actually kick me when I joined and that was when I was gearing up LOL
clever sapphire
Honestly don’t think you should have issues getting into pugs as sin. Outside of...
i would say you could struggle in keys between 15-18, people there only want the S+ specs
storm belfry
Yeah well
Those ppl are saving you
From a shit time
And that’s when you just do your own key man
marble hemlock
why do your own key when you can apply for keys 4levels higher, not get invited due to bad score, blame spec tuning and then cry about it. not saying that thats anybody in here specifically, but thats the majority of the community
storm belfry
Yep
shut owl
I've been complained at/kicked many times in 20s. People at large enjoy shoving their head into feedbags with regards to "t h e m e t a"
arctic current
It feels like 95% of tanks have no clue what IC and ironwire does
storm belfry
Everytime I have told someone in the past about doing their own key they make another excuse
clever sapphire
tbh i dont think i ever got kicked for playing assa, but i got kicked twice from AA because i was specced into outlaw and not sub 
royal lantern
It feels like 95% of tanks have no clue what IC and ironwire does
95% of tanks have no clue what they are doing.
storm belfry
The key I did get kicked from while gearing was an AA tho. Iirc it was just a damn 13. This was months ago
shut owl
My guild gave up on our drunk 23aa XD
We did it every wrong way and said yeah let's go again, then got beat by router boss on 22
storm belfry
They invited an outlaw then he made a comment and they kicked me
shrewd night
This is why I have three different friendgroups I can run keys with. I never have to struggle with "why you non-meta spec" shit ever
storm belfry
marble hemlock
majority of issues that people encounter while playing m+ or trying to push score, have virtually nothing to do with class tuning, and are solely self-made problems due to not putting in the effort thats actually required to succeed at pushing m+
i.e. building a network of friends
storm belfry
majority of issues that people encounter while playing m+ or trying to push scor...
This
shut owl
Unbelievable
shrewd night
Haha, good joke Tryan
shut owl
Seli lies
shrewd night
...Oh wait
clever sapphire
xD
royal lantern
This is why I have three different friendgroups I can run keys with. I never hav...
what if you use personality A in friendgroup B
shrewd night
royal lantern
@clever sapphire are you a furry? important question
shut owl
The only folks in my social circles running keys think they are MDI at 2200, and I haven't gotten a single ping back from .io
Seli how do I social
storm belfry
I’ve just had ppl add me
marble hemlock
i also simply dont believe that the "got invited, they saw i play assa, kicked again" happens nearly as often as people claim. im 99% certain that its actually jhust "didnt get invited when i applied" moments, which have absolutely nothing to do with the spec you play, and everything to do with how the grpleader has to choose from 20+ applicants and obviously hes gonna take the one who looks the most promising. thats not a judgment on how good/bad your spec is.
storm belfry
And I get invited sometimes
clever sapphire
<@251394752996573185> are you a furry? important question
i play feral, does that count?
and have a vulpera enhancer
marble hemlock
The only folks in my social circles running keys think they are MDI at 2200, and...
download friendgroups addon. add people after runs you think were good. whisper them the next time you wanna play.
join m+ friends discord
play fotm
all viable choices
storm belfry
Yeah I mean I agree. I know they say everyone’s experience is different but I do a shit load of keys and it’s only happened to me one time
royal lantern
i also simply dont believe that the "got invited, they saw i play assa, kicked a...
i had it happen ONCE that somone said something about me playing assa, and it was just a "oh wow, never see that spec" and thats it
idk what people are doing that they get kicked for the "wrong" spec
storm belfry
And it was on a key level where it legit didn’t matter at all lmao
winged veldt
i also simply dont believe that the "got invited, they saw i play assa, kicked a...
Yea I have done quite a few pugs as assa when I wanna have a different type of fun. Not once was I kicked because I was assa ever
storm belfry
i had it happen ONCE that somone said something about me playing assa, and it wa...
Yeah I do get comments a lot like “oh assa? Okay” or “you’re the first assa I ran w all season”
brazen lantern
i also simply dont believe that the "got invited, they saw i play assa, kicked a...
I have had that happen as hunter , but like 1 out of 100 times
storm belfry
But never kicked or shamed on
marble hemlock
unless the grp is omega tryhard, theyll actually say "´´´´´´´po0ß
THANKS NOVA I WAS TYPING
shut owl
All the kicks for me are either prior to pull or 30 seconds in cuz some dumb dumb didn't notice till after locking and just want to go next
brazen lantern
Hi nova
marble hemlock
unless the grp is omega tryhard, theyll actually say "oh wow, spec xxx with such score, he must be good at what he does"
royal lantern
THANKS NOVA I WAS TYPING
brazen lantern
shut owl
Cat
winged veldt
Meow
marble hemlock
what people dont seem to understand, is that m+ score is a grind. you dont sign up to a key and gain score. you do it over the course of weeks if not months, get better at the game, and that will naturally improve your score.
buoyant field
Who invited a Feral druid to this server? xD
grim jay
Cats occupying keyboard, classic duo
Mine never does
royal lantern
and have a vulpera enhancer
@shrewd night you are right, he is starting to replace me wtf
brazen lantern
what people dont seem to understand, is that m+ score is a grind. you dont sign ...
And the 2 week system feeds into this so much imo
storm belfry
But seli I want my score right now
marble hemlock
took me 9+ months to build a network of friends in legion to play keys with. was a hard grind, but it paid off, and its still paying dividend today
storm belfry
My spec is holding me back
marble hemlock
And the 2 week system feeds into this so much imo
wdym?
storm belfry
🤡
marble hemlock
But seli I want my score right now
buy a boost
winged veldt
Lmao
storm belfry
winged veldt
Hahahahahahahaha
grim jay
took me 9+ months to build a network of friends in legion to play keys with. was...
Some just get lucky with the people in their guild tho
winged veldt
Got em
marble hemlock
whats lucky about having guild members that enjoy the game?
storm belfry
Speaking of boosts I’ve made quite a bit of gold recently 
shut owl
Could also be getting kicked for reasons beyond gameplay but i like to not think about those in my escaping from irl nonsense
brazen lantern
wdym?
With tyr/fort separate score it feels like you need to play every week or you are behind on score
marble hemlock
yeah
thats... good?
do you play to get score or do you play to actually get better at the game/m+?
maybe youre playing for the wrong reasons and its holding you back
winged veldt
I’m a 3k Andy. We have a few in guild at 3300 I’m sure I could learn from to improve too.
storm belfry
Same
marble hemlock
maybe if people stopped giving a shit about their score and just played for fun and the social aspects of it, theyd gain more score automatically
brazen lantern
I would rather just play every week cause i can/want, not cause i have to
storm belfry
I always play for fun
marble hemlock
so how does the 2week cycle affect you if you wanna play every week anyway?
clever sapphire
well i got to 2.7k got bored and stopped really playing m+. Did a 25 court yesterday with 10 min overtime, and i was wondering how people do these keys, second boss was freaking melting the group
marble hemlock
i dont understand
grim jay
whats lucky about having guild members that enjoy the game?
Well I heard from most people that they have negative experiences with that. The people I've seen before my current guild also mostly run keys with groups that arent in the guild. I think its not as popular tbf 😁
marble hemlock
i mean, its not like finding out how many people play m+ in a guild is a dark and hidden secret. you go to raider.io and you find out how many people in a guild play m+ before you apply
brazen lantern
maybe if people stopped giving a shit about their score and just played for fun ...
Problem is m+ is infinitely more fun when youre in the tier of players who actually play like that, but if youre looking to build a network, skipping 1 week you easely get idk 100 score behind and suddenly youre in a pool of players who dont wanna play like that
marble hemlock
thats such a cheap excuse
the entire point of building a network is that your score doesnt matter
brazen lantern
It happened to me every season idk
terse orchid
i also simply dont believe that the "got invited, they saw i play assa, kicked a...
The only class i can really see this happening with is survival hunters
storm belfry
Don’t think 100 score puts you that far behind
marble hemlock
i havent played since january, i still got asked for keys in the last few weeks
winged veldt
Nah m+ way more fun when people don’t flip shit over the little shit. When you deplete and hear “all good we go next” that’s the best tbh
brazen lantern
I play a lot early, having a blast, then skip 1-2 week of pushing and suddenly only have scoreobsessed ppl in pugs
shut owl
well i got to 2.7k got bored and stopped really playing m+. Did a 25 court yeste...
Aggressive use of defensives, and not having a healer say "I'm at 22k what more do you need"
marble hemlock
the entire point im trying to make, is that you want to move on from pugging sooner or later
shut owl
Actual words from our feral trying resto in a 22
burnt star
well i got to 2.7k got bored and stopped really playing m+. Did a 25 court yeste...
2nd boss is harder now than last week. We all have less self healing. And damage is a bit weird. Also healer need to heal more. So they run out of mana faster too
brazen lantern
why do you pug
Cause people stop playing, or join other groups etc
shut owl
Scaling of some things healing wise felt really weird with the 25% shift
marble hemlock
and then you come back and say "hi wanna play" and 2/5 may so no, but the rest says "sure"
whats the problem exactly?
burnt star
Ya. U need to burn her faster then she can burn u
clever sapphire
Aggressive use of defensives, and not having a healer say "I'm at 22k what more ...
oh he did 90k, heal was blasting, i was thinking when i should cloak because it seems like constant dmg more than dmg i can react to? dunno boss always just fell over on 20-21 so never thought about it
marble hemlock
maybe 4/5 say no. thats still 1 player you found
grim jay
Scaling of some things healing wise felt really weird with the 25% shift
Diurna was weird at first
marble hemlock
if your network isnt just 10 people
you still have no struggle finding a grp to play with
storm belfry
Scaling of some things healing wise felt really weird with the 25% shift
Eh it’s like a 2 key lvl diff roughly
marble hemlock
like i said. its a grind
storm belfry
Not that big
marble hemlock
my m+ friendslist is about 120 people
ofc most of them will be in grps already or busy
but the ones that arent are up to game
shut owl
I mean; it felt real bad on quaking moreso, where it felt more spikey that before
marble hemlock
maybe they dont wanna push score upgrades immediately, but even if they were, it wouldnt work anyway right
clever sapphire
my m+ friendslist is about 120 people
i have 5 
winged veldt
Brb adding seliathan now!
marble hemlock
people just want the quick fix to their score and as a result they party with terrible people and create their own problems
brazen lantern
Maybe i just got too comfortable as soon as i have 4 others we play back to back weeks
marble hemlock
ye
and then when you leave that grp you join others, cause word gets around
you wont have the same success, and that can be demotivating
i dont like pugging anymore cuz most tanks annoy me, because none of them are as good as fem and it makes me wanna cry
marble hemlock
MDI takes away too many good players 
clever sapphire
Play well in pugs and find good players to add to bnet
i need to get the second part down and then im all set for S2
brazen lantern
MDI takes away too many good players <:sad:1005073551600132096>
Its more fun than pushing tho imo
At least had tried 1 meme tournament for speedruns and when the route and pulls finally fit together its insane
At least i enjoyed it more than week 10 of pushing
marble hemlock
but ye idk, people are just lazy. i can empathize. i was lazy too in legion. i played up keys with people and then i was ditched because "sorry we want sub rogue" even though i was smoking most of them anyway.
so i was depressed for a while "nobody wants to play with me" until a good friend asked me "well, how often do you reach out to others to ask them if they wanna play" and i realized i didnt really do that, i was jus sitting on my ass waiting to get invited. obviously that didnt happen.
once i became more pro-active about it, and started adding people, i found a bunch of cool people to play with, and after a few more months, i was pushing #1 keys with my boy sebbe. was a lot of work, but the success in game and the friendships i built were 1000% worth it
clever sapphire
At least had tried 1 meme tournament for speedruns and when the route and pulls ...
why not do both? have a group of friends thats more for those 20s that do insanely big pulls where you can see big dps. And have a group with which you can try to pushyourselves to the limit.
Thats my plan atleast
brazen lantern
Nah you dont speedrun live
marble hemlock
you also have to take chances on people
in early bfa when our dk tank quit, we needed a new tank
so jay suggested this kinda unknown but decently high scored brewmaster. brew was kinda dogshit in s1 of bfa, but we said "sure, why not". that person was andybrew.
turns out the man was a baller
brazen lantern
but ye idk, people are just lazy. i can empathize. i was lazy too in legion. i p...
I used to be very proactive, but then kinda burnt out of it. Was tanking, so i was making the group, making route, calling kicks, stops, basicly doing everything than i just had enough 
i wanted to just play without having to do much else, so i guess reverse of yours
marble hemlock
yeah, thats fair. tbf, tanks have kind of a "rockstar" position in most m+ groups, cuz everybody always wants to play with a good tank
many of them develop an obnoxious ego as a result
the ones that dont, are absolute keepers
brazen lantern
If you look at it from that pov tho, if you do basicly everything and you wipe cause your mage who has 0 jobs outside of doing dmg, misses a kick
Thats very tilting
marble hemlock
but ye, being a "career" m+ player aint like raiding, and by career i mean someone who just plays m+ all year round.
you can just apply to a new guild and start blasting your first raid and stick with them for years, m+ doesnt work like that.
M+ groups fall apart regularly, or someone quits and you need to work another person into your grp, but the more sociable and likable you are, the easier it is to find groups consistently and be able to play the game without sitting in LFD or trying to find someone to play with for hours on end
but its a lot of work, itll have upsides and downsides. but at least, even if your score still sucks, you made a lot of friends along the way, and those dont reset every season.
royal lantern
but its a lot of work, itll have upsides and downsides. but at least, even if yo...
thats the most wholesome thing somone ever said about m+
brazen lantern
Seli, do you think depletion is good for the game?
marble hemlock
ofc
youll deplete the majority of your keys. people gotta get used to it
im guessing a majority of people didnt play when you could just leave a m+ key, and it wouldnt downgrade a keylevel, youd just not get loot at the end. it was the most degenerate pushing imaginable, and im really fucking glad they got rid of that
brazen lantern
I think it gates too much. People rather sit 2 hours in lfg to find someone overqualified than to just give a chance to someone who might as well be good enough
royal lantern
Seli, do you think depletion is good for the game?
if depletion would not be in the game, those wannabe pro gamers would burn themself even harder
brazen lantern
im guessing a majority of people didnt play when you could just leave a m+ key, ...
Thats when the key got depleted but same level
?
royal lantern
instead of accepting that they need to improve/play different/reached their limits
glacial arch
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
brazen lantern
if depletion would not be in the game, those wannabe pro gamers would burn thems...
But who cares about those
marble hemlock
people dont remember or werent around when meowchan was sitting in upper karazahn for 12 hours trying to go for a perfect run and insta resetting everytime smth didnt die according to the pre-planned splits
like
its beyond degen
royal lantern
But who cares about those
90% of the m+ playerbase ARE those people mate